Please standby for realtime  captions.  >> Please standby for realtime  captions.  >> Welcome to the  December 4  18 of Volusia County Council and  at this time we going to hear from  those who filled out a card and  wish to speak. Please when you come  to the  podium, state your name and address  for the record and we will be happy  to here. We will not answer questions  at this time, but  any follow-up will be  needed we will direct that to the  staff. The first person who wishes  to speak is  Greg McKinley.  Greg?  

 Good morning.  Greg McKinley. 1530 County  line Road. I went ahead and printed  out some of the stuff, the reason  I'm here today is over the origins  that the County  passed 2018-15 dealing with -- I  have a wedding barn down the road  from our house that I've been dealing  with  for -- my family and I have been  working with the  noise issue and traffic issue for  almost 4 years now. I  know that they have their LLC maybe a year  ago but they been operating for  four years  the states to and 50 acre  can go which  is untrue. The Kathie's is  to  own that grove and I could go  on for days, but basically they're  not an agricultural operation. The  cows that are there now are not  there is. I used to have cows on  the property in the Kathie's own  it. That's why I gave the lease  to the different person who has  it now.  The problem is they're  trying to follow  under the agri-tourism and I contacted the  state, Charleston, he agrees that  they are not in agri-tourism operation.  The problem I've had is getting  the county attorney's the state  will enforce anything without a  county attorney. I've gotten with  Cassandra and legal  department here. She's been working  on the noise portion of it for me.  The roadblock that I also hit is  -- enforcement they agree that they  are in violation but they said that  they were able to keep operating  until  this is -- until goes  to planning. I've got it with planning  and they know nothing about it.  I've tried to  get -- I have logs from  the Sheriff's Department. I've  had -- tell me now that they won't  do anything about the noise. I  even have with different deputies have written  in here that there is no noise,  no audible speakers. Basically verbatim  because I handed them the ordinance  that is not going on but I can pull  their Facebook and it shows the  DJ booth and everything that is  going on. It almost makes me look  crazy. The hard part that we  have is I only utility  company and service the Tory from  Pompeii to pump coast to Sanford.  Beautiful place for us to live.  We built there because of Italy  over his for Volusia County and  for that  area, but we completed the house  appraises at  740,000 and -- every Saturday night  to keep my kids at through  this house. I just want this ordinance  enforced if I could.  

Thank you, Greg. You spoke  with Councilwoman  Deborah Denys and we will share  that with her and maybe we will  get back to. Thank you.  

 I  have a bunch of stuff.  

You can give them to the clerk.  Thank you.  

Mr. chair, I intend to bring  a comment at the end of  the meeting.  

Ronald  Scott.  >> My name is Ronald Scott  and -- put weight I returned from  Volusia County Sheriff's Department  after 28 years of service. I decided  to run for sheriff in 2016. At the  time and news media there was  some voting credentials as  far as graduating  from different -- so I decided to  pull my file and make sure I had  everything in order. One is I had  ever started in  the Sheriff -- at the time I was  under contract with  law enforcement assistance administration  where once I graduate I would work  minimum four years for law enforcement  agency. Which  I did. At the time I received my  bachelors and Masters degree with  honors. It was placed in  my file to chain of command at  the time which needed to be done.  That was by Sergeant  Harold Richman at the time. After  I went to work for  sheriff vocal at the time I received  a memo of valor plus some  other  awards. They were put in my file  through a lieutenant Judy Wiley.  After that, I went to  work for sheriff Johnson. I checked  my files everything  was missing. Very, very basic stuff  was left in the file. I confronted  sheriff Johnson. I was  told education in this county meant  nothing. Only testing meant anything.  Which he promoted 123. I'm glad  he could count to three. Everything  I got to the county was false. I  tried to get the records back in.  I  have them all at home and I have  my full file at home. I checked  with sheriff Johnson, no good. It  meant nothing. I checked with lower  bounds who's  in charge of the records at the  time. I was told we have to keep  our own records which is illegal.  I checked with the County manager,  he is in charge of budget only.  I checked  with a man by the name  of Matt which is in charge of  records and he said it's illegal  to take anything out or put in whatsoever.  I checked with sheriff Chitwood,  education was only for myself and  the other awards meant nothing.  FPO week, they advised me that they  would get everything put in that  they would send a letter to the  Sheriff's Department which nothing  was done. I had the  letter that they sent me which is  a waste of  time. Basically, this is the last  place I have to go. I found out  that many of them after I  put out  the word to check your files many  of them were false. And that there's  nothing that we can do  about it. It's too long for me to  run  for sheriff .  

Thank you, Mr. Scott. I will  follow up on this and get back with  you.  

Thank you, sir.  

Robert  Byrd.  >> Good morning. My name is Robert,  I live at 26  Oaks Drive , I'm speaking this morning with  reference to file number 6160 P  other parks,  recreation and culture and the consent  agenda. License agreement  with -- plant society to provide  plant and nurture native plants  and micro -- Bicentennial part.  On behalf of the PawPaw Chapter  the Florida native plant society,  and supporting organizations come  Halifax River Audubon coming national  scenic by way, corridor  management organization and the  Facebook group  North Peninsula reservation. I want  to commend the Council, the excellent  cooperation and good work of Volusia  County staff to bring the place  to agreement in particular we think  Tim Baylie for parks recreation  and culture, his encouragement and  assistance and is able  staff including Chris Lessing and  Angie Walker. We are also grateful  for the help of -- purchasing and  contract and Kathie Williams procurement  manager  as well as the  work of the legal and risk management  department in writing the agreement.  Bicentennial Parks nature trail  inaccessible wait to experience  unique motion to the review of the  contours and habitats for the barrier  island.  Volusia County government has been  responsive and are enabling to our  citizens initiative to enhance and  protect this wonderful park and  we want the Council to know. Thank  you.  

That was nice to hear good things.  Is there  anyone else? Hearing that there  is no one else to speak,  we will adjourn this portion of  the meeting and we will see you  back here at  10:00.  >> [ The meeting will begin at 10:00  a.m.  ]  >> Good morning. We will be starting  the meeting at 10 a clock which  is in one minute from now. We have  one minute. T manes 55  seconds.  >> Good morning. It is 10:00 on December  4, 2018 and we will call the meeting  to order. At this time. At this  time we will open the meeting with  the invocation today given by Dr.  Fred Lowry and followed by the  pledge.  

 Let's pray. Lord, we come to on this date thanking  you for the day that you have made  and for allowing us to be here.  You said in James chapter 1 it anyone  doesn't let him ask of you who will  give liberally  and always as counsel people and staff we  desire wisdom from above to guide  us in our thoughts and our decisions.  Again, be with those who will be  speaking today and everything we  do, just honor you throughout the  state in Christ's name.  Amen.  

I pledge allegiance to the Flag  of the United States of America,  and to the Republic for which it  stands, one Nation under God, indivisible,  with liberty and justice  for all. 
     >> May we  have the rollcall  please.  

This post.  

Here.  

Miss Wheeler.  

Rescue stack.  

Here.  

Ms. Denys .  Here.  

Dr. Lowry.  

Here.  

 Mr. Kelly.  

Here.  

All present and accounted for.  The staff would like to comment  on the consent agenda on item  A one. If anyone on council  wish to pull any item  or comment? Hearing on,  is there a move to approve the  consent agenda. Any objection to  the  motion? Hearing none come in motion  passes unanimously .  

Mr. chair, member of the Council,  Rick Karl, airport director. We  are pleased to present to you today  this program for incentives for  silver areas. I'm here with Jay  and  Kurt -- from Silver  Airways. This is very exciting,  this is the beginning, it's going  to be one flight today starting  in January and it's going to open  up the South and open up Caribbean,  it is just the beginning. We hope  to get -- Key West, flight  to Bahamas. Is going to be very  exciting so Kirk, come up and make  a few comments. They're going to  be hopefully if we  can make it official, the official  airline of the  Daytona --  show you the  airplane.  

 Logos and -- are lives  in  Port Orange that the company's headquarters  in Fort Lauderdale and they have  an operation facility in Orlando.  We hope to continue to build a  relationship with the airline and  to continue business  up here and  we will see what happens in the  future. George.  

To have the other one  as  well?  

This is the SOP. It they are  bringing in your equipment.  

This is a brand-new aircraft  and good morning everyone, that  we already have one already on  the ground in Fort Lauderdale. We have 16  coming next year. This is the aircraft  of the future. The deal was done  with ATR which is a French manufacturer  about a year and half ago. Ever  since we've been working on our  ability to get the aircraft into  the US and fly under FAA. We are  so close. Every day we want to spike  ball but we are still on  the five yard  line so we are getting close. She  should be in revenue service about  the first of the year, but there's  airplane will ultimately end up  in Daytona as we continue to grow  and replace the older fleet with  brand-new airplanes. Beautiful interior,  2 x 2 sitting, full overhead bins.  All brand-new, about a $20 million  machine. For a company our size  to have the very fortunate opportunity  to be the launch customer back to  the US with ATR,  brand-new equipment, it is really  really cool and we all pumped up.  It is really pink but we  have  a flamingo as a mask up and now  have a turtle so now we have to  decide but this is going to be really,  really fun for us and our employees  and the community we  serve.  >> Is that?  

Today we will go public with  our announcement starting in January.  Fort Lauderdale fares will be $59  fares. You can get into the Bahamas  for mid-hundred dollars. If you  look at Silver Airways we have about  a 30 year history serving  -- and the outer islands of the  Bahamas. It will be a tourism conference  on Thursday with our partner in  the Bahamas. Is kind of funny we  brag we are actually the  largest carrier, air carrier in  the Bahamas by departures, not size,  but we serve 12 islands. We are  going to edit the 13th later this  spring. Is very important for the  Palm Iams the way of travel, not  just leisure and pleasure, but  it's how they travel back  and  forth. Connecting northern Florida  it is really cool. If you  ever seen Exuma on any travel destination  it's where you actually swim with  pics. I know it sounds  weird, usually with adults  and stingrays but this is very unique  to those islands down in the southern  Bohemian islands and is really cool  and really fun. Pics migrate from  island to island and you can swim  with them. We have that in some  of our marketing and it we have  a pig, a flamingo and now a turtle  but is a good way -- a  way  to  

Mr.  Carl, let's talk about economic  development and the incentive a  little bit. We are looking to  commit 25,000 a quarter for  a total of 100,000 for one year.  And reading  the description,  we cannot by  law use monies already appropriated  for  the airport in an enterprise fund  for this type of expenditure.  

That's great. The airport --  fund financially separate and its  funds are regulated by  39  separate grant assurance or does  not allow us to do this. That's  why we have re-budgeted money for  airline  incentives in the economic development  budget. It was  approved in the budget so we are  going from the economic development  budget preapproved.  

That is where I wanted to really  go on the record with this is this  is already a  budgeted island -- item. It's almost a  drawdown, a drawdown from what counsel  and staff is recommended for a budget  so we are not incurring or taking  away from any other project.  

No ma'am. I would like to emphasize  one thing with regard to this. I  apologize for the late notice of  this when we do any sort of airline  transaction or economic development  transaction, we've given the County  manager  the ability to do good-faith negotiation.  Everything we do is always subject  to County Council approval. The  County manager can negotiate these  and I believe we negotiated a  downward. The airline asked for  more and we negotiated this by having  the ability and be able to come  on pretty short notice like this,  I very much appreciate it because  without that freedom  to negotiate we would not be able  to have these type  of opportunities.  

Thank you. The only word I really  liked what you said was  its  revenue service. I'm like yes. That's  what we need. Revenue service and  the revenue program and a new launching  site, if you will come here at the  airport for the future.  

I want to add to they have existing  contracts with major airlines like  JetBlue. I had the location a couple  of years ago I flew out of Orlando  and showed up to JetBlue counter  to be put on the silver Airways  Unit  two  Fort Lauderdale then down to the  Dominican Republic. They  all would have real connection contracts  in place and that that's the important  part about this is you are going  down into the hub, a help of the  Caribbean to connection Little League  to these other major carriers. You  can fly with them all the way into the  Bahamas but you can also fly these  other major carriers that they have  connections and I bought the ticket  it was JetBlue, but then right on  through to these guys. That's the  type of service we are getting,  it's quite an expansion, it's a  force multiplier for  us.  >> The way silver Airways is designed  we are in actual independent airline.  If you remember -- where we were  all from  that now  at silver, is very similar. What's  very unique about silver is we look  at ourselves as Switzerland. We  have cochair agreements, American  and Delta are coming online existing  with United JetBlue and we are on  all  the GD -- Expedia, Priceline, Travelocity,  any other great  Internet place can you  find silver. Are fretted JetBlue  who we know very well actually gets  benefit because they leave, they  really don't leave because  you can go to JetBlue.com  and book BAB to JFK and it may give  you silver, they would give you  silver via  Fort Lauderdale to JFK.  That's the same thing with United  and the other partners. It is a  very unique characteristic for a  company in the airline our size  to have something like this. It  hasn't come at a zero cost. There's  been other ownership groups in silver  that put a lot of -- into  the organization to  get these , unfortunately, they moved  on to other projects and new ownership  comes in but this is a very powerful  tool when you are trying to simulate  market and stimulate air travel.  Are rough estimates and again until  you start playing and flying his  20+ thousand in and out a year  in  Daytona. That's kind of conservative  based on the one flight a day until  we actually see how we get juice  going here. Its unique and different  experience that maybe  --  

I was going to mention the interconnection  with all the other airlines  is always a  help. But just from a layman's standpoint,  I go with flamingo, turtles cannot  fly and they are really slow. That's  not a good omen to have. By the  way, when you go swimming with the  pics you have to put on suntan ointment.  

[ Laughter ]  

I think that's a good one for  us to say thank you for  being here. You are wise and not  saying what you are going to say.  Dr. Lowry?  

Anyway, thank  you. We happy the are part of our  community and already living here  and being a part  and look forward to what we can  accomplish in the years to come.  A great service for our community.  We will move to item  number two.  Joe?  

He will handle this one, this  is a confirmation for an appointment  for our new  animal director,  Adam leads. Somehow he has managed  to get a degree in almost every  SEC school so he is covered all  the  big bases. AC Florida,  Tennessee, LSU, so  I'm going to turn it over to Joe.  

Good morning, members of council,  public protection, Chairman Kelly,  I like to introduce this morning  to you Adam leads as our  animal control  director at your approval. You got  his resume in the packet so I won't  spend too much time going over that.  I would like to just point out  that as Mr. --  has already said, he  has several technical  certifications and  formal education that focuses on  veterinary medicine, veterinary  sciences. He serves with  ASPCA now as a  regional director. A puts him  in  a -- places in the United States  that typically done of us would  go into regarding cruelty to animals  or animal situations  and disasters.  So he's well fit for this position.  We did do a national  search for him and he rose to  the top  and as Mr. rock 'n roll would say  he  is a pro from Dover I think an animal  control. Sorry will introduce Adam  leads to you this morning and we  will answer any questions you may  have.  >> Thank you. Good morning distinguished  members of council. I come to this  morning excited to start a new chapter  for my life and my family who call  Volusia home. If you are to today  we are excited to call Volusia home  and are excited about what the future  holds for  animal services and if so, look  forward to coming before you on  a number of initiative items as  we come forward in the future so  thank you very much.  

Mr. Lee, I did want to  say I went through your background  and I am very impressed especially  that you are --  regional director for ASPCA in New  York City. That's what brings a  lot to the table and I wanted you  to know that I am very much looking  forward to what you will bring to  the table to really broaden this  role and to add some other things  and rather than the  specific operational part. But all of the  other experience that you have in  terms of advocacy and all those  other things so very exciting for  Volusia County and this is a side  note, I thought maybe it was  somewhat coincidental but this morning  on the way over  there was a whole bunch of law enforcement  trying to round up a poor  little dog so we started out the  morning saving an animal and now  we're putting you into the work  on the rest. Welcome.  

Thank you very  much.  

Thank you. Good morning  and welcome. Conversation I will  be bringing up under councilmember  comment time, we  have  an issue it  looks like you are the man in charge  now I'm going to be asking for a  meeting in Southeast Volusia to  address our overwhelming problem  of coyotes. It is probably the number  one issue I'm getting  concerns about, real concerns so  I will be setting up a meeting here  very shortly with your help.  

I had one in my driveway the  other night.  

He wasn't carrying the  Acme  TNT like YVC coyote but it was the  real deal.  

 It's increasing so constituents we've got a lot  of questions so I'd like to do an  informational session because they  are willing to do whatever they  can do legally to help control,  contain this particular issue so  it's a discussion we need to have  and we will talk later about that  but I look forward to working with  you.  

 Thank you. Smith this requires motion,  does it not? I so move we confirm  him for animal  control director.  

Second.  

Motion made, any  additional comments? You had in  the card from a Sherry Simmons and  did you want to speak on  this issue?  Any  other comments ? Miss Wheeler.  

So glad you are here, thank you.  I will be getting with you. I was  approached yesterday by the ladies  that started the --  law which I'm sure you are very  familiar with, and they are asking  that  we have, what is it  called? Directory, a service --  animal  abuse directory. A registry is what I'm saying.  Like criminals have registries so  I'm going to be talking with you  about that and presenting it to counsel at  a future date, but near future,  because they would like Volusia  County to be one of the counties  that do have a registry for  animal cruelty. To be connected with the other  counties around, that would be a  really good idea so I'll be getting  with you soon.  

Look forward to the conversation.  

Thank you.  

In a few seconds I will say welcome  aboard. Right now I will say any  objections to the motion? Curing  them, the motion passes unanimous.  Welcome aboard.  

Thank you.  

We will move to item 3, the open  to public hearing and I have  one question. 
     List you are wanting to speak on  an item that's on the agenda which  is not listed, maybe you can  get with -- we  will -- that would have to be done at  the public at the end of  the meeting.  

Just want to  make sure we have the item on  here. George? Or  Jamie?  

I'm going to turn it over to  Jamie but this  is the previous workshops and previous  work was the Council's desire to  put back in place an  internal auditor, Jamie has worked  with Donna to  put together an  updated  ordinance. Basically if at the auditing  position but this puts the  position at and clarifies its place  within  the organization. It will be answering  to me, but reporting its  final report simultaneously to the  Council and to myself.  

 Thank you Esther chair. The ordinance  creates the Department of internal  auditing  come organizationally  the department report to the  County manager I charter only the  County manager and  County attorney our employees, but we created it  as a department so it has a little  bit of independence. The way the  ordinance is drafted the internal  auditor would come to the Council  and you all would approve an annual  auditing plan that those audits when  they are completed would come simultaneously  to the manager and the Council so  that there is that level of independence  where they are making their own  recommendations without undue influence  of any kind. The types  of audits are spelled out in the  ordinance and  the Council would direct the type  of audits when they approve the  annual auditing plan. We believe  the ordinance reflects your direction  and we  recommend approval.  

This is a public hearing, I have  no one wishing to speak on this  I will close the  public hearing. While we are looking  at this ordinance and thank you  for bringing this back, I think  this is exactly what  Council has discussed.  What really struck me I'm thinking  why air there -- in addition to  a  new ordinance, but it's not a  new ordinance. This has existed  previously. We are just reauthorizing  is probably the  best word, we are reauthorizing  a previous ordinance and shaping  it to  the current request from this counsel.  

Exactly, it characterizes it.  

It was funded in the budget.  So there is nothing that is meant  no budget adjustments that  have to occur so we are just reauthorizing  something that happened in  years past. But looking  at this and if you  could clarify whomever  we hire, whomever the internal  auditor is it as counsel we may  not know exactly  where where an audit  should take place. This  leaves this up to the scrutiny of  this individual to have to  move around?  

I believe so. It is  something that you will have influence,  I would have influence and they  themselves in reviewing its going  on would of course look at things  and there may be a recommendation  that comes from your  external auditor. Whomever they  may be, they take a little bit  different view and then they may  recommend a deeper dive into a  particular area that may be in the  past we would have done ourselves,  but we would probably assign this  person to look at that.  

It is pretty broad too and that  the authority to conduct audits  of  all departments , offices, boards, agencies, contracts,  grants and any other operational  program under the direction or responsibility  of the County Counsel. I think that's  a pretty broad so it is not just  internally, it's all of the external  agencies and appointments and anybody  that has a budget that's using  County dollars will be  open to scrutiny and to an audit  should that be deemed so by the  Council.  

That is correct. Another tool  that you will have.  

 I think this could prove to be very  effective so with that I know there  might be other  councilmember comments , I'm going to make the motion to  approve ordinance 2018-21 grading  the Department of internal auditing.  

Motion made by Denny's, second  by Wheeler. We will continue on  with discussion.  

Action was going to make a motion  but that's okay. Thank you for all  this work, Jamie. This was something  that I found really important and  suggested that the internal auditor  and I think this is another good  step checks and balances and the  fact that there  will be and reports will simultaneously  be submitted to the Council and  the manager. This is all good. Thank  you so much, staff, for  your support in this and thank you  to the rest of the Council for your  support.  

Mr. Patterson.  

Thank you  Mr. chair. Initially I had deep  reservations about even supporting  this. I just  felt maybe the expense of it might  have been  overwhelming, but when I started  thinking about certain things that  I've seen over the last 20 years  in office, but especially at the  county level. I have the  utmost confidence in our county  departments and the way they operate  and what goes on, but I do have  reservations regarding certain contracts  we have with some of the  cities, not that anything illegal  is going on, but I want to make  sure that the county is being treated  fairly and that we are not really  that's my guess I'm more concerned  about the -- since  I live at the level of service that  I'm getting, my residence and  MSD with  law enforcement, fire protection,  those kind of things that we make  sure that the MSD  is not getting overcharged for something  that the cost with stay between  the MSD and the cities  like Deltona, . It is fairly level across the  field so that is something I'm  concerned about. This will probably  start after I'm gone, I will be  watching it very carefully, but  I'm willing to support  this now before I was ready  to come in and vote against this.  But after some deep thought last  night I started realizing maybe  there are some things that really  need to be looked at carefully it  will probably take some time to  do, but I think it is worthwhile,  I think it is worthwhile for the  residents. If I was living in downtown  I want to make sure we were not  being overcharged by the County.  Same time I want to make sure that  everything is fair all the way around.  This is important and I think sometimes  you can catch some little things  that  are unintentional that need to be  corrected along the way. Thank you.  

Miss  post.  

This internal auditor will be  an employee of  the county  internally. So I want to  ensure and really make sure that  the Council as a whole  that we keep up  on direction in  terms of what this specific position  will be doing and not  have it referred  back to somewhat of what it used  to be where it's  simply another employee within the financial division  or auditing division. Because I  think for the reasons that this  was proposed by the Council, we  should really stay on top of this  and perhaps as a council we can  lay out  some sort of strategic planning  each year or for the coming months  as to a game plan so that that person  is never left sitting on  their hands. I would  hope that --  

Think we have that covered in  the ordinance, there will be a plan  that will be something that we  will have on our calendar.  

I want to make sure we do that.  Thank  you.  >> I had reservations about this from  the beginning especially when we  were discussing forensic and I think  this is an alternative that is putting  back into place something. My real  question I guess is how broad reaching,  I know you said  so anyone who for example, anyone  who gets a grant  from us from Falluja  for ever or  feel weather it may be, we have  the right to audit the  particular persons application or  their city or how deep does  that go? The grant would be what  would  be audited. Was the grant money  properly spend it, not the city  or the organization itself, but  the amount of money  that was despite the county money  we  have given to them wasn't properly  expended.  

Currently we don't follow up  on that?  

We do follow-up to the best of  our ability with the grants. Will  use  an example. The previous internal  auditor audited the  1986 pager  lands program.  There were concerns by some of the  citizens at that particular time  that that money had not been properly  expended and some of the deals that  were agreed to with the state  of Florida that the money wasn't  handled properly and she audited  down all the way to the penny to  show the  citizens that that money, that bond issue  was properly expended so it would  just be that portion of the county  money. Sometimes it's just to give  the citizens the assurance but we  do track the ECHO  grants.  But there  are concerns sometimes raised in  counsel when those concerns are  raised would say their ability to  go look  into that expenditure.  

More direct question, if  and once the amendment 10 requirements  come into place, are we going to  be able to audit those five  constitutional officers -- office  budgets?  

I think the answer is no but  I'm asking anyway. Not with  this ordinance. That's what  I'm saying.  

That is not the way this  is drafted go we  are taking $150 million of annual  expenses which we will not be able  to audit or account for. Out of  the almost $900  million so that really concerns  me because  I think -- anyway. That was the  question and I got the answer and  there's nothing we can do  about that. I will  go on,  go  to Ms. Kuzak.  

Thank you Mr. Chair.  My question  is this, do you anticipate that  the amount of work that will  be done by  this auditor it will require additional  staff and if so at what  cost?  

It would more than likely  once  you get a qualified internal auditor  on the ground and depending on the  number  of audits that either counsel identifies  with the manager identifies or collectively  we come up with it may require a  staff of at least an additional  person to help go in there and do  the field work that would have to  be completed. Conceivably it  could grow. Conceivably.  

So do we have that amount of  coverage in the budget to address  that?  

For this fiscal year, no, that  would be something we would address  either next fiscal year or the fiscal  year afterwards. The last internal  auditor we had, Mr. Ford, he had  one staff person working with him  so there were two at that point  in time. That was back in the early  to mid 2000's.  

That would be one of my concerns  is the fact that whether  or not we would have the  necessary funding to make sure that  this is a position that is absolutely  something that we need to  have and we can afford to do  so. Especially when we have these  Constitution officers that would  not be addressed  in that. 

Thank you. I do have some concerns  about this.  

To follow up on that, what concerns  me is we will not have I'm sure  unless we can control it, the director  internal auditor and two people  in an office and we will be sitting  a quarter of $1 million to track  the funding. That kind of concerns  me to spend that kind of funding.  I'm sure that we could if we see  -- first of all, I'm very confident  with the -- we are presented every  year and our finances are in good  shape.  This is to suppress the opinion  that there may be something different  that there's lots of money hidden  which we know there  is not. It's  all out there in the open. We've  got all of that. We could not be  any more transparent than that that  we are creating a department in  my concern it may not be next year,  maybe the year after, but it is  going to be a big expense than the  time it's going to be involved,  it will take all of the other employees  of the  other departments to answer and work with when they're  already being audited and answering  the majority of those questions  that are asked now. We do receive  recommendations from our auditor  every year and they are followed  and we also get a good report on  that. I'm just pointing these  concerns  out. This is to me something more  for people to think that we are  transparent which we already are.  The opinions that we may not be,  we try to let people know all they've  got to do is ask if there's anything  very confident in what staff does  now. If it gets to the point where  it  is another quarter million  dollar annual expense to have an  internal auditor that is proving  that everything we are doing is  correct, I'm not so sure that it's  going to be worth the  money spent. And maybe rather have  the taxpayers that complain about  it to say sorry come  up with we are saving you a quarter  of million dollars of this year  and everything is running smoothly.  Dr. Larry.  

We all have an external auditor  that works every year. How  will this -- how will they work  together I guess is the question  I have.  

What usually weeks he  is the external auditor would be  very interested in knowing  with the external auditor worked  on every it. both internal and external  auditor approach their audit through  what they call a risk assessment.  They will assess the risk and they  will to some of their audits based  on that along with recommendations  of counsel, etc. As you know the  auditors come and talk  to you sometimes prior to the audit  to see if there's areas you are  concerned and they are all doing  that now. I can, the internal auditor anything  that he or she performs during the  year is of interest to the external  auditor as they look to see where  they going to spend their time and  in their assessment. On the other  side of the coin, the internal auditors  also went to be interested in anything  the external auditor may find in  their review and if there's any  audit findings, it  is usually typically the internal  auditor will make sure that those  audit findings are cured in  the next by the time the next audit  comes up. That is the  job  that as myself as the CFO in  prior to that as the county director,  we always make sure all our issues  were cured. There was never an issue  with that but that would be something  that the internal auditor may also  be involved in as well.  

My concern was exactly what the  Chair expressed   is another layer of bureaucracy  and I'm wondering if we could not  expand the external auditor in some  fashion to come see or do  what this would accomplish. Is that  a possibility?  

I think the role  the two are distinctly different enough  that I don't think that would be  appropriate for the external auditor  to probably do all of the things  that you might be interested in  doing. To be honest with you.  

Thank you.  

Ms. Denys.  

 Just a couple final comments  in the Councilwoman Wheeler's comment  she is  the one  who brought this to the table 1st  when we were talking about this  because I had suggested a forensic  audit at the beginning and looking  at the cost of a call and this is  a hybrid agreement between the two,  between an internal auditor and  a forensic audit  that again, --  those  concerns the -- we do every year  is set up to the state the  comprehensive  annual fiscal report, financial  report is a snapshot in time like  taking a picture when you have your  checkbook and you look at the totals  and make sure the totals are there  and they all add up but what it  does not do is go  into detail on what came in, what  came out and what other  accounts because you look at the checkbook and there's  different sources of revenue, different  expenses and you can say yes we  can agree that the balance but how  did we get to the balance? This  is a different thing and I will  tell you and speaking with them  they are not interested in having  this piece of it and it would be  a conflict of interest. I would  not personally  be comfortable any transparency  or accountability issue having our  same auditor that does  a -- they have to be independent  and this is and if we ever get to  the point where counsel decides  to shelve this, we can do that too.  This is not a forever deal. If  it takes on a life of its own and  counsel decides it's an expense  not worth pursuing for the future,  that's always an option but at this  point in time and it's  not just -- it's like a  swot analysis. Is not necessarily  that we will find fault, that is  not the issue here, but there could  be weaknesses that can  be strengthened and the savings  along the  way and duplication of services  or payments or strengthening the  system so it's  not necessarily  trying to find fault, but the strength  and any weakness or opportunities  or threats however that looks. But  I think it's  time and I still stand by the fact that  I think we owe our citizens and  each other and this counsel to go  forward with this for all of those  reasons and I'm going to make the  motion that  to support ordinance 2018-21 creating  the Department of internal -- I'm  going to make it again. Nevermind,  we are good.  

We have it made  and  seconded.  

 The position is already allocated,  correct?  

By the time we hire and have  enough money in the budget to pay  them for this fiscal year.  

Even though it has not  been used --  

That's  correct.  

No.  

I'm confused about the quarter  of  $1 million that you brought up. Where is this  going to cost us a quarter of $1  million?  

That was me that came up with  the estimate. You have in the budget  right  now for hiring someone that will be in  a range from up to $150,000 or so,  that is for the one person. They're  going to need an assistant and they  will wind up eventually have never  seen anything happen you but the  assistant needs and system and they  may be  especially to go out editing and  check in the figures of the money  expended to different cities, one  person cannot do that in one assistant  cannot do that because a lot of  those are going to be done at the  time sensitive time when they have  to be done so one person cannot  be everyplace. Then you add on the  benefits which are  approximately 30% of the benefits  cost and you're going to wind up  with a quarter of $1 million very  soon. That is just my estimate and  I would be willing to bet a lunch  to everybody appeared  that within two years it will be  that or more. That is me. I'm  pretty good on figurine numbers  and I think if you give us the numbers  an assistant is going  to cost 40-50, 70 because it cannot  be someone that is not qualified  with the ability to be able to audit  numbers. And you are not going to  find somebody as an assistant that is just going  to be able to go in shuffle paper.  It's going to be much more detailed  than that. They will have to know  everybody, get numbers but they  have to be able to know where to  look and how to match the numbers  up. For example, it would not be  just a clerk who has changed to  process numbers but you would have  to have as an assistant you have  to have a qualified probably the  assistant would be one level below  the director. Then one  more question --  

I have  another question. We were talking  about the quarter of $1 million  but it is already budgeted?  

No.  

 It's budgeted.  

The one internal auditor position  has been budgeted.  

What I've got -- while I have  a title for  an auditor, other than the  internal auditor, there is no position  for that at this point.  

 Okay.  

I'm not really looking at this  in any relation to amendment 10,  I think  the reason my  feeling of this being brought up  was  not --  not to give the illusion of transparency  to the public.  It was actually to do  this function so I think that is  very important that we are not just  saying that this is being used as  an illusion of transparency because  I feel that this  is needed. Not to say that  our departments are not amazing  and they are doing a wonderful job  because they are, however,  I think given the recent  history and various things that  have occurred, checks and balances  are  very important and this position  is very much needed to  assess and  address deficiencies and to really  work to strengthen our county operations.  And again, part of that would  be counsel truly keeping on top  of it and not just letting it become  its own system entity. I do not  look  at this in any way as the illusion  of transparency if it is used in  the capacity that we are stating  that is going to be used in and  we could afford it. I  again don't see it  as a amendment 10 really  having any true effect on this  actual position in various departments  are no longer control  of the county so that's great, less  for this person  to do. I'm  definitely for approving this. Thank  you.  

Ms. Cusack.  

 Thank you Mr. Chair.  I would  like to have a  little  background as to this used to be  a position that we had here in the  county. What was  the ramifications or desire to eliminate  the position in the first  place?  

I'm going to surmise what it  is but I wasn't involved in that,  but again when we are in the downturn  we will looking out positions that  we could basically not feel in order  to save some money. The idea was  we could  do that. Illuminate the functionality  and to be honest  with you, the accounting folks do  a remarkable job of staying on top  of things  they do. A lot of the controls constantly  are assessing controls, all the  time and tweaking them and proving  them, etc., because we are in a  changing environment. Things don't  stay the same. From that perspective  we took on some of that role more  than we did before in the accounting  world, but what I  think also happen, we  also engaged James Moore to do specific areas.  For instance, when we had the issue  at --, when that mess starting a  few years back if  you recall, we would have probably  put our internal auditor on that.  But we  did not go instead we  used James Moore to do it so we've  used James Moore over the past 10  years or so to fill in those areas  where we have places we wanted to  look at. They looked at our administrative  service charges to make sure they  are aligned. There are different  types we have given them along the  way. They are doing -- tax audits  every year. We've engaged them to  do that so I recommend we do that  because I've got that down really  well. Some of the things that maybe  the internal auditor would have  taken on we have filled in with  James Moore to do those specific  things that we have targeted that  we need additional work done.  

It was a determined at that time  that you had necessary folks in  place that do the  function that you had paid in-house auditor to  do, is that correct?  

Yes. As much as we could we did.  Is it everything you might want?  No. We cannot do everything you  may have some desires you may have  I would say we don't have the staff  currently to probably do all those  things. But we certainly to keep  the boat floating which is our  mission. During those to  keep going, we were able to absorb  some of those functions like for  instance doing P card audits of  the purchasing card. We've identified  people in the office that can  do those audits, those types of  things which were in the purview  of the internal auditor at that  time.  

It would be at the discretion  of the Council to state  if this arching position should  be continued  or eliminated, is that what  I'm hearing from councilmembers?  

 Yes.  

I do have some reservations  about this. Based on the fact that  we have not had an  internal auditor and  it's very difficult to hire someone  from the outside on a  temporary basis. Who will  come and take an auditing position  if they could have some assurance  that it was going to be  a position. We have to be very careful as we  go into this. I'm not convinced  that this is where we need to be.  I think that we have all of  the necessary people in place to  take care and make sure that we  are running efficiently  and effectively. With a reservation  -- without reservation or not hiding  anything from the public and this  is an expensive project and  I'm not -- I have  mixed feelings about this. I would  like to be able to support this  based on the fact that it could  very well be a temporary position,  but then that's not fair to the  person you want to hire. Some longevity  should  be considered. 
     I don't think I'm going to be able  to support this. Because I don't  think at this point in time that  is a necessary thing that we need  to do  as a member of this Council. Thank  you, Mr. Chair.  

Just to address a couple of points  raised  . I did not make a statement that  this is an illusion, I made the  statement that we already are transparent  and everything is there. this is  not to create any kind of an illusion.  That was never anything that  was intended. The transparency of  everything we do is there, everything  that I have available to me, everything  you have available is there. so  he is not that, it is just that  some  people felt, I think, that we were  not because they did not look and  that's what they have to do. It  also is relative to the  amendment 10 and the  lack of ability to be able to audit  those functions of which one of  them constitutes about -- of the  entire budget and not be able to  do that, that also affects  the MSD which Mr. Patterson concerns  with because some of  those things, operations of the  various departments that may be  contracted with may not be subject  to us following up on it. That  is important. Because were  going to have the have the information  in one quick question which is probably  relative as much as anything, who  does the director or internal director  auditor, who do they present a budget  to whom?  

No -- they will present it to  the manager then of course I present  the budget to you. The independence  Park  comes in they are a separate --  they don't fall under finance, they  don't fall under budget.  They direct them answer directly  to me and the budget will be to  me and then again the work plan  will be jointly developed because  a lot of ways if you think about  our work plan is 20 developed anyway  because they're out there doing  what you ask us  to do. This would be more direct  in that a plan will be developed  that we will jointly agree on then  they will do  that work. Again things like what  happened in  the southeast will also probably  pop up and there will be a sign  that in addition to their other  work I would assume there will be  this is something that's  come up. We did not plan on auditing  it's, but it is something that needs  to get a deeper look. They will  have the ability to  do that. As Dona said, we have through  the years given James Moore other  projects  other than the calf or  so I would assume some of those  projects and those  expenses would go be removed from  the James Moore per input and used  in the internal auditor type position  so that's one way we will be living  the workload  does not leveling the workload and  the cost. When you went down there  was a extra charge that James Moore  gave us but there would not be an  internal charge, the auditor would  have to  do that. That's how I envision  that and it is something that because  we are starting anew we can work  on it and tone it down as exactly  what you want  looked at. I think that process will take  a little bit of time while we are  hiring this person. The other way  to look at it some of the fear if  we get a good person, good financial  person with a good background it  is like adding  an extra talent to the team. You  don't want to have too much but  we are a diverse organization that's  changing and you never know where  the roles will be so you're bringing  in financial talent that if you  decided not to  do that  to answer some of the concerns I  don't think we usually don't walk  away from talented people. We would  find things  because I'm sure there will be different  needs. One other thought  occurs too. We have not talked a lot about  it, but a lot of your department  heads and division heads have been  here 30 years. 25-30 years. You're  looking at over the next few years  with the changes we  have, people will be retiring and  new people will be coming up, those  are all opportunities were it's  good to get a good  audited area -- not looking for  anything  wrong but to reset  things and make sure things are  good. You lose a lot of institutional  knowledge in my years here some  of the mistakes we've made have  been sometimes with the loss of  that institutional knowledge. Disposition  if done correctly can help with  that to make sure it is not so  much defined what was wrong but  to help a new person get started  on a fresh till and  this is the way we  want to go in this direction and  they would hold some of that information  occasionally does get lost in the  handoff from one department head  to another.  

Hopefully understand that this  is not going to be a department  at the beckoning call of  the Council.  

Know it's just a beckoning call  of myself but that's a direct --  

I would not want this to be perceived  as something that we say one of  us says I want to audit these numbers  and then that just happens. I think  I can see it being overused  and abused on something like that.  Hopefully, we are not creating something  like that. Will get a few more comments,  Mr. Patterson.  

I don't think this position or  person with the position is going  to be the most popular person here  in the building. My experience in  past years  for this in regards to  the effective  amendment 10, if amendment 10 is  going to have somewhat of an effect  on it I would suggest that before  we amendment 10 gets implemented  is we do go into the departments  that are going to be affected by  it and doing an audit  to them before we hand them  off.  

Ms. Cusack.  

Thank you  for  your indulgence. George, I think  that  your comments help me change  my mind. Simply based on what you  have just said to me  about  responsibilities and how you plan  to manage that position. It makes  sense. Based  on that I change my mind.  I can support it.  

I'm going to support it with  the comments I made of where it  may go and hopefully future councils  if they see that it becomes something  like that that they will take the  necessary action and I think George  what you said you and I have talked  about this in our one-on-one  that we will probably have a need  and my guess is we probably will  have to hire an assistant as close  to a CPA as possible. The  first job that is CPA usually  takes is auditing. That is usually  I thought I wanted to  be one at one time and I saw my  friends going to  different  peak four accounting firms and spending  four years auditing which is not  a lot of fun.  Dr. Lowery and then we will try  to get this thing wound  up.  

I agree with Mr. Patterson. I  think those areas if that's possible  that are getting ready to go independent  from us need to be audited. A major  portion of our budget as amendment  10 comes into play is going to be  out from underneath of our  hospices and so what that cost and  a lot of people don't think they  realize how much amendment 10 is  going to cost. It will be  very costly so I'm hesitant because of the  cost like the Chair said, is not  going to be just one position. If  we know government it will end up  being three or four before it's  all over. I'm going to support it  but I'm going to do it hesitatingly  but I will support it. Thank you.  

 If there is no further discussion,  we have a motion, is there any objection  to the  motion?  

Hearing on, the motion passes  unanimously. It was a good discussion  and I think that's what we  should do, this is a  very important decision and we've  all played out some things that  may happen, could happen and we  should be aware of as we go forward.  

With that, we will move to item  number four and this  too is a public hearing and we will  open  up the portion and you've got those  books, don't you?  

Yes. This is Tom Motes is getting  ready.  This is amending our merit rules  and regulations at all the employees  work under. A lot of our contracts  are tied also  reference to these roles. This has  been a really  good work of both the legal department  and the HR department. These rules  they back to the  beginning of  the government and it's been a long  time coming to get some of them  updated in the last major update  we didn't even have email. We are  at a point and Tom has done  a series of days. This is  the third and should come if complete  this current round  update so I'm going to leave it  to Tom to touch him highlights.  I will say we did put this out to  the  union leadership and he can speak  to that. It's been,  this has been out to the  employee groups. Go ahead.  

Good morning, my name is Tom  Motes, I'm in human -- human  wreck grants it is human resources  director. This is the first conference  of review the final  since 1981 the Merrill, they have not been  reviewed. We started two years ago.  Hopefully this is the final going  to the all of them. We  did stand the proposed changes out  to all the labor unions to get any  input they had, none of them responded.  Basically what we are doing  here today is some of the major  changes in here that you will see  is one of them deals with 16 changes  deals with the definition under  section 86 to 28 times of eligibility list,  there's a definition and number  four assess  reemployment list -- layoff list.  There's a confusion what that means  throughout the merit rules so there's  16  places that it refers  to that is a layoff list. We are  just changing reemployment list  to layoff list which is in the definition.  That is 16 of the changes. From  the more important changes that  we are putting in here is the  no harassment, sexual harassment  and retaliation policies were not  in the merit rules. They were in  a handbook. The handbook was old  and  outdated so we are placing them here in the  merit rules where they should be.  They've been updated with emergency  disaster employment policy was a  resolution. Are going to now put  in the merit rules and make it an  ordinance so employees can find  it during emergencies and managers  can  find that. Then we went through  the Merrill's after that again we  are  updating, clarify the rules, the  rest of them throughout from issues  that we have seen and managers and  employees have came forward and  told us. We took these to the personnel  board. They reviewed them and approved  them in this morning we've asked  that you approve them. If  you have any questions, I would  be glad to answer.  

This is public hearing, do we  have any cards from  the public that wish to speak?  

No ma'am.  

We are going to close the public  hearing for public participation  and now counsel  discussion.  

Councilwoman Wheeler.  

I was going to move forward to  make a motion to adopt  the  ordinance 2018-16 amending the merit  system rules and regulations.  

Second.  

Motion by Councilman Wheeler,  second by Councilman Lowry. Any  more  discussion?   

Thank you, Madam Chair. I wanted  to ask the question that  this document  was also reviewed by  a  personnel committee, did  you say that?  

Is, they approved it unanimously.  

That was a concern I had and  no union organization had  any objections where they did not  comment on it?  

We gave them a time period to,  and they did not. I sent it to two  individuals  in the Unit.  

I want to make sure that that  is on the record that we had  all  of the folks that engaged in this  document had the opportunity to  make comment and that  has happened. Thank you, Madam Chair.  

That's a very great comment.  Thank you. Any other  comments , counsel? With that, we  have a motion and a second, any  opposition to the motion? Motion  passes unanimously. Thank you, Mr.  Moats. Good job, great  work.  

No item 5. Resolution repealing  resolution 97-167 initially established  year are emerging  to emergency disaster policy superseded by the  ordinance codifying the policy and  here you are again Mr. Moats.  

Good morning again. This is repealing  the resolution to the employment  disaster policies  I just stated in  the previous we've now incorporated  as an ordinance in the merit rules  so we no longer need that resolution.  So we ask that you resend that since  it is now in the merit rule.  

 Counsel?  

We ask for your approval.  

Is there  a motion? I move to  appeal  resolution role. Is there  a second?  

 Second by Mr. Lowry. Any objection  to the motion?  

39, the motion  passes unanimously  and we will move to item  number six.  

This is the resolution for the  historic preservation property tax,  exemption for improvements to the  it is  evaluate the  improvements.  

There's a public hearing, we  will open the public hearing portion.  

In morning, Mr. Chair.  I am  Tim Baylie. Today before he is a  request by Dona Jordan and Charles  Jordan who own  a locally  designated historic residence and the land because  eligible for the store preservation  property tax exemption for according  to the property appraiser they've  improved the property by approximately  $128,000, -- if you're looking at  the current applicable  County rate, if approved this would  reduce their 2019 tax  bill by $804.36. This application  has been approved by the historic  preservation board and supports  the approval of the  exemption.  

One person who wish to speak  on this and that is Charles  Jordan.  

My name is  Charles Jordan -- I wanted to speak today mainly  because this is such a good incentive  program for historic preservation.  We were able to go through this  process and take a building that  was abandoned for four years, he  had fire damage from a fire on  July 4, 2011.  Fireworks landing on the roof of  a garage causing fire. It was a  nuisance to the community. We will  able to come and purchase the property  and using this exemption it  makes it, it's a  good incentive to do the right  thing and we actually designated  had the property designated because  this is  1924-25 Spanish  eclectic Mediterranean revival typos.  It was owned by  Morton McDonald for about 50 years.  We felt it really was a  part of the community that needs  to be restored. Without programs  like this the incentive, these type  of things that don't get done where  if they do get done they get done  improperly. As a general contractor  with new world elders who specializes  in historic preservation, I've been  advocating for this  particular incentive for both residential  and commercial property owners.  Unfortunately, the federal tax credits  only deal with  commercial properties. This is one  of the  few incentives available to homeowners who would  like to possibly restore their house,  restore their siding and windows,  do it right and get some credit  for that. Is basically a revenue  generator in the  long run . You don't  get the hundred something dollars  10 years, but the fact of the matter  is after that 10 year period you  are back to a normal assessment.  So this is a  great program. I'm encouraging other people to  come before you and I just wanted  to bring that out to the public.  

Thank you very much. Without  objection we will close the public  hearing and Mr. Patterson.  

Mr. Chair,  these kinds of projects  I really like to see especially  there's a lot of properties in the  land that are quite old around  here -- this one being improved.  I move approval of the tax exemption  for the value to the  Jordan residents. Spent motion made by Patterson.  Second by Cusack. Any objections  to the motion?  Hearing nothing, it passes unanimously.  Number seven.  

Can I  ask staff to maybe turn the air  off or make it warmer? It is  really -- my thoughts are  getting --  

Second that.  

I would suggest  that you start bringing overcoats  and extra stead is  Max  Weathers. -- Extra sweaters.  

Just don't turn it off. As long  as it's at 70 degrees, that is  fine.  

Let's continue. This is a public  hearing and we will open the  public hearing. Item  7.  

I bet you have one after  that.  

Still asking for continuance  on this item?  

Yes, sir.  

I move that we approve or continuous  of that from June  22, 2019 at the Council meeting  at 10:30  AM.  

Continued this to  January 22. Any objections to the  motion?  

Hearing on the motion is passed  unanimously and we will move to  --  

We need a minute recess.  

We will take  eight minutes. We will be back  at 11:20. [ Captioners  transitioning ] 

 We will reconvene the meeting in  one minute. We will reconvene the  meeting in one minute. 
     >>> It  is 11:20 AM and we will go ahead  and reconvene the county council  meeting and open the public hearing , on item number eight. 

Good morning,  before each of you today is an application  submitted on behalf of,  excuse me, Miss Valerie Harper who is the  owner of a property at 217 Dawson  Brown Road.  Ms. Hart raises courses  on this property, it is a bona fide  agricultural pursuit so therefore it has an agricultural  classification. In front of your  pages eight so therefore it has  an agricultural classification.  In front of your pages 815 and 816  of the agenda packet which is the  location of the property, and an  aerial of the site. Ms. Hart is  looking to use the property for the horse and breeding operation  and she realized that part of the  zoning code one of  the requirements is if you would  like to install accessory structures that would house farmworkers you  have to go through an exception.  That is what is before you today.  It was presented to the Place DC  with a recommendation,  that is currently in your staff  report, in front of you on page 8 dash 13 and a  dash 14 gives  you a site plan of what is existing  out on the site and an aerial indicating  the existing structures and the  proposed structures, Ms. Hart wants  to put a manufactured home so that  she can house farmworkers and they  can assist with the operations going  on out there.  As I said it went forward to the  Place DC  with a recommendation  for approval,  they held a public hearing and unanimously  recommended approval. If there are  questions I'm glad to answer them. 

I have no when wishing to speak  from the public? I close the public  hearing.  

Mr. chair, I move approval of the special  exception for farmworker living  facility on 6.7 acre properties, 
     located at 217 217 Dawson Brown  Road. ,  case number S dash 18 dash 09 case  number S dash 18 dash 096 including  the recommended conditions of approval. 

Motion made, Patterson second,  any objection to the motion? Hearing on the motion passes unanimous  and we will moved to item number  nine. This is a public hearing,  we will open the public hearing. 

Good morning, if the Council doesn't mind I would  like to address items nine and 10  at the same time since they are  related applications, we will have  to have separate public hearings and separate motions and actions  on them but it's easier to discuss  both projects at one time. The first  item is an amendment to our map  coming from eight point 8.8 acre  parcel, the contract -- are looking to purchase this property  to extend existing use located on  US 92, the proposed change will  take the category from urban low  intensity to commercial. Urban low  intensity is primarily residential,  but it does allow for some commercial  uses. Commercial land use allows for  pure commercial uses, that is consistent  with what is existing immediately  south of this property. As were  in years existing, RV storage facility, and  what you're seeing is the owners  of that would like to expand that  operation and incorporate this 8.8  part --  acre parcel into that. This is your land  use map and it gives you the general  what, going from urban low intensity  to commercial. Item 10 is a be PUD,  it tells you how and what. In that  there is going to be detailed staff reports that identify  what is going on on the property  in regards to buildings, storm water  and buffering, as you can see on page 9 dash 40  and nine dash 41 we have a location  -- on  942 and 943 we so you the future  land use. Here is the proposed zoning on  pages nine dash for four and nine  dash for five. This gives you an  idea of the contents plan to clarify  what is going on,  here is the existing facility and  what they are hoping to do is expand  in this area if I can get this working. What you will see is, here is the  expansion of the area, they are  providing a 40 foot buffer  along the west side of the property  so that Atchison  property does not feel the impact  of the additional commercial enterprise  going on, the 8.8 acre parcel. I went to the Place DRC with  a recommendation of approval from  staff in the Place the RC held a  public hearing , again they came  forward with a recommendation of  approval. This is the first time  you'll be taking action on the actual  future land use map and the next  one would be they smacked if there  are questions I -- if there are questions I would  be happy to answer them.  

There is no when wishing to speak from the public so I will close  the public hearing and counsel.  

I move approval of both the resolutions rezoning the 8.8 acres located  at 2485  

you can only make one.  

You have to open a  public hearing which is what we're  talking about and then open up item  10 and that would be a separate  motion.  

Will that I want to start with  resolution and move approval of  the small-scale future land use  map amendment and then that notation changing the 8.8  acres from urban low density  to commercial.  

Motion made him a unopposed,  any objection? Hearing none. We will moved to item number 10. Open to public hearing, we've already  had this before, I have no when  wishing to speak. Without objection  we will close the public hearing  and miss post you are still up.  

I move approval of the resolution  rezoning the appointed eight the  appointed 8.8 acres  and the classification from rural  mobile home MH dash for two land  RV and boat sports to the be PUD classification.  

Motion made, any objections? 
     Hearing none the motion passes unanimous  and we will moved to item number  11, this also is a public hearing  and we will open the public hearing  and Mr. urban ?  

thank you, again, as with the last two items, if you don't mind I  would like to discuss items 11 and  12 in regard to this special exception that is proposed in front of you  today. This is an application by  James Golding for 12.37 acre parcel 
     is owned I one, this is located  near the city of Edgewater. Near  Park Avenue. The subject property  is in an existing junkyard. We have  new owners looking to clean up the  property and come in with new uses  on the property. We met with them  and identified what had to be done  in order to open up  a resource recovery Center and the  other aspect is installation of  an air curtain. Item 11 is pertaining to the resource recovery and item  12 is pertaining to  the air curtain incinerator. As you can see the property is  located near the city  of Edgewater, there is an aerial  that you can see, this is where  the existing junkyard is operating  out of there. This has been historically  operated prior to codes in place  and now we have this  company wanting to come in and renovated  operated. This gives you an idea of what  the zoning and land-use are for  the property, located on pages 1140,  of your agenda packet. This is a site plan  that gives you an idea of what they  are hoping to accomplish out there  on the site. What you're seeing  is that they are going to be cleaning  up these areas and their existing  and then they will be utilizing  it for mulch and wood storage and  then setting up the air curtain  incinerator, staff is aware  of these operations and making sure  that they operate within state guidelines  and making sure there is no external  impact on adjacent property owners, that is  incorporated in all conditions that  are necessary for the approval of  the special exception. A critical  part is making sure that they are  properly spaced so we don't have  any mishaps with their air curtain  incinerator occurring. And remember, an air curtain  incinerator is a technology that  the county itself utilizes when  dealing with a great deal of debris.  It provides the ability to take  care of and get rid of many of the  debris and a quick and efficient  manner and it does require a great  deal of monitoring because it does  involve a great deal of heat the  good thing about it is the amount  of ash or smoke is greatly reduced,  that is why it is a favored technology  for getting rid of debris. So we  have a situation  where staff has reviewed the application first and foremost, which is  the resource recovery Center and  the other application is for the  air curtain incinerator, we've reviewed  it for criteria the special exceptions, we made a recommendation  for both of theirs -- those, there was a public hearing and  they recommended approval. If there  is any questions about the technical specifications or  any other issues I'd be glad to  answer.  

And I mentioned  this is a public hearing, I have  no when wishing to speak against  it, I have an applicant who may  or may not wish to speech -- speak.  Mr. Golden? 

Good morning Mr. Chairman and  Council members. My name is James  Golden with pro-scientific and engineering,  5140 Edgewater Dr., Orlando, FL  pro-scientific and engineering,  5140 Edgewater Dr., Orlando, FL  32810. We accept on  the staff's recommendations the  conditions of the special exceptions, both special exceptions. And I  am really just here for questions.  

Okay. 

Thank you Mr. chair. Mr. urban, thank you  for explaining about the incinerator,  the air curtain incinerator because  in discussing this, this is actually cleaning up the junkyard. Basically. And making it a more  practical use. With that, and I  haven't had any concern or questions from constituents  in the area so with that I'm going  to move approval of --  special exception for materials  recovery facility on a  12.37 acre light industrial zoned portion  of a parcel, located at 2932 Edgewater.  

Motion made by  Denny second by Wheeler.  Without objection I am closing the  public hearing prior to this.  Any objections? Hearing none motion passes unanimous and we  will moved to item number 12 which  we have already heard , this is a public hearing, we will  up in the public hearing. The staff report we have had without  objection we will close the public  hearing, counsel? Is Denny's?  

Mr. chair, move approval of case  as dash 18 dash 02 special exception for  an air curtain incinerator on the  three -- 12.37 acre parcel located at --  in Edgewater. 

Motion made by Denny, second  by Wheeler, any objections? Hearing none the  motion passes unanimous and we will  moved to item 13.  

-- 

This too is a public hearing  in the public and is open.  

Before you today is a  request to rezone about 4000 ft.²  of a total 1 acre lot, its current  zoning of A3 to RR, this is really kind of a cleanup  because what we have is  flood zoning over a 1 acre lot within  a tight end to subdivision. What  you are seeing is that the zoning  line basically cuts off the southwest corner of this  particular property. The aerial  shows the property on page 13 dash 15 of  your staff report and 13 dash 14  gives you the location, this gives  you a little bit better picture  of what is going on, page 13 dash  16 and what you can see is an outline  in black, the actual what we're  talking about at which point, the  actual what we're talking about  at which .9 acres is zoned RR, .1  acres is zoned A3. This is being done administratively  at no charge to the applicant because  we see that it has been a situation  where there was an error in the  mapping and this is the best way  to clean up the issues. It is presented  to the PLD RC and I'm explaining that the parcel does not meet either  one of the zoning requirements, so  we have to pick a zoning. As you  can see, within that subdivision  it is all zoned RR. It makes sense  to go ahead and rezone the entire  property so that it is complying  within the RR zoning district. This  was presented to the PLD RC with  a recommendation from staff and  the PLD RC is sending it to you  also with a recommendation is there  any questions? I'll be glad to answer.  

This is a public hearing, I have the attorney who will  be willing to answer questions if  there are questions. Mr. Patterson?  

Mr. chair, I approve of rezoning a 4000  ft.² ocean they smacked portion --  portion from a  dash 32 rural residential, RR classification. Move approval. 

Motion made by Patterson, seconded  by Cusack. Without objection I will close  the public hearing. Any objections  to the motion? Hearing none the  motion passes unanimous and we will  move to item 14.  

Morning, once again  Claire, director of resource  management. What we have today is an appeal by Mr. Smathers who  owns a 20 acre parcel, 20 for personal  is subject to application  -- four or  5 acres.  The applicant went through  the process with staff in front  of the DOC they smacked DRC -- DRC for the  overall proposed -- and recommended approval and  in doing so Mr. Smathers requested  a waiver of the requirement to have  to pay the cul-de-sac that is required  for this property. On page 14 dash three and 14 dash  for you get a general idea of what  the location is and some of the  end existing conditions. I need  to point out that here is Murray  Street, conditions. I need to point  out that here Is Murray St., Murray  Street is a public right-of-way  maintained by the county and was  part of our dirt road reduction  program. What has happened is Volusia has used a basic paving method  to make it a stabilized surface  so that it can change the type of maintenance we have  to do. Existing to the  immediate staff of Mr. Smathers  piece of property are two parcels  that prior to Mr. Smathers coming in  and dividing them, there is not  an extension of Murray Street there  is an inquest egress that has been  recorded that somehow, in some way shape  or form provides access to these  two properties. We've been working  through the legal description and  their concerns in regards to whether  or not it makes the full extent  to the easternmost property but  it has been established that how  these two properties get accessed. What staff has  heard from Mr. Smathers was that he wants to create these four lots. The thing that  is unique and hard to pick up off  of this particular picture, until they send the next detail  out to everyone, this gives you  a clarification of what the lot  configuration is going to be. This  is a unique situation, it's in the O'Steen zoning area, as you are  all aware we have O'Steen overlay and as such we have no minimum  lot with required for properties  within this overlay. So hence that  is why we have these lots over here,  here and here. Typically we would  not allow for these , typically what you would see is  that you would have frontage on  a public right-of-way, and at the  front building setback you would  have to meet the minimum building  with. Or lot with. Because we don't  have a minimum lot width, Mr. Smathers is able to create this  and still comply with our code.  In doing so he wanted to point out  that this is going to be  for my family, I'm not a developer  I just want to be able to create  for lots basically for my family. That is why you see that the DRC did not necessarily require what  would otherwise be required, of a standard subdivision. Where  you would see a rural road, with a radius of 68 feet at the terminus of the cul-de-sac.  That would be a normal development  requirement in this situation. 
     But because of the uniqueness of  this location, the DRC felt was  appropriate and so what you're going  to see is that you have a 45 foot  wide ingress egress easement that  will be developed to our unpaved  road subdivision,  so what we are allowing is for access  to lots two, three and four through  a dirt road that  meets our unpaved road standard. Waiving the requirement for a typical  70 foot right-of-way. And waiving  the requirement for the 60 foot  radius for the cul-de-sac at the  terminus because it does not make  any further extensions. What we  requested though, is that  there would be a cul-de-sac constructed  at this point so that  emergency vehicles or anyone coming  down Murray who  didn't want to go all the way down  could turn around in safe condition. So Mr. Smathers understands this but what he doesn't want to  do is have paving of the cul-de-sac. We are requiring it because we felt we've already made  enough accommodation in regard to  his desire to have a rural setting and that we are allowing for the  access to lots two, three and four  to be an unpaved road. But we have to come to a point  where we are saying  this was made for emergency vehicles,  it is needed for the future. One of the things you  will hear is that he is requesting  this because he is trying to do  this for his family. We understand  that but once this is subdivided,  once those lots are recorded, they  can be sold. So it is our  duty as staff to make sure that  in the future conditions with the  current property owner who may be  fine with this, once he is gone,  that the future property owners  are properly being served. That  is why you see this situation where  again we are pertaining to emergency  vehicles and the general public  ring able to get in and out  of this proposed subdivision efficiently  and safely. We think that  we've made sufficient accommodations  for his request and if there are any questions  I'll be glad to answer them. I no  Mr. Smathers is here, if there is  anything I would be glad to answer  them.  >>> Good morning. We would like  to appeal the decision of the cul-de-sac creation of the four new lots, there is already two lots to the  south so there  would be six lots affected by this  but we are only creating for new  lots. All of the current residence  surrounding property are opposed  to the cul-de-sac, they don't want anything  to do with it, none of them want  anything to do with it. They all  want to keep their current way of  life with their rural lifestyle, they  don't want to have to bring in any  more pavement or ways for people to come in and  turn around and dump trash or do  whatever they do, do donuts or whatever. And as mentioned, there was already  an easement in place that serves the two property owners to  the south. We are not trying to create any new easement,  there is already one there. And  we all feel that to pave this  cul-de-sac is going to firstly affect the neighborhood there at the end , it could affect all  the property owners, not just the  four of us but  the four or five surrounding property  owners, it's going to affect them  just as much as us. If you can go  to 14 Dash 28 please? Murray Street itself , the entire length of Murray Street  does not even meet the standard  that the county wishes for us to pave the cul-de-sac too. The chances of Murray  Street going any further beyond  its current and is not very likely. 
     All of the property -- thank you. Like I said, the likelihood of Murray Street  going any further beyond where it  does now is not likely because all the property  owners to the east of this property  access their property off Maine  town Road. To extend Murray Street  to the east, it will  have to go through a significant  wetlands area. It is not something  70 wants to do. In the development  order if we could go to page 1423  please, in the  development order as approved by  the DRC there is over 900 feet of paved easement that they have agreed to. That will serve lots two, three  and four and the property owners  to the south. So why would we not -- why would not this additional feet be acceptable, you've got  100 more,  if we are allowed to use the current  easement in place, we want to maintain  it as a 30 to 40 foot right-of-way with single marked addresses and  driveways for ease of emergency  vehicles coming in and out, and eliminating the need for confusion.  If there was any kind of confusion,  there will be none because people  will come in, driveway marked, driveway  Mart, drive with marked. And at  the beginning of the road we want  to install, at our own expense,  a turnaround area for fire vehicles, or whatever. Whatever needs to  come down  or turnaround that doesn't want  to go into our driveways, we want  to install a turnaround at the beginning  of the property. But requiring us  to pay for a cul-de-sac, we feel  that is not needed. We would have 900 foot of dirt and unpaved road. 

I'm allowing you because of the  interruption, but I  appreciate it.  

Yes. 

David Harris? 

Good morning  council members, my name is David  Harris and I have property at 617  Murray which is on the south west  corner where the cul-de-sac is  taking place.  One of the residents there that  is against the cul-de-sac because of the impact that falls on the  area of people coming down there, loitering about  I would say. Also, as counsel  has said, you are wanting Mr. Smathers to put in a cul-de-sac to DOT standards and the existing  road does not meet  DOT standards. 
     What is it like a rock and tar? 
     Also, you will be having an existing right-of-way there now for the  posting homes, it is been there for 50 years I  guess, they've been using that road.  All of the property was eventually  owned by the O'Steen family and  days -- they sold that off. There is  access there, they gave her right-of-way  into it. My  understanding, I don't understand  why a cul-de-sac needs to be put  in when there is already an existing  access to the property. Legal right-of-way. 

Okay. Thank you. Missed Denny's? 

Thank you for your chair. I met  with Mr. Smathers and staff on this and asked the  same questions but what it has not been said here  and probably doesn't want to be  identified, but what we are doing,  this is a new development. We are  developing land that has not been  developed previously. 
     So Mr. Smathers, I know that's a  term you don't like to hear but  the fact is you are a developer  and you are developing for lots  that have not been developed and  counsel has, our  private roads or dents. -- Ordinance . The only real issue here and working  to peel DRC, Mr. urban there were  quite a few concessions made for  these four lots to begin with. Can  you go back to that? I don't want  to be thought here that staff and  the peel DRC have not been accommodating.  Can you go back to what has been accommodated so  far?  

Yes, let me go ahead and forward  you that, I want to make sure we  have clarity on what the staff comments,  the cul-de-sac, this is coming from  Scott Martin, to the staff to the peel DRC  or to the DRC, the cul-de-sac needs  to be stabilized, and option based for, and as you  can see Anthony Taylor who is the  engineering assistant, although  the survey, in order  to provide access to the two parcels  of paved road constricted to standards should  extend from the terminus of Murray  Street to the east where all properties  are on a paved road. That is a requirement  that we waived.  

And that's a pretty big one.  

Yes ma'am. 
     I think this is the critical part  from page 1414 of your agenda packet,  in order to provide an appropriate  turnaround for the public utilizing  Murray Street it should be required  a cul-de-sac dedicated to the public  constructed to County standards  granting the ingress and egress  to the two parcels to the south. Again, our staff when we were  coming up to avoid  doing this design, which would normally  be required, which is a 70  foot right-of-way, with a cul-de-sac  at the end, we agree with Mr. Smathers. We are not going  to see Murray Street extended.  That is why you have to have a cul-de-sac. Realize  that we require limitations on length  of cul-de-sacs already in our code.  So, the fact is that the existing  conditions may not dictate a cul-de-sac but for us to realize  it is not just this project but  everything to the west, also is factoring into this. So we are seeing that if you have  cars coming down there and the need  to turn around so they don't go  private roads on the easement, they  can turn around. You have  emergency vehicles that need to  turn around, they can. Our utility  vehicles, garbage and etc., those  can also turn around. It will be  a publicly dedicated right-of-way  that we will be maintaining us part  of the Murray Street requirement.  So we understand  their concern but we also have to  look at the bigger picture. Basically, what you're seeing,  I'm trying to get back to the aerials  so I can clarify, Murray goes further  toward the west. But we have a situation  where when we have a cul-de-sac  we limit the length of it. That  way you don't have this long road, single loaded, we have to have  the ability for emergency vehicles  to turn around. We  realize that Murray is not going  to be extended further, we are basically  requesting something that wouldn't  require any development , we feel that we are  addressing the safety issue and  still addressing the applicant's  desire to maintain a rule setting. 

There is also no guarantee, while Mr. Smathers says these properties  will be owned by family members,  that could be today  but we don't know what is going  to happen tomorrow and we don't  know who will purchase it next year  or the year after that, and makes a demand on service vehicles, and  we all know what happens during  hurricanes and emergency events  and we can't get our vehicles through  this undeveloped property. The point  I'm trying to make is staff has  worked with Mr. Smathers in adjusting , well we  could adjust, the  only issue here is whether or not  we are going to require that cul-de-sac  at the end of Murray Street, when was Murray Street put in Mr.  urban? This isn't even apples to apples because this is  all undeveloped. 

I really don't know, it was a  dirt road that the county maintained  when we initiated our dirt road  reduction program. We went  out there and basically paved over  the existing dirt road with, as  the gentleman spoke about, and asphalt  mix that would retain and  give us a little bit harder surface  that would minimize some maintenance  requirements.  >> So it is an accurate statement  that it is not to F.standards but  there is a reason for that, it is  because the road was put in so long  ago so when you develop new land  and open up new lots and previously undeveloped land  with access,  we've got to have these points.  I don't think it is asking too much  for the safety of all the  citizens out there, that a cul-de-sac,  and it's not even that, it's not that big of an  ask, if you've got for property owners, divide the  cost file for property owners and  implement a cul-de-sac. I know we've got more discussion on this  but I am going to make the motion  that we continue to discuss if that's  okay Mr. chair to make a motion,  I'm going to move to deny the appeal  of the development ,  I'm going to move to deny the appeal. 

Is there a second?  

Second.  

Motion made to deny by Deborah  Denys, second by  Pat Patterson.  We will continue the  discussion, Dr. Lowery.  

I've been out there. I guess  it was about a year ago maybe less.  And I wanted to ask, on 1424, it shows orange lines,  the road. Do we  have any technical definition where  Murray ends because there are two  properties south of there that use  that right there, as  you can see the orange or the yellow  or whatever color it is. I can't  see colors half the time but anyway, those two neighbors or those two  neighbors just south of the property  use that part to access their property. Did we  pick up trash out there for them  now?  

I don't know. 

I'm curious as to how our vehicles  turned around out there now. This is kind of unique because  you already have a road there. It  isn't like this is just woods here. So to me it is kind of unique.  I'm torn on this because I like  for people to be able to develop  their property, is there any middle  ground on the cul-de-sac surfacing that would be a lesser expense  then the requirements of DOT standards ? Because I do agree  the road going through there is  not DOT standards, it is a tar gravel  kind of a deal going out there.  Is there a middle ground that we  could reach that would be less expensive  for them? 

Good morning, County engineer.  With regard to the surface, the  comment as before by Scott Martin  is that we would accept an optional facing, that is not actually  a paved surface, that is the material that  goes underneath but what we are  saying is we are comfortable about  paving the traffic cults will they  smacked cul-de-sac or -- cul-de-sac or road portion, the through lanes would be paved  but the exterior surface or the  rounded surface not included in  that portion would just be a hard  pack surface like rock or something. 

We typically as a county do not  accept that but in this case we  would. 

I'm just curious because that  picture I had a moment ago with  the Murray Lane extending, it really  already services lots one, two and  three. That when there. As you look  up in the right-hand corner, there  is a lane that does not officially  extend into lot for but there is  an access. People have been  accessing that. From my travels  out there. 

That reflects where the legal  description of the ingress egress easement  is.  

This reflect the route that everybody  is taking.  

Right.  

People to the south, there are  two homes south of that property  and they use that road, I'm wondering  is there, because I  didn't since there was any technical  or legal condition where Murray  ends.  

Right here.  

Okay it does officially in there?  

No further right away.  Yes, that is the Smathers property.  That's why we were saying that previously we would have required  an extension of Murray, this was  pure application of our code we  would require  that.  Which is a 70 foot right-of-way, with a paved road and a paved cul-de-sac at the end. 

That is something you would require  to access those but generally you  don't already have, is  there a road going into that area? On a general basis?  

We usually don't.  

That's what I'm saying, this  is unique.  

I would say is not unique. We  have dirt roads throughout Volusia  County, we've been providing  people access for years that don't  even come close to our standards.  

This is a very rural area, you are really  out in the country here and I can  see their concern of people swinging  out there and throwing a mattress  out and all kinds of junk out, in  that cul-de-sac. I think that is  a legitimate concern that you have. But that's all I have. Thanks.  

Miss post?  >> I'm not sure which page it was  on, can we go back to the, Clay could you go back  in your clicking? Probably four or five slides?  Keep going.  All right. What we do this. You had mentioned, that's  it right there, and maybe one more.  That's it. So those two pages, you had  made a statement at that point and  I know Mr. Smathers is shaking his  had but I wanted to clarify any  miscommunication or misinformation, can you  go over, what you are  referencing in regard to  -- 

in order to provide the appropriate  turnaround? This is coming out of  the DRC packet in other words the staff's report to the development  review committee. This was part  of their recommendation. What had  happened, the previous comments where the technical staff requirements. When we at the DRC get  the application and the staff report, they include  a recommendation. What the DRC was  being told 
     was hey, if you're going to go ahead  and waive some requirements and  provide something then we do need  to have at the very least a cul-de-sac  so that way we have a turnaround  available for the safety of the  public. So, again we are  increasing the development out in  this area, we are going from currently  one 20 acre tract to four to 45  acre lots that will be developed. 

Let me just do this then,  if you wouldn't mind hanging on  one second, and Mr. Smathers if  you could just,  

I was going to ask him to come  if there were questions of him.  

Great because I have a question. 
     I just wanted you to clarify any  miscommunication or misinformation  that either you might have a we  might have.  

I would like to clarify one thing.  When you see the picture of that  cul-de-sac with  -- that was not the suggestion of  the DRC, that was my suggestion.  I proposed that. They make it sound  like they made a concession to me  but here is what we will give you,  which is totally incorrect. I came  up with that design myself to propose  to the DRC.  That was what was said earlier,  we made concessions to me. But in  fact you did not. That is my proposal. 

That is a concession.  

It is a concession opposed to come a it doesn't matter  who made the offer and acceptance. 

A concession means you're giving  up something. 

I think from what I understand  and I think legal can answer this,  the requirement you would have been  asked to do would not have been  that.  

That's wrong. I met the requirement  of the code with that cul-de-sac. There is no special  exception right? You can correct  me if I'm wrong. I provided that  cul-de-sac.  

What we were shown  

with the minimum lot width.  

What we were shown is that you  would've been required the 75 foot  right-of-way to extend Murray down  and make a cul-de-sac at the end  of the loss. That would be the standard  as I understand it.  

To clarify we did not come up  with a plan you see in front of  you. That is 100% out of Mr. Smathers  reading of the code and what he  is saying is that because he is  claiming he doesn't have flag lots  in this particular situation because  he's got frontage on a cul-de-sac  right there. We require all lots to front on  the public right-of-way. So what we would have said is that  these are flag lots and you would  have had to construct this. So then, the appeal  would not necessarily be of our  granting approval of the cul-de-sac,  it would be waving him a basically  saying that you have the right to  require this as opposed to that. Because again, in our interpretation  these are flag lots, we are understanding  that the overlay allows him to have lots that may not meet  the minimum width because there  is no minimum lot with the but it  still doesn't take away from that  fact that they are flag lots. So what we've agreed to do is not  get into the argument about what  the code does or does not require  as far as lot with, what we agreed  was that okay we have a residential  rural area and we are  trying to develop for lots, let's  try and work with him and allow  him to have an ingress egress easement from this cul-de-sac to serve as the substitute for lots 
     fronting on the public right-of-way.  And being able to utilize a unique  flag lot type of design to meet  the minimum requirement of being on the public right-of-way. And requiring that to be paved  to our standards so that way we  could meet the minimum requirements that we would require of anyone  going forward with the subdivision. So he is correct in that if I  misled anybody into believing that  we came up with this design, we  did not. It is 100% coming from  Mr. Smathers where staff has come  forward rather than creating a major deal  with him, we've agreed that we can  allow for a 45 foot unpaved road  to serve lots two, three and four 
     that meet our minimum specifications  for subdivisions, they are called  unpaved roads.  Typically that is reserved only  for rural areas and that is why  we thought it was appropriate in  this location. Again, we are not  trying to keep him from doing what  he wants to do with his property, we are just trying to find  the minimum safety requirements  that would meet our code requirements. 

Miss post? If I could have someone address the legal part  of that?  

Actually that was not my, what  I wanted was to allow Mr. Smathers the opportunity  to rebut anything staff said, he  is an applicant here with an appeal.  

That's what I was doing. 

I just wanted to make sure that  we weren't getting sideways on that  Mr. chair. I knew that you knew  that but I wanted to make sure that  Mr. Smathers felt that he had sufficient  time to rebut and discuss his version  of the appeal.  

That's right. I was waiting till  we had questions and all the questions  that he could discuss. And rebut  or discuss or try to clarify, I  would say clarify those. If there is anything else you would  like to clarify please do so.  

Wait, please speak into the microphone.  

I believe  I heard the comment that cul-de-sac could be paved  with the lime rock base according to the roads, was that correct? 

That is what the comments say. 
     It has to be a certain depth but  it doesn't have to  be paved.  

Yes and you can cordon it that  with  

so you are good with that?  

Wow. Okay. 

We should have led with that. 

We just all needed to talk.  

Ith I'm hearing this correctly  Mr. chair the appellant is agreeing that he will stabilize the cul-de-sac with a lime rock base.  

I think, Thad, do you  have that in the report somewhere? It's written in there, the base  that you've allow him to do that  with?  >>,  Number one,  above Scott Martin, the cul-de-sac  needs to be stabilize with the latest version  of F DOT's roadway traffic and design  standards optional base group 4.  

Which is that? So it was in there, just a misunderstanding  or misinterpretation.  

All the conversations I  have had, it was paved to a DOT  spec Road.  

It is but it's too group for  of optional group for which didn't  go forward enough to say you don't  have to have 4 inches of  base and 6 inches of overlay with  topping on it. So that was  probably what they were looking  at. With that, we have a  motion on the floor which I would  like to clear up. 

The motion is to deny.  

Yes I understand that. So I'm  going to ask for people to vote  no.  

Let's clarify this. 

They can put whatever they want  to vote.  

But you've misstated the motion. He has just agreed with what Place DRC said  and staff  said so when we had we deny the  appeal, the appeal is saying we don't want  to cul-de-sac, there's going to  be no cul-de-sac what we are saying  is there will be a cul-de-sac and  he is in agreement with that based  on what we just said, so denying  the appeal grants the fact that  the cul-de-sac will go in based  on the minimum standards that we  discussed. Was that correct? So  we want to approve the denial.  

Yes. It's confusing. 

Is that right?  

Yes.  

Okay. It's a positive negative. 

All in favor?  

Any objections to the motion  to deny the appeal? Hearing no  objection, deny the appeal and the  motion carries. 

And it's a good ending.  

It's a good ending. Yes. Thank  you.  

Thank you Mr. Smathers and all  involved in making that come about. 

Are you hundreds try to  get this or go to lunch?  

 I think we should get to item 15  and get it out of the way. Then  we can go to lunch.  

This is a public hearing and  we will open the public hearing.  

Thank you very much this was  continued from October 30, this  is a special exception for nonexempt  excavation at 7083 7083 State Road. 44, the subject  property is located on the north  side of 44 , it went forward to the Place DRC  with the recommendation of approval  from staff,  Place DRC send it forward  to the County Counsel recommendation  for approval.  At the October 3, meeting, residents were concerned and hired an attorney  to voice opinions or oppositions  to the proposed special exception. Mark Watts is representing the  contract purchaser which is border  resources material, 
     they asked for the continuation  in order to meet with residents  and Mr. Wells to go over their concerns  to see if there was a way that additional  conditions or site changes could  be done to accommodate their concerns.  We have received emails as of Friday 
     where all parties were still working  through the negotiations as to what's  got to be done out there. I can  tell you that on page 
     15 dash three and 15 dash for are  the conditions that were recommended for approval by the Place DRC,  based on the  information that Mr. Watts has provided  to staff on Friday and as of even  today, those are going to be subject 
     to some modifications in order to  address the concerns identified  by the residents in the nearby area.  Just to clarify the facts of  the case, zone  A1 and zone A2, nonexempt excavations  are required by the by special exceptions. We go through and there is specific  criteria contained, staff reviews  it and there is a detail plan that  is provided. I've chosen some pages  out of the staff report to give  you an idea, this is a little faint  and it's on page 31 of 79 and gives you the  generalized location of where things  are. Here is State Road 44, here  is the 50 acre lake that they want  to do. This shows you up in this area,  the homes that are off of Percy  Road and in the same local area. All access will  be from the property on 2 State  Road. 44, there is a 50 foot landscape  buffer along here, the edge of the excavation is approximately  300 feet south of that north property  line. There has been conversations with Atchison property owners in  regard to the size,  there have been discussions about what landscape materials are proposed, right now the  plan included in your packet meets all of the site requirements identified for nonexempt excavations, there is a landscape plan included in this and it will  give you an idea of how they are  going to be phasing  the expedition because they will  do individual cells basically like  working in the northwest quadrant  and working around clockwise so  that they will do here,  here and here and then lastly over  here. After that there is a reclamation  plan included which basically talks  about we finish taking some of so  what we do with the product -- we  finished digging so what we do with  the project now. If there are temporary structures  that need to be removed, they have  to be removed, and basically put  it back to as natural as possible.  >> --  

There has been discussion about  the depth, this is from page 2679  of your staff report or excuse me  15 dash 31 and what it is showing  is the depth is 25 feet. The reason there has been confusion is because the report  talks about elevation. Going from elevation 45 down to  31 or something like that. Therefore  wanted to make sure that everyone  understood it was going down to  a 25 foot depth. That is included  in the information as well. 
     Again, here are conditions incorporated  by the Place DRC with a recommendation  for approval and changes,  I know  there will be additional comments  and questions raised by the residents  about these conditions and I know  Mr. Watts has a proposal in regards  to modifications. I will be glad  to answer questions if there are  any.  

Just one question before we go  forward.  You mentioned that there is going  to be, I understand we have comments  from residents, but there was still  ongoing discussion between the attorney  and staff? On things that need to  be changed X is that correct? Or discussed?  >> What it  is is there is additional conditions  or modifications of the existing  conditions that were provided to  us on Friday which Mr. Watts met with Mr. Wells and  Mr. Koffler who  is a concerned citizen of the area, where they worked on some of the  changes and I will have them go through  it but it is talking about the hours  of operation, the landscaping berm,  the landscape material, talking  about how the reclamation pan will  be addressed, -- plan  will be addressed, and regards to  impact on wells and properties within  the North because the areas to the  north are part of the local plan  area, they are reliant on walls -- wells for the water supply and  they are concerned that this excavation  would create a problem for their  personal wells. 

We don't have that in our report,  right ?  

not at this point.  

My question is, I don't really  like creating legislation is  at work on the fly, and leaving those open if they  are going to be part of the conditions  unless we approve something subject  to something. It seems like that  is kind of where we are. Counsel , anybody, 

I don't know to what extent the  attorneys representing this , I have not been involved  in these discussions. I think there  were still going on early this morning.  If it is minor modifications to  some of the wording that has already  been presented that is something  that a word here and there, if we  are adding extensive new conditions,  we might want to continue the hearing.  I think that we should hear from  the applicant and hear whether or  not they've been able to resolve  some of the issues and whether it was just minor modifications  to the conditions.  

What Clay read-out did not sound  too minor. Maybe they are but there  is a list of them. Is that all?  Is there anything else? That will  have to be worked out? 

I would recommend that you listen  to Mr. Watts because he can identify  the changes. Changing the hours  of operation is not all that's going  to change.  

The hours of operation are already  listed on number 13. It's  -- if the negotiations have been to  modify that and that's simple.  

Mark?  

Just  a question. Mark do you have a list  of the modifications and changes ?  

I have a list to go through with  you.  

But do we have them? Not  do you have them, do we have them.  

I have copies that I can hand  out to you, these were the ones  addressed and I emailed them in  on Friday afternoon.  

So there is no change from the  ones provided on Friday?  

No change from Friday. If I may, for the record, Mark Watts with  the law firm, my address is 231  North Woodland Blvd., on behalf  of resource materials, there are a couple of things going  on. Let me explain the context of  things first and then I think I  can clarify the tweaks we are asking  for. I think they are what you would  characterize as modicum -- moderate tweaks. 
     We are working with Mr. Wells, the  attorney representing the property  owners. In addition to the special  exceptions, he and his clients have  filed a petition to challenge the  ERP which is one of the storm water  permits that has been issued by  St. Johns River water management  District. One of the things that  he and I spent a good amount of  time on this morning talking about  outside is a list that we got from  his hydrologist  relates to the ERP, that is separate  and apart from the things we talked  about with regard to the special  exception. The things we talked  about with regard to the special  exception are very simple to go  through, and they require minor  tweaks to  I believe two of the recommendations. One of those being a change from  a 7 AM start time on Saturdays to an 8  AM. If I can run through those I  think you'll see this is not very  substantial, the change we are asking  you to consider.  

As you are going through these,  I have three people who want to  speak, residents. I would ask that  each of you the three of you, listen to the  exceptions to see if they address  any of your concerns so that we  don't have to readdress those when  you come to speak, maybe they've  been corrected. Just be aware of  what they are. If you would. 

Thank you Mr. Chairman. First  of all, I want to thank  your staff, they've done a great  job of reviewing this, I've often said when you're looking  at nonexempt excavations these are  probably the special exceptions  that require the most detailed applications materials and packets that come  into your staff to review and your staff is done a great  job of working with our consultants  to go through the detail of those applications. I also want  to thank Josh Wells and a couple of his clients,  Mr. and Mrs. Cook's and Mr. and  Mrs. Powell who did come out if you recall  when we came here on 30 October  and asked you to continue this because  we had received a letter the day  before expressing concern by Mr.  Wells on behalf of several of the  area residents. So we asked for the continuance  because of the holiday schedule  we were only able to get everybody  together for a meeting last Monday  night. The clubhouse over in Sam  Sola, so we had a meeting  and Mr. Wells and four of his clients  came to that meeting. And I also want to thank Frank Costa who emailed in, you've seen  in your staff reports the comments  that he emailed in relating to the  request. So what I've  passed out to you is a summary starting  with the comments that Mr. Costa  sent in. He asked that  we amend the weekday  hours of operation from 8 AM as a start time. We talked  and agreed to 7 AM  to keep the existing condition in  the staff report. That is not a  change at all. However on the Saturday hours of  operation he did ask us to consider  going from 7 AM to 8 AM and our  client agreed to that. And they  had previously agreed to limit Saturday  operation to exclude  excavation activities. But there is no excavation, it  would only be a one or two person  crew on site  no more than 30 Saturdays a year  maintaining equipment and doing  things of that nature, so no X ovation  activity but just maintaining equipment.  Mr. Costa asked that we considered increasing the landscape berm to 12 feet from  6 feet and we agreed, if you look  at the schematic I've included here, this is in the  existing plan set in your materials. Mr. Costa asked us to consider  going to 500 feet for the setback  on the north portion of the property. Hundred 50 feet is the standard  for the special exception. If you  look at the schematic though, the actual distance we  have between the North property  line and the beginning of the nonexempt  excavation activity is 300 feet.  So we walked through the existing site plan which is  incorporated into one of your conditions,  the existing site plan with that  300 foot separation is already in condition number four. Dated May 29. So you already have  the standard decision and  the new standard is pointing out  the standard that is already in  the plan set. So if you look at the additional  things, we do have in this area  a relocated drainage ditch that  currently goes across the center  of where the excavation is. That  is one of the things that helps  us create more of a setback here. We  agreed with that and I think going  through it with Mr. Costa he understood  and we agreed that was a reasonable  approach. We can go down to the  ones below there. We already have a 50 foot landscape buffer both on the north and south,  on the norther one, one of  the comments was to ask us to consider  doing bamboo. This is  one that the client is willing to  do, one that staff does not support  at this point in time because of  how they view that particular species.  We will do what you ask us to do.  I can say that I have used it in  some very -- some other projects, we  installed a sound wall that is the clumping bamboo that goes in  front of that and it has been very  effective as a screen in that location.  So we are okay with it. But we don't  want to get crosswise with your  staff in regard to that. So, I think  the other conditions that Mr. Costa  had specifically raised based on the  fact that we already had that 300  foot separation on the north and  us walking through the plans, we  resolved those issues and walked through how the other  existing conditions addressed some  of his concerns. At the meeting  we had with Mr. Wells and his clients  last Monday, there were a couple of other things  that we agreed to do and these really  relate to other permits that are  pending. We have a CU permit issued by  the St. John's water management  district for the dewatering activity  that would occur in connection with  the excavation. One of the conditions,  if you went to the minutes in your  materials, you saw that several  members including Mr. Bender , their primary concerns were impacts  to the wells. One of the things that the CUP  permit conditions from St. John's  required is the installation of  a monitoring well on the north property  line. Let me  give you, you have on page , bear with me just a second. On page 50  43 you  have a copy of the dewatering plan submitted 
     with the materials in front of you  now. That has been slightly updated  and modified based on the CUP process  with St. John's so if I could put  that one up. 
     Okay. Push and hold.  There you go. So  this is the dewatering plan that  was approved as part of the CUP, if you will note on here it is  hard to see but there is a requirement  for a monitoring well here and the  harm it under the permit is if the  well, if the water level drops below  11 feet below the surface of the  land, then the dewatering activities  have to stop and that is a protective  measure for all of the wells, the  other residential wells in the area. Mr. Wells and his clients asked  us to consider adding a second monitoring  well and spacing those out, the clients have agreed to do that.  We will be stipulating to that as  part of the resolution of the ERP  challenge they have pending with  the division of administrative hearings. So that is the other condition  that is out there. The other thing  I wanted to point out and this information  was not, the CUP had not been issued  at the time we were at planning  board so this is additional information  that Mr. Bender and mothers didn't  have at that time. -- And some others didn't have at that time. 
     The line that you see going up here and going around the site, that  is the one foot drawdown line based  on all the modeling that's been  done from the standpoint of the  groundwater modeling for the dewatering  plan, if  we dewater at the maximum rate permitted  under that permit which we don't  expect to do, but if we do, that  is the distance from the property or from where the dewatering activities  are occurring that a 1 foot  drawdown of groundwater could occur. Again,  we've got conditions in the permits that specify if we have  impacts to Wells, the dewatering  permit is pulled and St. John's has the ability to suspend  our dewatering activity unless there  is issues with wells that are , that have to be addressed. We went a step further than that  in our conversation with the neighbors.  Our clients are confident that they  are not going to create an impact  so they have offered to guarantee  each of the wells out there. With the individual property owners,  they will guarantee that if there  are damages as a result of the dewatering,  then they would repair or replace  the wells. As part of their effort  to make sure there are no impacts  in the area, again that is part  of what we wrap up with in regard  to the ERP. So the other thing,  the one other condition that came  out of the meeting on the 26th,  we have a condition under the existing  staff conditions that specifies  that we will have a watering truck  on site to knockdown dust  and that is existing condition  number 18.  In addition to that, the client  has offered to add a  sprinkler system along the whole  road to work on attenuating the  dust. We would ask you the  conditions that you have , the 300  foot setback we spoke out with Mr.  Costa is covered by existing condition  for, we would  ask you to revise condition number  13 so that the Saturday hours of  operation started 8 AM instead of  7 AM, the condition number 18, the  requirement for the sprinkle system along the whole road in addition  to the water truck. With those changes  we addressed the things that we  spoke with the neighbors to resolve  the concerns, now I would suggest maybe going  one step further. That is because  we have the ERP which  is the St. John's permit that has  been challenged and we have a few  things that we are going to tweak  and that, your existing condition  number 15 says the applicant shall  comply with any applicable local  state and federal rules. I would say if you  want to wrap everything up that  we've been working with the neighbors  on, including the CUP  and ERP issued for the project,  and if you add that language then  we've got all the conditions in  the CUP and the ERP to resolve their  concerns with the groundwater and  everything else, so I apologize that we been working  on that up until this morning, still  working through some groundwater  issues. And responding to information  we just got in. I know that there  are some folks that do have concerns, that didn't participate in the  meeting so I will sit and let them  speak and I appreciate if I can  answer questions, 

questions? 

I do not have a question. No,  I actually want to walk  through counsel because that was  a lot of information really fast. And I wanted to  walk you through what the  actual changes would be to the conditions that you have in your agenda package. As the  citizens speak, you have a better 
     context in which to hear what they  are having to say. If you will just  indulge me for one minute. It will  take me about three minutes to walk  you through.  

Put it on the clock. Put her  three minutes on the clock.  

The first one is on page 15 dash  for, number 13. The second line where it says 7 AM to 12 PM on Saturday only,  that would change to 8 AM to 12  PM on Saturday only. Number 15, states that they will comply with  all applicable local state or federal  rules, we would add the language  that says and the ERP  and CUP. Those  terms are environmental resource  permit and consumptive  use permit. Issued by the  St. John's water management District. The next one would be line 18,  they would be adding a dewatering  truck along Kirsty is  my understanding. No?  

The truck would  be installed as a sprinkle system  along the road.  

The whole road ?  

yes.  

Down to 44. So they would add  to number 18 the inclusion  of watering systems , irrigation systems along the hall  road going south to State Road 44. I believe those are the only  three changes to the document that  you have in front of you. All the  other references to the dewatering  line and the failure of the wells, those  are concessions that they are making  to their environmental resource  permit and there consumptive use  permit that would be included, when issued by the  water management District. That  language in number 15 that they  have to comply with those two permits from the water management District  that would tie down those agreements. Is everybody on the same page at  this point?  

Yes .  

all right, thank you I appreciate  it.  

I almost think, y'all  are attorneys, I almost think that  15, restating those two would have  been covered in the rules and conditions  but  

I just wanted --  

I understand. I think there's  been a suggestion that you put those  into the form that we can see  in writing.  Unless everyone, we were going to break for lunch  at 12. We can either get those put  into the form so that they can be  done and be back here at 130, to  finish this part as well is the comments from the  public. Only because it is 12 o'clock , my sandwich has been getting cold  and I don't want to get angry.  

I understand.  

So if the staff, the Council , Mr. Q Zach?  

Mr. chair, I know that since  we have folks who  would like to testify, do you think  it would be possible we could have  that done prior to lunch? 

I will work until we finish it  all.  

Then the document can be voted  upon after it  has been cleared up and we have  a document before us. With all the  inclusions. I don't thing we should hold the  public here until we have lunch.  

I would be willing to bet that  the public that's going to speak  is going to be here for the vote  but that's okay.  

By choice, but not because we  are holding them up.  

Thank you, and I'm here for any  questions.  

Patricia and Frank Costa and  Joshua quells,  if you want to speak. 
     >>> My name is Patricia  Mark wand, I live at 4161 Kirsty  Road.  I stand alone.  I have no one representing me. I  don't have any letters behind my  name. I'm here with God. So to be plain and clear, I represent  no one except for me.  I'm against the pit  and I'm going to call it the pit, it is not an olive pit. One of the  reasons why I'm against it is because  of my health. That is not the  pit's fault. It's not mine either.  

If you could either move the microphones closer  because it's recorded and I don't  want to have any, as you turned  sideways, we lose you.  

Okay.  A small person, small voice. 
     In this day and age we have a lot  of political things and this morning  we've already been privy to all  of that going on. We've also seen some magic going  on today too. And some misunderstanding. So I don't want to  be misunderstood. I'm against the  pit because I live in  a place that  is quiet for a reason. I had a brain hemorrhage 20 years  ago. I was told that by  the grace of God I'm still alive  but I was told that noise, any noise could cause my death. So, because  of the adrenaline surge that I might  receive. I'm very careful. But I'm still alive. I have a pulmonary disease and I have oxygen in the car. And this is  toxic air that's going to come with  the pit. With numerous trucks just down the road. So obviously, I'm against that, too.  I have asthma , I have COPD. Pulmonary fibrosis. That's not  your fault. It's not mine. It's the luck of the draw. But  I'm still here. I don't no why.  But I'm standing here. And I'm still  alive by the grace of God.  So I'm here and I'm fighting for  my life and I'm standing here and  I'm in front of all of you and I'm  saying help me.  Help me. And I  have no money, and I am not  in anyone's favor and I don't  hire an attorney to stand and  pray, I stand and pray and say please,  do something, I'm not against 
     anyone developing  an area. But I chose this area  to be in because it was quiet.  

Patricia I had to cut  you off.  

I know, it's three minutes. So  I pray that you take this into consideration  into the best.  

We hear you. You  have a lot of enough voice. Thank  you. Frank Costa? 

Frank Costa, 4007 Jason St.,  first I want to thank the Council  for holding over so that we can  get this done before lunch. Second  I wanted to thank Mark Watts as  well, I sent a list of objections  to the project initially and we  have worked through just about all  of them. The only one that is still  giving me heartburn is the landscaping. 
     Josh has already made the suggestion  or Mr. Watts I should say has made  the suggestion that he's going to,  his client would in fact put in  the clumping bamboo. I understand 
     staff has an issue with that as  far as being an invasive species,  is that correct?  

Unless they bring a bunch of  pandas.  

And according to the act extension he said that  the only invasive species of bamboo is the golden  bamboo and it is more of a runner  than a clamper. I think that the  bamboo a gross very quickly, be  could also solve some of the  previous speakers issues and that  it becomes a very good noise screen and because of its height it also  becomes a very good dust screen  as well. So I just wanted to make  that issue known so that when you  do vote on this we can add that  as a requirement. Thank you. 

Mr. Wells? 

Good afternoon,  Josh Wells, pre-40 North Causeway. I am here  representing the interest of some  of the residents directly across  the street, many of whom live directly  on Percy Road and part of the problem  with representing a group of residents  as you might imagine is that they  have differing opinions on things  like the concessions that we were  offered by the developer. So I certainly  do appreciate Mark Watts's efforts  in giving us the concessions that they've agreed  to and although Ms. Mark one says  she stands alone I know she does  not stand alone in the fact that  many residents oppose the project  in general. But to the expect that the project  would be in place I think the conditions  that you have before you are a good  representation of what has addressed  the concerns from the residence  from the standpoint of the noise  and dust generation and some of  the standpoint of the aesthetics  of the project. We are still in the process  of working through some of the issues  on the permit that are pending,  right now. And we do still have an active challenge to that but  as Mr. Watts mentioned, we are still in current negotiations. As far as it relates to a special  exception requirement, the ones  you have before you, I think you  have an accurate representation  of what we have agreed to in communication  with the developer. As part of the  negotiations. And ways to  address those issues. Thank you. 

Deborah Denys.  

Thank you Mr. chair, since it's  been brought up, I'm going to go  there real quick before we break  on clumping bamboo. Clumping bamboo  is used at the interstate exchanges for , very effectively, so if it is  approved by the state of Florida  and are extension office then I  think, as you said you  used it on another project, obviously there is approval to  use this particular species and  it will indeed do exactly what the  previous speaker said and it will  be a great shield as Mr. Costa said  for the dust and securing  the dirt berm, drive around some  of these previous pits and look at what  a 6 foot berm looks like after a  good washout of rain or smaller  plants planted there, your 6'0"  down to about a five and with each storm it goes lower. The  clubbing bamboo will stop that,  it will fortify the soil and grow  and indeed act as a buffer for sound  and for the dirt. 

Better than offense.  

Better than anything. And for  the record I planted it on one whole  side of my property and it has been  through to hurricanes. 

I think I talked to you about  this but I have a landscape plan  for our property that has clumping  bamboo.  

It's wonderful. Wonderful for  the state of Florida in doing what  we needed to do. So the only thing , and I have to say working with  Mr. Watts I got to say this, he  has gone above and beyond working  with Mr. Costa and others in meeting every single concern that the citizens have had  about their ability when we get this much agreement  on a difficult situation that is  a win-win for everybody. The only  sticking point, and I think it will , this clumping bamboo grows quickly  so we don't have to wait for the  maturing of the vegetation, so I  would ask you to consider that we add the clumping bamboo  as part of the vegetation because  I disagree with staff's recommendation  100% on this, and it's been proven  by what's current within the statement  and within our own extension agencies. So I would just ask  you to add that. And do you want to consideration  now Mr. chair? Do we need that changed?  

I would like to have  some legal as to why would they  object, where did that come from? 

That's a good question.  

It is considered an invasive  species. 

To clarify, we have a list of  acceptable species that can be used for landscaping buffering,  bamboo is not included because it  is a non-native exotic. That is  why it is excluded and does not  meet the minimum requirements. When  you see that we have a minimum with  requirement and then we have another  specification that you have to include  a certain type of tree or certain  type of shrub, bamboo is not listed  because it is non-native and it  is an exotic. We are trying to strive  for native planting and ran landscaping  and all of our codes.  

Well, we protect the  manatees.  

 But that is just our wish, that  is not a command, is that right?  

My concern is, is this mandated  by any law that prohibits us from  using the bamboo?  

No ma'am.  

Thank you.  

The code lists the species that  staff is authorized to approve. It is not included in  the list that staff is authorized to approve.  If counsel wants to add that, then you will have to do it as part  of your approval.  

Okay. So we  will recess until , unless you  want to come a I  would rather see it all written,  everything written out and we will  be back here at 145 or two? 

130 is  your advertised time for the  impact but you just can't start  before that time. 

We can start after 130 ?  

exactly.  

We will be back at 145. Recess  until 145. 

[ Captioner standing by  ]  >> It is one deck 45 and we will reconvene  the December 14 meeting of the Volusia  County Council and we will start  I guess with refreshing where  we are. We are still  on 15 are we?  Item 15 Mark watches going  to summarize -- no  is  not. Jamie you have the revised  --.  

 I actually sent it back  upstairs because they miss to the  irrigation on the road and I asked  them to add that language. There  printing copies for you and rushing  them to you as we week  -- speak.  

We will go ahead and go to  item 16 [  Indiscernible ].  

 John Booker.  

Counsel John Booker government  affairs  for you to  be hopefully adopted by you guys  any questions you may have please  let me know  otherwise we are taking  a vote.  

I just have one  thing  --  

You can just come up here and  ask us for a vote. What is  it John?  

Put what you have  there before you up on  Sue's overhead. [  Laughter ]  

It should be attached. It is  in everyone's package.  

I  got it.  

There was a typo that we  fixed so did come out as an  update because in  the summary page he had  said that high-tech  economic development they're asking  for 10,000 and its  10 million.  He went over and added the list  of appropriation which  is again, the summary sheet we talked  about the library  funding, ship funding, early learning  coalition funding, water quality  improvement. There has been  some discussion which I think we  should talk about today about also  the mental health aspect.  We can have that as a separate item  as well. We basically look for increase  funding opportunities for that.  That is not on your appropriations  lease but at least one of you brought  that up.  

I would like to see if we could  add additional funding for the mental  health that ties into so many  other things. Does anybody disagree  with adding mental health  additional funding? We will  add that.  

The other note we have at the  bottom just the purpose of that  is things will come up in between  hour biweekly  meetings so we need  to clarify that have  the ability to identify those items  we start down that road.  We would come to at the next meeting  it at it to a  parody list if it  was something major. Sometimes a  very minor thing pieces and parts  of  those that maybe they affect road and bridge  and the design guardrails for something  that may cost us more money. We  try to handle -- handle some of  those that they come but the bigger  things we would be back to you.  

Also and we came up  with this as the election had not  even occurred so some of  the item -- we had a  very close election this year [  Indiscernible - low volume ] As  we get forward the house hasn't  even announced chairs I  don't believe that announced membership  some of their committee so it is  still a moving  target.  

Stew put up a 16-14 which  is also at the any package these  are the other things that we have  been monitoring. You may not necessarily  have taken or position or we have  in the cases. We got  the  CNA --  CCNA  [ Indiscernible  ] when it comes to continuing service  contracts. They haven't been updated  in a long time. We run into  some trouble the cost of construction  pricing and everything we just want  to make sure that started reflecting  back into the engineering cost because  typically is 10%  -- 10, 12%  out whatever [ Indiscernible ] project  and if it limits our use of continuing  service contracts -- they have they don't update  that with construction prices those  contracts will almost unusable  for us and us was the period of  time on a project that is something  I know  there's always -- in fact is  projects out there in the public  is stuff that I don't think that's  competitive act just things  we want to make sure we update.  Fracking has been on there for several  years the COP [ Indiscernible ]  we found that for  several years. We can go on top  of the list but those are things  that we have typically done and  I see  no difference but there is we can  remove any of these things were  at more to it.  

Thank you  Mr. chair. I would like to add to  this list of things that we watch  as we would post  the rating of trust funds  particularly the [ Indiscernible  ] funds  for housing.  

Yes,  very good.  Is there something you wanted to  add?  

On  the legislative agenda the monitoring  the opposition of the [  Indiscernible ] for  firefighters, medics, 
     [ Indiscernible - low  volume ] 

That is the purpose today is  there something this counsel no  longer feels that way then  we can remove it or  change it.  

I am in support of proposing  personally.  

I am in support of supporting  simply because I think there  are two main reasons that a  person can  develop cancer and I don't  think that [ Indiscernible ] is  much as they do for our society  I think that cancer can  be determined in many ways other  than in the line  of duty or as it would indicate  if we don't  oppose that.  

I would somewhat agree with that  in reference to paramedics and law  enforcement officers negatively  in terms of firefighters that you  are going to be building  and everything in the buildings  burning at all of that  causes cancer.  

I think that was put  in their we actually are blessed  in our area not to have that many  structural fires that people actually  fight to have  that and I seen over my years of  claims  of that where a person smoked  two packs of cigarettes a  day overweight and whatever and  we all have cancer cells in our  body you don't know when they are  going to come up I think that is  the part to try to say definitively  that you presume that person because  of their line of work that they  have cancer in the line  of duty issues way too  presumptuous. I will listen  to --.  

They don't specify the types  of  cancer either.  

[ Indiscernible - low  volume ] 

You could also switch into  just monitor it because  the point the pill maybe upgraded  or altered to a degree that it  is acceptable.  Right now would have come during the past  has been as a full-blown presumption  in other words we have to prove  that they didn't cancer.  

I think they are moving away  from that.  

If it gets updated that  could change.  Right now -- [ Indiscernible - multiple  speakers ] everyone wants to leave  it as it is  say I? Of those  that oppose [  Indiscernible ] we will leave it  at that is on a strong focus 621.  Same thing would apply let's say  that currently we oppose this  is today 
     [ Indiscernible ] if it is something  we can support we can look at it.  

If they make it more definitive  and things,  civic things it firefighters fighting  as specifier on the house  and --  espressos fire on a house that  can be --.  Anything else? 

One thing that I would like to  ask is the what counsel  feels like,  we were part of friends of the court  or the Americas brief on the support  of Halifax expanded  into Deltona I believe we were involved  in that. I  have been asked if you would mind  if I would just reiterate  our support in Halifax in the  Delta area. --  Deltona area. Is anyone  against that? I would just make  it aside comments that as we were  briefed on the friends of the  court that I would reemphasize that  they considered going forward. I  think David sent Iago is going to  presented to the legislature and  not being the case since we have  already been on record as  being a friend that I would make  -- that would be one of the things  I would say spring that up with  that we would counsel  support that . Is anyone against that?  

I would like to support that  but I would like to know the ramifications  in which we are trying to support  to make sure that we are not saying  that we would agree to use the tax  and district funding.  

I have been  a for -- assured there is no tax  and  district funding that would be used  and also the hospital it and supported  as well. Not the funding from  the district is going to be used  in the operation or any part  of that. Our taxes go up in  our district for  that -- won't go up in our district  for that.  

That clears up  my mind [ Indiscernible ] also I  wanted to know the position of Florida  house will.  

Florida Hospital  is  absolutely 48 --  for it [ Indiscernible ] I've been a sure  that our taxes would not go up in  the district taxing would not be  used for that.  

Thank you Mr. chair.  

That was my  concern as well I know have talked  with Zach about this a little  bit about not necessarily in terms  of taxes going up  but just somewhat  of an uncomfortable  feeling of the  county representing a commercial  entity  representing Halifax outside of  the taxing district  in representation of  the courts. Then to go beyond  and have court Association  of Counties and number of other  entities testing representation  from the county to  be representing Halifax  hospital themselves I had concerns  with that and I know I  have about some clarification or  we can have some clarification on  the record as  to that.  

I  am not sure of  the question.  

[ Indiscernible ]  County staff, County  legal and we are  representing Halifax hospital in  a court  case --.  

Halifax has already followed  -- filed an amicus brief which we  joined with other parties. The brief  was paid for by  Halifax and Cliff Sheppard I think  the  brief if memory serves me or at  least someone from his office.  

I'm looking at this brief and  there's another -- a number of other  entities as well. My question would  be why --  just from a layman standpoint why  is the county involved  in that legal  action and for  a  hospital business since is outside  the  taxing district?  

I will  answer one I think it  benefits the county I think it benefits  all of us to have [ Indiscernible  ] the largest city in our County  

That County tax dollars being  paid did you County staff work  on that?  

No we haven't worked  on this .  

You haven't worked on this  at all?  

[ Indiscernible ] which was done  by outside counsel.  I looked at the brief and offered  the common I did not write  the brief so there was a minimal staff time  involved in looking at the brief  to make sure it was consistent with  what the position they indicated  they  would argue. The brief was done  by Mr.  Sheppard are actually a person in  his office whose name I can't say  at this moment.  

I'm not really questioning the  five dollars versus $500 [  Indiscernible ] specifically questioning  County  attaching to legal  representation  of a commercial  entity right because it's  a hospital?  

A hospital is another public  entity and the  issue was they argued two things  basically they had authority from  their special  act and secondly they argued that  under 163 the local agreement they  had with the city  of Deltona granted them authority  to perform the service outside their  district. The  counties interest as  we discussed in June I  believe  the interest  in the local agreement provision  chapter 163  and also to other things I guess  because the assertion  of Halifax that  had helped hold  their taxes done within the district  and then three as a  matter of  intergovernmental harmony comity  was the word  I used . Make sure listeners would understand  my  pronunciation. On that basis the  counsel approved it  and again the parts  that we were involved in had to  do with the authority  of Halifax the general authority  of governments Terry  these into service agreements under  chapter 163.  Halifax argued  that they were authorized to perform  the district because the owner had  provided a local agreement and.Tona  being the largest city in the county  had signed the agreement with findings  that  would benefit their citizens to  have Halifax provide facilities  within that  district -- within the say  excuse me.  

I'm still just wondering if it's  really our place at the county to  get involved in that with a company  per se  and --.  

They are  taxing district and that was  a decision that was asked of  you in which I relate  to you.  

I bring it back up now because  now I've looked at it a little further  and I'm questioning  the actual -- I'm  just trying to get a little bit  more information as to our involvement  in why is a County we would be involved  in that.  

We have a direct relationship  with Halifax  for one. It benefits  people County for them to serve  our  citizens and --.  

I understand it would benefit  any public entity [ Indiscernible  - low volume ] Are we going to jump  in on legal --.  

I think we are being a friend  to the  court basically. As a friend of  the court is also a question raised  as to whether at the time Halifax  was considering providing  service to  medical services and they have provided  services in the past and  the correctional facility is within  the Halifax taxing district the  rich jail is not so there was  a question of whether or not they  could enter into agreement with  us to provide medical services in  the branch  jail which was a discussion at  the time.  

Let's  move on --.  

In other words our interest is  not the commercial interest is in  the ability of the entity to  provide the service by virtue of  the interlocal agreement. That's  the issue that  is  argued primarily and they also argued  the amicus brief  also argued the authority of  their act. Our interest and my comments  were directed to the portion having  to do with the interlocal agreement  and again Halifax made  a request to you and I related  and provided a recommendation that  was worthy of joining in and having  the  issue argued.  

Are we going to be able to wrap  up the question then about their  involvement with the branch jail  because is not going to continue  to  come up?  

It is not on the agenda and we  are not discussing it right now.  

It turns out they are not providing  a clinic in the town jail but at  the time [ Indiscernible ].  

Another points,  devolution cities  -- the  Volusia city  [ Indiscernible ] also signed a  letter of support which they had  I think agreed to so I  think the community of the 16 cities  in the county supporting this I  think will  hopefully help. Anything  else that you want on  were off -- on  or off?  

Is a dynamic document we are  getting dirty so we appreciate it  and we will move forward with what  you guys put on  their.  

Can we get a motion  on this?  

I would recommend you do have  a motion.  

Motion made by Mr. [  Indiscernible ] seconded by  Ms. Wheeler any objections to the  motion? Hearing on  the motion passes unanimously we  will now go back to item 15  I think. 

[ Indiscernible - low  volume ] This is  a revised copy of the recommended  conditions for approval that we  modified in the break going to item  number 10 that is where  we identify [  Indiscernible ] with a six foot  wide level service from the top  of the [ Indiscernible ] to  accommodate landscaping [ Indiscernible  ] bamboo from  the genus pimples  the --  bamboosa . [ Indiscernible - low volume ]  On item number  15 the applicant shall comply with  all applicable local state or federal  rules and the regulation of applicable  government  agencies specifically [ Indiscernible  ] consumptive use permit  issued by [ Indiscernible ] lastly  on number 18 where we introduce  the sprinkler system so  we say [ Indiscernible ] within  the pit itself and the sprinkler  system shall  be installed [ Indiscernible ] utilize  four times a  day. Those are all the conditions  that were identified through the  discussion.  

Okay.  Miss Denny's?  

I wholeheartedly make the motion  to  support case [ Indiscernible ] special  exception for a nonexempt excavation  on properties owned [  Indiscernible ] a-one and  rural agriculture a-two located  at 78 30 44 [  Indiscernible ].  

Second that [  Indiscernible ] second by Patterson  any objections? The motion is based  on the amended condition  for --.  >> Motion is made and seconded based  on the amended conditions we have  in front of us which will become  part of the docket what you have  in your document already. Any objection?  Hearing none the motion  passes unanimous. Working process  not progress.  Item 17  Donna Butler.  

Then after this we get  to break for lunch that would be  great according to  my schedule. 

Each light  many times.  

 Good afternoon. Donna Butler, community  services director. Counsel's request  I put together a  PowerPoint presentation and you  are also being handed a booklet  what I will talk about it a little  bit. This is a general overview  of behavioral health courses here  in Volusia County. The county  does find  some of the organizations but there  are many more than what we find  so we are trying to give you  an overall look  at them. The majority of mental health and  substance use funding come through  Lutheran health services which is  a -- and agency that  the date -- state has hired  to essentially manage  the funds that are given to local  agencies and so  they distribute such as abuse and  mental health services administration  funding  so --  SAMSHA  of those that receive that  the county has  to provide the County with a small  fee has provide 25% global match  for the eligible services. Three  of the agency of the  next list actually receive Sam's  the funding . Other funding is quite expensive  you got client fees, insurance,  Medicaid, other grant funds, all  of those things work together  to provide for physically to the  mental health and substance abuse  arena. And  Volusia County [ Indiscernible ]  is the largest provider  funding for [ Indiscernible - low  volume ] 18 agencies are licensed by the  Department of children and families  to provide services. A  long list here there's an asterisk  at the bottom here that the notes  that the funded agent these which  was there are and I believe there  are six children's home  Society, Halifax health, healthy  start, the house next door, Mental  Health America and stewards [  Indiscernible ]. What types of services  actually occurred in the agency's  you got adult mental health services  that is  quite extensive there's information  girl  crisis stabilization case management  so forth, children's mental health  services, I told substance abuse  and addiction services and children  substance abuse and  addiction services. Residential  both of those cases and  outpatient care. One of the questions  asked was how to folks access  the system there's a lot of different  ways and we've listed them all here  and it can happen in a myriad of  ways it gave it happen  as  oneself refers [ Indiscernible ] I  wanted to give you a brief overview  of those six  agencies the  SAMHSA dollars that are listed Evian  which is our local match that we  provide through our budgeting process  children and families dollars that  come through [ Indiscernible ] and  our total amount  of funding. 
     Program losses Stuart Marchman act  lost to $.2 million for substance  abuse services for reality have  and there is also funding that was  diverted from substance abuse programs  to  build -- fill a void in  healthcare services. That's funny  had been provided by the state Department  of Corrections not local but state.  The neighborhood center also lost  money to provide transitional  bed there were only five beds but  every bit counts when we are trying  to deal with folks leaving the corrections  system. In July  the successes Stuart Marchman act  was order to $.9 million branch  from the --  SAMHSA  [ Indiscernible ] they got  to $.5 million that will help rapid  rehousing to homeless individuals  battling severe mental alertness  they are the hardest place in they  are the hardest to keep their not  just about providing the housing  is all of those wraparound terraces  that will help them be stable and  able to stay in  that housing. Is one of the biggest  concerns that folks had about  her steps that's great that most  folks will go there but we will  go next -- where will they  go next. [ Indiscernible ] they  also anticipate the restoration  of their essential receiving system  dollars which is also the  Department of children and families  [ Indiscernible - low volume ].  That's all I have for you today  but we did put this together and  this focuses on  the agencies that we fund or SAMHSA  provides funding to  and we try  to go into a little detail by the  program name, the type, description  and how they would access that.  We got the phone number  up there the funding source we're  going to hopefully work with community  information and get this placed  on the website so  that providers in the community  can use it it says draft because  I want to send it out to everyone.  I wanted to show it to  you first want to send it out to  all the provide the services to  make sure they are in agreement  before we get it  up live. We also will have hard  copies available so if someone wants  to hand  it out. We will have it in more  than  one way.  

[ Indiscernible ]  

Thank you Mr. chair. Thank you  Donna for this. Just a  couple questions I'm looking at  this what needs to be added where  the location? If I was going  to pick they stop going to say where  the location and with the  contact number.  

Generally have one number for  each agency and that is placed under  the age health the first page for  example has Stuart Marchman  act SMA [ Indiscernible -  low volume ] If you would like I  will be happy to have the number  place by every program.  

I would do that and I would also  put an index in the front and under  each agency  that define underneath their  your services,  the organization but I think the  location and the contact information  is great. With giving me  heartburn looking  at this name just one of these that  is in Southeast Volusia,  just one. There is none,  not one. We want to talk about  services to our clients and  our citizens and  Stuart Marchman -- what do we do  about this? 

I think what we will have to  do is work with the agencies to  find out what it would take to achieve  that. What are the missing? Is that  the space, the  funding requirements for outreach?  We will take a look you pointed  out some  very good [ Indiscernible ] will  look at that and you will find out  from these folks what is the plan  to cover the entire county.  I'm not so sure that there's not  some other holes  there to. Without seeing these locations  I think there might be some others.  Let's take a look  at that.  

Throws millions of dollars that  we appropriate  to agencies and nonprofits can we  not make it a requirement that all  of hours is countywide are  covered  somehow because --.  

It may be along the lines of  transportation to  those places [ Indiscernible ] are  there ways we can get you there?  Let's take a look at that as well.  Even ourselves we have some services  I would like to have a building,  a certain area we haven't been  able to get  there. We will take a look at it  from all angles because your point  is well taken we need to be able  to cover all these  areas and we will take a look we  are not privy to what their caseload  and their work is from each area  so we will talk about that than  like I say if transportation is  an issue that might be the first  step to make sure they can get there  and if the workload sucks we would  be asking the  question well, maybe it's better  to move the service closer to  the people. Very good point and  I will have Donna work with the  agencies to come up with that.  

And funding when we go through  this [ Indiscernible ] funding when  I was on [ Indiscernible ] that  was my question. When they go  for funding they use all of our  ZIP Code you know how that goes  they use hours of code to  apply and receive grants but then  the question was always so where  are you and  3216 A where you are in the  Southeast corridor and it has been  through the years  withdrawing from the southeast to  the point there's nothing there  anymore and is not acceptable and  I think we've got to make that dad  with the agencies and with our funding  that we represent the entire county  and all of that is in and if they  want continued funding -- there  you go we look at the scoring in  the criteria. We  need to make it a priority for our  citizens and I am going to watch  that a little further. That  being said this  is really great, this is a really  good piece the at how they can find  anything in the location the services.  Thank you.  

Ms. Cusack?  

Thank you Mr. chair. Thank you  Donna I know that this is a valuable  tool here and that was one of the  reasons why wanted to have it documented  as to what we have available  here. Now [ Indiscernible ] if you  look at would be don't happy happy  documented tell us where we are.  I think when we get everybody's  input we will have a much  better document we're going to be  be able to utilize this because  we can tell our  citizens where the services are  available get a host you will have  to plug those  holes in the first thing to do is  to get it documented us where we  are and I think this is a  great beginning and is a good document  because we need to know what's available  to our citizens. Thank you so much  for this draft and I  won't be here but you all make sure  it happened  -- happen. I would like to have  a copy of that because there is  still work to be done in behavioral  health services.  

[ Indiscernible - low volume  ]  

Absolutely. Thank you so much  Mr. chair.  

Is there a vote to  accept this?  

This is just an overview we  will take the information and she  will put it into the documented  we will show you when we  are done.  

With that then we will go to  item 18. This is going to be  deputy attorney I'm guessing is  going to lead this.  

This  is the -- I don't even know what  it is I'm just not wanting to say  it.  This is  [ Indiscernible ] impact  fees schedule.  

Based on counsel's direction  at the last meeting I have  drafted the [ Indiscernible ] ordinance.  Mr. Irving had taken you through  a vote  by vote at the end of his presentation  we transcribed what each one of  your votes were to make sure that  I properly placed the language into  the  code. Primarily we adopted the  fee schedule at that forth in the  docket study.  The ordinance will take effect March  4 2019 90 days after  this hearing. You  asked for a cost adjustment we  used the DOT production  price index no less than  3% no more than 8% of that production  pricing will not take effect until  March 4  21. The first year the impact fees  will be collected at 35% of that  set  forth table beginning March 4,  2020 they will be collected at 100%.  We provided  for the [ Indiscernible  ] fees seven years after the final  certificate of occupancy the or  20 years from the date the credits  are granted whichever  is later.  To address impact fees that are  currently on the books we provided  for  seven years from March  4, 2019 for any impact fees  that were on the books prior to  January 1, 2000. The remainder of  the letters in the code D  through L are all  existing provisions that we just  reorganized and renumbered in order  to have it fit in with the  new ordinances presented and we  recommend approval.  

This is a public hearing and  two people have requested to speak  first Strickland. --  Can Strickland.  

[ Indiscernible - low  volume ] This was ignored for 15 years.  No matter how flawed the hidden  study was  the most recent studies as we need  to  significant increase. To protect  her large campaign contributors  by implementing this in increments  at the same time you're stating  this will not help in our  future needs it will not be enough  that is a  true statement however the tax appears  very tired of subsidizing the very  profitable projects of the  very wealthy increasing fees the  maximum today we please the residence  very much. Is not there will be  little  chance of [ Indiscernible ] passing  it much to the dismay  of staff Mr. Akers we do still have  standing to vote  on this asset sales tax increases  of there. I'm asking date please  represent the residence today and  in  the future.  >> 
     John Nicholson .  

[ Indiscernible - low volume  ] I whittled my question down to  about seven.  First of all I would like to thank  you for indexing Daytona Beach  17 years  and rollback [ Indiscernible ] we  don't ever want to have that again.  Secondly I'm glad you're doing the  two years because hopefully it will  spur some of those developers to  build now while we are doing this  little correction in the stock market  so one the houses are they  cannot be unbuilt. Third  that we set  aside land that all the roads can  be widened easily without having  to purchase. [ Indiscernible  ] built a road to nowhere it was  nothing but farms and  the  Everglades. Now is a bumper-to-bumper  parking lot there's no room to grow  there's no room to put in mass transit  those people are stuck forever.  Let's build so that  if we ever get to  Tampa or [ Indiscernible ] we can  do  it well. Before zones any method  of disbursement of funds this is  directly tied to the halfpenny  sales tax because you are going  to lower impact fees. I know  you are voting to raise  now but the halfpenny sales tax  comes through you're going to have  to lower them and the  question is who what when where  and how. You don't have a mechanism  to tell us the voting residence  how much lower the impact fees.  You are talking about now is reading  that were not telling us how much  are going to. It depends  on a whole series  of things. [ Indiscernible ] we  don't show what they are going to  be. The cities were supposed to  give you a list you were supposed  to have a list to determine how  much you're going to project is  wanted apparently you also have  to we  don't know.  The disbursement  what happens at the city of Daytona  Beach? We are always any  --  getting shafted. We raise the money  we vote for it and we don't get  anything in return. Solution forever  we raised $8  million and we got back 600,000  that was it. Devolution forever  we just have we got no money  for that. I'm in the process of  counting the money up for echo.  We do not trust the county to  provide by what they are supposed  to  be doing so I'm very concerned about  the halfpenny sales tax and what  comes and who pays for it. Remember  the lotto for the school [ Indiscernible  ] there's a lot of them that come  out then thinking changed in the  way. There.councils in the future  I'm asking you when you do it make  sure it's firm Thank you.  

Thank  you John. 
     Anymore cards? I have  no other cards of anyone wishing  to speak on this  issue so without objection we are  closed to public hearing portion  of  this counsel.  

A point of  information, Jamie I'm looking at  the ordinance itself and it appears  to be correct but on the front page  on 18-one of the  actual agenda the third  paragraph says second sentence credits  created prior to January 1 2000  must be used within 70 or of the  creation date should that not in  fact be from March 4 2019?  

 Yes ma'am.  

I want to make sure that we  correct that.  

The agenda item is written it's  a matter of  record that [ Indiscernible ] since  March  4, 2019.  

I can't correct it once  it's published. It is a  mistake on the agenda item that's  the best I  can do.  The ordinance is correct the  agenda item has incorrect language  in and I don't know up a methodology  to correct an agenda item once it's  published if there's a way I will  most certainly do that.  

That's what I was  getting at .  

Is going to be a point  of confusion.  

[ Indiscernible - multiple  speakers ]  >> The ruling part of this  will be what the ordinance says  right?  

I understand  [ Indiscernible ] concern if there  is a way to correct this  I will.  

Is up to  Ms. Wheeler.  

I would like to move forward  to make a motion to adopt the ordinance  2018-20 repealing and  replacing the [ Indiscernible ]  Road impact fee  schedule.  

 Second.  

Motion [ Indiscernible ] to approve  the ordinance  18-20 repealing  replacing the moral impact  fee schedule. Just a couple  of comments, there's no one up here  that is doing anything  that even [ Indiscernible ] is trying  to take care particular people other  than those residence who  we represent. The only  beneficiaries of this are going  to be -- actually they are  not beneficiaries the only people  who suffer with the going to be  the people who  by  and build because all of these impact  fees are going to be reflected directly  to  the homebuyer, reflected directly  to the businesses  that build, the grocery stores,  the  shopping areas which means that  all of us are going to be impacted  by increase cost because those costs  of business going to be passed on  to us. We are the consumer  of that. The developers  and builders test these fees along  they don't pay them so it's not  benefiting anyone other than the  revenue that's going to be raised.  I had a rough estimate  done as a guesstimate it anything  that 70% of us who live in  Volusia County has never paid a  single impact fee. Think  about that, those that have never  paid an impact fee are some of the  loudest one complaining about people  going forward paying the impact  fee but  we haven't . The house was built  to move into it was built 20, 30  years ago, 40, 50, six no impact  fees. I thought I would put that  out there is remind  us that those that will paid for  the month going forward.  Mr. Patterson?  

Thank you Mr. chair I was  in Tallahassee the organizational  session listening to the speaker  of the house and  he made a comment that  surprised me that there isn't a  single newspaper in the state  of Florida [ Indiscernible ] it  has to do with affordable housing  and right now  the homebuilders  did [  Indiscernible ] came and stated  that about 25% of the cost of every  home is just a government fees and  impact fees. The speaker in  a comments the legislation should  probably be looking at your sure  use of impact fees by cities  and counties and I'm just wondering  in the upcoming  legislative session somewhere in  the next two years this doesn't  come up in some type of  legislation I think we will have  to be on the watch for that also.  I should have brought that up when  John Booker was going over that.  I thought it be more appropriate with the  discussion on impact fees. You all  are going to have to be looking  for there. We will just have to  wait and see. Maybe what we are  doing here  today maybe [ Indiscernible ].  

I had a brief conversation with  [ Indiscernible ] director of Habitat  for Humanity last week and she said  before the house comes out of  the ground for someone it's about  $20,000 and  impact fees and these are the people  we want to punish or make pay  for something?  I despise impact fee that I think  it's a fair way I've said this before  I think a better way to this would  be a sales transfer tax but I  don't make  the laws and I would be  surprised Mr. Patterson if something  doesn't happen in the legislature  because pricing our houses in our  cost of government our cost  of living [ Indiscernible ] on this  is going to do is create inflation  is going to create wage increases  is going to create  more inflation ones that are going  to pay. I'm going to support what  we said that we have to  do this and we are doing what we  can do legally by law that we can  justify that we do because this  is not something is just created  willy-nilly is created [  Indiscernible ] and we have to abide  by that. Is no  other discussion any objection to  the motion? Hearing  no objection item 18 which  is the ordinance repealing  and  replacing [ Indiscernible ] Road  impact fee schedule  passes unanimous.  >> Good afternoon. Regina Montgomery  solid waste director. Before you  today is an agreement for  waste tire processing to Glover  tile recycling. Due to our current  fender notifying us that they will  be ceasing operations at the end  of this year we released a new solicitation.  We received one bid from global  tire recycling processing  fees will  be $120 per time for vehicle  size tires and 200 a ton for oversized  heavy equipment type tires.  The company will remove  the tires and they will be 100%  recycled into tire mulch and staff  would recommend  approval care  

Counsel? Is there  a motion? Motion made by Ms. post.  Seconded by Wheeler. Any objection  to the motion, any discussion?  Hearing none the motion passes unanimous.  Thank you  very much. 

[ Indiscernible - participant  is too far from  audio ]  

I'm not sure he understood that  he needed to turn in a sheet for  public participation.  >> 

[ Indiscernible - participant  is too far from audio ]  

Excuse me we  have already made the  motion seconded it and passed it  but if you want to speak on any  item on thought someone would explain  to you that you need to fill a  card out .  

[ Indiscernible - participant  is too far from audio ]  

You can speak  from there -- can't speak  from there.  

[ Indiscernible - low  volume ]  

She did not give me your  sheet for that -- for  this item and apparently they left  off the fact they wanted to be gone  item 19 -- speak on  item 19.  

We can't have  this dialogue if you would go talk  to the clerk she can explain to  you what we need to do on  the items .  

We don't have people raising  their hands to object to an item.  We have  a process and can someone explain  the process? No sir if you did you  would have filled the  card out .  

Mr. chair if the gentleman  wishes to be heard  on 19 in probably is to everyone's  benefit if you let him be heard  just on 19 Harris comments  may be directed to 20 I  think actually the action you have  taken probably supports is you tires  from what he has expressed but if  he has a I  would recommend for your record  that you let him speak briefly.  

I was going to I just now got  the card. It did not  say 419 --  for 19.  

The  gentleman said he wanted to speak  to several items but if he wants  to be to 19 now is the time.  

He is spoken  enough to know  the procedure.  

[ Indiscernible - participant  is too far from  audio ]  

They have done these tires all  over the country and they ground  them up and they make playgrounds  out of them than they've gone back  and and removes them because of  all the poisons in the tire itself  and all the things that it picked  up from the road of using it all  those years and then they decided  will be a good idea to subject our  children to anyone back in the  put motion or something like that  that was non-toxic and they used  the mulch that had not  gone through the type of things  where you do  the would and you pressure-treated  they don't want pressure-treated  either because that turned out to  be poison. That is all I have to  say about the tires are  -- *  sir.  

Thank  you sir.  >> I think Charles has filled out  enough  cards in [ Indiscernible ] that  he knows the procedures. We will  move to item number 20 -- we just  did that one. I  have 21. Was  due 20 --  let's  do 20.  

Solid waste director. Before  you today and directly related to  the previous item as a resolution  to increase the solid waste disposal  fees from 100 a ton to $126 a  ton  vehicle tires and $160 a ton to  $201 per ton for  oversized tires. This adjustment  will cover the cost of removal and  processing the tires. This will  be the first adjustment to the tire  fees in  15 years. The county policy to offer for  passenger tires free  to resident on Saturdays will remain  unchanged and staff would  recommend approval.  

I have no cards of anyone wishing  to speak and we are closed to  public  hearing. Counsel?  

 Mr. chair ? [ Indiscernible - low  volume ] 

-- Any  objection to the motion? Hearing  on the motion passes unanimous.  Now we will look to item number  21 and I see several names on  this one. 

I will introduce is there coming  up. This is an agreement with Ellie  the parking  for parking [ Indiscernible ] just  a  little background various times  the parking garage  has been managed by a private concessionaire  like this in other times and just  recently it  was in-house. The equipment that  was purchased several years ago  has run his life and we are at that  point where the equipment be changed  out and upgraded and  so it was a good point for us to  analyze should we have a concessionaire  that would handle the garage and  the service lots around the  ocean center. I'm going to turn  it over to the ocean  center folks to talk a little bit  about the advantages  of having L  easy parking -- LEZ parking .  

[ Indiscernible - low  volume ] It was time  to do something because whether  we keep managing it or somebody  else does a lot of new equipment  is needed. This agreement in essence  I call it a win-win when  imprisoning firm with national expertise  compete with three other firms for  this business. The  file pay  is roughly 600,000 a year over the  life of the  tenure contract [ Indiscernible  - low volume ] We pay about 600  save about 100 on operational costs  and as [ Indiscernible ] mentioned  they also managed a service lots  in addition to  the garage. We are  so responsible for the other parts  of operating garage the heavy maintenance,  security, patient visits things  like that. They handle all  the new revenue control systems  in the  service lots. One thing they bring  to the table is about half $1 million  in new equipment right off the  bat. [  Indiscernible ] all cancel only 30 days  notice our side their site if we  cancel within the first five years  the county just have to buy the  equipment the on is portion of whatever  might be really on the equipment.  Organization is key and that's what  a firm like [ Indiscernible ] brings  to  the table [ Indiscernible ] don't know  how much revenue  we will generate but it's going  to generate  additional revenue. Most days it  would not make sense was do that  is going to be something new  that something very good positive  is an additional revenue for us.  With the  management fee and the reduce operating  costs and increase revenue that's  what I call the win-win when  we foresee with no capital projects  you got coming up the next  five years and the regular  operational costs we don't foresee  any need to raise the restructure  at  this time. Counsel can do so at  their pleasure whenever they decide  everything looks like issue very  well for the county that's why staff  is recommending approval of  this contract.  >> 
     I really don't have any questions  I just want to go ahead and improve  [ Indiscernible - low  volume ] 

Let me just add to what Tim have  to say is we have some representatives  from [ Indiscernible ] if you have  any questions.  

[ Indiscernible - low  volume ]  >> The next 9.9 years will go better  I promise.  

[ Indiscernible - participant  is too far from  audio ]  

I was just going to ask this  enable us to keep things open  more  often. The service lots will be  open generally  every day. We haven't determined  -- the only deliverable left under  this contract one is executed is  the standard  operating procedure. We will work  out  the details . [ Indiscernible - multiple speakers  ]  

We don't want to staff that's  for sure 
     [ Indiscernible - low volume ]  

These will have walk of pay stations  so anybody can come in anytime of  day.  

Thank you.  

We are going to  have to do better on  people speaking. I can't have people  giving me cards when we are ready  to vote on the  -- something. It's putting me in  a bad position. I can only do with  what I have and I can't just what  we are doing to get a card handing  we are taking the boat on something.  If you want to speak on an issue  we should be in before the motion  is  made because now we are out of the  public  participation part. You  to know the rules you know you need  to have  it in. I'm going to let it happen  this time but not the  next time. 

[ Indiscernible - low  volume ] Before you all page that lot  it was a  dirt lot to come to us because it  was an illegal lot you are not allowed  to use that for parking in that  area and I brought that up to the  city attention and went to the CRA  for the city of Daytona Beach the  main street the away  -- CRA. The county agreed that lots  would be open to the public free  of charge when they County is not  using it [ Indiscernible ] all  I wanted to say is you had promised  the main street the RA that it would  be open to the public when you're  not using it Thank you.  

I think those issues have been  addressed and worked out.  

If I could respond to that [  Indiscernible - low  volume ] Has 35 parking spaces  in it and we separate that from  the other two which have about 700.  

I  understand that. Any objection to  the  motion? Hearing on the motion  passes unanimous -- none the  motion  passes unanimous.  

Item  22, George?  

This is here because of its size  we do it every year it  is our -- a renewal of  our agreement with various staffing  agencies to get an idea of the estimated  expenditures. The largest users  are like the ocean center for events.  The airport in for  baggage handling [ Indiscernible  ]  bridge and [ Indiscernible ] you different  laborers. There's also of course  filling positions that type of thing  through this contract.  

Anybody else?  

[ Indiscernible - low  volume ] This is the third year.  Those companies that we are  renewing with associates AUA staffing  people ready [ Indiscernible ] personnel  Daytona employment [ Indiscernible  ]  staffing solutions again this is  the final year we ask for approval  of the  contract.  

Counsel? Ms. Cusack has made  the motion to approve the renewal  agreement with associates a  year staffing people ready [  Indiscernible ] Daytona equipment,  Daytona Beach minor staffing solutions  LLC for temporary employment and  employees leasing  services 14-P [ Indiscernible ]  is there a second?  Second Wheeler, and a discussion?  Any objection to the motion? Hearing  none the motion  passes unanimous. Now we are going  to take a break until December 18  [  Laughter ] I know there  are some people here that want to  do that.  

Next up, this is our  800 megahertz [ Indiscernible ]  I just found up Kim is coming up  to the little update on this are  going to say this is a good example  of where people in the organization  and the previous counsel had  the foresight. We is coming  these upgrades and modernization  had to occur  changes in federal laws  so we began planning and we  began saving. This is something  the money has been put away as part  of our capital program  so this is  something again we have kind of  done a pay-as-you-go. We have the  money to do the project and here  we are today. We have done some  preliminary engineering work we  used the  company Omnicom which I believe  is probably here today as well.  What we are  here for I'm going to brief update  on what we've done today's and then  we are going to -- we like  to use the request for  proposal method to continue the  project on as  we move towards actually some of  the guts of the project and  we can -- can can go over with some  of those things  are. I asked her to put together  a very brief overview of where we  are at and where we  are  going.  

Kim Westberry information technology  director. Is storage that we have  a great story to tell  all the planning  that has been  going on with the project and a  discussion for the city and County  agencies and this has been going  on for years everybody is aware  of it everybody is  looking to and also in 2006 County  manager sent a letter to the city  managers think that  -- giving them an update on the  project and also giving them reimbursement  checks from a rebanding project  that have been  done earlier and made suggestions  that money aside to be able to through  the radio project that was coming  up. Also has George said  2000 -- FY  2013 you been saving for the counties  radios in the backbone and the cities  will be response pay  radio great. The consulting firm  on a calm 10  bearing time the on becomes president  and Lou Phillips the  senior consultant with Omnicom is  here today in case you have any  questions or would like them to  address anything. They were hired  in January 2018.  They came in  assessment and look for recommendations  on things that we need to do is  pretty system both for 800 megahertz  system and also for fire  a learning. Currently the legacy  radio system.fire learning calls  out to the different  fire stations. With that going away  we also needed to look at the fire  learning system and what we are  going to do with a solution there.  Part of the work they did with  the assessment with  all the county agencies, they did  site visits back they  were dispatch communication so work  wanted  to the meetings and they presented  the reports we had to report the  fire learning [ Indiscernible ]  met with the city  stated presentation [ Indiscernible  ] we've been presiding periodic  updates on the public safety  agency chief so that they are aware  of what all is going on and they  are kept -- there are very important  partnership is so basically the  recommendations that came from the  Omnicom's report was we do need  to replace the fire learning system  we need to come up with another  solution that report was more of  a longer-term plan. That is something  we will have to work on in parallel  work on the radio system. They also  confirmed to  replace our microwave system which  we  knew. They also identified two main  areas in the county that all the  agents identified the coverage  he improve one is these pretty County  which we are working  with Weiler on sharing tower with  white letters we will be  sharing cost reducing the cost to  the county. Is also in the southeast  area of the county in the Farmington  area we are looking at a couple  different locations there and we  will hopefully be bringing something  over to you all for approval to  the these plans were built on that  County property. The intent is to  be able to identify get everything  cleared as far as lining NNCC so  that we put the RFP out  that basically whoever is elected  to build the towers for us. We will  have everything ready  to go . Basically there has been  a lot of work going on but now we  are at the next step which is to  get your approval as I number 23  to support putting in  RFP out that is our next major step. If  you approve that we would be using  Omnicom we wish task order and on  the call would help us develop the  RFP which we put on the street  time likewise the procurement process  from starting to develop the RFP  all the way through contract negotiations  and orders probably about one your  process. If everything goes well,  that is a pretty standard -- this  is a very  complex project and a lot of time  and energy went. At  that point after that we go to implement  going to be a want to to  your project depending on which  system is packed  to implement plus we have to make  sure we are getting all the agencies  time to get the radios upgraded  so while we can rule out the system  maybe in the first year some  agencies meetings longer before  the all  the radios that I could extend plus  you will keep the legacy system  in place fire  learning is. That is where we are  at  this time. I would like to acknowledge  the participation from the city  has been great and the  county agencies chief Jeff Smith  from fire services has been great  and he has worked with the Fire  Chief in city Fire Chief meeting  and talking to them about the fire  alerting and other things care  

[ Captioners transitioning ]  
     
>> To people who want to speak on  this. Thank you. John Ferguson, I am here on behalf of Motorola. Motorola  supports the recommendation of staff .  Motorola uses the same technology for the statewide system that they  run. As well as for 33 other counties. They look  forward to the opportunity to bring  you the proposal I can give you  the best product with the  best service. During  a transition. As well  as a best price. You guys have  the opportunity, all of the benefits  from a competitive process.  

Thank you John. >> 
     [ Indiscernible ] >> We have been of  a proud partner for over four years. We want  to thank you so much for taking  the time over the last several months  to be with us so we can update you on what we see and learn, and help  you learn what's going on.  On the system that we helped manage. What that impact is on the daily lives of the residents of Volusia County. It's very dear  to our hearts. As you are he  -- aware, there are two  options layout for the county. First  of the matter, the second one -- there was  many reasons to support looking at a Mike a  migration from a we have to the  latest. We support that fully, but we want  also for you to look at what that  consultant reports. They have that as a second alternative. We would like to ask you for the  decision is made, that you have  staff look  at that and give a direction to  the consultant, then let's see what  that negotiation will look like.  You have nothing to lose. Whatsoever. You always have it on  the table. That is never taking  away from it. There is no time  lost it there's no anything. It's  an effort that has already been  there. There's a lot of good compelling reasons. If  the considerations that you might  want to look at migration is is  the -- visible by transition --  simplified transition. This is not  something that is Volusia County. Over half the counties  in Florida have chosen this. The technologies, even though there  was a standard, behind the seas  that vaccines may not always work and play well with each other. Is the same reason why if you are  a cell company and your cell phone  may be dropped. The things that  run the network epically are all  the same brand of equipment. The  reason that a smooth  migration, and the biggest thing  we look at, , whatever  we decide, we stand with  you. We stand to support you. We're looking forward to that effort,  and we stand right there, and  we will get in there and we will  have the winning solution for you.  How to thank you all for your time  and your consideration. 

Thank you. 

I  wanted to ask staff. Are we in a desperation system  here where we have to move fast  on something, or are we -- the reason  I'm thinking is I rather report  to and that was an option. To look  at and up grade -- up trade with the current vendor.  It seems like there's not a lot  of investments with the current  vendor. To make a total  change over. There's going to be  a lot of that will be redone. It will be more costly. 
     If we were to go with another vendor,  I am also thinking of the cities  that will be involved in this during  the expense. I am asking -- are we in a bind where we need  to go to  RFP right away, or do we need  an  option?  Had there been factors that would  have kept them from suggesting going  with the current vendor, I like  to see what the extension  with the current vendor would look  like personally. Before we go out  to RFP.  Are we  happy with the current vendor I  guess is where I'm going with that.  

You have several questions, the  urgency comes from the fact that  the -- many of the parts and pieces  of the current system are not going  to be serviced much longer. I think some -- >> 
     However the current service provider which is from international as  admitted to us and continued providing support for the systems in the  next few years. Is variable to  get parts.  >> There is -- there is not a neck urgency but  there's responsible urgency. I think  that's where yet. This is been a  work of a lot of planning. They  have looked a lot submit that is  a good vehicle to use if they have different ideas or  he and it's a request  for proposal. They have different ways that they  want to look,  you can know that in. The idea is that I think it  is the end product that we are most  concerned about. What  would be the long-term effects , how long will he guarantee the work, how long will they guarantee upgrades?  How will they handle the upgrades?  There is a lot to this. From when the system was originally  put in, now you're talking about  a much more software driven  system. It's the last very long  these days. I  really think --  you are looking at a time.  You put money into a system , or do you look at the whole system? That's what the group looked at. I think the decision , all the players  that they talked about and hope  for the Sheriff's office they all  felt the RFP, so you get a  proposal of what they like to do on the  table. For us to look at. It was  the way to go. That is where we are at today. It is different than a hard bed.  You would line out very specific  items, and then  that's different. They have some  flexibility on their site. We are asking them to help  us right it so it is broad. It's a neutral party that does  work in this area. They  can make sure that we get what we  need, and the suppliers were vendors can use their brilliant people to come  up with a great system  for us. That is where  we are at and that's why it's asked  to be done this way.  >> Thank you, in listening in  all of this, how big do you think  this contract will be? Do we have  any ballpark of what this will  look like? 

We have budgeted $20 million for our side, and we  estimated 6 million on the city  side for the radio equipment. 

 This is about a $20 million contract  we are looking at. The Mac right.  -- 

Right. I can't imagine that would  put a 20 million contract that --  out to RFP.  We are looking for an auditor for  transparency and accountability.  We are going to say we won't put  one of the largest contracts that  we are looking at out on the public  marketplace? The flipside of that  is, I heard -- I  heard what you're saying the  migration factor, that's a very  strong piece to bring to the table. I would think that in the open  market, and this process of  migration factor it would be a good  variable. Probably in your favor  in the contract and that is the posture I  would expect in a fair bit. I could not justify without putting a contract like  this on the market. I can't. We talk about planning ahead , we started saving this money in  physical year 13, 14. The meter decision based on  our future. To start putting cash  away on a cash basis for  this project. There has been a lot of visioning  and a lot of leadership throughout  the years, but I see a lot  of heads nodding, identifying issues  and funding them. Not to put a burden on  our citizens and keep it all at  once. This started in 1314 . In July 2016, letters were sent  out of the city managers. 
     They made a really big deal about  this at the time. You better be putting it  away because this is what is coming  in a couple of years. We have to  update our system. They have had -- from  July 2016, this update was coming. Some of these checks were pretty  big. I have copies of all of them  in what was sent. I remember that  specifically. This is a lot of heavy lifting. A commitment 
     to stay on a cutting edge of technology. As fast as technology  is changing, as soon as we get this  in will be a generation behind.  It just moves that quickly. We need emotion  on this? 

We need direction, and emotion  to put out.  They're going to help us right this  task assignment. 

What you need right now is just  to going to contract for it.  

I'll move the motion ,  to enter a contract with a consulting  group to provide consulting services to assist the  modernizing of the county's 800  megahertz radius is. 

Motion made. We will take additional comments , I think you sounded a perfectly. If anything it  will give the ability migration to that individual, because it's  not like  a hard contract. It's not  asking for a bid, is asking for  a proposal on how to do it. They  will help right the RFP.  As  long as those items can be included to the migration or through a different process  we will then have a better idea  is a 20 million, or  16 million? That's what it  gets us. We get them for someone  else taking our information and  putting it out for bid. >> This is just to say that in  this area of public safety communications , obviously  the upgrades are desperately needed,  and again  as we update, we will continuously be  further behind in technology. It's  very important that we do these  updates, they are very important  that we have the best technology  and the brightest technology because these are lifelines knowledge  for public safety officers, but  for the citizens. This is an area  that I do not feel we should wait on, or any of that we should be moving forward every way possible to keep up with  it. I can say I  got my first pack in 1992  from international. My  heart is with you , but I feel this is an excellent  opportunity for you to put in and  provide the best technology,  the best that you can provide, and  let's make sure that we are providing  the best for our counties. Thank you.  

I want to be the  Lone Ranger, because what I'm  looking at this investment that we have here,  I see are more advantages to negotiating with her current vendor. In the long run I know need to be looking out  after the taxpayers. This is not my first time at this.  Years ago when I was on the Council back in 95 to 98, we were going  through this process. It  was pretty intense. It lasted for quite a while.  Even after we purchased the equipment. I  think right now the best place for  us to be is to negotiate with our  current provider, if it doesn't  work out, you can go  to the negotiating process with  us. 
     Using the only provider. That's  the substitute amendment. 

You going to have to walk  me through this one Pat. It yields to  the substitute amendment.  

Any discussion on the  substitute amendment? The motion  has been made to continue negotiating with the current provider to provide  the services with Omnicom.  

 I have a discussion on the Second  Amendment. The Mac that's why I  said that. 

I have comments  to make, not necessarily on  this motion.  >> Clarify that  on the consulting group we are paying  the 26 six for the services of the consulting  group? Would we not be  paying the same amount with intercom international as  part of the Second Amendment to  work 

I think you would change the  scope a little bit weird  

It be the  general amount. For my suggestion or comment  on this, it would be , if we are paying this to  consult anyway. Why not  just paid for the consultant to  provide . That is our proposal  for staff. It would be to to help  us right the  RFP. It's  intended to be broad.  So they can take  whatever path that they want to  offer us. 

This is my comment on the substitute  amendment.  >> I guess we to ask him when we need  Omnicom.  If they want to negotiate . We would have to change the scope  a little bit, because one is writing  a RFP.  The second would  be taking a look with only looking at one system and  how that would be migrated.  

County standpoint, we  basically pay the same amount to  stay here and then additionally  pay that again later. 

Was the point of  that really?  >> I think we need to proceed as indicated what we wanted to do in the beginning. I think what we have to do is  make sure that we have  this RFP  developed  in such a way that everything  we need to have in their is identified. I think it has been discussed here, I think we need  to go forth and vote this motion. 

I am going to have  to say, you're working with someone and  not known is really what is out  there from someone else. 

I don't any value, I  don't think this is something that  should put a value of $2000, because  you don't know what you can have  from a proposal from someone else  that can be far exceeding what you  would be negotiating. You know what the price of the  alternative would be. That is the  purpose of the RFP, I'm going to  vote against  it. There's no other  discretion?  

I  want to close on the substitute  amendment. I want to close and makes  a point here, because I think you  all are talking, you look at page  4 advantages of the system upgrade of this is from Omnicom County,  the county is not caught in the  middle of the system terminal programming  in any arising technical issues. This communication on the current  system during the cutover. It can reduce capital costs by $2.11 million . The produces cost  of technical staff and in  components of network and system  management. The transitions and  cuts over NAB 25 and as directly to  the course. 
     The reason arenas is the people  are out there listening and we are  talking about reading the money. 
     I don't think we lose anything. 
     They don't know your cost. They  may say by doing that you might say to  a half million dollars. It's  far superior, that is what we  don't know. To spend the time you  can in fact link the process by trying to negotiate  a migration and get to  the point to where it's not acceptable  and it won't work then you go out  to do the RFP, and  now you're back  restarted. If it will save two and half million  dollars, it will come from their  proposal that they make when they  submit to the RFP. That will be  up to staff and us to decide . Is  it better to go with what they said still  meeting what we want, or is it better  to go with the other company? I  don't buy into it. There's no other  comment. >> They  are assuming that we won't be negotiating with  our current vendor. Nobody knows  that there's too many variables  when you put a RFP  out.  When the contract of the current 
     contract. I  just can't justify Councilman Patterson that putting  a contract this big house on the  open market for transparency, I  just can't.  

Okay. All for the substituted motion , motion fails. My count is 5-2. We have a motion  on the floor which was to accept the 26 of the contract. I have a motion  and second for further discussion . Any  objections to that motion?  

Aye.  >> With  one objection to the motion with  one objection the motion passes  6-1. Good discussion. On  the item. 
     Item 24, the number I've been looking  for.  

Good afternoon, we have two items to tell you about  today. On December 20 at 9 AM,  the county counsel cut the  ribbon on the newest segment of  the trail and a very. That event will take  place at the intersection of Donald  E Smit and the very plantation Boulevard.  The trail expense advocate and to  the existing trail near Detroit  Paris. The 1.2 mile section cost  the club approximately $848,000 to construct.  As a first trail portion using  central funds. The county's economic  develop has produced a publication called today's work  hours.  As a, Schmidt in Volusia County.  The addition shows the capability  of graduate and highlight partnerships and educational institutions. This  report will soon be available online  at Florida business.org, it will  be distributed to our economic partner. At  the December 18th counsel meeting,  we will have the results of the  the need to drive which was November  11 to the 25th our  crews are just finishing up the  pickups from the 115 the County  and other public agency locations throughout the county.  That is it for my update. You have  any questions? 

Thank you. Will move to  public participation, tell me I  have one card. Terry Simmons,  I know you're here earlier. I apologize  for this morning. Thank you for being here. I am the executive director of  the West  Chamber of Commerce. The chamber provides opportunities  for advancing conversations on improving  the business growth and sustainability. To facilitate this we will  hold our first economic form on  January 24. I believe you  met my close friend U.S. D.O.T. Secretary  Anthony Fedele. He'll be returning for this forum, he will think about  infrastructure. We hope to facilitate this session with all the regional partners. 
     On May 22 we will be holding our  second annual first responder reward. 
     I hope to have your attendance at  this event. Hopefully you can  mark your calendar May 22.  It may be back, and maybe build  on the center. We are working on  that. Mac that date was  January 22?  

Generate 24th. And  May 22 for the first responder valor  award. 

Is going to be morning, I'm  working for him -- with him. Someone from the county will have  someone from transportation of some  sort. Thank you. >> It may make  you happy. They are on the beach. For two and half weeks we had  no one sleeping on the beach. Until last night, it was the  first person. We have three weeks without anyone  on the beach. Two and  half weeks with nobody. It is in  the 40 fourth -- 40 foot stretch. There were marks in the middle  of the road. We are down  100 from the beach. Secondly , would you please when you're doing the sales tax,  nobody knows will go anywhere. , This  portion will go, this portion whatever you decide it will be. We know that's what it is. It's going to come basically from the echo funds. We do not  know that it will be taken to something, please  make it clear that you can move  the money and whatnot. Lastly  the ocean center went to it 20 years ago.  They came before the CRA. I knew  what they were talking about. The  land that he was talking about,  it wasn't even in consideration  back then. The parking spaces were  just applied in the last couple  of months yet it was the old Fernwood  Hotel.  It was there, and nobody knew it  was going to be cut down. Was a  dirt lot with a three foot fence  around it. Actually two lots at the time.  One was paved. We put the new building,  and the other one is now a paved  parking lot west of the ocean center.  It was that lot on the auditorium that were the  only two lots in existence. They would discuss it , because it literally was on Main  Street. We could use those for events. That is exactly what it was referring  to. I don't mind charging. You really have to in that area. Electrical is the way to go. I would like us to be clear when  we are talking about something. Thank you, have a good day.  

 We will close the public participation  and go to George. 

Just one item, but was  one point. We are  now referring to that parking lot that is near completion. 
     We need to come up with a name that  happens to fall midblock sometimes  we have named them on the block  with the street  that aligns with it. Maybe our  next meeting we can come up with  an idea on the Council , because we will probably be able  to park people in their before the  end of the year. 

I can set out  something with the street name.  It falls midblock area  John might have the actual information. 

 This hotel lies between winners  drive which is the road to the south and to the north .  Of Longwood. On to give you heads up that I  think we should try to put on the  next agenda. We can give it  a name.  We refer to it to the Argosy just  as a project name. I don't think  that's what you want to do. And  that's it. I know  we tackled some tough things today. We  had a lot of good open discussion. I appreciate the hard work on several of these  items today. It was a very  good day. 

I want to return for a moment to the discussion about how -- Halifax Hospital . They argued that they could affect  on the provision of services at the jail. I didn't  agree with that premise. They said  they had been providing services  outside the district to the schools . Other mental health services for a long time without objection. I want to clarify that  is when we had a basis for arguing. The case had to do with the provision and course of construction for  the facility outside.  It's a substantial difference. Those are  the arguments.  The county was well served  by agreeing to weigh-in on  local agreement parking. The other thing more substance , I sent you a memo with  a copy to the Sheriff regarding the  revision 10 and it's effect  upon us. Largely for the purpose  of pointing out that  the Supreme Court cannot decide  whether or not  the amendment had prospective  of our retroactive act , they said the  issues to be decided in a postelection  challenge, and pointed  out some cases where they have decided  upon one side or the other. I  think it's appropriate for us and  County to initiate a postelection challenge to determine whether or not it  affects the Lucia 
     or overrides section 1C  which says it may be established by charter  which should be adopted amended  or repealed upon  electors in a special election call  for that purpose. If we are going to  do this, we should undertake to  do so. Soon. On the other hand I think  we submit that it something that would be helpful  to clarify the status of the law in regards to the charter voters.  On the other hand  I think we owe it to the  voters to assume that  it will go into effect for purposes  of planning and can you.  To engage  in transition planning. I think  we are capable of doing both intellectually , and otherwise. Another Sheriff has some  staff in the room. And some of them  are optimal for transition planning. They were capable of working to provide for that transition. There's other  transitions to be considered an  elected task collector being  noteworthy. I  think it's litigation  that draw interveners as  we did last time so it will be a case of  some note , is likely to be cited as the first district of Supreme Court. LC any particular  downside to us doing that. With the possible exception of  the following. I personally don't think it's a downside. 
     There is some viewpoint I said this is some of you are  not as early of you, on behalf of  the clerks that it would change not  only the status of a comes into  effect, it would change the status of the the fifth. The clerk  status would perform the functions  that title removed from her  at the time. I don't agree with that point  of view. Under the plain text of the constitutional amendment it says it  would read -- read as amended. Unless otherwise provided by special law should ask is that you exit the shield Fisher. Our charter is not only a charter,  but is a special law. While it may  have an effect upon the clerk  and other counties, it doesn't affect the status of our clerk.  That doesn't mean that the mother's I'm  not speaking of our clerk and some  others might not disagree. There may be a litigation  that might be made part of this  case. On the other hand the clerks on if you have that  point of view, I don't think we  will avoid that litigation because  we don't ring this case. I think it would concur anyway. They are not given an opinion I'm  not certain what they think  their counsel have not. I think the presumption is a  constitutional amendment only has  the prospective effect that the  argument that we will make this  case that it does have only  a prospective effect.  As you see fit to authorize will go forward  because of the ultimate interest of repose to include markers for Lucius  and Bailey . If we're going to do it we  should try to bring in to the  case expeditiously. You're  looking for direction for us to  speak proceed with filing  a legal challenge as well  as proceeding with the fact that  the transition  either way in the event. 

We will will do that but  I don't need authorization for that. We need to work on  both lanes. 

 I don't agree with us moving forward  on that.  I think the majority of the voters voted on this and improved it.  I think the county money  and energy would be better spent having the voters decide  on anything, we decide on whether  or not the charter is in mine with  2020 Lucia County in  the future. I am not in  favor of us setting spending the time and energy on  this area the state voted for it. If you  look at the voting it was 53%. What if it was. Would have to be a single issue.  We don't all people will vote for  what for. In office of Veterans  Affairs which we have. The way they bundled this, we don't  know the people vote in a  particular way. When talking about  this the other day, I think this  is something we need to go ahead  and try. 
     We will move forward. >> Any  objections to this motion or discussion? 

Opposed. Any  other objection to the motion?  No. >> If  you like to discuss, we can us. I am  in support of the motion. If this had been an issue in  Volusia County we just had our charter , and people  were very specific in what  they wanted to see in our  charter. There were changes that they wanted  to have made in the charter. Is  open hearings and there is many  opportunities for both to be engaged in the process. In every issue that was  presented to us as citizens of Volusia  County, was a part of that process. I believe that we go forward with this it  will indicate  where going to move forward , but we're also  moving forward with the implication  that what we have before us really  to  that amendment. We  can walk and dance at the same time  there. We are sure what we're doing what we need  to do to provide the citizens . Every single object or  subject matter. That's why I supported. 

I'm not sure  our citizens really understood the  cost that this is going to  on Kerr. This is not a separate thing, it  was tethered with the veterans thing.  I think this clouded the issue.  I've talked to a lot of people who  said they want to support the  veterans. It was much more of that  than it was the other. I think this  will give us a chance to see how the legislature -- the courts will feel about that. I think if it had  been presented clearly, the cost  of it -- what this would've involved, I'm  not sure it would have passed. We clearly pointed out  it was an opportunity was recently for the charter review. That was not there topic  at the time. It was a burning issue  at the time. I support this obviously, thank  you. 

Any other discussion? 

All in favor of the motion say  Aye. .  

Aye. .  

The motion passes 6-1. Now we can go  back.? I want to ask a question about  another issue.? Okay, sure. 

I wanted  to ask you, if you would talk to  us a few minutes about the  lawsuit that juvenile justice.  Not the lawsuit is a much the, I just need to have  that on the record.  

I just have to have it on the  record I will not accept it in an  email. 

Did you want to bring  the salt over here? >> The district rule last week that  the county I think  -- there  is counties that had opted out of  secure detention system. Therefore they were not part of the legislative -- compromise  the college. -- They  call it.  I will stick with that at the moment. Legislative amendment involving the tension  that passed a few  years ago. They had no reason to  give up the litigation.  They were not achieving any cost  savings. They  were unaffected by it. They continued  with the litigation. And what he  is saying is, they one. . She is  also entitled to and told you  personally in that for a time, we continued to make  good faith payments thinking we might be able to work  through a possible compromise. Councilmember Cusack said 
     that  optimism is not well-founded. 
     Well, she was right because the  only money that we got out of the  deal was that is what we held. Had we withheld sooner  as Councilman urged that we  do so, we would have  added on to what we  saved because the only money received  was that when  we withheld. We should have began  withholding probably six or nine  months sooner. I don't recall right  now. We withheld a couple  million dollars. The legislature and affirmative compromise, they do not pursue  funds ahead. Had we began withholding sooner, we might have increased our savings. The amount that we  gave up was considerable. 

 It was about 10  Dash eight. 

10-8. When they say you can  dance and walk at the same time,  listen to her. When you stand on  your tippy toes to do something,  do it.  

Well taken. >> All right. I just had one closing comment. There was a member  of the public that had reached  out about a family in need, and that  matter was taken care of, but I  just wanted to point out through  the rest of the general public -- there are many County services and various things -- lots of resources here. That  are available. On social media , email, and various other communications . I see people saying this person  is a need or this person is a need. I see all these go fund me accounts  and everything is being created,  but -- if  there's a situation that you  come across in our community, because  after all is our unity. Feel free  to reach out. >> [ Captioners transitioning ] 
>> Our community,  please feel free to reach out. Because there is help available. And I would just say, kudos to the woman who  reached out. Especially be on the holidays. 
     And please take an  opportunity to reach out to someone  who needs something. And that is  all I have.  

 Ms. Mueller? 

 Last week  several of us attended the legislative  conference in Tampa for the Florida Association for counties . It was great. But I will tell you the first morning,  it was nothing, but talking about  water issues. There  was water strategy. And how important, as a state, we need to come together  and work on these issues. We have  this Florida state  Association of Counties. Just  before voting in November there  was $1 million towards the feeding  amendment number one. And it just showed you the unification  on how powerful it is to have the  entire counties does make the entire  --  how powerful the entire counties  and state  can be. They do not think there are any studies on what we  actually need . And it is time that we have this  conversation with the legislators.  We need to be fighting for this. This is something that is here. And it is part of the economy,  tourism and Florida. We need to be fighting it. And it was a very effective instrument, for any studies that  we have. And anyone can pull up the  conferences that we had. And  also in the newspaper today, there  was an article on  the ZIP Code 32114 . It was not alarming because I  already knew. But I  do not know, Donna can you come  up here? I do not know it was probably eight  months ago there was that first  -- someone came  out and started talking about that  we were 44th in health issues . And that alarmed me so much and  I did not know what the problems  were. So I contacted Donna. I contacted  Jodi . And we started working together  on pulling people together. What  are we missing? And we had quite  a few -- I think we had three meetings  with many different organizations . Everyone is pulling so hard but  we're missing something. And  the problem in District 3 -- as far is nutrition , HIV and it is an alarming situation. We are working on, trying  to find solutions . Where can we get the message out  -- there are some services that  are not being used. And Donna has been instrumental  on working with me. And with this  group. And from the health department  and everything else. I do not know  where to go. But we are working  on it . We have been working on and trying  to find the link and where we can  reach out. And to provide more services  in this area. To start changing  those statistics. Do you have  any comments?  

I do.  In a recent meeting last week, 
     we did get together with the health  department to  -- and we are talking about doing  some work here in the county. And  we talked about as a follow-up,  to the community health, and Florida Hospital has to  [Indiscernible ] . And so the health department has  to do a plan. So we are trying to  tie all of this together. And obviously we will ask you to  kick off the first meeting. And  in addition,  we want to talk about the social  determinants. And that is being  hunger, housing, homelessness and  income. Those have to be the priorities.  If they do not, we will miss the  basic needs.  And these are the problems throughout  the county. So we are asking, as we go through this process,  to look at, County  health rankings. Trying to find  out where we are weak. And where  we can pick low hanging fruit  if you will. And  see a change in the dialogue.  >> I want the press to know that we  are looking at this. We are trying  to address it. We are very aware  of this. And it is something  that we need to tackle. And we are trying every different  avenues. We do have a conversation, and  I think in the last meeting that  we had, we had  15 different organizations. And  the conversation will continue.  And we are hoping to bite this elephant  one bite at a time. And to do whatever it  takes. And I just wanted to bring  that up. Thank you.  

Just a comment  on that. I read that news article and I  did my own analyzing. And this county has eight times the depths due  to AIDS. And you can see the number of married people in the area is half of what  the average is. So you have  to look at all of those specters. Looking at  the poverty level. We need to  make sure that they are getting  health and education, as much as  we can. And some of those factors, you know -- what can you do on  educating people on HIV and that  kind of thing? And I do believe  it has to be there. It is alarming  when you look at it. So much so  that I took a picture of it. So  that I would have it today. The  death rate by homicide is four times that of the rest of Volusia  County . 

I even reached out to the pastor alliance in  the group.  When we find out some of the information  that we need, that I am willing  to go around to each search. And  share our thoughts.  Where are concerns.  To see if we can address this one  at a time. It has to start. I mean  there is no doubt about it. This  is not okay. 

Recognizing it is the first step. And thank you for bringing  this up, and having Donna come up  earlier. And this shows, what is there. I am glad that we are on top of  it. We can always say, there  is another clinic somewhere. Or  maybe it is -- there are all kinds of things . We need to keep this in our thoughts  as we set our objectives. I think  it should be on the priority list  for next year.  

Ms. Cusack? 

I just want to say , we are  in crisis as it relates to  mental health. I think what we have done  today, is to begin to identify sources  of treatment. But we have to do  better at educating. And identifying, if you will, those  individuals, that have problems  with mental illness  today we are treating our mental  ill in jail or on the streets. And this is unacceptable for our  society in which we live. We have  many folks who were homeless. And with the homeless  I would venture to say 75% of those  individuals have problems with mental  illness. So we are missing the bar when it comes to -- we used to  say, we are dropping the ball. So my thoughts  today, dive deep. Look at these issues. Dealing with the problems today,  mental illness and homelessness. So we can try to eradicate some  of the lack of services. That  we see. >> Regarding the homelessness, I know  there is concrete trucks going  out to [Indiscernible ] .  I cannot wait to see a wall go up. 

I think it will make a difference. Maybe we do not understand that  today but it is going to make a  difference in the quality of life.  

I want to talk about, retirement of  a person who is very important to us in our society. Who has made such a difference. And that person is  Honorable. Peggy  Kurtz . In her term as  a justice, which will and at the  end of the year --  which will end at the end of this year.  I would like to send her a letter. She has been first in many efforts. I was hoping that I could propose to  you that we would do a letter of  congratulations to her for her services  to the citizens of Florida. As serving as a Supreme Court justice. >> I thought there were two more that  were retiring?  

There are three that  are retiring.  >> She is the only woman and the only  person of color. I think we could  do a congratulatory old letter for  all of them. But I do want to include judge [Indiscernible  ] .  

I think we should  do all three of them. With a special  notice. What about a proclamation?  >> I  think we could do each individually  because they are going to be celebrating  at different times.  >> I am a member of  the Supreme Court historical Society. I think this would be a great opportunity  to personally provide her with that.  

They are going to be celebrating  judge Kurtz before  that time. So if I could  pass this on to you, Mr. Chair,  to get a letter to congratulate  each of them. On behalf of the county.  >> 
     There is justice [Indiscernible  ]  who is also a woman. And there  is the other one. >> [Indiscernible -- multiple speakers]  >> Thank you. 

I  want to give some kudos if  you will,  to our staff for the excellent job  they did for the diversity and inclusion  luncheon. At the county it was very well  attended. I want to  thank all of my colleagues. Who  were there. I hope in the future, you will pick up the  torch and continue to make sure  this will happen. If  for no other reason,  do it for Joyce. This year it was  Eastside beach. And the room  was overflowing. It  was a wonderful event. I applaud the staff  are doing an excellent job. I want  each of you to know that, your manager, stole  the show. He did an  outstanding job.  He talked about diversity and inclusion. >> Mr. Dennis? >> Just a couple of things. First of all to Mr. Eckert, we  had a conversation  on the DJ that came through. I got to tell you, my  years of serving on the County Council,  if I could redo one thing, Mr.  Eckert I would redo that vote. I  apologized to him personally,  and professionally.  And to that point, since I have been on the Council  Mr. Eckert has yet to steer  this counsel wrong.  We went every challenge. That matters of substance, other than the liability issues. And those natural things  that do play out because there is so much that we  do not control. But when Mr. Eckert makes a recommendation  he prevails. And the county prevails every single  time. And because of that, that is why I support the challenge  to amendment 10 based on that. . But I will attempt to apologize. 

I want to thank you for going  into debt for 1400 hrs. 1400 hrs. -- And thank you. And make sure he gets his check  because his grandchildren the Christmas  presents. 

All 11 of them the Christmas  presents. 

Thank you for giving us a report .  Next year with their reorganization  Mr. Chair , however you reorganize us or reappoint  us, on what we look  like, -- in January. We need to do better,  we need to report back better -- and how  we are being represented outside  of the changes it is Volusia county that  re-represent . And I refer  to animal control. I do want  to have a community meeting, someplace that will detriment -- that will be well attended. >> I think we need  to contact Florida Fish and wildlife. But I am sure we can act as a good  condo what for our new animal control  director. 

That would be great .  >> I had the honor this Sunday  to present a proclamation. Dr. Lowery  and his church. His administrator kindly invited  me to lunch. And they were going  to serve roast. And I said roast is really nice , but he said we are not having roast but we are having a eight  Roast -- Roast -- we  were going to roast the pastor. But anyway this man can preach . And I mean that with  all due respect your Dr. Lowery, it was  an honor to listen to you. But what I realized, you know how  quiet he is in here? Give this man  a pulpit, and if he does not  have to share a microphone well,  hallelujah. But it was a good time. 
     We have an application, there is an opening on [Indiscernible ] that we need  to fill . And I  want to make sure that we could  appoint somebody, and who would  serve well. And this  gentleman, Mr. Costa has  applied to serve on  the DRC. There was not time to get it on  the agenda.  Mr. Chair I would like to make the  motion to appoint Frank Costa . 

The motion has been made  to a point Frank Costa 
     [Indiscernible ]  question Matt  

A  gentleman spoke to us early on. Mr. Craig McKinley. This  is the big package that we all got.  I spoke to him in length yesterday.  And he sent me an email with his  concerns. When he talked to you about the  noise, you have to understand there  is 40 acres between his home in  this venue. 40 acres.  And the venue is called the big  red barn.  And so I drove down after I spoke  to him. All he is  asking us to do, is to enforce our  current code. And to verify that this event  is permitted. Because whatever it  -- they have these  big speakers. And they have even threatened to  get bigger speakers, and put it  on the edge of his property. So when we -- he does not want to shut the  venue down . He just wants the noise to be  cut down on the weekend and that  is all he is asking for. This is based on -- [Indiscernible  ] . >>