Volusia County Council Meeting Tuesday, September 17, 2024 from 4:00 PM SPEAKER: Welcome to the Volusia County Council meeting. The meeting will begin in five minutes. (Music plays) SPEAKER: Welcome to the Volusia County Council meeting. The meeting will begin in two minutes. (Music plays) SPEAKER: OK, if everybody would find a seat we will get started in just one minute. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK, it is 4:02 PM, so we will get started. The rest of the Council is here, they will be right in. We will call the meeting to order for September 17, 2024 Volusia County Council meeting at 402. Just to give you an idea of how to start, and we always start this way, in just a minute we will have an invitation. Anybody who would like to stand for that, please are standing for the Pledge of Allegiance. If you are the part of the faith group would like to participate in the invocation, just sent any email to kgreen@volusia.org. This is Karissa Grain to your right. She will get you set up and you are welcome to take part in that. This morning, it is my pleasure to introduce to you Pastor Tommy Clayton with Grace Life Church in Deltona. Tommy? Come on down. And if everybody would like to stand? PASTOR TOMMY CLAYTON: Let's pray together. Almighty God, thank you for this day. Thank you for the opportunity for these men and these women to hear perspectives from the community to make these decisions. We know they have deep and far-reaching ramifications and implications, so we pray that wisdom would prevail here. That there would be humility, there would be honesty. They would stay united and would be just. We pray that you would bless them and their families. We thank you that we have a form of government where we can elect officials to represent us and hear us and make decisions on behalf of our county. The men and women and the families who raise concerns and bring them here, thank you for (indiscernible) that would be maintained today. That an agreeable discussion could be reached today. Thank you, Lord, for your goodness, your wisdom, your sovereignty, your grace. We pray for all of these things together, we pray in Christ's name, amen. (Pledge of Allegiance) JEFFREY S BROWER: OK, Carissa would you call the roll, please? SPEAKER: Mr Santiago? Mr Dempsey? Mr Johansson? Mr Kent? Mr Reinhart? Mr Robbins? Mr Brower? JEFFREY S BROWER: Here, and when Mr Santiago comes in, we will, at that time, let the record reflect that. We will start the meeting, as we always do, with public participation. We thank you, when you come in and talk to us, it is much appreciated. You are our employers so it is always good to hear from you and to hear what is on your mind. We will start with Patricia (Name). As she is walking down, when I call your name, make sure the microphone is close to you. The podium goes up and down. The microphones move. We want to hear what you say. We wanted to be recorded. You will have 3 minutes to talk about anything that you would like to talk about that affects our county. And there is a timer that will be on the monitor in front of you. Is it lit up, Patricia? SPEAKER: It says 357. JEFFREY S BROWER: Is on the big screen behind me. Go ahead, ma'am. SPEAKER: Good afternoon, my name is Patricia friends him and I love a quarter-mile from (unknown term) Road. This afternoon I submitted another letter for public record in opposition of the (unknown term) terminal. This will be added to the 4000 letters and signatures previously submitted. In July, a councilmember posted details on Facebook regarding a family project. He wrote, "it also teaches our kids that being broke is a choice. Being broke is not a choice. For over 30 years I worked as a teacher and school administrator in New York. I worked in Brooklyn, Manhattan and the Bronx. Most of the families I worked with were poor. They were born into poverty. But, unfortunately, it is very difficult to get out of the cycle of party. Being broke was not their choice." … Building up fuel terminal on wetlands will surely cost flooding. Just like the overbuilding of condos have caused flooding. This has caused loss of homes and businesses. Many people will go broke. Building a fuel terminal will cause noise pollution from the constant flow of trucks. Homeowners will be drastically affected by this. In order to protect our health, we will have to move. We will most likely not to be able to sell our homes at a profit, or many may need to abandon them. We will be forced to go broke. All of you have the power to help our communities prosper. I ask you again: stand up and fight! Stop the fuel terminal from being built. Stop all these condos from being built. Stop the flooding. Protect the wetlands, animals, trees, and, most importantly, protect the people of Volusia County. Thank you very much for your time. JEFFREY S BROWER: Paul Richardson, I don't know if I said this, but for safety reasons this council has been very generous that we don't require you to tell us your address to the public. We have it on paper. But if you would tell us what part of the county you are from so that your specific representative knows from where you are? SPEAKER: Good afternoon Council, a minute Paul of Deland. I want to talk about the clock here, I was appointed to the (indiscernible) Council one year ago, August 2023. Since this is the last council meeting we had, and I was sitting at Don's chair, thank you. This is the picture of the festival yards coming into Deland. And, this here is the ECHO Gallery opening. This is me with Councilman Reinhart. This is a smattering of young people explain their new pictures. Photography is not as recognized and hard as it used to be, but hopefully our house with the (unknown term) center is changing that. Here's a picture of me, and her name exceeds me for this moment, but she was the head of Our House, a very nice lady. Again, I have been going to these events, which is very nice, for almost a year now. This here is the opening at the opening of the Museum of Art in Deland. With Patty, who is also a very, very nice person. I have gotten to know her quite well over the course of my time on the Council. But, again, my original intent in coming to the County Council meeting was to expand our cultural heritage for July 2026 coming up. And, while I still continue to speak about that, doing this Cultural Council thing has been amazing and eye-opening and very (indiscernible). I hope to be on the Cultural Counsel for many many years to come, and thank you very very much. Especially to Don, thank you for appointing me. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you for your service. John Keister? SPEAKER: I am not really on the agenda, I didn't think I was going to get up until later. I have been trying to get a petition for my grievances. I am from District 3. I have endured 30 years of malicious prosecution's and false arrests and I'm trying to get an acknowledgment from the County Council on that. I say, I have spoke before my last time in jail where I was tortured and maimed, and that is just one of many locations. I have been maliciously prosecuted no less than 5 times in 30 years. I have been falsely arrested six times and falsely imprisoned six times. I am trying to get an up or down vote according to "beyond a reasonable doubt" and I welcome your challenge if you don't believe this is happened to me. I stepped up on a, "Yes, we acknowledge this happen." I want to get it on the agenda. I am also an expert in democracy and I would love to give an hour presentation sometime, to get it on the docket. And especially 50 days from the next election, on maybe next month's docket. I have an open challenge. I am an Independent registered voter. I would like to hear from the Republicans and the Democrats on what democracy is. I think it is important to our country, our county, I will state, our nation. And I think it is a debate that we need to have. I see one party is talking about the death of democracy and offending democracy, and (indiscernible) the DNC their convention. I believe the word was used under times, and I challenge everyone. Everybody thinks they know about democracy, and I am allowed to participate in that debate. The other issue is my own issue, and I would actually use some of that in teaching about democracy because it is about equal opportunity and fair outcome, the same thing that I say America is founded on. That we are the public, which is also designed so democracy can happen. It is democratic, it is not democracy. I have contacted 2 of you and I haven't heard back from you. I have tried to get on the agenda, I would like to hear from you Mr Johansson and Mr Robbins you are my counsel in the district. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you, sir, your time is up. Thomas Rutledge. SPEAKER: Thomas Rutledge, I often forget to find the staff and they are doing a lot of the work. I want to shed some light on some unnecessary notoriety to our community. I have heard about some rumblings, a move to have a rule eight vote by Republican committee to endorse a vase where both candidates of Republicans in good standing and possibly leave one of the vote altogether. It is my understanding that of all eight vote is never to be used to harm a Republican in good standing. The vote could belted Republican Brower, and is the presumptive winner in the general election. History shows us he will likely significantly widen his margin and could be viewed as intention to change the outcome and go against the will of the people. This would make a Republican causes and their (indiscernible) of integrity and fairness in an action whether it's over the heightened sensitivity, we could just look bad. Local Republicans could be viewed as hypocrites and it could down Republican causes going forward. In addition, I believe this committee had made a choice to previously (indiscernible) leave a Republican of the photodiode. Steve is a Republican in good standing who has a distinguished record of public service to our local community. (indiscernible) should be in a local voting guide put out by the voting committee and I am a lifelong Republican. These together could fill enough blood in the water for a national personal it up to bring unwanted attention to our community where it all seems unnecessary. We have seen where these things get ugly very quickly. I ask, as a decorated Marine and a formal local mayor, for anyone with in forward, anyone you can hear this microphone, to reach out to this committee and encourage them to avoid endorsing Eva candidate, in either of these races, and we considered the choice to leave Mr Miller of the voter guide if that is in fact business. Let the best candidate window, in each of these two vases. All of these candidates of the public and in good standing. And separately, I just want to encourage this body to act with kindness, kindness, respect and civility in all of your debates, and political discourse wherever it may occur. Our country and our county needs this example set now more than ever. Thank you. JEFFREY S. BROWER: John Nicholson? SPEAKER: Joe Nicholson, Daytona Beach. For the last 75 years I have never put a sign in my yard. Never advertise to I was going to vote for. It was a personal choice. That is the way it was brought up. You went into a booth and it was your choice and you kept that way. But it is not that way anymore. Everybody is announcing who they are voting for, six, eight, 10 months in advance. We do not know the individuals that are running. I am lucky, I have gone to over 5000 meetings and I have seen almost every person running for office. So I have a choice. People asked me who I am running for. Who I am running for. The two signs I put on, (indiscernible), and a candidate signed, I would put them in. If I had a sign for Jeff I would put it there and one for Matt and from (indiscernible). Because… I would not put up Don sign. No. I am not that bad. So.... DON DEMPSEY: Wow. SPEAKER: You also the paper today on Jeff, and again, that is getting to be par for the course. For you all with your, the previous counsel, four of them got targeted and they were asked to resign. (unknown name) good as to resign because she made a comment about a shooting we had in Daytona Beach. (indiscernible) was asked to resign because he had a lease on public property. (unknown name) was asked to resign, Fred was asked to resign because of a sermon he gave. Why did all of these people come in asking people to resign, I do not know. Three of you have now been targeted. David has been targeted, Danny got targeted for a comment he said about what caused (indiscernible) to decline. Now Jeff. So as far as I am concerned, he has got the Vita to speak whatever he wants to speak, it's a religious obligation that we have and it is the way he sees the world and it is his white. I remember two articles, in your consent agenda. I am thankful for the $3.2 million we are getting for the land purchase. I am not quite sure about the closed caption. Daytona beach has it. It does not make sense. The words do not match any English word. So if you are going to add it, make sure they are accurate. JEFFREY S BROWER: We will be here at the end. Barbara (unknown name)? SPEAKER: Good afternoon. And I thank the commissioners, for giving us the form to be able to address things to you. I was here two weeks ago, and participated in this public arena. And I am here again for the same purpose, and that is regarding the amendment that will be voted on November 5, on our ballot. So this is not only a consent to Volusia County, but it is a concern to all counties of Florida. Because it is a very vague and deceptive amendment. And particularly women need to understand exactly what this amendment is: four. The amendment is titled amendment to limit government interference with abortion. And this will be placed on the Florida Constitution if they get (indiscernible) it is very brief, very vague, no law shall prohibit, penalize, delay or restrict abortion before of likability. All were necessary, to protect the patient's health. It is determined by the patient healthcare provider. This proposed amendment actually gives a vital to… Before fetal viability, which is generally argued and 22 to 24 weeks, when necessary, to protect the patient's health as determined by the healthcare provider. The problem with the language of this proposed amendment is that it does not define anything, if you look at other amendments, if you play something on the Constitution it is obviously very important because it is going to be there for a long time. And this one, the language is vague, deliberately under deceptive, for the simple reason that it does not define healthcare providers since 1979, medical doctors have been required to do abortions and that would no longer be the case. It eliminate parental consent for minors. That means that would be the only surgery that a minor could actually do, without parental knowledge or consent. And the removal of abortion, health and safety regulations, without so be affected. Not including the life of the unborn, which would be taken, up to Beth. Now these are pretty extreme things that can occur. And I think that the citizens in all counties should be aware of this. But I reside in Volusia County, and so I am starting that year. This is the second time I am presenting it and I am hoping I can presented a solution. -- JEFFREY S BROWER: Your time is up. It goes by very quickly. Jean Bailey? SPEAKER: Hello, my name is Jean Bailey and I have been coming since April and talking about the Narcan vending machines I would like to have in Volusia County. I have put up a couple of them. I wanted to give you a status on the one I just put up the last month, it is already had 22 boxes dispensed. I am getting letters of support and Frank use from the community, people that if you, people that need it, people that know it is there. It was a give ago this month that my son passed. So, I am just waiting, and I guess I have been pushed out to next month again, but that is OK. I will keep coming, and keep reminding you I am here, letting you know that I am still out here working on it, I am getting the machines up, I have five machines, I have to up, I have one ready to go. I am not quite ready where I am going to put it yet but it is ready to go. I have been working with Doctor Brad and he has been coming up with suggestions and he has been helping me to find some solutions that would be best for the community and for the County, and so I just wanted to let you know that I am still here and I am still working at it. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. And that and the public participation for this part of the meeting. SPEAKER: Mr Balbir, I would like to let the record know that Mr Santiago joined at 4:25PM. JEFFREY S BROWER: So we have a full capsule. Is the emotion to approve the agenda as written? SPEAKER: Emotion. SPEAKER: Second. JEFFREY S BROWER: We have a motion by Councilman Kent and a second by Huntsman Johansen. Comment from come to the bobbins? -- That he DANNY ROBINS: I will wait for the consent. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK, people go into the next item, the next item if the consent agenda. Does anybody have an item they would like to pull for a comment or a vote? DANNY ROBINS: L4. SPEAKER: I will make a motion to approve the consent agenda. Jeff JAKE JOHANSSON: I second JEFFREY S BROWER: We have a motion and a second. Any of the discussion? Any discussion? Then all in favour say I. Any opposed? Good job George. Good job George. And we have a request for a comment from Councilman Robbins on L. Danny DANNY ROBINS: Thank you chair. Now, this is an initiative that was put forward to require some a coverage down in Southeast Volusia. I would just like to get to Brad to highlight a little bit of the program. And what this project brings to us as a county. And conservation, environmental protection in the Indian River basin. SPEAKER: Bladder, community services Director. This was initially approved for purchase by this counsel and at that time I shared that the Florida forever program would reimburse us for the largest parcel at a little over 2000 acres. So, this is the agreement for Florida forever to reimburse us but this is a strategic acquisition in terms of water quality and quantity. The number one, it provides filters, for the (indiscernible) of the water that is running off and flowing self into the Indian River Lagoon. It also provides imported floodplain protection in terms of water quantity. So disconnect with a large 1800 acre piece that is owned by the water management district that really will the self as protection of that floodplain, JEFFREY S BROWER: Will you take a question? Councilman Santiago. DAVID SANTIAGO: Could you elaborate more on that floodplain and how it helps? What you mean by how it can help direct? BRAD BURBAUGH: If you look at all of our acquisitions, we take a strategic approach to acquisitions. We are not just looking at the recreational component, we are looking at other environmental benefits. What this means is if we provided basin – and that is essentially what this is, between 95 and silver palm (unknown term) Park with for it to float east to west and north to south into the lagoon, that is water that is not being… DAVID SANTIAGO: Which say that this is (indiscernible)? BRAD BURBAUGH: Absolutely. DAVID SANTIAGO: … BRAD BURBAUGH: Absolutely.… So if we can capture it south of County where it closed north to where the population center is certainly will provide better benefits to our residents. DAVID SANTIAGO: I hate to repeat, but I want to make sure it is clear. On our target list is 2500 acres to help with this water discharge area? BRAD BURBAUGH: Yes and we have applied for another Florida (indiscernible) grant to help us with that. DAVID SANTIAGO: I just wanted to know what you are doing to help with the flooding? JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman Reinhart? MATT REINHART: Thank you, sir. How many other properties are on that list that would help for potential purchase? Is it like, six? BRAD BURBAUGH: … Six purchase offers included, that we are waiting for feedback from the owners and 8 properties under appraisal. MATT REINHART: Can I get the information with respect to the floodplain on those future properties, please? JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman Robins. DANNY ROBINS: I just wanted to highlight the great work that you and your team are working for this initiative. We are listening and this is an all hands on deck approach, countywide. I can only imagine my colleagues feel this as well, I want to say thank you for this and we appreciate your hard work. BRAD BURBAUGH: Again, I want to say it is a team effort. I think there is a balance with this green structure -- infrastructure, and also the great infrastructure, which is storm infrastructure. Balancing those is (indiscernible) to our taxpayers. TROY KENT: Mr Burbaugh did you say (unknown term)? BRAD BURBAUGH: Are you talking about the (indiscernible) piece I mentioned? Is 5000 acres. It is a very large parcel. We are looking at (Name) to be a partner. We are moving back on a simultaneous track. The team has applied for a (unknown term) Florida grant as well. Typically, on these projects we have multiple pathways that we are working to bring the property in the public ownership and that initial investment. TROY KENT: OK. George, who made the final decision to hire this guy. Seriously, I want to know who made the final decision. Take yourself out to lunch, George. I want to tell you what, you are a bright worker, you are… You are helping with the Narcan dispensers, you are compassionate, you are everything that we like to have in Directors and people who are helping to make the decisions publicly. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Just to close on that, how is your back feeling from all the pats? You deserve it. You deserve it. BRAD BURBAUGH: My mom used to say, "Don't break your wrist patting itself on the back." (Laughs) JEFFREY S BROWER: This is why it is so important to me. I think this Volusia Forever was voted on by taxpayers who voted to raise their own taxes by 72%. And, budget season, we always want to reduce the millage rate. In budget season, it is always to zero Volusia out or whatever, but you have come up here to argue against the funding. (?) It always looks like we have more money than we have project for, but then we get a huge project like this. That is going to help out, I hope. Thank you for protecting the funding and for all your hard work bringing in really good projects to Volusia County. This is good news! Thank you very much. And I will see if anyone else wants to pat you on the back. BRAD BURBAUGH: Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK! And, as Ryan Ossowski approaches, item 3 of resolution offering and issuance of not to exceed $10 million. I am going to let you fill all that in. SPEAKER: Good evening, Counsel. Ryan Ossowski, Chief (Name). Can you go to the next slide? And the next one? Before you is a financing arrangement for the project summarized here that has been in development for a while. The first part of developing the system of new cells for the landfill is to develop the stormwater system for that that of cells. The stormwater system is for the 271 acres that it is going to cover. It is going to enable over 100 years of landfill capacity. The Council previously approved the project. It is funded $50 million in the coronavirus relief from ARPA.… What is before you is the steps to enable it to occur. There are more steps. Behind me, I had Jake (Name) who is from… How to do that, I am also joined by Tanner Atkinson who is from (Name), and also (Name) who is with me working for the past two months and will continue for another month to make all of this occur what is proposed in the other resolutions and what is in the formal statement is for a publicly issued bond. It has been issued for over a decade at this point. It is pretty sweet and privately place ? so instead of going to the public, it would be privately placed. … From legally available non-out Florham revenues to hopefully reduce interest costs by being able to take advantage of our general credit rating, as opposed to the credit rating of the (unknown term) system. However, it has (indiscernible) funds, the security would be larger than that and that's what help reduce interest rates. Whatever underwriter ends up proposing the lowest true interest cost will be selected. The bonds will be rated by S&P global ratings. We had a bond rating on Friday and we expected to be issued on Thursday. Like I mentioned, the professionals are behind me, so if you have any questions from the, otherwise I am here for questions. JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman Santiago with questions. DAVID SANTIAGO: Thank you, Councilman. Do you have a (indiscernible) rating for them? SPEAKER: I do not. DAVID SANTIAGO: Why not? JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman Reinhart MATT REINHART: What is already been in the past? SPEAKER: I think we had a AA rating, but I don't remember what the something part was. (Multiple speakers) SPEAKER: The actual bond they were reading was only secured by the tourist development tax so that was an A+ rating as opposed to a AA. But they also start with your implied rating and then they do sit down being as it is related to just the (unknown term). That is about three or four years old. MATT REINHART: I was going to say you mentioned that for three years we have been outstanding debt free for bonds. SPEAKER: For publicly issued bonds. Our largest debt issuance, they are all with banks, but the largest is on the ocean center (indiscernible) tax. JEFFREY S BROWER: Any other questions? I will open it up for comment and debate. Councilman Santiago? DAVID SANTIAGO: Thank you Mr Chair. I just want to make some comments to our finance team, good work. I think we know our position well from the work you have done. Also, from our previous County Council's and leadership team that were visionaries. And I know we are talking about a landfill here, but their vision of what they had seen in the future and the potential for Volusia County and how they designed that in the land and the permits they required at received was revolutionary and had saved Volusia County residents a ton of money is at the steps they took years back. I don't know who was on the Council then, but shout out to you whether you are alive or not, good job on that. JEFFREY S BROWER: Anyone else? Troy Kent. TROY KENT: Yes, just briefly, can you tell us how long it will take for us to pay this back? In the total we will pay during that time? SPEAKER: It is structured for a 20 year repayment period. This project will serve the residents for over 100 years, that is why we structured it a little bit longer than 10 years short payment or something to that. The future cell would be (unknown term) years,… A general concept is to line up the life of the project along with the bonds. That is why we selected a longer payment than 20 years. This of course includes interest. I think it was around $15 million. TROY KENT: 18 million? So, 10 million and then over 20 years we will pay back 15 million? And we are going to get $150,000 upfront, right? By the way, millionaires out there, this is how the rich continued to stay rich. Loan out $10 million and then expect $15 million back. SPEAKER: I will say that we expect the industry to be around 4%, just for those who are tracking. Also, through consultation with a financial advisor we have asked for an eight-year call period. So if rates change, we can finance down to a two or 2 1/2%. Those interest costs will also go down. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. Do not go away. Councilman Santiago, before you make a motion, I will ask if you will offer your fellow councilman Matt Reinhart to ask another question? MATT REINHART: The bond rating, that obviously helps that you kept it at 4% and can go down? How long — just for the record – the ocean center, how long was that one for? 30 years. OK and how close are we to --? SPEAKER: 2026. MATT REINHART: Basically more or the same? SPEAKER: They refinanced when interest rates were lower. Interest rates are a little bit higher right now. That is why I mentioned the eight year refunding period. We considered a five-year refunding period, because maybe rates would be lower than that, but we also would be expected to take more than that today, if you have the bond orders for longer period of time. (?) MATT REINHART: OK, thank you very much, appreciated. JEFFREY S BROWER: And that is why we are glad you are here, Ryan. DAVID SANTIAGO: Motion to approve. JEFFREY S BROWER: Seconded by Reinhard. Any other questions or comments? TROY KENT: Councilmen, I am having a hard time with the 20 year timeline. That's too rich for my blood. JEFFREY S BROWER: Karissa will you call the role? KARISSA GREEN: (Roll Call) JEFFREY S BROWER: Yes, so the motion is approved 6:1. OK, I 4 is a fee schedule update. Aaron will present that. SPEAKER: What we have beside you is the advance fee schedule. We took some of the fees off of the previous presentation, we will look at those uncovered more closely and but no matter the future date. So what we have before you is if we differ the department that we would like you to look at fees at. Failure services is for the Fargo training Centre. That is typically a transition between municipality and the county for use of our training centres. And then, there is, again no, you see the list of costs there. I will not go over them all. And then we have solid waste which kind of ties to what we approved in the last item. This is a request for up to an annual CPS plus one for garbage and trash connection. This would not take effect if approved today up to October 21 of 2025, and it would give the garbage haulers the chance to plan for that. And then we have the Ocen Center fees. They are not listed on the presentation, but they were attached to the item, basically. We have an existing model where we have the Avina mental fee plus the associated front of house fees. This kind of changes it to a flat fee for the Avina Vento fee plus the front of house labour cost all-inclusive. It does unlined the Ocen Center with the broad industry trend, and then we have the full schedule attached. And then then Flanders, Director Flanders does have the ability to negotiate on that as well. So we are here to discuss any credit you might have. Matt MATT REINHART: I have had the opportunity, first off, the fire services, they are imported. Tremendously important. All of them are important. I have had the chance to discuss a little bit more with Mrs Flanders with respect to the Ocen Center, she does a tremendous job and I have the utmost respect and trust that you will manage it well and it is a broad industry trend. I like those words. And in comparison to some of the other areas, we want big names. Mr Kent has pointed out before and we have to be competitive, there are a lot of info talked issues that have to be expressed. And those things cost money. And if the fact that she has the ability to negotiate those fees is imported as well. And again, I have that faith in her being able to do that. The big yes on this, thank you. SPEAKER: Just a couple of quick questions for me. So I think you answered my question, who is being charged, it is all the minister parity. Is it almond this aperitif of involution or do you have any outside people? SPEAKER: I believe we have (indiscernible) outside of Volusia as well. SPEAKER: He is coming down to our omen disabilities, are they aware of that change it? SPEAKER: None of these changes are immediately going to impact the minister polities. We still have to say the training schedule, every year we do training at the training schedule, Ald. disabilities come and train with us and there was also a Westside contingency weather is a training day out there. So this will not affect anything that we have in place. This is just to bring the fees up to what covered fees are across the state, and match at the equal fees, but if there is any over and above training that we are not already currently ending. So this is not good to change anything we have currently done for the last two of the years. SPEAKER: Great. You have got a great facility, and I am not surprised of people want to use it. SPEAKER: In the last couple of years, we have seen more and more training with all the mess apologies, all of us getting together. And getting the ISO training out of the way. SPEAKER: Thank you very much. So the last question is probably answered as well, it has something to do with the Ocean Center. I think the Director is here. And, she might not to come up, but there was one huge change, and I think you just cleaned it up for me. In the arena, it went from 4000 to 35,000. I do not want to shut down the Ocean Center. I know that Director Flanders does not I for. Is that the one that you are going to negotiate? SPEAKER: When you look at the 4000 to 35,000 you looking at Wever combine those fees. So typically, no, when somebody comes in they pay event and then they pay fees that would include the front of house, which is to ticket takers, box office, acuity, ground manager, and EMS staff. So we are combining all of that into one fee. So we look at the history and the average of what we are spending on those power, and apply that to an (indiscernible) type of event and came up, just combining those fees. So there are two drivers in that number. We just discussed the labour covered is no change in the label. There is a change in the events. We are at $0.43 per capita per the seat right this minute. We did a compilation set of about 10 of Venus, and performing arts centres in and around the area in Florida. And up into Georgia. And we found that at $0.43, the Peabody is right at $1.40 fee. And then the next one, even closer, with three dollars. Most people are at $5 or $7 the we are undervalued. So we are proud of what we have it we should price it accordingly. So we are proposing that we go up to $1.50, which is disclosed what the Peabody does. And again having the opportunity, and the… Given the go-ahead from George and Susanne to say yes, negotiate when you D2, people definitely look at that will be a sitting across the table from (indiscernible). All of our deals are different will be get into the entertainment side of the house and we plan to give that to negotiate labour. It is pretty fixed, that is not a lot we can do that but we will have them play in the rental rate. SPEAKER: When are you going to announce about October. SPEAKER: It has been announced. Have you not heard about it yet? SPEAKER: I have heard about it on the internet, but in this meeting I have not heard about it. And that was one of the things that came to mind. I did not want to steal your funder but you have landed one of my favourite bands from the 70s, have no clues. I do not know if Troy has ever heard of them. It is not the Red Hot Chili Peppers. But, the whole event is going to be so good for Volusia County. So well done. TROY KENT: Chief King, could you come down for just a minute. When is the last time that the county had suggested it's rates to rent our facilities? SPEAKER: A lot of these when you look at them they are a pretty decent increase. I am not going to say no because I think they are right. It is needed, it is appropriate, it should happen. But, these incremental increases should be happening after the year, every two years, at a minimum. -- GEORGE RECKTENWALD: … This is why we are seeing them at the last meeting you are seeing them here.… TROY KENT: Mr Van Kleek? Help them do that. My father said that if you give it away for free, everyone will take it. I am pleased we are getting there. And the splendors, there is more meat on that bone that we need to attack. Thanks. JEFFREY S BROWER: Also Don Dempsey. DON DEMPSEY: Ms Flanders, are you still with us? I'm sorry (Laughs). Maybe George can answer this for me, before I make you walk down here. For the arena house rental, are we still able to have the option of a flat fee or go back to the profit-sharing deal of 4000+ percentage of the (unknown term) office? GEORGE RECKTENWALD: That will be up to Lynn. In terms of what she said, we look at the various events. Some events have a lot of food and beverage, therefore it might be more valuable to us we are bringing in that food and beverage. Of course, when we do conventions, we are looking at how many room nights are they in the community? Certainly a much more valuable piece of business that maybe one that does not do that. So those are all the things that they will be looking into and working with the people who want to come in. So, again, it will depend a lot on what they think they are going to generate, what kind of parking fees we are going to have. That all goes into the mix. She will have that ability to negotiate that. DON DEMPSEY: So this is not set in stone, the 35,000? We are going to be able to come down not only on the price that on the way we collect money either through a straight lease for profit sharing? SPEAKER: Yes. We will lean toward the flat fee and work backwards when we start to negotiate that. DON DEMPSEY: Summer events for progress couple of days of setup and breakdown, depending on what the event is. So that 4000 quickly becomes $12-$16,000. So, it is not as big a jump as you think because most events are a multiple day event. And what she is saying is $35,000 per event. So again, that depends on again, what the type and makeup of the event is. Some come right in and they are gone the next day, summer with us for several days. DAVID SANTIAGO: I know it is probably going to draw more people if you do not given the option to (indiscernible) money. A lot of them would rather risk 4000 at a percentage of the box often 35,000 at some event, and something happens when they walk away with a huge loss. I think a lot of potential promoters would much rather have profit-sharing and loss sharing with the county, as opposed to all of this upfront money. Because there is a lot more at risk for them. So I would just hope that we are not trying to scare people off of the lower amount with profit-sharing, as opposed to just the flat (indiscernible). Because I think we will get a lot more promoters approaching us if we give them the option of evil. So thank you. There was: thank you, Councilman Robbins, are we continuing questions? DANNY ROBINS: Very quickly, thank you for putting this together. Some years ago, on the past counsel, we changed the tipping fees because they weren't changed for about 20 years. And my memory is still there, a little bit, but, from what I have a cold, we did it in preparation for these new cells as well. Do we have an idea of what tipping fees were, what we've raised them to, the time period and the egg and no, the mathematics in between? I am sorry, I would ask you this in a staff meeting… But it just dawned on me, I just do not want to charge people… SPEAKER: … What changed on that analysis and those tipping fees were done is really the hyperinflation that we have seen these products go up in price. This is really been an effort to avoid having to do large increases, like we talked about because we haven't done them for 20 years, and do those increases incrementally. I let Regina handle the (Away from mic). SPEAKER: Last time we name raised the tip fees, we did at 27 of time. And with the hyperinflation, we are proposing the CPI increase to do small, incremental increases each year to keep up with rising cost and inflation. SPEAKER: And what we have seen is both seminal and Orange counties, since we have raised hours from 30 to 37 (?) I think we are higher than now. MATT REINHART: Do we know how much that three dollars per ton would bring in? SPEAKER: I will let her answer that. TROY KENT: Too soon to say, go A ton of money!" (Laughter) SPEAKER: Basically, when we did the increase in 2022, what you have seen is a $5 million annual increase earning. MATT REINHART: OK. And where is it going to go from here?… MATT REINHART: Counsel,… I don't want to charge people to death. JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman Robins, will you hold it for just a second until your dumb questions and then I will let you start debates? OK. TROY KENT: Moved to approve pay fee schedule. JEFFREY S BROWER: Jake Johansson for debate. JAKE JOHANSSON: We just mentioned incremental changes once again and my colleague mentioned not making a big jump in here we are trying to do that a little bit. I think it is important to keep our taxes and fees down, but we are responsible for paying our bills. And, if we keep it down at the rate that we can support to do the business we are supposed to do, then all we are doing is hiding the problem for a few years. If this cost needs to be borne to get up to speed and get up to level with the cost of doing business versus what we pay for it, I support it. And there is also a little bit of guesswork and not, as well. We do not know how I the inflation rate is going to go. We do not know if it is going to decrease this year. So we forgot to play the game. If we can squeeze it out at the current rate, that's great but it doesn't sound like we can. At this point, unless we hear some other data, I am inclined to support it. JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman Robins. MATT REINHART: Thank you, and I do agree with some of what you are saying. I do see that 20 year Where there was hyperinflation there as well. We have a two year gap now. And I understand the thought process between incremental increases, I would just like to see it a little bit — I know we have had fees go for 20 years and we were able to see that go further. I would like to see it go further than two years. That is just a one dollar increase, if I understood that correctly? That is bringing in some money. But, I just think it is a little too close and I would like to see it stay where it is at 2024 we make another jump. JEFFREY S BROWER: County Manager George Recktenwald. GEORGE RECKTENWALD: I just have to point out again, we just talked about the fact that we are supposed to do this in an incremental manner and this is a three year. This doesn't go into effect for another year. We are getting everybody more than one year notice. On top of that, you know you are embarking on one of the largest expansions we are going to have. You are talking about building a 100-year cell and there is going to be more, too. Not just what you already approved. As he said he will be back tomorrow more money once we put in that giant storm system. Then we have to get into the cells, themselves. It is expensive to run a class I solid waste, household garbage/solid waste system. There is a lot of science to it and it is a big project. We're just trying to do the responsible thing. Again, even with this increase, we will be less than our neighbors all around us. Everybody around us is charging more in tipping fees which is really a credit to the staff and the people who were able to make it go for quite a long time. I think that is been a great benefit. It is always our goal to continue to provide those services at the lowest rate possible. But again, when you are talking about this, too, to the average person, we are talking about per ton. Most people only put in a few pounds of garbage. This is something, for the average person, it has to be an increase eventually to work through the system to them as the consumer, it should be very minor compared to what we are talking about here with this amount of tonnage. SPEAKER: I was just consulting with Regina. The $500 number were two things: it was a pay increase and then the tonnage to the storm. (?) The budget for the next is $28 million divided by $37 million (?). The three dollar increase is about $2.3 million per year. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK, thank you. I do not see any other comments, so I will call for the vote. Would you call role, please? KARISSA GREEN: Is to Santiago? Mr Dempsey? Yes. Mr Johansen? Yes. Mr Kent? Yes. Mr Reinhart? Yes. Mr Robbins? Yes. Mr Brower? Yes. JEFFREY S BROWER: And the fee schedule update is approved unanimously. And that brings us to item 5, contract with P and S paving for the boulevards widening. TADD KASBEER: This is the contract with P and S paving Inc. for the Williamson Boulevard widening from Strickland Range Road to Hand Avenue. MATT REINHART: When will that project began? TADD KASBEER: It will begin tonight. MATT REINHART: That runs into the whitening there now, right? TADD KASBEER: Are you talking about (indiscernible)? MATT REINHART: I make a motion to approve. DAVID SANTIAGO: Second. JEFFREY S BROWER: We have a motion to approve P and S Paving by Matt Reinhart and the second was David Santiago. I just have a couple of quick questions. I am for this, but, I think (Laughs). Can we, can you put the schedule of the three bids, is it possible to get that up here? Who was on the committee to look at the bids and approve them? Were you on it? TADD KASBEER: Yes, sir. When it comes in, because this is a low bid project, I look at it, my project manager and then the consulting project manager and the (unknown term) looks at it. JEFFREY S BROWER: Are you required to just take the low bid? TADD KASBEER: Is what we selected for this means a selection, yes sir. JEFFREY S BROWER: I am just wondering and looking at the three others: $783,000 difference in Halifax Paving, Inc. In every other section they were lower. They are both good companies, P and as and Halifax are both good companies. It held that see something? Believing anything on the table that affect safety or materials that Halifax was a little more in that section, but lower everywhere else? TADD KASBEER: Just as an explanation of the sections are, section 01 is the road construction contract. That is the actual widening portion of it. Section 2, there is Halifax Health emergency room going and in the southeast of the intersection at (unknown term) and Strickland. They are piggybacking onto that.… At the same time we are both constructing in the area, so they are responsible for that amount. As far as the county is concerned, that alone is unimportant. That is somebody else's requirement. Sections 3 both a and B and section 4… Section 3B for beach utility and section 4 before (indiscernible). We've the contract are. They generally get a slightly better price overall. Not in this case, but as far as the county is ultimately concerned, we go by what is best for us we actually looked just for this section 1 which is the only part we are responsible for. The other numbers, it is really up to the developer or the utility companies whether they do the work. Under this contract, they can pull out or do the work separately, or (indiscernible). All we value it at is the 8.7 versus the 9.5. We did take a look at these and we didn't see anything out of line with P and S's numbers. There (indiscernible), the piping numbers, the loose material, we look at that to see if there was anything unusual to see if they had skipped something. If they didn't fill and a cost for type of asphalt that we need to have, that would raise a red flag. They were a really good low number compared to everybody else. In that case, we would contact them to see if it was a (indiscernible) number or that they had intentionally done that. We always give them the option to pull out if it is something unusual. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. Section 1 is important so I needed to ask. Thank you for the explanation. We have a motion to approve by Matt Reinhart, seconded by David Santiago. Are there any other comments? All in favor say aye. It is passed unanimously from 7: 0. Section 6 is except and ratify the Federal Aviation Administration grant project. CYRUS CALLUM: Thank you, Cyrus Callum. This is to accept and ratify the Federal Aviation Administration grant and this is for the construction of runway 5 (?).… Is to make it safe and this is from our annual safety from inspectors. This is in the amount of (unknown term) dollars. We have already covered our 5% in the state has already covered their 5%. JEFFREY S BROWER: Excellent stop Councilman Reinhart. MATT REINHART: Thank you, I love seeing the word (indiscernible). JEFFREY S BROWER: All those in favor, say, "Aye". any opposed? Motion carries 7:0. Which brings us to item 7:0, a budget resolution raising imposition of special assessments against nonpublic hospitals. SPEAKER: Good evening again, items seven and eight are actually related. If you recall, this is deferred year of this program, that we are implemented. These items are both related to the hospital (indiscernible) program, and this is a program that was brought to us by a consulting group that was working on behalf of the hospital. The hospital is what this program because what it allows them to do is take advantage of some federal Medicaid funding. So by levying this special assessment on these hospital properties, we collect $47 million roughly that we can remitted to the state. The state uses that $47 million as the state match in the required state Chevron for Medicaid. And they are able to draw down the 60% Federal share, but those two pieces back together and through some form of funding distribution formula it makes it back to the applicable hospital. It is not 11 but it is definitely a program that is beneficiary to the hospital. It works similar to item 9 which is is our (indiscernible) program, I will reserve comments for that until we get there, but item 7 and eight above the imposition and the budget resolution to provide the revenue and expenditure of poverty. That item 8 is the agreement with the states to agree to permit the $47 million to that to make the program work. JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman Santiago? DAVID SANTIAGO: How we make a motion to just approve them together? SPEAKER: Number seven had to be put in the paper, so I do not believe so. JEFFREY S BROWER: A motion by Councilman Santiago and a second by Councilor Johansson. Any other questions or comments? Then all in favour of approving the budget resolution, please say I. Any opposed? That is approved 7:0. Which takes us to item 8. The letter of agreement. Go ahead. SPEAKER: Eight some eight is the expenditure piece and what I just talked about. JEFFREY S BROWER: It didn't change since item 7?: MATT REINHART: Approved. DAVID SANTIAGO: Second. JEFFREY S BROWER: Has been a heart makes a motion to approve, Santiago is second. All in favour say I? Motion past 7:0. SPEAKER: Item 9 is very similar to items seven and eight. With seven we are levying the tax on the hospitals. With eight and nine we are contributing federal fund revenue. So we sent out the 40% from the federal fund and we get back the 40% plus the 100%, the federal 60%, savvy, to make 100%, so the total revenue we will get back is 5.5 million for a net revenue of 3.2 million. This will be the 50th we have implemented this program, and this program has been the reason that the general fund contribution to EMS is actually not changed in… This budget that we are about to hear, in five years. JEFFREY S BROWER: Katzman Rinehart? Matt MATT REINHART: Motion to approve. JAKE JOHANSSON: Second. JEFFREY S BROWER: We have a motion and a second. Any questions? Any debate? All in favour say I? Any opposed? That motion carried 7:0. Your work is done here. That brings us to item 10, the fiscal year 2024/25 advertising authority budget. (unknown name) is going to pick this up. SPEAKER: I am not (indiscernible), the Executive Director for the tour the beach. Today we are here to say that we hold you, we had your request, and we have moved 1/4 of $1 million from Albert fund balance into the airlift support line item. So that is now $400,000. So we, Southeast Volusia and West Volusia now here to ask for budget approval. JEFFREY S BROWER: Ketura DAVID SANTIAGO: I will wait to see if my colleagues have any questions. I do not. JEFFREY S BROWER: Does anybody have any questions? There being no questions, we can make a motion. Motion to approve is made by Matt Rinehart. SPEAKER: I will second it with an amendment if the motion or can hear me out. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK. SPEAKER: I will second it and then I will amended. DAVID SANTIAGO: Festival and what a safe IQ, to your team and your colleagues and all the other board. And you know, if you have figured me out, I like to have a little fun at the same time but there is one person to blame for this change and that is Cyprus. This is where we are at today because he had a homeland. And it is important for everyone to know that the reason for the last-minute changes, because I know there was a lot of discussion about how this came across suddenly, he had a long a van and was able to deliver what nobody has been able to do in the past for this airport. Insofar as the routes we have been able to obtain. I wanted people outside the chambers and internally to know that is what sparked at least for my purposes the dialogue and the insight saying maybe we ought to invest more into this airport. So it was never form an adversarial approach, or whatever comments were made otherwise. But it was because that homeland, we needed to make sure that all hands were on deck. I understand there was a lot of discussion that happened amongst several parties regarding the commitment to the airport, and I know Troy, you were not here so I will just recap that. The dialogue surrounded around the million dollars that we had set aside for the airport from the county general fund. And I had made the comment and there was consensus that we needed to have our tourism authorities pony up some more money to make sure that those destinations are successful. Since we have invested, everybody should be in because everybody is going to benefit at the end of the day. So that is why today we are at this point. During this time, Mr chair and colleagues, I have had the opportunity to learn about some historical stuff that we have done regarding this tourism board. And I want to propose an amendment, to the approval of this, that I think there is precedent for. And I think all parties can live with. I will read it Mr chair, because it is in everyone. So, my amendment would be as a precondition to the approval of the budget for fiscal year 24/25, and for the purposes of marketing and advertising tourism in the Halifax Southeast Volusia, West Volusia ever yes, and affects every Housing Authority, Southeast Volusia authority Housing Authority and the West Volusia advertising Authority, shall budget and allocate the sums of individually $400,000, $100,000 and $20,000. As a proposed in the current budget approval. This will be for an airport marketing fund which will provide flights to the Daytona Beach International Airport, each Authority shall reimburse quarterly amounts, actually expended for such advertisements and promotions of said air services, based on requests provided by the airport. That is my amendment, depending put some more context in that it is following a model that we currently have with the Ocen Center, with the tourism money that the Ocen Center does marketing accordingly, and then the sent the invoices over to the authorities and they reimburse it back and pay for it. So what this does it allows very closely and still with oversight from the boards, because they currently have some insight into how the money is being spent, but it allows assignors to work with the airline closely to do the marketing for these particular destinations that we want to make sure people are flagging from, into Daytona. So there is precedent for this, and I think it gives us the tools and the board are already accustomed to working in this particular type of scenario. So before the lengthy explanation but I did want to make a note of the background where I think we were at today. And I think all parties to deal with this. JEFFREY S BROWER: That is the longest amendment I have ever heard. Donna, did you want to speak to the main motion of the amendment? DON DEMPSEY: What was the first thing that you said? (Laughter) DON DEMPSEY: USA and this is a minimum, not a? I just want to make sure, Daytona just celebrated an anniversary? So we are going to be spending equally not only with the startup airlines but also the legacy that have been there for quite a while. SPEAKER: We are just starting to have those conversations with your team. This is a surprise to me. This is a very big surprise to me. The board is not under David's understanding that this is something going forward. I now understand exactly where you are going. We, in good faith, came back with what we thought you needed us to do for this fiscal year. Are you saying that… What are you saying, David? DAVID SANTIAGO: Mr chair… SPEAKER: I do have two board members here as well. One of them would be happy to talk on the microphone. DAVID SANTIAGO: Can I respond first? I think the nexus of this, since our last meeting, had to do with watching the public meetings that occurred for your board, and the other board. So I did have the opportunity to review the meetings that occurred, afterwards. And though I will say, it did seem that there was… I did not want to have to go there but I will… It did seem like there was some… I have got to find the right words, resentment from some members in there that… I will paraphrase but I left with the impression of "How dare they tell us how to spend our money. And I think a… I fit a forgetting, if that makes sense, of that board, all of these boats serve at our pleasure because we each appoint folks in that do those jobs. And when I learned of the President already of having this type of program, like we have at the Ocen Center, I felt, doing some luminary research we were kind of in a similar place where there was a little bit of… Maybe some of you want to give a little bit more insight on that but there was some slight attention on how spending money was going to occur in the Council created that resolution which I have a copy of here. Because a research. It is a program that I have found seems to be working quite well to promote the Ocen Center. So I felt that this would shelter the counsellor, and show that those funds are being specifically sent to promote the airports. And the direct valves coming into Daytona Beach. And then our last point, what drove me to propose this to the Council was in the commentary that I read in the paper, including what I have seen in the video, it was said… Along the lines that we are already spending an additional 307 million. SPEAKER: $340,000. Being spent in the same market. The we are marketing in those destinations. Are you saying that we should just grant it with the airport, and continue doing what we are doing? Or are you saying that you need us to give the airlines $400,000? What are you saying? DAVID SANTIAGO: We had some talk from (indiscernible), can you let him train in first? GEORGE RECKTENWALD: I had a discussion with (unknown name), and the idea, actually she came up with the idea as well, of we would use a a model similar to what we have at the Ocean Center. So you were right on when you were saying that. I think we overshot a little bit with some of the discussion of the specifics. I figured that they are just now talking about how exactly it would go, after it would be something that (unknown name) would meet with the airlines, and they would agree on some kind of marketing plan that they are expecting, and as far as we would probably find the money, out of our economic development. In seeking reimbursement back. Like we do the Ocen Center. I think we do it three or four times a year, (indiscernible). So that is the setup that we have been talking about. For fiscal year 24/25, that is all that we have talked about. So far. Are you saying that in order to get our budget approved in the future, that this needs to be…? Only one year. OK. We are already talking about that. I felt… You scared me there. (Laughter) SPEAKER: I was not sure where you were going that. We have never budgeted for airline support. Often we haven't budgeted it, but we are working process. We do not have that just yet, but yes, I am looking at that same model that could work. I am trying to make three different entities very happy right now. So yes, we are working to do that. But if I could remind you that this is an authority, not an advisory committee. Think Volusia County Council has been an astounding job of appointing this 11 member board that is very involved in his budget, every bit of it. They approve those dollars as if they were their very own. So there is accountability, like you wouldn't believe. So that is where I am trying to get, and you heard them, they are very passionate! The Board is -- DAVID SANTIAGO: Might say a little too passionate in their arguing. SPEAKER: I think that is the kind of passion you want when you're budgeting your dollars. DAVID SANTIAGO: There was some commentary that were direct attacks on members of this board.… I think some of it pointed to me because I brought up the subject. It was a commentary about political tactic. I didn't want to put you on the spot. But it was something along the lines of that, and whoever said it was foolish because I'm not running for office and I'm not on the ballot. In this airport is the furthest that can be from either through. That made me angry, I will be honest with you. SPEAKER: I understand. But where they came from, I said let's budget for 150, and if the county once more, if Cyrus blows it out of the water, we will lose money at that point. That was their understanding when they did all the work on the budget. DAVID SANTIAGO: And you did say that, I want to make it personal. I couldn't even point your members in a lineup, so there is nothing against them personally. They are very good. DAVID SANTIAGO: I believe that, but if you listen to me, the (unknown term) side is the economic side of the (indiscernible). It is my one motive. I have one motive: it is Volusia County's economic success. It is for one year. It is not an historical thing. I think your position might slightly be different, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but some clarification? SPEAKER: I will take this back to the Board, I think it was what they were thinking, to treated like the Ocean Center's fund In full transparency our meeting is not until tomorrow, so I cannot speak on behalf of the board to that. JEFFREY S BROWER: That was a long amendment.… Listen to the amendment first. DAVID SANTIAGO: It was a motion to approve and I wanted to add a precondition to the approval for fiscal year 2024-2025, for the purpose of promoting tourism in the Halifax, west central area of Volusia,… Southeast Malaysia advertising area and the (unknown term) advertising authority shall budget and allocate the sum of 400,000, 100,000, and 20,000 respectively for an airport rocketing and promotion fund that will provide funding for advertising costs for air service carriers, which are providing place to the Daytona Beach international Airport. Each authority shall reimburse quarterly amounts actually expended for such advertisements and promotions of said air services set on request as provided by the airport. That is the amendment. JEFFREY S BROWER: And the 400,000, 100,000 and 20,000 are are each -- DAVID SANTIAGO: Yes, that they submitted. CYRUS CALLUM: Yes, Lori and the other two advertising agencies we have been working very closely and cohesively to find the best solution for all parties involved. And so, we have had conversations about how we are going to move this fiscal year, in terms of using the allotted dollars that we have, or the allotted support that we have. Because this is not necessarily going to be dollars, per se. But the airlines go about it differently as to how they would like that support use. We are all going to be working together as we get these requests from the airlines. I envision a different than what we have been able to discuss up to this point. DAVID SANTIAGO: Cyrus, will this model work for you? CYRUS CALLUM: Absolutely. DAVID SANTIAGO: I will just say this on the part of the board, Cyrus has been doing fantastic work. But I think this is a message to others, because he is going after more. He is not done. For us to say that we have allocated these funds in a very dedicated way for air service support, it sends a message that he can talk about also when he goes for other roads, saying, "our counsel is not finished. If you come to our beach with your planes.…" I don't want to put words in your mouth but this is another tool in Cyrus's toolbox. I'm not asking for additional money, thank you Mr Chair. Sorry for the long-winded talk. JEFFREY S BROWER: Matt Reinhart for a question. MATT REINHART: It scared me too, I think the year is the difference-maker. That is something with this group that we keep going back and forth. I didn't want to do that. So thank you for clarifying. And that is something you said you were already doing. I am amenable to the amendment, because all that does is clarify what you are already doing. So I am good with that. JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman Dempsey. DON DEMPSEY: Yes, David I appreciate all of the homework you did in bringing this up. As you know, I was against the bailiff of the million dollar guarantee. I'm still against it. I hope it works, but I am a pessimist. This is great. This is one that is already there and we don't have to take anything out of any other fund and gives Cyrus the ability to attract more airlines.… I want the taxpayers subsidizing a failed airline. I just want him to draw people in and say, "Hey, we can offer you all of this advertising for lending the waivers and all that." I like that it's in his toolbox. I'm going to support your motion. JEFFREY S BROWER: Counseling Johansson. JAKE JOHANSSON: Yes, I have a question for (Name) at this point. So… Those are the numbers that you have already agreed to? SPEAKER: Correct. JAKE JOHANSSON: And the Board has agreed to that. SPEAKER: The board had a special meeting for that. JAKE JOHANSSON: What part of his amendment will have to go back to your Board for approval? Because it sounds like an execution piece, not a policy lease. SPEAKER: They have nothing for me saying this is exactly how it is going to work out. That discussion is going to happen tomorrow in our regularly scheduled September meeting. JAKE JOHANSSON: But, what we approved tonight, how was I going to run? You don't need to go back there before we can approve this? SPEAKER: No. No, I cannot speak for the Board, but I feel confident. I mean, we can't do a thing until our budget is approved and our fiscal year starts October 1. JAKE JOHANSSON: What I am saying is it sounds like we are all in agreement about the numbers -- (Multiple speakers) SPEAKER: Yes, the numbers all been submitted to your staff. It is just a question about works out. We will have a discussion in a public meeting tomorrow. And just for everyone, this is advertising used in key markets, it cannot be used as the minimum (indiscernible) guarantee. DAVID SANTIAGO: That is my intention, that is correct. TROY KENT: What part shock you, because you said this was new to you. SPEAKER: When he said it was a process of putting it in writing, it sounded like it was multiple years. We cannot discuss any of that. What we discussed is that we now have $400,000 in that line item. So you can imagine, this is all new to this Board. They thought we had a plan. I can't say it enough, this Board is very supportive of the airport and what it is doing. It is the process — and, David, I think you could that in the special meeting — it is the process that they had some issues with. TROY KENT: Chairman, a couple of questions after my comment? You OK with that? So, Councilman Santiago I want to publicly applaud you because what you did wasn't easy. And, it sounds like, you know, you have taken some arrows. You know what? That is being a public service. It is part of the deal. And, it takes broad shoulders to do that and to sometimes ruffle feathers, but did you hear what Don Dempsey said over here? "He is spot on correct about a few things." And before I get into him, I know you to be a hound on policy and procedures and specifics, and you came here doing your homework and know we have a plan. The plan is getting specific! It is not a rubberstamp of, hey, the authorities are here and we're just going to approve the budgets because that's what happens every year. There was some questioning. And that is healthy. And I believe your actions alone are going to be a huge benefit for our airport to continue to be successful, and our community to be successful. I didn't want the night to get away from us before acknowledge that, because it is lonely sometimes when you are that guy or that girl. But, you are that guy. So thank you for doing that. I am going to support it, as well. This whole idea of having multiple year, they are going to come back every year and this would be a similar discussion. We look at the budgets and it could be more, could be less. But we will have that discussion and it won't be as painful because you did the hard work already and you took those shots for this Council. So thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. Any other comments or questions? If not, I am going to ask: we have one member of the public who wanted to speak. Ken. SPEAKER: Mr Chair, just to be clear -- JEFFREY S BROWER: We are voting on the amendment. SPEAKER: I was going to roll it into my original amendment. MATT REINHART: I'm going to amend my motion. MICHAEL G DYER: Now it is an amendment to approve the budget for 2024 as laid out by Mr Santiago. DAVID SANTIAGO: I seconded it and I amended it. TROY KENT: Can I clean this up a bit? Withdraw your motion. MATT REINHART: Withdrawn. Motion made with what David said. (Laughter) JEFFREY S BROWER: So there is no amendment now, there is a main motion that includes these (indiscernible). Alright. SPEAKER: Next year, if the properties can come earlier to us to present. So there are no surprises. Thank you Mr Chair. (Roll Call) JEFFREY S BROWER: (indiscernible) and you will take all of this back to your board tomorrow? SPEAKER: OK. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK. Now you have a budget. We have about 12 minutes before we have to stop for the budget hearing, at precisely 6 PM. Do we have more than one public participation? Do we have any public participation for the close of the meeting? I could not hear you? SPEAKER: (indiscernible) SPEAKER: I have one for the public participation but not for the budget helix. JEFFREY S BROWER: I think we have time to do that and then that will give us time to do that before the budget human. John Nicholson. JOHN NICHOLSON: (indiscernible) continuing… There was an article in the paper, Lisa Lee was, I know you do not control her, but I want to make it public. This county is three blocks away from a voting station. Yet they wanted their own voting station. It was not necessary. And not enough people to support it. And yet, she gave into them. I think it is a bad precedent, there is no need to have it there. Three blocks is not that far to go. This is not condemning Lisa Lee was. This is just the process. And secondly, I am asking you to up your game, on the beside. The chamber has a leadership group, and every year they pick a project and they pick Main Street. And they want to improve the area etc. etc. You are own considerable amount of property in the city limits. You have all of our bathrooms on the ocean, they are all yours. None of them are attractive. Your approach at the northern end of your city, at the platter, is already resting. Your plans are dead. It is in terrible condition. I understand that we had the storms, but it has been two years. We have to get back to normal. You have to maintain them. I would to invest a seeing this every time they show up they are walking through trash on their way to the beach. You can help us by maintaining the property. What you have said to the Ocen Center about upping their gay because it is very large, (unknown name) Park was never maintained. Thanks to Danny you showed up and boom. It is much better. That is why I am so against putting that drug paraphernalia in the park. To draw that drug use back to the park I think is ridiculous. And yes, you can really up the game considerably, for Daytona Beach. I have talked to the Ocen Center, years ago there was planned a walkover, from the Ocen Center to the Hilton. If that goes in, and I know it is expensive, it is $1 million or so, and that sounds like a lot, but there are classes of Ocen Center's, the highest class is if they have a hotel associated with the Ocen Center or the convention centres. The Hilton cannot be considered part of the Ocen Center because there is a swing between it. With that work will be up our game. There are a lot of conventions that we cannot get that we could get. So I am asking you to consider that. JEFFREY S BROWER: You are cut off yet again. Thank you John. Let's break until 5:59 PM. Because we need to start the budget here and precisely at 6 PM. So if we could all be back at 5:55 PM, seven minutes. Yes, and then we will conclude the meeting. After the budget hearing we will return to our meeting to have closing comments by staff and council members. (Break) SPEAKER: Okay if everybody would find their seats, we will get started in one minute. JEFFREY S BROWER: Okay, it's 6 o'clock. If everybody wants to find a seat. You all act like you haven't seen each other. Okay, we will call the second and final hearing to adopt the proposed millage rates and budget for fiscal year 2024/25 to order at 6:01 PM. George , I will kick it over to you to start us off. SPEAKER: This will be the second and final hearing for the adoption of our annual budget. We will go ahead and go over the tentative budget and millage rights. I would like to get opportunity before we get started to think the staff, the division heads, the department heads. Who all worked diligently but this together within their areas, and then go live with that budget and of course a special thanks to Aaron VanClique, our finance director and leader of the budget team. And Brian, As they take all that was put together by these teams, and format and budget that you have here. Of course they work with outside agencies, the chairs department, and the other officers as well. And other outside agencies that are part of our budget, so it is quite an effort to put all of this together, and so here we are today for the final adoption. And with that I want to turn it over to Aaron VanClique and let him bring it forward. SPEAKER: Good evening counsel, finance director Aaron Van Kleeck, we will go through a couple slides of information that we have to cover by statute, then we will turn it over to public participation before you proceed with your motions and votes. So this is just giving you a millage rate comparison of where we were for 23/24 adopting. What the rollback rates are for 24/25, and whatever tentative rates were set at July and again the last meeting in September. The general fund comparison to rollback when you compare the rollback rate to the recommended tentative rate of 3.2007, it is an additional revenue of $3.3 million, that additional revenue is dedicated to the sun rail system, that is the increase in our budget for some real funding for FY 25. And, that is only for nine months of some real operation, so that number will go up in future years as well. The law enforcement fund comparison to the rollback rate is an additional $14.9 million in revenue, that additional revenue is to fully fund the Sheriff's budget request to satisfy the law enforcement needs. Volusia Forever and ECHO comparisons rollback, that is an additional 870,000 in tax revenue for each program, both programs are recommended at the maximum millage rate approved by the voters of Volusia County. This will allow for more grant opportunities, and additional funding for land acquisition and land conservation management. The MST comparison to rollback rate, the additional revenue there is $1.5 million, that additional $1.5 million is dedicated to cover the cost of police patrol for unincorporated Volusia County. Important authority, our comparison to rollback is an additional $212,000 and we are dedicated at the intercoastal dredging and nourishment efforts. In fire rescue, we have an additional 3.6 million in tax revenue, compared to robot, that additional revenue is dedicated to funding the union agreement. And the capital needs, we have station 15, station 22 and station 24 on the list. This gives you your budget and taxes by each of the taxing funds. Your countywide operating revenue, this is just the net operating budget of 1.3 billion, this gives you the operating revenues by category, I will point you to the appropriate in fund balance, 36.8% on the left-hand side, that amount will directly tied to the reserves on the next slide, and show you your use of fund balance in this budget. That is prior year savings, prior-year set-aside, so that is not new money, that is all prior your money. The countywide operating expenditures, and the reserves there was spent 377 million, when you compare that to the appropriate fund balance we are using over $100 million, and one time money to fund this budget and that is mostly for capital needs. In these appendages are broken down by category. At this time I can turn over to you guys for public participation. JEFFREY S BROWER: David Santiago? DAVID SANTIAGO: Looks like we are all going to have a very safe escort to our vehicles tonight. Very safe. JEFFREY S BROWER: Depending on how you vote. DAVID SANTIAGO: Thank you Mr. chair, nice to see you guys here. And women. MATT REINHART: Comments for the public since we are not ending the meeting at three in the morning, and hopefully many of them are still awake, there has been a lot of conversation in my district with respect to the homeless shelter, and I wanted to say for the record, in case you missed that meeting that we are discussing that any future meeting, that is not inclusive of this budget, and again, I am glad to see all of these guys here too, so I know I am safe. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. Is there any public comment? SPEAKER: No sir. JEFFREY S BROWER: There is not? Okay. DAVID SANTIAGO: I did this last time. JEFFREY S BROWER: No public participation, County Council is ready to hear from you? SPEAKER: So it's up to counsel I can read the rate you can move forward with your vote. You have the option to vote individually or collectively, however if your votes are going to vary between the funds, then I ask that you take an individual vote. JEFFREY S BROWER: Anybody opposed to doing it altogether? SPEAKER: So I will read all of them and then you guys can you both. So the fiscal year 2024 aggregate millage rate, I will stop to explain aggregate, that takes into account all of our millage rates for all of our taxing authorities any kind of aggregated to one, because there is the 10 B For the County and the cities, so this is our aggregate number. The fiscal year 24/25 aggregate millage rate for the Volusia County Board of County commissioners is a 6.8878 which is greater than the aggregate rollback rate of 6.5317 x 5.54%. The fiscal year 24/25 operating general fund is 3.2007 Mills is greater than the rollback rate of 3.1437 Mills by 1.8%. The fiscal year 24/25 operating millage rate for Volusia County law enforcement fund is 1.5994 which is greater than 1.3452 Mills by 18.9%. The Volusia County library fund is the rollback rate of 0.3891 Mills. The fiscal year 24/25 operating millage rate for the countywide taxing authority Volusia forever fund is 0.2000 Mills, which is greater than the rollback rate of 0.1850 Mills by 8.1%. The countywide taxing authority, pollution echo fund is 0.2000 Mills which is greater than the rollback rate of 0.1850 Mills by 8.1%. The fiscal year 24/25 operating luxury for the taxing authority is the rollback rate of 0.1647 Mills. The fiscal year 24/25 operating millage rate for the taxing authority and port authority fund is 0.0692 Mills, which is greater than the rollback rate of 0.0640 Mills by 8.1%. The fiscal year 24/25 operating millage rate for the taxing municipal district fund is 1.6956 Mills which is greater than 1.5646 Mills by 8.4%. The fiscal year 24/25 for the taxing authority Silver Sands buffoon Beach strict fund is the robot rate of 0.0106 males and the fiscal millage rate for the taxing authority fire rescue district fund is a 3.841.2 Mills is greater than 3.5459 Mills by 8.3%. Mine was longer than your (indiscernible). JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman Reinhart? MATT REINHART: Does the deputy attorney need to say anything first? Your name is up there? Oh, okay sorry. That happened to somebody else beside you. Mr. chair I would like to make an adoption for the proposal. For the proposed school year 24/25 as presented. JEFFREY S BROWER: Motion is to approve the budget millage rates as presented by Matt Reinhart, the second came from Councilman Robbins, any questions? Any discussion? All in favor say I? Any opposed? The budget is passed, 7 to 0. SPEAKER: So this is to adopt the operating and nonoperating budget. So the operating budget is $1,322,153,507. In the nonoperating budget is 257,428,775. JEFFREY S BROWER: Do I have a motion? MATT REINHART: Motion to approve as presented. JEFFREY S BROWER: Approved by Matt Reinhardt and the second is by Councilman Santiago. Any questions? Any comments? All in favor say aye? Any opposed? The budget is completed. And you have two months until you start again. Okay. DAVID SANTIAGO: I see Mike is here, is he buying lunch tomorrow? Oh there he is. (Laughs) JEFFREY S BROWER: Okay, alright that does conclude the budget hearing, so we will go back to our normally scheduled meeting so that we can have the staff and county counsel closing comments. I will give it just a minute or two to let the crowd noise thin out. (Chatter) DAVID SANTIAGO: Mr Chairman, motion to reconsider the budget? (Laughter) DAVID SANTIAGO: Motion to reconsider the budget? They all laughed. JEFFREY S BROWER: Ryan is still here, he can do it. (Chatter) JEFFREY S BROWER: OK, it seems to be quiet in the house again. So we will start with the County manager for your closing comments. GEORGE RECKTENWALD: Yes, one thing that has been asked about by a couple of councilmembers is we do have the first meeting in November, it falls on election day. Of course it's a national election. If there was a desire of the board to either move that meeting or cancel that meeting, and go with one meeting in November, or we can add another meeting in December if you thought. But I think we can probably get by with one in November and one in December if that's the desire of the Council to remove that meeting that's on election day. JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman Reinhart? MATT REINHART: Thank you, I think we know a couple of guys, (indiscernible) also the fact that it's election day for everyone else, I would like to make a motion for the one meeting. In November for that purpose. JAKE JOHANSSON: Second. JEFFREY S BROWER: With a motion by Councilman Reinhart and the second by Councilman Johansson to eliminate the November 5 meeting. The motion is on the floor, Santiago? DAVID SANTIAGO: (Indiscernible) I don't know we need to. The third Tuesday would be the only one in November, correct? I can live with that. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you, councilman vice chair Troy Kent. TROY KENT: Thank you,Councilman Reinhart if you waited, you could've stayed clean out of this and they would've made the motion to do the same thing. But you beat me to it and I'm happy to support it, I'm pleased to hear that the management things we can get by with just one meeting in November. In one meeting in December as well. It shows the true testament of the hard work we are putting in, the homework that we do to be prepared for the meetings, and hard work that staff does to also be prepared for these meetings as well. So that first meeting we will not have, and the second will be the afternoon meeting. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman Johansson? JAKE JOHANSSON: I remember Mr Santiago might have woken up and went, "Holy cow we have a morning meeting for the second meeting in July"so I want to make sure that we also address what time the second meeting would be in July and December, but it sounds like Mr Kent just cleared that thing out, so I'm good if every else's. TROY KENT: I'm good things. SPEAKER: Selfishly help me, but it's also the same thing that city governments are already doing, (unknown name) is Artie move their meeting, it's not just election day for us, is election day for everyone to vote. And we want to make sure that there's individuals like it out there to vote. As opposed to other things. JEFFREY S BROWER: Vice chair Troy Kent. TROY KENT: I'm going to touch on this, I wear my feelings on my sleeves, people know that I like you, but I want to tell you this, I don't want to make this better for you or anyone else on the ballot with the, chairman, I think this is the appropriate thing to do for what you said, our residents do not know how to make a choice of do I go to my publicly advertised councilman and participate in my local government or do I go and vote? Because people will still like to vote on election day. I do not like that we put people in that position. And I think it's extremely appropriate. I'm going to do a better job when we look at our next calendar and we start looking, I will start looking to see if any of our meetings are on election day so that we can address it right then and get that fixed. But I'm a fan, Matt Reinhart, at least if you don't I will tell you publicly that I am. This is the right thing to do our residents. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK. County manager, anything else? GEORGE RECKTENWALD: No, sir. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK. County attorney? SPEAKER: No, sir. JEFFREY S BROWER: Are you hungry? (Laughs) SPEAKER: Maybe. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK that takes us to closing comments by the County Counsel and Matt, you are on the rotation for today. No, David Santiago. DAVID SANTIAGO: I also to say that I also like Matt Reinhart full so that's all I got. Somebody stole my fan full stops SPEAKER: Can you clarify the vote on the meeting? JEFFREY S BROWER: We did not, all in favor of closing the meeting and dropping the meeting on November 5, say aye, and he opposed? So it's unanimous seven - zero, and the second you got. Alright, David Santiago? DAVID SANTIAGO: I like Matt, that's it. (Laughs) JEFFREY S BROWER: That was it. OK Don Dempsey? One like I have nothing. JEFFREY S BROWER: That takes us to Jake Johansson. JAKE JOHANSSON: Think the news, thank you Donovan. George, I neglected to talk to about this in the one on one, but I will bring it up today and we can discuss. We have some opportunities to include our stem students in our county, helping with issues and some of the easier ones that they can tackle and including them in the solution of some of our issues. I really would like to know if we can identify some opportunities where we can include Volusia County school stem students in County and private sector public private-public competition to come up solutions that we have not had time to address. Or things that we think of the stem students could tackle and succeed on. And provide us some out-of-the-box solutions that maybe we have not thought of yet, or things that they can come up with. The reason I bring it up as I find that stem students do not have a lot of hands-on experience at a government level and I have found that including them in a solution of a problem gives them some ownership in our future. I'll give an example, one of my sons did a summer internship where he was in college, and he did it with a site developer and although it was not a competition, when I drive around Volusia County with him he will point out, "You know why that curb is that way, you know why the outfall is that way" and he has nothing to do with construction but he takes a lot of pride in pointing out things that he is aware of here in the county. And (indiscernible) will tell you why he has a problem, and he's a sports advertising kid. I want to provide the opportunity to other high school students before they go off to bigger and better things. And maybe, maybe even catch the government itch and come back and work for us. So, I can work with whoever you would like, George, to identify a few private sponsors and coordinate an opportunity with Amy Monahan who has no idea that I'm doing this. So I probably need to get back in touch with her. And at the end of the day will allow the private sector and some of our folks, Ben Bartlett's team, to judge them and maybe even use one and the beta program. I would like to start moving on that. I would also like to ask counsel and staff if we can bring back the medical tax lien item for discussion. We asked staff, I think it was Councilman Santiago asked staff to look at the EMS impacts and if we can capitalize on that, and I have a good understanding of the chiropractor's concerns, I think we can look into that. And I've also talked to a hospital, and I'm willing to bring it back forward, I would like to get that on the agenda here as soon as you and the chairman can fit in. So with that I will make a motion to add the medical tax lien to a future agenda, it'll work for the hospital, but no later than the first meeting of February, I think that gives us plenty of time to get our act together. SPEAKER: I second. JAKE JOHANSSON: Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: So the motion is before the first meeting of February, to bring the tax lien issue back to counsel. JAKE JOHANSSON: No later than. JEFFREY S BROWER: No later than, motion by Jake Johansson and the second was by Councilman Reinhart. Any questions? TROY KENT: Yes, just one brief one. My mind is pretty sharp, but sometimes I forget things every now and then. Mr Johansen, you must've known, were you on the prevailing side and this is why you are bringing it back up? JAKE JOHANSSON: We kicked it, we tabled it. TROY KENT: We tabled it, OK, thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman Don Dempsey? DON DEMPSEY: (Indiscernible) JEFFREY S BROWER: Your good, any debate? Have a motion, a second, all in favor say aye? Any opposed? So that will come back on or before February. JAKE JOHANSSON: I would like to make a motion to put this subject of the rural area boundary discussion in the queue for the charter review committee in May 2025. The reason is I think it needs to be put into the queue because there is a lot of stakeholders out there who have chimed in and called me or other ways email me, who would like to address the issue, I understand that in 2006 we looked at this and our cities opposed. Similar cities to orange county, in 2006 the referendum failed with 65% opposition. But that was in 2006. I think we probably need to give it another shot. We received a lot of email regarding the rural area boundary that Orange County voted on. I know this is of interest to many of our community. I have some for it and some against it. But on the limited knowledge that I know, many of the people that are for or against it have limited knowledge of what it is about or have only a portion of the information. I will be talking to him on the executive committee, we have a meeting tomorrow and I will be talking to East Central Florida region planning Council, chatting with the firm Bureau and hopefully the (unknown term) association and also recommending that the agribusiness Council that meets at the end of the month take the rural boundary item up as an agenda item, and I would like to hear what they have two say as well. Since this is an item for the charter review committee, which will start to meet in May, I would like to make sure that the staff and us as elected officials do our homework and we may have two get briefed up on our one on ones to get up to speed on the difference between us and seminal in Orange County, and any other other Florida counties and find a decision to go from there. I like what orange county is doing, I looked at a map this week, I'm not quite sure what the differences are, because orange County what I read and look at could not make heads or tails really, but it appears that based on the properties that we have conserved with Florida forever or Volusia Forever on the east and west side kind of already form a boundary with some areas that probably need our attention, but already have our attention based on our list of properties chairman, I know you have commented on it as well, I think it's important that we take the time to take a look at it and I do not think that we can do a referendum vote until 2026 on it anyhow, so I'd like to really dig into it and make sure we are doing the right thing and make sure all of the stakeholders have their say so we can move forward in the best way possible. So my motion is to bring the staff research and details as well as stakeholder input of Volusia County rural area boundary back to counsel in March 2025 for consideration to provide charter review Council for consideration. JEFFREY S BROWER: There is a motion to bring it back in 25, that motion is made by Jake Johansson, and the second was by Danny Robbins, and I will just add that I have already placed that on the agenda for October 1, and the reason is exactly what everything that you just said, because it's a long process. It's not going to be approved October 1. We have to draw lines, the attorneys have chime in, there has to be public hearing so that everybody does know what is going to happen, and we can discuss all of that in October. Or on October 1. So I would be opposed to pulling it, and waiting until March 2025, I have already gotten it on the agenda. There is no reason to change it. We can put it before the voters until 2026, you are correct. Because I certainly would not be in favor of a special election, it would be on a normal election cycle. It's a very important issue, and I want to start that conversation in October, or we won't get it done. Jake? JAKE JOHANSSON: I would say won't get it done, (indiscernible) makes us look like we can't get our work done, and I understand it's a long process. As you are well aware, two of us won't be here October 1, I have mentioned it a few times, I think Danny has mentioned it a few times, I want to say somebody else not going to be here on the first, or is everybody else going to be here? Everybody else is. So two of us won't be here. Not the reason why I said March which gives us plenty of time to get it to the CRC in May. And kind of runs in conscience with the selection of the CRC as well. I don't know that the farm bureau and the agriculture business I think meets at the end of this month, and I don't know if they are ready to have a meeting, special meeting to get the information back, or even a considerate, but I think that it's kind of near sighted to not include stakeholders in the initial conversation. With their associations approval. Kind of similar to what Lori brought to us, she had to go back to her Association or her board for approval. I just think it's pretty important that we include everybody instead of doing it quick. Maybe October 1 is too quick, maybe March is too late, we can have that discussion, but I think we need to allow the people to clearly understand it, and provide their input and it will take them time to do that. And it will take me time to do that. You know, a lot of items we rely heavily on staff inputs, and staff reports. But I also do my own research, and I want to do that research, given the opportunity. JEFFREY S BROWER: Let me just say again, I have already put it on the agenda for October 1 for the purpose of starting the conversation so that everybody can get to that information. I had no idea that there would be two people not here. But that shouldn't stop the process of something this important going on that is not going to be approved October 1. The only thing that would be approved is if we could do everything that you say, that the process begins, that we start looking at maps, that we bring in every stakeholder. Bring in the public. Because it is a long process. So that is what I'm going to ask on October 1, that we approve starting the process so that everybody can, not to vote up and down on it, but vote up and down on whether or not we start the process to discuss the issue. And get everybody, the information that they need, Councilman Robbins? DANNY ROBINS: In business days it's less than that. Mr. Johansen has brought up a lot of good points where there is more than two years and I think handling this in a fashion just like baseball going through all of the bases because of the importance of a chair, and I agree with you on that, but we do have two years for this, we have to get a tremendous amount of stakeholders at the table, I don't think we can do that in 13 days or less. And do this right to get them there. Or here at the Council meeting. I want to follow a good process, we are making good process with this. And that's where I'm at right now. JEFFREY S BROWER: I will reiterate it again, I don't think that's what you're hearing. That's from Wichita October 1 is get the information out everybody. It's not going to be to say yes were going to do it. But to start the progress, so that the public can be well-informed. David Santiago? DANNY ROBINS: I understand that. It also believe and agree with Mr. Johansson that putting it in front of the charter review committee, because this has to go, and it's going to be a charter amendment, this is an important step in the process, and I would like to have that go through first. As Mr. Johansson stated. JEFFREY S BROWER: I would prefer not to kick our responsibility, because the County Council can do this. It does not have to go to the charter review committee, so I would prefer not to kick the can down the road, it's a long process. But what you're saying... DANNY ROBINS: What you're saying is that we are taking the voices away from some of these partners. JEFFREY S BROWER: That is entirely false. We get an agenda with items we have never heard about twice a month. Every month of the year and we can say this about every agenda item, well I haven't had enough time to think about this. Let's roll down the road. We deal with it, and this is one that will actually give us a long time to discuss it and consider the ramifications. Councilman Santiago? DAVID SANTIAGO: Thank you Mr. Chairman. I have heard both positions on this, and interesting subject. But if I look at it objectively, I think you making this motion Jake, we have started the conversation. And Mr. Chairman, you are saying at the same time I don't want to vote anything I just want to start the conversation on October 1 is what you're saying. But by Jake's motion, he is basically saying he has started the conversation. And to start that process, he is setting a date of March, if we vote for it, we have started the conversation. To schedule some work to be prepared to be brought to us, and some steps to happen in the meantime between now and March. I'm okay with March because effectively it's going to start the process. We are going to talk about here is the idea, let's start the process to get bodies together, to discuss this, which is what we already just did. That's what I see, I don't see anything different. JEFFREY S BROWER: The motion is to postpone the process until March. DAVID SANTIAGO: I don't see that Mr. chair. JEFFREY S BROWER: Didn't you put a date on it? State your motion again. I put it on the agenda for October, so we can start the discussion. JAKE JOHANSSON: Do we have a draft copy of the October 1 meeting? It's on the agenda but you haven't had the agenda meeting. What I'm getting at is a you put it on the agenda. JEFFREY S BROWER: Then you should have run for chair. JAKE JOHANSSON: I had no clue you were going to put it on the October 1 agenda, so I am putting it on the agenda now an I will reread my remarks. My motion is to bring staff research and details as well as stakeholder input on a Volusia County rural area boundary back to council. In other words, starting the wheels in motion in March of 25. For consideration to provide the CRC for consideration. So March 2025, everything should be done and we should start having votes on it, this is a two year process. From the 2026 election. So we have time, I want to get it started in time for the CRC to take it up if at the end of the day it's warranted. So yes, my motion basically has asked staff to start research and get it done. And I'm giving them till March 2025. JEFFREY S BROWER: And to bring about March 2025. Before I – Don Dempsey? DON DEMPSEY: What did you put on the agenda exactly? JEFFREY S BROWER: A discussion on the rural (indiscernible). Hostile annexations, to make a - I really don't want to go into the law thing right now. That's what I was going to do October 1. But to make it harder for us to change zoning and comprehensive plans without a super majority, of the Council. It's Orange County is doing it, Seminole County is doing it. It is gone through the court. It is been approved by the court. It does not have to go through a charter review committee. We are a chartered county, we can do that, the courts have said we can do that. On this particular issue. So I wanted to bring that up October 1, because it is a long process. We do have to look at maps, see where the rural boundaries are that we want to protect, it gives your residence especially Don on Carter road, the potential of not having hostile annexation of their neighborhood and changing one house per 20 acre neighborhood to thousands of homes. DON DEMPSEY: So you are not asking us to vote on anything permanent, you just want to do something for discussion? You are not putting it on the referendum for this election? JEFFREY S BROWER: No I can't do that yet. DON DEMPSEY: Are we in discussion here? There is a flooding issue on the west side I don't know if we necessarily want to delay this another six months. I don't know enough about it. But I'm interested, because… JAKE JOHANSSON: My motion, can answer that. We cannot vote in until 2026, so nothing's going to happen right. So I'm trying to think of hostile annexations, and I'm not saying they are not, but I'm not familiar enough with hostile annexations here in Volusia County. I do not know, annexations that people do not want? So annexation has to be asked for by the homeowner. Or the property owner. So it's not hostile is the person who wants it asks for it and gets it. SPEAKER: I'm not saying there are hostile. JAKE JOHANSSON: I'm just straightening out some definitions, let's say. And I'm just saying, I would like to start the discussion, that's my conversation right now. If you guys want to talk about it in Council comments on the first, that is fine as well. If you want to have an agenda item and talk about it, I guess you do what you want. But I have set in motion a timeline for what I think is important, to discuss this. I do not deny that this issue is important. I just set a timeline. The chairman apparently has a different timeline, my motion is this timeline. All we had to do is vote on it, if you don't like mine but you like his, we can vote. If it's important to you, it's important to me, this is important to me. You know, let's just vote. JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman Santiago? DAVID SANTIAGO: At this question, I'm not aware of any involuntary annexations that have happened since I've been here. JEFFREY S BROWER: Well I will be glad to share some with you on October 1, if that's important to you. What I am calling a hostile annexation is when a property owner says they want to annex from the county to the city and nobody else around them wants to do that and they have no recourse. And it completely changes their neighborhoods forever. And this gives us a tool to give them a say before that happens. DAVID SANTIAGO: What words have meaning. When you say hostile annexations, it's an inaccurate statement. JEFFREY S BROWER: Not to the neighborhood that is being taken over. DAVID SANTIAGO: Your rewriting the dictionary, you cannot do that in that role, that's what I'm trying to tell you. Because there is legal terminology that are used and we work with them here. I don't want to... JEFFREY S BROWER: I don't know you're talking about. DAVID SANTIAGO: Obviously you do not. JEFFREY S BROWER: So, County attorney, before he ask you a question, Councilman Robbins? DANNY ROBINS: I would like to call a question. JEFFREY S BROWER: Before I call the question, there is a legal situation here that we have to address. As the county chair, I am able to put things on the agenda. I sent you and the County manager a letter, I don't know one week ago, asking and telling you that I wanted this on the agenda. Does the Council have the authority to change with the County chair has asked for to go on the agenda, and postpone it to a different day, because that is really what is being done here. And if his motion is approved, does that change anything that I'm doing on October 1? SPEAKER: The charter does not have an express provision that (indiscernible) the situation, but what it does provide is that the manager puts together the agenda, the chair makes up (indiscernible) the agenda, upon the start of the meeting the Council is the control of the agenda. So earlier in the meetings when you approve the agenda you can remove an item and what have you. I only recall this issue coming up once before, with the prior counsel. We are a motion was made to postpone discussion of a particular agenda item for a certain period of time. So in reality, I think a reasonable reading would be you have two options. You can have the chair continuously put something on the agenda and have it be blocked by the majority of counsel when they are prove it, each time, or you can have counsel, or you could have counsel say they want to talk about the item at this specific date, they cannot stifle the chair bringing something up, but the majority can control the timing of it. That's the only reasonable way that I can read. JEFFREY S BROWER: You see that in the County charter? SPEAKER: I said the charter does not address the situation specifically. If you're asking me, can the chair continuously put something on the agenda that the majority takes off each time, you could go that way. But I think a reasonable reading is because the majority of this counsel controls the agenda once the meeting starts, it has a level of control with the timing. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK. A whole lot of words. SPEAKER: What you mean by that? JEFFREY S BROWER: What I mean is that I wanted a simple answer, can they override with the chair (Multiple speakers) JEFFREY S BROWER: The you do not see that in the charter. Because it silent on it. Oh, OK. That means you are creating a new rule right now. SPEAKER: I'm not creating a new rule. I explained my thought process. If counsel wants to have a situation where the chair brings up something at at every meeting and have it shot down, so be it. JEFFREY S BROWER: I have not brought this up every meeting to have it shut down. SPEAKER: I'm just saying, (Multiple speakers) JEFFREY S BROWER: You said that three times. SPEAKER: I have anything to her putting staff, and the manager who put the agenda together, in a tough tuition, I think the Council can (indiscernible) you approve the agenda items at the beginning of every meeting. What you're saying is if the majority of council votes to take up an item in March of next year, you want to call it up sooner, but you will face a situation where counsel has already said that I voted to have this in March, I think that's when it should be called up. We can put it on the agenda. I'm trying to come up with a reasonable interpretation. JEFFREY S BROWER: Is not what I'm saying, irony put it on the agenda. SPEAKER: The agenda does not exist, to be clear. You just said that, you said we had to have the meeting. JEFFREY S BROWER: So the fact that I, OK. This gets more and more interesting. So the fact that I Artie asked you in the County manager, and told you that I wanted to put that on the agenda. SPEAKER: You did. JEFFREY S BROWER: Because it is not written yet. SPEAKER: Let me be clear, the agenda is not published yet. I have a motion from a member of counsel to have a particular item discussed at a certain date. You're saying that you want it to be called up sooner. What I'm saying is do not put your staff in the situation where you have the chair and the majority of counsel going in opposite directions, on what they want on the agenda full so there should be some agreement on the timing of it. JEFFREY S BROWER: That we do not know yet if it's the chair against the County Council. SPEAKER: I'm speaking to the motion on the floor. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK. You just said if I'm against the majority on the Council, we do not know that yet. You are assuming that. SPEAKER: Just to be clear, I don't want words in my mouth. I am speaking on the motion on the floor. JEFFREY S BROWER: Right, I know that you are. What is your point? SPEAKER: County attorney, what are the rules once a member have counsel has called the question? SPEAKER: If it's opposed there is technically a vote. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK. It's opposed? SPEAKER: If it's opposed. JEFFREY S BROWER: Alright. So you have asked, Danny you have asked that we call the question without any further discussion, this discussion is really over except that I want to make it clear to this council that I we hear it all the time, if important to you is important to me, we need this amount of time to do this. So I will call the question and I will ask the Council to vote by voice on whether or not we postpone the agenda item that I have already placed on the unpublished agenda until March 2025. JAKE JOHANSSON: That is not the motions are. DAVID SANTIAGO: (Indiscernible) JAKE JOHANSSON: My motion is to bring staff research and details as well as stakeholder information on Volusia County world boundary back to counsel in March 2025 for consideration to provide to the CRC for consideration, this is a two-year process, for the 26 election so that we have time, I want to get it started in time for CRC to take it up, if warranted. JEFFREY S BROWER: Oh, I did not hear that the first time. What does if warranted mean in the situation? JAKE JOHANSSON: I believe the CRC has some latitude on whether they want to discuss it, is that correct? SPEAKER: Yes, it is aboard, to make recommendations to counsel, counsel sometimes is not accepted all the recommendation or changes them, or after the (indiscernible) presents a report have even added an item on their own which is what you both are talking about whether the authority of the Council can do. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK, let's be clear, that is an added extra step, the Council can do this. As a chartered county, we do not have to send this to the charter review committee. JAKE JOHANSSON: My motion is to bring the staff researching details and input to stakeholders of Volusia County rural boundary back to counsel in March for consideration to provide to the CRC for consideration. This is a two-year process for the 26 election, so we have time, but I want to get it started in time for the CRC to take up if warranted. That is my motion. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK, I'm going to be a hard know because this is something that the County Council needs to do not handed off to somebody else. Vicechair Kent? TROY KENT: Just briefly, I like games, but I don't like games like this, this is not file something we deserve to do to you. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK. Jake Johansson? JAKE JOHANSSON: Yes her very quickly, I feel like it's very important as most other counties did that it ends up as a referendum vote. It was a referendum vote in 2006, and people may have changed their minds, I think it's an important issue and that is why I take the CRC should bring it up for a charter review and a possible referendum vote. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman Dempsey DON DEMPSEY: I want to make sure and clear, what you're asking us to do in October (Indiscernible) nothing on referendum, we are just going to discuss it? JEFFREY S BROWER: Now there is two things. Yes, all you will be asked to do is start the process. He is asking that we send it all to the charter review committee. I'm saying that we do not have do that. This counsel can consider it and put a referendum on the ballot in 2026, so that the voters of Volusia County can decide. My concern is that kicking it down the road to March 2025, does not give us enough time and that it takes it out of our hands. Input into the charter review committee's hands. I wanted in our hands. DON DEMPSEY: Alright, thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK. (unknown name)? Would you call the role please SPEAKER: Mr Santiago? DAVID SANTIAGO: Yes DON DEMPSEY: No. JAKE JOHANSSON: Yes. TROY KENT: No. ...(Roll call) JEFFREY S BROWER: The motion carries 4-3. It will come up in March 2025 and go to the charter review committee. And, so this may be something that I bring back every Council meeting. OK. Jake, anything else? JAKE JOHANSSON: No sir. That will do it. JEFFREY S BROWER: Vice chair Kent? TROY KENT: Thank you. I wanted to start out, chairman, not only think but you in this Council and George, you and your team, we have become a very efficient government machine at these meetings. We used to have 12-13 hour meetings, and before Council comments, because staff comment was good. Before Council comment we did our meeting and budget hearing in two hours and 13 minutes. Spectacular. So I applaud those that are creating the agendas, and I applaud this elected body for working efficiently and being prepared for these meetings. Delta, 45 years at international Airport, incredible. And if Lynn is still in the house from the Ocean Center, Ms. Flanders, I will just say I am excited about the possibility of those changes, to the Ocean Center, to help bring in more concerts and musical acts. Last but not least, I want to wish a very happy birthday to Tim (Unknown Name). Tim is my son-in-law, he is 30 today. In the conversation I had with him about how great your 30s are I think was exactly what he needed to hear. But he is, if you could choose a son-in-law, he is who you would choose. He loves our daughter, he is an excellent provider, he is a fantastic father. And I just wanted to say happy birthday to you Tim, we are fortunate to have you. In our lives, and your family is very fortunate to have you as well. Good night. DAVID SANTIAGO: Does he like his father-in-law? JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman Reinhart? MATT REINHART: Thank you chair. One is to already had on tonight, I will hit on another one. With respect – I don't want to keep bringing up beating a dead horse. I don't necessarily see why we couldn't continue to discuss this on October 1, to give us a little more information, that's fine. We vote on the process to be started. So – and I think that is essentially what October 1 is going to do. Was to start the process. And I get that. One other thing, so you know there's not a lot of information, I understand about it either, so I want to know more. So I have no problem learning more, we can discuss it all the time. It is an important issue, and we have all received a lot of emails about it. And I think it's important to discuss. So I'm open to that. So anyways, also – JEFFREY S BROWER: You voted against it? It is now postponed till March. So I can't bring it up next week. MATT REINHART: I misunderstood, I apologize. Anyways, that's all I have, thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman Robbins? DANNY ROBINS: Thank you chair. A couple questions. A couple time because there Daytona Park Estates with that community, Clay, thank you for coming out, and giving us a couple hours of your time and your knowledge then, where is Ben? Then there you are. Thank you. There was a lot of DPs it is a pretty complex issue on its own. And everyone there has pretty much reached out, 20, 30, 40 people and said thank you for the emails that you put together. With all of that factual information on it. So thank you for that. In the process of this I got to thinking, County manager, do we still have – let me rewind a second. Clay you might be able to answer this. May I borrow you for a few minutes Clay? We identified in that meeting a portion of those lots are in a floodplain area that have festive lights. Do we still have a small lot acquisition program? CLAY ERVIN: Know that was part of Volusia Forever and that was done in conjunction with St. John's water district. We are still utilizing it but primarily in the Cape Atlantic Estates here is that is where it was originally targeted. I don't believe the Daytona Park Estates has identified as part of any of the map areas but Brett is coming up to save me on that answer. DANNY ROBINS: I don't know if that would be an option for folks to take some of those problematic lots? SPEAKER: We have a couple subdivisions identified as part of the acquisition program. It was part of the original program, we haven't looked at that in a while. We can certainly do that. But really it was because there was no infrastructure in those areas. And we have seen where there were developers that were aggregating lots, and trying to develop in areas where the info structure was not there. It wasn't costing taxpayers more in the long run. When we have people developing areas that you don't have the infra structure or a plan for the infrastructure. DANNY ROBINS: Would it be, I apologize because I just don't know, would it be possible to look at in the future if anywhere in DPE, that may – way in the back where it's not – where there are no utilities, there is nothing where can we see if any of those may be eligible to fit that program? I'm looking not for commitment – SPEAKER: Just like your Volusia committee came for a goal last year of looking at a boundary expansion of the corridor, you know we can look at them, because it's Volusia Forever dollars, I would recommend using the advisory committee to do some evaluation and recommendation to counsel. DANNY ROBINS: If we can just make a note of that, I would be willing to explore it and take recommendation from the board. If possible. SPEAKER: Right now you have approximately 3300 total lots were part of Daytona Park estate subdivisions. Of that there was roughly 2900. So there is 400 that are not invested. The remaining 29 have been invested. There's approximately 1500 that have been built upon leaving roughly 1400 that are still yet to be developed. Of those 1400, that are left to be developed upon 900 and a floodplain. So we will work with Brad's folks to identify this is potentially an accreted subdivision tech meet the criteria for the (indiscernible). DANNY ROBINS: If we can combo some of those lots together and make a bigger… But that would only… And really quick I don't have much more – counsel as you probably know. We had a tremendous downpour storm, that took no prisoners, in Florida shores down… In less than two waters we got inches of rain. And it impacted the streets. In the system there. The mayor and city had reached out late that night, 11, 12, 1 o'clock in the morning. We are on the phone with each other kind of coordinating efforts, his crews out there, County manager, everybody was right on top of it. So thank you for that. There was also some issues that were reported by residents down towards the end of Florida shores which is still within the city. Of possible development that they approved with a pond wall that breached, and a pump that was running. And that is just allegedly at this point, I did see some videos out there, that were pretty clear, but I am not in a position with that assumption yes, but I hope that we can all come together and there was something that we could do or prevent a future from that happening, that we all collectively do it and thank you again for providing that mutual aid Ben and George and the County manager, to the city of Edgewater, they really needed it. In less than 12 hours, the water was gone, I haven't heard of any homes, officially reported, but I do believe that there was a couple reported, so if any of our community focused community aid folks can keep an eye out for some of those, I would appreciate it. Furthermore, last night there was a city of Edgewater meeting. It was pretty emotional. There was a lot of valid complaints. And I applaud the city for making the time to listen to the residence, to see how we can collaboratively address some of the issues. I'm proud to say that our assets were immediately checked on, the 14th which was Saturday night, and it was reported back that all of our stuff was functioning in the area and maintained in the area. And so thank you for that. There were some remarks made at the meeting that hurricane Irma and Ian showed us where all of our weak spots were. The county didn't act on it. So I just want to take a minute and go through with a couple departments and briefly some of the things that our team has been doing, counsel over this last year or two, since hurricane Irma and Ian. Then with public works do you have a minute? Ben thank you. I know just the top my head we've adjusted some stormwater fees. We have dramatically increased impact fees. We are ready to have dedicated road workshop. Can you provide us with any accompaniments that we have made forward in Southeast Volusia or reclamation our area canals, and the dollar amount that we've spent on those? SPEAKER: Yes, we have had quite a few projects, in the cell these portion of the county. You mentioned Ariel and (Unknown Name), a multimillion dollar projects that we have worked on and not only address water quality but helped us install water provisions down there. We are actively maintaining all of our canals in that area to ensure that every thing flows is should. You know we have done a series of flooding projects that have addressed flooding in the areas. Holly Hill, up in the railway area as well as (indiscernible). The threat of the county, we have – as the storms come in we have ident fight areas where there is issues, and some storms have different issues than others, and then we work to address those, so that they don't happen again. As far as Ian goes we are at Council's direction can forward with updating our studies, with information from the most recent storms as well as current land use so we can identify capital projects that we can construct to address some of the flooding that we saw during the most recent forms. And we are going to continue to do that, and we will be bringing those back to counsel periodically you know to look at, to approve those capital projects as they come in. DANNY ROBINS: Have we been working on a flat analysis study with Edgewater? Is there something that we are working on where we can get them some funds that were… SPEAKER: The city of Edgewater is in the process of doing a master storm water study, there is city in all of their assets. We have had staff level discussions about including you know we have the board canal area, the aerial canal. We have a few assets in that area, we have nothing for sure, but we do have assets in Edgewater that are tied to that watershed basin, and so we've talked about and will be bringing at some point, hopefully an agreement with the city of Edgewater. On a joint project agreement to work with them on funding portions of the study and working with them to develop a series of projects that can address not just some of the flooding concerns with the city, but some of the issues we have you know with our assets as well. And hopefully series capital projects we can work together on. We've worked with them on the lagoon insurance plan. DANNY ROBINS: I know the conservation efforts we did today, in addition the other 1800 that was back there, Brad, was that correct that we (indiscernible). SPEAKER: When we talk about it being a basin, you can see I've grown up in this area, so I know it very well. You can see Florida shores has that 10 foot elevation. And it slows down into that basin swamp at 5 feet. What this property does it also gives us – do you see the blue line along the property here. That is a 20 foot canal that drains into the swamp. And then eventually into the North River lagoon. It is privately maintained at this time. What this will do as during our negotiation process of getting the district to manage it, they look at those canals and said we do not want to maintain these. So at that point, I went to Edgewater and said will you maintain these canals if we acquire this property. And they have agreed to do that. They are happy about the prospect of being able to get in there, kind of doing evaluation of where they are, and what they need to do to – move forward with looking at the different ways that can address the issues in that area. DANNY ROBINS: Thank you Brad, and I know the two if they haven't already they want to talk to you about putting the second round. SPEAKER: They have couple of projects that will be probably funded in the first round. And we are working with the cities on those. Some issues that will be eligible in the second round. So that is going to be coming out here in just a few weeks. DAVID SANTIAGO: Can I ask Danny question, if you will take a question. Danny, I want to understand what you said in the beginning, I know a little bit about this meeting that occurred, did you say that a member of this body spoke and said that since the storms that the County Council has done nothing? Is that you said you heard. DANNY ROBINS: I did not mention a name. DAVID SANTIAGO: What you said a member of the Council. DANNY ROBINS: No I believe I said that there were some comments made, I did not allude to anything. There was a member that had made some comments about this. Which I was not getting into because it is immaterial at this point because I know our guys are doing everything that they are supposed to be doing. Does that answer your question? DAVID SANTIAGO: But it sounds like it's a false statement based on what I just learned. DANNY ROBINS: I could probably agree, that's why I'm asking (indiscernible) respectfully. DAVID SANTIAGO: Thank you. DANNY ROBINS: Going forward, coastal, George you have anything? GEORGE RECKTENWALD: I think Jessica gave me a few updates on where we are at just the other day here. All of our vehicular access points for the public have been restored except for (unknown name) and ISB is being redone right now it was not damaged by the storm but is being worked on. We are also talking about A1A makeover. Also public access is maintained to the walkover's, there are some privately maintained exceptions but all of the publicly maintained walkover's are now open. All the parks have been restored with the exception of (unknown name), that is an FDEP permit review. We are targeting here as early as November, 1,500,000 yd.³ of sand that will be replaced for dune re-nourishment. And we got word that the Omni core (unknown term) we went ahead and you might recall that we had (indiscernible) that was no small feat, get ready for the judging. It will be offloading on Rattlesnake Island, getting the sand off of that, we worked with find that was kind enough to help us with that. And down there we worked in the Edgewater pit where we were able to get sand for over 300 private properties that now have, or had it one, temporary (unknown term). We have the long term estate feasibility studies underway, there will be public meetings after the holidays and we will have a report in the summer of 2025. And so we continue of course to work with the fish and wildlife, and U.S. Fish and Wildlife, to allow for in season construction accommodations, again that was a big lift for us to make sure that people could continue working on their properties through this turtle season and we have been diligent in protecting the turtles and making sure they worked together. That is what is happening on the beach, from the storm. DANNY ROBINS: Thank you George. Brad? A couple more quick questions from research storage shed? How many acres or percent we have that are in permanent conservation now in Volusia County, and how many do we have up in the queue? SPEAKER: 36% as I said in the previous meeting. I will say that I got some calls from my friends in the (unknown name) community and we said 50%, 50% is not all Volusia Forever, it is all federal state and local partners. And so, right now we have about 12%. I shared a graph of counsel earlier today that my team put together from 1945 on in terms of acquisition. We have about an additional 12% on the list right now for this if we were to acquire everything will I will say the negotiation process, some deals will not get there, we have a few that were there but the offer is still on the table, if those folks want to come back to us. That is where we are at this point. DANNY ROBINS: To know how much money we have roughly spent in the last few years, is that too much of a question? SPEAKER: No, with our partner money we have spent about $7 million and our partners have spent about $9 million, we are in a real good position right now. We use our dollars to leverage their contributions. DANNY ROBINS: And I know we had discussions, Brad, and we tried to do overall as a county including the city like a one-for-one, conservation and building, but what we do in Volusia, would you say that we are 3 to 1 or 5 to1, 10 to 1 in terms of now we (indiscernible) SPEAKER: I wouldn't want to provide you an accurate number while I'm standing at the podium and they do not have the top of my head but I will certainly share it income person overall, I think that would be an important number to have. In terms of the counties role in conservation and what ratio it is. DANNY ROBINS: Thank you Brad. JEFFREY S BROWER: Clay, you are up. DANNY ROBINS: I know, Clay, your department is always busy, you have brought numerous housekeeping updates to us that are in line with state and federal, adhere to those, that we have two update full stop now that you are streamlining the process and working towards ways to eliminate (unknown term) on our direction. I have a couple of questions, because I received some calls last night asking in Volusia County if we are in the practice of filling in wetlands? Is that part of our com plan or our development plan, if so why and if not why not? SPEAKER: Right now in the charter encumbering the plan, we have minimal environmental standards identified. Chapter 50 identifies what those are, the critical thing is avoidance and minimization. And so therefore from a county perspective, we coordinate with DEP or St. John's who has similar permitting. Our standards are higher in regards to buffering requirements and mitigation for those types of things. So therefore, say you have a situation where access to the uplands on your property requires the installation of a road, we would allow for the road to go through because otherwise you are not getting access to your property. However we would now offer further degradation of the levels because again, the road is necessary so we don't see that skirting the avoidance and minimization. That still does not mean that there are not impacts to buffers which we require mitigations, and there are impacts to isolated wetlands that are allowed by both federal and state law. DANNY ROBINS: But it is not part of our, if someone came to with a plan and said they wanted to fill over and fill in and pave over a wetland area, I've never seen that? SPEAKER: As part of the review process, if somebody is talking about impacting wetlands, the quality of the wetlands, we would look at why they are having to impact the wetlands in the first place and if there's a viable alternative on the site to be able to rearrange things so that they can come again, avoid and minimize. If there's a situation where viable use of the property is not feasible unless there are impacts to the wetlands, and it is obvious, then we would allow for those impacts but again it would be required for mitigation, typically they do a little bit of accommodation of work on site, and also utilize wetland mitigation. DANNY ROBINS: Is that controlled by like a state statute where we have to allow them certain options, pretty much above our pay grade? SPEAKER: It avoids minimization, and that is what we have an comp plan and minimum standards, and all the regulations in chapter 72. DANNY ROBINS: I had some of the questions, are we obligated to follow state building codes and regulations and why? SPEAKER: Yes. After hurricane Andrew it was identified by the legislature and the governor at the time that we had to come up with a uniform building code for the entire state. So there was the Florida building code put in place in 2002 which is utilized in all of the counties in all the cities. DANNY ROBINS: And how about for building in a floodplain, do we have to follow that and why, and what happens, Clay, sorry to put you on the spot, what happens if we do not follow that? SPEAKER: Volusia County and its cities participate in the theme of federal flood insurance program. And part of that is you had to put in place certain rules and regulations to assure that you are minimizing the impacts for the wetlands, or excuse me to the floodplains, and you have two adhere to specific standards, you hear us talking about a foot above base flood elevation etc. The whole point behind it is that we follow the federal standard so that our residents can be participating in federal flood insurance programs, which provides insurance and a better rate for them. And then we do the community rating system so that that way, basically maintenance, infrastructure and regulatory worlds get a discount for those. We are currently I think five out of a skill of 10, we actually have enough points for (indiscernible) but we do not have enough programs for that. That relates to about a 25% reduction in the amounts of people pay for flood insurance and (unknown term) will stopped DANNY ROBINS: And based on, moving on, hate to keep doing this, but had to go on record because in getting calls about this because people are very confused. There is a lot of misinformation floating around. If somebody has vested rights on their property, based on your training and experience, what legal options does counsel have legally, what are we up against? If someone has vested rights on their property. SPEAKER: Chapter 72 of our code identifies what vesting is, so it talks about how you can't just, we cannot just issue building permits to properties unless we can prove that they are legally divided, vested in me concurrency. So vesting is one of the parts to verify that a property can be developed upon. Once it's met vesting, if it complies with the land-us or a proposed development complies with the land use (indiscernible) we can issue the (indiscernible) DANNY ROBINS: Two more, annexations? Who initiates an annexation? SPEAKER: Annexation is a wide open area, you can have votes of an area, you know to annex, you can have private land, mostly the annexations we see are private land owners who contiguous and meet the requirements for the statute that they voluntarily annex into the cities. That is the majority, otherwise you can have either city initiated attempts to annex areas that are in the area Inc. but that would require a referendum of the registered voters in that area and I see (unknown name) off to my left and my peripheral and he can give you much better information. DANNY ROBINS: You are hitting it, Clay. SPEAKER: There's a couple different ways for annexation to occur. You know but most of them if they do not include volunteer would haft be subject to some sort of referendum. DANNY ROBINS: And if a person voluntarily does it, if they meet the requirements, are we allowed to deny it? If they meet the requirements by statute, or are we compelled to annex. Does that make sense? SPEAKER: And annexation... DANNY ROBINS: A lot was said last night. SPEAKER: it means that I is not property owner (indiscernible) and then I'm creating an on class and it's illegally defended, I don't know what is, I will have two defer to my friends the attorneys as to what could be potentially legal battles against it, but technically that's compliance with state law. If they are creating an enclave, if they are not contiguous, if they are trying to utilize right-of-way for gaining (unknown term) then we can identify that and we can object to the (indiscernible). DANNY ROBINS: So in summary, if they do one, two and three, they are good by state statute because that's what it calls for? SPEAKER: Yes sir. DANNY ROBINS: On projects in the city, if you want to build a house, this is a stupid question, but I'm answering it and putting it on the record for, I should not say stupid question. SPEAKER: The development of the county with their review ranges from plan down to release of division site plans. And so, at the plan level if you learn from Mike and (Unknown Name) in the past, that is allegedly to function, we have through the Volusia group County growth management commission, the ability to comment if a city is proposing to do something that we object to. With the last go around of the charter review, they changed the rules, so our folk is really impacts on our and for structure utilities and those types of (indiscernible). So if we see someone as proposing a plan amendment, it is going to create problems from an infrastructure perspective, there is no solution identified for that, then we can object. Once you get into the zoning, typically unless we are adjacent property owners, I don't know if we can refer to that, unless we have standing to object to rezoning, then we can do that. When it has the land-use and zoning similar to our standards, it can then go into the subdivision and site plan, subdivision and site plans where we are going to look at it primarily from impacts to thoroughfare roads and if we are the utility provider. DANNY ROBINS: If I wanted to build a home at 442 an umbrella tree that is on something that come before us to vote on? SPEAKER: No sir, the only thing we would collect impact fees. DANNY ROBINS: Good job Clay, when I hear these things I feel it is my duty and the duty of this counsel to praise where we think we are doing good and to correct any misinformation out into the public because it quickly, especially in instances like we had over the weekend, things can grow legs very quickly and it's not, when things are not true and quite frankly it's not right, especially in the wake of a crisis where people are counting on us to be there and help out and be transparent. But thank you guys. I'm not one here to sit here and say nothing, I am more of a person to stand up and many of you are as well to face some of the stuff head on and I look forward to a conversation hearing more about what we do as a team in the future and the hard work that our team and our counsel members are doing day in and out. Thank you very much. JEFFREY S BROWER: Is that it? Okay. I've got to hand it to you Danny, that was a pretty- usually closing statements by a councilmember are pretty spontaneous, but that was well orchestrated. Okay. And I'm glad everybody was so prepared and have the files that they needed to answer your spontaneous questions. As you probably knew, Santiago, I was at the meeting last night. I was actually invited by Edgewater counse member to come. And I also talked to - well I talked to every person on the Council when they took a break. I talked to them about transform 386, the money that was available. I'm glad that they have something in there they didn't think they did, so maybe their city manager will clarify that. What I didn't do, is criticize Ben Bartlett or anybody else. I never do that. Ben Bartlett has been a go to guy for me anytime I have an issue. What I did do, you are absolutely right is say that in the two hurricanes it came, it did expose all of our weak areas for flooding. That is what the meeting was about. Last night. And so two years later, we still have issues with flooding. I did not blame that on Ben Bartlett, or any of the people that you just called up here to insinuate that is what had happened. It wasn't. What I said was – you've heard me say it before. We need to change our development pattern, that starts at the state, it starts at the county, and it starts with us. And I said specifically it is city council members and county council members that continue to vote for clear-cut developments, raise them up and displace all of that water into the neighborhoods, and I'm sorry, that is just the truth. We see it happening all over. We can talk about no wetlands ever being filled in, and I will be glad to take you to latitudes, to the Tomoko Village rural overlay, to tailor road. To Edgewater where there are flooding severely. And maybe it's the way we defied a buffer maybe it's the way we define a wetland. But the mayor (Unknown Name) last night using example of a family member that got flooded out, couldn't even get out of our home, he had to get her out of the home and to grow through window. And the reason wasn't that the County ditch in front of him hadn't been maintained. The reason was because right outside the back door there is a 6 foot wall of sand that used to be a wetland. And maybe it's what Clay is calling a buffer, but when you put a six-foot wall at the edge of a buffer to an area that used to drain into the wetland, part of the actual Lake is still there. The wetland that used to drain that water is now 5 foot of sand, and it is a wall and it backed all of that water up. And that is happening all over the county. It happened to local village rural overlay. And built a development there. It is just not true to say well know we don't fill in wetlands. We fill in buffers right up to where the water never goes away, and it's just filling in the wetland. I've got a whole bunch of things on my plate here. And I'm going to stick with them. So I'm not going to allow you to pull me off. But you also mentioned Daytona Park estate, I was going to bring that up as well. One of the things that I noticed there Clay when I did a tour, I think before you were there, I don't even know if you went before Councilman Robbins and staff went and looked at it. One of things that I noticed was the reason – it's really obvious when you go there and say it's black. It's hard to drain. The water flows slowly. But the stormwater system is so inconsistent that you will see a house has a swale in the driveway. And one next to it. And then there is three houses that don't. And I'm wondering why – somebody has to approve all of his houses. Why are we approving anything warehouse can go and not have that swale, and not have coverts, because it affects the entire stormwater system. Is that something that comes on the county, are we approving that, or who is approving it? Because that is what is really – that is one of the major problems, in Daytona Park estate, is some homeowners – I think the builders are told, this is what the homeowners tell me. The builders are told they have to do it, if the homeowner is not there, they think it's because they save a little money. I don't know what the reason is. But it is happening. There are a lot of swales that aren't there, they are filled in. SPEAKER: When we look at a building permit we are looking at the private property and use permit. That's why you see Tad standing over to my right, he will address that but there is an inspection of that aspect to ensure that whatever existing culvert or swale is there is maintained. We require the builder to sign an affidavit in regards to how he's going to be addressing the stormwater company we have the right to come back and request reasonable accommodations. That is why you will see for example the lady who came in and spoke about the problems she was having with residential development occurring around her. Our inspectors at their required on the property to the immediate I believe north of her, to put in a basically a system to prevent the water from going over onto her property with a swale, and a small stem wall, and routed out towards the road. So it would be able to go to the culvert or swale that is in front of the property. SPEAKER: As it relates to the drainage structures of the system. Out there, they're just simply isn't what. Part of what we require is part of a new subdivision is that you implement the mains and methods for conveying water to some system, some storm water pond along those lines. This subdivision predates all of the stormwater requirements in place. And unfortunately there isdesign for swale systems or dish systems out there. So unfortunately what you get is a property owners come into develop, you get a haphazard set up where you get inconsistent (indiscernible) or swales, sometimes you don't get anything whatsoever. What we typically require is that the assumption for things as we move forward, any new homes that go in, that the driveway connections have some type of pipe underneath to allow the water to move from side to side as should be done if this were a new subdivision. The problem we have is without a storm water plan and set grading plans with each of the individual lots, you end up with a problem usually just mentioned were you got one home that was built predating the stormwater requirements, so it's it's low versus the road versus what our current requirements are where it has to be at least a foot above, then you start getting elevation differences, and then inconsistent flow pattern overall. And then without a lack of design, for the conveyance system, the water doesn't really move anywhere overall. There should be a swale system established on each side of the road. That would take it to a stormwater system whether it's a pond or whether it's an existing whale that carries out water out of there. Unfortunately because the system as it is there is not. JEFFREY S BROWER: That brings up a whole bunch of questions I'm going to ask. We know they are not there. There are homes being built that aren't doing what you just said putting in a swale and a culvert, how is that allowed to happen? Here's the thing. You both know and I know that there is flooding there, because of that. Because people aren't following your recommendations. Put in a swale, so I'm wondering why don't we have a storm order plan there. What do we have to do to get it, but to drill it down to the most minute detail, why are we – why do we have no control over a house that's going to flight out their neighbors, because they refused to put in a swale and culverts. Why do we approve it? SPEAKER: I think is a couple different issues there as you said. Usually when we are talking about flooding at your neighbor specifically, it's a case is usually mentioned where you got one property on the building at current standards versus another property whose home predates the standard, so it's at a lower elevation. It takes quite a bit of work that case to make sure the water doesn't move from that higher lot now down to that lower lot. And as Clay mentioned you put in step wall, you can do different things. But none of that is specific only required by our code. It just says that you were not allowed to send water to your neighbors overall. So that's why we put in place the affidavit that was really the best requirement to come up with. Because the rules don't specifically – our rules don't specifically state otherwise. So with regard to the flooding issue, overall – JEFFREY S BROWER: Wait – our rules don't require what? SPEAKER: They don't require that you specific only put in a grading plan that pushes water overall. It allows for the historic flow that currently exists. So if you have a lot that 66 inches higher the water has roughly moves in that direction. By even state lights allowed to occur in that direction. You can't fill it more and said more water that way. But that's with happening. So to get a change in flow pattern, to send the water out to the front of the lot which is how most subdivision designs generally are set up now, then you gotta go in there and add elevation and potentially putting swales, and prevented from going side to side as it may be doing right now. It's a case by case basis and not a problem on every lots but certainly it's enough that it demands attention. JEFFREY S BROWER: That the problem with a lot of lots and a lot that I saw are billed at grade right next to each other, and one has a swale and a culvert and the next one doesn't. And so it becomes a damn. And it backed up either to the house next door, or the house across the street. SPEAKER: I can't speak to the previous, all I can tell you is that with our current, every time we allow for a driveway connection we require them to put in a pipe underneath that driveway, which establishes that flow condition. JEFFREY S BROWER: And I'm glad to hear that... (audio issues) SPEAKER: Go ahead and put that in, but we do not have any (unknown term) control this case, but part of why the subdivision rules have been developed that way, all of these things put in place prior to building on the lots. JEFFREY S BROWER: So as you said, some of them have been there for a long time and they did not put in a swale or a culvert, is there a remedy? I mean it's going to end up being really expensive to go in there and put in a stormwater system. Is there a transform 386 funding for stormwater that can go in there and repair that, what recourse do all the homeowners have? SPEAKER: Well there is a couple of different potential recourses, you can do a special assessment district. I don't know what the budget is for transform 386 but this would be quite a large undertaking, the first thing you need to do in a case like this is go out and survey the properties, identify where the water could go based on those surveys, and you do not want to just start moving water. Water is going to go someplace, and someone will be at the bottom of the hill, and they will receive a lot more water than he previously had and they will not be happy. You don't want to go out there willy-nilly and start digging holes in the ground, we need to figure out what needs to be done and where we can put the water in the first place and start getting to that. It was be quite an an effort and would take a while for some JEFFREY S BROWER: How do we get to that point? SPEAKER: One of the things that came up out there is a specific question. How can we fix things? And one of the things that we talked about and what we are looking at is we have done a subbasement study of DPE, it's old, really go out there and do a study and look at these issues and understand that at some point DPE is going to get built out. And take a look through that study and see what could possibly be done, identify the deficiencies, Tadd spoke to it, that will give us an idea of what is needed and then you can go back and develop a cost to put in a system that might actually work, a budgetary cost, and then we can go back to the DPE folks and a plain to them the special assessment district that this is the infrastructure that should've gone in but when we built subdivisions now, this is what goes in. This is the infrastructure that should have gone in, this is what would have been dealt to the cost of your lots and homes in so we can explain how that is going to cost, and what that would entail from a macro perspective and see if they would be interested in approving any special assessment to get that (indiscernible) JEFFREY S BROWER: Has there been a watershed study done in the area? SPEAKER: There has been one, DPE, subbasement study, we will come back to the Council to provide the priority list for the watersheds that need to be updated, that is one of them and that will be pretty high up on the list. **Audio lost** **Audio restored** SPEAKER: Recommended. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK, I'm not blaming you, I'm looking for solutions and answers, and we had to work together, it's the same thing that I told Edgewater last night, just so that you know, because I don't know what you have been told I did not blame Edgewater on you. I said let's get on the same side of the desk. Let's get your city Council, the County Counsel, sit down and look at what ditches do we maintain, what ditches do you maintain, where are the issues if any? But you had to work together, the cities and the counties. So, thank you. Jake Johansson? JAKE JOHANSSON: And you may not be able to answer it, DPE, can we consider that low income community or (unknown term)? SPEAKER: That ties into LMI situations (Multiple speakers) JAKE JOHANSSON: The reason I ask is not (unknown term), commerce, money to have special taxing districts at low cost. I know once you do the study and you say that this is what it's going to take, they're going to go... SPEAKER: And we talked about that out there, and DPE, the advantages Clay alluded to is that there are 3000 lots of their so you get a little bit of an economy of scale similar to what we have in (unknown name). JEFFREY S BROWER: OK, thank you, is Clay still here? Hiding behind the big guy. You can probably help me with this. TROY KENT: Chairman, I wanted to tell you that Nicholson is gone. Even John Nicholson left, sir. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK, sorry, with DeLand, there is 142 lot development that I guess has been proposed as a conservation subdivision. Are you aware of it? SPEAKER: Yes, there are two of them, two separate properties that are utilizing the conservation subdivision regulation for their development. The conservation subdivision came out of the 2014 Smart growth policy implementation committee. I'm aware because I was the chairman, that committee identified based on the smart growth policy that were adopted by the County, to put in place the conservation subdivision standard, it's basically focusing on a low-impact development standard where you would have at least 60% open space and get incentives for conservation wetlands, preservation of habitat, maximizing open space, so that way you could again do a development that would have the smallest footprint on the area. It was limited basically to the eco-and Norma areas, the corridor overlay, natural resource management area. The whole point was serving the subdivision process as the method of approval as an incentive to utilize those. JEFFREY S BROWER: Who approves the conservation subdivision? The planning department? SPEAKER: It goes through the standard (indiscernible) given overall development plan and (indiscernible) in the technical review is carried out by the technical staff in DRC approves the overall development plan and preliminary plan, (unknown term) the final is approved by the city Council. JEFFREY S BROWER: The final plan is? SPEAKER: Yes, sir. JEFFREY S BROWER: That is one of the issues with social media, people who live in the area, not their fault, but they are afraid that they have no say whatsoever. So some pretty prominent area residents say that this particular place is already a wetland, they said it wet, our properties are now flooding, they have been wet for two weeks, and if this is developed it is going to get worse. Ultimately, it comes back to the County Council, but just for the PLAT? SPEAKER: Yes sir. JEFFREY S BROWER: So the area around it has no say? SPEAKER: This is the same process we have for all subdivisions, conservation subdivisions or a dirt road subdivision or a regular subdivision. The overall development plan in the preliminary (unknown term) are reviewed by the DRC in the final (unknown term) that the city Council takes action on, mainly because state law says that the Council has to sign off on the final PLAT. It is a process that follows the standard subdivision rules and regulations. JEFFREY S BROWER: So the public will, with all of those things you mentioned, there are public hearings? SPEAKER: No, sir. JEFFREY S BROWER: What you mean? SPEAKER: There are no hearings, it's a technical application and the code to the properties, so it goes through the (indiscernible) and the DRC, but the approval of the overall development plan in the preliminary plan in the development review committee. JEFFREY S BROWER: There are public hearings, in a normal subdivision, it is posted that this is what is going to happen. SPEAKER: No, sir. If it's got the zoning and everything, the only time that you have a public hearing is when you are changing (indiscernible). JEFFREY S BROWER: In a conservation subdivision, zoning does not matter? I thought it override zoning? SPEAKER: No, (indiscernible) dictates the density. And you get density bonuses for the amount of wetlands that you conserve, the open space that you conserve, so therefore it is not changing the land use and it's not really changing the zoning, it's just taking all of the development that that the property has available through the future land use element and basically compressing it into one area since you have greater open space around it. JEFFREY S BROWER: So what is your recommendation to me and the neighbors calling for scare to depth of this coming and having it being flooded out, what recourse do they have? SPEAKER: Is in compliance with the code right now. As a matter of fact, it is the type of development that previous and current councils have identified and want to utilize because of implementing many of the LID standards of compact, development, with an extensive amount of open space so the storm water is kept on say at the proper locations. We will be glad to meet with whoever who wants to go over the plans and show them what is going on. But it has to be our stormwater requirements and go through the review. If this was a regular subdivision we would have the same conversation. The difference is that a regular subdivision can go in impact more areas where is this is an attempt to condense the development into an area and maintain a higher level of open space. JEFF BROWER: And Holly Hill every time it rains, not necessarily really hard rains, it backs up into bathrooms, bathtubs, it's mixed with sewage water and it's coming into their homes. It is an incredible problem, the same thing happened during the rains in Edgewater where manhole covers were blown off and raw sewage is being dumped out on the streets. That's one of the reasons that I wanted to bring up and have brought up the rural boundary agreement, because it would help with things like that. Another thing that would help, and this is my final thing, everybody, is section 202.4 requires minimum environmental standards. It was added in 1986 to the County charter. I have heard, I think we heard it again tonight, that the County has no say, no input at all, of what happens in the numinous apology in a city. According to 202.4 that's just not true. It's false. This section makes it clear that the County has already exercised jurisdiction within all these municipalities when 202.4 was passed. We can have input into the cities, but right now we are not. If what is being said in public is true, so Mike, I'm not accusing you of this, but I would like to know if County councilmembers are being instructed, being told, that there is nothing you can do about anything that a city does. SPEAKER: No, I mean what we've said before is pointing to 202.4 that allow for the establishment of minimum standards, I think in your ordinance you, it's about 70 pages of environmental standards that were adopted by ordinance at this Council on that subject. What we don't have is zoning (indiscernible) authority within the cities. That's how I've explained it. JEFF BROWER: That's what I understood. That's what you told me a long time ago, so I was surprised when I heard that, that councilmembers were being advised that there's nothing we can do. I believe 202.4 requires us to set minimum standards, and it has since, I think since 1986 the city has required a.George do you know which cities have applied and given us their minimum standards? I know that, well, I think Deland and Edgewater have… GEORGE RECKTENWALD: I think all of them I think a few years ago we didn't audit and found everybody to be pretty much in compliance. There may have been one or two that maybe haven't updated something we've updated, but they all had standards, most of them follow depending on if you're like talking stormwater they tend to follow St. John's water management standards, it may have been a few years ago I think the Council increased some buffer standards and I think that's the last time we took a look to see what the cities had done along with that. Yeah, they all had standards, at least in alignment with what we have. JEFF BROWER: OK. Are they standards that they have written? Or are they just, have they said they will comply with the counties or St. John's standards? GEORGE RECKTENWALD: Yeah they can do either, basically. They have their own, a lot of no default like St. John's. JEFF BROWER: I could be wrong I'm not a lawyer, I only play one at home, but when I see the law I see they have to write their own standards, you don't think that's true? SPEAKER: (unknown name) director of resource management I know in the past Where we had a city that when it came to it we could, in a court, adopt in our codes reference to the County standards. And as long as we did that we were in good graces with Volusia County, and then there's some things where the county prevails and the cities don't have to. You know, there's a… So the minimum standards that you see for storm water, those types of things, when all of those came through as you were saying in the 80s and into the 90s I know when I was at the city of Moorman Beach and at the city of Port Orange we had to basically verify that all of our minimum standards were consistent with the counties. I know in Ormond there was a couple times where we just said we were going to defer to the Volusia County minimum environmental standard and utilized that as the standard. JEFF BROWER: Alright that was my question. They were codified, they have it as their own. SPEAKER: For example I'm familiar with Normand beaches, at one point they had their own set of classifications for wetlands and a very complicated wetland protection but it was above and beyond what Volusia County, when they got rid of those standards they basically put in their code of ordinances wetlands shall abide by the Volusia County minimum standards and St. John's for the water management district standards. JEFF BROWER: And here's the million dollar question that comes after that. If we discover that, if we think that those standards aren't working, if we have sewage backing up in homes in Holly Hill and in Edgewater or stormwater systems that are working, the law, the current law, says as a charter government, we can go into a city and raise their minim standards because they are not working. And the law says that they… Shall have all powers of local self-government not inconsistent with general law or with special law approved by vote by the electors. The governing body of the county, operating under a charter, may enact county ordinances not inconsistent with general law. The charter shall provide which shall prevail in the event of conflict between county and municipal ordinances, and our charter says it defers to the County. The county would take precedence. No, I'm not suggesting that we go to all the cities and tell them what to do, I'm suggesting we get on the same side of the desk with them and say, look, we've got flooding from one end of the county to another, we've got to figure this out. The minimum standards are not working. And we need to improve them. Which is why I wanted to bring up the rural boundary agreement because it gives us even greater tools to do that along with the cities and does prevent annexation or gives us, no, it can help… It can prevent annexation that surrounding neighborhoods don't want, it gives the county more power, because usually the annexations are coming from the cities to us. SPEAKER: Mr chair at 5075 of our code, and I don't expect any of you have in front of you, but that is your environmental minimum standards and it provides a mechanism, the county, the remedy for the county we sue, we sue a city for not enforcing minimum standards because they can enforce or adopt them as their own or enforce something more strict, we would just need, this is more a (unknown term) issue but we would need to know they aren't following them. But if they aren't we can soothe them to enforce. JEFF BROWER: So if they are following it and it's an adequate… SPEAKER: You can change the standard? JEFF BROWER: Yes. Thank you. That's what I wanted established here today. That we are not without options. We haven't been neutered, we can work with the cities and increase standards if they have to be. It probably won't be easy, but it's not accurate to say that there's nothing we can do, and, again, go ahead? Did you want… OK. So thank you. I knew that was the case because you and I had discussed it, gosh, maybe my first few months in office. SPEAKER: Yeah the rural growth County discussion, (unknown name) County has my understanding on three charter review process, and what has resulted from that, as my understanding, is the rural boundary amendment but it's a separate amendment that would also apply some restrictions on voluntary (indiscernible) so it's actually two amendments. I don't know how many are actually going to the voters but there's two lane use related ones, so you have a couple different things that play. You have a tool currently for the environmental minim standards that counsel can implement by ordinance, you can amend those if you so wish, there's a process, a code and a charter to do that, basically interacting with the cities getting their feedback before you can adopt it, which was done, I guess, in the mid 80s. Most of these environment albums standards were adopted in your code in 1988. JEFF BROWER: Right. So the County Counsel could strengthen our own requirements because things change over time, and according to a 5076 that you just brought up, it says in the event of a conflict between any standard procedure requirement or regulation established under this article by a municipal or enacted by municipality, in the county, and a standard procedure requirement or regulation established by an ordinance of the County, the county ordinance shall prevail within the municipality to the extent of any conflict. SPEAKER: That's basically the language you seen our state constitution. JEFF BROWER: It is. SPEAKER: It's what makes charter counties unique compared to non-charter counties, because non-charter counties have only those powers the legislator gives them and has the powers the legislator hasn't taken away. So it is a different model. In that way. That charter counties have the ability to do that. So… JEFF BROWER: So thank you. But that's all I wanted, was to just have that confirmation that the County has not been neutered and that we can affect problems that we have with our cities. Thank you… SPEAKER: The orange county, what orange county is doing is not identical but similar to what this counsel put on the ballot in 2006, really different from environmental minimum standards because it's wading into land-use authority going into the County instead of the city, that's over simple vacation, and then within that rural boundary, given the county the, I call it veto authority, it's not what they call it, it requires approval with the County commission if the city was annexing that area. JEFF BROWER: OK thank you. That's all I had. Thank you for bearing with me. Danny Robins. DANNY ROBINS: Thank you chair, County attorney, real quick, clay hit on it earlier, difference where we do have control and not in terms of voting, do we have control and anything over the city's zoning and the projects that they, I want some clarity because I know there's a separation there, I know we can set standards on one end, but in terms of voting on their projects, and zoning know? SPEAKER: Apparently the cities of Volusia County have their own independent zoning (indiscernible) authority. The state constitutions as a charter can specify what controls, within a city, i.e. the county regulation of the city regulation, so the environmental minimum standards in 202.4 were an example of where the Council was given higher authority over cities on those environmental topics. DANNY ROBINS: Just the standards but not the zoning of the project think you. JEFF BROWER: We are adjourned at 8:16pm.