Volusia County Council Meeting, February 20, 2024 
 
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SPEAKER: 
Welcome to the Volusia County Council meeting. The meeting will begin in 10 minutes. 
 
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SPEAKER: 
Welcome to the Volusia County Council meeting. The meeting will begin in five minutes. 
 
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SPEAKER: 
Welcome to the Volusia County Council meeting. The meeting will begin in two minutes. 
 
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JEFFREY S BROWER: 
It is 3:59 PM, if everybody can find a seat, I am going to try to get started at 4:00. 
 
(Music plays) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK. It is 4:01. At 4:01 PM we will call the February 20, 2024 Volusia County Council County meeting to order. Normally we would open with an invocation and then go to the Pledge of Allegiance but this is not a normal night, and Pastor Joshua D Owen of Spruce Creek Presbyterian Church called and he is not able to make it in tonight. In just a minute I'm going to ask you to stand and will have a moment of silence, unless Mark Watts wants to pray.  
 
I will say, if you're a member of the faith group that would like to participate in the invocation, you are welcome to do that, just send an email to kgreen@volusia.org, this is Karissa Green to my left, your right, and she will give you the set up to do that. 
 
With that, we will stand for a moment of silence and then go right into the Pledge of Allegiance. 
 
(Pledge of Allegiance) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Karissa, will you call the roll? 
 
(Roll Call) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
We do have a full house, quorum and we will begin. We will begin with public participation and then we do have a few. I will call you in the order they have been given to me, and when I do, just come to the podium. The podium, there is a button on the left that will allow it to go up and down we really want you to be able to speak into the microphone so the people at home listening in can hear you and we can all hear you. 
 
You will have three minutes to talk about your issue. There is a timer on the screen above me and I believe it is there now, and also on your monitor there so please stick to three minutes. We have a few people that would like to talk, actually. I will let you know when the three minutes is up. 
 
First we have Raymond (unknown name). Nobody ever wants to go first. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Raymond (unknown name), Ormond Beach. We have been told that actions speak louder than words. The conduct of five members on this counselor shouted disdain for those of us who made presentations about the moratorium. Allow me to tell you who we, the people, who you refer to as these people, at one meeting are. 
 
Those who spoke here and Ormond Beach included PhD a chemical engineer who is in charge of a fuel terminal, a professional pilot, a judge, a mayor, city legislators, a member of the Chambers of commerce, nurses, business leaders, at least one school principal, combat veterans, people with advanced degrees, and numerous diligent people who did hours of research. I have a PhD, and I told social policy at the graduate level at Fordham University. 
 
Yet, during the meeting, councilmembers instead listen to us were receiving text messages, reading written messages, showing three body languages and total disinterest in what we are saying and they were perfectly out of the chamber. Three of you, got up and left the chamber as Mayor Partington walked to the podium was beyond belief. 
 
A similar number of you were out of the chamber when the pilot spoke. An excuse of, "But, we can hear what is happening when we are out of the chamber" is laughable. How are we was to believe that you paid more attention then when you are here? You showed similar disregard for people who have spoken about flooding and property violations.  
 
The only people you paid attention to was a lawyer from Belvidere. It felt as if it were at a trial, where neither the judge or lawyers care to listen to the evidence. To be told that we are full of fear, and to have one of you even say in the meeting that our concerns were all fable and fear is highly insulting. Even Judge Craig, at the hearing about the moratorium said  that we had valid safety concerns, that one of you, million dollar homes across the street from a bay is a ridiculous argument. Move the terminal to the other side of the bay and see what the other people say.  
 
It's always easier to say that when you're living next to fuel terminal next to a military is fine doesn't mean you will live next one out. Regardless, move forward. Salmon the chemical engineers, the health professionals, the heads of the fire department that sent letters. For God sakes, do what people...  
 
(bell rings) 
 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Raymond, your time is up. Patricia Franzen? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Good afternoon, Patricia Franzen, Ormond Beach. Two weeks ago I left the chamber filled with fear, disappointment and disgust. I was and still and feel from that of fuel terminal being built 1/4 of a mile from my home.  
 
My new fear is you. After attending meetings for seven-month I have observed the way in which you govern and it is not good at all. I'm more than dissipating with the 5 to 2 vote against the moratorium, but that is your vote and I continue to speak out against the fuel terminal. Your behavior has been disgusting. At one meeting a council member accused the chair as pandering to these people. 
 
Another time, councilmember said, "Why do we have to keep talking about this? If they have questions, they can email us." I have seen you get up and leave the chamber, when Volusia County residents are speaking. You sit there, eating, drinking coffee, talking, and laughing. At the last meeting three of you at the same time were not in the chamber. 
 
All of this occurs while concerned citizens are asking for your help. If a high school student Council behaved this way, they would be kicked out, and suspended. I did not see the moratorium as a silver bullet. I knew that it would be a pause, a positive take a good look at all heavy industrial in Volusia County. 
 
Myself and others have expressed our fears, by presenting facts, about health, safety, and laws. These facts came from pilots, scientists, judges and nurses. We were not sharing fables, you do not believe that a fuel terminal will affect property values or home sales. You think it's another fable. Prove me wrong. Buy my house, the day I move out, put it up for sale. 
 
You were elected to serve the people of Volusia County, that means listening, responding, and most importantly, helping others. Meeting after meeting I have seen farmers, homeowners and small business owners come. 
 
... You have a wonderful opportunity to help others, this doesn't mean that everyone gets exactly what they want, but at least reach out, and show that you care. Show the people of Volusia County respect. Thank you. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I am Sharon (unknown name) from Port Orange, and I am the Executive Director of Volusia County recovery alliance, I'm here to raise awareness of the dangers in our community on fentanyl and let everybody know that we do have plenty of Narcan in our facility, that can help save a life. 
 
Since 2019, WC recovery alliance has operated as a 501C3 recovery organization, put in place to serve the community to help people get off of drugs and stay off of drugs. We also help families help their families and it is really has been a wonderful opportunity to really make a difference here. 
 
Fentanyl remains at large at the community. Not only is there fentanyl in the streets but there is no other drugs including (unknown name) which does not respond to Narcan. We still want everybody to have Narcan. It should be part of every single person's first-aid kit. It truly can save a life.  
 
It is a non-toxic drug which reverses overdose by kicking the opioid off the opioid receptor in the brain, and it is really a safe drug. In the time that we have been giving out Narcan, we have given out almost 17,000 Narcan kits, with reports of 196 lives saved from the Narcan that we have given out.  
 
We hope to be able to continue the process by giving out as much Narcan as possible. We know that overdose deaths are down by about 20%, and I really feel strongly that a lot of it has to do with the work that me and my staff have done. On the street, as well as through organizations, that are willing to listen to our trainings and I am very proud to say that I am a person in long-term recovery and I have staff that are all in long-term recovery including a young man it was Narcanned 18 times and has three years of recovery. He is a dad, he runs the Dad program. We are really proud to say that recovery is possible and can be expected in Volusia County. 
 
(Applause) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
W Jean Bailey.  
 
SPEAKER: 
Good afternoon. My name is Jean Bailey and I have come to the meeting today to request permission to install free Narcan dispensers in the Volusia County area. My son, Bradley Steven Bailey died of a Meth induced heart attack at Dauphin Park, forever 38.  
 
If there had been a free Narcan dispensers in the area he could administer himself, the person who found them who could have administered, it was 10 minutes of him lying there and then it took a few minutes for the officers to get there. Had there been a Narcan dispenser in the meeting area he would have lived. 
 
Many of the community feel free Narcan vending machines would be beneficial to help overdose in the county. Free Narcan vending machines are the latest tool for fighting overdoses. These machines distribute lifesaving supplies. Narcan nasal spray. Some states also have included fentanyl testing strips in theirs, and as of now I personally purchased two snack vending machines, repurpose, and modified them into free Narcan dispensers. I have purchased the manual machine so they do not require electric to function.  
 
I have been communicating with (unknown name) at the Volusia County recovery Alliance who has been committing to fill them for free. We will put brochures and postcards from Volusia County recovery alliance and how to obtain. I have met with chief (unknown name), Jennifer (unknown name), deputy chief of police and Capt. (unknown name) of Daytona Police Department. I shared my mission to install free Narcan dispensers in the Daytona Beach area. These vending machines can help in harm reduction. 
 
We discussed the high overdose areas in Daytona Beach, they shared their concerns and suggestions. They suggested I speak with Volusia County old boy task force and I spoke with Sgt. (unknown name) of the East narcotic task force. He got the vending machines were a good idea. They would be on board with the free Narcan dispensers. 
 
I also volunteer at the bridge, the homeless shelter, I am a barber and cut hair there and I'm also member of our mothers villages, a nonprofit that is bringing awareness to the many young people that are being killed by drugs, violence, and guns. 
 
All I am requesting is that we installed these narcan dispensers in the Volusia County area. I have pictures of where I would like them to be. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you. Excellent report.  
 
(Applause) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
John Nicholson? 
 
SPEAKER: 
John Nicholson, Daytona Beach side. It sounds a good idea but the question is, where do you put it? We have done things in the past, where in Daytona Beach do you want to have a drug center? Where people are overdosing and shooting up drugs? Selling drugs. Where would you want it? I live on the beach side. 
 
You wanted in front of the Hilton? Where do we want to have it? So please, do not put it where it is needed. You are going to end up hurting the businesses around it. 
 
Secondly, on the issue you voted on last week. You guys, I don't know whether you don't communicate well or the public does not listen well. I remember the woman that got up and said "none of you oppose the fuel dump." When I look at this I'm like, he said it, he said it, he said it. 
 
Six of you made a comment against it. One just said "be cautious." Watch what you say, because there could be a lawsuit. But people are not hearing that. I'm asking you to be very specific, because Don is very specific. It has been said. You are not dropping these issues. 
 
I'm asking you to lineup your opposition. The railroad tracks would be a big one. The traffic would be a big one. The kids would be a big one. Is that road to have that many trucks? It's not. 
 
There are many valid issues. And I was surprised at the 5-2 vote, but when I look at it I was not. There are reasons why you voted, but I really did not hear your reasons. And if I listen and do not hear, I know the public does not hear it. So we have to be more specific on why you are voting against it. They just think you are big-money people. And I know that is not the case. 
 
Also, I'm asking you, I live on Beachside, big event that we have, we have nine big events every year, over 150,000 people. Bike week is up next weekend. There's always a problem at the intersection of the Peninsula and Main Street. Main Street is a county road. I'm asking you to redesign and put turn lanes. 
 
The street is 9 feet wide lanes, and then you go into Peninsula and they go into 15 foot wide lanes. You don't need 15 foot wide lanes. You could put 512 foot lanes in that intersection. 
 
Secondly, when is the memorial Plaza going to start? The one by the bridge? People have been asking me. It has been sitting for a year now with the wall. That would be of interest. 
 
Last meeting that I missed at the state of the union, the no driving on the beach, I would oppose putting driving back on that beach. Is the city of Daytona Beach. The development there. They refused to give funds and it died. 
 
 
(Bell rings) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you. Connie Colby? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Good morning, Connie Colby. Moving forward with the Belvedere. Regarding the pre-application and application process, pre-application intake was on May 13 of 2022 and there were various steps that had to go through for that process. 
 
It clearly states the project was to be a bulk fuel storage distribution terminal, and it also lists storage of jet fuel, which was not on the EPA permit. Fuel was to be delivered and stored before delivery to gas stations and other commercial users in the surrounding markets. 
 
They referred to TRS, DRC, and environment will review, land development review and current planning review. If these were all done, are there any reports? 
 
In that same pre-application, there were two subjects that were not checked off. One was for city commission, and one was for fire safety. Whether they needed to be done or not, I don't know, but… 
 
As we await a new application from belvedere, things to contemplate. The fact that nowhere in the code is there reference to a storage or boat fuel or boat fuel storage terminals. Section 72 – 172 addresses this. If use of a structure is not expressly permitted in any classification, the enforcement official shall not permit such use of the structure in the classification unless it is substantially similar to use or structure otherwise permitted. 
 
I will also suggest I hope all of you have read Judge Joseph Wells' letter. It is long, but he made some very valid points. The other part I would recommend, the airport protection overlay zone clearly marks this area is 012 a which specifically prohibits the storage of explosives. 
 
Lastly, if and when another site plan is presented, who will inform local unit governments who have standing to raise objections in a timely manner? Thank you. 
 
(Applause) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you. Michelle (unknown name)? 
 
SPEAKER: 
How are all of you doing today? I know you have missed me. I have been taking time off for myself because it had to see doctors in Alabama because no doctor will see me in my surrounding areas. 
 
If anyone that has not heard my story, I have been injured by Pfizer. I was sick 40 minutes after I took the second vaccine, I have chronic inflammation, demylination, polyneuropathy, tremors, heart palpitations, micro clotting and more. Along with vascular issues. I've had to see a cardiologist because I have cardio issues. 
 
If you can hear the way that I am breathing right now. Each one of you, I have contacted in the past and each one of you gave me an email and each time I've been told to go see this senator or that senator, which I have paperwork because I have been sick. I will be delivering to them. 
 
I know is been on Governor to Santos' roundtable and there was others. I know one of them reached out to one of you and what if you made the suggestion since our vaccine injuries are a financial burden, you won't see us on the news or social media because they don't want you to know about us. 
 
Nobody wants you to know about us. And I am here to do that. Because there is chronic illness, disabilities and death. Our government and my own county, including the hospital that I worked at, that just recently let me go and take my insurance away that cost $15,000 a month for me to get my IV IG infusions to keep me alive. 
 
But nobody cares. I'm the only one that cares about everyone. I care about future generations. But when somebody sits there and tells another person that has been on Governor DeSantis and Volusia County that they can go and get food stamps, that is how you want to help us? You don't care that we are losing our houses, our cars, our life. 
 
I have people that are losing their life. Did you hear that? Because they are in heart failure. Why? Because there is cardio issues. People are having neurological issues, stillbirths, sterility. (Laughs) There's so many things! Cancer. Stage IV cancer right away. 
 
Do any of you listen to us? It just takes one person. One person to do the right thing. And to call your senators to let them know you're not going to stand up for this. Each one of you should be thinking about how you can help your county more. 
 
If I'm living on the street, or anyone of you going to help me? Anyone of you? Are any of you going to help me? You won't even know if I die! I am seven generations of Volusia County. Who is going to help? Hospitals are not. Not one of you. 
 
All I'm asking is for you guys to do the right thing and to tell us that to be on food stamps or what have you, we deserve better because we had lives. And we want more. We want you to do more. Because our government let us down. 
 
(Bell rings) 
 
(Applause) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Sheila Lind. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Good evening. How are you all? Sheila Lind. Ormond Beach. I'm speaking about the Belvedere terminals. This whole process has been poisoned from the beginning. That is what Mr Santiago said. 
 
And I believe that to be true. Truth. That is what I'm seeking. Michael Hinson wrote on his pre-application comments "Belvedere is looking to develop a rail freight terminal for distribution of oil, fuel and propane and a railyard is permitted use in I2 zoning." 
 
Coded ordinance section 72 – 172 interpretations of uses "if a use or structure is not expressly permitted in any classification, the enforcement officials should not permit such use or structure in the classification unless it is substantially similar to a use or structure otherwise permitted in the classification." 
 
Councilman, do the words "rail freight terminal" or "railyard" and substantially similar to "bulk fuel storage?" It is but the question that I would ask did the enforcement official enforce the code of ordinance and stop many believing it in Belvidere's favor? 
 
Ray Robertson, who represent Volusia County management commission and Belvidere be removed for conflict of interest. It is time to stop making excuses about tax revenue, property rights and the state law Belvidere is trying to pass to justify your actions. Thank you for your time. 
 
(Applause) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK, thank you all who participated. That takes us to item 1, our consent agenda. And I'm going to pull just for a comment from the County manager or his staff item K. Is there anyone else who wants to pull an item for comment or vote? OK. 
 
SPEAKER: 
C. Charlie. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
comment or vote? 
 
TROY KENT: 
I will move to present the agenda as presented. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Motion to approve. Is there a second? Second by Matt Reinhart to approve the consent agenda as laid out. Any other discussion? All in favor say "aye." Any opposed? Consent to agenda is passed 7-0. You want to start with item C, Don? 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
Sure. (audio issues) 
 
We talked earlier today. I think there was some unique situation with the Dickerson Heritage library that somehow was flooded and there was a need to get furniture in sooner than later, is that right? 
 
BRAD BURBAUGH: 
Yes sir. It was flooded during Ian. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
I think we talked about the price of some of these items. Are you saying in the future we can (audio issues) more towards local suppliers? 
 
BRAD BURBAUGH: 
We certainly could, but one of the strategies we had in library services is standardization across the library. So would still be looking at these large companies that provide significant discount on the agreements that we are using. So 30%, one of the companies offered as a discount for using the contract and 44%. 
 
When we go out, the individual, the library interiors of Florida, looks for those companies that provide the deepest discounts for us.  
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
OK. I will just leave it at that. I was little bit concerned about the pricing that we are paying, but I guess that is kind of a necessary evil to get this benefit.  
 
BRAD BURBAUGH: 
To understand that we are buying commercial furniture, and so, number one, the fabrics that we buy are selected to last significant amount of years. Actually, the way the fabric is woven can prevent bedbugs, that is one of the things that we look at. There is advanced materials in terms of powder coating. We are looking at life expectancy for the return on investment. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
That explains the higher pricing then residential stuff. 
 
BRAD BURBAUGH: 
Yes, sir. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
That is all. I was taken aback by some of the prices, but I'm going to go along with it. I want to hear that and let everyone else know why we are paying what we are paying for these items, thanks, appreciative. That's it. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Think you, Don. Before I get to K, I just want to mention, you don't have to come up, Jonathan, but item J, Jonathan Edwards and an internal audit community assistance, drug and mental health and found no improprieties, it was good work, thank you very much. 
 
I will turn to item K over to the county manager to discuss the collective bargaining agreement. 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think we have some of the team, here comes the director Joe DeMore, and our director Dana Paige-Pender, and some members of the union leadership, not Harrison, and his team are here as well. 
 
I would like to say kudos to the team, they worked real hard. It was a long process, but I think it has borne very good fruit and we are committed to continue. We know we have openings. We know we have a ways to go. The team is committed to make sure that we can fill those positions and I think this is a step in the right direction. It does include the ability for us to give some experience pay to people from other area. It does increase the correctional officers base pay, minimum of a dollar 75 per hour, two dollars an hour for Senior corrections, and there is additions to that. 
 
That is for this particular year we are in. And then they have agreed to take the general pay increase of county employees for this upcoming year. And also, as we look forward, it does give a modest guarantee in later years, depending on what the Council chooses to do with the tax rate. 
 
Again, I am proud of everybody. They worked very hard. I asked today that the Council, and I appreciate you accepting the contract. Any words you like to say, Mr. Harrison 
 
SPEAKER: 
I'm here to say to thank you to the County Council. We are hopeful that this will keep the division moving forward in a positive manner. I would like to challenge the council to keep an eye on the surrounding corrections agency in Florida, to see how we can stay competitive for the other agencies. We need to continue to make progress within the Volusia County divisions of correction to increase current staffing levels, increase wages, and benefit packages.  
 
I want Volusia County to be safe and secure place to work. I want people to make this their career choice and stay in Volusia County. In closing I want to thank you for approving this contract, and continue to work with us to make Volusia County a safe place to work. 
 
SPEAKER: 
This is a big step in the right direction, getting this accomplished. I cannot think the team from the county enough, Jordan, Suzanne, Mark, Maranda, Dana, and legal on this along with Matt and his team on that side. We did a good job getting this done, and I am very excited to see where this takes us with staffing and getting things squared away at the facilities. Thanks. Council, as well, thanks.  
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Is that it? Before Matt has some words for you, there is a surprise. This was not a close vote. Nobody has shared – would anybody like to share with the boat was? 
 
SPEAKER: 
97 to 6.

 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Yes. That is pretty significant. Matt Reinhart? 
 
MATT REINHART: 
Thank you, Chair. Nobody is a bigger advocate, and I think you know that, and I like what you said with respect to challenging us to keep an eye on other counties and what they're doing to stay competitive. We often have comments that different venues where we talk about our colleges and what not where we want to see individuals walk across the stage, get the diploma and continue to work in Volusia County. The same holds true for law enforcement, and corrections. 
 
This has been something that has been very near and dear to my heart from the get-go. Oftentimes, whether it be late in the hour, like today's meeting at 4 o'clock, we will have council comments there has times where it's been three the morning oftentimes you do not hear the meeting. Every single meeting I've been saying something about it and as everybody else's and saying the same thing. We want to see you succeed. 
 
For 30 years of experience, it is not an easy job, I did it. I can attest with these meta-ladies had to be put up with. I am glad were able to make this an you are in the right direction. Let me correct that, I know you are in the right direction. We will get more people and make the conditions better, and safer. Don't ever stop reaching out and letting me know. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Santiago? 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I want to act as a witness, he does it every meeting. In case anybody needs someone to concur on that. 
 
On a more important note, thank you for what you've done. It has been a tough one, thank you for the team on both sides. I want to see my commitment to Volusia County I would like to thrive for you to be the top agency in the state. Doesn't always mean you are going to be the top paid, doesn't necessarily correlate to that, that can be it, too, but working together, my individual goal as a councilmember to make you the number one agency in your field in the state, so thank you for your hard work. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Vice chair Ken. 
 
TROY KENT: 
Thank you, Chairman. Just to tag on what was said, I think one of the great takeaways from this is that you all spoke, and your members spoke, and we listened. It took some time, because that is what happens with negotiations. I am proud of the work that this council did and the give-and-take and discussions because it is something that we need to get better at. And in my opinion, we are getting better and making a step in the right direction. So, have a good afternoon. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK. Thank you all very much. Congratulations. 
 
And that takes us to the other end of the scale, item 2, retirement of Earl Farmer. Benjamin Bartlett, are you going to – 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
He was ready and ready to come down. It is your birthday, right? 
 
BENJAMIN BARTLETT: 
Not today. Mr Chair, counsel numbers, Benjamin Bartlett, public works director. Today in place to recognize Mr. Earl Farmer who is standing here with his retirement from Volusia County water resources and utilities division. At the time of retirement, December 31, a month and 1/2 ago or so, he was the longest tenured employee in our utilities division. 
 
Earl began his career as a trade worker in 1989, and from the very beginning his supervisors recognized him for his work ethic and dependability, even writing one of the evaluations that his work attitude and leadership should be a model for all personnel. 
 
From the beginning he worked to increase his skills, knowledge, and experience in advance through the ranks from trades worker to foreman and supervisor, and eventually settling into a senior utilities engineering inspector for the past 15 years.  
 
I'm going to go off script and say, in my time in public works, there is not a more valuable employee than an inspector. He is out there on the front lines, looking at all of the infrastructure, and in his case, utilities in protector that is buried, and making sure the stuff we inherit and have to maintain is put in as it is supposed to be, and is not going to cause us any problems in the future. To have somebody with his experience, advanced level, and out there on the frontlines looking out for the county is an invaluable resource. 
 
Earl also played a key role in hurricane preparedness, post event recovers and his knowledge was invaluable. I've been out in the middle the night on water main breaks, and you always have that one utilities guy that knows exactly where everything is. We have everything mapped in the GIS system but Earl can go there and tell you that we need to close that valve over there. He knew the whole system like the back of his hand. That is a huge resource and his shoes are going to be tough to fill. 
 
Another admirable quality of early is while employed with the county, he simultaneously observed in our Army National Guard for 25 years, retiring as a first sergeant with dedicated service to his country. 
 
Now that he is retired, he is under new management, particularly his wife Gail, his wife of 38 years, and I am sure she has a honey do list pretty long for him to take care of. He also three daughters, one son, two grandsons and one granddaughter. Earl and I were talking but this earlier up in my office, him and I share a common hobby, he is into Chevy cars, he has two older Chevelles, 1967 and 1972. I'm a car guy myself, I am jealous he has time to work on the automobiles. 
 
Throughout his career, Earl has demonstrated a solid work ethic and history of dependability and dedication. We thank him for his years of public service to Volusia County, as well as to our nation in the armed services. We wish him the best in all future personal endeavors. 
 
(Applause) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
We are not quite on you. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I would like to hop in quick. I have known Earl a long time, I have been 25 years, and he was here when I got here. I have known him personally as well, our sons were roommates in the football team. We have known each other a long time. Couldn't ask for a greater person – knows where everything is, super dependable, beautiful family, and just a real, great human being. We are really going to miss you. Please have fun and please go easy on him. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Director Bartlett, does somebody have Mr. Farmer's number on speed dial?  
 
BENJAMIN BARTLETT:  
Absolutely. Allen, Michael does. Thank you for your service. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Stand in front of the County Council, and I will take your picture. I am going to go back a couple, let's get this group centered. Sorry about that. This way. Take a step to your left. Alright, this is good. Just a minute… One more. All done. Thank you. 
 
(Applause) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
… Doesn't say so… We don't hold a vote on that, right? OK. OK, that brings us to item 3. One retires, another one gets promoted. Confirmation of appointment of Lou Paris to the position of division director, economic development. 
 
CYRUS CALLUM: 
Good afternoon Mr. Chair, Cyrus Callum. It is with great pleasure today I bring to you for your confirmation Mr Lou Paris. I have to tell you, Mr Paris and I have been working together, I had the fortunate opportunity to have him serve as one of our Q speakers and he is a staunch advocate for entrepreneurship. 
 
And his records will show and his credentials, the impact he has had in that arena throughout Volusia County. But I'm going to yield the County manager Mr. Recktenwald for some words. 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
We bring before you today for your confirmation Lou Paris who comes to us with a very stellar and diverse background and workforce development, economic development, he definitely had a focus on entrepreneurship. 
 
He was an operations director, the consultant firm specializing in attracting international construction investors to Florida and also was the director of program at Stenson University and worked as a business develop and and marketing manager for Career Source. 
 
He has won many awards. Financial grants. Secured hundreds of thousands of dollars in investment capital for other entities. He has filed seven provisional patents, owns two US trademarks, and is a published author. 
 
Again, he has a slew of awards, including ambassador of the year award by Volusia County business incubator, Stetson University innovator of the year award, he was honored by the 40 under 40 for the Daytona Beach news Journal. Founding member of Daytona Beach. An founding organizer of 1 million cups Daytona Beach chapter. 
 
He is also serving on the advisory board, he did with Volusia County, Business Incubator, University of Central Florida. I bring him forth. He's got a lot of knowledge of what we do. He brings some unique skill sets that we have not had some very excited to work with him. I bring them forth for your confirmation. 
 
LOU PARIS: 
Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
You can say anything. We haven't voted to approve this yet so be careful. 
 
LOU PARIS: 
I am very grateful for this opportunity. I've lived in Volusia County since 2006. I lived and worked in six different countries and I picked Volusia County to live the rest of my life. I brag about the fact that I can say I have been able to see it all, to see the world and pick this location as the place where I want to spend the rest of my life. So am very grateful for this opportunity and very excited and looking forward to making a change in the community. 
 
I always say that one of my goals, I have my 13-year-old son here, I'm looking forward to a day where he goes off to college and he actually returns back because, to Volusia County, because there are plenty of opportunities to live and work and prosper. 
 
So I invested in this for that one purpose. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you very much. Couldn't agree more. David Santiago. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I would like to speak maybe after the confirmation? 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK. Jake, you want to wait until after the vote? 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Please. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK. Do I have a motion to approve the confirmation of appointment? 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Approve. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
Second. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Approved by Jake Johansson and second by Matt Reinhart. Any discussion? All in favor? Any opposed? And you are confirmed 7-0. Congratulations and welcome again. 
 
(Applause) 
 
LOU PARIS: 
Thank you. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Welcome aboard. Excited to see what you can do with us here in the county. If you have watched over the past 12 months, I think it is safe to say this County Council is very much one of the big priorities is businesses, small businesses, and just in general how to make businesses more successful and want to come to Volusia. 
 
That being said, wanted to encourage you through your proper channels that we are not in the front lines every day. It is you all the front lines. So I would encourage, as individual council member, anything my colleagues probably would as well, share with us what is not working. Tell us what you need in order to make Volusia successful. 
 
And certainly, this counsel will react to that accordingly. But encourage you, I think this counsel would be welcoming of new ideas. I like that you have had experience throughout the world. Which, we don't always get it right here as well so bringing ideas from others could potentially make us successful. So welcome aboard. Look forward to it. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Jake Johansson? 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Thank you. You have been around the block, I've seen your face once or twice before some I know you are no stranger to economic development in the area. And the challenges we have here. For another world traveler in my previous life, I know you have experienced many things and you have some great ideas of how to move Volusia County forward. 
 
Just don't ever forget a lot of us have not been around the world and we are not as familiar with those things so you have to explain them to get them to stick. But I'm pretty excited that you have that breadth of diverse knowledge in what works and what does not work and hopefully you can find what works and plug it in here in Volusia County and get our middle class moving forward and moving our county forward. 
 
And like they say, rising waters... What do rising waters do? Sink all ships or rise all ships? Float all ships. There you go. Thank you very much. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Lou, we don't know each other yet but I will tell you the economic development department at our airport has become one of my favorite apartments, because there's always something exciting and impressive going on. 
 
And you said it, David said it, I have a large family as well. When my kids are ready to go to work, I want them to be able to stay here. I really look forward to getting to know you and working with you, your predecessor was an amazing woman. Did a great job. But I know you will as well. So just welcome. And congratulations on this. 
 
LOU PARIS: 
Thank you, Chairman. 
 
(Applause) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
No pictures, Pat? 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
When he lands the big contract, we will take a picture. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK, that brings us to item 4. This is a public hearing, so I will open the public hearing now if anybody cares to speak on this item, please give your form to Karissa Green was this is ordinance 2023 – 40, small-scale comprehensive land use plan amendment of 40.22 acres. 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
Good afternoon, Clay Ervin director of growth and resource management. I would like to address both agenda items four and five with my presentation. They are two separate items. This one is legislative. The next is quasi judicial. But they pertaining to the same property. This is a future land use map amendment. If this is not approved, you cannot approve the subsequent item number five picks it would not be consistent with the comprehensive plan. 
 
What we have today is a request for change in both land use and zoning for 40 acre parcel located at the northwest corner of State Route 44 and Kepler Road. That is an area that has been approved for a PUD for the renovation of an existing gas station. 
 
The applicant wants to take that and expand that to include the other areas that are currently under the urban low intensity land-use. Urban low intensity allows for residential uses up to four units per acre plus it allows for some limited commercial activities up to 5 acres. 
 
That is why you were able to get a PUD for that corner parcel for the existing gas station. What they want to do is make it so it is split between commercial and urban non-intensity. Urban not intensity allows for multifamily units and is in a dramatic increase in the amount of density that can be allocated and the commercial will allow for the development of various commercial uses. 
 
Because this is tied to a PUD we can speak in the next item in regard to what is being proposed for that. It increases traffic because of that. It meets seven of the eight criteria identified for discouraging, and one of the things that was brought up in your staff report was consistency with the 2015 vision plan. The land had, back in the 70s, kind of a special law passed by the state because they were identifying the water and sewer service areas. 
 
And that translated to a planing practice that was implemented back in 1990 with the adoption of the original comprehensive plans of the greater DeLand plan. 
 
That is identifying areas that are outside of their jurisdiction and kind of giving an idea of what they envision this area to develop into. The reason why they are able to do so is this is within the water and sewer service area. 
 
They would be the provider of the utilities to this site. Annexation is not practical at this time, or legal, because it is not continuous to the existing boundary of the city of DeLand, so they would remain in the unincorporated areas. But again, receiving utilities from the city. 
 
At the planning and land development regulated commission we heard from the public who expressed concerns in regard to the already burdensome traffic that is occurring at this location. 
 
And we are concerned that by adding a commercial use and specifically additional multifamily uses, that there would be additional traffic, making it even worse. Was identified by the applicant during the process, the improvements to state Route 44 and Kepler intersection would be completed the timeframe where once this is completed, those will be coming online, specifically the shifting of it from a signal intersection to that of a roundabout. 
 
Around about what includes the planes as well as the standard roundabout to allow for traffic to move freely through there. There's also discussion about the Beresford Avenue extension which had been identified since the 90s as the viable alternative route to state Route 40 leading into downtown DeLand, would be completed about that time. 
 
They spoke in generalities of it because that is a joint effort between the city of DeLand, Volusia County, and private developers to facilitate it being connected from state Route 44, Summit Boulevard, all the way over to where it would make a connection to the existing right-of-way, which would lead into downtown Deland. 
 
So, the PLDRC recommended denial of the proposed land use amendment. They did review the proposed... Let me go ahead if you could take me to agenda item number five. They did review also the PUD and recommended denial of that as well because again, it was inconsistent with the proposed comp plan amendment. I want to go over because again, it is important for you to understand what is in the PUD so you can decision both on the future land use amendment and the proposed PUD. 
 
This gives you an idea of the conceptual plan that would be incorporated in the planned unit development. As you can see there is nothing specifically shown on that Northern parcel. Which would be the portion that would be developed for multifamily. This area over to the West would be covered by a conservation use mint, approximately 10 acres of wetlands and uplands that would be kept for compensatory storage, stormwater, and concerns due to flooding would occur.  
 
The other portions of it would consist of the existing gas station under every redevelopment plan already, and the remainder will be developed for a typical grocery shopping center where you would have the online stores, with larger grocery store as well as out parcel capabilities. 
 
That was presented. You have a recommendation of denial on that because it, again, it is not consistent of what the PLDRC felt was appropriate for a future land use.  
 
The applicant on Friday submitted a request to put specific restrictions, both in the future land use, and in the PUD. Originally there attempting to get approval for a maximum of up to 240 units, that could be developed for 240 apartments, or townhomes. They are now seeking to restrict the property, to no more than 100 townhomes and that would be done through, first of all, a note on the future land use map which would restrict a use of the parcel to that type of use, and the developing standards currently in the draft PUD. They would simply strike the multifamily and keep the townhome standards are already in there. 
 
They will be able to go over the impacts. They have a presentation to discuss, main concern which is tied to the traffic. It is coming to you with staff recommendation of approval on both items, and PLDRC recommendation, or excuse me, planning land-use recommendation denial for future land use, and rezoning. 
 
Staff is here and available to answer any questions you may have. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Thank you for the presentation, Clay. 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
Paolo noticed something in the presentation, we encourage you identify the vote of the PLDRC, it was 5 to 1, and one number was missing and Mr. (unknown name) voted in favor of trying to prove it, and when motion came up he voted against that. Item 5, it is because I judicial, you have to have ex parte communication. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Do we want to do ex parte now and get it out of the way? Does anybody have any ex parte to declare? 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
I don't. I spoke with Frank Ford, and Mr. Watts.  
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I spoke with Mr. Watts, and I think the applicants were in the meeting, also. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
I spoke with Mr. Watts. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Mr. Watts. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Mr. Watts. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Same.  
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Are you ready for questions? 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Thank you, Clay, the language you said that is going to be inserted – is that a regularly used practice and are we confident that it stands up to the test of somebody not penetrating it? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
Yes, you can see many cities through the Volusia County utilize this, and we have utilized it ourselves where, again, it is appropriate with a land-use decision and enforceable to sit there and put site-specific restrictions on your future land use map, or in policies of your future land use element. In which case, you have a property owner typically offering those restrictions, and elected bodies approving it and putting it in that method. 
 
It stays in perpetuity, or until there is a request, and has to come to the County Council to amend that. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Is that different to when someone wants to get into a certain zoning category, and there is a permitted use to exclude a specific permitted use? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
If you're talking about with a rezoning to PUD to go in there and exclude specific uses, so that there is protection against those? Yes, you can do that as well. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
As a PUD? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
Yes. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
My other question is if we can go to the map, the second map we see there, when it shows the parcel lines. Am I seeing this map accurately? Let me see if I can mark this up. It is not working. Right here, is that a separate parcel going through the back there between the lake and the property line? 
 
LEI ZHANG: 
That is not part of the application. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
But there is a separate parcel there? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
Yes. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Is at an easement? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
I don't know the nature of the property, it has not come up with as part of the discussion. In other words, there is obviously private land between the lake and what would be the northwest corner of this development. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
OK. I was curious, that is a surprise, when I saw the map it started to me. 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
What you are seeing is this is a paper road here. That was created somewhere, and you can see that is private held land. That may, as you were asking, that may be an easement or right-of-way, don't know. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
OK, Mark if you do know about it, you can share. The PUD, for item number five, you may have been in my meeting when I met with the applicants. During the meeting, I had mentioned about design standards a little bit, and talked about it. Specifically, I used a reference from some communities sometimes where you see – I will give the example, go to South Florida, and some of the more influential communities and you go into some of these commercial projects – they are very nice. 
 
You turn into it and you think you are in a resort. But there is a Publix, Starbucks, and all the same stores we have here. Then I referenced, in some cases, in many cases, you see outside of the communities, you don't see the same quality of development in the design standard here.  
 
I know we have some standards that we hold them to in the past. I have also seen in other jurisdictions where in the PUD we have asked – they have asked applicants to submit the design standards of what they intend to build and what it looks like, as a negotiated process before the PUD. Is that something that we can practice? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
We can do that for the nonresidential, I believe there is restrictions on residential development standards. Single-family. Single-family no, but townhome and commercial we can negotiate, if that is an issue, if that's identified as being critical and ensuring consistency in compliance with the code and comprehensive plan. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
 You are saying we can do it if we wanted to? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
Yes sir, you have to tied to the specific ability would to ensure the consistency and development with both the surrounding areas as well as with the code and comprehensive plan. It has to be able to tie those together. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I get you. It might be a little subjective, but I get it, I think. Council, I will talk about when the time comes, but I want to put that on the radar. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Questions, Councilman Johansson? 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Thank you. Clay, this is more of a general question, but a good of time as any. Lately, PLDRC has recommended things that has gone against staff recommendations – is that fair to say? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
It occasionally happens. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
So it comes to us. What I'm trying to find is where the disconnect is, and how we can resolve that. I like the diversity of thought, don't get me wrong, on the PLDRC, but I want to make sure that PLDRC and staff understand our thoughts, as a governing body, and I want to make sure that there is not anything down at the PLDRC staff level that we can address to make your job in their job easier. Is there anything I am missing here? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
No, sir. Have there been situations where staff has recommended denial and the PLDRC has recommended approval and vice versa? Yes. But, I would say the majority of the items coming forward we see that there is a uniformity in how the members of the planning and land development regulation commission assess the criteria- as staff. Staff is really kind of looking at what our past experience is, our rules, our interpretations – those types of things. 
 
It really comes down to the criteria we have to evaluate. In the situation there has been a disagreement on how those evaluations.  
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Interpretation. Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Along the same lines on page 2 it says that staff found this consistent with the plan. The PLDRC did not find it consistent. How do you interpret that? That is a pretty stark contrast. 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
Again, I would say, it is this, and I am interpreting, so pardon me on this. There is a point of timing, because what staff is looking as the commitment of improvement for state Route 44 and Kepler are in the DOT work program, so from a concurrency perspective, those are committed funds for the improvement. It has been identified to address traffic out to 2040, so from concurrency perspective, staff is acknowledging that is a fact and it is applicable in this situation. 
 
There were concerns voiced by the planning and land development regulation commission regarding, first and foremost, just the installation of a roundabout. They felt that that was probably not the appropriate improvement. Again, that is a DOT controlled roads we don't have the ability to say no to the specific improvement. 
 
I think the linchpin on the decision was tied to traffic and congestion. I know that many of the residents also identified some concerns with the multi family, and that also have carried over some of the planning board members. Staff saw that as a fact that our planning land developing regulation commitment members – staff saw that as an internal capture situation because you have residential access into an arterial road to get into the area, if you have conductivity between it provides opportunity for those who live in the facilities to easily get or walk or bike, or they need to drive, not have to go out on the public road. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK. What does the comp plan say the land in this area is supposed to be used for?  
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
Right now recorded between city of Deland in our comprehensive plan. Our comprehensive plan has identified this as an urbanized area, hence urban low intensity designation there. We also talked about the ability to convert land to commercial uses at intersections and major roads such as the arterial roads and state roads. 
 
Again, it meets many of the policies that we have in regards to future growth and the need for additional commercial sites. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK. Does the comp plan require a watershed study? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
Watershed? No, the comprehensive plan does not have specific requirements for analysis of that nature. That would be done as part of the subdivision or site plan process. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
So that will be done? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
It will be part of the stormwater analysis. They have to utilize what basin they are into analyze what the stormwater is going to require and what has to be done. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK. The way you understand it, at this point, there is existing wetlands there that is not going to be developed – is that where all of the drainage will be directed?  
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
It will be part of it. Let me get to the concept plan if I can. Thank you. There we go. There are stormwater ponds, there is conveyance also into that area. So, that will be used primarily for not only the storage, but the treatment and also allowing for the continuation of the flow. 
 
The applicant can provide better detail on what the engineering is calling for. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK. One last question. Put on your, look into your crystal ball. This one you know. Will the roundabout be four lanes now with an south or two lanes? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
You will be to lanes leading both North and South. In my presentation, I talked about slip lanes. Those are these areas here, here and here. What these do is allow for traffic that is coming… I will talk about State Road 44 eastbound. 
 
If you are coming in here and instead of having to traverse through roundabout, you can just go ahead and that will be a right turn lane that will allow you to continue onto southbound Martin Luther King. 
 
Conversely, if you are westbound on 44, you would be able to use that to convert and go into the northbound Kepler towards 92. So, those will provide for cleaner and easier movement through there. 
 
If you are proceeding forward, you are still going to have to go through and it will remain the two lane configuration. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK. Thank you. Those are all of my questions. Vice chair Troy Kent? 
 
TROY KENT: 
Thank you, chairman. Mr Ervin, couple of questions before I do, it is always a pleasure when you are up at the podium because you are less prepared. You know your business. You have always done your homework, and I appreciate that about you. 
 
Which is why we turn you read when we say you are the best in the business. You are great at what you do. That being said, PLDRC. Each Council member has one appointment. Is that correct? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
Yes sir. 
 
TROY KENT: 
OK. PLDRC is an advisory board appointed by us. 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
Seven members appointed by the county. 
 
TROY KENT: 
Correct. And the staff report, we heard you say it was 7-0 but then you corrected it and said it was 6-1. 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
5-1.  
 
TROY KENT: 
5-1, thank you for correcting me. Then the second vote 6-0 recommending denial? Is that what Paolo said? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
Think it was because at that point, you cannot approve the PUD. 
 
TROY KENT: 
Right. And you mentioned that. You begin your comments with that this evening with us, with the two items that are before us. So, this was a big issue for me when I send my questions to George, which is there's a disconnect here somewhere. With staff recommending approval but PLDRC recommending denial. So I need some more information and I'm assuming it is you give the response? And it should be. Thank you. 
 
So we have PLDRC recommending denial, and for this, my final question, and am going to say please do not answer this unless you feel like you should. Because I would never want to put you in a sticky situation. 
 
You are too much of a professional and too good to get caught. But if you cannot answer it I want to hear from the applicant when they come up and do it. At the 11th hour, which I'm actually OK with changes like that, you heard me before, I don't like 13th hour stuff but the 11th hour, you can make some changes. 
 
So I heard that it was initially the process, they were asking for up to 240 townhomes, and now on Friday they said they would be OK with 100 townhomes? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
The original request was up to 240 multifamily homes that could be apartments or townhomes. And now they are trying to restrict it to 100 townhomes. 
 
TROY KENT: 
So why? Why would they do that? At this 11th hour? That is the part you might not want to answer. 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
I cannot answer that. I will have to allow the applicant to. 
 
TROY KENT: 
That is an answer I need before I vote on this. When the applicant comes up. I need some information. That is a drastic change, in my opinion. Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Dempsey. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
I don't know if you can explain the bears for extension and we have more information on one that might be completed. 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
It started back in the 90s. There was concern about the traffic that was already at that intersection with Kepler/Martin Luther King. The DOT came in and studied it and they were looking at also we widening 44 in that area or what were some alternatives. 
 
So they identified that, working with DOT on the County and cities and private landowners, if you could take and directs traffic away from that intersection of 44 and Kepler... 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
Do we have a visual of that? Like an expanded view? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
The applicant is going to go over that in greater detail. But basically going from State Road 44 and shooting West into the existing segment of Beresford, here we go. This gives you an idea of what they are talking about. 
 
So that way, those who are aware of this road could utilize that instead of 44. So what it does is it gives an alternative route to those who are traveling east and west on 44 utilize Beresford Avenue to either go to Kepler, Martin Luther King, or continue on to blue Lake or even continue on further west on Beresford. 
 
SPEAKER: 
This is all designed to alleviate some of that traffic stacking on 44. This is already in the works, correct? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
There's been agreements between the city, the county, Volusia County school board, and developers along this right-of way to facilitate the developing of it. Tadd will have to give you better detail in terms of the timing but there are segments of it where private development is responsible for the construction. 
 
And those are those areas. And then there is the part that is to be built by Volusia County, utilizing impact fees and prompt fair share. What you see is in that particular situation, we have an impact fee fund for this particular district. We also have development occurring in that area. They have had to pay into a prop fair share for the proportional amount they could utilize this. 
 
This gives you an idea of the time frames. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
There's been a lot of concern about existing traffic backups. And now with this new development, it would be even worse. But I do know going eastbound in the morning, traffic is backed up almost to Summit. From that intersection. Is this designed to alleviate that backup? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
Westbound on 44? Yes sir. That is the whole point behind it is to provide an alternative route. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
So this involves four different factors. Do we have any realistic idea of when this will all be done and complete in this alternative route will be in place? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
This slide shows the timeframe. Tadd can clarify. But that gives you an idea. 
 
TADD KASBEER: 
Good afternoon. Tadd Kasbeer, County engineer. So this is the four different segments that would extend (indiscernible) west of Kepler 1-A is to be constructed by the development to the south and the county is working on everything west of that in the green all the way back over the Blue Lake. That is prepared to go to construction bidding shortly and we will start construction as soon as they finished their section which their section is scheduled to be completed sometime in August of this year. 
 
Ours will take approximately 6 to 8 months when they actually start on site. And we hope to be able to get started as soon as they get done August 1, second, whenever (indiscernible). East of Kepler and Martin Luther King, you can see the initial phase to be constructed by Lakewood Park Estates which will start sometime in the middle part of this year. They have not given us a formal schedule for that section. 
 
We are under design to approve the tasks assigned for the purple section, at your last meeting. So we are just starting the design on that portion, virgin territory so we expect the design to actually move forward pretty quickly. 
 
We will do construction as soon as that is done, and we expect to be done as you will see, mid to late 2026. Much like Blue Lake extension, he will move along pretty quickly, simply because there is nothing you have to worry about in terms of traffic. You don't have to move people, you don't have to do anything along those lines so it will be pretty quick overall. 
 
The one thing I would note, to your question earlier about this being designed to help alleviate traffic on State Road 44, we have designed it that way and the reason, or the way you see that, is right now Summit is currently the road that terminates at State Road 44. 
 
And to make sure we make it as easy for traffic wanted to go westbound, we have realigned Summit to tie into Beresford so if you're going westbound he went to go down Beresford you just have to make a left to the light that you are right there instead of going onto Summit and making another right turn on Beresford. 
 
So we have put in design considerations to make it as easy as possible to alleviate the traffic problem. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
This is designed to be too late for now the possibility of being four-lane in the future? That is all I have. Thank you. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
Makes sense because I was looking at the different dates some are developers and summarize that are doing it. Real quick question, the slip lanes gave us the idea of being able to do a right turn while more traffic flow straight I say straight, going around the roundabout. 
 
And the other question, how many access points going into or out of this development? And where are they, do we know? 
 
TADD KASBEER: 
I think they have projected locations for, the answer to your second question first, they have projected locations but when they come in for their final site plan, we will go ahead and compare that and make any modifications as required. For the distance, from the intersection as necessary. 
 
So what is shown as far as we're concerned is conceptual. We have not commented on the exact locations, they will need tweaks based on what real-world conditions tell us when we get a full survey of the existing topographic conditions. As well as comparing that to DOT's final construction plan. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
I did not know that was some of why the Beresford construction came into play. Just the traffic flow? No idea until we see the site? OK. 
 
TADD KASBEER: 
Your first question was about the slip lanes on the roundabout up at 44 and Kepler? Yes, the idea is that they have a free flow. In this case, unlike our roundabout to the south where you truly have a free flow condition where the lane comes off and rejoins, in the situation they come to a stop and have to wait to see if there's any traffic. It is not quite as free-flowing... 
 
MATT REINHART: 
Is what this would be? I remember the comments made by Councilor Santiago about around about (Laughs) That is what made me think that because of the stoppage of that traffic. 
 
TADD KASBEER: 
It is a slightly different situation. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
Signage is important. Not that they will observe the signage but… 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
I want to clear for something you said. He asked if this was to Lane and eventually four-lane and you said it could be eventually four then, you are talking just about the Beresford extension, not Kepler? 
 
TADD KASBEER: 
Ultimately Kepler could if the traffic counts get to that point. When they do the roundabout, there will be two lanes entering and two lanes leaving. In each of the four legs. It is basically two lanes total in each direction. Much like what we did with our roundabout to the south. Widen to four lanes and go through the roundabout and then the short distance thereafter, you go back down to the two lanes. (indiscernible) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thinking. Deputy County manager Suzanne (unknown name)? False flag? (Laughs) OK. I don't see any more questions. But I want to ask the Council and perhaps staff something.  
 
The applicant doesn't speak until item 5. The applicant may not get to speak on item 5 if we do not approve this. I don't know if we vote this down, there is no item 5. I don't know if the Council would like to – and Mark did not turn in a request to speak. In fairness, it would probably be appropriate to allow him to speak. 
 
PAOLO SORIA: 
This is a legislative decision, the applicant is not a participant, they are a party for the matter. You can usually give them the right – 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Do you care to speak? 
 
PAOLO SORIA: 
Present. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
You can present, and I suggest we go to public comments before we go further. 
 
MARK WATTS: 
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the Council, I appreciate the opportunity here. Mark Watts, law firm of Cobb Cole, two 3111. I have a handful of people with me this evening, primarily the applicant, Redstone development, our clients, (unknown name), project engineer, Joe Revere with (unknown name) is here, and (unknown name) who is also with our office who has been working on this. She reminded me today this was the very first item she started working on when she joined the firm five years ago. Which is hard to believe we have been in this particular property and location for five years. 
 
I give you the history because part of the time period is the evolution of the project, in response to comments from the staff, residents in the area. Mr. Kent, to your question, even recent changes to the project have resulted from those conversations, and I will touch on that. 
 
Mr. Chairman, with your discretion, following staff lead, I want to talk about both of them and then we can break and talk about each of the individual applications as the Council deems fit. OK.  
 
Again, appreciate the opportunity to be here, staff is done a great job as they always do giving you the overview and background of why we are here, and I appreciate the clarification on the PLDRC vote. We were proud of the one vote, that we did get there. 
 
Staff somebody was accurate in regards to the concerns that were raised there. Most of us drive through the intersection and you see with the traffic is like now, you see the issues with the backups and things of that nature and we will go into a lot of detail this evening about the things that are in the works, you have heard a lot of this from your staff. 
 
There has been planning since the 1990s. That is important contact to put it in. One of the other things I will touch on as I go through the presentation is that planning is not just the infrastructure, the schools, the roads, it is also the uses that complement one another to reduce the trips on the roadway. That is an important point that I will touch on as we move forward. 
 
What are we here talking about? We are here with the land-use amendment to go from commercial, or from urban hello, which is what has been there since the early 1990s, that are below intensity classification was put on the property when the original comprehensive plan was adopted in 1990. We have not gone back to readdress planning for this particular area of the community since 1990. 
 
In the meantime things have changed, certainly. We have Kepler Road, used to be a dirt road that stopped about a thousand feet short of 44 in 1992. Now it is MLK extending further south and it's the place that DeLand have grown up over the past 25 years, by design and we'll talk about that  in the 2050 plan. It is time to update and look at what has occurred and what the current plan should be. 
 
We originally proposed a higher residential here and we can fit what we have revised our application to under urban medium, but because we have advertised urban high, and that is how everything is been put together, we added the map notation work with staff as a way to make sure that we are capping the density and the way we have suggested. 
 
Let me walk through this. We have over 40 acres of total land. We propose a mixed use shopping area with residential component. Significant areas of open space, tree preservation, wetland preservation, and integration of the existing shopping or existing reconstruction of the Circle K, that was approved by the Council about eight years ago, if I remember correctly. It's when the roundabout was first started we talked about, it incorporated the original design right-of-way for the roundabout and necessary back at that point in time. It has shown one of the videos in a second. 
 
Everything I just said, on the slide, I should have advanced to that sooner. That is what we are here asking for. We are asking to update the planning that has occurred, so we can work with you and your staff and the city of Deland to plan will will be not there for tomorrow, but what will be there in a couple of years. When you talk about the planning stage and zoning stage, you are not talking about authorizing something that is going to start construction tomorrow, you are talking about, how do we put this in the context of what the right thing is to plan for going forward into the future through our site plan process and everything else? How do we evaluate concurrency and things of that nature? 
 
We are not asking for a vote today that will result in shovels going into the ground tomorrow, in fact, it will be 10 months to a year before you see any movement on battlement in the area, which will be talked about after the improvements in place are underway. 
 
OK. I want to take you back. I was going back through files as we got ready for the hearing and the first plan we had was from 2019 for the site but this is the original plan submitted as a PUD back in 2020. If you look at – let me see if I can mark this up the way Clay did – this is Kepler, this is 44, you will note there wasn't, at this point in time, a roundabout that had been designed, you are still showing a signal at the intersection here. 
 
It was less property, further to the west, but it had wetland effects. As you go west of the property, there is a drainage that goes up to the north, and feeds into hammock Lake, and blue Lake and into Lake (unknown name) and then up to Hawk Creek. The staff wanted a redesign of the plan if you can get additional property, shipped this or you're not impacting the wetlands there, so even though the wetlands were not particularly high quality based on the UN and scores in every thing else, staff wanted to hold the line and see if we can shift the configuration of the property. 
 
As a result of that we ended up getting additional property under contract here an additional property under contract because it was under the same ownership and ultimately the essentially said, "we are going to sell it we are going to sell it all at one time." That is the initial starting point, and how we began the progression that has taken us about five years to get to this point. 
 
How do I erase? I am holding. Clear. There we go. 
 
That brings us to where the site plan has come today. Again, if you look at the overall plan here, this is a conceptual plan that is in the PUD attached to it. We have added – the shopping center shifted to the east, we redesigned to anticipate the design of the roundabout that is been included. We have added incidental components on up the portion of the land that we are acquiring or on under acquire to land owners, (indiscernible) is under this, and the gas station parcel got smaller because the original plan was on septic and because we have been able to work together with them, and the other project in the area, now central sewer is being extended there so they will be able to connect to that and shrink their overall footprint. 
 
The area you see in green is where the existing wetlands were, it is where that flow way that goes up to the lakes that moved north of here is so we can make sure that we are preserving, and actually using that as part of our filtration system, stormwater management system to make sure that the water quality is protected as things move north. We got her engineers here if you have any particular questions on that. 
 
Here is the summary of those evolutionary steps. We have redesigned to eliminate the impacts of the wetlands and upland buffers and added in the conservation areas and tree preservation areas and requirement under the PUD they go into the conservation easement. 
 
The reduction from 240 multifamily units to 100 – if you want back and listen to the discussion on PLDRC, one of the things and this is something that we have heard from members of the community repeatedly as we work through the process, ever since we added the multifamily component, because of the extra land we need to work with. Shopping center is necessary here. 
 
We started meeting with some of the members of the community association that there five years ago, and the consensus has always been, shopping or commercial uses are OK west of Kepler, let's keep that as the treaty line let's not encroach on Lake (unknown name), and they are a necessary thing to provide the service and the use for the growth and development that is occurring in the side of town. 
 
What we heard from the planning board, PLDRC is concerned about the roundabout, and concerned about the intensity of the residential. We have made the decision finally last week, after talking with some additional residents in talking with some other folks in the area, that kept pointing to, and you saw in the email came from one of the residents that lived in the areas, the shopping center is something we can justify their, the residential component is something they had concerned with. 
 
We made the decision that we can reduce it down to the minimum that we can go to, with regard to the planning for the property and switch from apartments to townhomes to try to make the updates we have done that. We have added things like compliance with international dark sky standards, request from the community meetings.  
 
We got further than you typically would be for traffic analysis what we don't have final approved traffic TIA yet, you usually would not get that entailed the site plan process but we have it, and that TIA has been done. We have comments back from your staff and so we are ahead of the game with regard to that process. 
 
We know what additional improvements may be necessary as we move forward to be able to meet your concurrency test because we know the things that are early in the process and are already funded but there may be additional things that this project also has to fund. 
 
Let me talk to you but the need. I put this together, again, going back to the idea that the current comp plan land use that as there has been there since 1990, and a lot of things have changed. Obviously you have got all, I will mark it here, none of Victoria Park existed. In addition to this, each of the starred locations here in yellow are residential projects that have been part of Deland planning over the past several years Beresford reserve, Trinity Place, Victoria Parks, Summit Place, and with the exception of Summit Place the rest are under construction now. Some are places in the process but we are processing a PUD amendment for it currently. 
 
How does that relate to the traffic concerns? The green stars on the screen show you where the current shopping centers are in DeLand. All of the development that has occurred on the east side of town only has the option of currently of going to US 1792 Woodland corridor to shop. Publix on the south, Walmart neighborhood center, Winn-Dixie at 15A and 44, and the Publix and Walmart on the north end of town. 
 
You have to plan for the additional uses in town, otherwise you're going through town to go to the other location. This is a plan, claim made reference to the Greater Deland Area Act. Deland is unique in the state. In the 70s we adopted this things it says: where are we going to grow in the lifespan as a city? Where are we going to plan to expand into? How we plan utilities for this?  
 
This is done in 2009 as a result of workshops in the city, and the county was invited, and I know staff members from the county that participated in those back then. The basic premise was everything in the darker orange area you see here was where we encourage higher intensity development. Ever in the later yellow is maintaining the existing densities not increasing densities in the areas. 
 
The red dot to see here are specifically called out on the plan is mixed use, and the blue arrow points to this corner. What that means is – this is the vision statement from Deland 2050 plan, I thought was relevant, it talks about establishing mixed-use centers and supporting alternative modes of transportation to result in a more livable and sustainable community. 
 
The theory, the central organizing theory of the plan is, add the mixed-use notes throughout the city so you don't just have a linear north-south commercial corridor, you have more opportunities to make the trips going to the places shorter. 
 
So, I'm getting close to the end, I promise. Traffic. That is what we have heard repeatedly through this process will stop I think if we were sitting here where we were five years ago from a funding standpoint saying that we want to do all these things, without an answer to the question about when the roundabout is being funded, what is a construction timing? Without answers to this on the Beresford extension, I would have a harder time standing before your passing the red-faced saying we are going to get it handled. 
 
The benefit of five years of planning has also included the benefit of five years of coordinating, knowing what is happening in the area. We have the privilege of being involved with all of the various planning that you have seen going on, with the development going on in the area. And as a firm, we can work with the city and County we can know this development serves multiple things in the area. So let me talk about that for just a second. 
 
The roundabout. Everyone of us has experienced the delays that you currently experiencing sitting in that, going to and from the interstate on 44. I live a block north of 44. That is my route. I experience it along with everybody else. This is the DOT's counts and projections of the reduction and delays as a result of the construction of the roundabout. 
 
It is hard to see, but this based on their projection of growth on the volumes at the PM peak area in 2040. The reduction on afternoon delays is cut at least in half in the morning delays is cut down to roughly 20%, or 25%, I'm an attorney not an engineer so I don't do math as quickly but 20 to 25% of what the current would continue to generate. I think they can play this for you. 
 
This is the animation, this is the video of the DOT created that takes the p.m. peak hour from their projections and runs it through the roundabout so you can see with the actual afternoon rush hour volume looks like going to the roundabout. 
 
This is an extraordinarily important improvement for this area and to facilitate the additional uses that really are necessary out there to support the growth that has occurred in Deland. Let me see if it plays. There we go. 
 
Again, this is p.m. peak hour based on the DOT's projection of 20/40 traffic volumes. The other thing, in addition to the continuous flow to keep the backups from building up to Summit or Hill, the other thing that is important to see is the additional pedestrian and bike facilities. You see significant crosswalks, you see the islands that provide safe havens for pedestrians as they are crossing the the intersections. 
 
This is a much better design. PLDRC, one of the things that made clear was they really don't like roundabouts. This is coming. This is what is funded. This will actually start construction, I believe right now based on the DOT schedule, they are supposed to give the green light to the contractor to start at the end of the month. Next week. 
 
This will start construction over the next year and will be completed by 2025. OK, can we go back to the presentation for a second? At the same time, if you have driven that area at all recently, you will also notice there's other construction going on. 
 
Let's see... There we go. This is an active construction process. DOT is in the process of reserving, widening and adding pedestrian safety facilities from Hill Avenue to Interstate 4. That was taken yesterday. If you were wondering what they were doing, if it is a stormwater project, this is actually that project going forward and this is scheduled to be completed by the end of this year. Again, well in advance of any impact of the proposed development we are talking about tonight. 
 
Beresford extension. This is one that I think has been really great example of collaboration. Because of how well everyone has worked together. Tadd already went through this so I will not go into fine detail on this but basically the green section, you've got it design. You are getting ready to build that with the money that is coming through various funding sources. 
 
The orange section is under construction now. I will show you an aerial of that in a second. The blue is under construction. I think the blue will be completed in May and the orange in August of this year. And finally, the purple section is one that frankly I am proud of because when you lost at the Council approved the original alignment for where the Beresford extension was going to go, you actually approved it coming in and intersecting right there. 
 
Some people thought it was great idea and some people thought it was a horrible idea. I was in the horrible idea. But something we were able to do when we were working on the Lakewood Park down here was dedicate additional right-of-way that accommodated the extension to Summit or 44 there. The county, city and school board were at loggerheads at that point in time on how to get the additional right-of-way across the school board property so the extra right of way that our client dedicated to go to the original route was traded to the school board in October. 
 
And you got the right of way to connect into summit. You are now in design on that, and that is scheduled to be in place within three years. I think that is an example of us all working together to make sure the road network that has been planned since 1996 is now moving forward under construction. 
 
OK, I promised you some pictures. I took these yesterday. I bought a drone like four years ago and this is the first time I've used it. It's great. Anyway, the picture on your left is looking down the Beresford extension area that has been cleared. You can see the drainage pipes and everything in place. 
 
That is the construction that will be completed by August. Looking on the other side, the right-hand side is the view from MLK looking to the east. That is under construction and you can already see the intersection was constructed with our projects first amendment, the Victoria reserve project and the Lakewood Park project got together and jointly the improvements when they were doing the turn lane so they did not have to come back and build in the roadway twice. 
 
So that's all underway. From that location to where the site is for the application in front of you, that green arrow represents where the shopping center is to support residential development use the occurring on the front left. That is the Trinity Gardens project under construction. 
 
So, I emailed it to you, I know you on some emails about some questions about traffic so I tried to give you a color-coded summary. I've got a full-blown traffic engineer here that is much better explaining these things than I am. 
 
But the key thing I think from the traffic standpoint is, you see some really big numbers when you're talking about projects of this nature. 13,504 trips. That is the increase, or the gross number of average daily trips that a project like this could generate. 
 
But, the development in the area. You have things like internal capture. Some he goes to the grocery store, they might stop at the coffee shop, they go to the drycleaner or multiple locations in the shopping center so you don't have to count those trips every time because you have all of those things at one location, so you can kill multiple birds with one stone, if you will. 
 
Pass by. If you have the residential adjacent, they can keep that as a private trip to go to the grocery store. Pass by. Pass by was huge in this analysis. 3200 trips in that ADT analysis that are basically trips that are already on the road network and already passing-- I'm sorry, 5200. My eyes are getting worse. 5200 trips, so 5200 are already driving past this location. So you are capturing those and shortening the trip and not sending them to another location. 
 
And you've got some existing trips from the site that kind of further reduce that. At the end of the day, the net new trips in the analysis is 5200. If you look at it from the standpoint of what creates trips and what is just capturing trips from going to another location, it is really only the residential and in this analysis it was looking at the apartments have an 1100 trips. In reality, when we reduce it down to the townhomes, it is about five or 600. 
 
In the whole analysis, those are the only new trips being created that are not passed by trips or trips going someplace else within the road network now. So, in conclusion, best words you have heard me say. 
 
In conclusion, what we are asking is for you to work with us to continue planning in a manner consistent with the Deland 2050 plan. It is very specific plan with specific goals. Those goals are ones we have heard people talk about that we need to be better with regard to planning, to integrating planning so we are shortening our trip lines and providing alternate modes, reducing the need to always get in a car to go a long distance to where your destination has. Providing a grocery option in an area that does not have one. 
 
Providing a transitional use, the residential use on the north that transitions to the church to the north of that and onto the rural lots north of that. We are not asking you to absolve us of responsibility for concurrency. We are not in the point of the process where we test for concurrency yet. That is where that TIA is due and we come back. So everything we've talked about tonight, those are things that are already funded. 
 
The additional improvements that may be required by our project have to come back to you in the form of a prop share group. And that is the next step in the process, should you approve us this evening. 
 
We have tried to make sure we have heightened our environment of standards. We have heightened the lighting standards to meet the additional requests that we had from the area. And so, we would ask for your support in improving both the land-use and the rezoning this evening. 
 
With that, David, I think the only question I did not answer was what is that additional piece of land up to the north. That is actually the extension, there is a paper road that is the extension of New York Avenue. Actually the lines if you know, when you're heading out of town to the east, you get to that little gas station that summer he ran into a couple months ago, there's a dirt road going north. That is extension of New York Avenue. And it continues and goes on the north end of the property. 
 
So that plus some additional land basically intercedes between the North, called the thumb of this project, and (indiscernible). So with that, I will stop. This is the first time I've done an evening hearing. I've been here for other small items but not an evening hearing. My first hearing as an attorney 26 years ago was an evening hearing on staff for the County Attorney's office and we finished at 1:35 so I will do my best to be shorter. We are not talking about grease waste management tonight. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
David Santiago, you have a question? 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Yes. Thank you for stubble of the points that I asked to clarify was design standards. I wrote down something I agree with you and I think you said this council has said is we need to do better. And I think one of the areas that we need to do better in is and design standards. 
 
I realize we are not dealing with number five. Do you prefer the idea with that in the next conversation? 
 
MARK WATTS: 
I can answer that whenever you want to ask it but I think you can prove that through a PUD for address it through a PUD. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
That is what I thought. I didn't know if you had any conceptuals ready to show. I realize most developers truly would not like to be pinned down, "show me now what the project is going to look like." 
 
But I believe strongly that that is how communities that are seeing these nicer developed properties are holding them to that standard. I would like to find a way to incorporate that into the PUD. Let me just say that very clearly. 
 
MARK WATTS: 
I think the simple answer is we have to meet your nonresidential design standards referenced in the PUD. I think we could attach it to the elevations. We don't have that this evening but notice the prototype and it looks really nice. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I think though, Mark, those standards, if what we have seen being built over the last couple of years is the same standard, it's probably not good enough, in my opinion. I don't know how the Council feels. 
 
In my opinion, if that is what is going to be followed, I would like to utilize the benefit of the PUD to negotiate a more enhanced facility. Because that is how they are doing it in other communities, right? 
 
Should not necessarily accept the bare minimum when we are doing a PUD. A POD is a negotiated tool for us to say "oh, let's go to the table and negotiate what we want to see." 
 
I know we have to hear from the public so I will not give my general thoughts until I hear from them but let's talk about that and I will bring it back to the Council the next vote. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Robbins? 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Thank you for that thorough presentation. It was well put together. I just want to go for a quick summary so I have everything in my mind squared away. 
 
If, at any time at the end, just tell me if I have misspoken. It has been identified as an urbanized future urbanized area. DOT controlled road, traffic improvements will be made. Reduced density almost in half is what it appears it also caps the density. Is that accurate? Reducing trips and delays? Wetlands protected when a percent? 
 
MARK WATTS: 
That is correct. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Consistent with The Land vision and service boundaries and the splendid decide with area long-term? 
 
MARK WATTS: 
Part of the 2050 plan of the city. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
And… This was planned and designed for this area long-term. 
 
MARK WATTS: 
It was part of the 2050 city plan. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
And you address the residential component, the extension and all of that stuff was accurate? 
 
MARK WATTS: 
Yes. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
That is it. Thanks. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
That is all I see – 
 
MARK WATTS: 
There might be more questions that come up after the public and there might be some engineering questions for example and we might want to bring a engineer out. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Yes, that is likely. 
 
I think we have six people that want to speak unless you have gotten? OK. First we have Paul Richardson. 
 
PAUL RICHARDSON: 
Afternoon counsel, I am Paul Richardson. I reason objection to the rezoning here. For the east Lamb project, if you look at the map, to the north of it as a church. And wetlands. And undeveloped area. South of it is the 711. Southeast is the animal hospital and directly east from it is again, wetlands and a lake. 
 
I am not opposed to progress or growth. But, what concerns me is that we are putting townhouses and a shopping center where – in a place where it has no business being. It would be an island unto itself, in other words. If this was built and rezoned as proposed, that is all that will be around. 
 
Like I said, again, I am not opposed to growth. But I do not think it is appropriate where this location is. And like I said, if you look at the map, directly north of it there is a church. And undeveloped areas. And so they might have crossed their T's and the staff has to say that they support the project. But listen to your BLDRC. They saw something in this project that I see, it is not an appropriate location for this particular develop it. If it was on international Speedway Boulevard, I would have no problem with it. It was a restaurant? As in keeping with the other locations around it, I would not have a problem with it. If it probably was even a subdivision being built there. It might not – I might not have a problem with it. 
 
But townhouses and a grocery store and a shopping center? It just does not fit. It does not match. Not be on the traffic, but also if you drive around the county, there are empty storefronts everywhere. Some places where people – stores need to be filled. 
 
I am not saying they cannot fill them, but other locations need to have businesses built in before we build more locations. Thank you very much. 
 
(Applause) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Sharon Cook. After Sharon it will be Paul Valentine. Just so you can be ready. 
 
SHARON COOK: 
I would like to ask the councilmembers, I am Sharon Cook and I live at 300 Lake Charles Road. I would like to ask the councilmembers if they got my email. Which I sent to each and every one of you. 
 
There are other people in our neighborhood that also, and we all brought up different problems against this development. Did you all get my email? 
 
Well let me try to summarize some of this stuff. OK? Well, number one, this development supposedly met with people in our community. I have lived on Lake Charles for 30 years. I have lived in Volusia County just about all my life. And I have not talked to any of the neighbors on Lake Charles or Forest Drive that have talked to any of these people. So, who did they talk to? Because the first thing we heard about it was coming up here to the PO – whatever that thing is that all of that we came to that meeting. 
 
And, another thing I want to bring up is the fact that everything was going great around here, pie in the sky and all this and then along came COVID. And the whole world just about stopped. Well, I believe that before we put pie in the sky here, we need some concrete roads, the beers for extension and do you think the roundabout is gonna be an answer? Talk to the city – or whoever, police, the roundabout at orange Kent and they will tell you that about every week, they have two or three accidents there. And they don't have near the traffic that 44 and Kepler have. I live in that area and from 7 o'clock in the morning until 9:30, you cannot get out on Kepler or 44 unless someone is nice. 
 
And in the afternoon, from 4 o'clock until 6:30, you cannot get in or out either direction. And there is a saying, they are going to build 13,339 more – much more traffic on a road that I cannot make a doctors appointment before 9:30 because I cannot get to it right here in the land. 
 
And I don't know when they do this, if the roundabout ever comes about, because we have been having – since 1996, they were going to build the beers for extension and then COVID, we ran out of money, Statesboro, whatever. I have heard that the state is not planning to do anything about the extension until 2040 or 2050. Somewhere between 2040 and 2050. 
 
So, I think before we put you know, tickets to see – 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you. The government. 
 
SHARON COOK: 
We have to live out there. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you, your time is up. Thank you. Well expressed. 
 
(Applause) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
We have Paul Valentine and following Paul is Jim Shepard. 
 
PAUL VALENTINE: 
Paul Valentine, Deland Florida. Mr. Chairman, Council and staff, I am here today to strongly oppose this proposed land rezoning and the associated project on North Kepler and 44. Lots of powerful landowners and lawyers have been working hard to push this project through. So, thank you for listening to me and the rest of us who are going to be adversely affected by this project – in my opinion. 
 
Elephant in the room is North Kepler Road. You know, it is well-known that North Kepler has been a problem for traffic and has been for a long time. Been a problem on the east side, traffic jams, difficulty pulling in and out, accidents are a common occurrence. 
 
This two lane road is the only reliable means of getting to US 92 from 44. This project will dump another 13,000+ whatever it is cars into the general vicinity each and every day. Almost doubling the existing traffic. This does not include the additional traffic from the 650 homes across wind and all that is going on down on South Kepler and Martin Luther King. 
 
It certainly is not going to make anything better for those of us who live there now and nothing saying here tonight will improve the traffic on North Kepler Road. Just because there is going to be a new roundabout at this intersection really does not mean we need to immediately open area up to high density developments. It is the classic definition of urban sprawl, build it and they will come. 
 
The roundabout may solve some of the immediate congestion, but it will instantly make things worse for those of us living on North Kepler Road. Not taking traffic away from North Kepler but in fact, making it a destination where people are going to come to to make the traffic worse. It is not clearing it out. It brings more traffic in. 
 
I'm opposed to the size and scope of the project I am opposed to the rezoning from agricultural to urban high density. Most of the property was developed is zoned for one home per acre of land and now they want to increase that to 10. 10 homes – a 1000% increase. That is not a small deviation. Housing densities of the size are not needed on North Kemper Road and should be relocated south or east where there is more room for growth. 
 
There is no reasonable transition from the proposed high density housing and the rural nature of the neighborhood. The vote today is not about this project but about rezoning – or about rezoning, we see what happens at (unknown name) beach when you do not think about time to think about rezoning and what the zoning is. 
 
So I ask again, please deny this zoning and planning change for this project. Take a look at it and give it more thought. And figure out what it will do for those of us who live there. Thank you. 
 
(Applause) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you. Jim Shepherd followed by Christine Levings. 
 
JIM SHEPPARD: 
Good afternoon. My name is Jim Sheppard and I live on North Kepler Road, 1 mile from this proposed project. My assessment of the request for rezoning is that it is not consistent with the comprehensive plan chapters 9 and 21 and must be denied. I will go into Chapter 9 first and I will read from you, chapter 9 of the conference a plan. 9.1.1. Volusia County shall fund and complete comprehensive watershed studies for all areas of currently developed or developing with essentially urban land uses. It goes on. Volusia County shall develop a comprehensive surface and ground watershed management plan within six months after the completion of the comprehensive drainage watershed studies. All land use and development which impact water resources in Volusia County shall conform to the comprehensive surface and ground watershed management plan. 
 
So, we've got – the little Hawk Creek watershed which extends to 472 up to 92, this is where this proposed development is located. Volusia County is not funding the watershed study and there is no comprehensive service of groundwater management plan. So, the shelves in chapter 9 have not been done and this should be denied. 
 
As far as chapter 21 goes, I asked Mr. Irving for how they determine that seven of the eight criteria are met and if you look at it through the eyes of the developer, that might be true. But if you do a more fair and balanced assessment of chapter 21, the threshold of the four criteria would not be met. 
 
If you look at the first six of the eight in chapter 21, none of those – I mean, none of those are met in my opinion and that is not real difficult way of looking at it. 
 
The last thing that I will mention is the same thing that Paul mentioned and that is that you have Kepler Road, designed for 17,050 daily trips for level service of D and you are adding 13,500 to the 2021 traffic study of 15,640 trips. You are up to about 29,000 trips which is well over the 17,050 trips that the road was designed for. 
 
Thank you for listening. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you. 
 
(Applause) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Christine? Christine Levings. Did Christine not… We have Ruthanne Fay then, and after Ruthanne we will have Maggie (unknown name). 
 
SPEAKER: 
Since I was here last time I spoke with the man at Circle K. I understand it's too late to stop your decision for the intersection at Kepler and 44 and he told me are planning around about there too.  
 
Any building, 100 townhomes or whatever else, is going to make the intersection worse. Who is going to live there? More northern two-car families? Illegal immigrants? I don't know. I asked that last time. Have you asked police about the number of accidents at Kepler Orange Camp? Drivers don't understand the yield signs. 
 
I live in Victoria Gardens, there are lots of accidents there. The roundabouts at 44 near the river and Walmart in Woodland work because they have limited access to the side streets. I don't think it will work at Kepler and 44 any better than at Orange Camp. Thank you. 
 
(Applause) 
 
JEFFREY S. BROWER: 
Margaret (unknown name). 
 
SPEAKER: 
Thank you, my name is Marguerite (unknown name) I live at 542 W. Florence in Deland, Volusia County is thinking 2050, and I commend all of you for that. And one of the great principles of future thinking is multimodal intermodal transportation. That means protecting people that are traveling and other modes outside of personal vehicles. 
 
At the heart of the 2020 vision are two things. A regional trail system, and a sun rail. And those two things are going to future proof into 2050. We have a master plan developed by our own Tim Bailey and in its an excellent plan, it shows clearly that one of the main pillars is the St. John's Florida Ted (unknown name) Sun Trail that forms a U-shaped around Volusia County and in addition to that there is what we call spine routes accounts for active transportation across the Eastern and Western bands of that, and one of those is route 44. 
 
We just heard tonight that we are going to be diverting traffic from Route 44 onto Berisford Avenue, we've been saying for years that (unknown name) was a better route for separated trail and now it's clear that it's going to be the primary route, because New York, 44, is very hard in the area, urban area. We may never get to separated trail there, so we have to focus on (unknown name) Road, for a separated trail, and I'm calling on each of you to follow through and future proof our county by making sure that we do have a 12 foot wide separated trail from the sun rail station through the city of Deland and, some way, to New Smyrna Beach. I leave it up to you whether that should go better along Highway 44, or along Berisford Avenue. 
 
One way or another we need that separated trail. Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S. BROWER: 
Thank you, John Nicholson? 
 
SPEAKER: 
John Nicholson, Daytona Beach. A lot has been said about the traffic, a lot has been said about the roundabout, I oppose the roundabout in my city, because it was on letter A1 a and ISBN with the traffic stopping at the beach it would back up into the intersection. 
 
There was also roundabout when my mother was ill and I spent seven years in Miami, that I would go through the roundabout and because there was a traffic light a block away it always backed up. Alright? Daytona beach we had Seabreeze, you'd go over the bridge and stopped at especially if tourists were there, they didn't know what to do. There was only one lane, so they could either go straight or make a right and they wanted to go straight, but they didn't want to go into the intersection. It was really a mess. 
 
Small roundabouts work in small areas. Large roundabouts work in large areas, although I'm not comfortable in the roundabouts outside of the Vatican, when you go there, it's just like, those Italians don't how to drive. In Boston, they don't know how to drive. Only people in Daytona Beach know how to drive. But roundabouts work for everybody else, so if it works for everybody else it'll work here. If you look at the system is large enough to get two cars going at the same time. You got one down the street at Walmart. How many accidents do you have it that roundabout? Virtually none. They redid Oak Ridge, next to my house, and every month, maybe twice a month, there's a traffic accident, on this nicely done road, which is a straight lane, and for nobody to get hit. They get hit all the time. 
 
So I don't expect the roundabout to be a problem. 
 
Lastly, Daytona Beach problem, we have communities and single-family homes everywhere, alright? And the prices are going crazy. See Margaritaville? It started out $250,000. That was a couple years ago. Now you can't touch it for $600,000. That's not affordable. 
 
So when you keep saying, well let's keep the single-family, let's keep this single-family… You're only screwing yourself. Because the neighborhood, prices will go up with single families. You have to have multiple families, because people have children. They will eventually leave the house, and they need a place to stay. And starter homes at half a million or three quarter of $1 million, is not feasible, for somebody 20 years old. So I'm asking you to look holistically to the future because this community needs it, and what Daytona Beach should've done. This community needs it. Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S. BROWER: 
Mark, would you like to take some time to respond? 
 
MARK WATTS: 
Thank you Mr Chair, just a couple. We obviously heard a lot of discussion about traffic, we have an engineer here with us who is our traffic engineer with Luke Transportation to address any questions that you might want to hear with regards to traffic and how the analysis is done and how we move on from here. But I do want to address a couple of the very specific things. 
 
Ms Cook asked about when we had meetings, when we reached out, your code doesn't require us to do things like member meetings and everything else. But we did send out notices to every home in a standard distance from the property inviting everybody to a neighborhood meeting, we posted that on the sand board (indiscernible) just to try and provide that information in addition to that we had additional meetings with the Lake (unknown name) Association beginning probably back in 2019 with the initial beginning of this project. We've had multiple follow-up meetings with them as the project is changed, we met with Miss (unknown name), Miss (unknown name) is a area resident, we met with Ken (unknown name) most recently. He was the guy who showed up on channel 2 before the PLDRC hearing, we said let's sit down and make sure you understand, because one of the specific issues was traffic. We wanted to make sure that he was aware, Ken's a great guy, he's on the planning board for the city of Deland, he understands the planning process, it made a lot of sense once we said here's the things that are happening and improvements that are underway. 
 
With regard to the general traffic, Joe, I… I almost said we put graphics up. I get to that in a second. We… (Laughs) We've had a lot of conversations office the back-and-forth about traffic, and were not done having conversations about traffic, as I said in the interim, or in the initial presentation, we know that had I been here five years ago before the roundabout was funded or the other improvements were coming out of the ground as we speak, there would've been more to the order of traffic as it's it's now the infrastructure that we need is underway. It is funded, it is moving forward with construction. 
 
In addition to that, we are continuing to look at traffic. So Joe, I don't know if you can give a 30 second synopsis of what you have to do moving forward with regard to the analysis of the traffic for concurrency, but can you talk briefly about what's in your package, what you're looking at with regards to the existing vested stuff, you know, that you have to count the background, and how you proceed forward. 
 
SPEAKER: 
A well, Joe (unknown name) with the director of transportation planning with Luke Transportation. 29 E. Pine Street, Orlando, Florida. 
 
I'm transportation planner, one key thing to remember about the traffic is there is an existing development on the site and we have to use what is known to transportation engineers (unknown term) report which has got like 1500 different uses and there, and we use that as a basis to come up with trip generation. So based on the existing land uses, it's approximately 2100 existing daily trips and the thing about daily trips is you have to remember those are two way trips. That means there's basically 1500 trips going in 1500 trips going out, so when we talk about 13,000 trips, half of that is going in half of that is going out. 
 
Another thing to think about as you have the existing 13,000 trips, we are proposing to have 13,000, so automatically of that 13,000, because we are looking at new development that would go in, part of that replaces the existing convenience store. So you subtract out those existing trips from this 13,000. 
 
So the other thing is, Margaret talked about internal capture, those people who are on site and go in between, they don't leave the road, leave the site, they don't get on an external roadway. So when you subtract out those, and also passerby's because people, you know, you're going down the street and say you want some coffee, there's a Starbucks, you stop in there, you go on your way. That's it passerby trip, you subtract those. The county has standards we have to follow when we do our study which say you can only Kent -- Your internal Trip 20% please a procedure that's developed by the (indiscernible) that calculates internal capture and it gave me at higher number than that but I kept my internal capture at 20% because that the County guideline. Same thing with pass by. It also says that your past by trips should never exit -- exceed 14% of adjacent traffic, so there's two streets year, Learned 44 are the adjacent streets, a weekend captive at that. 
 
So we've artificially reduced our internal capture and reduced our pass by, and that's how we ended up with 5900 basically 6000 new trips. 
 
That represents the actual net increase that will occur within this development. Not to 13,000, it's actually just five, 6000 daily trips, and of those 6000 were also going to have to subtract the existing net new trips, the same thing with existing. And the existing development there is no internal because it didn't have that, but it did have high pass by. So when you adjust for those trips, and it ended up being a little over 700 trips. 
 
So we reduce our 6000 down, and reality we are only looking at, what is our number? 5215 daily trips and again that's divided in half because half of them are coming in half of them are going out. So we need to keep that in mind when we think about the net impact on the surrounding area. And in terms of dealing with the county, and the county is currently under review, they agree with our trip generation table, when I was looking at projecting traffic for this intersection I was using the DOT's projections for the roundabouts and interpolated between their 2040 and our existing counts we had done to come up with background traffic for this development, which also included a bunch of other developments that DOT had assumed as a part of their projected traffic because they do projected traffic for 2040, so that's what we used for the projecting because the process is slightly different in terms of background traffic than what they currently apply like using historical growth, so we just fine-tuned that, and that's why it's still under review. 
 
So if you have any other questions, I'd be happy to… 
 
MARK WATTS: 
Don't go too far. 
 
So in regards to traffic I just want to point out again, it's a big number when you look at it, but it's a lot more to that with how the analysis is done, and again we aren't asking to put shovels in the ground tomorrow with your decision here this evening, we are asking to continue the planning process and move into the technical part where we finalize that TIA finalize the results from that so we can continue to add to the network and service part of the community. 
 
Last comment I wanted to make, there was a gentleman that spoke, Mr Shepherd woke about the watershed studies. Obviously we know that's important, we know that Hawk Creek, the entire reason this site was redesigned was to preserve that floodway and slew that runs up along the west side, so if you know where this site is, immediately on the west side of this light is the easement that runs up to the north, and that sort of axes the channel, that's the western edge of that channel. That conservation area that we are preserving is kind of the eastern edge, the western edges that, where that easement runs, and that runs up to hammock Lake and the chain of lakes running north to Miller Lake and 92 along the airport into land. 
 
So we are extraordinarily cognizant of it, your staff is protected that specifically as we went through this process and that's what led to the redesign and the project that you have in front of you today. So with regard to architecture. Thanks for gesturing. This grocer, one of the things I think what is interesting about this one is it has the mezzanine inside. If you have been a whole foods, with the deli and you can sit in the balcony that gives you a place to sit within the store and looked down and kind of see the rest of the store, that is one of the features with regard to this particular prototype and floor plan. We are happy to include architecture as an exhibit if you would like to add that. This is the building design we are currently working with. 
 
So, happy to take in feedback on that and again, that has not come up at any point prior to this point in the discussion, so we are happy to address it if you would like to. 
 
(Multiple speakers) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
You can fill out another form but you cannot just speak from the audience, I am sorry. We have to have some order in the room. 
 
MARK WATTS: 
I'm happy to answer any other questions that you have and we are happy to work within your process and I think if you look at the long-term planning in this area, this is specifically what is been called for since at least the 2009 2050 plan was put together and we are working within the plans for infrastructure that have been a long time in coming for this part of the city. So. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
It looks like you have some questions and actually I don't know if these are all questions, Matt Reinhart? 
 
MATT REINHART: 
The roundabout issue because, just so we're clear, I heard some issues raised by the citizens, that is not a County project, that is an F DOT project. I want to clarify that. That is not something we are planning. That is something already in the works. 
 
And if this development did not go through, was there any other talk about what else they could do that property? 
 
MARK WATTS: 
It is urban low intensity, and that allows into your comprehensive plan, 4 acres of development is a maximum per acre plus some neighborhood commercial, I think it is 5 to 8000 ft.² – something in the range. That is why you have reconstructed convenience store at that location. 
 
The property is not without entitlement so, and I think you are one of the speakers who said it, do you want to keep doing single-family spreading out everywhere? Or do you want to do the things that are contemplating… 
 
MATT REINHART: 
FDOT's talk between the roundabout, you are talking with the development, we have our plans for Beresford, the developers have plans for Beresford, I noticed that some respected beers for it had a timeline. I get that. But what we don't know was if the timeline was for the roundabout, the store reconstruction, if this development was to go through for that? So, I understand about the trips. I totally understand that. 
 
And I know that the construction, the trips are short-lived, but that comes into play that hinders traffic as well. 
 
MARK WATTS: 
Let me address the DOT timing on the roundabout. They have a published construction schedule with regard to the roundabout. They are giving the green light on February 28 – next week. They are showing that they are going to be mobilizing in March and starting to move forward, I believe the construction finishes up sometime around December or January and they are scheduled to do their final right-of-way surveys for their as built in June 2025 if I remember that schedule correctly. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
OK. 
 
MARK WATTS: 
And with the development of this site, if we move through the rezoning process - that would take the remaining part of this year. That means through 2024, we would be working on permitting and you would likely not see construction activity beginning until the first quarter of 2025. Right about the time the roundabout is finishing is when you would see this site begin to develop. And it would take about nine, 10, 11 months to build the site. 
 
So you're looking at the fourth quarter of 2025 or beginning of 2026 which also corresponds with your timing for the completion of that last leg of Beresford. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman, Dempsey? 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
Congratulations on learning how to use a drone. Maybe you could teach me someday! In the drone footage you showed there was a lot of undeveloped subdivisions. I go down that road all the time and both on the east and west sides, there is massive subdivisions coming in that are just now breaking ground. 
 
Does your traffic study account for those houses once they get their CO's? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Yes, sir we did. We have to submit the methodology and as part of that, when I was looking at using the DOT volumes for the roundabout, I also looked at what they had used in developing their background traffic from 2040 and it did include a number of developments like (unknown name) – I don't know all the names. 
 
But there are number of other developments that were occurring right at the center section, because they're also building in a development at this intersection. Not necessarily this one but they put commercial there. When they were looking at their volumes I backed out the commercial that they had so I could overlay this development back into the traffic study that I was doing. 
 
But as I said, they had a number of other developments within the area and they actually looked at – for the Beresford extension, they looked at it for different weights. One? The assumption it did not go in. One was the assumption that only the west leg went in tween Blue Lake and Martin Luther King. And the third one was if the east section went in, but not the West. That would be for Martin Luther to summit. 
 
And then they also look at the full scenario. And when we did our methodology with the County, at the time, the funding was still out there or – it was unknown because as part of our study, we can only assume something that is been programmed and funded within the next three years. If there is a plan development that is five years out and everyone is sure it will be developed, we cannot assume that in our project or our analysis for background because we do not know in the last two years, the funding could be pulled. 
 
Normally within the first three years, if the funding is there it gets constructed. So for my analysis, I only had Beresford in between Blue Lake and Martin Luther King for my analysis to determine when we ran the model for this development. 
 
DOT, when they did their analysis, they had 44 ones and they went back through and looked at how they wanted to do their numbers. That actually designed traffic for each of those scenarios. So, when I looked at my analysis, I would use the projected values for the 2040 for the extension of only up to Martin Luther King between Blue Lake. Because that is all I could assume in my development. That is how we modeled it. 
 
And so, I am making a long story longer. 
 
(Laughter) 
 
SPEAKER: 
That will answer your question. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
Curiosity sake, is that Beresford and other roundabout? Who has control that? DOT or the County? 
 
MARK WATTS: 
I know what is happening at one of those intersections specifically because it is constructed. The intersection at MLK and Beresford was already built. Now, it has improvements to be reconstructed as we do the extensions, that is an intersection. Not a roundabout. That is not what is planned there at this point in time. 
 
Where Beresford intersects with Blue Lake, I believe the County plan – the section the county's building, that leg that I think… That me see. And what you are shown earlier today, let me give you the phase or section number it was referred to. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
I think the most import one is Templer and Beresford. 
 
MARK WATTS: 
The intersection of Blue Lake is roundabout, the intersection at Templer and Beresford is an intersection – four-lane intersection. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
Lighted or stop signs? 
 
MARK WATTS: 
It depends on the value. Those are both your roads. So you would decide that. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
I have one more question of Clay? Do we have any idea how many permitted houses are being built right now as we speak or – developed in that area light, all down Kepler? It seems like a lot of construction that we don't know how that is all going to play out. 
 
SPEAKER: 
We have been in communications with the city of Deland and has been approved for the (unknown name) project, which is on the east side of Kepler on the side of 44 on the east side of (Away from mic) that is a retirement community coming online. 
 
Plus as you saw, could we go back to that image that showed… Mark's presentation. There's a series in the slideshow that shows the development and intensity of those residential development going on. Those have already been approved by the city of Deland. They are part of the prop fair share. 
 
If I can… 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
The red dots, are you? And you are including the new developments down Kepler as well? Even south of Orange Camp? 
 
SPEAKER: 
There's a reserve of Victoria, those are all projects – well. Could you go back one? There you go. There it is. So, Mark has already provided you with the background information. These are projects that are approved, some in process of being developed, some are still awaiting to be developed. 
 
You have crosswind which is 900, seven house 300 units, Lakewood Park, 434, Victoria reserve, Trinity Gardens, well – they are not necessarily directly on it but those are nearby. But the four there that I referenced are the ones that are going to be improved. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
Did you say those were all approved by the city of Deland? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Yes. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
OK. So we are talking about maybe 1500 new residents that are going to be coming up in this area? 
 
MARK WATTS: 
It is about 2500 when you look at all the houses that it been developed or that are approved or under construction here. So, somewhere in the 2000 2500. 
 
Of the ones you see here, the only one that is not currently under construction is the summit placed townhomes, the 300 units down off of Summit. That is going through preliminary planning with the city of Deland. 
 
As I mentioned, when we talk about the planning tool, you know, these are all within the areas designated as areas for increased growth and develop within the 2050 plan – with the exception of crest wind which is to keep the existing intensities in place, which is what we did. It was approved and 96 at a density consistent with the ones being developed at town – so they decrease to be kept level. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
Thank you guys, appreciate it. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Mark, I have two concerns and I will only deal with one of them now and will wait until the Council begins the debate but for traffic, the video that you showed was from FDOT? And was that supposed to show the current level of traffic at p.m. and a.m.? 
 
MARK WATTS: 
No, that was shown at the public hearing at the roundabout project that was in August 2020 if I remember correctly. They had another in 2021. The video shows the level of traffic based on their 2040 projection going through that intersection without improvement. Not today's traffic, it is a 2040 projection at peak hour and that is what they base their animation on. 
 
That is not my words, I went through their materials and confirmed that that is the volume that was modeled with the animation. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
I'm surprised? Frankly, it defies credulity to me because I've never seen that few cars right now in the a.m. or the p.m.. 
 
SPEAKER: 
There 2040 was also based on the assumption of the roadway network and what it would look like in 2040, which includes not only what is funded, but also cost feasible. So, when they do a 2040 analysis, you look at OK, maybe 1792 is 16 all the way or Kepler's four laned all the way up. All of those things are built into the model when they're coming up with their projections for 2040 because that is the nature of how they do the future modeling. 
 
Because I also looked and said, what elements are we expecting to be in place within the area for 2040? And again, they have grown all of the S and E data out that timeframe. So all that goes into play. And that is why, the traffic is redistributed all through the network and new roads may have come online.  
 
JEFFREY S. BROWER: 
Can you give him a mic? You live in Orlando? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Yes. 
 
JEFFREY S. BROWER: 
You spent some time here, apparently, on that intersection. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Cresent Win was-  
 
MARK WATTS: 
Under construction, currently. 
 
JEFFREY S. BROWER: 
So you're telling me that FDOT study, where they derived that video from-- 
 
MARK WATTS: 
Let me clarify with one regard to that. That video was used at their 2020 public hearing about roundabout design. Since that time there's been additional projects that have been approved, those projects are now in what DOT is finalizing their design and is moving forward with construction of it. 
 
All of those projects, in addition, have to be in our TIA, which, we have another model, we have another video that shows ours traffic study, but it's under review by your staff still, so we couldn't present it and say this is something that has been approved by your staff so we could include it in our presentation tonight, but that analysis and needed additional analysis that's ongoing from this point and is the analysis that leads to what additional funding has to be provided into the road network for additional improvements beyond the roundabout (Away from mic) 
 
So that's an ongoing process. 
 
All those other projects have to be included in the background. That's your requirement. 
 
JEFFREY S. BROWER: 
You don't have to walk up, you can shake yes or no and I'll tell the audience what you are… On the MLK and Beresford, Don asked about it, it's not been determined yet if that's a stop sign or traffic light? 
 
You can't do it with a yes or no? OK. While you answer that, I believe he said that would be a Council decision? 
 
TAD KASBEER: 
Well actually, Tad Kasbeer, county engineer, again. With regard to the intersection based on what the model for the projection, we have to justify putting in a signal we can't willy-nilly decide what we want to do there. Requirements for meeting a need for a signal. So, we do expect, we have done an analysis at that intersection previously, at different levels, depending on the developments that have occurred to the east and west, and once this last section of Beresford connects up to 44, we are comfortable a signal won't be warranted. We do plan to be putting one in as a part of that last project. 
 
That's already part of the plan. We didn't specifically (Away from mic) 
 
JEFFREY S. BROWER: 
Thank you I appreciate it. 
 
I don't see any other questions. 
 
MARK WATTS: 
Again, we appreciate your time this evening, we know, again, my traffic title on that slide was, "traffic traffic traffic." We know that's the drumbeat of the issue out here. But in addition to the road improvements that are under construction and underway now and the ones moving forward with this particular project, I think one of the most vital things to keep in mind is looking back to the philosophy that the land is trying to follow, and yes this is still a decision that's coming to you because it's not contiguous. It's in the Deland utility service area, it's serviced by Deland utilities, if we were adjacent this would be a cancel hearing that we would be having in front of that Deland city commission. We've had plenty of those as well. (Laughs) But I think the key is that there following a plan in regard to how to diversify their land uses to serve the residential development that is occurring. I think more communities would be well served if they looked at things this way.  
 
So, we are asking you, because it's in your jurisdiction still, to approve the land-use amendment so we can move to the next step of the analysis and keep working with your staff and city with regard to the developed of the road program. So I'm happy to answer any of the questions you might have. 
 
JEFFREY S. BROWER: 
That did create one more. Mr Santiago asked about the graphics for the shopping center. You – the 100 townhouses, that's going in the far north quadrant? 
 
MARK WATTS: 
That's correct. 
 
JEFFREY S. BROWER: 
But, you don't know where yet? 
 
MARK WATTS: 
Well, we do. It's labeled. Let me get back to the slide. 
 
It doesn't like this because we embedded that video into the presentation so it chokes when it gets to that point. 
 
OK, so, if you go back to this slide. The white area. So, the area of urban high-intensity, the residential land use application applies to, is the white and green area. So, what we did is instead of trying to develop any of the green area since we know that's an area that's important for preservation of the watershed, we effectively clustered any development that's occurring from a residential standpoint of the white area care. It's limited to, this is the exhibit from your POD, so the residential would be limited to that, and basically it provides a transitional, so again you've got a shopping center that would be going around the corner. 
 
You need some thing to transfer the density back to the church that's on the left or the subdivisions (indiscernible). We hear concerns about higher intensity not being wise there so we revised (indiscernible) but to give you an idea of the scale. 
 
We've got a site that's overrun like 15 A, underdevelopment now, another planned by the city of Deland, it's 7.8 acres if I remember correctly and it's being developed (indiscernible) so that is an appropriate kind of fit for that type of, the size of property, it's actually kind of large for that number of units, but it will give us the opportunity to provide amendments and things. 
 
JEFFREY S. BROWER: 
What is the size? 
 
MARK WATTS: 
Is about 7.8 acres right across the street from Brian's Barbecue right on (indiscernible) 
 
I know these are hard decisions to make, but planning often is. 
 
JEFFREY S. BROWER: 
Thank you, vice chair Kent? 
 
TROY KENT: 
Thank you, so I'm gonna start with what I like about what I just heard. 
 
What I like is the retail/shopping center. That will keep people from traveling all over Deland to go get their shopping done.  
 
For my next comments counsel and residents, and I can be brutally brought and honest with you. I was born in Halifax Hospital I've lived Norman Beachside my entire life. My first time in these chambers is when I was sworn in. Staff had to meet me in the parking lot and show me how to get in here. 
 
I live, like I said, Beachside Ormond. I love the bumper stickers I see that say, "don't make me cross the bridge." I tell you that because I have spent more time in your beautiful city of Deland in the past year of my life than it did the first 47 years. 
 
And this is what I have told people. About your beautiful city. Before that, just so you know, I would come over with my family to see a baseball game, we would eat at Belly Busters, and your Main Street downtown is just spectacular. It's an amazing thing you have. 
 
So, I also like to pride myself on being on time, and if I'm starting meeting like it to start on time and end on time. My GPS told me how to get here, which was (unknown term) Beach to I four, and I get off on 44. In our morning meeting starts at 9 AM. And I'm going to admit to you these are the things I say in my truck when I'm on 44 - to myself 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
There's children. 
 
TROY KENT: 
I know I can say these things. I quote, "what the what? Are you kidding me? Stop the insanity!" And I remind myself, don't make me cross the bridge. 
 
To me the most powerful impactful picture that the applicant put up there was the 2500 homes the city of Deland is approved, what the what? That's not Volusia County doing that, that's not the gentleman appear, that's not us doing that. 
 
So now you have an applicant that's gone from 240 multi-family homes down to hundred and I applaud you for that, I really do, I can't answer for the city of Deland, with why they would approve what they have aproved, but they have. 
 
I need someone to convince me tonight, in order for me to approve this and vote yes, and I've heard the traffic information, and inferred the timelines – but I cannot, in good conscience, agree with this when the guy from Beachside Ormond, drives over this meeting, and by the way when I go home it is quicker for me to go back to I-4 but I add an extra four minutes to my ride because I like going down Volusia Avenue, if you remember it was called Volusia? Or 92? Now it's International Speedway Boulevard. It allows me to see if Belly Busters is still open on my way home, my wife and I appreciate it when it still is.  
 
But someone is going to have to convince me, even though, and I applaud you for the fewer number of residences that are going to be there, how I can say yes to this, because I don't get a vote on what Deland did. I get a vote on this. And it's not fun when I get off on I-4 on State Road 44, and I literally go 1200 feet and I'm stopped in dead traffic, and what you take me 5 to 7 minutes to get here into this building, takes me, you know, 15. I'm not going to over exaggerate and say longer than that, it doubles it at least. So, I'm just gonna need some help with that otherwise it's a no. Thank you. 
 


JEFFREY S. BROWER: 
Thank you, we don't have a motion on the floor yet, and this is a tough decision. We might not get one right away. Mr Santiago, I don't know if you have a motion, or if you want to… 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I may, I have some comments first. 
 
JEFFREY S. BROWER: 
OK. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I've said similar words on that intersection. And probably a couple I can't repeat in the chambers. Or shouldn't repeat. And I understand the frustration from the public – regarding that intersection. I try to avoid it at all costs in the morning. I live in Deltona and hit the other roundabout right near the Walmart. 
 
… But on the traffic situation, well, we are going to feel the pain for a little while, that's today. So, we've heard a lot of testimony from our staff, we've heard from DOT and what they're doing. We've heard staff, in the applicant talking about proportionate fair share, the things coming forward to alleviate that pain, and I'm taking it purely from a- I don't want to say engineering perspective, but for lack of better term I'll say that, because I'm not an engineer. But the professionals that do this everyday, and I entrust our staff to analyze it in the way that I think this County Counsel would envision, so I think when it comes to the road, help is on the way. 
 
Help is on the way, and that's going to be improved. Our state folks have looked at it. And this project is going to be well utilized once it comes there. It's going to be well received once it comes there. The most impactful thing for me was when you showed the commercial on where everybody in that whole area is going, and it's causing traffic concerns on the other side of Deland, all those other roads, because I shop there too sometimes. 
 
What's also good about this project going forward as they haven't even put in their money yet, that is going to be determined in the proportionate share fair once at that TIA is done, so that is going to analyze all of the things we asked about here regarding what's already approved, future development, it's going to encapsulate the roundabout, it's going to give probably, I don't know until the studies done, but Tad is probably going to give them a sizable number saying this is what you're going to have to do to get your approval. Which is also going to be utilized to enhance that intersection. So there's going to be more work that's going to be done there eventually as a result of this project and proportionate fair share. 
 
I think the inventory of homes, I forget his name all the time, blue shirt.a.you made a good point on the inventory homes. We do need more diversity in homes. I was not for this project in its original proposal, I had concerns. In its original proposal. And the changes that the applicant is made with of the 100 townhomes a significantly reduced it, they are townhomes, so now it's simple, people have skin in the game for their investments. And it allows a more affordable price point for entry homes were someone wants to live there forever, whatever they choose. So it diversifies our inventory of homes which is good for our economy. And as I said, the commercial project is needed. That is desperately needed in this area. You know, I reflect back on other subdivisions in the area, I don't know where most of you folks live, but I did hear someone lived in Victoria, one of the Victoria projects – and you know, when the Victoria project was getting ready to be built there were people here saying they don't want that project. It's too big, it's this and that, and before you bought your house some of you there were similar people here doing the same thing. And our job is the councils to look at the big picture. 
 
I think the lady said we need to look at 2040, 2050, how things are gonna move forward, and people want to come to Florida. People are multiplying, kids are being born here, we want our kids to come back and live here. So those things will appreciate later on in the future, we have to sometimes make those tough decisions that you don't want in your backyard, or you don't want an extra few minutes on the road, but I'll wrap up with this. I think help is on the way, with the road project, I think when it's all said and done you're gonna love the beautiful project built there, working to make sure it's pitiful if it gets past, and I think the road enhancements would certainly alleviate all your stuff. I feel your pain today, I suffered it, but I think we can't hold this project accountable because of what today's standard is, we have to account for everything. And the last thing I'll say Mr chair, if we didn't approve the residential thing that could be another single-family residential subdivision in the future. Which, we would probably rather have a more diversified product. Thank you Mr chair.  
 
I moved to approve item number four on the agenda, Mr. chair. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Second. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Does that include site-specific restriction that limits hundred dwelling units? – Townhomes. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Amended if my second takes that. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
We have a motion to approve by chairman Santiago into second by Councilman Robbins. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
I don't know if this is approved for south of (unknown name) Road. 
 
Mark, I have to compliment you. He worked like a running mule to get this project through and I know he did his homework, I know he talked to all the neighbors. And I know he was persistent in the conversations and giving me the data. 
 
I am concerned, I share Troy's concern. I hope you're not cussing at my law office signs on the way over here. (Laughs) 
 
(Laughter) 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
But, we have 2800 houses here that we do not even know how that will impact the intersection. We have, I think that's is a huge up apartment on Kepler andCasadega Road. 
 
There is another project that is been approved by the land near blue Lake that is not on here that I believe is in the pipes. 
 
I do traffic tickets, I cannot tell you how many people recently have been getting fender bender's and I call them the fender bender or the lands version of the autobahn. There seems to be no rhyme or reason and I get the benefit of representing people who get these tickets and it seems like the police officers don't even know what the proper protocol is. You just have to go in there and just (Laughs) Watch out. 
 
You know, I just wish this was two years into the future. I wish we could see all these new homes in place? Do our traffic studies then and wait until the Beresford extension comes in because I do think that will be a big help. 
 
And I think I read between the lies with you, Mr. Kent, that this is the land. The land is allowing all this development to happen so quickly. I think we all campaigned on the idea of responsible growth. And what has happened here, just from, my limited knowledge. But, it seems like the land has allowed all of the subdivisions to come up. 
 
I remember in the 1900s when Kepler did not even exist. And it was not there. And all of the subdivisions, all of this got high density development, and it has just – it has come about in the last 20 years, I would say. It is growing and growing fast. 
 
To sit here and say that we will put a blender in the middle of all of this, and expect that to cure everything? I don't know if that is the answer. I would rather let the lands new development come to fruition and then see what happens from there. 
 
Some of you that spoke today in opposition of this, I would hope you go a couple blocks down and tell them your feelings all this rapid develop meant that we are getting over here, because we cannot stop them. I think David actually mentioned it, Troy said. This is out of our hands. We were not the ones here debating on whether we would have these subdivisions coming down template. That is onto land through annexation. So now we have to deal with – I consider actually, I blamed land for it. They annexed all the stuff in and I think Mark even said, he would annex it if you could because – they are, in my opinion, liberal on a lot of stuff to come in. 
 
Mark, I commend your efforts and I know the Ford family – I've worked with Fords and they are wonderful people. I hate to be the bad guy in your eyes because I know how hard you have worked and I respect your firm. I really respect the Ford family, but there has been so much outcry and I just – I cannot see this being a good fit right now. I know you waited five years. If we could wait another two years? And just see how all of this stuff pans out, let the Beresford extension – if it is done in time – let it be done. And let us come back to this and reevaluate. We do need the shopping center. We need a grocery store, it is all needed. 
 
But it is like but their somewhat popping up in all of the stars appear, we don't even know how that will come into play. I think that is premature to add to it and expect just around about to be the cure. So I am in Troy's position, I am against it. I don't cuss when I drive through delay unnecessarily. (Laughs) But, I share the frustration that Mr. Kent has. So, thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you, thank you Don. I agree with what you said except for one thing. 
 
I like roundabouts but my wife is from Boston and they are everywhere. They are the most aggressive drivers in the world, and almost every other person is in a Rolls-Royce, Cadillac or a Bentley, and I don't understand it. 
 
I… Mark, this is a much – where did he go? A much improved project then what Nikko was handed five years ago. But I agree with Don. I don't think it is there yet. 
 
So, I want to make some suggestions. I cannot vote for this today. Two reasons. One, the traffic. We all look at the stars and we are talking about the 2040 video that shows less traffic than we have today. That's because the improved road network – I am sorry. I don't see it. I sit on DPO. Where are those roads coming from? Where is the money coming from? I just do not see it. I am in Don's court. I think we wait a couple of years and see how the traffic – how it is. 
 
This is the worst intersection in Deland. It's horrible. And they keep adding more and more, 300 homes here, 600 there, without the roads? The residents are sick of it. And they are all screaming, what happened to the small town feel of Deland? It's not there anymore. Because the traffic is so bad. The traffic is a big one for me. 
 
The other one, all of these developments that were mentioned – that were already in the Victoria developments, the Sawyers landing, with every one of those we are getting incredible flooding in surrounding neighborhoods. And I look at this and I see that the water is going to – I mean – this was mostly agricultural land. Land that accepted that water. It permeated through the ground. 
 
Now, not all that, you have done a good job of setting land aside, but there is a lot of paved land there and all of that runoff is going to go into the, into the wetland system there. And end up in Lake Hamilton. 
 
And that will go from there to blue Lake, and then Southlake Township, and then Northlake, and then Miller Lake, and trying to get under 92 to get into little Hall Creek. And it is not happening now. We have residents along those lakes, especially on Laketown edge that are losing property every year. They lose more property every year, because the canals are not adequate between those lakes to conduct the flow. 
 
And when you get to the long canal between Northlake – Laketown which and Miller light, it is a cesspool of silt and sediment built up that does not let it flow. So there's homes along there that have built sea walls that are now crumbling. 
 
The residents are watching the water inch closer and closer to their homes. And we are gonna put more water there. I cannot in good conscience say that that is going to solve – that will not make the problem even worse. We will create more and more flooding. 
 
I have tried for three years to get the state of Florida to take responsibility for cleaning out that canal. The county has offered to go and clean out the canal. We just have to get paid because it is a huge job. We had aquaculture come up and they looked at the canal and said, "we can pump all of that sediment out. We can spray it on the surrounding pastures that –" I think the Ford zone. We can grow hey there. But nobody will take responsibility for it to pay for. 
 
And every one of the canals for all of the other adjoining lakes as well. They all need to be widened. They all need to be deeper. They all need to be improved. 
 
If you could include that in this project? If you could get help with that? If you could get the state to say, "OK. We will pay for it." If you pay for it! 
 
I cannot approve another project that I believe will flood out more neighborhoods in Deland. It is a bridge too far for me. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Mr. Irving, Clay, if I could bend your ear a little bit. For the record? Could you define responsible growth and some of the elements of responsible growth that we use as a standard in the county in the state? 
 
CLAY IRVING: 
That is a very broad question. We have the criteria in our comprehensive plan in regards to the review of the const brands of plan and amendments. We also have the focus that was Aries on the focus by the environmental communities overlay. 
 
Basically, it is ensuring that we have compact urban growth can utilize the exhausting – or protect the natural resources and ensure that we put new development where there is utilities and where there is infrastructure to support it. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
You are one of the few people here that is qualified to make these sort of statements and not opinions. 
 
Would you classify a project like this – not saying I agree with it or not – as responsible growth? I asked some questions earlier and that was what I was getting at, was the elements of this project when compared to responsible growth. Are you able to answer that? 
 
SPEAKER: 
(unknown name) and I have recommended -- we would not done if it was in line with our policies with where we go forward with the County. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
In short answer, yes? 
 
Moving on. If we deny this, what can the applicant legally come back with? Is it more density – what I'm trying to avoid is another to mocha Oaks scenario where they were at the table for a long time – if it is the right one I'm thinking about. And then they come back, they reduced it and it came back after all energy was expended and there was no give or take and they came back with the maximum. Is that an accurate summary of that situation?  
 
CLAY IRVING: 
Right now the designation is urban low intensity so the Max mode before units per acre. We have roughly 40 acres so it would be 160 residential units. 
 
They could request a street zoning to our fee or are for and they could come back with APD to come in with alternatives like configurations or something unique from that perspective. But the theoretical whole maximum is 160 units. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Compared to the 100 that they brought it down to? 
 
(Multiple speakers) 
 
CLAY IRVING: 
You have to include the commercial development. They have the shopping center and all of that. So, it is an intensification over the existing land use. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
With the daily trips equate to the same amount as the proposed or more? Do you know, roughly? From your training and experience? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Residential – single-family residential typically has 10 trips per day. So would be roughly 160 – roughly 1600 trips as opposed to the 1300. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
And… OK. Thank you. That is it for now.  
 
JEFFREY S. BROWER: 
Jake Johansson? 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
This seems to kind of have a smell of low impact development, kind of, higher density than single-family homes, walkable community, kind of a cluster if you will – I understand the traffic piece. I'm with Troy and everybody else, that road - there's times you come in for a Council meeting and there's times you don't. But isn't this kind of the goal of what we have all kind of espoused with this new low impact development, not from a stormwater retention or retention piece but from a clustering peace? The bigger picture? So yes please, answer. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Just to clarify, low impact development is pertaining to a method of addressing stormwater and reducing footprint. More towards what Mr Robbins is saying, where you cluster and have residential at higher densities rather than sprawling it out, in close proximity, so that you can walk, are within walking distance of commercial areas. Also this is being placed in an area where, as the image on the screen points out, and I think this is the driving force behind what staff was saying, is that this provides an opportunity to provide an alternative commercial location for residential development that's already been approved. 
 
Therefore instead of having traveling to these other locations, they would be brought in and have shorter distances over local roads to this facility. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Did we, yeah I got it. So we are lessening the traffic impact on other areas by allowing these folks out east to have a place to shop, basically, right? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Yes, sir. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
I concur with most of my colleagues here, this is going to be a tough one. Thank you very much. 
 
JEFFREY S. BROWER: 
David Santiago? 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Think chair, I want to clarify, I don't know if Clay wants to take a shot at this, I know you've been in the hot seat. I heard the word flooding from one of my colleagues, I think he said he doesn't want to flood the rest of the residents I guess down the topography… With this project be designed in a method that we know would allow flooding to occur? 
 
SPEAKER: 
 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Hold on the chair is laughing and we are on TV so I want to make clear, I wasn't aware you were an expert on the subject 
 
(Multiple speakers) 
 
JEFFREY S. BROWER: 
I did, are you saying they defined it to flood? No, they did not, but it still floods. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
You're insinuating 
 
JEFFREY S. BROWER: 
I'm not insinuating. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
You said it! He said you don't want to let it happen, say but the Council and the rest of the perspective, that if the going to vote for this that you're saying we are going to make everything else flood. So, your comments have to be clarified by people who are experts that know more about this than any of us. 
 
JEFFREY S. BROWER: 
The experts that gave us all the flooding. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
There we go, that's what were dealing with. So, Mr Clay, I'm sorry to put you on the spot, but I think the councilmembers considering this project need some clarity on the design aspects that are going to be applied if this is approved. Will it be done to latest engineering designs that would not allow the rest of the residence to flood as the chairman describes? 
 
SPEAKER: 
We have in our code minimum requirements for stormwater management. It addresses a 25 year 24-hour storm event. That's what it's designed to. 
 
There are concerns, basically upstream, because this is feeding up into the chain of lakes that you hear discussed there. So, there has been concerns identified because of the recent rainfall we had, we are seeing flooding across the entire county because of the extremely high groundwater table. 
 
As I've said, we designed to a 25 year storm event. If we have something more than a 25 year storm event we cannot speak to what will happen at that point. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
So pretty much standard across most fitness polities are governance is? Is that fair? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Yes sir. That's typical of what you see in Volusia County and cities in Volusia County and St. John's Water Management District. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I don't just wrap for now with this. I would not of made the, to clarify this, had you not put it in the context that would demonize or make the rest of the councilmembers look bad… I respect your opinion. But it's in the context as you put it, puts members of this council in a difficult spot. I respect your opinion, just choice of words required me to do that. 
 
JEFFREY S. BROWER: 
I understand you might feel demonized by it, but what I said was that there's already flooding on this chain of lakes. You can deny it, but it's there. You don't live there. Gerald (unknown name)'s seawall is falling into the lake. Everyone of the residents of their have encouraged water on their property. Sawyer's Landing was designed to not flood the neighborhoods, and JC's property has been flooded since the day they built it. That was the experts that followed the law and followed all the storm orders, and it's flooding, not just a little bit, but it's ruined his property, it's going uphill, and ruining all the properties around it. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Mr Chairman 
 
JEFFREY S. BROWER: 
Victoria Oaks, is causing flooding, go down Taylor Avenue look at the farm there. 
 
(Applause) 
 
JEFFREY S. BROWER: 
It's out of business because it's flooded, out of order. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Mr Chairman can we get order, please? Or not. You do you. 
 
JEFFREY S. BROWER: 
I'm sorry I've got time to talk. So that's why I bring flooding, because it's a serious problem, and you can smirk and say, "we have nothing to do with that." We have to recognize 
 
(Multiple speakers) 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I didn't say that, 
 
JEFFREY S. BROWER: 
And I'm not willing to approve this one, with all that development coming up there, and say it's not... The traffic is going to be just fine and we are not causing flooding… We already are. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
So, under your scenario you're not going to put approve anything in the future? That's what you're saying? I'm done Mr Chair. Just call… 
 
JEFFREY S. BROWER: 
Good. Thank you. 
 
Anybody else? Vice chair Kent? 
 
TROY KENT: 
Chairman. So, one of the concerns I have about this, in a way, to vote yes for it, is – I feel like if this was annexed by the city of Deland they to be approving this. I feel like because this is Volusia County before us, and this group is the last one to come forward, I feel like you get the negative effects of that because of what everybody has done around you, and I think that's unfair, in a sense, to you and your group. So, I don't like that.  
 
I like that you all didn't come in with a mind that wasn't open. You came in and are able to make changes on the fly, because you said you listened to the residence. 
 
So, I really dislike that this puts you all in that position. I think you've done a masterful job of not only trying to address the concerns of the residents, but also make changes that would benefit the area. 
 
To me it's the negative pieces, like it or not, you all are the last ones that I can see, right now, that of come forward, and your before this counsel, instead of before Deland city commission. 
 
I was counting up the numbers here, it's like 2700 homes. I'm thinking about, there's something in orbit coming down the pipe and they are talking about 3000 homes, and my constituents are already screaming and yelling about that. 
 
So again, this slide, is hugely impactful, because you had those numbers there. And you don't know what you don't know. And I'm not on the Deland city commission and I hadn't seen that until you shared in this presentation. As Jackie Gleason would say in  'Smokey and the Bandit', "it's an attention getta!"  
 
(Laughter) 
 
TROY KENT: 
Thank you for that. 
 
I just don't know that I've been convinced enough, because I am one of the guys that can say yes or no on this one. Because of what I see… Not only that I deal with twice a month, but these people deal with it every day – I listen to that woman who doesn't make a doctor's appointment before 9:30 AM, I believe you wholeheartedly, ma'am. I believe wholeheartedly she doesn't make a doctor's appointment before the time because the nonsense that she has to deal with. 
 
So, I'm on the fence a little bit still actually, gentlemen. 
 
JEFFREY S. BROWER: 
Danny Robins? 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Thank you Mr Chair. Going through this and hearing all the testimony, I still go back to addressing the concerns of the public and surrounding area and making sure that we, while going through this, are complying with all of the standards. I'm going to fall back on a couple things we already talked about, and summarizes again. 
 
The traffic concerns are being handled as we speak. The biggest thing here is that it's funded, it's not in the wish list or in the wind, it's funded. There's reduced density, reduced trips, reduced delays, they forecasted this out to 2040. The wetlands will be protected and not paved over, which we are accused of all the time. There are some LID principles involved in this which are begged for on every instance. It said that the lands future vision, it's in the service boundary, this was planned for, as unpopular as it may be, all the boxes, from what I hear, are checked. And I also don't believe that, you know, here we are five years later, and all these dots, they may happen and they may not. 
 
We've seen this flow. When it's good they happen. When there's that demand they happen. When they don't they don't. 
 
Some of these could be not developed for 20 years. 
 
They may. DOT is calculating that they are, and is preparing for that they are, but as unpopular as this may be, do we hold this applicant, or punish this applicant, for the fear of the unknown and what may or may not happen. He's giving a timeline, saying hey, it's any year. I have to take his word on it. I have to take the word of the DOT and the experts, and to get to Mr Santiago's point, I respect what he said. Because absolutely, in my opinion, correct. So you know, there's a lot of things we have to account for here, but to punish something, them, or hold them, I just – it's a tough one, but I'm not a fear guy. There's a lot of fear, and there's a lot of, kind of, opinions going around. But that's all I got.  
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Anyone else before call for the vote? OK. The vote is on item 4 – small-scale comprehensive plan use amendment of 40.22 acres including the downgrading to 100 townhomes of the previous 268? A bunch more. OK. Karissa, can you call the role? 
 
KARISSA GREEN: 
Mr. Reiner? This to Robbins? Mr. Santiago? Mr. Dempsey? Mr. Kent? 
 
TROY KENT: 
No. 
 
KARISSA GREEN: 
Mr. Brower? 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
No. But the item passes 4-3. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Item number five is the PUD. If you make the motion to approve I would recommend that it be with the changes proposed by the applicant – removing the multifamily development standards and if you want to, also including in the nonresidential architectural designs centers that the (indiscernible) decided for the development. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Santiago? 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I will move to prove – I will move to approve as described by our attorney. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Second. Approved by David Santiago and approved by Danny Robins. 
 
Any questions and debate? Carissa? 
 
KARISSA GREEN: 
Reinhart? 
 
MATT REINHART: 
Yes. 
 
KARISSA GREEN: 
Mr. Dempsey? 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
No. 
 
KARISSA GREEN: 
Mr. Kent? 
 
TROY KENT: 
No. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
No. An item passes 4-3 as well. 
 
Thank you for the public that came out, thank you. We will take a break but I will ask the Council, before we do item 7, there needs to be some change in technology for that to be built. 
 
So, let's take a break right now and allow them to do that and bring item 7 before item 6 when we come back? Does anyone have an issue with that? I have been asked to give them time to change technology for seven. 
 
Thank you. 
 
KARISSA GREEN: 
Mr. Brower, can you clarify how long the break will be? 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
I did not say. 
 
(Laughter) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Could we take a break until 8 o'clock? Is that sufficient? Shorter? We can make it shorter. You can't? OK. 
 
(Break)  
 
SPEAKER: 
Welcome to the Volusia County Council meeting. The meeting will begin in five minutes. 
 
(Music plays) 
 
SPEAKER: 
Welcome to the Volusia County Council meeting. The meeting will begin in two minutes. 
 
(Music plays) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK, Tim Baylie, we will begin the meeting with item 7, presentation by Hunden Strategic Partners on the motorcross feasibility study.  
 
TIM BAYLIE: 
this is a presentation by the Hunden Strategic Partners you have been selected to do a feasibility study on the motocross, potential motocross facility in Volusia County. (unknown name) is going to be presenting the study. She will give you a high-level summary of the conceptual plan, estimated costs, performance and economic impact of the study they have been working on for quite a bit. 
 
She is 20 go through each slide. If there is a question on a slide, it's going to be a high-level summary, feel free to stop her and ask a question, and she will go into more detail with you. With that, I would like to interest (unknown name), Hunden Strategic Partners. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Hopefully everybody can see my screen, we were engaged to look at the financial feasibility and perform a study which includes the economic, fiscal and employment analysis that will show the ultimate projected return on investment to the community in terms of jobs, new spending and tax revenues generated by the project. 
 
Getting into it, in terms of recommendations for the motocross facility, at the Tomoko farm site, two full-size competitive tracks with about 50 RV slips recommended at a minimum with additional general parking as well as supportive amenities. We did go about this in a phased approach which you will see on a few of the following slides, but in terms of a conceptual site plan for that Tomoka Farms site here, as you can see, we work with an architect based out of Kansas City, convergent designs, you will see in the next few slides here but overall concept within Port Orange and Volusia County. 
 
Phase 1, the goal is to create a critical mass in terms of development, so having enough of the components where you are able to have local utilization as well as a few tournaments, as you move forward into phase 2, or what we like to call stabilization. We will highlight that, in terms of our financials, little bit later on. 
 
Phase 1, cost including those motocross tracks, long and short. The site work, grading and drainage necessary, paved access from Tomoka Farms Road which is currently dirt and surface parking which is 250 turf grass parking spots here. Our subtotal for phase 1 is $5.7 million year as estimated by convergence design.  
 
And then looking into our phase 2 here, this provides some more amenities, especially with those 50 grass RV spaces which helps in terms of the revenue streams from – 
 
SPEAKER: 
If we can stop, to clear this up. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
If you think it will get better, there is quite an echo. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Can you hear me? 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
One second we're trying to improve audio. 
 
KARISSA GREEN: 
Lexi, if you can lower your speaker when you are talking, that is what it is. We are hearing your speaker and it is a couple second delay, so it is like you are repeating. If you turn your speaker on, and when you're done with the presentation, you can turn it back on to talk with Council.  
 
SPEAKER: 
No worries. Hopefully that is better. Let me know if it is not. 
 
In terms of our phase 2, looking at what the 50 grass RV spaces would look like, we looked at a few comparable facilities across the state of Florida. This is something that we do with a lot of our different studies, looking at what comparable facilities would look like, and what kind of visitation sets the baseline here. We had a lot of interviews with track operators and owners to really understand what this phase II would bring us to. 
 
To provide as an example, this is not an exact copy and paste and I will highlight differences here, you can see the 162 RV parking spaces being triple the amount that we are recommending at a minimum, but this really being a highly attractive tournament facility, if you will, or large event facility attracting national events and what we do is use (unknown term), data fencing that track cell phones, and this allows us with a realistic idea of what visitation would look like. 
 
This case being that more national events, you see the spike in November there, but to attract over 100,000 visits through the year is attributed to one major weekend. And looking at phase 3, this is being more so what we consider to be support amenities, so having permanent restaurants, concession buildings, pro shop or training facility, irrigated welfare track prep and 250 additional paved surface parking here for the cost of 2.3 million.  
 
Another case study here being the (unknown name) in Florida being an example of a full facility with those 50 RV parking spots, spaces, as well as the permanent buildings there that do allow for a marked full or complete facility, as such the one that we were analyzing here in the study. 
 
Again with that tracking AI data, the visitation is more consistent when we compare to Gator Black, so in terms of when we compute the financials here, which we will get into now. In terms of counsel direction or scenarios that we analyzed, and provided financials for, scenario a and scenario B, and having additional option for scenario C. 
 
Scenario A, County building County owned facility, the county really having the responsibility from a management perspective, and I will highlight the main differences in terms of our event projections as well as attendance, but this being more of a local and regional track in terms of the attraction and ability to program it. 
 
We project here about 12 events upon stabilization, and then having the motocross practice that is open to the public for about 130 days, this allows time and the ability to have track maintenance and what is considered an off period in order to get everything needed. 
 
In terms of attendance projections, in order to remain conservative we project average rider for event being about 500. The national or larger events are able to attract 1500 or 3000 riders, but to keep the average conservative to get a realistic idea of what this can attract. You can see that years 1 and 2 ramp up period, and years three through five stabilization, and a large portion of that is attributed to the motocross events. 
 
Our revenue projections, these are based on similar facilities and event data, and we predict the revenue generated from ticket prices, concessions and parking and overnight RV utilization based on the event type and attendee there. 
 
That all filters through into the revenues and expenses here to understand what a realistic pro forma would look like for a motocross facility owned and operated by the county standpoint, so taking on the majority of risk there. Seeing that upon stabilization, the track is operating at a net operating profit, or income of about 184,000 and growing to 368,00 in year 30.  
 
Getting into the economic and fiscal employment analysis, we used an implant model which provides multipliers for the indirect and induced spending that will result from the direct spending that is happening on site here. 
 
First and foremost, looking at our room at night. This is scenario A, somewhat more conservative event and attendance type here, but you can see there is still a significant amount of room nights being generated from the events because due to the fact that most of them are spanning across 2 to 3 days on a given instance. 
 
Looking at would be our net new spending, we categorized us in five categories. We have food and beverage, lodging, retail, transportation and other. We have direct net new spending to Volusia County is 182 million over the 30 year timeline and that is trickling into the local economy, generating the induced and indirect spending, so that combined total new spend being around 293 million, again over the 30 year timeframe. 
 
Looking at capturable taxes, this is what taxes would be generated from .5%, and tourist tax, through RV tourist here which is 1.9 million over the 30 year timeframe. Summarizing everything that I just went through, as well as those construction impacts. Down at the bottom there, so this is scenario A, this is a county owned and operated scenario that we have here. Looking at scenario B, which would be a county owned facility or the county owning the land, and bidding out the design or operational standpoint to a private management company, which is becoming increasingly more common, especially with youth sports complexes having the public involvement offsetting some of the cost, development costs, for a private facility to come in and manage it. 
 
The benefits of that as you can see here is the ability to have more of what is considered high impact events, so 14 events at stabilization here, and what you can see with the attendance productions is having the higher average per event and this is due to just the ability for a private operator or private management company having the incentive to want the high impacts events or revenue streams. 
 
For year five for stabilization we have predicted total attendance being that 43,500. And then looking in our revenue projections, very similar to scenario A here again filtering through our revenues and expenses to get our pro forma. In scenario B, to projected net operating income taking place here in year four compared to your five but as you can see, it is increasingly growing every single year. 
 
Again, majority of that is due to the high impact events also having that management fee being a percentage of revenue so they are incentivized to continue to program the facility and attract not only local utilization, but also having regular regional and national events on the beacons there. 
 
Again, going into our impact, we have room night totaling around 15,700 upon stabilization in year five. Our net new spending in this 30 year timeframe, direct net new spending due to the project would not be happening otherwise, around $225 million and then that total combination spending, excuse me, direct, indirect, and induced spending to Volusia County totaling at 362 million number down at the bottom. With our capture a vulnerable tax impact being about $2.3 million, again over that 30 year timeframe and then just summarizing the scenario B. 
 
So obviously two different outcomes based on the operation standpoint here. And then I believe our next slide kind of takes us back to what these scenarios really look like and what we analysed in terms of the market opportunities for a new motocross track within Volusia County, Florida, so showing that scenario A, County built and County operated, County LT in scenario B with a private investor and operator, and the final scenario or possibility would be scenario C, a land lease to a private developer and operator. That would take on the full risk without the public involvement. 
 
But that kind of wraps up our presentation here. Obviously I wasn't able to answer questions throughout you to the speaker problem but I will turn that back on and be able to answer any questions or go through anything on a deeper level from here. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you very much. Counsel, questions? David Santiago? 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Thank you, good presentation. Quick, but very to the point so I appreciate that. My question was on scenario C, have you seen successful – have you seen anybody successfully do scenario C? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Yes, so the Okeechobee facility that I showed earlier, that is kind of a scenario C example. It is a little bit more unique, especially when we look at I would say the tournament complexes, but then even new sports facilities, just not having that public involvement. And just to do to the rising construction costs that we are seeing, not only with sports complexes or sports facilities but kind of with a lot of real estate developments within recent years. It is becoming less popular but it still exists for sure. Definitely scenario B kind of being somewhat more of a trend within recent years due to those rising construction costs and the private sector not wanting to take on as many risks at the upfront without any public involvement. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Thank you. One follow-up question. On I think it was scenario letter and B. Did I see right that it looked like in year four, it was almost a break even? Was it your three or four, it was almost a break even in the operational cost versus ...? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Yes. With scenario B here you have a bit quicker of a breakeven scenario happening in your four and obviously you see here five through 30 operating at a significant that operating income there were scenario it A does breakeven, it just breaks even upon stabilization in year five so not as quick but still being able to operate at a profit there. But obviously having that weight lifted more from the county standpoint or public sector, so to speak, not having that management fee. As you can see, that zeroed out there. 
 
In hitting a 368,000 by your 30 your scenario B does have about 760,000 projection for net operating income. So slight differences but obviously still a situation where both scenarios are breaking even eventually, just at different time frames. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Sure, thank you. One final question, but I just thought of another one. Have you showed us something to other facilities in Florida, so in your research or your opinion, I think Volusia County has a little bit more or a lot more to offer than some of those other counties. Do you think facility here similar to those or wherever better would perform better? 
 
SPEAKER: 
So, based on our projections, obviously, we do use comparables or what we think in terms of expenses would be proven in terms of success. Obviously, our opinion is a little less important that I think the public opinion at this stage of things, where we are contracted just to show our data and what we find. Obviously there are operating models which is kind of the goal of showing those case studies. Volusia County does have the demand from our conversations and that opportunity for a new track, so it's really up to whether or not I guess the policy decision, so to speak, would rather take on more of a County weight or county lift versus contracting out the operation standpoint, if that is something that they are wanting – if you are wanting to explore, obviously, it has been done in different scenarios here but it is becoming an increasingly popular sport does have the demand that we have seen. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilor Robins? And the question will be for Tadd, if he's available. 
 
SPEAKER: 
OK, that'll work too. I think Ben does motocross. Then, you do motocross, don't you? 
 
SPEAKER: 
No (Laughs) 
 
SPEAKER: 
Oh, maybe his dad. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
I understand a lot of the stuff here. That area could have some impact here shortly. 1200 homes were approved just north in the city of Daytona Beach. I think there are some others across the street. I know there were some issues out there after the storm, post storms. Have we done a traffic impact analysis or projection? Because I know once those are built, or built out, from what I understand just talking to some of the attorneys, that that will be at or above capacity, that road. Is any of that stuff, are we planning, just like we did for the last item, are we planning ahead for this so we can – hey, Tad, how are you? 
 
TADD KASBEER: 
Yes sir! (Laughs) You are correct. There are other development going on in that area and will have an effect on the traffic. The traffic generated by an event like this would not typically be considered an average daily trip type of traffic. So when you have special events, you don't usually take them into that account. Based on those traffic studies, we don't know what the weekend trips would be like so obviously that would be something we would take a look at but the size of event would dictate a large portion of that. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Sure. In real quick, is this, we will have special events and every thing else. Is this going to be open year-round? Was that kind of your ... not in the winter? 
 
TIM BAYLIE: 
To Baylie. Yes, it'll be open year-round. I get is three days, they rejected in the study, three days during the week practice and then the events would be two days, sometimes three days, depending on the event. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Do we have any idea what would be looking at? The traffic productions would be? 
 
TADD KASBEER: 
I do not. Not off the top of my head sir. But that would be something as a part of the site plan that would be necessary for this to move forward into the next phase, that we would take a look at that aspect. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
And I say, I'm going to make a statement, I'm kind of for this but going back to our previous item, that would kind of be key just we were able to know what DOT was doing prior to this development. That would be key in us for making an educated decision to spend that money so that's kind of what I was getting at. I like you have a lot of it but I want to be realistic and prepared for it. So I will be asked these questions by everybody there, so ... 
 
SPEAKER: 
Give me a few minutes and let me see if we can't get you an answer. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Johansson? 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Thank you, Chairman. One of the things we got all the time, Ben/Todd/whoever is going to answer this, is that a mile of road costs a lot of money to pave, Mr elected official. And here we are doing about 3 miles for a million bucks. New paradox can you do that in house? 
 
BENJAMIN BARTLETT: 
Actually, we are not looking to come in on Sean's road. We are looking to come in on the entrance that is being (Indiscernible) now by the RC folks. So that is a really right at a mile. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
A mile? 
 
BENJAMIN BARTLETT: 
Dirt road right now, not exact a wide enough for two lanes of traffic. So we used our dirt road paving numbers that we do normally because essentially it is driveway to the facility. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Got it. 
 
BENJAMIN BARTLETT: 
The battle will be rejected as the cost for that. And that is a maximum cost, assuming – I've spoken to staff at Port Orange about equalizing shunts Road, which is and – well it is, but equalizing this it -- from the city to equalize their access or by saw that road coming to use it might have modifications that would be three per. Then paving the current entrance to that area, it might be cheaper but we put the maximum in. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Then they may be willing, right? I share the same concern. We can't talk about oh my God, the traffic and discounted here. So I will be excited to see that information when it comes in. Because to local farms Road, small. I know things are. Alright, thanks. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Ben? Just a couple quick questions for you and then one for the other speaker. Does this require any zoning changes? 
 
BENJAMIN BARTLETT: 
That is ... 
 
(Multiple speakers) 
 
BENJAMIN BARTLETT: 
I think because it's government-owned, I don't believe it does, but that would be a good question for Clay. Typically when it is owned by the government, it doesn't require a zoning change. 
 
SPEAKER: 
OK. But he can never really answer that. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
I know it's probably too early for this, I'll ask it anyway. Right now there are very few people in that area. There are more whole – Mike Moore homecoming apparently. Has there been any outreach to the neighbourhoods, what they think about traffic or noise? I'm thinking of – we have a wonderful World War II Museum in old steam that they can't even shoot off their canon because you neighbours complain. Now, this might be less noisy than a canon. You would have to tell us, Don. But it is a longer period of time I guess for the races. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
There is noise barriers. They can put the walls like on the highways where they can put up hills with bamboo. That's actually a good sound barrier. You plant bamboo and it baffles all the noise. And it has already been done. 
 
SPEAKER: 
What I would say is the development's recurring -- occurring north of there. This land is immediately south of the landfill. It is on that property south of there. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
Most of the developments would be occurring on the east side of Tomoka Farms rolled at the county owns just a little further south of that, a large portion of land all the way down to where this facility is. There are some homes immediately south of this, a large lot subdivision. And then to the west, it is either owned by the County or the city of Port Orange or the city of Daytona Beach. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
But no feedback from any of ... 
 
SPEAKER: 
I don't believe so at this point. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK. I think this is probably for the other speaker. You said there was two in Florida. Are they both privately owned?  
 
SPEAKER: 
No, these are the two that we profile just to give an idea obviously on visitation, whatever events generate here. This one here is privately owned, but this one Gatorback Cycle Park visitation, it is owner operated by unlimited sports but there's more public involvement. I don't believe this is fully privately owned, but I can double check that for you. 
 
There's a number of instances where there's publicly owned, publicly managing these are the two that we profiled in terms of hosting events on a yearly basis but the proximity and location being somewhat similar to Volusia County, obviously, not copy and paste because this one is a little bit more of a rural destination. There are definitely instances of that. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Is there a Gatorback Cycle Park representative in the audience? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Okeechobee is here. He owns two, one is public, one is private, if you want to come up and he can ask, he is right back here. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
This is agonizing. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Oh, yeah. He is right here. 
 
SPEAKER: 
How's it going. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
thank you for coming up. You own two? 
 
SPEAKER: 
I own three, one (indiscernible), (unknown name) and (unknown name). Okeechobee is private. (unknown name) is on airport property, it's right across the street from (unknown name) airport. That actually exists on federal property. That airport manages and leases to us, and (unknown name) is also private. We have been working with a few other counties to do the public/private partnership. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK. Thank you, I'm curious what is happening right now in Florida. OK. That is all the questions I had. Matt Reinhart? 
 
MATT REINHART: 
Thank you, I only had one, and maybe for the presenter. 
 
We are unique in this area, as opposed to maybe Okeechobee with respect to the Speedway being down the street. Has any conversation been had possibly, I know they do events with motorcycle races, different, obviously, but could those two coincide? 
 
SPEAKER: 
I mean, that is definitely a possibility, we have not had conversations at this point, but that is something we could explore. It's not a rare instance to have partnerships with existing assets especially when they are relatively close in proximity, and do share similar markets. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
They are similar, but not the same but similar but with respect to how they coordinate the efforts. The track is confined, it is a little more controlled, they have been doing the traffic stuff since 66 years now? With respect to NASCAR races, but I am curious with – I don't want to leave that off the table if this is something we seek, that we can partner with people who have done similar activities. Thank you. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Ben, this is a question, if we can add the stormwater plans, also because I know Tomoka goes through there and there has been issues in the past. What we are going to do. Just trying to wrap my head around it and get some consistency in what we do, and how we measure this. 
 
BENJAMIN BARTLETT: 
She can go back, I think to Gatorback. They will be required to pull a stormwater permit and do all of that. We worked with the consultant and try to reduce the impervious areas, in the facilities you can see the photo there do not have a ton of impervious areas and a lot of them2, it appears, ends up digging the storm water pond to construct the dirt track.  
 
I am by no means an expert and motocross, but you don't want really wet facilities, out there so they would still have to apply for a stormwater permit and meet all requirements and deal with that. If they are in the floodplain, they have to do infill and meet all the requirements. 
 
Going through, working with Brad and his team and talking with the consultant, talking about constructibility, they don't create a lot of impervious area out there there's a lot of earthmoving exercise, and dirt stabilize parking with does, you got to account for stormwater thing. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
I can justify it because I'm into this kind of stuff but I'm biased, but as the theory goes and what we have heard on the Council is if we build it up, guess what? It's going to flood out everyone else in the entire area. If we use that as a gauge and how we go forward to Mr. Santiago's point, we have a lot of questions that are not difficult but I'm looking for consistency.  
 
BENJAMIN BARTLETT: 
They have to meet the requirements and if it's in a floodplain they have to meet the requirements. The way I have seen still is built this is almost like it's a neutral calculation in terms of where they dig a hole for the pond, and they use the material to build the track. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
I am familiar. 
 
BENJAMIN BARTLETT: 
If that's the case, if they're not bearing in infill and not pre-and stormwater, it's impervious. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Question for (unknown name), I noticed there is a plan but it looks to me all three phases need to be built in order for this thing to kind of go operational. Is there any thought to phasing it, especially if government foots the bill for this, where we can get started, and then move towards phase 3, where we can put people in there overnight, and work on the other areas that put motorcycles on the track first, and then worry about having people sleep over for five or six days, that is what I'm getting at. 
 
I don't want to wait three years to build something when I put bikes on the track in year one, and build up the RV site in year two. I don't know. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Absolutely. That is what we show here is having enough of, obviously, critical mass or amenities, so to speak, more so offerings, that are able to accommodate not only the local practice throughout the year, but also the tournaments. This would be the bare minimum scenario. If we want to get up and running, and phase out, obviously, to spread out the costs, as well, this would kind of be the recommendation for that. 
 
Having this be a part of phase 1, and then phase 2 being the additional surface parking and then the RV spaces there, with the electric and water hookups, and I think, in terms of this site – 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
That is for the RV and not for the track and the use of restrooms? I got you. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Right. Phase 1 is not rare to bring in portopotties for the portable concessions not temporary concessions, you still want to be able to bring in temporary facilities while you are constructing the full kit income poodle, so to speak. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Copy, so to speak. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
Let me tell you first, we got a room full of knowledge, accessibility, we have (unknown name) who is working on other facilities, and sandbox here who trained, they have a professional training in the top motocross in the country training in Groveland at his facility, we have a track owner here from Martha's Vineyard, a retired professional, current professional, future professionals. There is a wealth of knowledge here, if you have these questions, maybe we can get them back up. 
 
I looked at this under that program 20 years ago, I told you, my own feasibility, I try to put this in as a private citizen through the old program, and I think this can be done way cheaper. The gator back scenario, that is a world record, for last four years in attendance, over 6000 people. Ricky Carmichael which will start in two weeks, sold out 2000 entries in an hour and 30 minutes, and he could talk to Mr. (unknown name), the retired pro who still rides, he will tell you he cannot get in. That is a demand that we have. 
 
You can make it is bigger and little as you want to. You can have a big event. George, do you want to inform them about NASCAR's input about this? 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
We have had, to your point, Mr Reinhart, thank you for bringing that up. We have had discussions with NASCAR. They would like to be involved. They have not said they would be involved financially, yet, but I know that is what you – we have had good conversation with them and they have the Ricky Carmichael event, they are very interested, they are very interested in having and promoting a local track like this just like they do and also their auto racing and they work with New Smyrna Beach Speedway and others, as well. They definitely see anything that helps grow the sport, they are interested in.  
 
I met with Mr. Kelleher about that, and others, so they're interested, but I think they want to see what direction the Council wants to take it.  
 
Let me say, they have facilities as we know, with RV and stuff as well, and on the books, there are other RVs facilities nearby here, that are coming out of the ground, so if you talk in a phased approach, you may not have to start. There can be some of the stuff we look at, what is specific to this area, and what you need to get it started, and then maybe it grows into those other facilities. There are rather large RV facilities that are going to come online on the road. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
I would supplement this, I had lunch with Mr. Kelleher, he called me and Mr. (unknown name), VP, and they are interested in that, which is my understanding. They own the AMA, the American motorcycle Association so there the sanctioning body.  
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
If we had events and would love to get involved and sanctioning the events. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
They control everything on TV on Saturday nights. (unknown name) to reopen the land, you will see him on Saturday racing with the rest of them and three other kids from Volusia County, this is a big area, this is a hot spot, for the sport and it's growing and growing and there's nowhere to ride and I have said this ad nauseam, there is nowhere to ride in the county at all. They are planning on telling you the problems they have had growing up with being able to find a place to ride. I will get off of that. 
 
If you had questions, there is a wealth of knowledge out there, but I do think that it is needed. I am in favor of plan B, that is the norm in the industry, as the lady from Hunden said, a public/private partnership will have (unknown name) in (unknown name), I'm interested in seeing the county do something similar to that so we can get places to ride in Volusia County. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
David Santiago? 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Thank you. 
 
Going into this, I did not know what to expect but I am impressed with the pro forma, I did not expect it to be that good, the numbers speak very well. Year three and year four, when you're breaking even answer me money from there, with the projections, I know you said it would do better. 
 
Understanding that it would be conservative numbers, I am very impressed and the potential is huge and I want to support you in this. I think we can make this work. I try to compare it all little bit, I know they are apples and oranges, but I looked at Ocean Center, and looking at preliminary numbers, we spent $11 million annually and is still upset him. 
 
SPEAKER: 
(away from mic) 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
That is not taxpayer money, you have schooled me on that. 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
That is correct. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
It's not apples and oranges but I'm trying to describe the attendance. And the money that is invested in it and the investment that is made overall in the Ocean Center, and it doesn't make money. I'm not trying to bash the Ocean Center but this pro forma speaks for itself in year four you are making money, and have probably a national attracting site. I like it, I want to find out next steps to support you and do this. Thank you.  
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK. I have one more question for you if you don't mind. I'm wondering about liability. Who holds the liability? Are you self-insured? Who buys the insurance? 
 
SPEAKER: 
There is insurance you can obtain for the parks. Typically, for Ponta Gorda, their park holds a minimum threshold insurance that we have to obtain. From the park. So when it comes to liability, you have waivers. There is a lot of different technology type things you can get different liabilities from. Even caution lighting, – yes, sorry about that. Different aspects. There are insurance companies out there that you can go ahead and get cover your liability. 
 
SPEAKER: 
What do you do? 
 
SPEAKER: 
I have insurance that covers my liability. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
You are self-insured? 
 
SPEAKER: 
No, no, I am not self insured. I have insurance. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
That's what I meant. You are paying for the insurance. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Correct. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
And that's covered by entrance fees and every thing else? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Yes, what's paying for the park is the entrance fees. Whether it is spectators or riders, that is what covering the cost. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK. Thank you. 
 
SPEAKER: 
You are welcome. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Don, I will put up where I am right now because I would like to hear from the rest of the Council. I really want this to work. Somewhere. It is, my family, part of your family to his into equestrian sports. And there is ... (Laughs) I see a lot of heads nodding. They spend a lot of money. Families go, it is good, clean fun. Will motorsports is the same thing. Families spend a lot of money. You know, it's fun, it's clean. 
 
In my opinion, I really like this location better than the forest. We just get rid of all the baggage that comes with that. This is really a sport now. It's just not pleasure riding through the what's. It is a controlled sport. Where I am with it right now is, I am really leaning towards option three because I think it is more consistent with the goals that we set of reducing the size of government, trying to reduce our expenses, and I think you, as well, Don, really wants to go to Rollback next year. 
 
When I look at $10 million, net you said you think it can be done cheaper. I look at $10 million and I am hearing $10 million all the time when it comes to SunRail and all these things we have to look at. So, I like scenario three, self-insured or, the county is not carrying a liability. And without taxpayer money spent on building it and certainly not on writing it. I want to reduce the size of government and I want to increase the enjoyment of living in our county, of having something like this too. 
 
I think we can get there. I just don't want to add another division or department to the county and all the expense of maintaining that. So that's just kind of where I am right now. 
 
SPEAKER: 
It cannot respond to that? Am I allowed to, or not? 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Dan is next but do you mind Mr Robbins if you respond? 
 
SPEAKER: 
I was going to check with Jake and see if I'm allowed to talk about! 
 
(Laughter) 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
I'm going to support you with this, this is economic as far as I'm concerned when we can give $1 million to airline companies in the blink of an eye and stick our next out with that kind of gamble. This, to me, is just, even though I did not support it, I think this right here, to hit on what David said, is going to be at the positive within a short amount of time. I'll make a motion to approve but I'm going to ... I'll make a motion to approve. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Approve what? Scenario A, B, or C? 
 
SPEAKER: 
I am moving for B actually and I can explain why. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK. Troy Kent, still in front of you? 
 
(Laughter) 
 
TROY KENT: 
Before I vote, on something like this, where we are just getting information from the expert, excuse me. I would just need a little more information and one of the things, Don, I think you'll be able to answer for me, is this idea of an RV park there, what is the average stay? Because unless you are participating or watching your family, no one's going to just want to go and use the RV park and listen to this. You know, oh, I'll go and have unenjoyable RV visit and I want to listen to motocross. 
 
So what is the average night stay? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Can we play the first -- video 
 
SPEAKER: 
If you don't mind before the video I was just wondering, how many nights you go? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Moto Sandbox is here and they are training facility which is another thing we were considering here. They have people that come down, I don't know if you want to talk to Jason Baker. He trains the top pros and amateurs in the country. They stay at his place from California, Minnesota, everywhere. They live on site and they train year-round. Florida is a destination now for the sport because you can't train year-round in Minnesota, you can't train year-round Seattle or New York. You have to come to work climate. 
 
This is the new hub. Because of the California regulations, this is the spot for motocross. 
 
TROY KENT: 
Is it one night, tonight, three nine? 
 
SPEAKER: 
New Deaf year-round. 
 
TROY KENT: 
No I mean when you go to an event. You go to a facility and how many nights do you stay? 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
The one at Thanksgiving is eight days. 
 
TROY KENT: 
The reason I ask that – 
 
SPEAKER: 
I will add to that quick. In terms of a production standpoint, again, we do tend to be on the conservative side just to get a more realistic or conservative approach. So we only modelled out based on events that it would be two nights, so, for the event day, it would just be those 50 spots per, if you can see those motocross events, RB slips. 50 slips basically per event. So we were conservative in that approach that is wanted to – sorry for interjecting, I just wanted to add that to bet there if I wasn't clear the first time around explaining. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
If I could just answer one thing quickly, Troy. It's mostly dry camping. So we don't have to have the hookups. We don't have to have – everything is dry camping. Most people with these places don't have RV hookups. The place in Gainesville, I don't know if you want to roll that clip quickly. This was two months ago my son was there. This is the event that they were talking about that draws 6000 people. This set world records the last four years and all these people here have raised it. I don't think it's come up yet, but this will just show you the amount of RVs that come to this event. 
 
The first 800 sellout in literally 10 minutes. When it comes time for sign-up. No, that is I believe that's ... that's around one. (Laughs) The other one. That is a good one! That's a silent movie for Jake over there. 
 
(Laughter) 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
I didn't want to hit you with too much! 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Did he's dissolute about? 
 
(Laughter) 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
I just wanted to answer that so you can see the potential it has if we wanted to get this big. It doesn't have to get that big but this is the media limit. This is Gainesville, Gatorback. Figures he can't yet. Each one of those – this is an aerial. Each one of those is an RV with a trailer on the back of it. 6000 people. This initial site here, 80 acres. This is the one that brought in the world record for the fourth year in a row, 6000 people from all over the world. My son's class had kids from I think every state, Czech Republic, France, Argentina, Mexico, Canada, from everywhere. 
 
This is such an incredible international sport now and all these people here will attest to that. The blonde lady in the back lived in an RV at that facility that Mr Baker owns. Over in Groveland. I mean, this board, you just don't deal with it all the time. I've been doing this for 50 years. I actually did a feasibility, like I said, 20 years ago on this same exact spot, actually coincidently. I mean, it's going to work? 
 
TROY KENT: 
Are you flying the drone? 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
No, this is actually a professional. That just shows you the number of RVs that come in and probably 80% of those are dry camping, try. So we don't have to do RV hookup to spend that money. 
 
TROY KENT: 
And that's what – I can with my family in our camper for 12 years. And, like, I'm just thinking about me or my kid out, you know, on a motorbike and the last thing I would want to do is dry camping. I saw there might be electric and water. My thing was we purposely would not stay at campsites if they didn't have the sewer hookup because it just makes it so what's more convenient. You know, I didn't want to have to go to a dump station.  
 
That's why I was asking the number of days. If you are there the two days like the expert with saying, the enunciation is fine. That works. Our basically everyday there. You know, but when these individuals come in, they are staying the night, we need a place to take a shower in their RV. And if they have sewer hookup, I just think it is better. 
 
I feel like if you were going to do it, do it right the first time. Don't come back and have to spend more money down the road to add something that the people may want right now. That being said, you know, Don, I told this counsel first meeting when we sat here that if it was important to you, meaning any of you, it was important to me. That I would want to talk about it and hopefully help and support, you know, a new initiative. 
 
I don't remember – David, I think it was the chairman that said it and it was something along the lines of, you know, this provide sort of like a different quality of life for people, more options, things to do, something to do in our community. And not to go down that road, but that's where I was with the dog section of the beach. Something for our residents. So, will there be a dog friendly section...? 
 
(Laughter) 
 
TROY KENT: 
Thank you! 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
That was my first -- (Laughs) 
 
TROY KENT: 
With my three and a half minutes left, you know I was going there! And I'll keep harping on it! 6-1 motion, I don't forget! Jake, you were with me from day one man, day one! 
 
That being said, I have had one other resident, just so you know, ask for this and reach out. I wish I was saying I had hundred saying I want this, I want this community. I will have to get the staff and find out more about exactly the distance from homes because this is a super fun, super exciting, super loud event. And maybe not like Gator nationals loud but motorbikes are loud. 
 
You know, I hear about like a berm and some bamboo. You know, and things, and I'm just letting anybody know, that could derail me, as negatively impacting the everyday lives of someone in the home who it's like, "I didn't sign up for this. I don't want to listen to this everyday." Because that's me. I would be losing my mind if this was coming next to my home and I had to listen to this ever, even once a year. But that was the case. 
 
So I just want to make sure from staff, get some reassurances, how far we would be from future homecoming there. But that I could be swayed for this. I'm not a definite no. And Don, I gotta tell you, you been talking about this and like month one. But I love that you are following through on something you are passionate about. You did it growing up, you shared that with us. We have heard about it almost as much as someone talks about the jail! 
 
(Laughter) 
 
TROY KENT: 
Just kidding! But really, you are passionate about it, and, you know, the type of dad you are, you know, you talk about your son and the experiences you guys have together. It is wholesome, actually. So I appreciate that. 
 
I just need a few assurances to get me completely on board. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK, Don. Before I call on you, I hope when you talk, you will make your son stand up so we can all see him because – well, maybe everyone else can see him. He's being blocked by that computer for me! Well you are talking, would you – you just said that you wanted to do this on private property or sell. I would like to hear why that didn't work or why you decided against it and anything else he wanted to say. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Mr Chairman can I ask a quick question? Are we still in question, or in debate? And do we have a motion and a second? I just want to get back on track. Love the story, Don, but I just want to know where we are. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
We have a motion, but I'm not sure if it's for A, B, or C. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Can I clarify that right now? Is that OK? I would like to make a motion to approve for staff to come back with the details for a scenario B and scenario C cost-benefit, safety, everything about has to do with both of them to ensure that we want to go in the right direction because both of them have their pros and cons and we haven't allowed staff to fully investigate those. That is my motion. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
So motion B and C to have that information come back to the Council so that we can – 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
That's correct. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Is there a second for that? 
 
SPEAKER: 
I will second. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Motion was made. Don, I gave you credit for it but it was by Jake. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
That's fine. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Jake Johansson. And the second was by David Santiago.  
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
I don't think I have anything to say, really. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Why did you do it by yourself on private property? 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
It was a NIMBY property, the exact location 20 years ago, with (unknown name) and (unknown name), back then. I have been talking about this in pushing for this and I had other – I was heavily been in real estate development and stuff on the side, besides law practice, and to be honest with you, I got fed up with the bureaucracy of it, to be honest with you and I moved on to something else because it was too much red tape. Honestly. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Who owned the land? 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
Same spot. They did Sea Park back then, fishery, there is a lot going on but there was so much red tape. That was it. I believe I have said in the past, about, I think this can be done for 2 million. The state of the County address, we just boasted up the pickle ball facility and the county kicked in $2.59 for pickle ball. That's great and all but a souped-up shuffle ball for old people. 
 
We got kids, everybody complains about the kids on the computer. 
 
(Multiple speakers) 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
I think it is great. That is great that the county is kicking in, this is ECHO, this is Parks, this is an outdoor – what? OK. This is why we need this was at this is why I am pushing for option B because option B the county should kick in a couple million dollars for the roads getting in, for the utilities getting out there, in the 1 mile strip. Whatever that takes to get it site ready. 
 
I think that is probably what the potential developers would want, as well, is some steak money from the county, because we are building a park, we are building something to get these kids out there doing stuff aside sitting on their tablets and it is not all about walking trails impeccable and that kinds of stuff. We've got to get kids out doing BMX, football fields, baseball fields, outdoor activities of all kinds to get them exercising and there's a lot of benefits to this sport that maybe you do not realize, that is what a lot of these people are here to talk about is what it offers families.  
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
It is not a clock I think we got the vote, can I call the question? 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Not yet, a lot of public wants to speak. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Looking good, public. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Jake Johansson? 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
There's a couple of things that were discussed today, I think if we vote that we can take care of it in the following conversation. I have spent two weeks dry camping in the infield of Daytona international Speedway, and I have no problem getting pump out every once in a while. There is ways around it, if we do not do so. That can be arranged in scenario B and scenario C. 
 
I want to ask a quick question to George or somebody out there, to kind of explain public/private partnerships, because scenario B is in it and scenario C is sort of it. If you can clarify that because there might be some highbred in there that I think would be interesting. 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
You are talking about a little bit of a hybrid. With B, you are building the facility, and having them run it, and maybe sharing and profits. C is the – we provide very basic road and utilities and the land, and they invest in that park, so they're both public/private partnership but how much of a partner do you want to be? B we are more of a partner and C, we are more of the here is the land, we are going to collect the lease payment basically, we're going to put a minimal amount up front, and I say minimal, but it will be whatever it takes to do the utilities and the road. 
 
Those are the two. I like the idea of me becoming back with a little bit more analysis between B and C, as long as everybody – we are looking today to do A, do we have a go-ahead? I am thinking, we probably do, and we can study more between B and C, to see what we can provided we can come into a solicitation if they come in and put in as part of that. That solicitation, we can phase it as we talked about. 
 
There's a lot of ways you can go at that point with benchmarks, if they are going to provide this by a certain date, and then maybe this further down the road. We can look at how we can do the leasing. May be because in the beginning, they are putting more money in, we would not expect an actual lease payment until maybe a little later on in the process. 
 
Again, those could all be lined out as part of solicitation. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
The analysis could include funding services, yes? 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
Yes, that is on my list here. Don, for clarification, what we would think, what are we doing for funding sources? I heard ECHO a few minutes ago, probably would be eligible but we have an ECHO process. That certainly would be something we want to look at and I didn't know if it was a council's desire, do you want us to engage in the neighborhood now, or wait a little farther along? To see if there's an engagement process, or any concern from the neighborhood. 
 
I tried to measure it out here on Google maps, to get the distance, maybe you can put it up there and take a look. So, where you see the Daytona Beach Radio Control Association, that is a property we are talking about, in the center. You are looking... Yes, I cannot tell. You hit the house, I think there is another house closer, but basically looking at 1000 – there you go, 1500 feet, to the nearest house. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I will add, George, the landfill owns North as well as Port Orange, but 12,000 acre longleaf pine preserve which is to the west, and further south owned jointly by the County and the city of Port Orange. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Also, the homes are coming in velop, there are homes on the east side of Tomoka farms here, and some additional development occurring up here which is further away. 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
I would point out, above the GNC hunt club there, where the lake – north of there, go back up, right here. That area there is your new cell, where we would be putting tens of millions of dollars in shortly to the building, your next 100 years of life for your landfill. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
I'm all set. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
Actually I think George just answered it, I was curious of how close the homes were, thank you. I know going back to the NASCAR thing, how close they are to the Speedway, but I know that this is a longer operation, it is open daily, I get that. It is not just special events. 
 
Troy, do you want a fountain with it? (Laughs) OK.  
 
TROY KENT: 
Thank you, for me, George, yes I say yes to reaching out now to the homeowners and getting their input. And the other thing, Jake made the motion – it seems like a lot of governments, local governments, especially, they don't want to be involved in businesses. "We don't want to do that, it is a big no-no."  
 
I think about Hannah Park up in Jacksonville. They have 300 campsites, and if you like to ride bicycles through trails, it's unbelievably great, and it's owned by the city of Jacksonville. 300 campsites owned by the city. They have frontage on the ocean, over 400 acres, the whole thing. It is difficult to get in there. And I loved it, that the city kept it. 
 
They have their employees, and they make the money for the residents. I am not interested in making somebody else rich, on county dime. I am just not. We are not looking at option A, because many don't want to get involved in the business.  I don't think there's anything wrong with the local government making money for the residents. 
 
If this is going to be as successful as some of us are toting, what is wrong with the County of Volusia making money on this instead of making someone else rich? I saw the numbers it brings between 1.3 and 1.6 million an animal because it is between 300 and 600 per year, it seems like they make a million and 1,000,003 a year, sign me up, I am in. Why don't we do that for our residents? Let them make the money and decrease taxes because we're doing that. 
 
I mentioned that because I would have seconded it because if Mr. Santiago didn't, Mr Johansson, but I did not want to necessarily leave option A up the table to staff to come back with us if we are options B and C, I am not afraid to make money, I don't think any of us are, but if we are going to do it, take the risk. That was my plea to add option A. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
George, right now the motion is B and C, so you are going to bring back information on both of those. Will that include – I'm asking because I think I heard you mention, or one of the councilmembers, going out also to the Speedway, making Barboursville Speedwell, New Smyrna Beach Speedway. 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
I had talked to, like you say, the ISB, those folks because I knew they had – they owned AMA and, again, they put on a large oven already. They asked about their interests and concerns because I did not know how they felt, or if they would not want the competition, or how would they take it or feel. Again, they – were not only did they embrace it, they like the idea of growing the sport for here Volusia County. 
 
They looked at it like I said, the relationship, with New Smyrna Speedway is a positive one. Their drivers start in places like that. They know they have to grow the sport, so they saw that – they saw this as an extension of that. Again, they may be sanctioning body for events, they would definitely be open to that. I kind of wanted to see where it was going, and if they wanted to participate. Barboursville that outcome up in the conversation. But that's another facility that is out there already. Their focus is and have a large following, for go-cart racing and for kids, and different motor sport to focus on. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
I don't know if they have enough land or not. 
 


GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
Exactly. We are trying to see what some of the best models are. I was trying to see what Mr Kent thought of us running it. I think we are good at running some things and then there are other things and I'm a little worried about because of the complexity of the sport we don't have that kind of in-house knowledge so that is why I think that B and C part, you get involved with these racing organizations and they are bringing that to the table, their knowledge and, you know, at these places we mentioned already happened and so I'm assuming they have sanctioning bodies and things they are a part of what they are running these events and I think that's what you are picking up verses, you know, lustfully running it all away. 
 
But B and C, the difference, B, we are helping to build that facility and then we are partnering in the profit and C, it's more of a land lease so in theory we are making money, just not as much money but we would be getting a lease payment and we could take a look at what it would take to get our investment back as far as running the utilities or repairing the road or creating the road. That is something we would analyse next, I think, in the next phase. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK, think. One more question. So I understand it. In scenario C, it says clearly, request proposals for the development lease and operation of the facility. Same thing in B except for development? 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
We develop more of it. In other words, it would be that ... 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Putting out proposals to run it. 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
Putting out the proposal to run it. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK, David Santiago. Thank you, George. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I just wanted to add, Mr Chairman. I get where you are going, George, on option A. I would be OK with leaving it on the table for you all to look at it and not exclude it. Maybe your conversations with NASCAR turn out differently. 
 
 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
I think we have a little bit to do and during that period of time, we don't have to throw out A, like you said, it's there and we see what you find out. Maybe it puts us in a direction where we want to be more or more involvement. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I wouldn't excluded but I do know we could get Troy's full support if we put a fountain and a light in it. 
 
TROY KENT: 
If you had a fountain and it was lit and there was a dog friendly section around the ... 
 
(Laughter) 
 
TROY KENT: 
You are tickling my buying bone, is what you are doing! And I like where you're going with a (Laughs) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK. I think we have come to the end of it. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
All three scenarios by amendment. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I'll second that amendment. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
So we have all three scenarios, A, B, and C. So I want to make it real clear to the people who have sat out here through all of this. That tonight you are not getting a decision on which one it is, but we are moving forward and staff will come back with more information on these three scenarios. We each have our preferences we will deal with it in a few weeks, I guess. 
 
Any certain timeframe that this will come back? 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
I can't do that right now to these guys. I have to ... 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Next week? 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
Not next week. We will meet and I will report back to you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK. 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
I know one thing, iPhone won't go long without Don giving me a call to see where it's at, so it'll deftly be ... 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Mr Chairman, can I just add maybe if the Council agrees that it would be something that would be in the timeline for this next upcoming budget to be considered for that time period? 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Wants that? 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
We go into budget in a few months. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Oh, yes. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
The next budget. Then it maxes that timeline. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
And we can put it in. Or not. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Correct. 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
We have that entity echo cycles. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Correct. ECHO cycles can be amended this week, by the way. I looked up. 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
Oh I was just informed we were not tied to the cycle. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK, Don Dempsey. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
I would ask Mr Mark to come back up then. Because I – Jason, do you want to come up real quick? Because I don't think option a is going to even be at Seeley -- appealing to potential truck owners and I will ask Mr Baker, maybe if you want to say that as well? My understanding is option B is pretty much what's already been going on in Dayton city which has been in business for 40 years and I know the order is not a millionaire by any stretch according to what I know. Can you tell us the option, since you have done other private partnerships with other counties? 
 
SPEAKER: 
I saw this happen with Palm Beach County. And Palm Beach was kind of looking in between all three as well. Option A, they took it off the plate pretty quickly. They didn't want to deal with the liability of the sport. And all the inherent everything that goes into it. Because it is a 24/7 project, right? When you have people camping there, it turns into a big project and you really have to have on knowledge for what you are doing in order to do it. 
 
Option B, was where they were going with it and then it shortly went to option C. OK? Option C, we saw every single person that was interested drop off. So, they put in an RFP. I think there was three candidates that we are moving forward and then they moved into option C and every but he fell off. We were actually the last ones that held onto it. Reason being is, it is such an investment into the property, I'll just be honest with you, my view of it was why am I going to invest $5 million into 70 else's property? Why would I not just go buy the property for another million and do it that way? Which, honestly is what we ended up doing at that time period. 
 
So unfortunately for Palm Beach, that went away. Now they are actually coming back to circle and trying to bring this back in a different light. But that is where option C just doesn't really make sense from a truckers perspective or operator. Because again if you are putting that much money into something, what is the benefit of it not being your land? 
 
So that is where option B is, where it becomes more attractive. So it is OK, a shared expense, shared revenue, and that moves the project forward. And then option A, you know, if you wanted to get into doing motocross and tracks and everything else, God bless you! (Laughs) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Could you – go ahead. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
You heard this number, $10 million. What could actually be spent, do you think, to get this thing up and going to phase 1 where we don't have to have the brick-and-mortar facilities and RV hookups and all that? 
 
SPEAKER: 
I have now done three parks and I have not spend anywhere near 10 million on either park. And even if you look at Okeechobee, I do have the septic and sewer for the RV site OK? (Laughs) 
 
And that goes all over. I truly believe for the park it should become somewhere between 3 to 5. So I found the 3 to 5 million number number, you should be able to get the park up and running and doing very well. I mean, if you go to Okotoks, and I think somebody here ... 
 
SPEAKER: 
(Indiscernible) best track! 
 
(Laughter) 
 
SPEAKER: 
And I just met him this evening. And our objective was really taking the parks to the next level. Motocross was one of those sports that's been a little acquisition and not as professional, and that is our biggest thing, is taking it to that level and making every single person that comes to that gate feel like a professional. And if you don't mind just giving you two minutes, it was – tonight we sat through a whole bunch of talk about development, develop it, develop it, right? New paired off well, this is what we need for kids to have something to do. OK? With all this development happening all over the state, this is – there is nothing else for these kids to do. That's what got me into it. I am actually semiretired and it didn't last very long only because this is my passion. My kids love this sport, I love the sport, and I hate to see my children on iPads, iPhones, computers, you know, gaming consoles. It absolutely drives me nuts. 
 
I heard a lot of different things tonight about why, right? I will tell you, the amount of traffic that is going to take place due to this it's not going to hinder traffic at all. Road paving, there's a lot of different options between milling and things like that that can cost as well. 
 
SPEAKER: 
(Away from mic) 
 
SPEAKER: 
Or not paving at all. I like mailings but if we can't – majority of all tracks are dirt roads going onto facilities. As far as noise goes, as long as you are 500 feet away, the decibel reading is going to be under 60 dB. So as long as you have a 500 foot buffer to that next house, you will be under 60 dB. Which is typically what is allowed. I'm not too sure what it is in this county, I know the majority of counties, if you are under 60, that is fine. 
 
As far as RV stays. We talked about that. We have people that will come down all winter long and stay. I mean, right now if you go on to any one of our sites, our RV sites are sold out. We have people that come down, they come down from Canada, based a great length of time. We have people that would sit all year round if we would let them, but we try not to. 
 
So length of stay, people will stay. They love the sport, they live and breathe the sport. They travel from track to track and live in their RV. As far as amenities, you know, we did talk about it. Yes, OK, a dump station works. Electric, electric is great. Not needed right in the beginning. Someone mentioned a dog park. The funny part is we have a dog park at Okeechobee! 
 
(Laughter) 
 
SPEAKER: 
And we do have a fountain with a light at our facility and Alba! 
 
(Laughter) 
 
SPEAKER: 
So there you go! 
 
(Multiple speakers) 
 
SPEAKER: 
But you know, it's an amazing sport. I absolutely love it. My perspective, from a county running it, I'm not sure that's where you would really want to be. You know, on a be under seaside, he makes sense for everybody. C, my fear would be you will end up wasting a lot of time and end up where Palm Beach did nobody looking to move this forward. So thank you. 
 
(Applause) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Where you done? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Yes! 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
In the meantime, you could introduce him to Stony Sixma and, show him some land! 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
Stony did this forever too! 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Did he? That's true, he did. We have, Danny, I'm not forgetting you. I'll just get a nod from the audience. We have 12 people that sat here all night and wanted to speak. Do you still want to speak? 
 
(Multiple speakers) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
A couple of them do, so I will call the names if you want to speak, go forward. Danny Robins first. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
I was going get ready to call for the vote. 
 
(Multiple speakers) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
I believe Jason Aker, the gentleman who raised his hands, I believe ... 
 
SPEAKER: 
I he's going to pass. Did you want to speak? Nate Ingram? Which one are you? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Jason Baker. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK. 
 
SPEAKER: 
My name is Jason Baker. I own Moto Sandbox which is down in Lake County. It is, like Mr Dempsey said, we train top riders, amateur all the way through Pro. Right now the current points leader trains at our facility. For 20 years, I have constructed courses all over the world. I'm currently in contract to do the second phase of the Pope County bone Valley project. I'm contracted to do the RCS X at Daytona Speedway. 
 
So all the questions you guys have, I've done that for 20 years. I am a contractor. I build these parks. I build them privately, I build them publicly, I've been involved with all of the factory teams, I have managed their test facilities for them, all throughout California. So the questions and concerns that you have, I have data for all of those things. 
 
It's great. I'm a Pope County resident born and raised. It is awesome I am involved with that project with the county. Doing something like this, I'm just here to show support that this can and will be successful for you guys for Volusia County. I would love to be able to be an advocate and a consultant, whatever it is that I may help you along with this. This is what I've done. I mean, I have worked with swift mud through the years, I have to adhere to all of their – I built the park up in Jacksonville. Dealt with St. John's water management District. So many of the concerns you guys have had as far as how to build it, where to get the dirt, Mr Mar said, there are so many ways to cut costs on this thing. 
 
This thing can absolutely be done at about substantially less rate than what has been proposed. This is my specialty. So that is why I am here to offer that assistance in whatever capacity that is and I just appreciate the opportunity to speak. I know it is late but I wanted to offer that because this is – doing what you guys are about to build it's what I've done for 20 years. All throughout the Florida, the country, and world. They key. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you. 
 
(Applause)  
 
Does Jody want to speak? Are you the blonde referenced earlier? 
 
SPEAKER: 
I am Jody (unknown name), I actually the transporter and mechanic for that rider and we race over the country, national level. Previously Volusia County resident for many years. We had to unfortunately Volusia County for me to pursue the level of training that I needed to get for my child. 
 
I was driving way too many hours during the week, one hour here, 1.5 hours there, wherever we need to be and I need to translate us to another location so that we can actually have a life and not to spend it on the road. 
 
There is some stuff I want to talk about, but you guys kind of opened up new conversation, and I am obviously don't have enough time to talk about it, I employ you to reach out to these guys in this panel. We've been to the big events, and no offense to Hunden Strategic Partners, they don't live it like we do. 
 
I don't want my kid on the track past night, noise levels, we are off the track by night. During the day is intermittent with the different sized bikes, you might have quiet bikes for a while, and then a rush of the louder bikes, and it is something that makes it more tolerable to whoever might hear it that would live adjacent to the track. 
 
I wish we could just have a Q&A with all these people, and anything you guys would want to know, everybody here has been doing it for a decade. It is almost laughable to hire an outside study, unless it is required by the County, when you have so many professionals and have been doing it for so long sitting right in their chairs. That's it. Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you. Don, I'm wondering, do the riders stagger when they leave? Nevermind. Is Nate Ingram wanting to speak? See what you started now? 
 
SPEAKER: 
I am real state worker and we don't ever talk brief, we want to talk in part of everybody. I still of Volusia County resident, I live in a large urban area called Samsula, I'm practically neighbor. I'm excited about it coming in, we did not have a local facility. The folks that have been here for five hours, listening to the statements about the abilities of the Council, we are here to support you. 
 
It's a rarity to come in and talk about the counselor doing, we want to support you. The kids, some I've them I've been watching on little biktes and now I watch them on television which is cool. I'm glad we are doing this, moving forward with this.  
 
If you have questions with this, any parents here can help you with logistics, dry camping, anything like that. We do have tremendous assets here and the fact that Jason Baker is here today, he traveled probably great expense because there's a dozer somewhere that is calling his name. He felt it was that important to be here instead of dealing with the international clients. 
 
That should tell you, he is not here for himself, he is here to support the sport. I going to end it here. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
(unknown name), pass, John Nicholson, pass.  
 
SPEAKER: 
John Nicholson, Daytona Beach side. I act like I am from the city that was a small city, when I worked at the University – at the airport in Miami, another small city packed up a small business and headed north to Daytona Beach. It has done well in Daytona Beach, (unknown name) University. 
 
Years ago, gentlemen wanted to start a racing club. Bill France leased some land from the county, and built a track. You already have your image of what you want to do on this property. It is county property, that the racetrack sits on. It is county property that generates you'd be surprised how many billions of dollars into the city of Daytona Beach. 
 
What I'm asking you is, one, no to what you're planning. Two, that it be the largest dirt track in the United States. That it would be the finest dirt track in the United States. Daytona Beach has nine events over 125,000 people. We have over 12,000 hotel rooms. Whatever you put out there, we are ready for. We have two RV parks within five-minute drives of this location. So you have your RV park that you need, and driving five minutes is not that far to ask, in the beginning. 
 
I don't like the site that you have chosen. It is right next to a bunch of houses. They say 1000 feet, but that road goes down even further and they are going to build homes on it. Within 100 and 200 feet you're going to have houses. Why ask for trouble? There's another location, where you don't have to build the road, it is far from any house, so when you come into the landfill, that administrative office, there is a road to the right. Put it right there, it is surrounded by landfill. Nobody is going to be bothered by it. 
 
You don't have to build the road. We have equipment, believe it or not, the landfill that moves dirt. We can build a track within one year. We can take those trees out, do all we need to do, at very little expense. We have what is called racing and rec, for funding. We have ECHO for funding. We have free land. We have a company that does this for a living, Daytona international Speedway does this for a living. 
 
(Bell rings) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Amanda (unknown name) 
 
SPEAKER: 
Hello, I had a speech filled out but I don't need it. My son started writing at five years old. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Make sure you're speaking to the microphone. 
 
SPEAKER: 
My son started writing at five years old and wanted dirt bike and I told him no, and as you can ride a bicycle with training wheels. He took the training wheels off, and the rest is history and he is almost 17 years old. Since then every weekend, riding a dirt bike, we have to travel. He is national level and we don't have any facilities in Volusia County. Our only option was for him to move live in an RV in a different area up in Jacksonville, or down south. 
 
Being a mom of a 17-year-old, that is kind of rough. If there is one here Volusia County, we would be right here we lived, so that is perfect. I think it brings families together every weekend, every holiday, Mini O's, is Thanksgiving, literally every Thanksgiving we are all together. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
You are in New Smyrna? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Yes. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Very good. Andrea Lieber? From South Daytona. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Andrea from South Daytona but for two years, my husband and I were in California for 39, and we left and I could not be more prouder to be a Volusia County citizen than I am today. 
 
My husband and I own an online virtual school called Ontrack school, because our son who is 32 was a national champion and also raised in Europe. 90% of the students on the school are motocross rider, and just like many of the people here have said, we are a family. This aport is just – look at these people.  
 
We hung out for five hours because that is what we do, and when we did learn about what Don's initiative was, I am so excited. If any of my high school students were here tonight I would give them a year's credit of civics, because this conversation is so positive, it is not a no, it is looking for the best place for this, and utilizing the resources that you have. 
 
If there's anything I can do as an educator, we are an advocate for racing, I would love to be a part of it. Thank you. 
 
(Applause)

 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you. Mike Rogers? Thank you, Mike. Jason Mara? Again? Thank you for your input tonight. JJ Mendez. Come on! You are the one Don wanted to hear from. 
 
SPEAKER: 
(away from mic) how are you? JJ Mendez from Massachusetts, I am a cop up there and I own excavation business and a track. It's great what you are doing, it takes them off the street, you don't have to worry about them trespassing. 
 
Like we said earlier with the tract you can cut the cost you have, I saw, I laughed at when Don showed it to me I thought it was ridiculous, you can do a lot cheaper. 
 
I want to save everything is great, get rid of the experts doing all of your analysis, and look at everyone behind you as we said earlier and talk to us, we know how to build the track, we know what you guys need. We don't need them to give us these little numbers and tell us what they think we need. We don't need to go by that. I think you can reach out to us and get our numbers and go from there. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you. Did you bring any (unknown term) down with you? 
 
SPEAKER: 
No, but I can send some. (Laughs) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Logan. Tell us where you are from, tell us how old you really are, and tell us where you rank. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I am Logan (unknown name), I grew up in Deltona. We just recently moved to Ormond. My dad is in Ormond, my mom is a New Smyrna. I am 16. My mom was the one that said, if you had to take the training wheels off to hit the dirt bike, and I really wanted the dirtbike, so I did just that. I've had fallen a few times but I learned. 
 
When you go to these tracks, we are driving an hour and 1/2, maybe more, hour and a half is minimal. We are spending gas money, time away from the family, and when we go to long events yes we bring family, but it's not just your family at the tracks with your with everyone's family, and one person needs help, everyone helps them. It is not that it is a – we show up, we do our thing and leave, at the same time. We go staggered. One class finishes, they leave, and the next one does. It's not like we all leave at 5 o'clock – we do at different time. 
 
I grew up and we had to travel. That took time away from me learning how to ride the bike, from my parents being able to work and provide for the family. If we do have a track in Volusia County it would make it easier on the families. I would be able to not have to travel as much, and be home at night and not have to sleep in an RV. Yes, RVs are comfortable, we don't have to have hookups, sewer, we gladly live without the power hookups and stuff. It makes it nice but we don't have to have it. That's all. 
 
(Applause) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you very much. Your mom is raising a salesman. Tristan Lane?  
 
SPEAKER: 
Hello. I am Tristen Lane. I grew up right here in DeeLayne Florida. I speak well to this. Growing up writing here was difficult. I started in my backyard writing in the sand and eventually rode all the trails. I think I wrote every possible area in the land. I needed this opportunity greatly. I'm actually envious of these future kids who will really love it and they will help them a ton. I've travelled the whole country. Currently I am a professional motocross and Supercross racer so being able to do this is my dream and it would keep these kids out of trouble and it has steered my life in a great direction getting to race in different countries and truly living out my dream. 
 
I ask you guys hear us all out and understand this board as a family support environment and it has given me so much. I really think it will help the community and as they have mentioned, we love to spend money in this sport (Laughs) We love to go support all the local areas so I think it would help economically speaking a lot and yes, I just think it'll be a really good thing all around. Take you for hearing us out. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
How old are you? 
 
SPEAKER: 
26. 
 
(Applause) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you. Young Mr Dempsey? 
 
(Multiple speakers) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
He passed? Do you know who your father is? 
 
(Laughter) 
 
(Multiple speakers) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you all for participating. OK, we have a motion on the floor from Don Dempsey. Although I'm confused, the motion was to bring back information on B and C? 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
No, I amended the motion for a, B, and C. You can dedicate as much time to a as you can possibly want because I said B and C are into it so really I don't care but what I would like to do is get to the vote. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
That's what I'm asking for. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Can we make it for BMC? 
 


JAKE JOHANSSON: 
No I already amended it for B and C so that is my motion and I am setting. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK motion on the floor to bring in a, B, and C by Jake Johansson and I get the second was Don Dempsey? I don't know. There is no discussion, all in favour say I? 
 
ALL: 
Aye 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Any opposed? It will come back when staff is ready. 
 
Thank you while I very much. 
 
(Applause) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
As we move on to item 6, before, Cyrus, before you go, I want to say since the airport was brought up, you are killing it with Avilo Airlines and you scared off Melbourne and you are making money for us. Thank you! 
 
Item 6 is contract with Halifax Paving Inc. Who is doing this, Tadd? 
 
(Multiple speakers) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK, tad. Contract with Halifax Paving Inc. for the Daytona Beach International Airport parcel 62. 
 
TADD KASBEER: 
Good evening, County engineer. This is the approval of construction contract with Halifax Paving for $5.9 million to repave -- regraded the area known as parcel 62 which is in the south central section of the airport. North of Bellevue. It will pull sand or filled from this southern side of Bellevue. It basically supports the master plan that had been previously up approved for the overall site but it's basically just moving the dirt from one side to the other. The vast majority of the funding comes from federal grant from the EDA and the airport is making up the remaining amount. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK. And 3,308,000 is from grants? 
 
TADD KASBEER: 
Yes, sir. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Alright, David Santiago? 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Approved. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Seconded. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
David Santiago make a motion to approve, seconded by a belief Danny Robins. David, do you have a comment? A The Vivienne (Indiscernible). 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Anyone have a comment? Questions for Tad? All in favour say aye. 
 
ALL: 
Aye. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Any opposed? Motion carried seven – zero. Item 7A. Update of bills being considered in the 2024 legislative session. John Booker? 
 
JOHN BOOKER: 
Council, John Booker, government affairs support Volusia County. The manager asked me to pull a couple of the bills that we are looking at and filtering through the system. In Tallahassee. I have done that, tried to give you a bit of a microcosm of what the legislature is up to. If there are any questions, there is a short recitation of what the bills are attempting to do. And so if you do have any questions about that, if there are bills not on this list, I'd be more than happy to get back with you at another moment in time where I can see what happened today, for one, on a couple of the bills. 
 
With that, if you do have any questions or comments, or anything. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
how long do we have? 
 
JOHN BOOKER: 
March 8, so 21 days? I'm not sure. But budget is still being worked on. So some of the issues on the policy side won't be really resolved until the conference chairs get together. They do allocations, they figure out, they bump it up to eventually the speaker into president of the Senate trying to figure some things out. They have to approve the budget. They have a three day period where, so, the Tuesday before the Friday of the eighth, they would need to finish that budget process in order to have a three-day cooling-off period. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK. I guess I really – George, before I ... 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
Yes, the purpose of this item is not only to inform you but also to seek out, would you like to add any of these to our legislative agenda to actively support, oppose, or monitoring? That is what we are asking here today. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK. Jake Johansson? Maybe to answer your question? 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Yes sir. There is a lot of bills that are in both House and Senate that affect local rule. Or home rule. And some of them make sense to me. Some of them don't make sense to me and this is throughout my time here, my nine years or eight years I have been down here in Volusia County. 
 
I think it is important, whether that make sense or not, to oppose them by and large or at least have that discussion whenever it comes to home rule. To discuss opposing them actively. And that is where John can come in and tell us whether the FAC supports what we want to do or doesn't and why. But, you know, every time I call a representative or my senator, the answer is "that ship has already sailed." Or, "I'm not going to oppose the speaker." Or something. And these are home rule issues. So I think it's important that we articulate to John as a counsel, I tell him what I think but he doesn't give a damn what I think, he gives a damn what we think as a council. 
 
So I think whenever we have a problem, during legislative session, we ought to at least get a brief on these every once in a while and decide what to do instead of just letting it go along and have people comment to us that we are not doing anything. 
 
In that vein, I go through this list of bills, I see what he sends on Friday nights, and because we don't act, I kind of engage myself but I think it is important that we engage as a council.  
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
I do as well. Just lost it ... do you or does the County Attorney or County Manager or anybody, I'm looking at- Jake just said, you know, oppose him. Senate Bill 328, live local part two. Is that an improvement or does it make it worse? 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
It depends on who you are, right? 
 
SPEAKER: 
I will let Paolo address that. 
 
PAOLO SORIA: 
I believe this bill is characterized as more or less like a glitch bill. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
A what? 
 
PAOLO SORIA: 
Glitch bill. One thing is it is a little of both. They are still keeping the primary factors of live local so preemption is still an issue. They are still preempting all local governments. What they are doing is amending some of the hype provisions. Set up a height provision is, you know, it doesn't apply adjacent to military institutes, it doesn't apply in your airport overlays where height is an FAA regulated aspect. I think they also change the height provision to I think 1.5 Max storage or whatever is greater. Some given some take. 
 
They also add I think floor area ratio to one of those things that is preempted. I did then you must accommodate and they also added you must accommodate some of the parking provisions. So it is not – it is essentially a more clarification preemption. Not really anything that is more beneficial for me, hey, you are preempted less. We just now understand a little more where we are being preempted rather than being anything and everything. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Do we have anybody actively opposing it? Do we have a lobbyist that is opposing it or Mr Booker or trying to make it better? 
 
MICHAEL G DYER: 
Yes, that could be the result of pressure here. Paolo, if you don't mind me asking, this glitch bill before, would it be in your understanding and improvement at least from what is on the books today? 
 
PAOLO SORIA: 
It would be a clarification. I'm not sure I would characterize it – we will know how preemption works and other things of height adjacent to a military Institute and height adjacent in an airport overlay. It also fixes some of the odd things like floor area ratio. 
 
Where yes, you know, you have to accommodate all that density but you are still limiting the maximum square footage that you can fit all those units in. So they included some of those provisions. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Go ahead, George. 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
Will add a little bit. If you take these as a whole, 328 is neutral but all the rest of these heard us in some shape, form, or another. You could start off with FRS and yes, depending on, you know ... there is a little philosophical, I guess, thought therefore retirees but I guess I would say it's going to cost quite a bit of money. Soy think overall, you're looking at between, for the whole across all of our funds, in the neighbourhood of $10 million. So another train.  
 
Building regulations. Again, it is already pretty difficult to meet some of the time frames and requirements we need to. I think it is not necessary. Again, that should be more of a local decision. HB 479 could be very harmful to us because we use an impact fee system. This is going to make it more difficult to collect impact fees and stuff in cities, and as we talked about today, a lot of building goes on in cities and it affects our roads. If we cannot collect the impact fees, or if we have issues – it makes it more difficult in an already difficult situation. I would be against that. 
 
HB 609 – we don't do – you eliminated the business tax receipts so this really doesn't matter to us. In 1195, again, that is taking away our local ability – we have been very responsible, we have driven the millage rate down, either to rollback, or some portion of rollback every year. 
 
HB 1624, that is what Mike talked to you about, a lot of the real harmful stuff Has been taken out, but again, but I wouldn't support it. I wouldn't support 1628. It takes away our authority. 
 
And this last one, WMC five taxation, this can be particularly onerous, because it affects the part of the tourist tax that funds our Ocean Center. Our Ocean Center – yes we have debt it would not apply as it is written, but we also operate the Ocean Center, as was pointed out earlier. It was subsidized by this tax, it is this tax, we don't ever use property ta and this would require after some years going back out for referendum. Again, I don't think it is helpful, at all, for this particular tax, to have that. 
 
We are unique and we are only one of three counties that have it separated the way it is. It would have no effect as written on the other side of the tourist tax which is more interest at times, but that is the advertising side, this has nothing to do with that. Really just affect our ability with the Ocean Center. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK. Thank you. 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
My recommendation would be to oppose them all, with the exception of you can be neutral on and just monitor SB 328.  
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
The stuff you said from 6024 has been taken out, do we know if it's going to reappear and go somewhere if that sometimes happens? 
 
JOHN BOOKER: 
You wait for 430 in the afternoon. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
You haven't seen it. 
 
MICHAEL G DYER: 
That language could reappear. It may not. There is still some language in it, 1628, that still is hostile to local government authority. It is putting more work on city and county governing bodies, when they enact ordinances, to have business impact statements, it is going to slow down – it is removing exemptions for the zoning ordinances and so on. It is going to slow down your ability to act in ordinances, it's going to take more work. It revises the process for someone to attack one year ordinances, and removes the same exemptions for your land development regulations, largely from – it subjects them to the challenge process. 
 
From a local government standpoint, I would say, they are not local government friendly, they are putting more requirements on you.  
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Which leads me to, I think we should vigorously oppose them. We should see with the rest of the council thanks, when we get there. John, I will reiterate to you, 1624 and 28, please, let me know. When I need to go up there, and speak to a committee, or whoever.  
 
Regardless of what everybody else wants you to do, I want to oppose those, I have sent letters to Paul Ritter and Tom Leek, and Sen. (unknown name), and to representatives. 
 
MICHAEL G DYER: 
1624, I have reported you in the past on it – it is narrow, but it is deep and it reminds me of the live local act, just in different context. Your utilities such as power, for example, if they wanted to have what they call resilience facility, which would allow for storages of liquefied natural gas, Paolo? Yes. Natural gas, to be stored, and maintain manufacturing and commercial. Regardless of whether you have made that a permitted use. So, remind me of the live local, in that way. 
 
From a local government standpoint, it definitely eats away at your authority, and regulated the categories of where certain uses are located. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you, I think we should be concerned with that. David Santiago? 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Thank you, Mr Chair. When we say opposed, what does that mean?... you are right, we can't send John up there and say send all three of these, you will be wasting your time. I certainly think the Florida one is what we should be in the trenches with. The house has pushed his big time and lost it. They haven't pushed it in the Senate bill and they are trying to negotiate it in the budget. So the house is taking a position of strength with budget to try to convince the Senate so I would say that is a good one, focus real efforts in the Senate to stay strong. 
 
The house is all in. You are wasting your time. Focus in the Senate. ... The live local, that's a priority of the Senate President. You are wasting your time, whether you agree with it or not. You are still making a position statement that I wouldn't waste any real energy on that. 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
And that one, honestly, as was pointed out, monitor it. If all of a sudden it get worse then maybe a call to arms but as you said, we have already been told where it is a priority. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I would pick certainly our retirement one and maybe one or two others. We are less than three weeks away from the finish of this. Take your time important. That's just my thoughts. I agree with opposing them all on paper. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Jake Johansson. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Yes sir. I'd like to clarify something here. The chair had mentioned that he was willing to go up with John and that he had written letters. I hope he did as your own person and not as the chairman. I'm a little concerned now because we each have one vote here and we are voting on what to oppose and I'm you didn't oppose something on our behalf without our knowledge. Can you please clarify that for me? 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Yes, I'd be glad to. I sent it under my name, as chairman, as opposed to it as any other one of you could have. In fact, I thought we were, the very first meeting six months ago, that we had about this I2 zoning, I think we instructed staff then to send letters. So I certainly did. 
 
I didn't send it for the entire Council. I sent it for me. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
And maybe I just need clarification being new to this part of it. But we are each one vote and we are an elected body, not a bunch of individuals. So I don't know really if I send a letter as Jake Johansson, County Counsel member at large to the Governor vehemently opposing something legally. Can I, Mike? 
 
SPEAKER: 
You can, however, I know one of the discussions you had as the Council is when a member does that, he wants to be clear that they are sending out on their own behalf and not the half of the bodies as you are saying. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
That is, as I understand our charter, when we are sitting here, we are a body. 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
And that's been discussed by this body before and yes you can do that, you just make it clear that it is you as an individual. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Alright, I am clear on that. 
 
SPEAKER: 
What I'm hearing you say is that she wants to ... 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
I want to know unless they're sending a letter of opposition on ... 
 
SPEAKER: 
I think it is a discussion. What I am hearing you say it is that if someone is sending a letter, you want to make sure it is clear in the letter they are not sending out on behalf of the body, they are sending it on their own behalf. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Yes, I guess that is it. And chairman, you clarify. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
I was real clear about that. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Alright, I'm good. And so, what these items, I think, there should be a way where we discuss or at least bring up – maybe not, it happened so quick, John, but early on as these bills come in and John sends us these things, that we have a section in the discussion section of one or both of our council meetings where we discuss legislative stuff, not just today but every meeting as it starts getting pretty busy because a lot of these might mean a lot to, let's say, Councilman Santiago. 
 
We just talked about the energy resources, right? And you Barry and Duke Power, they are storing hydrogen, right? They have hydrogen, oxygen solar beta problem where they are developing it right now. 
 
You might have a concern about that. We might not elsewhere in the county. So I think it is important that we discuss it because what might be one present issue might not be another person's issue and as Mr Kent says, if it is important to you, it might be important to me. So I want to be able to discuss these things. Sometimes it is a rapid process and we are going to miss it but when we don't, I think we ought to take a look at them and comment on the ones that we think are important. So we can band together and vote so the chairman can send one on our behalf up there and say, "our council thinks this is way around." And go up there with John and fight the fight. So I think it is important that we all have buy-in on what we are opposing it sounds like we are there now but I think we ought to do this more often. Thank you, chairman. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Danny Robins. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Thanks, Chair. I would like to see a sketch – I feel like we are in the fourth quarter. Third or fourth, to be opposing some of the stuff. Granted I am opposed to it but it almost feels like we are just going through the motions on it just to say oh, we oppose it. If we actually want to have a dog in the fight, and if we are genuine about having these as real issues, I would just encourage us to band together and unite when it comes to that. Unfortunately, you know, once you become an elected official, we can write all the letters we want our go to board meetings or advisory meetings or whatever. You can't just take that hat off. And as Mr Johansson had stated, it has been a concern of mine because it has happened multiple times in the past. 
 
I personally at this point would like if anyone one of us is going to send a letter to hire up our legislation, however, that it be vetted by her legal staff. Under then the Council be provided that before that thing is shipped off. 
 
Because it doesn't paint a good picture. We then truly look divided. We don't look like we are on the same page and it looks like cats going in all directions. It is not professional, in my opinion. So I concur with Mr Johansson, I would personally like to see any letter that we would like to send because we all may have something to add. And we are stronger together. So, that is my two cents. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK. Well, let's find out. I incorrectly assumed that this counsel was opposed to 1624 and 1628. I don't think I've been in a single staff meeting where we didn't talk about this, that, I know the staff was extreme and worried about losing our own ability to regulate zoning and land use. 
 
And I have encouraged them to oppose it. I have opposed those two and I have talked to all of our Volusia rep delegation about it. So let's ask the question. Does the Council as a whole wants to direct staff to oppose 1624 and 1628 at least to the point where we are making it more palatable for local government to do its job besides going to ribbon-cutting's? 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I'll chime in. I thing I said I was OK with opposing all of them. At least me. I see heads bobbing. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
I'm not opposed to either, Chairman, but when our staff send something to somebody, they send us a copy. I would like to see the copies, that's all. They vehemently oppose. Show me what you are writing if you are writing something. If John is going up there, he is going to argue and I watch on TV or go up there and watch it with him. I just want to be aware of what we are doing. 
 
So anything that goes to the state, to the Governor, to the representatives or Senate, on Volusia County letterhead, I think ought to be readily accessible by the elected officials if it has been sent by an elected official. Whether it is legal or not, the assumption is when it gets up there that you represent the government. So I think it is important that we have it. 
 
Unless you don't want somebody to see something, it should be easy. You sent it out, give it to George and Mike, and they send it out saying, "this went out to representative Lee and the legislators today". 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I think my name was up there and it came off but along the same lines of the question you asked. You know, I would be OK with seeing if we can adopt a policy when it comes to utilizing the County letterhead. And I would be OK with being restricted to if I wanted to send any letter to any government entity elected or not or any agency, and utilize the County letterhead, I would inform the Council first and say this is my position and get advice there. 
 
Otherwise, I would say I would send the letter on my own personal letterhead. I think there I would be OK that I am a member of the Volusia County Council, this is my personal opinion. But I'll tell you if I received a letter, Mr Chairman, regardless of the position. If I received a letter as a legislator that had a letterhead from the county, instead, it was – I'll just use your title since we are discussing yours, from the County Chair. I would probably think that is the position of the Council. 
 
I could see that misinterpretation. So if we want to be clear and hold everybody equal, we have a policy that no letterhead is used unless it is approved by the Council to send a letter to another governing body, agency, otherwise if it is your individual opinion, send it in your own personal letterhead. And that keeps it clean. I don't know how the Council feels. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK, since you are asking me that question, I'll respond to it. I didn't send letters on the letterhead. I use my email. I sent them on email which is public information. So I will do you one better. From now on, I'll just make them public and then you will know and every bit else will know what I am asking. 
 
If I have a legal topic, I called Mike order, I'll call Mike and sometimes he will listen me to someone else so I haven't – I'm not sending anything on letterhead. I'm sending it on the County, Volusia.org email. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
And I am not trying to silence you, Mr chair. I you have a voice and I want to encourage everybody's voice. It is just a matter of clarity and messaging to ensure that whoever the recipient is understands. That's all it is about. We all have our own opinions. It is not about silencing you. I want to make sure that is clear. Another trench do that. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK. George, your name is still up, did you – ...? 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
Just to say, Mr Johansson, we will be more frequent. We did start in January. And we came up with a base of items that we knew of at the time and one of them was opposing any preemptive action. 
 
So we have, on some of these bills, because they are essentially preemption, we have opposed them. But as they get more specific, you know, that is where I felt like it was important to update. And that is really what today was. And like I say, other than the 328 which we can monitor, we can at least have it on the record that we opposed all the rest. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Thank you very much George for the complication and I support that, I think that is a good play. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Was that it, Jake? Vice Chair. 
 
TROY KENT: 
Thank you. I will just briefly weigh in on this. I have spoken as a County councilman in front of the Ormond Beach city commission in front of the holy hill city commission. They are both municipalities in my district. And councilman, I want you to know both times, all the tapes. When I get up and speak I give my name at my address and I then say, "my comments are coming as Troy Kent, resident of the Volusia County or Ormond Beach." I would never try to speak on any of your behalf, ever. 
 
And I would never send a letter with my name on the letter. And I've gotta tell you, you know, none of you know that. We have the sunshine – well, we don't talk about this. It came to an uncomfortable conversation between staff and myself to get me letterhead with my name on it. It was like this push back I had because of a problem that had happened earlier. And I said, "I don't care about what someone else did. I feel like you are treating me like a child. I am in the seat. I have earned the seat. And this title, but I want my letterhead. And I promise to give you a copy of whatever I sent. Even if it says thank you to whoever. I'll give you a copy, but I wanted." 
 
And there was this pushback from staff not to get it because of a situation. So I just want you gentlemen to know, I will never send a letter to a government body with a position statement on my own ever. I will always come to you before hand and if I can't get to you before a meeting, then I will reach out to George and see what we can do about – and Mike – about having a special meeting so we can agree on something. That is just me. And I will tell you, if the mayor of Ormond Beach with my time on the city commission had ever done something like that, insinuating the commission of warm integrate with something without us talking about it, it would have been an uncomfortable moment. I would not have like that. That doesn't feel good. I don't want to do it to you because I wouldn't want you to do that to me, if that makes sense. That is not a feel-good moment. There is nothing wrong with what you said, I think, on your own, with your own letterhead or whatever. 
 
Not letterhead, your own personal stationery, saying hey, this is how I feel. I also don't feel like the seven of us would be far off on many issues so if we need to come back to the selected body and get approval, then let's do that. We are planters, all of us. We can plan in advance and give staff that information, and have it come from the chairman or better yet have all of our signatures on it. I think that is even more impactful to the guy sitting on my right who served eight years in the state legislature. I think that is what you are looking for, probably, was letters from municipalities with all signatures from all elected members because that is a statement, right? Thank you.  
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
OK, John, I think that is it. We are all good with supporting and opposing everything except for 328 which we will monitor. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Motion by David Santiago, second by Jake Johansson to oppose all of the laws and all the legislations that you have just mentioned, for the preemption legislation. All in favor say aye, any opposed? 
 
To wrap it up in my behalf, I will sure everyone of you, that I have never spoken before you on your behalf. 
 
OK, item 8. 
 
KARISSA GREEN: 
Item 8 is appointment to the tourist counsel, you have one applicant who happened to be in a convent.  
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Who are we approving?