Volusia County Council Meeting – May 7, 2024 
 
SPEAKER: 
Welcome to the Volusia County Council Meeting. The meeting will begin in 10 minutes. 
 
(Music plays) 
 
SPEAKER: 
Welcome to the Volusia County Council Meeting. The meeting will begin in five minutes. 
 
(Music plays) 
 
SPEAKER: 
Welcome to the Volusia County Council Meeting. The meeting will begin in two minutes. 
 
(Music plays) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
If everybody can find a seat, we will start in 60 seconds. 
 
(Music plays) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Good morning. We will call the May 7, 2024 County Council meeting to order at 9:00 AM. 
 
Just to give you some information of how we will start. In just a moment, I will ask you to stand. If you care to, for the invocation and then for the Pledge of Allegiance. This morning, for the invocation we have Rabbi Paul Falk of the Ariel Congregation in Orange City. Rabbi, why don't you come first and then we will do the Pledge of Allegiance as soon as you're done? 
 
RABBI PAUL FALK: 
(Language unknown to captioner) King Redeemer, Savior and shield. I come before you to begin this day giving thanks to you for the blessings you have poured down on us. We thank you for the ability to live in a place of freedom, a place that we can enjoy, and seek out happiness, seek out those freedoms that are bountifully given to us. We thank you for the blessing of living in this place with so many pieces of creation that are such a blessing to us, day after day. 
 
We left off all of those are crosshairs of the struggles that are happening, let them to your hands at this point, and all that is going on there. We lift of those in front of us that have come to stand and serve in this community, to be protectors, overseers of the resources you have so bountifully blessed us with. We lift them up, we ask you give them wisdom and the strength to go forward for what is best, and guidance in regard to the decisions, the hard ones that need to be made, the incredible role taken on, and give you glory. (Language unknown to captioner) 
 
(Pledge of Allegiance) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Just a you know, I usually say this first. It seemed very time appropriate to have the rabbi here this morning. There is a lot going on in the world, and I was able to speak to him a little bit before the meeting and he assured me that his congregation feels safe, and that says something about Volusia County, and we will pray that that continues. I thank you again for coming. 
 
The invocation is open to all faith groups, in Volusia County. If your faith group would like to participate, just send an email to kgreen@volusia.org, and Karissa will get you all set up to do it. We appreciate the participation. 
 
Would you call the roll, please? 
 
KARISSA GREEN: 
(Roll Call) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you. 
 
Do we have public participation? I don't have any, yet. Before, while we're waiting for that to be walked over, without calling undue attention to it, I would like to...  
 
Don, I hope you don't mind this, I want to let everybody know that you lost your mother last week. One of the hardest things to go through is losing a mother or father. Thankfully, not a child. Just want to let you know that we appreciate you being here today, and you are in our prayers. 
 
OK. I will call your names, as they were turned in in order. You will have three minutes to come up to the podium. Please make sure that the microphone is right in your face so that everyone can hear you, and it can be recorded for all times. Keep that in mind as you speak, you will have three minutes. There is a monitor. There is a clock, three-minute clock, on your monitor and in the overhead large screens. Please keep track of your time.  
 
First, we will begin with Paul Richardson. If you would as you come up tell us what part of the county you are from so your representative knows where you are. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Good morning, my name is Paul Richardson of Deland. I have two things to say today. I want to speak out against the thoroughly un-American ESD after the last hurricane came through. The state of Florida heard me and other citizens. From the Florida West article, Gov. Ron DeSantis signed on (indiscernible) also known as ESG. The legislation, HB 989 expands consumer protections and amend certain roles and response abilities at the state chief financial officer. This is great. I will leave you to read the details of HB 989 for brevity. 
 
ESG has updated with environmental histories and this is why I only use the acronym. I also hope that you consider a resolution also a warning about the danger of ESG to businesses in Volusia County. 
 
On a similar note, FDOT is finally doing something useful. Quote from the article, local article, Volusia County (indiscernible) major makeover from the state. Right now Florida Department of transportation cruiser working on a seven point file mile stretch that runs through Holly Hill, Port Orange in (indiscernible) Beach. This is a great start. 
 
From the article, they are expanding and deepening the channel as well as cleaning it up. Volusia County has been crying out for something like this for sometime now. (indiscernible) West Volusia County if that would help with flooding. 
 
God bless Volusia County, God bless America, (Language unknown to captioner) Israel. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Felicia (unknown name) I did not see you. She must've been here, she turned this in. I will hold it. Jerrica (Name)? 
 
SPEAKER: 
I'm a little nervous. My name is Jerrica (Name), I live at 2093 Halifax Dr. I am third generation living on Tomoko Farms Road, and I have a lot invested in my home, town and slice of country. My home where I am raising my two and five-year-old or half a mile away which is 2640 feet from the proposed motocross site. For reference, that distance is from the Cracker Barrel on international to the Speedway. 
 
I will be a full-time homeschooling mom with my two kids in August. For their school career, their primary place to focus and learn will be at our home. The amount of noise that a few hundred people's 40+ bikes every single day would really just change our lives. We know that this entails much more than just a four hour race window, this is starting bikes... Sorry, guys.  
 
Flooding is a huge issue where we are at. We have been out there for over 14 years but on Halifax for four years. I have had some pretty devastating flooding. That is to be addressed before any of this stuff comes to play, in her front yard and backyard. 
 
During an interview with the new journal Don Dempsey describe, "We are now destination state. A lot of families come from North, you know, up North. Wanting a place to ride, and they have nowhere to go. I think Volusia is more than right for a facility that will allow this."  
 
This is no longer about our neighbors, this is about other people, not the residents who reside here and have been for a long time. This again sounds like a wonderful idea, I think this is something that we should have. My kids are going to be the first people to ride with their dirt bikes, but it should not be in our backyard. 
 
My question to you, why is there no other proposed site in the beautiful Volusia County such as Barboursville, DeLeon Springs, Deltona, Deland, Emporia, Lake Helen, Orange City, Pearson, Astor? Why not? 
 
When I met Don Dempsey at the open house on April 23, I asked him, "Would you want this in your backyard?" He said, "No." This speaks volumes for someone whose kids rode. He knows what this entails.  
 
This is going to be devastating for our country life, our peace, everything that we worked so hard for. We were told to get a career, buy a home, buy land, be in country, and I ask that you guys think about this, for their motocross track I want for my kids, for my sanity, to homeschool my children, for the beautiful Volusia County I want to stay in. 
 
(Applause) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
John (unknown name). 
 
SPEAKER: 
Good morning. I am not as prepared as my wife (Laughs) I want to talk about the motocross track going in. 
 
Back in 2009, there was v21 watershed management proposal that was supposed to be going on with all the issues with the flooding after the town's West went in, that used to be all percolating land. For us out there.  
 
I've been out there for 20 years, I am wondering why this is being put in our backyard when we have not figured out the flooding situation? We moved out there for a reason, a lot of tax dollars, insurance that is extra for land. We went out there for peace and quiet, and if this goes in, it is going to be not only the noise, but now the flooding issues. That is the main concern for me, other than the noise, is going to be we are already inches away from destroying house, and when you get a big rainstorm.  
 
I have been neighbors that have been there for 50 years and have never seen water under driveway, but the last 15 years, it has been just getting more and more going on. So, that is what I got to say. I think we got other people that are going to talk, and I appreciate it. Thank you. 
 
(Applause) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Judy Campbell. 
  
SPEAKER: 
Is there more than one Judy Campbell? 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK. Not Judy Campell, Tricia (unknown name). OK.  
 
SPEAKER: 
 Good morning, my name is Tricia (unknown name) I live on Halifax Dr. in Port Orange. 
 
I'm not against the motocross project, we are against the location due to the fact that it is enclosed approximate a Halifax Drive in the neighboring homes. The feasibility study does not mention the close proximity of Halifax Drive and we are wondering why it does not mention it. 
  
The other thing it does not mention is the watershed, where is all the water going? Once the project is and complete, if it does go on the proposed site. Halifax Drive has a tendency to flood. We, ourselves, receive 6 inches of water in our building, everything in the building destroyed. The insurance company's are leaving the state of Florida due to the fact of the amount of damage the current storms are causing and limiting what they are paying and they're putting a lot of the cost on the homeowners. 
 
What is going to happen if there is increased flooding on Halifax Drive and insurance companies do not want to pay? Who is going to foot the bill? It's expensive to live there – I, myself, pay nearly $12,000 in taxes to live there. 
 
The noise pollution – we are approximately 6.6 miles away from the NASCAR track and we can hear every race that goes on. We are 7.8 miles away from the New Smyrna Beach track and we can hear all of the races.  
 
I am sorry, am I interrupting? Thank you. 7.8 miles away from the new Smyrna Beach track. This will be less than 1/4 mile away from my front door. How is a sound barrier going to help? We can hear all the traffic on 95. 
 
So how are they going to help prevent the noise pollution? Then we have the issue of lights. There will be light pollution with all the lights needed for the 50 RV spots that you are proposing in addition to the three tracks that you are proposing. 
 
Soil. We are concerned about soil erosion and conserving the soil. Where is all that soil coming from to keep the track maintained? Where is that going to come from? The city of Port Orange has all of their wells on there. 
 
How are you going to prevent leakage from oil and gas contaminants going into the ground and preventing from getting into the wells for the city of Port Orange? None of that is addressed in the feasibility study. Why is that? 
 
The other concern is I have a neighbor who lives – 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
You are out of time. I am sorry. 
 
SPEAKER: 
OK, that is fine. I am sorry. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Good job, thank you. So, Judy Campbell is not speaking? 
 
SPEAKER: 
(Indiscernible) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
I have a card for you. 
 
SPEAKER: 
My name is Judy Campbell, I am a resident of Tomaco Farms village. I am concerned about the motocross track. I am not against motocross, I am concerned about having a commercial facility in my backyard. Before this would be voted on for this location, our hope is that you will do the feasibility study to see about the watershed and see about how the parking lot that is backed up onto the property of Halifax, how the lighting will affect the residents there. 
 
We have many concerns. We have retained an attorney, Dennis (Name). He unfortunately was unable to be here today. But we hope that the county will do more studies. You can certainly believe that we will be conducting our own studies too to see about the feasibility. Thank you. 
 
(Applause) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Elana Craft?  
 
SPEAKER: 
Good morning, my name is Elana Craft and I am here to just shed some light on your double standards. Five of you were so worried about being sued by Belvedere for imposing legal moratorium that you betrayed a whole community of people and voted against this much-needed measure. 
 
I want to believe that your concern about the financial liability was sincere but it is really hard to when the same group of five now pushing for 10 million publicly funded motocross facility. 
 
This comes with a much greater financial burden and future liability. I am here not because I am against autocross facilities, as has been mentioned. In fact, I believe having a privately funded one in Volusia County away from homes would be a wonderful addition to this area. 
 
I have good friends who love this sport. I am here because I really don't like double standards. Please do not close your eyes to the following legal risks associated with government-funded motocross facilities. 
 
Lawsuits alleging negligence if a writer or spectator is injured due to unsafe track conditions, inadequate maintenance or for not enforcing safety rules. Lawsuits related to injuries caused by hazards on the property such as improperly maintained jumps or obstacles. 
 
Lawsuits related to negligent supervision or inadequate instructions. Lawsuits by environmental groups or concerned citizens, alleging that government-funded motocross facility is causing environmental harm. Such as soil erosion, water pollution, or disturbance of wildlife. 
 
Lawsuits by neighbors such as the ones who spoke, living near motocross facilities, alleging that noise is exceeds local ordinances. You see, everything comes at a cost. It is the matter of priorities. 
 
The way you have handled these two issues, the fuel terminal and motocross facility, you have clearly shown is where your priorities lie. You have shown us you don't really care about the fact that you are causing thousands of people, young and old, daily distress by closing your eyes to the dangers associated with an open-ended heavy industrial district close to homes. 
 
It has been almost 90 days, yes we are counting, since the infamous February 6 moratorium vote. What have you done in the 90 days to fix the negligent, open-ended district? Absolutely nothing. 
 
Nothing whatsoever. In fact, you did not even bat an eye Mr. Santiago canceled the zoning workshop at the 11th hour with no explanation whatsoever about what was so important that a critical workshop that had been in the book for months was now canceled. 
 
Your actions speak louder than words and the people of Volusia are listening. So, in conclusion, please do your job and fix the heavy industrial district in Volusia County. Thank you. 
 
(Applause) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Jon Nicholson. 
 
SPEAKER: 
A couple of things, one, driving here – I passed over a bridge on 95. At what point is that on our schedule? I went through this with the city, it is a bridge on LPGA that caused massive traffic jams because I knew that was going and, once the traffic goes – any repair or any change is going to make it even more massive backups. 
 
Guess what? I told you the last land on the ISP, LPGA was going to be developed soon. It is coming down. We have gone through everything in it has been approved for two votes on commission. They are building on ISP and PGA. 
 
There are two projects going in, assessed one is being discussed today with regards to motocross. There is a lot going in on this road and regarding motocross, you have 1600 acres there. Why does this facility have to be built right across from the only residence of those 1600 acres? 
 
I mean, it doesn't make sense. I understand they were looking at location and it is high but I went out to the meeting and God, was it packed. A lot of residents of Volusia. When I drove in, I looked to the right where I would like to have it, because there are no residents. There is one three quarters of a mile down the road, one. 
 
There are dozens across the street from this location. I was told you can't because it is swampland. It is all full of pine trees. I have never seen a swamp full of pine trees. So, I am guessing that would be a better location than this one right across from a bunch of residents. 
 
Affordable housing, you're going to hear that. Alright? I am asking you, at this point, to look at your affordable housing and tell the public. Because I really have not heard where the need is. 
 
When I talked to some, it is probably for senior citizens. A lot of them came before and were in a trailer park. Rent was so high they were kicked out. The shelter says they have 14 kicked out of trail parks. Senior citizens. At this point in their life, to me, that is an issue. Alright? 
 
Secondly, what you do with kids that age out of foster care? There is a little thing that you have got to come from any marks or whatever it is facility, where did they go? You don't want to put them in a bad situation, you want to give them the most help you can. 
 
You have got to find out, tell us where the need is because apparently you're doing really well on affordable housing. But the question is: are we doing and often the right location, right need? I will see you at the end of the meeting. Goodbye. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Christian Brown. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Good morning councilmembers, I am not speaking to a line item this morning. I appreciate you giving me three minutes to speak. I have been in Daytona for about 30 years now. I am here to represent catalyst global youth initiatives. 
 
It is a nonprofit that has been active for about 14 years now, active with youth empowerment. We have had mentors in Volusia County schools for over 10 years and we have had summer programs for our youth here in Volusia County for the last 10 years. 
 
You may be familiar with the YETI grant that was being administered through career source in Volusia County. It was allowing our high schoolers between the ages of 15 to be in career development programs. That grant has since dried up and career facilitators are no longer facilitating that, it is going to another area outside of our county. 
 
So, I am here to represent the interns who were active for the last four years of that program. I have had the privilege of being able to be the facilitator for the professional development program for about three. This would be the fourth for myself. 
 
We are out of funding and we are here today to request funding from the County Counsel. No program such as this exists in high schools throughout Volusia County. This is an opportunity for our young people to be trained with real-world skills that they need in order to be successful in the job world, those who may not be college-bound. 
 
Not all of our youth are college-bound. Those that needs these types of skills, learning how to interview. Learning how to have a cover letter and a resume. Learning how to address professionally during an interview. 
 
Learning how to carry yourself properly when you are actually meeting with an employer. These are skills that, unfortunately, when they graduate from high school, they are without. It is impeding their progress. These individuals are future constituents and, also, future taxpayers. Future homeowners. 
 
What we are asking for is for the county to invest in our youth so they will have a fighting chance once they get out of high school so they will able to be prepared to get career positions that they have. 
 
Especially those who may not be college-bound. You know, this will assist them with getting vocational positions. Getting counsel, county jobs. City jobs. Not just here in the Deland area, Daytona, Orange city, Daytona Beach. Handling four different cities. On average, we were helping... thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you sir, good job. Amanda Balboa? You weren't telling me, where you? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Not yet! My name is Amanda Balboa, and with the service and telling. Also with the towing Association. The towing community was present about two weeks ago in an attempt to get on the agenda in regards to an rate increase for nonconsensual towing in Volusia County. 
 
There was, in the closing comments, a few statements we felt could use some clarification. It was mentioned that we were referencing trespass towing which would be the private property towing. That is actually not what we were referring to. 
 
We do not do that type of towing, we are referring to police sanctioned towing. Arrest and seeds tags, etc. It was stated that the contracts go out for competitive bid, which they do. However, the only rates that change are the ones we pay each municipality as a towing rate. Those rates have not changed since 2002. 
 
We were also for some reason compared to other counties which we are not close to in proximity or in population. Since we are being compared to them, I provided the rates today young ladies this morning for your reference and also included Palm Beach County as well. 
 
They do charge a significantly higher amount than us. I'm not sure where the suggestion came that we are in line because we are not. 60-65 vehicles per day. My zone in Volusia County tows 12-14 per month. 
 
There is a significant difference, of course. The differences here I need to keep people on payroll no matter what, how or rainwater, we need to respond within 20 minutes. I pay people which comes out of the prophet that we would be charged. 
 
No, it is 2024, people are not working for free, of course. You're not paying the same for a gallon of milk that you did 25 years ago. We are asking that the dialogue is opened up and I am willing to communicate in any way or be a liaison in any way. Meeting, email, phone. However it is done, we just need to get on the agenda, please. Thank you. 
 
(Applause)  
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you. Waylon (unknown name) 
 
SPEAKER: 
Good morning, everyone. My name is Waylon (unknown name), Deland Florida, VP of the Deland and West Volusia Chamber of Commerce, chairman of the Volusia County Affordable Housing Advisory Committee, past president of Our Wonderful Main St., Deland, and president of many other organizations in the community. A little context before I go. 
 
I also want to state that I do believe in capitalism, before we get into this. I am going to read, as opposed to just speaking. 
 
If we do not, as a county, and a community, take serious action regarding housing and its affordability, including the incentives for the development of affordable housing, we will continue to see a rise in homelessness, and households becoming unstable. This will affect our taxes, overall, as it will affect the healthcare system, transportation system and the education system, the private sector and more. 
 
We will see continued increase in substance abuse, and related deaths, not to mention the emotional mental health aspects that come with instability due to the rising costs of housing, and instability of homelessness in our area. According to the Alice report, which stands for asset Limited income constrained employed, basically the working poor, this does not take into consider on employment rates which would drive the numbers up about 7 to 10% in our local community.  
 
In 2007 report showed Volusia County had a 36.2% poverty rate threshold. We are currently at 46% threshold with a median income of $50,000. The economy and the market have not corrected themselves, for almost 20 years. Our large politicians, they are not going to change this. While it is the responsibility and moral duty of our government, overall, at-large, but it is especially the responsibility of our local government, to act for those in need in our community, equitably, not equally. 
 
The rising cost of insurance, healthcare, daycare, grocery, housing and more are forcing people out of their units into a state of chaos. The market has not correct itself in nearly 20 years. When will you take actions? 
 
Our Statue of Liberty states, "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, yearning to break free. The wretched, refused of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tossed to me. I lift my lamp beside the golden door. This is the American way." 
  
We can do this, but it takes compassion, dedication and yes, it even takes compromise. We are responsible... To make community healthy, holistic and housed. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you. 
 
(Applause) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Elizabeth Pompeii, pardon me? Elizabeth Pompeii? I thought that is what I said.  
 
SPEAKER: 
I am not not as prepared as some of the others but I have a passion I want to speak about today. I am Elizabeth Pompeii, I live in Halifax Drive, District 2. 
 
I am here about the motocross we are exacerbated about the proposal for this. I have called about the flooding we have in our area, I have spoke to you when time at a meeting about the flooding in our area. This is going to compound it. 
  
There are couple of things I have a question about. In 2009 there was a local plan in place for the Tomoko Farms village that protected our agricultural environment. Is that still in place? Does this motocross fall into that plan? I don't think so. I think it is going to be detrimental to our way of living. 
 
A question, but the local plan, somebody mentioned the feasibility. Why are we going to spend more money on this? I would have never known about the open house that had been at the landfill where more than 200 people showed up, some were motocross people but most were Volusia County. Doubting (unknown name), has motocross, why do we have to build one here? I'm not opposed to the BMX you guys do have on the agenda today, and I understand the motocross came through on the back skirts of this BMX proposal. 
 
They don't have a bunch of noise going on for the BMX. The noise, the flooding, flooding. Flooding is the biggest issue, and if somebody else spoke, we have learned that place was purchased by Volusia County years ago for watershed. I don't understand why we are not making a full – do something with our money, to make that area take care of the flooding in our vicinity, and there is going to be more. 
 
The growth that is getting ready to be built down on the end of Tomoko Farms Road, at I4 that's going to have hundreds of acres developed. Anyway, flooding, flooding, flooding, and the noise. I give my objection here to this proposal for the motocross, whenever it comes up, it is very difficult to find out on your agendas when something is going to happen.  
  
As the one lady said, we have an attorney, and he was told it was not on the agenda and on Friday he was told that it is. And now here it is, now it's not. Very difficult to find out where we can give our voice on such a thing when you actually voting on it. 
 
(Bell chime) 
 
SPEAKER: 
I want to bring up the apartments...  
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you. Felicia (unknown name), I saw you come in. 
 
SPEAKER: 
We come to you, as the adults of the community, as I am, to support our youth and their journey to adulthood. We did do three years that Mr. Brower was talking about with the support of the YETI funds that's not available anymore. And I don't understand as a community, why we don't see important enough that during the summer we have these young people occupy in productive activities. 
  
What we did over the past three years is exactly what Mr. Brown has said, these young people have graduated from high school. Some of them are working for the hospitals, some of them are in the colleges, some of them are in the military, and some of them are in the trades programs, as well. 
 
Come on, guys. We got to do better. Give them something to do during the summer with supervision. They they were not shadowing anyone, they were working for the hospitals, for the county, as well, for the food distribution programs. These kids were active. If you do not give them something to do, they are going to find something to do.  
 
In fact, the predators are going to find them, and give them something to do. You know what a predator is, right? Alright. I don't want that. 
 
What I am saying to you, is help us. This summer, have the funds to support 33 youth as we have done the past three years. I actually have the documents, I'm so sorry. The Votran was late to pick up my mom so I'm doing the best I can. Please, I need your help to do this. It's not a lot of money. Help us. We can still put the program together for the summer and have these kids active. Thank you. 
 
(Applause) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you. Michelle (unknown name). 
  
SPEAKER: 
Good morning, everyone. I know we talk about a lot of things, and I'm probably the last person you want to see stand before you. We talk about improving our county and things like that. But we also forget about people that are being hurt from mandates, working at hospitals or being in the military. We took this, we abide by our government and we took this vaccine. 
  
From it, I have chronic inflammation, demyelination, polyneuropathy, and vascular issues. This past year, I got worse and I have micro clotting. This year, I was on disability, I am waiting for Social Security, disability. 
 
Advent decided to terminate me. Now, the infusions that I take that cost $15,000 a month, because I have an autoimmune issue, and it helps me do my everyday living, it is now taken away from me. I am over a month overdue, and I am still trying to find insurance and things like that. 
 
But, people that have lived a good life, have worked and observed in the community because I am seven generations here in Volusia County, we are told that we need to get on food stamps, that we need to get on Medicaid. But our injuries are real. You will not see us on the news, you will not see us on the social media because were censored by the government.  
  
Until people don't listen to me because I yell, I don't yell, I'm asking for help not just for me for other people. There's another person in Volusia County, Lindsay, we have served on the roundtable of DeSantis, as well as (unknown name) and they have cut off communication with us. Were we used as political props? I don't know. 
 
We deserve more. We should have our disability turned in quickly. We should be on Medicare. Advent also has long COVID where they study, I am vaccine injured, they refuse to treat me. I have to go to Alabama. I'm not asking for help for just me, I am asking for help for others. 
  
The only people that help us are react19.org, a nonprofit organization. There's also real reactions in the Hope House, hope for humanity because they are working on things to help give free treatment. They have no resources. I am asking for your help. 
  
(Bell chime) 
 
SPEAKER: 
Find other ways to be don't have to be on the street. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you, Michelle. That ends the public comment for this part of the meeting. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
A point of personal privilege. You have mentioned to the audience we typically do not respond. If you could mention that to them. So they know we are not ignoring them. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Sometimes it is uncomfortable, sitting up here listening to personal issues, and all the important issues you bring up. And you look at us, and you think we are a bunch of dullards, that we don't care about you. 
  
It's a rule established for the Council, mostly for time, to get as many people in here to speak as possible. If we don't respond to you, or you can go on all day, just for the one last issue. There is a lot there. 
 
But your needs are dealt with, often time before you leave the room, one of the county staff will corral you, and get the information they need. I guarantee – I can't guarantee for everybody, but pretty sure each of the councilmembers when they hear something in their district, they will reach out to you themselves. Which is why we have these, with your email, and your phone numbers. 
 
Please don't think you're being ignored, you are not. Do you have anything else you'd like to add, Mr. Santiago? 
  
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Sometimes we address these things and counsel comments, at the end, which I intend to. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
So stay until 11. Hopefully it will not be that late. Thank you. 
 
I'm really not allowed to call on people in the public. You can fill out a form to speak. I'm sorry, what was your name? 
 
KARISSA GREEN: 
Mr. (unknown name) I believe you are speaking on agenda item 5, which is what your form says? 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
I have your card, but it said item five, that you wanted to wait till item five. If you didn't want to wait for item 5? You did or didn't? If I call you then? It's as item 5 at the top, maybe staff wrote it. I apologize, I am really not arguing with you. 
 
Would you like to speak now? Alright, please speak. Eric (Name) in Port Orange? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Everybody is mentioning the things I wanted to say. Flooding is probably our number one issue. I am not opposed to motocross for kids to have a place to go, but it should not be close to a neighborhood where we are.  
 
Noise is going to be a problem. Big problem. We sit in our backyard, it is very quiet. That will go away. Traffic. We will have increased traffic. When the Daytona 500 is in town, 415 is two lanes. 
 
So, we are going to increase traffic, we are not going to be able to get to 92. I mean, it will be a nightmare. Not to mention, the studies, what is it going to do all the values of our homes? I moved out of Broward County four years ago to have peace and quiet. 
 
I am not going to be able to sell my house, selling peace and quiet. That is what I have to say. Please, don't approve this. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you. 
 
(Applause) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
And that brings us to item 1, thank you all who participated in the public participation.. Item 1 is a consent agenda. Does any Council member has an item they would like to pull for comment or a vote? 
 
SPEAKER: 
One thing, H for discussion, I don't want to pull it, I just want to discuss it. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK, (coughs) pull just for discussion and questions. 
 
SPEAKER: 
At this time, Chairman, I make a motion to approve the agenda. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Motion to approve the entire agenda, second by David Santiago. 
 
KARISSA GREEN: 
You do have a public comment for item L. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
And for item L? And who is that? 
 
KARISSA GREEN: 
I do not know his name, but it is this gentleman right here. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Jackie Small, thank you. How could I forget you. Wanted to speak to item L? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Yes, I wanted to speak to item L and support and encourage you to (Name) Drive in Port Orange. I am here to encourage you to vote yes on the agenda item project on the construction that is $7.8 million. Faith is so excited to see our county invest and bringing matching funds from private investment and federal dollars. $7.8 million investment will leverage an amazing return on investment. 
 
Faith has been pushing the County Counsel to invest in more affordable housing and we are grateful to see the county move forward on projects such as this. Thank you for your leadership in our community. 
 
As taxpayers in Volusia County, we believe in this project and see it as a good investment of our tax dollars. Please support the staff proposal for more affordable housing and thank you for the opportunity to speak. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you, sir. Councilman Jake Johansson? 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Thank you, I want to clarify for the public that this is not particularly the agenda item where we discussed the $7.8 million gap funding impact. Just the construction of a previously approved financing of rehabilitation services and community systems. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
That is correct. Your information stands and is well taken, we understand your support. So, let's have the vote on the consent agenda. The motion was to approve it as presented. All in favor, say aye. Any opposed? And the motion carries 7-0. 
 
If we wired, could have someone come speak to item H? Or did you have a question you wanted to propose first? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Staff. Thank you, Mr. chair. 
 
CYRUS CALLUM: 
Thank you, Mr. chair. Cyrus Callum, Aviation and Economic Resources. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Thank you, last time this was on the agenda, I had a similar poll for discussion. Thanks for the update. It is nice to see the trends on how the state is going and how it comes down into our cities and incorporated areas. 
 
I wanted to talk about and if we could propose the Council also, I want a hopeful present on wages for the Council? It seems like we are kind of maybe in the middle of the pack, statewide, speaking generally. 
 
But I would like to see if we could have discussions in the future or guidance from staff as to what targeted industries that we could look at, that we can raise the wages in Volusia County? 
 
I think that should be a focus of ours. And I think there is a pretty big gap between us and seminal. Do you feel, I see a lot of construction happening in areas. Let me ask you this question, do you feel that there are opportunities out there for us to raise the average wage in Volusia County? 
 
CYRUS CALLUM: 
Absolutely, absolutely. And in this space industry which is something I have been working very closely with team Volusia and also to see your business alliance as well as staff for Volusia County. We are really looking at ways to close the gap. Of course, our neighbors in the South, they have a hold on that and we have been getting some inquiries from businesses who want to kind of spread their footprint and look at opportunities to develop in our county. 
 
We have definitely been seeking opportunities to increase wages that way. We have our partners, of course. Riddle has been phenomenal in bringing a spotlight on that type of industry as well. 
 
Definitely this has been something we have been working on and in the short term, we will start to see some businesses without focus coming to our community. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I want to add the idea, this is popped into my head now, Southern and Southeast Volusia County has the greatest opportunity to benefit from this high-paying aerospace jobs. We have the project down there, a very large project happening down there. 
 
This is mostly a community and I wonder if there are opportunities to explore with that development, commercial opportunities on the southernmost point of that to try to attract some of those jobs or manufacture whatever it is in the southern point? 
 
If there is anyone in the Council who does not like that idea, maybe chime in. I think we have huge opportunities over there. This has been a good partner in responding to the County in different inquiries. 
 
Maybe that is one but we need to go after it and think outside the box. 
 
CYRUS CALLUM: 
I will tell you another conversation. I have been having conversations as well about that very situation. We are trying to be a lot more intentional instead of having businesses come to us. We are actually doing more outreach to let them know that we do have, and want to be, in the game in terms of bringing that type of industry here. 
 
So, the discussions are being had. And, I think, sooner than later we will start to see some results start to pan out. We do have land at the airport is on the verge of being shovel ready. 
 
That is going to help significantly. But definitely in southeast volusia as we start to reach out to industries that may be outgrowing what they are doing in our neighbors to the south, there may be some prime opportunity for us to take advantage. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Two more questions. I think we asked this last time also on the unemployment rate. Just slightly, .2 or something. Your answer last time had something to do with new entrants into Volusia County. That is still the trend? 
 
CYRUS CALLUM: 
That is still the case. There is a slide in the presentation and factual Q will take place on the 17th of this month, our new economic development director is going to take the helm away from you to present the information for you. So if you haven't made your reservation to attend, I encourage you to do so. 
 
There is some good information in the report as a whole. Our available labor force has never been higher, which is great. The unemployment rate is inching up ever so slightly. The labor force due to the net migration. 
 
People are still moving into Volusia County and still moving into the state of Florida as well. We are all building from that influence. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Last question, I know it is not in your presentation but I also asked this one. Can you tell me a brief update of Avelo airlines? I read a lot about what is happening in the news, how is this benefiting Volusia County? 
 
CYRUS CALLUM: 
I am pleased to report that Avelo Airlines has added another flight into our market. They are doing a Monday, Wednesday, Friday opportunity. Their loads have been phenomenal – well over 85%. 
 
I have actually had staff to another economic impact report on how that has been up in our community. I will come back with those numbers for specifics. But they are doing very, very strongly. 
 
As a matter of fact, there is some discussion about potentially having Wilmington, Delaware come back. I do want to be cautious about that because there are some other markets we are looking at in the Northeast that I would like to see, that I feel would generate a higher yield and lower risk factor that will benefit us as a whole. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
When you come back with that update, can you include whether they have tapped into the funds we have allotted for that? 
 
CYRUS CALLUM: 
Absolutely, absolutely. I know for the Wilmington market, they did tap into the funds. For the New Haven market, there have been months where they have actually given us money back. Give back it would be nice to see that. 
 
CYRUS CALLUM: 
Absolutely. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Before you live, I don't know if either of these questions are for you but Councilman Johansson? 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
David mentioned raising the average wage. Talked a lot about bringing things in. An article recently in the news about Embry and hypersonic. Hypersonic just sounds increased wage to me. 
 
CYRUS CALLUM: 
Yes. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Daytona State pivoting to respond to workforce development at the buildings out West for nursing and law enforcement. So, I believe our universities and colleges are coming forward. I wish our... I wish our local high schools would move back into that trade business, but a little slower than I would like. 
 
But, my question is, how much in southeast Volusia, how much industrial land is there for this area of South Volusia to develop and have people start to migrate up north? 
 
CYRUS CALLUM: 
That is a really good question. Without having specifics on the acreage we have available, of course we have a lot of green area, a lot of historical trees. We will have to create a lot of that activity with growth management to see how to responsibly develop that area. There's a lot of acreage opportunities, we have to connect a lot of sewer and water and utilities to the area, too. The opportunity is prime, if we plan appropriately, and responsibly. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Got it. 
 
CYRUS CALLUM: 
I will get you the numbers. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
I appreciate that. One of the separations that I hate, but I get rewarded with an explanation every time I mention it, the silo of what is team Volusia does, and what our chambers do. Trying to recruit, and grow from within. 
 
One of the things that we, as a county, and the cities can do, is to support our chambers and supporting local business to raise the wages of the people who are here by helping small business. Don't go to Amazon and buy a book when you can go to a local bookstore. Thank you, very much. Sorry! You're welcome, sir. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
One more, Troy Kent? 
  
TROY KENT: 
Cyrus, I don't have a questions I have some comments for the Council and I want to take Mr. Santiago for pulling this for discussion. This is a healthy discussion – to have from time to time, and we get the updates from staff. 
  
I could not agree with you more, buy it local, absolutely. To me, when I look at the line graph on the presentation H – 3, it makes me think of the largest exports of Volusia, our children. The jobs they desire are not here. I had a discussion with my baby boy last night, and he'd have a fit if he heard me publicly called him my "baby boy". He is 17, and is graduating in three weeks from high school. 
  
Part of our discussion last night was about this, which is, when you finish your college studies, where do you think you want to live? I want to help him want to come back, to Volusia. We talked about that. 
 
Back to slide H – 3, looking at the data from 2010 to 2022, Volusia is well below Florida's wage, very much behind Florida's wage. The trend has been pretty regular, until about 2020 - 2022, and that gap increased even more. Volusia has fallen behind even more. (unknown name), and Putnam is below, (Name) Lake is a little below us but then you have St. John's Seminal Renard and Port Orange which is well above Volusia. 
 
I thank you for pulling this, this is a discussion that we, as elected leaders of Volusia, sometimes get beat up... 
 
**Audio lost** 
 
**Audio back** 
 
TROY KENT: 
Thank you, Councilman Dempsey. I am going to try. 
  
Looking at that data, to me, it amplifies the point that sometimes we get beat up whenever you we look at an incentive for a company to locate here, to bring higher wage paying jobs. But, it is desperately needed in Volusia County. The numbers do not lie, and I love data over time, line graphs, bar graphs, they do a really good job of showing a true picture of where we are. 
  
I am thankful for CEOs for Charlie (unknown name), with (unknown name), who decided that Volusia County will be his home, and for (unknown name) bringing more high-paying and better jobs. I am thankful for that. 
 
I will just close with, again, Mr Johansson, spot on. Buy it local, if and when you can. Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Santiago. 
  
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I wanted to see what comments came out with pulling this out. I wanted to go a step further. We have a great person at the helm, and the Council has to give him more specific direction because it is a broad, to say that we need to raise wages.   
 
Osceola County as an example, they have had the vision to become the chip manufacturing capital for Florida. Their council set a goal as this is what they are going to do, strategic plan, how to go to the state and private sector. They have seen some and enormous results there. The County manager has been taking a lot of lumps and beat up for the money they have invested in it but they are starting to see the results in it.  
 
Where I am going, it will take a more specific conversation of the council with data and trends and envision more specific to Cyrus and his team and George and saying this is what we want to go after, and this is what it's going to take and what is the net results for it. Maybe a workshop in the future. I will bring it up again. We need to give more guidance of what we want to see, broad, you will see incremental changes and may go along with the rest of the state. 
 
If we want to bridge the gap, that you pointed out clearly, we have to go bolder, if that makes sense, to raise the wages and improve the likelihood here in Volusia County. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Robins? 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Thank you, I believe you are hitting the nail on the head. With the workshop coming up, we can have a much broader discussion in terms of deregulating the local economy encounter inflation, not just in Volusia County or the state of Florida, but across the nation. 
 
Good job with that, and I am looking forward to talking about it, and government getting out of the way so we can pay our workers more. Thanks. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
County manager George Recktenwald. 
  
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
Council needs to weigh in on what ways we want to go. We have been working off of space supply chain, that has really been our targeted industries over the last few years. We have a space overlay. We have other things, utility program for expansion town in the southeast. We have a grant program for that, as well, that was brought forth by the previous economic development team.  
  
We are working on those, and I would really welcome exactly what you're saying, to zero in on some new or updated ideas. I will say, Cyrus has been out there, there is a lot going on, a lot going on with the colleges. I think you will be hearing things this summer along these lines. Definitely, that is a purpose that you said, thanks for bring it up, it is all about economic development and getting good paying jobs and wages. 
 
We are a destination, people want to be here, but how can we direct things to get the right paying jobs to help the community? 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
(indiscernible) 
 
CYRUS CALLUM: 
I am happy to talk about anything that helps the economy. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Part of the discussion is what we are currently doing, and what you are currently doing now, in your economic development department. If, when you drill down on the issue, how do you get high-paying companies here?  
 
One of the ways you can do it is to improve the business environment. I think Mr. Robins just mentioned that. Several people have. And the quality of life here. To draw the new people here, so rather than giving an incentive to one company, we give an incentive to the whole country to be here because it's a safe place to live, we have clean water, we are working on flooding problems, streets are not a mess, they are well-maintained. All of those things. 
 
That helps our local entrepreneurs, as well. You have one of the best programs in the state with the Incubator for developing entrepreneurs, and they stay here. They leave there, and open incredible businesses here. Usually high-tech businesses – not always.  
 
So, it goes both ways. We can wisely spend money on our own community, that lives every boat in the business community, makes it easier for them to do business instead of taking months and months – I am not blaming anybody on staff. You have to follow the law. It takes months sometimes to go through the permitting process, and get everything that you need. That is something that this council has said that they will look at. 
 
Thank you for your report. I just wanted to add that. Entrepreneurs want to live somewhere where there is stuff going on, that is fun, things downtown, where they can get around easily, and walk the streets safely. Thank you. 
 
CYRUS CALLUM: 
Thank you, sir. Thank you, gentlemen. 
  
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Ben Bartlett, what I wanted you to do is kind of give a 30,000 foot view of the Lake Monroe project. We have heard flooding mentioned numerous times already today. Along with flooding, inevitably comes water quality issues because all of the flooding, the floods carry. Tell us why Lake Monroe is important, and how in the world does a baffle box separate nutrients? I would like to public to know. This is a good project. 
 
BENJAMIN BARTLETT: 
Benjamin Bartlett, public works. This requires a certain amount of nutrient reduction from the stakeholders in this project helps us achieve this by installing the baffle boxes, this removes nitrogen and nutrients before it enters the waters of Lake Monroe. 
  
They were constructed long ago before stormwater regulations existed for treatment. They don't go through any retention ponds, they collect the water from the road and discharge them directly in the river. It is in the enterprise Deltona area, land is at a premium so the baffle box allows us to treat the water without having to purchase a bunch of land and construct retention ponds or some like that. 
 
This project is ARPA funded, it was identified as one of the project when we are initially assigned the direct allocation of ARPA money and has been designed and bid out and now it will be going to construction. 
 


JEFFREY S BROWER: 
One last question. Several people here have mentioned buy local, do it local. This project went to a Leesburg company that was in Deland company, that was $20,000 more expensive. What goes into the decisions? It is not just a bottom line? Or is it? 
 
BENJAMIN BARTLETT: 
I would defer to procurement on that, but it is a process that goes to the better. 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
We have federal money in play and local to the feds as the United States of America. We do have a buy local ordinance, but we also include our neighboring counties because a lot of our businesses do not just working Volusia County. If you like, Pam can go over that quick orbit can have a further discussion. 
 
One of the driving factors especially our construction projects is, where is the money coming from? That dictates if we can do any local incentive and most of the times we cannot because if it is state money, and they see the local as the state of Florida. If it's federal money, it's the United States of America. Just keep that in mind. Pam, anything? 
 
SPEAKER: 
You said it all, the only thing that I can say if local did apply for this, because of ARPA funding, Florida is local and is included in this.  
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you. That brings us to item 2, naming of the city Island courthouse. And Jeaniene Jennings will...  
 
JEANIENE JENNINGS: 
Good morning. Jeaneine Jennings, Director of business services. I am here to introduce item 2 which is the naming of our City Island Courthouse. Renaming it to the Steven C Henderson Judicial Center, this is a request that was submitted in our April 4 meeting of last year. 
 
We have worked with the courts and I think Judge (Name) has stepped out but she will be back in that this point, I will turn it over to Danny Robins for some comments. I also want to thank the Henderson family for being here with us today and thank you for taking time out to be here. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Thank you, good job. Council, I want to say thank you for, first and foremost, considering this very impactful and good cause, hearing this case before us today. Judge Henderson was born August 22, 1972. 
 
Military family. Born into a military family at the fair trial base in Spokane, Washington. Henderson earned his undergraduate degree from Brigham Young University and law degree from Florida State University. 
 
A long history of public service. He served as a prosecutor for the judicial court before becoming a judge. He was appointed 2012 to the County bench presiding over family law and then elevated as a circuit judgeship in 2017 by former Governor, Rick Scott. 
 
Judge Henderson passed away on August 25, 2021, while serving the judicial circuit. Keeping courts open and trying to keep Florida free. Steve worked tirelessly and will be remembered not only for his dedication to his beautiful family, but his service to his community as well. For those who do not know, Annex courthouse was built in 1970. 
 
In over 50 years, it has never carried a name. Counsel, I cannot think of a better candidate or leader to dedicate the Annex courthouse to than Steve. With that being said, council, I would like to make an immediate motion to approve this and submit the Henderson name and his legacy into Volusia County history forever. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
Second. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
And the motion is made by Councilman Robins to approve the renaming, second by Matt Reinhart. We do have a member of the public who wants to speak to this, I will call him before we vote. Jon Nicholson. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Jon Nicholson, Daytona Beach side. This is not something that I wanted to speak on, I'm glad you mentioned who he was because I did not know who he was and I have only been here 40 years. The question is, we are supposed to be moving this courthouse, hopefully to Beach Street. What happens? Normally when you tear down the building and move the building, the name doesn't go with it. I am asking why do it now if we anticipate moving the courthouse? We are moving the courthouse 10 years from now? 
 
The judges don't like the layout of the courthouse now existing. If we do move it, are we saying we will move the name with it, if and when it does happen? Secondly, what are we going to do with that location? My city manager keeps asking. "You go to the Council meetings, what are they doing with it?" What are we doing with it? 
 
What happens with the 12/$14 million from FEMA if we don't do anything for 12, 14 years? They just say "OK, we will let you have it in 20 years?" That is a lot of money to not use. That is a great location. 
 
I have been talking to staff about selling that land and the front half of it on beach street for Congress. It would be a great boost for the downtown of Daytona Beach to put condos there. Bodies, first of all. Second, it is the best location on all of Beach Street to put condos. 
 
The location in front of the marina would have housing, it is low income and a lot of crime. This would be great to have that location. I am asking, what are you doing with the land and what happens with the naming? I am guessing that is the best location to put the Annex. When you move it? What are you going to do with the name? Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you. Jeaniene, are you down there? Do you have more, when we are done voting, for the presentation? 
 
JEANIENE JENNINGS: 
I am going to bring up Judge Case for a couple of words. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK and also, the board, I can see down here... 
 
JEANIENE JENNINGS: 
Yes, this is a rendering of the very... This is what will be placed outside of the City Island Courthouse. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Can we get that on camera? "Walk this way," said Steven Taylor. OK. 
 
JEANIENE JENNINGS: 
This is the sign that will go right outside of the City Island Courthouse, renaming it. So I think it is cast in bronze. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK, thank you. 
 
HON LEAH R CASE: 
Good morning, gentlemen. My name is Leah Case, Chief Judge of the Seventh Circuit. I want to give appreciation to the County manager and the assistant or deputy county manager for reaching out to me, regarding the naming of the building. 
 
I think you guys had already vetted it but she called me to see what my thoughts were. I said my thoughts are that it is a County building and the county gets to decide what they name their buildings. The judges do not have a say in it, we should not have a say and it. 
 
But having said that, let me say a little bit about Steve Henderson. I will get a little choked up, excuse me. I was Steve Henderson's boss when we were at the state attorney's office. And I kind of felt like his mentor in a way. He became a county judge and then a circuit judge. You could not ask for a better or a more hard-working judge. 
 
Having said that, I recognize that probably you all have heard from different judges saying, "we have judges who have been long-standing, 30+ years giving service to the community." 
 
That is why the judges stay out of naming county buildings, because that is a County decision. But Steve Henderson served the community well. He was hard-working, he was kind. And he passed away in the middle of COVID. Like so many other people that had to work. 
 
Judges had to work. We had court. He was in Family Court. He had an open courtroom. And so, I think it is a great honor, again, you guys are doing this. So I am here to speak about that and to give you a blessing. 
 
But in no way am I saying you should do one thing or the other. Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you, Councilman Dempsey? 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
Have to watch what I say because the Chief Judge is here and she grades my papers. So, I have got to be candid with everybody, I am not big on naming buildings after politicians and Steve was a politician. 
 
But let me tell you, I am voting in favor of this, just to let you know where I am headed. I knew Steve as a prosecutor when Judge Case was his boss and I knew him as a county judge and a circuit judge. I have practiced in front of him in all three realms.  
 
He was a great guy and had a great demeanor. Oh... Sorry. He... What I liked about him and the reason I'm going on about this is he exemplified what judges should be. He had the best demeanor. I mean, I pulled some antics in front of him as a prosecutor. 
 
Judge Case, Judge Campbell will tell you the stuff I used to pull in her courtroom. I pulled antics in front of Judge Henderson. And he put up with my nonsense and he was always polite. 
 
The thing I remember most about him, is he... Sorry. He would always ask me about my family. Always. "How is your son doing? How is your daughter doing?" Inevitably, the conversation always came up about his family. He was so proud of you guys. And he loves you. 
 
And, like Jeff said, I buried my mom on Sunday at 81 years old. I believe your dad was 49 when he passed? And my heart broke for you guys because you missed out on another 32 years that I got with my mom that you will never have with your dad. So... 
 
I am going along with this, not because he was some great legal scholar, there are plenty of other judges, 30 years senior to him who were equally smart. But I want to see you guys have a memorial for your dad for the next 32 years. And further. 
 
Because, just... My heart breaks for you guys on what you're missing out with your dad because he really, really loves you guys. I am sorry guys. Thanks. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Well, well done. Thank you, Don, for adding that. Anybody else on council have a question or comment before I call for the vote? All in favor of renaming the city Island courthouse the Steven C. Henderson Judicial Center, please say aye. Any opposed? Motion carried 7-0. 
 
And I think it would be fitting for us to stand up and applaud this family. 
 
(Applause) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you boys, is that all boys there? I cannot see the last seat. Any girls? Two girls, very good. Councilman Johansson? 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Jeaniene, or somebody, what is the timeline on when this will be put down and be announced for a ribbon-cutting or something? 
 
JEANIENE JENNINGS: 
We will do a press release, we are just waiting for when we can actually get the casting installed and it is very soon. I will work with community information so we can schedule a proper unveiling. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Give us enough time to schedule, thanks. 
 
JEANIENE JENNINGS: 
Absolutely. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you, thank you. That brings us to item 3, a presentation by Karen McCue, AICPA Director of the East Center Florida regional planning Council.  
 
TARA McCUE: 
Thank you for allowing me to speak for a few minutes around the regional planning Council how we been working with Volusia County for a number of years and highlight the last couple of years and what you can see moving forward. 
 
We are one of 10 regional planning councils across the state of Florida, we are establishing 1962 to support the 8 counties, Volusia County included as well as the 78 partner cities, regional and state partners, as well in addressing issues in regional scale. 
 
When you look at our funding sources, what is really important to highlight is over 70% of our funding sources are from federal and state contracts, and grants. As you can see from the return on investment, when you're looking regional return on investment for the past five years, we are bringing funding into the region to bring a 13 to 1 return on investment. The reason why you are at a 14 to 1 of return on investment. 
 
As a state authorized agency, we do have some requirements that we need to complete every single year. The only one I am going to focus on today further in my presentation is the LAPC, we do a lot of work in Volusia County and work with emergency management. 
 
We like to consider this an extension of local government, so what makes the local government run, many develop it, emergency prepared, economic development like you heard today, we need to make sure that experts and staff reflect that, and are able to provide services and technical support for our partners. 
 
With that little bit of background, I want to talk about where we have been with Volusia County, and where we are going together. Since 2017, every single year we have been engaged with your staff. In 2017 with the TPO and are conducting the 2024 vulnerability assessment to make sure the county is in line with state statute and eligible for funding from the Resilient Florida program. 
 
Looking on the screen, these are copies or covers of other reports and studies we have done. We have worked with the TPO and a variety of departments as well as the office of emergency management, and all projects have been funded from grants, TEP, Florida Sea Grant, national sea greant, and national contracts. 
  
The vulnerability assessment and the power that the county gives to the project as we are working on more than just one. We have just completed Ponce Inlet, Ormond Beach, Edgewater and a number of cities pulling into Volusia and we are working in Brevard County. We are able to streamline the process, so Volusia County can pick up the city of satellite vulnerability assessment and speak the same language and be able to coordinate across jurisdictional lines, Brevard County lines Volusia County to speak the same language and work together to identify projects in ways we can be more resilient especially in light of flooding. 
  
Low impact design is a priority for the county and regional counsel, and we are working with the team, Florida Department of covered grant, on an award-winning project where we looked at your ordinances and provided recommendations to incorporate LID into those in you are working with UF to move forward. We are working on a guidebook and IFAS, we are working together to provide this.  
 
The QR code on the screen you can access the award-winning product, and other products for the opportunity. It was funded through state contract. What we also did was Volusia County staff wanted to make sure they were able to set the stage to have these conversations. Previously we had worked with them through funding from DEP to create resources they could share throughout the community, with stakeholders when they were having workshops about what LID is, nature-based solutions, how they can be used in benefits. On your screen are examples of those. 
  
I was really intrigued with the conversation from your economic development team earlier. We have a strong relationship with the US EDA. The regional planning Council is designated as the economic develop a district for the 8 counties.  
 
This provides the opportunity for the county as well as jurisdictions to obtain money from the federal government and over the past couple of years, Volusia County was on the receiving end of $5 million of infrastructure money for the Daytona international Airport and the research hanger. Especially in southeast Volusia we have been working with some of the jurisdictions down there to coordinate with EDA to get them shovel already in project ready to get money for that.  
 
EDA after Irma and Ian, we have secured to money and they are working with the city of Daytona to recover the resilience project. We like to use the funding and get back to the community we did receive CARES funding from the EDA we were able to work with the partners in southeast Volusia, and to work with them to bring some industries into the region. 
 
Volusia County is one of our 44 partners for our regional resilience collaborative. I am not going to go into everything that this amazing group is doing because that is a presentation in of itself. What I really want to do is highlight the partnerships and the value that this program of the regional planning Council brings. We are bringing in million-dollar grants from some of the federal partners including the Department of Defense and the EPA as well as working with some of the brainpower behind projects such as Stetson and the University of Central Florida. 
 
We are able to bring together funding as well as technical assistance into our region, to help priorities move forward within counties in the region as a whole. 
  
I do want to thank Councilmember Johansson for speaking at our leadership conference that we had in October at the Kennedy Space Center. 
 
Local emergency preparedness, this is our local grant that grows every single year. Through the program were able to update plans, teach training courses, do exercises. We have a great staff that works very closely with your first responders and emergency management.  
  
Last year, through regional trainings, we were able to train 53 students from Volusia on a variety of different topics. They participated in a regional CFIX cybersecurity tabletop exercise and the pictures are from the exercise. We are working with emergency management team to have a functional exercise as well as tabletop exercise, and we are updating the local mitigation strategy and floodplain management, five-year plan. 
  
One of our biggest events that we hold that we are proud of that we bring nearly 700 individuals into the county is our Hazardous Material Symposium. We hold every year in Daytona Beach. It is a three-day event. We cannot express our gratitude to Volusia County and their fire rescue for hosting our competition on their training facilities, and volunteering their time to help set that up, and score and be a part of that competition. 
 
Through our LEPC funding we are able to pay for and sponsor 16 first responders from Volusia County to attend. This QR code goes to our video, and it's a video of the symposium, you get a feel for just how important this training is for all of our first responders around hazmat. 
  
One thing we are also proud of with our EM team, is they are here to assist in response. Not only within our region, but outside of the region. We are part of the all hazard incident management team along with Volusia County and others within our region. We get deployed or they get deployed in their deployed to Hamilton County after Idalia, as well as across the nation for other events. 
 
We like to recognize the great work in the region. We brought back our Diamond Awards, 2024 was our second annual Diamond Awards celebration. In 2025 I hope we get to see some great work coming out of Volusia County and partner jurisdiction so we can celebrate your successes. 
 
Being part of the regional planning Council means we have an amazing Board and I cannot think of Councilmember Robins, Johansson, for being part of the board coming to the meeting. They get to engage with elected leaders from seven other counties, and participate in the board, so they can see what is going on in other areas, and East Central Florida. This is one of the examples we went to visit Seminole State College to see how the college programs are being run, for the upcoming workforce. 
  
Some members of our board participate on our Florida regional Council, twice a year, where they get to engage with other leaders across the state of Florida, talk about regional issues, state issues, and how regional councils are working together and individually to address regional issues. 
 
That is all I have. That is a link to our annual report, and I'm happy to answer any questions. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Johansson? 
  
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
No questions, but comments and Tara, you may want to elaborate a little bit. 
 
If you recall, gentlemen, this was a request from me to kick off having folks who we write checks to every year to come explain what they do for us, and what is our ROI. Come budget time, we always kind of ask: what did they do? Why are we spending that much time on them? Since I was on the executive committee, I asked George and Tara to be the first to bat, but I imagine Team Volusia and others will follow. 
 
I have the privilege of being on the board with Councilmember Robins, and one of the things I very much appreciate is the collaboration with the regional – the other counties. I know most of us are on boards where other counties are involved, and the collaboration and that thinking in each county is different, but I get a take away every time. Something to bring back and poor George and Suzanne, they are already ahead of it, practitioners already thnking about it.  
 
It's amazing some of the things that the regional planning councils do, and I appreciate that the East Central Florida Planning Council very much. David brought something up about the Q presentation – how do we raise our average wages? East Central Florida Planning probably has a study or answer for us, how we can chip in on some niche and big progress. 
 
I appreciate everything you do. Thanks for allowing me to be on the board. I am looking forward to many years of collaboration and coordination with you, thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Any other questions or comments? By council. Thank you very much for coming in, can I get a motion to accept? 
 
TROY KENT: 
Thank you, motion to accept the report as presented. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Second. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Motion by Vice Chair Kent, second by Councilman Johansson. All in favor say aye. Any opposed? You are accepted. 
 
Item 4, approval of award for affordable housing Funding. 
 
BRAD BURBAUGH: 
Brad Burbaugh, community service Dir. In addition to the reading materials was a PowerPoint that provides an overview of who needs help, and who are helping in our community. What are the housing needs? What this council has done to address the needs, as well as others. How we have maximized our funding streams, which is a strategy as well as the terms of the agreement. 
 
I am prepared to go through the presentation if it is council's prerogative.  
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I request a brief presentation because we have this also. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK.   
 
BRAD BURBAUGH: 
Carmen Hall is going to join and we are going to tag team the presentation and get through quickly.  We will stop at the projects that are funded and see if you wanted to go further, cursory review. Most importantly, we have seen unprecedented changes in the housing community. Rampant investor buying that we have not seen before, and increasing renter housing, 420,000 people moved to Florida and we only provided 155,000 new units were built, that is contributing to the affordability crisis. 
  
The decade following the great recession was the lowest number of houses built since the 60s. That have created a storm in our housing market, but here are the people that we are really helping. The point here, these are working-class people. These are people that are disabled, people on fixed income that need support in terms of the housing crisis. Many are full-time workers but they are struggling. They are essential workers, they are teachers, healthcare employees, law enforcement, firefighters. They are highly impacted and they are the cornerstones of the community. 
 
We have to keep people safe and healthy and educated, and those essential workers are having a hard time finding a place to stay in our community. So that is the, those are the people we're helping. So it is the working class that need a hand up and not a hand out. 
 
CARMEN HALL:  
So, on the slide, you can see at the top it says FMR. That is fair market rent. Currently that is the highest acceptable rent in our county that would be considered affordable. You will see a lot of rent higher than that and you could see some a little lower, it is rare. 
 
So the rent for a two bedroom apartment, to make it affordable, it would cost, it would take somebody making $25 per hour in order to afford this, OK? This is a 35% increase in prices since 2021. At $25 an hour, that would mean somebody is making over $52,000 a year to get unaffordable two-bedroom apartment in our county. 
 
The average, the mean renter wage in Volusia County is $17.48, right over $36,000. You can see where the gap is in the income with our county. Volusia County currently has 34,000 renter households that are cost burden, spending over 30% of their income on housing expenses. 
 
50% of those households are spending over 50% of their income on their household expenses. So that paints a picture of where a lot of our residents are right now. 
 
BRAD BURBAUGH: 
One of the things to contextualize this slide, you're looking at a 35% increase in local) 2021. Cyrus in our team, we asked what the wage increase was and it was 6.1. So rent increase by 35% and wage increase by 6.1. It is supply and demand that is driving the price. 
 
Just to provide an example from the Schellenberg study is of a local example to conceptualize this, in 2014, the average monthly rent was $900 in the Daytona Beach area in 2014. In 2023, it is $1904. A $1000 increase over those few years.  
 
Over 100%. So, what has this counsel done? I think a lot of times people don't understand the depth and breadth of what this council and other elected officials have done to basically, you know, get more supplies out the door and preserve what we have only affordable housing stock. 
 
That is really evidence-based strategies in terms of how we keep people in affordable homes. The cost of them being homeless, Central Florida did a study on this and it cost taxpayers about $35,000 per year per homeless person. 
 
Institutional care is a much higher burden on the taxpayers than helping people stay in their homes. That has been our focus, as you will see. Almost 100 million. But also creating more affordable housing units. Since 2021, this counsel has supported the development of 1019 new affordable units. With this 302 we are presenting today, it will be 1321 units at the Council had supported along with the state. 
 
CARMEN HALL:  
OK, how are we maximizing our existing funding streams? This is a goal in our funding stream. By this proposal, there is $8.7 million available through this and those are all federal and state grants that have to be used towards affordable housing. That is really important to point out. 
 
The intent of the RFP was to bridge the gap. These are developments that already have access had been awarded funds either through the state, local, private funding, there are factors we will get into later that they still have a gap to complete the project. 
 
This was the intent of the proposal. All developments needed to be a minimum of 50 units and they were capped per standard unit and Permanent Supportive Housing unit. You will see the phrase PSH, that is Permanent Supportive Housing for individuals who may need a little bit of extra help in order to live independently then to transition them to being able to permanently live independently. 
 
The committee just recommended $7.8 million. 
 
BRAD BURBAUGH: 
So, the terms of the agreement, one of the things I think is important to point out here is that we have turned to the private market to incentivized development. This approach is not socialism. 
 
We are using tools in the capitalistic system to help us achieve this project. Not everyone got what they asked for in terms of this request, nearly 12%, there was a 12% gap presented by the project that were awarded and we are awaiting 7%. So they will need to go back out to the market or find a way to make it happen. 
 
So again, you know, if this was socialism – we would not turn to the private sector for solutions. The public sector would be the development firm and the owner of the facilities, which they are not. We're just providing incentives for the private sector. 
 
CARMEN HALL:  
On the slide, this provides an overview of the capital stock. You can see majority of the funding for all four of these projects makes 56% is our tax credits at the state level. It competed for that funding 4% and 9% and have received the funding. That is the majority. There's local and state funding, mortgages and loans, different developer fee and there is still a gap like Brad mentioned of $12 million. So this gap is presenting 7.8 million in county funds to help close that gap. 
 
BRAD BURBAUGH: 
One thing to point out is this is a one-time investment of county funds to get this investment in. As talking my contact at the Builders Association, they said there is a ripple effect to this investment in terms of the data they use when they present to state legislature. 
 
That is for every $1 million in government funding, it generates a $7.6 million in economic activity. Every $1 million generates over 2.89 earnings or income. For everyone million, government jobs are created in the affordable housing sphere. 
 
Thus, your investment today, if approved of $7.8 million, represents 59, it would be the catalyst towards $59 million in economic activity, 23 million of new earnings and income in our community and 600 jobs created. 
 
So, this is just a snapshot of the need in our community. Our gap is about 11,000 affordable rental properties. This is the category that the individuals are proposing. We have assisted 264, some of the developments – one just needed money for specific units but there will be a total of 302 units at the end of the day. 
 
So, these are kind of the requests from each of the projects and what was awarded. I will stop here if there are any questions or if you'd like us to continue. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
No. Continue, I might have a question on another development. Don? 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
The study you were referring to, you said in 2014 the average rental, I guess it was a two bedroom? Three-bedroom? 
 
BRAD BURBAUGH: 
It was average. I can pull a report for you, it was published by the Florida housing finance Corporation. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
OK, in that study do you also have 2004 rental rates? 
 
BRAD BURBAUGH: 
No sir, I can find out for you. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
How long would it take to find that? Is it easily accessible? 
 
BRAD BURBAUGH: 
Not standing here at the podium, I could not find it. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
Fair enough, fair enough. But actually, I am looking at a couple of things, Redcafe and rent.com is showing that – would you agree with this? Rental prices have actually dropped this past year by 1% in Daytona, Florida 2 1/2%? 
 
BRAD BURBAUGH: 
I would say they have stabilized, they haven't, you know... Yes, they have stabilized. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
OK. If you happen to come across the stat for 2004, I would appreciate it. Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Just a quick question on the projects that are in various cities. Do they also have to get city commission approval? 
 
CARMEN HALL:  
It depends on the project and where it is located. We have one in unincorporated Volusia County that they are working with the local municipality and orange city on utilities. They are also working, if I'm correct, located in the municipality so they would have to work with them also. 
 
BRAD BURBAUGH: 
Just like any other development project. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
The one you have on the screen, DeLand, that was heard by the city and did not make it through? 
 
BRAD BURBAUGH: 
It is here and Sean, I believe is the president of the organization and can speak to that. I understanding is this was a cursory and informal review last night. It was each Commissioner expressing their sentiments and comments on the project it was not a vote. 
 
Based on our conversations with Sean this morning, he and Mark Watts, they feel it is a pathway for the issues that were identified by them and the Deland commission. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
What happens if we vote for all of these and thus one or another is turned down by the city process? 
 
BRAD BURBAUGH: 
It is a cost reimbursable, just like many of our grants. If they don't incur the cost of developing, they won't get it. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
So we can use that money for a different project? David, did you have a question at this point? 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I would like to make a motion. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
thank you, Mr. Chair. Good job staff, I think you took it to the Council had guided you on. The best part of this is using grant monies is not recurring funds. With that, Mr. Chair, I move to approve.  
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
David Santiago makes a motion to approve the funding. Is there a second? 
 
TROY KENT: 
Second. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Second by Vice Chair Kent. They sat down, so, there is probably no reason to go through it. We do have several members of the public. Sorry. 
 
JAKE JOHANNSON: 
Can you go back to the capital stock, please? Sorry about that cursor. I am just putting the screen backup. The capital stack slide.  
 
The tax credit equity, is that money that we will not collect revenue from? Because it is a tax credit? 
 
BRAD BURBAUGH: 
I am going to tell my team to correct me if I speak out of turn. This is a little income, essentially what they are doing is my understanding of the process and our developers are in the office, and the audience as well. It is vouchers, they sell these on the market to reduce corporate tax rates. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
And the local and state funding of 19 million? Is that somebody other than accounting? 
 
CARMEN HALL: 
One of the projects has previously received a local county contribution of $460,000, probably about two years ago for the development of one of the projects. That local contribution made them competitive for the tax credits at the state level. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Got it. So really, that is an additional $400,000 of gap? It was just gap from four years ago? 
 
CARMEN HALL: 
Correct. We would not look at it as gap. We would look at it as contribution. Without that contribution they would not be able to get the tax credit. 
 
BRAD BURBAUGH: 
There is 4%. The 9% is highly competitive. We luckily, this helps us leverage those by having a local contribution. Ship gives us that allocation tier of what we need to give to one of those local projects. It is a requirement of ship funding. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
$8.2 million for developer fees, those are county fees and city fees? 
 
SPEAKER: 
These are fees paid to the developers is my understanding. What they are doing is they can defer to later in the project rather than upfront. That is not included in the financing. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Got it. Where in the funding is the developers (indiscernible)? Or is it totally paid for by OPN, other people's money? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Mortgages and loans is the private sector contribution here. I would be required (indiscernible) 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
I appreciate it. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
I hope this is a quick question, I do not know if it will be a quick answer what are all of the things you look at to decide. Not everybody was picked, that submitted. What is the criteria that you're looking at to determine which one makes the cut? 
 
SPEAKER: 
A lot of the sunsets maximizing our funding stream and using multiple different sources of funds. A lot of the funding has different requirements. Really at the end of the day, the team and eyes approach is to get the most affordable housing units for the least amount of money. 
 
The ones that we have proposed, your team has proposed, on average is about $25,000 per unit in support. In contrast, the individuals that were not selected for this RFP, they are asking on average $59,000 per unit. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you. 
 
I don't see any other questions from counsel so I will call, the four members of the public who wanted to speak to this. First is Sean Wilson. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Good morning Mr. chair and members of the Council, staff members of the public. My name is Sean Wilson I am the President of blue sky communities. We are an affordable housing developer based in St. Petersburg. I want to thank staff for the recommendation and complement staff on running a really good process. 
 
We participate in a lot of RFPs in other counties that are similar to Volusia County, for example Sarasota County and Polk County, for similar types of funding. What I want to express to you about the process is, to the Council, about the process is, that you have the luxury of having an affordable housing development machine. It is a nationwide machine. All cities and counties participate in the 4% and 9% low income tax credit program. It is a Reagan program and it is a very successful affordable housing development program. 
 
It is heavily monitored, administered by the state of Florida. You can be sure that the developers that you are warding the funding to, because we all have state funding, we are experienced, we know what we are doing and not only are we going to build it efficiently and effectively without enriching ourselves or damaging the county financially. We are going to manage it and it is going to stay nice for decades to come. There are examples of these kinds of communities in Volusia County that has stayed nice for a long time. I'm sure these four will as well. 
 
With respect to my particular development, it is basically right behind this building. It is a high profile site in downtown DeLand. We had a very nice meeting which you can have your staff look at. Last night with the city commissioned. We have already been in front of historic preservation and technical review committee. We got really good comments and I think that we definitely have a path forward to get a formal approval by the city commission in due time. Not in due time, in an expedient manner such that we can spend the funding and you guys can meet your goals. 
 
One comment that came up before about what happens if you approve the funding today and a particular development does not move forward, you will not have spent a dime before that happens. Because what we do is, if you approve it today we will get a commitment from you. But then we will actually do a loan closing together with all of our other closing after permitting is done, right before we are going to break ground. No money will be spent before we start construction. Thank you very much Mr. chair. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Gary... (Name)? I cannot tell if that was B. Or G. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Thank you chair and council members my name is Gary and I live in the far north. The east side of the county. I am here basically to support this initiative for affordable housing. My background is believe it or not, about a decade ago I retired as a corporate sustainability officer for a large multinational company with 67 companies all over the world that made building products. 
 
One of the things we realized in sustainability is that, the company cannot thrive unless the community around it, the system around it is also thriving. We made investments in the community. We did a lot of work with Habitat for Humanity at the national level and at the local level. We donated tons of cabinets and faucets and all kinds of products and goods and services and provided labour on those projects. 
 
With respect to that, I also want to mention I heard earlier about this economic development effort and wanting to raise the average wage in the county, which I think is laudable. We have to be careful because I think the temptation is to jump to, less attract some big industries to pay a lot of money. And that will raise the wage. It will raise the average wage. But the people we are talking about that need affordable housing, are the people that take care of our parents at nursing homes. The people who beg our groceries, teachers and others. Those are a part of the community who will still be here. These are not lazy people. Most of them are full-time employed people who will need our help. 
 
We have to take a two-pronged approach in raising the average wage. We have to help these people with affordable housing. 
 
I am also part of the faith organization in Volusia County which is the unknowing T-shirts you have probably seen before. As a person of faith I believe this is part of our responsibility taking care of those around us, I thought the presentation was done extremely well, I realize that the rental housing has kind of stabilize more recently but in the last several years and has gone up much more than wages. I urge you to prove this and thank you very much. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you. John Nicholson? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Several years ago the county had a workshop on affordable housing. It was found there was a need for it. Secondly, about two or three years ago there were four projects that came before the Council. Two in Daytona Beach, one on Martin Luther King and one on Madison. One in Holly Hill which is in this presentation. And the fourth one, I cannot recall where it was. 
 
There is a need for it. The one that is here, I only know the one. I wish you would have given all four so I could have something to compare. You only presented the one and the other one I already knew about. 
 
There is a specific need that the Holly Hill project does. It is different from what was presented four or five years ago. But we definitely need to target affordable housing. I know for those of you who are capitalist, those of you who are Republicans. Everyone pull them selves up by their own bootstraps, but some people cannot. 
 
He had several people come before you a year ago maybe who were in trailers, senior citizens. They never foresaw that there (unknown term) fees would go up so high so fast. They cannot afford it and they are not like shelters. I'm asking you to support this, anything you can do to help seniors and those who are in this market. Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you. Jason Meyers? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Thank you Mr. chair. Jason Meyer, Holly Hill Florida... Thank you so much for having me and hearing me out. I started my first business when I was 15. Raised in Volusia County. I never received W-2 income from the business I did not own. I do not believe in handouts, help people who are trying to help themselves. 
 
I have been hearing about affordable housing for years. We keep trying to throw money at it, more and more government and tax dollar money. We have to think differently about how we solve this problem. That is what I challenge my team to do. We submitted an RFP, we submitted a proposal for a new type of affordable housing that is actually built affordably and delivers a great product to seniors and working individuals. 
 
Gap funding does not specify how large of a gap. When you're getting $100 million in incentives to get their attention to units, there Is smaller than when you are putting more money… And asking for the threshold of the county established of 60,000 unit. 
 
These guys are professionals going out there and shopping around getting the money I am trying to solve the problem differently. Deliver something in our community for people who need it. I recruited a business in town who will serve seniors, employ hundred people. A lot of people can live there, open to the public. 
 
Also have another primary health clinic coming to this campus, we can employ people. A lot of these people are working individuals who can benefit from this. Holly Hill is definitely a community that needs affordable housing, but we have to make it sustainable and think differently about this problem. When you look at that capital stack, how much of that money is the skin in the game? The amount of mortgages they have is the amount of money I'm putting into the project. I spent $8 million already, I'm about to spend 10 million in new construction and I would invest another millions of dollars in the development of this. 
 
To me that is the public and private partnership. I do not think the ask is to significant, it is the threshold established by the county. I think that staff got this one wrong. They looked at it as a normal scoring process and I get that. But I think we have to think differently about this problem and this is a way to create something that is sustainable in our community. One time dollars and maybe the percentage is a little bit higher, but as far as total tax dollars and how much we are going after from government, not nearly anywhere like that. 
 
This is a beautiful project. It is going to create studios and we are using alternative materials to create this. This is something that can be replicated throughout the community and other people can build affordable tea without a lot of subsidies. Thank you for your consideration, but I think at this time it should not be an approval it should be a reconsideration of how we are allocating these dollars. Thank you. 
 
(Applause) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Derek Collins? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Nice to see you guys again. This is on a different type of scale. When it comes to me I am dealing with the youth only. I deal with ages 9 to 18. The reason I am here regarding this is because, after that age group I have no control over what I can do with these youth and their families. I have to let them go to whatever services deal with adults. 
 
We are looking to allow youth that do not have foster care kids aged out. When they gauge out they have to go to a location like group homes or shelters, sometimes they are apartments that they can work with. What we are proposing was to allow the same 50 units as some of these other programs are doing, but catered towards kids aging out of foster care. A lot of these agencies are dealing with homelessness, the use and population I am dealing with will become homelessness if we are not able to provide a smooth transition from foster care to adulthood. 
 
Our program would be dealing with kids aging out of foster care, transitioning from foster care and will continue the services we provide for those kids nine, to 18. And transitioning to adults. Which allows me to broaden my scope of the services we provide to my population. 
 
I know that we were asking for all of the money for our presentation. We did not partner and have loans and stuff like that like some of these other agencies did. That is why I believe our program was turned down, we were asking for a higher amount. We met all of the other qualifications but like Jason Meyer said, I want you guys to reconsider where some of this money is going. Like I said, the kids we deal with will turn into homelessness. Statistics show it. I think you guys should reconsider some other options just outside of the traditional agencies that were chosen. 
 
(Applause)  
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Elizabeth (Name). 
 
SPEAKER: 
I just have a statement as I was listening to all of this, as to an idea, I don't know if it's ever been considered or how it could be done with the stuff. We have lots of defunct malls that are throughout our county. What kind of incentive can be given to landowners to build this type of housing instead of letting the space that they are rot away? Is that something that can be considered and be addressed? That is all I have to say? 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you. Randy from DeLand. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I am Randy Williams, I am actually from Michigan originally. And I'm actually supporting this gentleman's comments here. I graduated with a BBA from a college in Michigan that was all about free enterprise, and I take the stack that Jake identified the private investment in and the projects was in the teens, and the rest was coming from other funding sources that were involved in government. And if you are not-- I believe I have been really accustomed to keeping up on the news lately, that our federal government and other places are technically bankrupt. 
 
To continue the process of obtaining funds for a very needy purpose, I'm not denying that, I'm just saying that you got to rethink or you ought to consider rethinking how you fund these types of projects. And some creativity and some ingenuity. You could possibly be at a steppingstone for other counties to take your example. 
 
There are all sorts of other things that I have memorably read that can do great justice in helping affordable housing and the homeless of which I am one. And I have purposely not taken housing for my own conscious. I have a lot of different reasons, but I think the private sector is the way to consider the funding, for the staff funding was in the teens. 
 
We are getting funds from organizations that are technically insolvent, including our federal government for a lot of different projects. Given opportunity to show a good example. I appreciate everything you guys have done for me. Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you. That is the end of the public participation period. Brad or Carmen, I just had one more question for you. This amount of money that we have today that we are voting on, is that all of the money dedicated to this and for what period of time? And how do we replenish it? 
 
SPEAKER: 
As part of the solicitation, we had a 8.7 we are a rewarding 7.8, that was because the permanent supportive housing funds that we had, and these are basically units that align with our housing for strategy to get homeless people off the street. 
 
We have seen a significant over the last 10 years going into this policy that was formed under Bush Senior where he provided housing first and we address the other issues, as decreased or homeless population by 100,000. 
 
We are seeing that solely creep up again. These units will be important in addressing the issue and it gets people off the streets and get some the services they need. 
 
We have more money in that and we were able to award, I have committed to Jason and his team after the solicitation, I turned to them, there is no doubt there is a need for the foster care continuum. There needs to be a facility to address the continuum. 
 
My advice was that I would work with them, we will put some of this money back out on the street, we will also have some additional ship dollars. Again, only a small percentage can be used for rental. Some ship dollars back out on the street, and committed to helping them be successful with their projects as much as we can. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK, thank you, that is good to hear. I am wondering, how do we replenish this? Do you have another round of money besides what you have in reserves now, that will come? I know that depends on the state and the federal government. This is all that you know of right now? 
 
SPEAKER: 
This was a combination of multiple sources for this program, income, from our federal program interstate program, as well as some allocations from the state and federal government as well. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Just to elaborate a little bit, but we did receive programming for the year, but we do it anticipation funding in July of this year, and then additional home funds in October of this year. And so at that time, we would have more funds to be dedicated to the projects. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK, thank you both. 
 
SPEAKER: 
If I may, this Council approved, I believe, 50 million for rental development, as part of CB DTR, the folks that were not eligible for this one, and certainly apply for the funding stream which the RFP should be going out on the street in the next few months. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK, thank you Danny Robbins. 
 
SPEAKER: 
How much do we just dedicate for formal housing and some of these formal incentives? Just off the top of your head. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I believe, was it 200 million for housing rehabs? 15 million for rental development. The team is frantically looking. 50 million for rental development. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Here is another one-- I can send out an email and use it as a reference time and time, it's been a few years, I think we are north of maybe 100 million, it was 18 million at the time for local rehabs whether it is AC units, I know there is a lot of stuff like that. Is this a doused fund so operative in the state? 
 
SPEAKER: 
That is where ship fund come from. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Does programs like this pay for its impact fees and all the stuff? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Yes, to date. The Council approved the referral as part of the changes which we will come back to in an ordinance form. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Mr. Johansson had asked earlier to also defer tax credit with this kind of stuff as well? Or a difference in the tax, the taxes, corporate taxes? 
 
SPEAKER: 
No, they get credits and they sell them to corporate entities to reduce. One of the things I read recently is that before the trump tax bill, they would get a dollar for dollar, but now the re-reduce the corporate tax rate, they are getting about $0.70-$0.90 to the dollar for those tax credits. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK thank you, counsel. I think it comes down to principal. Don and I have been the same page throughout this-- I don't know if it is we do it --  your mentors work in this area preaching to the choir, but we for some testimonies and statements earlier how do we keep things sustainable. 
 
Taxpayers are paying for this at some point. How we make things sustainable, because these are government plans created to combat government created problems. We have wage growth-- inflationary spending is rabid. Ms. Myers is absolutely right, we have to reevaluate coming up with some of these formulas because we have a need for 34,000 rentals but there's 500 and city 4000 residents. Should be the gap there responsible for funding a minority population like this, when there is a lot of things that are too far down the road for the stuff. 
 
If I don't support this it would be on the principal end. I want to focus more on getting people back to work, working, giving them all of the tools and options to be successful, government getting out of the way, so we create less dependability both President and in the future and just relieve this burden from the overwhelming majority of the taxpayers. Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
County attorney, Michael Dyer. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I apologize, my tablet hit thr speed button. You have to see something-- 
 
SPEAKER: 
A lot of the questions the chairman had asked, I understand that, you said ship dollars available in July, home dollars in October. 8.7 is available but we are only using 7.8. And there is an issue, for but housing is an issue. I'm only going to speak to it at the local. These bigger developments that are out there that want to do this, I commend you, sir, and those I want to do that, and Jason, I do as well. 
 
When I lost my mom about a year ago, she had a big heart. There was a young couple that lived in that house, it was a three-bedroom, one 1/2 bath house, just not apartment-- you are so but affordable housing. She rented it to him for 850 a month. It was a corner lot, it was nice home. When she passed, we tried desperately to keep it at that, my mom was better off financially. 
 
We are in a position now where it is hard to do when you are paying property taxes and insurance. I'm sure these gentlemen have that issue as well. There is a lot to take in. I had the pleasure of listening to Jason's proposal. And I liked it. I did. I will be honest, I thought about he showed me the concept of it, I really did like it, it put people to work a little while ago we were talking about the workforce housing issue we just brought up the salaries, we are trying to keep those people walking across the aisle when they are receiving their diplomas to come back to stay here were in Volusia County Isaac a program like that would do that, Jason. 
 
I agree with what you are saying. I am interested to hear what my colleagues say. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Johansson. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
I don't like spending taxpayers money without thinking hard about it. But the problem of affordable housing is not going to go away. And we know that people live comfortably in a house are stable, there is community there is a lot of things that come with that letter maybe not tangible to us. When people are struggling to figure out where they are to put their pillow and head at night, they become more a part of an impact on our community. 
 
I think it is important that we don't not to fund this. These are government dollars with a lot of rules tied to them that if we don't use it, somebody else will, I get that. So the question becomes do we use it for what the staff has approved recommended or do we use it for other items that may or may not been approved? 
 
My question to staff last week, and I got a soft answer of yes, and all these things that have been proposed, proposed and recommended, and are recommended for in some bucket and be approved I do like Mr. Myers plan and I do like the Mr. and Mrs. issue. 
 
The answer is a soft yes, we just have to work for it. I would like for it all to be approved. That is to say there isn't a lot of transformed money out there, but all of these things have to happen and we are never going to catch up. And that if the other side for me. No matter how much investment we put on this, we are knocking to solve the informal housing issue. Part of it is David's concern we also have to raise the wages so people can afford homes we are building now. 
 
I think there is a balance there, we are knocking to please everybody but I do believe this is a good start in the right direction for this money that has to be used somehow within the confines of all of the rules of the ship, from what I can see, it's probably American rescue plan money the kind of has a little bit more wiggle room than the rest, I don't know.. 
 
I believe we need to spend this money somehow. And to believe that investing in a formal housing, a reduces crime rates, provide stable housing, sense of security, sense of belonging, and to some, it includes support services that address those underlying conditions that are linked to higher crime rates. I think this is important. The Governor thinks is important because he funded it. The governor thinks affordable housing is important because he executed the live local act. 
 
I'm going to put a little more credence in how we spend this money and kind of follow along with what the state wants to do before we lose it and it goes to summary else. Thank you, chairman.  
 
SPEAKER: 
I hope I'm not confused… Can the affordable housing gap funding be used to get people back to work? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Yes sir. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Tell me how. 
 
SPEAKER: 
There is a ripple effect. In terms of what is being proposed, by your team is that these units essentially leverage $107 million in outside investment to our community. A point of clarification is that, not only local tax revenue. This is federal income tax, is my understanding. 
 
With $107 million you are creating 600 new jobs.  Based on the gap proposed by individuals not awarded, you are looking at I believe a little over $5 million outside investment. You are looking at $107 million outside investment versus 5 million. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Sorry to interrupt. The new jobs are buildings that are being constructed? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Yes sir. 
 
SPEAKER: 
And then there is affordable housing for the individuals who are going to live in the building? But it is not creating new jobs for the individuals that are living in the buildings? 
 
SPEAKER: 
That is correct. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I want to make sure I had that clear in my head. When I heard, "I want to get people back to work or create new jobs" I wondered if I missed something in the memo, where we are not only creating affordable housing but jobs for the people living in the affordable housing. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Sorry. 
 
SPEAKER: 
That's alright. 
 
SPEAKER: 
The model we use if I may.... When the facility develops how the community will develop around it and those jobs are developed. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Is not permanent jobs, in the sense that they are going to a place of business for years and years. Once the building is built, done? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Yes, there is a percentage that is not permanent. 
 
SPEAKER: 
My last question I believe is, I heard one of the speakers, I thought I heard them say the process was flawed and we basically had to go back and change the formula. How is it flawed and if it is not how you did not fly? 
 
SPEAKER: 
We follow the policy of this Council and your team did not here. Actually were innovative in our approach in terms of combining different sources of funds to create a bigger pool to have impact on our community. We are looking at awarding 300 units instead of onsies twosies. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I did not hear you say that the process was flawed? I heard you follow the procedures that this Council set forth to spend these dollars and get the biggest, most impactful, positive for our area? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Yes sir. Going into it, get the most amount of units for the least amount of money. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Dempsey? 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
(Laughs) I know Jake is keeping score back there. I am going to go with the debate and let you know what Danny said. I am against this, it is probably no surprise to you guys. I keep prior discussions, diets we talked about issues like this, I am a big proponent of laissez-faire economics and capitalism. It was even brought up, this is not socialism. It sounds like socialism. It walks like it" acts like it and I think this is a socialistic type of program. 
 
I am all about helping people in a pinch but there has to be a limit. As far as the numbers I am finding, according to zillow, the average DeLand apartment, two-bedroom apartment is 1500 a month. Orange said he is 1550 a month. Deltona is 1600, like Helen, 1269. And Daytona, 1675. I am not seeing anywhere on Zillow except New Smyrna Beach which is above 1800. I do not know what those numbers are coming from. 
 
I am also looking at affordable data Clarence house and they listed Volusia County as being $1400 a month for a two bedroom house. Interestingly like I said before, we have to let the free market dictate pricing. Like Doctor (Name) said, it is supply and demand. 
 
Yes 100%, supply and demand. Our demand has gone up since COVID. A lot of people left more restrictive states to the open-door policies that Governor DeSantis put into place. And because of that we have had a lot of people move down here in the last two or three years. Again, supply and demand. Because of the influx of population the demand is going up, the supply went down. So the prices go up. That is economics 101. 
 
Now, these guys are saying the market is stabilized but that is a nice way of saying it is cooled off. It is going off. We are about to go into a crash scenario. Zillow has labelled… Port Orange is in a cooling phase. New Smyrna Beach is in the cooling phase. Deltona is warm, Lake Helen is warm. Nowhere is it hot anymore. I would say a couple of years ago it was hot because the prices have gone up. Now they are going down. These prices are all showing a trend coming down. 
 
Why do we think that we are smarter than the free enterprise system in capitalism? Things our forefathers fought for. We are capitalists, this is a capitalist nation. So let's let capitalism do its thing and quit using taxpayers money to try to come up with a fix. If all we are doing, again competing against private industry. Have landlords out there who are dealing with the 10% inflation, increased property taxes and insurance on the rentals. Of course the numbers are going to go up. Because the landlord's costs are going up. 
 
When you start creating all these affordable housing and the landlords are losing tenant, what is going to happen to the profit sector? We have no business putting her hands in the free market when it comes to this scenario. 
 
The other thing that I think is a paradox, we have all at least recognized we are for responsible growth. We all heard from constituents that there is too much growth. Slow it down, traffic is horrendous. Listening to Troy's car coming over here to DeLand. We have traffic that is backed up going eastbound off of Kepler 44, back to the State College. It is like three traffic lights to get through there. We are offering incentives to bring more people here? 
 
I am totally against this. It does not make sense. We have to slow down the growth and quit offering these incentives to create density in our community that is already, I think overdeveloped. Think you. 
 
(Applause) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Santiago? 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I want to ask Brad a question if I may. Brad, the 7.864 million that we are proposing in this item, where is that money coming from? 
 
SPEAKER: 
State and federal grants. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
No County? 
 
SPEAKER: 
No. You will see the hundred and 6 million that others have invested over the last few years, 90% has been state and federal funds. 2% from the general fund. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
And if we do not approve this what happens to this money? 
 
SPEAKER: 
If you want us to send it back or we can we advertise or change the award on the board floor. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
The money that is not County tax dollars that we are discussing, it is guided for this particular purpose proposed in the agenda item to use only in that area? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Yes Sir 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Don, I support your capitalist approach to things but I think one element that is left out of that is the people. We are a nation of giving and helping others what we can and I certainly support handouts. There is a fact that a lot of people are struggling in different categories in finding housing. We have $7.8 million here that we are not assessed to our residence here is a tax collected by. Us and staff did their job. They did exactly what we told him to do. Created this process. They utilized the procurement process to implement a program such as this. 
 
Though I do not know Mr. Myers program, and sounds like a good program itself. I do not know anything about it but just when I heard right now sounds good. The fact is the staff did their work here and I think we ought to honour it. 
 
I understand there is more potential money coming forward at this particular program Mr. Meyer would seek fruition. To send $7.8 million back when people would benefit from this is a disservice to our community. I think we should approve this and recognize staff's good work at the work we provided. 
 
(Applause) 
 
 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
I agree with you and I want to make a couple of points before a vote. I would like to see this approved. In my 100% comfortable with it, no I am not. I am glad to hear that Brad said he would work with Jason on the fountainhead project. I think the fountainhead project, Troy actually does bring permanent jobs. Because part of their project is, and job creation for people that need jobs. 
 
I am glad to hear staff say they would go to work with them. My issue with this is, I know we are all going to hear tomorrow on social media and an email that we are grasping socialism. The problem is, Don for me, housing does not follow supply and demand. It is not a free market system. It is so overburdened by government that the free market does not work. We can reverse some of that at a local level and I think that we should. 
 
I will tell you what I mean by that in a minute. For me this money truly is gap money. I do not believe this is pulling people in for Maryland and New York for housing. They heard Volusia County is giving all this money away for affordable housing. I think it is helping the people that live and work here right now. It is the working people of Volusia County who cannot afford normal rates. Maybe the market is stabilizing, I have been waiting 30 years for it to stabilize. And I just see this trend that keeps going up. 
 
The reason I say that housing is not a free market system is because housing is no longer shelter. It is an investment. Everybody buys a house for an investment and then expected to go up. Our whole economy is based on that. Unless we want another 2008 crash, we have to reverse that slowly. 
 
Now we have federal funding of mortgages, we have all of this government funding that our economy is set up on. And so, the government does not want housing to be a free market thing because then the economy crashes. 
 
We also have things that we can do here. And the reason I say this, is not a free market system is, look at what government has done with the zoning? You cannot go in and build a duplex or a triplex in a neighbourhood. Because zoning does not allow it. 
 
We cannot let neighbourhoods mature because government does not allow it, you can only have single-family homes in most areas. And you cannot have any commercial. You cannot have a neighbourhood store in a residential area that would prevent people from having to jump in their car to go everywhere. 
 
The Florida building code makes it incredibly expensive to build housing. How do you have affordable housing? Parking requirements are one of the biggest culprits for everything that is built. You have to have an enormous amount of parking. That is something we can work on. 
 
The other thing is there is a whole other industry here that government is (indiscernible). I'm not talking about the County I am talking about DC on down. That is incremental development. Because an industry of young entrepreneurs that can go into a neighbourhood and build an affordable housing. 
 
We took a bite of that with accessory dwelling units, saying people could enclose a garage and rented out. Put a mother-in-law suite in their backyard and rented out. It helps them, especially older people to supplement a limited income. And helps the people starting out. 
 
While I would like to work on all those things, it is not going to happen tomorrow. This is the gap I believe is needed to serve the people that live here right now that cannot afford. I know I talk to people, they own children who are looking for houses to rent. And it is insane. 
 
While we need to make it a level playing field, and bring in free-market sources, we don't have that right now. It's almost a monopoly. I hope that we will approve this, I hope that staff will go back and work with Jason. Both the other projects that are represented here. 
 
So, I'm going to vote for it, and I just urge the rest of the Council to do the same. Councilman Robbins? 
 
SPEAKER: 
I think we should make it known that tax dollars are still tax dollars. And the-- to become less of a and why use this term, a nanny state. At the end of the day we are handing out money, in my opinion, were we haven't established why we need affordable housing. 
 
I compare the situations to trying to solve, pick one, climate change. Here we have homeless and veterans and here we throw tax money, give the government tax money to try and change the temperature of the world, you know, give me a break. 
 
If we were doing so much of this in so much of other areas I would be more inclined to do this, but I just, I'm kind of with Don on this. This isn't sustainable. We are asking ourselves why things aren't affordable-- there is no land, why do we think housing is expensive? Our kids are knocking to be able to afford to live here, our grandkids are knocking to be able to afford to live here. 
 
We have created a system that is government dependency through and through. And we have to look at this. We do a lot. We do a lot. Counsel, I don't know if I will be able to support this, thanks. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Dempsey. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I wasn't going to say anything else but I had to respond to a couple of your things, Jeremy. If you are saying that this is not bringing new people into the community, and where are these people that are taking these houses? Are they living in the woods right now? I think not. I think later on in your statement, you said these are the people that are can move out of the expensive rentals and move into the affordable rentals. 
 
Now let's look at the landlord who just lost a tenant. What is going to happen him? How was he can repay those doubled insurance costs that he was paying, or the higher property taxes that we are creating by this program contributing to higher taxes for these landlords, to the programs like this, and then that was his investment, that is his retirement. 
 
So now we are again, the government is competing with the private sector. And to say that this has nothing to do with the free-market, there have been a lot of people-- asked Donald Trump how he got his money, real estate, there's a lot of people that made a lot of money in this country the real state, flippers, everybody. 
 
To see the real estate is not a factor in a free market is I think disingenuous. And to take these-- to take the private landlords tenets away from him, you make him expect them to pay taxes, and expect all of this increase cost to be borne by him I guess, is unfair, it's all most like a Robin Hood type of thing where we are going to take tax money from him and compete against him and give it to the poor, and pat ourselves on the back and thinking we are doing some the grey for the community. We are helping one segment but we are punishing another segment in the community and that are fair. It is not a government function. 
 
Again, this is going to draw more people to already crowded communities. You are the first talking about responsible growth. This is going to bring in countless more issues with traffic, potentially flooding. You blame a lot of the flooding issues on overdevelopment. We are can have a 300 and something unit affordable housing complex right down here on 44, you don't think that is can add to the traffic problem over there? Of course it is. And there is flooding in that area. It is can add to the flooding? I don't know, I'm not an expert. 
 
Listening to you in the past, you attribute a lot of the flooding issues to the development. We are adding a bigger care to develop for more development and I can't see how we can one breath say response will growth and response will development, but at all these incentives to bring more growth and more development. And that is why I am a hard know. Thank you, Jeff. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
I'm going to apply and let everyone know, Don is my friend, I like him a lot, this is not personal. It's two different perspectives coming out and I understand your argument. First, who are these people that are going to come? It's the people that are living three, four, and five people in a house, several families, because they can't afford it. They can't afford to have a private home to rent with their children. 
 
It's single mothers and single dads, that are now living in our community paying 50, 60, 65% of their income for rent, and they are eating crap because there is no money left over food. They can't afford to go to the doctor, their kids don't go to the dentist. We do have to work on raising income levels in the county, I agree with that. But I don't believe that this is some giant draw from every other state to come here. 
 
I think it fills a gap for the current extremely, extreme shortage in housing, in our community. And you are right, I am constantly talking about responsible growth in the flooding. This is not that. These are projects that are built where there is already infrastructure, where there are already stormwater, where there is already sewage, and is it growth? 
 
Yeah, it is growth, it is the most response kind. I have to look at each one and say what it's responsible, I'm not just no growth, we can build anymore houses. We need to build some houses, and we need to build a hold on more commercial facilities for jobs and job creation. I think I am being consistent, I understand your argument. But the problem is we have a huge housing shortage. 
 
And the people that already live here in our county, you can talk to some of the people in the audience that work with these people that are living in government facilities or living in squalor trying to make ends meet. Until we change the system, until we get government out of this with the way that we finance housing with zoning, parking, and all the things I already mentioned. We need to do both. Councilman Johansson? 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Thank you. One of the things I think support in this-- we have X amount of people coming in the state outside 275,000, I think that is a little overdoing it, but maybe not. When these people move into affordable housing and there is that gap for the person who rented out to those people, I think there is somebody coming in right behind in moving into that place, so I'm not too concerned about rental units going empty, based on the amount of rental units that are going up in this county. 
 
Number two, one of the things that I'm very critical of is the live local act because I think that our tax based has to be divided amongst industrial commercial and residential units. And so, as far as I am concerned, the commercial/ Industrial areas that are now up for grabs for 40 will housing worries me a little bit. 
 
None of these projects are in industrial, is a correct? I don't believe they are. I believe they are probably close to zoned as they should be. 
 
SPEAKER: 
They are not using the live local act. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
So that for me, to put affordable housing that we can vote on, that we can make a difference on, and approve right here, and to other that are good ideas that we are going to try and work on, that are not live local act, this puts more affordable housing where we want it, and novel we don't want to. I am a big fan of that as well. I'm not saying if we don't do this, I don't know. But 300 units of affordable housing, we can say no to this, send the money back, walk around the good Republicans and say we did it. 
 
And tomorrow, Jason Meyer will go to an industrial area or somebody else, and built a 700 units and we have to sit back and watch it happen and go, "there goes our industrial property and or tax revenue for the future". 
 
So, I'm not saying this is what I want to do, but this is the best of the worst, maybe, in my situation. And I am going to support for that amongst other reasons. Thank you. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
All good comments, I'm glad we are having this dialogue, in the same genre, I guess. The fact is, no one has disputed the fact that the affordability crisis exists out there. It exists Volusia County. This is a tool that will additionally help to mitigate that crisis on a small scale. But in its dollars that are now being assessed to the county, thank you, Mr. Chair. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you. Who is going to call the roll? 
 
SPEAKER: 
(Rollcall) 
 
5 to 2. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
The motion to make the approved award for affordable housing passes 5 to 2. Great discussion. 
 
Tim, I am sorry to disappoint you but I am hearing from the rest of the Council, it is time for a break. 
 
Pardon me? 
 
We will adjourn. It is 12 PM. We will adjourn until 12:32 p.m.. 
 
(Break until 12:32 PM)   
 
SPEAKER: 
Welcome to the Volusia County Council meeting. The meeting will continue in two minutes. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
We will resume the meeting with Tim Bailey and item 5. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Good afternoon Mr. chair. I am Tim Bailey, recreational and parks director. In front of you have the strategic partner sports complex feasibility study. If you recall, we did pull out the motorcross. We spoke about that earlier. Today is just going to be about the sports complex in the BMX. 
 
Today I have Ron and Lexi and I will bring Ron to speak on topic. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I believe we have the presentation here. 
 
Good afternoon all, I hope you enjoyed lunch. We did. We are pleased to be here today to deliver the results of the sports, outdoor sports complex and BMX component of the project study. That was the primary question, what is the feasibility of that on a specific site? In order to get there we looked at where you are now in terms of supply and demand, how you stack up on account of your locational attributes and other attributes. What are the opportunities out there? And how do we get there? 
 
During the course of the project and the study, our team really interviewed all kinds of stakeholders including elected officials, staff, sports representatives and those that manage facilities, terminal operators and other stakeholders. You can see a list of the folks in the organizations they are on the screen. 
 
In terms of the SW OT analysis for both of these projects, we divvy up a little bit. There are some similarities and differences. Obviously in terms of strength, like most places in Florida you are growing quite rapidly. That is always beneficial in terms of supply and demand situation for a new facility. Especially a sports facility, when you have more families in the area. 
 
You have a generally central located in Florida. Strong regional demand for sports that continues to increase. We have county owned land, which is always a benefit to the situation. And then you actually have a proven demand, through your existing BMX facility, that also because of its distance from this site makes it far enough to make it a potential opportunity according to BMX Florida. BMX USA. 
 
In terms of opportunities, we do see the opportunity for what I would call a Metro wide terminal grade outdoor facility. This would complement regional facility is that what host regional and national tournaments. We would meet local needs and countywide needs and easy drive time around. But we are not necessarily trying to do something that is going to be state or national level with 16+ fields and that kind of thing. 
 
We are looking for private sector partnerships with determinate operators, recommending new BMX… Capabilities as part of the growth of BMX in the state. There is some commercial development potential in surrounding sites and this should increase the quality of life for residents. 
 
In terms of weaknesses, it is a weakness that becomes a strength for the project. Right now there is limited outdoor fields for local use for both play and practice. In terms of the tourism side of it and the benefits of that, in the western and southwestern portion of the county that are actually fewer hotels. Some of this impact, in fact a good chunk of this impact would probably spill over into Seminole County. But again, we are not necessarily doing this for tourism. The focus was more on for county and local area use. 
 
And in terms of threats, there are some other much larger sports complexes being proposed in several areas to the north and south along the east coast of Florida. None of those have been financed and all of those would be quite large. And would not be really competing directly with us. We would again be looking at something that would serve more local areas. 
 
In terms of the use sports you do have the acreage on the site for something of this size. However, because of the water and some of the other things we are recommending some overlays where you have these combination fields. You can have rectangular fields in the outfield's of the softball baseball fields. To really make this site mostly optimized. Ideally you would have much more space to spread out and have individual fields, but this allows you to pick the use during different times of the year for those flex fields. 
 
In terms of tournament means you will be writing in that sweet spot, that ate her field tournaments. In terms of supply and demand, there really is not a lot around here that is going to be directly competitive. This does fill a gap but does not try to step up in the level where a lot of these others are trying to compete for those much larger events. 
 
And then of course we looked at case studies. That flexibility and nimble management to make sure that the fields are getting used as often as possible. But then can get all of those groups in there that want to use them when they can throughout the day and evening, is going to be important for really optimizing the use and benefiting the local citizens. 
 
In terms of the BMX, the current track in Daytona as I mentioned sort of produce out of the demand level that is there. And in speaking with USA BMX, there is a market opportunity to grow that supply in Volusia County. About 30 minute drive from the existing site. That is just far enough to put it into their ideal of their master plan for having 30+ of these around the state. 
 
And then in terms of the premier racing facility, that is the ideal. To have a premier BMX race facility in Volusia County that offers that high-end experience and partnership with BMX. Anything that I missed there Lexi before I go on to the next one? 
 
In terms of our recommendations, what we are looking at is a lighted, artificial turf fields. Eight of those that have the overlay that I spoke of and we will show you some graphics. With seating for 800. Those grass surfaces for those fields to overlay as well as then the outdoor BMX track. And if there is a future possibility of an indoor facility, but we did not really focus on that today is that is sort of a phase 2, future down the road. 
 
This is the proposed site at Bennett Park. And we overlaid on this slide, I can go back and forth here so you can see that is the same place. Those overlay fields, that can be both the rectangular fields and the softball/baseball fields. The future facility is suggested to be cited to this south of the end of the site and the BMX course is there in the middle left. 
 
And then we have the peer grass fields on the lower right. That is the site. 
 
In terms of market demand, what you are going to see here is that you do have a number of outdoor facilities. However, most of them are relatively small in terms of the number of things that they offer. The largest is (Name) Beach complex and that gets the most visitors. It has of course the most fields and diamonds. They are grass and not turf. That is by far the largest and it falls down pretty quickly from there. 
 
We have a lot of smaller, and really if you look at the visitation and business from over 100 miles and drops down pretty quickly after those first five that get over 200,000 per year. In terms of indoor, there really is not much in the local area in terms of more than three basketball or volleyball court in a single facility. 
 
In terms of regional indoor sports supply, if you are going 60+ miles out, we have some you can see of course that there are some big ones. ESPN Visa Center is the big one as well as the impeccable sports complex in Deerfield Beach which is of course quite a bit further south. These are all larger ones around the state. 
 
As you can see here on the map, most of those we have one under construction Panama City Beach area. But most of them are in central Florida. Those are the larger, indoor sports tournament facilities that I think you have to be very mindful of when looking to add anything. 
 
In terms of regional outdoor supply, you have boomba which is in Sandfort. Not that far away. And that is over a million visits per year and 51% of those come from over 100 miles away. They are doing some serious tourism there. You have the you triple essay sports complex and era West and ESPN sports which is of course the kingpin in Florida. Nearly 3 million visitors with 85% of those coming from over 100 miles away. 
 
 
… Definitely join a lot of tourists around from the state and nation. A lot of these larger regional facilities, that is what they are going to go after. As you can see most of these are actually grass as opposed to synthetic turf. But diamonds is the real…… All around the state and you can see there is that nice linkage at the Orange city project site right between Daytona and Orlando. 
 
I think that sort of Lays that out. 
 
I feel like I talked for a while so I will turn over to Lexi to keep going. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Just to run through some of the major conversations we had with tournament operators. What do they typically look forward? This one highlights baseball tournaments. It was noted that it is not only a great local demand, but there is also the regional demand for either ancillary sites that do have baseball diamonds to act as a complementary facility to put boomba that has those 15 diamonds. Being able to act as a player for the regional and larger tournaments, but then also catering to those local needs. Turf was also noted as a great positive, especially with the weather unpredictability in Florida. Rain delays and whether constraints are definitely something that grass and natural fields do require a lot more maintenance and upkeep and unpredictability as well. 
 
There was noted that there are a handful of tournaments being put on by you triple essay was in the Volusia County market - USSSA 
 
One being the one that New Smyrna Beach complex but also quite a few. Very familiar with the area and noted that strength of accessibility there. At our recommendation about 12 fields-- gets you to the primarily local and would be able to achieve some regional tournaments, but again, like Rob mentioned, catering to the local demand there. 
 
Then segueing into our demand and financial productions. In terms of event projections, and terms of the kind of overall complex with BMX in the traditional outdoor sports, taking a look at the outdoor sports first and foremost, projected to host around 16 events in year one, then reaching 35 events upon stabilization which is in year five. A lot of these facilities take a few years to ramp up and get secure in their operations. 
 
Reaching a kind of maximum ability of the 35 events upon stabilization for the traditional sports, which would be about 34 and 74 event days, based on the tournament but also event activity. 
 
Than the BMX facility is ejected to primarily host the practice days for the year, upon civilization about 150 days open to the public. With the option to kind of pay a one time fee using the facility, like a day pass for fitness centres, so to speak. 
 
Or having that season shareholder pass. Being able to pay a one-time fee for year-round use, really catering to the local needs and that market there. Then the national BMX tournaments or larger events, so to speak, would be 3 to 4 times a year, they rotate throughout the state and they have a plan to continue expansion of BMX facilities throughout Florida because of the demand. That being noted as a big strength there as well. 
 
In terms of attendance projections, rental hours during the week is projected to play the key role generating revenue for the facility but also, accommodating that local demand there. The projected number of total rental hours by service type is shown in the utilization projections there. Then average attendance by event type we use industry standards-- what the landscape really looks like. Your five that stabilization year being around 590,000 were nearly 600,000 visitors to just the outdoor traditional sports complex. 
 
And then taking a look at BMX, in terms of what the local demand would look like and also the seasoned passholders. We projected a season pass holder would have to go to the facility roughly 19 times to breakeven on a one-time fee-- and all of those kind of assumptions and projections flow into our Performa so we analyse the traditional outdoor sports complex separately from the BMX, just to show you how they operate a little bit differently. As you can see here, there is a slight operating deficit for the outdoor sports complex. I'm not sure if you want to touch on the fact that this is typical especially for a local use catered sports complex. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Like most racks and sports facilities, even those would be a Premier facility for that, they have operating deficit just like these facilities do, however, we have these pretty close to breaking even which would be almost 100% cost recovery from the parks and effective, if you went that route. There are also of course, SFC who run these facilities-- they charge a fee to do that but their goal is of course to maximize utilization. 
 
You have those choices downward. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Then taking a look at the BMX here. It is typical especially for these facilities in Florida to operate at a profit. We've a slight profit here in year five and about 24,000. This is based on the revenue projections and expenses. There is opportunity to potentially increase their revenue, depending on whether or not concessions are outsourced or if that is something that becomes in-house, that is some thing that it was noted by USA BMX, but they typically partner with the larger events, and they will take a portion of the writer entry fees, but also that concession parking revenue there. 
 
Looking at our economic, fiscal impact,-- do you want to talk about the trips and room nights? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Absolutely, for most of these is to be mostly day trips, a minority of folks would be coming for overnight stays or long enough that they would be overnighters. We looked at those I would stay in a hotel, but again, that is gonna be a minority of the folks. That what we do is we break that down into five different spending categories from launching retail, transportation and other and assign spending to those to Volusia County. If we look at that on the next slide, what you see is that a stabilization, you get 14 $15 million in annual net new direct spending. 
 
Because of the location of this nearly note of hotels that is outside the county, in a different county, a lot of that overnight spending will accrue to seminal but again, that is not really the focus is our understanding of this is more again quality of life for you all, but there is a significant impact to you community wise and just quality of life over time. We see here, over 30 years of half $1 billion. In terms of direct spent. 
 
We have a summary here of the development cost looking at about 41 or $42 million based on the estimates from today's dollars. A good chunk of that would be sent in the county, but not all of it. And some of that would be sourced from outside of the county, sales and other taxes generated both from the construction and the thirty-year operations look to a total of $4.3 million in local capture will taxes. 
 
That I believe,-- story, the cost estimates there, I gave it away, this was the cost estimate on that layout that we showed you earlier, about 41 1/2 million dollars. And I think, there we have it. Happy to answer any questions. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you, let's take question first. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Thank you, maybe you can come up as well because you might be able to help some of these. The total, I want to make sure I got this right, the total to bill this out-- the Westside representatives, and Mr. Johansson and also chairman, when you speak, if you don't mind telling me what kind of ask you have heard from your constituents for this. I know, and maybe this is normal because I don't represent more city. But I have not had anybody ask for this. From me. 
 
Now, to staff or the consultant, is the idea to charge anybody that is going to use the facilities? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Yes, there will be a permit fee for each use, whether it would be a lighted field that is a little more a daily use fee, but there would be a useful per hour of each usage. 
 
TROY KENT: 
Gotcha, I will say that in a minute. We will have other ballfields from municipalities nearby, may be Deltona or orange city themselves or DeLand, where there is no fee, they can go and hit a ball and play on their field, and no charge? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Let me explain that a little bit. If you as a father bring your son out and you want to hit a ball on one of the fields, as long as it is not pertinent, in other words, a Little League group-- then it is free. 
 
TROY KENT: 
And the BMX, I am looking here and I see grass fields a multipurpose field a future indoor facility and that is not part of the cost, by the way? 45 point million? A BMX course, it makes me think about something Councilman Dempsey always says, competing with the private sector. The other BMX sectors that are around,-- that map we had with all of those? 
 
SPEAKER: 
We have another BMX course in Stricklin Park-- that is the only on we have in Volusia County. 
 
TROY KENT:  
So, I am anxious to hear about the need from the community and how much they are asking for this. I do believe it is part of government's job, let me just say, and we can start-- I'm going to stop because this is questions, and I'm going to follow the process. The comments will come later, think of. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman San Diego. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Thank you. You proposed turf, can you tell me why? Tell me your methodology behind it? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Especially from usage projection, and based on that demand, the ability with turf you are able to play in any weather and any constraints, and that you have the ability to program it during the week, and also having tournament on the weekend, a lot of the time with the natural grass fields, they do kind of required that off time for maintenance, watering them, aching sure they are not being torn up, basically. It just allows for more usage of the week and also the tournaments, and with the weather, determine operators really do look for it, when they are looking to choose a facility to host a tournament at. 
 
Especially with Central Florida and the weather. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Will that give us a competitive advantage across the river? 
 
SPEAKER: 
For the natural fields? Yes, Boomba does have turf fields, they do have the turf hoped fields but also the clay fields, but also, I think it provides a competitive advantage to just a regular local parks and breakfast it event doesn't have that same offering or the level of quality. But also then being able to be that off-site host for those larger tournaments when they do need some extra fields in order to accommodate all of the team in demand. Right now they are turning teams away. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Would you say that the turf concept is part of their competitive advantage on whether it is successful? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Yeah, I would say so. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
If you look at any emerging sports activities or other things. I hate to be a follower, I like to be a leader. And are there any opportunities over there that maybe came on your radar, and can you tell us where we are at with those? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Yeah, we spoke to a lot of dedicated tournament operators, but also hearing how they will program fields during baseball off-season or off-peak season. With those rectangle field abilities, you can do soccer be you can also do flag football, you can do lacrosse and things that don't have as many, I would say, supply available to them on the year-round basis being able to have the flexibility it's not even just a dual ability to have more than one sport, but a multitude of sports and being able to really program it on a year-round basis. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Not to get sport specific what I've learned if I had an opportunity to go visit a couple facilities-- cricket seems to be getting very popular. I think in particular Fort Lauderdale, playing cricket, but it Fort Lauderdale, they have a pretty big successful facility from what I understand, that is soon going to be hosting a national worldwide event. Are you familiar with that? 
 
SPEAKER: 
I am familiar that cricket is still a bit of a niche that is growing around the country. Obviously, it has appearance around the world, especially in South Asia and so, as those communities continue to grow, the demand for that gross. It is a completely specific style of surface that is not necessarily going to be compatible with a lot of these other surface types. I think you would want to have a really strong feeling that it was can be full consistently to develop a pitch that you would want to use on a consistent basis. Did you hear anything else during urinalysis? -- Your analysis. 
 
SPEAKER: 
If you are just wanting to accommodate local demand, we have heard in conversations that they are able to play kind of on that typical soccer surface. It might not be regulated or preferred, but it is definitely something that would be turned away. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Is it contemplating multi-day events? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Yes. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I will stop for now. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Councilman Johansson. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Your diagrams, are they to scale? They appear to be hands-on, so I was curious. There is two baseball fields on the soccer field on one field. Are they to scale? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Generally, yes. He knows the dimensions, the design drew those. That is what will fit on that site. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Are those fields... Are they major-league fields? Are they softball fields? Are they people fields? That makes a lot of difference to me. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I don't have the exact dimensions Sunday. But we can get those to you. 
 
SPEAKER: 
The way we would design these fields, the keyword is flexibility. Different age brackets have a different home run to first base difference. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
I am aware of that. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Ok. These fields would be able to accommodate each of those eight records. There is pegs, things like that. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
I had a kid that plays baseball, a kid that play soccer throughout the state. And one of the issues is we talked about turf. Turf is great. You cannot make a major league baseball field into a Little League field, into a T-ball field, if you have turf. And maintain the same place surroundings. And then, by the way, successfully make it a competitive soccer field when you are overlaying it on a turf baseball field with clay. 
 
You are trying to stuff 10 pounds worth of sports into a 5 pound salt, is my fear. And the reason I say this is because, again, every summer, all we did was complain about that stuff. 
 
Additionally, I love turf because you put it down and you forget about it, basically, and it drains well. I hate turf because in the summer it is 20° hotter on the field and you have kids dropping, cleats melting, so is the return on investment worth the kids passing out on the cleats melting? I don't know. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Let me after that. We went to (unknown name), me and Suzanne and the complement of staff folks went to take a look at the fields over there, met with their leadership out there, talked about some of the things that you are talking about. The heat is for real. It is not make-believe. It is for real. 
 
When you walk onto that field, it middle of summer, you can feel the heat all the way up to your kneecap, how hot that field is. When you are on natural grass, it is different. However, I did ask the operators, "What would you rather have?" 
 
I thought natural grass would be the answer, and before I got the sentence out, it was artificial turf, hands down, if we had to do it will over again, it would all be artificial turf. 
 
Now, if you talk to the users, probably just the opposite, where they would rather play to the natural grass than on an artificial surface. 
 
But people have learned to play on both. You can definitely have a lot more activity from tournament play on an artificial turf than on eight natural turf. So there are benefits there for a hybrid, which is what we are kind of proposing here. You still have all that natural turf across the street. It is kind of a hybrid. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
A question for later, research, I would like to know what the injury rates are at your smartest turf soccer field versus every other city that probably uses grass. Because, having watch that for six years with my kid, somebody always got hurt in new Smyrna and the same teams were playing equally hard as -- on grass. That is something we need to think about. 
 
Lastly, $41.5 million. I guess that's the question. Thank you, Troy. 
 
TROY KENT: 
A couple questions. When Santiago was talking about turf, I'm thinking natural grass. Turf is grass. So when you say true, you are talking about artificial turf? And you call grass natural grass? 
 
SPEAKER: 
As an aside, there are places that will set up actual sprinkler systems to sprinkle their synthetic during the hottest times of the day to cool them down so that they can still use them during the afternoon, but there are some places in Kansas that they will just not allow... If it is 90+ degrees, they will not allow usage during the hottest two hours of the day, but they will still get mornings, late afternoons, night and start times. It still will have more ability to be used. If you can manage the heat, there are also cooling beads they have developed to put into the synthetic turf. 
 
Again, all of those things will be more in the weeds, no pun intended, as you look into the design of this. 
 
SPEAKER: 
They will start their tournaments at 7 AM in the hotter months. The teams don't have a problem with it because they get the cooler weather and they are able to play until the early afternoon. 
 
Sometimes if it is too hot and kids are dropping, that is not the goal of the tournament, so they will have the ability to resume when it is nighttime or when it is cooler out. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
When I was at University of Florida, it was artificial, and I would go out in the field, it was miserable, just as Jake said. 
 
But then we won a national championship, coach ripped all of that out and put natural grass in. It was a preference. 
 
You have gone back and forth a little bit on this is the primary focus, for local needs. And to answer your question, Troy, it has not been a huge thing that constituents have asked about, but it has been consistent, especially from a group of avid athletes in Orange city, delaying until turn area, which is west Volusia. So it is not something I hear a lot, but it is an item that has some public interest. 
 
You are focusing on serving the local base, the Volusia base, but you have said a couple of times we are going to lose money because people will go to Seminole County because there is not enough motels here. 
 
I am wondering, I would like for this to bring people in from those areas. They can get on some rail and right here, and play cricket. In your experience, when something like this is built, does it draw hotels and motels to be built in the area? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Funny you should ask. We do a lot of studies all over the place. To answer your first question, it is more of a policy decision how you want to orient the usage, but typically, it is local use during the week and tournament usage for father away, people coming in during the weekends. 
 
Obviously, if that is your idea, then you want to induce demand from out of county, and you will get it, it is just that back particular site is much closer to hotels in Seminole County than here. As it relates to this facility inducing the development of a new hotel, certainly proximity is key. The number of room nights is key, and how does it work seasonality wise? Luckily, seasonality is not as big an issue here as it would be in the Midwest or doing a study in Prince William County Virginia, where that is their question. 
 
If we built this eight court indoor facility, how many new hotels will be built? Basically, for that particular thing we said it would support 90 more hotel rooms in terms of if you divvied up room nights over the year. However, we know those room nights happen on weekends, so there may be the possibility, at least with that facility up there, that it might introduce more than that. Here, it is more modest, because we are dealing with a complex that just rises to the level of being competitive for tournaments. It is kind of a tween or as opposed to something that is a statewide or national play. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
I understand. Thank you. Good explanation. I am a little bit confused on the BMX. That does seem like more of a local draw and you approach it that way. But I think I read that BMX would be open for practice for use four days per week, which would be 280 days, but then you say it is 150 days. What is that There? 
 
SPEAKER: 
That is to be conservative in terms of our projections. Just to not overstate, you are going to attract 2 million people year round, where that is the base case in terms of local demand of what could be accomplished. You also want to factor in when there is no need for maintenance or during holidays if the facility is closed, that it is not going to be promised to be open 365 days per year. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
My last question is maybe not for right now, but the biggest consideration for me is going to be $41.5 million. At some point during this discussion, do you have any ideas about finding that? 
 
SPEAKER: 
That would be counsel decision. There is multiple mechanisms for financing these facilities. I think we are in a unique situation where we have echo dollars to support outdoor recreation facilities for our county. Other municipalities and counties around the country have used bonding or used a percentage of the TDC dollars. But I think ECHO, excuse me, could be used in this case for the direct County expenditure program. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Thank you. Councilman Dempsey. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
I guess I'm the first to address your concern, Troy. I bet you don't hear a lot from your constituents in Ormond, because you guys have 25 outdoor grass fields and baseball diamonds, whereas on the west side Deland, we have seven. You have more than three times what we have. 
 
SPEAKER: 
And Ormond paid for it. Ormond let the rubber meets the road and said, "We will fund this." And they did. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
That's great. You are meeting the demand of the youth over there. When this came up, like I told you guys over a year ago, my son used to practice adult league in storm water retention ditches because there wasn't enough ballfields to practice on. And I have had the head coach of the Deland dogs tell me... Yes I did (Laughs) We are left over here to play in stormwater ditches and pastures. For the sports. And we have no problem sending 10 or $15 million on SunRail and we subsidize all that but when it comes to subsidizing views activities keeping them out of the basement of their houses complain Nintendo all day. The little kids like we grew up as. The other thing, you may not know about it but staff knows, I disagree with your numbers. You have caused me a lot of heartache over the motocross facility with the $10.3 million price tag. 
 
I don't, I can't believe this would be $41 million. I would like to know where you guys got 41 million. How does it cost two and half million to build a BMX track? 
 
SPEAKER: 
So, our design consultant prepared these numbers and we would leave it to them and I would say everybody thinks that things should cost less than they do, every meeting that we go to, people are shocked that things cost double what they thought they should. It is a reality. Obviously you will find out when you have it figured out. There is also a lot of water there so you may actually have to bring in, I am not a hydrologist, I am not anything but I would say this might be a low number. I don't know. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
This might be a low number? 
 
SPEAKER: 
If you have to raise the dirt and ground to keep from the water table. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
How big is the track? 
 
SPEAKER: 
I don't have the dimensions. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
50 yards in length by about 10 yards wide? Sorry, about 15 feet wide? Five yards wide? And it is 2 1/2 million to pile dirt in clumps? 
 
SPEAKER: 
You are talking about a premier facility sanctioned by USA BMX. They have requirements. Obviously, we all hope it is less. And that would be, we always say the next phase after the feasibility study is the business planning phase where you get into a lot more detail and sausage making on the business plan. Though I think that is a great set of questions to ask how can we contain costs on these kinds of things. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
You are the expert. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I am not a cost expert. It is a subcontractor that put that number there. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
Your name is attached to the proposal. Two and half million dollars to do a 50 yard x 15' wide run of dirt is what you're saying. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I am just letting you know,... 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
Where did you come up with 24 1/2 million dollars for eight soccer field? Where are the quotes and estimates? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Those are based on comps and when you do a lighted synthetic field, years ago they were almost $2 million per field. They are overlay fields with the rectangular field over the baseball/softball fields, synthetic turf, lights and it is all specialized. 10 years ago it was $2 million per field so I'm not surprised were over $3 million for a complicated feel now. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
Do you know what Ormond paid to have their field built? 
 
SPEAKER: 
In what year? 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
Did you look at comparables to see what they had them to build. 
 
SPEAKER: 
The subcontractor would look at that and give you the numbers based on what is being priced and built in today's marketplace. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
So the answer is no, you did not. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I am not saying that, I am saying construction cost and general inflation have gone up 30% since COVID. Whatever your basis is, you are going to go into the marketplace when you go into the marketplace and get your bids. And I mean, I would invite you to dive deeper into that in the next phase if you believe it is a worthy project to see if you can get it figured out. The feasibility study was not to do a down and dirty on the cost. It was to give you a high level order of magnitude number so you could start debating whether or not it was worth a public policy decision to invest this type of dollars into this type of facility. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
So where did you get the four grass rectangular fields, $750,000 to plant grass. On an acre of land. 
 
SPEAKER: 
My answer will be the same for all of your questions. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
Do you understand my concern? Your price tag of $41 million is scaring these guys and may have a ripple effect of this being turned down not because of a lack of needs, but because of the sticker shock of 41 1/2 million dollars based on numbers that we really don't have any, what I see as any type of rationalized basis. These are just numbers out of the air. And not really based on anything in my opinion. 
 
SPEAKER: 
That is your opinion. I appreciate it. All I know is that I would love to be the guy that says this is what it costs and you got it for less but I can tell you every study we have done over the last five years when they go out and get the numbers, unfortunately our numbers are too low. We tried to hit it as best we can based on very little information on a feasibility study that was focused on market and financial feasibility and not cost. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
What cost feasibility studies have you done in the past couple of years. 
 
SPEAKER: 
This is an order of magnitude study, we don't do cost feasibility studies. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
How many times have you given project cost of a BMX track elsewhere in Florida. 
 
SPEAKER: 
We talk to people in the business to get those numbers. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
Where their numbers? It is not part of the report. 
 
SPEAKER: 
We can let you know where we got those. We did not make them up. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
OK, that is all thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Troy Kent? 
 
TROY KENT: 
Tim, do you have enough employees to run this and if the answer is no, are you planning on hiring them if the answer is no, how much money are we planning on giving, I'm sorry, providing to accompany to collect our money? 
 
SPEAKER: 
So, first question, no. Facility like this, for instance Bennett on the other side of the Veterans Memorial Parkway, we've got eight fields there. And I've got .33 FTE per field. And we are the lowest in the county. In terms of FTE per field. 
 
When I am looking at (Unknown term) it is one FTE per field meaning 15 fields equals 15 bodies. If we were to meet in the middle on the new facility, 12 fields, about six bodies. That would be added to the FTE we have now. 
 
TROY KENT: 
Gotcha, that is not included in the 41.5 million? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Correct. What is also not included as equipment. And let me add something to the previous piece here. You know, if we are looking at the 41 five is a deal breaker, you all will be getting a crack at this on a competitive bid and then you will know exactly where it is at based on the market. Because we can scope it, put out a design/build bid. And it comes back before you before we spend any money so you know exactly at that point. So trying to make a decision on the 41.5 might not be important but what is important if you like the program, the process, the concept. The rest of it we can go and tackle and those costs come before you again that are competitively bid. 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
I get what you are saying. I am not going to argue with you over it but the price tag is hugely important when you are the person saying yes or no to the taxpayer dollars and you are held accountable for it. 
 
I will say Don, just because misery loves company, 21 years ago we were putting in a restroom, men and women's restroom in Ormond Beach and the price was $100,000 for two restrooms. Not gangway restrooms, two individual restaurants, 21 years ago 100,000. I lost my mind.  
21 years ago you could've built two houses for that. I will say last piece. If we put an RFP out for 41 1/2 million someone will come in and bid 41.44 
 
SPEAKER: 
Someone said to build a top class facility would be (Indiscernible). Also what was included was, it wasn't it's own line item because of the wetlands issue but if you could find a dry site it would save you a lot of money. The wetlands issue they included a generous allotment for site prep and wetlands mitigation that will inflate or cause the numbers to seem more inflated than you would like. 
 
SPEAKER: 
first question is for you if I could. How much will it negatively impact the current facility we have? 
 
SPEAKER: 
I did meet with our current president of the BMX operator at Strickland Park. And there was a concern. So, we did understand from our discussions with Hunden is that USA BMX believes there would not be an impact. It would be an add-on will stop they get about 30 riders or so per night on practice Monday through Thursday and then there are some races on the weekend. 
 
The USA BMX believes that would still occur and additional activity would happen at the other track. So there is not this cannibalism going on. 
 
SPEAKER: 
The reason I asked that is that someone brought up the hotel. Hotel industry. We have them over here. It may drop more of that currently over here but obviously if you have a new facility want them to take advantage of that but they will spend their dollars in Seminole County for those hotels because they are closer. 
 
SPEAKER: 
There are nine, if you look at the study deeper, there are nine hotels, just under 600 hotel room so there would be leakage. Depending on the size of the event there might be leakage over to... 
 
SPEAKER: 
It is a state of the art facility were talking about building and there might be more drawn to that. I understand that it is for the purpose of getting those kids out doing something and the entertainment value it brings but being involved in tourist dollars and sitting as chairman on the TDC I look at it from a tourist perspective as well and what revenue it brings back to the county. Lighting, you mentioned that. When you said the tracks or ball fields or that they would pay a higher premium for nighttime. Does that cover the entire cost of lighting? Because FPL rates go up and down. 
 
SPEAKER: 
When you look at the rate per hour for a ballfield lit, when we initially set prices which there is a $10 difference between the normal rate plus if you are renting it at night it is an extra 10 bucks. And it is per hour. So that one hour is less than the $10 we collect. If you go LED it saves you about 20 to 25% of your electric bill. Going from incandescent to LED... 
 
SPEAKER: 
On the artificial turf what is below that, forgive my ignorance? What is the surface underneath that? That causes the heat is... 
 
SPEAKER: 
The cooling beads is what they put amongst the turf to keep it cool but it is really just the fact that there is no heat absorption, it ounces the heat back and the light back. 
 
SPEAKER: 
It is regular ground? Not a harder surface? 
 
SPEAKER: 
It is very specially prepared. I don't know... It has to be prepared obviously I am not an expert. But the heat part is it is grass that absorbs the sunlight and it is nice and cool. 
 
SPEAKER: 
The cooling beads I was confused on that, it was an option? That may increase the cost as well because you are talking about multiple fields that would have to have this, correct? If we chose that. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Correct. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Heating is an issue. Mr Johansen, actually was talking about his son playing on the ballfield over in Seminole County and the fact that oftentimes these kids are under these extreme heat issues and medical personnel is needed. I am always worried about that element and if it is a County facility we have to take it into consideration and think about that. 
 
SPEAKER: 
100%. I will say there are many complexes with more fields. Your little constraint on space here but some will have some synthetic, some natural. So the players of course like the natural but you have to let them heal and repair and replant seat and all that. So, that could be an option if you have more space to spread out.  
 
SPEAKER: 
How long to the turf fields lasts out of curiosity? 
 
SPEAKER: 
I want to say 10 years. 
 
SPEAKER: 
You cannot give the projected cost of what it will be to replace it 10 years from now. And drainage, that is part of the infrastructure part. There is drainage built-in. 
 
SPEAKER: 
There is nice drainage and all of that. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Ok, thank you very much. Appreciate it. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Councilman Santiago. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Thank you, Mr Chair. I want to bring this back to why we brought up this whole topic. Can you talk from a Parks and Recreation perspective. Can you give us your synopsis of the need in this area? 
 
SPEAKER: 
We have Pfc. (unknown name) in Orange city. You have three little fields, Lakefield, to soft ball fields and two multipurpose field which share the outfield of the two softball fields. We have that site utilized. They are in daylight right now. You will not see activity out there. From 4:30 PM till 9 PM or 10 PM at night, every field is packed. 
 
Every field, especially the soccer fields, are heavily burdened and trying to keep up with the turf, turning people away because they cannot play. Those are the kind of issues that brought this need up. That is why we are here. In addition to it being one of your mission statements for your goals, right? So that is where we are at in terms of meeting the need that we have in Southwest Volusia and meeting the mission of the Council. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Safety say that we have a huge shortage based on the population? So there is a need. We can check that box. 
 
I don't go around surveying people for this. I am involved a little bit in the parks. My 81-year-old father still plays in the senior league and I hear all the time from them. And the young players two. 
 
... He plays picture. I'm trying to get him to play cricket, it is safer. I hear from the seniors, and I hear from some of the other ballplayers there that they struggle. They go to Seminole County sometimes. There is a struggle there. I cannot speak for every sport. But I have heard it. particulars to West Volusia. It is confirmed by our Parks guy. 
 
The hotels conversation, I think we don't not invest because someone will spend a portion of their money across the river. We have to invest and try to be visionary for people who live here, but when people invest in hotels and stuff like that, they want to see what is happening in the area with the hopes that they come and invest over here to capture that market. I wouldn't necessarily put that... 
 
I'm just speaking. You weren't the only one who said it. I wouldn't make that as our niche. It is important to think of, and the economic impact. But I think the economic impact analysis that showed around year four and five is when it started leveraging out. It did account for the fact that we do have a shortage in hotel facilities. So that is accounted for in the numbers. 
 
I don't think we spoke enough about funding sources. I do not know the 40 million, 20 million, I don't know. But I think we need to get to the next level. Funding sources are important. Brad, you spoke about ECHO money. We are unique has one of the counties that has access to those funds. 
 
How could ECHO contribute? Can you give us a synopsis on how ECHO can contribute to that? And what it could potentially offset over time? I know that's a loaded question. 
 
SPEAKER: 
One of the things for Council's consideration, when we talked about hourly rentals. The team did the analysis and those rental fees offset the cost of operating these facilities. And that is what they are proposing here, just on a larger scale. The revenue will offset the cost of operations. Really, it is counsel's prerogative on the amount of ECHO dollars considered part of this process.  
 
What may be helpful to counsel is, if you give us direction like with the motorcross facility to come back with some options in terms of if we want to phase this project and meet local needs first. Him and I have had this discussion. This would what it would look like in phase 1, and then we meet local needs and then grow organically based on not projections, but real demand. 
 
So that is a more incremental approach that we would propose to counsel. The other end is the whole hog approach. Go big or go home is what I read in this report, if you are going to go that route in terms of tournaments. In that sense, I recommend exploring a P3 option, a public-private partnership where we engage private investors with, also, those initial conversations of hotels. How will that come about as part of this facility as well? 
 
They mentioned leakage, but very transparent about 24% of those room nights, would be in Volusia County. A small amount. But if we had a P3 partnership there are firms that specialize in securing investors and shepherding us through the process. This will be two options and we would hope to come up with something in the middle as a hybrid for your consideration. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Thank you for that. I will talk little bit about what I can propose. Hopefully we can go next. But ECHO, could this be categorized as exceptional? 
 
SPEAKER: 
That's the grants and aid program. It provides you the opportunity to do a direct County expenditure, which is your judgment in terms of the amount and how much. The ballot initiative also gives you the authority to bond up to 14 million, I believe, for ECHO. 
 
But yes, this would be an exceptional project. If you use the parameters of countywide importance, it will serve a significant number of people. This meets that criteria. One thing to add to Tim's comment, if you read some of the themes from the interviews, we have a lot of people traveling to new Smyrna because there is no field availability on the west side. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
How much do we have in ECHO? Noncommitted. 
 
SPEAKER: 
15 million. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Not suggesting using at all, just asking general questions. Bonding authority up to 40, you said. One moment, Mr Chair. 
 
I think there is definitely questions to be answered, and I think on has often been critical of estimates. I appreciate you questioning those estimates, but we will not find out what those really are and to WeCo, potentially, to the next phase where it gives you more direction saying maybe phase this, do the local impacts first, but with an intention to phase it, the overall design concept and what the hard costs will then be. Then, potentially, then you can come forward and see potential funding sources to phase I, phase II or the entire project, right? We are also contemplating possibly going to the state. 
 
SPEAKER: 
When I was in clay, it took us a few years but we got 3 million state appropriation to build a complex that was similar in size. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Next session might be unique for us also with the people that are going to be in control of the purse strings. I think Volusia can definitely capitalize on some of the individuals that are representing us there. We have to make our economic case to them. I think that is a potential. 
 
41 scared me too, but it is all relative to what we want to do, right? We want to build two fields, 10 fields, 20 fields are everything, the costs are today's costs. You cannot build two homes for $100,000 anymore, like you were describing. 
 
SPEAKER: 
As good staff members, we anticipated Don's perspective and we did an analysis of what the costs are across the region. They are pretty on point on that number in terms of comparisons of what has been developed. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I'm just making the argument the costs are the costs. I think a worthy example is if you put out 41 million, it is going to be 40.999, but I would expect our staff at the same time to say this soccer field was built for 1 million and you got 1.5 million here. Why? I do that analysis. 
 
I will hear the rest of the comments or questions, but I think the need is there, the costs are the costs. Do we want to address the need is what we want to decide? How far do we go to address the need? We will not know until we give staff the direction to look at the next level. I think this is too important to kill it. We owe it to the constituents. I think this will have a broad Volusia impact, but especially West Volusia. We owe it to them to find out more details and some staff in some direction to the next level so we can make those decisions when we have better numbers and a better plan. 
 
I ask as we go through that we do not kill it, we get it to the next level to be more knowledgeable in the final decision. Thank you, Mr Chair. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Councilman Robbins. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
I have been in the private sector long time. It's like the golden egg, I have seen all this. I don't think we can eat this off in one bite. David brings up some good points. Brad hit the nail on the head as well. Prioritizing breaking this down, ball fields are at a shortage. We are traveling right now, we can hardly find fields. 
 
It is a nightmare. Anything from parking, going anywhere locally. There is no fields. 
 
I think it is very worthy of addressing this and seeing how we can break this down and maybe put it on a timeline to say we want to build two fields right now. In a couple years, let's build another two. Funding wise, our economic development, I don't know if we are able to use that as an option to combine, kind of like what we do in and around the airport. We own a lot of those properties and lease them to businesses, restaurants, hotels to support the airport. 
 
I don't know some of that is feasible here, but I think there is a lot of options that we can take care. I think scratching this thing and letting this number scare us would be very shortsighted, in my opinion, but looking at the structure of this and how we put this together, I think this can be a long-lasting, very fruitful endeavor for our kids. As government, we spend money on a lot of stupid things. This isn't one of them. 
 
Don, I will support you and however you want to handle it. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
It seems like we have gone from questions to debate. Which is good, I don't have a question left. I wanted to put it into debate and decision anyway. But Don, I will tell you that I don't think there is any question that there is a current need in West Volusia. 
 
One of the issues, Troy brings it up a lot, sometimes counsel will wait 15 years to direct staff to raise a fee somewhere and then you have this huge fee increase that looks really lopsided. So now we are going to ask staff to consider catching us up and maybe we can do that in one fell swoop. I don't know. 
 
What I hope is that we will hear a motion to bring back to the Council from staff, real cost based on putting out RFPs or local cost. Do we do it incrementally? Give us some options. Do we do it step-by-step? And will there be public, private partnership? Which would be nice. 
 
When we were talking about how to spend money to attract new companies, I think this is one of those ways. This is economic development. Companies will come here, wealthy companies will hire a lot of people, they want to come to a place where there is something for employees to do, places to go and places for their children to go. Places for young entrepreneurs to go. 
 
I think, in concept, it is good. It is the price tag that we all have to consider. So let's look at that. That's what I hope that we end up with. Next, we have County manager, George Recktenwald.  
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
Brad said some of the items I was going to say. You could look at the scoping of this and do some sort of a phased approach, I was already there when I saw the price tag a while back. We can look at the needs of the leaks that are out there now I think that is the high priority. I think it could be expanded and add some of the other more expensive amenities but again, what I have in -- without having competitive pricing it's hard to forecast that. I've spent a career in the private sector in construction and a long time here as well. Building a ball field is not the same as your yard. There is a lot to it. There is a lot of drainage. Your grading to a tabletop accuracy. There are things underneath usually, drainage and things like that.  
 
So when you get into it it is not just site work, I've asked to look at some of the recent projects around here, Stetson University has built some recent ballfields. So we will take a look and look at the other projects out there and make sure they are in line. They always do that and will continue to do that stop and look at ways maybe we can save money. 
 
I would like to point out the property was bought out there at Bennett I think it predates my time here, well over 30 years. And they have put part of it in and that is what we have been working with for these years. But they had the foresight to get the other property. I remember at the time before I was here, remember reading it in the paper, was controversy about what they paid to get the property and it is an advantage we have today, we are not buying property. There is one advantage already we have a site and it was paid for a long time ago. 
 
So, another thing when we look at the estimates, always keep in mind as well, they are projecting several years out usually about three years. Right now construction inflation has been at the worst that I have seen it. So I think that is the other thing, things could slow down and there is some cooling going on so there is optimism that it won't be at that number as well. So, we can definitely scope it and put some (Indiscernible) in there and get some ideas about what the real cost would be and come back and say this is really what we want to spend.  
 
By the way, we know that people try to build to the budget so we are aware of that as well so when we put out the budget, we often try to make sure that they are working for what we can really afford and that goes out there, not just a $40 million number. We do realize that people do that. So we compensate for that. That's all I have. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Vice Chair Troy Kent. 
 
TROY KENT: 
So, there was discussion earlier that these would be major-league sides fields or Little League or T-ball, I think it is important to state at this point, there is a drop off every time you move up to the next level of players. But your T-ball fields have to be premium. They have to be the best. Start with. 
 
Because they are little kids, it is the parents first look at what you have to offer. It is the kids first look at what they are playing on. So you don't want ratty fields where you get a bad bounce on a ball hitting a kid. I say they have to be the best because beyond that, all the other ones have to be equally as good. Because they expect that from you. If you are going to build it you have to do it the right way. 
 
So we have about $15 million in ECHO, I heard that. Don, I wanted to touch on one thing. You mentioned Orman having 25 fields, we don't we have 41 fields. And you're asking why am earning that up? And I am an honest guy and I played on the (Indiscernible) recreation fields as a kid. We have 25 at the sports complex, 10 at nova recreation. And Ormonde paid for all of those.  
 
I look at Port Orange and I think they have 17, (Unknown name) has seven, Orange City has six. These ECHO dollars, should the conversation segue into talking to our partner cities and saying hey, Orange City, there is a need in your area. And just being transparent, I have not heard of a need except for listening to you gentlemen here and I believe you 1000%. 
 
So, going to orange city, going to DeLand and saying there is a want for this, apparently, let's use your property, let's commit ECHO dollars to you and let you have some skin in the game, city, cities. I think it is a conversation that we should talk about a little bit. My belief, co-responsibility of your government, Volusia County government, you deserve clean water, great roads to drive on. The best public safety we can offer and then leisure services. And art and public places. That is what defines a community and makes you want to live there. Not just the good water and the smooth roads and the good public safety but the extras that you can go and participate in. I think that is important. 
 
I like the turf or your maintenance dollars on it but I like grass for every other reason will stop I will get that out there for everybody. I think grass is better and it was interesting to me that the price tag 41.5 million we will recoup it in nine years and did you pick up on how long the turf is good for? 10 years. It was a great question because I didn't think about that. But we are back into buying more turf at that point. And I think that stuff is pretty expensive. 
 
And let me just check and see, anything else. I think we really need to tap into our west side cities and help them provide these services in their core communities because you've got this in Orange City but that is a bit of a drive for people on the west side. We might be able to do several of these. I have a minute left, Tim, how many multipurpose ballfields and grass field is this for $41.5 million. And then I'll take 2.5 million for the BMX. 
 
SPEAKER: 
There are eight artificial turf fields and four natural grass fields. 
 
TROY KENT: 
We are looking at (Indiscernible) dollars per field. I think we can help solve the problem with the partnership of our municipalities and say here. And by the way I am not going to hold, I'm not get a hold and say "we owe Port Orange and we owe Ormond Beach and new Smyrna because they did theirs on their own." That is not what I am saying. From this point forward we can assist and help with things like Echo and things like that. Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Johansson. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Another question, I think David I would like to make a motion if that is OK and I will probably cobble it up but I'll give it a shot. I would like to make a motion that staff investigate all options for building a sports complex, all options being a phased approach, a total approach including different locations that may involve cities. And different funding streams that may involve cities, ECHO, state and any other OPM you can come up with. Does that sound clear as mud? 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
We can definitely work with that. 
 
TROY KENT: 
A second it because you said OPM, the other people's money piece. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
And then, there is a second and now we are in discussion, can I keep going? The things I, the goodness here, I did the traveling distance from (Unknown term) to Orange City is about 30 minutes driving. I have driven as far as 40 minutes for a morning travel ballgame and an afternoon travel ballgame down in the Fort Myers area. So, traveling 30 minutes to have a big tournament is doable for families of travel ball soccer and baseball. I don't see that as an issue. And what I appreciate out of it and will talk about tourism here, I know but we can staff, now we can be and additional field that all these sanctioned bodies are doing tournaments and we can, they can increase their amount of teams available and make it well worth our while. I like orange city. I do think it's important, did you want to say something? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Let's supplement and thank Rob and Nikki because they had the conversations where they could use us as overflow a few times per year. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
There have been plenty of people turned away. I think the phasing plan is important. I tend to agree somewhat with councilmember Kent on the funding. Ormond, Port Orange, new Smyrna, DeLand, they all approached the county for ECHO funds to pay for baseball fields. And they have skin in the game. In the this field we are building, is going to be countywide but I guarantee you the new Smyrna Little League is not going to go to orange city to practice. The majority of the practices are going to be travel all practice fields. Because I have traveled to orange City for travel balls before. I think that is how it will end up and I want to make sure that the cities have a stab at having a little bit of skin in the game because it is a majority of their kids and some unincorporated kids that will be going to these things. So I think that is important. I want to make sure that our ECHO dollars or whatever dollars we use are used wisely because there are some people that will be taxed twice and never use the facility or not often. 
 
And that's about it. I think soccer has the same added value as a baseball. I appreciated thank you very much. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Santiago. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Thank you for making the motion, think it moves us forward. I wanted to mess with Troy little bit. Not to be adversarial, I think Ormond has done a great job. I think the challenge that the West Volusia has had is that the city is not quite as old. Ormond was incorporated in 1950. I don't know if this is right, Port Orange assesses 1867. They've had more time to grow and plan and to bury is new, Orange City is not what is new but newer and Deltona is 1995. They have had struggles and I like your idea to find a way to get skin in the game. Because it will serve the constituents for the entire region. How do we do that?  
 
I think that mentality is good for all of us. This particular site in mind was, back in the day, going to be a conference center and it was called the partnership center. So it is not lost on that location for the cities to play ball. No pun intended. 
 
I think that approach is good, however I like the regional approach of a complex because it gives us the added value of being a venue that can have an economic impact versus three ball fields for Deltona, three for this city. 
 
Let's think about where we get the best return for a value. And the site, also, I don't know of any other sites that have the potential of the site. It is right near I-4, in between the three or four cities in that region, and hopefully, one day, we will have the Rhode Island extension that will go over I-4 and have some type of service exit that people can get in the back door. It's got a lot of future potential. 
 
I think the concept is good, but I don't know if we'll find anything that matches those boxes. And it is easy to get down to from Samford but has overflow support services. And it has puppies around it that can turn into hotels. 
 
Thank you, Jay, for the motion. I think you covered all the bases. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Jake? 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
One last comment. A lot of places we go to have mandatory hotels, if you can somehow throw that into the feasibility, or the next step, I appreciate it. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
We have a motion on the floor. The motion, I think, is the one we were all hoping for, to investigate every option. Is it phased? Do we do it all at once? Is it a different location? And then investigate all funding streams. We do have members of the public that want to speak to this before we vote on it. The first one is John Brandt. You stayed until the very end. 
 
SPEAKER: 
This is about the BMX track. My name is John Brandt. Two years ago, I bought my vision of a world-class skate park to Deltona. It would be around 50 acre, that is room for a racetrack, skate park, mountain bike trails, kitty bike park, campground and so much more. The park would be a place for writers of all ages, disciplines and skill levels, from beginner to pro. It would have scary drums for the kids to like taking risks. 
 
Other than the motocross track, that's really all we've got, but here, we can get the wild kids who have nothing to do, they are not in regular sports and don't want to be. They want to go out and do something fun on their own without a coach screaming at them. Unfortunately, they will have their parent screaming at them. We have all seen that. So instead of stealing kids, we can have these kids posting videos of themselves doing backflips, 360s, and something that will not end them up in jail. 
 
The BMX track proposed is a great location, but it doesn't serve residents of Deltona. My goal is to expose 100,000 people to extreme cycling. This may even spark investors to start investing in hotels. It may be the last piece of the puzzle to get them to start, because they haven't been going. 
 
I recommend we delete the BMX from (unknown name) Park and take the bike park concept back to the drawing board and find a way to make the complete bike Park into Deltona. I would like to thank you for spending money on this idea, I am tickled to death. 
 
I am looking forward in Deltona to giving these kids something to do. There is nothing for them in Deltona. But thanks to counsel, thank everybody. If you have questions later on, I have been in BMX racing for 11 years with my son. I watched him go from an eight-year-old when we first got out there and we were volunteering. I have been volunteering at tracks the whole time. In the rebuild of Daytona four years ago, there was a dozen of us including the president of the Association. 
 
The 12 of us got together and we rebuild that track into a phenomenal little jewel. It is just a perfect little spot. What we are proposing is not going to take away. If we build a BMX track in Deltona or even orange city, it will not take anybody away from there because you know what it's like to go down I-4 in the evenings. 
 
SPEAKER: 
How much did it cost? 
 
SPEAKER: 
That was volunteer work. I spent two weeks on my tractor out there. I don't know. It is volunteer work. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I have his phone number. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Lisa (unknown name)? Ok. John Nicholson. I didn't know John did BMX. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Not in the last hundred years, anyway. John Nicholson, Daytona Beach site. A couple of things. Daytona Beach has 600 acres a few feet from this, right? Not 10 minutes. They are planning on 15-20 ballfields. Would it affect your ballfields? I didn't hear it mentioned whatsoever. 
 
They've got a study out, they are looking at what they want to put into it. When I get home, I will recommend that we talk to the county, because there is no sense in over supplying ball fields for tournaments. It doesn't make sense. There is only limited time but baseball, softball happens. If you have all of these fields all trying for the same number of people at the same time... 
 
Secondly, I wasn't happy with the idea of sending all our money to Seminole County. I mentioned more than once that we have hotels in Daytona Beach. Several, as a matter of fact did I think 12,000 hotel rooms, which is nothing to stare at. That would be enough to do any baseball tournament, softball or soccer. Probably not cricket though. 
 
I know we could soccer in Miami 70 years ago, soccer was the new thing. It was going to take over football. It has been 70 years, and it's still just barely getting there. So cricket, and about 70 years, we will need cricket fields. (Laughs) Give or take. 
 
I know it is only $40 million, it doesn't sound like a lot. Dawn had a hissy fit over just 10 million. But the 40 million or 41 million is not really 41 million with a 10% override, with water beads, with the truckloads of dirt, and the inflation, it will only be 50 million. And that's not the whole thing, because then you have to at the $100 million for the other facility that you are not talking about. 
 
So this complex, $150 million, I think we'll get some people's attention, alright, in the middle of nowhere with no hotels. 
 
I understand they are talking about local. But the locals cannot pay for this. And they will refuse to pay for it. So you need the outside to come in and pay for these fields. And I found out that the city of Daytona Beach just renovated a park for the locals, only they look it up because they do not want to destroy it. So we have fields that we lock up. We have four baseball fields that we lock up so the locals cannot use it so they do not destroy it. 
 
How often is this going to open up? Or will you lock them up so the locals can't use it? Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Thank you. Counsel, we have a motion on the table, and those were all good points that John brought up. Fortunately, they were all covered by Jake Johansson's motion, which included investigating all options, including city participation. Because we don't want to build right next door to Daytona Beach, including funding from private sources. What with the public, private participation be? Do we do it phased? All in one swoop? Do we look at different locations? 
 
And then give us options for different funding sources. 
 
So it was a pretty comprehensive motion here, but... Did I cover all your points? Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Nicholson, for bringing that up. But I just wanted you to know, and all of us to realize that will all be part of the consideration. 
 
All in favor of that motion please say aye? Any opposed? Motion carries 7-1. We are already on item 6. 
 
SPEAKER: 
It cannot carry 7-1. It can carry 6-1 or 7-0. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Did I say 7-1? I was considering that Don's heart really wasn't in it. 
 
(Laughter) 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Item 6, proposed vacation.... 7-0. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Requesting the vacation of third (unknown name) and Highridge Estates plat. It is a 50 foot right-of-way for both of them. Neither one has improved. I1C zoning. Staff recommends approval. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Counsel in Santiago moves to approve, seconded by Johansson. Any questions? Any debate? All in favor, say aye. Any opposed? This one carries 7-0. 
 
Item 7, another proposed vacation. You are heading in the right direction. 
 
SPEAKER: 
The vacation of utility easement along the backside of a property. These were rededicated as part of the original plot, it is approximately .06 acres. There are no utilities within the easement. We recommend approval. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Is there a motion? Motion to approve by David Santiago. This is a quasi judicial hearing. Does anyone have any ex parte to declare? Jake Johansson seconded. Questions? Debates? All in favor say aye. Motion carried 7-0. 
 
Ordinance 2024 – 03 small-scale comprehensive plan amendment. Clay, are we going to do a timeline together. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Yes, sir. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Let's start before you begin. Is there any ex parte to declare on item 8 or nine? 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Yes on nine. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Same for me. Spoke with the attorney. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I believe Michael Woods met with many of you. This is the one on (unknown name). 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Yes. I think all of us but Troy Kent. Ok, Clay? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
As we discussed I will address a comprehensive plan amendment affecting the future land use map designation of the property. As well as related rezoning to PUD. The current property has designation of rural and is looking to go to urban low intensity and commercial stop the property is located at the northwest corner of State Road 44 and grand Avenue. The aerial shows it is currently being utilized for planted pine. There is basically two parcels identified there. The nexus -- next is a location map of where it is located in what is around it. This shows you the current future land use map designation. What is the proposed.  
 
Green represents rural which allows upward of one unit per acre up to five and urban low intensity allows up to four units per acre and commercial has a floor area ratio as well that is tied into the limitations of the comprehensive plan. It is 42.36 acres and as we talked about, under the theoretical maximum they could do 153 dwelling units and 75,000+ square feet of commercial uses. The associated rezoning to planned unit development has a limitation of 121 homes on 50 and 60 foot wide lots and roughly 36,000 ft.² of commercial retail use that could be allowed in the area. 
 
We did have, we as staff looked at the proximity of the property to the proposed land SunRail station and looked at the intensity of development around it. It is served by utilities by the city of DeLand and we see it is an area that can be allowed to be developed for these more intensive uses be a complement to the TOD area immediately to the cells. Also, as part of the rezoning, you will see that the concept plan if I could have the presentation for the... Rezoning. We would be able to integrate the proposed rail system, excuse me trail system into the project as well. What you are seeing is the applicant has addressed the factor of proximity to transit and proximity to the trail system. 
 
There was questions involved -- regarding visibility and there is to the West and overpass with a railroad and there was concern that the elevation change would create perhaps a site visibility issue. The applicant has provided us with review comments from their traffic engineer that has been sent onto our staff. They do not see necessarily a site visibility issue but they will work in regards to the appropriate location of both the access points from State Road 44 as well as what limitations could be done and incorporated there as part of what is being done to the south and the existing to the east. 
 
The comprehensive plan amendment and rezoning to PUD came to the planning and land development commission with the recommendation of approval. There was a public hearing. It was a resident of the area who objected to the proposed intensification there. There was an understanding that there could be some views of higher impact but there was concerns with it. 
 
Initially, the recommendation was a tide boat so it would have been denied but the planning and land development reconsidered and it is coming to you with a four – two recommendation for approval. If there are questions for staff we are available. The applicant is here. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
A couple of questions probably that you can handle. Does this area have a watershed study? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
When you say watershed, you are talking about a basin study that we have done as part of the storm water? I don't know, I would have to defer to Ben on that, Ben Bartlett as to whether there is one for this area. Again, this would have to go through the storm water management review to the staff as well as St. Johns River water management. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
I was talking about the comprehensive plan chapter 9, watershed study. Is this area DeLand Ridge or St. John's? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
I believe it is part of the DeLand Ridge but again, I would have to confer with Ben Bartlett. Let me check with that and provide you with a more detailed answer on that. But basically, again, what is referencing is that there is a requirement in our stormwater drainage element that we have basin studies. We have completed the urbanized areas as required by the comprehensive plan to ensure we have those basins well delineated. As part of the money that you approved as part of the increase in stormwater fee will be updating the basins studies as well as expanding into areas that are on the cusp or in the process of being urbanized. 
 
I can double check with Ben and get you an answer after I have talked with him as to whether or not he has a basin study on that or not. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Ben Bartlett public words director, this area is on the edge of the DeLand Ridge in the St. John's area and we have studies in both locations overall basin studies. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
You have the studies in both? 
 
SPEAKER: 
They were included in the information provided. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK. Clay, any idea where the city of DeLand gets their water, where the wells are? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
They've got quite a few different locations, I don't know exactly which ones would be providing specifically for this area. Is there a specific area of concern in regards to drawdown or impacts? 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Yes, I don't know where they get the water but there is a specific area of concern on drawdown. I know that Silver Glen... 
 
 
 
**audio back** 
 
It's dispersal directly adjacent to the site, there is going to be a real yard. Do you know what the railyard... 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
The site has been approved for a variety of more intense commercial uses immediately to the west. So again, it is located right here, that is the Martin Marietta site. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
I don't see it. 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
It is west of the property to the line there. The parcel next...

 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
As of right now we don't know what will be there? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
They had approval and they have not operated on it. There was an initial plan for a mixed use industrial office, commercial area in that area. It was a proofread before I would say the economic downturn nearly 2000 it has been sitting there and it is festive for but it has not had any activity on it recently. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK. Page 9 also, there is a discussion about the DeLand 2050 plan. Does this project comply with the DeLand? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
We have been working with the DeLand staff to make sure we have a clear understanding where they are at with that. What it is is identifying within the water and sewer service areas, Area C feel are appropriate for more intensive development and those that should remain more rural or less development and this is consistent with the DeLand 2050. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
On page 12, it says the development consistent with the future land use map shall not occur until concurrency services and facilities have been determined and are available. 
 
Have these improvements being made or do we know when they will be made? Or what is required? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
Concurrency is evaluated at the time of subdivision or final site plan in which case, we analyze impacts on water, sewer, storm water, roads, recreation for residential and at that point, if there is any deficits, they cannot proceed until they have identified what negation will be required. Hence that's why you see a lot of the prop fair share agreements we have for the transportation improvements or where they would have to do specific roadway improvements. If there is a situation in regards to recreation they would have to provide for that as well.  
 
And so, right now, we do not see necessarily a significant issue with this other than cutting into the details of what the transportation study would show based on the information provided by the city they have sufficient capacity at their plants to provide both sanitary sewer and centralize water. Other than that, right now, at this level of development, they are consistent with our concurrency requirements but there will have to be additional review in details identified as what is necessary to ensure concurrency. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK. So, there is an additional review required. Is that the same for page 13? Volusia County shall require that all new development located within an area encompassed by an adopted municipal water service area agreement shall comply with the potable water sub element and level of service standards adopted by that municipality. 
 
Has that been done? Or will we do it at another point? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
As part of the process we can or two coordinate with the city of DeLand. Because it is tied to a planned unit development we have a clear picture of what the impact will be. 121 single-family homes and upwards of 36,000 ft.² of commercial. Only send it over to their staff they are able to identify what the generalized water demand would be based on standard coefficients and come up with the total demand. At that point, if there are issues that is when the cities or whoever may be the water and sewer provider would let us know whether or not they had adequate plant capacity or whether or not there was adequate distribution systems. At this point city of Deland has not identified a difficulty with either one but it will be incumbent on the developer to have to go through get the approvals to ensure they have adequate capacity. If they don't, it will be there is possibility to address the deficit. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Is at the same for the couple paragraphs down and the discussion about urban sprawl? There is requirements, let me find it here... Urban sprawl is the following, pursuant to section 163.164 a development pattern and characterized by low density automobile to pending development with either a single user multiple uses that are not functionally related requiring the extension of public facilities and services in an efficient manner and feeling provide a clear separation. Do we know yet if there will be an extension of services, roads or anything to the area in order to make it, and will it be efficient? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
Yes right now there is existing utilities in the area. There is adequate capacity for water and sewer and existing roads there. They may have to do certain improvements from an operational improvement or pay into a proper share to address capacity issues. It's identified as a transit oriented area and it will incorporate a trails area. From the staff analysis it does not constitute urban sprawl. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK. I think with all the questions what I'm getting at is when, we are being asked to vote on it today. Without a lot of this information but the information will come sometime in the future which makes it for me, difficult to vote on it today. 
 
Just a couple more questions for you, according to the applicant's trip generation and analysis their proposed 121 dwelling units and 36,000 where feet of commercial development would generate approximately 3162 daily trips and 356 peak hour trips. Therefore the proposed amendment would result in a maximum net increase of 2698 daily trips. Are the roads there, is that area able to handle that kind of increase? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
There will have to be obviously operational improvements such as access so you will see turn lanes and those types of things. There are intersection issues over at 44 and the truck route which has also been identified from DOT. What will happen is, if there are any deficiencies in the road segments or at any intersections, their proportionate fair share of what would be required to repair that is what we would charge them as part of the agreement. That is how concurrency for transportation specifically roadways are addressed here in the state of Florida. We have to have the pay and go pursuant to Florida statute 163.  
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
It has been reviewed by Florida County, but it doesn't say if it has been approved or not. 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
again... 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
What is essay has not yet been approved? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
At this point in time, we use a conceptual of the 121 identify those issues. When they come in for the subdivision, we have to look at that point in time. If they come back here two years later with their subdivision, there could be worse traffic conditions and there is at this early stage. We want to make sure concurrency is done right before they do development so that way we can get the best existing snapshot of the condition of the roads so that way their impacts are best assessed that way. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Ok. Looking at page 48. Single-family residential... Again, this is trip generation. 464, total 3162. 
 
And then, in conclusions, it says the proposed amendment would result in a net amendment of 2698 daily trips, 311 peak hour trips. Studied roadway segments, expected to operate below adopted capacities. 
 
Again, I guess what I'm asking, we are going to have to vote on this right now. When will we have this information? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
Again, right now you don't do a full concurrency analysis with the comprehensive plan in rezoning. At this point, we are identifying the critical issue so that you as an elected body understand what staff are going to be looking at what we do, and for the final subdivision. 
 
This is going to be a residential and a commercial development. You've got two situations. When they come for the subdivision, which is phase 1, the 121 homes, that is when we will require full on concurrent the analysis including roads, schools, water, sewer, Parks and Recreation because it is a residential component. And if there is any deficits, that is where they have to be identified. 
 
With regards to, specifically, transportation concurrency, the state of Florida has stated that if a local government chooses to do transportation concurrency, they must include an option for a proportionate fair share, where a developer can pay for it. 
 
That's why I was saying, if they get the approval for this PUD at this point property of the development for 1.5 years and come in for the subdivision of that time, we will have a better assessment of the traffic impacts at that point in time then trying to take a picture of it at this point in time and assessing what the impact would be. 
 
So that would account for growth that may occur over the next 1.5 years, so that way, if we have additional road segments going down from we can make sure we can capture that. We cannot charge for anything above and beyond what the fair share is, and, we cannot withhold development approval for transportation concurrency. 
 
As I said, the state mandates that if you do transportation concurrency, you have to offer pay and go as a remedy to any kind of deficits. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
So we will get all of that in another hearing when we see the final site plan? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
No, sir. The subdivision plat goes through the staff. It includes the development plan, preliminary splat, they cannot do anything with the properties per se, yet, and the final plat comes back to you. The preliminary plat and final plat are part of the consent item to the Council. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Ok. Don't go away. We are still in questions. Councilman Robbins. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Thank you. Just to recap your presentation, thank you. Is this consistent with Deland (indiscernible)? In plain terms, do they want this? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
Yes sir. It is consistent with what they are saying. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
This is not urgent growth, correct? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
No, sir, it is planted pines. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Planted pines like this thrive in wetlands, environmental sensitive areas or recharge areas. Yes or no? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
Those would be considered recharge areas because of sandy soil. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
That's all I have for now. Great job. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Councilman Dempsey. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
Clay, if you remember meeting on this project, I expressed concern about the driveway location on the 44. Just to refresh your memory, the reason that roundabout is there is because that grandmother and three children were in an accident where the gentleman was going south of grand Avenue and hit them. They burned in their Jeep. And I believe that was identified, I was involved as an attorney in this case, very deeply. So I am very very familiar with this location and the hazards of it. I believe Sheriff Johnson at the time, he identified or mentioned this was one of the most dangerous intersections in the county. And that's what preceded that accident. That caused that roundabout to come into existence. The danger of this is traffic coming from the west, going eastbound. The bridge goes over the railroad tracks, and as you are going down, you get to grand Avenue, which was a blind... I have almost been hit their coming south out of grand Avenue onto eastbound New York. You cannot see the traffic coming over the bridge and you have got to be moving on at a good clip. 
 
... Ok, so this is where the incident happened. The elderly gentleman was pulling out here and going eastbound, and the grandmother and grandkids were going this way off the bridge. This is where the accident happened. They burned alive. That is what caused the roundabout. So my concern now, I think what they are proposing is a driveway here and here. What I have said to Clay is my concern is when people were coming from the west, crossing the bridge and coming this way, there may be stacking here of people trying to go left into the subdivision. 
 
Two parts. I am in favor of this project with the caveat that we can be assured that the ingress and egress from these intersections or entrances can only be right in, right out. I am afraid of people coming east bound, crossing the bridge, a car will be stopped here waiting to turn left and then we will have stacking issues. 55, 65 mile an hour area. 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
It drops to 16 through the roundabout. We do not have any permitting restrictions over it, so we cannot guarantee from a county staff perspective. The applicant will be addressing it because their engineers looked at it and I have ideas for what they want to do with regards to restrictions. 
 
Also, I believe they have an exhibit that compiles what is being developed on the south and round in that area to give the Council their understanding of what the roadway conditions may look like in the future. At that point, they can make a determination. It is up to them. They are going to have to go through the driveway permitting or access permitting through the DOT on that. 
 
SPEAKER: 
The properties of soft don't concern me because it will be right in, right out. If they are pulling onto West Point, they are not waiting to pull out, they are sitting in the driveway. My concern is I'm stopping to pull into this neighborhood I'm waiting for other traffic coming from the east, going westbound. And when they are waiting for their lane to clean up so they can make a left turn, a car across the bridge and does not have time to stop. And then we have another repeat of that. I am wondering what assurances we can get that people could make a left turn into the subdivision from the eastbound lane. If we could limit that to just write in, right out and not allow people to make left turns in and they have to turn in from grand Avenue, wonderful. I am scared of stacking on eastbound 44. 
 
Can that be done? Can we get that assurance? Ok. I will be quite. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Councilman Johansson. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Moved to approve item 8. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Jake Johansson makes a motion to approve. And David Santiago made to the second to approve the small-scale comprehensive plan amendment. And for comments and debate, David Santiago. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Thank you. I believe this is near the future station that we will be having in the land over there too. So I think we have talked about how we need to support putting rooftops in that area so that it supports the economics of the train station that we are investing a lot of money in. So that is another part of my decision to support. Thank you, Mr Chair. 
 
JEFFREY BROWER: 
Ok. Yes? This is the applicant's attorney, Michael Woods. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Could you put up the PowerPoint presentation or the PDF? I will be brief for me. Michael Woods, 231 N. Woodland Boulevard. Happy to be here with you today for this project. We have been working on this for sometime and we are proud of it with respect to how we approached it and trying to take in all considerations. Councilmember Dempsey, I will follow up at the end. I have a presentation for you that we can discuss through that. We have a couple of suggestions for you. 
 
What's that? You don't have my PowerPoint. I caught a flash drive. We emailed that in. Do you have a PDF? Thank you. No problem. I apologize for my lack of time today. Either all my shirts shrunk over the last two weeks or I haven't been paying attention while growing this beast of a beard. I was going to have it gone before today but I did a bike ride this weekend and I have a sunburn pattern underneath. Ok, wonderful. What do I point to? Thank you, I can deal with that. Overview for land use and rezoning. Clay gave us a good presentation here. Though the land-use provides for more than 121 lots, that is what we are proposing. They are 50 foot and 60 foot lots. We did carve out a commercial parcel. I want to talk about the thought process for that. It goes to our overall thinking for the area. 
 
The tree presentation on the open space, you can see there. I will put a bookmark here because we meet all the requirements as described for your code. I want to get back into LID standards, open tree standards, tree preservation area. They are siloed right now with the code, that causes limitations to the overall design. I think you will see that problem, more more as you push for LID standards. I think there are things that work on the staff level, but I think we need to look into that, because it could lead to a better program if you are able to allow for an area with the trail and have that open space. I think a lot of people would like that but you cannot get to that point with your current standards.  
 
in the following one. You can see the Western portion of the property is the old growth pine for harvesting for timberlands, Volusia timber was the previous owner. On the northeast corner you see what the next slide, the concept plan, our approach has been to put the development onto the west side where the planted pines have been and really retain the natural condition and topography in the northeast quadrant. (Unknown name) is here with KCG who has been working extensively on the other portion of DeLand and is a mother with the challenges there so has paid close attention and I don't know anyone who is as up-to-date as Sean.  
 
This was updated as of 20 22 and the process has been to keep that as natural as possible. The dark ground is the tree preservation the likeliness open space. Ideally we'd like to keep all the open space and in the tree covered area but we have to go through steps to check the boxes and get the percentages correct. As you can see you have access on Grand Avenue is a primary access point. We also have access on New York servicing the residential project. I will talk to the concerns regarding 44. We've got this as a placeholder, this was an earlier concept. The thought process here is you have access for the Circle K and that is not part of the project whatsoever it is an existing project. They have the drive aisle on the corner. What we contemplated is that when FDOT comes in for the permitting for the commercial, they probably won't allow for an additional driveway and certainly not access so we have on the residential access coming in off of 44 you can see the Graybar cut into the ESA given access point to her rear loading for commercial. And talking about keeping the commercial there, and it is two fold and one is internal capture. I will scroll through in a number -- another couple of side to go down to the... Keep going those of the black-and-white. A little more. 
 
So, as you can see there, the commercial there is two full. Got a gas station on the southeast corner. We want to him them in because gas stations when they want to redevelop need a larger footprint to be more modern. When you don't give them the space and ability, they will typically have the national companies sell off to local and you don't get this corporate standards to apply. If they come in, they have an approach us on any redevelopment that it is there for them if they want to. If it doesn't come to fruition there is enough square footage to allow for local commercial activity to capture our population.  
 
A lot of that show it in the later slide, lines of what the commercial element for the project that Rick got approved on the south side of four automatic that straddles both sides of Grand Avenue. One of the concepts here, we are certainly a smaller part and definitely smaller footprint than that or the other to the cells west. You are seeing a commercial node pulling some of the traffic away from the East into the area to better handle it. A better long-term plan. Next slide. 
 
Again there is the land-use conditions, next slide. That is a lot of text but talking about the urban sprawl within your development agreement, the self-report but I'm happy to talk through it but effectively, we tried to do as much internal capture get into the bike lanes. 
 
On the next two slides, unto rezoning we have the standard amenities and a lot of open space entry reservation. We have a few pocket parks in their and buffering surrounding the property. Our big amenity we are really excited for, if you can scroll back down, to the walk ability, it is about three or four slides. I think you're going the other direction, sorry. 
 
OK, we like to give this slide in most of the presentations, the developers did the Trinity Gardens product that you approved in a road cost share agreement in the consent agenda today. Like to show walk ability and the distance traveled. On the next slide, this is showing our interaction with the fourth project to the south. If you can recall the whitespace in the top right corner of the project, those are 40 foot single-family homes and down the centerline those are townhomes and in the southwest corner you get to apartments. All building to the SunRail station coming down the road. You can see it in the red at the bottom. If you scroll to the next slide please, this is slightly less polished. This is my efforts on the iPad but want to give you a sense of the scale we are dealing with. All lines are tracing from the existing roadway or the platted roadway going through the Pelham Square in yellow. From SunRail to points of interest out there. 1 mile by following the road it's a little closer as the crow flies, on grand Avenue to get to the roundabout. The orange line brings you to the timeout tavern if you've been there. And then the purple line is also under a mile, that is the stockyard. As we have people coming to visit our SunRail station, the ideas that this is an opportunity for something special to be developed out here is something, soapbox trying to beat the drum to get people engaged. 
 
So, this is your conductivity, the trail map, you can pull it off on the County. I want to focus on the light purple that is running between Lake Beresford and grand Avenue, the missing gap. I'll tell you why were proud of the project. Now you have the multiuse trail, all the way north to Dalian Springs which picks up into the state road F DOT project to go to State Road 40. Running south goes to Deberry and connects to hosting and it shoots across, it's a fantastic and with a couple of gaps. One gap arrived in this area. If you scroll to the next slide. 
 
So, the concept is to run the trail somewhere along grand Avenue. It's provided for on the south side of 44. The challenge here is you've got about 19 individual parcels on the side of grand Avenue. They didn't want to have any crossing of the roadway and you don't want to have a whole lot of driveways cutting through the trail system so the Westside makes sense. The bigger problem in my opinion when he got to Minnesota Avenue, those are about the 20 to 26 there, that portion of Minnesota Avenue is all prescriptive. So you have no right of way to work with anything there. A big chunk of property in the southwest corner of the intersection, that is the CMD recycling site. That is edge of asphalt a little tree buffer and then a great change down. No room there whatsoever. 
 
And that shows you the challenge you are dealing with with that site. So what we are proposing with the project, and the county we been working with them for about two years. With our green portion of the trail, it is along grand Avenue and cutting the northern boundary you get 4/10 of a mile of the trail. The .12 miles going to the north there is a little challenge there was a Conservation easement that is being worked on. The .19 miles is property owned by (Unknown name) materials. And you go farther to the north is a vested subdivision which one of Butch Paul's entities as permitted. With that 1 mile and gap and working towards connecting for that, you effectively are able to come into SunRail or be a resident and ride from the SunRail station north unencumbered on a safe trail to Lake Woodruff reserve to get pancakes and go to other points north. An amenity for the community and for our residents certainly and and amenity and business attraction for getting folks into the area on SunRail. 
 
This is explaining the thought process, and we will work with staff, this is where our concept is. I understand you have a grade change where it dead ends on grand to make sure the curves can round out properly and will work with them on that. I believe there is a requirement for some fencing along the backs of our units or privacy. But we are really proud about the trip. 
 
So this gets to your concerns councilmember Dempsey because you brought it up and we did a good bit of digging into the nature of conditions back when the accident occurred on Grand Avenue on what the current conditions are now. 
 
We are open to working with whatever FDO T requires for us. In our worst case scenario, isn't really a worst-case scenario, if we are limited to (Indiscernible) on state road 44 the saving graces you have the roundabout. So if you wanted to turn into you can travel to the roundabout loop around and come in. It is not a U-turn, and I your face. Are you following me with what I am saying? 
 
SPEAKER: 
(Indiscernible) 
 
SPEAKER: 
I'll show you that as well. So next slide. These are the current conditions as you are traveling on the roadway. Hopefully the color comes through on your screen. Blue is 40 miles an hour and that is as you are traveling north and south approaching the roundabout. 15 is the speed to the roundabout and starts a little sooner as you are traveling from the west to east. At the top of the page there and then there is a 50 mile-per-hour speed up once you go past the recycling facility to the north. Those are existing conditions as they are today. 
 
At the time of the accident when there was no control at Grand and state road 44 the speed limit was 50 mph. What we have shown for here on our driveway, is contemplating what we think of DOT would require of us because in our conversations thus far they assess sewer line ourselves with the driveways as proposed to the south side on the rec wolf heart project. There is a driveway connection on the Western edge there and that's on the concept plan so that's why we lined up driveway the way we did. 
 
Here are some closer detail. The concept provides and the traffic engineers here to answer specific questions. If they allow us (the only way they would allow this by providing this type of stacking onto the property there. You have a 50 foot taper and 185 feet of D cell lane and then you've got I believe reads 25 feet stop the grand total of deceleration lane of 185 feet in total left turn lane and a taper of 210 feet and that is assuming in operational design speed of 45 mph when you are starting to slow down on is down to 40. If we scroll to the next page, I just wanted to get in from a line of sight because I do remember the conversation we had of looking from grand Avenue East and trying to judge the distance. Again, they were trying to judge the distance of a 50 mile an hour car coming down here. What you have here is my best effort, you can look on Google images, I drove out there and remembered Google existed so I took the pictures from there. Have an unfettered view or Clearview both looking from the west to the east, and you're slowing down to 40 miles an hour. So you see the image on the right-hand side is looking back towards the west from where the driveway would be deposed. And I think and uninterrupted view so you would be able to see that from a visibility standpoint. The main reason was your concern about having a blind turn or something like that. Even though we are shifting farther to the west then where the intersection was where the accident was, it had some interesting topography at the time as well. Basically what you get west of where we are, there is a little bit of a debit going towards the Grand intersection which may have been a factor and I don't think I included a photo of looking up that, like historic photos but I think if you see here, nothing is going to come out and surprised anybody. 
 
What we don't want to do, we will do whatever FDO T requires us to do, we'd like to keep the option open to see if they will allow for the left turn in for full access mainly because we don't want to create a problem with FDO T down the road if we agree here where will only be right in and write out. And it mixes something else up for them. If you feel strongly about that even with the information we provide we can accommodate the right in, right out. All in all it's a project we put a great deal of thought into and trying to incorporate the surrounding area and prepare for the SunRail as it comes in and accommodate the concerns that have been raised. Hopefully we see you on your bicycles because again, that is my pet project on this one and I am happy for it. Happy to answer any questions or have further discussion with councilmember Dempsey and our engineer for traffic and engineering is here today.  
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Any questions for Mr Woods? 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
Would you guys be willing to limit it? And make it other ways if DOT approves it? If the deceleration lane, there's already one to the east for the commercial side, which is great. If there's no deceleration lane to the west, which is closest to the bridge, and that's what is concerning to me. 
 
MICHAEL WOODS: 
For westbound traffic? 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
For traffic from the West, going east, coming over the bridge, there's a car sitting there to make a left turn. 
 
MICHAEL WOODS: 
What we anticipated if we ask for full access, FDOT would request that full deceleration. You can see there that that is where the deceleration would go, based upon the standards, FDOT would require that. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
God forbid they do not allow the deceleration line? 
 
MICHAEL WOODS: 
Yes, absolutely. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
Are you willing to limit yourself? If DOT gives you the left in, I'm all about it. Can I just say something so you guys don't think about it? There is a news Journal article and it stated right after the accident on April 8, 2016, the state adds immediate safety measures. This is the intersection that caused the roundabout. 
 
The state pledge Thursday to expedite the safety improvements where DeLeon Springs woman and her three grandchildren died in a fiery crash earlier this week (Reads). Asking for safety measures at State Road 44 and Grand Avenue, the site of fortitude crashes in the last four years. 
 
I'm not just talking but one incident, and talking bout 42 crashes and in a dangerous area. God bless you guys for doing it but I'm just concerned about a 43rd or 44th and subsequent crash. 
 
MICHAEL WOODS: 
I think we were aware of that as well. I was around for that as well. State Road 44 going out to New Smyrna was the kill zone and I know people that we lost out there. We have taken that seriously. 
 
I think that there's a distinction, as it is structured right now, there is speed control because at 50 miles an hour back then, what were people doing? There was nothing to stop you and that Grand was a blimp on the way into town. We take your concerns very seriously and so as you stated, we are happy to make those references if you need us to. We thank you for bringing that to our attention. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you. Jake, did you have, you didn't have a question? 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
I'm ready for comments. If Troy has a question, go ahead. 
 
TROY KENT: 
Mr Woods, just a couple of things: your stormwater ponds, are they going to have fountains in them? 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
They have to have a light as well. 
 
MICHAEL WOODS: 
I think our goal in the northeast quadrant is to go with the LAD standards and keep as natural and functional as possible. 
 
TROY KENT: 
I wanted to be lit up as well, I'm not joking by the way, I'm wondering if that's something your client would consider? Yes? 
 
MICHAEL WOODS: 
There you go. If it's a wet pond, then you will have a light there. 
 
TROY KENT: 
I want to make sure we include that in a motion. I really like the commercial aspect of this and I'm pleased with that. I've got to tell you that I wish they were not 50 foot lots. You know, this is a bigger ask, but can we go back a couple more slides of the aerial of over the lots? 
 
I just looked through this and it was like paint by numbers. You're proud of this and I'm sure they are as well. Is there any wiggle room to remove some of these, some of the sheer number of homes going into here? 
 
MICHAEL WOODS: 
I think the yield is pretty acceptable. 
 
TROY KENT: 
You didn't even ask him! 
 
MICHAEL WOODS: 
I've done work with him. This goes back to my point about breaking things up. In our earlier phase in design, particularly if you go to the super blocks on the west side, we had a meandering swale running through their to do standards but it could not count as open space because it was technically stormwater. Instead of having not to break things up and it was going to meander through, we compress those together to make sure we had the open space and the tree preservation on the other side. 
 
It's aesthetically pleasing and it was good. It was a kick in the play to keep us from breaking stuff up a little bit. 
 
TROY KENT: 
I get it but I also get that if we don't talk about negotiations right here at this level, then there's no negotiations. I'm appreciative for the fountain and for it being lit up, and there are sometimes when I think 50 foot lots – not everybody wants a big yard. You get to a certain age where you want different things. You know, at some point before we vote, I would be interested if your clients would be willing to cut down a little bit on the sheer number just because it's house on top a house, on top of house on top of house. 
 
MICHAEL WOODS: 
We got to that number because I know the councilman, to bring this before me, we looked at the development pattern across the way, and I don't know if you can see it through here but those were developed through unrecorded subdivisions over time and they are all flag lots. They look like they have a larger frontage and they are more shallow, but if you overlay their density, you've heard me beat the drum that they have no sidewalk or stormwater, landscape buffering – that gets developed at higher density than what we have here. 
 
While you have the 50s and 60s is that we have the stormwater and side bots at both sides of the street, but I appreciate the conversation on that. 
 
TROY KENT: 
Thank you. 50 foot is just small. I'm the guy that, in the land I have a tiny sliver in my district but I'm the guy who voted no on two or three new developments in DeLand because of the unchecked growth and no fountain. I don't know, Council members, I don't know if anyone else feels like this is house on top of this? That's where I am. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Johansson? 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
...Components in this, as far as changing my motion, I'm not gonna tell people how to live. You make it multicolored or you don't make it multicolored. I pay an HOA fee and has a lot of hands and it, and so it pisses me off. I meant LID, no fountain kind of guy. I've been fortunate enough to work with some of the professionals here in the County staff and some of our traffic consultants and many people at FDOT, and I'm pretty convinced that 99% of the time they know what the hell they are doing. If we need a turning lane, we will get it. If we cannot make a turning lane, they will not let us sit in traffic coming off of the hill to turn left and back the traffic up. And it will be right turn only. 
 
I don't want to mandate anything on the developer before FDOT weighs in and I'm thoroughly convinced that if they can figure this out, and the reason I say that is because and a lot of times you have people that come up in these meetings that say they lived there and they know how traffic works, but nobody comes back two years later and says it's not working like we said it would. I'm pretty impressed of what FDOT does and I'm hoping they can make the right decision on State Road 44 and give us a left turn deceleration lane, or not do it at all. 
 
I'm not going to change my motion because I trust the folks that are professionals and that's all I have, thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Just two quick questions. One of them might be for Sean. In fact, it will be for Sean. When you get done this, you build these roads, will you dedicate the roads to the County to maintain? 
 
MICHAEL WOODS: 
If they are residential roads, they go to the county, yes. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Sean, you are an excellent engineer and so I feel confident in asking you this: LID was just brought up. What makes this a LID development? 
 
SPEAKER: 
We want to implement as much as we can, so in general most of the projects have been trying to implement them because to me is a factor of safety. I can run as much water as I can through a dry swell, which is one of the better systems in my opinion and it can be vegetated with plants that are low requirements - we work very closely with the landscape architect on these. 
 
If we can do as much of these as possible before the traditional pond, it's just implemented a lot of water. We've done studies where we've actually built these things across hundreds of acres and pumped water just to see how well they perform. And then we ended up implementing it on a few commercial projects. We put them all over so most water went through the system, and the pond that we had built, the traditional pond that met district requirements, went out there during a major storm and there was hardly any water going to it. 
 
We saw firsthand how you can implement these little swails and different infiltration systems and have a huge impact on violent water. There's the additional benefits of nutrient booms, and those are things, but in this project I have to be careful because you guys do have requirements that the open-space cannot be stormwater. 
 
The requirement states that retention or detention, I still want to run it through these systems but I just can't use it my traditional stormwater counts. We will try to put them, I try to put them wherever we have a good spot for them and the backs of those lots that backup to the wetland, by letting them be in a pattern that goes to the back of the lot, instead of the front, I want to let that run off to the back. Store the water up before it overflows into the traditional bonds. That's what you are saying on the back of the lots that back up into the well. 
 
The other blue area to the left of that, west of that, is a natural depression that was there. If I cannot fill in existing holes, because those get existing water there, I would like to keep some of that water. On the far side of that, I would let that water store up to a certain capacity, and even some of the road water go there to a certain capacity, let it go there first before one of the other ponds. 
 
Put the fountain there if it is wet. I want to build layers into this project and the last thing would be the wetland itself. A lot of cheers do not touch the wetlands because you don't want to over hydrate or dry it out, you can actually impact by stating the water to hide but we don't quite a few of these, where we work with a biologist and environmental consultant, he states the Hydro periods, which shows how the water fluctuates throughout the wetland. We study the vegetation around it and we model that predevelopment elevation and then we utilize that wetland, where we try to match that hydro-period going through that wetland. So we don't try it out were over hydrate. 
 
We will utilize that and to me, that's just another feature - we can make that wetland better than it is today, by having more continuous flow going through it. Work in a more consistent flow, I should say, where we don't dry it out or over hydrate it. Control it, per se. There's also talk about putting some additional natural trees and foliage in the wetland because we can make it better. That's one thing I want to work on.  
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
What did the drilling tell you? Where is the hard panel? 
 
MICHAEL WOODS: 
It is a lot of sand and I can show you that later. We had a slightly different layout. We sent out for more boring and I want to get some more information. I'm assuming this gets approved right for all the ponds and LID's. 
 
I want to get those studies from Mr Bart Lowe. The ridge on the site runs right in the middle and that main road coming off a 44. Everything to the west of that flows through the St. John's River, everything to the east flows towards the depression on site. We do have part of our site as positive drainage, which is good. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Maybe you don't because this wasn't something you had to deal with, perhaps. Do you have any idea what percentage of the property was clear-cut or would be clear-cut for this? 
 
SPEAKER: 
I don't know. As it is proposed right now, how much would it have to be clear-cut? I mean, right now, I can tell you the 15% tree reservation we can clear and we have 20% open space and a lot of that we will keep. 
 
For instance, a lot of the green around the wetland is trees we want to keep. From an accounting perspective, with tree preservation... 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
We are talking about LID and Troy said what he said about paint by numbers. Apparently, we had similar – we don't get to talk about this before we did up here. Just to be honest, when I looked at this conceptual, I thought, "This is not anything special." It looks like what we continue to see, clear-cut, but houses, you say that area to the northeast. 
 
I would like to see last. But one of the things you both have said that really perplexed me, because I think you should have had the option is when you did design the retention ponds, I think you said kind of a meandering, but you are not allowed to use that in your calculation for open spaces. This is a negotiation. Did you negotiate with anybody in the county? Could we change that? 
 
MICHAEL WOODS: 
I will not speak for county staff and that was an iteration going back to December 2022. It has been evolving. It was physically hard "no" on making that open space. All of your regulations have good intentions – there is always a good reason for all of that. What you did not want to do is go back to the old school days of playing in the retention pond. That's where I played football as a kid and I was awful at it, it was the dry retention pond you played in. 
 
I wasn't here when those relations were adopted, but presumably to make it a functional open space. As it requires more surface area for those old standards worked really well and we had issues with them. This is a great example of a trail in Lake Woodruff, tens of thousands of acres of beautiful, natural area. According to the calculations of what is open space for the county, it is just a pathway. Just block every thing out – that's all you get is what is open space. 
 
I think that there is conversations to work through that, but we made adjustments and we are happy to try to be focused on where we had to for the storm water and drainage and I understand your concerns about if you could have broken it up a little bit more there. This far along now, that impacts how the roads align with the dry waste to the south. I just think... be aware of that as we move forward and how we start having those conversations because I think there's opportunity for more. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
I think Clay is going to answer that and I'm not asking you to redesign the whole thing, I think it's incumbent on the County, the Council, to work with staff to say – I really want LID. If I really want LID, I am willing to talk about changing that rule. Those could be considered open space. Otherwise, we will never have LID because it is only so much space. 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
Part of the tool is to use the audit tool to identify potential, you know, conflicts in our existing code. That was identified and as part of our changes we will be recommending to the Council coming back to you once we have completed all of that. 
 
The issue is that might hit it on the head – in the past, before we put the restriction that common open space and, open space accessible to the residents of that had to be something other than a big, dry ditch. 
 
In the past and people would try to basically get multiple uses of the same piece of property to double or triple count towards their minimum requirement. That was done to prevent that. Now we have an opportunity where we can sit here if you are utilizing LID and part of it and being integrated, you will be able to count towards open space. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK, thank you. Vice Chair Kent. 
 
TROY KENT: 
Thank you, chairman. A couple of things, Don, to your comment around the number of crashes over a five-year period. I'm not saying that if DOT gets it wrong, but maybe they got it wrong with five crashes in one area, 40 somewhat crashes over a five-year period. Sounds like somebody got it wrong, you know? 
 
In fact, they realized they got it wrong that so quickly they wanted to make an adjustment and make changes immediately. Sometimes, you do get it wrong. Council, I will never apologize for negotiating up here on the dais. It is part of my job to do that for our constituents. 
 
I have seen extremely positive benefits from that. It blows my mind a little bit that the applicant is willing to put a fountain income and light it up, but the maker of the motion is hard "no". OK, you do you, I will do me. 
 
I look at this and I said paint by numbers, because you look at this visual and to me, that's what it looks like – how many homes can we fit in this postage stamp? And I will vote no on this. And the reason is for the fountain. 
 
And if it votes no, I want you to hear from me. I will then make a motion to approve it with the fountain that you agreed to. Because I think you are OK with that. At least, you said you were OK with it. Are the owners of the property – are they from this area? 
 
MICHAEL WOODS: 
They have five or six projects through here. 
 
TROY KENT: 
Do they live here? 
 
MICHAEL WOODS: 
They are in the Orlando area. 
 
TROY KENT: 
Got you. Even though I'm not crazy about the 50 foot lots, I will stick by what I said and make this motion. If this gets voted down. If it doesn't, well, there you go, you don't have to do the fountain. 
 
MICHAEL WOODS: 
Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Dempsey. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
(Laughs) I've got to tell you guys, unless I get a firm commitment to right in, right out, I am no on this. Kind of like what Troy was saying without the fountain I want to write in, right out and talk about engineers and how smart we think government is, 42 crashes in a five-year window – this is the news Journal article from April 8, 2016. This state, I guess, DOT said April 8, after the eighth fatality, the state adds immediate safety measures. But let's look at the article. 
 
Neighbors complaint – neighbors all complained. No, they know the area better than anybody. Neighbors complain. 2007, 42 crashes. What do they do? They get the DOT out there in 2007. The experts we are all hanging our hats on, DOT says, "No problem!" A couple of years later, fatality. 2010, first fatality there. 
 
Neighbors complained some more. "Told you so! Told you it's dangerous." DOT comes out again in 2012. In all of their wisdom. No danger. No need for for traffic device and we don't need anything. 
 
2013, another fatality. Still nothing happens. Then 2016, three children are burned alive and their grandmother burned alive. Ben Johnson, the sheriff, and the County Council at that time gets involved and there is a danger! And they get immediate action and get this roundabout. 
 
So, if you will hang our hats on the accuracy on these experts, we need to look to the past to predict the future. Maybe we all had deck chairs on the Titanic, because those experts said it was unsinkable. 
 
As much as we say about this, I am really, truly concerned about the ninth fatality of somebody crossing that bridge going eastbound. Here we are again. So, unless we can get a confirmation that we will not have an Eastern – I'm sorry, right in, right out, if we can do it where the commercial office parcel is and have the access from there, because you already got a deceleration lane there, more power to you – I think it's great. 
 
If we can't get the deceleration lane to the residence from where you have the drawing here, it has to be a no, guys. I'm not trying to be ornery but I'm concerned about ninth fatality in that area. Thanks. Go ahead and answer if you want. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I'm going to say as an engineer, and we've talked about this before and it's come out. Even if it wasn't required by traffic counts, but we don't think that would be the case and we wouldn't do this entry without a left turn lane. Like a deceleration lane. Or have it be right in, right out. 
 
From an engineer perspective, we wouldn't want to see this as a car awaiting in the through to make a left turn either. 
 
TROY KENT: 
In the initial presentation you can have a deceleration lane. 
 
SPEAKER:

We don't show a lot of roadway improvements because it also goes through DOT and DOT will give a thorough review until we have the construction plan. 
 
... What we actually want and will bring to DOT. It will either be that or right in, right out. One or the two. 
 
TROY KENT: 
I guess, obviously you know my distrust of DOT because they have gotten it wrong twice already. At the cost of eight lives. I just want assurance that if DOT doesn't allow it, it says for the third time there is no need for it, what assurance do we have there will not be left lanes going in? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Good afternoon, traffic consultant. I would like to go to the next slide with the pictures on it. The one with the Google Street view. One more. Yeah. I want to add that there has been many studies done that determine that roundabouts are not only traffic control measures, there are also traffic calming devices. By default, they calm traffic down, which is a major safety feature in roadways. 
 
You see a lot of that in the subdivisions, mainly for calming traffic down. In this picture on the right, no, in the middle, the top picture, you see the sign and it's not very clear on the right of the bridge. That sign is a sign that there is a roundabout coming up. And it's like a warning to reduce. Like an advanced warning for people to start reducing their speed. 
 
They put these signs where they are required every time you have a roundabout, before you approach the roundabout, there has to be signs telling drivers the roundabouts are approaching which basically gets the driver in the mode of slowing down because they will approach a 15 mile-per-hour roundabout to manoeuvre around. 
 
They are designed – the roundabouts are designed to enter at 15 mph speed limit. When you are driving at 40, you will start to slow down before you get to the roundabout. By the time you get to the entrance, where there will be a turn lane, obviously as we said if DOT approved, we will have to put the left turn lane in. 
 
Even with that, by the time you get to the turn lane, you will be at a lower speed, even lower than 40 mph. Because by default you are slowing down. Just wanted to add that.  
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
The reason there is the roundabout? So using that logic, why did we even put a roundabout? Why didn't we put a slowdown sign up? 
 
SPEAKER: 
A slowdown sign, when there is no sign that says to slowdown– 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
A reduced speed limit. Why wasn't it necessary? 
 
SPEAKER: 
What I'm saying is the roundabout serves two purposes. It is a traffic control measure, meaning it could be a traffic signal, roundabout, which basically controls the movement of the traffic of two intersecting roads. 
 
The second purpose of a roundabout in my opinion, and actually the first purpose of a roundabout is coming traffic. Because by default again, you have to slow down to maneuver around but you cannot go through the roundabout, even if going straight, you cannot go it at 40 miles an hour, it has to be done to 15 or 20 max. So that's the reason again, why they put the roundabout. 
 
MICHAEL WOODS: 
Just some point to clarify, if you are looking at the left corner image, it doesn't show the roundabout in the distance because the issue with the original accident with a view ability, what you are looking at is eastbound and you will see where our driveway is – that visibility is there but it's not hard to say that back in 2016, there was more of a typography issue. 
 
You had brought that up initially and that typography is happening east of where our driveway is, so from the standpoint of if your concern is coming over the bridge and being surprised, you've got a clear view corridor to the point where you are at the left turn lane, and you are already starting to slow down because of the roundabout that's coming up. I wish I had the capacity to kinda play video as you kind of come through, but that skill eludes me entirely. 
 
SPEAKER: 
One more thing, we designed a turn lane length long enough to handle the maximum queue that could be there for the left turn so that they don't block the through traffic. If you are coming up and someone is in the left turn, it would never block the through traffic. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
Are you talking about the traffic going eastbound? 
 
SPEAKER: 
The left turn lane is going to be long enough to handle the maximum queuing, potentially there at the left turns, so you will never have cars that are stacked longer than the turn lane backed into the three lanes into the main road. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
They had no control over State Road 44. 
 
SPEAKER: 
We are creating a turn lane. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
For eastbound traffic going north? 
 
SPEAKER: 
That's what we are saying. We are adding a left turn lane. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
I thought you said DOT had to approve it? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Yes, DOT has to approve it. If they approve it, that's the plan. If they don't approve it, that's what we are going for. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Mr Chairman, point of order? I'm wondering what posture we are in because I think we are beating a dead horse here. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Where we are at is, this is a Quasi-Judicial Hearing and there's still a lot of questions from counsel. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I think we've already passed questions and are into the motions. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
If that's the case, as we get more information, it creates more questions. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I will just go a step further and call question. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
There's a motion on the floor to call question. I will have to call an immediate vote and that has to have 3/5 and it's not debatable. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
This is a motion to call the question or to vote on the actual issue cannot I want legal guidance. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
First we have to have about to call the question because you are shutting off seven people that want to speak. 
 
MICHAEL G DYER: 
It's a two thirds vote. To close debate and procedure directly to the vote. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
You made a motion to call the question. Was there a second to his motion? The second was by Danny Robins. Motion by David Santiago. To end debate, have an immediate vote, all in favor of ending debate and calling immediate votes, call the role please? 
 
KARISSA GREEN: 
Mr Kent? Mr Reinhart? Mr Robbins? Mr Santiago? Mr Dempsey? Mr Johansson? Mr Brower? 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
No. But the yesses have it to silence the debate, so now we will... Call the question. 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
Staff needs clarification if the vote will be on the underlying amendment to the future map, and that would be changing it from rural to commercial and Urban Low Intensity. If that is passed, then the second vote would be on the rezoning to PUD and that would allow for hundred and 21 single-family homes as shown in the conceptual plan. And we did hear that there was concerns in regards to the driveway access off of State Road 44, with the decel lane it would be restricted to her right in, right out only. 
 
MICHAEL G DYER: 
The discussion I heard about the turn lane and the fountain requirement, that would be appropriate discussion for item 9, the PUD requirement? 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
That's why my motion stands without that information. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Karissa, would you call the role in the development? 
 
TROY KENT: 
Chairman, Mr Dyer? I felt like those that had spoken had had their time that I don't like that Mr Dempsey voted No and I felt like he had more to say. I want to change my vote on call the question. 
 
MICHAEL G DYER: 
OK. 
 
TROY KENT: 
So now it is not two thirds, correct? I just want to make sure we do this correctly. I want to give Mr Dempsey and Mr Brower and anybody else that wants to finish this, I do not want to shut them off. I would not like that to happen to me. 
 
MICHAEL G DYER: 
I think that's the councils will. I think the discussion that you and Mr Dempsey had would be something, that if you wish to put in the PUD, not in the company is a plan amendment on item 8, just item 9. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
That is why my motion help and I have my question, I was going to bring that up, I can speak to that. 
 
MICHAEL G DYER: 
And maybe part of the confusion on it, because the presentation was dealing with both item 8 and item 9 together. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Where do we stand, Mr Chairman? 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Mr Kent had said he would change his vote. The vote was completed – is that doable? 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I question that as a parliamentary procedure, because it would be a motion to reconsider the vote that was already completed. 
 
TROY KENT: 
You're right. I want to change my vote to give Councilman Dempsey and the chairman to finish. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I think you would have to make the motion to reconsider and that would have to be considered. 
 
MICHAEL G DYER: 
It would be our motion to reconsider. Mr Trent can make the motion because he was on the prevailing side of that motion and it's a prevailing vote. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
He would have to make the motion to reconsider, correct? 
 
MICHAEL G DYER: 
The reason why I made the point, because the discussion is about the turn lane and the fountain, the councilman will have the opportunity for item 9. 
 
TROY KENT: 
Don, you will have an opportunity for item 9 to talk about that. I'm good. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK, so we are back to where we were and calling the question. Karissa, call the role please. 
 
KARISSA GREEN: 
Mr Kent? Mr Reinhart? Mr Santiago? Mr Dempsey 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
No. 
 
KARISSA GREEN: 
Mr Johansson? Mr Brower? 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
No. Motion carries. That takes us to the follow-up item, item 9 the rezoning of West New York Avenue from the rural agricultural zoning to a Planned Unit Development. Staff or attorneys or anybody from the applicant have anything to say before I open it up here? No? 
 
OK, is there a motion? 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Motion to approve. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Motion to approve by Councilman Robins. And the second was by Matt Reinhart. OK, is this for questions – everybody that is up here? Councilman Robins. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Thank you. Mr Ervin, please. 
 
As always, no one is discounting the need or the reason why there's a roundabout there. With this roundabout, did it alleviate or decrease the number of crashes or injuries or deaths at that intersection? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
I don't have that statistic available to me. I would have to go back and verify the reason why it wasn't put into place, it was to improve the overall efficiency and effectiveness of the intersection so that it can be traversed safely. Again, to address the concerns that were identified. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Moving on. Is there a turn lane in the plan moving forward to address what we have heard in the prior item? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
What we heard from the applicant and they have made a commitment to, they will work through with DOT, they are seeking a full access driveway or roadway at intersection on State Road 44, the only way they would do so if they were to put in a turn lane with adequate stacking and transition. If they are denied to the full access, then the turn lane would not be put in. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
So there is an additional layer of protection with the DOT and their experts. They've heard us loud and clear on what we are looking for and I don't want to beat this thing and turn everybody completely off here, so we have that covered. 
 
Is it a requirement? We've talked about getting it out of the public's way or the landowners way, is there a requirement for these losses in terms of fountains that we personally may like? Or are these required? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
They are not part of the requirements of the code. They are part of an availability that the Council has to negotiate in order to balance the reduction in development standards, to balance out for public benefit. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Alright, I think that covered the majority of everybody's concerns. Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK, I wanted to vote yes for this for this reason: we are building SunRail and it's going to cost somewhere between 6 million and $11 million a year. I actually want people to be on that train. Will this help it? I don't know. One of my fears is that now every development within three or 4 miles of SunRail will be qualified as a SunRail community. 
 
This one actually stands the possibility for that. The 50 foot lots doesn't bother me. Troy, and fact I think there is a good market for 50 foot lots. And I think it's one of the ways to get to a true LID development. We probably could have got to that. 
 
Here's the reason I'm not able to vote yes for today. I'm going to be a no because there's too many unknowns for me that I have to wait and see how it all works out, like the right turn, right only. Like can the engineering change the way it goes? Those things, I think we need to settle before we let people get this far.  
 
So, I will just stop there. Matt Reinhart. 
 
TROY KENT: 
What about me, Chairman? 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Troy Kent, would you like to speak? 
 
TROY KENT: 
Yes. Clay, one question for you. Is it appropriate to negotiate from the dais items like aerated fountains that can light up, on items like this? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
Staff will never tell the County Council what they can and cannot do. 
 
TROY KENT: 
Smart move by staff. It was referenced by a councilmen, that is with tchotchkes. I don't think an aerated fountain that helps with algae and is aesthetically pleasing to have it lit up at night is a tchotchkes, I would consider a keychain a tchotchkes, maracas, visiting to the south, tchotchkes. Not something like this. 
 
I am still for that and I hold true to what I said earlier – I will vote "no" and if it goes down because the maker of the motion knew I wanted this. I was going to purposely do this and jump out because I was going to see, and I saw. 
 
If it is voted down no, I will make a motion to include the fountain with the aeration and the like. Wish you the best. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Reinhart. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
Thank you. I have one question for you because I think I heard it right. The turn lane has been identified and if MDOT does, they will include... (audio issues) that's my concern. So, check, check. 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
Let me clarify and DOT will look at it in the terms of variety of different factors and how many cars are required to turn left into the site, etc, etc. That will dictate the length of all issues in regards to the lengths of the turn lane and the transition area. 
 
If it does not meet the requirements of DOT, they will not approve full access. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
Got it. My concern was if they don't do the turn lane, that you are willing to do, that you will accommodate the right turn in, right turn out only. One way or another, it is safer. Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Santiago. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Thank you, Mr Chair and thank you for asking that clarification, Matt, because that solves Don's concerns and with the safety perspective and one of those will show up. 
 
Want to say I don't have a problem with any councilmember, and me individually, we are doing a PUD to ask for something. If it is reasonable, and the applicant is willing to accept, they know the numbers and how much buffer they have to do certain things. 
 
If any of you at any time had something that is reasonable, I can see myself supporting it. I am OK with that. I know it's not in the motion, give my friend his fountain regardless of what happens, OK? 
 
Mr Chairman, I want to expand on your comments, not adversarial, just on the perspective of voting no because of the unknowns you said, right? That's the thing with a certain things in this that are well documented process to get things approved. Some of them are state requirements and some of them are requirements that we would probably not get to some of those answers at this state of the game. It's not something we can change alone. 
 
I respect your thoughts, but think it could be applied fairly to the applicants because it will never happen unless things happen in other areas that are beyond our control. I want to add that to my comments. Thank you.  
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Dempsey. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
So, Mike, I don't know this is a question for you or Clay, what guaranties can we have that it will be a DOT approved left in from the eastbound lane, or if that is denied, that it is only going to be right in, right out on 44? At that location? 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
There is two ways we can handle it. One, it can be added to the final development order for the PUD. That access off at 44 at the Western driveway should be right in, right out only unless DOT allows for full access, including a left turn lane at eastbound State Road 44 if you want to make that as part of a motion, that could be a condition. 
 
I believe what I'm hearing is the applicants have agreed to that. 
 
(Multiple speakers) 
 
MICHAEL G DYER: 
It would be a motion to amend. You can add that and anything else. It is a PUD. So... 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
OK. I don't know where we are in this process, but I am a "yes" if we can get that guarantee that this project will not happen unless there is a left and, left out approved by DOT for eastbound traffic looking to turn north into the subdivision, or right in, right out only. Because I don't want there to be a knife. 
 
Even on paper, Ben Johnson said I advised my family to go around the intersection step that is dangerous, guys. Not trying to check you around. It's dangerous and I'm concerned and that's the only reason I'm saying all that. 
 
MICHAEL G DYER: 
You can make that motion now. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
There is emotion on the floor to approve as is, but you can make an amendment, motion to make an amendment and we have to vote on it and if it passes, you get what you want and we have the vote on the main motion. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
I can make this a whole lot simple without going through all of this. I make a motion to amend my motion. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
We have to improve subject to the limitation that the southern entrance to the neighborhood is limited to either right in, right out, from the northbound lane of 44, or if DOT approves a left in from eastbound 44, turning left into the subdivision, to the north, then that be approved. Otherwise, it is right in, right out only. Right along 44. OK, thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
That is Mr Robins motion. Matt Reinhart second. Don gets a turn lane. I don't see anybody else. Does everybody understand the motion? 
 
Just one final thought since you directed your comments to me, Santiago and... I think an acceptable way. I look at a lot of what we do and I understand the process, and that we make of out, and then it's out of our hands and go somewhere down the line. 
 
We have projects that come back to us that are not beneficial to the public. That they suffer from. Either from traffic, from flooding. And in this case, the traffic passed. I question that. The school board said, "No problem." I don't know if the school board has ever denied saying something – they have? OK. 
 
So, I have to deal with what we can deal with here and not kick it down the road. The motion on the floor is to approve the rezoning, subject to the south entrance limitation and the right on, right out that Councilman Dempsey has brought up. 
 
If you want to call the roll? 
 
KARISSA GREEN: 
Mr Kent? 
 
TROY KENT: 
No. 
 
KARISSA GREEN: 
Mr Reinhart? Mr Robins? Mr Santiago? Mr Dempsey? Mr Johansson? Mr Brower? 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
No, and the motion carries 5-2. That was the main motion. Mr Santiago restated his motion. Mr Robins, I'm sorry. 
 
OK! Clay, item 10, ordinance 2023-45. 
 
CLAY ERVIN: 
This is county-owned property that would realize the Volusia Forever acquisition and changing the designation to be consistent with the purposes of conservation. You have already approved it for transmittal to the state, and they have come back with recommendation's of approval. With this, it is the adoption of the plan amendments to the future land use map. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you. We have motion by Danny Robins to approve. Second by David Santiago. Questions for staff? All in favor say 'aye'. Any opposed? John Nicholson, I see that I missed you with the last one and you can speak at the end. 
 
Motion carries, was everybody in the room? Was Troy in the room? Pardon me? Yeah, we will have to get his vote when he comes out. Unless you want – Don, you want to go in the bathroom and ask him? 
 
(Laughter) 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Not really? No, and I am kidding. Item 10 is 6-0 until we hear Troy Kent's vote. Tick, tick, tick. We get to item 11, it will be ordinance 2024-13, update to Volusia County ordinance chapter 14-45. OK. 
 
Item 10 was 7-0. Alright, Mark Swanson. 
 
MARK SWANSON: 
Good afternoon, County Council and staff, Mark Swanson, public protection officer and item number 11 is an ordinance for amending article 2 of chapter 14, repeal of section 1445 by deleting provisions relating to licensing of dogs, cats, and ferrets and amending provisions related to feeding a feral animal. 
 
The ordinance only applies to the unincorporated areas of the county and into of strict licensing requirements, they will be promoting micro-chipping as an alternative to increase pet retention and prevent lots of pets with these communities and these are presented to the animal control board on 3-20 2024 and with the recommendation of approval. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Questions? Danny Robins. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Motion of approval for the licensing of animals in unincorporated areas of Volusia County. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Robins makes the motion to approve and Matt Reinhart makes the second. Any questions for staff? Debate? Comments? All in favour say 'aye'. We have all seven of us here, so the update is passed 7-0.  
 
And here comes the Votran lady. Item 12. Votran fares discussion. 
 
BOBBIE KING: 
Bobbie King, Transit Services division Director. I'm here to talk about the process for the consideration of a fare increase. If there is ever going to be consideration for a fare increase, we must go through a Federal process. It's pretty detailed. 
 
I wanted to share that information with you. So, we are regulated by Federal Transit Administration and we have to follow a pretty strict guideline on the process for a fare increase. 
 
That includes – sorry, I guess I could start my slides. That would include quite a bit of public outreach and we would go countywide, multiple meetings, at least six in person meetings and possibly seven, and at least one virtual meeting. 
 
During those meetings, we will ask for comments, written, we will put requests on the buses for people to give us comments but we must have a 30 day window for comment period. We must also go to the TDLCB to ensure rates with them as well. 
 
Once we finish all the public meetings, we have to put together a full report. It's a Title VI fair equity analysis report and we will bring that back to you when we are done. We are looking at that possibly being in August. It could possibly take place on January 1, 2025. 
 
We would need to change our tickets, our marketing information, our farebox data and all of that stuff. So let's get into it. So the first like you are looking at is our current fairs. Single ride is a dollar 75 normal rate. We also have reduced fares for every single rate that we have, as you can see, and it's currently, we are seeing about 2 1/2 million dollars in revenue. Our paratransit Gold service is $3 million and we do roughly 900 trips a day. 
 
So, this is what we are proposing for an increase. Minimal increases – obviously, the single right is a $0.25 increase. What I have prepared is also what we expect for revenue from those increases. So, we are basing that on our current ridership numbers for each of those individual fare types. That can fluctuate from time to time and that's no guarantee what we will exactly bring in for next year, but based on what we currently have, this is a estimate on what we would have for revenue the following year. 
 
So, we are discontinuing the 10 day pass and we don't see a lot of interest in that, so there's no reason really for us to continue to have that pass produced. It costs money to produce it and we do believe people will migrate to a different pass. Right now the most popular is the full day pass, so you can get on and off all day long as long as you want, followed by the seven-day pass, and followed by the 30 day pass. 
 
We are suggesting a full dollar paratransit rate. We are allowed to bring you double of what we would charge for the fixed route cost. So single day fixed route cost would be two dollars. You can go up to double of that. 
 
When I say you can, I think I mentioned to all of you that we have to follow some rules about keeping it equitable, and it's really not, it's really frowned upon to increase dramatically and we certainly cannot go more than double what we choose for the fixed route fee. 
 
So, just to break down how it changes, of course. Looking at 14% change in single cash right. 17% of reduced, it's really minimal until you get to the paratransit Gold service charge – that's a 33.3% increase. You can go lower than that if you choose. A $3.50 rate would be a 16 1/2% increase, so it would be similar to what we are recommending for all of the other fare types. 
 
And that annual revenue would change for a couple hundred thousand dollars from what we proposed for the four dollars. So, there's some assumptions that we will have to take into account. Anytime we do a fare increase, the ridership drops a little bit at first, and then it will pick back up. We expect a 3% loss in ridership at first. We also expect those 10 day ride passholders to do the three day pass, or three three-day passes. 
 
Here's just a breakdown of what we expected revenue. We expect fixed route to come in at about hundred $30,000 more a year. Paratransit $267,000, and combined about $400,000. With a annual, overall revenue expected around $3 million. 
 
So I want to also bring up VoRide. We incorporated that into our service model back in December. We've now initiated the second zone and Deltona, Deberry, and Orange City area. It's already very popular. We charge two dollars for a one-way trip currently, but we wanted to make sure that we didn't get into a situation where we have very long trips. 
 
Now that we are into the second zone, we have a lot of areas to cover. So a two dollar ride really becomes very inefficient when you take a 20 mile trip. So we have asked other agencies what they are doing in a similar scenario, and there's a couple ways we could do this. 
 
We could do this by adding a dollar above what the average trip ride is, which is 1 to 8 miles right now. And another dollar for anything over 15 to 20. Most of our trips are 1 to 8 miles right now – that's about 70% of our riders. And then we would cap it at a 20 mile trip. Those are going to be very few and far between, but if they cannot find a way to transfer to a fixed route bus, it could be possible and we are not really wanting to eliminate somebody from getting a ride somehow. 
 
So, we eventually, if we incorporate the extra dollars, you can see a four dollar ride is still a reasonable fare. 
 
So where do we go from here? The reason we are bringing it to you at a time so we can go out into the public. We wanted to let you see what we are proposing. We will take this information out into the public and to meetings. We will also ask for comments. And then we will do that equity analysis and bring it back to you for approval. We are estimating in August, and again fare changes will begin January 1 if approved. And that's my presentation. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you, Bobbie. David Santiago? 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Move to approve for the staff to go to the next step. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Is there a second? The second is by Matt Reinhart. So, you will bring back Title VI analysis and recommendations – we are not voting on a fare increase today. Vice Chair Troy Kent? 
 
TROY KENT: 
And we are not voting on the fare increase but I will say publicly that Votran is one of the best bargains that I've ever seen in any city where I have ever been. You've heard me before talk about small incremental increases, and I think going from a dollar 75 to 2 dollars is exactly that. And even going from three dollars to four dollars, a 33% on that when you look at it presented wide, but when you look at how everything else has gone up, I absolutely support as presented. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Dempsey? 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
Did you have a chance to go out and look to VoRides comparison to private taxi fares or Uber? 
 
SPEAKER: 
I couldn't get anybody to talk to at Uber but I did talk to a local taxi company here in Deland and asked them what their per mile rate was. Within a 5 mile trip here in town, it's a $10 ride. Over that, is a $10 ride as long as they are in town. Anything over, I guess that, would be $2.40 a mile. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
That was from Primo? 
 
BOBBIE KING: 
That was from Primo. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
I was never for VoRide. I don't like when the Government starts competing with private industry because we are now competing with private companies like Primo and Uber or Lyft. The direction I am looking for is to make sure that VoRide does not snuff out these other private sector businesses, and at least make our ride fares equal to Primo, Lyft and Uber. So that we are not unfairly hurting them in their efforts to try and stay afloat because it's gotta be hard for them to compete with two dollar fares when they are charging $10. It doesn't take a genius to see that they will tank before long. 
 
I just ask if we can try to keep this at least aware we are not competing against them with price differences. Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you. Bobbie, I just wanted to say that Don makes a good point. I think we are looking at different writers with different reasons. I think there always be a need for the alternatives. What I wanted to say though is that you have presented, not this, the whole VoRide at the Central Florida Commuter Ride Commission. I want the Council to know that you have put Volusia County on the map in Florida and maybe outside of Florida for this whole concept. 
 
I think it's both Seminal and Osceola has asked you to come to their candidates to show them what you are doing. You are breaking the rules here and thinking out of the box, and making Volusia County look really good. I think we should all recognize you for that and be thankful for it. 
 
I don't see anybody else that wants to speak, so the motion on the table is to accept your report and ask you to bring back the Title VI analysis and recommendations. All in favor say aye? Any opposed? And the motion carries seven – zero. Thank you. 
 
Item 13. Award of contract with Bentley Group Inc. for the architectural engineering for the Mosquito Control Services facility. 
 
TADD KASBEER: 
This is an approval of the contract with the Bentley Group to perform the architectural and civil engineering services for the Mosquito Control office in New Smyrna Beach. The scope is included and the staff make recommendations for approval. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Motion to approve by Councilman Robins and a second by was Councilman Santiago. Questions, comments? All in favor say aye? Any opposed? Passes 7-0. 
 
Item 14. Annual Comprehensive Financial Report. Combined Countywide Annual Comprehensive Financial Report. 
 
RYAN OSSOWSKI: 
Chief financial officer. I'm joined by Lynn Uris. This is to present and the owner has a presentation they want to go over that's been included in the packet. It's kind of the standard slides that he always talks about. 
 
This book is over 600 pages. Your staff put together about 500 of those pages and the rest of them are either provided by the clerk of the court or the Sheriff's office, who prepares their own separate statements, or the auditors individual reports, which now with our combined amenity are over 60 pages of opinions, compliance, and presentations. 
 
This report is for the fiscal year that ended September 30, 2023. It's kind of the last chapter of 2023. The budget was approved almost 2 years ago and then we actually go through the year and come at the end and say, "where did our assets land? Where did our liabilities land? What were the real results of operations at the end of that year?" 
 
Inclusion of a section called analysis and you want to get a summary, it's especially in history, you can see the big financial transactions that occurred over the last four or five years. We've been doing a real thorough job of writing that discussion and analysis, which is a more of a English presentation as opposed to looking at hundreds of pages of just numbers and statements.  
 
I would say this report is as complicated as it's ever been and we had a new accounting standard we had implement this year which treats IT subscriptions, like software arrangements, as an asset and a liability because that is what the accounting standard is willing to do to us in government accounting world. 
 
Every year they implement something new and there are lots of complicated things in this book right now – not the least of which is that it's all amendment 10 based and I give tremendous credit to the accounting division who has kept the same FTE staffing number, even though this book is basically doubled in size and increased in complexity, and quintupled in the amount of units that are involved. All of the constitutional officers are separate audits, separate financial statements. With that introduction, I think Lynn wants to add a few words of recognition. 
 
LYNNE URICE: 
really quick, I would like to thank my accounting division and all of my staff have a part of this, whether it's the general vouchers that are key to the reporting of the payments of the vendors to make sure that gets the accruals done. 
 
Most notably, my professional accounting staff that is all here in the audience here and I would like to thank them. I want to thank the finance department accountants as well as the budget team and of course, just the finance department itself along with Mr Ryan Ossowski. I would like to introduce Zach (Unknown Name) from James Moore and Company. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Alright, good afternoon, Zach, partner at James Moore and Company and don't know if you have the PowerPoint in the packet here? I will be live on here. There we go. 
 
As Ryan said, and Lynne echoed, there is a lot of work that goes into this and I would like to take the opportunity to thank the Council as always for the opportunity to work with the County and big thanks to Ryan, Lynne, and the entire accounting and finance team within the county and the Constitutional officers as Ryan indicated. 
 
We effectively – this is year three of us issuing six separate audit reports and we have the countywide audit, and each constitutional officer as an entirely separate set of audit reports, specific to that office. Lots of work from all sorts of people that really goes into this report. 
 
And kind of watching things, to know when to come over, I know you had a pretty long day and I will try to keep it pretty brief. Of course, any questions as I am going or at the end, feel free to jump in. 
 
As Ryan noted, the county does prepare an annual comprehensive financial report. Last year's was awarded the certificate of achievement for Excellence in Financial Reporting and we expect to see that show up once again for the fiscal year 23 financial statements. 
 
There are five reports that we issue on the countywide financial statements. Four of these also show up for each of the constitutional's. Very similar process and no changes to the prior year, as Ryan talks about accounting changes, it's nice to have a year off where we didn't have to totally overhaul the actual audit report. 
 
The return on the financial statements, we have an unmodified opinion which says that the county financial statements are fairly presented in all material respects, and this is what you want to see here, effectively it is a clean audit report. 
 
Our second report was the first of many and the back of the document is on internal control and compliance and what we do not audit the county's internal control, there are separate engagements that focus on internal control. If we come across any major audit adjustments or in our testing, come across the deficiencies and failures that follow the process and controls in financial related areas. Accounts payable, payroll, and so forth, those could potentially rise to be reported. 
 
We had no material weaknesses or compliance matters identified in this report. The second report is that every year we perform a federal and state single audits  based off of the grant dollars floating through the county. This year we did on the grant side have one comment related to a Votran grant, which related to effectively we could not substantiate compliance in certain areas due to some IT issues with reproducing the documents. I am discussing with Ryan and team. I know some of those issues have already been addressed with the transition going on there and it is one where, that is to say that we couldn't see that it forces actually there were noncompliance things not being done right when we looked at it. 
 
We did have to report that. From what we have seen, everything has been addressed and going forward, we will be required to look at that grant programming next year. And hopefully, will be able to clear that up in the next year's audit. 
 
The last two reports are those required by the state of Florida and Canada catchall financial and any red flags the state wants us to report back and no such items identified in either of those and effectively two clean reports from the state requirement side there. 
 
Looking at your fund balance, every year we like to look at your general fund balance and where are your reserves at the end of the year? Of course, earlier, the number of sub-funds that roll into what we call the general fund for financial reporting purposes has grown. A show two numbers to say this is the role of totals versus what is in your 001 budgetary general fund and the way that you guys look at it to show those differences and amounts in terms of when you look at the role up, why is that number so much more different from what you see on the budget side? 
 
That note does identify all the different items and your constitutional officers, EMS fund, homeless, as well as the CARES act and ARPA money being part of those dollars. It is not exact because we are drilling into the 001 but looking at the assigned plus unassigned fund balance and looking at your unrestricted residual reserve, $108 million and most of that being assigned in next year's budget related to emergency and other reserves. 
 
Relative to what you spend, about 47% and five and half months there. I will note with this being 001, general fund, this is denominator and the expenditure side does include other operational items that don't have a lot of reserves and have a good chunk of expense when you look at it holistically. 
 
Bottom line is your over the minimum and looking at the minimum recommendations of two months and they do acknowledge that we factor in being coastal with susceptibility to hurricanes and other natural disasters, and reasons to be higher and there is many capital needs out there in terms of what is in those budget reserves for the future use of those monies. 
 
Bottom line is the county is in a strong financial position going forward, they can use some of those COVID ARPA monies as well as where you are at with everything in your operational funds. 
 
Looking at proprietary funds, enterprise funds, four-year trend here of your unrestricted bottom line number and some of the funds to have movement up and down. We look for any sustained movement to say, "Hey, are these fees too low because they are not recouping your cost?" 
 
No major red flags and some movement up and down can be normal based on timing differences of capital activity, and things of that nature, the parking garage shows as a negative but moving in the right direction as that debt ultimately rolls off of the books. 
 
Just a couple other highlights on the grant side – most $80 million of federal and state grant dollars spent to supplement the county's own funding. Ryan did mention the one new accounting standard related to IT subscriptions. I always like to touch for the record that in the financial statements, it does show a massive liability called "pension liability" but I would like to note for the record is that is theoretical provided by the state for the county disclose. 
 
The ongoing obligation is based on payroll, the required contributions are made and we did note that was for the County side, as well as all of the constitutional officers. 
 
With that, again, want to make it quick but I'd be more than glad to answer any questions. Thank you all again for giving me a chance to be careful. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Reinhart. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
Quick question real quick and why was there a negative in the parking garage? 
 
SPEAKER: 
Was there a transfer last? Ryan probably has the specifics. 
 
RYAN OSSOWSKI: 
They are going through the different tax 
 
MATT REINHART: 
OK. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I'm thinking in terms of the audit was the year and in 2022 when the Council approved a $1.9 million loan from the Ocean Center to the parking garage, that loan for this books purposes shows as a liability and makes it look like there is a negative. It's not government funds. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
I got you, OK. 
 
SPEAKER: 
The loan is off the books on that basis. In a parking garage, you record that loan as a liability and the Ocean Center makes it look like it is in the negative. Zach mentioned it is headed in the right direction. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
Aren't they doing a floor per year? 
 
SPEAKER: 
There there might be a request for a loan. But we do see in the long run, the ability to pay that loan and then for that actually to be... 
 
MATT REINHART: 
Which makes sense. Alright, thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Santiago. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Thank you, question on the evac and I don't know if any of you can answer. Does evac operate revenue neutral? 
 
RYAN OSSOWSKI:  
Every year, they reserve (indiscernible) and every year they have reserves related to many of the PPMT programs and its additional Medicaid dollars that has been a real influx to that fund and it's been able to build up a little bit of a reserve. Given the fact that fund is subsidized by the General fund, if it was needed, that whole reserve legally's general fund money which is why it's part of this book's general fund. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Approximately how much do we put in every year? 
 
SPEAKER: 
$6.7 million. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Can I have a motion to accept the audit? Motion by Matt Reinhart and second by Councilman Santiago. All in favour say 'aye'. Any opposed? It carries 7-0, thank you once again. 
 
And now, item 15, we will discuss recommended changes to the ECHO guidebook. 
 
BRAD BURBAUGH: 
Good afternoon, Brad Burbaugh, Community Services Director. I will go over the recommended guidebook changes. This is a process that your appointed advisory committee goes through each year after the current grant cycle. In terms of modification – recommend modifications as part of the charge that is part of the enabling resolution as you can see here. 
 
They periodically look and make recommendations to Council. You know? What they did on April 11, 2024, is they had the eight recommendations before you that I will go over and explain the rationale and I would be happy to answer any questions as quickly as possible. 
 
The first changes recommended and this is just for consistency's sake. And one breath, we say that ECHO values and ECHO values public and private partnerships. Here is what the book reads: ECHO recognizes that public and private partnerships might be mutually beneficial. Private, for-profit entities might be engaged to perform management services only if the ECHO goals and application commitments are maintained. All management agreements existing or future must be approved by the County to ensure compliance with these objectives. 
 
So, what this is doing is just for consistency's sake and this does not allow for-profit entities to access the grant program, or ECHO monies and what it does is it allows for-profit entities to manage or run facilities that are ECHO facilities. That is why the modification or the recommendation is. 
 
An example of this would fully coming before you in the future is Jackie Robinson. The Tortugas is a for-profit entity and they lease and have a management agreement with the city of Daytona Beach to manage that facility. Any questions on this change? This is the one I figured I would get the most questions for. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Danny? No? 
 
BRAD BURBAUGH: 
This is just a clarification. A modification is a policy adjustment, first for your sake, a clarification is just clarifying the rule to give the applicant more information. We say that if you are not completed, with a project on time, that you will not be eligible for additional funding. This just operationalizes and tells the individual until the project is meant completed. 
 
Change three, counsel to incite trail development, because it was a priority of this counsel, or of previous councils, they said when developing a trail that's on the county's master plan – so this is mostly for the cities because we have the trail set aside for County projects, you could use that property value as up to 100% of the value as the match. 
 
Additionally, what we are recommending what the Committee is recommending is to add trailheads. In order to close the gap we have about $70 million in funding from DOT in the five-year work plan, mostly in our Eastside municipal partners. 
 
So what we are saying here is that trailheads are not funded in the DOT workplan, so this gives him an opportunity, hopefully as an incentive to come to Echo to develop those trailheads so that people can access the trails. Yes, sir? 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Mr Santiago has a question for you. 
 
BRAD BURBAUGH: 
Right now 25% of land can be use as much, that is the maximum. You can use up to 100% of the value of the property as much is what we are saying. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Gotcha but aren't the trail programs County programs? How can we understand who can submit for a real program? 
 
BRAD BURBAUGH: 
Municipal partners. We are not responsible for trail development and alignment within the city's, that is within their purview. They go to the DOT and they have to go to a feasibility study to get in on the list, discuss alignment – it's very political in those urban areas. 
 
For example, I would say that our immiscible partners on the east side are a little behind the County because they are going through a more urban environment and there's more consternation about the alignment of the trail, so as I said, $70 million is in the work plan to support the connection of the river to sea loop, which is the signature trail. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Just for consistency and looking at the entire program, were other types of land projects considered? What I'm saying is that, let me put a disclaimer before I get beat up, I'm not against trails. I like them and I have used them. Same comment though, I think looking at the big picture, I want to make sure that we are looking at policy changes such as this, holistically, that may be others – I don't know the answer.  
 
There may be other worthy types of land projects that should be considered for 100 or 75%, whatever it might be. Why specifically – question, would this be the only one that has 100% match? I guess it's a two-part question. 
 
BRAD BURBAUGH: 
This would be trails and trailheads. So if you are developing a trail- 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I just want to make sure. If we adopt this change, with that category be the only ones that are eligible for hundred percent match? 
 
BRAD BURBAUGH: 
Trails and trailheads, yes. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
So other types of projects are not eligible for hundred percent match? 
 
BRAD BURBAUGH: 
25%, yes. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
That's where my problem lies. Again, nothing specific for or against trailheads, but I would be more interested in looking at what do we want to look at, category wise, that might be more worthy of 50% or 30%? Whatever the Council decides. 
 
To single out one without, what I would say, is not a very thorough vetting of other potential projects. I'm not blaming you, but I'm saying maybe we ought to look at broadening that, if we want to. I will leave my comments there to see what others think towards the end. There's a lot of potentially worthy projects that could be worthy of that. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Did this come from the Committee or staff? 
 
BRAD BURBAUGH: 
It came from staff, based on a conversation from municipal partners that were trying to establish some trailheads. So, I totally agree with you. This was put in here as a incentive – 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I like the reasoning. 
 
BRAD BURBAUGH: 
To make adjustments based on your priorities. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
There you go. What other potential priorities that we can leverage to ECHO that we want to get priorities to? Based on the comments, we might want to wait on this. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Is Tim Baylie in the room? No? It doesn't matter, you will know the answer. The county's trail system is nearly complete. 
 
BRAD BURBAUGH: 
I will say our signature trail, our portion is close, yes. At the master plan, there's a bunch of arteries that connect our recreational assets, that would be the next step. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
What I'm wondering if this is really to help the cities who were kind of behind, because of what you said, it's easier for us than in rural areas, it's harder for them going through cities, breakaways and all of that. Does it complete there sections of the trail? 
 
BRAD BURBAUGH: 
Where funding is not provided by FDOT by their work plan. So trailheads are not included in that FDOT funding. Whereas, we have six more to construct based on the master plan in the County portion. We will use the ECHO set aside to do that. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you. Any other questions about this section? Danny Robins. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Thanks, chair. David, I had roundabout concerns about this as well. I will second it, that way we can look at it holistically and see if there's any other projects or properties that we can adjust as well while we are on the project. If we decided to go with 100%, we can go with 100%, but I think it's worth it but just a couple of quick things and we can come back to that. 
 
I agree with the city's that they also need to play a role. If we are close to ours, then this is everyone's money, then I would like to have their input as well and see if we can come to the table is something to help out. Do our updated park impact fees, can any of that impact fee money from the parks be applied to this? 
 
BRAD BURBAUGH: 
To trailhead construction? I would have to defer, I think it needs to be a regional or a local park, and I don't know if Charles would qualify to meet that definition. Paolo is the one who has helped us. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
I think we increased it by hundreds, if not thousands. I think Council approved a million 1/2 dollars additional for trails, how are we sitting with that money? 
 
BRAD BURBAUGH: 
When you are elected, the recommendation of the advisory Committee was that you will increase it to 1.5 million. There is a plan for that money and right now we are using DOT money for the construction of the trail but none of it can be used for the purchase of land to run the trail through. There are some parcels that will have to be acquired, some probably have to go through the eminent domain process, you cannot use DOT money for that. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Right, but that 1.5 million, what cannot be used for again? Can it be used for what you are trying to accomplish to purchase and build trailheads? 
 
BRAD BURBAUGH: 
Yes, sir. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
I just want to see how many overlapping fund sources we have here and how we can allocate this money. What else? Is there something specific other than just trailheads? Do we have anything in the hopper that we need this for, or this funding for immediately that we couldn't tap into possibly, the impact fees are applicable, or that million and 1/2 dollars – is there something pressing that we have to use this for today? 
 
David, I will support you if you want to – 
 
BRAD BURBAUGH: 
Again, this is for the municipal partners. This was for the six trailheads that are left on our signature trial program. We are talking about that these grants and aid is separate from the 1.5, which is kind of a county direct expenditure. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Jake Johansson? 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
I guess I'm confused and want clarification. The trailhead right now is 25%? The cost? 
 
BRAD BURBAUGH: 
It can be 25% now. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Let's play the John Nicholson scenario back with the sports complex. Say we call Daytona and says they are doing this and have this big sectional land. If we say we will grab onto that with ECHO, would we say to them that the cost of that land is only, it can only be applied 25%, according to the ECHO Guidebook right now, if they apply for the program? 
 
BRAD BURBAUGH: 
That is correct. They could use up to 25% of their match, so 1/4 of every dollar, if they applied for a grant, the value of that property. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
If it was a trailhead and we changed it? I now have the same question that David does. What makes a trailhead more important than some other recreational thing that the city has land for, when they can only use 25%? I would like to investigate that more. I don't want to discount trailheads. I don't want to favor them. 
 
It's kind of like everything else: why can't we speed things up for everybody? Why does it only have to be for affordable housing? Why just trailheads? Why not for everybody? If we can do this and more, or less all around and make a equitable, I'm interested in that. Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
David Santiago. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I was going to make a motion but I don't of my colleagues have questions. I moved to approve the recommendations with the exceptions of number 10 and number 26. So we can have further discussions with staff as soon as possible. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Second. 
 
BRAD BURBAUGH: 
Page number 10 and page 26. Our definition of trailhead, which is this? 
 
MICHAEL G DYER: 
I believe they are labeled number three and eight. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Its page number, sorry. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
It was recommended number three and number eight. So you want to approve everything else? Except for three and eight? Is there a second to that? 
 
OK, Council member Robbins makes a second. You are not going to get to make the rest of your brilliant speech. 
 
All in favor of approving all of the changes, except for three and eight, say aye? Any opposed? 
 
BRAD BURBAUGH: 
One thing I might add, what I'm hearing from folks is that when we set the maximum grant award, the construction costs have risen dramatically since then. So I think if you are looking at some sort of wholesale relief to our partners across the Board, that might be the right strategy.  
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
That brings us to item 16, one that we all have to deal with. Property insurance. 
 
DANA PAIGE-PENDER: 
Good afternoon, chair, Council numbers. Dana Paige-Pender, Human Resources and with me today is Charles Spencer from Brown & Brown and we are requesting approval of our renewal of property insurance and the policies are with various carriers that are outlined in the agenda item. 
 
It is an overall increase of about 16% of which a little over 6% was due to an increase in values. At this time, we are here if you have any specific questions. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Robins. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Do you have any questions? Could you repeat that? 
 
DANA PAIGE-PENDER: 
Of 6% increase. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Of replacement cost? 
 
CHARLES SPENCER: 
I am Charles Spencer, County Risk Manager. The building, the property schedule, it can for various reasons – they can increase it and it can be through the purchase of additional properties we've had, and we had Woodland Square, it would cost $120,000 per year. Sorry, property values are based off of the value to rebuild the property from the ground up. You have to declare that value on your property schedule and charge premium based off of that. 
 
Since construction costs go up each year, your values, even if you don't buy new property, or building property, it will continue to rise because those values need to rise. We raise those about 4%. On top of that, we've added new properties to the schedule as well. 
 
So, we put on an extra $55 million. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Do our carriers require us to ensure up to replacement cost? 
 
CHARLES SPENCER: 
They have to declare the replacement cost on that. If it is undervalued, as an example, when I started, we have the Ocean Center for $89 million. That was what it cost to build when we built it. 
 
Which was a long time before. I went out and realized it was worth twice this, because we came along and did another extension. I had increase that from $89-$150 million at that point in time. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
What portions of the counties liability is self-insured? What types of policies, I should say? 
 
CHARLES SPENCER: 
Worker's Comp. general liability auto liability, public professionals, employment practices, and then we have the deductible, the large deductibles for your property insurance. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
What are the percentages of those? Is it by percentage? 
 
CHARLES SPENCER: 
It is percentage or minimum and it's $1 million minimum for the windstorm. With four or 5% of the value of the property that is damaged, not all the properties of the County gestures the damaged properties. Whichever comes first. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Sorry, colleagues, and trying to get some questions here. I will just use this facility. This is kind of like a bunkered facility for me. I am a construction guy but I consider it a bunkered facility. What is the last time we had a claim on this facility that penetrated our deductible? 
 
CHARLES SPENCER: 
We haven't had claims on this facility but if we take it off, it won't be insured in the event there is something that happens like a fire. 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
We have FEMA requirements. I don't see Ryan right now. They review us and our insurance. If we are not carrying enough, they are not covering us. If anything, they are getting tougher as time goes on. I want communities to be better assured. Remember, it's a last resort. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
I get it. My intent is to drill down – are we over-insuring ourselves? I don't know the answer. Do we need insurance on everything based on historical analysis? That's the only reason I'm asking the question. 
 
CHARLES SPENCER: 
There are things that we do put on those and in the past we didn't have the restrooms at the beach because you have a lot of those. The value is not much. There was $100,000. They were concrete cinderblocks. That was it. With metal doorlet's or something like that. We did have to purchase coverage on those, because for the first time in our history, we lost one of those things. 
 
FEMA comes out and says, now you have a duty to obtain and maintain. We had to go back, otherwise we wouldn't be eligible for future FEMA funds. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
The deductibles are based on each individual facility or overall deductible from the county policy? 
 
CHARLES SPENCER: 
There is a minimum of $1 million and if you have $1 million across 10 buildings, you don't get anything at all and once you cross that million, you are looking to see, is that amount more than 5% of the total values of this property? If it is, you get the amount that is over 5%. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Vice Chair Kent. 
 
TROY KENT: 
Thank you, Mr Chairman. We are looking at a 6% increase, $700,000 let's say, $800,000. Some out there might say 1 million bucks, close to it, right? The coverage limits are $25 for a storm, for flood, it's a man, that's the limit. Deductible is 5% with a minimum of a million-dollar occurrence. My question is: how many claims to have last year? None? 
 
CHARLES SPENCER: 
Those two... yes, that was in 2022. 
 
TROY KENT: 
That wasn't last year, was it? We have storms last year, in 2023? We had hurricanes? 
 
(Multiple speakers) 
 
RYAN OSSOWSKI: 
September 2023 and everything that's happening right now, all of the FEMA claims definitely Nicole, and I classified Ian when I said that. 
 
(Multiple speakers) 
 
SPEAKER: 
Thank you, as it was. 
 
TROY KENT: 
We had a zero claims last year and we are having an increase of almost $800,000. 
 
CHARLES SPENCER: 
The principle behind insurance is we all share in each other's losses. And by doing that, it's affordable for everyone. 
 
TROY KENT: 
I can go along with that if we shared with everybody's profits. 
 
CHARLES SPENCER: 
I am in the insurance industry. 
 
TROY KENT: 
I think you are doing a wonderful job. Thank you for the information. How long have we been with Brown and Brown and have we shopped around and looked at prices? If so, when? 
 
CHARLES SPENCER: 
Every five years, we go out to bid and get the responses back. It's been with Brown & Brown since before I was here. 
 
TROY KENT: 
$800,000 with no claims? I'm struggling. A little bit. 
 
CHARLES SPENCER: 
If I may interject – if you take the amount that we have paid out in claims over the last several years, it is actually exceeded the amount that we pay the premiums. One year, we got $8 million and we only paid out maybe $3 million. That was the year and that was in 2017. 
 
And we've had several others. 
 
TROY KENT: 
I appreciate you sharing that. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Santiago? 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Nope, I am done. He answered my question. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK, Councilman Robins? 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Motion to approve. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Motion to approve the increase by Danny Robins. Second by Matt Reinhart. Any other questions? Debate? All in favor say 'aye'? Any opposed? Thank you. It is a tough vote. 
 
OK. That brings us to our final. We have got to request to speak. The first is John Nicholson. 
 
JOHN NICHOLSON: 
John Nicholson, Daytona Beach side. Going back to something we talked about earlier, that small, $41 million baseball field, from ECHO. A singular grant of $41 million for a ballpark. Similar grants are usually $3 million if you get a super grant from ECHO, it is $3 million and none of you blinked. I was really surprised. 
 
Are we changing the policy of ECHO so that we give out $41 million to whatever cities want? But it shocked me. I want to say that the staff was gracious enough to give me a meeting, thank you, Mr Kent. 
 
For a long time, I hate to mention the city of Daytona Beach contributed to Volusia Forever and got nothing back. Well, it's true! We don't get anything back. We also don't have anything that we can buy, in our city. What I do want to say that I always estimate that we are giving about $20 million. It turned out to be less than $19 million. My numbers were off, but not by that much, I don't think. 
 
Secondly, the motorcross. I'm sorry, Don, but I'm seeing a much larger venue in the future. I was in Miami when this small little, tiny flight school left Miami to go to Daytona Beach and turn into (Unknown Name) University. Huge increase. NASCAR, they raced on the beach. They built a venue out West. Huge facility. I am anticipating if we do it right, that the area that you are talking about, one, the neighbors would hate it. We would get 2000 signatures on it. Secondly, there is no room to grow and if it did, it would really destroy the neighborhood and that's why I recommend the north end. 
 
Especially since I heard earlier that the softball and baseball diamonds were in the wetlands. You had to fill it in. I was told we could not do it on the north side because it was wetlands. If you can do wetlands and Orange City, you can do wetlands in Daytona Beach. 
 
Third, on race, I was at a city commission meeting last Wednesday and somebody asked me to vote for candidate and I said no because I'm voting for the other candidate because I know her, she was on our board and I helped her husband and grow their business. 
 
She said, "you will not vote for my candidate because he is Black?" I'm like, "I didn't know your candidate is Black." I never saw anything, the first thing that came to that person's mind was race. We have to stop thinking about race. Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Pamela Walker. 
 
PAMELA WALKER: 
Good afternoon, my name is Pamela Walker and I have been here before. I'm here to speak on homelessness wisdom I am a victim of homelessness. I have been in the city for two years and moved here in 2022 to a home off of 1209, South Delaware and this home was not in any reasonable, should have been rented. OK? 
 
After I was put out the home and had election on me, I am not able to rent anything and got that eviction off of my record. I found for another one and I moved to Daytona to the slumlord – this abusive landlord that I had. Now I am dealing with where I filed for a second state. 
 
You know, I am at a pain point. I am out here living in my truck with my animals. I am being abused by animal control saying I am abusing my animals. I'm not going to jail for any animals. I have 4 animals I've been dealing with the storm and FEMA refusing to pay for housing because they say I didn't have any hotel receipts with. Living in your cars, you will not have any hotel receipts. 
 
I'm dealing with this and it's really ridiculous and trying to have someone help me get this eviction off and not just me, I have two elderly men and one is living in a car and another one is a cancer person and has been put out of his house because the person has sold his house, and he was living in a room. He is out there, too. We are all working people and in our 60s. We need some help. I'm in a program called disability solutions in Daytona, that is supposed to help with housing, and I am finding out they have two extended-stay hotels and ever since last August I was in this program and you still don't have any housing, I am using my Social Security money to rent a U-Haul to get around with my animals in the U-Haul. And then they are taking over a month to refund my money back, somebody needs to investigate them also. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Thank you. And that brings us to closing comments... We will start with the County manager. 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
Yes sir, thank you. Couple things, just wanted to let everyone know that we officially launched the Volusia County permit and code concierge service. It does provide residents and a dedicated liaison to act as a single point of contact and assist with their permitting and code needs. And navigating those processes. 
 
It can help with a variety of other County services including planning, land development, building permits, fire code requirements. And that is now officially up and operating. The other thing I wanted to bring up, the workshop that we had previously had scheduled has been moved. We went back and ran calendars and dates, it looks like the week of July 22, specifically Tuesday, July 23, if you wanted to keep on a Tuesday Thursday schedule, at 3 PM, there are openings for everybody who would be in the workshop. 
 
So if that works for everybody, we could do the 22nd or the 24th, but I was trying to keep to the Tuesday schedule. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
It could be anywhere between there, 22-24, 22 being Tuesday. Can we have you send this out in an email to everybody? 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
If you guys are good with it, all I need is a head nod that everyone is good. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
And everybody look at our calendars, and see if July 22, 23rd, 24th... 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
July 22, afternoon workshop. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Good. Figma good. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Good. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Hold on... 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
And we lock us in with a motion? 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
If somebody can't make it, we still do it. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Motion to have the workshop on July 23 at 3 PM... 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
All in favor say 'Aye'. July 23... 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
Last thing, tomorrow there will be quite a few of us, I do not know if any of you will be there, but we are honoring National Tourism and Travel Week and quite a few County people... I will be there giving a discussion and thanking all the folks in our tourism industry in the county, which is one of our largest if not the largest employer. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Can I clarify who seconded the motion for the workshop? 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Second for the workshop was... The motion was Danny Robins, the second was... Did anybody seconded? 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Motion was Johansen, I believe, second was Robbins. 
 
SPEAKER: 
I did have Johansen, so we will say the second was Danny Robins. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK. Mr County attorney, Michael Dyer. 
 
MICHAEL G DYER: 
Yes, on March 5, you discussed... You requested some more information on dissolving the animal control board, library advisory board. We can send that out to you or generate an agenda item that you can vote up or down, that might make it one agenda item instead of two discussions. But if counsel has a preference as to how to proceed, we are happy to follow it. There is a third board reference, that is your business incubator board, I am going to send you an email about that. That is required in our contract with UCF. So we can terminate that contract, I know you were discussing that, but that is a unique one where it is required by our contract. 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
Let me add, the incubator is a different animal... So we will be talking, as we move into the budget, similar to what I think Councilman Johansson said earlier. These are some of the things were we are writing a check. So there will be discussions or presentations from those agencies. So I would say set that aside. And just concentrate on... 
 
MICHAEL G DYER: 
Unless you have an objection we can generate the item for animal control board and library advisory board, and you can put it up or down if you wish. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK, any objections? Do it. 
 
MICHAEL G DYER: 
Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
That brings us to council members, Mr Troy Kent. 
 
TROY KENT: 
Thank you, Chairman. Counsel, just a few comments. Earlier today we were talking about the importance of better paying, higher wage jobs in our county. And foundation risk partners and their owner CEO Charlie (Name) shared with me that of course their headquarters are in Volusia County in Ormond Beach. There are almost $7 million in annual revenues, with more than 2000 employees countywide. National headquarters are here with hundred and 25 very high-paying jobs right here in Volusia County. I wanted to share that with you all. 
 
The next thing I want to share with you is I know you all, because I received several emails recently about some individuals that... They want us to stop immediately the dog friendly section of our beach. What is it called? What are we doing? Pilot, thank you. The pilot program. 
 
So I did not reply all on an email, because it did not want to give Mike Dyer heartburn, even though some of you do reply all, and truly, I am not the expert in the sunshine law, but I truly believe by me replying all to someone that wrote all of us, there is no violation, unless one of you then respond. But I was cautious anyway... 
 
So Mr and Mrs Taylor from the Georgian end, which by the way is a timeshare, from the best I could find out, this couple lives up north and is here maybe a week or two weeks out of the year. I wanted to share what I wrote to her, so all of you could hear. Her and him. Mr and Mrs Taylor, thank you for reaching out to me with your concerns. I live here full-time, and I'm down there often, and I have never seen what you describe. Ever. We have a team of volunteers who patrol that section of the beach 8 to 10 hours a day. Daily. And they have never seen what you described. 
 
We have hired animal control officers to patrol this area, and they have never seen what you describe. How can all these groups not see this yet you are seeing it? There were not dogs off leash running free, come on. That is fear mongering and totally inaccurate. By the way, the volunteers patrol the beach in that area for dog waste and they never find it. For you to say the sand smells of urine, that is more fear mongering. Because high tide comes in twice a day, and mother nature cleans the sand naturally with the ties. I have never smelled your in there, but I have seen a few dirty diapers left behind. 
 
Our volunteers have already picked up over 500 pounds of trash from this half-mile stretch, like I said, I am down there often with my family and my children, and never have we seen what you are reporting. I have seen residents and visitors alike be able to enjoy their beach with their dogs for the first time in 35 years. Please know, before this change happened, people still brought their dogs to the beach, they just did it illegally. Now they can do it legally. 
 
If you and your other part-time owners do not want to visit an area of the beach where dogs are allowed, then you can literally walk 50 feet to your self, where does it not a lot. Hope you have a good day. I just wanted to make sure you all heard, I put on the public record, I will not be bullied. I am not afraid. And I will defend and fight for what I believe is right. 
 
There was a petition, by the way I was late to lunch, I did two interviews in here with Fox and West News today. I will tell you, there is a petition started by an individual who lives in a condominium, and after X number of days and weeks he had like 220 odd signatures. And then (Name) started one and within three or four days she had over 500 signatures on hers. 
 
I am just sharing this so that we hear the whole story. But for someone to have a fear of dogs, I don't think that needs to be projected to the public. 80 people die every day in vehicle crashes in the United States. Maybe someone will make a petition about stopping driving, so that they can get to and from their safe space safely. 
 
So I just put that out there, so you all are aware there is fear mongering. There are untruths. And here are some facts that we actually have. We have real data, I do not want to steal stuff slander, because I know they will be presenting to us in the future. But the last four months, there have been 6223 dogs counted in this area. There have been 204 warnings when people seen a dog off leash. That is 3% by the way. 
 
There have been two warnings of a dog using the restroom and it not being picked up. 100% compliance. Our staff stated, this is not (Name) at Daytona Dog Beach. This is RSS data. 100% compliance when they said "hey, glad you are enjoying every thing, I don't know if you know, your dog is supposed to be in a lease." "Sorry, had no idea." You don't use the washroom, you have to clean it up. Sorry, didn't know. 100% compliance. And I've heard from the Sheriff's office that some people outside of the dog friendly section of the beach, when approached, they say this is a service animal. Done discussion, right there. Over and done with. They cannot ask for proof, that's it. 
 
So I think it is important to see that. And I'm very appreciative of the individual that sent us the pictures of the dogs on the beach. And I wrote them, I don't think they will like my response, because I wrote and said "thank you so much, the dogs and donors look fairly happy in these pictures." In fact, I swear the dog looks like he is smiling. And by the way, they are all on the leash, thank you for that also. Anyway, just wanted to share with you. 
 
Counsel, the Ormond Beach city commission tonight is going to be talking about a brand-new hotel going to be billed to the old quality insight on seminal approach. I want you all to know that staff talk to me a couple months ago, because there was some discussion from the attorney and the developer that there is a sidewalk... There was some discussion about who was going to have to take care of the sidewalk if they put it in. 
 
And I was like, you know, that is where I grew up surfing, there is a beach ramp you can get access to and from the beach ramp. I did not get to look at the conceptual plan, until last night, and when I did, it makes total sense to have a sidewalk. So that you and your family are not walking down the beach approach where you have got the outrigger and then public parking and people are backing up her pulling forward while you are trying to walk down there with your kids or the elderly. It does make sense to have a sidewalk there, we have one shot to get this right, so my hope is that Ormond Beach tonight holds the developer accountable and says, "we are going to approve this, but you have to have the sidewalk." Just wanted to let you know about that. 
 
Two short things left. I wish we really stuck with a time limit on presentations. That we talked about as a group in here. I think that almost everybody, unless it is a quasijudicial hearing, I think everybody can get what they need to say in five minutes. We limited ourselves to five minutes, we are given the material ahead of time. I know I do my homework, I know you will do your homework. So George, my hope is that these can be down to five minutes. Who was the winner today, was it Ben Bartlett? Was he the one? Tad? Who did that? 
 
And last but not least, I wrote you privately, and I was not going to say anything publicly, but because you mentioned it. Don, I just want you to know that the Kent family collectively, you have been in our thoughts and prayers, and I'm so sorry about the loss of your mother. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Reinhart. 
 
MATT REINHART: 
Thank you, chair. First off I bring some levity before I get serious. Troy, I am going to have to have you buy a home in my subdivision, because we are really trying to get a fountain there, and I'm thinking you have more luck with it. Appreciate that. I had to do that. Don, also, you have been in our prayers, I know what you enter, I just went through it a little over a year ago. We are with you, if you ever need anything, please, do not hesitate. And it is not a sunshine law violation if you reject and asked for help, so we will not vote on it. Lastly, on a serious matter, I know you will roll your eyes. Because every time I bring up the jail, you roll your eyes. 
 
But I will tell you, it is not about inmate programs. This is something very serious to me. And I hope I have your attention. Yesterday I had the opportunity to present the proclamation for corrections officers week. This event coincided with some recent promotions within corrections, many of these officers had their families present, which is something that was not done when I first started back in the 80s. 
 
Seeing their families there was so important, and all their families was there, children, wives, girlfriends. Husbands... As this may be the only recognition that many of them will ever receive. Even close to being public. This event made me start to think and brings me to my point, Mr Santiago and I attended a law enforcement appreciation event just recently. And both of us had the same idea. These ceremonies, for our sheriff's deputy, is there another deputy here? I think you very much for your service, beyond measure, you guys are phenomenal, and we thank you. It is important to recognize you. Fire services, same thing, EMS, doctors, nurses, all of the first responders are important. 
 
But so are our corrections officers. In my 30 years I have never seen where they have done a recognition for them, outside of the jail. I found it necessary to ask if I could do the proclamation inside the jail, and I was accommodated, I appreciate that. 
 
Now I know they do not have to worry about handling riot situations or breaking up fights, being involved in physical altercations themselves, or being assaulted with a weapon, being spit on them, having bodily fluids thrown at them, having their families threatened, being cut, stabbed, or the worst situation, being killed in the line of duty... Oh wait, yes they do. We have seen it. In fact, during my tenure, I have had five knee surgeries, two neck surgeries, several blows to the head, the last knee surgery was a totally replacement. All of which result of physical altercations with inmates. 
 
Therefore, my plea to the organizations that are out there, but put on these events, consider these brave men and women of corrections to be included. I know for a fact that our very own sheriff would not mind sharing the stage with his brave men and women within our sheriff department, or our fire chief. I want to reflect what our new director of corrections... By the way, outstanding. So when you are in public, please do all you can't recognize these brave men and women, all the first responders, and please the corrections officers. I will give a shout out to the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, (Name), she is going to put every effort to put them on for next year for the recognition. It is very near and dear to my heart, I have had friends... One close friend who is retired now had the pencil stabbed in his eye. 
 
We had a CO right down the road, a female, that was killed by an inmate. It happens every day. They are the ones you do not want to talk about. So take a moment when you see them to thank them for keeping the criminal element out of their neighborhoods. That is all, thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Robbins. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Thank you, chair. Counsel, for a couple meetings now in a row we have heard from members of the towing industry, here locally. I do not know if we give a nod of heads are made a motion to staff. Did we set a date on getting them in here? 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
Yes, you guys give us direction and we are putting that it together. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
OK, thank you, George. My memory is shot. 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
I want to comment though, glad you... The young lady that spoke today, I would love to get some further clarification, because her discussion was 100% opposite of what the previous group that had come in here and said. So we will get... Try to get that clarified, but what we are talking about is the towing rates that are charged to folks who get towed off of private property. I have talked to the sheriff, or our team has, and there is a contract that has been bid out, and they are going to honor all of that. That is not what the people who came in here last time... They are talking about the rules that apply, and we will go over all of that when we present. Exactly what they are talking about and what fees. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
I think that is great, we just need to get on the same page with that. Thank you. Counsel, I would like in the future if we can direct staff to look into, or at least have a discussion, I do not even know if we need to get really involved to the end, naming of county assets in the future. I think what we did today was excellent and awesome and good deed for that family and for Judge Henderson's service. But I think we can maybe put together a panel to rank and review this process and that kind of takes it out of our court, and maybe puts it in the public's court. I think the more the merrier, because we miss things. 
 
Chair, do you want to motion for staff to maybe look at a policy for the future naming of county assets? 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
If that is your pleasure, make the motion. 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
What exactly... What would be the motion? 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
To direct you guys to come up with some sort of plan or policy where we could, when it came to naming our county assets, where it would go to a board, or a panel... 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
I have already got staff working on it from other discussions. We've got two, four, six, eight counties already with what they are doing. We will have some more, put together, and bring back some options, so we can see. And they range, I can tell you, it is interesting, just reading through. There are some with committees, there are other things that tell you... That break down different assets in different things. So there's quite a bit here, I would like a little bit of time. But we will try to give it to you here in a couple meetings. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Great, thank you. I had a constituent, efficient guy, reach out to me about the ice machine, do we have a timeline on when those will be operational? It does not need to be now, I did not want to forget about it. 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
I will get back to it. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
When we get to the parks that we have it, can we make up signs that say ice machine in... Because where it is tucked in that river breeze, you would not know it's there. Just food for thought. Lastly, when we are on the phone with DOT for Don's trendline, there is some really great DOT pawns located on 44 and throughout the county. I do not know what their policy is, but I would like to make and ask to maybe... People fish at those things anyway. I see families out there all the time. There are signs up. 
 
They are doing it anyway, can we see if they may want to work with us and open that up? Where our folks can legally take their kids and it doesn't cost nothing? Go have some fun? It is high and dry. That's... OK. That's about it. Thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Santiago. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Thank you, Mr Chairman. I had a few things, had to strike the first one because of Matt. I was going to complement you for not bringing up the jails in this meeting, but then I had to strike that out. But you brought it up for good reason, so it's a good one. I wanted to concur with your comments on recognizing our corrections officers. 
 
I did speak with three board members at the chamber, and they are going to included next year in their valid awards I was told. I will try to keep track of that as it progresses. Naming rights, thank you Danny for bringing that up. I think having a good firm policy, that allows for... And I don't think it's necessary always vetting, it needs to include vetting, but also... More in depth than just was is a good person or not? I think it also needs to, in some cases, we need to look at... I would love to know what buildings we have also in the county that are named. I did not know what they are. So if we are going to go down that path, tell me what is named in the county, and who after. And we will dive into that policy when the time comes. The other thing I wanted to bring up was the motocross site. I know we had people... I did not attend the meeting, apparently it was well attended. 
 
It looks like we are going to have... From what we are seeing in here, we are going to have a lot of objection from the community over there. I still support the motocross site, I think I may have made the motion that day. Or seconded it. It is not about the motocross thing, I think it will be a great diversification for our county, in terms of other things that people can do. I think we should look at other sites, if possible. I was wondering if there is anything available near the fairgrounds? 
 
I don't know, I know there is private property owners out there. I love the location, I went to the site where we are proposing it, I think it is kind of sort of out there. And that long road that takes you in there. To me, was not very appealing to go to this type of facility, if we want to make it a venue where people want to come and spend money. I don't know if there is any potentials around the fairgrounds or other sites, not to specifically saying that. I like that area around 44 because it is I-4, State Road 44, easy access. Really little to no homes in the general area. And it is already kind of sort of an activity area, so I don't know, I wanted to throw that out there, because I think we are going to be in for a fight for sight. It is supported, we will figure it out. That is it, Mr Chair, thank you. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Councilman Dempsey. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
1st of all I would like to thank everybody for the support, it has been wonderful, I appreciate Jake coming out to the funeral. So thank you, everybody is been great. It's been great. As far as the motocross facility, I suppose I have been the point person, and my own doing, I have become the point person for this whole project. If you have not picked up on the vibe, I do have frustrations with the Huntington group, because I have always maintained this could be done for two or $3 million, no more than we spent on pickle ball, which is almost 3.5 million that we spent on pickle ball. If we can create funding for parks and recreation for the older people to do pickle ball, I think we owe it to our youth to give them one place to be able to ride in the county. 
 
I would like to know where they got this location, because I have's I would like to know where they got this location, because as I've said in the media, I do not know if this is the best location. And that lady was right, I told her, I would not wanted in my backyard, I get you. I understand their concerns, and they are valid. The silver lining to all of this is that... I don't know if you guys have seen any of the social media, on Facebook or this other stuff, but there is a huge support for this. And even the people who were against it seemed to show support for the need in general of a facility like this. It is just not in my backyard, which I get. 
 
So I guess that's the one, like you said, silver lining to this. I would just like to find another location. I would love to know, I don't know how I can get this information from staff. I would like to know where Hunden looked. I would like a list of all the properties they looked at, to find out why those were turned down. Did we just look at two or three properties or did we actually look at all the County properties and thoroughly evaluate our options? I am very skeptical of how thorough and how deep they looked for an alternate site. 
 
I was told by the neighbors that they were never contacted. I understand the frustration, I am not trying to shove it down the throat. I just want to find a location that is remote. So I do not know how we can direct staff. I would like to do the research, because the saying if you wanted done right, you gotta do it yourself. I will do it. I do not trust Hunden to do it. 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
Let me just say, they were asked to look at size, they looked at three sites, I was told. They selected the one they did because we owned it. The other two sites would have to be acquired, so that is why they picked the side that they did. You and I have talked, we are open to other sites, it is just that is one we own, and we are positive to it. There are two roads that access it, even though they are not in the best of condition yet. 
 
But I think that is why again it had some value to take a look at. But obviously, I think all sites are gonna have something. Some good, some bad. That one obviously has a neighborhood that could be affected by the noise. So we are definitely committed to the project, and if it is the will of the Council, we will continue to look at other properties. Don, we will consult you and work with you, if you want to be the point to the project, that is great. We have already also asked some of the other attorneys that got involved already. We already put the word out that we were open to other properties, people they may be representing. Because sometimes they know of properties that we are not aware of, that maybe are not really on the market, but could be purchased at a reasonable rate.  
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
 would I be able to get a list of all the county owned properties that are available? In their field elevation? 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
Yes, but with that you will have to get a list of all the restrictions that are on a lot of those properties as well. That is the other point. That was one of the properties that was bought and that would not of been a restriction on that particular piece of property, whether there be others even in that area that were bought with (indiscernible) for instance. Where there are properties, there is a Daytona Beach property out there on the backside of the landfill. 
 
But yes, we can do that, and reach out with the information we have. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Before you go on, Danny Robins. 
 
DANNY ROBINS: 
Real quick, to keep you in the loop, I had requested from George an aerial of the landfill property in the property surrounding it. I have lived out there for 20+ years and I'm pretty intimate with just about everyone out there. And I have my pulse on that, even the lady that I was answering a question to Jake that he had, even her. Nonetheless, there is a lot of property out there. I think there is a way to do this. And look at this, looking at other properties, but also looking at an aerial. Because they do have valid concerns, that corner there right before Halifax East... Excuse me, north of there, it is deadly. There are issues, noise, there are things we can do where we can massage this and put it on a different possibly location of that property. Or consider a different location on the property. 
 
So really, how you make the sausage... The ball is in our court, a lot of people have jumped to conclusion, I do want to point out that staff did an excellent presentation, unfortunately not a lot of people read it. Even there at the meeting. Because of her several options, and I can say that because I have been monitoring the social media as well. And did you have overwhelming support, I would say 80-20, but that 20% still needs representation. 
 
So I think if we dissect this a little bit, I think we can come up with something to make it work, because I do see a public need for it, as you do, and many others. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
As part of that request, George, could I see the ultimate side to the landfill as well? Because that was an eight month delay in the project is to get to where we are. I mean, come on. I would like to see it and look for myself where we could go and not trust this group from Chicago to do their job. I would just do it myself. So if I can get that information, that would be awesome, thanks. 
 
TROY KENT: 
Our chairman stepped out, next is our at-large member, Mr Johansen. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Thank you very much. A lot of what we talked about today was on my list, so I will skip through all of that, we are moving forward on all my notes, except... We have a policy issue regarding accepting digital media. And we established that policy. 
 
From what I can tell, we broke it today. As great as it was to have the slides for the quasijudicial hearing from (Name). A stick was handed from him to Carissa, plugged into our machine, and used. And the reason we have that policy is because we want to be able to scan it first. And we ask for 24 hours prior. We ask for it 24 hours prior for anybody. 
 
So I just want to take caution on that. It does not play well when we do it for somebody that we might not care about, and then abuse the privilege or otherwise restrict the privilege when it is somebody who might not want to hear from? I don't know. 24 hours is 24 hours. If we do not get that digital media, and I think it is 24 hours. It is our plan that unfortunately we need to stick to that. He could've done it without the pictures, which would have stunk. Or we could of continued it to the next meeting, and shame on them for not being prepared. 
 
SPEAKER: 
Mr Johansen, I was going to disagree with that. I was not aware... He said he had emailed it, I did not catch that he handed you the flash drive. So when that comes up again, we can just offer him the opportunity to either proceed without it or ask for a continuance. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
There is no way we can make 24 hours smashed into a couple minutes. Also, a couple... It was months ago. We had talked about approving the agenda as one of the first things we do, and did we do it once? I think we might've done at once, and then it fell out of the mix. I kind of went back, my son graduated this weekend, so I did not do a lot of research, but I kind of went back and tried to look at where we voted on it, and I did not know if we ever did. And is that something that some counties do it in some counties don't? Is that something we want to vote on? And memorialize it so it becomes part of Carissa's item 1 or whatever it is? And we approve the agenda as written before we move on. I also do it on some of the boards I'm on. So I know you all have probably experienced that elsewhere. 
 
But being the big process guy, I'm interested in having that discussion and making that motion. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
J, hold on one second. Councilman Santiago. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Can I make a motion? 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
I made the motion to add agenda approval as item number one, I think it would be item number one, on the agenda. 
 
DAVID SANTIAGO: 
Second. 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Should be easy enough to do for next meeting if it gets approved. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
To approve the agenda as item 1, beginning of each meeting, motion is made by Jake Johansson, and the second was Danny Robins. Questions or discussion? All in favor say 'aye'... Any opposed? 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
That is all I have, chairman. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Carissa, you will get that on...? 
 
JAKE JOHANSSON: 
Thank you, Carissa. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Just a couple things. Troy, I am curious, did you get a reply to your email yet? 
 
TROY KENT: 
That email I sent, the husband and wife? Yes, she wrote something to the effect of thanks for your carbon copied email. Because I sent one very similar to the other person. And it did not write her back and say... I did not tell her your email was exactly that, yours was copied by two or three people from the same place. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
I think we all got those emails. George and I, and I think there might be another, there was a lot of employees there, county employees, firefighters, that were able to go to the firefighters award dinner. Or award ceremony, there is something going on the same night, not every Council member can go to everything that we have. But I want to say that it was an impressive night, with an impressive group of people. Everyone of our firefighters. I think when I first started here, actually came up when I was first thinking about running. I was contacted by some firefighters, some EMS people. About the dangers that they felt of having two men stations. If there is a house involved in a fire, one guy goes inside, the other guys at the truck, and wondering if the guy inside by himself will come out. 
 
The county has stepped up, and it was not easy financially, but we now have three men stations. In every station in the county, I think except for the airport station, which is a very specialized station. 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
Correct, and actually I think they have three at times there. There are two stations I think with four. You are Pearson, and your Oak Hill. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
That does two things, it keeps the public safe, you do not always need three guys, you do not always need to guys. There are times when nothing is happening. When you need them, you need them. And it also is not just a benefit to the people that live in Volusia County, but the people that we hire that serve as firefighters, corrections, whatever, we want them to be able to go home alive at the end of their shift to their families. So does two things. I am really pleased that we are able to do that. 
 
George, talking about the towing, you have probably talked to them. I serve on the TPO with John Rogers, who owns a towing company I believe. He is also a public... Elected public servant. I think the only thing they are asking for something similar to Flagler County. You are probably aware of that, if not, throwing that in, because that is what they are going to come back with. They want the same deal that Flagler County got for public towing. 
 
On the workshop meeting for zoning, you said July 23, time, was at 3 o'clock? 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
3 o'clock. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
3 PM, is there... I am assuming you looked at everybody's schedule, staff schedules, we had this scheduled for several months, we had to change it. This is early May, so now we're looking at late July. Was there anything in June? 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
No, we tried to get the first available. And as I had to explain to some members of the public, I think everybody bases their schedule around what is out there. So I can understand what happened. And likely why you have what you have is because you guys chose to only have the one meeting in July originally. So that kind of left a hole for this to occur. But believe me, Dana scoured, and of course you get into July 4, you have gratifications, a lot of people out of town, and a lot of people are out of town turns out in June. So the best we could do is what we have, July. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
OK, thank you. Watershed... Two meetings ago we voted to raise watershed fees. I know it is expensive to do the required watershed studies, or basin studies, as Clay referred to them this morning. Will you, George, update me, or do it right now, update me even just through email on... Ben is not in the room is he? Ben Bartlett? I do not want to put them on the spot anyway. 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
I think we are scheduled for Thursday. If you like, I can have them... I can have them available for you Thursday. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
What I'm looking for is he said he would prioritize a list and do a couple, I am hoping that Whole Creek is on there, for the hosted chain of lakes. I would appreciate that you know... It sounds like it is a long process. 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
It is not a short study, because it is a vast area. I will have him, and he can go over what it typically takes. And we will do that. We also have a smaller study, because remember you have those big studies, and then we have sub basin areas. We are looking at solutions, because it is the southern tip of the hall Creek basin, which of course is the area around common Hill Farms. We met with the city of Deland, they have agreed to partner with us on that. 
 
And we have a firm that was already on a contract that we are able to use. So I think the scope has been written for that, I do not know if they have agreed on a price, but I think that is coming up quickly. Because I also communicated that back with some of the folks in that area last week. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
I think that is appropriate, and I'm glad to hear it, because the land is certainly approving a lot of development in that area. 
 
Naming rights for buildings came up, and it makes me wonder... Last year, or two years ago, we hired a company to look at naming rights. We have not heard back from them recently, but they were going to look at naming rights to bring money into the county. 
 
GEORGE RECKTENWALD: 
Right, we have a few things that have occurred. May be able to come to you... There were some complications to what they were proposing. So we will get back... There has been some interest in that. And again, we will continue to push that. You heard, even when you get into ballparks and things of that nature, if you get into a P3 or some sort of agreement, you could be getting sponsorship money for some of that as well. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Ya the ocean tech could be the Exxon Valdez. They need some public... Anyway, Don... He is not here. Did he leave completely? OK, maybe he can hear me in the back. Since Don has become the point man for motocross, I will give you my two cents from the public, I do not think I've talked to anybody who is against it, they are against location, they are afraid of liability, and they are against county spending $10 million, which you think is grossly incorrect. 
 
I think one thing that would bring everybody in the county together, because I think there is agreement that it would be a wonderful thing to have here, especially since we have the Speedway. Can the Speedway get involved? Do they have any land that they could put on it? Because the only way for us to not have liability for an accident is if it is private property run by a private operator. Is that not true?  
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
There was insurance though, they will ensure a burning building. There are a few insurance companies that will ensure motocross. So yes, you have to have insurance if we are going to do it. The problem with expecting a private business... And my love to answer? 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
You brought some people in here and one of them was a private guy who is doing it, and he sounded like he was doing it very successfully. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
There were two, there are a couple guys doing it, but in order to make it realistic, it has to be on basically county owned property. Because they just lost one in Wildwood, a privately owned facility, sold to a developer. That is the problem. All of these places we use to ride his kids, all of that vacant land, Tiger outlet, all these other places you could go and take your kid 30 years ago, me and my son, now have been sold off to developers. In these guys with 100 acre tracts of land, they are making $30 a pop, $40 a pop for motocross, when a big developer comes in and says I will give you $50,000 an acre. You don't ever have to worry about anything. They all sell. That is the problem. 
 
It is like trying to own and operate a Little League field, you will not make any money doing that, or running a soccer field. So this is just one of those things the county has to own, for to exist. In my opinion. And the insurance is there, there is plenty of insurance, no different than football fields. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
County attorney, does that keep you up at night? Liability for a motocross? Or do you agree that insurance would cover us? 
 
RUSS BROWN: 
There is also a statute on point that we can use County property that hold us harmless for this type of recreational activity. 
There are insurance exchanges that will cover the rates as well. So there are avenues out there to help with our sovereign immunity, to help us with our liability protection. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
I am sure this will all come up as we discussed this, as the proposal comes. But I'm concerned if we have parent sign and say they will not sue us, if that holds up. 
 
RUSS BROWN: 
There is a statute on point, we have sovereign immunity caps, we have a security exchange where we can go and get an affordable rate, so there are protections for a statute for this type of recreational activity, if it were on County land. 
 
DON DEMPSEY: 
Just to remind you, the speedways on county property. (Name)'s death, all the motorcycle racing out there, amateur, pro, all of that stuff is on county property already. To say this is inherently dangerous, when we have the Daytona Speedway, and all the serious events and injuries out there, I think we have to look at the big picture. 
 
JEFFREY S BROWER: 
Like I said, all of this is going to come up and be discussed. You were probably hearing the same thing from the public, that is the two issues, liability and not in my backyard. OK, I think that is all I had. So we will adjourn the meeting at 5:56 PM. 
 
[End of meeting]