(Music plays) SPEAKER: Welcome to the Volusia County Council meeting, the meeting will begin in two minutes. (Music plays) JEFFREY S BROWER: OK if everybody would find a seat, we will start in about 60 seconds. OK, that works well. We will start the April 16, 2024 Volusia County Council meeting at 4:01 PM, we will begin the meeting in just a minute I will ask you to stand for the invocation and then the Pledge of Allegiance. If you are a member of a faith group who would like to participate in the invocation, please just send an email to KGreen@ volulsia.org Which is Karissa Greene. We appreciate the participation. We have pastor Tommy Clayton from grace life church. If you stay with me for the invocation and remain standing for the Pledge of Allegiance. PASTOR TOMMY CLAYTON: Thank you, let us pray. Father in heaven thank you for the opportunity to call on you and ask for your wisdom. I thank you that you love this county and the citizens of the county and appointed these men and women to care for very complex issues that require a lot of wisdom and care and thoughtfulness. I prayed he would grant that to them today because they hear whatever issues they are facing and I pray they stay united, that they would be fair and just. That they would be humble, reasonable and listen to people many of whom may not share their worldview or their take on things. But we trust that you put them here and we need them as a county. What they do is important and it will impact people's lives in a variety of ways. I pray you protect them from discouragement and thank you that they are in this position and in this county that we have protocol and processes for people who have problems and want to be heard. And thank you for the day and I pray that they would use their time wisely today and so would the people who come to share. They would be fair and equitable and we ask your wisdom for all these things in the name of Jesus we pray, amen. (Multiple speakers) (Pledge of Allegiance) JEFFREY S BROWER: Would you call the Rule please. KARISSA GREEN: (Roll Call) JEFFREY S BROWER: We have a full house. We will begin the meeting with public participation. And I will call you in order that the forms were handed in. When I call your name, just come to the podium please. The podium adjusts up and down so you can get the microphones close to you when you speak. Everyone wants to hear and it is being live streamed, not to make you nervous, you will have three minutes to tell us what you wanted to tell us. The Council will not respond to you because of a matter of time but we do follow up with you if you have questions. Three minutes, you will see a clock on the screen above me and also on the monitor at the podium. First of all, we have Bella Schwartz. SPEAKER: Thank you Mr Chairman counsel for allow me to speak today. Good afternoon residents, while driving or biking, how many of you enjoy seeing thousands of beautiful large trees, bulldozed? Virgin land turned to lifeless concrete and millions of innocent animals displaced. And dead. Who here once more subdivision? More traffic? More heat, longer lines at the grocery store? More accidents, more polluted water? Who here wants more development? I don't. You don't. She doesn't and neither does he. And together all of us, make up the people of Volusia County. My name is Bella Schwartz, I am 15 and I am here to speak on behalf of all the students of DeLand high school, Daytona State College and all the teenagers of Volusia County who will soon be of voting age. Just to mention. Although it is true I have to say the use is upset about what this committee has allowed to happen to our nature and we want it to stop. We do not want more development! We do not want more development. We want clean air to breathe that is filtered by trees, clean water from Springs and McLean County that hasn't lost its soul to greed. Once the nature is gone it is gone forever in the future belongs to us. I am here today to personally ask all of you to do the right thing. Don't accommodate developers by changing zoning restrictions. Don't rain the beautiful wetlands and white casting votes concerning the environment and conservation, but that kid inside of you do the voting. I have faith in the kid inside of all of you. Because that kid is wise and knows that the green of a tree is better than brighter than the green of a dollar because one has life and is alive in the other is not. Things that are green are better when alive. And so each of you blessed to be in the unique position to protect our future and embrace it and invoked green so that Volusia County can remain alive as well. Thank you. (Applause) JEFFREY S BROWER: Is Glenn Landers? SPEAKER: Good afternoon counsel, thank you for the opportunity to speak here today. I am Glenn Landau (audio issues) and take you back to 2002 so I will use numbers that were derived from the news Journal. We know how accurate they are. At that time Phil was talking -- costing us... 175% increase. A class a record was $35,000. Today it is 145,000, 315%, a flatbed 30,000 and today it is 140,000, 372% in insurance and minus low talking to some of my colleagues. It was $1000 per truck and today it is 13,000 per truck. That is 1200% increase. And among wage back in 2002 was $5.15 and we couldn't pay a driver that then and we couldn't pay a driver the $12 it is now, we get them for 18. 130%. The average County employee back in 2002 was making $21,300. The average employee today is 50,005 $77, 138%. Top County management back in 2002 was (Indiscernible) and today there around $246,000, a McDonald's hamburger in 2002 was $0.79 and today it is $1.59. Basically 102%. A cup of coffee not at Starbucks but 7-Eleven was $0.72. Today it is $2.19. I hear that is low. That is a 203%. A dollar back in 2002 with the inflation rate today is a dollar 72. The cost of living increase from January 03 to 424 is a 6% increase. What I have read over the last 22 years everything is gone up over 100% and it remains the same for the last 22 years. Thank you for your time. JEFFREY S BROWER: Jon Rogers. SPEAKER: Good afternoon Chairman, councilmembers, County manager and attorneys. I am also a second generation tower. And I guess Glenn said it all, I had an opportunity to speak with your assistant manager, assistant attorney and County manager and I got the chance to speak to them a few minutes before the meeting. So, we are definitely wanting to sit down with staff and discuss the fees and clear the air and we appreciate you guys hearing us today, six months ago we came and didn't get any traction at all. I can't believe it has been six months. So if you guys could set us up a workshop we would definitely appreciate that. I know it is up to you, you guys direct the staff and you guys are in charge of setting ordinances and resolutions. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Mark McNamara. SPEAKER: Good afternoon, Daytona record. Thank you for the opportunity to come out and speak. As you heard, the numbers, and brought a couple of resolutions from other County ordinance supporter hours. Lake, Flagler, Putnam and you can look over those. And just like to table something here. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Helen Taylor. SPEAKER: Hello, my name is Helen Taylor and I am the owner of Buddy's towing in Daytona Beach. I am the first generation. I am a woman-owned business, that is why I am here because they wanted women to come in. Basically what they have said is true, we have not had a raise in 22 years. We are all family own, we are not corporate. We are struggling to say -- stay alive. As our Councilman I feel it is your right to help us do it. Our expenses are getting up and our tow rates are not. So I ask you to consider increasing the rates. Every other county is doing it, we are not asking for something no one else has done it is keeping up with inflation. Insurance, trucks, taxes, you name it, everything has gone up except our rates. Thank you for your time. JEFFREY S BROWER: Glenn Landau. You turned in two cards. Amanda Balboa? SPEAKER: Hello, my name is Amanda Balboa, second generation as well we are a family owned business with era service and towing, with the towing industry we would like to continue this to 1/3 generation that would be lovely, I don't want my family legacy to die here because we couldn't get a rate increase. Anything you can do to get us on the agenda we would greatly appreciate, we will keep coming back into we make something happen. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Paul Richardson? SPEAKER: Afternoon, counsel. My name is Paul Richardson of Deland, let me make something abundantly clear right off the bat, (indiscernible) is not a new concept, in fact biologists worldwide have recommended that, as in 1942 as part of the national institutes – national Museum of health and medicine of human development anatomy center, these are required to be used professionally along with textbooks, let's take quote from scientific works and what the actual science tells us about when human life begins. Quote, development begins with the process in which the sperm and the gamete, the egg, join (indiscernible) I'm hoping to pronounce that right, though life is a continuous process, it is a critical landmark because under circumstances a new genetically distinct human organism is greater when the male and female nuclear blend in the egg, the new fertilized egg.", As you can see science says life starts at the egg fertilization and legally murder is the killing of one human being by another the debate is not about a woman's health, the cult of murder, given rise to indiscriminate we murder unborn human beings the same cult of murder is the same that also celebrates state-funded euthanasia for anyone for any reason, and the same cult of murder celebrates genocidal terrorist organizations like Hamas and the Hoothis funded by Iran. This he is a huge review, I think anyone with basic scientific knowledge should vote no to amendment four and put it into the evil agenda of cult of murder, God bless Volusia County God bless Volusia County and her internal ally Israel. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Patricia Franzen? SPEAKER: Good afternoon. Patricia Franzen, resident of Bear Creek Village in Ormond Beach. A group of Ormond Beach resident scheduled appointment with Clay Irvin on March 15 to get questions answered concerning the process for the field terminal. No one told us until we arrive that it was a conflict of interest for Clay to meet with us. We met with attorney Soria, Amy Michaels and Clayton Jackson. Attorney Soria educated us on his job working as county attorney. He stated he is to make sure the process is fair, and he is unbiased. A binder was turned in that day containing compiled letters of opposition. We are submitting documents in the public record on this day, April 16, 2024, the following are letters that have been submitted. Volusia County school Superintendent Sheriff Chitwood and official statement from the city of Ormond Beach, Mayor Partington Ormond Beach Chamber of Commerce, a joint statement of opposition from the Ormond Beach fire department and Ormond Beach Police Department, the Volusia league of cities, state representative Tom Leake, the Bear Creek HOA, Pine run HRA the Sierra Club and retired judge Joe Will. Please note all department under the city of Foreman Beecher under the city letter. We are also turning in 4400 signatures from Volusia County citizens in opposition to the fuel terminal with comments included. In addition we are including a letter signed from the HOA and 146 Bear Creek residents, that was sent to the FAA in August 2023, expressing their concerns of the fuel terminal as it related to the airport. Thank you very much for your time. JEFFREY S BROWER: Katherine Pante? SPEAKER: Katherine Pante, Daytona Beach. To quote Tom Leek and the Ormond Beach reporter, "as a proponent of Ormond Beach I am working every day to derail this project I call on the leadership of Volusia County to join me make every lawful effort to stop the proposed fuel terminal in Ormond Beach. Additionally I called on the leadership of Volusia County Council to join me and make every lawful effort to stop the proposed fuel terminal project in Ormond Beach. Did the Volusia County Council make every lawful effort to stop the proposed fuel terminal? No, they did not five council members voted against the moratorium that the county attorney and staff sold to the residence as the last legal path forward to address the current I-2 industrial zoning countywide. Those five-county members voted in unison given the appearance this has previously been discussed among them prior to the February 6 vote. Something else was out of sync, neither the County manager nor the county attorney stepped up to the podium to address the Council and recommend approval. This is highly suspect because when County staff wants something passed they definitely make a pitch and sell it to the Council. We have witnessed this in numerous Council meetings, attorney Soria gave no answer as to why County staff or county attorney did not recommend approval to the Council. Some of our residents are former legal professionals who have combed through our county ordinances and land development codes, our own ordinances should prevent this project from ever being built if used appropriately. These have been presented in both letter form and during public comment numerous times. Attorney Soria claimed they did not apply. Referring to catchall zoning. It appears like the goal of county staff in the five council members is to interpret our county code of ordinances to suit the needs of a foreign Corporation. How is this fair? Unbiased process for Volusia County residents. Something is definitely awry when a foreign Corporation who refers to themselves as an 800 pound gorilla boasts about being low and go, which is slaying for getting dirty work done fast and furious, giving more property rights by this council than every resident or business owner within a few mile radius, and if we actually think about things, that opening prayer where everything you do affects every resident in this county. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Ilona Kraft. SPEAKER: So the video you see playing on the screen feature the 4400 signatures and comments submitted by concerned Volusia County residents in opposition to the fuel terminal. It takes approximately three minutes to quickly scroll through these thousands of names, each of them resenting real lives, real individuals, real voters, who do not want this massive fuel terminal in their backyards. Can you blame them? Volusia County has industrial to zoning referred to as a catchall, the fuel terminal does not require a special exemption zoning to store 20 million gallons of fuel next to residential neighborhoods. A sports complex, a nearby airport with student pilots, and existing flooding of 65 Bear Creek homes an infra-structure that is not appropriate for such a project. Also the property contains wetlands. When questions were asked about security being required for such a facility, attorney Soria said the county does not require security. We asked what agencies the application will need to be submitted to the federal and state levels, attorney Soria said the county did not know. When asked what documents the county would receive from state and federal governments, attorney Soria said none. Mr Irvin, as the best in the business, I hope you are listening right now. I-2 zoning allowing catchall without security requirements, public safety is in the charter. Does all of this sound like a suitable location for 20 million gallon fuel terminal? Additional examples of heavy industrial include but are not limited to aerospace mining, oil drilling, locomotive manufacturing, and chemical production. Volusia County allows any industrial use, and to the statement that the Council does not want to rehash the I-2 zoning, the responses the I-2 zoning was ever hatched in the first place. Please review the I-2 zoning and special exemptions only and one last question for Mr Irving, Attorney Soria and the Council, why is there no timeframe for a developer to respond? Surely the county realizes more development is on the horizon with 2500 homes, 2,500,000 ft.² of retail office and light industrial warehouses, coming to Ormond crossings nearby. The continued residential development in the area escalates all the issues brought forward, including lack of infrastructure and flooding questions. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Suzanne Scheiber. SPEAKER: I am Suzanne Scheiber, Ormond Beach. Continuing along with the septic permit, the Department of Health requires applicants to connect to sewer and water if available. We asked who makes the decision, since sewer and water are available in the area? Attorney Soria told us to ask the city of Ormond Beach. We did ask Ormond Beach city planner Norman Sager and Randy Hayes in email and the response was the same as previous. The city commission voted unanimously on November 2023 not to annex the property or provide utilities, nothing changed Attorney Soria, but the county already knew that. Continuing to the question who can file an appeal, attorney Soria clarified after decision is made any affected person can file an appeal. We asked for the definition of affected person and process for filing an appeal to be emails? Attorney Soria said he would do this, there has been no email sent. Eight people were in the room when attorney Soria said he would send the definition of an affected person in the process, there was no misunderstanding. You see, it is unprofessional to say something will be done and not follow through, the page for the fuel terminal in Volusia County website has not been updated since February 28, after Soria gathered operational data at the airport, they are gathering data from the airports in the area, why isn't this on the County website? During the meeting with staff a concern for the lack of transparency was expressed. The same lack of transparency still exists. On March 22 and new list of follow-up question was submit it to Amy Michael's by email, as of today we have not received a response. When might we be hearing back with answers? Please include the definition of affected person at appeal process at the same time. One piece of information attorney Soria made clear is the Volusia County Council sets the policy that he, as county attorney, is to carry out. That is called politics. While there are laws in place the Council has not addressed Volusia County's responsibility to the catchall zoning, the charter, letters of opposition presented here today. Did the Volusia County Council make every lawful effort to stop the fuel terminal? The Volusia County residents say no. Thank you for your time. JEFFREY S BROWER: John Nicholson? SPEAKER: John Nicholson, Daytona Beach Eastside, let me start off with what the young lady first wanted to speak she wanted no development and she wanted – it was said nobody went to Veldman, but I do, absolutely, I want as much as we can afford to have. Why is development. But development nonetheless. I like the idea of having lower taxes, I like the idea of having better quality colleges and high schools. I like the idea of having tourists come in and pay for our bills. There are a lot of advantages to having development. The larger the city, the more opportunities it offers. Museums, art, etc. Secondly, I don't want to beat a dead horse, but 22 years? Last meeting it was 20 years, 17 years, again I ask you to update every five years. I have no idea how much money they've lost, over the last 22 years because we didn't incrementally increase it. So I'm asking you, or people in the city County, the state, cannot afford to lose money as we neglect things to keep on top of them. I don't like to use the word abortion, on the side God is created it creates a human being. Have from the mother and have from the father it is a unique, different entity. You cannot kill another human being regardless of whether you are the mother or not. It also brings up the problem with what do you do if a mother can kill her child but a father can kill their child? Not equal. Third, the fuel dump, I don't know how many times you are going to do this. People are not getting the information. You think they know. It is still out there that David Santiago would vote for the fuel dump. And he didn't say that. They believe it wholeheartedly. When you say be cautious, it doesn't mean you agree. When you say that nobody up here once to prevent the fuel dump, you haven't been listening to Troy or Jeff. There are a lot of reasons why there was a five – two vote, it had nothing to do with backdoor dealing. All of you talked to the County manager.. All of you talked to the lawyer. There are lots of ways to make the decision without talking to each other and the public needs to know that. I wanted to talk about something at the end, Daytona Beach area number one in luxury tourist accommodations. JEFFREY S BROWER: Think you. Council that brings us to the first item on the agenda, the consent agenda, does anyone have an item they would like to pull for a vote or discussion? SPEAKER: I make a motion to approve the consent agenda as it is presented. SPEAKER: Second. JEFFREY S BROWER: Motion to approve the entire consent agenda by Troy Kent and second by David Santiago. Any discussion? All in favor say Aye. Any opposed? And the consent agenda is past seven – zero. Troy did you want to make a statement? TROY KENT: Director George (Unknown term) only God (Unknown term) I think that is seven meetings in a row where your staff was running efficient and effective and not when item pulled. SPEAKER: Talking about pulling one so you can break the streak. JEFFREY S BROWER: It brings us to item 2, the purchase of 1568 and 5096 N. Woodland Boulevard for the supervisors of elections office and warehouse. SPEAKER: Jeaniene Jennings director of business services. SPEAKER: Lissa Lewis. SPEAKER: We have car lengths from SVN alliance who is the county realtor. And back here we also have Tony Brown the VP and (Indiscernible) who we are buying from. And the director of facilities. We are seeking approval to buy the Gateway center onto North Woodland Boulevard which is 1444 through 1558 and 5096. With the intent of moving the supervisor of elections out of her lease on Woodland Boulevard and combining it with the warehouse located out on Highway 44. It will provide her with an additional 535 ft.² and she is put aside almost $6 million and our CIP program for over six or seven years. And also the remaining of it will come from our sales tax trust fund which is technically a reserve. The total price for renovations is 2 1/2 million. And with the leases of the shopping center and the elimination of her lease, we anticipate conservatively having this paid off in 17 1/2 years which is a very good return on investment for us. I know a lot of people think, it would take longer than that but we have done it very conservatively was filling up the building and just very quickly, her lease right now has an automatic 3% increase every year so that 261,000 starts off at that but by year five she is over $300,000 per year. In the building we don't own. I will turn it over to Lissa if you have any questions. SPEAKER: Good evening, I want to take this opportunity to thank you for considering this offer of purchase of a building. As you know as Janine said, we have been looking for a building for a long time for a warehouse. And now we want to combine the warehouse and the supervisor's office. I have always felt it is better to own where you have something at the end of your mortgage payments other than nothing at the end of the lease payment. So with that, I have found this building and I will tell you it goes back a little ways. You did a voter registration event at was frontier communications at one time in the office space. And how it was laid out in the space that was there, was just phenomenal. Ever since then I have been interested in this space but at the time, it was not available. So, we looked elsewhere and our home now has always been a temporary home until we could find something permanent. I believe we have found that in this space. And not only is it spending money just for the supervisor's office in the warehouse, but it also gives some income coming into the county with those rental, retail spaces that can be leased. I think it is a win-win and I will tell you, I don't have to tell most of you in the audience or even you that the county is growing. Not just with the development but with that development comes the people and with the people, they registered to vote and it means polling places and more equipment. You need a place to house all of that. I will tell you I have never begged for more places to host elections that I have this year. It is getting harder and harder to find them. We went from over 100 locations back in 2020 and now we are down to 90 because I had to combine. But we still have to have the equipment for all the voters and we need the space for that. Bringing the warehouse and supervisor office together with be a big plus. I will tell you that the warehouse on 44 would open the building for the county, I believe road and bridges itching to get in there as fast as they can if we do move out of there. It is a nice space. And as I mentioned we will have room to grow. Which when the county grows, we grow also like every other office in the county does also. So, I respectfully ask for your consideration on the building. I want to add also we are bringing all of our furniture that we have where we are, the cubicles, computers, desks, tables and if I can get the double doors we purchase, I will take those also. Shelving. Anything we purchased that belongs to the county is coming with us so we don't have to buy new items. I'll tell you there is only one thing I want new, I want two new flags for the office. When we move because they just look sharper when they are new. I respectfully ask for your consideration. And fingers crossed. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you and please remain available for questions, both of you. Does any council member have a question. We will start with that first. MATT REINHART: Thank you. You answered one of my questions, I wasn't sure where the warehouse was but you said it is off state road 44, how many miles from your location? SPEAKER: 4 1/2 MATT REINHART: It would put it at zero? With all the talk about voter integrity and counting ballots and things of that nature especially in recent days, this would obviously supply you with a much more secure location. My understanding it has access on the back with the big large rollup door so the truck can back up into it so more secure. SPEAKER: Yes, three loading docks. MATT REINHART: Is there a way to secure a fence around the back as well? SPEAKER: I'm not sure it could go around the perimeter of the building. MATT REINHART: I think asked the question before. He said it gives us more room to grow, I agree. This would also possibly as we see the sheriff's department is trying to get away from as many pieces as possible. Because we are throwing money away. It is good to own especially when you're buying a home especially paying out rent, or paying someone else's bills. What you say, your current landlord, is it a good relationship right now? SPEAKER: It is not the best. MATT REINHART: It is not the best? We've had a number of leaks in the building, it has been a struggle to get them repaired. The air conditioning has been an issue. And it is probably one of the worst parking lots I have driven them. This one has been repaid. So we didn't pay for that. SPEAKER: No we did not. MATT REINHART: And when I say about the opportunity for it to grow, there might be an opportunity for other elected official offices that may currently lease areas or, they are growing as well to possibly move to that location, down the road. Just a possibility but I like the fact that we can collect rent. And I'm not trying to take away business from you. Thank you very much, I appreciate your candor in answering the question. It is a difficult one. JEFFREY S BROWER: Who else has a question? DON DEMPSEY: Having frequented Sonny's barbecue for years, to obtain this belly, I remember when frontier was leasing out of that. I remember there being, there was a big struggle with parking between Sonny's barbecue customers and the frontier employees. And I recall, I remember seeing parking areas reserved for Sonny's, customers only that were in the area that we are going to buy, the county will buy. Has that been resolved? Do they have a long-term lease? SPEAKER: There is a lease for nine parking spaces. DON DEMPSEY: That is it? SPEAKER: The office, I am a compassionate partner. And frontier did mark off spaces. It said frontier parking only and had a security guard to prevent anyone going to Sonny's parking in their spaces. It is going to be a fight for parking spaces during elections. And I don't know that any of us can keep people from parking anywhere now. I will keep them from Sonny's and make sure of that but everywhere else it is no holds barred. DON DEMPSEY: That is all they have the rights to? Not the county parking spaces? When does the lease and? SPEAKER: I do not know. Not sure of that. DON DEMPSEY: Do you know what the building was purchased for and when? I was trying to look up on the County website. How much the sellers bought a foreign when they bought it? How much it has appreciated since they owned it? Do we know that? SPEAKER: The parcel was purchased together with the adjacent property across the street. So it is not apples to apples. SPEAKER: Were you asking when the... SPEAKER: My name is Tony Brown and I am the property manager and the vice president secretary of the corporation that owns the building. The building was developed by my original partner Leon Berlin who passed away a number of years ago and he was involved in the original development back in 1986. 86 or 88. DON DEMPSEY: It is never change chance? For some reason I thought... SPEAKER: There was another partner in the development and Mr Berlin subsequently bought out the first partner. DON DEMPSEY: To remember the appraisal then when it was bought out? SPEAKER: I was not involved in the property about that time. DON DEMPSEY: Thank you very much that is all I have. JEFFREY S BROWER: Other questions from counsel? Do you have questions? OK, Danny Robins? DANNY ROBINS: Thank you, chair, I'll make it as quick as possible. How long was this home on the market? SPEAKER: It's really not on the market, I approached Mr Brown myself and asked if he would be willing to sell us we were looking for a place. And trying to get out of leasing, I approached him about selling the property, and he was open to it and so, in talks we have come to a mutual-- he does want to retire, but he didn't think this soon. DANNY ROBINS: The reason I was asking Ms Lewis is because it's a very niche property, very uncommon for someone to come in and take the whole kit and caboodle in my experience. We have a list of the plus pluses once we assume for instance if you did buy this building, I see that has a couple things here that are very costly. One is the flat roofs, there's always problem with flat roofs, and I'm guessing believe it or not I used to put roofs on when I first moved down here. There's millions of dollars worth of roofs and expensive repairs. Do you have any projected numbers on the age of these roofs, and are we going to be-- what we are looking at in terms of maintenance, repair or complete replacement once we get this? SPEAKER: Yes we do, good evening, Jim Corbett, we did do pretty substantial due diligence on this building prior to entering negotiations. The area over her floor space and office is currently what we call a D grade. I did an initial report with ARC they recommended for placement however under roofing assessment contract they have a firm that doesn't do the roofing but does engineering and they came back and said we could get an additional 3 to 4 years with proximally $15,000 in emergent repairs. Lisa and I haven't discussed it, I would prefer we programmed in the renovation budget to replace the roof in its entirety, just for the simple reason that she's encountered so many difficulties with the leak and we feel like it would be prudent when no ones in the building to go ahead and get all the HVAC replaced as well as the roof in that area. DANNY ROBINS: Once again do we have a number? SPEAKER: Approximately 880,000 full roof replacement. DANNY ROBINS: Is that just for her building? SPEAKER: Just her building, other sections of the roof are not nearly as bad as hers, they were B or C grade. DANNY ROBINS: I will almost tell you they are probably going to need it, so that's one thing that I'm considering in this. How about-- I saw that we did the payment, how we got every couple of years we have to reseal it. Do we have numbers how much is going to cost to reseal it? SPEAKER: Parking where the roof? DANNY ROBINS: Parking lot. SPEAKER: With just resurface we will probably at 7 to 10 years out of that before we have to touch it I did do an approximate cost, typically per square foot we are looking at between $8.75 or three dollars per square foot of maintenance cost annually. I did put I believe that in the proposed budget, that includes the 17 1/2 year return on investment so there's a built-in maintenance cost associated there. DANNY ROBINS: AC units. How much for AC units for everything? SPEAKER: Roughly $1 million, the entire building. And there is, I want to say but don't quote me on this, upwards of 40 units on that building, so there's a substantial amount of AC work. DANNY ROBINS: We are up to an additional 2 million there, new flooring, how about flooring? Are we going to have to put new flooring or any renovations to get this turnkey releasable to new clients? SPEAKER: That's going to be a discussion with Karl how we negotiate tenants with leases. I don't typically want to get investing in a tenants rental, if they want to come in and Lisa they come in due their turns, and whenever we do a property we do our own build outs and find them. DANNY ROBINS: Are there any great I didn't mention that would be assuming kind of the liability on in terms of anything I missed? Whether AC units, lighting, maintenance, flooring, anything else I missed that I have to factor in here? SPEAKER: I did a comprehensive renovation repair for her area specifically, but some of the line items do include the full complex, such as security system for the building, obviously we want to get cameras. DANNY ROBINS: How much is that? SPEAKER: We have a 250,000 all the budget for that one. DANNY ROBINS: And we will be taking this off – what's tax revenue if this right now? SPEAKER: That I can't answer, I have not look and what the tax role is. SPEAKER: It's in the city – the city is (indiscernible) the majority of it. DANNY ROBINS: OK, that's all I have for now, thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Any other questions for staff? SPEAKER: Chairman I do have one question but it can be tied in with my comments so they can start the timer for me, I'm fine with that. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK I have one question. Matt did a good job asking most of the questions that I have, but he asked you about your current situation and I'm just wondering if you could go into a little bit more detail, you are paying rent to now, or lease, what happens when you have a maintenance issue and you make a phone call, they are taking care of or what your experience? SPEAKER: General maintenance facilities are handled for us, but the big items we have had from just about-- we moved in April May 2020, and August 2020 we had a deluge of rain that came a knock down the ceiling in one office that ruined quite a bit of equipment, not voting equipment but computers, devices we use, and the same office it has done it three times. We have had leaks all over the building, we've had what they call affectionately "pigs" the little siphons that collect the water and it comes down into a bucket, all over. All over. We have been very lucky that none of us has hit our vote by mail equipment or any of our voting equipment or our server that collects all the data for tabulating votes. It has been in the server room but has not been over the server. And if we know rain is coming, we have big tarps we usually cover what we need to in the event that it does come through. But we, over cubicles, it has leaked, they did replace the roof finally which was promised to us about the first year we were in there, they just replace it last year, we have still had some leaks. And the roofer blames it on the HVAC, the HVAC blames it on the roofer, this last couple of rains that we've had that haven't been that heavy, but luckily we haven't had any leaks and they actually just this week came and removed our last two pigs that we had. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK, – SPEAKER: We've had several issues, and it's been facilities that has handled what they can, but you know, roof and HVAC is on the owner. JEFFREY S BROWER: So do we get reimbursed? SPEAKER: We have had rent deductions to cover them – the cost. JEFFREY S BROWER: We just take the reimbursement off the rent? Real quickly to go back to parking spaces Councilman Dempsey was referring to. We will receive rent for those spaces? SPEAKER: Yes. JEFFREY S BROWER: Yes, Troy can? TROY KENT: Thank you, Chairman. Like I said have one quick question and if you don't mind Chairman I will go right into comments, for Karl Luntz. Complete disclosure, Karl and I played on the same Little League baseball team when we were 10 and 11 years old, nice to see you again, Karl. And by the way, the guy was a great ballplayer back then. Karl, as the realtor for the county, talk to me about your comfort level with making sure that we get all the other units rented out? And then a timeline with-- reasonable timeline which you think that will take place? SPEAKER: Yes, certainly. We are lacking supply, that's why we are at this point basically. Jeanine engaged me a couple years ago as well as Lisa to go find (indiscernible) and we are drastically undersupplied and available spaces in this market. In all of Volusia County for that matter. That's why we are here at the point where there is some extra property that needs to be leased, because this ends up being the very best option that we could find without doing construction. And you all are well aware of what the construction costs are these days. Regarding the leasing, as soon as some of these maintenance items are addressed we will have a full-fledged marketing effort to make sure these spaces are leased. My best guesstimate will be within 12 months the entire space will be occupied. TROY KENT: Thank you, that's all. Counsel, let me know you where I am on this and how I got to that point. The supervisor Ms Lewis rejected last week she had a phone number station with me and want to reach out in person I said is that really necessary I think we can do this over the phone, nothing against you Ms Lewis but that we can handle it over the phone I thought the conversation went well. But at the end of the conversation she still want to meet in person, so I said I guess you are not complete the confident in the conversation and she said not completely. So, we met in person and Jeanine was there as well, by the way we met Sonny's, I love that place too, Don. And I was able to put eyes on the center, and actually go into the building that our supervisor will utilize as her new office and storage area. One of the reasons I think she was a little concerned about my comments was, I said why would we spend this kind of money where we can keep you where you are for 43 and half years, for this amount of money we can keep you there for 43 1/2 years. And she talked to me about the importance of owning, and I agree with that except that 43 and half years kept jumping out at me as kind of tempting to me. Then she let me know that, you know, she wanted me to look at the center and that we would own the entire center. I said now you're tickling my buying bone a little bit so one of my questions to Jeanine was when does the County - went to the residence of Volusia County - start seeing a positive cash flow if we purchased this property. The answer was 17 1/2 years. For a guy 49 years old if I was doing this privately I wouldn't wait 17 1/2 years, but for a county who is going to be here, I like this idea of making money for our residents, I like the idea of giving you a permanent home where we have more control of your location. And if there's a problem we can address it rather expeditiously. I like that. I like the idea that your storage area is going to be in conjunction with your offices. I like the idea that you have room to grow for offices in that exact same space that you have. I don't like this picture that we are showing everybody because the picture shows the parking lot not redone, and that parking lot has been redone. If you have not laid eyes on it it's beautiful. And the center, the center is beautiful. So, because of those reasons, and you know, I can hear both arguments about taking this off the tax roll, Mr Robins, I hear you on that. And then you hear the argument about competing with the private sector because we are owning something like this. Listen, I'm all for the County of Volusia making money for its residents. That's going to happen eventually, it's not a bad thing and I can argue that and feel like I'm, you know, holding my own with anybody on why I made this decision. I'm also appreciative for the past six years you've been saving money and you are coming to the table with money to help us purchase this. So for those reasons, I am a yes on this. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman Dempsey? DON DEMPSEY: Lisa, I was wondering, you know the parcel where DCF used to be, where the Sheriff's office used to be until the tornado white pivoting out now is all vacant? That's up for sale as well. Have you looked at that area? At that location? SPEAKER: We did look at that before. DON DEMPSEY: Could you tell me, how much were they-- I see Colliers has a listing on that how much of asking for that compared? SPEAKER: I'm not sure how much they were asking but to build is going to be-- DON DEMPSEY: They have a 43,000 square-foot structure just west of the ABC liquors, which is convenient for some of us I guess. Now I'm just teasing, but I'm just wondering-- SPEAKER: That is leased. DON DEMPSEY: It is leased. SPEAKER: I don't know if you remember frontier was there and now it's Sykes, and it is all back in there and is leased so it is occupied, the building is. DON DEMPSEY: do we have any idea what they are asking for that place just knowing? I was just – this is a smaller-- you're going to get another 60,000 square-foot building, just curious if this was explored. But as far as buying versus leasing, I mean, there's a big difference between-- there's a big difference in my opinion of being a flipper and a holder in real estate when you are flipping stuff you want to buy cheap as possible, fix it up and then flip it and sell it for high. But when you're holding, I guarantee you everything a person on this dais has looked at a house, almost pulled the trigger on investment property and then 10 years later said man, I wish I had bought that lays because look how much it is now, there's condos into land that were selling for $30,000.10 years ago. Now they are selling for 180,000. SPEAKER: How many did you buy? DON DEMPSEY: No, when you thing about the difference between the lease I understand what you're saying, 47 years of leasing money, but you're going to understand this copy is going to appreciate in value and the county is going to be here in 48 years, 78 years, and that dirt is going to keep going up exponentially, so it's just we're going to get a return on it. I am purely in favor of buying versus leasing. You gotta own. It's just a matter of if this is the right spot it seems like it is a good spot. SPEAKER: I have been looking on my own and called people on my own. We have to be in the county seat, so we need to be in DeLand. We can't go outside to look and it's in DeLand that we need to be. I have looked at more buildings than even Janine knows, we have driven around on weekends looking for property that is big enough to build before I realized how much building costs were. And I thought no way could it be 15 million to build a building. This is a win-win for all of us. Most especially the citizens as you said. We own it. We will own it, we will not be paying money, I don't want to say throwing it down the drain because people live in apartments and lease and I did it before also. And you know, for newly married people or small families that may be what they need to do but for a County to house an office space for the elections department or if he moved other departments in there, it is there, that is a permanent home. We haven't had a permanent home since elections moved out of the old elections building that is now a parking lot. SPEAKER: Now there are buildings downtown and we are paying the appraised value now but it may be worth 20,000,010 ten or 15 years from now. You can't say that it will cost 60,000 to lease sometime down the road. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: I agree, this is a lot of money and so, what you are seeing is a counsel being cautious. I support it and I am going to tell you a couple of reasons why I support it. One reason is because of a man that sits in the back named Ryan (Unknown name) and I have a lot of faith in his ability to look at our finance and keep us safe. And you and Brian and other staff have planned for a long time. How would we pay for this because he knew it was coming. You have been looking for six years for a building. So, we have planned for it in a way that we can purchase the building without taking out more debt for future generations to pay off. We are also instead of paying rent and a lease, we are actually collecting rent. And when we look at the picture, there is a lot of rent to be collected there. It is a good argument and it is something we have to consider that while we are taking it off the tax rolls, I suspect the rent we get will far exceed whatever the tax income from those units are. But when I look at it, I see that one day the county, another county division, another County office is going to be moving into those places and so now we will have it. We don't have to build it. Don pointed out, it is not going to get less expensive to build or to rent something further on. So we really are planning for the future and reducing the burden on future generations and our young people. I like the idea of collecting rent. So, I could go on but I just think, I think you came across the very best possible deal we could find. In DeLand and at a great intersection with a lot of parking and yes, you probably still will have parking problems during voting times. Jake Johansson. JAKE JOHANSSON: I now have questions. Lissa, how do you intend on managing that parking problem? Everybody on their own? Are you going to put somebody out there during election time to manage the mayhem? SPEAKER: We do have poll deputies during early voting. We will do the best we can, I have been out there myself but I will have to let you know that during elections, there is 150 foot no solicitation zone. We manage that 150 feet within it to keep the campaigning, solicitation out. Outside the 150 feet, JAKE JOHANSSON: People camp? SPEAKER: They have tents and cars and all the signs and it will happen and you have to allow that per statute. JAKE JOHANSSON: Alright. Mr Kent mentioned, it came around but I want to talk a little about it. If we stay in the current occasion, we rent we could be there for 43 years. Can you manage in their for 43 years or will you grow out of it? SPEAKER: We have outgrown it. If I may, I went to George (Unknown name) when I came into office when we had issues with the elevator and I told him, I went in tears and said I cannot do another election like this. So, that is why we have been in a temporary home so we could find something but even then at 2016, it was still 2020 before we found that space. JAKE JOHANSSON: Things seem to be going in your direction so don't shed tears yet. Mr Lance, somebody said that other renters in the rental spaces now? SPEAKER: There are some renters. JAKE JOHANSSON: But there are some open spaces? And you had mentioned in the your speaking to Don that we are in short supply. Yet, here we have open inventory. I am just a guy, I don't understand. SPEAKER: I preface that there is some deferred maintenance and as soon as it is addressed which is already budgeted, I fully anticipate the spaces to be leased quickly. JAKE JOHANSSON: I got you. I think that is all I have. Chairman can I put a motion or is that too early? I would like to make a motion to approve to get it... SPEAKER: Second. JEFFREY S BROWER: We have a motion to approve the purchase by Jake Johansson and a second by David Santiago. And David did you have... Troy Kent? TROY KENT: One quick comment for the Council and the supervisor, I want you to know that the supervisor, she talked to me about keeping furniture and bringing it and she is serious about saving tax dollars and it is one thing that I said, listen, I am real big on when you are getting a new space you deserve new furniture, you shouldn't junk the new space up was stout. You shared that it is great stuff kept in good condition and I wanted to say thank you for that. DANNY ROBINS: I think everybody has brought up great points. Thank you for that, Lisa I support this. I was asking tough questions to get it out on the table. Some of my reservation, is we are dealing with inflation right now. And it leads me to believe that possibly after the election if the administration changes will it change? So if there is reservation, that is where I am at and I want to support this but it is still a lot of money. And we might be able to do better. You know, so that is where I am at. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you, I don't see anyone else who wants to speak. So is Karissa over there. Can someone call the roll? JAKE JOHANSSON: I can call the roll. JEFFREY S BROWER: (Roll Call) are you feeling good? SPEAKER: Yes I am. JEFFREY S BROWER: (Roll Call) and you have a yes from me. I feel like we are on, what is that show youth you have seven yeses, you are going to Hollywood. Congratulations, you have worked hard on this. SPEAKER: (Indiscernible) JEFFREY S BROWER: That brings us to item 3 approval of performance contracting agreement with Siemens industry for cost saving energy efficiency upgrades. SPEAKER: Did we have slides for this? Good evening researcher, Council members and staff. It is with great pleasure that I bring to you this item for consideration. This is part of the Siemens energy performance contracting previously approved by Council in September of 22 to conduct an investment grade audit. We went around to the largest facilities to include TC K, courthouses, agricultural center, beach safety in the ocean center. Siemens industry identified approximately 17 facility improvement measures for us. And these had specific rate of returns and cost savings guaranteed with them. Going into this we knew it may be a multiple phase multiple year contract so we picked some of the best and widest to cover the widest range of facilities in the county and what we came up with where four facility improvement measures that would save approximately almost 4.3 kWh annually. To give you an idea how much of that, it is approximately 400 single-family homes. I was looking over the audit today and it is actually the amount if you turned every single light off and all the buildings for the entire year that is the amount of energy savings we will get out of this. Produced substantial when you include that will stop this is an outline of where does facility improvement measures are going. LED lighting, high-efficiency transformers and controls to optimize HVAC systems and an air curtain at the courthouse. As part of this there is a performance assurance services program which is part of the guarantee for the contract and an annual cost is associated with it. We do it annually and get a report and if we are not meeting the guarantees by Siemens, they cut us a check at the end of the year. It is something we anticipate doing for 4 to 5 years to make sure it is trending in at the end we will evaluate annually to determine whether we should continue with the performance assurance. With that I will stand by for questions. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Any councilmember have a question? Then David Santiago, David Santiago makes a motion to approve. Second by Councilman Reinhart. And comments, Jake Johansson? JAKE JOHANSSON: I do have a quick question, the Siemens tract, if they see something else pop up by the end of the year is a major energy loss is that something they have to find a redo reinvestigation? SPEAKER: The measurement re- investigation is a continual process, it will be a quarterly report we will know relatively early on if something is amiss. JAKE JOHANSSON: What if there's an 18th process that pops up, like Lisa Lewis buys a building and we find out it's leaking like a sieve? SPEAKER: We are allowed to do further investment audits and maybe look at other buildings in the future. JAKE JOHANSSON: Perfect thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: We have a motion and a second to approve the expenditure of $4,498,194. All in favor say 'aye'? Any opposed? Motion carries, 7 to 0, well done. That brings us to item 4, resolution finding public purpose and approving issuance of educational facilities Authority of Volusia County, Stetson project revenue bonds. Speaker good afternoon Mr chair and counsel, Russ Brown, deputy attorney, resolution for funding public purpose and pursuing issuance first Anderson University in accordance with requirement of internal Avenue code. The bonds do not constitute that liability for the community, matters of Stetson and bonds attorney was here, Leslie is my mistake notices as a public hearing it's not required is just presentation before counsel before approval of resolution. Additionally we request that when a motion is made that where is clause 4 on the resolution there's a reference that also requires Palace County to approve the bonds. We are actually not doing any of the bonds in the counties was a report of the requirement here so we will take that out of the resolution prior to execution. And without a will turn it over if you have any questions. JEFFREY S BROWER: Any questions from staff? For staff? David Santiago? DAVID SANTIAGO: Moved to approve. JEFFREY S BROWER: Moved to approve as requested. Motion to approve by Councilman Santiago, second by Councilman Reinhart. Any comments or further questions from counsel? All in favor say 'aye'? Any opposed? Item 4 has approved unanimously 7 to 0. Item 5 is an amendment to a special exception for a nonexempt excavation located on state road 44 and Clay Irving, I'm going to let you take it from there. CLAY ERVIN: Good afternoon, to Clay Irving Director of resource majoring in growth, today is a request to amend this has been amended several times is brought forward by the County Council as of last week we had heard from the applicant who provided us additional and new information regarding the basically soils condition and geology of the site that impacts the analysis that was submitted to us originally. As part of that analysis it showed that there is no short or long- term drawdown to the wetlands or adjacent water bodies. This was the primary reason that staff had identified a concern to the PLDRC as well to the applicant and made the recommendation of denial because that is one of your specific criteria contained in the zoning for these types of uses and to grant the closeness of the excavation to the wetlands. Given that information we sent it to our independent third-party, which is part of our code requirements, to review the data. Included in your packet I believe was sent the information where our expert confirmed the findings that were provided to us by the applicant and supported their findings. That being the case, staff is indicating that it is in compliance with that requirement. All of the other conditions that were identified the applicant has agreed to, and I will quickly kind of go over those so that way the public and everyone else can hear what is going to happen is that if you decide that this does meet the criteria established for the waiver of the 250 foot setback integrate the extension of and amendment to the special exception, that all conditions from the original special exception approved in 2019 will carry over with this one, except for those that are in direct conflict with proposed plan. The applicant shall address existing code violations that continue or not mitigated by the site plan and special exceptions. So in other words, if something is a violation now that would be addressed by the special exception and the site plan that may fall off, but anything other than that would be addressed to the code enforcement process, including an updated wetland delineation. The deadline to complete the excavation would be modified and would be extended out to June 4, 2028, that is reflecting a three year extension from the current deadline for them to complete. The final site plan shall demonstrate from top of bank to the watering area will not be any closer than 75 feet from the wetland limits which include the required 50 foot upland-- sorry, wetland buffer and 25 foot setback. And lastly, the applicant and our consultant will work to modify the monitoring program to ensure that the dewatering and excavation will not have any impact on the existing wetlands. There's a monitoring program in place, our consultants have identified some changes in regards to the location, the applicant is not feeling that the movement of those monitoring wells is appropriate, but there may be other options we want to have the ability to work with them to come up with an alternative that will address their concerns and ensure we are getting proper data and the way it is being monitored. So, this did come to you originally with the recommendation of denial from both the staff and Planning & Land Development relation commission, we have received new information which addresses those concerns that were identified, if the motion could address those five conditions that were identified than staff believes they have addressed the majority of our issues. If there's any issues for staff, we will be glad to answer. JEFFREY S BROWER: Questions for staff? DAVID SANTIAGO: One question Mr chair? JEFFREY S BROWER: David Santiago. DAVID SANTIAGO: Thanks for the update. As applicant agreed to those conditions prior to today's conversation? CLAY ERVIN: yes, I can have them come up and verify themselves. DAVID SANTIAGO: Thank you, number question. SPEAKER: It's all most like a Matlock murder case, sitting here the 11th hour new information and staff are recommending denial but now there's new information and this is really what staffs biggest concern was. what I didn't hear you say is because of the new information is the staff recommending approval even though our paperwork still says denial? CLAY ERVIN: yes her, what I'm saying is staff recommend approval based on what's on the record now. TROY KENT: I just want to hear you say that for the record, I'm glad you sent this off to third party, on first glance it doesn't pass the sniff test, it's been delayed several times and now comes before us, wow look at this they have no information that comes out. And I know the applicants to be upstanding great members of the community but the optics were little concerning so I'm pleased we have it on public record the staff recommends approval and now the third party said this is accurate and ready to go, thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman Johansson? JAKE JOHANSSON: If we had done this on schedule before the information came out and voted no, what they have been able to come back and reapply with the new info? I've got like three questions for you, so... SPEAKER: So your decision should of been based on the evidence presented, so in an ocean hearing, the applicant has opportunity to present is probably going to present the evidence that after the last meeting got together and reviewed it, so that evidence that our third-party consultant reviewed would have been presented to you at the last hearing. That is, you know, they would have to go through great extent to explain what the evidence sounds what those soils mean, so we basically had the chance to discuss it and review with the third-party consultant and find a review and opinion on it. JAKE JOHANSSON: Got it. This is a quasijudicial hearing, right? So we need to-- SPEAKER: You have any ex parte commune occasions? JAKE JOHANSSON: I have spoken to the gentleman, so-- and so my next question is, usually during quasijudicial type earrings, you often tell us that we can't hear additional data that went above and beyond the PLDRC? Is that different at this point? SPEAKER: Those quasijudicial hearings are appeals, this is not an appeal. You are the final decision-maker, the PLDRC's recommendation only, their decision is not final. They take their first shot but ultimately you are the final decision-maker, and you collect all the evidence including the evidence before the PLDRC and any additional evidence that would be presented before you. JAKE JOHANSSON: Perfect. And one other for either Clay or you. I understand their current infractions that are being addressed, are those going to be adequately resolved before we move forward? Or are they going to happen concurrently if we should approve? CLAY ERVIN: If this is approved as part of the conditions in part of the analysis showing how they are going to come into compliance address the impacts that were not permitted by forward litigation, and wrapped into the site plan so we can address all the issues at once. JAKE JOHANSSON: Thank you very much, that's all I have. Chairman? JEFFREY S BROWER: Since this is a quasijudicial hearing, any other judicial member have any ex parte they need to declare? Anyone visited the site or talked to the applicant? TROY KENT: Yes from me, applicant and staff. SPEAKER: Applicant and stuff. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK, thank you. And Clay, a couple questions for you. Reading through what happened, the PLDRC, have they heard this new information? CLAY ERVIN: No sir, the PLDRC has not seen this. JEFFREY S BROWER: It seems like I recall Ervin Forrester and also someone from environmental staff on site saying they witnessed a drawdown of the wetlands. Does these calculations change that? CLAY ERVIN: No sir, what you're saying is we asked for the monitoring information to verify whether or not there had or had not been any drawdown. That information did not yield any kind of impacts whatsoever, but we did identify some concerns for the method-- for the monitoring that our third-party identified. And that is the issue we are asking be addressed so that if you all, as part of one of the conditions y'all would include in the approval if that's what you choose to do. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK. David Santiago? DAVID SANTIAGO: Thank you Mr Chairman thank you staff for all the work they've done on this, rural pit, we need them, right? It feeds the infrastructure for many things on the public and private sector, this is one that currently exists, it's been operating for years, I would rather have one successful borough pit than multiple unsuccessful borough pit. So I moved to approve. JEFFREY S BROWER: You make motion to approve-- DAVID SANTIAGO: I am in that motion, with the recommended alterations. JEFFREY S BROWER: We do have members of public wanted to speak to this this is an open public hearing, let's do that now and see if Councilman has any more questions. First we have Steve Wonderly. SPEAKER: Good afternoon I am Steve Wonderly and live in Daytona Beach and I'm here representing the Sierra Club. A lot of new information all of a sudden here. One question about this, I am not sure why the PLDRC would need to review the new information to make a recommendation on this before you decide. However, a lot of what I was going to originally say still holds. The current setbacks requirements for the site are already drastically lower than if the site were established today. The, if established today a setback of 250 feet would be required and as it is the it is grandfathered into requiring only 150 feet of setback and the applicant asked to reduce that further. Reducing it further creates a danger to wetlands, water and wildlife. The current wetland delineation for the site, unless part of the new information you received was a new wetland delineation is over five years old, it is obsolete and there have been unpermitted impacts to the wetlands since then and the applicant has not unless that is included providing an opt dated -- updated wetland delineation. Wetland buffers and wetlands and tree preservation areas have been impacted. There are established minimums to protect our water and wildlife. To simply waive those because of the waiver was requested would be a mistake. Especially given that they have already been violations. We don't have a current wetland delineation and restrictions apply to the site are far lower than today's standard. Sold the Center for wetlands provides a means to calculate the appropriate upland buffer with its -- widths. A 300 foot buffer is necessary to protect 50% of wildlife. And a 350 foot buffer is, only protects 70%. So, I still have to ask that you deny the application for the amendment. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Jon Baker. SPEAKER: Jon Baker, DeBary. I will ask that you deny this. It is good that they finally meet the criteria for a waiver but the fact is they broke the rules. When I worked for the city of (Unknown name) 30 years ago if we had a serious environmental infraction we would shut them down with a stop work order and they did not do any work until they went to the city Council and paid a fine. You don't get compliance by rewarding noncompliance. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. Jake Johansson. JAKE JOHANSSON: I have a few other questions but you can hit my five minute timer if you want. Clay, if you are done talking. I notice that St. John's management District manages a little bit of what we are doing here and we increased the minimums from what they said. It seemed that St. John's River water management doesn't go down to the water table and impacts to adjacent wetlands. Why don't they or alternatively, why do we? CLAY ERVIN: I can address the issue in regards to why we do. And because we do have specific wetland impact prohibitions in our comprehensive plan and land development regulations. It is done to ensure protection. It is why we have as you referenced St. John's has a 25 foot upland buffer that is based on an average. Ours is set 50 feet because this is within the natural resource management area. And even though St. John's may not directly require or address drawdown, they do follow-up through the consumptive use process because they see it as a wholesale removal of water from the water table. So they are aware of it, it is not in the forefront of their analysis. So it is a concern that is voiced by everyone. The information we received made a very clear analysis of what the drawdown could be. And in the data that was provided, it was referenced that this is similar to serology used by the South Florida water management District in their analysis. And so, our consultant concurred with the findings and agreed as they saw there would be minimal drawdown. Again, minimal correlation to the wetlands. That is why we have the monitoring to ensure that the modeling is actually (Indiscernible). JAKE JOHANSSON: Deletes me to my last comment or question, we had two people from the public and talk a little about encroachment to the wetlands. The monitoring equipment they will correct put in or make better or otherwise put in a better place, should mitigate most of the risk against wetland encroachment as far as water drawdown and whatnot? CLAY ERVIN: The first speaker identified existing violations, there were intrusions into protected wetlands a day of acknowledging they will work with us to do the mitigation for an address that through the code enforcement process. And yes, the whole point behind the monitoring wells, the placement of where the re-watering either pipes or ditches spreader or swales, all of those things that go back in there are things we will work with them to ensure that the areas that need the re-watering will get the re-watering and the net impact to the water table will be zero. JAKE JOHANSSON: Thank you very much. That's all I have for now. SPEAKER: (Away from mic) JEFFREY S BROWER: Would you like to come and speak? And tell us your name and who you are with please. SPEAKER: My name is J Kristi Wilson the third, I am an attorney for with offices at 601 N. Fern Creek Avenue Suite 220 Orlando Florida. I have the pleasure of representing (Unknown name) investment. We did and I wanted to address the Matlock question. Because we when we heard concerned stress by both staff and others, we went to the source. The model that is used to evaluate the impact is called the POMS model. And that model was developed by Doctor Surinam who prefers to be called Devo who is well known throughout the state of Florida. He developed the PO NS model. And it turned out the application of this model by both consultants was in error. And he explained that, he did soil tests and came out with what the impact would be if any on the wetlands and Mr (Unknown name) is here today and you all have been provided with a PowerPoint and I would be happy if you requested to bring him up so there is absolutely no concern. He was not involved until the later stages of this and that is why this new information came. It was in response to questions and concerns by staff. And I would briefly like to address also the concerns that have been referenced regarding incursions into the wetland. It was not a willful incursion, it was an operator error. We immediately went to the water management District, the water management district by the way has issued us a permit to excavate within, to within 50 feet of the wetlands. We are not doing that, because of the code that Volusia County has. But they have also issued a permit for us to correct the incursion that occurred to the extent it goes into the wetlands. We have monitored the water table for the last four years. And also included in the presentation, that each of you has, are the results of the monitoring. And the monitoring shows there is absolutely no drawdown. What was mentioned was the new code regulations if you are applying for a permit today. They do require 250 feet which is a change but even under the new code provisions, and applicant can come in and demonstrate that there will be no drawdown and still get today what we are applying for to within 75 feet of the wetlands. So, this is not something that if we were an applicant today coming in and asking for this exemption, we wouldn't be entitled to, we would have to demonstrate that we are not either temporarily or permanently impacting the water table. But we believe we have demonstrated that. We are appreciative of staff for working with us and on behalf of my client, I consent to the conditions that staff has referenced. If this is approved by this counsel. I would be happy to answer any questions or call Mr (Unknown name) if you want to hear from him. JEFFREY S BROWER: David Santiago. DAVID SANTIAGO: For me, staff acknowledged the individual that you mention, Mr DeVoe and staff acknowledged the report when it was submitted and the comments I received from staff was that he is very well respected in the community and what he does. I think he is a good expert that gave us information that staff needed to correct the reports. Thank you Mr capture. JEFFREY S BROWER: Anyone else for questions? Thank you for coming, any other comments? I thought you were getting ready to press your... Just a brief comment from me. This was kind of an unusual hearing in that usually we are told by staff, you can't consider new information. Now we have new information. It is not lost to me what Jake said. What if we had taken the vote two meetings ago when it came? What I haven't heard and what really concerns me is that the PLDRC was not in favor of this. They asked us to deny it and staff members in the field told us that they witnessed drawdown. Monitoring equipment may say something different but I can't just forget the eyes on the ground that saw this. I think this is one of the issues with the borrow pits and the reason why counsel last year or two years ago voted to increase a buffer zone. One of the speakers said and I read in the background information that it requires 250 feet to sustain just 50% of the wildlife population. So we have to ask ourselves are we appear to make decisions for the animals or people? I think we have to do both. I think that we have to be and I am certainly not insinuating no matter how anybody appear votes that they are not, but we have to take stewardship of our county seriously because it does effect the quality of life of every person that lives here. The wildlife that we still have available. The open spaces. I think this is indicative of some of the challenges that we have with our current development pattern. So, I am struggling with this one. I would, I think we need to stick with the 250 feet buffer. This project has been grandfathered in with much less and I understand that. But county attorney, did you... OK. You withdrew. Alright. Any other... Clay? CLAY ERVIN: Ginger identified that what was identified by staff at the regulation commission wasn't pertaining to the groundwater level, it was pertaining to the intrusion into the wetlands identified for protection. It was not pertaining to the groundwater but the fact that as Mr Christy pointed out an operator had gone beyond where they were supposed to and incurred damage to wetlands. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK, thank you. Alright, Karissa would you call the roll? KARISSA GREEN: (Rollcall) JEFFREY S BROWER: I will be a no. But the motion passes exception passes 6 to 1. Item 6 is an appeal of order of condemnation by the licensing and construction appeal board. Go ahead. SPEAKER: Good afternoon counsel, my name is Chris Ryans, is the chairman to this is an appeal from this ELCA case 23– 11– 002 by the owner Ms Nina Levine. I will give you a brief overview of ground rules before counting the county, what you're being asked is there competent substantial evidence presented to the CL CA or the contractor licensing and construction appeal board for 415 S. one a in the area known as Wilbur by the sea, no new evidence may be be considered at this hearing and you are limited to what was presented at this CLCA at the December 26 hearing. This is all been provided in your packet, and we will be reviewing the presentation with hearing of the PowerPoint, you additionally have the meditate transcript here, competent substantial evidence is defined as a reasonable mind would accept the conclusion including photograph, reports, testimonials of similar evidence which would support such a decision. It takes the vote of four members to grant appeal. If you think evidence you see today was enough to support the CLCA's decision you should vote to deny the appeal however if you believe the evidence was insufficient to support the decision you two choices you may grant the appeal and overturn this CLCA decision or choose to modify their decision as you see appropriate such as granting of additional time, we ask that extension be not be granted at this point the January date has already been extended by three months and hurricane season will start. This allows what's – what's known as repairs after accommodation, essentially there's a 30 day grace period in which the applicant may present an application for a permit to prepare a condemned building or structure. In the words of the code, if the chief building official reasonably believes the repairs are feasible and reasonably expected to resolve the conditions, he may grant the permits necessary to allow repair and demolition will be state. African filed her notice of appeal timely on December 15, 2023. At the time of her appeal, the 30 days shot clock was frozen as to that deadline. After today should counsel choose to deny her appeal she still has a remaining 21 days to bring permit applications to the building department for evaluation. With counsel's approval level, witness. If you come up. I will share these with you. Please state your name for the record. SPEAKER: Carrie Losinger. SPEAKER: What is your position of the county? SPEAKER: Building code administration building Director. SPEAKER: What is your employment history in the realm of building safety? SPEAKER: I worked in construction industry one way or another for 45 years, first in my career was electrician going to apprenticeship program, I was a contractor for a few years, then I went to the building code enforcement, spent a few years as electric inspector, in the city of Port Orange I was there for 15 years the last date of those years I was chief building official. And was hired here in October 2016 as chief building officer. SPEAKER: If I can interrupt real quick, Karissa would you mind swearing in our witnesses? KARISSA GREEN: Carrie, can you please raise your right hand? SPEAKER: Not just Carrie, anyone else who wishes to speak today. KARISSA GREEN: Please raise your hand. JEFFREY S BROWER: Do we have anybody here – KARISSA GREEN: To provide testimony for item 6? SPEAKER: (away from mic) SPEAKER: You were told you can present new evidence. SPEAKER: Correct. SPEAKER: That is accurate. SPEAKER: We weren't told (away from mic) testifying today (away from mic). JEFFREY S BROWER: Mister County attorney? County attorney, Chris, either one, how do we resolve this? As always, quasijudicial hearing, he told them no new information – SPEAKER: No new information, no new evidence. JEFFREY S BROWER: But they are certainly able to speak? SPEAKER: Correct. JEFFREY S BROWER: You didn't disqualify them from that. If you are going to choose to speak raise your right handed you to be sworn in and you can still speak you just can't enter new information. SPEAKER: Exactly, thank you. SPEAKER: (away from mic). SPEAKER: I was going to say if the landowner chose to speak, she would have to. Sorry, Karissa, you can continue. JEFFREY S BROWER: Raise your hand if you intend to speak at the microphone. KARISSA GREEN: Used where the testimony you are about to give in this matter is the truth, whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you got? SPEAKER: You also swear the tasks you've given so far is correct? Alright so as Chief building official what authority do you have? SPEAKER: My authority, my responsibility, is to enforce Florida building code. SPEAKER: And you make determinations as to safety issues connect SPEAKER: Not only can I, I am required to, that as part of my job. SPEAKER: Where does that authority come from? SPEAKER: The Florida building code in Florida statute 5123. SPEAKER: Are you now or have you ever been involved in a building or trades board estate? SPEAKER: I have, served two years in the early 90s at the city of Port Orange grade school was appointed by Governor Scott in 2017 to building code administrators and inspectors board and served on that skateboard for 40 years and is currently on the board for the Association of floater. SPEAKER: have you been to the 4105 S. Atlantic Avenue in the location known as Whova by the sea? SPEAKER: I have. SPEAKER: Carrie, go ahead and describe what you see in the photos. SPEAKER: This is kind of a general area map. The red outline is the actual address of the property. These are notice of determinations by me, that were sent to the property owner and they were posted on site as well. SPEAKER: And this? SPEAKER: An affidavit by Paul Trader, notice of determination on site. As the photo of the posting on the property. We return receipt and it appears Ms Lavinga did sign that. This is a notice of public hearing, and this is the notice of public hearing, the affidavit that was posted on site. Same thing, there is the photo of the notice of public hearing, and the mailing that was sent to the property owner. So this starts with the storms in October November 2022, Ian and Nicole. This is a report from November 11 when we were at the property. We recognize that there was structural damage, we identify the properties destroyed, and it is unsafe. Structure was not habitable. Half of the house was missing basically after the storms. Power needs to remain off and permits be required. These are photos from that day. SPEAKER: And what do you see in them? SPEAKER: The back half of the home was basically-- the erosion caused it to collapse onto the beach along with the swimming pool. These are photos from September 8 of 2023. And you will see actually a better photo from the beach, no change since the prior November. These photos, same thing. Same photo, November 9, 2023, a year after the storm. No change. SPEAKER: And would you say these pictures were inaccurate depiction of the property on or about the summer 26, the date of the CLCR hearing? SPEAKER: Yes. SPEAKER: Is any evidence that would've changed your hearing? Presented by the applicant SPEAKER: No. SPEAKER: Was there any evidence present by the applicant at all? SPEAKER: Evidence, no. SPEAKER: Can you note structural issues that you've seen? SPEAKER: They were, I think the photos tell the story. SPEAKER: You believe they pose a life safety issue to arguments or passersby? SPEAKER: I do. SPEAKER: Where you directed to give the owners of 4105 S. Atlantic Avenue chance to edit the property before presenting? SPEAKER: We were, after the storms in 2022 was to take our time, we knew they were going to have to do with the insurance companies and those types of things. By the time we got to August, September, of 23 we began to receive complaints from the neighbors. I believe Mr Reinhart received a complaint, I communicated with him about that back at that time. So after year we felt like we needed to go ahead and take action and get these properties cleaned up. SPEAKER: Into the property owner apply for any such permits prior to the December 6 hearing? SPEAKER: No. SPEAKER: Was there post hurricane safety report made in November 22 and if so what did it say? SPEAKER: there was any was on the slideshow here,. SPEAKER: When a property is condemned, it doesn't mean devilish is guaranteed, does it? SPEAKER: Not necessarily if the property owner think they can make repairs or wants to demolish it themselves, we will work with them to see that happen. SPEAKER: Should counsel to neither appeal today they still have 21 days to do so, were they not? SPEAKER: Correct. SPEAKER: Is the applicant present at the hearing? SPEAKER: Yes she was. SPEAKER: Was she with the representative that she is with today? SPEAKER: Andrew Hall spoke on their behalf. SPEAKER: What advice did he have? SPEAKER: He indicated that they were work with the property owner to apply for permits of demolition. They were going to look at – SPEAKER: This is a quasijudicial appeal. JEFFREY S BROWER: You will have an opportunity to speak. SPEAKER: They were also going to see if the remainder piece of the property could be salvaged in any way the other thing they indicated as they were going to get the debris removed off the beach and going to do that pretty quickly. SPEAKER: When discussing resolution of condemnation did they object to it? SPEAKER: Not to my knowledge. SPEAKER: To the contractor say that he had no from what the timeline presented with the CLCA with a January 6 them listen? SPEAKER: He said he had no problem with it all. SPEAKER: I have no further questions. SPEAKER: OK. JEFFREY S BROWER: Before we go any further, this is a quasijudicial hearing, I'm going to ask if anyone has any ex parte they need to declare? SPEAKER: I do, I spoke with the person involved, owner of the property, as well as building officials. SPEAKER: Chairman, I do not. JEFFREY S BROWER: I have not either, although I have seen the property. Long before I knew this was coming out, I was surveying the damage on the beach. SPEAKER: I have seen the property many times. JEFFREY S BROWER: Mr Robbins, any ex parte? DANNY ROBINS: No. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK, does anyone have any questions for staff so far before I call the applicant? OK. Would you like to come and...? SPEAKER: (away from mic) JEFFREY S BROWER: Yes, you may. SPEAKER: I want to raise it. Thank you. Mr Losinger-- JEFFREY S BROWER: Can you introduce yourself? SPEAKER: Yes, Lisa Macy, presenting on the case of Ms Nina Lovinga. The homeowner. Do you recall having a telephone conversation with Ms Lovinga, also with Matt Frazier, Fox News, where and you told Mrs Lavinia and Matt Frazier that her property was not in jeopardy and she could have all the time she needed to make repairs? SPEAKER: I recall speaking to the property owner. At least once, maybe twice. I don't recall speaking to a news reporter. About it. I told her we were giving them time, just as actually to counsel in our direction after the storms was to give the probably owners time to work through the process. And I did tell her that as long as she was making forward progress, either to demolish or rebuild, – SPEAKER: You are aware she intended to repair the property, correct? SPEAKER: about she indicated she was going to try. SPEAKER: And you were where the contractor she was working with had an initial damage report where the fort said the damage was not in excess of the damage report? SPEAKER: I don't recall it that way. SPEAKER: What do you recall? SPEAKER: I believe if something were submitted but it wasn't complete. SPEAKER: Submit a by general contractor, correct? In your office stated that damage was not in excess of substantial damage and could be repaired? Isn't that correct? SPEAKER: Apparently not, no. SPEAKER: You are aware that any contact, emails about the general contractor was hired and also about the engineer that she hired? I am sorry? SPEAKER: What was the question?? Before you decided to move forward with the condemnation, I had been sending information about the general contractor that was hired and also the engineer that was hired. Is that correct? SPEAKER: I believe so. SPEAKER: Although she was making progress, he decided to move forward with the condemnation. Correct? SPEAKER: Progress would be applying for a building permit either for demolition or renovation. We have not seen that. SPEAKER: Are you aware that Ms. (Name) was told she hired a contractor and they applied for a temporary permit and were denied by your office? SPEAKER: No application was received as of today. SPEAKER: If they say they applied and were denied, that is not true? SPEAKER: That is not true. SPEAKER: Are you aware the photos you just showed and not indicative of what the property looks like now, is it? SPEAKER: It is not, there was some cleanup on the beach. SPEAKER: Are you aware that Mrs. (Name) has been well into $50,000 on repairs to her home? SPEAKER: I had no idea how much she had spent. SPEAKER: To have any idea how much it would cost to take the debris off the beach? SPEAKER: No. SPEAKER: You have no idea what demolition cost or debris? SPEAKER: No. SPEAKER: And she had been told repeatedly with the contractor who appeared at the hearing that a demolition permit was required to remove the debris from the beach, that turned out to be false when it was actually done. SPEAKER: That is not what was stated. They were talking about applying for demolition permit to remove the house. We received a demolition permit application and we told them it was not necessary if all they were doing was removing the debris on the beach, building permit was not required so that permit application was canceled. SPEAKER: And that is why the demolition permit was submitted. At no time did she ever agree to demolish her house, she agreed to clean up the beach because she was told because of the request from your office. That demolition cost a substantial amount of money that she spent so far, $50,000. SPEAKER: OK. SPEAKER: Pause for a second, point of order. Question for staff, since this is an appeal and I understand the appeals process and it was explained that no new testimony, there is a lot that is being given to us here as arbitrators of this issue. How are we going to keep up with all of that may or may not be new testimony? If it is going this way and I will let you answer. Maybe Mr. chair, we should have an objection.? This is new testimony? I am just throwing this out, there was a lot that was thrown out. SPEAKER: I was going to say at the end, so far but I have heard everything was either after-the-fact or new evidence that was not so so far all of this back-and-forth will be disregarded for counsel. DAVID SANTIAGO: Thank you. Because procedurally we can only hear previous testimony or evidence, correct? SPEAKER: Exactly. Only something discussed before this CLCA can be part of this testimony. DAVID SANTIAGO: I want make sure that is clear because we do not want to take away anyone's right to speak but procedurally we are required to do it this way? SPEAKER: Yes sir. SPEAKER: Councilman Robins? DANNY ROBINS: Do you have any information we can legally use? SPEAKER: To have information you can use? DANNY ROBINS: Legally used to take into consideration. SPEAKER: First of all, the standard evidence is not the standard care. This was an appeal of due process, we were never able to cross-examine Mr. (Name) at the original hearing. To this day, it was presented evidence that we have never seen. DANNY ROBINS: I understand that, simply as or no question would be more than sufficient. Is there any usable information that we can use here today that is not new? SPEAKER: Absolutely. He was just allowed to testify and I should be allowed to cross-examine him. DANNY ROBINS: Ma'am, we are following the rules so please respect that. I would just like to hear the information we are allowed to hear. I look forward to hearing it. Thank you. SPEAKER: I have a question for the board and the assistant County, if no new evidence is to be presented, why was Mr. (Name) testimony already reiterated today when it was already in the transcript? SPEAKER: So it was able to be heard before the board? SPEAKER: The board had reviewed the transcript. SPEAKER: And it was a reiteration. SPEAKER: So you told me I was allowed to cross-examine him today. SPEAKER: As to the evidence it was on the record. SPEAKER: That is what I am questioning him on. That is what I would like to question him on. JEFFREY S BROWER: I am going to ask that you keep orator, you really don't help your case by speaking from the back of the room. So let's handle this in an organized fashion. And Chris, from now on, I think and this is not a criticism. I think we are used to wear Paolo jumps up and out of his chair all the time at quasijudicial hearings and says, "I'm here that's." SPEAKER: Fair enough, I will do that as well. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. SPEAKER: If I could, the code revision we are under is 5859 and it requires a repeal of any decision from the CLCA should be based on evidence made to the record before it. As I understand, staff's position on this is as long as any questions or cross-examination is consistent with the information presented to the CLCA, it can be exploited today. JEFFREY S BROWER: Exactly. SPEAKER: OK. SPEAKER: Can I continue? SPEAKER: Yes. SPEAKER: I don't know if I miss earlier, but did he testify that she spoke to him about the property? SPEAKER: No, I mentioned that Councilman Reinhart had contacted me. SPEAKER: You can, this is something not presented in front of the CLCA so cannot be explained at this time. SPEAKER: OK, why was it – if it was not allowed to be presented before, then I moved to strike all of his testimony today. If he was allowed to testify as to evidence that could be testified previously, including... SPEAKER: I should ask, was that an argument or objection you made at the CLCA hearing? SPEAKER: We were not, he was never called to testify. The way it appeared at the hearing was that the board members were speaking to each other. At no time was announced that they were calling a witness. To us it looked like the board members were speaking to each other when they were saying no, have this package, it is in our package and bantered back and forth. We were never aware that they said calling Mr. (Name) as a witness and it turned out to be the counties only witness. How can we cross-examine when we were denied due process? SPEAKER: Mr. Ryan, do you have response? SPEAKER: I do, yes. He actually gave the entire presentation and is exactly what we saw tonight. He stood up there and set all the same things. And again, as mentioned, I am reiterating. This is the same exact evidence. SPEAKER: So he gave us a summary? SPEAKER: Yes. SPEAKER: Can I ask you a quick question? SPEAKER: You and then Don, go ahead. SPEAKER: In the transcript, the county official, is that caring? SPEAKER: That is scary, yes. JAKE JOHANSSON: Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Don, did you have a question? DON DEMPSEY: I have a question overall and I must say, I agree with her, once you when you open the door with due procedure, I don't understand why we are here at this point. We just... SPEAKER: Mr. Dempsey, if I can make sure I understand what you're saying, what door are you referring to? DON DEMPSEY: The county attorney, they asked Carrie all the questions on record. It is fair game. It is almost like trying things by consent, even if it is not pled, you bring it up to win your case, if it is not objected to or whatever, it is tried by consent and open the door. SPEAKER: All that that was restated was consistent with the record below, unless the property owner can say otherwise. You know, just to be clear, we are here in a quasijudicial setting. The rules of evidence apply to courts don't apply here, it is little more casual and just what we are dealing with. DON DEMPSEY: We just passed transformer 386, we just kicked in $200 million back in December, was it? To help people like this lady. And we have shut her down a month prior to us To help people like her whose homes were devastated by Ian. So I would like, if it is possible, to table this and see if this lady is available to the benefits of 386. I think it is undisputed, her house was destroyed by Ian, we kicked in a total of $200 million with everything allocated to it for Ian relief, we are trying to help everyone else in the county and we are trying to shut her down and she is a victim of hurricane in just like these other people? I would like to continue this and direct staff to see if she is available to any of the benefits of transform 386 and see where that goes and then resume these proceedings. SPEAKER: For the record, she is an 85-year-old disabled widow. JEFFREY S BROWER: Chris, this may be new evidence, I don't know. You will have to tell me. You know if she has applied to transformer 386? SPEAKER: That would be new evidence and no I do not. DON DEMPSEY: That is why I want an ombudsman to help little old ladies like her through the system. Jeffrey Mike I agree, this is a very – SPEAKER: We have asked the county fair assistance from the beginning and been given none or information, we have been given none. JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman Johansson? JAKE JOHANSSON: I have plenty of comments about 386 and other programs. But it does not sound like it is part of what we are doing now other than coming up with a reason to postpone. So let's continue on and if postpone is what happens, so be it. But I don't want – SPEAKER: (Indiscernible) JAKE JOHANSSON: Mr. Chairman, I would just love at second to finish this sentence, ma'am. I would like to proceed with the circumstance of the quasijudicial and come to a decision. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: This is a very sensitive issue and everyone here is aware of that. We have an 85-year-old woman at the back of the room who is waiting to hear. We have evidence to away. We just need to do it in an orderly way and it does not mean we are ignoring her conditions. Mr. Dempsey can make a motion to postpone it, and we will see what the Council does with that. But before you continue, George Recktenwald, did you have a... SPEAKER: I would like to wait until we go through the procedure and then I will try to do some information regarding this 386 and where it stands. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. Did you have to ask something before we go on? DAVID SANTIAGO: Your idea, Don, your suggestion open my eyes but not specific to the procedure here. We need to figure how we deal with that and the motion. I guess preemptively, to staff, procedurally went to a temporary postponement, is that something that can apply here? SPEAKER: We can continue at a later date, yes. DAVID SANTIAGO: I moved to temporarily postpone this hearing for a period of two months, to get more information for the Council and give him the applicants time to apply. SPEAKER: Would you like to specify to the second meeting in June? DAVID SANTIAGO: Perfect, second meeting in June. DON DEMPSEY: Can we amend that to direct staff to assist her and see if she is eligible for any benefits from transformer 386? SPEAKER: I think staff will do that organically anyway. SPEAKER: Can I weigh in now? JEFFREY S BROWER: Yes, we still have more people to talk to but yes, go ahead. SPEAKER: Timing is important here because of the fact that we are going into hurricane season. That is, in fact, the danger identified by the staff. We have issues of keeping the beach clean. We have the issue of neighbors nearby, and a pile of rubble in the middle. That is why we are here today. We have been working with this person or month. Even depending on the outcome today, they would still have time to remedy the situation. I will try to make sure, because this is a different twist, and I do not have the people right here. But I will try to get the people here, as far as 386. They can talk to this person before they leave. But I will caution, most of 386 is to go into the CDB (?) areas of the county, I do not have the HUD rules in front of me. Basically, it was meant for that. Now, she may qualify based on may be being… Having a lot of assets, but maybe not having much income. So we can look at that. But I am just saying, the blanket statement about 386, yes, for the correct economic area, that would be correct. But again, I do not know the specifics. I do not believe it is a CDBG (?) area. DAVID SANTIAGO: If I may comment, chair. By the nature of us speaking about it, I know staff will try to figure it out. To see if she does qualify, she should engage that. 386 will not be the civil will, because that is limited on the amount of money, even if she does qualify. I will leave the motion as it sits. I hope the applicant can, may be the applicant can address this. Can continue to at least do the demo side of things, or figure something out to make it safer. SPEAKER: May I respond? JEFFREY BROWER: Yes you may. Before you do, who made the second? OK, go ahead and respond please. SPEAKER: As to the safety issue, the beach area has been cleaned up, and the house has been shored up and closed in. As it stands, today. A substantial cost. About $50,000, Mrs Lavinia has spent to do that. JEFFREY BROWER: OK. JAKE JOHANSSON: Mr. Chairman, is it outside quasi judicial at this point? We are still in quasi judicial (Multiple speakers) CHRIS RYAN: This is more information that cannot be used for the decision. JAKE JOHANSSON: Can we vote? Somehow, to stop the quasi judicial, and then have this conversation everybody wants to have? SPEAKER: The motion is to table it until the second meeting in June. And it has been seconded. JEFFREY BROWER: That is the motion on the floor, with a second. What we were asked to do, was to either uphold the appeal, denied the appeal… We could uphold the order of condemnation with conditions, giving her more time… Two months, or whatever it is. I know you still want to respond, but… Is this new evidence for us, to ask Mr Losinger if anyone has inspected that? And is it anymore safe today, because… That is what we have to wait. We want to be compassionate to the woman, but we also have the public safety to keep in mind. Is it dangerous to everybody else on the beach? What I saw… Leaves a question. CHRIS RYAN: Unfortunately chair, for purposes of an appeal such as this, we are limited to that time in which… JEFFREY BROWER: OK. OK. Jake, I do not have an answer to your question. Can we back out of this and just go into you know… Attorneys, you will have to give us some direction. SPEAKER: Mr. Chairman, I think the answer is on the call that the question that is before us. If that passes, it is postponed, and we are done until the second meeting in June. If it passes. SPEAKER: I think staff, or (Indiscernible) can respond to questions you have outside of that. Right now the difficult is you have a motion on the floor. JEFFREY BROWER: Before I call for a vote, we have someone from the public who wants to speak. And you, I think you still have something you wanted to say. Go ahead. SPEAKER: We are here on denial of due process. Based on what happened at the last hearing. My name is Lisa Macy, I am presenting Mrs. Nina Lavinia, an 85-year-old is able to come a and grandmother to sick spreadsheet resides at 4105 S. Atlantic Avenue. This was her home for almost 40 years. SPEAKER: Mr. Chair… You have a motion on the floor to continue it. So, I think counsel needs to act on that. And the property owner can say whether she agrees or disagrees. Because if that passes, you will be having this same discussion two months from now. JEFFREY BROWER: OK. Then… Nathan skip? Scott? SPEAKER: JEFFREY BROWER: Tell us where you are from so we know… SPEAKER: Yes. Good evening, Mr. Chair, commissioners, Nathan Scott, former public service commission or attorney of the JD MBA and engineering degree. I am just a concerned citizen. Having watched this proceeding. SPEAKER: Mr. Chairman, I cannot see him in… SPEAKER: I filled out a speaking request. JEFFREY BROWER: He is from the public, wanting to speak. JAKE JOHANSSON: Was a judicial, is this (Indiscernible) CHRIS RYAN: I have previously told Mr. Scott any new information he has cannot be presented today. JAKE JOHANSSON: Was he at the CLCA? SPEAKER: He was not. SPEAKER: At this point if he wants to speak on the motion, he can speak on the motion before the Council. Otherwise we are proceeding with the hearing. SPEAKER: Thank you. Again, I am trying not to testify, I am just peeking as to the motion. Holistically, I think emotions have run high in this. Just from observing the room. I think Commissioner Dempsey has it correct. That holistically should take a step back and look at this. What you have here, holistically is an elderly homeowner who has experienced a catastrophic loss of property. They are trying to comply, they have run into some hurdles, permit, hired an engineer who is holding them hostage, allegedly. He saw some dramatic photos. I think those photos, holistically, are not indicative of the condition. There has been cleanup. As an engineer myself who has billed submarines, airplanes, a reactor, I have some structural experience. SPEAKER: I think he is going outside the realm… SPEAKER: I am speaking to the motion. SPEAKER: I have not heard any comments to the motion… SPEAKER: Nuclear some Marine building has nothing to do that with this Mr. Chair SPEAKER: Mr. Chair, why is this port hostile to someone who has never appeared before this board before? A SPEAKER: Mr. Chair, at do not understand where the notion of hostile is coming from. You have a motion to delay for two months, that is not hostile. Unless you have any comments to the motion to continue, I suggest you sit down. SPEAKER: wow… That is reprehensible. I am a civilian here, in good faith I came here to speak to this motion. I think that is blatantly disrespectful. SPEAKER: You have not mentioned the motion in one word you have said. SPEAKER: I have come a before I was rudely drafted by a couple of panel members, and the attorney, I cannot get a word in edge wise. I am trying to come in in good faith, I commend what Commissioner Adams he said, and God bless you. JEFFREY BROWER: So your comment is to support the motion? SPEAKER: To support the motion, but I am trying to tell you the reason why, sir. Some of the things you have so, conditions have changed. Emotions are high. I am not trying to get into new evidence, I think you have the people intend to work with the county in good faith. And they just need time. I think that is where Commissioner Dempsey's suggestion here, seconded by I believe Commissioner Santiago is best practice. I have heard you all try to work together collectively, and have policy direction from so, I think it can be worked out. You have the health of your citizens, that is the biggest concern. I am disappointed because, watching this today as Volusia County used to be all about senior citizens. Thank you. JEFFREY BROWER: Thank you. OK. I do not see anybody else with a comment. So let's call the vote and see where we are. The motion on the floor is to table this until the second meeting of June. Postpone it to the second meeting of June. Motion was made by David Santiago, seconded by Matt Reinhart. Karissa, would you call the role? KARISSA GREEN: Mr Johansson? Mr Kent? Mr Reinhart? Is to Robbins? Mr Santiago? Mr Dempsey? Mr Brower? JEFFREY BROWER: Yes. So the… Motion passes unanimously, it will be postponed for two months. And… We will take it up again then. SPEAKER: Thank you. Can I have the date of that meeting? JEFFREY BROWER: What is the second meeting in June? Does anybody have that? SPEAKER: June 18. That would be a 4 PM meeting. JEFFREY BROWER: Alright. Thank you. SPEAKER: (Away from microphone) is there anyone in particular we should contact? JEFFREY BROWER: Staff is already doing that. Yes. SPEAKER: (Away from microphone) JEFFREY BROWER: OK. It is 6:27 PM, why don't we take a break until 7:00 PM. We will come back and wrap up. (BREAK) (Music plays) SPEAKER: Welcome to the Volusia County Council meeting. The meeting will begin in 10 minutes. (Music plays) SPEAKER: Welcome to the Volusia County Council meeting. The meeting will begin in five minutes. (Music plays) SPEAKER: Welcome to the Volusia County Council meeting. The meeting will begin in two minutes. (Music plays) SPEAKER: OK, 60 seconds! OK! It is 7 o'clock. We will continue, we are on item 7. Ordinance amending the zoning ordinance to establish the change of business certificate. Clay Ervin, would you take us into this? CLAY ERVIN: Yes sir, the County Counsel identified a need to make things more efficient and effective for business entities so they eliminated the business tax receipt. Part of that process identify the need to come back with alternatives so there can be a method to clear zoning issues and welding code, fire code and impact fee issues. This is the alternative requirement for people establishing a new business or expanding a business. No fee will be charged, it will basically be staff conducting the work. And really, again, it is just verifying if you are establishing a new business that you are in accordance with the zoning and is a one-time situation. If you come in and establish your business now and stay for 10 years, you only need to do it the first time. It is a follow-up of what was identified with the elimination of the business tax receipt. If there are any questions, I would like to answer. JEFFREY S BROWER: Questions from counsel? David Santiago. DAVID SANTIAGO: No fee to the applicant, correct? SPEAKER: Correct. DAVID SANTIAGO: Motion to approve. JEFFREY S BROWER: Motion to approve by David Santiago and second by Troy Kent. Any other questions? JAKE JOHANSSON: How are we going to, how are you going to let me know that I need to send my certificate? CLAY ERVIN: It would be through the typical due diligence request and we have available on the website and will start educating, send out education information to realtors and property owners. Chambers of commerce and whatnot. JAKE JOHANSSON: And it is one time, so we don't have to do it? OK, as I have. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Any other comments or debate? Motion on the floor is to approve. The ordinance amending the zoning ordinance to establish a change of business certificate. All in favor say aye. Any opposed? Motion carries 7-0. That brings us to item 8, adoption hearing for ordinance 2024 – 10 to repeal chapters 78 – one, waiting. And records check for purchase of firearms. SPEAKER: County Counsel, at the March 24 meeting, staff brought forth an ordinance that will for the purchase of firearms with Volusia County firearms for discussion and direction. County Counsel decided to vote with such an ordinance. This section pertains to sale and delivery of handguns, any of which transactions conducted on property towards public has a right to access and requires a three day waiting period between sale and delivery as well as criminal background check. This does not impact the background requirement checks on those under federal statutes. I would like to address the recently finalized federal rulemaking requirements. On April 11, the federal government specifically the DOJ and Bureau of alcohol, tobacco, firearms and explosives because what is called the gun show loophole. After publishing of federal registry, this was the final part of the 2022 safer communities act. This closure is both more inclusive and exclusive than what the county currently contemplates. The county is seeking to allow all sales on property to which the general public has access by persons who are not licensed by federal state government as firearms retailers without requiring the currently mandated three day waiting period and background check. The federal rulemaking seeks to end five contracts and licenses for anyone who chooses to sell firearms, predominantly for profit. This includes online, by mail, at flea markets and gun shows. Exemptions are provided for people choosing to purchase guns for hobby, collecting, study or for hunting/target shooting. In recap, what the county is seeking to do today is remove the requirement for background check and three day waiting period on places within the county accessible to general public, applicable only to sellers not licensed by the state or federal government for retail sign of handguns. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. Question, Councilman Danny Robins? DANNY ROBINS: I make a motion to accept the repeal of ordinance 78 – one. A motion to approve the ordinance by Councilman, to remove – yes. Was there a second? SPEAKER: I will second. JEFFREY S BROWER: Second by David Santiago. Questions for staff? Debate? We do have members of the public who want to speak, Dana McCool, you are first. SPEAKER: Mr. Chair and council, to say that I am disappointed is a real big understatement of this. In essence what this counsel is going to be saying is that you know better than federal authorities and experts. Although you might fancy guns, I don't consider anybody sitting out here in actual expert, at least I have not heard testimony to that to the contrary. This loophole is being closed for a reason. The experts have spoken. And I don't want our counsel appeared to basically be saying that you are pushing through something that makes it easier for someone with some type of instability to purchase a gun. Three day waiting period is not infringing on anyone's right to own a gun. What it is doing is allowing the most vulnerable people who would be allowed through the back door to purchase a gun for unstable reasons to cool off here. 30 days, guys. If you go through with this vote in the affirmative to repeal this, you're telling the public out here that you know better than what is now going to be mandated. This loophole is being closed for a reason. This is encouraging people to hurry up, run out and go get him down. You know? The argument has been made that if a woman feels threatened and she needs to go purchase a gun, this would take away her right to go by again in a domestic violence situation. I would offer back to you this, if a woman is going out and buying a gun at the turn of the coin like this, the odds of this kind being turned around and used on her are very high, without proper training. This argument does not hold water, not infringing on anyone's rights here. I don't want anyone to use this as a political pedestal, this is about protecting. This is about public safety. And when polled, I will tell you this. I am a Second Amendment proponent. However I believe we need safety and place here. When polled I ask conservative male and female who call themselves Republicans regarding this waiting. And this was the most sad thing to me. "This is political suicide if I vote contrary to what is being presented because it is deemed as a partisan issue and it is not." This is about our people, this is about the safety of our people. Our most vulnerable. I don't know anyone who cannot have delayed gratification other than two year-olds and those who do not have good reasoning. I am asking you to follow the letter of the federal law because there is a good reason, bipartisan reason. A bipartisan committee closed this loophole. You can be a fan of the gun while still protecting us, that is what I'm asking you to do. JEFFREY S BROWER: Tim Hoover? SPEAKER: Tim Hoover, I live in a quiet place in the country. For 25 years as a public servant in the firefighter department. We have seen all of these shootings and disabled people and just a lot of crazy people out there. You make it easier for someone who is unstable to go purchase a down because they don't need background checks or FBI fingerprints or anything. The sole weapons permit and the training I had, my wife and daughter went through it and I recommend it to anybody who owns a gun or if you don't carry a concealed weapons permit. Get the training, get the safety of it. To go in there and buy a gun and walk out with it and not even know how to load it or how to handle it, leave it around for some small kid to get it, I think the three day waiting period is ideal. I also think there should be some kind of training for you to purchase a gun. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Jon Nicholson? SPEAKER: Jon Nicholson, Daytona Beach side. I was offered about a dozen guns when I was a kid. My uncle had passed away and his children did not want the guns and I was offered it and I chose not to. A friend of mine, my mother's best friend, got in an argument with his wife – which happens. But he was a bit unstable. So he left the house, went to a gun store, bought a gun, came home and killed his wife and his mother-in-law. That is stuck in my mind. Whenever that's pops up, there are arguments. You sit there and say well, not everybody does it. But it happens and enough times to warrant looking at it. The loophole needed to be closed 10/20 years ago. It should never have been allowed to go on as long as it did. This closes it and you're going to open it back up. I ask you to be very cautious about why you think they did what they did, what existed. Guns are going to be hopefully with us forever. Right? I have no problem with guns, I have no problem with who owns guns. But there are instances in which it can be abused. Don't add to it. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. And that is all we had from the public so I will close the public hearing on this. Councilman Johansson? JAKE JOHANSSON: As I understand it, anybody can go to any friend and purchase a weapon without any waiting period, is that correct? SPEAKER: That is correct, yes. JAKE JOHANSSON: How often do we hear of Volusia County having gun shows? SPEAKER: I believe it is nine a year. Seven or nine, I think it has gone back and forth based on a couple of things. JAKE JOHANSSON: So nine times a year, I can decide to act irresponsibly and go buy a gun at a gun show and do something about it. But the other 350, 345 days a year, I can go to any friend, relative or anybody, private citizen, and buy a weapon from them. SPEAKER: On private property, yes. JAKE JOHANSSON: So the difference is public property. SPEAKER: Correct. JAKE JOHANSSON: Can gun shops hold... Is there any way for a gunshop to somehow hold some type of event at a private property where firearms are sold on private property and not the shop owner? SPEAKER: That might depend on the license, a much exactly what you're asking. JAKE JOHANSSON: I wonder if a bunch of people can get together on a private residence and buy and sell guns to each other. SPEAKER: That should be OK, I believe so. JAKE JOHANSSON: And if you're invited, you can go. I am just trying to... I am trying to figure out why being in the public is different than being in the private as far as the argument that unstable people can buy weapons. I think they have access to weapons. I think they have friends who have weapons, probably. Probably. And as far as other people thinking they need a weapon, if those people are not mentally unstable, they usually wait the three days and get the weapon anyhow and have it after three days. They are not acting in a fit of rage. So, you know, a fit of rage on Saturday, "Hamlet, there is a gun show." That is probably far and few between. Speculatively. That is my thought process on this. I appreciate the time, thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman Santiago? DAVID SANTIAGO: I have a question. You explain, I think he went in to the recent federal changes that were made? SPEAKER: Yes sir. DAVID SANTIAGO: Can you go back, when I saw and heard you say about certain exemptions... SPEAKER: I will go one further and read the brief director from the White House as to how this applies. It prevents people from falsely claiming guns are part of a personal collection in an attempt to evade the law. The statute explicitly states that making occasional sales or liquidating collection does not require a federal firearms license or background check. However, people have invaded the background checks requirement by falsely claiming they are selling their personal collection. It makes clear that personal collection of firearms is collected for specific grades like study, comparison, exhibition or for hobby like hunting or sport shooting. Bona fide personal collection is not the same as business inventory. They are trying to require people who are selling guns primarily for profit to have a license whereas individuals like selling to somebody for hobby would still be exempt from this requirement. DAVID SANTIAGO: So I will repeat what I think I heard. SPEAKER: OK, I will do my best to clarify. DAVID SANTIAGO: So, someone could buy a bunch of guns and say that this is a hobby, about all these guns. 10/20 guns, whatever it may be. If I want to go to the fairgrounds to participate in the next gun show, and I am now selling my hobby guns, that loophole exists to circumvent whatever the feds just did? SPEAKER: I cannot speak to how regulation comes down as far as I but I believe it is possible, yes. DAVID SANTIAGO: It is possible, they are still going to be gaps in what they just passed. Thank you. JEFFREY BROWER: Councilman Robbins. DANNY ROBINS: This does nothing. This has more holes in it and Swiss cheese, it has more holes in it… It is a joke. I would not bring this up if I was the federal government. I stand by my motion. Thank you. JEFFREY BROWER: Any other comments or questions? If not, I will ask for the boat. The motion on the floor is to adopt the ordinance, which removes the three day wait and background check. All in favor say 'aye'. (Multiple speakers) JEFFREY BROWER: Any opposed? The ordinance is adopted, 7-0. Item 9. Ordinance 2024 – 007, truck parking. CLAY ERVIN: Good evening, Clay Ervin, director of growth and resource management. County Council identified a desire to change our parking standards to allow for within the agriculturally zoned properties, the ability for the owner of that unit, or the occupant, to be able to park larger vehicles. Such as semis, work vehicles, those types of things. And not face some of the restrictions that we currently have. Based on the direction that staff received, we have modified the ordinance. There is basically for critical things. It has to be utilized by the person who inhabits the home. It cannot be located at the front of the house, or within the front yard setback. And property owners are limited to a maximum of two commercial vehicles, and the minimum parcel size must be 2.5 acres. When forward to your PLDRC,a recommendation of approval from staff, and PLDRC. Any questions for staff, we will be glad to answer. JEFFREY BROWER: Cancel any questions? Can someone Robbins. DANNY ROBINS: Thank you chairman, Clay, thank you for the due diligence. A couple questions. Does this target or include the RR rural residential that has a one acre minimum? CLAY ERVIN: Yes, sir. DANNY ROBINS: 1 acre minimum? CLAY ERVIN: It allows it within the RR zone, but you would still have to meet the 2.5 acres. DANNY ROBINS: Does it can -- include nonconforming lots of any size? CLAY ERVIN: Coser. It would have to be 2.5 acres. DANNY ROBINS: Does this protect… How do I put this? Does 1 acre, the standard RR zoning classification, how would this affect the Thune Bache -- the Thune Beach, Ormond by the Sea, Jerusha Road, or any properties thereof in those areas (Indiscernible) CLAY ERVIN: The majority of the areas you identified are within urban areas, so they do not have rural zoning. The only areas I would be aware of is in the New Smyrna Beach South State Road 44. Right around and there, there are some rural residential… A3/A4 properties. DANNY ROBINS: Moving on. Agriculture… No matter the zoning classification, or the size, if it is used in conjunction with a bona fide agricultural operation, can those vehicles, no matter the number, be stored on any property as long as it is tied into the agricultural operation? CLAY ERVIN: Yes, sir. If you have approval through the property appraisal office as agricultural classification, and the equipment or vehicle is associated with that bona fide agricultural use, you are exempt from the zoning regulations. DANNY ROBINS: And lastly, just to conclude, so… You can have unlimited vehicles, as long as it is tied into the greenbelt or agricultural laws. This loan is your bona fide agriculture, but if you are not, then you cannot? CLAY ERVIN: Correct. DANNY ROBINS: OK, that is all I have got. JEFFREY BROWER: Councilman Johansson for questions? JAKE JOHANSSON: Yes, thank you Chairman. Because I do not live like this, but wants to. If I live on a 1 acre, 2 1/2 acre lot, and I have a driveway with a little area where I can park something other than a vehicle… In front of my house. Off to the side. Are you saying that, if I drive an 18 wheeler, that I cannot keep my tractor there? It has to be behind the house? The setback of the hoUSed CLAY ERVIN: That is the direction County Council gave us, yes. JAKE JOHANSSON: So… In my travels, looking for said property, I see plenty of folks who have things well out of the way, but in front of their home. And I… I apologize, but I thought this would be – allow people with a little more land, a little more freedom to park as they wish on their property. Alright, thanks. That's all I have. JEFFREY BROWER: Councilman Robbins. DANNY ROBINS: Before I make the motion, I will make additions to the motion, not on the current – with the current standards, but Mr Kent, I do not want to cut you off. TROY KENT: Thank you. I appreciate you asking the questions of Mr. Irvin, specifically about Ormond by the Sea, new Smyrna and things like that. I still stand where I stood on this months ago. I feel like once you lower those expectations, and you allow it, this opens up a Pandora's box of problems that I know I do not want to live next to. I know we were not all in agreement, but most of us I believe were, when we sent this back to staff. We said, I think the agreement was 2.5 acres. If you had 2.5 acres, and you know, we would change these rules. And, I just… Staff at that meeting presented us pictures of absolute nightmares, if I live next to that. I mean, it was like Sanford and son on steroids. Some of those pictures… Mr. Irvin, that you presented to us at that last meeting. We are talking about… All kinds of recreational vehicles, boats, company vehicles… You know… So, I appreciate, you know, all of your comments. And I of course am interested in what Mr Robbins has to say. But I do not know that I will be swayed to change my opinion on this. I do not think this makes Volusia County better. At the end of the day, when I walk away from this meeting tonight, I do not think, if I change this, I do not think it makes Volusia County better. I am OK with what is presented right now by staff. But if we change this to a smaller footprint, I do not think that… This helps Volusia County. JEFFREY BROWER: Councilman Robbins. DANNY ROBINS: Chair, it appears we will go into discussion. I would like to make… Chair, how would you prefer it? We can just do it for discussion only, and then do the proposal. You want me to – would you prefer the proposal up front? Because there may be more discussion. I know there are a couple people waiting. JEFFREY BROWER: Do still have questions? OK, that is alright. Let's take the questions first. Councilman Santiago. DAVID SANTIAGO: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Clay, doesn't limit the number of vehicles come back CLAY ERVIN: Yes, sir. Two. DAVID SANTIAGO: Troy brought up the Sanford and son image. The way your ordinance is written here today, could we get Sanford and sons legally with this? I know that is a very big description. But (Laughs) CLAY ERVIN: Again, we are working off the directive for what we heard from you. What we heard was the concerns you saw with the code violations we brought up. Where again you have heavy equipment, and a variety of different things worked in the front, a variety of different sites. That is something we heard you did not want. What you wanted to be able to do was to allow for reasonable use of larger tracts of land where the occupant had a semi-vehicle or similar type of vehicle to be able to park in a manner that minimizes the impact on the general public. DAVID SANTIAGO: So this would not open the door to Sanford and son? CLAY ERVIN: In our humble opinion as her staff, we believe it is meeting the policy direction you all gave us with the specifics that were identified. DAVID SANTIAGO: I got you. Thank you very much. I am good for now, thank you Mr. Chair. JEFFREY BROWER: You're welcome. DON DEMPSEY: I have a question, Clay I'm looking at your definition section here, page 45 on the top… (Away from microphone) it's is the definition of a large vehicle includes a truck with a gross vehicle weight greater than 10,500 pounds? CLAY ERVIN: Yes, sir. DON DEMPSEY: That would include Ford F2 50 and Ford F3 50, both of which I drive and my wife drive, Jake drives come in yours and we could not park our trucks in front of our house? Under this ordinance? CLAY ERVIN: I believe that those… DON DEMPSEY: It just is no truck, trailer, semi, all that stuff for any truck with a gross vehicle weight greater than 10,500. CLAY ERVIN: What Paolo was saying was that these were existing definitions that we're not modifying anything with those but if you feel we need to address those, we can. DON DEMPSEY: Am not comfortable. F2 50/F3 50, much everyone on the west side drives those. We have to bump this number way up. (Laughs) JEFFREY BROWER: OK… One more question from Councilman Robbins. DANNY ROBINS: Is there a mechanism in place for enforcement? I know the answer to this… To alleviate any junkyards? Because that is not my intent here. Is there an enforcement mechanism, code enforcement, yada yada, currently? CLAY ERVIN: For a true junkyard, yes. When we start getting into issues is where people start talking about home-based businesses. That has been the biggest problem we have had in regards to folks being able to identify they are operating a home-based business. So as long as… With that provision, as long as you are parked behind a fence, as long as it not visible from right-of-way, or adjacent property… DANNY ROBINS: As it stands right now, though, if you have a commercial vehicle that is over 10,000 pounds in your yard, and that is an ordinance, which it is… Is there an enforcement mechanism, is code enforcement able to cite that person? CLAY ERVIN: Yes, sir. DANNY ROBINS: OK, thank you. JEFFREY BROWER: Councilman Reinhart. MATT REINHART: Thank you, Chair. One quick question. I am glad Councilman Robbins brought up the code enforcement. Are you proactive or reactive in terms of enforcement? CLAY ERVIN: We are complaints driven. MATT REINHART: So the complaint has to be received, not anonymous, in order for code enforcement to act on these trucks or whatever may be in the front yard? CLAY ERVIN: Yes sir, I need to provide clear vacation. I want to make sure counsel understands. If you call and complain about Mr Robbins, I show up at Mr Robbins and I am the code enforcement officer, and I go to his front yard… Our code enforcement officers are looking around. Because, the fact is that as soon as we tell that to Mr Robbins, he is going to go where you picking on me when the guy right across the street has the same thing? And the person across the street could have code -- hold in the violation. We call it the 360 rule. If you are standing on the front porch of the person who has been complained about, you see the violation somewhere else, you let the property owner note that you are in violation. MATT REINHART: Kind of like that, that is one street. CLAY ERVIN: We are not going out patrolling, and actively seeking the violation. MATT REINHART: Understand. Thank you. JEFFREY BROWER: Councilman Robbins. DANNY ROBINS: Thank you Chair, I would like to make a motion to modify this existing proposal. And make it 1 acre minimums, for RR – rural residential zoning plus vacations. It also include all non-conforming lost, 1 acre and above. DON DEMPSEY: I will second if we can edit up to 18,000 pounds or something so F250s and F350s in some way Dodge and Chevy's can be part in front yards. JEFFREY S BROWER: Before you answer, it says in here commercial vehicles. If it is a residential pickup truck, 250, 350, whatever – is not included in this? SPEAKER: We go by weight. JEFFREY S BROWER: Who's going to weigh it? PAOLO SORIA: It is basically based on registration. If you are making those changes, my recommendation is to give us direction, we will take it and come back with finalize language to clarify it rather than trying to change the language on the fly, here. So, you know, if you make a motion giving us direction, we will provide you the clarify changes so you can see how it looks in text. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK. Councilman Denny Robbins? DANNY ROBINS: I am amicable to that. I think this would be a good start. Let's have them bring it back and then also to address this concern. If you want to get into this, any vehicle that you use, it could be a car or an F150. If you are pulling a long trailer or a landscape trailer, if you're using it for profit or for hire, is that not commercial here? And then we can look at you limits, had it for a number of years, we can go in all of that. This would give initial direction for staff to come back, give us some language and if we want, I would be more than happy to help you adjust and identify what needs to be changed in terms of legal definitions. JEFFREY S BROWER: How about if you withdraw your motion and make a new motion to table? Unless you just want to give an open end time? SPEAKER: If council would like us to come back, we don't need to table it, we would have to re-advertise anyway, so we can bring it back when ready. Obviously we want way too long. JEFFREY S BROWER: District staff to come back and modified to address concerns identified. If that is the direction, council will follow through. SPEAKER: What you have is including 1 acre, nonconforming lots of any acreage? So 1 acre minimum including nonconforming lots and all rural and transitional agricultural zoning classifications. SPEAKER: Just to clarify, if you have a two zoning, that requires a minimum area of 5 acres but you have a parcel that is 1.5 acres, that would be a legal nonconforming lot. So you are saying that if you have that, you would still be able to utilize it? JEFFREY S BROWER: That is not what I am saying, I want to make sure that... SPEAKER: The technical longform. JEFFREY S BROWER: And this takes care of the pickup truck problem for you? DON DEMPSEY: No, it doesn't -- because it says any truck over 10,500 needs to be parked. F150, 350, that means we need to park behind our house. DANNY ROBINS: We can handle this first and then Donnie can address that. SPEAKER: Currently in the code, the definitions, and says track, tractor, semi, except those allowed by the exemption we are talking about and all of this with the gross vehicle weight rather than 10,500 pounds. As determined by the vehicle registration, shall be parked except well-being loaded or unloaded for commercial purposes in a variety of zoning districts. So what we will do is look at the weight of an F150 or Dodge and take it and see where we are at and report back. DON DEMPSEY: You kind of left out the awkward phrase, It says semi trailer, commercial cutaway. SPEAKER: Is your microphone on? DON DEMPSEY: Or any truck was GW greater than not, that is my F150 and Jake's. I mean, I think anybody going anywhere with an F150 or 250, 350 would be opposed to it. JAKE JOHANSSON: I would like to chime in, I am seeing 506 or in Volusia County, 5064 F for 50s, driven privately for pleasure. I have a Dodge 3500 that is not for hire. Don brings up a point that a car can be commercial. Our point is to bring up the frontage for this, not that we restrict commercial for a house? If I have a landscaping agency and 3 acres of land, I should be able to park my F1 50 with a sign that says Jake's landscaping outfront. If you want to restrict that, go live in Aahoa, which I do. But I think because of where we live, the Ford F1 50 or something of that ilk ought to be the high limit. Like Danny said, this will be added later or a separate from the ordinance. But 14,000, I did not realize a Ford F150 was 14,000 pounds so... that is where I sit with this. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK... you do but before you do, we have two members of public who would like to speak. They have waited for this, you can see where it is going. Tim Hoover first and then Tonya Anderson. SPEAKER: Tim Hoover, 110 quiet place in the country. HOA president. We are a residential neighborhood, we are not a commercial neighborhood. Parking semi's, commercial tracks, you can – however you want, if it is an F350 and I own one as well, it is over 10,000 pounds. We are not talking about that. We are talking about semi trailers. Parking it within 5 feet of your property line. Who is going to police this? It is not being policed now. We have had you guys come into our neighborhood and you have seen it all we get is **Audio lost** **Audio Restored** SPEAKER: We have four or five vehicles unregistered in backyards now, we look like Sanford and Son now what you're after bigger fish and now you're putting more code enforcement? You're putting more work on those guys? They are busy now, they just react. The only time they go to a place is if you call, with a plea. They don't police it. **Audio lost** **Audio Restored** SPEAKER: The area, we have this everywhere. I am telling you now, the code enforcement cannot enforce this. Are they going to go up and not on the homeowners door and say, "hey, let me see your registration to make sure you own those vehicles and they are back far enough. Is this a 2 1/2 acre lot?" I don't know, they don't know. If they do call and complain, what do we get? The code enforcement officer says hey, you have a complaint against you and they say, "who did it?" And they say, your neighbor over there, Tim Hoover in the blue house, he is complaining. Next thing I know, I have Bubba, 265 pounds knocking on my door, "why are you complaining about me again?" **Audio lost** **Audio Restored** SPEAKER: That is the way it reacts and that has happened and that is the truth. All you guys need to do is give the code enforcement people to go out and police the area. You are adding more chunks onto it, more work for them to do and you ask who is going to enforce it? Those guys can't enforce it. The only time they will enforce it is when we call and then I have Bubba on my back because I called on him. That is not a good neighborhood. And guess what? I am not, he will have to come in maybe three semi's there and his junk stored there and grass growing up above it. Come on. What does this do? Like you said, what does this do to make Volusia County better? Nothing. Mr. Robins, I ask you what size lot do you live on? **Audio lost** **Audio Restored** SPEAKER: If it was 2 1/2, you would approve this. It must be a 1 acre lot you live on so you have a semi on your property. Buy a bigger lot, or to a commercial property. This is crazy. Sanford and Son, that is what you're going to get. JEFFREY S BROWER: Tonya Anderson? SPEAKER: Good evening, my name is Tanya Anderson and I reside at 345 W., Quiet Place in the country. I am speaking on behalf of my husband Jeff who cannot be here because of a business trip that I share the same concerns. He wanted me to share the following. I have lived in Volusia County since 1973. Except for the time spent in college, I entire adult life in Volusia County. I have owned acreage in quiet place since 1986 and lived on the property since building a home in 2003. I purchased that property because it was rural setting like that property I grew up on. People want to live in rural communities. They wanted peace, quiet, space, trees and wildlife. Most purchase properties here to enjoy the benefits it provides. They don't want rural communities turning into because business districts. In this is simply due to a piece that some business owners choose not to conduct business in the business district but want to conflate residents and business at the expense of their neighbors. If the needs of the business require storage of vehicles in question, owners of those business should be making the necessary arrangements for the storage of those vehicles. It is not a response ability of Volusia County government to make accommodations for those business owners at the expense of property owners who purchase property in a rural setting instantly want to take advantage of their right of quiet enjoyment. In our particular neighborhood, it is a small number of residents who have used residential property for both their home and the business that falls outside current County ordinance. Many purchase with the sole intent to use land for commercial storage. They selfishly choose to do so without any concern of how it affects community by also providing their business a competitive advantage against competitors who do not have the ability to do the same. Those properties and quiet place in the country are less than 2.5 acres. I could simply go along to get along. I could have the attitude that if it does not affect me, don't care. However today you are asking to reduce it to 2.5 and it sounds like it may be lower than that. I am sure it would reduce it to accommodate lower acreage members who live on smaller County parcels. At a County Council meeting it was presented as a financial benefit to community. I think they are forgetting about the lost revenue for businesses that offer the services of vehicle storage. The additional taxes that the storage facility would be paying. The additional cost of maintenance of residential roads not designed to withstand the daily use of heavy commercial trucks. The decreased property values due to the overall degradation of the neighborhood. Respect to our community, the change would positively affect only a few and negatively affect almost all. There are other communities in somewhere situations. Thank you for your time and allowing me to speak my voice. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. Councilman Danny Robins? DANNY ROBINS: One final question, do HOA's have the ability to make restrictions or rules within their HOA? SPEAKER: Restrictions agreed to by homeowners can be implemented. DANNY ROBINS: In reality, if this HOA wanted to make the rule regardless of our determination today or in the future, can they do so, yes or no? SPEAKER: Yes. DANNY ROBINS: Thank you, no further questions. TROY KENT: Thank you, Chairman. Again, I am not convinced how this makes Volusia County at her. I think it makes it worse. It is everyone's right to make a motion, and I appreciate that. The Robbins made his motion, I thought I was going to die for lack of a second, then Mr Dempsey jumped in and seconded it. Because I was going to make the motion of what staff has recommended. So counsel, I will be voting 'no' on I would say the amended motion, but really it was not amended. Amended staff's recommendation, I guess. I will be a no on this. And if it does, then I will make a motion to approve what staff has recommended. JEFFREY BROWER: OK. Mr Robbins you want to restate your motion? DANNY ROBINS: My motion, first of all, all of the concerns have been addressed. I heard it from legal, to members of the audience. Counsel, as a statement here, in the country, when we move out to the country, this is our way of life. Early this is to empower not just the homeowner, but the people that are pushing or wanting to put food on the table to support their family without government interference onto their property. There is still some regulations with this. There is still enforcement mechanism in place. This is to empower people to work. We want people working. Therefore, making Volusia County a better place, because we do not have to raise taxes to support such people. Especially with possibly going to a further economic decline. So, that is the motivation behind this. This is happening anyway. I just want a piece of mind for our people. People in my district, across my district wildly support this. That is why I was bringing it up. In my motion stays the same. To adjust this to 1 acre minimums. Include all rural and transitional agricultural zoning classifications, to include RR, 1 acre minimum. And all nonconforming uses with a 1 acre minimum. Thank you. SPEAKER: we are also going to bring back the clarified definitions of commercial vehicles. In large vehicles. We will do some research to find that no one inadvertently stumbles into a infraction. JEFFREY BROWER: Is there a second to the motion? DON DEMPSEY: I will send it, but are we seconding to approve it as written, or sickening to have staff go back and revise a couple of things and bring it back? DANNY ROBINS: To have staff bring it back with the motion that I made. To see the verbiage on it. But it was already seconded. DON DEMPSEY: I will seconded for 1/3 time. (Multiple speakers) PAOLO SORIA: I just want to clarify. We are changing some substantive effort -- sections of it. We will do it on a hastened schedule, and bring back a revised ordinance back to counsel. IFHE OK. JEFFREY BROWER: OK. For I call for the vote, Vice Chair Kent? TROY KENT: Thank you. I know this is a motion just to have staff bring it back with cleaned up language. I will still vote no on it, because I am OK with the language we have now. I would just say, an acre of land is really not that big as a piece of land. I think that this, not to beat a dead horse, but I think that this is going to have unintended consequences. And you know, we will have some very unhappy residents. We have not had anybody come before us this evening and tell us they want this. But we have had three from the audience come up and say please do not do this. Thank you. JEFFREY BROWER: Councilman Santiago. DAVID SANTIAGO: Thank you, I will be brief. Similar comments to Troy, however, I am going to vote in favor of sending it back to staff. I do remember that the dialogue we had… I don't know, a few months ago about this. It had to do with the size. I think we landed, you and I were pushing for the 2.5 acres. But in the interest of giving you an opportunity to keep working on it. I will support the motion, but I will… I have to wrap my head around reducing it to 1. You will have to help me get there, later on. Later on, thank you. (Laughs) I have a bet with Don that we will be out of here in nine minutes. That is why. JEFFREY BROWER: OK. No other comments, Chris would you call the role on the new motion? SPEAKER: Mr Johansson. Mr Kent. TROY KENT: No. SPEAKER: Mr Reinhart. Mr Robbins. Mr Santiago. Mr Dempsey. Mr Brower. JEFFREY BROWER: No. Motion carries 5-2. That takes us to item 10. Award bid for bulk fuel to multiple vendors. SPEAKER: Good evening Jeaniene Jennings, director of business services. I will help you get to your nine minutes. This is a straight bid, bulk fuel. We put it out, we are part of a consortium that we do the solicitation for. That includes most of the cities and Flagler County, and the school board. What we are asking is a recommendation of award to three vendors for our large loads. And three vendors for our short loads. That gives us enough capacity to help us in any emergencies, and any shortages we may face. I will take any questions. JEFFREY BROWER: Any questions from the Council? DAVID SANTIAGO: Motion to approve. JAKE JOHANSSON: Second. JEFFREY BROWER: David Santiago makes a motion to approve. Jake Johansson makes a second. Comments? All in favor say 'aye'. (Multiple speakers) JEFFREY BROWER: Any opposed? Well done. 7-0 the motion passes. Item 11, at large appointment to the Affordable Housing Advisory Committee. JAKE JOHANSSON: At this time I would like to nominate Carrie Rosalieno. She is my nomination of the faith group. As you guys are familiar with, my conversation earlier, faith is very often critical of government sanctions regarding affordable housing, among other things. It lacks somewhat of an understanding of what we do now, particularly in AHACK (?) I would like to remedy that. And start working collaboratively with faith, to by inviting Carrie to the table. Also still try to meet with faith monthly. I think those two things will get us part way there. DAVID SANTIAGO: Second that. JAKE JOHANSSON: Thank you. JEFFREY BROWER: Carry Roslynie (?) SPEAKER: (Away from microphone) JEFFREY BROWER: OK, nominated. A second by David Santiago. All in favor say 'aye'. (Multiple speakers) JEFFREY BROWER: Nomination is co Jon Nicholson. Confirmed, 7-0. Do we have any public comment? SPEAKER: I do not know if you read the paper anymore, this popped up the other day. Volusia County specifically, Daytona Beach, million dollar club. First in the nation for having vacation rentals. When I moved to Daytona Beach, 40 years ago, we were the lowest-priced properties on the East Coast. Until 2004 we were the lowest priced properties on the East Coast. 2004, hurricanes… They wiped out – we did, 17 properties on the ocean. To this day, we are 16 of those properties, are still empty, 20 years later. We are not doing anything. All of a sudden now we are building million-dollar properties. I do not know what it is going to do. It is a good thing for us. Good thing for Ormond Beach, the shores. There is a condo hopefully going in across the street from me. With 150 million dollar condos. Great for our tax base in Daytona Beach. But, like I worried about what was going on when I thought Margaritaville was going in. My city was convinced it was not going on. I was convinced that there was a need for reefs off the coast of Daytona Beach. And (Indiscernible) County, because there could be tremendous damage to the upland properties. Nobody thought there was a need for reefs. I do not know how to express it, because I do not convince anybody of anything. Nobody put a reef in, although they were free. (Indiscernible) had a way of getting them in for free, and we chose not to do it. As you know, these properties people will not live in it. Not for a year, two years, five years, 10 years… When they retire. They will be empty for 10, 11 months out of the year. So they will not be buying any… Vegetables, and the fruits, they will not go to any restaurants. They will not do any shopping. They will not go to the theater. It is going to be vacant property spread and all the energy that goes into building these, could go into affordable housing. One of the problem is, they cannot get enough employees to build the houses. They cannot get enough cement, or would build the houses. The price is going through the roof. So we are going to use it on these debts will sit empty. I do not know what the consequences of those… I cannot put my finger on it. But I know that something is coming down the pike that we have to look at. Whether we want these taking up our oceanfront… Just beware. Thank you. JEFFREY BROWER: Thank you. SPEAKER: Mr Johansson, I would like to confirm that you appointed Miss Carrie as a citizen actively engaged as an advocate for low income persons in connection with a verbal housing. JAKE JOHANSSON: That is correct. JEFFREY BROWER: OK. That takes us to the County Manager. GEORGE RECKTENWALD: Yes sir, Mr. Chair. First off, just want to… Put out that we are going to have an open house opportunity for motocross. The county is inviting the public to attend an in person open house. Tuesday the 23rd. To learn about the motocross facility that is being proposed. (Indiscernible) Road and (Indiscernible) Road. We will hold it out at the Tomoka landfill operations center from five-7 PM. It will be open house though, there will not be a formal presentation. (Indiscernible) storyboards and people set up that people can go by. They can ask questions, talk to folks are familiar with the project. And… Leave, submit comments. So we can incorporate them as we go forward with the project. So, if you get a chance, people are interested to go out. (Indiscernible) landfill operations center is pretty nice. Having been in there. Next up… Wanted to comment a little bit but Belvedere discussion earlier. And also was asked to update where we were. Where we are at today… If you recall, there was a (Indiscernible) application that was put in, and at that time… We responded along with the city of Ormond Beach. We got together, we met. And we paid back 22 pages of questions and comments that went back to the Belvedere folks. This is a pre-application, we do not have an application. So I think there was some question earlier about how long do people have… Well, they do not really have anything yet, because they do not have an application. Pre-application, and we sent back 22 pages worth of questions. We have not heard back. So it is really in their court at this time. I know many, there was $10 million I think, in the budget. State level, that could be used to help the facility. Flagler, Volusia, or (Indiscernible) County, but the governor has not signed that yet. So it has not occurred until he signs. Then I would expect we will probably hear something, or we will make contact to find out where that is that. I just wanted you to know that the ball is in their court and they got a load of stuff to talk about. That was just from the pre-application. The other thing I wanted to quickly address today, that towing industry folks, there are several layers to this. But basically, there is a contract in existence today that is put out and bid on competitively. The pricing in that, is there pricing that they have given us. That goes out every so many years. The idea that nothing has changed is since 2002 is not accurate because we put out the bid. I think part of what they're talking about, is stuff that is not applicable to our County contracts but there are ordinances that restrict how much they can call in and say they have a parking lot or something and they're going to have some toad out of there. That's what they are talking about. We will take a look at that and see if that needs updating. I know, when we looked at this a while back, how were In the same neighborhood, is in (Indiscernible), and a lot of very urban and expensive counties. We find ourselves out of whack but it has been a while, we will definitely take a look at bring something back. That is all I have. JEFFREY S BROWER: Michael Dyer? MICHAEL DYER: There are a number of things that were said, considering the lateness of the hour. I want to think Paolo Soria for the work that he is doing every day for the hard work and who works with the staff just trying to do their job. So thank you. I want to ask him to come to the podium but I will do that. JEFFREY S BROWER: That brings us to the County Council and today we start with Jake Johansson. JAKE JOHANSSON: Thank you sir. In an effort to get away. I am hoping that the organization, the board members off will be come to us with short, concise, brief of what they do to us, and what we have done in the past to justify the money, it seems like the budget starts… And everybody gets and shows up with 40 minute briefs trying to justify his in the budget. As some of you might remember, (Indiscernible) for the planning regional Council. I would like to kick it off and invite them to provide us with an overview of what they do. I know conversations we have had with counsel led by Mr. Kent, we agreed to get B's or not as part of the actual formal meeting. Or as an info item. I would like to support that. And then maybe, however the members of team Volusia, I know we get briefed by them. But that would be another. And any other one that we participate in, and refund, but we may not be exactly sure what they have been doing for us this year. So I would like to start that process before it comes up in the budget and everybody kind of, you know, worries about whether they are going to be funded or not. George, I would like to make sure that I understand, based on stuff like this, I know this isn't your product, I cannot be handed this at game day. Not knowing whether it is information in addition to what we have or not. So, I am hoping we don't get handed a bunch of paperwork on the 30th for the workshop and say, "Oh, here is some additional information you might find useful." We are having a hard time reading that. We have gotten a bunch of information from Clay and some interesting stuff. And I want to make sure we get materials ahead of time. If there is more coming. County attorney, and George, I will send you a bunch of questions about the towing. Just to keep it short. And, I know that when the public speaks, they come with a lot of passion and well-meaning but for the most part, their concern is not unfounded. But every once in a while, there's a little dig in there that I feel obligated to comment on. You know, when counsel said, they guarantee or the best based on the vote that you guys were working basically behind sunshine for the vote, I think it was Belvidere, that was the discussion item. If it was 704, the moratorium, they would have thought that they would talk outside the sunshine. I would like to guarantee it from my perspective that I do not have conversations with other elected officials about anything other than fishing, NBA and stupid stuff we do. There is no talking in the sunshine or outside the sunshine amongst any elected officials that I am aware of. And they are looking to make sure we don't. So having said that, Chairman, I am done with the evening. Thank you very much. JEFFREY S BROWER: Vice chair Kent? TROY KENT: I appreciate that you brought up the idea that we get some type of feedback that we have contracts with. We find out where they are and what they are accomplishing. I'm totally behind. George, you and your team are in charge of that to get that information. I heard, our manager and I heard with Mr. Johansson talk about the towing rates. I was prepared tonight, right now to ask this council that this come back as a discussion item. I don't think that's necessary after hearing George. He will get some information. I will just publicly say, I'm hopeful you going to do that in the next 2 months and that your staff will reach out to every individual towing company that was you today to let them know that you are going to do that. You will give us information so that they are aware and everything is up and up with them. Because, your story is different than what they are sharing. It is important for us to hear all sides of it. It is important for them to be heard. I really enjoy all of the talk, that the first speaker statistics, it was very interesting to me. I haven't asked for anything in the agenda for a while. The first one is Maryam (unknown name) reached out to be. She's a member of the peace Center for girls and she and I had a discussion and I will say, it's no affiliation with Volusia County schools. She asked me, that I will make a motion to have a discussion item and I was in the next 2 months, or the Center for gross and what Volusia County can do when there endeavors of new building. I will say from what I understand, they are receiving some money from the state and I want to find it exactly where this new site is going to be, Ormond Beach, I think they should purchase would. If it's going to be Daytona Beach, they should participate. It went the County to participate. At the end of the day, these are students that normally would attend Volusia County schools. There is a motion and I heard a 2nd? JEFFREY S BROWER: There's a motion on the floor to come back with a discussion item. For ideas on how to pace with the new building. The 2nd is from Mr. Reinhart. MATT REINHART: Is it possible to get them at least beforehand on the presentation or some sort? GEORGE RECKTENWALD: I will emphasize, short, that is what we like and have it to you ahead of time and then we can take the time to do the discussion. JEFFREY S BROWER: All in favor say 'aye' in any opposed? TROY KENT: I will also ask that we have an update and discussion on the funding on the LPGA an improvement. We have talked about the state, I would love for us to have an update for us to speak freely on the funding for that road and the improvements that are desperately needed. JEFFREY S BROWER: Is there a 2nd to that motion? Motion made by Troy Kent to have a funding and second by Matt Reinhart. Any discussion? All in favor? Any opposed? TROY KENT: My last comment is to the Council. I just wanted to tell you gentlemen and also to staff, I spent 19 years on Ormond Beach city commission, we have been together 15 months here. I did not stop and think about it until recently, I am amazed at what we have accomplished in this short tenure that the 7 of us have been together. It is impressive not only to me but to the constituents that I talked to. This is never a one person show. We have been together on things, we have disagreed on things, but for the most part it is always been in a positive way and I am appreciative of that. I just want you, 6 gentlemen to know, I appreciate the hard work that you put into this every day. To George and Mike, and your staff, I appreciate whatever you hear from this council, I have seen a more rapid pace to get those priorities accomplished and the residents are noticing also. Have a good evening. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman Reinhart? MATT REINHART: Vice chair Kent took my thunder on the items. SPEAKER: Does that mean you're done? MATT REINHART: No I am not. May 5 to 11, I was going to do this last, but I will do this first. It is National Corrections Officers Week. May 6 is before the meeting when I am going to be presented, which go figure. I'm looking forward, thank you gentlemen for supporting that. It is also nurses week and I understand there is a couple of proclamation going up for that. One of which is the nurses at the jail that I will be presenting. Well-deserved recognition for them. Friday, I went to the city of Daytona Beach Shores where Nancy Mill and Commissioner said, welcome to the participants on the conclusion of the 20th annual (unknown name) for the right. J, you were missed. They did ask where you were at. And I said he's busy raising cars. That 300+ mile race started the prior Monday North Miami beach and end at Daytona Beach Shores. I commend the law enforcement members to write that very long journey for such a good cause. This you will benefit the fallen officers during 2023. It is a great event, several that actually write that entire distance and I think they do like 50 or 60 miles per day. I told them I think I saw him jump on his bike a while back, so he laughed. Thursday, Councilman Robbins and myself are part of the Daytona chamber of commerce-- on opioids in the workplace. The purpose of this panel not only to bring awareness to this deadly epidemic, but also to discuss a multipronged approach on how to better tackle the issues associated with it. It was a great discussion, and give us the opportunity, we had a couple doctors there from Halifax and attorney's perspective, Danny sits on the opioid panel for us. I was trying to bring the jails stuff about it in, but also, because it has affected me, the 29th of this month will be one year since the loss of my brother, due to overdose. It was very important for me to attend that meeting to discuss anything we can do to assist with what Barbara from the board is doing and also-- they do a phenomenal work as well. And lastly, turtle day. Great event, if you guys missed it, I am telling you. It is a great event, I always am overwhelmed by Chad and his staff and what he is able to do. The place is packed, and I do understand the challenges associated with the traffic with respect to that, George and I briefly discuss that. So we are in talks with the city on how we can help with that, and we will sit down with him, and you have may be aware of that and I appreciate, before I can even ask you, so you said that, I think you very much. Other than that, thank you guys very much and have a good night. JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman Robbins. Just echo a little bit what Mr. Kent said, we are making great progress on what we do. I have never seen or imagine we we get some progress like we are getting, I think each of our districts are so different, and it is always enjoyable to kind of hear all sides of but I also appreciate the consideration with each individual district member who I say knows who is most intimate with the district, to have that trust with each member, and the ability to represent the base of their constituency. We deal with a lot of issues and all these issues, there isn't one out there that doesn't have unintended consequences. When I look at issues, I try to make sure that we look at everything, you know, to minimalize that, set up protections for each other. And for each other's constituents and also for success. And we talk a lot about liberty, you guys will see like I said, in the beginning of the year, I'm focusing and really drilling down on getting rid of the bureaucracy in some of these, I just say strangling an wet blanket ordinances that we have in Volusia, and a lot of the things we discussed are great in a city setting, and I believe in them. When I review and talk to constituents, they are dealing in the County the County of Volusia, they are talking apples and oranges, and I was a 99% of the circumstances. I'm thankful for them and think for the time you guys allowed me for giving some of these discussions, Troy, I'm hoping I can earn your support. Thank you, guys. JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman Santiago. SPEAKER: Love is in the air, it is not even valentines. (Laughter) great comments, guys. Couple of things that I had already taken, but one thing I ask for consensus or support from the Council, want to cover two things regarding our land-use workshop that we have scheduled. One, I have an unavoidable conflict on the day and I want to see if the Council would entertain deceive the staff could look for another day that we could work on it? I've tried play around with the schedule,-- what is that? To see as soon as possible, after that, I've got an unavoidable conflict that day, if I can get some support to relook at that, I would appreciate it. JEFFREY S BROWER: You are talking for April 30? SPEAKER: Correct, I really want to be there. TROY KENT: If someone can't make it, I'm totally fine finding another days we can all be there. SPEAKER: I'm going to be out May 10 through the 13th myself, but I want to try and make it work for you. SPEAKER: I guess it's good to be different for everybody, maybe staff could play with it and see, I want to get done as quickly as possible, yes. I think George has got something. SPEAKER: Just to show you, Mr. Santiago did give me a heads up, he was going to ask. This is what we are dealing with right now, it would look like the closest we could get in on that might be 11 June or 13 June, depending on a couple of things here that might be flexible. I just wanted to point out May is looking a little ugly, just because a lot of people are going to be out of town on those days. SPEAKER: June 11 or 10th are great for me, both days, I am wide open. Anybody else the 11th or 13th of June good for you? SPEAKER: I know one of those is a briefing which I'm sure we could work with and we will look at and might be down an attorney, but we will see-- SPEAKER: One less attorney I don't think is going to hurt anybody. SPEAKER: What I will do is if those two dates are OK I will get back with Dana, and we will see which one works the best and go back out. SPEAKER: I wouldn't be able to do either of those days in June. That is-- SPEAKER: We have staff get with the members? I appreciate it. SPEAKER: We will go look and see what else we can do. SPEAKER: Thank you. Even if one of those days are blocked out because maybe I can switch some stuff around. SPEAKER: I will say, it looks like there is a couple of them that are, there are two of you. But if that is being the case, as long as I have the OK go ahead so I don't have to cancel the 30th too.-- I will get on the couple of these and maybe we can get them changed. SPEAKER: For me it is okayed cancel the 30th, I think of her when she be present if we can. SPEAKER: It's too bad because-- it would've worked out beautifully. Thank you, council members, I appreciate it. With that being the same theme on the workshop, I was giving it some thought, Jake, sorry. SPEAKER: Let me come down first. DAVID SANTIAGO: I was given some thoughts on, I thought when we gave staff direction on this workshop, I think it was too broad, I don't think we gave them. The land use is such a big-- we threw everything at them, I felt that that topic is important enough and so deep that unless the first meeting is a segregating output areas that we want to tackle, but I just worry about when we do have a meeting, the topics are going to be so broad, I don't know how we are go to be affected. Yeah, maybe the first one is that, narrowing it down. I just wanted to voice concern, I could envision that meeting and whether or not we have a facilitator also to help us move along with that meeting. I was just looking at the functionalities of it. I don't know if anybody else had the concern, but I am a kit with diving in. JEFF BROWER: What did you want to narrow it down to? DAVID SANTIAGO: We talked about zoning categories, some gaps-- filling in areas where it is promotable, and we also talked to, last thing I remember, I wrote down, design standards. I mentioned design standards at one time when we were doing commercial stuff, that is what I remembered. CLAY ERVIN: This came from a recommendation because there were two issues that you all directed at two with the original goal setting which was looking at special exceptions that could be made into permitted uses or conditional uses, and amending and brought that forward you all asked it to be put to a workshop to go over it. And as part of that discussion, the other topic that was identified was the concern that again, councilmember Robbins brought up all the permitting and going through what are we required to do by federal state charter, and can we get rid of some of those permits? Those were the two primary things that drove it, then we started getting into 10 journal items on there. DAVID SANTIAGO: Talk about the special exceptions in the number of categories if we accept 4/5-- CLAY ERVIN: That is already coming to you in the event there was identified, also, a meeting later, was the discussion on the eye to zoning were we have the extreme open ended list of permitted uses. Those were the three main topics that we were addressing, then we started working on the others. DAVID SANTIAGO: Would be safe to say that it is a lot to take on and one workshop? I won't put words in your mouth, George, anybody? GEORGE RECKTENWALD: We are prepared to do it but I will say, when we had this meeting the other day, we were somewhere in the neighbourhood of 36-- that is our working stuff, you wouldn't see that, but it would be a part of the background material that would've gone ahead of time, it was August we feel like again, you had mentioned, we would definitely want this out in your hands ahead of time to read and look at because not only would it be kind of the slides telling the framework, but also background information with it. It would be quite a bit of a trail and that is why we are just getting ready to put it out here shortly. DAVID SANTIAGO: We can always schedule a second one afterwards. GEORGE RECKTENWALD: When you get the material you can take a look and start, as Clay said, we are directed at we get as far as we get, then we can say we will meet again further workshop, if we don't get as far as we want. DAVID SANTIAGO: Sounds good to me, thank you, Mr. Chair. GEORGE RECKTENWALD: I will need to cancel that meeting with the motion when we come back. JEFFREY S BROWER: We have a motion to cancel the 30th workshop? David Santiago's second and Jake Johansen, did you have a comment? JAKE JOHANSSON: I rearranged the schedule to be available. Not David's faults. Now we are changing it again. I suggest, it doesn't have to be done now, but I suggest we reschedule next year quarterly workshops, and then cancel. Because that we can all schedule out of here around the workshops, if they go away, no harm, no foul, there's a lot of junk with kids coming home from college and college graduations. They just got let out, and so, you guys know me, I like a little bit of routine here and this kind of messes it up. So, if we just put him on the schedule, then we can-- and something tells me we like the philosophical discussion for those workshops, even if it is for something simple, so we can chat informally about it. I suggest we do that next year. Not tonight. So, that is all I have, thanks. JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman Dempsey? DON DEMPSEY: One of the thing we talked about, Clay, here he is. Not only were we can discuss whether special exceptions could be converted to permitted uses, but also that permitted use could also go up or down the zoning classifications. If something is a permitted use or if it is a special exception in three, we change it to a permitted use we can also discuss whether we want to make that also inclusive for a two or one zoning as well. CLAY ERVIN: That was part of the analysis that was committed to you all and identifies a broad basis of the zoning districts allowed by special exception. That was part of it. DON DEMPSEY: -- I just wanted to bring up in that study that was done which I don't know if you can tell from the last discussion about it, I'm not a big fan of the report at all. For some reason, I have been tagged, my belief would be 2 1/2 million dollars or less because like I told you, I have priced these out before. The survey came back and 10.3 million. Which I believe was grossly overpriced, we had three track owners here will also testified that I believe it was way exorbitant. And unconscionable, I can tell you right now for the record, if it is 10.3 million, I am a no vote for it. I will put that on the record right now, that is how sure I am it is not to be that much. The poll County, one of the comparable sites that was used in the study was bone Valley which is a park, a similar park that I am proposing in Pohl County. Bone Valley just announced on April 9 that one of the gentlemen that was here, Jason Baker, who owns dream tracks and has been busy for 20 years are opening up a motocross facility there. Jason Baker will design and build the track at a cost of $240,000. OK? We got an estimate from Hunton of $1.8 million for basically the same thing. So, I just want to go on the record that I do not agree, it's not going to be a $10 million facility. It's going to be $2 million or less, in my opinion. I would never even bring something like that forward, for the taxpayers to pay. But I do think if we are paying a couple million for COBOL, routinely, 2 million is nothing to ask for the kids who enjoy and off-road dirt biking when there's nothing to go in the county. I want to bring that up because I thought – I think it is great that they recognize the need. One of the people who came here and spoke, just for the 240,000. It is not $10 million present. I would encourage you guys to come out next Tuesday and go to the open house. I believe a lot of people will be here, a lot of families, and you will better understand what the sport is all about. There is a need for it. Other counties are doing it, I just think, it's long overdue that Volusia County joins the bandwagon, I believe speedways behind it. NASCAR is behind it. Speedway owns the AMA. You did not include in your conversation (Laughs). I want to bring that up because you support this proposal does not mean that by any stretch, it is because the County $10.3 million. I think – I don't even want to describe what I'm thinking about that number. No counties doing it for 240,000. Thank you for your attention. GEORGE RECKTENWALD: I think there is a vote to cancel the workshop. JEFFREY S BROWER: That is not your fault Don. All in favor of canceling the 30th meeting. Any opposed? And it is canceled. DON DEMPSEY: Can I repeat everything that Jake said? Because we were out of order. (Laughs) JEFFREY S BROWER: Just quick questions, probably for you George. For clarification, the guys that came in and talked about towing this morning, they are talking about, we don't have anything to do with what they can charge private people to go into somebody from their home. GEORGE RECKTENWALD: There is an ordinance on the books that talks about trespass towing. You can contract out and generally, if he they do nonconsensual trespass to, they have to follow the standards that are in the ordinance. JEFFREY S BROWER: My car breaks down and call a tow truck, they can charge whatever they want. Judgment because that's not a nontransparent sir… JEFFREY S BROWER: People think that we control everything they get billed. GEORGE RECKTENWALD: We have contracts where we ordered the towing. There is this ordinance out there for trespass towing, nonconsensual that occurs on this parking lot that they should not be. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you for clarifying that. I appreciate you doing the update on Belvedere. So they still have not turned in a formal application. Have they treated a formal site plan? GEORGE RECKTENWALD: They only turned in a pre-application, which has a conceptual site plan contained in it. We do not have any kind of a real site plan. JEFFREY S BROWER: Clay, you have your hand up. CLAY ERVIN: Because this is under such public scrutiny, I want to make sure that the minerals you are using is great. They have submitted conceptual site plan, it does not have the ability to allow for the project to proceed. It is really just a concept plan that is provided to us, that we provide comments off of. They provided quite a few pages from there permits to DEP. Which doesn't necessarily pertain to all of our requirements. They provided 29 pages of comments, they are inclusive of city of Ormond Beach. They are concerned that we don't have a response deadline. The whole barbaric conceptual site plan is to give you the ability to come in, hear from staff and make the no go decision. And if there is anything you can do for the site plan. That is where we are at. We have not received anything else. There is no formal – final site plan application in at this time. That would be the next step. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you for the clarification. Before you go away. MATT REINHART: I have a question maybe for you or George. How long ago was that given to? CLAY ERVIN: I want to say end of February. MATT REINHART: Is that something that can be put on the website? So it is on the individual's over here? CLAY ERVIN: It is on the website now. MATT REINHART: OK thank you. GEORGE RECKTENWALD: It's because there has been a gap of time. As he said, I believe there are probably in some sort of decision-making mode on their own, here, somewhere else, waiting on what that $10 million deal may be out there. And maybe where else in the state they might want to locate. My understanding, of course, for the original discussion, there are multiple sites. JEFFREY S BROWER: Hopefully we will learn something and see where they are going after the governance has a budget. Is there a deadline for that? Does anybody know? GEORGE RECKTENWALD: It's quite a way of. He does have a deadline. It is on June... DAVID SANTIAGO: (Away from mic) JEFFREY S BROWER: Gotcha. Last thing I want to bring up is rather than do and proclamation, just to announce it, on May 2 is the national day of Prayer. If there was ever a time when we needed prayer in America, it is no. Although, I guess we always do. May 2, National Day of Prayer, we have a local event that anyone can attend. May 2, 7 PM. At First Baptist. Is that you church? No? He worships at corrections. (Laughter) JEFFREY S BROWER: 7 PM, First Baptist, it is right across the street from the fleamarket on Daytona. It is 10 First Baptist Parkway. Again, across from the large fleamarket. I would just encourage as many people as possible to participate in that or with your own church, with your own family. We definitely could use prayer. Jake Johansson? JAKE JOHANSSON: Sir, I have a question from the previous – George or Clay can enter it. Does Belvedere has no obligation now that they got all our comments? They have no obligation interest or not obligation, not that they would. But they could. So, I think that is important that the-- there might be going that we are not going there, we will never know. So, I don't think that is the case, but like I said, in normal circumstances, whence somebody gets that many comments, they might go, they don't want to be in any part of that. It is a breach too far, they're going to move 4. GEORGE RECKTENWALD: We don't know what's behind her, we don't know what kind of investors they have, or investors are watching saying, they don't want to take the risk, who knows. JAKE JOHANSSON: Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. We are adjourned at 8:41 PM. (End of session)