JEFF BROWER: 
OK good morning. Everybody find your seats. We will get started in just a few seconds. Good morning. We will call the July 16, 2024 Volusia County Council meeting to order at 9:01 AM. 
 
As always, in just a minute, I will ask you to stand, that we we will start them meeting with an invocation and pledge of allegiance. At the invitation, just so you know, is open to all faith group in Volusia County. If you would like to participate in that, please send the email to kgreen@volusia.org and she will explain the all the necessary information. This morning, we have Pastor Joshua Owens with the Spruce Creek Presbyterian church port orange.  
 
JOSHUA OWEN: 
I work at District 3, I play at night. I pray for you regularly as I am a beneficiary of your work. 
Ms. Green offers me to make any announcements, I never have one. We do have vacation Bible school coming up next week. Monday, July 22, we will be starting vacation Bible school with backdrop of the Olympics. Talking to the kids about living before God, fighting the good fight, running your race, according the rules, finishing strong if you'd like to sign up for that, you can go to our website and get your kids registered and left to be able to administer to you in that way. 
 
The call to the Lord in prayer. Almighty God, our father, we give thanks for your all wise and benevolent government of the whole creation. As we seek your favor, upon our County and it government, we thank you for these County Council members and staff who work hard to keep our many municipalities, businesses, and citizens working with one another for each other's flourish and. 
 
May You bless them with wisdom to discern what is good and right in your site and the courage of faith to stand forth. May Your blessing be upon their labors, businesses and families as they give themselves in service to others. We lift up our nation, Lord, as we remember the violence perpetrated against former president truck, which claimed another man's life and left another person in critical condition. Have mercy upon those who grieve and those who are recovering -- Trump.  
 
Lead us in your everlasting way for the sake of your beloved son, Jesus Christ, and mentioned his name I pray, amen. 
 
(Pledge Of Allegiance) 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
Would you please call the roll please. 
 
(Roll Call) 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
We do have a full house and therefore a quorum. We will start our meeting with public participation, several people who have signed up to speak. The first will be Larry Wesley. When I call your name, come up to the front, make sure there is a microphone, very close to your mouth so everyone can hear you. This is recorded and you will have three minutes to talk about issues that concern the local government and I believe, there will be a clock, a timer on your monitor there on the screen above my head. Larry was the. 
 
LARRY WESLEY: 
I have been here quite a few times. I prepared a motivational speech for all of you guys. This morning, to get things done. But you know what? Might as well just tear it up, George gave me the good news, and my representative over here to me the good news that already got some signs and put it up at the top of the priority list. 
 
I want to thank all of you for doing that. For your participation, I want to recognize Jane Williams, unbelievable job, he and I were having such a good time watching these people almost run into our transportation which is individual parents bringing the kids to school. 
 
We saw a lot of different things out there. We were having a pretty good, big box truck driver, getting behind grandpa and grandma, bringing the little child to school, because the parents were beeping their horn, ", Get moving, make that turn!" Somebody coming this way, 60 miles an hour. You saw a lot of other things, we even talk to the groundskeeper that keeps repairing the side because people going around on the grass of where the rear and collision. He was out there worry, we had a good conversation with him. We also saw a sign that was the driver that was twisted up like pretzel, welcome to Volusia County center! 
 
Never reported, I am sure. Twists up like a pretzel and kept ongoing. So, what else did we see? We talk to the pastor of the church and we did measure the skidmarks from previous trucks slamming on the brakes. We had people going around on the grass, thank God it wasn't what. It was sunken, it is actually Green Lake's groundskeeper, we had to risk replace the signed. I am absolutely deleted that people can work together like this. And communicate with each other and get something done. 
 
I was told there were signs posted at the church. But I have to admit, I did not go to church on Sunday so I did not see the sign. I was on a mission trip. Look, thank you people for all the help and this voice crying in the wilderness can actually get something done. Thanks. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
Thank you Larry. Just to let the rest of the speakers now, Larry just did it right, he got up here and told us what city he is from, I am not requiring you to give your complete address for safety reasons. If you let us know what city you are from, then your representative up here knows who you are. The next speaker will be Thomas Rutledge. 
 
THOMAS RUTLEDGE: 
Chairman Brower, Council and staff, thank you for your willingness to serve the community. I am Tom Rutledge, I live on 2100 block. That is the infamous block were all the houses went down with the ocean, the reason I am here is I have some expertise in this area, the storm officer, South come we in case we had to move the headquarters. I had extensive experience, and work with national hurricane center focus. OK, the background is, we know the house is what in the water. 
 
We know that there was extensive issues with permitting and tried to get the sea was rebuilt, in particular, the 4100 block, there was no progress. Every house but to went into the water there. Now, they have been torn down. There is no seawall, the trap bags that the County put up were breached, couple of them were caused by the contractors and also the high tides that came from the high magnitude tides. So, we have about 80 feet of sand between with the South Atlantic Avenue. There is a threat to the road and in my opinion, this has been backed up by credentialed engineer opinion which is part of the public record. 
 
This is not hillbilly Tom saying it, but really engineer saying it. The threat really is, the deep erosion between two armored section of the beach, we will grab that sand and to moving directly toward the world. It's going to affect, but it is going to lose that for emergency service vehicles, construction vehicles, and extreme inconvenience. 
 
The solution is, is to get the Council together with the staff and the goal would be to direct staff, to execute emergency short term memory of the beach of the 4100 block, South Atlantic Avenue and all I ask is to make everything part of the public record, we need to know where we stand, if the staffers issue, we need to hear who did it and why and they need to have a counter credentialed opinion to what the opinion that we have presented to the public record. Thank you very much. Appreciated. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
Robin Maglio Laura (?). 
 
ROBIN: 
Good morning. Ormond Beach Florida, quick brief time to come up for the Florida Department state of division of corporations record, Belvedere terminal has established Delaware in the year 2012. In 2070, the companies set up the website, it was sold to a Mexican company. In 2019, Florida company branch was launched in St. Petersburg Florida. In June 2022, the company had a pre-application meeting with both Volusia County, city of Ormond Beach staff members. Number four, the company submitted a conceptual site plan to Volusia County. 
 
The idea to construct these fuel terminals has been in motion for at least 10 years. The most recent company activity that we have uncovered occurred on April 4 to April the of 2024. Airport obstruction evaluations were requested by the sponsor, Belvedere terminals and the representative group, six studies were requested for building studies and two tank studies. The request filed with the Texas of a a division for review. 
 
On June 6, 2024, all six requests were issued in determination of no hazard to navigation by Michael blush, FAA obstruction evaluation specialist. It was determined that no marking are required on any of the structures. If the county staff is not aware that these documents, they can be forwarded to the appropriate staff member. 
 
The residents of Volusia County and Ormonde each still have valid concerns about the fuel terminal project for these reasons. Per an email response in July a, from the Volusia County manager we have called Belvedere and left messages with no reply. The County website has not been updated since June 25. The conceptual site plan has not been with John to the applicant public statement has been made about relocation. 
 
The company's most recent interaction with the government agency was only 2.5 months ago. A question I have has the County staff reached out to the staff to come from or deny if either County is in negotiations with the company to relocate to the County? Although this project may not be of high concern, to some, it is for the residents of Ormond Beach of Volusia County, and has been for 11 months. The location of the fuel terminal is in our backyard, and threat to our way of life. We the residents will proceed with monitoring this bill and we will continue to do research. We will continue to protect Ormond Beach and Volusia County as we await for resolution for this matter. 
 
For those Councilman that have signed up there and looked at me and well spoken and listen to what I say, I thank you. To the others that have been looking down at your computers or phones, shame on you. I drive 35 minutes, it has been – 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
Thank you. Sheila Lind.  
 
SPEAKER: 
Good morning, Sheila Lynn, Fort Orange, Florida. I will go ahead and talk while she pulls it up. Just look at this picture, you would have to be a complete idiot to think 874 Hall Road is an appropriate location for bulk fuel storage. The councilman who voted against the moratorium with talk of property rights, lost tax revenue and lawsuits – the complete idiot statement applies to you. 
 
But chin up, you're not alone. Tim Schwartz also achieved complete idiot statement when he made the statement to Fox news. "You won't see it, you won't even know it is there." (Name), founder of the Springs Association, complete idiot when her public record email to Mr. Reinhart contained this statement and I quote, "a fuel farm will certainly be an improvement over the eyesore and probably environmentally contaminated parcel it is now." Randy, complete idiot when he posted on his Facebook page the concerned residents of Bear Creek, Ormond Lake and Pine Road are an angry, hostile mob. 
 
Randy Costello complete idiot when he said under oath at the hearing that he approved Belvedere's air permit from his desk, not a site visit, only using Google maps. The images he used were so zoomed and that none of the surrounding houses, businesses, airports or sports complex were part of the view. 
 
The biggest idiot award goes to Michael Henson with his public record statement, "they are looking to develop a rail freight terminal and a rail yard is a permitted use." As one of the angry, hostile mob members – I am here today to ask again to amend code ordinance to remove the words "any industrial use" from I 2 industrial zoning and all industrial zoning from Volusia County that are inappropriate for such use such as 874 Hall Road. 
 
There was a miracle this morning. I went to the gas station to put gas in my car to drive here and guess what? They actually had gas! They did not need bulk fuel storage, they did not need a railroad. There is gas. It is 2024 guys, we do not need bulk fuel storage. Thank you have a good day. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
Conny Colby. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Good morning, Conny Colby, Ormond Beach. Most of what I want to say has been covered but what I want to add is that after the governor awarded $10 million to assisted moving Belvedere facility out of Ormond Beach, Belvedere has been disingenuous and following through. 
 
Because I see all of these studies from the environmental resource permits, to some of the information that they are inputting into these websites we can pull up as public information. Some of it is very full of information that takes forever to read and I am not sure it makes any sense anyway. 
 
There was a pre-application they had put in in the beginning, which seems to have been closed anyway. But on the application, Belvedere that there were no wetlands on the property which is totally false. 
 
On their conceptual plans, it shows they are using 10,000 ft.³ of fill from a mitigation bank on that property which is going to make the flooding around that area totally different, plus filling in all the wetland is not a good idea. 
 
One of the questions on their application, they were supposed to describe how the project would be designed to have effects on the welfare or property of others and the response had nothing to do with that, it was how they were complying with the management district on the federal department. The Florida Department of Environmental Protection. 
 
And I would advise and hope for the fact that should I submit any of these applications to the county, that whoever reviews them follows through and check sent everything they put on their applications because so much of what I am reading is not true. Thank you. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
Suzanne (Name). 
 
SPEAKER: 
Good morning, Suzanne, Ormond Beach. Patricia cannot be here today so we are turning into letters in opposition to the production on Ormond Beach. There's a letter sent to the Seminole tribe of Florida with questions and concerns about the property located on Hall Road. 
 
There is also a response from the Seminole tribe of Florida historical preservation office back to the EDP. The request phase 1 cultural resource assessment survey to be conducted for subsurface, resource, archaeological deposits. 
 
To do this requires a 404 permit. Activities are proposed in unnamed wetlands within the subject parcel in the system will go to the to mocha River and unnamed debt. Federal court order was issued on February 15 of 2024, divesting at least for now FTE P of its authority to issue state 404 permits in Florida. 
 
I would assume Mr. Clay Ervin would know this. Therefore, the survey was not ordered to the FDA P requested through the Seminole tribe of Florida. Some permits for the waters were transferred to the Army Corps of engineers last week. So, the question is: was the determining child turned over to the Army Corps of Engineers yet? And does the County know? 
 
Thank you. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
Jon Nicholson. 
 
SPEAKER: 
A couple of things, first two items on the agenda – pressure washer, the garage in Daytona Beach in the center of our community. Needs to be pressure washed. I am asking that now that you have those, they be priority. It would not hurt to have this building pressure washed, it is showing its age. Secondly, Jake, because this would not hurt you... 
 
To regarding the beach approaches, it has been a year or two with regard to the renewal and updating of the beach approaches. We now have four remaining approaches and one walk. We do have the most tourists and the highest use of any part of the beach, with the fewest approaches. 
 
I am asking you to one, see if you can get approaches opened and two, that they be enhanced. Not a single one of them looks like an approach that a thriving tourist center would like to have. So I am asking you to take a look at those carefully. 
 
With regard to your ability to walk and chew gum at the same time, I have no problem with you guys looking at whatever you are looking at. You are sitting on your butt for eight hours, listening to us talk. There are times when things distract you, the things you have to look at. 
 
I was just on the Internet looking up best, I was checking on this. They are thinking that you're playing games or whatever or doing something for home or work, actually some of you guys are actually looking up what people are talking about. It is to their benefit you have accurate information. 
 
So at some point, we have to let the public know that when you get up and go and then come back, it is to go to the bathroom. They have the opportunity, I do several times, to go downstairs and use the bathroom. Why did they deny it to you guys? 
 
The public does not know what you're doing and I know you don't have to explain yourself but when the public is condemning you doing actually your job, it doesn't make sense to me. So I don't want to take up everybody's time and I guess justifying what you're doing but somebody has to. 
 
Somebody has to say you have every opportunity and needs to go through that door and you're gone further, what? Second? A minute? It is not like an hour or half an hour. Plus, there's a microphone so you can hear everything going on. Half the time I hear you walk out the door and your voting on something because you heard it and you want to be on the record. 
 
The public doesn't know that but I think the public needs to know. Thank you. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
Thank you. W Jean Bailey? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Good morning, my name is Jean Bailey and I am in the resident of Deland Florida, Volusia County. I have been here the last couple of meetings requesting that you allow me to place free Narcan vending machines at a couple locations that are on county property. My son, Bradley Bailey, died on Volusia County property. 
 
And that is why I am requesting that the is free Narcan machines be put at dolphin Park and that the bus terminal here in Deland. Last month I was here, I brought a group of 10 people and I made up a speech. Today I did not make up a speech, I am just going to wing it. The 10 people you guys have seen because they were holding up the Narcan boxes as I spoke. 
 
The little girl upfront here, seven years old. Her dad died of an overdose which is about four months old. That little girl never got to meet her father. That little girl is growing up with a single mother. 
 
And that is why it is important that we get these Narcan machines out to the people and put in the locations they are mostly needed. I have businesses, the community is behind me. I have so much support from business owners here in Volusia County. I can put these machines in their locations but who is going to see them if they are on the third floor of a parking garage? 
 
How is someone going to get to them? Again, I was asked by somebody at the bridge to put one by the bus depot because she was running over there three times a week to administer Narcan. 
 
The people know where the bridge is, it is right across the street. They have free Narcan, why are the people going there and getting it? Because they don't. As some of you, there is a stigma. 
 
I am not ashamed my son did drugs, I am hurt. I am very hurt. I am hurt that I cannot get the help I need from County. I went to the court nine months begging for help for my son, I did not get that help. Now I am here since February, begging for help again, to put these machines in a stock they are needed. -- Spot. 
 
My girlfriend was at her last time, she broke down in tears because her brother died six years ago and it still affect her. I am asking to put these machines in a place where they are needed and I need your permission to do that. I'm asking you again to please give me the permission to put these machines up. I appreciate your time, thank you very much. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
Thank you. Last speaker will be Lisa Burke. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Good morning everybody, funny that I come in after that lovely woman. I want to thank the Council and especially George Recktenwald and Jake everybody who has come out to the children's home. 
 
We are now residing formally in the United Methodist children's home. Our programs serve the community, as you all know, our independent living program takes those homeless teens, brings them in, houses them, get education, that's not my job and partnerships with Senator Wright. 
 
We have them going to the space center, becoming welders, making $64 an hour from a homeless teen. I have asked you for your clothing, Danny. Jake has taken the time to get us all situated with this, George has spent countless hours with us. Jeff has come out, you three need to come. 
 
Don was our attorney for many years so he donated most of his time. We have a program that needs to be brought out to the community. We can serve, we have vacancies, we need to get our word out. We have our box truck, that is how we support ourselves. We have a thrift store. 
 
But we need the little things, if you can come and donate your time, let the kids know what you did, your past. I want to thank you, we all have our passions and why we are here today. You're here to help the community so if you can just let the community know, "we are here, we want to help." 
 
We do have the foster side on the other side were retaken the youth and an actual Volusia County school on campus were those kids get a Volusia County high school diploma from University of high school. 
 
Our kids are allowed to participate in the Volusia County afterschool programs. Just because these kids were trafficked, they did not deserve the life we got but we gave them the opportunity to become better citizens, become what we are looking for. 
 
So when you're done with your suits, you can give them to me because those kids go on job interviews and they need good clothes. We did that in Tallahassee when I was with the governor. I need your suits. I need your wifes dresses. And I need a box truck! 
 
But I want to thank you and I know Danny is going to meet me later with some clothes for me, for my kids. I appreciate everyone of you, you are amazing. David and Troy, I hope you come visit me because I don't go away very easily. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I have been out there twice actually! 
 
SPEAKER: 
OK. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
Thank you all. I think that was appropriate David, I just wanted to say that staff follows up almost immediately with the people that speak to have an issue so it is not that you are being word and I will just tell you, help is on the way, you will probably hear it on comments from the attorneys today. It has been discussed, I just wanted to give you some hope. OK. That takes us to item number one which is in the approval of the agenda. Do we have a motion to approve the agenda as written? 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Motion to approve. 
 
TROY KENT: 
Second. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
All in favor? Any opposed? Motion carries seven – zero which brings us to the consent and gender. Does any Council Member have any item pulled out or to a vote? Not seeing any, do I have a motion. I am sorry, Councilman robins? 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Motion to approve consent agenda. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
I have a motion to approve the consent agenda as presented by Councilman robins, second by Councilman Reinhart. Any discussion? All in favor? Any opposed? Consent agenda is approved, 7 – 0. Troy, do you want to say something to the county manager? 
 
TROY KENT: 
It is funny, we had a perfect record there for a few months. We are starting it again because we kind of bumped off there, Councilman robins pulled something. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
This brings us to item 4. Which is a strategic goals to increase efficiency. It is what we presented by Ben Marlette. 
 
BEN BARLETT:  
Before you today is the award for your approval of a contract with PCI Municipal Services for proposed of beach parking program. Real quick update on the timelines since we last discussed this item in front of the Council was early March. In four months, we have moved through the procurement process and to the selection and recommendation of award by that selection committee to the agenda item here before you today. Just some quick highlights on what we are looking at with this program. 
 
It is an LPR program, we are looking at fixed LPR, license plate recognition as well as mobile LPR to confirm those have paid and authorized to park in our off beach lots. One of the, very good – one of the best part of this proposal is we discussed it at the last meeting, and will pass registration specifically. Specifically, we were verify residence there is documentation that has to be divided. If it can be somebody or the license plate number, that can provide some sort of is that verification we were sure if that was possible, PCI was brought, included in the proposal that 90% of the folks that will be applying for these resident passes, Volusia County has something that is register, they can get to inset verification without having to upload documents. There are some folks that we do offer the resident rate to people who are in property in Volusia County but may have that. That requires some the British. Those are big pluses. 
 
There are other methods to pay, act, text, and FT, kiosks at larger lots. Multiple ways for folks who may not be adept at using some of the technology, we are trying to make sure everybody is covered and can pay. They will be required to have folks who answer phones as well as brick-and-mortar facilities, some people can come in person and speak to their staff. 
 
We going to have real-time lot capacity, accessible through the beach at. So folks leaving their house, they want to go to a certain parking lot, they can look it up on the app which is where most of the transactions are going to occur anyway, they can look that up and see if that lot is full, if it is nearing capacity and hopefully adjust their plans accordingly. They will have the ability to enforce violations and this company has experienced, in Florida with paid off beach parking programs in other areas. 
 
So, wanting were going to need direction from staff, PCI brought this up in the proposal, there's basically two options, we can start charging folks immediately for paid off beach party, effective October 1. It would require expedited public messaging as well as trying to get people registered. And basically, from that, the staff agrees with this recommendation to do a real, extensive public messaging and registration company. We want to make sure the residents know that this is refer them. And based on PCI's experience and implementing of beach program, paid off beach parking program, where it has not existed before, they have made the case that really extended time and that extensive community outreach is important, you do not want to surprise folks. 
 
That being said, we can both in go in directions, we can implement this in October 1 and will be as aggressive as possible as far as getting folks registered or we can do a January 1 and have a real comprehensive role at the program. It is really councils discretion. 
 
On the legal side of this, we plan, at the next meeting, bringing the agreement with the Sheriff's office to include enforcement, to allow PCI to perform enforcement on the of beach parking and then the next item on this agenda will be the modifications to the beach code. The modifications to the code that include the paid off beach parking rates as discussed in the March meeting. Complimentary parking for residents and off beach find structure as we have discussed in previous March meeting. 
 
Currently, on this particular agenda item, where requesting approval of the contract and award to PCI services and and also direction on whether counsel is good with the January 1 rule out or would prefer the October one rule out. Happy to answer any questions, we got folks from PCI to answer any questions. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
Thank you Ben, I think we have multiple questions, we will start with Councilman Santiago. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Good Jeffrey too. I think I have two questions. It may or may not be relative to right now, but just, I want to get this off my thought process. Be free parking to Volusia County resident option, we decided on a sunset on that, and with the start date, I cannot recall... 
 
SPEAKER: 
That specifically applies to the on beach, which is not part of the program. This is strictly of beach. To answer your question, the code revision that would change the rates accordingly for on beach parking as discussed in the March meeting, thus does include in the sunset provision. To be clear, there is no sunset for resident of beach parking. It should remain free. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
If I recall, it was mighty in Troy like that. It was your idea, correct. 
 
(Laughter) 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I will say this, as I mentioned this, good job of this, I know this is been a passion of yours and we are here today to complete the. Second question, when you say October 1 versus January 1, two months versus four months, marketing plan, can someone educate me on what's going to happen in those 2 to 4 months? Why is four months rather than too much? I am not against this, just give me what's going to happen in that time.? 
 
BEN BARLETT: 
Assuming they approve it, notice to proceed, effective certain date, they will start working on it, if we were to go live on October 1, they will speak to this on the next agenda item, the way the code changes is written is, we can start charging for parking when those lots get side. On the sides go up. If you put the signs up, we can start charging, if you put up on gyri, we can start charging that. There is a flexibility to allow that. 
 
The October one deadline, they can get the signs up, they can get mobile payments going through the app, the kiosk equipment requires some time, there will be a lag. There will be payment options that will not be available initially on the October 1 date. So with the kiosk and the larger lot, you can walk up and stick your credit card and Mike not available to that equipment comes in. We cannot order it until we issue them a notice to proceed on the contract. 
 
January 1 rule out, all those items will be in and ready to go. Just really, a lot of it is the extra time on the education and really getting the word out to everybody, people register, getting residents register, that was one of the directors from counsel was we do not want this to be a secret. We want people and live it to Volusia County to know that they can park for free on the of beach parking and that requires them to register. That is really the two differences. It is kind of the downtime between October 1 and December, there is a revenue loss that will occur but not charging between those dates, between October 1 and January 1. 
 
But the we the staff feels that would be offset to the ability to get the work out. -- Word out. 
 
We don't want people pulling out the parking lot and they said it was free, didn't register, we can – with there's multiple ways we could get the word out and increases the time. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
If I understand you correctly, January 1, everything operational, October 1 parts of it will not be ready to be deployed. Is that fair to say? The last question Mr. chair, on the enforcement side – you said it's going to be an agreement with the Sheriff's office and the vendor to get them the rights to do that. We have an itemized breakdown on what that cost is projected to be or they observed it in the full contract? 
 
BENJAMIN BARTLETT: 
Everything is included there in the annual fee that they are charging us. It is a turnkey system. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I asked that question for a reason for something else I will bring it up later. Thank you Mr. hair. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
Ben, many people have multiple cars, how will that be handled? Is it only one car allowed to get a parking pass? 
 
BEN BARTLETT: 
They are tied to the address and resident. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
This is the biggest question we are getting – I am getting. Thank you for handling it so well, most people thought residents were being charged as well. Ron me quickly through and maybe they would want the process of getting registered. Actually I will turn that one over to the parking consultant. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Good morning. I am principal and owner of PCI municipal services. The registration process for the residents will be very simple, most of the people will utilize the website access. Simply go in, enter the required information, as we spoke earlier, there will be an automatic authentication process to expedite the process. 
 
One set up the account, they will be able to go in and self-management. If they buy a new vehicle, or if they – their wife or someone comes to live with the comedy qualifies as a resume, they will be able to add license plates and update the systems on their own. For convenience sake. The other 20% will be able to come to the brick-and-mortar, we're looking at a couple of office locations within the county. If they need some assistance during office hours. There's a 24 seven call center, there will be videos posted on the parking website that will walk them through every aspect of the process.  
 
JEFF BROWER: 
Thank you. 
 
BEN BARTLETT: 
It is very similar to the current system where you can go and add a license plate to the account. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
Sounds like it, thank you very much. Councilman Reinhart? 
 
MATT REINHART: 
I have three questions, one of which Councilman Santiago asked with the agreement. This has already been talked with, with them and... 
 
SPEAKER: 
Yes, we have been coordinating with the Sheriff's office. Right now with the statute a is is only the Sheriff has the authority to provide parking enforcement specialists. These are not law enforcement officers, the only power is to enforce kind of parking so that is the law enforcement side. 
 
Because it is proprietary, that is an option. You know, just like our parking garage, you can operate it. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
OK. Thank you. The lot capacity that you talked about, I like the idea, the fact that it is online. Will there be signs on site to reflect that as well? 
 
BEN BARTLETT: 
Yes, there will be signage on the site itself. We are going with green light, red light, yellow light type situation. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
Kind of like the lots are as you are coming down the highway with respect to the...? 
 
BEN BARTLETT: 
They put the exact amount of spaces and we will not get into that detail. Green will be wide open, it will be both. The tools and the parking lots. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
Last question with respect to the local residents, and I like the fact that you are giving more timeframe, I like that is all. But inevitably, someone will forget. Will they be given the opportunity to correct that? If they receive a bill saying, "you should have paid." "I meant to register." 
 
Is there a timeframe, a threshold where they can have that kind of taking care of, so to speak? 
 
SPEAKER: 
There was a discussion at the last meeting about offering, for the lack of a better term, annulment. But the Council at the time decided not to, which is one reason we are kind of recommending the January so we can really hit it hard. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
If that is the case, definitely. Thank you. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
Vice chair? 
 
TROY KENT: 
Thank you, a couple of questions, looking at item 3 with expenditure 1.3 and 1.3 million crossed out, can you elaborate on that a little bit? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Sure, PCI is offering a discount if they are awarded both contracts. We are still moving forward with the process of the off beach parking, we anticipate bringing that to counsel at the next meeting. 
 
If they were to be awarded both, the 1.5 would see a $250,000 deduction in their annual fee. At the time of marriage, we kind of estimate our revenue and cost, I believe we estimated the price, annual expenditure for this program so it did come in slightly lower than we estimated. 
 
TROY KENT: 
Thank you and what kind of revenue, I appreciate you putting it on the record which is why want you to answer that, what kind of revenue are we looking at? 
 
SPEAKER: 
We are still projecting the same revenue that we did in March so roughly $8 million in gross and less with the cost of the programs. So you're looking at just over $6 million in that revenue. 
 
TROY KENT: 
Fantastic. Lastly I will say I am really cautious to use the word "free." Because this isn't free, our residents have already paid for this. I would say our residents can park at these locations at no extra charge because that is just me. 
 
I received some push back a little bit earlier last year when we used the term "free" and the residents already paid for this, capital project so they have Artie paid for it with their tax dollars. We will allow them to park in the parking lots they have paid for at no extra charge. Thank you. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Very good point sir. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
Councilman Dempsey? 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
A lot of these are tied into law enforcement for Amber alert, will these be tied into law enforcement? 
 
SPEAKER: 
We have had those discussions in terms of our systems will be separate. In other words, the database the ESSO uses is not these folks... that being said, we haven't finalized this. Whether or not how the ESSO can access our system, should they be looking at Amber alert types of systems, we are still working on those details. 
 
We have offered that to them as a possibility if they are so inclined but it would be a one-way type of situation where they can read our data but have no access. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
Is going to say because you have notes on the proposal where it says like most OKRs, not only the tag but they can actually video the driver? The people within the vehicle? 
 
Being on a beach and where abductions can quite potentially happen to children, I would like to at least have the Council offer that to the Sheriff and give them a direct line to this. 
 
SPEAKER: 
It has been offered at the staff level, if you want to express your support to that as well. Basically they have, we have offered them the ability to pull the data, you know? 
 
We haven't worked it out but basically if they are looking for a certain license plate, we can give them the data of the LPR's of our cameras and they can pull the data and show where the license plate was. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
How long would we preserve the video imagery as well as the LPR staff? Until it... I assume it is like most videos where we burn itself out after a while? 
 
SPEAKER: 
It is a policy decision, sir, we would have to work with staff on that. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Would have to make sure it meets the requirements for record-keeping. We would make sure to follow and we would, at minimum, meet those standards. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
Is that something we need to vote on today? 
 
SPEAKER: 
No, we have already offered the ability for the Sheriff's office to access that data. Unless you told us not to, we are going to proceed down that path. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
I just wonder how long we preserve it. As an issue... 
 
SPEAKER: 
I can get you the information but at minimum, we will meet the standards required by state statute to preserve those records. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
Any idea what that might be? 
 
(Laughter) 
 
SPEAKER: 
This is not law enforcement data so we would not be subject to the same retention data, they are public records so I believe it is maybe a couple of years that we have to retain all the data, I will need to check on, you know, what the... 
 
What the library? From the state? Further attention. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
Video data as well? Three? Everything-- 
 
SPEAKER: 
 involved is public record which has the retention schedule and that is how long we have to keep it for. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
OK, thanks. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
Councilman Santiago? 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I was not going to talk about the data, have to do more research and they see the value for public safety but I also see the cost for retaining data for two years minimum or whatever it might be. Right? 
 
I would say it probably is, we have a very and this is my opinion. Very liberal view of public records, since I have come here. And in most cases, in my opinion, it has been a good one. But at the same time, I think the interpretation is what value does it have for utilization, whether or not it is still required to be retained? 
 
SPEAKER: 
We would have to retain the data anyway for citations. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I'm talking about video and all that stuff. 
 
SPEAKER: 
The video, sun pass and the video or picture of your license plates. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
That is just to give you a ticket but I don't know they keep every tag that goes to the average video? 
 
SPEAKER: 
We can get that clarified. But at minimum, the ESSO would be able to pull our tag and see the particular tag access and left. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Yeah, that is lower data. My question was only enforcement staff, I want to go back there really quick. What is the staffing plan for enforcement? 
 
SPEAKER: 
So, enforcement will be a combination of mobile enforcement vehicles with staff, up to five vehicles patrolling the parking lots at any given time. Then we will also have in any lot over 20 spaces, we will have automated LPR capabilities so those systems, we will be tracking and recording data. The citations are not issued by a system though, it is just data that is verified twice though and it is verified with the letter to make sure it is accurate. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
And the manpower that is doing not work, that is basically during beach hours? 
 
SPEAKER: 
It would be during the hours were payments are required. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
During beach hours? 
 
SPEAKER: 
We currently have requirements set by counsel but when the lots can be parked in, 11 AM, I don't remember when... 5 AM to 11 PM? 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
Vice chair Troy Kent. 
 
TROY KENT: 
If there are questions, I will take my name off, I was going to make a motion at this time. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
OK, one more question from Councilman Robins. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Thinks chair. I was walking back in, I apologize. Councilman Reinhart, he had asked if it was a resident but I did not catch, you said Mulligan? How many chances does the resident get? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Zero. Counsel directed us for zero. That is why the education campaign and pushing it to January 1 to make everybody understand. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Counsel, my immediate thought for whatever it is worth, we have a... An extremely high elderly population and, listen, if they are going to be staffing it – in my opinion, it will have people buy a phone, there is going to be continual issues. 
 
I mean, my father is 83 and he has a hard time turning on the same dish network, every time and it has been like that for 15 years. So, I would like to see you, I don't know if counsel would get on board with this if we can come up with some kind of middle ground. 
 
If they are a resident, I don't want to hammer people, you know? If they are a resident and we are doing this for them, let's not jam it, get them across the line however we can. And I don't believe in a Mulligan or 1234 our residents. 
 
Let's see if we can maybe... if they need help registering, if that is what it takes, let's do it. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Definitely, if they need help registering – we have a 24 hour phone and phone numbers will be posted at all of the lots as well as actual brick-and-mortar location where they can go and meet us. To that point... 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
I just don't want, things are going to happen and I don't want to keep penalizing them and saying, "OK, Mr. so and so, this is your last shot." And stick them with a fine, I don't want that. Thanks. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
OK. Is that the last question? Jake, you have a question?  
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
The directions how to move this, will be one of the sense of the parking lot, if I walk up and I don't know what the heck I'm doing, if we are the resident, call this number and it will help me through it. 
 
BEN BARTLETT: 
Our goal is if you are arrested, here is how you put for free. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Will there be signage in the parking lots from October 1 to December 1 saying get a head start! Download this app! 
 
BEN BARTLETT: 
We got multiple lots, signage of those will be key. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
As I thought, thank you. Go ahead. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Just on another level of customer service for our residents and our visitors, the PCI as proposed some ambassadors that are walking our lots, signing our lot in advance of these going into effect. Just so no one, here is a pamphlet on how to register, we will try to make it simple and easy as possible, it gives us that time get boots on the ground to our users. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
OK. Very good. Thank you. That is the end of questions, we will go into debate. To discuss this, we can begin, we have vice chair Troy can. 
 
TROY KENT: 
Thank you Chairman Brower. I will go ahead and make a motion, my motion is to approve item number three in a word of agreement for working services to PCI municipal services. Effective January 1. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Second. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
We have the motion on the floor to approve of the agreement with the effective date of January 1, the motion is by troika, second is by David Santiago. 
 
BEN BARTLETT: 
The contract will go effective immediately, we will not charge parking until January 1. I'm not sure if Paolo reminded me in case. (Laughs) Paolo reminded me, I do not know if we have a public comment. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
We do. One member of the public that would like to speak, Council we can have her go first. Let us call Connie Colby. You will have three minutes. Thank you. 
 
CONNIE COLBY: 
Good morning, Connie Colby, I did not see any place on the people with that said we would get some money out of this deal. All I was saying that we are spending $1 million a year plus. So that part makes me feel a little bit better. My question is, how many parking lots is this covering? Could we have maybe a map of some time as to where they are? Thank you. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
Thank you. 
 
BEN BARTLETT: 
We can definitely divide a map and a list, it was definitely part of the at least a list of all the lots was part of the presentation back in March, we have mapped and we can provide that information and we will have that available. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
It is also available by online, you can see if working lots are full or not. Thank you. Would question. Alright, vice chair and? 
 
TROY KENT: 
That's exactly what I asked the question so that you would hear and everybody can hear that this was actually going to generate revenue and not on the backs of the residents of Volusia County who have already paid for the parking lot. 
 
So with this going through, I just want to say, if it goes through, Council, thank you. Thank you for allowing me to have the opportunity to bring this up, to talk about this. In terms of timelines, I just have to tell you, this is no offense to government. This has moved at work speech, whatever you look at this at how to go to, any government body. I am up appreciative to you gentlemen, appreciative to you George, to you and your team. This is part one, part two should be at our next meeting. Where we will get our residents on their beach, driving at no extra charge and that is in my opinion, the most impactful, biggest change – positive change in Volusia County on our beaches in 36 years. 
 
So, this is extremely exciting, to not only me, but to hundreds of thousands of our residents and we still offer a top-notch experience, not only to our residents but to our visitors alike. I'm very, very pleased with the way that this is going, and I'll be even more excited in our next meeting when we tie everything down with the on beach parking and driving for the residents. Thank you. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
Councilman Santiago? 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I agree with the January start date, that's why I second it. What was most impactful for me to support that, originally I wanted to go October 1, knowing that not all pieces would be ready for October 1, let's just start everything, that way people will start going everything from the beginning. Versus here is one piece in this is another piece. I want to echo one of the toys comments that this move very fast. Thank you. 
 
It is not the norm, it is a compliment. 
 
BEN BARTLETT: 
Faster than government speed. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Thank you and think is that. Happy to see the. Thank you Mr. check. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
Councilman Reinhart? 
 
MATT REINHART: 
I will use your word, Mulligan, because he threw it out there. It was interesting to hear that Mr. Robbins, I think is on the same page as I am. I know we talked about it, I know we agreed to for to push back and we talked about the fact we going to start this in January in the aggressive campaign that to be utilized in order to train people. You said, there will be the time when they come into the lot, it is hard to record the fact that the individual is not registered. Yes, you can go and part his car or she can go park the car and do the registration there, will that erase the fines, so to speak? Is there a timeframe? I'm getting in the weeds a little bit, and it really really, these questions will be asked. With the amount of people that are coming into the Volusia County every day, we have a lot of residents that have been here forever but I anticipate a lot more coming in. 
 
Everybody talks about that, the amount of people that are moving into the state of Florida. Inevitably, somebody will not know and I just have issue with the fact that we are going to hammer that word, the citizen at least given the opportunity to fix it. You know, I do not know. I am curious how the rest of my colleagues feel about the. If not, I love the idea. I love the idea of waiting till January. 
 
Go ahead, I'm sorry. 
 
SPEAKER: 
If the policy was to allow registers to not register and receive the violation, and not register, they should avoid the citation, we can enable them. It will simply be a policy. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
I'm a lot more comfortable with that. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
No more questions for you but Troy, I want to let you know I'm going to support this, of course, vote for it. I hope we get a unanimous vote here. Mrs. Colby, you had a great question. It really impact expensive to maintain that, it is expensive to provide safety services, cleanup, all of that. This helps us cover that cost with people from out of time. Had have no skin on the game from maintaining the beach. This is serious about cutting taxes. Our first responsibility is to our own residents. Sometimes, you look at this, this is just replacing the tax, we have to have a mechanism to pay for the maintenance of our beach. 
 
This is a fair way to bring in that revenue from people that are enjoying the beach that were not paying for it because the word free is really a misnomer here. Our own residents are paying for the beach already. 
 
This and, this will not be a second charge to them. So, I'm going to support this, I hope the entire counseled us. Councilman Santiago. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Thank you Mr. chair. Since Matt, went against the rules and ask the question, I will ask a hypothetical question. What are we going to do with the rental cars? Do we have processes in place here? Do we have a lot of visitors. They go in part, some of them will say that the not paying anything. 
 
SPEAKER: 
We have dealt with them and they will be a protocol for them to administer. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Thank you for that. Matt, and Danny, the description is probably a good one, if somebody pulled in, can they hear that. It's basically the question. I'm OK with the cure it has happened there, 24 hours. None of this, there's administrative cost all of that later. Is the registered the same day – I'm just throwing it is – if they register the same day, they went in, I can accept that. I think we discussed, the term mother. I think – good marketing. Let's not just continue to add more and more red tape into this. This is it, it is free, do the right thing I'm OK with the P. Same day, 24 hour cure.. I think that is a, let's find the middle ground. 
 
Just thought. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
Vice chair? 
 
TROY KENT: 
Think you Chairman. Councilman Santiago did, quick question, when someone registers their vehicle for the beach party and they are a resident, that gets the agreement for the on beach parking as well. Will that tie over, they won't have to register the vehicle again? 
 
SPEAKER: 
It's a single interface. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
I was the maker of the motion, I wanted to just kind of look at you with the head not, it was going to amend the motion about this Mulligan issue. With the talk about that, I was looking at some of our residents meeting pass for lack of better term, what is this 24 hours are talking about? Explain that to me and those that need to be amended into the motion. You want to talk about the 24 hours? 
 
BEN BARTLETT: 
Currently, if they have not registered, they have not received a citation. In this cure., If someone pulls in, the resident, they realize that they are not registered and within 24 or 48 hours, to be the pick up the phone and call the number, how do I register as resident and within that time period, there register, secret, to that effect, it was like there already registered. One clarification I would like to me, if someone has a resident and a pull in and pay, I do think we want to get into a refund type of situation. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I think that fine or if you want to do it a separate vote. 
 
TROY KENT: 
I will just amend my motion to include the verbiage. You said 24 to 48 hours, which one? 
 
BEN BARTLETT: 
It is really a software change. 
 
TROY KENT: 
I think 48 hours. I will amend my motion to say that we give our Volusia County residents up to 48 hours – two.? – Cure.? To make the adjustment needed so they don't get charge. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I will second the motion, except that. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
We have an amended motion, let us take a quick vote on that, on the amendment just to keep everything legal. If the amendment is just adding the 48 hour cure period. Cure is different from kill period. All in favor? Any opposed? The amendment passes six – one. 
 
We have one more comment from Jake Johansson.  
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Thank you chairman, I just wanted to speak to the original motion. The way ICA, we are giving people a four-month care., If you will. I am going to arrive at this parking lot on or about 15 October and you see a bunch of charges and there will be a sign or ambassador Saint don't worry, Mr. Johansson, you are a resident. All you need to do is download the app. 
 
Alright, I will do that, boy it is hot out today, download the app and take a picture, putting your thing in 45 minutes later or 25 minutes later, it says you are a resident because it automatically communicates. So I said I don't have to pay today? The sign says no, not till January 1. So January 1 rolls around and they park in the spot and I follow the directions or go to the kiosk or don't go to the kiosk and I'm good to go. 
 
So for the confused people, there's going to be ambassadors. Four months of what's not be confused. So let's say somebody shows up on February 1 and has never been to the beach before it is a resident and goes in there. 
 
What the heck, I have to pay for parking now? They look and they look at the sign that says, "if you are a resident, follow the rules." They say, "you know, I am just going to pay today." They pay today, take a picture of the rules and figure how to do it while they are at the beach. Next time, something let's them know that they park for free. 
 
Or, like we do now, we forget our sun pass. The drive through and we pay the fee. The car without the sun pass or driving somebody else's car. "Oh, I should have taken my own car." 
 
I think in general, we need to give our County citizens just a little bit more credit for being smart. We are not a stupid batch of people, we can figure this out. If we can't, we have tons of people. Have you ever seen it happen? 
 
With a ton of people saying, "oh, I am confused. Can you help me?" Happens all the time. And I don't mind the 48 hour period that government is not here always to solve everybody's problem. So that is where I stand and that is the reason I said nay. 
 
I will support as the motion stands 100% because I want to move on and do the right thing for our citizens. Thank you very much chairman. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
Thank you. I don't see any more comments so I will call for the vote. The motion on the floor is to approve the agreement for paid parking services with a 48 hour care. And the January 1 start date, all in favor say aye. 
 
(Multiple speakers) 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
Any opposed? The motion carries 7-0, unanimous. Paolo, you are doing item 4. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Inky Mr. chair, I am assistant attorney and this is about the off beach parking fee. The separate provisions by counsel is a daily fee of $20, charging taxes and any applicable convenience charges. $100 for an annual pass plus taxes and credit or zero dollars and no additional fee if you are a resident and register with the county, upon recommendation of counsel, penalty is $50 if paid within 14 days of postmark and hundred dollars if paid afterwards. 
 
Hours of parking for facilities will remain 5 AM to 11 PM unless otherwise signed. Parcel by parcel basis, we can change those hours. The ordinance has an effective date of October 1 however, upon discussion with the Council in which the Council previously directed us to make the program effective January 1 because it requires the placement of signs. Other parking violations such as disabled person parking space or parking in a fire zone, those are handled separately with a charge if you park in the handicap accessible spot. 
 
So having that, staff's recommendation is approval. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
Are there any questions for attorney? You do have a question? OK, vice chair Kent. 
 
TROY KENT: 
Thank you. Paolo, after a resident signs up for this today have to annually do it or does it follow to the next year? 
 
SPEAKER: 
That would be a policy decision if it automatically, it is typically set up to re-authenticate residency so there is a possibility that we can have automatic renewal. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Currently, right now... 
 
TROY KENT: 
Before you go on, I will tell you where I am. I want it as seamless as possible and easy as possible for residents so someone who signs up does not have turn every year, I would be a huge advocate for that. Donna Mark one question I would have is whether someone solves their vehicle. In Florida, the license plate stays with the person so typically I don't see why that would be a problem. 
 
From a policy standpoint, is the code call for renewal? 
 
SPEAKER: 
No, that would be a policy decision based on how we want to set this up. The requirements and the penalties and automatic renewal is something that you can direct us to do that is handled purposefully. I don't want to bog down the code with those details. 
 
TROY KENT: 
And counsel, since this is new to our county, certainly not others but since residents will not be paying twice to this, it is a moot point to make it seamless and easy as possible for our residents so once they sign up for it, even if they sell their car, like you said, the license plate stays with the owner. 
 
SPEAKER: 
So, it is really if they were to move. But the policy is do we require them to submit something new? Or do we still run the check on the 12 month? If somebody moved to the registration change, they will be dropped as a resident. 
 
TROY KENT: 
State law is residents anywhere must let their drivers license reflect that. 
 
SPEAKER: 
The gap would be if somebody registered and two months later moved to another county and theoretically the resident rate for that for the rest of the year until they pull on the 12 month. Otherwise it would not require anybody. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
Will hear the rest of the questions, thank you. Is going to say if you're the one who makes the motion, I would suggest making that part of the motion, right of the policy that they automatically... Councilman Robins? 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Thank you, chair. Mr. Troy Kent, when we go to register our vehicles, how hard would it be? I don't know staff can answer this question or anyone else, you can check a box with the registration about if it is free, head, goes into the system. Is there any communication between systems that is something these folks can do every year they pay their registration that is attached to their tag and the vehicle? 
 
SPEAKER: 
We looked at them a little bit, it is not something that was deemed feasible to go through. Basically requiring the registration through the vendor is the ideal way to do this. Having a tax collector check the box or they can renew their drivers license and they don't necessarily need to renew in Volusia County. 
 
So the database will be accessible. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I am sorry, did you say you don't have to renew staff in Volusia County? If so, what sorcery are you talking about? 
 
SPEAKER: 
You can renew your driver's license in the county that doesn't... 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
I was just document registrations. 
 
SPEAKER: 
At this point, no, to answer your question. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Say we do check the box and send that information to the system, could we say hey... 
 
SPEAKER: 
One thing we look at is to get more efficient on the registration but as of right now, we don't. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
OK, questions. David Santiago? 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
One question Mr. chair, are we getting rid of the need for the ugly stick after this? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Yes. (Laughs) 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
Questions, Jake Johansson? OK. You are done with questions? Are you going to make a motion? Vice chair Troy Kent. 
 
TROY KENT: 
Thank you. I will make a motion but before I do, George, this will be heavy on your shoulders but, no, the educational piece of getting this out is hugely important and I know you and your team are up to the challenge. 
 
I will make a motion at this time to approve item 4 and I will just add that once a vehicle is registered, the resident is registered in Volusia County, we make it as seamless as possible so it continues year after year. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
OK, can we call that auto registration? 
 
TROY KENT: 
Auto registration. Absolutely. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
As a motion on the floor by Mr. Kent, is there a second? OK, David Santiago makes a second. Before we go to debate, we have one member of the public that would like to speak to this, Jon Nicholson. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Jon Nicholson, Daytona Beach side. I have several questions. I voted for consolidation of the beach years ago. There was no charge for the beach, years ago. If we had passed this, years ago, we are talking about a loss of $800 million. If we had done this originally, that Israel money so it is about time. Secondly, we are missing out by limiting it to just the County property. Alright? 
 
My uncle was in charge of (jargon) and parking. What he did was go to the churches and other locations and put meters. On our beach side, we have five in Daytona Beach areas that we could put public parking. For 40 years, is a space right in front of Bel Air Plaza, 235 parking spaces that we never ever used. On Ocean Avenue, there are two vacant lots that we can use on the ocean. 
 
So we have these. Why not reach an agreement and had public parking there indicate moderate, right? I am not really a fan of the free parks, unpaid parking for residents. Those of us who want it, I am considered lazy, I am considered cheap, my sister calls me frugal. 
 
It takes me almost 5 minutes to walk to the beach from my house. Right? But I would rather hop in my car and drive. So for the next meeting, I would ask you to ask staff, how much are we going to lose by not charging residents? What happens is people like me won't pay to be there but if it is free, I will take it. 
 
How many of our residents who would not have paid will go to the beach for those locations in which we would have charged? That is a loss item in the something we should consider. It may not be significant but if it is, it should be something in your vote. What is my other... 
 
Oh, there used to be a motor vehicle division somewhere. I used to have to buy my license plate every year and little details every year. I am still paying for my license plate in detail every year. Can we do this for Volusia County? All of us who have our tags that we buy automatically go in the system so we don't have to? 
 
This way everybody gets it. Thank you. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
Thank you very much, David Santiago? 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Thinks Mr. chair, two points for discussion. I think the answer the question on the cost, I think when we first moved this item forward, we discussed that and I think it was a risk that we determined we were willing to take and we added the sunset. 
 
The purpose for the sunset was to see what the effect would be on funding to see if we want to renew it for the following term. I think Ben just gave me a finger? 
 
SPEAKER: 
That is only for on beach parking. This is offbeat. Given I think you for clarifying. I think that's what he was talking about? He was talking at the beach? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Yes and really quick, auto registration was mentioned in the motion and I want to confirm auto renewal? 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I wanted to confirm that, auto renewals. Make sure they are eligible? That is all I had, Mr. chair. Thank you, Mr. Kent? 
 
TROY KENT: 
My only comment is Jon Nicholson, I don't see it as any loss whatsoever. That is a win, that is again, we gained our resident back because there are many that, since 1986, 1987 refused to go to the beach and participate because they did not pay extra before and they refuse to pay extra. I just want to get to know I look at that differently. It is not a loss. It is a definite gain. Are bringing in those people back to the beach who are going to spend the money in areas on the beach side is a huge win. Thank you. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
However Mr. Nichols, when you mentioned opening up the parking lots, I see the eyes kind of laid up. He says no. Councilman Don Dempsey? 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
One thing I expense, in support of Troy which is that, in the land--DeLand. We used to have parking meters all throughout. It was called Dead Land. I would not forget Main Street, they sold the parking meters for 50 bucks per piece and I almost but one so I can time my consultations. 
 
(Laughter) 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
I did not. The one thing I noticed is probably within six months to a year after those majors being removed and having free parking downtown, it changed the whole dynamic of our economy. There is a lot of support, in my opinion, I have seen it. Hopefully, this off beach free parking to residents will have the downtown merchants in that area. Maybe it will be a benefit. That is all. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
Any other comments? If not, we have a motion on the floor to approve ordinance 2024 – 21 for off beach parking fees. With automatic renewal. All in favor? Any opposed? Ordinance passes seven – zero. Thank you Ben. Item 5 will be continued to August 6, 2024. 
 
Item 6 is a quasijudicial hearing, special exception for a Forestry Resource Subdivision located at 665 Lake George Road, Clay Irvin you will present us. Before you, I will ask the Council if you – anyone has an ex parte to declare. None. OK. Apparently there is none. 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
Good morning, Clay Irvin, Director of resource management, in your zoning ordinance, there is a provision for forestry resource subdivision. This is it to use to grant flexible different folks within that land use and zoning category to allow for less dense residential might be able to continue on and use the other property for things such as forestry resources. In this particular situation, we actually have a property owner who has gone to the painstaking efforts to restore their property in accordance with this management practices. And seeking approval to carve out 10 acres for their homestead and sell the remaining 20 acres to St. John's River management District into the lake George forest and wildlife management area. Staff reviewed it for the exception criteria in section 72 – it complies with that, it went forward to planning development with a recommendation for approval, it is coming to you today with a recommendation from them. 
 
Unanimously to approve the special exception. If there's any question., We will be glad to answer it. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
Questions, David Santiago. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Thank you Mr. chair, correct me if I am wrong, thank you for the presentation. This is an example of when government can get together with private property owner to preserve land and have land opportunity for them to build or develop in the future. Can I describe it as a win-win and it does not cost us anything? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
We know officer Glenn Storch, yes. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
(Laughs) Thank you Mr. care. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
We have one member of the public would like to speak to this. Henry Morgenstern. Thank you. 
 
HENRY MORGENSTERN: 
Henry Morgenstern, I am the applicant. I filled it up because I don't know if you don't want to hear from you are anything. There are a couple of things that were in the application and in the planning commission hearing. 
 
I don't know if that is automatically the record or not. In your notes, he said it, what he said is true, to get that property to restore, very happy to help contribute to the surrounding area. Just want to point out a couple of things that were not in your units. But in the planning commission. The email from Cynthia who is your Volusia County land manager. Is very familiar with the properties, helping others several times. She said she's very excited. And having the property added you have done and now your legacy will be able to live on. I thought, I have a great relationship with her. She's done a great job out there. 
 
She also wanted to mention that Volusia forever is also in favor of this. The other thing is that, your notes mentioned that George Johnson, stated who is in support, but let blackboard to mention that George Johnson was the district conservationist in the USDA conservation resources during many of the years who worked with me and was, not just a citizen coming up approving it, he is the USDA guy that was monitoring watching what I was doing. He testified, and to the good job that I have done. And the great value that they do to the management. 
 
This is not just a bunch of other parts. This is where invariable ecosystems, as reflected in the record somewhere. It is – and giving them part of the stream that goes to Lake George. You know, special property that I work hard for. 
 
I am 73 years old. I'm not going to be able to keep it forever, I wanted to make sure it would be protected after it was good. That's the reason that I am doing this. If we can do that, like Cindy says, protected for the future. Anyway… And if you have any question. Don't know if you want to talk to me or not. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
Thank you very much. Does anyone have any questions from Mr. Morgenstern? Thank you. Councilman Santiago? 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I think you. Great example for personal decision on your property rights. Commend you for what you are doing. I moved to approve the special exception. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
Motion to up proved by Councilman Santiago, the second is by vice chair Troy. That's all you have? -- I just have a quick comment to you, this is a really good deal for you, for your family, tells her family what you expect on that property. That is a good deal for Volusia County. They join with certainly and say thank you, good job staff for working out with the staff. Councilman Johansson? 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Unfortunately, made me think of a question for Clay. At this point, you have any idea what percentage of the County, where are we? Brad is coming up. So you don't have to guess. 
 
SPEAKER: 
34, 35%. About 3435%. Of the County. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Over 1/3 of the county. 
 
SPEAKER: 
The rule of thumb in the conservation is one-for-one. For ever acre you develop, you should conserve about 1 acre. 50% is or more. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Majority of that, growing up in the middle between these? 
 
SPEAKER: 
30,000s in addition to the 27,000 of Tiger be that run through the center of the county. We will never grow together like the South Florida counties. I will meet with you afterwards. Thank you very much. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
Any other questions or comments? If not, we have a motion on the floor by Councilman Santiago, seconded by Troy Kent approve the special exception, all in favor? Any opposed? And it is approved unanimously. Thank you sir.  
 
Item 7, quasijudicial hearing on special exception for nonprofit organization camp at Camp we now know. 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
Again, this is also quasijudicial. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
I just said that. Any ex parte? (unknown name) many of -- 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
It's an activity for considerable amount of time, occupy 60 acres, utilized for a variety of different organizations and operations. The unfortunate thing is, it is a nonconforming use, the special exception is to address some concerns that were brought up, specifically some accessory structures and construct chair of this stage to assist with the activities. Staff saw this is an opportunity to not only approve the site plan give the opportunity to go to the special exception to this is basically the best in use and continue. Staff, provide this to your planning and development regulation and recommendation of approval. Also coming you with the PLDRC there are members from the public who spoke in favor, if there is any questions from the staff, we would like to answer the. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
There is no one that had any partake to declare. But just to be really clear, I spoke with David Shaw this morning when I saw him, I work with David for six years. I associate him now with YMCA. When I saw him, what are you here for? They told me what it was. That was my discussion with him. He assured me, as did the director of the camp they were not going to ever build condominiums at Camp Winona.  
 
I have caused next door – (Laughs). Any other discussion? We do have one member of the public who would like to speak with us. Why don't we call her up now. Amy (unknown name). 
 
AMY: 
Speaking on behalf of the DeLeon Springs community. This is sort of a, housekeeping issue for camp Winona and for the planning staff. Camp Winona has been serving this county for over 100 years and when the put that camp in over 100 years ago, the land was donated to them, there is no code, no comprehensive plan for them to conform to. Over the years, they have done a tremendous job serving this community, serving this county. When I came before the PLDRC to speak in favor of this, people started talking about the wonderful memories of the things that they have done and things that they have learned when they were children at camp we know now.  
 
What they do for the mind, body, the soul and the spirit of the people who come there is just remarkable. They put every effort into doing the best they can for everyone who comes. That is children and family and individual groups to come on a regular basis. 
 
They are good stewards of the land and always have been. They are good neighbors to those of us who live nearby, they are a great example of how you do things. They have a large piece of property in the woods and could have easily built a stage and not asked for any permission to do that. Instead, Dave Shaw and his organization wanted to do the right thing and come get a permit. 
 
At that time, they realized they did not have a site plan and instantly work towards getting that site plan put in place. This is an example of how we all ought to do it. I cannot say enough good things about Camp Winona and of course we are in the special exemption for nonprofit organization at Camp Wynonna. Thank you. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
Thank you and any other questions? Discussion, motions? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Moved to approve the motion for Camp Winona at 898 de Leon Springs Road. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
Motion by Councilman Reinhart and second by Councilman Johansson. I will call for the vote, all in favor say aye. 
 
(Multiple speakers) 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
Any opposed? Motion carries 7-0, good job Mr. Shaw! This brings us to the third quasijudicial hearing. A rezoning from transitional agricultural to commercial Marina zoning classification that 1905 Huntoon Road, Deland. Does anybody have classifications to declare? We will start here with Don Dempsey? 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
I spoke to the attorneys for the developer. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
OK. 
 
TROY KENT: 
Yes I spoke with the attorneys for the applicant. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Same with me. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
I spoke to the residence but I cannot remember the name. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Yes, I spoke with the applicant and the residents and neighbors. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
OK and I have, as well, spoke with the applicant, spoke with the attorneys and then spoke with the attorneys and the applicant's yesterday in a rather amazing... go ahead, Clay. 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
I also spoke with the neighbors. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Reserves management, and said, this is a request from the community for rezoning and they are seeking the rezoning to address an existing site that was identified with the original adoption for comprehensive planning and activity amongst a rural area. 
 
Specifically because of its proximity to the river and fronting on it and having an existing marina, records show this operation goes back to the 1950s. Since that time, it has gone through different types of applications which were referenced in your staff report and efforts to do similar types of rezoning that was much more intensive use. There were also efforts prior to the economic meltdown we had in the early 2000 to get something going. 
 
What you have now is a property owner coming in and requesting an effort to put in place very specific planned unit development program. It is looking at two phases over the proximity acres and utilizing some of the existing structures for residential as well as marina and docks. 
 
Expanding upon that in regards to the number of wet slips, dry slips, as well as introducing a cabin type of hotel/motel. I know that is an issue concerning too many residents in regards to the term hotel/motel. 
 
You will see in the email that the applicant provided late yesterday as well as previous emails on Friday, they are amenable to be very specific as to what restrictions are tied to the term hotel/motel in terms of who cannot abide, maximum size, etc. 
 
Staff looked at the subject property and comparative to what we've seen in other areas, we have had similar situations up and down St. Johns River. As many of you are aware, through the 50s, 60s and into the 70s, putting in fish camps and RV parks along the river was common practice. How did we address that through our comprehensive plan? 
 
What were seen as many of these other facilities such as Holly Bluff Marina, River Marina, Huntoon landing, these have gone through similar processes to address the rundown of the sites. How can you accommodate continued renovations and improvements to keep the is commercially viable? At the same time, acknowledging that there has to be a balance with residential areas that have occurred around some of these areas. 
 
So the applicant sought to rezone to be able to put in place their development program. Specific limitations on the numbers, heights, etc. As I said, we do have standards identified in the development agreement on page 8 – 23 of your agenda report. 
 
The emails that were sent previously by Mr. (Name) and Mrs. (Name) over Friday and yesterday put additional constraints. If the Council seeks to incorporate those, that would need to be added to the motion, if you are seeking to improve the PUD and feelings to be incorporated, that has to be part of your motion. 
 
As I said, two-phase project with a total of 17 wet slips, for motorized restaurants, nonmotorized slips. We are looking at the number of cabins and fat would be, as referenced in the email we received yesterday, reduced from 17 units down to 12. 
 
The applicant has reduced the overall intensity of the project as of yesterday. They are also talking about adding additional building setbacks from Huntoon Island Road. As part of the analysis staff has to look at, we look generally at the comprehensive plan and zoning regulations. 
 
We need to ensure there is consistency in the criteria. One issue identified and many residents were concerned about this project moving forward has been the impact on the roadway. Hunting Island is a local playing figure approved comprehensive plan. We have identified a level of services for that roadway so we can ensure the residents have a free flow of traffic and can address some of the concerns they have with traffic initiatives. 
 
The applicant provided analysis and that has been determined that the writ of element of the site will not lower the number of service on that roadway. Also this is an environmentally sensitive area and it is important that we have centralized sewer into the city of Deland with a force main. 
 
The applicant has agreed to connect to the force main said the supercenter will be utilized from the city of Deland. Water is also a critical point, this is within the service area of the water authority and they have indicated they can provide potable water to the site. 
 
Given the water contained in the compounds of plan and regulations, as well as issues as they pertain to infrastructure, staff made a recommendation of approval for the development regulation. At the planning development regulation, the public did speak and had concerns in regards to provision of utilities and overall impact on the area. 
 
Additionally, you have received a considerable amount of email and a variety of other information were nearby residents are concerned about the transient nature of hotel use. The impact on the character of the area. 
 
Staff is aware of all of that but it has come forward to you with recommendation for approval from both staff and the planning and regulation commission. The applicant is here and will elaborate on the changes proposed to the development agreement, I will be glad to answer any questions. 
 
We also have our planning staff available. 
 
JEFF BROWER: 
Thank you very much. Let's hear from the applicant's attorney and we will have some questions. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Thank you Mr. Chairman and members of the Council. For the record, Mark (Name) from North Boulevard, Deland. From offices worked on the project and the owner of the property who is with us this morning. I want to start out by thinking your staff, we have worked on this for quite some time trying to get the details right with regards to the application that is before you this morning. 
 
Everyone else on your planning staff did a great job working with us to get to where we are right now. You have a lot of material in your staff report that supports the staff's recommendation of approval. That is before you this morning with unanimous recommendation for approval as well. I did want to address in the past week or so, we became aware of additional concerns being raised from some residents in the area. 
 
Some of those, including those in the HOA petitioned a letter that you will have received. They really deal with some of the concurrency issues that appropriately come as we go so what we are here today is to talk with the zoning for the property moving forward. 
 
As staff detailed and Clay went into detail with the history, I will give you my perspective as a resident of Deland, this is one of the places we always knew about that was used as a restaurant and fish camp. Used to be able to go up and get breakfast and people would go out there and watch thereabouts and spend the day on the river or the day fishing. 
 
Like a lot of the facilities, it has under the cycle. Fire and the restaurant bring down a number of years ago. It has really been kind of on the edge every development for some time. A couple of those plans, I can say this is probably the least intense I have seen with proposed redevelopment on the site and the incremental redevelopment of the site. 
 
We heard a couple of concerns and I wanted to address those. The first one, as we were working with staff with regard to the finding and uses that will be on the property, looking at the cottages, there is common use with a lot of the fish camp, campground tape facilities around the county. We initially defined that as a rental cottage, you know, cottages available for rent as they usually define it in the code element. Transient occupancies. 
 
That is why the term in the development is hotel/motel. Interestingly, the B 7 zoning classification that is already on the existing property closer to the river hotel/motel is permitted use as it is now. As long as it relates to the nature of the property. In order to dissuade some of those concerns about the application, we sent the email on Friday that we can address these concerns and people had a misconception that Hampton Inn or something was coming in on the property at some point in the future. 
 
The hotel/motel use is limited to the cottage is being proposed. So we just said that the hotel/motels are the cottage rental. We will just add that if you choose to incorporate the proposed revisions in the development agreement, those would provide that clarification. 
 
In addition talking with staff, kind of specifying the occupancy would be limited to single-family type occupancy. In other words, you cannot come in and cram 30 people into a cottage, it has to be to scale, six people under your definition of single-family be the maximum occupancy there. 
 
We propose to add a limit on the height so we are clear is one-story, 25 feet. And then I will give you a map if the overhead is turned on, I can put something up there? We met yesterday with Mary Lowery and Susan, two of the owners who are adjacent to the south on the left. 
 
We made some adjustments to address some of their concerns.  
 
-- Families owned the property since the 1940s, 1950s, somewhere in that range. Her house is there, we had a 15 foot landscape buffer adjacent to the property, and undergrowth cottages. 
 
We felt like we could really make some changes to assuage her concerns. 
 
So what this represents is the suggested provisions we are putting in before you, the email. The green represents increasing all the landscape buffers to 25 feet, so there's little bit of extra space. We already talked about including a fence along Ms. Lowery's area where the cottages are. So we can provide that screen and that security as well. 
 
And then increasing the building setback as well. So that you don't have that initial row of cottages that you see on that Southern end, basically would be eliminated. We have to cottages only in the areas CS kind of thought blue on this plan. So that yellow area would be additional building setback to push those away from the surrounding properties. 
 
Ms. Kaplan who was over to the west really was concerned about the proximity to Huntoon. We really have the space, shall be added in or suggest adding in 150 foot building setback from Hontoon to guarantee a minimum separation from where the cottages would begin. 
 
So essentially, the way that the development agreement currently reads, was a month that was originally in your packet was 12 cottages, plus as the existing mobile homes that are on the site H out, as any to be removed because of deterioration and things of that nature, they would only be replaced with additional cottages. There's five existing mobile homes. The ability to buy five additional cottages. Suggested revision would be seven cottages, and the additional five as those mobile homes are removed. 
 
So I think otherwise the darker blue area represents the area where there is currently three RB paths, we have the ability to expand up to nine in that area. 
 
The important thing is what the development agreement does, and this proposed rezoning does, is it adds standards for how things develop moving forward. And requires us to go through and our client to go through that site plan process, so we are guaranteeing our buffers are being installed. 
 
There is already sanitary sewer that comes through the site, I did verify, the question came up that the existing mobile homes that are there are connected to that sanitary sewer system, so they already going to the City of DeLand system. 
 
Is moving forward, we will have to coordinate all of those activities are your staff in the site plan process. 
 
As it relates to the letter he received from the HOA for Quail Hollow and some of the other residents in the area, concerning regarding roads, credential critics overcapacity, water, and varmint production, those are all things we have to look at in detail as we go through the site plan process moving forward from here. 
 
With Zaretta traffic in particular, as Clay mentioned, you do have an elevated level of service that is really aimed at protecting the haunted insula -- Peninsula, C that applies to most of the key roads in the area. 
 
Your answer staff reported tickets, the level of service C recent capacity of 5200 trips a day on that road links, on Hontoon Road. It's at about 1200 with the addition of the 144 trips this would add to the road. You have about 4000 trips available capacity before you get to that limit. 
 
Without I will pause, see if there any questions, there may be some folks that have some thoughts to share from the public, I'm happy to come up and answer any of those questions. Leverage your time, appreciate the effort your staff has gone to working on this. Happy to answer any questions. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
We have a member of the public from the real hollow HOA would like to speak. Jake do you have a question right now for Attorney Watts? 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
I do sir. Mr Watson, real quick. You mentioned the current able homes that are there and that will eventually be replaced by cottages. Is there a specific time line for that? 
 
SPEAKER: 
There was not at this point in time. It would be as they reached that age of fossil absolutes. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Those as we spoke earlier, those mobile homes are currently not on sewer, they are on septic. 
 
SPEAKER: 
They are connected to sewer, I verified with the client. There connected to sewer. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Phenomenal, thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK, no other questions for Mr Watts. At this time. You may get more later. 
 
Judy Garland, if you would care to speak. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Good morning. My name is Judy Grant, I reside at 2756 delivering village. I am the vice president of the Quail Hollow homeowners Association, and speaking on their behalf. 
 
I understand you received our letter of concern, and petitions that we submitted. Just really wanted to summarize the concerns that we have with this proposed rezoning. 
 
Obviously traffic. We are on a dead-end roadway, it's our only evacuation route. We are concerned with the increase in traffic, and especially with large RV vehicles. 
 
The entrance to this development is on a 90° curve, so we are also concerned about the safety concerns of that movement. 
 
Sewer system, I know that we are connected to the city of Deland, but with me today is my neighbor who just had to replace his master bedroom and bathroom flooring, drywall, because of sewer backups. It's not the only one we've had in our neighborhood. We obviously concerned with additional sewer being added to that system, with already having with its capacity. 
 
The areas in the floodplain, is significant portion of it. We are in a flood prone area, in this area. We are concerned with the addition of Phil in the floodplain, it has at will impact our properties as well as the rest of on tonight and. 
 
We are also concerned with water quality. As your former stormwater manager, I was very pleased to see him increase the stormwater feet and resident (Unknown Term) because I know how much that is needed. We also concerned with the quality of Beresford and the St. John's River. 
 
The other, I really appreciate the applicant reducing the density, this was certainly one of our concerns. Was the number of additional transients that will be in our single-family residential neighborhood. 
 
With that, we are respectfully requesting you to deny this rezoning... 
 
**Audio lost** 
 
**Audio restored** 
 
 
SPEAKER: 
And asked the applicant meet with us for any future rezoning. Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you. Jake Johansson. OK, Attorney Watts. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Sir, thank you. Just briefly, and good to see you, it's been a minute. 
 
Again, most of the specific things, traffic, sewer, water capacity, water quality. With regard to how this site moves forward under your process, with regard to the things like traffic safety, BIKETOWN all of those things are required by your land development organizations. In effect we are setting the stage to answer all of those questions as your code requires us to. 
 
With regards to the comments about density and things of that nature one of the things that was instructive for me as I was looking through this and as we worked on it, we are asking for a certain number of uses. I went through the existing two zoning classifications and you see the things in green are the ones that we are asking to keep. 
 
The things in orange are the existing permitted uses we are giving up as part of the request for rezoning property among those bars, boat and Marine engine sales, communication towers not exceeding 70 feet, convenience stores, cultural arts centres, fire stations, fish camps, fish stocks, government civic centres, there is a long list but what we really try to do was drill down 
 
… Single-family housing for the existing ones that are on site until the age out.  
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
-- Traffic, how many are VPATs will there be? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Nine. Nine maximum, less the result was the Redfern applicant to come back and go through this process and amend. But what is being requested this morning would be a maximum of nine. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
You've already dealt with traffic, the amount of traffic that we are not close to exceeding it. Yet... Although there's always neighbors that will say, "You're not here all the time." Traffic seems to always be an issue. 
 
Sewer service, this is DeLand, correct? So you can't really speak to that. 
 
SPEAKER: 
We as part of the process reached out to DeLand to verify whether they have billable capacity, they do have billable capacity, they also in the process of expanding. Doing $80 million expansion to the current plan as well. They have sufficient capacity. There still could be updates required for connecting to their system,... B only advocate to cover the cost of that (away from mic). 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
DeLand so they have adequate capacity right now? I think we just heard from the HOA they would disagree with that. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I don't know about the operations of their specific lift station, that'll be something we have to look at. If this feeds in and ties it with the lift station Quail Hollow, we have to look at working with them to do some upgrades that the city lift station. We would have to work with the city to make sure when we are adding flows to the system if there is an upgrade necessary, we would be response before it. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Is there any fill being brought in? 
 
SPEAKER: 
I exhibit there will be. I don't know volumes or anything of that nature. Location. We shifted the plans, with a looking like with our discussions yesterday. If there was Phil, and the extent to which Phyllis brought in, if any is placed into plan we (Indiscernible). 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
That's the end of my questions. I might have something else to say but I will hold that. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I will note just on the stormwater, commentating storage and storm water, rain or the site has been a strictly been developed without a stormwater management system. The requirement redevelop meant moving forward will bring to bear all current reservations for St. John's and the county relations. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK. Councilman Santiago. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Thank you Mr Chairman, are we done with public comments part of this? 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
I have two more, which like to hear them before you would like to ask questions? 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
yes sir. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Andy Kelly. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Good morning Mr Chairman, numbers of the Council. They could've the opportunity to be here. I'm a resident who lives past this proposal. 
 
This is also a site I recommended to the County to buy when they were buying all the beachside operatives. The deal was by one in the east, by one in the West. It's been a very nice piece of property for the public to have access to the river, to the marina that's there. 
 
I also applied for a 58 vote slips and was approved, because that was what was there prior to that. 
 
After the county did living on it, I wife and I did. In the restaurant part. We wanted to keep it as it was, a small fish With the restaurant. 
 
The only thing, concern I have, (Indiscernible) Waterman, that's the size. That's why Quail Hollow has issues, depending on the pump behind it and backflow preventer's around quail Hollow, it could be a problem. I'm sure the engineers will take care of that. But there probably many. 
 
I only have one request. On your page 822, permitted uses, and I understand Mr Watts has sent an email out saying – the cottages he proposed is all that is going to be asked for. But it's as hotel/motel. I believe and say what you mean and mean what you say. Please strike any potential hotel/motel there. Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you. Suzanne? There you are. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I want to thank everyone I met and everyone who responded to all the emails and everything that I sent out and especially Jake Johansson for coming out and looking at the site. Actually also want to thank Mr. Watts (indiscernible) or meeting with us yesterday and whether there is always a but in the however. 
 
Mr. Jim Teal over here, he is a very intelligent man, he is very smart and his family is very smart and I do not want this to be heard as an attack. My issue is, he has been operating shielded under a trust in LLC and the TRO IRA. I did a little homework on this after our meeting yesterday and what he has been doing is operating businesses on his property owner, falling into his real estate development IRA. That is all legal. Part of operating businesses and but he has not been operating. In the PDP. He was only for one or residential property and he has been operating five. 
 
He has been generating income from that and other (indiscernible) I am not aware of and putting it into his IRA which is tax-free. What I am objecting to is this issue he has not been following the zoning regulations and the permitting regulations number one. Number two, and actually put a note in my mailbox, which means he put his hands in my mailbox. And we know you are not supposed to do that. 
 
He is demonstrated the trend to me of not following the zoning regulations and the laws. My issue is, they are going to be building a landscape buffer zone in front of the property where he is building his 12 cottages, but they're going to follow the regulations. Which means you will still be able to see on the cottages and of the nine RV pads from the street. They freed up property next to, when they only built the cottages they have them right along the main road now and they have this empty lot over on the south side of the undeveloped property. They have not specified what they are going to do with that. 
 
Mr. Watts did tell me, not me he told the meeting. It was not me personally. That they were not going to leave very much empty space there. And one of the other lawyers stated, for the buffer zone they would follow the regulation. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Did you hear the bell go off? 
 
SPEAKER: 
I'm done. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
This is new evidence that we just heard and what did not come up in the PLDRC. 
 
SPEAKER: 
The issue is whether or not the evidence proposal is relevant. (Laughs) There is also, you are not restricted from hearing new evidence at the County Counsel. This is not an appeal. When you have an appeal before, you are restricted to (indiscernible) will report. Here the PLDRC was just a recommendation. Any person can introduce new evidence and proposed new provisions that mitigates for anything that was brought up after the PLDRC. 
 
The only thing I would say is, everything you do must be based on substantial evidence which is something a reasonable mind would view as tending towards the conclusion of approval or denial. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you. Director Arvin? 
 
SPEAKER: 
The application for a rezoning, specifically for PUD does not get into how or what the organization that is making the application makes the money. It is plain and simple, are you the property owner? And do you have unified control over the property? We verify that before we process an application. Any other information in regards to the internal operation of the organization or that person does not have anything to do with whether or not we accept and process. 
 
If Ms Kaplan has found information about his operation internal, that is for other agencies to deal with. We are looking at, rather the property owner? Do they have unified control? Once it meets those requirements, we can proceed. This is why this is in front of you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Before you go, I think Mr. Kelly was not here when we dealt with the hotel/motel designation. Can you speak to that quickly? 
 
SPEAKER: 
We have very specific designations within a category. The reason staff is asking for hotel/motel as it provides continuity with the zoning ordinance and PUD. Mr. Watts has put additional criteria saying it cannot be a multistory and it has to be restricted to 25 feet. It has to be a cabin and can only be restricted to a single family which as defined barcode. Our coats says, no more than six people not related by blood, marriage or adoption. 
 
What you see is they have used our term for the use and put additional constraints to ensure that it is a cabin with a family. No more than one story. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Think you. Go have Mr. Watts. 
 
SPEAKER: 
One thing Ms Kaplan raised. A few minutes ago you had camp Winona. The reason we started this process was that Mr. (Name) went to permit some of the greats to the marina. Likewise it was determined, when those applications came through he needed to go through and rezone the property in order to legitimize the things he was planning to do the property. That is what has led us to this process. We are looking forward to be able to work through your code and your process to go through with the development. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
For me this is a property that is already developed. The property owner is looking to enhance it. I think the property owner and their representatives have gone extremely out of their way to work with staff and some of the interested property owners neighbours. I am satisfied with what we have and Mr. chair I make a motion to approve the rezoning. 
 
TROY KENT: 
Second. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
There is a motion to approve. 
 
SPEAKER: 
You mean to incorporate the conditions identified by the applicant? 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
The prescriptive language. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
That is read by staff. I will amend my motion to add the additional language. 
 
SPEAKER: 
All eight items? I will second that. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Motion to approve… Second by vice chair Kent. Councilman Dempsey? 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
I guess Clay or Paula, do not know who has to answer this but in Mr. Kelly's concerns be addressed in what we are voting on to make sure it reflects that in the PUD? 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
… 
 
SPEAKER: 
The language has been proposed by the applicant on Friday and as of late yesterday has the restriction at the hotel/motel use can only be in a singular cabin of which there is a maximum of 12. And they can only be occupied by single-family and cannot exceed a 25 foot height. All of that will be incorporated into the PUD agreement so that that way they cannot come in with the multistory multiunit hotel. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Exhibit 1, the development agreement you are talking about you do not need that language? 
 
SPEAKER: 
It will be modified to include those restrictions. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Does that satisfy you Mr. Kelly? 
 
I was going to ask him a question. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
You're going to ask Mr. Kelly a question? 
 
SPEAKER: 
I can read minds, talking about the 25 feet that is a typical restriction in all of our single-family zoning. We go upward of 35 feet in some of our single-family's restricting to 25 feet is consistent with what we do for a single-story. If you would like to say 25 feet, or single-story that would be fine. 
 
It already has that. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
I know you met with some of the neighbours, I appreciate you doing your due diligence and trying to protect them. When I met with them that was a concern as well. It is an existing business, it is there. But you still have to be concerned about the surrounding neighbourhoods and how we protect that neighbourhood. 
 
Yesterday as we sat and discussed it with two of the neighbours, especially the woman who lives next door who is very concerned with having cottages that could look into her home, they just move the cottages. Completely moved them from her area, reduced the number. Added more trees than she wanted. She was concerned about the amount of trees. There has to be a buffer to protect. I do not think anyone will see this with the amount of trees, shrubs, plants on the property lines that the county already requires. That is part of our landscape standard. It is not cheap. 
 
But especially here is why it is necessary. 
 
I appreciate the movement that you have made yesterday to protect your neighbour and to be a good neighbour. You have already improved the property. I think this is going to be another great improvement on it and it is much better than a convenience store that could have been there. 
 
Jake Johansson? Everybody is still up, you might be done. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
No sir. Real quick before we vote, I would like to... I always talk about people getting together to solve the problems before it comes to counsel. Mark thank you for meeting after our conversation and the applicant. Susan and Mary, thank you for your time and inviting me into Mary's house to discuss these issues. 
 
I know the applicant did not get quite as much as he wants and I know the neighbours did not get quite as much as they want. But I believe in the end that there is a happy medium here that everybody can learn to adjust to. So I appreciate everyone working together. 
 
This is the greatest part for me about governing. When people can get together and come to a mutual conclusion. Maybe not a solution. Thank you very much. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you. Vice chair Kent? 
 
TROY KENT: 
Just a couple of brief comments. First of all Judy, I have not seen you in about 17 years from our time stomping around in Orman. When you stepped into the chambers and recognize you immediately, haven't changed a bit. Great to see you. 
 
To the applicant I have never met you before, I do not know you. But I commend you for making changes to be a better neighbour. I think that, not that you need to hear this, but I think the lawyers and the law firm you hired did a great job as well trying… 
 
I have to tell you, I love that this was already on sewer and also, I think the nine spots for RVs, or a guy who for about 12 years camped with his young family and we travelled this country with our travel trailer. I am the guy who needs my camper, memory maker. I had it written on it. I love that and I love that you are going to provide a location for people to make memories right here in Volusia County with their families. 
 
There are those that, they do not want to be in a camper. They want to be in one of your cottages and mellow that as well. Thank you for being a good neighbour. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
My last concern, question because I do not know if you know the answer to this. The thing that still hangs out there is inadequate sewer, which is already being experienced at Quail Hollow. Will this process, has kind of reveal that. Will it, could it prevent this from going forward if the city of DeLand is not able to provide adequate service? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Sure. At some point hopefully we will turn this over to the engineers and they ultimately have to design something that works. And of the city has to approve it to connect to their system. If there are upgrades necessary and proved too costly, they could prove technically infeasible. We will have to solve that problem with this sets the stage. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Johansson? 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
One final comment regarding that. I am not familiar with Quail Hollow. I will be asking a few questions in the next staff meeting and they might have to go to eland how many homes are in Quail Hollow, 950? 
 
If one had a sewer backup, I do not want to jump to the conclusion that there is obviously a sewer problem. It is something worth looking at but it is not, "we have a sewer problem." Maybe the home has a sewer problem. Maybe it is out to the road, that part of it. Let's not jump to the conclusion that there is a sewer problem out there and start thinking that way. One home does not make a sewer problem. Many homes, might have a problem. Thank you.  
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
We have a motion on the table to approve the changing of the zoning with prescriptive language included, we've discussed. All in favor say Aye. Any opposed? It is approved 7:0. Thank you. 
 
And that brings us to item 9, which is not a quasi-judicial hearing. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Moved to approve. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Resolution involving (Indiscernible) exposure for GFL Environmental. Before I hear your motion, please tell us about it. 
 
SPEAKER: 
It is a nonexclusive commercial solid waste collection franchise award at the JFO, and is better gravity wanted to $125,000. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
History motion? 
 
Motion to approve by Councilman Santiago, second by Matt Reinhart. Questions? Concerns? All in favor say I? 
 
Motion carries 7:0. 
 
-10, modification of contract with T & K Construction LLC for Tomoka Farms Road landfills, Southeast expansion stormwater management system. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Chairman. I'm sorry, you guys know I'm wearing hearing aids, I can't hear when there is stuff in the background. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
We will pause for a minute and let them clear the room. Give spend time to figure out what he's going to say stop 
 
(Laughter) 
 
BENJAMIN BARTLETT: 
Ben Bartlett public works director, before you today is awarding of second phase, actually it is a contract amendment for the design build project for our stormwater system for the new landfill cell out of the Tomoka Farms landfill. It is proximally 271 acres. 
 
The stormwater system would serve the entirety of the 270 acres that will be used to provide 100 years of landfill disposal capacity. We have attained the required state permits. It is funded through ARPA funds, direct ARPA funds, as well as the solid waste fund. We will most likely – you will see an agenda item here in the next few meetings we will be attending at that service to the remaining portion of this. 
 
Council did approve the design phase of this project back in March. They have been working through it. Finalizing the plans. 
 
Good news on this, we were able to value engineer about $3.4 million of cost, it will enhance our landfill operations that minimize the amount of infrastructure we have to maintain. And like I said earlier, we will return with a debt issuance request from the Council. 
 
We recommend approval, I would be happy to answer any questions you might have. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you, ultimate Santiago? 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
moved to approve. 
 
TROY KENT: 
Second. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
We have a motion to approve as written by David Santiago. The second was by Troy Kent. 
 
I see Ryan, can you just briefly describe what the debt... How was it written here? What the debt proceeds will be for the structure? He can (Laughs). 
 
BENJAMIN BARTLETT: 
I will let the CFO answer the question. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Good morning Council, (Indiscernible) financial officer. The proposed debt will be a capital improvement note, which would be proposed to be a covenant to budget and appropriate available non-(Indiscernible) revenues which would be specifically the revenues of solid waste system. 
 
It isn't as of it is that there will be a $10 million debt issuance to make up the piece that is not funded by ARPA. And given the long life of the system, we are proposing it at a 20 year repayment schedule. To repay the debt. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you very much. I just think that's an important... This is a lot of money, but it's absolutely necessary unless we want to put garbage on a ship and sent it out to the ocean and call it reef. We really don't have a choice. It's a good plan. 
 
I have a questions for Ben Bartlett? 
 
We have motion to approve by David Santiago, second by Troy Kent. All in favor say Aye. Opposed? Motion carries 7:0. 
 
Item 11, approval of contract with Stearns Conrad and Schmidt consulting engineers for professional engineering services for the Tomoka Farms Road landfill. 
 
BENJAMIN BARTLETT: 
Ben Bartlett, public works director again. Once we complete the storm water system further 270 acres, we will need to actually go in and construct the actual disposal cell, the 270 acres will be comprised of multiple disposal cells. 
 
The first of which will be this 20 acres. This is a contract to award the design and permitting for that. So the liner that goes in, the leachate system, the gas system, all that stuff that has to occur. This is the design of that. 
 
As we are constructing the storm water system they will be designing this, it will be back in about 18 months on the storm water system is complete and we are ready to go with construction on this cell. Once the cell is constructed we will be putting garbage in there. 
 
And we recommend approval of this contract to this consultant SES. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you, any questions for Ben Bartlett? Is there emotion? 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Motion to approve. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Motion to approve David Santiago, second Councilman Reinhart. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Want to see if we have naming rights, I have some suggestions. 
 
(Laughter) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
For the landfill? 
 
BENJAMIN BARTLETT: 
As long as you don't call it a dump, anything that is the landfill. 
 
(Laughter) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
All in favor say Aye. Any opposed? The contract is approved 7:0. 
 
Which brings us to item 12, another contract with Wharton-Smith for professional construction management and general contracting services for the Southwest regional water reclamation facility expansion. Ben Bartlett. 
 
BENJAMIN BARTLETT: 
Ben Bartlett, public works director. This is phase 1 of the construction fairer expansion of the Southwest wastewater facility down in DeBary. 
 
Just a quick explosion of how we got here. Selected the CNG in February, approved party of the preconception services. Now we are ready to move forward with construction, which is Part B. This is phase 1 of Part B. We expect to come back with phase 2 and a couple months. Final completion will be a couple years from now. 
 
This is a major expansion of this facility. Anticipate increasing flows through not just development in DeBary, but as part of their plan to septic to super conversions, as part of the B map process for Gemini and blue Springs. 
 
This is kind of a run-down of what were looking at as far as phase 1. Guaranteed prices just under $21 million. 
 
Moving forward this is the funding. We have Michael Ulrich and his team have done a fantastic drop of obtaining grants to offset the cost associated with this from the DEP and water management District, as well as direct funding from ARPA funds. 
 
And moving forward, we can expect the second GMP to come in. The total project construction cost will be just under $75 million. We recommended approval of this Part B phase 1, and I would be happy to answer any questions you might have. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you, questions for Ben? Jake Johansson. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Thank you sir, when you said this is part of the septic to sewer program. How serious are we going to be once we get this in, on getting people off of septic and on to sewer? Are we going to be laissez-faire about it or are we going to be trying to find ways of DPN St. John's to get the right people to buy and get hooked up right away? 
 
BENJAMIN BARTLETT: 
On the west side of the county 03 outstanding Florida Springs. Gemini and DeLeon and blue. 
 
We talked about DeLeon, it's mostly rural, is not essential super out there. We did is a project up there. 
 
Down in DeBary, we have worked with the city as the utility provider, they are required by the be map to have the process by which they are going to reduce the nutrient loading into the springs. Because the Gemini Springs you is primarily loaded by septic systems, emergence from them. 
 
We already worked out a feasibility study and a plan that involves converting multiple properties near Gemini Springs to centralized sewer system. That the city of DeBary, working with them, and that is the direction they want to go. And as I usually provide a real going with them on that. 
 
To answer your question, the B map is kind of pushing the city of DeBary into this super conversion, away from septic. And we will be partnering with them to aggressively pursue any and all grants available to get those folks converted over. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
My main concern is that the city is on board, the county is on board. We spent these hundreds of millions of dollars to get something done, and the end users, like I just bought my septic tank. I'm good for another 20 years. Depending on the city, we do or don't charge them and availability fee. So there is no reason to really go to sewer. Which is why we are doing this in the first place. 
 
BENJAMIN BARTLETT: 
Correct, will it is part of the reason. We need to upgrade the capacity of this plan. Just because of the div element that's planned for city of DeBary, things like that. The additional flows that are coming. 
 
We are increasing the amount of reclaimed water storage out there. There are dry times, there's unavailability issue with recline, so that will enhance that. 
 
So it's not all for septic to sewer, it is a component for the reasoning of this process. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Audit, just put Sharon and Mr Rose amount on call, (Indiscernible) happy to get those people on septic, or unsavory. Pardon me. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Katzman Santiago. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
moved to approve. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Motion to approve by David Santiago, seconded by Vice-Chair Kent. 
 
Any further discussion? I see Jake's name up. OK. No further discussion, no questions. All in favor say Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries 7:0. 
 
Good job Mike. 
 
Item 13, contract with Hedreich Brothers construction Company Inc. for the construction, management general contracting for the Marine Science Center education building additions. Tat. 
 
TADD KASBEER: 
Tadd Kasbeer, County engineer. This is approval of Part B of the sea NGC contract with the Hedreich brothers working on the marine science education building additions and alterations. 
 
To 4.2 million, portion of that is ECHO funds and a portion his county funds. Many questions? 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Questions? Matt Reinhart. 
 
Motion to approve the Councilman Reinhart, second by Councilman Santiago. Are there any questions? There are not. Discussion. 
 
All in favor say Aye. Any opposed? Contract with Hedreich Brothers construction is approved. Thank you. 
 
Item 14, resolution authorizing dissolution of the Library Advisory Board. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Good morning Mr Chair, members of Council, Russ Brown, activity attorney. As directed by counsel back in March, Council identified some of it – make advisory boards to consider whether you would like to keep them or change them, faced them out. This is one of those boards before you. To bring back. 
 
Attached is a resolution that if Council decides today to sunset the Library Advisory Board, resolution would dissolve the board. 
 
I have with me staff here today in the back, Mr Burbaugh and his colleague if you have any substantive questions about the library. Otherwise the resolution is before you if you decide to dissolve the board. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Questions? Councilman Santiago. Tetiana mac if someone can answer, in the event we pass this, with third still be advisory tub? I think it's called friends of the library organization. Can you describe what will they could potentially play? 
 
SPEAKER: 
There will still be a feedback I consume from the public, it will not be in the sunshine because we treat our friends of the library groups as separate entities from the county. 11 of our 14 branches have friends groups. So they are active, they The Council of Presidents of that group can meet sometimes. The engager Library Services director regularly and provide aggressive feedback that we're looking for.  
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
There will still be an avenue for active participation for members of the public that are interested in library services? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Yes. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Three names up and may offer questions. Matt Reinhart? 
 
MATT REINHART: 
I have received several emails with respect to the library and of course all of them are concerned with the fact that we are taking public involvement away but you bring up a very good point that the current library board has to fall under sunshine. The friends of the library does not. Can someone reach out to an individual and make sure she is part of friends of the library? You know who I am referring to 
 
SPEAKER: 
Most of our members are members of the friends of library groups at the respective branches. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
I think that was the concern of Mr. Johansson's as they could get more accomplished being able to discuss things. 
 
SPEAKER: 
If I may provide some context, as Suzanne mentioned during the briefings the library advisory Board was created when we consolidated to a countywide system. But really the libraries of the 21st century our community engaged libraries. They are looking at the local needs of the community they are embedded. 
 
Having a board locally, is adventitious coming from a grassroots education organizations UF, then in larger systemwide advisory boards. But that is my opinion. Advisory board members will probably run me out of town. 
 
(LAUGHTER) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Dempsey? 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
Curious how much does it cost the county to have this board? 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Lawyer time. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Our director of the program. We have a staff assistant to does minutes. Four times a year maybe? 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
These are all accounted by the Council so they can change on a yearly basis. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Two years. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Is being part of the sunshine disclosure really a bad thing? Is there some big -2 that that is really hindering the counter's ability to function? 
 
SPEAKER: 
I think it was a comment by one of your colleagues. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Some of the members on there are retiring librarians. What mechanisms do we have in place now, what I am kind of seeing is the modernization of libraries and reading. Everything seems to be digitized. I see somewhere in the future that may be we won't have necessarily books as we will digital media in the library's. 
 
Is there any way we are keeping up with modern trends and libraries? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Absolutely. I would say we have one of the best libraries in the state. We would love to have you come out to some of our libraries. They are community gathering points. We may be go online but there is something about having something in front of you as well. For example, we had 600 visits per day at the DeLand Library this summer. That tells you how busy our libraries are and how people use it as a community gather base with their kids. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
My family uses that as well. Thank you. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
I'm holding for comment. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman San Diego? 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I move the resolution for the designation of the library board. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Second Johansson. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Motion to dissolve the board by San Diego and second by Jake Johansson we have a member who wants to speak from the public. Let's hear from her, Deborah Du Bois.  
 
SPEAKER: 
I am Deborah Du Bois, I have 40 years of experience in public libraries and I am a member of the advisory Board, obviously. I moved to Volusia County two years ago and apply to the library advisory Board because I wanted to get involved and give service to my community. The current library board has represented us from five-county districts one large represented advice and information to the library from the County citizens point of view. 
 
Our members are from all areas of the county in different walks of life so he can represent a wide range of viewpoints on behalf of their constituents. We are an active board that meets regularly, helping the library at no cost to the county. Board members are volunteers who are interested in helping library improved services and programs. None of the members are paid for their time. 
 
The Library advisory Board saves you time by making recommendations related to the library that you and your staff do not need to research. We can also bring ideas for programs and services to better meet the informational needs of our community. 
 
Citizen involvement in government is a major tenant of democracy and that the public library is an important component of a strong democracy, providing for the needs of an informed electorate. Giving citizens a role in advising the library makes a democracy stronger. There is no benefit to the county and dissolving the library advisory Board. 
 
I respectfully ask you to retain the library advisory Board. Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Johansson? 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
A few comments. Two questions, these are for you Senator or Doctor (Name). How often do you have informal conversations with them or other members on the advisory Board? 
 
SPEAKER: 
A couple of them I do quite frequently. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Quite frequently? One-on-one? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Yes. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
And then you meet quarterly? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Yes. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
But some of them talk to you often? Two of them can't get together and talk to you because they are outside the sunshine that is the only question. 
 
My intent, and this goes out to the library advisory Board and the library itself and staff. My intent in bringing this up is not to make citizen involvement go away. My intent is to give you the flexibility to meet with Lucinda or the friends of the library with specific librarians in groups of two or three without breaking the sunshine. 
 
The reason I brought it up is because, I saw the sunshine being broken. You cannot look at the list of people on the board see two of them talking to a librarian. And go, "wait a minute I cannot do that. Nobody else can do it." This is a move to give them the freedom to come up in groups of two, three, four, 547. Or with the friends of the library. Our library staff, which I frequent often the Port Orange one. I'm sure they call every time I leave to tell you what I mentioned. 
 
They are so welcoming to comments. Not because of who I am. I see other people mention as well. I'm giving them a little bit more flexibility, more opportunity to operate I fear the way they currently are, which is occasionally scurrying the Sunshine Law. Nothing else will change. If our current library advisory Board gets together and meet with Lucinda and Lucinda says you are not part of the advisory Board so I'm not doing that anymore you can come right up here and tell us. 
 
I'm sure Doctor (Name) will hit us up first and say, let's solve this. I will tell you's staff does not want anything to get to County Counsel which they can fix by themselves. It is not my intent to get rid of you because I do not like what you are doing. My intent is to provide you an easier way to communicate more often, as a group with your libraries and your staff to get things done. That is all I have, thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman San Diego? 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I want to add, this does not end citizen involvement. There is already a mechanism in place. I think it might encourage others to step up and participate more and grow folks that are involved or advising giving opinion on the library. 
 
The pain points but some of us might be suffering, it goes back to nothing lasts longer than a government program. The question is, do we need it in the same capacity as it sits today? Nothing I have seen in the information that has been given to me, tells me we have to keep it in its current capacity. The next steps still allow for a lot of citizen engagement so I think it is the right move. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Dempsey? 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
Has there been an issue with sunshine law violations with the library board? 
 
SPEAKER: 
No 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
Has not been in existence? 
 
SPEAKER: 
I believe since the 80s. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you. Any other comments? We have a motion. 
 
Let's open it up for comments and debate. Councilman Don Dempsey? 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
Basically what Jake is saying can be true of many of these committees, boards. I hate to see us lose a group of, we vet these people and get them together to evaluate the current library system and make recommendations. 
 
I do not think and it does not cost us anything. And there has not been any problems in four years approximately. So I do not know what the problem of having it is. We have a retired librarian at the meetings as well as here today. I think it is commendable that she has a place to meet with others. 
 
Obviously it is a more, I do not know. It is probably a better platform to speak from as they are speaking from the library board as opposed to an individual citizen or different citizens. We do not know this private organization, the fronts of the library. Who runs the show there? Who is calling the shots? What is going on internally there? Do they have a secret agenda we do not know about? Maybe they are for or against - I do not know. 
 
But at least these members of the library board are appointed by the elected officials. There is a lot more transparency. Being that libraries sometimes are hot topics, I think it would be nice to keep it in place. Just be subject to scrutiny more so than just by eliminating it. Thanks. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Council in Santiago? 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I appreciate your arguments but I do not think we are losing anything. They are purely advisory, they can speak to the head of the library. She speaks to Brad to speak to George to speak to us. There is still a mechanism. 
 
Sometimes they become hot topics. I would rather this board deal with hot topics. Because sometimes hot topics can get legs of its own. I'm not saying any specific to this board, but outside of our control, hot topics can get out of control. We are the one selected and accountable to deal with hot topics. 
 
I do not think this guy is going to fall. I am going to bet that she is going to stay friends of the library and give us all her knowledge. That question, in my opinion your commitment to the library. But, I think that people will still be engaged and others will. Thank you Mr. chair. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Dempsey? 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
Is it Du Bois? Can I come ask her to come up and ask why she does not want to join friends of the library and why she said what you said to Mr. San Diego. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I did not say I did not want to join friends of the library. I did actually look into joining friends when I first came here. I found out that there are 11 different friends groups. I use more than one library. 
 
I use the library Daytona, into land in Lake Helen. They all have different friends groups -- DeLand the reason I have not joined to the friends is because it is not one group. So which one would I join? That is part of the reason I would not join the friends. I will still be involved in the library, I will still make suggestions whether you keep the library board or not. But I do think, as Mr. Dempsey said, having of vetted group of volunteers was the friends of the library are not necessarily and having people who respond to you, other than just the staff. That gives the citizens another way to have their say. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Johansson?  
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
There are a lot of things our county does, and we don't have advisory boards for all of them. 
 
I know enough about my local library and my few conversations with our director here, that... Although I've never called her on the phone, she's always been accessible. And even before I was a councilmember, the library was always accessible. 
 
I don't think we are going to lose any situational awareness of what is going on in our library by getting rid of (Indiscernible). 
 
Does it hurt to keep it? Maybe not. But every Advisory Board. Anything in my opinion, anything that is inside of the sunshine is a level, or a layer of government. I don't like government, I wish we weren't here. Government is just delay. And if I can get rid of, and make a bunch of very important people more nimble and flexible by being able to meet with the people they need to meet, then I think that is the direction that I want to go. 
 
And I will be the first to say that the second that the librarian, or Dr Burbaugh says "Too bad, so sad, not a committee anymore." Is the second I will put it back on the agenda to get it back, to make sure we are back on track. But I don't think that is going to happen. 
 
Thank you, I think we are wrapping this up. I'm just going to say Don, thank you for asking those questions. I get for participating. It was a little unusual but it was important. 
 
Actually is a cost to this board, just in staff time and lawyer time. The question becomes is it worth it? Are the libraries really important? 
 
I was really leaning towards illuminating this because of the Friends of the Library board. But what you just stated with 11 different groups, that's pretty complicated. I would like to see The Friends get together and maybe make one, because Donnie does raise a question do they have a secret agenda? If there are 11 different groups, what are the motives of each group? Maybe it is just geography, I don't know. So that's concerning. 
 
I was going to say I don't see any other questions or debate. There is one more, Vice-Chair Kent. 
 
TROY KENT: 
Thank you Chairman, I just think it is a extremely important time to just publicly say my thoughts are public library system in Volusia County, which I think is an incredible program. 
 
People have come a lot of people have no idea what our library systems offer. And there are many people who do understand what we offer. 
 
It is mind-boggling, it is incredible, it is free for our residents. And I don't know you, but you are doing a wonderful job of making sure our library system is top-notch. 
 
I would be remiss if I didn't talk about Ormond Beach's Labra system, I believe is the most highly utilized library system and all of Volusia County. And the places just jammed up all the time. 
 
So with that chairman, it's interesting because I, like you, was leaning towards an agreement to dismiss this board. But Don Dempsey again is you know, pulling on me over here with his comments that are just loaded in common sense. And I appreciate that. 
 
I'm still truly Dr Brown going to go with this until the vote comes, to be we need to do a voice vote on this one. But thanks for making me think more about it Don. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
We will do, I think a voice vote is appropriate, but there's a little surprise here. I learned the corrections has a library, we haven't heard anything from corrections. 
 
(Laughter) 
 
TROY KENT: 
I wonder if there's anybody that can talk to us about that. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Is that actually part of the library system? OK, it's not (Laughs). 
 
OK, we have heard good debate on both sides. The library is really important, and we absolutely need citizen input. So let's just call for the vote. Karissa would you call the roll. 
 
KARISSA GREEN: 
Mr Dempsey. Mr Johansson. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Yes. 
 
TROY KENT: 
Yes. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
Yes. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Yes. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Yes. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
No. But the board is dissolved with a vote of 5:2. 
 
Let's do one more before we take a break. 
 
(Multiple speakers) 
 
SPEAKER: 
(Away from mic) there also advisory board issues and that to be changed by ordinance, intimate based on the length. They can't be seen before them. Recognition would be you can skip if you want to come or another item, number 17 I think. 
 
SPEAKER: 
17 and remainder of the agenda you can take up at any time. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Are we also ready in the back? Are you hungry (Laughs)? 
 
OK, item... I'm just reading it real quick. You think that's going to be fast? 
 
Item 17. Budget resolution updating ECHO Direct County Expenditure Plan. And we do have one member of the public that would like to speak to that. We will hear about ECHO first from Doctor Brad Burbaugh. 
 
BRADLEY BURBAUGH: 
Yes sir, there is a PowerPoint explaining the plan, it's a strategic investment plan covers five years. In the agenda item as well as a description of each of the projects that are being proposed and how they align with the ballot language. Happy to answer any questions Council has. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Robins. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Motion to accept. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Motion to accept by Councilman Robins, second by Councilman Santiago. 
 
And I will just add that, or just say there's is a list of projects are, not written in stone. Councilman Ken, updated, change it if we see the need. 
 
This is really smart I think. It gives us direction, we are heading in one direction. We know what we are doing. It is efficient. So I am in favor of this as well. 
 
Councilman Robins? No, OK. 
 
Then all in favor... Pardon me? 
 
I'm sorry, thank you. John, that was not on purpose. John Nicholson. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Not that anyone would believe that. John Nicholson, Beachside. 
 
I don't know what the projects are, but I do know the city of Daytona Beach is having meetings. They have 600 acres, not only are they looking at that 600 acres, you're also looking at revamping the entire area services. 
 
We had a project, I think it's Orange City with some baseball fields and some were not. Have we come I don't know if we did or not, we may have. 
 
If we look at all of our cities, and the county, what they have, what they need. You understand? Record needing basically is what I'm asking, because we don't want to pile up all of, Don Dempsey says... 
 
Everything goes to the east side, and there is nothing on the west side. I know we are balancing that, we can do the same thing with facilities. We could have all the baseball fields, warm it has some fantastic fields. We have enough spread out? Are they in the appropriate locations? That is basically what I'm asking, did we do our due diligence? 
 
Because we've always had too much money in the ECHO. We need to spend it. This is a great way of doing it, to the benefit of everybody. But I'm asking if we (Indiscernible). Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK, thank you. 
 
Budget resolution updated ECHO Direct County Expenditure Plan we have a motion to approve by Councilman Robins, second by Councilman Santiago. Don Dempsey. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
The baseball fields and soccer fields down there, I think it's Harley Strickland. Down there in Veterans Memorial Parkway, Orange City. Is that on here? 
 
SPEAKER: 
No it's not. EPSY McCarver going to be able to...? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Council has directed staff to meet with our partners, our municipal partners, because we want them to have some skin in the game. We are meeting with those individuals and were going to bring back a phased approach and recognition at that time, you can make a decision to added to this list. 
 
TABBY J: 
There will still be funds available to support it? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Yes sir. 
 
TABBY J: 
OK. Tronick -- 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
question from David Santiago. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Brad, that facility is also part of the study that is happening also. 
 
SPEAKER: 
They give the results of the study. This council recommended Tim and I to meet with her municipal partner, see if perhaps one wanted to operate it or contribute to funding it. And we're doing those meetings now. We will come back. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Perfect, I'm glad you brought it up Don. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK. So it can be added. There is no other... Don are you good? OK. 
 
All in favor of the expanded plan say Aye. Any opposed? And that carries 7:0. 
 
Maybe we can do one more? 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Chair I would like to make a motion to go to lunch. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
We have a motion to go to lunch. And a second. 
 
TROY KENT: 
Chairman, the only problem with that is we can't come back on a couple of items until 1:30 PM. 
 
I would just say, I would recommend if someone needs a snack something go grab it now. I would recommend we knock out 19 and 20. And if we still have a little bit of time, possibly even 18. 
 
I just... I think for a streamlined approach I think we will be OK if we knock at least those two out. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
We had a motion and a second to adjourn form lunch, so let's take a vote. All in favor. Karissa, called a roll please. 
 
KARISSA GREEN: 
Mr Jencey? Dempsey mac no. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Yes. 
 
TROY KENT: 
No. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
Yes. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
(Indiscernible). 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
No. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
No. 
 
So the motion is not passed. Jake, are you prepared to make an appointment to the West Volusia tourism as a authority? 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
I believe... I believe I can be in a second. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
You want to do 21st? 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Let's do 21st. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Mr Chair, just for the record you skipped 18, 11 to 19 and 20, is that correct? 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Yes. 
 
KARISSA GREEN: 
Mr Johansson, Sawers movement is a (Indiscernible) advertising 30, there's only one applicant, the name is eat and carry ended live in District 3. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
So you can continue to search for care to for appointment. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Let's go to 20 please. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Item 20 appointment is a Daytona Beach racing and recreation facilities, I believe we have one applicant for that as well. 
 
KARISSA GREEN: 
Correct, you do have one applicant. There name is Michael (Unknown Name). 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
German I would like to nominate Michael (Unknown Name) to the Daytona Beach Racing and Recreational Facilities Authority. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
We have nomination of Michael by Councilman Johansson, second by Vice-Chair Kent. Any questions or discussion? All in favor say Aye. Opposed? He is appointed unanimously 7:0. 
 
Are you ready for 19? 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Yes sir. Would like to nominate Ian Kerry to the West Volusia Tourism Advertising Authority. 
 
TROY KENT: 
Second that chairman. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Is it Ian? Ian Kerry. Nomination made by Jake Johansson, seconded by Vice-Chair Kent. Questions, comments? All in favor say Aye. Any opposed? That nomination is passed 7:0.  
 
We will break for lunch then and come back for discussion on trim rates. We have historic preservation board. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
You don't think we can get through that in 45 minutes? Otherwise we are looking at not coming back until 1:30 PM. We had our lunch down to 30 minutes now I think. Unless my memory is wrong? 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Most of the time we do. I am fine with that. I was trying to give some deference to the people whose stomachs are growling. But I do not think it would take that long. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Can we deal with 18 before 1:30 PM? 
 
(Multiple speakers) 
 
MATT REINHART: 
I was suggesting we tackle number 18. Unless the Council things differently I think we can get it done in 45 minutes? 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Can you do it? Four hours are plenty. 
 
(LAUGHTER) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Ok. Let's pick up. We can probably finish everything. We still have to come back at 1:30 PM. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
Thank you chairman. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Item 18 fiscal year budget overview. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Good afternoon counsel. Deputy Finance Director. You have had this in your agenda packet, I will not go through every slide is normal. I will just hit on a couple of keynotes. This is for the submission of the 24/25 budget which will be placed in your drop bucket at the end of the day and multiple places on our website by the closing of today. 
 
This is based on July 1 values from the appraisal offer us and gives us a look at the operating budget which totals 1.3 billion. Important to note, the nonoperating budget is funded most exclusively from transfers from the operating budget. To add those two numbers together would be an overstatement. 
 
This gives you your countywide operating revenues, I will not go through the revenues or the expenditures unless you have questions you want to go through. This gives you the county's taxable value by property class and this is based strictly on information from the appraisal website. 
 
This gives you your ad valorem tax by fund. The only thing I will point out is the CRA pass-through at the top of the screen. It is the actual CRA payment, 12.1 million. We use sales tax to offset the law-enforcement portion of the CRA so whatever is levied in the law-enforcement fund is strictly for law enforcement. That is the little difference there. 
 
This gives you the history of the county millage rates for the last 10 years and where we are at recommending for this year. This gives you the tentative millage rates that will be printed on the trim notices. The trim notices will go up August to all residents. The rates cannot be raised after being set but they can be lowered. This gives you a look at where we are recommending the rates and how they compared to last year. 
 
And then we need you to set the first and second public budget hearings today as well. We are recommending the September 3 and September 17 dates. You already have Council meetings on that day, of course the budget hearings we would schedule for six of clock and they cannot conflict with the school board hearing on September 10. 
 
The remaining steps in the process on August 20 we will have the added authorities and for their presentations and if you accept those days we will have the public hearings on those as well. We will take any questions you have? 
 
TROY KENT: 
No questions just a quick comment to our finance team. You gentlemen are a well oiled machine and you do a fantastic job on getting us the numbers and they are accurate. I publicly wanted to thank you both Ryan and Aaron for the professionalism. And your ability to get back to, I would say all of us, but I can speak for myself in a rather expeditious manner. Any time a call or reach out. Publicly I want to say thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
I will concur with that. This is probably the cleanest budget season we have had so far. You guys are really getting better at it (Laughs) I thought you would appreciate that. 
 
But I will say, part of the reason for that, part of what happened is not just the budget staff but the entire County staff has listened to the board and they know where we were going and the direction. You've adequately responded. 
 
It can still change right now this is good news for taxpayers. It was not easy to do. It is never easy to cut spending when everything around you is going up. Well done. Councilman Robbins? 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Thank you chair. (indiscernible) I talked to you guys briefly about our roads tax and how we are going to fund some of them and knocking some off the list here. Do we have any projections were you able to put anything together in terms of if there is any, what village if we did not go to a full rollback? What would we be looking at how much and what projects we can potentially - know there are some roads that need to be addressed. 
 
SPEAKER: 
While Aaron is pulling up the spreadsheet I want to clarify one thing. We are at a partial rollback which is equivalent to the full back plus (indiscernible). To go about full rollback. The rate that is proposed in the general fund is what rollback would be with an addition of Sunray. Aaron is pulling up the spreadsheet to show what villages would present in. 
 
SPEAKER: 
For every million dollars you want to add to the row program would be 0.01.7 Mills added to the rate we recommend.  
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Repeat that number?? 
 
SPEAKER: 
0.071. 
 
SPEAKER: 
We did some math that said it would be 0.0855 would get you 5 million. Which the significance of that is about a mile of road expansion. You could add that and still be a small rate reduction. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Council what I am pretty much looking at, I know in my district I have several roads that are not critical but well on their way that needs some attention. I know LP (Name) has been an issue for years. I should not say issue but a topic of discussion and there are many others. 
 
Would it be behoove us to get a plan in place today if we are talking about nickels and a cents setting aside additional monies to actually start knocking out some of these road projects? I am curious to see what folks are thinking? 
 
We keep kicking the can down the road. But meanwhile these problems still exist. I'm curious to see what folks have to say if they would be open to talking about that? 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Johansson? 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
I will wait for comments, if someone has a question. I have much to say about that comment. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
We have a question from Councilman Santiago. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Thank you and if you can leave me up for a comment after my colleagues go. Just to address Danny's questioning. I know he did not go into specific roads, is there a number of there back and tell us how many road projects we still have? 
 
SPEAKER: 
We are a little bit ahead the cart ahead of the horse. They will bring the road program to hear in August. 
 
SPEAKER: 
We met individually with (indiscernible) and then do the public's own meetings and come back. 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
That is the typical process. 
 
One thing about this money is if it comes in this direction, like the regular gas tax, you have certain gas taxes with certain restrictions, it could be used County wide to supplement projects that are being paid for sale with impact fees or prop share tight monies. 
 
A lot of our problems get into as you saw, each zone has different funding. And then you try to add different funding sources together to put together a project. This would be another tool. You would have to do that. There is also safety projects that do not have much funding. If you want to set it to something directly, dirt road reduction is another one. One time was funded a lot more robustly from the new nickel. The downturn occurred and money went in another direction. 
 
You get into things. And now there are certain subdivisions out there that are in bad shape and could use maybe extra funding in those areas to look at also the drainage associated. One thing is, roads and drainage are married together. Something else to think about. It is another tool when we look at upgrading the road, to upgrade the drainage in that particular… 
 
SPEAKER: 
Thank you County manager. We raised impact fees quite a bit. Sales tax is always the off the table, I do not want to go there. Gas tax only goes so far. The stormwater fees. I know I brought it up about six months ago, to start finding funds from the general fund. Because we are actually one of the few counties that does not... I'm just going over my notes here, that does not have road funds monies coming out of the property tax that goes towards the rule program. Where it can be used anywhere and not as George was saying, limited to a specific zone. That is what I am looking to talk about with you guys. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Johansson? 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Everybody down there questions? 
 
SPEAKER: 
I have a question. 
 
TROY KENT: 
Do we have a dedicated millage… 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
Not at this time. We are one of the few counties that does not put general fund tax. I will say, it would not be accurate to say no property tax because the MST, there is money that goes to safety and local roads that are out in the MS D. I think the budget this year proposed for $5 million. 
 
TROY KENT: 
A mile? 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
Exactly. That money tends to go to, more towards safety and maintenance in your rural roads. 
 
TROY KENT: 
Thank you. That is the only question I have. If you will leave my name up because I have comments as well. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Are there any other questions? Jake Johansson? 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Sir do we want to get a motion before we start comments? Or do you want to comment before the motion? 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
I think… If you want to make comments you can. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
I will stick with comments. I like this idea, I think it is important that we pay for our infrastructure by whatever means possible. If we cannot get it from tax or grants or F.jobs on state roads then we have to take care of it. 
 
What I am concerned about is if I recall we have to have our tenant's village… By the end of July. The idea is great. But timing, not so smart. This has been a problem for the past nine months and here we are two weeks before we are due to send in our tentative trim right and we want to adjusted. 
 
We are talking about adjusting it just a tad. To solve our problem we need a lot of money. And we need a staff that can actually execute those funds within a year. I am not opposed to raising the rate a little bit to get a million or two or five. But I do not think that this is what this counsel wants. 
 
I do not think, here is a dime go get a candy bar. Which you cannot get a candy bar for a dime. Why don't we instead of waiting until the 10th hour and 11th hour try to adjust it to make us all feel good, why do not we put the nose to the ground stone and come up with a plan. If we need a bond roads, I hope not, but come up with a plan to pay for some robust, road improvements and take care of it instead of nickel and dime in the allotment here and there to make us feel good. That is my only thought. 
 
Here we are two weeks prior and now we are (indiscernible) around with this thing they have been talking about for four months now. That is all I have. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you. Councilman Johansson I would say, the final comments, I hope that you bring that up again and asked for a vote if that works out I think that would be very appropriate. For me right now, I am hoping to hear a motion to approve this. I am hoping to get this locked in right now today. Because then we know that millage rate cannot go up. We can reduce it some but I am certainly not opposed to taking better care of roads. That is all dependent on money. I would be very much for the workshop, even the discussion about raising the millage rate. But only if there is an offsetting reduction on spending somewhere else because roads are a core responsibility of government. But our Volusia County residents really need tax relief. There also hoping for insurance rates reductions as well, but I don't think we can solve that here. 
 
Unless there is an offsetting reduction and spending somewhere else, I would prefer to stick with the millage rate budget as proposed. Councilman Santiago? 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Thank you Mr Chairman. I want to first complement staff, because a like the way you phrased it. What you are proposing in front of us is the rollback plus SunRail. I think it is important to highlight, because SunRail, I don't think anybody here voted on SunRail, whoever it is an obligation that the county has but was voted on eight, 10 years ago. We unfortunately have to fulfill that commitment, which we signed on the dotted line. 
 
I think it shows also our staff has looked for areas to trim. As I look at this chart here, for those in the public that are engaged in this, you can see the general funds is down 5.7. Library fund down 7.6. And you have a few others down in the bottom there. You have one increase of 10%. But not County operations. 
 
But to go to Danny's point, in Jake's point, I think the roads is an important thing. I don't know how we solve it. I am interested to hear more, because the cost of roads is not going to get any cheaper. We have a mile for $5 million. 
 
I know I met with staff, Ben and them gave me a great presentation what the plan is. I think we've all seen that. But I agree we have to get more serious about our road infrastructure. That is a very very valid point that we are going to have to make some tough decisions on. Interesting to see ideas, but more so to Kopelman staff on the work that they did here. And most efficient presentation compared to Lester. Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Vice Chair Troy Kent. 
 
TROY KENT: 
Thank you Chairman, just briefly. To councilmember Johansson's comments, I could still subscribe to basically everything he said. I'm with you on those comments today. 100%. 
 
In the same breath after we set the trim notice. We can't only increase it, we can decrease it. Part of the public hearing is listening to our residents, so there could be a possibility to decrease it right until the 12th hour. That being said, I won't be making any motions at this time to bring this idea up, after ask that question of the County Manager. 
 
But Mr Johansson, I will use my time over the next year to meet with Ryan, and Aaron, to talk about... And with George to talk about... 
 
I think the way we help solve this Councilman Santiago, as we as an elected body dedicate a certain millage amount, a percentage for roads. So that there was no guessing anymore. We know this percentage is going to go to Rhodes every single year, because this is one of our basic responsibilities. That many of us have talked about. 
 
We must provide infrastructure for our residents. It's a necessity. We must have a plan in place. Part of that plan is how are we going to fund this? Because falling behind and falling behind year after year is a wildly inappropriate plan. 
 
I also whenever I meet with you gentlemen, I want to talk about a renewal enter placement millage, because we need to have money set aside so there is no guessing whenever we need a new roof on any of our hundreds of facilities, where condition HVAC, whatever. I helped lead the charge with that in Ormond Beach, I did something I talked about with my constituents about bringing to the county. 
 
That discussion I look forward to over the next nine months, Councilman Johansson. And I hope that collectively together we can put our heads together and come up with a real plan that helps to set a plan in motion to help solve this problem. It won't be done in a year, or five years, but if we have a plan set in motion we will see those positive results as the years goes by. Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Robins. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Thank you Chair, and one of the main reasons, the call for this is we have to start somewhere. Sometimes the first step is the hardest step. And we procrastinate. I have seen it since 2020, I have seen it since before that. But the roads keep falling behind. OK? This has never been done. But it has to be done. 
 
Here we are about to set millage, what better chance, and we are not talking about a huge thing. And starting just with a little seed money to get the ball rolling, and make a commitment, and not do the political struggle every time there's an election. OK? 
 
So... And on top of that we've addressed a lot of things on this council. With stormwater and housing. We had a chance, I know Don and I voted for, we are trying to get an extra 50 million to go towards roads and infrastructure, couldn't do it that way. Now is our chance to get some seed money going. I would be willing to make that motion if we had a couple... 
 
George, excuse me, County Manager, is there a time limit on when we have to spend this money? Does it have to be spent in a year if we set a millage set up? 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
No that's just – part of your general fund. And if you were to get it, of course we would account for it, political separately. If that was the desire. We could show it. 
 
When we do the road program, there's always a kind of complicated spreadsheet that will show the various funding sources, because most roads end up with multiple funding sources, and that would be another one. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
And guys, by any means don't get the idea I'm trying to say this is a silver bullet or fix all, we all know it is -- it isn't. 
 
We hear this coin phrased of road not paying for itself. Anna believes that's the case, because we've made other things a greater priorities and roads, but roads are high-priority. We are funding our first responders at record levels to this county. Probably one of the best in the State of Florida that's ever been seen. Public safety is number one. But we cannot neglect everything else, we have to find other ways. Want to stick our toe in the pool here. 
 
Yes, it's 11th hour, but you know what? We have been talking about this for years, and years, and years. I think it's time to you know what or get off the pot, even if it's just a little bit, thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Vice-Chair Troy Kent. 
 
TROY KENT: 
Thank you chairman, just very briefly Council. You've heard me say before these are rented seats. We don't own the seats, we are here for a short time our constituents put us in these positions to make decisions for them, and on their behalf. 
 
With what my family had going on, I am extremely grateful with what we had personally going on recently in our family, that I don't have an election right now anymore. It's an honor, and I am extremely appreciative to the district for constituents for allowing me to serve them for an additional four years. 
 
That being said, it would be a time where I could play with political theater. Go look at my record, I don't play games. This is not about playing games, this is not about political curry or anything like that. 
 
We have all talked about it, but if we can save our constituents money, then we've all said that we want to do that. 
 
I am all for in the future having a healthy conversation with each of you gentlemen about dedicating a certain millage amount that will put real dollars in an account to tackle this problem, but I am more than OK with what staff is presented. We are doing the same, or even more, with less. 
 
So at this point I will make a motion to approve item number 18, the tentative millage rate for Trent notices. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
And the September 3. 
 
TROY KENT: 
and I thinks of them with her, sit on the 17th have both have to be 6 PM, is that correct? 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Second. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
We have motion to approve TRIM Rates budget overview by Vice-Chair Kent, seconded by Jake Johansson. In the next two budget meetings will be September 3 and September 17 at 6 PM if this passes. 
 
Were you done Mr Kent? Alright. Can someone Santiago. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Thank you Mr Chair. To our staff team. On the general fund, the 3.3958 which is a current millage correct? Proposed 3.2007. 
 
If we stood with the 3.3958, how much revenue would that bring in? I stumped you. OK, I don't need the exact number. Give me a good estimate. Ballpark, I don't need the exact number. 10 to 12 million? 
 
All just lead with this Mr Chair and we will see where the vote goes, I think Danny's point is a very valid one. It wish we had talked about it earlier, we could've gotten more of our colleagues on board to have more discussion about it. I agree with you, maybe seriously taking, having a dedicated amount every year. Just to that infrastructure. Because that is the other thing we hear often from our constituency. Is Rhodes and the infrastructure needs. 
 
That's all I got Mr Chair. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Accounts him Johansson. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Thank you Chairman, I will say Brett has mentioned to us before that the two males for Vrecko gets something between 10 and 12.5 a year, which this is about two mill difference. I was going to mention that. 
 
I'm not saying 10 million won't get you far. But we need to have a serious discussion about a hundred million. We need a big discussion. 
 
I know this is a good idea, again I just think it needs... I don't like making a decision like this without doing a little more research. I am looking at George going is that a mile, is that 2 miles? How much is it? It's a little late in the game for that. If this doesn't get folded up, etiquettes voted down, and we want to have a special meeting later in the month. Knocking this out right away, I can do that as well. We can meet one more time in July. But I don't know about the legal ramifications of that. I am just not for it right now, thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Dempsey.  
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
I know we talked about this briefing the other day. I guess this is directed more to George because he kinda gave me an answer. You have been in road and bridge long before your days… The manager. 
 
Is there been a feasibility study done about the prospect of having in-house road construction as opposed to bed and get out all the time? And is that something we should maybe look into? 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
Let me just say, I was here when the effort was made to take away most of our ability to do that. We fought off to a certain extent, you had certain elements of the roadbuilding community that did not like the government being in that business. 
 
In fact there is a limitation to what we are allowed to do today. Public works construction, and houses limited to a certain size project. Is it 500,000 or 300,000? Somewhere in the neighbourhood. Basically, the legislature limited our ability to do that. 
 
That being said, we do do get creative, we have in-house crews that have the ability. Especially in dirt road reduction. We can prepare the road, we can do those projects because they tend to be smaller. But we could also do larger ones where we prepare the roads and just the paving companies come in and to do the pavement. 
 
We are always looking at ways that we can save money. But as far as going all the way we would be capped at a certain amount. That amount is in the neighbourhood of three to $500,000. Which if you can imagine, that does not by a lot when we are talking about 5 million a mile. I can do 1/10 of a mile. 
 
SPEAKER: 
My question is, is there anything we can do as a council to try to either lobby to modify that are to expand our ability to do bigger and house projects than just 1/2 million dollar projects? 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
Certainly that is something we will put on the list to bring up for a legislative agenda. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Do you think it would be economically feasible? 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
In certain cases. I think where we are at and what we looked at, it does make economic sense. It sounds smaller portions around particular projects. You are not going to be able to compete with larger, full-scale road expansions. Because they have all the equipment. It is asphalt intensive and we will not be making our asphalt. They are making it. 
 
At the end of the day they make it and they lay it. It is one of the few things out there where you manufacture something and you install it. 
 
That is a very efficient form of delivery. 
 
Again, what I would like to do maybe it is we can talk about some of these things in a further workshop that we have coming up on the road program. Again, it is tight right now. Really your chances, your options today would be to put that extra .0855 onto it which would give you a 3.2862 and the trim notice. Then you can cut it out later if you decided to. 
 
But again, I agree I do not like it being hurried. But there is a lot we can talk about going forward. Also in addition and it is kind of, I'd rather talk about it more in the workshop setting, but we have debt that is coming off. Councils back right around the early 2000 did put up a $65 million bond program and we leveraged that money and turned it into about $130 million in road projects. That is where maybe also the dedicated mill, you can take an bond it and leverage it and turn it into more money. 
 
Because it does not seem like much, but it could be for a debt payment per se. There are rules about that and how we would do that and covenant your budget and things like that. There is some limitations but again, we can come up with better financing plans if we get the chance to talk about it I think at workshop. And what would be the Council's desire. Ways to fund it that you guys control. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Robin? 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
This is my last plea. Things will come up like the courthouse, 30 million? Who is going to pay for that? We have other things that are falling by the wayside. 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
300 million. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
300 million. It is Murphy's Law. And we all know and my statement was not directed at any one particular I have just been in politics long enough to know now they are in critical election season. Things get goofy. As goofy as it gets. 
 
If not now when I would like to start tripping at this. May be if we can add that .20.. Is it 0855? Is that we set? 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
0.855. That would give you 5 million. That is the significance of that number. If you were to add it on what I have here, we .2007 that would be 3.2862. That would give you the extra $5 million. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
I think my personal opinion is that, that would be a good start. And get the ball rolling and let that marinate a little bit. They can still come off but I think it is a step in the right direction and it will commit us to actually locking something down. I have high hopes. We have a lot of needs here. I do not know what exactly we need. Is it 100 million? Hundred and 50 million? Probably more. We have to start somewhere. That is my plea. 
 
If I do not vote for this millage rate today it is because I think we can add this in and it would be a prudent time to do so. Thank you guys. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
You were done George? 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
Yes. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
We have one member of the public who wants to speak. I am going to ask that, we have a motion on the table to approve the trim rate and the budget as given. The motionless by vice chair Kent and seconded by Jay Johansson. I want us to approve this budget. This is a really important conversation but this is not the time to do it at the 11th hour. 
 
It is not- it does feel like political theatre. This is really important. It is too important to try to cram in at the last minute. I personally am not going to vote to increase taxes on people's property. As important as roads are, I like Jake's idea of having a workshop and what systematically look at this, plan and think about it and see what we need to do. 
 
But I am hoping we vote for the proposal as it has been made. With that said, David San Diego and then I will call John Nicholson. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Thank you Mr. chair. One is our last date for making any changes on this? 
 
SPEAKER: 
We have to submit it to DOR so the property appraisal has it for the trim calendar. 
 
There is technically, you can raise the rates after you set it but there is a whole process you have to go through. You have to mail all new trim notices- 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I mean lowering it. 
 
SPEAKER: 
You will have September 3 and September 17. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
September 17? That will give us two months. There is a part of me that agrees with almost everybody here but I like Danny's proposal because we know that the cost is not going to go away. If we have an opportunity- to set aside I know it is a small amount, of $5 million? At that .8? 
 
I do not have that answer. 
 
You can ask that question I guess. I also do not see it as 1/11 hour thing. I see it as part of our decision-making. That is what we are all up here for, to discuss these types of things. I do not have a problem with having that discussion. We probably know we need $100 million I'm going to guess. Maybe more? 
 
But if we can start setting aside some money now and we have two more months to have some dialogue with the County manager or our team. Can we spend the 5 million? Should we set aside the 5 million for road infrastructure projects? And we have seed money to come up with a plan for the remaining, I'll say 95 million. Even though I know that is not a hard number. 
 
I do not think it has a significant impact on our residence knowing that infrastructure is usually the topic that they discuss. 
 
Guys, I could live with that. Especially for two months. If in two months we think there is still no value in setting aside that 5 million we remove it in September and we can go down. I do not think there is any harm in putting that number right now. Let's give two months to think about it. See if there are any options. 
 
If we do not do it today than we are done, we cannot do it in two months. I just see it as us making a tough decision in tough times. That is what we are here for. I do not see it as the 11th hour. I see it as dialogue and addressing needs. 
 
I will do this. Mr. chair if I may, I moved to amend the motion to change the proposed millage by adding the point, what was it George? 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
(indiscernible) .0855. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Specifically dedicating the option to road infrastructure projects. 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
To the general fund. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Yes sir. Thank you Mr. chair. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
We have a motion on the table to amend the motion that is on the floor. Is there a second for that amendment? 
 
The amendment was made by David Santiago and the second was made by Matt Rinehart to amend the millage rate by adding .0855 dedicated to the general fund for road and infrastructure. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
If I may add one thing if I cut? Not to the motion. If we have any debate on it Mr. chair, if we could get somebody from staff to tell us what the inflation is currently an infrastructure type projects so we at least have that to help us make our decision whether we should decide to set money aside now? 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Is anybody able to do that? On-the-fly? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Yes sir. Since June of last year (indiscernible) the inflationary rate on transportation services is .4 since last year. It is an increase of 9.4. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Steep. 
 
There are three names on the board. This discussion on the amendment. Don Dempsey, J Johansson? Jake? 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
I am not… I am not opposed to (indiscernible) trim rate that we can lower. What I am opposed to, is again, the fact that we are governing in the 11th hour. We have to get ahead of the way we are thinking. We cannot wake up on game day and say, "we ought to try and run a play that we have not run before." 
 
This is something we should have thought about long-ago. I will put the additional .5 or whatever back in and see if we can come up with a plan. Can Ben Bartlett go home and toil and try to find $5 million worth of unfunded road projects? He can probably do that right now. 
 
The fact that that money could be spent, you are damn right. He has a whole list of funding requirements… And I am sure it is (indiscernible) Back from the half cent sales list and I am sure it has grown. But, what I do not want to do is I do not want to throw money at a problem just to feel good. 
 
So, and that is all this is. This is throwing a penny or a dime and that -- at a $10,000 problem and say, "Oh, we got something started." I will vote for anything that we can lower later. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Don? 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
I am a hard raising the rate, just like Denny mentioned. But… Danny and I were the only ones who voted against -- we wanted the extra money for infrastructure. We were told there was another pile of $48 million in another part. Collectively, we have $98 million that we can use for infrastructure for roads, which is my key point. 
 
But, Danny and I got voted down. So, we just pooh-poohed $50 million a few months ago and now we talk about raising TRIM to another $5 million? I mean, come on! We should have done it while the getting was good, we should have done it back then, but we didn't. 
 
So, I am against this. You know, you talk about making the hard vote, it is a hard vote for making the tax increase. You know it is really hard is cuts. Instead of raising taxes more, let's cut raising programs and cut government waste. If we want to do something good, let's start talking about cutting waste and leave off with this minuscule amount. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Santiago. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
A couple of things I want to point out: (Laughs) I have been in this process long enough that when I hear a colleague say, "I am going to cut wasteful spending and cut this." 99.9% of the time, do you know what I do not hear is details. Tell me what? Because those are great soundbites, and I am not trying to paint anything political, but the top part is what are you going to cut? 
 
For example, I love you and I want to tell you that first. But today, we had the library board — even though it is a small amount of expense – you voted not to cut it. It is a small amount, but it will take tough decisions like that that may not be popular among certain segments to make those tough decisions. 
 
So, I see different legal stuff I see staff did come in here and cut -5.7. Staff did. We are establishing a fundamental that we did.… I made most something with staff cutting other items. 
 
When Danny was able to convince us of is that it is a start. I do not want to build up half $1 million of growth. Make 1/2 a mile of road, I think we need to start an estate for the big decisions and had we leverage that $5 million? We are in that (indiscernible) to not even just raise, let me say that: it will still be below the what the normal number would be. So, it is still a reduction in taxes by adding that doesn't 08, whatever the numbers are. 
 
It is still reduction, but at the same time we are telling our constituency that yes, we came up with it today. But, it doesn't matter to me whether something comes before that is tough, we are here to make decisions. 
 
So, it is not 1/2 a mile for me, or a mile. It is beginning to set aside money to address the larger problem. And, if we have an opportunity to do that, and still cut the taxes — which is what it will be — why not start? We have to start somewhere. 
 
And, if somebody wants to cut, I'm going to use your line, Danny, sling that pistol. Tell us where to cut. Let us have that dialogue. Anyway, that is where I am at, Mr Chair. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you Mr Kent. 
 
TROY KENT: 
If what was opposed by this amendment is going to make a big difference, or a little different, heck, I am going to say then that dollar. The healthy discussion we need to have is over a workshop and other public hearings where we can talk to our residents and talk to each other at a public meeting, where we can talk about, as Mr Johansson said, hundred million dollars. 
 
I am going to ante it up to $200 billion.… How many roads do we have, hundred thousand miles. There you go. And we are looking to change this TRIM notice, possibly changing for a mile, I am a hard know on this today. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
How do you eat an elephant? 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
… It is almost impossible to what my taxes, and we are almost there! I am not going to risk losing it, I think it is that important. 
 
But, what I am for is the workshop that Jacob suggested where we can look at this in a systematic way and come up with a plan. Look at all of our priorities. What are the core responsibilities of government? Where should we be spending money and where should we cut it out? That is what we need to do in a workshop and not at this meeting today. 
 
For me, this is not taking one bite out of an elephant, but Staff, and I do not see Brad here and I know Donna is not here, but we did not pass transform 386, and I believe there was $90 million in there for instructor?  
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
That was infrastructure that had to do with flooding. There was discussion of possibly raising a road, and we may look at that. One of the (unknown term) projects we could not get done in the time or manner – we can see about using the money or monies that are in the hazard mitigation. 
 
Like I said, that all has to do with most cases of flooding or flood mitigation, so we may — we are, by the way, I throw in the mix bridges. We just recently are looking at what some of the blood does to our bridges, because there is scoured and other things like that. Maybe we could tie in something there. 
 
But, the vast majority has to go -- the majority has to go to city projects. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Right, the main was going to go toward… Drainage problem. Counsel one Danny Robins 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Everybody has brought this up, but I will say this quickly and then I am done. The list could be: the part of the South (indiscernible). Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK, Don Nicholson. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Don Nicholson, Daytona Beach side. Couple of things. What (Name), for years, has built into their village for roads. I have never complained. I have never heard anybody complaining that they are paying it. If they needed, they pay. 
 
We go through this with ECHO and Volusia Forever. Nobody complains about it. Daytona Beach, built in. Water and sewer goes out on a regular basis. We know we needed, we do not complain. So, to me it will be a great idea to put it in. 
 
I know it is in the five-$10 million, depending what you do, but that is real money. Things get done that you wouldn't normally have done. So, if there is a way of raising funds, I think you should do it. 
 
Secondly, five years ago, about maintenance, our buildings were not being maintained. We were coming across these large bills because we have not maintained anything. 
 
Do we have a system in the county that every department has a replacement to put aside funding to fix and repair? The (indiscernible) goes out, you have money to afford it. Do you have that in the system? I think it is needed. 
 
Third, I think I was shocked: $12 million in the CRA, $9 million, there are $3 million for police, OK? The Sheriff's office. Well, in my area, we have the ocean center, we have a lagoon, we have a parking garage and no police. 
 
When he first built the garage, you had the Sheriff there. All of a sudden, he vanished and we have all kinds of problems. What you are asking us is that our CRA is to come up with money to pay for a Sheriff that we will never see. 
 
So, can somebody explain to us why that $3 million is going to a Sheriff that we never saw before and now we are going to pay him and that is the end? 
 
Lastly, we had half penny sales tax come up a few years ago. People did not vote because the halfpenny sales tax. The people were against not raising it for 17 years and then putting up the sales tax. They were angry at something other than the sales tax. 
 
They all knew that we needed infrastructure. Daytona Beach, specifically, needed LPGA, and I thought that for years and my city didn't do anything. Not until did I bring it to Heather who read it before you all did he get solved. Now it is 20 years too early. We had thought about doing it in 2040. 
 
For the process, there are things that have to be done here? Think again about the halfpenny sales tax. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
George Recktenwald? 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
Just to address the first-aid that we have that kind of building maintenance system set up in all of the areas who contribute. That is part of what you talk about interfund transfers and the operating versus the non-operating budget, a lot of that is what we are talking about (indiscernible) money within the organization. That is set aside. So that part is taken care of. Oh, in fact, we just pressure washed the garage and there was an earlier discussion at the Ocean Center, and it will be painted in October. We are out for now for a bit on that. 
 
I have to adjust the sheriff, part of the CRA that was talking about that. 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
That was probably my fault and I can explain it better. Honest pie chart, we are explaining… The CRA is passed through. Every taxing district that operates on the CRA has to put into that. Except the ones who are only paid by the County general fund. So every taxing district within the CRA has to pay into it. 
 
Instead of having the law enforcement funds millage pay into the CRA, we are transferring sales tax money of $3 million to pay that CRA in that way. In that way, everything that is levied in the law enforcement zone is levied by law enforcement services. We can say that exposure only, and he is not using CRA. He is using CRA.. It is not a Sheriff's Office,… 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Let's deal with the amendment which is to add .0855 two the millage rate and then we will deal with the motion . Krista, would you call the roll for the vote on the amendment only? 
 
(Roll Call) 
 
DANNY SANTIAGO: 
the millage rate has increased, so now we will work with the main motion. The general rate will now be 3.2862. 3.2862. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Is anybody going to amend the motion? 
 
SPEAKER: 
It has already been amended. 
 
SPEAKER: 
OK. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Mr Johansson… 
 
SPEAKER: 
You put the second, Troy count was the second. There has already been a motion and now it has been counted. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Then I have no comments. 
 
SPEAKER: 
This vote, Chairman, just the convocation the numbers have been adjusted because of that last vote. Is that correct? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Yes, now it is 3.2862. As opposed to 3.0047. 
 
SPEAKER: 
If this gets voted down, how does it affect you? 
 
SPEAKER: 
(indiscernible) then we start all over again. It will just be a new motion. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Does anybody understand where we are, and what is a coven? Chris has called the world for the trim of eight and a budget overview with the meeting. Setting the to meeting September 3 and 17th at 6 PM, at the newly revised millage rate of (indiscernible). 
 
SPEAKER: 
Can I ask a question about that, we have a County Council meeting in the evening. 
 
SPEAKER: 
That is during the meeting. 
 
(Roll Call) 
 
SPEAKER: 
It passes with a vote of the 4 to 3. That only gives us one item left. 
 
SPEAKER: 
We can just sit for 10 minutes and wait it out. 
 
SPEAKER: 
That is 119. Let's break until… How long do you need? 2 o'clock? Not that long? OK.  
 
(Break)   
 
(Music plays) 
 
SPEAKER: 
Welcome to the Volusia County Council meeting. The meeting will begin in 10 minutes. 
 
(Music plays) 
 
SPEAKER: 
Welcome to the Volusia County Council meeting. The meeting will begin in five minutes. 
 
(Music plays) 
 
SPEAKER: 
Welcome to the Volusia County Council meeting. The meeting will begin in two minutes. 
 
(Music plays)  
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK, five minute call to start. Alright, it is 2 o'clock we will resume the July 16 Volusia County Council meeting and we have two more items. Item 15 is ordinance 24 – 18 seeking counsel direction concerning the elimination of the animal control board. You're going to take us into that? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Yes sir, Mr Chair. Russ Brown, County attorney. As mentioned, this is another one of the advisory board.… 
 
About eight years ago counsel remove the animal control board to do dangerous dog determinations.… So your animal control advisory board gives policy advice to the Council if there are any animal control regulations. The option for the Council is to keep it in its current form or to dissolve it. 
 
It was made by ordinance, and that was revised. With me is staff I can answer any questions that you have about the animal control board. Really, the cost of the time for the entry toolbar are three members of staff and it builds quarterly, four times for the year. With that, I will answer questions or turn it over to Stop. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK, thank you, questions for Russ Brown or staff? 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
So, the elimination of the board will not affect any ordinance from the public view process for dangerous dogs, that still remains? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Correct. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I moved to dissolve the animal control board. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK, Councilman Santiago puts forward and (Name) seconds. Any questions? 
 
SPEAKER: 
… Operation of the animal control and standards and procedures for the care and protection of animals not under restraint and (indiscernible) under facilities. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
Do they fall under the same regulations as sunshine? That is correct, right? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Yes, sir. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
I will wait to hear, thank you.… I was curious when they change it from the board's decision to a magistrate decision on declaring a dog dangerous. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I want to say that was approximately 2008. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
Can you give the reasons for this? 
 
SPEAKER: 
… Dangerous dog hearings. The decision was made to go to a magistrate for hearing of that function and the board would retain making recommendations on changes to the animal board ordinance. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
How many were on the board back then? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Same back then, I believe it was a 5 member board. Yes,. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
So, right now we have one person determining whether a dog is determined dangerous and needs to be put down? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Yes, then it has an appeal process and this goes straight to the board. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
What would be the -- is there any detriment to bring that back and giving more people the power to decide the fate of the family pet? I, if we brought back the board and had three members determine the fate of the family dog, a pet --'s 
 
MICHAEL G DYER: 
Yes, it is really… It is not discretionary decision. Yet again, if memory serves me correctly (Laughs) it was done back then because we were having some hearings scheduled and we did not have a quorum which caused issues. That is all I can recall. 
 
It is a policy decision on whether you want to restore that. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
That's all. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
How many Board Members? 5? Do you have for issues? You always get quorum? 
 
RUSS: 
Staff says no issues. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK we will move to anymore discussion on the item? Don Dempsey. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
Over the years, I have been practicing law for 34 years and they come across numerous dangerous drug issues. Nobody likes a dangerous dog, I get it, but unfortunately there are a lot of dogs that may be not deserving of being put down. They get caught in the net of being provoked by the neighborhood or get loose because of somebody else's negligence. 
 
I have always been and always will be a proponent for multiple triers of fact and on other words, we have several people deciding the fate of the budget of the county. We have a jury system of six – people on a lot of issues. I said before that you are entitled to a jury of 6 people. 
 
I would always feel better having more people decide the fate of the family pet, and if it is possible, resurrect the animal control Board to determine the fate of the dog. I would always be in favor of that. If anything, today, I would like to look into the direction of bringing back the animal control board and giving it the power of determining the fate of a deemed dangerous dogs.  
 
Like, again, I say there is safety in the multitude of counsel. I always feel fear of a rogue officer. I have heard that judging officers over the years and that scares me. At the very least, I would like to bring that back. I do not want to see this board go away because maybe we can get some insight into the system we have deceived maybe there is a problem of dogs being undeserving of this being put down? But, I am a dog guy. You are a dog guy, Troy, I just want to make sure there is enough due process in place to keep these families getting due process. 
 
So, I would like to bring it back like it was in 08 whenever Mike said it was done away with. Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Johansson. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
For staff, this is animal control board. Not dogcontrol board, but I know dogs are usually the ones who pay the price. When is the last time we have a magistrate have a hearing on a topic up-and-down? 
 
MICHAEL G DYER: 
We have two dangerous dog hearing a year on average. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Two. 
 
SPEAKER: 
We currently have 20 in the county and of those none of them are deemed dangerous to be put down, in that we allow them to be put on a website to know exactly whether locations are.… This I began since 10 months ago, there has been one dog. Although there is a process of investigation by the officer. I have to bring the investigation to the magistrate. 
 
The animal had to have exhibited such behavior as to be deemed dangerous. It has to have caused injury to an individual. (Indiscernible) multiple other animals. 
 
MICHAEL G DYER: 
My understanding of the process, and I will have to ask the Director, but the established determination where they put containment measures in place for the animal unless they kill somebody, they are not destroyed. But if there are future violations, they can be destroyed. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Yes, if a are deemed dangerous and they provide injury to another member of our community, they are destroyed at that time.… Otherwise, they would require a muscle and they would have requirements for being on a leash or some kind of confinement in their home. Especially just because we want to prevent any of the circumstances from happening to another individual at that point. 
 
MICHAEL G DYER: 
Is a statutory process, it was not originally here. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you. Councilman Santiago. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Thank you Mr Chair. I think there's enough due process for individuals SPAC owners to go through the process of appeal. I have no concerns with our current process on dangerous paths, dogs, animals. 
 
As he goes back to what we are voting on here today, on this ordinance, is whether or not it is relevant to the animal control board. I made the motion to eliminate it. Smaller government, less expenses, we do not need it. Thank you Mr Chair. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Dempsey. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
Yeah, just a follow-up, I am familiar with how this process works, and you are right that it takes two events (Laughs) but to get back at what Mike said, I need every crime is a state statute and there is a process in place by statute. 
 
I, to say that there is a certain set of procedures you have to go through to Dena don't dangerous, well, if I accuse David of stealing my phone, he has a process going through it, but he probably feels better with a jury trial than a trial with a rogue judge. 
 
And we might not even have a good judge. (?) But what happens if the day comes and we get a bad judge? You cannot fire them Jake. Could I fire certain judges? 
 
(Multiple speakers) 
 
MICHAEL G DYER: 
Not judges but the hearing officer. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
The reality is we will not get the time of day. It is better to have the safety of multitudes at every single case. To sit here and say we will micromanage the hearing officer, that takes up more time. I, why do we not just have Jeff here reading my running the County? Why are the six of us here? 
 
Or, why do we have to resistance in general? That cost the taxpayers a lot of money, why have jurors? We have to bring them in every morning, swear the man, do the (indiscernible). Because it is protective of people's fundamental rights. 
 
I love my dogs. OK? I have seen issues of dogs getting out where somebody walking down the road provokes the dog. I had German shepherds so I have to be really careful. But I have seen it happen. David, I do not know how many you have done in your career, but I have seen a lot of innocent people caught in the net. I do not want to see people flippant about protecting due process rights. 
 
What is the harm of having three people make the decision of whether a dog dies or confines them in a manner that set them up for failure? These constraints that people talk about are extremely onerous. 
 
I like to see people get their fair day in court. I know that is just a dog, but dogs are family to a lot of people. Thomas Jefferson says it clearly:… John Adams said, "We have to spend more time protecting innocence than prosecuting guilt." 
 
I don't see the harm in just leaving it with three people. And let these people make the decision. To say these people are getting a fair trial, in reality it will never happen. And a lot of people are losing family pets that I do not think, I do not see why we cannot just let it go back to the board. I, it was there for a reason. 
 
It didn't -- it did exist at one time for a reason. I just think it doesn't hurt to think back to the way it used to be. Thanks.  
 
TROY KENT: 
Once an animal is deemed dangerous, is the owner required to carry a license? I have seen some mean cats! I'd rather be around some dogs. 
 
SPEAKER: 
There is a homeowners insurance license. (indiscernible) been able to comply with that. 
 
TROY KENT: 
When you find out the amount that we require, could you please let me know. 
 
SPEAKER: 
30 seconds. 
 
TROY KENT: 
If it is not $1 million, we have to change it. I am serious. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
So a couple of things. Number one, there was a comment made earlier we can unappointed reappoint somebody else if they are going off the rails. Is that correct? We can fire them. 
 
Number two, there have been instances in my travels, on animal control boards, or where citizens either know the dark, know the family, know the person and try to make a decision, sometimes contrary to state statute. That either safe…, Or not to put down that dark. Not based on facts but based on personality. 
 
So the local magistrate is just as dangerous, or just as valuable, as three or five members of the board. So I understand they are appointed by us, and we can and appoint them as well. But I do not think really that it is almost out. Apples comparison, other than it is free or five people instead of one special magistrate. 
 
So I do not see much difference there. There can be… There can be a rogue group, or person, on either side of that argument. 
 
TROY KENT: 
I do not have anything else, sorry. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Question, does anybody from the animal control board ever contact you all directly with issues with animals? Is that permissible? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Just to clarify, do you mean just general consent? Yes. So members of our board are able to contact me at any time. Each have my number and email it I am happy to set up an email with them. I would rather they bring those two men directly when they have those concerns, rather than wait. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
This is not a culture question, because I do not know the answer, but I am wondering if a member contacted you about… Because if they didn't, I would get with you afterwards with Mark about seven. In horses on East Avenue. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Unfortunately animal services doesn't actually have horses. It is actually the Sheriff's office. So horses and livestock actually fall under the Ranger unit, not for each account animal services. We only serve domestic animals. So we were forgotten. B: OK, thank you. That is all we needed to know. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I just wanted to kind of respond, I guess, Don, I love you. Even though we are on opposite sides here today. But you know, if you figured me out, I rarely share personal stories or anything personal. Personally, I like to have fun. But I will share this. 
 
Make a difference to a doctor, but I will have a personal story. So, about six months ago my doctor but the neighbours. In the first introduction fondles a bit of two German shepherds professionally trained, he describes them as killer attack stops, that will shred you to that was the description that was given to my daughter and her husband. With two little kids. He put in a cage. With no effect. 
 
The wonders elect them and of the cage, and my family's little dachshund was running about, that dachshund is now buried in my daughter's backyard because of those dogs. One of those dogs, I should say. So it is a stupid owner, and what should have been deemed a new address but is as it gets. 
 
I would rather have somebody who provides a professional standard as a magistrate, whose job is to look at the law and order… That we have in place and apply them professionally. And if they are not doing their job and we can remove them. So I know it has got nothing to do with this, and I do not like to do that. Hopefully this is the last time I ever share a personal story because I am a private person. But let's let the professional people work. 
 
I know you are in the professional field and you and angry at you have seen a lot. I respect that. I usually look for professionals who are in their jobs with them. People who are not and we have to be (indiscernible). So I will repeat, I think this is a form that we do not need. We talk about limited government, smaller government, less costs. It is working fine without it. They are not doing much, I should say. Let us move forward. Thank you. Dempsey 
 
COP: 
Thank you David, because he just made my point. OK. You have a experience, you obviously have whether you want to admit it or not, you have a bias. Against German shepherds, or maybe neighbours who are irresponsible. You have a bias that you will not even mention today because it is something that is in your mind. Troy or Jeff may not have that same experience. But what if your next career move send you to be the new special magistrate for these animal issues? Wouldn't it be kind of scary, knowing that you are going to decide the fate of my dog? 
 
Maybe my dog was provoked by the neighbours stop, or maybe the kids came over and appropriate with a stick. I do not know. That is why there is safety in multitudes. Because even though you may have this horrific life experience or the family member does, the other two board members may not. That is why we have multiple people. Different perspectives. And just to ask Sabrina, if we are talking about the appeal system and stuff, how many… I know you do (indiscernible) work, how many appeals to they actually give opinions on when you have a 50 CA? 
 
SPEAKER: 
As few as they possibly can. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Right. They do what is called PCA, (indiscernible). Everybody thinks that if they are, it will just be appealed and they will have the day". But if you go to appeal, you know how many of those rubrics that the Court actually says we disagree with the judge and we are going to tell you why? Did they actually give you an opinion as to why they agree or disagree with the local? 
 
SPEAKER: 
I really do not know. 
 
SPEAKER: 
You can give me an educated guess. Would I be out of line and saying half? Less than half. 
 
(Multiple speakers) 
 
SPEAKER: 
Roughly there is some version, half or less. Give a reason why the agreement". Or just give a written opinion in general. I am not saying agree to disagree, just give an opinion in general. 
 
So when people sit here and say, and I would say having the criminal Court for over 30 years, that it is even less than that. They do what is called PCA. We agree, but we are not going to tell you why. Because they deal with such a program. So to sit here and think you are going to get some kind of justice if you appeal I am going to explain why it doesn't work that way in real life. That is why I am such a proponent of having a multitude of people at the lower courts is a lot of times the lower courts decision satisfaction. That is why I like a lot of people being there. Not just one person. That is why I really would like to see this fullback, because again, we are not talking about a library or anything. We are talking about family pets you are being accused of something that they may or may not justifiably deserve. And I do not see the harm in having more people making that decision as to what the family has to go through. So I am going to stick to where I am. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I want to make sure that I understand your argument, which is really good. And you got me. But it is almost like a separate issue than what we are dealing with here. Which is just getting rid of the board. So I do argument to keep the board so that we can bring this part back? OK. I want everybody to understand that. How would that process work? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Let me correct something. I told you before that it was a five person board. It is a nine person board, there are four vacancies. So that was a mistake. I want to just reflect that correction. 
 
To add the dangerous dog that you have a mental audience. That is what you would like to do? OK. If it survives. OK. I just wanted you to have the opportunity to clarify that. 
 
Sabrina, did you need to say something? 
 
SPEAKER: 
The ordinance actually only requires proof of likability assurance for the premises where the dog will be held, only current dog bites and attacks. That is why many people say they have insurance and they are good to go. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Would reluctant to provide a certificate of insurance, when they register the dark they are required to provide us a certificate of insurance. 
 
SPEAKER: 
It does not have an amount. 
 
SPEAKER: 
If my memory is right, because we did a dangerous dog ordinance 20 years for, and if you wanted to keep a dog that was dangerous because it attacked somebody or it killed another family packed, then you can keep your talk. But you were going to carry $1 million on that up. And that is something that I think this counsel should talk about. At some point. I think it is a healthy conversation and thank you for getting back to me with that answer. 
 
Just like you were mentioning, Ms. Santiago, Don brings up a valid point. The dachshund could have, but he is not scratching me where I itch unintended because I have two daschunds. My heart immediately goes out when I hear around that dog being killed by one next awful and I was immediately turned off by the homeowner when I said that is how they interject themselves. "By the way, this is you you are going to meet next door." 
 
I am sorry that that happened, but I wish that in the area that once a dock is deemed dangerous like that, if a person to continue that, they are going to make sure that they are insured so that it is bad enough that it is a dock, but what if it is your grandchild? I am not trying to put that out there in the universe. Just being maulded. Even being mauled. That is a life-changing event that physically they are going to have damage, but mentally it is a basic thing. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I think separately if Mr Kent wants to bring that up he can (indiscernible) and report back to you with an agenda item to allow us to enact additional restrictions on registration of dangerous dogs if you wish to specify an insurance appointment or other requirement. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Thank you. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
One of the reasons that I want this added or what of the discussion, is based on the minutes and as mentioned before, there are five people in a nine person board. So why haven't the other four positions be filled? Probably because we cannot find Probably because we can't find anybody interested. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Is, I would say it is difficult to get applicants across all boards. Being on the animal control advisory board you do have to have specific qualifications that may be filled and so that makes it a little bit harder as well. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Do you know when the last minutes were? 
 
SPEAKER: 
I do not. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
The last minutes were in 2023. That are posted, anyhow. 
 
I guess my thing is that not much has been done and if we're not doing much — and we're talking about homeless living in the forest and we are talking to (Name) last week posted (?) they are not really doing much or at least we're not really posting much, so it must not be so important, so why are we wasting everybody's time? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Meeting was entrenched 24, they just haven't uploaded the minutes. The next meeting is tomorrow. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Got it. Do we have quorum? 
 
SPEAKER: 
(Laughs), I do not know. That will be tomorrow. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Reinhart? 
 
MATT REINHART: 
… Five vacancies? And there has never been a quorum issue? 
 
… 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
… Don says he wants to expand duties, but there is no case for it. So no minutes or comments have been entered into this. With that, Mr Chair, I called question. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
(Name), would you call the role on disbanding the animal control board? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Think the motion would be to approve and adopt ordinance 2024 – 18 which would in fact dissolve the Animal Control Advisory Board. That motion is put forward by Mr Santiago and seconded by Mr (Name). 
 
(Vote) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
The board remains and you will have a crack later. 2 to 5. There are still seven of us. 
 
(Laughter) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Russ Brown, are you here to discuss the … 
 
SPEAKER: 
Thank you, Mr Chair and counsel. As directed at the June meeting we had been told by staff of having quorum issues. Recommending that staff, as your current sizes 9, would be to reduce that to 5. This amend your quorum from 5 to 3. If you reduce the numbers. 
 
We initially brought this forward and that we had 5 current members of the board but we have currently 6, I am told. If the Council wanted to, instead of making this effective immediately, you could put your motion forward effective April 1, 2025, so that is when the current appointments you have every two or three years expire. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Wow. 
 
RUSS BROWN: 
That is all I have. Mr Irvin is here now. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Mr Reinhart? 
 
MATT REINHART: 
… Approved the ordinance as written, effective April 1, 2025. Yes. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Second, Johansson. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
We have a motion of 4 to reduce it effective April 1, 2025. Any questions for staff? Any comments? 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
My idea is that the Council will take this into effect April 1.… Your motion was to have it effective April 1 is where you are headed, initially. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
April 1, 2025. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Yes. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Is there an issue? 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
What is attached to the amendment is effective immediately. 
 
SPEAKER: 
… 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
To change it on the floor is no problem. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Jake Johansson. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Can we keep it 6 and let it go by attrition but stop it now? And say that -- 
 
SPEAKER: 
You adopted now you are going down to 5. Normally it is an odd number so we don't have voting in the quorum issues. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Is the were doing. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
My motion was to say just make it effective April 1. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
And Jake Johansson, you are good with that? Making the second? OK, I do not see any other points of discussion. All in favor of the ordinance to reduce from 9 to 5 members, taking effect April 1, 2025 say Aye. 
 
One opposed. The motion carries 6:1. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Mr Santiago was the one who was opposed, correct? 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I believe 9 is better than 5. (Laughs) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK. That brings us to a final public comment period. We have 2 people who would like to speak: the first one up is John Nicholson of Daytona Beach, Florida. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I said I will hold off and speak to you all next month. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Did you will hear that?! OK, thank you. 
 
Then, Amy Munizi, it is all in you. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Good afternoon, again. Under the public participation — let me put my glasses back on – information here, it says speakers shall identify themselves by name and state their address. If the speaker represents a group or organization, the group or organization should be identified. 
 
I am very careful on a regular basis and in the last 13 years to come before the council. Speaking for myself, I say my name and that I am not representing a group. But if I do represent a group I say that. As I think this morning. 
 
On my way this morning, and thank you to the tech department we get to hear you in the morning we get to listen to you. I was listening this morning with participation and I was referring to several people with you I do not or do agree with as an idiot. 
 
What they had done is they took an email that I had sent on my personal email address to Candy Councilman Reinhart. I am assuming they got that through a public records request, but I do not know. You can email I sent as a personal ritual with my personal email address stating my opinion on something, not relating to DeLeon Springs. 
 
They truncated it, cut out a lot and used it on social media to slander me. This morning they called me an idiot based on this information. 
 
Then, they tried to say that as president of DeLeon Springs (indiscernible) Association. I did not. Mr Reinhart can attest to the fact that it was sent by me on my personal email address. 
 
So, I think it is important that I have an opportunity to come up here and make it clear. I take my role with the DeLeon Springs community Association very seriously. We do very important things with that community and all of it comes out of our pockets. It takes us a lot of time and money to do good things with that community. 
 
But that does not preclude me as a member of this county citizen as an American to give my opinion. It may or may not agree with everybody I know.… Maybe it was public records search or maybe it was a stolen email. 
 
But I am very careful with that and I do not confuse my roles as a human citizen in my role on the Association. I want to make that very clear. Thank you very much. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you. That brings us to closing comments of the County Manager. 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
Yes Mr Chair. I want to provide a brief update on the Belvedere situation. 
 
I had a chance to meet with a few of you on this. We have been asked if we have been in contact — I think someone mentioned this morning — we have reached out to Belvedere, or I have, on a couple of occasions. I have yet to receive a call back. 
 
That being said, a few other things have occurred since we last given update. It was mentioned – again I think this morning – that Belvedere, around the time that they sent in the conceptual plan to as which I think was around February, around the time they sent plans into the, I think it was DEP. 
 
We've taken some time, it has been quiet. We looked at things like that and discovered what they turned into the DEP was different from what they turned into us. We have asked for clarification and the DEP pointed that out. We sent the 27 pages and send them to Belvidere as an initial request for additional information, we also sent that out to FDP. They have those questions and concerns that we sent. 
 
I want you to understand that we have updated this. Since then, we have heard nothing from that time. 
 
Also there was mention of an FAA report today. You know, very routine. If people are going to build something near an airport, they check with FAA. Again, that is more of a math checking exercise. They check to see the height that is allowed around the airport, and that information that we got was that the tanks that they were proposing would be allowed and would not be of sufficient height though we require the weights. I think that was a today. (?) 
 
That is not something to appeal or anything, that is something that is a math problem that was given to FAA. But, again, continue to monitor that as well as the (indiscernible) Beach municipal Airport monitoring. 
 
I will go ahead and post what we have done on her website. Just wanted to talk to you guys first about it. It will be posted if not by the end of today, then by tomorrow on the website. 
 
Lastly, we do have a meeting coming up July 30 with (Name) Beach, to see where we are at and if anything has been updated. We have not heard from neighboring counties. I have asked Staff to reach out, see if they have heard anything. But, as of yesterday, nobody has heard anything from our neighboring county, and we were looking in Flagler or Brevard. 
 
That's my report. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
You did not care to say anything about your legal department? 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
Mike will speak to the legal. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Michael Dyer.  
 
MICHAEL DYER: 
briefly, since our last meeting, I understand that one of our attorneys who are humorous about five years has accepted a new position at Daytona State College as one of their attorneys. Really sad to see her go, it seems a very exciting position, she certainly will be missed and I wish her the best. 
 
(unknown name) since our last meeting received the ethics award from the (indiscernible) attorneys. I have asked him to prominently display the award in his office, but I appreciate he may not follow this. I congratulate him on his report. 
 
And lastly, there was some discussion earlier about (indiscernible) and vending machines. So, it is a new I would say a new opportunity to have vending machines that have (unknown term) or to make them available to the public or your employees. 
 
There is a state law that have been enacted that offers some immunity to specified individuals such as your first responders, doctors, nurses and the like. General employees so far are not covered by that statute, but that could be something that we talk about when we perform the legislative public folder, if you want to ask for it. 
 
I am sure that other counties and cities would benefit from that if you did that. You do have some opioid money that is becoming available to you, and in large part to your regional partners. -- So Volusia city is going to have an opioid advisory Board. 
 
So if you are interested in having narcotic vending machines on public property, you do have a funding source that could be a possibility, for the requirements of looking at it in that regard as well. (?) And there would be vendors potentially out there, that would be responsible for having -- current products, not expired. 
 
That is something for you to consider. Could you put them on county property now and have them donated? Sure. I think our recommendation would be that that is something for you to let your staff explore. I know Brad has had conversations to encourage the individual that spoke earlier today to come to the advisory Board. 
 
But having it on county property is important, so I would just ask that my suggestion would be how review that and come back to you with what the options would look like. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Keep in mind, it is available on county property now. Because in this building here we have… We have EMS people on one side of the building, and we have our fire department on the other side and they all carry NarCad(?). If something were to happen here we would call one of our EMTs, so on top of that, I believe the sheriff department would (indiscernible) have it as well. 
 
So I do not want you to think that… There are a lot of facilities that already have it to hand, for those people. That he mentioned. That have immunity. 
 
MICHAEL DYER: 
That is it for my report. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Michael, are you entertaining questions? 
 
MICHAEL DYER: 
No, I am done. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I would like to see just a demographic on (unknown name) or where the ODEs are happening so, so the target can be as specific as the camera, with our funding and resources. 
 
MICHAEL DYER: 
we have not received any direction, if you would like this information we are happy to do that. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I could put that in a motion, to bring back additional information. And if these products would be most usable almost needed, but also I would like for us to also reach out to the madness the polities and get them on board, and partners, so we can be very target specific with that. 
 
SPEAKER: 
So that was a motion by Danny Robins, seconded by Matt Reinhardt. Do we want to bring this up in a second meeting – the city to participate as well? 
 
MATT REINHART: 
We are in unincorporated Volusia, I do not want to get hung in district, I can only assume that cities with awful benefit from this. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Most of the cities are currently represented on the advisory committee. So you have a body to advise it, and you have recommendations for ultimately get to you for funding. And I think you might have had some of the discussion. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
I would suggest we do not bring it back until we have had discussion by this committee, which I think is in office. This August. Next month. OK. 
 
(Multiple speakers) 
 
MATT REINHART: 
They can also discuss, you know, as far as locations as well. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Robinson.the time limit on it, so we can bring it back. All in favour say I? Any opposed? OK. 
 
Since he is asking you questions, Michael, I can scratch this off of my final comment. I do not know if this is for you over George. It is probably a legal question. The $10 million, there is really not a time limit on that, is there? But I think that you had said it would be unusual to go longer than a year. He did not say that? 
 
MICHAEL DYER: 
I do not recall that. There was no deadline in the appropriation. I am not aware of any instructions that have come from progress on these funds either. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Now there is talk about 20 million. I is there any legislator that moved from 10 to 20. 
 
MICHAEL DYER: 
I have not heard of any. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
I think there is discussion (indiscernible) covering costs and moving somewhere else. The legislator did not approve it. Good. That is good to know. Because it is out there and being discussed that there is actually 20 million available. OK. (indiscernible) 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
I had just have one part of the 38 subpart. I was will bring up the NarCan(?) Then as well, I am glad that we are directing staff to (indiscernible) with these drugs and it would be good it would be good to make it readily available to the community. 
 
Also, because we have woken up a sleeping dog today, I would like to bring back the" to however it was before it was rescinded. It seems to be the goal of this county to bring back the "Good old days," bringing back driving on the beach and putting things back to the way that things were. As long as we are in that mindset I would like to direct staff to at least get us some more information on what would be involved to get it back to the way the animal control board used to be run, and then maybe settle on an agenda item actually get all of that information. But I would like to see it go back to a board decision as part to an individual decision. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
That a motion? 
 
SPEAKER: 
I would second that. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I am not opposed to that. But I would also like historical knowledge as to why it went away. And the data around that. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK. Any other questions or comments on that before I call for the vote? Bringing back information on restoring the dangerous dog board as part of the animal control board? All in favour say I? Any opposed? Sounds like it passes 7:0. Anything else? No subparts? 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
First off, I went to my first career consortium meeting July 1. Interesting, a quick meeting. There was an elected representative from (unknown name), myself for Volusia County, and one for Bravard. The 
 
INGA MAURER: 
will be retiring in November so he chose not to participate in the leadership at this moment. But he does have a representative to step up and take his place. 
 
We did a lot to move forward to make sure that the new career Consortium does not drop sake on any services. And the board of 28, I think, has been installed. And they will need to keep the operation going. 
 
Something I am not involved with but I am aware with is the existing career source and review it for Volusia County, that we used to me of the board of back in the day, (indiscernible) is the main staff representative helping to cure that wind up committee. That might take anywhere from 6 to 18 bucks to resolve, get the money squared away and close up virtual administrative doors. 
 
We still have all of our career source buildings and people in place, by and large. The only person we lost in the shuffle right now is our old Executive Director, which was part of the plan. And we will see how the best goes as we move on. 
 
Second, we talked earlier about road improvements. So, in an effort to choke more stock up to the workshop, (?) I think it is important that we have more than one workshop per year. I would like to propose or make a motion to schedule a run of program workshop to come up with or the Institute they big long list of what we have to do, and how much it will cost in today's dollars. And then we can also discuss our way ahead to start funding that. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Second. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
That second with that really quick. Jake, you have made a motion to bring up a workshop to really do a cost needs analysis of road concerns. Is that correct? 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Roads and bridges. 
 
SPEAKER: 
We are in the business right now regard to the impact zones and meet with the cities and also the public in those areas to get feedback. So if we can schedule that after, that is what is going on now.  
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Thank you, that's all I have. 
 
TROY KENT: 
I want to start off with an apology. On paper it looks like a great fit for me to serve. My first priority is to this council to make every meeting that I can. Fortunately or unfortunately, my daytime job pays the bills on my household, so I have to let you all know I was under the impression that the Volusia learning coalition would have morning and afternoon meetings and I would miss the morning once and be there for the afternoon but it seems like they are all midmorning meetings. 
 
Once I declined 5 in a row, the question was do you have someone else who can attend? I want you all to know I will have to come off that learning coalition because their meetings conflict with my daytime job and I won't miss these meetings but I will miss those. I wanted to put that out there so you all were aware. 
 
Is Ben Bartlett in the room? It was public works Ben Bartlett show this morning. You had a lot on this agenda and you handle it masterfully. You did a great job and I just wanted to say thank you. 
 
SPEAKER: 
It's his birthday. 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
It really was his birthday over the weekend. 
 
TROY KENT: 
Happy birthday. Let me be the first to say happy birthday to you. I will make a motion that staff bring up some options for dangerous dogs in the County of Volusia. I think it is something prudent that we need to discuss to find out that there is no dollar amount associated with it. 
 
I think we owe it to our resident that if a dog is deemed dangerous, for them to keep it there is an insurance rider on that homeowner for that dog. We can talk about the amount, but thank you for setting that. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Hold on one second. With that have been covered with what you are going to bring back with the dangerous... No? 
 
SPEAKER: 
No. It wasn't part of the motion. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Alright. Then we have a motion on the floor that insurance requirements be brought back. I think they could be brought back at the same time now you have direction to bring back process required to bring that board back. 
 
TROY KENT: 
That is fine. Bring them back at the same time. 
 
SPEAKER: 
We can find out what other jurisdictions have for comparison. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
We didn't give you a time anyway. 
 
TROY KENT: 
I gave you three months so I will not give you time limit either. I know they have a dollar amount tied with Ferris. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Let's take a vote since he made a motion and it was seconded. All in favor of bringing back the insurance question for the dangerous dogs, say aye. Any post? Alright. 
 
TROY KENT: 
Just two more. Council, and chairman, we are better. These meetings are more streamlined. We had one meeting this month. And we are looking at six hours. We had a 45 minute lunch. We are looking at a six hour day and we went through a lot of items today. 
 
Chairman and Council, great job. George, great job. You are getting it. I don't mean that you were not before, but you are getting it as far as lining things up in a streamlined fashion so that this counsel can get the work of this county done. Great job. 
 
Lastly, all of us are humans and we don't always do things that make others look good or make us proud to be associated with each other. True story. The opposite, in my opinion, happened this morning when I had multiple people send me the news Journal with our at-large member, Jake Johansson, on the cover. 
 
I know he is chuckling, but I do not care. You made me proud to sit here with you. I am proud to say it publicly. I had one guy at Ormond Beach send me that clip and he had two words with it. Who knew? I thought I knew. But he did not, which tells me that many others had no idea. 
 
And I just want to say thank you for not only having a supercool job back when, but for the responsibility that you had, Councilman Johansson, and to say that I served with you, I am proud. I think you made all of us look good. He major county look good and I give the news Journal credit, if she is still here listening online, because they chose the right person to talk to. 
 
I public judgment publicly just wanted to say thank you. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
It's his birthday too. 
 
(Laughter) 
 
TROY KENT: 
So thanks for being that guy and, you know, it speaks volumes about not only your work ethic but your ethics. Proud of you. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Know? He chooses not to. Is that it? 
 
TROY KENT: 
Yes. Thank you. Have a nice afternoon. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Deputy County manager, Suzanne (unknown name). 
 
SPEAKER: 
The staff is able to serve on the board of the early learning coalition. I think we have done that in the past. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I will make that motion. 
 
SPEAKER: 
We could bring back at your next meeting a suggestion of a staff member who could serve in that capacity. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
I was going to give it to Matt because he does not have any of those boards. (Laughs) What happens when you retire? Alright. Thank you, Suzanne. That is good news for everybody, I think. 
 
Ok, Matt Reinhart. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
Thank you. First off, thank you again, also on the Narcan issue. (unknown name) has been contacting me with respect to that. It does hit home. April 29, I lost my brother to an overdose. It is an important issue. I wasn't there. It was up in Virginia. Thank you for bringing that stuff back. 
 
Paolo, is he still here? Happy birthday tomorrow. I got you. And that's all I have. Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Councilman Robbins. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Thank you. About a week and 1/2 ago I saw some of the crews working in my district and others. I shot a picture, put our information down. If I didn't receive 100 emails within a day thanking people or thanking our crews and County staff, everybody. 
 
We get these inquiries in. I don't... I know I don't have to follow-up, and that's a beautiful feeling, because I don't get complaints saying, "I didn't get an answer back." 
 
Long story short, these guys, and from what I am experiencing the last three or four years, within a few hours, not only do they get or the resident gets a phone call back, and email back, but I noticed here lately that they are getting actual service to their issue, not within 12 hours, not within 10 hours, not within eight hours. 
 
There was a lot that had been within four hours. You and your guys are on top of it. Coastal are on top of it. (indiscernible) on top of it. Often we hear a lot of negative, but you guys do a fine job, and we are really proud of it. So thank you for that. 
 
We also put out, I would like to make a push for maybe quarterly or throughout the year, there are quick links you put up in terms of how to report a service call. If your ditch needs to be cleaned out or there is some issue that involves a county asset where you do not have to send an email and you go direct to the source and cut out the middleman. However folks want to do it, we're happy to do it. 
 
Also, there is a program. I would like to make a push as well. Our dirt road system, there was a map that showed what roads in our community that we are responsible for. It was something that was interactive. As long as we can get that information out there, I think it could help a lot and take some issues or some time off. 
 
Good stuff with that. Proud of you. Great job as always. Is Brad here? There you are. Brad, if you don't mind staying here for just a minute. We've been getting a lot of complaints in the last couple months. It is something I have noticed. FW C has it on their website. Chrissa, I sent you an email with a link. Can you scroll? Are you able to blow the picture up? 
 
So this grass, guys. You will probably see it more often now. It is spreading quite a bit and I think it is within 43 counties in the state of Florida. I have been getting more and more calls on it. It is in hay fields, on property. Nothing I'm doing is killing it. 
 
This grass comes from China. It is very invasive. It is terrible. What I want brought to do, there is a UST ground that is available in other partnerships that can help out our community. Brad, are you able to hit on that? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Yes, sir. Danny asked based on the infestation we are seeing around the county if we can help private landowners. As part of the regional conservation partnership program, we have set aside $1 million to help private landowners with invasive control. When we bring that money down from the federal government in the spring, there will be a program available for our private land owners. In terms of our land management program at Parks and rec to control this invasive. But the problem is it spreads by a horizontal root system. You can spray it and it will die back but it has reserves in that root system and will pop back up. You have just great -- to spray it multiple times. That's why it spreads really rapidly. 
 
We are doing our part both publicly and we have a program coming online soon for private landowners. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
That is awesome. Can we make up one of those flyers on how to maybe reach out and contact and have farmers or folks... It's going crazy. I talked to a couple of people out there that cultivate and whatnot. But also throughout my district. And then anything that we can do or put out information wise on how to prevent the spread, both internally within our county organization, with how we do business, but also privately. 
 
A lot of the people that grow hay will hit multiple areas. Whatever we can do to get that out there. This stuff is bad news. It has taken over. Other than that, good job, Brad. Thank you.  
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Councilman Santiago. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Do we know if that grass is from the Wuhan lab? China grass. Just making sure. All the bad things have come from there. 
 
Two things, Jake, thanks for bringing up the workshop on the roads and we have to get on that is  avoided doing it before other things. I wanted to ask and we adopted and if staff can get to us some ideas also on that $5 million that is now tentatively still in there, methods, things, or ways we can leverage those $5 million somehow, we can make best use of it. Do we bank it? 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
My intent would be to have that discussion in one of the next two... 
 
**Audio lost** 
 
**Audio restored** 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
I will email you the name. I think it's Weed Slayer and I used several of them that are non-toxic and this one happens to contain acetic acid, like 16% and it will burn your skin. Clove oil, and it slowly takes it into the plant. Brad is right. It is rhizomes. If you cull the tops, the rhizomes push it back up. 
 
My experience is you have to spray it three times. The good part is especially in the hayfield or anything or animals are grazing, it is completely non-toxic and it's beneficial for the soil. Don't ask me how, but you will see an increase in earthworms. 
 
There is two of them. This one is actually better. The other one has Eugenie oil and this one has acetic acid which gives it the burn down. I will send it to you, too, Matt, and I don't know if it's something you want to experiment with if you're struggling with it. It is a huge problem. There is not much that will deal with it. 
 
This is kind of... Troy, you made me think about this. You know, everybody is always taking that's what time it will be done. I think on the way down, I heard from some staff 9 PM? Here we are. 
 
One of the people that have let me know that going into this meeting was Al and he is not here. I'm wondering if anyone has heard from Al and if he's OK. I'm wondering if he thinks it was a nighttime meeting because it would've been our second meeting of the month. 
 
I hope that is the case. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
He thought it was a night meeting. He did. He thought it was a night reading when we spoke last night. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Boy, will he be surprised and see how efficient we are. 
 
(Laughter) 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
We have voted on that. OK. Al is OK. The two points I wanted to make: one is that this was really a horrific week, nationally. We had a former President that was almost assassinated. 
 
I think part of the reason – and this goes back to what Amy brought up here. I think it is directly related to the level of political discourse, and things that are said in campaigns to one another, usually not said to another person's face, usually set on social media which you would never say face-to-face. 
 
I think that underscored the need to level the temperature on political rhetoric. I think that while that woman was speaking this morning, and used the word "idiots", I understand her feelings. I will defend her first amendment right to say that. It defends speech we don't want to hear. 
 
She has every right to do that. But I could hear the gentle groans around me every time that it was mentioned. I hope that we will get to that point where that rhetoric is toned down and we can come together as not just a country, but as a county, and cities, and have debates without making it so personal. 
 
I just wanted to get that out of the way. Lastly, Jake, you brought up you wondered if I was going to talk about 4100 S. Atlantic. I was asked to put that on the agenda by several members. I did not put it on the agenda today, because I wanted to give council opportunity to hear more about it and hear the outcome of a Thursday meeting, or I am on the agenda of the Ponce Inlet city commission. 
 
Michael, I wanted to ask you before I continue about this. I think it would be really important for Matt to be able to go, and any other Council member who wanted to hear what they said. Is that permissible with sunshine laws? Because it will come back to this counsel at some point. 
 
MICHAEL DYER: 
My recommendation is if you have a situation where you want multiple members to go to a meeting, we would have to notice it realistically. My advice would be to propose a joint meeting. 
 
TROY KENT: 
Chairman, may I? Mr Dyer, I know you are being conservative and I appreciate it but I have to ask – how is that a sunshine law violation? All of us, I think all of us could be present if we wanted to be and there is no violation unless Jeff Brower says something, and the David Santiago replies to it in the public and something we will vote on. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Or if we talk about it after the meeting. 
 
TROY KENT: 
I think it is extremely conservative, and I am appreciative of that. I almost feel like it hamstrings the elected officials. Why can't Matt Reinhart be there? It is his district. As long as he doesn't say anything and sits with his mouth shut, I want somebody to explain how that is a sunshine violation. 
 
MICHAEL DYER: 
I can elaborate further if you would like. My understanding is if you want to go to the meeting and not say a word, not exchange comments with Jeff, you are fine. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
And not discuss it afterwards. 
 
SPEAKER: 
...in that situation and you can engage and the Attorney General recommended because if you noticed there would be a Council meeting if that happened, 72 hours notice. OK? If you want to go and say nothing, that would be fine. That was my understanding of the question presented. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
The meeting is Thursday at 2 PM. If one of them wanted to go, could they email you and notice they would like to go and we could put the notice... 
 
(Multiple speakers) 
 
MICHAEL DYER: 
Our practice has been – we don't have to do it. When we find out that more than one of you are going to an event. We will notice it. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
How about a bunch of them? 
 
MICHAEL DYER: 
If you are saying you're going and don't have any exchange with Jeff, it limits you, but if you are willing to do that, that's fine. My advice was to allow you to be able to speak. That is up to you. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
OK. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I pressed the button for that topic. Jake is first. Jake is first. You are on the front page. I am on page 52. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Mr Chairman, I understand what just went down, but I do have a procedure question. So, the meeting is noticed, and I'm curious – the meeting itself, the Ponce Inlet Council meeting is noticed. 
 
Because we are not listening in on there? 
 
MICHAEL DYER: 
Notice of the meeting of town council. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Got you. If we notice it, if we meet the 72 hours. The public is invited to that meeting and the public will be there. We may vote on it in the future. If you notice it within the due time, and it is a public meeting, and more than one of us are not there, I will not do it. Can we then speak? 
 
MICHAEL DYER: 
Yeah. And we would have to take minutes and we will work with the town. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
That was curiosity. I will not do anything. Thanks. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
David Santiago. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Thank you, chairman. I am confused as to what you're doing here, anyway. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
I didn't finish that part. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I will pause until I find out what the County business is. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
The beach is in Volusia County. Citizens are really concerned about it by the beach. I went and met with them, one of whom is an engineer who is very worried about the rate that specifically 4100 block is eroding towards the highway. 
 
Rather than the idea from the residence and I agreed with them was rather than be reactive if we have a hurricane that takes it away, that we look at it now, for me, in a broad sense. That is what I have talked to Mayor Paretsky about at Ponce Inlet to see what input Ponce Inlet would have. They would be greatly affected if they lose that beach. 
 
The road, the sewer line, the water line that runs along there. I'm hoping that… Am hoping that Jessica can come. I know that she and Mayor Paretsky have a great relationship. They will have questions. 
 
The purpose of it is to discuss with them – I have talked with staff a little bit about this. Ultimately, changing the way that we deal with DEP and would it be possible for a local county, who is in control of our beach, to be able to take emergency measures to temporarily Armor of each using our coastal division, our environmental division, instead of having to go through EPA for something like that? 
 
I know the challenge is that FDOT will not be concerned about it, because they have a lot of concerns until that eroded beach gets within 20 feet of South Atlantic. The right-of-way is about 5 feet. 
 
So, it is to present it to the Council there with citizens going, anyway. They have asked me to come speak. What I want to get out of that meeting is if the city of Ponce Inlet, maybe Daytona Beach Shores, to see if there is a way that we can work together to get emergency permission for temporary armoring in cases where it is needed instead of dealing with the emergency after it happens. 
 
During Ian and Nicole, I watched – our staff, I could not have asked them to work any harder to get permission from the EPA to get armoring on parts of Wilber by the sea. The house, the dune, that didn't have a seawall, the dune was washed away after the foundation of the house and we couldn't get it done not from lack of effort, but we couldn't get it through EPA. 
 
Before the next storm, they approved 4 foot temporary cardboard seawalls and the first waves took that out, and the guys house fell into the ocean. He couldn't get permission to temporarily armor that beach to help him from losing that house. I don't want to see our residents go through that again. 
 
I am hoping we can find a way we can be more responsive in a short period of time instead of having to wait two years, and maybe never get permission from the EPA because of turtle considerations, or whatever else. That is the purpose of it. I will turn it back over to you, because I see you have questions.  
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I think the cause is a worthy want to get more information. My concern lies in protocol. This is not normal protocol in this methodology where one person goes there and we haven't received anything as far as knowledge. Unless I am wrong, it should be... If their administration or their city commission has identified a problem, whatever it might be, the protocol should be it goes to County manager, our team. They start to look into it and then they start up dating us and see if there are policy decisions that we can legitimately make on it. 
 
Are we going to, every time a city has a problem, we send a representative? Everybody has a right to speak. To me, it's purely critical regardless of the name of the individual. If Deltona has a problem, I'm not going to Sam going to go there and come back and report to what that is. I'm going to go to the County manager and then we will make policy because that is the our part. 
 
My only concern is proper protocol is the way it should be. It goes back to something I said six or eight months ago. I don't want to... 
 
**Audio lost** 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
... Put that we are going to do the same thing. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
I agree with you but I am following protocol as an elected official that the problem is (unknown name) by the sea has no governing body. The closest one is (unknown name). I want them to know... Their citizens want them to know what their concerns are because it also affects them. 
 
So we are going... And this is the reason, again, that I didn't put it on the agenda. I want to know if they want help, if they seem see the same concern. Otherwise, there is no sense in wasting time. So we will see what their city commission, what the mayor... If they agree with the residents that they would like us to pursue being more proactive in protecting the beach. 
 
Then we can bring it back and have an extensive conversation of how the county does that. Should they do it? I happen to think that we should pursue how to handle emergency situations without having to go through government bodies. We say all the time that the government is too big and too slow. Two years is too slow to get emergency measures done. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
There is nothing to prevent those individuals from coming before us. Their governing body is us if they do not have a city. They have direct line to our city manager. There is nothing to stop them from following the norm. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Matt Reinhart. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
Mr. Dyer, the notice threshold is 72 hours, correct? That's what you said. 
 
SPEAKER: 
The statute requires reasonable notice. 72 is a suggestion. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
I was asked by the mayor about being there. My concern was the sunshine issue on the fact that I had heard both. So thank you for clarifying. I guess my fear at the time, when you are sitting in that environment, I go to Ponce Inlet quite a bit. I go to those. And, inevitably, during the meeting, someone will ask you a question. The fact that I am there on a frequent basis and, no offense, but if a comment was made, they will look at both of us for an answer and I will be sitting there where I cannot say anything. 
 
So that was my concern. Not just the 72 hour threshold but the fact that I would be asked a question and couldn't respond. 
 
SPEAKER: 
It puts the councilmembers in an awkward position. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
I have spoken quite a few. Mr. Santiago brought up a good point. When I go to those, I go to give an update early -- only. On counsel matters, things that we approved, things we are working on, projects and so forth. The 4100 block of a 18, that is the county or the state road? It is the county, correct? So it is a concern, that area. 
 
But I also know that many of the addresses use a port orange address... Or a Ponce Inlet? I believe they use Port Orange. 
 
SPEAKER: 
That the post office issue. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
I agree. To me, it is closer to Ponce Inlet. 
 
SPEAKER: 
You are there governing body... 
 
MATT REINHART: 
For Wilbur. And I sit on their board. That was my only concern. I agree with what was said, but the fact that question -- questions could be asked. I have to defer back to... I cannot say anything. So... That's all. 
 
SPEAKER: 
One way to go about this, hearing different councilmembers make comments, is when you have something like this, up, bring it to this body so you can discuss whether or not it is a policy issue that you wish to endorse. Because the seven of you are part of a collegial body that follows a majority. So you can have conversations with other governments, but I'm sure a question will come up which is is this the position of the county? That gives direction to me and George. 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
Just to piggyback, because we are pole vaulting over this issue about Ponce Inlet, but I'm not sure yet why we are going to Ponce Inlet to begin with. The question as I see it is you have private property on the beach that is not properly taking care of a situation of lost Seawolves, for whatever reason. There is probably half a dozen reasons. 
 
What has been identified are some areas, we are in our storm season. They have minimal protection of their slope. In one case we can show you a picture of, one of the areas in that 4100 block. That's what we are talking about. Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words. You can see what has happened there is either a contractor, probably his, illegally moves sand. Either way, the banks have been covered. 
 
Good news and some of these we are looking at, this is an older picture, the sand is (indiscernible) down there so the bags that are left are being buried by sand that is naturally coming up. But you do have a breach area right there. Of course, that is a mountain of sand that has gone up and over that particular area. 
 
So I think the concern is that should we get a storm, depending on the size of the storm and what happens, with that cut all the way through to a county road? Therein lies the question. We have other places. This is one of the worst. But we have others where there are seawalls that are still missing and maybe there is a portion of the house left or maybe the house is fine but they haven't taken care of the seawall issue. 
 
Those bags are part of an emergency grant. We got the bags given to us and we were given 
money to put up this emergency measure with a particular permit to do that. But that is what we are allowed to do out there. Next to those rocks, that is not us. We are not allowed to do that. So that right there, that's what we are allowed to do. 
 
We have a share in this situation because we have some public assets, some parts that targeting their seat Walt repaired and they are wide open as well, so we are up making sure our bags for protection purposes are there for our projects. We are out there updating that as we speak. 
 
But the question gets into what about these private property, and maybe the question being yes, you are going to protect private property but you are protecting, possibly, that a one a public asset. 
 
I think, and Suzanne has had some discussions with DEP on what they consider would be a public asset, that would be too far away. They would say a 15 year storm or something along those lines. Basically, they would say that is about 80 or 90 feet from the road. They would separate the two. They would not agree that putting something up there is a protection of the road. 
 
The Department of transportation, when we have talked to them, they are much closer as well. They are looking at about 20 feet of the road. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Is this what you are referencing? This picture reference is what you are talking about? 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
That is the 4100 block. There was two houses there. There was  a sea wall there and both houses went down in the storms. I don't know if we have the drone view, but there was a cliff that was eroded away because there was water coming where the trap bags should have been there. 
 
It is happening without a storm now and it happens every week. We are losing more there. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
You are wanting to protect private property? I don't understand your interests. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
I'm not trying to protect their private property. They are not doing it. They have it up for sale. They are not going to invest money. If the road is breached, we use our roads, utilities, and everything behind that. If that whole area got flooded, I don't know how emergency vehicles get through. 
 
So it is a public safety issue for me. But there is private property on both sides that once this area of beach is gone, those houses are in jeopardy and that is the case up and down the beach. 
 
The woman we had, somebody here, remember the older woman who cannot afford to fix her property, her beach. So whose responsibility is that, to protect the public assets, the beach, the utilities, the safety of everybody else because one homeowner is not going to... 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Did the County manager say that DEP and FDOT said that they are not concerned? Did I hear correct? 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
I would have to defer. Suzanne talked to the DEP about lines of concern. And been talked to the Department of Transportation. About what they are doing and how they handle storms against their roads. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Just a couple of comments. I spoke, along with Jessica Fentress, with key staff at the Department of Environmental Protection. I think is -- that is what the chairman was referencing. You are right. Before the two hurricanes of 2022, the ability for property owners to get seawall reconstructed was limited. 
 
I want to remind everyone that the governor issued an emergency final orders on the heels of the second hurricane and private property owners have been able to rapidly get permits to rebuild seawalls. These properties would have been able to secure permits to reconstruct seawalls that came down in the storms, but for whatever reason, they have chosen not to and I think you can tell on these aerials that they are both for sale.  
 
The complexity is these are not private properties and an easy issue to overlook. We did receive the emergency grant and an areawide permit from the Department of Environmental Protection to install trap bags, 2 deep and 1 high, across the coastline of Volusia County as an emergency protection measure for those properties who wish to have them installed. 
 
**Audio lost** 
 
**Audio restored** 
 
SPEAKER: 
... The width of the sand here is beyond what would be deemed vulnerable by the Department of environmental protection at 82 almost 100 feet. It would not meet that test of being likely to erode and create an imminent danger. 
 
Having said that, a strong, direct hit from a hurricane is not the standard anyone looks at and making those determinations and I don't want to say that there is no way it would ever be vulnerable. 
 
I'm saying under the state's rules, this would be plenty wide not to meet it. I would also say, and Jessica can elaborate if it's helpful to council, the trap bag installations have proven to be quite effective. They have withstood a nor'easter's, they have withstood many high swells of up to 11+ feet with good success. 
 
While we were the first in the state to propose this type of method of temporary protection, we understand it is going to be repeated in other parts of the state. 
 
Here, unfortunately, once we installed the trap bags, it became the main installation of the property owner to maintain them and they have done a poor job of maintaining their trap bags in this location and we can obviously see that by the gap left. 
 
It has created concern from the chairman and others that will create a run up situation that will exacerbate erosion. You can even see in this picture the white sand that has begun to be exposed because of that gap. 
 
We did confirm with the DEP when we spoke with him that we could go back and, fundamentally remove these trap bags and replace them at the current grade of the sand which has accreted. This is a drone shot from Saturday. Very recent. 
 
The previous photo may be showed at better, and Jen, if you can go back to it, the sand has begun to acree and bags on the right side of this picture looks like it's not very high. That is because the sand is built up here. 
 
We could take these out and put them on the new grade of the sand as it has accreted two up, one deep, we will be out on the beach installing additional trap bags for the city of Ormond Beach and for some other properties that we are looking to protect during the season with the trap bag method. And replace these even though it was the property owner's responsibility in part, because we have interest in the right-of-way that lies to the west and the utilities in that roadway. 
 
Again, we have a slogan at staff. I have repeated it a lot this week and some of you have heard it – "Anywhere but here." That is my hope with the large storms of the season. I am not speaking to what would have been hurricane Dorian situation from five years ago. If we had a cat 5 aiming for us, not only would the trap bags be at risk, but a lot of assets in Volusia County would be at risk. 
 
We think in trap bags and areas that are not public properties, these are private properties, we are looking to create stability for reasonable situations and that may be a very... in my opinion, should be an option we do next week and add this to a list of areas and we are replacing trap bags and take out this gap. 
 
As far as installing permanent armorment on private properties, I engaged DEP and they have been engaged with similar questions across the state and were unable to address it. That brings up other public policy issues. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Which is an issue that I brought up. Emergency armoring would be putting rock or something there and when the engineer looked at it who raised my level of concern said, "You need emergency armoring here with or some kind of rock and specialized the types of rocks to keep this from continuing on," so we can continue public assets. 
 
You work really well with DEP and have been able to get a lot out of them this year. That can't go unsaid. We need to continue to work with them. The fact is... in the last two hurricanes, they weren't concerned with Ken Meister's home and it ended up falling in the ocean. And it didn't need to. 
 
He was willing to pay for it as a private owner to put rock whatever. "Let me protect my home." They said no. I want to find a way to rectify that so we don't have to wait for state or federal government so that we can protect our own assets. And the millions and millions of our taxpayers money that would cost to replace South Atlantic Avenue, and all the utilities that are there. I think it is responsible. Is there a way to do it? That's all I'm asking. 
 
Jake Johansson. I don't believe you got to finish. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
I didn't start. This is a very interesting conundrum. And I know this isn't the first time we've had this problem where there is a private area that probably needs government protection in order to possibly protect government assets. 
 
As you play this scenario out, I'm looking at the grade and I did drive by this weekend. It looks like it goes up in a decent clip. If we replace the trap bags it's a good start and it's private property and I understand we can't do it. 
 
We talk about trying to save the road and it happens. You see this throughout the nation. If it is a County piece of road and we protect it now, if we can get DEP, it would cost us tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of our own money to get it done. Unless we leverage the state, somehow. 
 
If there is a hurricane, heaven forbid, and it knocks out Atlantic Ave, FEMA comes to the rescue and the use federal funds and that thing gets rebuilt in a matter of three months. And it gets reinforced. Unless it's like Flagler, they let it happen twice before they figure out how to do it. Then they put a seawall of some sort up. 
 
To me, oh, my God, what happens if Atlantic gets ruined? And FEMA has to pay for it or the trap bags work and it's not an issue. And something else in peninsula. So, there are other ways, evacuation wise for Ponce Inlet to get out. 
 
To say if we lose Atlantic Ponce Inlet, we will be stuck out of there is kind of not true and it might be inconvenient, but not true. And as I said in the article this weekend, this is all about risk mitigation. How much money do you want to spend now to say something that might happen that somebody else will pay for? 
 
I think that based on what I have seen, and I don't know if I've seen all the information, but staff wasn't included in this conversation with Mr Bullard. And I know that he is a frequent-flier with ideas on what to do out there. 
 
I think that we give staff an opportunity to make it right here in the near future, as well as Ormond and all of the other places you are trying to reinforce here in terms of storm season. And hopefully that will be enough. 
 
Some other comments that I have... and I guess we cleared up the issue of why John Tyler was brought up. If it's not an FDOT problem, I understand he is the road guy. But it's the department of environmental protection, not the department of protecting homes on the beach. 
 
I see why there thought is on the environment and their's is a little bit different. A conundrum, yes, like David said, kind of give staff a chance to beef up that storm line with what they see fit with trap bags and whatnot. We hope that it's not a direct hit. 
 
As Suzanne said, if it's a direct hit, this is not our biggest problem. I'm all for moving forward and getting this area and other areas vulnerable set up for trap bags and pressing on. Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Here is my thoughts on that. Hopefully that will be enough putting up trap bags. I am not willing to go on hope and protecting the road before it happens, yeah, I would rather do that than have to get a direct hit and have that gone, and then say, "We knew that was possible. But we didn't think it would happen." 
 
That is an abuse of government. We do not know, yeah, there is all those roads behind South Atlantic Avenue. We don't know if they will be passable. Once that road is breached, everything is downhill all the way to the river. The residents that live back there are expecting that they would be trapped. 
 
I would hope that doesn't happen, but we don't know. So, how do we deal with it? Do we deal with it now and try and get state and federal funding and try to find a way to be able to do short-term emergency armoring and short pieces of land like this? Or just hope that it doesn't happen? 
 
I don't want to be on the news with the rest of you guys saying, "We didn't think it would happen." But it did. Troy Kent. 
 
TROY KENT: 
Thank you. I'm this close to taking my comments back about us running more efficiently and quicker. I swear, I say that and the final person's comments last one hour. It is work that needs to be done, apparently. 
 
My first comment is to Michael Dyer. Thank you for being conservative. I know that you are looking out for this council and I am appreciative of that. I will leave it at that. Thank you for being conservative. 
 
Suzanne, who said the trap bags can only be one deep and two high? 
 
SPEAKER: 
I will let Miss Fentress come up and that was the areawide permit we received and we can ask to amend that permanent. I will let Jessica speak to why that design was requested.  
 
SPEAKER: 
We have an areawide program -- permit that allows temporary (indiscernible) placement on property. The permit states that it is two bags wide. One hi. That's what it states. It also requires us to have all trap bags removed by March 21, 2025. 
 
TROY KENT: 
George said a picture speaks a thousand words. It does. Why would we not have five bags deep, five bags high. Looking at this picture, it's not anywhere near the north or the south of the walls that are there. Why would we not really protected until private property can come and do what they need to do? I know someone who is in charge of their condo in Daytona Beach and they just spent $1.3 million on their seawall and it looks incredible. To me, it would be a better solution but many more TrackBacks deep and high. Can we apply for that? 
 
SPEAKER: 
We can ask for a permit modification to change the cross-section of the TrackBack placement. The original concern was that trap bags were not true and trusted but have now become the standard in Florida. What they do not want, what they have been adamant about, is they do not want the trap bags on the beach long term. 
 
The reason we went after this to two wide one high was so that when they built them, they will remove these and it would encourage them to do the repairs as soon as possible. To get protection faster. 
 
TROY KENT: 
I appreciate all of that, but looking at this situation where there is a failure Suzanne mentioned, we could list the ones that are down below. Why would you not just make it higher and deeper to truly protect A1 a from possibly getting washed away? I don't get that. Thank you. That's all. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Councilman Robbins. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Thank you. We are in the middle of hurricane season. I think this is a valid possible concern. I would have liked to definitely have our people on board, our engineers, our experts, a couple of other people. I am big on procedure as well, like David and Jake. I think there is a way to do this and we have to be careful, because a lot of times I'm going over with my son. Right now he is turning 10. 
 
I don't want him to view the county being all over the place, disorganized or crying wolf, whatever saying you would like to use. But before we reach out to certain other agencies, I think it is appropriate to consult with your board because we are stronger together as a unit. 
 
I think a concern like this is valid, and if there was something to be done, which there well may be, but there may not. We can do a lot more and accomplish a lot more unified. 
 
Nonetheless, natural disasters happen. We experience them. My biggest concerns are how do we protect the taxpayers investments in these roads? I did a quick Arial, there is spots up and down a 1A. If this is private property, we are getting into a weird scenario, because somebody has to pay for it and I would like to hear the recommendations of which we are going to set this precedent, do we expect taxpayers to pay for some of these improvements or long-term protections on private property? 
 
I don't know how well that would go over but I am not hearing other options. 
 
We have heard that the DEP, that this is not in their critical to address so. We have heard alternate routes, people are not going to get stranded. But I would still like to know what we can do or what the plan is before we go in front of another governing body, especially when, in my opinion, all of this stuff, 110% of it, can literally be handled professionally with staff through the proper chains, with the proper resources and I'm not a fan of going outside that protocol. 
 
But that is just my two cents, guys. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Here we are talking about not going about protocol, but when the public calls me and asked for help, I am seeking to see, since we are the representatives, if Ponce Inlet would come stand along... I said repeatedly we need short-term emergency protection to protect our own assets and to protect... Which include the road and public utilities. Which include the lives of the people that live there that would be injured if it crosses the road and takes the road out. And then you talk about money. The taxpayers are then on the hook for rebuilding that road and repairing that. 
 
I don't want to spend taxpayer money to repair somebody's property, but they are let -- negligent here. Do we let them endanger everybody north or south of there? I am just not willing to do that, so I am asking the question and hoping that we will be able to come together as a community and come up with a plan of how the state, maybe the federal government will allow us to make decisions with funds that they have for the kind of a project. 
 
That's the ask, and I will find out from Ponce Inlet to bring back here to see what this counsel wants to do with that. 
 
Staff is involved in this. Staff is... Coastal division and whoever else you are working with, Jessica, has a long-term plan and we are working to that now and we need to continue that. But you started off by saying we are in the middle of hurricane season. We are in the middle of hurricane season and we have dangerous breaches. 
 
Do any of us want to be sitting up here and say oops? 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
When we talk about unifying a group of men and women here, I was caught offguard. I talked to the mayor and a couple of people, all of what you are saying is fine and dandy. I agree with you. But it is the manner that I believe we could handle it procedurally. There was calls or letters sent out to other state agencies, this, that, the other, without coming to the board. I just think we would be stronger together. If we were serious about taking aggressive action like this and going toe to toe with the state and saying we need help and we need it now, we need our engineers, we need other certified engineers to get out there. And all of our resources prior to getting a ball rolling. 
 
We are trying to hit the ball, we are running to third without going to first and second. Now we have to backtrack and untangle these issues to address a problem. That is all I am getting at. We'll want to protect public interest in Public Safety, but we have to go back to the right way or we will not get anywhere with the state, cities or the federal government. That is all I am saying. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
When Danny just said I sent that runner out to a lot of agencies, I did because I wanted FDOT to be on notice if there is a concern here. The DEP. But I sent it to you as well. Apparently, did you send it to any other council members? I cannot because of sunshine laws. 
 
SPEAKER: 
The County manager's office distribute that. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Thank you. So they knew about it before this meeting? Ok. 
 
SPEAKER: 
A couple of the comments from counsel reminded me to announce, may be a public service announcement of some sort. After the emergency final order, they also enacted a state grant program for private property owners not available to local governments for armoring projects. Dollar for dollar, $300,000 from the state towards armoring their property. For every dollar spent, they can get a dollar from the state for a project valued up to $600,000, so they would pay up to 300,000. 
 
For condominiums, that grant doubles an amount up to 600,000. 
 
The staff announced to us, when we spoke with them, that a couple of things... Unlimited grant dollars, no match to public property owners for sand. So if a private property owner wanted to build a dune in front of his sea wall, the state is basically giving away sand on a first-come first serve basis. No match required. 
 
As far as temporary armament, we will talk again to DEP, but (indiscernible) permanent armor and requires design and approval by several state agencies. But that grant money is available. Permits are available to these and other property owners, and we hope our community is well aware, we are going to do some public information efforts to make sure those grants are well known in the community. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
I will make this short period, I know you want to talk, but I think you just underscored the problem. Rock is not available. Sand is. Sandy is not going to do the job. It is a waste of money, it will be out in the ocean. And when I was here, I met with a County employee, not by design. He happened to be there and he approached me and he was hoping I was a property owner, because County staff has rightly been trying to locate the property owner because there is a problem and so he is not going to take advantage of anything when we cannot reach him. 
 
So that is the dilemma. That is what makes this so difficult as a property owner. Delinquent, deficient and not caring at all about their neighbors or our utilities. We can't even reach him. Matt Reinhart. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
Thank you, chair. You just answer my question. What's considered temporary armament. That's why they are not going to allow it. Somebody made a comment sometime ago that this would be approved at this time, correct? 
 
SPEAKER: 
I defer to the state. But their designs have been less robust than that. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
The chair just brought up a good point. They cannot get a hold of the property owner. The sandbag solution... 
 
SPEAKER: 
There are two realtors representing these folks. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
That answer that question, thank you.  
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
David Santiago. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I will be brief. Make a phone call. You will get an offer from the realtor owner. How much are these properties for sale for? Does anybody know? If somebody could find out. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
They are cheap, if you are looking. The prices dropped. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
That is pretty subjective. I will say this, Mr Chair, and we have beaten this horse quite a bit. My concern is these are private property owner issues and the states and the feds have thrown a lot of money at this private property owner that is on the beach. 
 
I am not a fan of spending County tax dollars and anymore County tax dollars on beach private property issues. When you buy on the beach, good for you. You have to understand the responsibilities you take with buying on the beach. 
 
The people that have $150,000 homes on the west side should not have their tax dollars paid for someone with a $5 million home on the beach. No resentment, but it's a self responsibility thing. I am of the opinion today that our agencies have told us they are not concerned with the road. 
 
If they were concerned with the road, different ballgame. If they are not concerned for the road, why should I be? I'm not an expert at any of that and I yield to them. I don't want to search for a problem that is a county problem. I think that's what we are looking for is a county problem. I get trying to help individuals, but government cannot solve all private property problems. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Am not trying to. I'm not trying to solve a public, private property owner for them. You talked about money? It's going to be far more expensive to repair the damage on that road and our utilities, and other public safety issues if nothing is done. I am really looking for a way to do that with all the proper agencies involved, because right now, they're not allowing us. 
 
It is not a private property issue – it is public. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Chairman, they are saying they are not worried about that. Is that not enough for you? You are saying, in all due respect, that you know whether they professionals? 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
A professional told me you have to be... 
 
(Multiple speakers) 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
That professional carries more weight than to public policy professionals. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
It means enough to me that we have to go back and look at the state. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Mr Santiago, have a listing price of those two parcels and one is listed for $1.5 million and the other one is listed for $1.75 million. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Can we call them and make an offer for $100,000? 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
We need to wind this down. Councilman Robins. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Thank you. Suzanne, how do I frame this right... if we do work, because we can't do this and it's deemed in some way, shape, or form that a county asset is in jeopardy, for whatever work that we do, can we attach that lien to the property? The one that sells, the taxpayers don't lose out? 
 
If indeed, these theories carry more weight than the experts at the DEP and other federal agencies, and every other letter agency known to man. 
 
MICHAEL DYER: 
You cannot lien the property. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
If it's deemed an emergency to protect the asset, and we do some sort of protection, and we cannot lien... 
 
MICHAEL DYER: 
We can look at if you want to create a special assessment district and essentially charge the property owners for maintenance of the seawall that we would maintain. I think there is a couple policy issues we have to look at. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
I am throwing out and a problem was brought to us with no means to pay for it and no solutions whatsoever. I'm trying to see what is available so we don't get this thrown in our faces that we don't care about public safety or public assets. 
 
MICHAEL DYER: 
You are dealing with private property, correct? So, this trap bag project that the state permitted and we were able to get some funding for, we were putting things on covert property and that's why we got the easements. 
 
Typically, with a special assessment a district, for example, you are putting up streetlights and the poles on public property or right-of-way. Here, it is a different situation. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
George, just to close and not beat this dead horse anymore, we've had talks with Ponce Inlet since this started and what do they want to do? Just to save time, resources, and energy with this. What would they like to do? 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
I got a sense from the city, or the city manager, I think they are looking to us as far as what is going to happen. I know they have a concern about private property. You are essentially protecting private property. 
 
You have one example because the 4100 block was shown and my understanding is there is 15, 16 properties and there is actually a house there were a building on the seawall, as well. 
 
That one there we are showing, you have the shots of the road. The others, you also have a house. So, we are unprotected in theory, up and down the A1A. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Just for everyone's protection, could at your earliest convenience send an email with the bullet points on the issues we are facing on why we can't do certain things? 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
We are prepared and actually fixing these trap bags from our properties now. Adding a few down here is not a big deal. Probably the bigger deal is the fact they are supposed to be gone by next March. Assuming we get through this season, we just need to make sure we don't have any hurricanes. 
 
You get through there, and everybody is supposed to have a seawall up by next March because those bags are supposed to come out of there. The meantime, we are coming along with the project for dune re-nourishment and part of the success on that depends on them having their seawall. We may have another issue in that we will come along and put the protective dune system in areas, and some of these homeowners have not done their job yet as far as the seawall. That is something else we will have to discuss. 
 
As far as... 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
With certain challenges we are facing. 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
We will try to put something together. The other thing, too, I was saying around is the office so to speak because we have an interest, so to speak. Does anybody look at what Galveston, Texas looks like after they took a full direct hit it by category 1. You can kind of see. I think that the seawall will be the least of our problems. 
 
It flattened the island. We are not talking about from there to A1A, we are talking across the island and there were seawalls there, too. We don't know what magnitude of storm we will get and we went through an unusual situation here by having back-to-back storms, which until that time, we had fared pretty well through multiple hurricanes going back to 2004. 
 
We just do not know what mother nature will throw at you. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
I appreciate it. It helps and sometimes we get blamed and public safety is our number one thing. That would help us out, George. 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
By the way, the Public Safety answer, get off the island. That's the other side of that. We cannot protect people and that's why we evacuate people and tell them to get off of there. I don't want people to start thinking they are safe, when they are not. Because of the direct... 
 
We have yet to have anything like what happened in Galveston, Texas, and that was category one. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
OK. Thank you. This meeting is adjourned at 4:24 PM. 
 
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