Session Transcript: 05-12-2023   VC-CCM-Volusia County Council Meeting -(Ai-Live)
 
*Captioners standing by 
 
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JEFFREY S BROWER: 
If everyone wants to find a seat, we will start in 60 seconds. 
 
SPEAKER: 
What a beautiful home Matt lives in. 
 
SPEAKER: 
You like my chalet? 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
We will get started and call the December 5, 2023 County Council meeting to order at 9:01 AM. Welcome everybody here. (Static) just to give you a brief run-down of how we start for those of you that might not know, in just a second, I will ask everyone to stand who might care to stand for the invocation in the Pledge of Allegiance. The invocation is open to any faith group a Voluisa County if you would like to participate, please send an email to KGreen@volusia.org. 
 
And Karissa Green over here will get you set up to participate. So to start, if you would like to stand, please stand for the invocation and this morning it is by pastor Tommy Clayton of Gracelife Church in Deltona. 
 
PASTOR TOMMY CLAYTON: 
It's an honor to be here as always. Heavenly father thank you for every good gift you give us from above. You established families, the church and the government. Those are all yes Lord to help society and culture flourish and thrive. I think for the men and women on this counsel who have served this county in the city so well. (Static) we pause and acknowledge the need for wisdom and they have many issues and matters that come before them that have complexities and components on a need wisdom Lord please give them that. There's tough decisions to be made and we pray that you give them integrity Lord that they would serve honorably and above reproach and they maintained (Static) the trust they have earned by the fact they were voted in office and have the confidence, the people who voted them here Lord, they maintain that. We pray for their protection and we protect them Lord, they are married and have families, protect the spouses and grandchildren and preserve them Lord. Thank you for this county and this council. And we ask the blessings in Christ's name. Amen. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Attention to the flag for the Pledge of Allegiance. 
 
ALL: 
(Pledge of Allegiance) (Static) 
 
(Static) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
(Static) Carisa would you call the roll please… 
 
KARISSA GREEN: 
Mr Santiago, Mr Dempsey, Mr Kent, Mr Reinhart… Mr Robins, Mr Brower. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Let the record reflect we have a physical quorum present here at the meeting but I do need a motion from a member to recognize councilmember Matt Reinhart to participate and vote virtually. Due to an extraordinary circumstance involving illness, serious medical condition or physical disability. We hope it's not (indiscernible). (Static) 
 
SPEAKER: 
I will second the motion. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Vice Chair Robins makes the motion for Matt Reinhart to dissipate and vote seconded by Troy Kent, all in favor say 'aye'? Any opposed? Matt you are in and remember your mic is live. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
Yes sir. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Motion carries 7 to 0. We will start our meeting as we always do with public participation. Did you have one more? (Static) when I call your name, please just come to the front and tell us your name and where you are from. You don't have to give your whole address for safety reasons… (Static) three minutes to speak to the Council and (Static) there is, you will notice on the screen above me and on the monitor on the podium here, that there will be a clock (Static) with a time on it that you can track your time. 
 
First we have Nicole Gregory. Nobody ever likes going first. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Good morning councilmembers. I'm Nicole Gregory resident of Voluisa County I live on Roxborough court here in DeLand. Thank you for taking the time to hear what we have to say today I'm here on behalf of myself and other residents that live on this (indiscernible) drive in DeLand last month I entered a scary and really big problem for me and my family. 
 
The biggest issue with the events that happened on November 18 comes with the amount of time it took for the local fire department to respond to a call I placed. I do want to start by saying I don't blame the fire department or 911 dispatcher anything for this event. I truly appreciate what they do and the services they provide for us. But on the night of November 18, I placed a call to 911 at 9:17 PM. For help with what I thought could be a very bad fire going on at the property next to my house. 
 
They were burning brush and it was getting big. After obtaining the run report, because it took so long, it is known that the fire department did not actually make it to the address where the fire was until 9:57 PM. So that's a total of 40 minutes for an actual respond time. When according to Google Maps the fire department is 1.6 miles away in six minutes from my house. 
 
Reason being it states in the run report, that they brought a rig and were unable to access the road, they turned around to go back to the department and picked up a brush truck and came back so they could get to my house. It states in the run report, they had to go back for the truck because they were unable to access location due to hazards. 
 
Well, the hazard is my road. So, after the fire to permit showed up and spoke to me, they looked me directly in the eye and said if my – my road is completely inaccessible. If my house is actually on fire at that moment they were be nothing they can do to help because they could not get a rig down the road I live on. 
 
That is pretty terrifying to think. I have kids, if they are cooking toast and something happens and they can't get to my house to save my kids or house, it's pretty – it's a scary incident. 
 
It does state on the sign wing into my road that it is 911 accessible. I own the property on Roxborough since February 2022. This year, we paid $1150.41 in the fire tax. We also paid $435.19 in the Public Safety tax. That's $1500 I paid for what? I stated that the fire department themselves said my house would've burned to the ground and there's nothing they could have done. After looking at what other residents of the land is paying for similar properties, they are paying the same if not less in taxes. And they are living on a paved road that's 100% 911 accessible to them anytime. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I was looking for any help I can get. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
I want to explain how we conduct public participation. We don't respond to each speaker but I guarantee you that usually speakers, before they leave the room, staff has dealt with them and this council will deal with issues as well. Don't think the fact that everybody here (Static) isn't responding to whatever your concern is when you come up to talk, we don't care or (Static). Thank you. Adam Evans. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Good morning councilmembers. Before I begin I would like my neighbors to stand in a show of solidarity on this matter. (Static) to follow up with what Ms Gregory had to say I'm Adam Evans lifelong Voluisa County resident at (Place). An issue has come to light from the response of the fire (indiscernible) I want to thank Voluisa County fire rescue for what they provide. (indiscernible) where the road being impossible for emergency vehicles. When a true emergency happens, after 40 minutes the outcome regardless of how many (1)'s dispatch will be dire (Away from mic). To further my point I was told by (indiscernible) personnel. This not only does a disservice to us taxpayers but to the first responders who would be helpless to assist one of us in need, further perpetuating the PTSD that is commonly associated with emergency services. This neighborhood may not be the wealthiest are but we pay the same amount of taxes for services. 
 
Them of a strong opinion we are being left behind. In total this incident has proven we as a neighborhood are unable to receive services I'm to collectively pay for them, $13,662.64 in fire and safety texts each year. Said taxes are only increasing and becoming increasingly difficult for working-class to pay. There witnesses here who can attest that 20 years ago Road and (indiscernible) maintained the road setting a precedent. None of us are sure what is change between now and then. Sign on our streets says it's a 911 road which according to what representatives from (indiscernible) told us, it should be maintained for emergency vehicle access. In the same conversation they tell me it's a true (indiscernible) road and have no responsibility to maintain it. If this is the case now homeowners are aware. I've spoken to the fire department about it and they wrote up our road as well. We tirelessly did what we could to make it possible for not only (indiscernible) but (Static) as well. The road is come to a point where there no longer a base to work with and we cannot maintain it with the equipment we have at our disposal. We ask that the road be maintained as a true number one Road. We will continue to pay taxes for it. Thank you for your time. 
 
(Static) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Paul Richardson. (Static) 
 
SPEAKER: 
Good morning counsel my name is Paul Richardson of DeLand. I get it, small limited government are my (indiscernible). When I hear one billion-dollar budget when people mention the Voluisa County budget it makes me wince a little. I'm a capitol C conservative and reject anarchy. There needs to be a government. The Voluisa County government works for the tax parent keeps taxes as low as possible and I call that a win. Since time immemorial, governments of every type have supported a cultural and academics – culture and academics. Our (indiscernible) culture is what ties our society together. 
 
I'm going to be (indiscernible) right now. (Static) I know for a fact all of you are Republicans and we have been terrible when it comes to cultural and academic (indiscernible). We have absolutely given up on both of those fronts (indiscernible) (Static). This has led to an entertainment industry and academic (indiscernible) rotten to the core. (indiscernible) reversing that (indiscernible). 
 
If you want strong conservative culture here in this county, we need a sale at that table. We must prove to artist and cultural nonprofits that we are not hostile (indiscernible) to them. That's why signed up for this cultural committee and the library advisory board. Again, get that knee-jerk reaction to give tax money to artists. However the cost per grant gives money to non-profit groups under certain guidelines. I myself made it a point to highlight importance of being (indiscernible) even to the nonprofit groups. 
 
I will… (indiscernible) today so (indiscernible) to schedule special workshops so you find (indiscernible). And the cultural counsel can discuss what the important culture grant does. I am new to this too, and I would get a lot out of this proposed workshop as well. 
 
God bless Volusia County, God bless America, and God bless (Unknown Term) Israel. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Ricky Petty. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I want to thank the councilmembers this morning, it has been a while since I have done one of these. 
 
20 years ago, a judge gave me present time. This is why. 
 
One lady, Julie Martin, out of 575,000 people living in Volusia County is willing to open her heart and help sex offenders by providing them a place to stay. If she didn't give me that chance 6.5 years ago, I would not be where I am at today. She gave me that foundation, she gave me that one chance. 
 
Today, because she opened up her heart and gave me that chance, I manage 80 people on a daily basis for a multimillion dollar company. Without her I would not have had the chance. 
 
If you pass the bill for the living restrictions, that door closes for a lot of other people that need the same foundation. That one chance no one else will give them. Please don't do that. 
 
The current laws and ordinances that have been in place for almost 30 years now are working just fine. If they were not, you guys would have changed them a long time ago. If the system is not broken, please don't try to fix it. 
 
But if you choose to pass this bill enforce these people out in the woods, the county needs to build them something. They need shelter, water and electricity just like everyone else. 
 
These people have restrictions, requirements they have to keep. One being they are responsible to keep the GPS devices charged. You ain't charging nothing in the middle of the woods. There's no electricity. 
 
They need restrooms. Urinating in public is illegal in Florida no matter where you are at. So what message are we really sending? 
 
What about water? they need water to drink, they need water to shower with. I'm not going to hire you coming looking like a bomb. 
 
The financial burdens are overwhelming already. Passing this bill will make it virtually impossible for them to make it. 
 
One lady out of 575,000 people in Volusia County is willing to give people the chance. This bill is wrong, way wrong. Please don't pass it. 
 
You guys were elected to represent 575,000 people in Volusia County. That's everybody, not just the selected few. We need a chance. If you guys (Indiscernible) the chance it ain't going to work. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Julie Martin. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Good morning, my name is Julie Martin. I'm a Volusia County resident and have been renting to sex offenders for the last 16 years in Volusia County. 
 
I would like to continue with some more information I didn't get a chance to share with you last time. 
 
Just wanted you to know I am very careful in choosing the tenants that I do accept. I want to make sure they were a Volusia County resident prior to the conviction. 
 
I also speak to their officers on a daily basis. I am not here to let them slide just so I can collect rent. Either give it back to them if they are not going to do the right thing. 
 
If they are doing something wrong, I am on their case. I am speaking to their officer. I am the worst headache mother they've ever had in their entire life. 
 
I am also here to encourage them, because I want to be the proudest mother also ever had in their life, because they probably didn't have one before. And it is amazing what can happen if you just give them a chance. 
 
My tenants usually get jobs from two weeks of being released from prison. There are multiple companies that actually get a tax break or except getting the tax break by hiring convicted felons. We know where they are, we send our people there, and they are happy to share with each other. 
 
Living in a communal area, they get information from each other. It makes it easier on them. 
 
I want to share a story with you about three of my tenants. It was about 10 years ago, I got a phone call. There was a man dropped off in a parking lot that I owned. He was a paraplegic, he was in a hospital gown. Had no idea he was coming. We certainly didn't know what to do. 
 
I am not in assisted living. 
 
I go to the property, we call the probation officer, he is flabbergasted. He has no idea, no one told him. 
 
We take the man inside. Discuss it with a few of the tenants. By the next morning we had an idea. 
 
Two of the tenants volunteered to care for him. They showered him, they comforted him every day. They taught him how to help them take care of him. They did it until he died a year and 1/2 later. 
 
Yes, they made a mistake. But that mistake was a mistake. 
 
If you batter someone you are not on a registry. If you attempt murder, you are not on a registry. I realize some of them her children, but not all of them. So I think we need to look at this in a different manner than we have. 
 
Thank you so much. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Bennett Scott. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Good morning. 
 
My name is Bennett Scott, I spent almost 9 years in federal prison for my charge. Today I felt the need to voice my concerns for the proposed changes to the sex offender battery parameters and rules Volusia County. Existing laws in place to cover enough to limit offenders to be near schools, school bus stops, county parks, sports parks and beaches, etc. 
 
This new proposal to extend distances to anything involving children is tough. These new rules and guidelines would make it impossible to stay in the trailers and apartments, hotels, etc. which house the offenders. These new provisions would not allow offenders to live in most areas in Volusia County. These offenders are on probation, they cannot leave Volusia County. 
 
They cannot leave Volusia County, so they would end up homeless living in the woods were sent back to the already overcrowded prison systems. 
 
These men and women offenders are human beings who have served their sentences in prison. Most have 10+ years of probation and are required by law to attend weekly study sessions to improve their lives. 
 
Many offenders have no families – family members to assist them. The laws in Florida do not allow members of state and county and state approved halfway houses (?). 
 
All of the prisoners released or allowed in halfway houses. Today is a special day. (Indiscernible) day I was released from federal prison in 2016. I served 114 months of 120 month sentence. (Indiscernible) talking to a member of police in an adult chat room on the Internet. (Indiscernible) underage girls, there was no meeting, no hands on with a child, and no child pornography. 
 
I lost my wife to cancer at 47 years of age in 1997. My son was 13, my daughter was 13. I was arrested in my home on Saturday before Easter 2007. After one year of probation and house arrest, I was sentenced to 120 months (Indiscernible) low federal prison on March 5, 2008. I am still on probation, I am one of these men who lost everything. Everything. I lost everything. 
 
I was told my release papers I would not be able to see my grandchildren. My daughter started searching for a place to me to rent. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Thank you Bennett. 
 
What is your point? 
 
SPEAKER: 
(Away from mic) 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
John Nicholson. 
 
SPEAKER: 
John Nicholson, Daytona Beach side. 
 
I missed the last meeting so I don't know what was discussed, but I arrived back home; went out of town for the holidays. I immediately bought a newspaper, went to IHOP to read it, what should I see? The local page, the County Council. The argument you had two meetings ago with the school board. 
 
Now I attended that meeting. The article had nothing to do, from what I understood, as for what happened in the meeting. 
 
From the very beginning it appears that one of the council members, don't know whether I'm allowed to mention who, what, where, but you will know who it is, was prepared. 
 
I understand the school board knew that he was asking questions. Apparently the school board CFO thought that asking questions was not the right thing to do. It was disrespecting the people that were here. I didn't think so. 
 
Asking questions is asking questions. It's what you were supposed to do, right? So I'm going through the thing, and every single paragraph I'm writing little notes. They are asking you to go into your reserves to pay for something they are supposed to pay for. 
 
It mentions mutual aid. Mutual aid is schoolboard doesn't have to pay anything, the county has to pay all of it. The sheriff, his budget comes out of county funds. So they want the sheriff's portion of the county funds, and the county defined the school board portion of the mutual aid, which means the school board pays nothing in the county pays everything. 
 
As I go through this, I don't understand where this gentleman is coming from. 
 
I taught school for 20 years. There are things you can do and things you can't do. I understand him trying to protect his people. He says he had the more prepared. If you all will will call, more than once the woman at the Mike said, "I don't know, you have to ask the CFO. I don't know, you have to ask the CFO." 
 
If she says that two, three, four, five times, then she is not welcome here. 
 
Secondly, if it was that important, and it's only two meetings a year he has to go to. He should have rescheduled or could have asked for you all to reschedule it. It is a very simple thing to attack you all as a group, or as an individual as a group, which makes no sense to me. 
 
I know you don't need defending, but the public reads what is in the newspaper. Sorry to say they don't come here. I have come here often. I know what's going on, the public doesn't know, and they need to know. Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Thank you, Doyle Lewis. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Good morning councilmembers. Ladies and gentlemen of the audience, and anybody else listening to this meeting. 
 
My name is Doyle Lewis. I am an ex-contractor, master carpenter, master painter. Unemployed in Volusia County. 
 
I came here for one reason, now going to talk about two. 
 
The biggest reason why am talking today is about travel in Volusia County and the surrounding areas. How people lockdown their personal belongings in their vehicles, other skateboards, electric skateboards, electric bicycles, and how the consumption of fuel is a big part of this community with our population that is growing very fast. 
 
The entire reason why I believe in travel is because that gives you freedom. You don't have to stay in the trees like the gentleman was talking about. In Florida it is illegal to stay in the trees, even though grandpa used to do it all the time. Which, really is interesting. It is a conflicting law. 
 
I am having an issue personally with electric bicycles and bicycles being stolen, and with the population growing in people wanting (Indiscernible) bicycles when they can still ride to them, there are really no legal place to lock them down around the bus stops. 
 
If you lock it to the chair, it's illegal. If you lock it to the bus post it's illegal. If you lock it to a fence it is illegal. If it is locked to a tree is illegal. If it gets stolen they say you parked it in a illegal spot. 
 
That's an issue, when you look at that because that is a personal device and the only trepidation someone has, and also goes for electric four wheel scooters for disabled people and elderly people. (Indiscernible) or plug it in at Walmart or something, or Publix. 
 
That needs to be looked at. One of the speakers beforehand… Said who makes the decisions? It's OK to (indiscernible) to the decision. That's what is wrong with the United States federal government in Washington. They don't know how to get out of the indecision process. This is what is hurting the American working people and why people are losing their homes because our presidency (Static) is at stake. 
 
Our Congress is at stake (Static). All they seem to want to do is see who can win the fight and take the money from the taxpayers at work, every day that cannot come to these meetings like I can. God bless you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK, that concludes the public participation for this part of the meeting. We will move to item 1 which is the consent agenda. Does any councilmember have an item they would like to pull for discussion or for a vote? 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
I would like to make a motion... Nevermind there's a hand up. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
Not to pull chair, but just to comment... Like to pull item R. 
 
SPEAKER: 
May consent… 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Troy Kent makes a move to approve the agenda item… And I'm looking for his name… Jake Johansson. We will take the vote Matt and come back to you for your comment. All in favor, all in favor of passing the consent agenda say 'aye'? Any opposed? Passes a 7 to 0. Councilman Reinhart if you would like to speak to item R. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
Thank you chair. Just really quick this is something we implemented several years ago in booking and I always questioned the importance of it. And it was explained to me the amount of money and that has grown tremendously over the years when we house these individuals. And we do this report outcome I think it's a good thing and I'm happy to see – I want to make sure people understood why we are doing it. Federal government reimburses us for that so that's a good thing. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you for your comment. That brings us to item 2, renewal of children and family advisory board funding recommendations. Brad Burbaugh? 
 
BRAD BURBAUGH: 
Good morning I have directory… The request to fund the children family advisory board to fund services at $2.4 million for the most vulnerable children and families in our community. As you can see in the presentation the funding does not come close to meeting the need for services but the county is looking to the private market through a competitive bid process. That requires these agencies to collaborate to deliver these services traditionally performed by County government. The performance measures that we are using to see what the collective impact of this funding was as well as compliance monitoring, many audit where team will go to these organizations and make sure they are saying what they are saying they will do.? As you will see in the PowerPoint presentation, these organizations continue to find efficiencies and do more with less just like we do. 
 
With that we can continue to present the PowerPoint that was in the packet or we can answer any questions the Council has. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Any councilmember have a question? Mr Santiago? Any questions? I don't see any questions but we do have a motion. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Motion to approve. 
 
TROY KENT: 
Second. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Motion to approve by David Santiago and seconded by Troy Kent. Apparently, you don't need to go through the PowerPoint, we do have some members of the public who have asked to speak and I will see if they still care to speak. Bev Johnson? Harry Cole? For those that can't hear in the listening online, they passed on talking and said thank you, Mary Bruno? (Static) don't let them pressure you into not speaking. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Good morning Mr Chairman, councilmembers and manager Recktenwald. I want to say to you that thank you of course. But I also want to tell you I'm a resident of Ponce Inlet and I've been a chair member of the board for more than 20 years. I was a child then of course! Mr Johansson thank you for reappointing me again. Although, this funding is critical (Static) I do know there has been no increase in the spending for years and years and years. I can't remember when. We are most grateful for this but we remind you that the funding is stagnant and it needs to grow so much. 
 
The agencies are still here, just stand some of our agencies… (Static) these folks worked tirelessly for the people of Voluisa County. For the most needy individuals and I truly appreciate your consideration of this need in her county. It's extremely critical. (Static) and I'm thanking you for the continued support. (Away from mic) thank you very much. (Static) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Buck James? (Static) 
 
SPEAKER: 
Thank you counsel for your support. As I often tell people, the work we do is very similar to healthcare. The smartest money we can spend is on (indiscernible). The smartest money we can spend and often times we don't do that so thank you for your support. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you. Any comments by the Council? David Santiago? 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I have a motion but I wanted to comment, I read through this and good service here. Thank you for all the work you do in this community you definitely fill the gap from many instances of what the County is response will to do. I would just tell my colleagues that obviously this is a budget item we have encapsulated in our recent budget proposals but I would like to put on the radar as we get into the next budget cycle that there may be categories in here that we feel are worthy of getting more money. I want you know how I'm feeling as we get forward, I may come up with some ideas on certain sections that I think can be more worthy depending on the need. Thank you Mr chair. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
If there's no other comments or discussion, all in favor of the renewal of children and family advisory board funding recommendations please say 'aye'? Any opposed? The motion carries 7 to 0, thank you for coming in. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Item 3. SMA steward healthcare updates. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Good morning. (Static) my name is Rhonda Harve I'm with SMA healthcare at 150 Magnolia Avenue in Daytona beach. Good morning and thank you for giving me this audience this morning. I have a PowerPoint and I will make your day and a threat. I will reference some slides in it but I will leave this aside. I know you have the PowerPoint in your packet. 
 
Within the packet on the first 10 or 12 slides, you will see information about us. We collect a lot of data, persons we serve, demographics of the people served… Things like that. I would like to kind of point out the information on slides 13 through 15 which is really where I want to point out that we find ourselves very accountable for the dollars we get through the county. And the slides 13, 14 and 15, basically speak to a lot of the outcomes that some of you have inquired of over the course of the last year. (Static) but particularly, we are proud of – actually one of you asked us to look back a little further. We often give our data in three month increments. But one of you asked us, could you not give us a little bit longer look back? We want to see if you are helping people. We looked back further at six, nine and 12 months. 
 
We found an incredible data point that I want to point out everyone here and everyone who may be listening, for individuals that have entered our crisis unit which is the most expensive setting we have, we found when we looked back at services that they had, once they were released from crisis services, they did not return to us for a period of one… 90% and not return within six months. Within detox we found 83% did not return within six months. 
 
I want to thank the councilman who asked us this question. We were required to see that so thank you. What I do want to talk to you about is focused on slides 15, 16 and 17. Whenever you have nothing else to do if you go back and look at the packet, I would appreciate it. But that is to tell you what I'm really here for is to explain to you a project that we embarked upon about a year ago. About 10 years ago we did a study and were unable to get funding to really move forward with it. (Static) a year ago, we decided we were going to embark upon a project to bring additional and more robust services to West Volusia. 
 
Last fall, we started this project and what we are going to do is bring a West Volusia integrated addiction and mental health services facility over at our property so it's a vacant property at 1251 Stone Street in Deland. 
 
This particular effort will consolidate those small services, with a small substance abuse facility in Deberry on the services we haven't DeLand, we will bring them together to create a state-of-the-art mental health program at the Stonestreet setting. I also will tell you that I think it's the seventh? Am I correct? Manager Recktenwald on the seventh, his team will come to the property so we can talk in detail about the project. 
 
This property will bring primary care mental health services, substance abuse services including medication assisted treatment to that location. We anticipate we will serve 3600+ people there. We will improve and increase our project with the University of Florida to do some research on some of the services we provide. 
 
We will employ at least a minimum of 72 full-time positions with the average salary of those positions being graded in $62,000. The best part of this is we are not here to ask you for money. About a year ago we embarked upon this and to date we have raised 60% of the funding we need through fundraising, donations and sales of some of our properties. 
 
We are almost 60% to funding that. We ask today that you support our efforts as we move forward with a legislative request this year. For the additional 40%. Senator Wright and Representative MacLean will be sponsoring our bill through the legislature. And we are extremely excited at the potential to get this brought home and to bring it across the finish line. So with that, do you have any questions for me? 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Many of the Council have questions we will start with David Santiago. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I heard about a year ago… That you are pursuing the 340 B program. How does that come for you? I will share what it is with the Council in a second. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I am glad you will share those details and have some one here who can also share the details. It's coming along pretty well.  
 
On that note I will tell you we will also be bringing a pharmacy to the DeLand area. 
 
Let me ask Eric, Eric coursed. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Will Eric is coming up let me share for the Council. At the federal program that allows entities to get prescription drugs at a significantly reduced price in the normal wholesale rate. Typically that program is set up so that they can then prescribe these drugs at still a discounted rate for the public, they are a patient of theirs. The difference they make, the prophet is to be put back in the system to offset cost delivery of services. 
 
SPEAKER: 
My partner here is Eric Horst, we were in the C-suite up of the genera (Indiscernible) of this year, we both have retired and retained a little bit of operational activities on behalf of the agency. Eric addressed the 340 B question. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Good morning. 
 
He became an FQHC look-alike. In December we were Medicaid-certified. 
 
... 

             
 
SPEAKER: 
We wanted to bring primary care to the behavioral health clients because that's what shows his successful events combined together (indiscernible) their more compliant and will seek out the services. So that was a big part of it but a lot of those clients don't have funding so the way to make it work was this 340 D (indiscernible). We hope to get that into land as well. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I will leave it with this Mr chair, and will tell her stuff behind the scenes but would like for you all to potentially have conversations with our stuff to see how you could partner with the county specifically in our jail system to see how we can also help the 340 B for our inmates and I think there's huge (indiscernible) there. 
 
SPEAKER: 
It's kind of dependent on how it's prescribed and that can be an opportunity there. We can deftly talk about that. We have already added (indiscernible) and brought substance abuse and behavioral health (indiscernible) and Q HC you look like (?) (Static). Psychotropic medications expensive… And there's huge price differential. So particularly for those who have behavioral health issues and that medication might be able to (indiscernible) and had like to think… Troy Kent. 
 
TROY KENT: 
I don't have questions as comments. I want to tell you I had a great opportunity last week to tour SMA with Ms Harvey thank you. And Mr (unknown name) and (unknown name). And I believe it was Jennifer and then of course Doctor (unknown name) was there. First of all Rhonda, thank you for not going through the PowerPoint step-by-step. We do our homework and I was able to go through that before I met with you all. Last week. I just want to say I'm also appreciative that you are not here today asking for dollars right now. You are here just giving us an update. 
 
And telling us your plans. And you are hopeful to have something happened in West Volusia here in DeLand. I can tell you it was impactful for me to tour the facility and be there for about an hour to see the good work you will do for some of our residents who are most vulnerable in their lives. If it's with a mental health crisis or if they are dealing with a drug crisis, I really appreciated the slides with the return of investment.  
 
You have facts and data on what good work SFA does in our community. 
 
Mental Health is something that is a difficult conversation for a lot of people. It was nice to see how caring your staff was towards all those individuals who were experiencing some type of crisis. Not that I was able to see any of the patients, but I was able to hear the stories. 
 
By the way, Dr Kanon (?), my first time meeting him. Extremely knowledgeable man. I appreciated his two cents on the topic and discussion. 
 
I will just tell the Council, when he talked about schizophrenia being about 1% of the population, and seeing an increase of 2%. He says, it's not a big jump but it is 100% jump. 
 
Then I asked, what are some of the reasons behind that you think? He immediately came out with, "Marijuana." I said what? He said marijuana on the street that is laced with chemicals with somebody that is predisposed, I don't want to quote him but this is what I took away from him. 
 
Someone predisposed that is not a full-blown schizophrenic does this drug, and the chemicals interact with there head in the wrong way, and others presented schizophrenia and it is irreversible. 
 
He talked about some frightening stories of young college kids who have never had a mental illness in their life. They go away to school in the experiment with some marijuana, and it is been laced with some chemicals, and they come back home and things aren't right. 
 
He says there is nothing that the psychiatrist community can do to reverse it and to fix it. 
 
I can tell you, I told you all at that meeting I was going to. I went home and set my 17-year-old down right then and said we are having a conversation about it, because it was absolutely frightening. 
 
I sit at that meeting, why am I 48 years old just hearing about this for the first time? Why is this not on the news? Why are people not screaming about this? 
 
And I'm not talking about marijuana that you get legally from a dispensary, but I learned that conversation about the strength level of that compared to what it was in the 70s and 80s. 
 
So it was an enlightening experience to tour your facility, to meet with you all. I just wanted to say thank you for the good hard work that you and your team are doing every day in Volusia. I know you will have other counties near Volusia that participate, what Volusia is the lion share. If my memory is correct, 60%. 
 
SPEAKER: 
You are correct, we are in five counties. Volusia County we serve 60% of our early in Volusia County. 
 
TROY KENT: 
Rhonda I have to stop you, I have 25 seconds left and were taking my time. Because we are serious about that as well (Laughs). I won't use all of my last 20 seconds. 
 
I wanted to publicly say thank you. I hope everything works out on the west side, and I will tour that facility as well. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Jake Johansson. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Thank you sir. 
 
Real quick Rhonda, I appreciate you spending time, even a spinning time with me earlier last week. 
 
Please spread the word to all of your community partners about where we are, return on investment and strategic future. That is exactly what will sell, or unfortunately, not sell program. This is phenomenal, I appreciate all the statistics. 
 
Just so I'm straight moving forward. 
 
Added to our agenda late, not late meaning somebody didn't get it there. We had a supplemental document which is a draft. Are you looking for us to vote & that so you can get...? 
 
SPEAKER: 
I guess what we're looking for... That would be awesome, a signed letter would be awesome. We definitely want some tangible evidence that the county is behind our efforts with the state. 
 
As I said, Tom Wright and Stan McLean are both carrying this through. We serve the community. This is not... It's private nonprofit, but we have been doing this for 30 years. We serve the community and want to do more and want to do better. 
 
If we are to think something right, we want you all to tell us what we can do better. When we are doing something like this, we would appreciate your support. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Got that. 
 
Chairman, I will wait for you but I will make the motion after that. Unless you make the motion. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
OK. 
 
I don't believe we need a motion but I think it would be appropriate Jake, in light of everything that's been said here. 
 
I want to, I didn't tour the facility but I want to go back in history. 
 
I spend every Tuesday night at SMA for 60 days. For my father. 
 
He was a hard-working proud man, never missed a day of work in his life until one Monday morning he couldn't walk across the floor. 
 
My mother was asked to call in sick for him, and she refused. She said if you go to SMA, I will call in sick. He refused. She called his boss and the boss said, "I'm an alcoholic, and I went through treatment, and I want her to go through treatment." 
 
So my brother and I literally picked him up. I lived next door, and carried him to the car. We took him to SMA they rejected him and sent him to the emergency room because the blood alcohol was so high. After three days he went back. 
 
This is very personal, but it think it's important. I am proud of my father. 
 
He went through that program, and I remember the first thing he said was, "I don't want to be here. I don't want to go here because it's a bunch of derelicts." And he got there and was surrounded by doctors, lawyers, business owners, and hard-working people. People just like all of us. That suffer with drug abuse or alcohol abuse. 
 
I believe that God saved my father's life by placing SMA in our community. 
 
He made a tremendous transformation. He died nine years ago, and he died with 23 year medallion of being alcohol free. Just minutes before he died he showed us that medallion. 
 
It meant something to him, it meant that he had a battle and he conquered it with the help of God and the help of the people at SMA. 
 
So when these men say thank you, I will say thank you as well. I may come back and tour it again, and it changed my life and it changed my families life. And I just thank you for that. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Thank you very much for that. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Mr Johansson. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Motion to approve letter of support for (Indiscernible) copperhead of addiction and mental health capital project for – sent to Senator Wright, Honorable Stan McLean. 
 
TROY KENT: 
Troy Kent a second. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Motion to support the letter by Jake Johansson, seconded by Troy Kent. Any other discussion? 
 
KARISSA GREEN: 
Mr. Brower, I believe Mr. Reinhart is attempting to speak. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Is Eagles fingers. Matt use your other hand because the screen is split. Go ahead Councilman Matt Reinhart. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
Thank you Mr Chair, Rhonda, thank you again for the discussion the other day. I have also as I'm not there in person. I also would have supported that letter and will support that letter. 
 
I did want to mention I have been dealing with SMA for many many years. The rate partnership we have, or still have at the jail. 
 
Councilman Santiago, thank you for bringing up the 340 B with respect to medication for inmates. 
 
Budget process wise that we did there at the jail, I will tell you the most excessive item was the psychotropic medications. It still is and still will be, medical costs. 
 
We will talk a little later in the agenda with respect to some mental health housing that I would like to see, and hopefully will see SMA's involvement when we care for that, we will talk more about that later. 
 
Nonetheless I think it is a great idea, and I commend Mr Santiago for bringing that up, thank you. 
 
I just want to mention that. And thank you for all you do and all you have to know you will do.  
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
I have a question. I've been doing criminal law in your agency offered a level I immersion program which gave a first time offender for cocaine or low-level drugs to get treatment and potentially get charges dropped (Static). You guys have stopped that. Is there any way, can you tell me why you stopped it and is there a way to (indiscernible). 
 
SPEAKER: 
That program was the antidrug initiative and I believe we started it in 1999. (Static) showing my age here. But that was a project that was somewhat championed by you may remember, first attorney David Smith. He helped to develop the program. Over the course of time, I guess between the defense counsel being very effective and getting much lighter sentence I'm not sure why it fell out of use. Volume is a big part of that because it was self-funded. There was not one dollar that was publicly funded. The defendant had to pay his own way. 
 
It fell out of use for members. It just was not enough referrals… We were way open to re-creating the diversionary program. It's not really difficult for us but if the criminal justice system doesn't use it, then ultimately we had to quit. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
That's surprising because I know the sentences now are harsher and when the program was in place… No one wants to oversee it (Static) it would be great (Away from mic) to have that brought up again. (indiscernible) criminal defense and I suspect it would be heavily used. 
 
SPEAKER: 
You're not the only criminal defense attorney to ask me that because it's a really good thing for the community but without the prosecutors recommended it… We kept track of which courtrooms referred how many so we knew where people were in love with it and where they were not. Some judges ordered it more frequently than others. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
It used to be (Away from mic). The legislature changed it so now the state attorney has (Static) discretion to allow someone into it. If it was available now… There was a push from (Static). 
 
SPEAKER: 
Is certainly worth another (Static) foray into it to approach estate attorney to see if they are interested in it. It can't hurt anything. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
(Away from mic) there's a lot of people who otherwise (Static) are getting convictions now for possession of low-level drugs and they get drivers license suspension and all that (Static) and would benefit from this with the charges being dropped in (indiscernible). 
 
SPEAKER: 
I appreciate that and I will take it back and see if we could regenerate it. It's certainly something we in treatment believe has a lot of value. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
I do as well. (Away from mic) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Kent. 
 
TROY KENT: 
Councilman Dempsey, again I will point out you bring up a different side of the story and also a piece of history that I had no idea that SMA had that program and then you have Ms Harvey talking about how it was 100% funded by those individuals. That received the help. That was going to be my question or point and I think you both answered it. OK, this sounds like a positive thing, SMA is not against it. How do we get this all rolling. It seems like there's a conversation with the state attorney we need to have and I don't know who else but Don, I would love for you to lead that charge because it sounds like it would be a positive thing… If it's one person in our community, I'm good with that. 
 
It sounds like it would be a lot, especially when Ms Harvey said, you are not the only defense attorney. She's heard this exact question and comment about this topic. So I say we pursue that. 
 
SPEAKER: 
We will definitely look into it on our side. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you very much, I don't see other comments or discussion so I will call for the vote to approve sending this letter of support. All in favor say 'aye'. Any opposed? Motion carries a 7 to 0. Thank you. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
That brings us to item 4, resolution to propose vacation of a portion of Harbor Road in Port Orange. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Good morning (unknown name) here County engineer. This is a request from commissioners housing and (indiscernible) Corporation, Michael (unknown name) Mr and Mrs (unknown name) to vacate (indiscernible) feet (Static). That section of road does (indiscernible) and worked on it in the recent past but it served (Away from mic) that group and worked out that (indiscernible) for easements between each other (Static) (indiscernible). Requesting (Static) rights to (indiscernible). 
 
(Away from mic) (indiscernible) in that section and (indiscernible) descent from the adjacent (indiscernible). (Static) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you for questions David Santiago? David Santiago makes a motion to approve. Is there a second? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Chairman I will seconded but I have some questions. Jeffri Mack go ahead with your questions. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Thank you Mr Kasbeer or for speaking on this. I had a email and ... There was a (unknown name) on (Place) and he is a question… If you can help me with this… (Static) the (indiscernible) is vacated by the County (indiscernible) properties will then become waterfront properties which immediately increase the value of the properties. Questions for staff… Did staff have Volusia County property appraiser's office establish a value to the .78 acres (indiscernible) parentheses waterfront… That's number one. 
 
SPEAKER: 
We don't typically do that with regard to this because it is a prescriptive right we don't actually own underlying property (Static) what we have is… Legal will correct me if I'm mistaken but again (indiscernible) to the easement. We have a right to do things things and a road in that area and the public to utilize it but we don't own the underlying property. (indiscernible) in the first place was not really creating specific value to the (indiscernible), moving the impediment to property value (Static). Give anything to correct on that? 
 
SPEAKER: 
As a reminder for the prescriptive roads, these were never formally dedicated (Static) to the County. Usually what happens is the county either constructs it or maintains the road for a period of 4 to 7 years (Static) and they do that in (indiscernible) and (indiscernible). There wasn't a plan for this so, the vacation of it returns the underlying land back to (Static) the previous owners so we don't necessarily do an analysis (indiscernible) and we are giving the Land Back because we either have constructed it from some unofficial mechanism or were maintaining it over the period of years because (indiscernible) the county road. That's why we (indiscernible) prescriptive (indiscernible) we get it by operational (indiscernible) rather than (Static) direct plan action. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
That answer to the questions here, clarifying that. The biggest concern is now they have waterfront property and there was a misunderstanding. Number three and I will forward this to you, is there road study that was done of one the road is blocked off because then the (indiscernible) will no longer have access to the (indiscernible) road. I will forward this to you... Our side of Harbor Road was not notified of this proposal. It does not affect the ingress and egress but there are (indiscernible) dwellings. (indiscernible) harbor. Ives contact information and if he can make a point to clarify. 
 
(Static) (Difficult for captioners to hear) 
 
SPEAKER: 
He's located… See the red section of Harbor Road (indiscernible) proposing to (indiscernible). It's west of that and then Harbor Road itself (Static) strange set up. His property is in the northern section at the corner north of the corner on the west side of that portion. We are not closing any of that property… You still have access to harbor road down to (indiscernible). (Quietly/whispering) This is (indiscernible) that area (Static) property and there (Static) five or six N. of the section (Audio issues). 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
I will forward it to you. (Audio issues) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Johansson. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Thank you for the brief… Based on some public comments this morning (Audio issues) will ask questions that I think I know the answer to. Once we abandon this, (Audio issues) who maintains it? 
 
TADD KASBEER: 
It becomes their private property… They can remove it… Whatever. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
What happens if it gets down to maintenance and the County or Port Orange can't Fire truck down there… 
 
TADD KASBEER: 
At this point everything that's currently developed out there, what have access through the mobile home park to the south. In the area. So you haven't cut off anybody's access (Audio issues) property (indiscernible) remove that road section and they can have the access for fire services or (Static) public access to the (indiscernible) of the residences as they do now. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
It appears some homes only have access from Harbor but maybe I'm just not looking well enough. 
 
Same thing with flooding, correct? So… We are reasonably assured that the public is well aware of what is about to happen and when it floods, they could come to us… But there's not much we can do other than… 
 
TADD KASBEER: 
They get public notice just like what my public hearings and there's signs (indiscernible) as well (Audio issues) there's information put out to the public. With regard to flooding for example (Static) this section of Harbour, north of the mobile home park abscess we repaired a portion of that during Matthew. But people still had access (indiscernible) harbor to the north… (Static) (Away from mic) 
 
(Difficult for captioners to hear what is being said due to static) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Anyone have questions or discussion? We have motions to approve by Councilman Santiago and second by Vice Chair Robins. All in favor of the proposed vacation of a portion of Harbor Road say 'aye'? Any opposed? Motion carries 7 to 0. Thank you. (Static) you are here for the next proposed vacation, item 5 about portion of Astor Junction a.k.a. Eldridge subdivision. 
 
TADD KASBEER: 
Tadd Kasbeer, (unknown name) Ann of Orlando, Calvin Cole, are petitioning for a section of the Astor Junction a.k.a. Eldridge subdivision, includes Ali rights-of-way, 2 50 foot rights-of-way and to triangular section right-of-way adjacent to (indiscernible) Road... (Static) (Away from mic) we kept that space (indiscernible) vacation of the main area. (Audio issues) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Any questions? Councilman Santiago? Councilman Santiago makes a motion to approve, seconded by Councilman Johansson to approve the proposed vacation of a portion of Astor Junction, strangest configuration of property I have seen in a long time. So this makes sense, all in favor say 'aye'. Any opposed? Motion carries 7 to 0. Thank you very much. 
 
Item 6. Is it because I judicial hearing. A special exception for a mini warehouse on 2995 S. Woodland Boulevard in DeLand. Before we start I will ask the council if anyone has any ex parte to declare? Any discussion?  
 
One absent but looks like you are clear to go. 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
Good morning, Clay Ervin director of resource management. This is a special exception for any warehouse use. It is D4 zoning. Subject property is located on Eastside Woodland just outside 472 offramp. 
 
The D4 zoning identifies this type of (Indiscernible) special exception. Therefore has to go not only through staff review be technical compliance of criteria for special exceptions. It has to go through public hearing in front of the planing and the development regulation, as well as approval of resolution by the Council. 
 
This process puts in place how we evaluate to make sure it is in compliance with those requirements of the special exception criteria. Your staff has reviewed that and recommended approval to both PLDRC and County Council. 
 
The one concern staff has identified pertains to that Access Point we were saying. This conceptual site plan which was part of the special exception and would be something that is used in future approval reflects the concerns that they have an off ramp State Road 472 commanders no existing feasible means of accessing the property. 
 
So staff has requested that the applicants work with the DOT because both State Road 17 and (Unknown Term) Boulevard in 472 R-state Rhodes. We do not have any bearing on what is permitted or how it is designed. 
 
So we will be working with DOT staff to ensure this access to this property meets their criteria, meet safety requirements. Staff is looking at whatever options we have. There were no available ways of accessing this property at this point in time. We will continue to work with the property owner and surrounding property owners to see if there's a better way of getting to this property. 
 
As we said, it went through. It is roughly 90,000 ft.², three-story (Indiscernible). It is up storage warehouse. 
 
As we reflected, self storage warehousing is possibly one of the lowest traffic generators around. That is not normally have a high traffic volume in the AM or PM peak time for the majority of folks who want to access these facilities (Indiscernible) on the weekends. 
 
Therefore from that perspective it is not going to be – you're not going to have turning traffic when the road is most congested, (Indiscernible) managing that roadway. 
 
So committee with a recognition of approval for both staff and Planning and Land Development Regulation Commission. There was no public comment at the public hearing. Applicant is here to answer questions you may have. If you have questions (Indiscernible) can answer as well. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
We will start with questions first, IC3 hands counsel numbers up? Is that for questions? 
 
TROY KENT: 
Clay, I like the usage. I like the trips generated are one of the fewest we certainly could have. I'm on board with all of that. 
 
My biggest concern is the ingress and egress. I was pleased to hear you say FDOT will have to solve this, because I have done it and continue to do it right drive around. I could be be with people in the car or not. I might say to myself, might say aloud, but I would say who in their right mind would approve this? 
 
I don't want that coming back on us. "Who in their right mind approved this" with an ingress and egress where could possibly be externally dangerous. 
 
Can you elaborate a little bit more for me on what safeguards are going to be put in place if we approve this to ensure FDOT has on what they need to do to ensure we are not creating a huge traffic nightmare. 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
Yes sir, the second condition part of this approval specifically says the ingress egress point is conceptual in nature, and the epigastric with both us and DOT to come up with a suitable method of accessing the site. 
 
Again you have alternative roads outside of classification routes that would allow for the accessing of this property. Unfortunately that is not the case. 
 
TROY KENT: 
Again I look at this, a picture says a thousand words. My feelings are going up. I'm concerned about it, but I appreciate there will be a ton of thought and FDOT left to sign off on this long with the applicant and Volusia. 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
To say the audience what they are going to do is restrict the driveway, that's commute right invite out so therefore there is no one foolish enough to try to attempt to cross 472 offramp (Indiscernible) 17. 
 
The aspect is whether or not what kind of T cell lanes, because you are dealing with the curvature of the offramp, may make that difficult to do. Also lighting, warning signs, those types of things. Blind driveways. You see those utilized by DOT for this (Indiscernible). 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
Is will be can be assured to have a D cell input in? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
No because we don't have the permitting. We can sit there and say would like to see a decell put in there, every work with the engineers. We are fortunate enough to have (Unknown Term), he has a great relationship with DOT. As a greater understanding of what has to be done. 
 
Can tell you when you see Jay in action he knows (static) the best design out of it. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
My concern is that everyone probably picked up on. (static) merging or 72 and (away from mic). I have driven that section hundreds of times. I know when you're coming off for 72 northbound your focus is looking to your left in your rearview mirror to begin merging with 1792 and northbound traffic. If your attention is looking over your shoulder, (Indiscernible) black spot on looking in your mirrors to see what is coming, (static) about to make a right turn ahead of you into this mini warehouse, you may have a stopped for whatever reason attempting to (Indiscernible). 
 
Of itself to CA (Indiscernible) Lane. 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
We will be pushing for that. It's what DOT can approve and the curvature of the offramp. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Councilman Johansson. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Thank you. 
 
One comment to our councilmembers is that FDOT's has pretty decent traffic engineers. I'm sure they will do the best they can. 
 
One of the things I've noticed that I spent a little bit of time, everyone complaints about the storage unit. Nothing worse than that is carwash. So things are popping up like weeds around here. 
 
Everyone says that this is the least traffic impact, but I find over time ago early morning to some of these storage places. Landscape and will supply folks are in and out. They go in in the morning, they call back at lunch to get more product, and they pack up in the evening. 
 
Is the science that shows (Indiscernible) just getting our Christmas applies, that is is more than that for some of the storage units? Is the traffic science updated to reflect was using the storage units and what they're using them for, and how often those trip accounts? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
Good observation, and that is a truly just self storage or actually (Indiscernible). That's why we have condition number five will be seen on drive sales conducted outside, no servicing repair motor vehicle, trailers, lawnmowers, and other similar equipment (Indiscernible) on the premises. 
 
The ideas we are trying to limit it to only that type of use. 
 
The other aspect of it, this is a three-story air-conditioned interior storage. So you will not... 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
(Indiscernible) second and third floor. 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
(Away from mic) -- (static) 
 
Is a situation we are concerned about that as well. What you were saying at the property owner and design of this identified use, which will minimize potential commercial use. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Is look at the picture, this is a pretty straightforward piece of land. Most of it stays open, undeveloped. It makes sense here. The questions that are being asked is what doesn't make sense? 
 
This is a traffic nightmare in this area. 
 
I'm comfortable with the conditions put on it. Think when we talked yesterday, we repair with everybody. We are basically trusting FDOT to approve the proper ingress egress. It has not come back to was correct? So we pass it on to them. 
 
If it fails, we will take the blame for it. If it works, then we won't hear anything. I just want to make that point. 
 
David Santiago. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Thank you Mr. Chairman. I think in their life my concern. (Indiscernible). 
 
Clay, what is the special exception? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
Use itself, self storage many houses not allowed by right and before commercial zoning. Therefore it is been identified as a special exception use. There is no specific criteria per se, it is just meeting the generalized criteria. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
What's the underling zoning? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
B4. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I would just like I don't like it. I tried that one a lot too. That is... You could put a NASCAR sign of people coming out on 472 every morning and the backup that piles up in there. It's unfortunate but... I don't know what they can do, I am not an engineer. 
 
I do know what you said Mr. Chairman, when it fails, if it fails, it is going to be blamed we approved this. 
 
Clay, can we do for lack of a better term, a limited approval or hybrid approval so they can proceed forward with DOT and bring that back to us with what the plan is for the road? I trust staff quite a bit right, but this one may be a problem. I would rather give me the final look and give the blessings, I don't know how the Council feels. 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
One thing is able to the County Council as part of this project is you can restrict the hours of operation. Therefore if you feel Monday through Friday is perfect for having someone access the site, which is during typical a.m. peak of 7-9 you can restrict those hours of operation if you feel. 
 
I don't know if restricting evening hours will necessarily have as much of an impact, but that is something of able to you. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
If you can answer that, another thing we proceed with this clay is as the site plan, that area is very dark as you were coming at 472. I can envision that this proceeds forward and enhanced lighting element leading up to that driveway also for nighttime stuff that happens. 
 
PAOLO SORIA: 
The question was can you make them go through DOT and then come back here? short answer is no, was actually a statute on that. It's 125.022. 
 
It says that for native element permit application, state of element permit application filed with the county after July 1, 2022, a county may not require (Indiscernible) processing issuing developing permit or develop in order (Indiscernible) contained permit or approval from any state or federal agency unless that agency has issued a final agency action that denies the federal or state permits. 
 
If the FDOT says we are not going to give you an access because they are not meeting it, then we can petition for special exception of this permit otherwise the state law preempt us. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Can we say is in the condition on this part they were looking at to say similar to what Doctor EPSY said. The garment of the D cell Lane? 
 
PAOLO SORIA: 
It is not our role, that's the issue. We are not the permitting authority of the state road. If it was our road, a county road, we can require the condition for the deceleration lane issue. It is two state roads so DOT also preamps us whatever goes on in their state law. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
One final question Mr Chair. 
 
There is no prohibition from the applicant that I'm aware of, you can clarify, that prevents the up again and engineers to go to DOT to get a conceptual look, overview, approval of something on the site and just come back? 
 
PAOLO SORIA: 
There is nothing that prevents the upper can to do it, we just can't condition to apply permits on the money to the state federal process first (?). 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
(Indiscernible) mixed comments and questions. 
 
I am in favor of denying this and sending the applicant to DOT and coming back. In giving us some assurances over there going to go with this. 
 
That's a bad road guys, I've done that one all the time. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
We could table it for those reasons was said and bring it back. 
 
But see what the rest of the Council has to say, Councilman Dempsey. 
 
PAOLO SORIA: 
Before you do that we have the applicants present. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
We will give them a chance just because well. 
 
You want your the uppercut before? 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
I would like to talk to Paolo one more time. 
 
Is there no way we can have a conditional approval saying we approve the condition on a deceleration lane being approved by another entity? 
 
PAOLO SORIA: 
Yes, the statute is 125.022 subsection 5. I read that provision, once again the county may not provide the condition of processing or issuing that element permit or development order that applicant obtaining permit order or approval from any state or federal agency unless that state or federal agency is already denied that particular approval.  
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Looking here Vice Chair Robins. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
I understand everyone's concerns with this. (Static) I understand the road has issues but I'm looking at what's in our wheelhouse. If the applicant has done everything, the government has asked them to do. With this. If it's within process, the questions I have is, even if we were to do a conditional use or allow it to go forward, we may run into some of the same issues we have in the past. Applicant spend more money with the process, (indiscernible) the government come back and rip the carpet out from underneath them. 
 
So where do we go? I think what we can do, in a safe manner, we have all have said David that, what our concerns are. If they met the criteria, my motion would be to approve it but send a letter to DOT. Because this is what DOT does. We can agree on that. I have a hard time thinking they would make this an unsafe manner, can we write them a letter from this board with our concerns and say, "can you guys consider this? This is what our concerns are." Clay, has not been done before? Would that be acceptable? I don't want to overstep because they are a great partner but we are overstepping, I don't want to overstate our welcome. 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
If you want to put belt and suspenders on the pants, we can do that. It's basically sending a letter to the DOT and (indiscernible) the Council has extreme concern (Static) and wants to see the best design to ensure access to the site but more importantly safety of the notary public (indiscernible) protected (Static). Again, what we are hearing (Away from mic) and I was talking to (indiscernible) planning development services staff is making sure (Away from mic) when they come back for the final site plan, because again this is just the approval of the special exception (Audio issues). This basically says this use under this conceptual plan is OK to go, you still need to come back and get your final approval. (Audio issues) they will not be able, let me rephrase this… A smart move is to get your DOT permit because that will dictate your (indiscernible) design. They will not be back with the final site plan until they work through the details with the DOT. 
 
One of the conditions is that the applicant has to engage Voluisa County staff with the DOT staff to come up with the appropriate solution. Again, obviously you have three options, you can improve that the conditions identify and approve of the additional conditions and you can continue our deny it. If you continue it you would (indiscernible) (Audio issues)... 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Where I am at to close this out… It's not uncommon driving on any road, trucks (indiscernible) signs, reduced speed there's a curve, water on the road, (indiscernible) and all the signs are common in advance or the slowdown rumble strips. We have them out on Tomocha Farms Road in a couple areas. My motion is to approve this as presented, but to write our letter with concerns and forward it with the approval of the DOT (Static). 
 
SPEAKER: 
I don't believe the applicant has spoken. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Before we take any vote the applicant has a right to speak. The motion is to approve with the conditions given in the accompanying letter requesting concerns. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Can we hear the applicant speak before we make a motion? 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
We could. Is there a second for that as it stands? Matt Reinhart. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
I will second that with the conditions but I do like the other condition of the lighting as well. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
I don't think that's exactly what the motion is, was the lighting in your motion? 
 
MATT REINHART: 
It was with conditions and I just want to make sure one of the condition was lighting in addition I heard mentioned about the deceleration lane and I heard Mr Santiago make mention about the lighting. I know there's a number of recommendations… With those conditions. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Those aren't part of this motion. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
We can amend it later. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Let's hear from the applicant. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Good morning I'm Selby With (unknown name) civil engineering. Do need an address? Thank you for the testimony regarding your father. We've been with the PLDRC and worked with staff and haven't talked to DOT and I have not been in contact with them. There is definitely consistent concern with the (indiscernible) location and of course, as an engineer, (Static) doing this for 30 years and working for (indiscernible) in this (indiscernible) facility we all want this to be safe. We recognize the concern and are working with the DOT but I mean all of this including your staff, recognize the best location for those driveways is on the north end of the property where we are showing it. It would be great (indiscernible) side road and we had signal access… This site will never have that. (Static) (Audio issues) one thing if I put myself in your shoes, one thing led me step back. I want to make sure I answer your question… Your concern about (indiscernible) maintenance companies and things like that, the beauty of this is it's all indoor, new outdoor access to the facility. You walk into an air-conditioned facility and get to what you are using. (indiscernible) lawn care companies that will be driving lawnmowers and storing gas at this place it will be too expensive (Away from mic). That's one beauty of this. No outdoor storage or direct access to (Audio issues). Another thing to consider here is we are here asking for special exception because of (indiscernible) that's why we (indiscernible). 
 
If we were coming in here with the commercial property which we could, goes under B4 zoning. We could go directly to staff and get a project approved that has more trips than a self storage facility. This is not a threat and don't hear that way, I'm saying (indiscernible) and advocate for this... It's a low trip use and it will not have the issue with what you are describing (Audio issues). That goes away because the kind of facility it is. We will work with DOT and your staff... At the end discussion I heard he goes to DOT and it's out of our hands. (Audio issues) (Static) DOT and your staff will review it at the same time. 
 
(Captioners having a hard time hearing what is being said you to static) 
 
The (indiscernible) is happening in the right turn lane it's a dedicated right turn lane and not a (indiscernible) (indiscernible) over their shoulders… (Away from mic) I want to make sure we are clear there are commercial users allowing the property by right and by law, they have to be provided access. 
 
This site can't be denied access from the right-of-way. You guys (Static) the conditions you are putting on it, you are in the best position because this is a special exception to be able to put conditions on us. Again, because it's a special exception. Do you have any questions for me? 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
It appears we do. Councilman Santiago? 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Have you looked… First of all you are right. On what you're saying because it's in a special exception we have an opportunity to look at negotiating something, traditionally based on underlying zoning (indiscernible). Have you considered or open to considering one of the items we discussed like enhanced lighting leading up to the area. Is that something you are (indiscernible) objectionable to? 
 
SPEAKER: 
We would be open to that in...we can't put lights on the DOT right of way. (Audio issues) we can put them on our property and it's something you have to consider with staff... The typical (indiscernible) is you can't (Audio issues) staff would have to work with us to allow lighting to spill into the right-of-way (Static). It wouldn't meet your code. We would need your assistance for that to allow that. We can work with staff on that. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
That's the only question I had (Away from mic). 
 
TROY KENT: 
To the applicant, I believe you are there attorney? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Civil engineer. 
 
TROY KENT: 
You clarified it wasn't a threat because I was waiting for that comment come because I immediately took it as a threat until you said, listen don't take it as a threat. Even though it's how I took it. Because if the applicant could work within (Static) confines and put something there that's allowable right now, they would do that. If it was something that wouldn't have to come before us and they could make the money with, this is in their wheelhouse and what they do. I heard someone talk about earlier about self storage and carwashes, my opinion, great businesses to own. Just great businesses to own. 
 
(indiscernible) a partner but… (Static) you mentioned that the north side, there is never good to be a road there. What I'm looking at, staff doesn't have the aerial picture up right now but I'm looking at the base of the triangle. (Static) Clay, when you get there... A little bit of an error. I will turn this around for you for a moment here. The top portion here is that the north? That right there. The yellow on the left-hand side, the aerial. Clay, is that the north side? Because I really appreciate hearing from Councilman Dempsey and Santiago and all the councilmembers but I heard these two gentlemen say, they drive it all the time. 
 
I don't. But this jumped up at me just that picture, that aerial picture when I saw that, and I was told that is where we are looking at the ingress and egress, my feelers popped up and said, this looks potentially dangerous. To all human beings. 
 
Traveling and getting in and out of here. So, on the north side, would your clients on their own property (Static) come is there possibility that is where the ingress and egress can be? They could have their own road? Their own paved area, that's where people could in turn accept this property? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
That is far North end. We are showing the driveway at the far north end of the property and actually in addition we haven't talked about this today but I will throw this out there, we are trying to improve conditions further. There's an FPL access road and you can see that North of the clients property. 
 
We are reaching out to FPL to see we get theirs closed and allow (indiscernible) (Static). To driveway right there in that location to basically value-added… 
 
SPEAKER: 
It's not showing up on the aerial for everybody in the audience but I just marked it up on my map here. Which is only good for me because…  
 
That's a Clay's circle. 
 
On the north end of that circle can you put a mark up there. Tell me where exactly the applicant wants to put the ingress egress. 
 
Right there. 
 
So Clay, what about further to the north and on that, where there's not a road but there should be a road. To access that property. What about over there? Is one talk about of the applicant. To me that would solve the problem in my mind. 
 
You are not creating a road but creating a paved area where your customers can pull in and have X number of feet to enter and exit the property. 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
If, and I'm trying to remember. I know that's (Unknown Term) access point with my client doesn't have control of the property so they don't have write access there. If the owner of the property would allow them to run their right to access their to the provided improved driveway at that point, we would do it all day long. Again, we don't have control of that. We are happy to pursue it, but at the end of the day if we can't get access... 
 
TROY KENT: 
What about the property that you do own so you on your property and loose X number of feet and come in that way, what about that? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
That is where we are. We are currently on the property we do own on the far north and adjacent to the driveway. If we came off the north side of her property, we are in someone else's private property. We don't have the right to access through that. 
 
TROY KENT: 
Maybe I'm not being clear and I apologize Mr. Ervin. 
 
What I'm talking about is on their property, not officer property but on their property. They would lose X amount of peace they would maybe (Indiscernible) putting part of the building on and creating their own drive into what they own only, where cars can go in and stack up. 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
Right now, are you trying to bring this in further so there is greater storage in this first part? 
 
Are you asking if we came in with a deeper storage area in this area for the actual cars to stack up into and possibly shift the building down so the parking is oriented over here. You have cars able to get off quicker. Right now they do have driver to the northern most. As you can see they have to factor in the radius of the driveway. 
 
TROY KENT: 
Thank you, I'm good. Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Are you good? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Mr. Kent you may have moved on, but I just want staff to be able to respond. I heard some discussion about having an access point on the FPL, and that being a condition to move for approval. I think that could be a valid condition but I don't want to speak for you. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I don't understand how that could be a condition if FTL, if they want cooperate, that denies is legal access to the property. 
 
TROY KENT: 
I will clear that up, I don't want to make that a condition. I don't want to do that because I am also a big property rights guy so I don't want to do that. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Councilman Santiago. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I lightened up a little bit from my position earlier for that in our perspective. Denny I appreciate your comments because I don't like the strong arm of government are creating additional barriers. 
 
What has brought comfort to me is Clay's comments in the site plan review is areas where they can participate and make sure this is safe along with working with DOT. We gotta go back to DOT, and staff... 
 
Let me ask a question. 
 
Clay, on our site plan review process do you need any additional authority from us and an agreement from the applicant to say we want to enhance lighting along there? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
Yes sir, as part of the motion will be part of the conditions. What we will do is look at... Because again going back to... If I can find it. 
 
What you are talking about is a long this border here coming in with lights on their property and whatever signal station and signage DOT would have such that anyone coming off of 472 at this point here would be notified if there was going to be potential for cars turning in there. Yes, we can (Indiscernible) all that. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
You would need a motion for enhanced lighting. 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
I would say signage and lighting along the western property to improve public safety. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
And you are right in what you say that, collects, this is probably the least impactful use we can have (Indiscernible). Like we are in the position now, we have an applicant willing to work with us and it gives us the best opportunity to do that. 
 
I don't know if you want me to make the motion, you to make the motion. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Audio lesson because I can modify based on what they say. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
We will hear from them and then you can... Be appropriate for you to amend the motion because there are several things. Sounds like we need to go on. Don Dempsey. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
I'm curious, Mr. engineer, sorry I forgot your first name (Laughs). 
 
Selby, have you done a traffic (Indiscernible) for this area? 
 
SPEAKER: 
We don't have traffic impact analysis for this area yet. I honestly don't know... Because of the low trip volume this would use, DOT may not require that. And frankly I don't... I think the only thing that would play into practically on this is whether or not a right turn lane would be justified. Frankly it probably would be wouldn't be justified based on trips but might be justified based on location and everything. 
 
My point in saying all that, I'm just thinking out loud right now. I don't know TIA will do anything practical for us here. I think it will be more common sense approach working with DOT in the county on what is right for this use. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
I'm sorry, I know just looking at the DOT map, the traffic house, just haven't looked at it over the years. 
 
I noticed that particular area has according to the DOT map, 56,000 trips a day right in that immediate area on 1792. Traffic count on northbound exit off 472 11,000 cars a day. 
 
I believe right here downtown DeLand, traffic count is only 18,000. Almost 3 times as many cars traveling in the immediate area on 1792 and there in downtown DeLand. There is 11,000 cars a day going on the northbound 472. 
 
That is a very busy intersection. 
 
I almost would rather see a right in right out with the right entrance being off 472, to be honest with you, at least coming off the seventh tip of your property. Cannot is busy. When you're merging at 472, 56,000 daily trips to your left, and you are going 11,000 in your same direction, that's a lot going on. 
 
Plus you have stacking, what's not showing in the picture is to stop Elaine right here immediately to the north. You have emerging traffic to your left, you have stacking at the red light, and vehicles turning right into the shopping center. I would almost rather see a write-in on 472 and write out as you proposed ingress egress (?). 
 
It seems to me there's less chance of stacking and people getting rear-ended if your entrance was from the southern tip off 472 because there is a lot less traffic going off 472. 1/5 as much traffic coming off 472 then there would be. 
 
Is that (audio issues). 
 
[Audio cutting in and out] 
 
SPEAKER: 
The recognize the site is a challenge. They appreciate the low use. They are in the same issue as a lot of us are, from a property rights standpoint you have a right to access. 
 
We are all basically doing the best we can. But suck position we can have with DOT. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
Is that wetlands area? 
 
SPEAKER: 
No, it's all hardwoods. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Vice-Chair Robbins. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Chair I will amend my previous motion. 
 
My new motion will be motion to approve the terms as presented, and let staff and let the engineers and let DOT do what they need to do to make this the safest ingress and egress possible. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Is there a second to that amendment? 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Second, Jake Johansson. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Motion made by Danny Robins, second by Jake Johansson. For discussion? 
 
What his hand up first? 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I will yield to him. 
 
(Laughter) 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Matt Reinhart. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
Thank you chair, just a quick question. Maybe mixing apples and oranges here. This property looks reminiscent to that of where the park-and-ride is on Saxon Boulevard. I was thinking about the ingress egress that is there, probably a lot more traffic coming out of that area than what would be for this. 
 
I'm just curious what they do there different that would be any different at this location? 
 
While there is a red light, like you discussed here there is also a traffic light on the north end of this property little further down just like that area. Yes, that egress is right there. That's true there is a red light, I forgot about that. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Thank you. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
I'm good. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Is the motion amenable to add discussion we had guarding staff site plan evaluation enhanced lighting and signage will be part of the review? 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
I don't want to be redundant or step on it because as a day-to-day operation. These guys know what they have to do. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Etiquette needs a motion, the reason I ask a question is because there are certain standards in the site plan review process, because when negotiating this we added in it gives them the power to look at that. 
 
Am I right Clay? I want to make sure. 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
Yes sir, if you will identify what additional lighting and signage along the west property line, we can make sure it's on the property, but is on spilling (Indiscernible) the additional protection you are seeing. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
With that being said, if we do put that in the motion, we are going to require them to do it. The whole idea of lighting is to add – or in this case more safety. But they are saying that per CODA can't spill over. 
 
So what's the point? 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
It gives them the power to do it. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
What I'm saying is what is the point? If you can't spill over and add an additional warning? 
 
They can add signs, their own lighting, I think we're kind of making a mountain out of a mole here. 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
Just to clarify lighting standards, it's not weak knowledge light can't come over there, though certain (Indiscernible). The light would be visible still but... Whatever counsel feels is appropriate we can do. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I guess what I wanted to do Danny, I am with you. I am against more restriction, I really am. But on this particular site I have driven that day, nighttime, early morning. 
 
People are flying through the intersection. The more visibility in the dark. If we can give staff, sake "Look at it." I trust him to do it the right way, let's give it to them then I can make it clear. " 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
I can do that David and I to make it clear. DOT in five minutes, after very unfortunate, (indiscernible) only get signed there within a few weeks. Things that them pedestrians. So I think they are going to do it anyway. So if we can get that… (indiscernible) (unknown name), in your wisdom? 
 
SPEAKER: 
My fear is that we put stipulations on something, and if we tell them to put lights on, and at DOT says "No, I do not want his lights encroaching on 472," and we have told him he has to put lights, so now he is going to put lights but his lights were not encroach on 472 which kind of just adds cost to his program. At DOT, they do not always get it right. But they are a great group of engineers. Our traffic engineers here, I am convinced that if it has to be done, and common sense, they have not common sense, we have that common sense… 
 
If we just say "Look, here are our concerns, make sure they are addressed." Let them figure out how to address our concerns. We are concerned with visuals at night and the speed of traffic that may encroach on this entrance. And let them figure out the best way to come forward. 
 
I really think that is the best way to do it. And, does it come back on us? Maybe it does. But, my stipulation to Play after the event today would be (indiscernible). This caused self and there is no turning lane and there are no lights please let us know. (indiscernible) our power has already been diminished. So I do not think there is going to be a DOT engineer that said "Do not light up my vote for people can see better at night." I do not think that is for me to be an argument. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I have actually seen it before in Port Orange. So I am glad that you are convinced. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I believe you, I believe you. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Look at the ugly streetlights done on (indiscernible). 
 
SPEAKER: 
I believe you. But I think the point is if we want lighting, if you want that to be more late at night, (indiscernible) putting it in the hideaway, what Tree described we have the kind of light on their property that leads over into (indiscernible) or whatever it that allows for more enhanced lighting where people are pouring out. 
 
SPEAKER: 
DOT at least I am not opposed to that. 
 
SPEAKER: 
We can put in that stipulation. I am OK with that petitioner. 
 
SPEAKER: 
So what you are saying is it is not a heart condition. 
 
SPEAKER: 
If DOT does not permit the enhanced lighting and signage that they can continue. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Fair enough. 
 
SPEAKER: 
In our driveway permit stipulations, is there a limit on how white the driveway access can be? 
 
SPEAKER: 
We have a variety of dimensional requirements with regards to the orientation and the radius of the car. All of that is contained in (indiscernible). 
 
SPEAKER: 
So hypothetically, if we just wanted the access to include a decelerating without maybe, get a salary we do not have the parrot capability. It is 100% DOT habiting for the driveway on the science because right-of-way needs access (indiscernible) Department of c transportation. 
 
That we can go and eat with DOT and identify what we would normally require and identify the concerns that people comport forward today. But ultimately it is the department of transportation to approve it based on their standards. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Because I have seen some driveway access points that are a lot wider than your typically household driveway. And I am just wondering how white that can be, realistically. 
 
SPEAKER: 
The radius that you use the term in will dictate that. So we can talk with DOT that if they do not do the (indiscernible) plate or even if they do, that you have a larger radius so that it gives you a large area for somebody to get in. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Thank you. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I have one more question, probably for power. I just want to play phrases with this. This is part of the process. I think everybody up here wants to see this happen. But we have a responsibility to do our part to make it safe. Because we are part of the process. So we cannot say that everybody else had checked off on it. We have a responsibility and I am really pleased with what I am hearing here with the concerns that are being brought up. 
 
The 20, if the applicant has correctly sent by right, by law, they have to be given access, what happens FDot(?) Says there is no safe way to do it? 
 
SPEAKER: 
So you have to provide them access, the question is how expensive is that access, to be. One of the property rights is the right to enter and exit from a public road and her parents were flat or deny that unless you pay the about. So sometimes what they create a limited access roads, usually on ramps for elevated highways, they pay when they obtained the property, they also pay the right to deny access onto that limited access road. So it is a compensate for saying that the entity who is the nagging access takes. So if it is STLT Road it is their responsibility to either pay for damages for the lack of access or to require the applicant to construct a safe access point. 
 
SPEAKER: 
OK, thank you. You know, what we have set up here, you said and (indiscernible) claim, writing, none of us are trafficked people. But all of the things make sense. So I am hoping that MDOT will look at it and it will be sent to them as well. But still, if we approve this, it is out of our hands. We do not get accepted fight on it. The site plan is affecting you, it doesn't go back to us and administer that advantages and negotiated. 
 
TROY KENT: 
(indiscernible), this is before us because we get it right of this effort. I have a question for you. The picture on the left, what about the properties next to those? If those that develop, where is the access phone to be for them? 
 
SPEAKER: 
That is a very good concern because right now what you see it we basically have these properties up here. They are (indiscernible) with undeveloped access to the east of them and no access to the north. Or to the West. 
 
TROY KENT: 
Right. Right. So I just can't get out, and then I will just say, I am thinking about those vehicles travelling north on US Highway 7092. At a pretty good clip. And then (indiscernible), and US 70 thank you to offer, I thinking about that person on US Highway 1792 heading it off and trying to get over to get into this property and I will just say, I know that MDOT uses their problem, it is important to deal with, but I can but they felt that concern of mine. It is a safety concern. And, I do not know if there is an answer for it now. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Commissioner (unknown name), can I answer? So when you asked the question and you, I apologize. I am just as bad as you we are not to return the favour now. So when you asked the question earlier I was not thinking about access. The event itself is a limited access facility. So when we started this property I was asked to identify the limited access, and I have worked on properties with no legal access and we ended up figuring it out. 
 
But this time the limited access. The thought of our property. For the entity go? Omission of tenant, the property through an offer of the offramp do not have legal access to (indiscernible), it is a limited access right of way. 
 
I do not know what that does to the County (indiscernible), that is an unopened right of way behind us and we had the extra buses and things that we have to provide on our property and treated as if it is a right of way even though it is a bunch of words and will probably never have a property on it. Staff did not have a choice or not, it is just the way it went. So you do not have to worry about other properties coming in and asking if the access and they will get access and they will get access. They will not because it is a limited access right away. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Don, what is your concern? 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
Stacking. That would. I want a decel lane. I think he would've that I will sleep well at night. The 
 
LISA DYATKO: 
I agree with what has been said. That and writing. Use this world all of the time, it is a nightmare. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Those two things, just like I said before. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I am good to go. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
I will invent my motion and my new motion will be to present as presented, with emphasis on a decel lane and additional lighting to FTO two. And let's call this a night. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I want to ask Stephanie site, I think, you are talking about limited access to property behind the property, the applicant has mentioned that is an area that they cannot use of that they are requiring buffers because that is a right of way. Is that accurate? Do you know what area I am talking about? 
 
SPEAKER: 
These areas here are planted public right of way that cannot be constructed or accepted by (indiscernible). Leah-- they are what we call papal roads. 
 
SPEAKER: 
In his design, that few people further away from it because of the way it is designated. So in other words, if that did not exist for his project to move further east? 
 
SPEAKER: 
From that perspective always talk about is the landscape of buffering. The property line establishes the building setback. All that… Is necessarily established… Well, there would be a corner of the locks, correct? So if we interpreted that to be a non-owner and just sat inside property line that would shift the setback. 
 
SPEAKER: 
The reasons that I asked the question to my colleagues is that maybe if we determine that is a limited access, DOT will never let somebody come in on that limited access on 472. Maybe it helps the applicant in his design that we eliminate and vacate that might operate, allowing him to be more flexible and giving him a multiple student about enhancement or stacking or something better. Is that a feasible option?  
 
SPEAKER: 
I have to go back and confirm to the survey. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I'm looking for options that we can give to the applicant for the constraint of the site to give the applicant more opportunities to be creative. Thank you Mr Chair. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Don, I will call you in just a second, I think we need to clean this up a little bit. Vice Chair robins, can I get you with drawing your original amendment and you have a motion for another amendment still with your main motion to approve with a letter and now that would include the encouragement of a decel lane and lighting. That is your motion, is there a second? 
 
SPEAKER: 
I believe I already seconded this. The latest. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Did you? I didn't hear you. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Yes please. 
 
SPEAKER: 
We've all had four, five or six opportunities at this. What I don't want to happen, look at what is happening in Ormond Beach. Applicants are getting frustrated OK? They are able to do certain things, they are willing to compromise and right now we are trying to mitigate this. These folks know what they can and cannot do. We keep hitting this hornets nest. I understand the concerns but he can come back and do something far worse that will create much worse traffic and an engineering nightmare and he doesn't have to go through all this heartache right now. I get where everyone is coming from so don't take it personal, I want to err on the side of caution because I don't want this to become another (Name). 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
Let me just say because I heard the land to the east, looks like a sizable parcel and is landlocked. Obviously, the person who has the highest and best use for the property is the applicant because he is the only one who has access to the property essentially. If you were able to buy this property, the big parcel to the East with that entitle him to access in and out across the proposed easement to go onto this bigger parcel later on? And do we know what the parcel is owned currently? 
 
SPEAKER: 
I think it is currently zoned before like the property in front of us. Future land use on the map. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
 
If you were to buy that, would he be able to have full access onto 1792 when they are proposing the egress thereby basically expanding the use of the driveway? 
 
SPEAKER: 
This is only for the driveway. If it was under unified ownership he could utilize the driveway for access to the additional driveway. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
Would we have the ability to restrict usage of the driveway? Or would it be subject, we wouldn't be able to do anything. 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
It would have to be (audio issues) meet the design criteria but beyond that, if you provided and going back to the site plan, (Indiscernible). The subject property you are asking about is basically here. You are saying could he come across here with cross access? 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
Exactly. 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
That's a feasible alternative. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
50 acres at least? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
I don't know. 
 
SPEAKER: 
There are about 5 million different opportunities and options here. And it is not our business to try to figure out how to solve this problem and requesting that you (Away from mic). 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
It is our responsibility. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Mr Chairman it is not our responsibility to give this person a multitude of option including buying neighboring properties. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Do you concur with what we've just heard from Clay Irvin before we vote? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Depending on what is constructed on the adjacent property determines the type of access. This access is based on this particular use and location and if they bought the property, they may not be required to construct the same kind of access it might be more enhanced access but that is speculative because we don't know what the proposal is or what occurs with these two lots and the type of development dictates the type of access required. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you. And Jake my only point was that it wouldn't come to us if we didn't have some responsibility. It is not our responsibility to determine what FDO T will do but we are going to hand to the public a project that is already in a nightmare. I think it is appropriate for every Council member to voice their concerns. Now FDO T will take that and do their work. 

 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
I think we could've had a one-on-one earlier in the week or asked a bunch of questions and solve the problems earlier. But not here. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
You are free to think that. Michael Dyer before we vote. 
 
MICHAEL G DYER: 
I think we don't need to worry about it but emotion to call in questions, the motion is suspended but it is not a two thirds vote and if you're going to close and call for a vote it is not necessary but if you want that that would be the process. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Unless Don was up to speed. Everybody is done. 
 
SPEAKER: 
From a process standpoint, I want to make sure we understand the motion and have the appropriate second. I heard the motion on the table by Mr Robbins is approved with conditions that staff was given in the report with a letter of concern by counsel to DOT regarding addressing the decel and lighting and signing issues. Is that correct? That was seconded by Mr Johansen. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
That is correct. Please call the role.  

SPEAKER: 
 
(Roll Call Vote) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Motion fails 4 to 3. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Mr Chairman, point of order. 
 
SPEAKER: 
For staff, correct me if I'm wrong, at any time during the day to our Rule to procedure allow a member of the prevailing side to motion to reconsider any item before us during the day? 
 
SPEAKER: 
They do and Mr (Name) is going to address what we need to do. 
 
SPEAKER: 
There was a question presented in the question was to approve with certain conditions, the question failed. In order to formally deny the project, we would request an actual motion to deny or someone else can make another motion with different conditions to approve or make a motion to continue. The application is still live for lack of better terms, we don't have a final determination of denial of the project. What happened was a failure to approve that motion with those conditions. 
 
SPEAKER: 
With that, I make a motion that we table the item until the staff feel it is appropriate to bring it back to us. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Second. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
 we have a motion by Councilman Santiago to table until staff feels like they are... 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
What can staff bring back to us that is in the makeitfable.com wheelhouse. We have set forth policy and ask people to go through certain steps. We have voiced our concerns. And now, I am confused with what staff could bring back because we are doing everything within our policy rectally. I am lost. 
 
SPEAKER: 
For me, this is a tough one, I feel the problem they're very, very strongly. And I think it requires an enhanced or different look at the norm, from the norm. I think for me, it would be, I would like to see them go to DLT and have them come back and say this is what DLT thinks it will take to do that. I would feel more comfortable with that and vote. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
I would concur with that and it would be nice if we had a representative from F DOT here if that would be possible when you bring it back to hear from F DOT, I'm looking at three planners behind you. It would be nice to even hear from them. But I think we need, there are four of us that need reassurances from F DOT that this is alive and viable. Don Dempsey. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
if there was a decel ring I would be in favor of this. I am not understanding trying to... If the point of the merger is right with the driveway is going to be we have (Unknown term) vehicles, this is not a side road we are talking about it is a major thoroughfare. If there is one, the most likely hazard here is somebody merging into the 56,000 people a day thought a car was stopping sooner to pull into the storage unit. These cars are coming off at high speeds it is not a 20 mile an hour offramp. This is fast traffic coming through here. I know the fidelity that happened in the same circumstance years ago involving a motorcycle. So, I just, I would love to know the likelihood that DOT will approve this. I know we can't find your hands necessarily but it would be great to know if there was some comparable site developments that were joining state roads where they gave decel lanes. If they were to, if you were to come back with a bunch of examples of where DOT gave decel lanes on similar properties, I would feel much more comfortable taking the risk. This is a really dangerous area. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Could we agree that we will, again because at the end of the day, it is DOT's call. Can we agree that we will let County staff pursue a decel lane? If DOT denies the decel lane, we can't build it. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I think the best prediction of the future as the past. If you have examples of where DOT did give decel lanes in similar situations... 
 
SPEAKER: 
And projects I've had where we volunteered a decel lane because a client has wanted it for safety reasons, we have been allowed to build it. I can't stand here and tell you what DOT is going to do for sure. I can tell you that DOT is going to approve this driveway. There is no question about that. 
 
SPEAKER: 
The driveway but what about the decel Lane. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I don't want to stand here and tell you that because I can't speak for DOT. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I'd like to know if there is a way we can bind the developers hands to either do a decel lane or not? If they could commit to the decel lane not just applying for it but actually building it once approved. 
 
SPEAKER: 
If we asked for it and DOT allows it, then it is going to get built. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
County attorney, 
 
SPEAKER: 
Based on councils discussion, at this point Clay I would ask you to come and help me with this. So, special exception we have criteria in code for reasons you can deny it. One of those is if the application creates a hazard or public nuisance or could be dangerous to individuals or to the public. That is on page 6 – nine of your agenda item. What I hear from counselors we have concerns about ingress egress, access to the property and you would like some information from F DOT about possible options. 
 
So, you could proceed with talking about denying it but what I hear counsel talking about now, is give the applicant an opportunity to return with some information and we have a deadline to act and talk with (Unknown term) and if it returned in January or February, if we were to table the item or continue it, to return with the information.  
 
What we are linked to is the state has a mandatory (indiscernible) and it quickly takes the process of the things and the applicant has signed a waiver to that. So that means that the shot clock has been stopped by the applicant. That would give us time, you know, we typically want to have a continuing title to a specific issue for a specific timeframe. To help guide the Council here, perhaps what should be identified is that the team went for a maximum of 60 days to allow the applicant to meet with DOT and the Volusia County. 
 
Please be aware, for a DOT parents there is a level of plans that need to be developed. So I think what you are seeing is the engineer saying if we are going to be tonight, I would spend all the money to go through that. So it may be a conceptual approval for DOT. But again, to address the concerns, continuing it for 60 days, and directing the applicant to work with DOT at weekly Loudoun County to come up with some sort of agreement as to what can be developed there, as far as access, to include a decel lane and increase access may be a viable option. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I think that is where you want to go. So this is what the conversation is going. DOT is subject to design standards, some plans and engineering, they generally think that this could possibly work and that is enough for me. I will amend my motion to make (indiscernible) within 60 days to come back to counsel, for you. 
 
SPEAKER: 
So it could come back earlier. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Is there a second? Dom Dempsey seconded. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
I not 20 supporters but I just want the photographic about that. If the DOT denies this is because the ready to deny this (indiscernible) effect access? That is what they are headed. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I do not think that is where we are going down. They are not going to be denied access but how safely they have to make? What type of investment have to be made to make that access to safe for the public. That is where we are trying to go. 
 
At the end of the day that might make the cost of the project prohibitive but I think we owe it to the people who print that wrote everything to make sure it is done safely. But never to take anybody's rights away. D: we will see if everybody agrees with that. But I think that is good reasoning. It is taking our responsibility. I mean, you drive that, I tried it, you drive it, it is crazy. So it is going to be an (indiscernible). 
 
So the motion on the table Institute table 48 times certain to come back within 60 days with more information from FDOT. If we could tie it to the February 6, that would be (indiscernible).  
 
SPEAKER: 
That is fine. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Second. 
 
SPEAKER: 
OK. Discussion Victor Hansen. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
I know you are willing to negotiate a little bit here. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I know my client is going to be very disappointed obviously. But we would rather this fantasy tonight. At least we are going to have to have a conversation and see if we can continue with the project. So I appreciate it. Thank you. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Everybody wants to see it approved. But safely. What you call the… The motion of the table is to table the motion for the February 6 meeting. 
 
(Roll Call) 
 
SPEAKER: 
And the motion carried 6 to 1. If everybody good? Alright. We will see you again. 
 
That brings us to item 7. Adoption hearing or that nothing 23 – 23, with a comprehensive plan for affordable housing policy. 
 
SPEAKER: 
 Act what you see today our amendments to various elements of the comprehensive plan to implement the directive that the County Counsel has provided us in July 2022 with our affordable housing initiatives that were adopted. And then in subsequent meetings with smaller groups that focus specifically on what could be done from a (indiscernible) decision to help serve as incentives for people who wanted to develop affordable housing. 
 
We went ahead and proceeded forward with the proposed minutes consistent with the path forward strategy for success. So what we have done is you have seen way for impact fees and density bonuses for affordable housing bonuses. We have tried to focus the expedited review on this allowing for the fellow on accessory dwelling units and (indiscernible) is tied to a statutory allowance where if anybody has an excess the redevelopment unit they can get basically relief from impact fees if they have a minimum 20 year restriction saying they would not rent it for more than 20% of the AAI. 
 
This allows. Deviations from our standards to help accommodate and provide for flexibility and design in some of the affordable housing projects. And we modified our definition to match the state. This gives us an idea of some of the elements we are addressing, future land and definitions. Here are the policies that are contained in there and if there are any questions I will be happy to answer them. 
 
We did bring these forward to you after being reviewed by your planning and regulation commission as well as your affordable housing advisory committee both of those bodies recommended approval and transmittal to the state Department of Commerce and (indiscernible) management committee back in August. We have received letters from both of those agencies indicating that they find the proposed amendments consistent with the existing comprehensive plan and has no negative impact of state resources. 
 
So basically pulling forward to you for final action which would be adoption. If these are adopted today. With full forward and start making changes to regulations to implement them. If there were any questions, I will be happy to answer. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
motion to approve. 
 
JAKE JOHANNSON: 
I second. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Just a quick question about policy 5.1.1.9. It is concerning a wetland. It looks like the consideration will back to your department, growth and resource. 
 
SPEAKER: 
What we are talking about is… I am sorry, which number were you saying? 
 
SPEAKER: 
It is page 11, 5.1.1.9. So unless it is a certified affordable housing project that is designed in such a way as to avoid minimize impacts to the wetland and wetland buffers development activity should only be allowed of those portions of the property that are deemed by the counties (indiscernible). 
 
Has the potential come back to the Council? Administratively? 
 
SPEAKER: 
That would be the natural resource development area. And yet we have openings in future land use identify the natural resource management areas. There were specific prohibitions to prevent development from occurring and we have modified it such that if there is a plan that can be developed that are consistent with the remaining policies of our policies on affordable housing that somebody could do that. 
 
They would have to do an environmental assessment to the terms and whether or not there are wetlands on site or any protected species. Or if there is any kind of presents that to be contrary to the top of the natural resources development area we would not allow for the development to occur. But if it was consistent with the overall goal for the national resource development area we can proceed. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Thank you for clarifying. I didn't see any other questions, or in favour? 
 
SPEAKER: 
I have one question. I have read through all of this, and I have some questions. I want to make sure I clear on this. You are saying that if this passes, people with affordable housing to get up to a 40% deviation on it? Conventional glossitis. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Yes sir. 
 
SPEAKER: 
So we could actually have houses 1 per 1 acre, (indiscernible) respect and affordable housing there is not a not affordable one. 
 
SPEAKER: 
One of the critical things that is placement of affordable housing. We do not necessarily want to put affordable housing for they do not have access to schools, jobs and public transportation and those kind of things. So we are not necessarily valid for you know, impacts in some of our agricultural and environmental areas for affordable housing because I can, up with the people who may be at a disadvantage for a transportation or accessibility to the services out in the middle of nowhere. We are trying to focus it so that they are among later travel corridors and transit routes, and that is where we can do so. 
 
This is really trying to address some of the concerns brought up by the development community when we were looking at what is a major impediment to affordable housing. At the same. 
 
Think requirements or setback requirements. There are even identification of parking issues. So all of these are factored into that policy. How it is implemented in our code, we are still working through all of that but it is primarily focusing on setbacks and dimensional environments. We cannot open though the density that is established in the future land use map but we cannot afford a density bonus for affordable housing. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Have this opening to be decided yet? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Not yet. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Will that come back to us for a book? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Yes sir. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Any idea when that will happen? And well before the housing be expedited? Will there be a fascinating? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Yes, the age old adage, time is money. What can the government do to help with affordable housing is to revise the review time for that is something we can focusing on. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Are we talking about idea. But interventional developers to the back of the back of the line while affordable housing goes to the frontline? 
 
SPEAKER: 
A combination of both, depending on the situation. 
 
SPEAKER: 
So this is referred to housing may not otherwise qualify? Is that correct? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Yes. 
 
SPEAKER: 
So people result, I am against us. I think it should be a level playing field for all developers. I do not think certain developers should get preferential treatment of the building and affordable housing as opposed to conventional developers. We have a lot of complaints about how long it takes to get permits approved. Putting these people to the back of the line is I think unfair. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Vice-chair Robins? 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
I agree. Another thing, you know, Clay, I am trying to find this, with impact fees and all that can you please repeat it?  
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
Part of this is the state mandate. What we're looking at is the impact fee waivers there has to be a (Indiscernible) for that. It is not occupied and we were talking about the ad you and covenant and restriction would have to be a minimum of 20 years for affordability based on 20% of a.m. 
 
SPEAKER: 
We hear some of these political punchlines, this is one of the reasons why. I am all about equality in terms of everybody pays their fair share and pulse their own weight. These kinds of programs, I want to build a bridge and not a parking lot. Unfortunately that is not in my opinion what is happening in this society or in the bigger picture. I have an issue with that and the program will pay for itself if we keep approving this stuff. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
David Santiago. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
It's another tough one for me kind of, sort of. Don, I think the point on getting ahead of the line on the permitting process to me is a valid one. I would agree with that as you come in and dealt with I'd be amenable to that. As far as the program itself, we hear about affordability of housing and I've had the privilege to talk to several developers in my lifespan. I have talked to some that want to do it. But what happens often as they say the price point just to develop, puts it outside of the realm of what we would consider affordable where most standards consider it affordable. And what seems to be happening often is that government just gets more and more requirements on building or whatever it might and guess who the cost gets shifted off to? The person who is going to rent or buy. I know we have talked a lot about removing barriers or less cumbersome processes for constructing or developing, but the question really lies to does the government play a role? This is what we need to ask ourselves, does the government play a role in finding ways for people that can't get into traditional priced houses? Is that within our purview? Is it, and is it good for the greater good of all society to make sure people have access to a home without giving away the farm. I get it as well. 
 
Unless government finds ways to not continue to put additional barriers or requirements for people to habitate, we have to get creative. We can't say housing is too expensive, I'm not trying to put words in anyone's mouth. People say housing is expensive and the entry cost to doing that, we can't do anything about. I struggle with it because I understand where you are coming from, I do, I want you to know that. I will still love you, I will say that publicly. (Laughs) 
 
I think the government plays a role here and personally, I am open to saying let's maybe we can modify some of it. What makes sense and what doesn't? The permitting thing doesn't make sense. I will say that. Maybe some others but I think we should play some formal role. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Johansson. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
A few questions for Clay and maybe (Indiscernible) actually. So, this comp plan amendment, it actually moves forward the path forward strategies for success that was approved in March of 2022. Correct? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
Yes sir. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
So if we deny this we would be saying let's take a real luck or we don't think the path forward we approved in 2022 is valid? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
We would have to go back and see basically, from a staff perspective we would ask specifically what you want to change so we could go back and come back with either amendments or if it is a situation where the whole package is something you don't want to see. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
I don't want a strategy and not have a comp plan amendment to support the strategy or vice versa. And so, the next question I have is how much of this has the live local act swallowed? Any of it? I see where it says it is separate but is there anything that the live local act has swallowed in this? Since March of 2022. 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
live local act has focused on nonresidential structure. I would say, under our current proposal you see here there is an element of live local. It was really looking at eliminating the not in my backyard and allowing for commercial and mixed use and industrial to be utilized for affordable housing. And then talked about tax benefits and tax exemptions and those types of things. We are not really focusing on trying to expand into non-residential areas, we were not talking about tax exemptions here, we were talking about utilizing fees as a financial incentive. There are two different angles. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
And in general, in this state, do you possibly see denial of this as being something that the legislature would look at, say if it was done say wide and said hey, we need the (Away from mic) because counties, cities and other municipalities aren't really making efforts? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
I don't think so because this is a small call plan for Volusia County and it is a local initiative. We are trying to predict what the legislature will do, it's something I'm not really good at. I don't want to try. Anything is possible but again, this is a policy decision of the County Council. If you feel it is appropriate we can go forward and if you would like us to eliminate some or modify some, we can. If you want to get rid of the whole thing, we can do that. Whatever your directive is we will do. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
We don't have a motion yet, is that correct? FREED Inc we have a motion to approve by David Santiago, and you made the second. I will go to a quick comment and be done. I would like counsel to know that I am (Unknown term) so I spend a lot of time with a diverse group of folks on that committee and they really opened my eyes to some things that I was probably ignorant of. I've gone to a Florida housing coalition conference or two and met some very interesting people that are doing great work to do good things and try not to use government money to do it. Sometimes a bridge and not a parking lot. 
 
We looked at a lot of things and I've been critical of a lot of them going through it and so, I will let you know that the (Unknown term) committee did a pretty good job of looking through this and talking about the pros and cons. That is all I have, thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
A couple of questions for you. Did you just say there is no overlay yet? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
Not yet. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
And you said you don't know when it is coming back, next year? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
Our goal is to try to get it done as quickly as possible. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Is any of this possible before an overlay? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
You have already done some of these things on a one-off via the PUD processor project that came through for habitat for humanity off of Fleming is one. There were similar types of things for projects in Daytona Beach for basically payments and assistant to buy down some of the costs utilizing (Indiscernible) funds. So you can basically, it is the Council's directive to do this to these one-off process but this was trying to do, put in place goals, objectives and policies that could be implemented through the land and zoning regulations to minimize the time required for review and help reduce the overall cost of affordable housing. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
This has been approved by the state? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
Again, the Department of Commerce review zipper impacts and state resources and indicated it did not impact state resources and provided the letter is included, it is consistent with the goals of the state. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
One more question, while I agree with Councilman Dempsey, it would be nice for everybody to have a level playing field but the fact is, with the playing field we have now, there is a dearth of affordable housing and so, I am reluctant to undo. I think what was about a two year process by people developers, attorneys, homeless advocates, and resolve the public. Staff members, of coming up with a affordable housing program and one thing the developer says is that we can't cover costs much less make any money with this. So, we have offered to negotiate some permit reductions. Parking setbacks and all kinds of things. And everybody in the end agreed, correct? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
Yes sir, we had a summit earlier, later in 2021 at the ocean center and they came forward with the final resolution in July of 2022. When you provided this document, the five-year plan with the path forward strategies for success. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
If we don't approve it are we sending it back and saying start over again? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
Yes sir. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Alright, thank you. Vice chair robins. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
I am trying to put this in perspective. We approved 200 million in affordable housing initiatives and more prior to that. Don't get me wrong, we want to try to be something to a lot of people and make our money count but we also need to think about why do we have the lack of housing we do. It is supply and demand. I want people to be treated equally across the board was a lot of this stuff. And Mr Santiago, to some of your concerns, I look at it as what do we have control here locally, the reason things are the way the arts a lot coming from the national level. Everything is too expensive, inflation the highest it has been in decades. Supply chain issues. We don't have control over that but do we put that burden and bad decisions on voting day on the back of our local taxpayers. We have (Indiscernible) and all of these funds. 
 
I encourage everybody to listen to that song that has been out for a while, Richmond north of Richmond. You understand where I'm coming from on this. I don't mean to hurt any feelings but I see it as an issue. I want to see us do more for the everyday folks as well. I think there is, a lot of the process is unfair and it is being counterproductive all stop we do a lot in this area and I just, I think we need to look at this a little bit closer, that is all. We can buy down everything but if we buy down everything and keep subsidizing it, we will never have low taxes. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
I agree with everything you said. I think I said earlier on a number two on another subject, we all agree pricing is high right now and materials are high but it has come down. The cost of a sheet of plywood and lumber has gone down significantly. If you look at the last 22 years under the Florida housing price index, right now we are at 803, the highest it has ever been but a mere 10 years ago, it was almost 1/4 of that, 1/3 of that, 271 and in 06 it was 479 and five years before that it was 235. In the last 22 years if you followed real estate, in 01 it was 235 and then it nearly doubled in five years, the prices. And then, six years later, it cut in half, 271, 2012, that was the crash we know about and now we are up post pandemic, we are at 803. And I would suggest that according to these articles that the Florida housing prices have gone up 50% since the start of the pandemic. So, we were about 400 pre-pandemic so the market fluctuates. 
 
If we really are a capitalist society, if you are true to the soldiers they fought to preserve capitalist and were called capitalist pigs because we believed in capitalism and not communism. In a capitalist society you have to let the free market dictate everything.  
 
And I think when the government tries to step in it is not free enterprise. So whatever you want to call this I think it is unfair to our system. I think the market should work itself out. I think if we could go back to pricing and the way it was pre-pandemic, and whatever it was, I know that condos that were going for $40,000, if they could just be patient and let the three are currently working out, I think supply and demand in and of itself would dictate whether pricing needs to be. I do not think it is right for us to spend taxpayers money to give out to try and correct market. 
 
I do not think this is the answer. We have all had talk origins and we have had to pull ourselves up and work, and I do not think they should push it on other taxpayers let alone go to the front of the line (indiscernible) because somebody else that special privilege because it is affordable housing projects. So you have to wait longer than currently. B: I appreciate the conversation. Let me ask a question first. Before I thought my comments out. It is time sensitive? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
Yes sir. It is not like we have to have it done. If you want to continue, to bring it back you can do so. We just need to notify the Department of Commerce. 
 
SPEAKER: 
The reason I ask that question is I think there are parts of this, and I get the physical site, there are parts of this that do not cost money. Can we eliminate a buffer for a project like that? Landscape requirements? I am just pulling out the different ideas. So I am open to this as an individual, maybe we can send staff aware creating some type of fiscal impact analysis as to "OK, if we were to do this what would we see the marketplace as? What would we see at the marketplace that was accepted under these terms. You guys can expand, but let's say that physical impact is… I am the idea, $30 million. 
 
I would be open to saying let's reduce it for everybody by $30 million. And then see what the cost of that is. I retreated from a fiscal perspective everybody equally and without a way to reduce everybody. 
 
So I think the items that do not cost anything, we can work with that. And to develop an affordable housing type of project or whatever the numbers are, you do not have to do all the things. So I just want to further out there to the Council. I stagger up with. I want you to know that. I do. (indiscernible) based on that. I am just curious. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Thank you chairman. Another thing to consider, that Mr chromocenter gather… Now that we have a little bit of with going, I talked a little bit about the live local act. But that was in its infancy when it all started. And one of the things that scared me about the live local act is that when we put residential work commercial can't be, that is taking (indiscernible) away. (indiscernible) but it residential (traversal should be relevant rather. 
 
So I didn't want to take this project down the road. It prevents developers from using the link local act and taking us in the shins, and the building where we can do business, we want the business, or we have identified the areas of business and I want residential to do residential, where we have determined it is residential. 
 
Say we set the three rejected this entire plan, developers that are affordable housing oriented, will enforce the lift local act and use our business areas or other commercial areas or mixed-use areas to do what they were doing here. So it is a balance. And we do need to talk through that. I think it is best to analyse post liberal (indiscernible) according to (indiscernible) and like you said, maybe maintain some of those (indiscernible). 
 
SPEAKER: 
Who said that? 
 
SPEAKER: 
David 30 (. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I move that we table this item for 60 days. With direct and staff to get the job as again on this particular topic and maybe see if they could come to some other options for us. To modify this. It: we have a motion on the table. 
 
SPEAKER: 
We have talked about it for so long I forgot and made a motion. I would like to withdraw my motion and I would like to make a second motion. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Your motion is withdrawn.  
 
SPEAKER: 
There are some additional alternative to baby Alcott.: Maybe problematic because it involves estate as well. If you would like to continue what we would request that you take it to (indiscernible). The staff sufficient time for it? Know what is going on, and also, the 180 days until March. To ask for an extension or kill it. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I think we have our work to do, we have our work items on your calendar, the Department of Commerce has been very gracious in extended the deadline and I have no concerns estate will cooperate with us on that. And we will try to bring it back in February that 90 days gives us a little perspective. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I will second the motion. 
 
SPEAKER: 
The have a motion by David Santiago to table for 90 days to that the staff to come back with additional alternatives. 
 
SPEAKER: 
(indiscernible) you want of unintended consequences that could actually make that problem was. My concern is that may be true and that could be the case, I am a capitalist and what I have seen over probably the last 30 years is whatever the market is, up and down, the price of housing just keeps going up. So I think that is why there is a genuine concern here. And that is what the developer said when they came to the table. If you would consider adjusting some of your requirements and permits that it makes it affordable. 
 
Your point is to adjust it for everybody at you and Justin that the market will build more affordable housing. 
 
SPEAKER: 
That is a question for me. I think it is kind of vein to think that we can control the real estate markets to that extent. I mean, I guarantee that each one of you knows of some piece of property that you were looking at five or 10 years ago, maybe five years ago, and maybe a health authority for on the market, (indiscernible) maybe double my money. 
 
We all know of examples like that. So (indiscernible), that rapid increase, and the pricing was not because of some County Counsel changing regulations, it was something that is about. So I do not think taking money from one person or giving people preferential treatment ahead of others is going to change the market. I think we just have to be patient and wait for the market to correct itself.  
 
SPEAKER: 
so with that I will call for the vote for… 
 
David Santiago has made a motion to table this for 90 days. 
 
SPEAKER: 
This is a public hearing, whether any public comments? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Yes. Thank you. We have one person in the public you would like to speak. 
 
SPEAKER: 
(indiscernible) Daytona Beach. Put on it. I can land anywhere I want to. Because I am homeless. I have been building my entire life. I graduated high school with six years of drafting experience. Under my high school teacher. And (indiscernible), that taught clumping or electrical. Mechanical. Losing. Residential. Commercial buildings. That is how I became a master carpenter and a master painter. 
 
I have heard every single thing here. And the biggest thing that I need to argue with you is your indecision. You are questioning yourselves. Which means you do not want to make a decision. That is what that means. 
 
I have been fighting for homeless shelters around here for a while. I got into its to help myself and to help the people who could not afford housing here in Florida. My wife and her dad lived here in Florida, we have family himself. Helsinki going up because (indiscernible). The realtors say that they can sell it. So if you really want to make affordable housing you need to go to the realtors, and after what the argument. Because they are telling every person who is putting the house on the market, developers, builders, bankers, that we can get more money for it. 
 
That is the agency you can talk to about affordable housing. Because they are straight up telling people that your house pricing is too low. And your housing is not large enough. They want the house is bigger. And bigger. And bigger. Single-family houses. And if it is not a single-family house, they want multiple families. That is what they want. 
 
I know, I am an expert. And I have been watching what we have all been doing. The years. I became a decrepit pocket. Some of you do not want to hear from you. I live a little too young. I would not say that to me. I will argue that until I die. Think about that. And everything that I told you is to educate you. Nothing else. 
 
My name is Doyle Dougie Lewis and I am a professional commercial builder. Think about that.  
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
That was the only comment . Thank you. With that, I will move to vote. 
 
(Vote) 
 
That passed 7 to 0. With that, we will break for lunch until 1 PM. 
 
(Break) 

SPEAKER: 
Mic check, one, two, three. 
The County Council will reconvene at 1 PM. 
 
Mic check one, two, three. The County Council will reconvene at 1 PM. 
 
(Break)  
 
(Music plays)  
 
SPEAKER: 
Welcome to the Volusia County Council meeting, the meeting will begin in 10 minutes. 

(Music plays) 

SPEAKER: 
Welcome to the Volusia County Council meeting, the meeting will begin in five minutes.  
 
SPEAKER: 
Welcome to the Volusia County Council meeting. The meeting will begin in two minutes. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Mic check. 123. 
 
Mic check. 123. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
If everybody would find a seat. We will get started in 60 seconds. 
 
OK, we will resume the meeting at 1:02 PM. We are on item 8. A resolution to rezone from the Light Industrial I-1 zoning classification at 3697 Old DeLand Road, Daytona Beach to a PUD zoning classification. Within industrial sub classification. 
 
Mr Clay Ervin. 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
Good afternoon. The property is located within a (indiscernible) area. Any time that you have a change of nonessential use, we do require a rezoning to PUD. This was to allow residents in the area, as you can see this is the area and the residents were concerned about the residential uses and also Commercial uses that are along Old DeLand Road along 92. 
 
We wanted to make sure that the PUD process would be established in a public hearing so that folks can see what's being done. The applicant is requesting a PUD in two phases. Establishing a contractor storage yard. The first part will be preparing the site and the second phase would include two storage areas of roughly 9000 ft.² with (indiscernible) with the other. 
 
Went forward with the recommendation to your PDL RC and this gives you an idea of any future development of the site. And there was no Public Participation and it's coming to you with the recommendation for approval for both the staff and the planning and land development Regulation Commission. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Any questions for staff? Vice Chair Danny Robins. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Motion to approve. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Danny Robins makes a motion to approve. Second by David Santiago. Any discussion? There is no discussion. 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
Chair, this is a quasi judicial. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
We do need to declare that this is Ex Parte. OK, the applicant is not here but it sounds like we have a motion to approve and as second. All in favor say I. Any opposed? Motion carries seven – zero. 
 
Item 9, a special exception for a private school at 3804 pioneer trail at New Smyrna Beach on Prime Agriculture zone property.  
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
This shows the subject property that is currently utilized for (indiscernible) and it's looking to establish a therapeutic school at here. They have a two-faced prong approach. They will be using the existing site for the first part, and that's where they will be bringing on 50 students to utilize horses for part of the therapy and assistance with their students. 
 
The ultimate goal is to expand this to K8 population so that that way they can expand opportunities to students they are seeking to bring onto the site. This is a layout of what they would like to be doing. You have outdoor education and this gives you an idea of what it would look like completed. 
 
They utilize the equestrian facilities as part of the therapy for the students. I went to the PDL RC and CU have operations where we talked about the natural buffing around it and some of the other requirements that might be necessary. 
 
This gives you the general direction. As you can see, there's a recommendation of approval. This is consistent with your staff. The applicants are here if you would like to hear for them. It's coming to you with a recommendation of approval. If there any questions, staff would be happy to answer them. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Questions? There's no questions. Jake Johansson? 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Real quick, what's this property is for now? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
It's currently a farm and it has horses on there as well. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
They teach kids how to - am I in the right place? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
The applicants will be able to give you more details. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Alright. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Good afternoon. (Muffled audio) 
 
The Easter Seals bought the property and bought it as a stable. And they also did some equine therapy and they have a little sensory trail that was essentially a privately run activity. The bulk of the property was used as pasture. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
I am now. I just had to make sure it was the one I'm thinking of. It seems to be doing training and education throughout the week anyhow. Thank you, chairman. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Vice Chair Danny Robins. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Motion to approve. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Motion to approve by Danny Robins- 
 
SPEAKER: 
Mr Reinhart would like to speak. 
 
TROY KENT: 
He's really good at playing freeze tag. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
We cannot hear you if you're speaking. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
Can you hear me? I have the best Wi-Fi, not. Thank you very much for letting us tour the facility. I know this is quasi judicial, so I will disclose that now that I toured the facility. Somebody asked a question because there was a close neighbor, and that the neighbor that is adjacent to this property was in full favor of this project. And that speaks volumes for that and what that is trying to accomplish there. 
 
I am a huge advocate for this program, so thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Very good. They could probably use that corrections. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Is the Wi-Fi in your house better than the one at jail? 
 
(Laughter) 
 
MATT REINHART: 
Never mind. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
You can tell it's close to lunch. 
 
The applicants are looking at us like, what is going on here? You know what? This is a really good project and I'm happy to see it happening. You are keeping the property in agriculture but using it for the benefit of people that will benefit from it. So I will support it. 
 
Before I call Mr Kent, this is a Quasi-Judicial Hearing, does anyone have any Ex Parte? 
 
Matt does. And you just said you spoke to them. Thank you. 
 
Councilman Kent? 
 
TROY KENT: 
Just briefly I just wanted to tell the applicant Congratulations. I'm super excited that you will offer this in Volusia County for our families and I wish you nothing but success. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Vice Chair Robins? 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
I did also do a site visit and spoke to the applicant. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK. Very good. When do you anticipate opening if this passes? 
 
SPEAKER: 
If this passes today then we will start with a further design and planning for the infrastructure work and we will be looking to get it running as soon as possible. 
 
SPEAKER: 
We have sites plans for phase 1. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
We will see you again probably. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Yes you will. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
We have a motion to approve by Robbins and second by Johansson. All in favor say I. Any opposed? And you are approved 7-0. 
 
Item 10. Ordinance 2023 – 46. An ordinance amending section 22 – 706 of chapter 22, Volusia County Code of Ordinances requiring properties that abut the Atlantic Ocean to have the property address displayed so it is visible to the public on the beach. Clay Ervin. 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
This was directed from County Council back in May. We've been coordinating with the other coastal governments in Ormond Beach and Daytona Beach, Ponce Inlet, and New Smyrna Beach to inform them what we are doing, so we can hopefully have uniformity in the implementation. 
 
If approved, we will have 120 day grace period where we will be making outreach and informed they have to post the address. It can be painted on the seawall or in a separate sign. We do not have any restrictions on that and all we require is (indiscernible) so it is visible from the beach. 
 
If approval, we will go forth from there. Basically code enforcement to let people know what the rules and regulations are. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Any questions for staff? Councilman Johansson? 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Clay, this says that you will reach out to the other cities and they are interested. Do you see any problems with the other cities joining in? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
Not at all. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Next thing I will be for comment. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Kent. 
 
TROY KENT: 
The 12 inches for the size of the letters. You know when it's high tide, that's perfectly acceptable but I'm just curious where we came up with that number? Would it be better to have a larger number there? I'm just a little concerned that a little more effort for people to rush up and look. When they are calling 911 and saying this is where the emergency is, every second counts. 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
That was a comment that was brought up by one of our colleagues cities and it was echoed by the Ponce Inlets. We originally identified (indiscernible) and it's still basically visible. There was a concern that we do have low tide and people can be further away. That was a question but consensus of the group was 12 inches, that would be sufficient.  
 
SPEAKER: 
Mr Chair, I also believe that Mr Reinhart had his hand up. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
The question was answered with regards to 12 inch numbers and letters. This is something that I asked for a while back. This was the question was brought up by Daytona Beach who does not do it. So maybe now that commissionable have a leg up in trying to get the time to accomplish that consistently. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Would you like to make a motion? 
 
MATT REINHART: 
The motion is there. It is up to the cities to do that. But I am good with the way it is addressed on this ordinance. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I do not think we have a motion yet. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Motion to approve. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
I second. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Any other question and discussions? All in favour say I. None opposed. The motion carried 7-0. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
Thank you. 
 
KARISSA GREEN: 
Mr Reinhart did want to speak on this item. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
What item? OK. Tell him no. (Laughs) 
 
Item 11, (indiscernible). Resolution finding public purpose and approving issuance of helping the Finance Authority of the lease account (indiscernible). 
 
SPEAKER: 
I think you skipped over the hours of operation. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
I did. I was looking at the notes on the one that we just did. OK. Item 11 is an important one, amending section 50 – 746, except for (indiscernible) 72-703, by establishing new hours of operation for construction activities. 
 
SPEAKER: 
The regulations without that were in place under restricted hours of operation were too restrictive. And as such, we have come back and change the ordinance. So we have utilized sometimes to identify which is 6 AM as a start at 9 PM at the time. And again, this is not necessarily pertaining to construction activity but who knows. You can still do construction so long as the noise is not creating problems. 
 
There was a also a question as to how other government information county regulate this type of activity with regards to noise issue so that is included in here. If there is any questions we will be happy to answer them. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
Any question from counsel? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Did you have a question? 
 
TROY KENT: 
Are the current hours the county has, Monday to Friday, 7 AM to 7 PM, and it is Saturday Sunday 10 AM to 10 PM? 
 
CLAY ERWIN: 
S. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
I push to approve. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Second. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Clay, you said this only affects noise. It doesn't impact construction. (Indiscernible) but still go on but it just affects the noise. 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
Correct. (indiscernible). We want to make sure that it is clear that if you have an enclosed building and you are in there pointing and (indiscernible), (indiscernible) that is not audible at the property line, there will not be any issue. The issue is noise as it contains period?. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Thank you very much. 
 
TROY KENT: 
My comments on this, counsel, please do not do this. Here is what I asked myself whether this initiate? Why did it come from? Because I did not have any residents reach out to me and say "Hey, I would like to have more noise in my life around my house, earlier. It also could you help me out and let the noise continued longer than what we currently are allowed to have?" I have had nobody out for that 
 
On the contrary, since this happened I have had many residents reach out to me and say why would you do this? Why would you impact our quality of life and our homes, why? 
 
I could be wrong on this, but I think this came up because a development that was doing some work up in the Halifax plantation area you know, there were some issues with what kind of construction was started. I know I received an email with some videos on them, timestamp. And I gotta tell you, I would not want to live next to that. Not for one month, not for one day! 
 
The times that we have, Monday through Friday, 7 AM to 7 PM is appropriate because construction needs to happen. Excuse me. And it will happen. On Saturday and Sunday, at 10 AM to 6 PM, listen. I could bend on that one little bit. I can bet on that one spot I have, and I can even go until 7 PM on that if I had to. But, I have not had an outcry or an outpouring of the residents acting for us to change this. I think this negatively impact the quality of life for our residents. 
 
Home is a soft place to land. It should be. And you know, the thought of well, when somebody is building next to you it is only happening for a short period of time, because then the building is there, this opens the door for anybody who has a landscaping company or a tree trimming company, and I have not had one constituents that I represent say that they want that in their lives. 
 
On the contrary, my former life as a city Commissioner I had people complaining about what time the garbage truck was showing up to pick up garbage because it was breaking them up and it was right. We had to talk to that company and tell them what our hours of operation while talking with the just. I think 7 AM to 7 PM is appropriate that I would be willing to spend a little bit on Saturday and Sunday. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
I would agree with you for all the reasons that you said. I cannot support six till nine. I am comfortable. I do not think either way is against business or pro-business. We have this as a community standards to protect the quality of life, the same reason we have suffered zoning restrictions in the area. So I would prefer it to be 7 to 7, Monday through Saturday. And Sunday, my preference would be to shut it down altogether. I will listen to the Council on that. 
 
Again, this is just affective noise. It is not affecting noise, it is just affecting over 60 dB. The vice chair? 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
I hear all that, I truly do. I respect that. And I could possibly agree. Maybe in a city setting. Often HOA second. I think we do have to remember that we are in unincorporated literature, for the most part, billed out and owned by the city, a small area in Darbyshire. Halifax Plantations is almost filled out. At the end of the day, I think that comes out of principal. I just want to let people know where it is coming from. We have taken a stance on deregulating the economy, to clean up some of these burdens we have on the books. 
 
With that being said, I need a complaint to address something based on my values. But based on what the agenda that I have seen from counsel. So at the end of the day, we claim to work for the people. This is where I am coming from. We claim to work for the people. And yet we regulate how people can work, when they work, how they work. How much taxes they pay. Regulate at the stroke of a pen, how much affordable housing ,but yet, we busted their chops on how they produce that money to pay for affordable housing that we are given to somebody else. 
 
So this is where I am coming from. I think by adopting this, it is going to send a clear message. It is going to send a clear message that we want to work in the county. We want our working-class people to work in this company. And that we are paying attention. I think this is a monumental first step to defect electing our economy, and actually loosening things up. And for leveling the playing field. For these localities burdensome democracies we have created over the last 40 or 50 years. 
 
So, that is what I had. I represent a lot of the people, and I think we need to loosen this up and little bit. (indiscernible) 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
You have said something and the chair said something, as you said that construction noise cannot emanate beyond the property line. And then the chairman says the six decibels. Is that one and the same? When you say no noise the green no noise about 60 dB or no notice? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
(indiscernible) measured at the property line. There is an exception as we say, and we extend out (indiscernible). 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
During these hours we are proposing right now. So that is not to say that at 6 o'clock in the morning, some of the complaints we thought about Halifax plantation were preparing vehicles. And so, I did not go to Halifax plantation, but I got one of these whizbang little noise metres because we used to check the stuff. And I went a decent distance from some better equipment operating and 60 dB is pretty loud. I do not want to say it can be bothersome but it could wake you up, it could wake me up anyhow. 
 
So I want to make sure that… I would prefer to just stick with the statute and say from the working hours of whatever to whatever, it can go about that. But then we shut down. But we need to kind of get people to understand that 60 dB doesn't mean it is not going to wake you up. 60 dB doesn't mean it is not going to prevent you from falling asleep. 60 dB is 60 dB and it can be a little bit bothersome but that is what our alternate sense. 
 
Not to mention all of the other natural law and format that can make no it is about 60 dB and we are not regulated. So, you know, I do like consistency. I see there is a lot of municipalities with and without. Sometimes more or less. Mr Martens brings up a good point about the limits (indiscernible) in unincorporated Volusia County. But I do not want Tuesday and Wednesday to be one time and Tuesday and Thursday to another and then Saturday yet another and Sunday being yet another. So I would like to be consistent across the board, seven days a week. I am willing to move around a little bit on that. 
 
6 AM rightly a little bit early to start the hammers and nails on a roof, if you are a neighbour.I think most garbage companies start at seven? Is that true? I'm not sure. 
 
TROY KENT: 
7 AM. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
The other thing that a few folks talk to me about is 7 PM is pretty late in the winter. It's been dark for three hours but 9 PM in the summer is pretty early because it's still light out. You know, that's another variation that I don't know if I want to get into. 
 
I would like to wiggle around with the time a little bit and work at something that allows people to kind of prepare to get into action before 7 AM, and then start at seven and work as long as I possibly can. Being very cognizant of the time and they can continue working after that time, but they just need to keep the noise down to 60 dB. 
 
I'm sure that most construction companies can buy a meter to determine what their noise level is. That's all I have to say. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Matt, I will take you in order. Councilman Kent? 
 
TROY KENT: 
Councilman Johansson, I'm really pleased that you are willing to wiggle on the time because I think that's probably what we need to do. To Councilman Robins, even if you get this that still regulating it. Not regulating would be doors open. 
 
All through the night, all through the day, when everyone. This still regulates it and as far as the comment as sending a message, I want to send a message to the residence, not just the developers but also the developers and the tree companies, and the lawn care companies because they are residents too. 
 
They have families and they have parents. And they go home for a soft place to land. It just makes me think of a couple of my constituents who live in Ormond by the sea and they happen to have my same last name. They are in their mid-70s and God willing, we are all going to get there. 
 
And my parents, I know if it's past 7:30 PM I am not calling them because they are asleep. Now they may wake up at 4:30 AM but they may wake up at 7 AM, but at 7:30 PM they have retired for the night and they are going to bed. 
 
Now, my daughter, who has two children under two, I can tell you. Hudson, who is sleep trained, which is a real thing, if you're not sure about it check out Doctor Ferber and the Ferber method. But Hudson who is sleep trained at 19 months old and Truitt who is not, but Hudson goes to sleep between 6:30 PM and 7 PM every night. 
 
Gabby and Tim will not come to certain events or things that we will do because it will mess up Hudson sleep. I told him that's great parenting. Don't mess up your kid because events we have are things we want to do. I love that they make that a priority but if we are allowing not just construction, but any type of noise to happen, we've got those people as well. 
 
I want to send a message to those residents that we care about some quiet time at your home. It's important to us as your elected officials. I'm willing to admit that those individuals who do that type of work, they do appreciate quiet time at their house. And if those that don't, listen, they can put on headphones and listen to rock 'n' roll all night long if they want to. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Matt Reinhart. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
Thank you Chair. I was kind of curious when they talked about the hours of operation and I know that the 6 AM part was kind related to concrete trucks. A lot of them will go for the early pour. The 9 PM, somebody brought up the point about the time of year, where during the summer time 9 PM is still light out. I don't know if we are amenable to the idea. 
 
I like consistency as well but what Jake had said, but seasonal, is that something we want to discuss? Maybe I'm getting too deep into the woods but when you talk about wintertime when it gets dark earlier, people settle in. And during the summertime, activities go longer. I don't know if that's something that everyone wants to entertain or not. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you. Vice Chair Robins? 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
I just want to go down memory lane. I was on the Council and I voted to adjust this to where it's at today. In the complaint came from Halifax Plantation. OK. Halifax Plantation is in its final phases, so you know, Mr Ervin, where are we at? When we adopted this? Do you remember? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
I think there was an inconsistency of the building code, which had the 7 to 7, and then the 10 to 6 but the chapter 50 exempted out all of construction. That's why we came back with the amendments that were approved in May because we had inconsistency before the building code and what was in our noise in chapter 50. So we made them all the same and now making both of them the same again. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
This applies to everybody, just to be clear. You have to do some of these activities around your house. It's unincorporated Volusia. We've gone over what places are built out. When I moved down here, I started out roofing and pouring concrete. The later you start, the hotter it is. The more dangerous it gets and you know, I will tell you what, Mr Kent you brought up a good point. It's still regulating it. 
 
Come to think of it, I'd be willing to get rid of the whole shooting match to make my message as strong as possible. Because of what we expect from the people and this is temporary. When people are building houses. Mr Johansson brought this up the first go around. And we have to understand and respect that. 
 
Do we know what time our garbage trucks to start? I know our recycling trucks - do they go out at five? 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
All the contracted stuff that we do is 7 o'clock. There are things that we don't control that they can do whatever. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Do we have a worktime, Mr Manager, for the county Government? 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
We do not and there's some reasoning behind that. We get into things like night work on roads and utilities, so that we have minimal interruption for public. So we do not have that. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
I understand that but we are making, if you think about it in the grand scheme of things, we are making interruptions for the people that we work for, and that's my whole point: what is good for the goose has to be good for the gander. I'm trying to level the playing field and come to some sort of compromise. Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Dempsey. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
I would kind of parrot what Mr Robbins just said. I agree with you. (Indiscernible) I know when you pour concrete, they want the concrete truck there as early as possible. You do not want the concrete to set up before it gets hot out. If you are roofing, you don't want to be on the roof when the afternoon thunderstorms coming. You want to get stuff done as quickly in the morning, before the heat comes in. 
 
Like you said, it's all temporary. I would imagine most of these complaints are generated from subdivisions and so it seems like these people that complain, are the close the door behind me. It's OK at my house and for the morning, because I want to hurry up and get in, but don't let my neighbor and convenience me when it's him. 
 
I think if anything, the typical annoyance would only last for a week, maybe two. At most. But I think that's just the price you pay for moving into a subdivision. I understand Councilman Kent's concerns but the facts of life are that we are in a growing economy and there's people with a housing shortage and to meet the demand, we have to work as quickly as possible to finish these houses. 
 
I back you Danny. I'm OK with the way it is now. Thanks. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Santiago. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Thank you Mr Chair. This is the third day we have discussed this thing, almost the same talking points. Mr Chairman, I closed the question. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
We still have two people that want to talk. The question has been called and we will take a voteif you want to end debate. It has to be 3 quarters, two thirds majority. 
 
There is three members of the public that went to speak and I will not correct them. 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
I just need to correct something I said. I remember a lot of things but apparently I'm a little behind on the garbage contract. It's now 6 AM. I think it's significant your point and I want to make sure it's correct. It's 6 AM. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Before I vote, was there so someone waiting to talk on the Council? 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
The point of the motion is to avoid that. If you want to call the public. It's been a dead horse for two days but I respect that. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Carla (Name). 
 
SPEAKER: 
My name is Carla Shook and I live in Ormond Beach. I'm back to state more thoughts on your proposed code hours of 6 AM to 9 PM, seven days a week. As mentioned last time, that would be 15 hours a day, 365 days a year. 
 
When you question a local resident who emailed to you a letter. You wondered how the change of hours could possibly impact a residence quality of life. Visual the following see better understand my perspective: the construction site is directly behind my house and I have heard noise in the very early hours for 10 months straight. 
 
Imagine living in a site where you are walking up at 4 AM seven nights a week. Soon we will endure drilling, hammering, and whatever sounds that will incur and mine will be there for the next three years. Imagine these sounds would be in your house or place of work. I'm pretty sure it would affect your quality of life as well. 
 
In the previous minutes, one of you said it's just the little section of Halifax Plantation complaining. To me it seems we are the only ones who have ever complained. Every person who hears noise outside of code hours complaints. They might not have the confidence to come here and speak or they might have had to work today and cannot express their frustrations. 
 
My neighbor and I have met hundreds of complaints to the board. We have jumped through hoops with the ever-changing Volusia County code enforcement rules. In the end no one was held accountable. 
 
For anyone thinks that there will be a recourse for any construction related violations, you are sorely mistaken. If these new hours pass, this would be a free-for-all for developers and contractors to do what they want with no regards to the taxpayers of Volusia. 
 
We are entitled to live peacefully and not endure 15 hours a day, 365 days a year with heavy construction. I understand construction workers need to work, but I do think you could compromise the  hours that allow them to work, but offset hours to satisfy people who live near these sites. Please consider what I have said today. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Jacqueline (Name).  
 
SPEAKER: 
I want to give you a heart of the issue. They were retired here from… We have been here for a year and 1/2. And in a year and 1/2, we have had construction in place. When we bought our property, our house was on a street where there were five houses. That is what we were told we would have on the street. We were thrilled. We knew that was fun to be construction abound. That is OK. People have the right to live. We then endured. Now we found out today, that another hundred and 60 houses beyond our street, and extending our street. And there is no egress except by our street. In this whole development there is only one way in and one way out. 
 
So, I live on a street with five houses, with construction vehicles going by all the time. Not right now, they have been sent… They are in a transition stage of building, they have two of the land developments. But now they are going to start the building. And we have endured the development stage now for (indiscernible). I keep thinking well, we did not know this was even going to happen. We did not even the people building. But we enjoyed. And now, we are finding out we have to endure not only longer but even more. 
 
And I think of my neighbour who had a little baby, who was a year and 1/2 old and she is going to have another baby. And I agree with you xactly. What about us? We retired here to have a peaceful community. And you are telling us it will only last for a short time. It has been a year and 1/2 and they have not even started this new development. 
 
So while you were given the statistics, I want you to know the heart of the people that you represent. It is not just for two months at a time. It can extend a very long time. And we are talking about one development, and I do not know if you have noticed or not, because even driving around Daytona Beach, there is construction going on everywhere. So you may be hearing from me but you're also our constituents and all of these other areas, and somebody else is going to repeat you. 
 
You know when you run for election, very few people want to talk to you face-to-face. But there are thousands behind you and I am one of those thousand. And you are going to have more. Thank you. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Thank you. John Nicholson, Baker Hughes Company. Please note that I get up at 5 AM so this doesn't bother me, but don't bother 5000 other people in Jakarta. Those people that have already purchased and only had (indiscernible) built in unincorporated Volusia County, they are a small number but it is a number that will be in Volusia County eventually. The few thousand people who are not here now will be here and will have to go through all of this. Most people are up by seven. In the past, those with children. We have to get them up, out, and to school. So 7 o'clock was not a problem. 6 AM is a problem. 
 
The other day, might never have, he who comes in all the time, they are often two weeks. So he fought he would come in at 5 o'clock and the reasonable control in. That bothers me. And I know the woman on the other side has children, and it bothered her. The unintended consequences. 
 
Where I live, I am a block and 1/2 away from the bars and I know exactly when 3 o'clock used to be. The Cardinals, the kids shouted, the same thing happens with construction; they are talking, they are cursing, swearing, all of the things that normal people do in construction sites. Do you want that at 6 AM? My answer is no.  
 
The unintended consequences. 9 PM at night, I have no problem with it. There is almost nobody except me innocuously on the clock. (Indiscernible) generally I (indiscernible) so I do not care about nine. It is the mortgage. And also especially care about Sunday morning. I know it is not as (indiscernible) as it used to be, but it is the concept. That we have a day of rest, I know it is beautiful, and we are not allowed to talk about that anymore, whatever you want to call it, but we do need a day of rest whether you call it (indiscernible) or sociologically or whatever. We need that time. So to push that up, that is a quality-of-life issue. The absolutely on Sunday 10 o'clock is the cutoff. So I am asking you to look at this very carefully before we change our quality of life. Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
(unknown name) 
 
SPEAKER: 
Hello again. (unknown name), Daytona Beach Florida. I work in Tanish and start at 7 AM, period. That is to protect the workers and neighbours. I do not want to see any workers being misused and working too long. They have families as well. You need to know that. 
 
I do not have a problem with (indiscernible). I am also in supervising. So supervisors usually have to get to work early anyway. Unless you have got a construction site (indiscernible). 
 
The larger project, especially (indiscernible), between context trucks, concrete trucks that show up anytime you want. That is what they do. And we cannot stop running that truck. Some, they like to see about five or 10 of them, (indiscernible) it is a tall building like I used to build and they do start with all four in the morning. And they will probably just pay the fine. (indiscernible) on a slab that is six stories of land, 12 stories of the ground, they are going to be running the truck. 
 
You cannot stop them, how are you going to stop him? The taxman once that building built. So there are so many elevations there. Plus, I wouldn't work on Sundays as a worker. I want to be at home. Because my house needs a lot of maintenance as well. So I would not even want to work on Sunday at all. So if you are out there working on the construction site and your boss wanted to work there, you cannot take care of your house. Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
(Indiscernible) the motion is new hours if operation will be from 6 AM to 9 PM, Monday through Sunday all year long. 
 
KARISSA GREEN: 
Mr Santiago, Mr Dempsey, Mr Johansson… 
 
(Roll Call) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Motion carried five to two. 
 
Item 12, resolution finding public purpose and approving issuance of Housing Finance Authority of Volusia County. Heather Wallace. 
 
HEATHER WALLACE: 
Proponent you have back from the Housing Finance Authority operations County to (indiscernible) on family project, the band lacking apartments and the (indiscernible) senior living apartments. These bonds did not constitute a debt or a liability of the county. 
 
You have counsel from the Houston transit Authority here as well at one of the developers of projects, if you have any questions. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Comments, council? Is there a motion? 
 
JACK JOHANNSON: 
I motion. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
I second. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Any discussion? All in favour say I. Any opposed? There was no public that wanted to speak. So all done. 
 
KARISSA GREEN: 
Mr Brower, I do want to note that Mr San Diego is out of the room. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
6-1. Thank you. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Chairman, just to clarify to get (indiscernible). 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Item 13, affordable housing incentives, strategies report. We should have had to go first thing.  
 
CARMEN HALL:  
Good afternoon Chairman, members of Council, this item is acceptance and adoption (indiscernible) a certain spot for support. This is a requirement of ship funding and must be completed and 11. All of the adopted strategies are included in our local housing assistance plan. 
 
So as you probably are aware, many of the recommended strategies were included in (indiscernible) what was in reference to the comprehensive plan for a housing policy, which table and they. 
 
Therefore, staff is recommending an acceptance of the important (indiscernible) and continued adoption of strategies ACE, CIG, (indiscernible) last year. There will be no changes to the current local housing. (indiscernible) recommend any changes to staff will review and work with the advisory committee and ensure alignment at that time. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Thank you. Any questions and counsel? Is there a motion? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Motion to approve. The: a second. 
 
SPEAKER: 
We have a motion to approve by Jack Johansson and a second on Matt Reinhardt. Any discussion? Any discussion? All in favour say I. Any opposed? Motion carried 720. 
 
Mr Santiago, you had all of the discussion (indiscernible). (indiscernible). Contract with Ajax building Company LLC for provisional construction management and general contracting services for the branch (indiscernible) mental health dormitory apartment. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Mr Chairman, I want to know what Matt about this. 
 
(Laughter) 
 
MATT REINHART: 
All year. The: I am sorry, I just pulled a… 
 
SPEAKER: 
This afternoon Mr chair, Council members and staff. This is for the award to a mechanical for the replacement of (indiscernible)., To 410 (indiscernible) approximately 24 years old. (indiscernible) Elizabeth under budget, so we are asking for (indiscernible). 
 
SPEAKER: 
I see his hand. Thank you. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
A motion to approve. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Second. 
 
SPEAKER: 
We have a motion and a second. Questions? Any discussion? All in favor of the new chillers, say Aye. Any opposed? And that carries 7-0. That was 6 to 0 with one out of the room. 
 
Item 15. Contract with Ajax Building Company for professional construction management and general contracting services. That was a yes on item 14 for Vice Chair Robins. That makes it 7-0. Tadd? 
 
TADD KASBEER: 
This is a contract with Ajax Building Company for the construction of the Mental Health Dormitory's at the Branch Jail for a maximum price of $8,184,062. This will add a single dormitory building with two sections in it, each totaling 66 beds. This will be the first expansion to the building since it was originally built. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you. Councilman Reinhart? 
 
MATT REINHART: 
Motion to approve with the comment. Just a little bit historical on this. Danny is laughing. He knows I was going to. 
 
We have always struggled with mental health housing at both facilities over the years. We placed inmates at various different locations and we have always wanted to do this step down process for years because there was no place to put them. This accommodates that. 
 
And the design of this dormitory from what I saw is far better. Nothing against what they had done before but it accommodated the type of housing that we have. But this type of housing is definitely needed for our mental health inmates. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you. We have a motion to approve. Do we have a second? Second by Vice Chair Robins. The motion to approve was by Matt Reinhart. Any other questions for staff? Any discussion? 
 
All in favor of the amount for the Ajax Building Company dormitory construction, say Aye? Any opposed? In the motion carries unanimous, 7-0. 
 
And that brings us to item 16. The County Attorney and County Manager Annual Performance Evaluation. Mr Brown? 
 
SPEAKER: 
These were submitted by Council members and I gave you each her own packets. For the Manager and the County Attorney. If you wanted to hand those out to your fellow councilmembers. I think that was asked of us to prepare (Muffled audio). 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
What process are we going to follow, Mr Chair? 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
We will go by the lineup today for anybody that wants to speak publicly about the County Attorney and County Manager. And make your comments then. 
 
That put you first. If you want to start. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
It will be really simple. Thank you Mr Chair. I want to do both comments in the same, if you don't mind because my feelings and my experiences that I've had since I've been here are equal to both of the officers that we have. 
 
And I will preface this: in my time in local, state, and local Government, the overall expense that I have had with your teams, your leadership teams, certainly both of you have been exemplary. 
 
I've been very impressed with the talent that you will have that work and report to you. I see many of the top leaders you have sitting here in the front rows. And I have a lot of respect for all of them. Every time I have inquired about something or needed additional assistance, it's been immediately resolved or addressed. To whatever satisfaction at the time. 
 
Sbars individually, the two of you, the same applies. Anytime I have interacted with the legal department, even some of your reports, it has been great. I have no issues. Mike has been good and he has set the county on good legal grant. You have lot of legal successes and wins and I think the residents of Lucius are in great hands under your leadership. 
 
I did like a few weeks ago when you came out a little bit. I probably maybe request a little bit more intervals of that. I certainly will never be offended if you chime in and give us your legal expertise. For you to chime in, even if we are doing wrong, I have no offense to that. We can certainly all discussed that. I will never take that to you not doing your job. 
 
To the contrary, I think you would doing it more. I think the residents of Volusia are well served by you. 
 
George, same thing. You certainly chime in more frequently and anytime I have asked you for anything it has been good. I think you defend the county on a good professional basis when it comes to policy issues and interacting with other local governments. And with your leadership there, I'm confident that I have nothing to worry about when you're there representing the Council. 
 
I think you balance the individual Council members needs and issues, and wants very well amongst probably close to a dozen city or county managers that I've dealt with, you are up there and probably one of the best. I put two up there. You and one other person. Thank you for your leadership there. And that's it. I look forward to see other comments and how we close out the year with any potential merit increases for two officers. Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
You're welcome. Don Dempsey. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
I will start with George Recktenwald. I have known you for probably 30 years and when I knew him from 30 years ago, he was a standup guy. I have a hell of a lot of respect for him. We used to know each other socially and as I got more and more into property development, if I had an issue with the property, George was always accessible and quick to give me good advice. He was always very helpful. 
 
I've known him not only as a councilman, but also as a citizen who is involved in real estate and development. He's always been accessible and helpful. I have nothing bad to say about George. 
 
As far as Mike goes, I've been an attorney for 33 years and I've had other attorneys working for me in the past, so I know he has his hands full being the Chief counsel for the County. 
 
I practice in a different area and he's in the Government area but I've never found - I've done my own research on my issues and I've always been his advice to be good. I've never known him to do anything that was even remotely tainted or slighted. I think his analysis of the law is very unbiased, and honest and truthful, good advice. 
 
I kind of wish he would give us more direction and more emphasis on which way he really thinks we should go on certain issues because I think Mike just gives us stuff on a truly neutral form and sometimes he should have some control. I know that's a problem for me sometimes in telling my clients on how they should handle their cases but they don't always listen. I know that they can be a challenge sometimes and following his advice. 
 
But I am very satisfied with both George and Mike. And I'm fully satisfied with their service. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Jake Johansson. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Thank you chairman. I wanted to do them together but I should probably split them up. Starting with our attorney, I gave you my written response and we will talk in detail during our one-on-one but I have been very pleased with the legal guidance you have given us. Your staff, I'm on two committees with you, or at least one and I appreciate your willingness to hear everybody out. 
 
You talk about client control, Don. For kind of keeping neutral in those situations and allowing us to make a decision, and I appreciate also here at counsel when you make sure we are square on the law. And as I wrote in my written evaluation, I know for staff and for your staff, it's hard. It's hard to gauge where we are in the strategy. It's a new elected body and we are kind of trying to get comfortable on where we are and what direction we are going, so I appreciate that you are not getting frustrated. 
 
I see eye rolls in public. They might happen in private but I appreciate your willingness to adopt to us as a new elected body. 
 
Same with George. Your staff and I think I wrote on yours that you have some traits I wish I had. I'm learning from you every day as well. And to keep striving toward, one thing kind of being in shoe similar to yours is, you never know what's going to come up and be the big issue, until it is. 
 
It could be something like garbage cans at 6 o'clock in the morning. It could be some of the issues that have come to the forefront. "I never thought in a million years that would have got us." So I appreciate your ability to be proactive when you can and try to gauge what of that is going to come to the forefront. 
 
And when you kind of miss it, when it kind of creeps up, you are quick to get on top of it. I do appreciate that. And I asked you to work with staff to continue to try to re-us and feel free to ask me questions and go, "where exactly are you on this?" As far as I am concerned, I extremely clear on where I'm going. 
 
But as my wife and friends are saying, I'm not always as clear. Help me help you and we will move forward. I will be speaking to you a while more as well. And I will add something that somebody brought to my attention. 
 
I frequently say in public that if you want something done, don't give it to the Government. George, I want you to know that is not meant to say that our portion of Government doesn't do a good job at what they do. The point is that there are so many Government regulations and stipulations on how we spend a dollar that it gets hard to spend that dollar sometimes. But I'm very appreciative of all your work your staff and you guys are doing. Thank you very much for a great year. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Kent. 
 
TROY KENT: 
Thank you chairman. I will pass up my evaluations to them. Mr Dempsey, if you can give one to the clerk. If you could just pass it down to Suzanne so that they can have it there as well. This first evaluation is for our attorney Michael Dyer. 
 
I was hopeful - I will do this separately because I think they deserve it. I was hopeful that when we received our material that all of us would have given our ratings to our attorney and Manager, so that we could have looked at everybody's ahead of time and we wouldn't take all this time right now. It would have made it a little more streamlined. 
 
If you don't like this instrument, let's come up with something for next year but I think we need an instrument. I'm pleased that we have on this year because when I inquired a couple months ago, we were all told we don't have one. It's really just satisfactory and unsatisfactory. I think it's unfair to our residents and this counsel, who deserve to see what we think about the job that you are doing. That being said...  
 
Mr Dyer, just for those listening online, the scale is 1 to 5. One being unsatisfactory, three is meets expectations and five is outstanding. 
 
When it comes to legal expertise I would give you a fine. Problem-solving and decision-making I would give you a 4.5. I only like to think of all possible outcomes in certain situations require a quicker decision. For management of the department I give you five. The amount of work your office handles is incredible. You do a fantastic job keeping everything a thought. 
 
Your management of litigation claims, I give you a five. This is why I would publicly call you Mike that 1000 Dyer. Let's try to keep that record. For management style and give you a 4.5. Some decisions call for a quick decision though. Interaction with the county manager, and if you're in for. You exceed expectations in this area. When you actually accept the Council's direction we will make positive impact for our veterans. 
 
For your relationship with the Council I give you a fine. This is another area where you shine. I find you always professional and In all of your interaction. But community ethics and (indiscernible) regular 4.5. Maybe next year. Community relations and ethics. Ethics you are a solid five. You are an honest, hard-working statute. 
 
Community relations I have a solid form. We need to work as partners. Communications I give you five. You are an excellent communicator. Intergovernmental relations I give you a full. You exceed expectations that you will be more successful as a County community if we want to have a common goal. 
 
Mike, I believe we are fortunate to have you as our Attorney. You're a homegrown hard worker who only want what is best for the county. I personally would like to see you open yourself up to the public twice thank you for a question and answer session that lacks one hour. This will allow access to you by our residence and allow you to showcase the tremendous what you want your office to everything. 
 
Next is our County Director. Again, this is on the same scale. One is unsatisfactory, cumins improvement free, dictations, four, exceeds expectations, five is outstanding. It skills I have to hunt for. Decision-making investment I have it three. Coordination I have four. Community organization, I have you at three. Legislative, I have you at four. I think I have 4.5. Financial management, have to at five. Financial reporting I have to at five. Financial control I have to at five. Interactive skills, interpersonal relationships, I have four. Community relations I have to action. Communication skills, section 3, the Council, I have you had to. Class, I have it for. Access, I have you at four. Activities, I have three. 
 
And I am not reading the success it would take too long, that this is a public record now. Staff, I have you at four. Residents, business and the general public I have to add four. Section 4, administrative skills and traits, job knowledge I have you at five. Coordination I have good for. Creativity, 4.5. Planning and organization, five. Personnel management, five. Motivation and leadership, for. Operational activity, for, honesty, integrity and ethical standards, actually. Adaptability, for. 
 
Last section, administrative skills District, initiative four. Resilience 4.5. Ethical standards, for. My comments, George, I think you have done a good job as our County manager in our first year working together. Council goals need to be a priority every January. Update given often on our progress. As a councilmember I should not be learning about events that look negatively towards our County from the media. I should receive because I am not part of God about what is taking place in Albuquerque? Any other comments? 
 
I would like you to be more open to meeting with residents and community groups, holding quarterly or guy and you will be texts in public has more access to your development for Loudoun County. Overall comments, I know you have a tough, demanding job. The fact that in all departments is very beneficial to you and to the company. If my mathematics is correct, and I will check, my waiting for Michael Boston average of 4.64 and my average figure is 4.04. I think it is pretty close. Thank you very much. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
Thank you. Mine will be brief. I have it written down and I will capture a little bit of what I said. Our County manager. When I first came on counsel, did everybody there were certain projects I wanted to complete. Mine was obviously with DMA farm. But when I sat down and talk to you George, with respect to our staffing, you open your eyes to a lot of things that it would probably not be able to do right now. 
 
So, you were open to other ideas that we had. And, I came up with some other ideas, which we ourselves implemented. And it was water, when we have a state legislator, escaping, (indiscernible) came to town, I. Maybe asking for the allocations for the specific project with respect to man. To assist with cleaning up our water and the waterways, as well as growing CEO for the purpose of the investigation. 
 
George fought outside of the box. Knowing that we can obviously seek those allegations, and it could be approved by the state legislator, the company could always veto it, he always looks outside that to me. So he came up with another way of doing it, and we told our staff to go ahead and seek that. That grant process, and hopefully it will come to fruition. 
 
So I appreciate the fact that you think outside of the box like that. I have been delinquent job for a number of years, he was in charge of (indiscernible) at the time. When I was working as a lieutenant in charge of compliance for the roommates. Some inmates went out to that a lot of times and we had some issues. We had some bumps in the world that he was quick to fix them. And unfortunately that program kind of downsized over the years. I would like to see a return as I think you would as well. Maybe that is something we can implement. 
 
One more important thing, having our coastal communities in our district, there was a lot of emphasis on the areas that need assistance, especially those in lower income areas. And I remember being out with my wife, long before 386 even talked about, I got a phone call and it was George and he was telling me about the possibility of finding that may come along and be able to assist with that. Knowing that that was the one to be an important matter to me because I had put it up from the one. So I appreciate that. And that she included me when it came time to accept that money, and making me a part of that. 
 
The residence in my area saw that. And I want to thank him for that. And I know I am kind of silent on a couple of specific issues but I think that is my assessment overall, of George. So, no, I did not (indiscernible). I have been doing evaluations for years. And I also saw the process, the way it was done in-house impact and I was OK with that. 
 
I also love the way that he interacts with the staff. You never see that when he makes a decision that they question it, and he hasn't brought some phenomenal phenomenal people on board. And four of them are sitting right there in front of me on that hammer. So happy birthday, either way. 
 
So, I appreciate everything that you have done. So I am very happy and content. Thank you for his leadership and the fact that he helped me as a councilmen, and a learning that process even though I have, like you said, don't withdraw it for a number of years. 
 
Moving onto our County Attorney, first and foremost I think I am the only one that gets your job. I am not sure. I do not know what that says about me. 
 
So, I have never had to question as to experience and professionalism of you. Not being as inexperienced as county government as some of my colleagues, during the short tenure he has made that process a lot easier for me. He is always accessible, and that is important for a council member, much so within your councilmember. 
 
I have been known to (indiscernible) by an issue and he is either reached out to me I have reached out to him, even on weekends or holidays, I think I once contacted him when I did not know he was on vacation and he answered my question. He returned my call. 
 
What he has done, again, maybe point out a couple of instances where it is reminiscent of his performance, the Medicaid contribution litigation. How he was able to get that money for us. The numerous property damage lawsuits were filed, that we had to file with respect to county property and he was successful in retrieving some of that money back. Successful litigation with respect to civil rights claims that S. McCarty. 
 
Speaking with respect to ordinances, when I am actively different alternatives to be passed, and thank you to the Council for that, it is him or his staff are able to organize them in a first. With respect to the distance that I have received much of the dune replenishment in place was blind and had to reliant on society. It was his office that was able to have that document put together in a timely fashion because you under a template. 
 
There are so many other projects and legal things that he is doing that would take hours to discuss. Things like annexation, applications, I wish he would do something with the dogs barking in the background, I apologize. Provisions made for the legal guidance and advisory board, contract development and but much more. 
 
In my previous career in protections, we had to become very familiar with the legal department. We see this today, Mike and his team's commitment to a safer, more effective county government, to me, absolutely goes beyond measure. That is all. Thank you. 
 
SPEAKER: 
You chairman. I will try to make this short and sweet. Too much on point. Got to remember that our County staff, and I will talk to guys here, County manager and County Attorney, (indiscernible) for the Council, there are times when government is going in circles. Those two guys are able to keep us on a straight path and keep us going in the right direction. So I really appreciate that. 
 
One thing I have learned since they wanted that everyone had been accessible. And that courtesy extends out to the staff and I really appreciate that. That is a great reflection on leadership as far as I am concerned. 
 
You are both competent and realistic. You have to remember that these guys, as much as we think they do and the public does, they do not have crystal balls. So, I trust the judgement. And then legal advice has always been on point. I cannot say that or stress that enough. But most of all, they have the experience to navigate any issues that are in our team, that both of these gentlemen have been able to navigate. And they have the experience to get us through any issues that we have, in front of us, or that we encounter. 
 
One thing that I have learned over the years, is to appreciate policy and procedure. And one thing that I would like to see going forward you know, our charter is a very powerful tool and text, to protect the citizens and it protects the way that we do business and it keeps the things going. One thing that I would like, and I have talked to people individually at times, about exercising some of that when it comes to noninterference by counsel, some of the stuff that we face and some of these issues are day-to-day operations and I respect and support the chapter entitled areas. 
 
At times, I was that there would be a little bit more chutzpah energy depending some of the policies and procedures. And I am aware that some of the things that go sideways. In those instances we have your back. And we have the back of the citizens of the county. Some, I appreciate you guys, and, I look forward to the future. Thank you.  
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
I have used a written format for three years and because I'm used to it and spent six years as executive recruiter, helping companies find people and help them keep good people. One of the things I learned is that you praise in public and you criticize in private. 
 
And I think that's good advice. And I've also asked our County Manager and County Attorney, that even though it doesn't go both ways in this format of Government, they don't evaluate us and we are elected. But I asked both of them anyway to criticize me, for the purpose of doing a better job and growing in this position. 
 
What we all do up here with them, is extremely important. We represent 550 some thousand growing all the time. 
 
George Recktenwald runs a Fortune 500 company with about the same amount of employees, a huge budget. I think last year George, somewhere in my comments I said that you were my friend. We are not really friends and the reason for that is because neither one of us gets to spend time with each other outside of this office. I think one time in three years, my wife and I went out to dinner with you and your wife. It's interesting to see how a man treats his wife. 
 
You have a great relationship with your wife. And in those three years, even though we don't socialize - I don't even know, somebody tells me that you run in different circles. I don't think you have different circles because you don't have time to form one (Laughs). 
 
I can say that because I have talked to you and Mr Dyer, as a matter of fact. I will email at midnight and I will put on it that this is for Monday or tomorrow. And I get a call back or an email back. You keep long hours. 
 
I gave you a really good evaluation. I didn't say you were perfect in everything because I want you to keep growing and thriving. In the preceding week, I know I did, and I'm assuming every Council member got letters from the public requesting that we bring up a vote of no-confidence for you and Mr Dyer. 
 
As I read a few of those, most of those were just, "we don't like them. Call for their heads." A couple of them went into detail and I really appreciated that. I read the detail about you Mr Dyer, or George Recktenwald. Was it almost everything that they were concerned about, and they were good concerns, had to come from the Council. And we would have had to give you direction to do that. 
 
And it's really the same for Mike Dyer and he has pointed out to me with things that I have said to him. You could make a motion to that effect at any time. He cannot. 
 
So while it was encouraging to me to see that the public is paying attention and wants to see things change, I think sometimes the blame is misplaced. And that blame should have rested on the seven people here. We give you direction and then you carry out the direction. That's your job and that's our job. 
 
My evaluation of you was based on that and there are things that I have not agreed with. There are issues that you and I have had but what we do, I go to your office and sometimes you walked into my office and say, "there's something we need to discuss." That's how we resolve, I don't even know if I want to call them conflicts, but things that we see differently or disagree on. 
 
Every time I have done that, I have come away feeling like - not only like I was hurt but there was action taken, that I agree was the best possible action. I'm not can ask for a vote of no-confidence from you but I will tell you in public, that I have a lot of confidence in what you do and the way that you go about doing it. Especially, as I see you dealing with these people on the first two rows here, that the way that you treat them and the confidence that you put in them, helps them to do their job really well. 
 
And you have hired, well mostly really good people. Ben, you are getting a little old because every two weeks it seems you have another birthday it seems like. 
 
The people that you have surrounded yourself with, including the woman that sits next to you, they are pretty... They make me glad to be here. When I look at these phases it gives me confidence that you can conduct your job. Did we get everything right? No. And when we don't we go back and evaluate and see how we can do it better. 
 
Like I said, I do a written evaluation. The reason I do that is because I will use it to come and talk with you more. I have notes on it on things we need to discuss and the same for Mr Dyer. I think that's the best way to use it. It's public information now but I don't make it public at this point because there still things that we need to discuss. 
 
Michael Dyer. I could repeat this. I think I see you more in the office then I see George, even. Almost on a daily basis, you walk down to tell me something because there's so much going on legally in the county. I think that you are a brilliant attorney. 
 
You know my criticism because we are different people. We have different roles. I want to act aggressively and boldly and you want to act boldly within the law. And keep us from bringing on unnecessary lawsuits. 
 
We've had some pretty pointed discussions about that in the last two months. And I appreciate that. And I appreciate your candor and I appreciate the fact that we both agree that this will continue. But it doesn't make me doubt your ability, your knowledge of the law and your ability to apply it correctly. 
 
As a matter of fact, you have changed my mind on some things and the way to approach something and I appreciate that. I can read the social media reports tomorrow because I read them today and they said to standby for 5 o'clock. We are way ahead of time. For the lovefest for the County Manager and the County Attorney. 
 
You could say that this is what you heard today but what you really heard was things that the public right as and telling us to fire these men, don't know because they don't work with them. They don't see them under the stress that we do. And now has an understanding of how they work. 
 
I don't want their job. I don't know if I want your jobs out there. But that's the reason you hear the confidence and the appreciation from this counsel. Because we do get to see them frequently and in a working environment and under that stress. 
 
So, I will end up on you, Mike Dyer. I will end up by saying thank you for the conversations we have had since the last Council Meeting and going into that, as we have dealt with some rather difficult issues and issues that are really important to the public. 
 
What the public doesn't always know is that you cannot come out here and tell us everything that's happening or we would not be successful in some of the things that we try. But what I know is that you do have a strategy and we talked about it very plainly and you shared with me what you thought the strategy was. I would share what mine was. 
 
And not only you, Mike, but Paolo, every attorney on your staff I think I have dealt with. Anytime I have asked - we've got one coming up next week for discussion that I will have with constituent groups, you will send the attorney that deals in that area, who has that area of expertise. I never wanted for information and for guidance in a conversation like that. 
 
Do I have confidence in you? I do. I have absolute confidence in you and I look forward to working with you and George both in the next year. 
 
Troy Kent is up. He might want to correct me. 
 
TROY KENT: 
No, chairman. I just have a couple of brief comments I would like to share. Mike, I mentioned that you have a team of 11 but George I didn't talk of your team of over 2500. I think that's important and I just want to tell that I had a very healthy conversation with a constituent of mine that lives in Ormond by the sea. 
 
One of the things that we talked about. George doesn't make the sausage, he cooks it and it was absolutely spot on. Sometimes it's a little bit well done or underdone, but I think most of the time you do get it right. 
 
So the other thing is, I wanted to thank all the members for your comments. I don't have a photographic memory, so unfortunately I can't remember everything that some of you said. For those that did the printed evaluation, I want to thank you because I was able to look at it today right now. 
 
And Mr Johansson, I really want to call you out on this because there are two things you said and when I read them I was like, "I could not have said it any better." That's exactly how I feel. 
 
And the first one is for Mr Recktenwald. When you write this Mr Johansson, not only do we get to look at it, but George and Mike get it. Our residents get to pull it up. The departments get a look and see. 
 
Jake, I thought this was spot on for George Recktenwald: continue to work on gauging counsel direction and ensuring staff grasp that strategic direction. Government staff is willing to wait out elected officials and stick to their own staff agenda. The culture should be, how do we get to yes, not just say no. (Reads) 
 
I could not have said it better and I love that it's printed and they have that. I think I know George well enough that this is going to be in his head when he puts his head down on his pillow. He respects our at-large appointee and I just wanted to thank you for that. 
 
And then the comment you wrote to Mike Dyer: ensure you keep the mindset of working toward yes, not know. We work for the public. Not to keep taxes low but to provide efficient and effective Government within the confines of the law. At the end of the day, we remind ourselves that our boss is the public, not the vocal minority or one particular person. 
 
I hope you don't mind me calling you out but I'm sitting here and looking at all of the comments. I've got yours and the chairman's. And those comments jumped out at me, Mr Johansson, as I could've written that exact same thing because George and Mike, I feel that sentiment and I think we are better whenever we change that mindset. Because I felt like that and I truly felt like a couple of ideas that I had. 
 
And I agree with you chairman, publicly applaud and privately criticize. Not some of my best moments losing my mind on a few things that I thought the staff were waiting out. No you are not because I will lose my mind behind closed doors about, what do you mean on the day before the vote, that the feds are weighing in on something? 
 
And then Suzanne will tell you: I said tell us we are voting on it tomorrow so they will answer us today. My point is, spot on, Jake. And thank you for sharing those comments. And I think some of the other ones were spot on but I don't have that photographic memory. And that brings updated Santiago. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Mr Chairman, I learned that what we did in our budget process for our employees, that is on the merit increase, I think we should treat part two Constitutional officers, that is what they are called, the same. And I move that we give them the same rate will give employees, 5% each on their salaries. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Motion on the floor for a 5% pay increase for the county manager and the county attorney. Motion by David Santiago, seconded by Tony Robbins. For discussion, Troy. 
 
TROY KENT: 
Just for clarification, you can all respond to this, is that the amount we gave our general employees? 5%? You're shaking your head yes, for those of you online listening. I will tell you, I can go along with that because that is what we gave our general employees. I could not give them any more, and I think that there is a compression issue. Make no mistake, I think that they have a fairly decent salary. It is a lot of money. 
 
And it is a lot of work that they do. It is a lot of work. So, because of that, Mr Santiago, I can go ahead and go along with that today. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I forgot the birthday cake for Ben… 
 
SPEAKER: 
I just want to clarify to the Council, in years past traditionally it has been made retroactive. All you can do it affective today. I just want to make sure it is part of the motion, how we want to do it. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Retroactive from when? 
 
SPEAKER: 
September 30. Or you can make it effective today. 
 
SPEAKER: 
That the chief financial officer not want to proceed with the vote? 
 
SPEAKER: 
He is just pointing out that our contract says that if you give me one, it is effectively the first or the 31st, whatever day it is for the general employees. 
 
SPEAKER: 
We should do both of them in the same way. I will command my motion to make the effective date the same as general employees. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK. Amended by the same two people. Does everybody understand where we are? OK. I do not know if I need to call a roll call. Don Dempsey, before I asked for the vote?  
 
DON DEMPSKY: 
I just want to say that it is a lot of money. They are paid quite nicely. I have got to say that at some point we have got to cap it. I think last year it was a 4% increase. At some point, I think it should be a cap. I will tell you in the future, I have got three more years, I guess we are with each other for that time, I would be more content with the more substantial places if we could cut the budget. 
 
We have got 25,000 employers and I cannot micromanage it. (Iindiscernible) and stuff like that. But it would be a lot easier to do a raise next year, it is possible to get that 1.2 billion down to 1.1 billion, and even 1 billion, if we can somehow, next time, I am going to be looking for performance-based, before I could go along with another raise just because I would like to see Me. 
 
I would like to see more rates being made on projects. I mean, some of the things seem pretty high for me. I would like to see more rates come back and I would like to see a lower total budget next year. You are worth way more than you are getting now. I am OK with this because I am very impressed with your book. What you have done in the past year. I think you are worth it. But next year that is what I am going to be looking for. To see where we can really tighten the belt. Whatever. I think that in more performance face-to-face with the letter. 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
Is that part of the 100 million? 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
(Laughs) Whatever. I know it is a lot to ask, but I think that some point I would like to see some of that as well. Because it is good business. You have to admit. You guys make a very handsome salary. Maybe more than the judgement. For it is a handsome salary. But Mike has given us good advice and he is a great lawyer. I would just like to see the budget come down next year. If we can do it. Part everything 9% across the board. I think it could be done. And I would really like to emphasize that next year. But again, all praises to you and your staff. But this year's performance. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Johansson. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
I would like to comment on that but this is probably not the right time, were talking about his evaluation. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
You brought that, I will make a comment about that. I actually brought that up with… I do not know if you were interviewed by Herb in January goalsetting meeting. One of the things that I told him that I wanted to do was, that we had to reduce the amount outstanding. And look at creative ways to do that. 
 
I think I gave him the figure of 5%. I like where you are going with that. I think I am going to turn you in it. And changing the way that I was going to vote. And, the vote to give them a raise or not to give them a race, in my mind, if not really a reflection of what I think of them and the job that they are doing because we have already said what the job is that they are doing. 
 
But as we look around the county, and we see so many people struggling right now, and hatching, and they are going into Christmas and wondering how they are going to buy Christmas present… And then they look at not only their salary, but other people in this room. So a lot of them think that we get paid too much. 
 
I… If you just look at that, this is not the right time to give anybody a names, that makes over $100,000 a year. But I do not think that that is fair to them. So I like telling that to performance. And for me, performance, one of the biggest victims we have to look at in order to save our residents of money is how much money we spend here. 
 
In January we will start a whole new budget season and we will spend the year going through that and I will report his hair. So, I concur with what you were saying. And I think that is a good way to approach it. Jake, did you change your mind? 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
I sure did. So, here we are at the end of the year. This is our lack the budget decision for 2024. We have spent $100,000 on this project. We have spent 300, $400,000 on that project. We have decided as a council to spend money for the intelligent here, and I know a couple has been keeping track of that for next year. 
 
And then we are going to put the onus on the shoulders of the County manager to tell us how to save money, after we have been spending it all year long. Getting them to think that we want it. I want this, or $1000, I would like this for my district, $200,000. We have got to figure out a way to save money. We are the ones who tells them how to save money. Do not find that, I do not find that, I do not want this, do not find that part, do not know that lawn… 
 
I have be there. You cannot look at the county manager and tell them to cut the budget by 10%. Because he will. And you will say not that, not that! So between that, and the majority of the budget, or a ton of it, (indiscernible) personnel, we can cut that as well. Next thing you know you are going to be on social media for defunding the police and the fire department. We tried to save money here or there, and I wrote it on the… On George's think there, we want to be efficient, I will get you an efficient government. It will be efficient. I can get this project down to a couple million. 
 
But there are a lot of things that will not happen in this county, that people will come out of the woodwork to try to support. So, I think we can help George and staff by telling them what we are not open to fund. When we start getting our budget briefs, when? February, March? February. So we will just say "Hey buddy, there are a couple of things on this list that I cannot get jiggy with this year." We have to get down to the facts and look at the budget to help him. Because at the end of the year next year he is not going to be able to say that he save money, because a county manager can only trim so much in tax, and it is going to be negligible. 
 
So, I caution that we do not blame the entire onus on his shoulders to come up with that money. Because they will start cutting corners and the next thing we know, we are going to have problems that we did not expect. Because they are aiming to save your money, not run an effective government. So we just have to be careful about that. That is all I am going to say. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Thank you a lot. Why do I always do that to you? Mr Kent? (Laughs) 
 
TROY KENT: 
Yesou. Thank you. I want to talk again. Thank you. But you know, just a couple of thoughts on what Mr Dempsey said and what Mr Johansson said. You know Mike, to me you have two jobs. Number one, protect the county. And tight with number one is protected. Jordan, you have one drop. Do everything right in this county. And they are both next to impossible. Because we are human and not others that everything right. 
 
But Jake, you are again in my opinion without it percent right. On this issue. We direct staff. And if we want to cut 5% or 9% out of the budget, we had better be prepared to, and tell the speakers… Because we talked about it with a couple of things. And some of the speakers came here and on some of the things we back up and said we were glad you came and we heard from you and we are going to go ahead and give you the funding.  
 
We talked about changing it in the future but when you start talking about cutting five or 9% out of the budget, our job, the government's job, people want fake streets, they want votes to try on that are good, safe approach to drive on. And then they want recognition. 
 
So what are we going to do? Tell our community we are going to let the grass grow to 2.5 feet before the cottage just to say budget? We are going to cut recreation? Not on my watch. It wildly inappropriate. That is not what the public wants. So if we are going to say that we better come prepared to have a plan in place about what we are willing to cut and lead the charge with. 
 
So when I came to you with asking people to drive on the beach without any extra charge I had a plan in place to correct the funding that would be lost. So we need solutions to the problems wherever they come up. 
 
As far as a raincoat, I agree with you. Both of you make very handsome salaries. But they both have incredibly difficult jobs, that I do not want. And by the way, most people I spoke to do not want your jobs. So when you start looking at a Fortune 500 company, you look at your salaries and it is not outrageous.  
 
And, when you start looking at other counties of similar size salaries are not outrageous. We are talking about a one-time salary adjustment to get you caught up to where they are. 
 
The reason I am OK with this is because we get this exactly to our general employees. We can even talk about compression, when that starts happening. You could say… You are going to get a 1% raise or you are going to get a 2% raise. You could give general employees a 5% raise, but we give you a 20% raise, absolutely not. 
 
I think this is the line. I think this is appropriate. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Danny Robins. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Saving money can also equal losing money. That burden falls on us. Many elected officials — and hear me out on this — that wants to shift the burden or politically sidestep it, it is shameful in putting that on another person. We control it, that is our baby. 
 
And I have been hearing it for a long time. I am not going to -- it is my obligation to say something. Our job, and there has been many times that I know I have called, "What is your policy change?" And there has been a reason for that because it is rhetoric. 
 
We control it, they executed. That is our job and they know their job and they do a damn good job. Let us not shift the blame here, let us keep perspective. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you, Jake. I think you have hit a homerun here. Everybody is tending to agree with you here. 
 
Let me -- I breezed through quite quick because I want to talk about this at our goal setting session in January. One of the things that I ask for was that we set priorities so that the public knows we think priorities are for our county for public safety on down. 
 
Then we look at spending. Then we ask the County Manager to go to his Staff and say, "A budget that is 5% less, 3%. Whatever it is." 
 
… And in the previous one, I suggested we make cuts, but I was told that that was not the council's job, that was staff job. We need to know that it is both of our jobs. If we say to the staff, "Bring a budget that is 5% left." And then they bring it, it is going to be hard for them to do. 
 
Then, it is on us to say that we will accept it and, this one we won't.… Big headed to 15% and bring it to us and then we have to make the hard decisions of which we actually caught. 
 
In February, we hear from every department. We hear their challenges and their needs and then we have to make the decisions. But that discussion I was trying to put off until February. 
 
Last thing, we have talked in here about whether we give taxpayer money to nonprofits. Nonprofits raise money from the public. They say they are not getting -- the public is not giving the donations they need. Maybe that is because they see government giving the nonprofits and they say, "Well, I do not need to because they are doing it for us." 
 
I think we need to be consistent for that. To flush that out, what is our policy for nonprofits? There are decisions ahead that we have to make. But, I think this counsel is up to it and I think we will do it. Don Dempsey. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
Holy mackerel! 
 
(Laughter) 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
MI bleeding here or what? I think I took a couple on the chin. Did everybody understand me? I am saying, let's go with the 5% raise. The troubles we have had in the past, this is my first foray in this position, so I am learning. 
 
Some issues have come up that I have pointed out in the meetings that we are only getting one bid. I am not necessarily saying cut the programs, get rid of this get rid of that, I am not saying that. I am saying let's be wiser in how we spend money for those programs. 
 
When we have these housing reverbs coming up where we are going to spend $150,000 to refurbish a $175,000 house, I have a problem with that.… That should be vetted before it hits the agenda. That's all I am saying.… George, I am saying you are doing a great job. You are managing (unknown term) number of people, that is a huge task. 
 
I would like to see more bidding going on in some of these. I think we just did one with the Person Recreation, the lawn and maintenance. I thought that was successful because we had so many bidders. 
 
Some of these projects, and I think we were getting high bids, which could be a product of not getting high enough bidders. I don't know if it is frustration in doing work with the county, I'm not sure. But let's keep this as clean as you possibly can. Kudos to that. But I am also saying I would like to see some streamlining, if at all possible. 
 
… The ways to get this accomplished, we are going out of our ways to get 2 million for this and 2 million for that. Are we making sure that we are doing a competitive bid process? If so many out there for 7 million instead of 8 million? I don't know.… To that extent, so that is a general request, I am not trying to shame you and say that you have not been doing that! 
 
Please, do not take offense to that. If we get to $1.2 million, then great. As far as Mike goes, I am just saying you make more than a (unknown term) judge. Judges do not make what you are making. 
 
You are doing a wonderful job and I think it is a shame that Counsel does not always give your good advice. Because you do give good advice, and we don't always take it. It is frustrating for me to sit and watch. 
 
But, performance and payment, we have 50 C a judges, who are not making what you are making. And there is a government, and you are paid handsomely and you are worth it. Please do not take anything I am saying is a slight to other of you because I have respect for both of you. 
 
I am just saying let's make sure that government is working. Government (indiscernible) should not be making the same as a CEO of a Fortune 500 company. That is what private sector is all about. (Indiscernible) that is the way it is intended. I think that is why our president makes what is it? I think there needs to be caps and I think somewhere we need to be cognizant of that. That is all I am saying. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
I am not sure that anybody misunderstood you. David Santiago. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I follow you well.… 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
A few members want to speak to this before we vote. Chris, I thought there were three of them? I am finding 2, Bob Williams and John Nicholson? Does anybody want to speak up on this issue? 
 
SPEAKER: 
(Indiscernible) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Bob Williams. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Thank you, I appreciate the opportunity to appear for you again. Not only am I speaking to you as a private citizen, but as the chairman of the (Indiscernible) economic (indiscernible) and… Economic development strategic plan that we have been working on for three years. The plan has also been accepted by all three cities. 
 
I want to be clear that the success at this critical and initial stage of building consensus and establishing this plan would not have been possible without the outstanding collaboration and leadership of our County Manager, George Recktenwald and the Team he has brought together. 
 
He has been instrumental in establishing the establishment of a framework for us to ensure value added, higher-paying jobs in our community, expanding our commercial property tax base to reduce the burdens on local citizens, ensuring the continued growth of our wealth and resilient economic future, and improving the overall quality of life for all. 
 
The professionalism and high level of (indiscernible) that he consistently exhibits has been a driving force to everyone who works on the team. This is just one of the (indiscernible) of his excellent leadership. 
 
I will also speak to you with respect as my (indiscernible) at my local church that is honesty, sincerity, compassion for serving our community is inspiring. 
 
More than anything else, George is proven that he is someone that can be trusted. 
 
Even in difficult situations, if he has to tell us something we would prefer not to hear, due to the necessities balancing all of the priorities of the county, he consistently takes time to explain the situation and to continue to work in a collaborative fashion to see if we can find other solutions. 
 
Furthermore, he models this leadership with the impressive team he has put together so that these values can be seen throughout the county's Staff. 
 
Please accept my heartfelt thanks in helping us be the best County that we can be. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
John Nicholson. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I noticed you guys see I said in the same place all the time. And, I know you have noticed twice now I have come to the podium, and people thought that all of you were for the fuel farm. I couldn't understand it. 
 
… They perceived it differently. Word spread that you are all going to vote for the fuel farm. (Indiscernible) today, we had the same thing. Jeff (?) made something like a similar, that they wanted George fire.… There is nothing there to fire George for. I have not seen anything like we went through with (Unknown name). That was observable. So why are people saying that? 
 
… Michael, five, five, four, 415, five, five. Then George came up and it was three, two, three, four. What? I couldn't understand it. He went through it and I still couldn't understand it. 
 
When the public hears this, alright, they are saying there is something out. I have known George for years now. I have no problem. The old White House… Flophouse and they converted it to a year-round hotel. I went to the open house and I parked on Glenview next to the bathroom. When I stepped out of the car, the weeds were up to my waist. 
 
There was a mattress, grocery carts, things all over everywhere. It was neglected. And I explained over a phone call. Why?… From the seawall to the water and from the inside of the building only, there was no request for care outside of the building, which is why it was overgrown. Sure enough, it got cleaned up. My perception is 5.0, 5.0. The public is hearing and I understand but the public is not hearing and only hears what he wants to hear. To me, I sit here often enough to know what is going on and I think both of them 5.0 for the public, not both hundred 27,000 but for most of us it is 5 and 5. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
We talked about this for a long time, I didn't write down who made the motion. David Santiago made the motion for five percentage... 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
5% and same as the rest of the employees got theirs. 
 
KARISSA GREEN: 
And (Name) seconded the motion. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
All in favor say aye, any opposed? The motion carries 7 to 0. You don't have to accept, you could donate that to the County Counsel. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Who is buying lunch tomorrow? 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Item 17, we have two more items at large appointment to the southeast Volusia advertising authority. Jake Johansson. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
I would like to nominate Mike (Name) to the SEVAA. He was on the advertising authority before and came off, sad to see Tom Clapsaddle go but he can't do it anymore so Mike's is our new nominee. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Second. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
We have a nomination of Mike Harmon and second by Jake Johansson, second by David Santiago and all in favor say aye, motion carried 7 to 0 and we have a motion carried to the ENRAC and you went to the report and I will nominate again Suzanne Scheiber. 
 
SPEAKER: 
(Indiscernible) 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I have a question and comment. Council members as I read the agenda item not particular to the person but more of the committee, I wonder if this committee is worthy of continued existence. If you recall, we voted on the issue about a month or two ago and the direction was to staff and I don't know if there is any need for this to continue. The staff time and other costs associated with keeping a committee open that may not be necessary which I am of the opinion that it is not necessary anymore. 
 
I would be considering to see what the consensus is to eliminate the committee, I think we have too many. If it is not necessary I would like to hear what you would all think. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
In my opinion it is very important committee that actually does a lot of hard work. We have, I don't know if we have their staff advisor here. I don't know if you would like to speak to it or Clay. This is one of our more active besides PLC RD one of the most active committees we have. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
The question is more pointed from the perspective of what was the intent of the committee and did we execute some of the things we were asked to. Maybe we should decide whether it is worthy to continue. 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
It was created by the Council in 2022, the growth and resource management division or department to provided a presentation on the functions operation because there was a question by one of the former council members as to how our standards ranked in regards to strictness and ability to address some of the concerns being voiced by the public with environmental impacts.  
 
As such the committee was created such that there are 14 members and each member of the Council gets two appointments and we were given a very set level of topic to discuss (Indiscernible) from the tree reservation standards, wetland standards, the number one priority was low impact development because that was something we received a grant for. We are still proceeding through based on the direction we received in 2022. That is really what we are doing. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
As a follow-up? I think you said councilmember became, it was created based on the councilmembers comments saying how our standards rank? Was that accomplished? Did we do that, how the standards rank and I think you also put the topics to discuss. Have those topics been discussed? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
We have not touched all of them, really just gotten through a couple items so far. Primarily we touched on pre--- tree visitation and we did complete the load impact development but there is still a litany of other things that are required. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Those things required of the list was made by the committee itself? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
It was part of our presentation to the council that identified it from a staff perspective different elements that counsel asked us to focus on so we brought it forward to them as part of the discussion so the Council could make the determination. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I will leave at this, look to see how my colleagues feel but I am of the opinion that we have what we need. I think we fulfilled what a specific counsel, I don't know who asked for it, that person is not here, the body is not here anymore. If someone can direct me, I am assuming. I think the Council has long discussed as being in a group here, how do we eliminate redtape and reduce the size of government and bureaucracy. I would like to see a focus more on citizen advocacy and working with staff to eliminate waste and redtape. I will leave it there. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
That is exactly what the committee is, it is citizens advocacy that deal with some of the most important issues that face our county, the way we develop, flooding, can a homeowner cut down a tree or not? How developers have to interact with the various and numerous requirements that we have? They are going through each one of those to make recommendations to us. Those recommendations could be and have been in some cases ways to eliminate requirements. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I haven't seen that. I am looking for that. The reports I've seen so far that came to the committee is more government. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK, well, I would disagree, I think the reports they bring forth for the requirements, is less government and in some regards and developers and environmentalists actually working together, talking together and coming up with things that both sides agreed with to make our county a better place to live. So, Ginger argues the advisor, the staff member on the committee? Can you tell us what you have left? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Ginger Adair, the counselor originally asked the committee to look at this list of things. Updates to the tree preservation standards, creation of low impact of element standards, updates and revisions to the wetland protection standards, creation of habitat protection standards. Updates and revision to the Indian River Lagoon overlay standards and creation of standards to adapt to sea level rise and promote resilience. 
 
They actually meet tomorrow and one thing is to create a report of the work they did over the last year. That would come to the Council and set their goals for the coming year. We have looked at three reservation, we have looked at wetlands and they have made recommendations to the Council on low impact development. The only recommendations that have come forth that are those low impact element standards.  
 
We cut off some of the other discussion to be really timely on the low impact development staff to match with the grant we had. And they are still in the process of looking at the wetland standards. Basically we are looking at the environmental minimum standards in chapter 50 authorized by the charter and then if the committee thinks those standards are protective enough or, and then looking at the implementing ordinance in chapter 72. 
 
Some things they have talked about maybe more effective and some things may be how to be more streamlined and efficient and those recommendations would come to the Council for discussion. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you. Vice Chair Robins? 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
You're hitting the nail on the head in your gut is right. I was here when it was created and you know, since inception this has been a citizen advocacy to make more recommendations and impose them on citizens, let's be honest that is what it is. Ms Adair said it all. Nothing in it, creation of, creation of, creation of. All of us appear in the agenda that this council as a whole, most of the time, Mr Chairman this is nothing but more, more, more. Voted to keep low impact development down. That is the only thing we have addressed here at the Council. Pretty much leave it the way it is. 
 
There has not been one suggestion to illuminate anything. You can take that to the bank, that is the truth. Anything other than that is just false. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
That is actually not true, I didn't see your name Mr Santiago but in the requirements there have been compromises in things that give a developer more leeway in how they can develop a property. There was a give and take. This is a really bad idea to get rid of this. This is one thing that our voting public looks at and has their greatest level of concern about. Development patterns, flooding, how as this County grows, as the estate grows, how it affects the water supply and so, if ENRAC doesn't do this, and so you know, I didn't suggest the committee. It wasn't brought into being because, if my memory serves me correct it was Ben Johnson who suggested this committee. 
 
I had some of your misgivings at the time but I actually go to this meeting. Not every time but to listen in and it amazes me. It is one of the things that Volusia County needs the most, is for people to sit down, look at each other in the eyes, people that come from different perspectives and actually come to conclusions by compromise and hashing things out again, from the developers to the engineers, to the attorneys. Environmentalist, people from Stetson University. It is a committee that worked really well together for the benefit of Volusia County. I think it is a horrible idea if we get rid of it now. Troy Kent? 
 
TROY KENT: 
Thank you Chairman, I appreciate that this is brought up. You know, you may say if not now when would you but today we were supposed to appoint someone for the chairs appointment to this. I think we as a council probably should have a healthy discussion on all of our advisory boards. It is something we should look up because I for one was shocked when I saw how many we have and what we spent. It has been a year and we are trying to fill positions on all of the advisory boards. This is month 12 that the seven of us have worked together. And we are still doing it. 
 
So, I think that is a discussion we need to have and the answer may be we keep all of them. It may be we actually think we need to add a couple but the answer could be, we need to remove some and I think that could be a real possibility as far as, we will get to the appointment in a moment. As far as this one the environmental and national -- natural resource committee. I can say a large percentage of my constituent base, some of their top concerns our environment and how we take care of natural resources.  
 
With the springs, the ocean, our beaches, our parks, this is something that is very near and dear. Let's not make a decision on the fly today, let's sit down and… Do our homework and have staff layout the numbers for us. How successful are they? Then we can make the decision. 
 
But, as far as today but I think you are waiting on a second for that, and I will go ahead and be that second. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Matt Reinhart? 
 
MATT REINHART: 
Thank you, Chair. It was brought before, a couple of times from different councilmembers about consistency, about voting on items that were not on the agenda, and I could not agree more that this needs to be something that needs to be agendaed. 
 
I have heard both sides, not just from this council but for other people, about this particular committee, and I think I appointed one not. 
 
Anyway, I just think that this is something, let all the players come to the table. I can see all of the galleon there only a portion and it doesn't look like there are very many people. I think that this is something that we need more, thank you very much Mr Ken. This means we put on the agenda. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Yes there is a procedure and a way to do it. I would like to make an appointment to specifically this put on the next available agenda and we can go from there. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK, first we have to deal with the appointment that we have, the appointment of Susan Schreiner. My appointment, seconded by Troy Kent. 
 
We will need to deal with at first. You will have to vote my appointment down, and if that is what you intend to do, then you can go ahead with your motion. Even Santiago. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Thank you Mr Chair. You know… I don't think I should put motion in play… And maybe I should've waited until after the post that we had. 
 
Troy, I get where you are going. It'd also, and I may quote this wrong but that is why it is always so dangerous creating a government program, right? Because then you can never get rid of it? 
 
And while that sounds so nice like this what does, somebody says, "You just got rid of the environment committee!…" And that is why we get paid the big bucks, to make these tough decisions. 
 
I just want to say that I like your idea about looking at all of them, because the first thing I noticed when I got on the County Council is wow, look at all these Boards. And are they necessary? 
 
I appreciate everybody's civil commitment, wanting to serve, but when we look at the costs associated with everyone in the net benefit to citizens, then at this point, the reason I brought this Board, I do not know if this Board has value for us aside from our in-house professionals. 
 
That is the only reason I brought it up. And, if we have the expertise, let's utilize what we have. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you. I would like about on my appointment. Everybody else has had appointments, previous counsel, some this counsel, Suzanne Scheiber for the ENRAC committee, and then if it at a future meeting we decide that this is one that gets cut, if any of them does, then that's what we can deal with them. 
 
Right now, this is where we are. If there is no other discussion than we have a motion from Chair Brower for Suzanne Scheiber and seconded by Troy Kent. Carissa, can you call role? 
 
KARISSA GREEN: 
(Roll Call)… Mr Reiner? 
 
MATT REINHART: 
No. 
 
KARISSA GREEN: 
(Roll Call) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
The motion passes 4 to 3. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
With that's it, Mr Chair, I would like to put on the agenda that for the first quarter of next year we put on the agenda for the staff to put something together for us to review all Committee Boards. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Motion by David Santiago as the first quarter two put under review every Board. Seconded by Troy Kent. Jake Johansson. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
George, if you could ask Cruz or somebody, I know all the information is (indiscernible) readily available, and we had our recommendations on the list.… I know which ones are here. Can we have that for casual Christmas reading (Laughs) if they can just pull it together and send it out? 
 
Then, maybe I will make a recommendation. Maybe we look at all Boards at once but let's do a deep dive on one per, 2 per. So that we are not looking at all of them in one section. Or, have a special meeting about it. We are looking at about 20 here. 
 
I know that should be easy to just pull up, and if you can do that that would be great. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
(Indiscernible) Michael Dyer. 
 
MICHAEL G DYER: 
Yes, just as a follow-up, based on recent counsel direction we are going to (indiscernible) on the possibility of replacing your cohort (indiscernible). 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK. The boat on this is for the first quarter to review -- begin the process of reviewing committees and staff, you will recommend to us what are the first – how many boards are there? You just said 30. Jake, did you count them? There isn't much. 
 
MICHAEL G DYER: 
29. But, that also includes boards such as the advertising one. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
There are some we cannot get rid of, right? Alright, 20 are ours to (indiscernible). 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Can you divide them for us? I don't want to spend the whole year, but over three or four meetings? Jake, would you concur with that? Any suggestions? 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Sure. Sure, some of them, which is the 20 minutes on ENRAC, so there are some that will create some insurance. (Laughs) leave it to George to put them together. 
 
I think some we have discussed. Maybe the library board? (?) And some of the boards, so maybe we can exclude those two women. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I would put ENRAC as one of the early ones. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
I would, too. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Got it? All in favor say aye, any opposed? The process is approved, 7 to 0. 
 
Public participation, we have to John Nicholson. 
 
JOHN NICHOLSON: 
… On the last item number 10, what I want to say is I think 12 (indiscernible) is really large. It is three times the size that is required on the (unknown term). Often the sea will at the top is only 11 inches. So what do you do, add to the seawall? I just think it is awkward. It is scarce. 
 
When you are looking to upgrade, you do not want to degraded in other areas. 
 
With regard to water, I think water is as important as 30 years ago when we went with environmental bordered on the center of our county. People opposed it then, people didn't think it was important. It turned out to be extremely important. 
 
So, I think water should be discussed, especially in the Atlantic Ocean. How it is coming down the pike. I remember what it was like the BN to be (?) we had certain ordinances in place and we had to avoid much of the damage because we had previously acknowledged ordinances. 
 
Secondly, I want to inform you about the (indiscernible), I go to many of their meetings.… ISB has been planned for. There are plans for everything north of LPGA, of the northernmost quarter. We are going into the (unknown term), we are going into 10 years. 
 
It is a madhouse. People who drive out there understand what a madhouse it is. On (unknown term) Farms Road, or on the (indiscernible) so let's plan that in advance. With regards to canning a sex comments, their trees and their ability to soak up water. 
 
We have a lot of problems on the east side of the county but also on the website. These trees soak up 50,000 gallons, excuse me 40,000 gallons of water per tree. If you plan enough of those it will commiserate (?) on what she is talking about. 
 
Lastly, the county has property on Beach Street. The city is doing some things. There is a building going in not too far from there. I ask you to get moving the courthouse there… And if you condos facing the river, use that property and sell it.… Then put a garage in the center. If we put seven buildings on that property, it will be a great boon to the area and I think all of the economy will handle it is my. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Pamela Walker? She must have… OK. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I would like to thank you for what I had, for last time,… I have been removed to Daytona.… This man who is abusing me. I called the police and they say… 
 
I would like you to all make a report to them, so something can be done. I am a former nurse and have worked with corrections, I've never seen some disrespect to officers. 
 
They always say it is civil, but having somebody get killed is not going to be civil. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you. 
 
Mr County Manager? 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
Thank you, I would like to thank everyone for your evaluation. I definitely take the areas where I need to improve, seriously. I will make sure that I get with all of you and we will talk one-on-one. That way I can better understand exactly where in those areas, and put things in place to definitely show improvement. 
 
But, I would also be remiss if I didn't also think the team, unfortunately they are out of here but I know they are not far, but I has as you have said a great Team. It is probably one of my proudest accomplishments. It really is the people I have here, in my leadership positions, and actually all the way through down the organization. 
 
I am proud to be the quarterback on what I feel is the best team out there. So, I do appreciate that, with working with you. 
 
I have some good news, things you are talking about are already in motion. Today, for instance, there was a decision made when you guys went with the step down dorm that was $8 million? But really that was for two dorms which would've been $16 million. 
 
We pulled back and we figured how to work with one of the dorms. Because we are hearing you, and what he said. We are hearing you on construction pricing so if things are not ideal right now, or if I think they are out of line, we will be pulling back. I appreciate, again, your leadership. I need that. Because we are a team, as well. The implementation team.... I appreciate your leadership and that really helps keep the ball moving in the right direction.  
 
A couple of other things, I wanted to touch on. First, we got some news today the Department of Housing and urban development approved our action plan today. That means in May 18 of this year, we will have almost 330 million, $328,910 allocated to Volusia County for homeowners to have repairs in the flood areas. We will be working on the infrastructure for local governments and nonprofits right here in the first quarter of 2024. So good news is there. 
 
Other news, I know I have talked to all of you about this but it is important we say something publicly. I will put out to everybody that we did receive an application for a conceptual site plan for the proposed and I think they are calling it a truck terminal at 874 Hall Road that we received late yesterday. So, they were notified immediately that the county cannot accept the process of conceptual site plan due to the pending doctrine that is in place based on your direction at a previous meeting.  
 
I want to let everyone know that we will put it on our website and all the information regarding this. I wanted to make sure everyone knew that was there. We are still working and were contacted by Belvedere with inquiries about possible alternate sites up and down the rail line from Southern Flagler County so letting you know that they are following through with at least their interest as well. They said they would take a parallel track. 
 
And then the last thing, I just wanted to say that this is our last meeting before Christmas so normally we move closer to Christmas and it's a little farther away but I want to thank everybody for all their hard work and especially ask everyone to remember, I have 2500 people out there and literally a huge portion of that will be working on Christmas and New Year's because a lot of them are safety employees. So everything from utility plant workers to make sure you still have water and your sewer operates on Christmas day all the way through of course, EMS, fire, corrections, beach safety.  
 
It is a tremendous amount of people who will also be working right through those holidays. We are out there all the time and I always like to remember that. While I'm drinking and eggnog on Christmas day. That's all I have. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Michael Dyer. 
 
MICHAEL G DYER: 
Thank you and thank you for evaluation and your feedback and I am open to talk to any of you one-on-one to talk about that further. I appreciate your role as elected officials and also respect that I am not one. So, I am not a policymaker and take direction.  
 
I think that is a theme that has been very important to our team because we have a job to do and trust is a big part of that. And so, as well as talent and getting a team together and I think we have a good team. So, thank you for that and for your time. One of the things that I had shared with you recently is some changes involving career source flag for Volusia with regards to career source Brevard County. So we have received a proposal and local agreement amendment because right now you have no local agreement with Flagler County to designate career source Flagler and Volusia to be your (Indiscernible). Ryan and Laura have been working with Flagler County and staff of each career source on some issues that the Florida Department of Commerce have identified. 
 
The first one we will bring back to you shortly is the career source board based on direction from the Department of Commerce which has indoors having career source Brevard be the physical agent for career source Volusia and Flagler. We need to bring forward to you a local agreement amendment and will provide more information at the time. Again, I want to thank the team I work with. 
 
There is no shortage of new issues. I remember someone I used to work with here at the County said "you really deal with issues A-Z" and I remember that we had someone leave the office and needed someone to do animal control cases. 
 
I said it should only be a couple of months and will get someone to place you in it ended up being six years doing animal control. But in working with the citizen boards, learn more about the functioning of the local government, what is working and what is not working and interacting with citizens in the process. 

I think I have a great team that is committed to doing a good job and very appreciative of all their efforts. Thank you and have a good Christmas and happy Hanukkah, happy holidays. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
David Santiago. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
A couple of things, I think if staff can address, the focus of that spoke about the road issues today, can you address whether that was a private? public road? Can you give us an update on that if you know anything? 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
It was a fully private road. What we do have out there for many years there were no signs or anything because they were private roads. Through the years, we have had a program to have signs for our 911 responses. So that is what they have.  
 
If you notice, most of the street signs are green with white letters, the 911 roads like that are white with green letters and a circle with a 911 on there. That is what they are referring to. It gives them still the ability for people when they are looking, they can find the streets and it's a program that predates large use of GPS, which all of our vehicles have today. 
 
When there is a hurricane or a problem, maybe a storm or something and it creates a big hole in a washout and people cannot get out on one of those roads, we will do the one time fix or repair to a level that satisfies both our fire department and our road and bridge. They work together so it doesn't get out of control. 
 
I've asked that it be at a battalion chief level that works with the road and bridge people to say, "This is what I need to actually get down that road." So, we have already, there has been communication with the Fire Chief and public works director today and we will make sure where we are at with the project or this particular road or any others. Again, those are private. There are also public, non-maintained and similar situations. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I want to make sure I'm not advocating for you to spend tax dollars to maintain a private road because they can't have their cake and eat it as well. The moment the general public was down there they say it is a private road and you can't go down here. 
 
I feel for them and if there is anything, in my opinion, in our normal process of doing for almost anyone, I would expect that to happen but outside of that, they can have their cake and eat it too. Anyone can comment on that afterwards. 
 
Another thing to bring up, I forgot we spoke about it today, I don't know if we have any development standards. As developments come in, commercial and mostly virtual or public spaces, that we may or should have bike parking spaces. Someone mentioned it earlier today and I don't remember who it was. 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
They mentioned bike racks at a bus stop. I took note of that and I will say also that our buses, you can bring your bike and put it on the front of the bus as well. So there is an option to take the bike with you. 
 
I did make note that maybe in certain areas it would be proper to have some racks put in. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I want to be a bike friendly county whether it's a public or commercial project. It is not that big an expense. Needs to be able to park his bike out there. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
I don't really write anything without a motor, two stroke. They have a bike share program down south and to get the vehicles off the congested (Away from mic) I don't know if you get the bikes back but it is worth a shot. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
The other thing, beach. You brought up the beach stuff again and I will say for me, as we get ready for the budget cycle, bring it back and let's have the discussion, I am open to it. I think it was mentioned three times since that vote. You get back. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I don't know if I can, I think you have to bring it back. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I'm willing to hear it out again. I will tell you (Laughs) Troy, sorry, the reason I mention it is because we have talked about budget cycle, if we will cut and what programs we will do. We will have to get very creative, that's the only way it will work. I was listening to the conversation dealing with our charter officers about budget stuff and we got to start now. There are areas that we may want to look into but we've got to start now and figure out how to we in some cases, plug some of the holes. That might be a mechanism to plug holes, I am open to it so you know. 10 million bucks... 
 
SPEAKER: 
We tried to attack it in a consolidated approach with the toll on the beach but we found further review, that it was better to break them because you would get two different types of plans. That is coming back to you with, so you will be seeing that and it will be a revenue generator. We had other issues if you recall, little curveballs that come in like the enforcement in parking and stuff we had to work out or are working out because that is, we don't have the ability. Any more. So we are working with the sheriff and others on that.  
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
… I think we did a fairly decent job. We gave Volusia County citizen some relief in some areas. But there are other opportunities. I look forward to that. Just creative things, because just because we have done something for 50 years doesn't mean we have to continue that way. 
 
I don't have it, but this body with this dialogue, I think we can do it. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Merry Christmas, everyone. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
I just want to follow-up because this is the last meeting of the year. I want to follow up with staff. 
 
When I first got elected I was very distrustful of government and staff. I had always been told that staff was (indiscernible) with government. I was told by people who don't trust for Councilman who said, "Don, don't trust your staff." And I have been very non-trusting. 
 
But this is been a huge learning process for me and I have learned to trust Staff. There very informed and informative, if I ask questions about any area they are going to give me details. And, well-informed, good information. 
 
Whenever I want to run something about my district I will ask the staff member. It is always so impressive about the subject matter they have their dealing with. So, I have grown to really respect staff. I understand why former counsel people have told me to trust out. I really do. 
 
I can understand where people can come from, but these guys are really good. They are awesome. I want everybody to be clear on that. As far as the legal stuff, you have done a great job with everybody.… Subconsciously critiquing their advice, sometimes, but I have always wanted to be really good. 
 
My hope would be, with all of these issues coming up, the Council would be amenable to taking legal counsel's advice because I think what you tell us is very good legal advice. I hope that next year we can learn to be more/better clients of yours. 
 
Again, I want to make clear that is clear to George and Mike, the comment I made about salaries is not worth your performance at all. I mean, I just had to say (Laughs). Please don't ever take a pay increase personally, because I think you are the best at what you do. I mean, I just think that at some point it reaches the pinnacle of your job title. 
 
So, please don't ever take what is personal. It is that we can hopefully cut fat in the future, specifically more to open competition for the bidding process and really what I was talking about. Not so much for the programs, but this $330 million waiting for (unknown term), I don't think we should be quick to pass out the cash. 
 
If it is only one bidder, let's not just give it up to that bidder. I would like to see more competition. 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
Previous to that, Suzanne herself attended the (unknown term) Association herself to help us drum up. We are getting a lot more interest now in those projects. Which is also probably assigned a shift going on in the market, as well. 
 
So, you're going to see a lot more interest. I agree with you, we will let competition drive the pricing. That is important. We are looking at that and out, beating the bushes to make sure we have that competition. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
I think that is it, Merry Christmas to everybody. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Johansson. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
I have a few comments. There was staff that left after the connotations, but what remains. George, with your permission I would like to invite somebody out here with what is going on with (indiscernible) and what we have given them, what we have not, and where we are going. 
 
Any other great tidbits, Iris? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Something told me that somebody was going to get me up here. Good afternoon everybody. Happy to tell you about what is going on with (Away from mic). 
 
You may have heard that the Wilmington service is has been paused. They paused that service beginning in January through March. The reason why' is taking place: Othello is a fledgling airline. They have 16 aircraft, and with that the federal administration needs many checks every so often. 
 
Mr Dempsey, you are familiar: (indiscernible) Graham so much, you have to take it out from your IAs, etc.… They will be taking those aircraft down to the rivets and putting them back together. 
 
With that, the supply chain has been affecting them greatly.… Next-generation aircraft, those aircraft are put on the market and Avello will take those aircraft and put them in their system. 
 
So, as the manufacturers are having supply chain issues, the larger airlines are not giving of their airplanes. Avello plan to have more aircraft complete. There is (indiscernible), and our market has been doing extremely well, in terms of modes (?). 
 
As soon as we have that back, a return will be doing well. I want to give you some numbers. I would say that the rising tide, in this situation, lifts all boats. 
 
You look at the sales were concessions, and this is how you can generate whether an airline is doing a good job in terms of startup service. This is for the first quarter they operated. You are looking at what we did in gross sales for concessions: news and gift, food and beverage, parking and revenues. 
 
Look at the comparisons between 22 and 23. You look at the net to airport, what we are receiving from our concessionaires. Our concessionaires grossed almost $1 million from the service they have added. And that to the airport is $243,000. 
 
So, if we move on, going down into the details on what we gave Avelo during its first quarter, you are looking at the total of 12,600 passengers that flew on the flight with the average ticket prices, which initially is a concern of mine. With that being a fledgling airline they are trying to create a market and they have introductory fares. 
 
Those introductory fares allow the community and consumer to get familiar with the airline. Unfortunately, what happens is when you get to into an agreement such as ours, they need support with that particular fare. Conversely, we need to -- support in terms of ensuring we are a household name as well. 
 
Avelo is not a household name, nor is Daytona Beach international Airport.… We ended up spending $226,000 out of the revenue guarantee but, when you take into account the airport revenues from concessions and also be airport passenger facility charges to use for our capital improvement programs, we had a net revenue to the airport $50,000. Very successful for the first few months of a low-cost carrier being in the market. 
 
The other thing you may have heard is that this airline started at Melbourne during the same time period that they started at Daytona Beach. And they are no longer operating. That proves that our market is well, our market stronger than theirs. 
 
I cannot speak in what tactics they used in order to support or subsidize the service there, but the service we put in play, as well as our marketing practices have been effective here. 
 
So… (Reads) Then we take Present out of that number for people that may have flown down and went to neighboring counties. The average for a visit or the state here with 60s. In the average spending (unknown term) per day. 
 
Italy average that through, the average amount is $2.4 million. Of course we have sales tax and that goes over with that tax at our sister division at the ocean center, and also are restaurants, retail, and other transportation services. 
 
So, $2.4 million in the first three months of service with the $226,000 investment. That is the ROI in the service, in my opinion. 
 
So, Avelo had to put a lot of skin in the game as well. The cost to operate aircraft, they have a formula that they use. Of course there is fuel, there is labor. Those are the two largest expenses when it comes to operating an airline. Very cost-intensive industry. 
 
I joked before that the quickest way to start out as a millionaire is to started as a billionaire, when you get into the airline industry. Often that is the case, but here Avelo has invested (unknown term) million dollars in order to operate at the new Daytona Beach international Airport, and our (indiscernible) is to present that. 
 
When we talk about the co-promotional arrangement that we have? They are actually contributing more and conversely we are getting back $2.4 million… As a result. (Away from mic) 
 
So, one of the issues that I had with Avelo, and I have gone back and forth with the leadership team, was the fares. Without this going to come through with our annual revenue.… That we would return to some more sustainable fares. They have followed through on that. 
 
Looking at both markets: Wilmington, Delaware and New Haven, Connecticut, we have gone up during my. That does not include the baggage fees and the other fees. Mind you, with that they will still be cheaper than our legacy carriers at the airport. So it still offers you that low cost service opportunity but it allows us to now create more revenue-generating opportunities and increase our return on investment. 
 
The other thing that came out to, the eyes are now open into them being a competitor in the market. These (indiscernible) by 10%, and as a result I'm talking to mainline carriers, one of which is going to be visiting in February. It is poised to make an announcement to a very large market. This is a name brand. 
 
Another is scratching around because our neighboring airport to the southwest is having challenges with overcapacity so they are looking at diversifying and looking at other ways to capitalize on the central core market. Of course, I am taking advantage of that opportunity as well. 
 
I believe that is all my slides. I can answer questions.  
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
This is more of a statement. Thank you for the update, it is very good news. I know there was a lot of debate on the Council as to whether the strategy of getting involved in the incentives. I recall, my wife reminds well the time because she joked with me because she thinks I said if you're going to be in the airport business you need to be in the airport business and I'm glad to see that it's netting in return for the citizens of Volusia. That being said, we are in great hands with you. I feel good about you running with us. George, good choice. I would like to find in the budget cycle, how do we find ways to enhance what he is doing over there. Give him the tools that he needs, not that he doesn't have them but what can we do to continue to make this airport more and more successful. I think certain things will be talking budget wise that might be beneficial to what Cyrus wants to do their. I am looking forward to it. Thank you. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
I am curious, are we getting, I know you touched on it, are we getting other interest from major carriers? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Yes we are, I am excited about that. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
Do believe it was a result of this? 
 
SPEAKER: 
A lot of the result is a variety things happening. With the Speedway and the Daytona 500 being sold out this year, and the performance that Avella is showing, we will get New York, LaGuardia into the market in February and it's something we haven't had during my tenure. We are getting Detroit, Delta will operate both of those. Americans bringing back Dallas, Fort Worth. They are also bringing larger aircraft into Charlotte and they are returning Washington Reagan and it is going to operate from February through May if not longer and instead of it just being a Saturday only opportunity, it is a Saturday and Sunday opportunity. What they do is stick their toes in the market and see how good the water feels and the more comfortable they are with it, they will add a foot and then a leg and then they will dive in and be in the market for a longer term. 
 
As a result of what we have been doing, a lot of airports are realizing there is some capacity and people aren't necessarily driving down to the airport in the Southwest that shall not be named. 
 
Maybe there is an opportunity that we can make up our revenue that we normally would've had those passengers driving down. You are welcome. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I book all my flights with you, I have two flights coming up next month. 
 
SPEAKER: 
That's the only way we can sustain this. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
You and I have talked a lot about this and the feedback I've gotten from the public with the posted numbers, most people wanted to work. A few wanted to fail so they can say "I told you so." Most people are concerned, there is always risk with a brand-new airline and air travel is a risky business. 
 
SPEAKER: 
It is. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
We have relied on you and your expertise and you investigated it. I think all of us trusted your expertise. One thing I remember saying when it first came up was that this was a proof of concept. It was not to prove Avelo was a fantastic airline. I think they are serving us well but the proof was that Daytona can be a profitable market. 
 
You just said 500 sold out and I think we are proving that. And that is attracting other airlines and it is also as you know, I emailed you today, from a local businessman that travels all over the United States, he says I've got it charter... He flies a charter airline and they are looking for more locations and they want Daytona because they see what is happening here. 
 
You are making news around the country. That is what we needed to have done and had to go through the pain. Thank you for putting me on the statistics, on the money because most people, they look at those big numbers and they say, "Well this is pie in the sky." Now you have explained where it came from and I appreciate it and I think the public will appreciate it, keep doing a good job. Thank you. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Thank you so much. This actually just came into my inbox: I got a letter of affirmation from Avelo once again stating their commitment to our airport and reinforcing the fact that they are already selling tickets for their return from Wilmington March 7. And also, because of the races, they are contemplating once they get some aircraft out of the heavy maintenance detail potentially returning earlier than that. So I would be more than happy to send the email to each of you to kind of reconfirm the type of conversations that I have been having with the airline. Insisting on working with them. So we can be one of their stable markets in Florida of course, since it is so competitive. We will have these conversations, we are not going to offer MRG to any other airlines at this point but we will have these conversations with other airlines so they know how valuable of a market we can be for them as well. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I will be brief, if you follow Don Dempsey if you can increase the revenue you will get more than 5% next year. 
 
(Laughter) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
You were just getting started. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
I was but since everything was covered, I would like to say as we depart for the holidays and thank you George for cramming all this into one and Suzanne and Mike so that we can go on holiday early. I would like to give a shout out to a few people that I very much appreciated this year that have helped me out to become a better elected official. Everybody has. 
 
I was going to say Matt Reinhart but he is not here. But Jon Nicholson thank you very much. For your opinion throughout the year, I very much appreciate it. I know, you look at me like "what did I do wrong?" Thank you very much. 
 
George, I very much appreciate everybody on the staff however, Karissa, Jenna, Hazel, Carrie and Terry in the back bring hot coffee, good food, snacks that we like individually, put in the things and, not to mention, keeping me out of trouble with my schedule. 
 
I know you have a couple (Indiscernible) that do that for you and probably a bunch of other people and might you have a few folks on your staff but smiles all the time. I very much appreciate what they do for all of us. They juggle seven people, seven personalities and seven schedules and I know I am changing mine all the time. So, I very much appreciate them and I know they are in the back probably cleaning up our lunch mess. My hat is off to them and you telling or asking them to do it and whatever it takes to make them happy and if that is not what you tell them it is even better because I have been thoroughly impressed. 
 
For everybody here, left on Council and staff, have a great holiday whichever holiday you celebrate. Festivus, Hanukkah, Christmas and come back safe next year so we can buckle down, buckle up and do the right thing for our county. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Troy Kent. 
 
TROY KENT: 
Thank you chairman, first to Councilman Reinhart, I hope you feel better soon. You are missed in person today. And council and I'm speaking for myself on that one. The next quarterly meeting for district dialogue for residents will be on Monday January 22 from 5 to 6 PM at Michael Crotty Bicentennial Park. And Terry if you're listening I will get the schedule with you in the near future. At Bicentennial Park we just opened three pickleball courts so now you can play there as well. 
 
My next comment is to John Nicholson and I just wanted to publicly make you for coming before us this morning and sharing your comments about the news Journal story and your thoughts about the school board where I believe they were completely unprepared when they came before us on November 7. Thank you for that. 
 
And listen, I am not going to meet again until the new year so I will simply say, Merry Christmas, Happy Kwanzaa, Happy Hanukkah and Happy New Year. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Matt Reinhart. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
Thank you, Chair. We're in the mood to thanking everybody. First of all, John Bailey and his crew, the IT folks, we tried to work out all the kinks last night and they were here later than I really wanted them to be. Trying to fix this and we started first thing this morning. Thanks to all those guys. I very much appreciate it. 
 
I appreciate the fact you are patient with me with this. I usually don't get quite this set and try to fight it off and it just got the best of me. 
 
The first, and also in the line of thinking people, Hazel, Karissa, Carrie, Terry and all the ladies back there have My calendar going and we were able to rearrange things and push things back. Because of this so thank you for that. And, Troy Kent, that you are the only one that missed me, it makes me feel good. So, the first thing I want to talk about is unfortunately something unfortunate. 
 
It has come to my attention that my appointment to the animal control board, Ms Janine Colletti has been behaving in a manner that does not reflect the values of Volusia County and does not affect my values. Members of the animal control board serve at the pleasure of the County Counsel and any member of the animal control or maybe remove from office with or without cause by the County Counsel. I therefore would like to make a motion and I can go in and expand on this but I didn't think it was necessary. I would like to make a motion to dismiss Ms Jean Colletti from her appointed position from the animal control board effective immediately. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Is there a second? 
 
SPEAKER: 
I will second and I trust your judgment. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
If you'd like me to expand I certainly will. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
I don't think it is necessary. Let's vote on it. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
That was my point, we tried to reach out to her to see if she would step down and to no avail. My goal here is not to embarrass her or that kind of thing to anybody. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Let us go ahead and vote on that. You want to remove her and Dani has seconded. Is there any questions? All in favor say aye, any opposed? Carries 7 to 0. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
I would like to thank councils support of the ordinance requiring the property set about the Atlantic Ocean. It is something that was brought up like I said, during the comments at that part, from a city commissioner in Daytona. She wants to see it down there and she reached out.  
 
There was an emergency factor that was brought to my attention. I explained all this before so I won't rehash it. I still think it is an extremely valuable tool for the safety of residents and visitors alike one seconds or minutes matter. So, my thanks to everyone for that.  
 
There is something I want to talk about, something on social media that jump to my attention. I want to lean on Jake Johansson, because they have done the same thing in Port Orange at the same time. 
 
The City of Deltona has started something called a "do not not registry" following reports of door-to-door soliciting, residence of Daytona can ask to be on this list. I think they sticker the door. 
 
I've seen this work. A lot of (indiscernible) don't allow this,… People still come into the letter HOAs, and people even… Have a flight out where people come up to the door. He was on the flag and he walked away. We sought on the cameras. 
 
That doesn't work all the time. As you know, we live in a different climate than we did when we were younger. We could leave the doors open or the kids out playing at any hour, and we hear all the time in the media, unfortunately, of unfortunate events warehouse break-ins occur and you just do not feel essay. 
 
I want to be an advocate of that safety thing. I know the first thing encompass the unincorporated parts of Volusia County. But, it could be our shoreline thing, the other addresses will take notice of South Daytona. 
 
I will go back to Jake, Jake, did they -- I'm sorry, Councilman Johansson. Had they done that in Port Orange? 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Port Orange has procedures for obtaining a permit to canvas, solicit, and/or peddle. It is a citywide permit. I think it was instituted before I got there, but the reason was to stop roofers and unlicensed people, really, from soliciting after hurricanes for saying, "We are here to give you water." 
 
It is just no soliciting without a permit. It prevents a lot, but not everything. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
If I can interrupt here, Matt and Jake is it a good idea to caution that some things are protected? First Amendment? 
 
MATT REINHART: 
Yes, I was going to bring that up. Not (indiscernible) or religious solicitors are protected by the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution and are permitted to prone those activities from 7 AM to 10 AM (?) daily. Except on Sunday. They are very descriptive. 
 
We do not have to re-create the wheel, we just need to look at what other places are doing like an Port Orange. In a lot of ways, these prohibit even the soliciting by political canvassers, which actually can they cannot, in my opinion. It would be a question, probably, for legal. But if you had to explain that to somebody it probably wouldn't get their vote what my. 
 
That being said, it is just something for staff to bring back some more information on that. Again, we have a procedure and we can go into further discussion later. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Motion by Matt Reinhart, seconded by Vice Chair Robins. Question by David Santiago. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
That's just bringing back information, not an ordinance? 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
All those in favor, say, "Aye".? All those in favor, say, "Aye". Matt, your motion carries. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
Lastly I would like to do a special shadow to and high school in District 2, they will travel to the campus of Florida University to perform in the (unknown term) championships in San Augustine. 
 
Remember the championship fell short in place of whales,… Christian Hudson not to mention extraordinary (indiscernible) to their safety. To the defense, I think they will have a much more positive outcome. My accommodation to their coaching staff and a phenomenal team and a very phenomenal fan base. 
 
On a lighter note,… You will know what team I support. Up there in Tallahassee. Just saying. I just wanted to make note that we are proud of those young men and we wish them the very best. 
 
Other than that, I wish everyone a very Merry Christmas. Stay healthy and stay safe! Thank you, that is all I have. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Vice Chair Robins. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Thank you, chair. Just a few quick updates: beginning November 24, and then January 13, (unknown term) is offering Florida State Park passes… If you are an outdoor person. 
 
And I did this with my kids, (Indiscernible) it includes your hunting and fishing license. I think, as an adult, I pay 110, $120 per year. Right now, it is 50% off. You can buy these for your kids for life. So, it would be 200 bucks if the kid is 0-3. 
 
You can go down to the tank and licensing office, or online. Very good program, save money, there is nothing that they can be said about it. 
 
Also, since it is the holiday season, we need to talk about a couple of things for two of my favorite Councilman: Don and Troy. Don, I will get yours in the second, the Mr can you write forward — I don't of the exact date but Karissa, I just sent you an email from the Florida Sentinel — long story short, I think Mr Kent had made a motion, or we directed staff for (indiscernible) beach vehicles, a couple of different things. 
 
I believe there is a state grant now that I have found that is called the Track Chair program, which enables people of mobility… And that is a vehicle with actual tracks. Can we see the video, please? 
 
Is getting tremendous traction, and can we please expand this to see how it would work on the beach? Or some of our Echo and other initiatives that we do? I can put that into motion. 
 
TROY KENT: 
Thank you for paying attention and looking for this stuff. I will look into it and see if it is feasible. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
We have a motion to see about the Track Chair incentive. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
You come up with a lot of incentives. Is this what you think about when you're on the tree stand, waiting for the deer? 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
All those in favor, say, "Aye". all as opposed saying, "Nay."… 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
I have a folder with a lot of information for your pillars, ATVs, OHP's. There is something I did a lot of research on and there is an obvious need in the community but, from what I can see, I would much rather look at plans already possibly have and explore that first before we take a deep dive into expanding another area. 
 
In the state of Florida there are currently three state forest in the state that provide transfer off-road vehicles for the community and visitors. What I'm looking to do, because there was support for this in the past, is I would like to make a motion to bring back or have staff dropped a possible letter to the Minister of agriculture (?) to establish an area for off-road vehicles writing in (unknown term) force within Volusia County. 30,000 acres. 
 
Within that letter, I would ask that the forest (indiscernible) have a process where we can hear from everybody, where we can… Establish the first date area in the state of Florida, it should also (indiscernible) the Council with process, and I believe a lot of this is done with Mr Santiago in the house. 
 
Although language is done. Not only does it save money but there are models out there. It is rare that anything in government raises money or supports itself. But there are models out there throughout the state, (indiscernible) being one of them, that actually makes money. 
 
My process there, before we spend money on taxpayers additional properties and and and, can we explore this? Because we need that support the local level. It fits our agenda of exploring this avenue for look into something else. 
 
Also, I talked to some surrounding landowners, just to see what their support is. They have no problem with these ideas. But again, I can get other stakeholders at the table and I would like our Green community involved in this. I think we can make that happen as well. 
 
I would like to put that long idea into action. And have a motion for Staff to bring his back, maybe the second week in January, and to prepare a letter in utilizing Tiger Bay for outdoor recreation. Or expanded outdoor recreation, I should say. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I will seconded. However, I do think you said in your motion that some of the research has been done that you are advocating for. I would make the recommendation that they don't want to table your idea that we are pursuing -- (Away from mic) 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
(Away from mic) we have a site… What you are proposing, Denny, thank you so much for doing that.… There used to be indoor biking at the (unknown term) in Truro which was one of the (indiscernible) bike races in the country. 
 
That went on for decades and I think it was expended in the 2012-2013? It has never been resurrected. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
I know in the past there has been some pushback with this. But, in terms of environmental activities especially ECO in the sport it has, we do so much in that area, that the (indiscernible) of this initiative is that a lot of the roads, the violence, the trails already exist so it would supplement our conservation with the hunters, the handicapped hunters that have mobility issues. They are only able to hunt a certain section or are off-road. 
 
Our birdwatchers, our other naturalists. There are a lot of pluses to this. But it is going on in other places and something I left out, is going on in Big Cypress National Forest, in the most environmentally sensitive area probably in the United States, in South Florida. 
 
They have a program for this. But they are running buggies and that is not what I am looking for. I think we can be responsible with everybody and develop a great two-way relationship.… 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
I've been going to (Unknown term) for number of years… There is such a drop for the economy. But also we have (unknown term) national forest where we can write off-road vehicles back in there and that is been going on for 30-40 years at least.… We needed closer to Volusia County, closer to home. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
And… Those businesses, government kind of forces people to get back outside (?)… We have healthy programs, that we push through when we first got elected.… I could go on and on, but the economic impact it can have. 
 
I know I'm going to catch hell for this over the break, but this is not for the entire forest. There is a way to do this that is amicable for everybody. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Just a question for me: we have a motion and a second. It's this site-specific to only Tiger Bay. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Yes, sir, state forest. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
My preference is to continue along the track to Marana and look at private land. And, I think what Don said is absolutely correct. There is a lot of money in the sport. It is kind of like horseback riding. And all the things that go with that. There are people who will spend a lot of money (Laughs). You do see businesses pop up wherever this is. I have great misgivings about Tiger Bay and I have other locations. I think of places that are not well used by hikers or anywhere else, it might be a safer area. This is not a vote for the location, it is about to bring back in on the location. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
I have the motion I can pass on to staff, to send a letter to the Commissioner of agriculture, Milton Simpson, expressing our support of that is the direction counsel is wishing to go. That area that allows OHV use in the Tiger Bay force. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
I guess I have a question, you probably can answer, you said wherever we go, businesses will pop up. I wouldn't businesses pop up in the vicinity of Tiger Bay if we went there? 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
They might, a lot is government land so I don't know if a business can pop up there. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
In the vicinity. 
 
You're saying if it was private businesses would be closer to the private land. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
At 40 and 17 there is a lot of private land right there and across the street where that could happen. One of my misgivings about this area is that at least what I hear from the public is they are widely opposed. Rather than create controversy, I would like to look at sites that don't come with that controversy. And let's get it started in Volusia County. Alright, we have a motion to send a letter and a second, any other discussion? All in favor say aye, anybody opposed? It will be me, motion carries 6 to 1. 
 
Do you have other... 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
I want to tell everybody to keep up the good work, especially you Jake. George, Mike, Russ, the whole team, thank you. Beach safety and all of our first responders, we love you guys. I know it has not been an easy year but we are still here and kicking. The sun will rise tomorrow, the world is not on fire. So, I think we have a good team and I look forward to this coming year and hope we can continue to stay on this path of government getting out of the way. Out of the lives of our people, thank you. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
What we have to do to get on your favorites list. He only named two. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
I have to see in 2024, give you some incentive there. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Just a couple of quick things. Everybody is saying thank you. Andy I see you back there, you have guided the beach patrol through a tough year of change. You have done it well. Morale was at an all-time low and you are bringing it back up. People have confidence in you, I have confidence in you. So I look forward to next year when you have a Merry Christmas. 
 
We have a lot of new employees in here, Michael Ryan the director of the ocean center. New to an area, welcome and I hope you will have a Merry Christmas. It will be different than where you came from. If you want white, go to the beach. You can probably swim on Christmas Day and have a white Christmas that way. 
 
And two people in this audience. I don't know why everybody is thanking you, take you for not sleeping today. But, I always notice, that we have two members of the press that are here and a free press is really important for government and accountability. Sheldon, I think you have missed one meeting when you are not well. Somebody had mentioned a news Journal article they didn't agree with, it wasn't your article. One thing I have noticed about you is when you call me you actually do it accurately. And the fact that you do that, I think will get better participation from this counseling so I appreciate you being here and I really think it is important. 
 
I know you are new to this area and I hope you have a wonderful Christmas. I don't know if you are going home with family are not. Al Everson I see you , you go to every Council meeting in West Volusia and I appreciate the hard work you put into the county. I know it you want to make it a better place to live. I know you are specific to West Volusia and I know you have a love for people and a love for the entire county. Thank you for what you do and Merry Christmas to you. 
 
To all of the women on the third floor, I see a man down there but you are not on the third floor, you are kept in the dungeon. But thank you all that makes this work and serve all of us, the councilmembers on the third floor. Thank you for how you do it so well and always with a smile. 
 
And by wishing everybody a Merry Christmas and we are adjourned at 4:53. 
 
(Meeting adjourned)