JEFFREY S BROWER: If everybody would find a seat, we will just start in one minute. 30 second warning. There he is. You alright? Okay, we appreciate everybody being here today. It's good to see the house filling up. We will call the October 1, 2024 Volusia County.... **Audio lost** Any faith group in Volusia County if you would like to participate, your church synagogue, faith group whatever it is. Send an email to K green, the kgreen@volusia.org, and she will get you all set up for that. And then we will go into – I'm going to just make this announcement as well, we will go into public participation when I call your name, please come up to the podium here. It can come up and down for height. It's important that you get a microphone right in front of you. So that we can hear you, but also the people that are listening online and this is recorded, you will have three minutes to talk about any issue that affects Volusia County. And, there is a lot of people here, I don't know if we have a lot of people that want to speak. So we are going to hold you to three minutes, and we will give everybody an opportunity to speak. So with that said, the invocation this morning is from the central Florida free thought immunity, and we have Angelo if you would like to stand please do. SPEAKER: Good morning, and thank you for this opportunity. As a representative o of the land it's an honor to be here. Representing the Central Florida free thought community. You might notice that October 1 happens to be international music day, world vegetarian day, and international coffee day. But more to the point, this day we are in the middle of Hispanic heritage month. Begun in the Johnson administration to recognize the contributions and influence of Hispanic Americans to the nation's achievements, culture and history. I am a proud member of the 16% of Volusia population that is Hispanic. As we shape the future of Volusia County this morning, please take a moment to reflect on our diversity and the strength it brings our beautiful and vibrant County. Consistent with that, we beseech you to approach each decision with open minds and hearts. Guided by reason, compassion, mutual respect, and the spirit of cooperation. As you work toward the shared purpose of bringing an enhanced quality of life to all residents of Volusia. I close with a quote from Helen Keller. "Alone we can do so little, together we can do so much." Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: I pledge allegiance… (Pledge of Allegiance) JEFFREY S BROWER: Okay, Chris has a chance to work through the crowd there. Would you please call the role? SPEAKER: Mr. Dempsey, Mr. Kent, Mr. Reinhart, Mr. Robbins. Mr. Santiago, Mr. Brower. JEFFREY S BROWER: We do have a quorum especially with the vice chairs saying here twice. Just to underline that fact. Oh boy. We will move to public participation as soon as the clerks are ready, apparently they got several timely entries. Okay, thank you, we have more coming. And 12 already here. So please stick with the 3 minute time limit so we can get everybody in. I will call your name in the order they come up. Please tell us what part of the county you are from, you don't have to give your exact address for safety reasons, but it would be nice to know where you are from so your representative here will know. First we have Robert Monee. SPEAKER: I am Robert Monee up the land. I'm here to exercise my God-given right to freedom of speech. October 9 last year I was arrested to face life in prison for holding up this Bible. Inciting that our struggle is not against flesh and blood but against the rulers. The authorities, the powers of this dark world, and the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. And Psalm 109, Holt not by PSO got of my praise for the mouths of the wicked and deceitful are open against me. Let Satan stand at his right hand. This was to public servants on public property that have targeted and tormented me for years, in retribution for years. I said I was going to help Satan kill the sheriff's helicopter crew. The media is part of corruption. The media was fed to them by corrupt law enforcement as truth without consideration the back on facts. My long struggle for survival against the corrupt **Audio lost** Led to tortures, court order injections of heavy psychotics. The evil acts (indiscernible) the Volusia County said the Council was paid by meeting. It was returned non-service with the demand of federal marshals service, and without refund payments. The second attempt by court was rejected again a demand for federal marshals service, citing a state statute, the federal court will be witness, law enforcement and public officials must be held accountable to its citizens, it begins with freedom of speech. Those in power believe themselves entitled to cover up of their criminality, it is my right and duty to oppose and expose what I know. To be unacceptable and evil. I like Julian Sanchez was criminalized for exercising freedom of speech against government criminality. This is the same struggle that crucified Jesus Christ. And will continue to guide and protect me. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you, Karen Clark. SPEAKER: Good morning anybody. Karen Clark. If you can keep the item 7 world boundaries on the agenda, and start now listening to discussions and getting everything going, because there is both side status. And I'm just hoping that they take care of that. And there is an 11 minutes video or something available that may be could be included in the public aspect when you do take it up. That is finished with that one. Now, we've got to say thank you. You got really great people up there. In zoning and whatnot. And they really take their time, even I would want to strangle one of the people that were talking to the people, your employees. And you just gotta get a thank you now, and the last thing, if someone can tell me when is the county graciously coming to get the debris that came down from the trees? If somebody can hear can by the time I leave tonight, could let us know when the county is coming by to do that favor for us, even though they don't have to. Just let me know when we can leave all of our debris out on the roadways, not the roadways, but where they tell us to. Like after the other bad storms we had. That is about it. And your garbage people are good. JEFFREY S BROWER: Yes they are. SPEAKER: (Unknown Name) is worth every pound that he is. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you very much. I hope you heard that complement Paul Richardson? SPEAKER: Morning counsel, my name is Paul Richardson of Deland, and I come here to speak unto our coming up in the upcoming vote. Amendment three and four. **Audio lost** Marijuana legalized in marijuana. The saying here, the amendment three will allow smoking of marijuana anywhere. In apartments, hotels, condos, public beaches, parks, and yes even here in the East council chambers. So I want to light a marijuana joint in here and nothing can be done to stop them with amendments. It strips all regulations for smoking without regard. (indiscernible) appealing market. In Colorado, and California, when marijuana with legalized, young children skyrocketed with accidental dangerous overdose. So, they say it's over 21, even only smoke over 21. Marijuana will be targeted towards kids. And they will be hospitalized in mass. And I honestly think that we should vote against amendment three. Now, what are you for? I am for the reelection of all of you guys here on the Council. Matt and Jeff particularly. I do support you personally. On a personal level. I support your reelection. And I do support the other amendments. One, two, five, and six. And I hope you keep item 7 on the agenda two. Also God bless the people affected by the hurricane, God bless Volusia County, Florida, the USA and the Israel ally. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you, Debbie Dorino? SPEAKER: Good morning, Debbie to Reno, Port Orange Florida, the reason I'm here today, is because I want to talk to you about the animal abuse database. For those of you that don't know, me or what I do, Ponce law was my bill that passed in the state of Florida. It allows also for judges to ban a convicted abuser from ever owning animals or having contact with them. For that reason, I decided I was going to create the database. For the county. So I met with several people, Mr. Recktenwald, Laura Roff, if you look at the screen you will see my text message with Laura asking if they had any problem with us making, instead of 10 years, forever. I want people that are convicted of animal cruelty to stay in there forever. Today incidentally it's the anniversary of Ponces law taking effect. We've been in effect for six years now. And since people ask me, how will we know if they are banter but not? I said well, look in the database. The first month it was up and running, two people went to Halifax Humane Society, trying to adopt out animals, and they were in the database. So two animals were saved that day. I'm sure there is countless more. Seminole County reached out to me also just a few months back, they were going to do a database also. Wanted to know if I could help them with it. So I did, I went to over seminal County. Which got an award of the counties also, we are the only ones that have an award. Throughout the state. So that is a good thing. And, while we were discussing how long they should stand there, we decided forever. So the mineral County has a database marveled after us and abusers stay in there forever. So I'm asking that you put on the agenda to vote on just changing it to forever. And that's it. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. Suzanne (Unknown Name)? SPEAKER: Suzanne, Volusia, Ormond Beach. On Tuesday, September 17 on closing comments, the Council voted to delay the discussion on rural boundary and Bedminster March 2025. The following recording it's from April 2023. JEFFREY S BROWER: The first month, we didn't do it because they advertise the two meetings. So the first two meetings at the second meeting that we had, it didn't even take place there, so I'm fine with keeping it exactly the way that we agree to, and if we are going to change it I think we should put it on the agenda, we should change it so that people know it's on the agenda. And have the discussions that not doing it at 1032, 12 hours and 32 minutes into this meeting. Just my thoughts. Jake Johansson? JAKE JOHANSSON: That was ironic. That we are not going to discuss it because it's 10:32 PM. However, because there is no public here. However I firmly believe that administratively, when we gain consensus, that is one thing. But I think any vote that the public is involved in deserves to be put on agenda. I came from a place where stuff like this happened and people were like I was going to say something but I know you were going to vote on that. So, I'm all for putting it on the agenda. SPEAKER: So why impede the public for participation for voting during closing comments on an un agenda item. To add insult to injury, they said that that charter did not address the injury at hand. Public procedures, the Council welcomes and encourages comments from the public, members of the public shall be given a reasonable opportunity to make comments on matters that may warrant action by the county and speak and be heard on items placed on the agenda in accordance with section 286.0114 sort of statutes. Reasonable opportunity for the public comment was neither encouraged or welcomed at the time of the vote. The words if warranted stated in the motion impede the due process of allowing the public to speak, furthermore the chair stated his intentions of staff placing – two staff of placing the item on the agenda October 1, we support allowing the discussion as our right to participate, and what is supposed welcome, encouraged public comment on today's agenda item 7, rural boundary amendments. Thank you for your time. (Applause) JEFFREY S BROWER: Charlotte Gillis? And I will - as she walks in here, I will let you know she was a councilwoman of the city of Edgewater. We appreciate you coming this morning. SPEAKER: Thank you so much chair Brower. Good morning Charlotte Gillis from char water. I would look to think all of the Council and staff for being here today. And I would like to express my appreciation for chair Brower for the meeting. For almost 2 years I've been a councilwoman, but today I'm speaking to you on behalf of my family, and for those of you that were too nervous to speak as a concerned resident of Volusia County. I believe discussing with the want and we believe we should hear information about processes that may be beneficial to us in the future. As a lifelong member of a city in the two years alone have expense flooding from both 100 year storm, and 100 minute rainfall, I feel has exacerbated Beck's potential growth. I feel we need more safeguards added to protect our woods and wetlands to prevent Volusia County from becoming less and less like the County we grew up here loving. You are not voting on this issue today, and no decisions will be made, if permitted you are only opening it up for discussion and I would love to hear all of your thoughts on this matter. If I've learned anything in politics, it's that there are always hoops to jump through and meaningful change in fact takes time, but I bet you don't postpone beginning the opening of the store, because there is so much that needs to be done before getting the ball rolling before 2026. I have watched too much farmland in Woodside once for wield and become cookie-cutter forms because of zoning changes in the past that comes back to haunt us all. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Barbara Stansberry. SPEAKER: My name is Barbara Stansberry. I reside in the blue spring area of Orange city. This is my third visit regarding the dangers of amendment four on the agenda. The resolution was submitted to all of you a few weeks ago. **Audio lost** And removes common sense, maternal health and safety regulations. Therefore, we are united in urging all Florida to vote no on amendment four. And they quote "it overreaches, it's too permissive, and it's too irresponsible. The heartbeat protection act clarifies that abortion restrictions do not apply to active tonic pregnancy, miscarriages, premature rupture of membranes order disease. It has exceptions for rape, incest, human trafficking, fetal fetal abnormality, life of the mother, and irreversible impairment of a major bodily function. Although advertisements to vote yes are available, they are blatant lies, and do not in any way mention the heartbeat protection exceptions." Citizens of good will need our commissioners that we rely on, to actively discuss and approve this resolution, to enable citizens to be well-informed, not be deceived. Before going to the polls on November 5. I think you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. SPEAKER: Douglas (Unknown Name), I live at his or road, I've lived there for over 50 years. I have been in Volusia County since 1953, so I might be one of the longest living into Volusia County residents here. And I want to – I was hoping that Mr. Robbins would be here today. Because this has to do with him. In the rest of the Council. This is something that Mr. Robbins put on one of the Facebook pages a while back. I'm going to read it for you. He says "interested in learning more about development and Volusia County. See the presentation that was provided to myself, the chairman, and counsel back in 2022." that is that man, and the Council and the rest of the people. I don't know who it was that was involved in it, but I now know the source of why the county says they can't do anything about developments. It comes from how you have been indoctrinated, by the staff. And that includes that man over there. Who is the most powerful political position in Volusia County government, more than you all. He can influence more. Anyways. To go on he says "Volusia County is an overall growth of 1.6% growth, but the fact is he says Volusia County Council does not have jurisdiction authority of oats, or have a say so in any development within the cities. They have jurisdiction in the unincorporated Volusia owning. When you hear a county elected official at this point say that they will stop open development, even in the cities, please know that it is simply a lie. No it is simply a lie that you cannot do anything, because if you go back to 1986 they passed the informative standards. It says in their that it applies both with the cities. And the county. Rural boundary is the same thing. Chartered government is different then the other governments. You have more power than you could ever imagine. If you listen to this thing that you can do anything, that is BS. The role boundary as part of that. And this should move forward, because you do have the power. You have more power than you can imagine. You have been led astray by staff or somebody who gave you this presentation. And I'm very passionate about it, because I've been studying this for a long time, since 1985, got interested in Volusia County government. I stopped for a while, and right now I am really pissed because of the fact that this lie has been perpetrated. And this man over here gave me the reason why it is happening. In 25 seconds, that's enough for me to sit down. Thank you very much. (Applause) JEFFREY S BROWER: Gina Holt. SPEAKER: Good morning. My name is Gina Holt, I live in Edgewater Florida. I live in the unincorporated part of Volusia County. I am a native Floridian board in Ocala Florida. I am a 30 year resident of this county. Development is happening at light speed in our rural town. It is changing the nature of where we live, and how we live, Volusia County desperately needs a rural boundary charter amendment as a way to control annexations, that are contributing to the development induced flooding we are experiencing. I have heard a lot of people in positions like yours explained that development isn't causing the flooding. I have seen firsthand how the water in my area, I live in the Turnbull Habakkuk, I literally live in the Turnbull hammock and it is a basin that fills and drains. And 20 years ago we did not have the amount of water that we have now. I see areas in my county that have been destroyed by these developments. If we don't control development in the way we develop it will never solve the flooding issues that we are experiencing. This is a tool the residents of Volusia County need, this is our tool to hold Volusia County Council members accountable to the residents, not developers. This will provide an opportunity for Volusia County, the 1630s, and the Volusia County school board to work together to manage growth in Volusia County. This will not take away rights from property owners. The current situation of annexation undermines responsible development, because there is no plan for the cities to keep sensitive wetlands safe from development. Our wetland forests are our flood control for our cities. Just as the forest is flood control for the coastline. We can balance our growth and preserve rural areas and plan for interconnected lands, not islands in the middle of development, allowing wildlife and humans to thrive, giving our children the chance to experience wildlife and wild lands instead of just concrete and buildings. I urge you to start that discussion now. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Gina Holt. That was her. That was so good. How about Dana McCool? **Audio lost** SPEAKER: To cancer patients for $500 each that money went to them personally for their support. If you didn't get there, I would encourage you to make it 22 any five-year year to attend wake out for cancer. It's an amazing Volusia County centric charity focus on getting cancer patients on their level, on that level. With the money going directly to them. So I would encourage you to do more research and get involved. I want to talk to you about our levels of service and development, I come to you today as a representative of my constituency, I am a Commissioner in Deltona, and we have had as you know devastating flooding, we have had devastating development, and in our city, we have had unchecked, unbridled development in our community. And we are at a point to, we have been fiercely approaching our new plant to make sure, to protect our residents from the flooding caused from unchecked development. We have topography in Deltona that is really not conducive to the amount of building we have had. We have neighbors perched up, 3 feet sometimes 4 feet atop of their next her neighbor. And I'm going to say we are moving forward from that as a city to make sure that we are protecting our residents from predatory development. And when I say predatory development, I saved the developers that go unchecked do the bare minimum to protect our residents. And you know, I will address that advice city also. We have a lot of talking about how money people are we going to have live – how many people does Volusia County hold? What is our level of service? We have failed I believe to talk about things such as school concurrency. I talked about that a few times regarding as continuing to build schools because of development without addressing the teacher shortage. In that concurrency formula. That is still not been checked. I hear crickets about that. I would really like that taken Searcy, because basically we are hurting children into buildings without the proper support. Especially in the EFC arena. But that is another time for another thing. Lack of talking about our relationships with developers. I'm going to be talking abut that in the next few weeks to get it's really hard to represent the people when you are rep resenting developers also. So I am putting that out now, and Deltona, it is a new day, and I am putting developers on notice that we expect more and I expect more out of our county to protect us also. Thank you. (Applause) JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. Katherine Pantay? SPEAKER: Good morning counsel, Kathryn. I request of rural boundary movement remain on the agenda today. Develop might induced flooding is affecting residents in Orne Beach, South Daytona, Edgewater. All we do have issues with drainage due to lack of maintenance and integrate it storm drains that need to be updated, we can no longer deny overdevelopment and the way we develop is a major factor in our county's growing flooding issues. Myself and many residents are tired of hearing there is nothing the county staff and County Council can do. From the left side pointing fingers in property rights. Residents have property rights also. It's also claimed the county and his counsel can't do anything about overdevelopment. There is core proven tool that seminal County and plummeted into thousand six, and orange County recently voted seven – zero to put under twitch 24 ballot. It is called a rural charter development. This can control rural areas of Volusia County. If we don't manage the development and how we develop, we will never stop flooding and only create more dangerous flooding conditions putting life and property at risk. I sincerely hope today, we do not witness the obstructionist behavior some councilman display during the last Council meeting. We need to be valid ready for 2026. In addition, this item was requested by the County chair to be placed on the October 1 agenda so could be discussed by counsel, and the public comment. The Council voted on this in closing comments without public comment, or it being honest attempt 17th agenda. I find it ironic that our out large councilman did this. This is direct contradiction in what he said in a 2024 April meeting where he said the public should be involved in it. County Council and staff have duty to protect the public. It is painfully obvious in this county and all over Florida that development is causing serious flooding issues. How many lives have to be lost before this council stops catering to developers. If a developer threatens a lawsuit, fight back. No one has yet to challenge her hair is in the opposite direction. It is time we do so. Public Safety is more important than any developers land use rights. It is time we put the safety and profit driven developer that is destroying our quality of life in Volusia County. Thank you. (Applause). JEFFREY S BROWER: And John Nicholson, you are the last speaker. SPEAKER: John Nicholson, Daytona Beach. A couple of things. George I still love you. All right? You are a good guy. Secondly, a couple of months ago we talked about reefs and we were going to have a discussion on it and have been meeting on it. I don't know where were at with that. I would like some information in the public to know in advance so we can talk on it. Secondly, the Chamber of Commerce is having a leadership group look at Main St., Daytona Beach. I believe it is imperative that the County Council work with the city, we have a new city manager and he will work with the county. Our previous one, the county had a year long discussion on what should be done on A1A and beach street. (Unknown Name) was chosen to speak on it at all. And it was never brought up. But I think it's important, because again, it is imperative that it is our economic engine, and we do all we can to help that. They are looking at what could be done to help Main Street, by helping Main Street help the CRA. The CRA helps the finances for everybody. There was an article in the Orlando Sentinel, in Orange County encouraging the politicians to encourage their sales tax, half of which goes to the school system. The other half goes to infrastructure. We voted on that several years ago. There were flaws in what we presented, if you look at that article, there are several things that were brought up, in our discussion. Biggest one of which they don't trust the politicians to do what they plan on doing. It was so nebulous when you look at it. That the money could be spent for anything. I'm asking you to again think about Halfpenny, or one penny sales tax, for our infrastructure. It is not going to get any easier. And with the tourists paying 40%, it's like getting a discount. It really is. All of our cities need this. Even the locale will need it. At some point. So I'm asking you to look at the halfpenny sales tax, and think about bringing it back next year. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. Okay. Chris are you preparing to bring me more? No? Okay then we will move onto the first item of the day, item 1, approval of the agenda. Can I get a motion? DAVID SANTIAGO: I will second one for discussion. SPEAKER: For item 1 and that I do have some (indiscernible). JEFFREY S BROWER: This is for item 1. Okay. Before we vote we will call these two people up. I'm sorry, I missed the motion. DAVID SANTIAGO: He made the motion, I seconded. But I want to discuss G. JEFFREY S BROWER: Who made the motion? Vice chair Kent TROY KENT: This isn't – this is just approving our agenda. You threw me there. JEFFREY S BROWER: Troy Kent makes the motion, David Santiago makes a second to approve as presented. Before call for the vote we have two people that would like to speak. Joy Brinley, and you will be followed by Sherri Herring. SPEAKER: I think - joy Brinley, I think I kind of confused myself on when I put the item 1, but I him in attendance today because I heard the rural boundary item is back on the agenda. And I'm very interested in the County and the residents pursuing the information for this process. As it seems it would be a very good tool for us to help stop all of the development taking the wetlands in rural areas that are not meant for so much growth. We are in crisis mode in my opinion with all the flooding across the county that is causing so many building projects, where the houses and subdivisions are being built on higher ground, and causing flooding of people's homes and properties where they never had flooding before. The county need to step back and reevaluate why all of the building is going on. We need to thoroughly investigate the options that could be available through our rural boundary plan, and since this process takes a couple of years, to me it makes the most sense to be in the process sooner rather than later. Some people say the flooding is due to hundred year storms. But in my opinion that is not the case. We got 2 inches of rain on Sunday, and we have standing water in our backyard. I think that is partly due to us having quite a frame into timber. It is just normal rain, not a major storm. I asked that we move forward with the research and investigation of the role boundary amendment now. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you, Sherri Herring? SPEAKER: Thank you for giving me a minute to speak. I'm Sherri Herring from Deland Florida. And I just want to make sure that you excuse me keep this item on the agenda. Because I just found out about it. And I think it is really dynamic, and it is something that I am really interested in learning more about. And doing more about. I know a lot of people that are very excited about it. And they want to get excited now. So the idea of taking them up and pushing them back is harmful to people that are already getting involved. And I would really like to see it stay on and go forward. Immediately. You very much. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. Okay, we have a motion to approve the agenda as presented by vice chair Kent, second by Councilman Santiago. Any discussion? All in favor say I. Any opposed? In the agenda is approved. 5-0. Now, vice chair Kent, we come to the consents agenda. Item 2, does any council member have an item they would like to pull for comments? Or a vote? DAVID SANTIAGO: Item G for commenting question two staff. JEFFREY S BROWER: Okay, Mr. Santiago, item G. Don Dempsey? DON DEMPSEY: Item F for vote. JEFFREY S BROWER: Item F for a vote and Troy Kent? TROY KENT: I was also item F. Determine I make motion to approve the consent agenda absent items G and F. JEFFREY S BROWER: G was just four – TROY KENT: The reason I did that, his questions that he has, it could affect my votes. So that's why I did that. We are going to vote on G and F separately. JEFFREY S BROWER: Motion is made by vice chair Kent, to approve the consent agenda with the exclusion of G and F will be voted, which will be voted on and the second was by Matt Reinhart, correct? All in favor please say I? In the consent agenda absent G and F is approved five – zero. So we will begin with item F. DAVID SANTIAGO: I'm the winner today – sorry (Laughs). JEFFREY S BROWER: You are prepared I bet. JEFFREY S BROWER: I thought you were going to tell us about it a little bit. But I think Don did too. DON DEMPSEY: I can provide a quick overview. I can give you my question. It is my understanding that there is a little bit of discord and the boys and girls club of Volusia County. As a leadership role. And I was just wondering if we could just table that part of this vote into a later date, and have staff research more into what exactly is going on at the top, at the Boys and Girls Club of Volusia County. JEFFREY S BROWER: Okay, any other comments on that, vice chair Kent? TROY KENT: Quick question. It talks about you know, grants funding, but isn't that grant funding coming from the County of Volusia to these organizations? And then where is this money coming from within the County of Volusia? SPEAKER: This is a general fund contribution. It is one of the few – when we talk about services for vulnerable populations in our community. We got a good team that is on a good job of seeking out federal and state dollars. But in 2007, the Council of the time, there were some gaps in services in our committee. So they established as children and advisory board. Every five years, we go out to the community. And the individuals that are most vulnerable and ask where are the gaps, where can we help you to get to that level where you are financially stable and not dependent on government anymore. TROY KENT: And I will to say to the Council to the public, I do my homework, as does everybody appear I believe. And I am really good about sending these questions to George, this is one George I apologize, I did not send. But I got an email with I think all of the state. And I got the same question that Mr. Dempsey did about the Boys and Girls Club, because you get this email, and to hear about some friction, and I didn't read that anywhere. In the report. So, SPEAKER: We are well aware of that, if you send email we can explore. DAVID SANTIAGO: On Don's request, I am open to it. But I don't know Penny but he could answer the question you know, how detrimental would that be a short-term in the program. I want to make sure that the kids are not affected. I don't know if anybody can answer that. SPEAKER: Carmen Harper, my partner here is going to answer that question. SPEAKER: So they wouldn't be able to begin requesting reimbursement request, but the contrasts are retroactive to October 1. So while we couldn't reimburse them until the contract was executed, once the contract is executed, they could request reimbursement for services that started October 1. So if it went forward, they could receive reimbursement, if not by could be detrimental. DAVID SANTIAGO: So theoretically if they chose not to do certain contracts between now and in the approval, that could potentially happen and could affect the services? SPEAKER: That would be each individual agency's submission. DAVID SANTIAGO: I want to save my colleagues will say. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Think you Don for pulling this and vice chair Kent. I had that done as well, to pull F for the same reason, and maybe a further reason. But IM a no on this, unless we were able to pull the Boys and Girls Club. And you know what? That is hard to say, because everyone of us appear support the Boys and Girls Club. But I have received information not just from one email but from several, for people that are intimately involved in it. That support the program. But feel like there is some real issues at the top with the way money is handled. And I think since we are dealing with this fund money, it is taxpayer money, I think that we need to look at it closely, and make sure that we are not misappropriating. Again, Don, I know that had to be hard for you to put on there, because it makes us look like you are against Boys and Girls Club quite the opposite. We want the money spent properly. And not wasted. So, I am for pulling item F. I would just suggest, some months ago, a year ago, we stopped giving out money to nonprofits that would come for great groups I would ask for a thousand or $1500, we decided to take that out of the budget. Here we have several 2 1/2 million dollars of money going to nonprofits. All of them are good organizations. All of them have been looked at by this committee. And approved – I would like us to discuss that next year when we do our best to set our priorities for the year, and our goal planning. That this is a hard subject, but it needs to come up, and do we – are we doing more harm than good? The county budget – 1.6 billion school board budget, a little bit more budgets for all of the cities, maybe adds another billion. We are taking three to $4 billion out of our economy to help people that need help. Older people, children. My question is, are we creating more older people and children that need help by the amount of money that we pull out of the economy. I just don't want consequent is. But for today I am focused on this item F, I would like to see it pulled. Councilman Reinhart? MATT REINHART: I respect that. Definitely. Because a lot of things have been said – everybody has been paying attention to the news with respect to that. I was on the board until recently. It's just too many obligations that are going on. I had two things to say. This amount of money, does it affect negatively the center that is being rebuilt, that was destroyed as a result? So that does not affect that? Because okay – thank you for answering that. And I will defer to Mr. George Recktenwald. GEORGE RECKTENWALD: We are at a bit of a disadvantage, because neither one of us have seen any email. So we are really in the dark on this. I would suggest to remove just the Boys and Girls Club because that is what is in question. I think all the others – you've got things for seniors, we got things for people with disabilities. I mean it has nothing to do with the boys club, my suggestion would be if it's the Council desire to vote on the item, and just with the removal of the boys and girls club and we will bring that back as soon as we can once we get to the bottom of the issues. SPEAKER: And the team will act quickly. We do compliance monitoring, each year of his contract. So we will go on site and look at our funds and pull documents and see how our funds are being expended in his contract. We have the power over the contract we currently have. So we will act swiftly. SPEAKER: I think your team mentioned it is a reimbursement for certain services that they provide. Could you outline what was out. BRAD BURBAUGH: So they basically provide scholarships for their program. If you look at the number of children, most of these are some scholarships. So I think Susanne and I did the math and it was about $50 for a 12 week scholarship. So a lot of these organizations, when you get this multi-sector collaboration, when you sit down with the commuter and say what other needs as you sit down with these organizations whose mission is to do these things, we are providing a small amount and they are leveraging our dollars with their private donations and other grants that they have. So they are providing a scholarship I believe for 12 weeks at $50 for us. They are using their money, in addition. SPEAKER: This is for a summer program? BRAD BURBAUGH: Yes. SPEAKER: And it will technically be used again till next year? CARMEN HALL: The a multiple parts, the summer program is part of what is funded. Also after school planning, homework, (indiscernible) with pacesetter. We find the Boys and Girls Club have supper plans with different agencies including the YMCA, and (Lists names). BRAD BURBAUGH: So one of the things we have done is we have done a competitive bid we have a primary collaborator and we collaborate with of organizations, in that use developer to wheelhouse in order to have some collective measures to make sure they are making a difference. So it would affect just those five sobs and the Boys and Girls Cclub. SPEAKER: That is good that you share that. Because I did not know that. This funding does affect more than just one organization. To drill down on that primary stuff, I am assuming that they also get an administrative fee or something because they are the primary? Is that correct? BRAD BURBAUGH: Yes. CARMEN HALL: Correct. SPEAKER: And that competitive bid process, when did that get activated? BRAD BURBAUGH: This is the fifth year. When I say that we go out every five years we are in the process of doing that right now. So we will bring back to discounts away the community said the needs are, suggested areas, in terms of serving the community, so you will have impact on how those goals on the next round. DAVID SANTIAGO: I know fours of years ago we were not in this process. Do you know he was the effective conduct? BRAD BURBAUGH: This one had one. I did ask that question. SPEAKER: OK, that is all the questions I have right now. TROY KENT: If this was brought back, how soon until it could be? (indiscernible) may have not been received, those emails. BRAD BURBAUGH: I would… I do not think we can get it before two weeks of that would put us at the second meeting in November. TROY KENT: There are a couple of moving objects here with this item. I will just share this with the Council and the public here and those listening online. And Brad, you and your team, I think it is no secret. I am a big fan of what you do. And you get your marching orders from George, George get some from this counsel. That being said, when I look at this list, Boys and Girls Volusia County, before I get into that, the Commissioner from Deltona mentioned Work Out for Cancer. And I appreciate you talking about the numbers. $10,000, $5000 each given to specific individuals or about the cancer. I have my eyes open when I have looked at what the CEOs of different organizations get paid and it bothers me because I always wants the money that I give personally to have an impact with the individuals that I want the money to go to. I didn't want it to go to salaries. So when I look at those boys and girls club, 571,000, I would not round it, or I guess I am, Council on Aging, 181,000, Learning Collation forwarded and 81,000, (indiscernible) other than 87,000, Volusia Fire County Coalition, three hundred and 8000, Special Ccontracts, Early Learning Coalition 219,000. I will come back to the to what we determined in just a moment. Contingency applications, 50,000, Easter Seals Northeast Volusia County 20,000. Volusia Literacy Council 40,000. Summer Scholarships, various and (indiscernible) 400,000. I am going to go back to the special contracts to be determined. (indiscernible) of 86,000 which you know I am a big fan of because I have talked about it up here. In fact, my wife and I, listen, we are both public employees and we are not millionaires. We do not make a ton of money. That is not what we consider being rich in our lives. But every week, we pay for infant swim for our 11 month old baby grandson. Because it is the best gift we feel like we can give our grandchildren. We did it with Hudson and now we are doing it with (unknown name). And, we are paying for that. So it just Nicci Fagan, Church Council, is this something, you know, from a bigger standpoint, we have had this conversation I freak a few times here, is this our position as a government body, to take your tax dollars, and decides the winners and losers? If that our job? Some would say yes it is, you need to do that and you need to provide the services, I was would say it is not. And I am teaching on that line, gentlemen. So, I would like to know, it does not have to be now, how much of the money of two would have million dollars, how much is going to set obese? I know you are going to say none, but I am one get there is a way to vex that. BRAD BURBAUGH: We have that in our contract, that is a requirement. Some is involved with direct services. We look at that we do of a compliance monitoring and I would be remiss if I would not say that this is a contract for services. It is not a contribution. We have asked these individuals to deliver a surface for a price where they have leveraged their dollars with our dollars. This is a partnership to address some vulnerable needs in our community. It is not a contribution to a nonprofit. It is a contract for services that is competitively bid like any other services. TROY KENT: I can tell you are I am hesitant on the entire fig. But we would have to find out those answers B brought up by this counsel about the Boys and Girls Club before I could prove that. So however the motion goes, if that is not withdrawn and I am a no on all of it. Thank you. DAVID SANTIAGO: Thank you Mr chair. Can you explain the audit process that you referenced earlier? Just explain the details if you can. CARMEN HALL: So there are two parts of the process. One part is on a monthly basis, whenever we receive monthly reimbursement we complete an audit of every reimbursement request and they must have sufficient backup for us to actually pay the bill. We do not find any money, all of the services had to have occurred and they have to have documentation that they went to the proper clientele. So that is one portion completed on a monthly basis. And then depending on the agency and if the have been any red flags or anything like that we have the ability to go out at any time, and get the files on site if needed. That can include programmatic and also a financial look at the files. So we have that ability at any point in time, but normally every year, the last couple of years it has been about two years from most agencies that we have gone out, we can actually go on-site and look at their files if there is a need. DAVID SANTIAGO: So you did a audit more or less a year ago and every month would they submit the invoices? Common CARMEN HALL: Yes, every month with the invoices and depending on the agency, within the last two years. DAVID SANTIAGO: Have you seen any red flags coming out of your office? CARMEN HALL: No. Individuals also have the ability to monitor their contracts on a sub- basis, and if noted there were (indiscernible) technical assistance. DAVID SANTIAGO: That is all my comments. JEFFREY S. BROWER: OK, and we will go to public comments afterwards. And to what you said vice chair, I would like everyone to earn as much as they can. And to your point if the CEO was taking less money out of the charity, would they be able to then ask for less money of the taxpayers? I know our agreement say that it does not happen, but indirectly it still happens. I will just with I fit what I have had. I think we can pull just item F, adjust the Boys and Girls Club for further evaluation and approve the rest of it. I would be satisfied with that. And then we take this up, again, this entire idea, in our work next round of goals and priorities. Any other comments before I call Mary Bruno? And then we will need a motion. Mary, you have waited all this time. SPEAKER: Doctor Mary Bruno, board members, Councilman, I didn't come here, I will come to say thank you. Because this group and the services, I know in your heart you know that these unneeded services. (indiscernible) swimming lessons. These are kids that live in all kinds of areas where the parents barely have food to eat, let alone swimming lessons. So I mean, they are very very careful about targeting communities where those services are needed. And I am just picking on that one, since you made that comment. I fix that as we look at this, just finish that review process, the five-year, and many many meetings and coming along, you know, our service categories, (indiscernible) building about the elderly people to keep them in the home. Services for seniors, again tried to keep them in their homes. And of course youth development, I agree with your decision if that is the way it goes. Looking at the boys and girls club, we have worked with them for years and they were one of the first group that we ever funded. And they have done a phenomenal job. Basic needs, paying event of the people do not go homeless. I know the county does add (indiscernible) on some levels but it is those one-on-one services, that emergency need to maybe provide something like food. You know, I see the TV commercials all the time, pick between your medicine and your food. What may be that weekly bag of groceries is going to keep you healthy, with your medicine. And then of course our family support services that are central. So I really did just come here to say thank you because I have been on and off this border since 1990 something. I think it was different at that point. And I figured it is really really important that it is partially our responsibility. To help those who are in need. And I will be happy to answer any questions from my perspective. If you have any, I will be more than happy to do that. But I do want to fight you, I do want to thank you for looking into this. We have in the past on the exact same thing and I feel like it is day having sometimes. Showing that we are providing services, and not paying for the administrative cost. So, I can see some of that perspective, I think that the staff is very careful about assuring that we are providing services to those people in need the most. So I want to thank you. I do want to introduce our past chair, Joe. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. Vice Chair Kent, we have one more member of the public. (unknown name). Councilwoman from Deltona? SPEAKER: Thank you. You made a beautiful segue, yes we had an event where individuals gave money to charity but we also as public servants have a responsibility to make sure that these think that our social offended. I am the same commissioner who dusted publicly but I also believe in the city of Deltona there were issues and comments because I voted keep a $50,000 scholarship in funded and supported by the city and city taxpayers. Why? Because not everyone believes in helping people who are not directly related to them. People have a mentality. "It is my money, I ended, why should I give as well?" We could go all day on that. "Why do I contribute to ATA accessibility when I not disabled? Why do I contribute to this when I noted this? Why do I do this if I am not that?" Because we are a community, that is why. As elected bodies we have a responsibility to make sure that these social programs, these social Points, are taken care of and funded. Now to pull it aside and be microscopic, I understand because we have a fiscal responsibility to our constituents also. But wouldn't it be great if we use that same microscope when we talk about in terms of cost and money to our constituents, that we look at developers the same way as we do social programs that we have? Because every time I see social programs coming up, it gets nitpicked. Every time. Any social program where you might have to pay for something that you do not participate in, and I am like… As an elected official, just kind of over it. If we are going to nitpick, we need to do it in equal measure. We need to have the same clear glasses on. So with that being said, I support this as a taxpayer. I am a county taxpayer also. I support this. Pulling it aside to analyse is one thing. But I see a pattern of this happening and it is a really not fair. We need to examine every finger that the taxpayers and if this These taxpayers out here are paying for flooding. Caused by irresponsible development. (Applause) SPEAKER: I hear them talk about our responsibilities and that is not brought up. And we must look at that with that same lens we have just picked apart. So I just want to put that out there for us to think about, because we are a community. Thank you. (Applause) TROY KENT: One of the reasons I love this form of government is right there. We get to listen to people who are passionate about figs. On the other hand it blows my mother to come up here and go off at the developers like they are the bad bogeyman! They are the ones who created all the problems! I know some of these are developers, and some of them are… Listen, if the chairman is not going to do it, I will just say it. We do not allow yelling from the crowd, I do not interrupt you, you do not interrupt me. It is basic courtesy of these meetings. We know developers who live in this community right here and they love that community. And they are not the bogeyman that you hear from some people who get up here and want to rail about them. Is it because some of them are successful? If that is the case, then I guess we could talk about lawyers and doctors and small businesses that make a ton of money. I am happy for those individuals. I made the choice that I made. My wife made the choices she makes to have the careers that we have. We decided to beat vegetable able to be home with our kids. That was our trucks. But to come up and a against a certain group, and if you got up and did it against doctors, I would be saying the exact same thing. Because they build offices. They develop. They might not to be the developer, but, they are paying the developer to build their office on that land, so that is that. But then that is the second piece for me which is how much is enough? This is just $12.5 million. $1.6 billion budget. Some would say that is not a lot of money. It is a tremendous amount of money to a guy like me. 2 1/2 million dollars is a lot of money. Probably more than I will make in my lifetime. Quite honestly! So, when you say enough is enough? When do you say we are tapped out? When do you have an equitable playing field, when you say we are going to quit picking winners and losers, and we are going to give this money back to arrested? And then you decide who you are going to give the money to. I do not want a government money taking my hard-earned money, because I work for every penny I have. I do not want a government body taking my money and then choosing who to give it to. Let me do that. I am a grown man. I live in America. I make my own money. The government taxes it enough. Let me decide who I want to support. Don't, a group of people, grabbed my money and run with it and pixels winners and losers. Because there are only a few on this list. I mean, we could really do a lot more! Just something difficult. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK. I don't see anyone else who wants to speak. Do we have a motion on Item F? We pulled it for a vote and we cannot vote on it without a motion. We either have to approve it as is, or approve it with the exclusion of one of the items – what are your wishes? TROY KENT: I will make the motion for more discussion if needed by the selected body. Motion to approve minus the Boys and Girls Club of Volusia Flagler counties in the amount of 571,000 – is that the right amount? JEFFREY S BROWER: Did you ask Brad? OK, I didn't hear it. (Laughs) That's a good sign. (Laughs) OK, we have a motion on the table to approve Item F with the exclusion of the line Item for the Boys and Girls Club of Volusia Flagler in the amount of 571,724, which would come back as soon as possible from staff investigating the concerns about money management and whatever else it might be. Is that an OK statement? Is there a second? If there is not a second, the Item dies. SPEAKER: In the absence of a motion, the Item would not be approved. JEFFREY S BROWER: That's correct. The whole thing dies. Matt Reinhart? MATT REINHART: If the second is not made, the motion dies and it's just eliminated? SPEAKER: Until it's brought up again. MATT REINHART: Until it's brought up again? I will second. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. So, we have a second on the motion, for discussion, Councilman Santiago. DAVID SANTIAGO: Thank you, Mr Chair. A lot of good comments but I've also discussed this in the past, just in general role of Government, that I think it's still healthy and we should always have this conversation. However, I will not support this motion because I hate to operate under accusations and generalities, or someone accusing someone without any due process. I could have possibly gotten over that feeling, but when I learned that there were potentially five other organizations that benefit from that funding, and not knowing whether or not they would have to bow back their own services that we contract them to do during the duration of this coming back, it bothers me that others may pay the price for some good services that they are providing for the community, again, that we have contracted them to do. So, based on those feelings, I don't know the details or anything and I will add this: I'm comfortable with the line of questioning and the answers that I received from staff on the auditing. They said that they audited them monthly on their invoicing and they audit them manually, or they did within the last year approximately. Not to say that there's nothing there, but I don't have enough facts to deny those other five organizations at this point. Just people making accusations, true or not, I struggle with it. And we do have some checks and balances with staff. Just want to put it out there why I will be voting no. JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman Reinhart? MATT REINHART: I guess what scares me is I believe in the Boys and Girls Club. I believe what it stands for and what it does in the community. I was a recipient. One of the reasons why my parents put me in it when I was younger, or groups just like that. My fear is if we don't bring this back, they are the losers. If you want to talk about winners and losers, those kids will be the losers. I have issue with that. Therefore, that's why I said I don't think the others are left off the table. My understanding of the motion was that the other ones are approved and we are just eliminating the Boys and Girls Club. DAVID SANTIAGO: Can I answer that? JEFFREY S BROWER: You can answer it but I think he stated it correctly. DAVID SANTIAGO: That's not my understanding from staff explanation. The Boys and Girls Club under this contract operates as the main facilitator of the contracts, which dispenses money for other programs and five other organizations. BRAD BURBAUGH: That is correct. They are the primary and we contract with them for services as well as five other subs. MATT REINHART: If approved, if we didn't approve the Boys and Girls Club, the other ones listed, the Council on aging, early learning coalition, Easter Seals, coalition for the homeless, those would not get their primary funding? (Multiple speakers) GEORGE RECKTENWALD: You do not see the subgroups underneath the Boys and Girls Club. So, each of these themselves could be the Boys and Girls Club. They are the major orc primaries. Do not get that confused. If you pull it the Boys and Girls Club, the ones that fall under them would have to wait. But these others could go forward if you were to go forward. And we will bring back, the intent is, whatever doesn't make it today, we will go investigate the issue and bring it back. MATT REINHART: As long as this motion passes connect if it doesn't pass, there is no investigation, Boys and Girls Club and their subgroups are off the table, correct? GEORGE RECKTENWALD: Say that again? MATT REINHART: If we do not approve this motion, this vote fails. The Boys and Girls Club does not receive any funding, nor does any other groups that fall below it. Not the ones I mentioned, forget about that. GEORGE RECKTENWALD: The way you've – it doesn't necessarily say that. The way the motion that I take it is, you would pass all the others but this one, and we will go back. And if that fails, we will have to go back to the drawing Board and bring them all back apparently. The need is still out there. DAVID SANTIAGO: Or another motion could be made. MATT REINHART: That is clear as mud right now. DAVID SANTIAGO: That's why I struggle with it right now, Mr Reinhart. If you are done with your comment? MATT REINHART: Yes, I am. DAVID SANTIAGO: My attempt with my commentary was to vote no on the motion as it stands, but with the intent to bring the motion certainly right after that to approve all of them. And then, I'm sure staff is still going to making phone calls to do their due diligence based on the commentary. Correct me if I'm wrong: if, when you do your auditing, which I think should happen right away, if you find anything that is alarming to us, you can stop the funding right away, correct? BRAD BURBAUGH: Yes, if it's completely alarming and egregious, yes, we would do that. There's three categories of comments that we provide on these audits. One is a finding, which is the worst. If we had an egregious finding and we would certainly notify leadership in the chain of command to address those concerns. One is a comment and the last one is a concern. It's kind of the levels of finding real programmatic issues that need to be fixed ASAP. DAVID SANTIAGO: I like the due process and that we have the checks and balances to protect the taxpayers, and then the argument, the question that needs to be done or up for further debate: what role do we play in everything? What we have before us, I would vote against the motion and have a follow-up motion. I entrust staff to dig into this and find the facts. I do not like allegations because I don't know what's going on. I do not feel like we should hold back five other potential organizations that we have contracted. Thank you Mr Chair for the extra time. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. I just want to restate the motion because it sounds confusing. It didn't sound that confusing to me when you made it. You were going to do that? TROY KENT: I heard clear as mud and I was going to clear everything up. (Laughter) TROY KENT: I thought it was pretty straightforward, Chairman but if you don't mind? To the Council: my motion, because there were some questions about one specific group was to take that group out of it, $571,000. So, that comes out. That was my motion. Everything else: Council on aging, Easter Seals, everything else gets approved right now. And then staff, because sitting up here, I sent them the email. "Here you go, FYI," so that they can look into it and then it will come back to us. Everything else gets approved right now because if you take that gamble, a vote no on that, and then a new motion is made to approve it all, you might get three that say no today and then we are in a little bit more of a pickle, which is why I did what I did. Even though I brought up the question of really what is Government's role in that because we all have our own individual thoughts on it, and I do think it's something we have discussed before, and maybe we need to have another healthy discussion about it again. But, today it solves that problem for everybody else, except for the one group. And staff said that they will expeditiously look into that email, look into any issues going on with the Boys and Girls Club, and bring that back to us. That's why he made the motion the way that I did. JEFFREY S BROWER: That was clear but it was really long (Laughs). It does clear it up. It's as simple as everything is approved, except the Boys and Girls Club, which comes back. Councilman Reinhart? MATT REINHART: I did understand that part, for full disclosure. The part I was missing was the fact that it was coming back. Or, the fact that there was an intended motion. I didn't hear Doctor Burbach shaking his head. Thank you for clearing that up. JEFFREY S BROWER: No, I'm done. Councilman Santiago? DAVID SANTIAGO: I understood the motion and that's why I went down the route that I went to. I loved it, Troy, it's fun to have a debate at the same time. I will highlight and kind of repeat briefly that our staff, there's five other organizations, they named them briefly but there are five others that will be cut off at this point better under their umbrella. Can you name them? CARMEN HALL: They have subcontracts with the YMCA, the house next door, pay center for girls in Easter Seals. DAVID SANTIAGO: What do each of them do? CARMEN HALL: The house next door has an after school homework club and a team program. Pace center for girls has leadership intervention and Easter Seals is an alternate program in training. DAVID SANTIAGO: Repetitive question. If we were to approve this budget as proposed, the entire thing, you will be able to go in and start auditing the process and look into any discrepancies? And if you find any findings that are egregious, you can immediately stop the funding, is that correct? BRAD BURBAUGH: Yes, sir. This is the joy of having a great team. October 9 is our scheduled visit to the Boys and Girls Club. I've arranged it as we are standing here today. DAVID SANTIAGO: That's why I'm comfortable with it. Thank you. TROY KENT: It's a brilliant question and I'm glad you asked it. Why the middleman? You know? Why give $571,724 to the Boys and Girls Club so that they can then subcontract with other groups? I mean, we already have the early learning coalition and they are already on here, Easter Seals is already here, I'd be happy to approve them but now it feels like this just got muddier for me because we are now giving money to a group who is going to subcontract it out to another group? How do I really know now that the taxpayer dollars are going where they should be going because now we've got more hands in the mix? BRAD BURBAUGH: They are all monitored for compliance. Just the process that we explained to you that we do to the primaries, the primaries do to the subs, and we will look at that when we go to the visits as well. TROY KENT: Do they all have subs? All of them? BRAD BURBAUGH: All of the five primaries do. The reason why we do that is a lot of organizations and a lot of counties will just give onesies or twosies. We will have a Nonprofit come up asking for money. This forces our Nonprofits to work together. So rather than working in silos, they have collected measures that they are all doing in youth development, so we know that we are making a difference in this area. Rather than doing that, it forces them to work together to collaboratively solve this issue in our community. So, that's one. Number two, we do it from a selfish standpoint, to pass the monitoring and compliance from our team, from monitoring 25, to monitoring five. We, as a portion of the contract, say that you will monitor and do compliance. We give them our checklists and they use that information. We will look at that data when we monitor and do a compliance visit for the primaries. TROY KENT: Thank you, and I want to be respectful when I say this. A clever way to present this is this makes them work together but it does not solve the problem in my head, right now today, about there is a middleman. Any time I am paying somebody to do work at my house and that is a subcontractor, I do not see that I am getting the best detail. Maybe I could have just gone to the subcontractor myself, and I am very appreciative of your answer because I believe that you believe it. And that is good for B. Because I am… I have a lot of respect for you. That is all. JEFFREY S BROWER: Before I called the motion, I just want to make it clear what we are voting on. We are accepting the package except for the Boys and Girls Club. It was stated that we are cutting them off, we are not. We are delaying them so we can investigate whether county tax dollars a appropriately spent on this line item. So we are deleting one a line item and we will come back. The that is developed. Do you want to pass the rest of the package, and delay the Boys and Girls Club that we all want to support and one cleanly and properly, that we will come back and come back to vote on that. You did not have a time set for that. (indiscernible). BRAD BURBAUGH: Yes, but we would do it posthaste. JEFFREY S BROWER: If there is no other discussion I am going to ask Karissa to call the roll. KARISSA GREEN: (Roll Call) JEFFREY S BROWER: The motion carries 4-1, and the Boys and Girls Club can come back for consideration. Item G was pulled for comment. DAVID SANTIAGO: Yes, thank you, Mr chair. TROY KENT: I pulled it instead of a vote, because depending on what I hear from Stephen and Councilman Santiago will help me make up my mind. SPEAKER: (indiscernible) if other up to that, I thought I read there that one of the main comments from them but having the capability or a place to facilitate that safe change program. Is that correct? SPEAKER: Yes, that is kind of the theme. Lack of space to create the course, lack of student availability, and (indiscernible) so if you are a private charter you can go to the program. DAVID SANTIAGO: Thus the funding that we go, but get this from the state? SPEAKER: It is five dollars on every traffic ticket. That is written in this county. SPEAKER: What are you contribute in? SPEAKER: I have not got a ticket in a long-term. (Laughs) But we didn't approve the Sheriff's budget in the last meeting, so we should be good. Sorry, I lost my train of thought… As far as the funding, I know there is a state law that was passed, and does the funding; I do not recall this, because I was not here when we voted on this, but I do not for call Wever under we can use some of these funding to work with some of these schools to find solutions to that problem? BRAD BURBAUGH: It has to be direct instruction. So the law would have to be expanded. Yes sir. DAVID SANTIAGO: Thank you for that. And I just want to say it is the Doris Slosberg Driver Education Program. I had the privilege to know her father, I served with him and also her sister in the legislature. They are very passionate about this issue. She passed from a car accident, and I am happy to continue to support the program. Her father is a good man. JEFFREY S BROWER: Any other questions for staff? Any comments? Motion to approve. DAVID SANTIAGO: A second. JEFFREY S BROWER: We have a motion to approve form the chairman and a second from David Santiago. All in favour, say aye? It is passed 1:0. Good call these two people up, there were two members of the public who wanted to speak unto items that I did not receive or didn't see it before we called the vote. On Item K, Susie. Are you still here? SPEAKER: Hello counsel. That was some back-and-forth. Glad you got it resolved. I am here to fight especially Councilman Kent, for his work in two legal the loop project. And I am a member of the (indiscernible) chapter of the Florida native plant society but I am not really representing them. I am representing myself as a member and I am very grateful that you are doing that and I hope that we can bring this to a countywide conclusion. I fought I would meet the definition of a native plant a lot of people do not know and a lot of people might be listening. I am sorry, I am from (indiscernible) and native plant is a plant which has evolved naturally in the civic ecosystem over thousands of years but human introduction. Native plants are a vital part of the balance in nature and provide many benefits to the environment and to people. They support local wildlife, they conserve water, to protect the soil, they are easy to grow, and they are very beautiful. So I hope that we can continue to continue disc initiative. I also want to thank names: and (unknown name) who were involved in this project. JEFFREY S BROWER: The second we had was for Item N. Proportionate fair share. That was with Cindy? Are you still here? SPEAKER: Thank you, I am Cindy from New Smyrna Beach. I had a chance to speak with many of you, a little history, but I (indiscernible) the packet you will get at the end of the meeting. Just a little refresher. Families living in the New Smyrna area have had property since the late 60s, and unfortunately, I found out after (indiscernible) that my family property was (indiscernible). And unfortunately I learned that the county and the (indiscernible) could not find a solution to the floodwater and I retained water for over a year. What I am going to receive is a picture of my property after 50 loads and it was a picture taken a day after September 14 of this year. So I was looking, as some of the things that on the agenda, and I agree with some of the things or said today. Predatory development, I fought these were a couple of odd statements. And I agree with the boundary, the boundary that is going on the agenda today. However, it is not dormant on the ballot until 2026. This is something we need immediately. There it is! That is my front yard after 15 loads of fill dirt. This is… I did some little scribbles on here so you can actually get a view of direction, whether it is most Southeast or West. This happens to be a county maintained vote. The solution that was suggested by my neighbourhood right there was that we donate parts of our property for the county to maintain. The county did come in and try to do a short little bone to redirect the water, and all it did was fill right back into my front yard. And we lived with that water from Ian for an entire year. 3 feet of water over my property. So when I say our county is drowning I needed. The value of our properties and our houses are going down. So when we are here talking about flooding that should be your first priority. To work with municipalities to get this taken care of. Do not let the (indiscernible) company come in here and destroy any more of our wetlands. That is the only filter we have. Niches and filters. So please do something. We are not up your just wasting our breath. Thank you for the time. SPEAKER: Arleen Redmond-Skille Retirement Recognition. 26 years of service! SPEAKER: I would like to recognize Detective Arleen Redmond-Skille, for their time here. With Volusia County. She actually began her career in 1989 as a corrections officer. A police officer, and transition to fire services. She started as a volunteer before being hired on in April 1998. Shortly after coming on, we had a Wever event here in Volusia County with the fires of 1998, she was right out there on the front lines, and from that point she has advanced her career, she has been on the technical rescue team, she has been promoted to divide of the tenant 2001. She has been on many taskforces and on part of many diplomas which we will talk about later. And she has always been a dedicated community person. She has a stronger bonds in her organization, and I just want to thank her for how many years and really wish you luck in your retirement. And I will also point out she has a (indiscernible) a very valuable member of another area here in Volusia County. So with that, we wanted to hand it over to chief Joe King and (indiscernible). JOE KING: Briefly I just want to add, 30 years in public safety. What I want to add is what else he brings to the department, and I say this all the time jokingly. And I call her Arlene because we have been friends for many years. She brings an energy to the job every day I will go by her station and I will look at her and I will say I didn't know how you do it. I am tired. And she is still going all day long. On top of that, that energy, she makes a job fund that at times we do (indiscernible). There's probably here people standing behind me shaking their head, yes. She could still do this job for another 10 years. I will tell you that her compassion to run calls and help people, and to her leadership to her crew is amazing. I know the lieutenants at station 13 will probably be upset because they have a lot more work to do now because they will be missing a vital part, but I want to wish you luck in your future. And I wish Trent luck trying to keep up with the, but congratulations! (Applause) SPEAKER: Thank you. Any questions? (Laughs) Just kidding. I want to thank you all for letting me serve this community for 30 years and I appreciate corrections and police for helping me. JEFFREY S BROWER: You may have some questions. Councilman Reinhart? MATT REINHART: I've had the absolute pleasure, and I say that word with most compassion, the absolute pleasure working with Arleen for years. Whether be corrections, or the fact that she was our inspector for our fire drills – brutal! Just kidding. Code red. Anyways, always handling every situation with a smile. The couple pictures where you are not, I hang onto those because there's not many out there. She's always smiling and comes off with such a positive attitude. That will be missed, but remembered. So, thank you for your service. I appreciate you, as do the citizens of Volusia County, thank you so much. (Applause) JEFFREY S BROWER: I just wanted to add that we do not know each other well, but I know what it's like to work in Emergency Services, I've never worked with fire but they are all similar in that your life could become pretty common times. You could be polishing a truck, cleaning up and preparing a meal, and then not in a instant in your life changes. Your life is in danger as you go out to serve others. Volusia County's fire department does it as good as anybody else, and probably better. I am so proud of our fire department and how they serve us. You do so many different things. For somebody to last 26 years in a job that takes that much of a toll on your body, the stress, you have all my respect. So, congratulations for that time served and I wish you all the best in your retirement. I bet you will come back. (Laughs) SPEAKER: Thank you, appreciate it. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. (Applause) JEFFREY S BROWER: Is Pat here for pictures? You are here for pictures, OK. You have to come back. SPEAKER: They want pictures. (Applause) JEFFREY S BROWER: OK, before she leaves the room we will call for a vote to see if we accept her retirement. MATT REINHART: Motion to approve. JEFFREY S BROWER: Is there a second? TROY KENT: Second. JEFFREY S BROWER: All in favor say aye. Any opposed? And you are retired. OK, that brings us to Item 4, Towing Fees and Ordinance 2024-25, updating the Towing Fees. Jeaniene Jennings, will you be presenting this? JEANIENE JENNINGS: Yes. JEFFREY S BROWER: More or less? JEANIENE JENNINGS: Yes. Good morning! Jeaniene Jennings, director of business services. And I am going to kind of lead the discussion on the new towing rates that we are going to discuss and vote on. Included in that is also resolution in ordinance change. If this is approved, we will approve everything at one time. Maybe. There we go. So, since our meeting in June, we have met with the tow operators twice. We had Amanda and John and they represented the tow industry and ongoing discussions with us. We also met and had included the Sheriff's Department throughout the discussions. And we took a look at all the pricing. We updated some pricing. And across the Board, we did increase all of the pricing – not to the point of Flagler County. We looked at an average of areas around us. We added some additional services that we did see had been added in several counties that are not on this sheet because they have been adding things as they go along, but these are services that they are currently not being paid for now that really do impact some of the specialized work that they do. So, we added five services there. We also put in an ordinance for CPI review to keep in line with pricing. This does not affect the current contract with the Sheriff's Department. That will go out for bid in 2025. Like I said, included is the ordinance and resolution, also a business impact analysis was completed by legal, and also as requested by the state, we have a towing website that is up and we will update all the rates if approved. As we left the meeting, we feel like we have come to a great compromise with the towing companies and everybody is on the same page. I don't think – I think we just came to a very happy medium of something we all felt was fair. Any questions? JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman Santiago? DAVID SANTIAGO: Thank you Mr Chair. A couple questions. From my recollection, when we have this before us the last time, we shared some concerns around the areas of additional fees that were added on, that were new fees. Is that correct? JEANIENE JENNINGS: I think what you may be talking about is the ministry to the that was part of the contract? DAVID SANTIAGO: I remember that there were some concerns with some additional new things that popped up that we had not discussed in the past in the previous contracts. We said we would send it back but the staff did a good job here. I like where you landed in the averages, but I have some questions in the yellow area. Do we have that up there? JEFFREY S BROWER: Page 2. DAVID SANTIAGO: 0402. KARISSA GREEN: Just give her one moment. DAVID SANTIAGO: I want to make sure we vet these out clearly so that the public and the Council has a clear understanding of what we are proving here. JEFFREY S BROWER: There it is. Can you read that? DAVID SANTIAGO: We will start with the first one. Bobcat, skid steer, per our $300. According to this chart- JEANIENE JENNINGS: I'm sorry. These were things we added at the last meeting that they had brought forward to us and we did do some research. Many of the surrounding counties, we did pull the prices that they were using in Flagler Lake, St. John's, all hedges added all of those additional services. DAVID SANTIAGO: At what price point? JEANIENE JENNINGS: Much higher than that. This was the average of those three. DAVID SANTIAGO: Thank you for answering that. I think this makes sense, it's a per bag fee, and that's if something like oil or fluid spills. Maintenance is interesting for me. Hundred and $35 an hour. JEANIENE JENNINGS: That again was an average of what we looked out across the Board. DAVID SANTIAGO: What does it do? JEANIENE JENNINGS: If they have an accident and they've got to bring people out and stage it, they are bringing in additional personnel or hiring additional personnel... Am I correct? DAVID SANTIAGO: It's up to the Chair. JEFFREY S BROWER: Do you have something to add to the conversation? John Rogers? You can both come up. You may get called on here. Smile, John. (Laughter) SPEAKER: Good morning, counsel and thank you for the opportunity. Maintenance and traffic MOT. There is a Federal law that says if we are out there on the interstate, past one hour, we have to set up an maintenance of traffic to protect our employees. So therefore, we had to buy the equipment, the monitoring arrow board, we had to send her guys and girls to school to learn how to do maintenance of traffic. A lot of times, the state contractor leaves and they go to another accident. So, we have to safeguard our workers on the side of the road, just like you guys have to do with your men and women on the side of the road, that's what maintains traffic. 135 an hour is for everything. That's to get somebody out of bed at 3 o'clock in the morning, call them in, set the cones up, set the signs up, set everything up, and dodge traffic that's going by you at 100 miles an hour. No disregard for move over law or anything. DAVID SANTIAGO: Is that a flat fee or per employee? It's for the incident? I wasn't sure about that. Thank you for answering them. SPEAKER: Per hour. That is what it is. DAVID SANTIAGO: I thought it was per employee and that's why I was concerned. Like, if you had three employees out there. Each? As a follow-up to that, who determines whether that part, the service that's needed on the incident, how does that come about? SPEAKER: The incident determines it. When you get out there and you see a major motor vehicle accident, you know you will have to offload this amount. Like during a hurricane, we had a semi-break into on the 95. It was loaded with high dollar wine. We had to go out there. DAVID SANTIAGO: did any of the bottle survive? SPEAKER: All but two pallets. We had to go out there with two skid steers and an escalator to pull it apart. We had to offload it, shrinkwrap it, and offload on to another trailer while the wind was blowing. We had to set up our maintenance of traffic because the state contractor said they were leaving. "We are out of here. We are gone." And so the troopers said we had to set MOT up. The incident out there on the highway decides whether we have to set it up or not. DAVID SANTIAGO: Awesome. That's helping me quite a bit. SPEAKER: It's also requirement by FDOT for the wrist requirement. DAVID SANTIAGO: What a simple fender bender, would that initiate a MOT? SPEAKER: No, sir. DAVID SANTIAGO: I get that. You certainly would need that. I want to make sure I'm good. What is a rotator 50 ton? (Multiple speakers) SPEAKER: Go ahead. DAVID SANTIAGO: I see a price for $1300. SPEAKER: 1300 per hour. DAVID SANTIAGO: Minimum two hours. So, it's 2600? SPEAKER: It's a mobile crane with five or six axles and it goes out there, you can extend the boom out over the guard rail, and you can set up a loaded tractor-trailer in a matter of minutes as opposed to hours. DAVID SANTIAGO: That's the big boy. One follow-up question to that: since we are adding it now into this agreement, how have you been doing this before this? SPEAKER: My hair is getting like yours! We went from $40 thousand per year paying for insurance to 500,000. So, you know, by the grace of God, when you pay everybody and you pay everything. That is not that much being left on the bone. And that is why we are here. DAVID SANTIAGO: I think this is important to vent out. And I think you have answered my concerns. I just wanted to know where I am coming from. I want to make sure that the consumer has some level of protections, not that you would do this. But we have to make policies to apply to everyone. I want to make sure that the consumer has protection that you are not going to for lack of a better term get couched. Were all of these fees can come into play, and now someone had an accident and you oldest toll company six or seven or $10,000. The catastrophic stuff, big deal. But I want to know where you are coming from. I want you to (indiscernible). I see you shaking her head, why are you shaking her head yes. JEANIENE JENNINGS: Actually that was part of our discussion because the ordinance you are looking at, I was shares department may not ever use any of the new stuff added. They may, but they may never. But because we set the ordinance at everybody else uses here, we set the Vapes, Florida Highway Patrol uses our web aches and the use hours, and what we were trying to avoid is those hi things that we do not have any Vapes on, coming back later as a potential line item, of something that is not contractual, and then trying to negotiate it after the fact. Because I think everybody… If something happens and it is not in the contract, you see it here, they're going to try to get some kind of reimbursement for it. So that is why we are trying to take those items that were very important to them so they would have to go back to another agency and try to get some type of reimbursement for trying to set a a ton that is when we look at the other ones and came right in the middle. DAVID SANTIAGO: I think this appealing my last question. What we cost as a member of the public have if somebody, not John, but if somebody shows up with two cars on the side of the road, or whatever, and he brings out the big boy. That person brings out the big boy and it is $2600 minimum based on this audit. And the big boy was not really needed. What we cost as a member of the public have, if that scenario were to play out? SPEAKER: They have a couple of recourses. One, they can call Mr George up, and (indiscernible). And number two, they could go put a… Post a bond, (indiscernible), the owner of the insurance company, whoever has a vested interest in that automobile, and then, you have to have a hearing in front of a judge. And the judge is going to determine whether or not you are doing what you are supposed to be doing, or not. So there is because, the Florida Department of agriculture and key services. And they can say hey, we feel as if Mr Reinhardt's service record is not right. And then, they investigate and they come out with vesting powers. But none of us are going to bring up a one million-dollar truck unless we have Paul your approval. Most of the time the Highway Patrol will say we have one over the guard available because one down (indiscernible), and we need to rotate it. They will call for it and they will ask for it. The Florida Department of Agriculture will say we have to rotate it out here on the Eiffel at the 108. SPEAKER: I see our County Attorney has the button pressed. SPEAKER: With all due respect, 60 precent of time it gets paid out. The other 40% we do not. So, it is a crapshoot for us. So if somebody has a $1000 car, and then $2600 bill, they say to take the car! It is totalled anyway. DAVID SANTIAGO: I could see your hair (indiscernible) when you said that. I was just wondering if he wanted to answer to something I was saying. JEFFREY S BROWER: (indiscernible) Mr Kent? TROY KENT: 40% of the time you get paid at 60% you do not. What is your percentage roundabout of people who call got towed, they do not have the money to get it out, 30 days goes by, I think that is what it is, I need to get some information… SPEAKER: 37. TROY KENT: For 30 days and the total would be $1200 that the obit they do not have the $1200 and they cannot get the call. What do you do with the car? SPEAKER: We had 12 days ago that did not have the money of the weekend. We do not want to be known as the person who took the fellows car. We have got to also get paid. (indiscernible) private enterprise. Every one goes on that plasticine is getting paid. (indiscernible) fire department is getting paid, EMS is getting paid, your sheriff is getting paid, (indiscernible) transportation at Highway control. SPEAKER: I appreciate all of that and wanted you to answer the question and pushing that you did that for that individual but what do you do with those cars, and people unlike "I cannot pay? Because the quote because you are private, you cannot just give it away. SPEAKER: You have two options. You get a certificate of destruction and you drink it, or you file for entitlement and then (indiscernible) and then you can sell it. TROY KENT: How often does that happen? SPEAKER: 40% of the time. (indiscernible) 30 per month. TROY KENT: The chairman, I just want to say that I appreciate staff's work on this. I appreciate you coming in as many times as you did because I am with the agreement that this is not a charity, this is a business that you are a running, and you should get paid for your services. I am glad that staff did not recommend the flat cut rates from Flagler because I would be a hard to know on that and I think you are mentioned it was 20 or 30 years since you had an increase. I get the ask, but my concern, counsel, is this. We all make decisions. I am not advocating for people making bad decisions but that person who is driving the car without insurance or suspended license, and they get pulled over and they get told, as they should, I would say those people probably do not have the resources that they need to have insurance. (indiscernible) because it showed it with zero claims and civil tickets. I am not going to do that right now. But I just going to say this could be you! And you know, you are making a decision, about in children's or food or medical or whatever, and then you are in a situation, now, but this is every day. Increasing and almost compounded. Does other people, and I think we have communities in Volusia County where this is going to harm people more, neighbourhoods where it is going to harm people more, I am supporting the increase that you have. Do not get me wrong with that. But I just want to share with you the concern that I have if we were to go to a flat county of eight. I think that is wildly inappropriate. Those rates are unfair, and that is too much meat on that bone. In my opinion. So, I kind of went from questions to chat a little bit. And you did not pick me down for it. But, I am OK with what has been preserved. JEFFREY S BROWER: Deputy County Attorney Russ Brown? RUSS BROWN: Just to (indiscernible) as was alluded to. You worked on the website that requires a state statute and there was a consumer complete paragraph in therefore excessive fees and alleged about the practices that anybody can go through our code enforcement office to do an investigation. If there are any instances of fraud or anything we would prefer that to the chair's office. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you very much. And Mr Santiago, is there a motion in our future? DAVID SANTIAGO: Yes. SPEAKER: Members, county staff, I just want to… I am here today on behalf of all the towing companies in our area to express our gratitude for the raise that is proposed. It is the first one since 2001, it is a long-overdue adjustment, and we truly appreciate to the Council recognition of our vital role we play in public safety, opening up the roadways and community service. I would like to thank our County Manager George, Miss Jeaniene, members of her staff, I will legal team here at the County, and the county commission counsel. For that dedication and support throughout this process. We did have several meetings, and you know, I think that staff did a great job of coming up with a compromise as was said earlier. And your acknowledgement of the challenges that we face a daily with the rising cost of maintaining our services means a great deal to us. This vase will help us to continue to provide safe, efficient and prompt service to the community. Keeping the roadways clear and helping residents in the time of need. So on the half of the top in community, I would like to thank this counsel for your consideration of this support. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. John Nicholson? SPEAKER: John Nicholson, Daytona Beach side. As you know, my issue is the continuation, 20 years without a raise. I am glad that you added this and I wish that you would do that for everything. Especially in this day and age, 20 years without a vase is ridiculous. So that we do not do this over and over again please continue doing it for everything. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. No other comments. I will call for the vote to approve the updated token fees. And alternates 2024 2025, all in favour say I? Any opposed? The motion carries 5:0. Thank you very much. That brings us to item 5, discussion regarding overdose data. Harm reduction strategies and Narcan. BRAD BURBAUGH: Good morning members of the Council, community services Director. At the Council meeting on July 16, 2024, a motion was made to direct staff to gather overdose data and opportunities for Naloxone distribution in Falluja County. This is basically Narcan, and it blocks the effect of opioids in the brain and distorted briefing. As you know the medical examiner came to us previously talking about fentanyl and how it is ravaging our community. Fed now is an opium. So you said we should explain to individuals who use or abuse substances that you should assume that there is a fentanyl in everything that you are ingesting, including marijuana. So what we did at the request of counterman involvement as we have provided and developed a layer, a GIS layer that they are going to pull up for me in just a second, to look at some of the data. So we have this snapshot of the layer and I think this layer can be used as a were partners continue to access the opioid dollars that we will discuss as part of the next agenda item to see really where are those hotspots. And a lot of the research I have right now can distribution is if you are putting it in areas where there are lower levels of overdose, you are wasting your money. You need to concentrate on those areas of high incidence of overdose. We have got five ZIP Codes where we have high incidence of overdoses. So you can see when we are looking at the 2023 data for overdoses, it is typically in that 32114, so the kind of core Daytona area from 400 all the way up to Ormond. And that it fully is it coats, that typically will have high instance. So, then no, of course on the west side what we are seeing is just on the west side of the land, you can see they are that the yellow areas (indiscernible). The yellow is the west side of Deland and down in Deltona, East Deltona and the westerly side, which is more unincorporated. We've looked at the data over the years in terms of the last three years - it kinda stays the same and it's where we are seeing the hotspots. We'd like to provide this to the individuals who are continuing to apply for the opioid funding and asked them that they focus, if they are thinking about these vending machines, which is why we are here today, there was a request to counsel by Miss Jean Bailey, who has requested that we provide an opportunity to have these Narcan vending machines on public property, on county property. I wanted to just give you a brief overview of kind of how do we distribute Narcan? The research-based tells you that there is three ways, which is the static availability, which would be a Narcan vending machine. These are becoming more popular as a harm reduction strategy across the US to distribute these life-saving medications, essentially is what it is. There is also passive distribution. This would be recipients who must requested at a front desk. "May I have a box of Naloxone?" And active distribution is during a emergency situation. We are looking at the data to see where we can be most effective with our dollars in terms of settlement. The best place is providing Naloxone to people who use drugs... The best strategy in terms of harm reduction. Here, we've overlaid the types of distribution than the people that you want to target. I want to just provide a brief overview of what our current distribution efforts are in each of these, and then allow you to ask questions and decide if you would like to allow these Narcan vending machines as a policy matter, on publicly owned property. In terms of static availability, you can see they are all of this PowerPoint was included as part of the Agenda Item and so I will not read it. You can see from the static availability of what we are doing, where we could consider further expansion as well. And then passive distribution, here a lot of the organizations in our community are doing this sort of passive distribution. And if the Council so chooses, we could, with applying for opioid dollars, expand our static passive and active distribution of the medication. One of the things interestingly that the research shows, is that if you are distributing it as people leave jail, that is one of the times that they are most susceptible to overdose death because while their tolerance has decreased, they go out and will do the same amount that they have done previously before they have entered jail, so by giving them boxes of Naloxone, if there someone there to administer it, it is lifesaving. The research will tell us that it is most effective. And then of active distribution, of course, we've provided some options for you as well. So, the question before you today, and I think the request, and why we have made the Agenda Item that was added and supported by the full Council, the request was to put a Narcan vending machine at Dolphin Park, which is essentially the northeasterly side of the parking garage at the Ocean Center. The other request was for the transfer station here in Deland. As legal provided, did the research on this, there is no sovereign immunity for the county in terms of liability. Nothing protects us. If we were to put it out and there was a (indiscernible), if counsel so chooses, the third method would be to contract with 1/3 party vendor to maintain stock and be responsible for the vending machines. With that, I will answer any questions that you may have. And asked legal, if it's a legal question, to be my partner in the responses. JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman Reinhart? MATT REINHART: This is the Item that I asked to come back. I've been very involved with Karen and the group from the VRA and I appreciate their assistance on this. In conversations with Janine, As well. Not just because there's a need in this community, on April 29 of last year I lost my brother to an overdose. Leaving jail was probably normal for him. I love the idea of the jail, I really do and it involves in that second chance initiative that we can tie into as well. That being said, I know also that I've received several comments, and 32114, absolutely couldn't agree more. That is a highly concentrated area of this issue with the overdose. We need to start attacking it and we need to start somewhere. This is a perfect opportunity. Going back to what I started to say with respect to the parks, I have gotten a lot of emails with respect to Dolphin Park or the others that we have cleaned up, in fear that would attract that to that area. I'm not sure. I'm bringing that up because I said it would. I do also like the idea of the third-party vendor, kinda separating us, and therefore they are responsible for ensuring that the machine, if you use that, is stocked but I would like a little more further discussion about the park issue. I do like the jail issue. I do know that we have another issue by the Votran station as well. If you've ever driven by that area, that's another high concentration area and I believe it falls in the 32114 and falls within my District. That needs attention as well. Thank you for putting this together. Thank you Jean for your hard work, and Karen, you guys are amazing as well. Thank you to staff as well for making this an Item that we can discuss. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. Just a question. Going through the Item, I've really been drawn to option two, proceeding with a competitive procurement but I have a question. We discussed it briefly yesterday, but if we put vending machines – that means if you need it, you going get it. I'm concerned about liability, which is why I like the second option, it relieves us of reliability but still concerned about somebody safety. If anybody can go into the vending machine and get it, number one, you can answer both of these together, and if somebody goes and gets that, is there potential harm that they could do them themselves? BRAD BURBAUGH: The answer to number one, yes, it would be available to anyone. They could take as many boxes as they want, essentially. Number two, I'm not a medical doctor and I don't want to claim. I will say this: it will only affect you if you have opioids in your body and so it blocks the receptors. I don't know of any cases that it has hurt someone from taking that may not have opioids in their body. JEFFREY S BROWER: Good. Don, any questions? DON DEMPSEY: Doctor Burbach, in my line of work, I see it all the time. It's a real issue in the County and I see a lot of good people get sucked into this addiction. I've seen good people die of overdose and so it said. I was just wondering, with all the county money we give out to a lot of these (indiscernible), do you know how many there are actually? You don't have to give me an exact number, just spitball if you can tell me, how many treatments centers get County assistance? BRAD BURBAUGH: I would have to get that number back to you. One of the things we try to do, Council member Dempsey, one of the things we try to do is overlay the treatment centers, hospitals, and fire stations. You will see in those five ZIP Codes that we have the higher concentrations of hospitals, fire stations. Maybe looking at libraries as a passive distribution, where we could handed out in these high concentration hotspots. I would have to get you that information. I could just speak now from the alcohol, drug and mental health funding, that we are required to provide as part of the match. The treatment centers like it many there. I know that other departments may be using some of these treatment centers as well. I would not want to speculate. DON DEMPSEY: I don't just want to put static displays of this stuff at both stations or parking garages. I'd like to have them strategically placed in locations where they could normally pick up the Narcan, but also while they are there get some treatment. If they are there to get Narcan, it would sure be nice if they could walk inside and talk to somebody about their addiction. KARISSA GREEN: Mr Dempsey, could you speak into your mic DON DEMPSEY: I'm sorry. As opposed to hanging out at the bus station, knowing that they can save their high by using Narcan. I just think it would be better if we could look into how much money we are providing to these treatment centers and then as a condition of their receiving Government funding, that they have a static display for Narcan. And just see how much that helps first, as opposed to putting it randomly in the middle of nowhere where these people can't really get much assistance for their addiction. So, I don't know if we have looked into that, and if we have, I would really like to go through that path first before we start placing them anywhere. Thanks. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. Councilman Reinhart? MATT REINHART: I respect that, Mr Dempsey. What I see wrong with that, or not necessarily wrong, what I see the difficulty in is the individuals that, if you had a display set up at a treatment center, they are there for treatment. Those treatment facilities have Narcan on site. This is to address the individual that a accidental overdose that are highly concentrated in the 32114 area, the bus station is one of them where the overdose could occur. We want to be able to save the individual's life. That is the precedence: to save their life. If they were high or whatever, or there was a potential overdose issue, I don't think they would have the opportunity to walk in signing a treatment necessarily. These are to help those concentrated areas are referred to. You brought up a good question and it was one of the ones I asked Doctor (Name) when we had that conversation. I'm jumping from one topic to another, I apologize. Could it be detrimental to the individual's body if they had taken Narcan and there was not an overdose? No, there could not. I had to take the doctors word for it. The doctor knows more than I do with respect to that. I keep the Narcan in my truck. My wife keeps it in her car, just in the event that we are driving through Daytona and we were to see the situation like that. I wish more people would do just that. I do respect your comment. I don't think it doesn't need to be there – I think it's a good idea, but I don't think it needs to be isolated to just one type of location. I think it needs to be where these overdoses are occurring. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. Any other questions? OK, we will go to comments, which we have kind of had comments and questions. And then maybe, we do have two members of the public that would like to speak. One, I don't see anybody lighting up the Board. We will do that first and give direction. We will start with John Nicholson. SPEAKER: Thirty minutes and 1/2! I have lived a block from (indiscernible) for 40 years. I have seen the good and the bad. It is now in a good state. It is a other to see a homeless person there. It is a that you see somebody doing drugs there. Yes, in the past you would see the orange caps, you knew what they were for. You do not see them anymore. I have worked with the Ocen Center, getting it cleaned up, and putting in artificial (indiscernible). So we do not get wheat and whatnot and it takes two seconds to clean up the entire area. The idea that you bring them back down, the whole idea of Narcan is people who are on drugs. And to put it in the middle of the tourist industry in the most visible spots doesn't make sense to be. That area, the homes are going up in value. What is being built on the very far for 1 million, the average home and now that is being built or six or $700,000 homes, and the area is changing. To have you put the Narcan in that particular location next to the pathway that everybody coming out of the garage must pass, what does it tell them? It is a truck area. Everyone who goes to Burger King, it is a drug area. All of our hotels and thousands of kids who walk past it to get to the Ocen Center, the cheerleading camp and whatever, it is seeing Daytona Beach, drug interview. I do not think it is good for us. I came to you and said please help the chamber and the city with MainStreet. This is only two blocks of Main Street. So to drive a nail into all of the good things that are happening is not beneficial. And technically, what are the numbers? How many people have overdosed? To have one person is bad but to do this for one person, I do not think the happy thousands of people overdosing in this. So am asking you to at least look at that and do not harm us. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. And the other person was Jean Bailey. Jean, will you come up? I just would tell you that I do not think we would be here today had it not been for your persistence. You have paid a high price for this. And I appreciate the work that you have done. SPEAKER: Thank you very much, I appreciate you bring this up and I appreciate the discussion. I am invested of the land and you all know my son is the reason that I started it. This gentleman here is the only gentleman that I have heard that has a problem with the Narcan vending machine. As someone else said, other states have them and Oklahoma have them on the 10 pipes, I have been to (indiscernible) and they have them at the Sheriffs Office, they have them at the rehab, and they have them at the church. That is all we are asking again is for the high areas, we do have one, to your point at (indiscernible) at 702 Ridgewood. It gets a lot of activity. I have been told several times how many people it has saved their lives. I was just a post about putting one out at the jail. Someone at the jail called me and said hey, I am talking to people in here. They said a couple of times last week they came and visited your machine and they would like to have one outside of the jail. Also, I can tell you that one of my boxes of Narcan that week saved alike. And it was very important life to me. I have been told it saved a few people's lives. And so that is all I am asking. People ate going to get work until they are ready, I have been told. At until they are ready we need to keep them different. That is what the whole point of it is. And then now can machines need to be at the high overdose places. And I do not know why this person fix Dauphin Park is not a problem but it is. Unfortunately, I cannot get people to companies County Counsel meetings every other week. And you know, they work and they have got other issues. So what I have done is I have been out at events, a couple of you have seen the act event, I have been out walking the streets and I have been at the probation office. I have been getting letters of support from people asking the County Counsel to please vote yes to put these vending machines in areas that they are needed. (indiscernible) is doing very well, the one over here on Woodland, and (indiscernible), I have refilled it once. It is not being torn apart. The am not going in there and taking every box. It is working! And we just need more often. I am asking you all to please vote yes and I would like to hand out to these 69 letters to every one of you. I just do not have an automatic scanner so I cannot email them altogether I did it the old-fashioned way. I went and made copies for every one of you with the names on their, a lot of them were willing to put their addresses, but I made sure they put a phone number and email address in case you wanted to make sure that they want you to vote yes. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you, we can give those to the clerk and she will distribution. And you very much. We do have of the speakers. Kevin? You can say it into the microphone. Thank you for coming. SPEAKER: Thank you so much. I appreciate the County Ccouncil very much. My name is (Name) Cavanagh, I am an Executive Director of the Volusia Recovery Alliance a domestic a part of it. I am a person in long-term recovery of substance disorder for 41 years. I have many people in my life that Narcan has saved. I will tell a short story. A friend of mine has 15 years of recovery, he got hurt, he owns a tree company and he got hurt on the job. And he was a prescribed pain medication. And when the pain medication ran out, he unfortunately returned to use and got some have a when, what he thought was hammer when off the street. Previously I had given him Narcan, and he shared some of that Narcan with his neighbour. Well, that gentleman overdosed in his driveway. And his neighbour saved his life with that Narcan that I personally gave in. And today he is coming back to two years of recovery, and he is back to be a productive member of society. Solution of a covey alliance is given out essentially 28,000 Narcan kits since we got our contract with the Department of Children and Families. In that time, since the end of 2021, all those Narcan kits that we have given out, we have gotten not one complaint. We have also reached out to the manufacturer to make sure if they have ever gotten suit or any liability questions. And to the best of my knowledge, they are still doing the research. But they have not. As I am also a respiratory focused by background, I know that you know, when somebody I've has a heart attack and need CPR, that is a good Samaritan law that covers that. The same thing holds true with Narcan. In the time that we have been distributing it to we have saved 201 life just with our what Narcan distribution. We follow closely with the chev estate or, and the medical examiners data, when it comes to picking where we do our outreach. We have funding from the state to do Narcan distribution. And we look closely at whether trends are that we get from the Sheriff's Department. It is truly… You know, our desire… Now can should be part of every single first aid kit if you ask me. We also, you know, we get support from the Port of inch somebody told her chambers. I am the next part of this. We will discuss that. JEFFREY S BROWER: Jenny (unknown name)? SPEAKER: I am Jenny, I live in Daytona Beach, smack dab in the tourist area, and I love the tourism. I love the tourism and the big crowds and stuff and I have also, in my youth, I have been a younger person misbehaving in other beach towns. When we go someplace for vacation, we do not get to take a vacation from reality. And I am sorry I am emotional about this topic, but there are some things that out nationwide problems in the structure of our society that we are working on right now. But that drug problems are just kind of one manifestation of that and we are not going to fix them by sweeping them under the rug. So when you go to a 12 stamp yet yes, you are going to need to see mental health information, drug information, now we have this knockout. I am fortunate to have never been addicted to opioids but I note many you have and many who have died and that I think that I have experimented with in my youth any of which could have killed me. So this is really serious. And there is no way, I could never protect my own property values at the expense of withholding a resource from somebody. And I do not equate homeless people not being in evidence. We have fixed the problem, we are working on homelessness, it is a crisis. We need to work on it more but we cannot just sweep this underdeveloped and I am grateful for people who are promoting Narcan awareness, teaching people how to use it. There are nonprofits in the Daytona Beach that are teaching people how to help somebody. I am all for this! We cannot fix this by trying to of Asus. Thank you particularly commission of mine had for your testimony as well. Thank you all. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. Catherine? SPEAKER: Catherine, Daytona Beach. I am in support of (indiscernible), I did lose a about if to an overdose. In my family. So I fully supported and as far as being in law enforcement, when I first retired from law enforcement I volunteered at the recovery centre for a year and 1/2. Before they lost their funding and they got closed, they were 10 women there who were displaced from that centre closed. They were transferred to different areas in the county. I fully support this. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. That ends the public comments. Eventually we will need a motion from Councilman Dempsey. DON DEMPSEY: (indiscernible) once you have taken that one hit too many, I am so sorry guys, I apologize… I agree with everything you guys are saying. I do not want anybody to think that I am just disputing what Mr Rinehart said. I just want to make sure we are getting the best Narcan in the hands of these people as quickly as possible. So my question is what you have taken that hit too far and you are going to overdose what is the response time where you need to have the Narcan or it is going to be too late? Does anybody know that? JEFFREY S BROWER: Come up to the microphone. Good question. SPEAKER: So as the (indiscernible) of Volusia recovery Alliance, I have that information. SPEAKER: Typically if you are… If the person has stopped breathing altogether, that is five minutes before brain death starts. So, the best way would… Immediate is better of course! But you have about five minutes. But sometimes people's briefing is just depressed. So it is… That is not a hard answer for what you are asking. But take ASAP it really, because once you have stopped to briefing and eventually that is what is going to happen, because it works by… The Narcan hits the opioid receptor in the brain and the fentanyl or whatever is in the brain goes boop boop boop. So the Narcan kicks it off and the person can go back to normal. So after is not CPR or Narcan given the custom will go died because they would not be able to brief. SPEAKER: A week envisioning the people were sitting at the bus station doing drugs, overdosing and therefore they are going to be there within five minutes of the Narcan to see if the likes? Is that what we are purporting? SPEAKER: If somebody is with them, they can use the Narcan. You cannot use it on yourself. For instance, if someone is using with the person and that person got a bigger hit of the drug, but the person with them is not overdosing, they are capable of using the Narcan. Or a bystander. As Commissioner Reinhart mentioned, he carries it in his car. Many of us have come upon the scene and saved the life, just like my friends neighbor. She happened to have Narcan and was able to save his life. I'm not sure if that answers your question. DON DEMPSEY: I want to get it into the hands as many people as possible. I have friends, I do criminal defense, I know a lot of people who have fallen with the stuff, through an addiction that came about that is not really their fault. I will get into that later. So, we are all talking about how successful it is putting a vending machine outside of the jail, but obviously no one is sitting outside of the jail doing their drugs and then overdosing outside of the jail walls. So, my concern is how do we get this distributed into their hands so that they have it, so later that night when they are somewhere else in the overdose, that they have it. That's what I would like to see more of. I don't know how we can pinpoint it. My concern is – OK. My concern is if we are saying these people are going to do these drugs next to the vending machine at the bus station, I think that would draw a lot of law enforcement. That's a lot of fish in the barrel for law enforcement as a legal drug abuse. If anything, that's going to deter a lot of drug users away from there. They are not going to sit there in a group into their drugs. I don't think law enforcement is going to sit back passively and just turn their heads to it. I just don't know if it's going to have the end result. I agree with you. It's a problem, just how can we strategically make sure we can get that to those who need it? Right next to the bus station a block away is DCF. I know we give them a lot of money, can we make that as part of our deal with DCF, that you have to have a static vending machine out there? I want to put in as many places as possible, as opposed to one centralized place on the west or east side, or two places on the east side, the bus station in the park. Let's get it out everywhere so that it's not going to detract. I want to make it available and conveniently for those people and as nearby as possible. Thank you about the information for the five minutes. That's important. We have to make sure it's not a last resort thing. SPEAKER: Can I still answer to that? JEFFREY S BROWER: In just a second. I think Matt can answer the first part of your question. MATT REINHART: Thank you, Mr Chair. The jail idea, I think you just said it, you are putting it out to as many people as possible. I don't believe putting at the jail necessarily means they will be doing the drugs at the jail. You know what? I need something. They've been without that drug or whatever, the potential they could put themselves in harms way, so to speak. You want to get it out to as many people as possible and put in as many locations in order to accommodate that. I didn't mean to suggest that you were not agreeing with me, I knew you did. But putting it at those centers like the treatment centers, putting at the jail, where these are individuals that were users, and I don't want to give them a free pass thinking that "I will just take a Narcan kit and when I get high they can use it." But to have it in those locations, I do understand your concern with respect to the bus stations or whatever. I'm just saying it should be in as many places as possible to have it available. When you have it at those locations, if somebody came there to use the bus, and all of a sudden looked over and sees an incident takes place, where it's apparent that the individual is overdosing or laying there. He has the opportunity to help save him. If you can save one John Reinhart, you can save one person, then you have made the difference. To put it in as many places as possible, that's what I'm suggesting. JEFFREY S BROWER: Did you have a quick wrap up? SPEAKER: I just want to say it takes a multipronged approach. Some of it is street outreach. Some of it is the distribution boxes. It takes many community partners to do this work. Thank you so much. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. Vice Chair Troy Kent? TROY KENT: Just a couple of brief comments. I just wanted to thank Councilman Reinhart for sharing something near and dear, a personal situation in his life. That's not easy to do. And for taking lead on this issue. Is it Jean? I want to just, I've not spoken to you before, but you are tenacious. And you know, you've not given up. I've seen the pain in your eyes and in your face every time you have come before us. I don't want anybody to go through what you have gone through. I can tell you are doing this out of love for your son and in memory for your son, and that is impactful with me. So, thank you for not giving up because you could have after that first time. Because Public Comment, the way the rules are, we do not respond to Public Comment. We would be here all day and night. But you were persistent. I'm going to vote to support this and now I will address John Nicholson. I think you. You are the most consistent member of the public that comes here and even though I don't agree with you on this, I don't think you are the bogeyman. I think you are bringing up valid questions that you want to make sure your community stays a certain way. You've seen it the other way. You are bragging about how it has been. I'm appreciative of those efforts. I'm not going to vote the way you want me to but I appreciate your efforts. Thanks. JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman Santiago? DAVID SANTIAGO: I don't think we have a motion and order, do we? I moved to, option two as proposed by staff to proceed with the process to allow Narcan vending machines by the County. That gives some significant latitude to even work with private firms if it's set up right, that's why like that option. MATT REINHART: Absolute second. JEFFREY S BROWER: Could I ask you to add Item 1 to that. I think the attorneys – that's more of a long-term we can do them both at the same time. DAVID SANTIAGO: I am in my motion to include Item 1. JEFFREY S BROWER: That would extend immunity to local governments. I think that makes it easier in the future. So, we have a motion on the table for Item 1 and 2, the option one and two. Motion was by David Santiago and a second by Matt Reinhart. OK, any other discussion on the motion? Then, Karissa, would you call the role? KARISSA GREEN: Mr Dempsey? DON DEMPSEY: Can I ask one quick question? Are we also directing staff to look in – I'm just looking at Item 2, are we also asking staff to explore use of the opiate settlement funds for a lot of this? DAVID SANTIAGO: It is. That's why I said Item 2. JEFFREY S BROWER: We have money that could be available to the opioid funds. DON DEMPSEY: OK, yes. MICHAEL G DYER: It would allow your staff to explore the use of opioid funds for that purpose. DON DEMPSEY: Yes. (Laughs) KARISSA GREEN: Mr Kent? TROY KENT: Donders repeating himself like I did earlier. Yes, for me. KARISSA GREEN: Mr Reinhart? MATT REINHART: Yes KARISSA GREEN: Mr Santiago? DAVID SANTIAGO: Yes JEFFREY S BROWER: Yes. So, the motion carries. (Applause) JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. Alright, that brings us to Item 6, approval as required to appropriate Opioid Abatement Settlement funds in the amount of 2,638,586. Doctor Burbach? BRAD BURBAUGH: Yes, sir. This is the funding and we have put out our first round of grant funding. Again, this is settlement funds and not County funds. They are coming from Walgreens, Walmart and others who are part of that settlement. There are two buckets of money that we received. One is regional. We have 35 million over the next 16 years into this fund, where we were charged with taking a regional approach to solve this issue. There's another bucket of County funds that will generate 60 million over the next few years. This council created a opioid Advisory Council that consists of the 13 municipalities. And your representative, who is Council member Robbins that serves as the Chair of that Board. We put out a notice of funding availability on the street and we received the 2.6 million that's requested here, of the 4 million we put out on the street. The goal is to have two funding cycles for year. We will have another funding cycle here coming up posthaste. And what you have before you, the individuals applied for money that is focused on one of three things: treatment, prevention, or other strategies. That's what you have here in front of you. These individuals have applied. And so you have 2.6 million. I will be happy to answer any questions about the process, but the individuals who are receiving these funds are also here if there are specific questions about the grants. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. Councilman Santiago? DAVID SANTIAGO: Thank you Mr Chairman. Brad, I want to make sure I heard correctly in your presentation, this is just a portion of the 4 million? BRAD BURBAUGH: Correct. This is what was requested. DAVID SANTIAGO: On the 4 million that was available? And those are County dollars, correct? BRAD BURBAUGH: These are regional funds. DAVID SANTIAGO: One of the questions that I wanted to ask is, do we know how much of this is in messaging? The reason I asked that, when the medical and was here, it was an eye-opener. You said at the beginning of comment. He alluded to that residents should know that any drug bought on the street contains 1% of fentanyl. That was an eye-opener for me. I don't know enough about it. The messaging was very impactful for me and maybe it has stopped somebody from first time trying marijuana, right? I don't know. From the streets, right. So, how much messaging is in here that is proposed to share that message? Fentanyl is the bogeyman and that's what scares everybody. We need to share with them what's really happening with this bogeyman. BRAD BURBAUGH: I would believe that would fall in another strategy. I don't believe we have had anyone who has specifically asked for money for messaging, but if it's the Council's will, Carmen is standing up so we might have some. She has added something after the fact, I have asked her to interrupt mere jump in. CARMEN HALL: There are five agencies that have an outreach component for the I don't know the exact component but five of the groups have an outreach and education component. DAVID SANTIAGO: Do any of these work with our schools? CARMEN HALL: Yes, there is one. BRAD BURBAUGH: There are some school-based programs included in this as well. I think one of the things, going through the first cycle, and Carmen and I have talked of how do we do a better job of coordinating overall and marketing? If the County was to say and request this amount of money to engage with the vendor to do some of this education, that would be approved expense as well. DAVID SANTIAGO: That's where I was going to go next because coordinating is key. I'm not a marketing guy but I would like to see something pretty straight up. Buying marijuana off the streets has fentanyl. What does it do? It kills. Very clear. I don't think most people know that. That street stuff has fentanyl. I sound like I'm on a soapbox but I would like to hear what colleagues have to say. I would love to find a mechanism to coordinate some type of countywide messaging, including our partners, that make a clear message that all street drugs have fentanyl and the effects of fentanyl. TROY KENT: The chairman stepped out from it so I am going to stand in. DON DEMPSEY: Dr Burbaugh, this fits right in with what I was talking about in the last item. Basically, we got one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10 treatment centers whatever you want to call them. How many of the centers are actually going to be dispensing narcan? BRAD BURBAUGH: Are you talking but the grant agreements? DON DEMPSEY: Yes, with this funding allocation. BRAD BURBAUGH: We don't know. I would assume to guess that the two public safety agencies will be active distribution. We will not be funding that. I don't know the number off the top of my head. I will say, I don't think that we will have to make it a condition of funding, we have good partners endlessly ask them to be a partner in distribution, they would. DON DEMPSEY: I'm not necessarily trying to put the kibosh on this, but you said we have a significant amount of money for the next round and I'm wondering if we can potentially direct staff to include Narcan dispensing as a condition to get any further funding, because I do think now that we have seen the public outcry, we need dispensing in more than just a few locations. It would be nice to have the added 10 locations as a potential dispensary, as well. BRAD BURBAUGH: Certainly. This is what we did in the first round, foundations to freedom, and death CEO Katherine Russell. They added Narcan vending machines at my request. We need this conversation was coming and they are willing partner and will essentially bid on the competitive solicitation that we put out, as well as others, to provide these. Having a saturation plan, that is one of the things I have read in the research, having a saturation plan and understanding if you have reached saturation in that is an important component. That is why if we rely on one vendor, it's the best way to go. DON DEMPSEY: OK. Just to supplement with what Mr Santiago was talking about, you get fentanyl from buying a dime bag of weed from your local drug dealer, unknowingly, and you can overdose. I have seen it. I have seen people buying what they think is cocaine, it is cocaine laced with fentanyl, and having overdose issues. You don't go to the drug dealer and ask for fentanyl, it comes in the weed and cocaine. That's the problem. They don't know. I have talked about this with the medical examiner, those of you, I am a libertarian, Ron Paul, so to speak, I was a proponent of legalizing drugs, to be quite honest with you. For this very reason. When you buy stuff off of the street, it leads to unknown consequences. At least, when I asked the medical examiner, when you buy marijuana from a dispensary, do you worry about fentanyl in that when it comes from a state regulated dispensary? The answer was no. I don't do drugs (Laughs) I am not pushing drug use, but I am pushing for responsible dispensing. People are going to keep doing it whether we outlaw it or not and I am big advocate of making it from the dispensaries. It's a hot topic on the agenda coming up. That is where I stand. I am tired of seeing all these overdoses, in my world. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Vice Chair Kent. TROY KENT: You don't know what you don't know. When Doctor (unknown name) came in here and talk to us, like you mentioned, I won't say representative Santiago, old habits die hard. Councilman Santiago. Something that grabbed me to my core because about six my five weeks ago we dropped her son off in college. He is not here right now and has to make his own decision. I came home after this meeting and talked to Wyatt and my wife about anything, even like marijuana, 100% being laced with fentanyl, and it was absolutely frightening. With that, I go to my next piece, because I think you, Councilmember Santiago, have brought up the most impactful thing that should be happening. You don't know what you don't know, the education piece. I feel like I am with it. How did I not know this? Basically what he said was 100% of street drugs are laced with fentanyl, even marijuana. It will grab a hold of you and it will kill you. That is not OK. For anybody. You are an 18-year-old kid down in college, and you decide to experiment, smoke a little weed, and you die. What? I said, this message had to be sent out to everyone. This should be sent out to the masses. I want to go further. Dr Burbaugh, the county should be taken of some of this Opiod Abatement money and we should be messaging this, they should be out here. You hear me, I do not like fear mongers. When you have the medical examiner with the stats showing you bar graphs and line graphs – is it something that we get a message out on the billboards and say, 100% of illegal drugs are laced with fentanyl? Check yourself, something. I don't know. I think we should go further with that, and I'm glad you brought it up. DAVID SANTIAGO: One more follow-up, the organizations that were proposed to give this money to, can you tell me, geographically, where they are servicing? Where their position is. I want to make sure we are scattered throughout the county. Usually Don is the Westside guy looking out for the Westside. BRAD BURBAUGH: I can develop a map for you. A lot of that may be the headquarters on East and West but a lot of them are serving countywide. DAVID SANTIAGO: Alright, I take your word for it and trust you. BRAD BURBAUGH: I will double check. They have to have an established history of working in Volusia County, as well. That is one of the requirements of our grant. DAVID SANTIAGO: What kind of history, one year, two years? BRAD BURBAUGH: Two. DAVID SANTIAGO: Thank you. I move to approve item number six. JEFFREY S BROWER: We have a motion to approve item 6. Don, do you want to ask him to add something to the motion? DON DEMPSEY: I will second it, but I want to ask Doctor Burbaugh one more thing if we could. In the next round of money, is it possible to ensure that we have strategic locations that we can even contract, gives him money to places that maybe aren't even submitting bids? Just offer them a certain amount of money from this settlement fund place, vending machines, on their property. BRAD BURBAUGH: We would encourage, it is a grant process so they would have to go through the process. I heard you loud and clear. We will ask, in terms of the funding, the notice of funding availability, we will say that this is a priority of council. We will engage with Michael Ryan's team to see how we can have them apply and access of money to do a messaging campaign. We heard you loud and clear. MICHAEL G DYER: We will take a look at the legal side. I know there are some restrictions on the money from the state and will make sure that we vet that. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you very much. We have a motion on the floor by David Santiago, second by Councilman Dempsey, to approve the appropriation of opioid money. All in favor say aye, any opposed? That motion carries, 5 to 0. (Applause) JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. Good suggestions, Mr Dempsey. Before we break for lunch, we have a lot of people that have waited for item 7. Believe it or not, Council, it will not take that long. The purpose of doing this, we have it coming back – OK. Well, we will, they can hear it. I am going to give a preamble. This is coming back to the Council on 25th March next year. In the meeting, it was brought up that, or the last meeting, when that occurred, it was brought up that a lot of times we will bring something to the council and we have two weeks, which is not enough time to really consider it. I wanted to get this information to the public and to the council, because there is several different directions that we can go. This is just a tool to help the public with what we are all hearing right now. What can you do about flooding? MICHAEL G DYER: Sorry to interrupt. Technically, we have lost quorum. We are back. JEFFREY S BROWER: There is a speaker in the back. MICHAEL G DYER: Well, technically. I don't want to rely on that. We are good. JEFFREY S BROWER: I was in my preamble. Mr Kent is coming right back, he can hear. This is a tool that would help us in one very serious area and that is annexation. Right now I hear it all over the county that land is being annexed in their neighborhoods, from the unincorporated Volusia County, into the cities and they have nowhere representation on that. The people in unincorporated Volusia County. They can go to the city meeting when it comes up there, the annexation, and petition the city representatives but those representatives do not represent the people in the county. They don't have any direct representation. The rural boundary amendment, it is an amendment, it will go in 2026, if it is approved for the voters to approve. You get final say, if you like this or not. That is where it should be, in my understanding, in my belief. You should have final say in what happens in your government. You have that, to a degree, by the representation you see up here and at the cities. However in annexation, people in unincorporated Volusia County have no direct representation at a meeting discussing annexation at the city level. You can go, you can talk about it, you can petition your government. But you do not vote for them. They don't represent you. They are representing the people in their districts. I am not saying that they wouldn't, but you do not have direct representation. That is one of the main tools of the rural boundary agreement. Orange County is pursuing one right now that was voted on unanimously by the Orange County City Council. Seminole County has had one for years, and has been vigorously tested by the courts and found to be constitutional and allowed to stay in place. They both approach a little bit differently. Can you put up the items that are on the... I want to go to the second one. The first one is a letter from the Farm Bureau. I want to come back to that because that is a good way to talk about what we will hear from the public. I am looking at 072, additional information by Chair Brower. This is a copy of Seminole County charter provision that we can talk about. If you cannot find it, that is alright. What we establish at the last meeting is that the County can have say in what happens in the cities and municipalities, we can have an ordinance that overrides a lesser ordinance in a city. That the charter County ordinance would always prevail. Troy, did you want to interrupt? TROY KENT: I don't want to, but I want to. I am glad we are discussing this. I was a little concerned when I looked down I saw our clerk with a stack of yellow cards. I am happy about that. That makes me happy. My concern was, our staff, we have got – we usually break for lunch at 12, we got people here that might want to grab a bite to eat and come back to in 30 minutes. I will go with what the Council wants to do, Chairman. I can see this going on for a couple of hours, and I thought you said before I went in might be quick. JEFFREY S BROWER: Maybe... How about a compromise and we will listen to the comments? Council? Don, you are OK with it? You don't care? Can I have any public comments we have? Thank you all for coming. I have no idea, pro or con, and that is why I want to get it out today. There's going to be pros and cons, questions about this. I will ask you to stick with 30 minutes. You are going to hear a bell, and vice chair Kent and I might jump down there. Number one, Karen Clark. Nobody ever wants to be first. SPEAKER: Hello, Karen Clark, I live on the west side. We are a lot more rural then the city packed people in apartments and everything. I'm not as educated in this project as I should be, we need to look into this and I know there are pros and cons like I said before, but I think not waiting until March would actually prolong everything. Now that here, you see this is only some of us, and you know there is going to be a lot more to look into this. If you have a presentation that you get from someone that is good for the public, I think it is 11 minutes and there are others out there. Let us hear it, too. Put that thought in the presentation. SPEAKER: (unknown name). How do we start the discussion on moving forward with additional positive choices to resolve flooding issues? Volusia County residents voted by 75% to tax themselves for land conservation. Not once but twice. Environmentally sensitive lands have been purchased and preserved sometimes containing natural stormwater storage. We were extremely fortunate to receive 20 million in matching funds for conservation easements and land management agreements. These easements protect forest and farmland. We are 24 years into land conservation. Yet we still have widespread flooding in Volusia County and DeLand counsel program is not going to resolve those problems. Council keeps asking how much we have preserved in land conservation, why isn't the question what else can we do to stop the flooding? There are opportunities to add tools to the toolbox with the rural boundary amendment consideration, we are repeatedly told nothing can be done. Residents are concerned with the continuous creep of sprawl annexations and expansion of cities while flooding looms each time it rains. Identity boundary by supermajority vote manage density and intensity development and help from annexations that should occur for this inoperative it he to plan for the future which we currently do not have. When what we are doing isn't working, then do something different. Consider what is occurring in our county and the areas might benefit from having such a tool in place. Two reasons for consideration are potential impacts of flooding and coping with urban sprawl. We have to be willing to think long-term into the future to stop development induced flooding. The discussion needs to start today, gentlemen. Forward thinking, solution driven. Flood control and for our quality of life. Thank you. (Applause) JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. Is Amy... There she is. Amy (Name) you will be followed by Gino Holt. SPEAKER: Good afternoon, Amy (unknown name) DeLand Springs Association, we are so glad this is brought up by Councilman Johansson at the end of the last meeting. If we understood correctly when he said, it was that we need to get started now with staff, getting information out to the public, and having public meetings and hearing from our ranchers, hearing from our cattlemen and the people that live in the rural areas. And then, Chairman Brower went forward with that. His idea was that we get started talking and having the public conversations and then bring it back with information after hosting those public meetings and bring it back again in March. I don't believe he was saying hold it off until March and then get started. When Chairman Brower did go talk with the Volusia County Farm Bureau board, they sent a letter to all of the councilmen and will at the community Association support them, the Florida farm bureaus motto is the voice of agriculture. We believe that is true here in Volusia County. This is their letter that they wrote. Dear County Council Robbins, last evening Chairman Brower visited the Board of Directors to explain his position regarding rural boundaries and get their input. The Board of Directors stated reasons for not supporting rural boundary areas. There stated reasons are, one. They do not want arbitrary lines drawn around rural and urban areas because that will create winners and losers, many those inside the urban area will seen increase and their property values and those destined to remain rural will see a decrease in their property values. Two. They do no one additional regulations or government oversight on how they can utilize their properties. Three. They want the County Council to follow its current comprehensive plan. Four. Orange County Florida has seen a snap back reaction to their charter amendment in a rush of rural properties wanting to be annexed into the city prior to the vote to secure the future potential to develop their land assets, specifically Desiree Ranch. Volusia forever, Florida forever and other land trust of the preferred method of protecting road lands from development because it is voluntary and the land owners they choose to participate by selling a conservation easement are financially compensated for the decreased value of their land. Plus it has the added benefit of already being supported and funded by the voters both here in Volusia County and at the state level. The Board of Directors of the Florida Farm Bureau believe rural growth boundaries will hurt land owners without any recompense or any correction and any corrections to our county growth project limited and with the greatest financial burden borne by rural land owners. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you so much, so that the public knows, is on the public item, it is a public document. Gina Holt? And you will be followed by Charlotte (Name) take a deep breath. SPEAKER: I wasn't really prepared to speak twice, but I am one of those County residents that is affected by annexations all around me. In Edgewater, I have to say, Edgewater city Council has been very responsive to our coming before them since June. There has been an onslaught of development along state road 42. I live in the term, and live in the swamp, I love the swamp, I don't really want to see any more water. I don't know a whole lot about this subject, I am learning, and I do appreciate that you all are taking this up and talking about this. Other property owners that cannot develop their land the way that they want, I have sympathy with them. But there has to come a point where the people that are here now and own property now, 25 years I have owned my property, that is my retirement, that is a lot of money I have invested. I would like to see a return on my investment and I can't do that when there's irresponsible developers, I'm not against all developers, my father was a developer. But he built differently years ago. You develop one property the development that is happening now is catastrophic to the environment. I'd love I am an animal lover, I have been doing birds pray raptor rescuing in this county for 20 years, I've seen how many have been displaced from the develop and, it's telling cities you cannot arbitrarily wipe them out and I am all for them. Thank you. (Applause) JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you, Charlotte (Name) of Edgewater. SPEAKER: Hello, again. Charlotte (Name), city of Edgewater. I can't talk, sorry, you can't put toothpaste back in the tube and on that same thought, many of the choices of our predecessors not be undone. We as policymakers can all make changes starting today and we can move forward in different directions and we can all be that change and you will have the ability to start with changes at the county level. Maintaining a rural areas will help manage future growth and help preserve more environmentally sensitive land. As I said earlier, we saw unprecedented flooding from Ian that was a major hurricane. Since then I have seen areas flooded many neighbourhoods after a rain that I have never seen flooded in my lifetime with the exception of hurricanes. What has changed? We got more pavement and less trees and warehouses and less wetlands. Developers can still develop without developing on the wetlands and builders can still build without buildings 6 ft higher than the neighbours. I'm not an engineer and I don't have a degree in this but I have only been knee-deep in waters, physically pouring out from development that I considered to have been in a more rural area Onto another neighbourhood after an 8 inch rainstorm. We've spent too much time safeguarding and not enough time protecting all of us that have grown up here. Florida is home in beautiful. People want to grow here and I we can't stop the growth entirely but we have to work together to build the toolkit to responsibly slow it down and make sure it is all done right so we can preserve them of the old Florida we have left. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. Commissioner (Name) of Daytona. You can tell us if you are speaking for yourself or your commission. SPEAKER: Thank you, chairman. I would say that I'm speaking for my residence is what I am telling you. Take that with what you may. I am not against response will development prior to all anything that might be said or whatever. They are good and bad in everything we do. However, there is a grave responsibility us as elected officials to protect individual property rights. Period. But we forget sometimes that those individual property rights not only enclose the developers, but the people that have long-standing tenure and have been putting up with irresponsible development. Let me shape it that way. I've immense respect for vice chair Kent but I will continue to rail against irresponsible development, period. They are bad and they are good. I live in Deltona, the home of some of the most rampant development in Volusia County, we are now at 100,000 people in the city that was meant for 70,000 tops. Really laid out for 40,000 and then he grew up and then it exploded. How many people can live in that city? We cannot literally hold any more people in our city until we catch up with her infrastructure. And that is true with the rest I think of the county concerns us as far as the role boundaries go. We do need to protect what is on the outskirt. Osteen does not have a representative, but with every thing I have pledged to protect and the character of their area and their concerns with development out that way. We need to continue preventing urban sprawl and we have not done a great job at that, we have run way from Midtown, we run away from centralized locations, to sprawl out because people are tired of living on top of whatever. What do we have now? I'm just asking this, I know that we hate the word moratorium. But we need to slow down and we need to take a look at how we are developing, we have an issue with flooding. You hear this, the number one social media topic, I listened to my constituents, we have an obligation to stop and we have an obligation to require the developers do better and we have a responsibility to continue to protect our County inner cities also. This isn't a singular problem. It is a problem that we all share together. We made a pledge to protect these people out here. We didn't make a pledge to protect developers and guarantee them best use of property. It is a speculative gain when you become a developer. They have the money, the influence, we need to be protecting these people. Thank you. (Applause) JEFFREY S BROWER: Katherine (unknown name), followed by Gary Singleton. SPEAKER: Katherine (unknown name), Daytona Beach. Rural boundary charter amendment is a tool to manage development responsibly. Responsibly is the key word. It will provide Volusia County residents an opportunity for public participation in the process. Rural boundary charter amendment serves as a means to manage annexations that are contributing to develop induced flooding we are experiencing in Volusia County. It will formally establish the role boundary and area in the home rule charter providing additional strength to current land development regulations. It will manage, using established land-use regulations, regardless of whether the land is located within the city and a future. This charter amendment is a tool to manage annexations requiring the vote of the council to approve annexation. No Supermajority, no annexation. It will provide a system of checks and balances for amending the role boundary by the majority +1 vote of Volusia County Council at a public hearing where the residents may voice our concerns. It will provide an additional level of review for development of incorporated in a city lands and rural areas. This provides Volusia County, 16 cities and school board to work together for growth in this area. It will not take away rights, or limit the rights of property owners to annex into any city. Maintaining the rural areas to preserving the existing natural and environmental significant areas. We will never stop flooding. Flooding has now been a serious public's safety issue and not one the counselor can punch a law enforcement or committees to solve. Just because the developers were suitable 10 or 20 years ago does not mean they're suitable for today. With the pause and transition to ways to protect life over quality. In law enforcement, when we first responded in Columbine, they respond by setting up a perimeter. Nobody went in until SWAT arrived. And law-enforcement way to shift the perspective, because too many kids were dying. We had active shooter training and there was the shift away we develop. There's other ways to develop, if we can require the building on stem walls, we need to develop more responsibly, and this is one more tool in our toolbox. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Gary Singleton followed by Chelsea (unknown name). SPEAKER: My name is Gary Singleton, I live in District 3. First, I want to thank Chairman Brower for bringing this issue up for citizen input. It is something that is very important to many people. We have examples of rural boundaries that have been set and enforced by other counties. We can look at them as guidelines and we don't have to adopt anything than what we are concerned with, which is flooding, the protection of watersheds and wetlands, preservation of natural resources, groundwater recharge and wildlife habitats. Rural boundaries will allow the county to maintain some control over property after it has been annexed into the city. We have, at our disposal now, ENRAC, environment and natural resources advisory committee. There are people with expertise. You can draw on them and there are ready here to advise you on that. I looked at the Farm Bureau webpage and we can follow some of the things that they have said in their advancement of socially beneficial attributes, such as preserving wetland, groundwater recharge, flood control, preserving wildlife habitats and historical preservation. I have a little bit of time here, so I am going to address something. This is me talking for me. My issue, today, isn't the developers or what they are doing. We need developers. We need develop it. We need buildings to live in and go and buy our stuff. My issue is how it is being done by so many. When you increase the runoff into a stressed storm system, flows downstream, into a neighbor's property into their house, onto neighboring farms, this is the issue. I understand that there are rules in place that require development properties to hold or attenuate the runoff so that it does not exceed what was coming off the property prior to development. So, that is something that can be done everywhere, but the flooding issue needs to be addressed. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. Chelsea (unknown name)Followed by Elizabeth (unknown name). SPEAKER: Good morning, I am Chelsea (unknown name), I live in District 2, in Port Orange, and Tomoka Farms Village. You may remember me speaking on the flooding issues that we have been having in the past in our rural Tomoka Farms Village. Today I'm here to speak in favor of the overall boundary charter amendment. This isn't something that would happen overnight however I believe it is important to start the discussions today, as soon as possible, and get the ball rolling. This would not be the end-all be-all but would require a majority +1 vote of the commission to either approve more urban to Melamed and property located in a row better or to remove property from it altogether. As several have mentioned, it would not take away property rights, just maintain land-use determination for the county, rather than the cities, and maintain rural land. Developers may have a great influence, especially during an election time, but we, the citizens, have a voice and it is nice to see so many people voicing their opinions here today. I just want us to be able to get the discussions rolling, and get this on the ballot for voters to decide. We want to keep Volusia County of beautiful, keep it rural, protect the county we live in. I know a lot of people think that this is an important issue, I have talked to some of you before, so let's get the discussion rolling. A few of our neighbors wanted to be here from the Tomoka Farms village but unfortunately with the 9 AM start time, business hours during the week make it difficult. Hopefully you can keep having an evening one, and a daytime one, may be something to consider would be having something on the east side of the county, just something so everybody doesn't have to come all the way out here to Deland. Also, a couple of things I wrote down, how am I doing on time? You made a reference, Mr Kent, to developers being the bogeyman. I know a lot of us do feel that way. When developers apply for permits to build on protected wetlands, They can comply with environmental regulations by purchasing these wetlands to get credits to offset the negative impacts. This is what happens when developers had hundreds of homes and hundreds of townhouses and apartments built right behind us, on town West. They built about 6 feet, building on wetlands. These things are what we want to stop. Even though we are lucky enough to live in Tomoka Farms village, where we have a local plan, you can see how flooding is affecting so many here and just hope that you can stop the overdevelopment, do what we can to preserve existing natural and recreational land, and work together to do our part. Thank you. (Applause) JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. Elizabeth (unknown name) and Terri. Terri, you are going to have to tell me your last name when you come up, from Deltona. SPEAKER: My name is Elizabeth (unknown name), I live in the Tomoka Farms village area. I have scratches all over my paper that I had prepared for today because many people have said the same things I would like to say. I am going to avoid just reading the whole thing and just try to get out what I would like to. I said I was coming here to voice my opinion on the proposal for the boundary. As many people have said, it is not going to stop development, but it's just good to bring it in check, at least that is how I see it. This needs to be. As Chelsea just said, but the town West environment, we are a perfect example of them supposedly holding all of the water in and out coming to us. It doesn't happen, it goes to path of least resistance and we become the wetlands they are planning on. We have to stop allowing them to build on the wetlands and to stop squeezing as much building as they can on one piece of land. That is our problem. Development has to happen, we understand it. Everybody wants that. Florida is beautiful it's a popular state and everybody wants to come here and we cannot do it at all cost and lose the beauty Volusia County has for us. We have so many resources, the beaches, the springs, all of the places that we come. I grew up in South Florida. All we had was the beach, and a little tiny intercoastal. We came up here and there's water everywhere and it's beautiful. The water we are getting now is not so pretty. I hope you continue the discussion so we can vote on it and put some kind of control on the developers. Anyway, I have lost track and I'm not going to read anymore. Thank you very much. (Laughs) (Applause) JEFFREY S BROWER: And then Teresa Weiss, it wasn't about difficult. You will be followed by Donna Pippen. SPEAKER: Good morning, or afternoon, I am Teri Louise, and I am a resident of unincorporated Volusia County on the Osteen side, I am on a small family farm, and I'm the new member of the Osteen preservation society. We are not easy to put up with and we want to thank Chair Brower for bringing the rural boundary back to the agenda. The rural boundary does need to be set in combination with future land use and comprehensive plan. It needs to stop the encroachment of the urban areas into our more rural areas, are farm communities. We currently do have the Osteen joint planning area and the enterprise local plan, but they seem to be disappearing quickly, because we are being gobbled up by – Dana had to leave – Deltona keeps moving our way. We are looking for ways to stop that chipping away of our areas. The rural boundary is a legal and sound and proven way to preserve this. We moved out here 20 years ago to enjoy. We understand development is coming but we wanted to be control. We are one of only 27 Florida scenic highways, and it is an important corridor, for our scenery, we have a beautiful area, and for our animals. We have Florida panther on our cameras, all the tortoises that anybody would want. And even animals people don't like, snakes, bears, coyotes, they have a right to live, as well. We are losing our ag and farm property to subdivision to get anything they ask for, without our having much of a say, as Mr. Brower said, in our own area. It is leading to extensive infrastructure issues, including roads and safety, schools, flooding neighboring properties. We need to set boundaries, we need to set size limits. We know it is coming. If we set a size limit for the road, because right now if you go into some of the Deltona areas, you cannot drive a fire truck in between the two sides. We need sides, sizes. We also need tree replacement. That will actually stay. These people are putting their required two or three trees in, the homeowner buys the property and they now own it and they pulled the trees right out. They are not keeping the trees. All this leads to water not percolating where it needs to go. We need to safety back. Thank you all. (Applause) JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. Donna Pepin, you will be followed by Sherry (Name). You can lift it up. There is a switch on the side. SPEAKER: I've a really loud voice, I probably don't need it. I'm Donna Pippin. And I've lived in Volusia County for 45 years. I live over near Blue Lake. Luckily I have no problem with flooding, I'm up on the hill from here. Thank you, Jeff, for bringing this up so we can all speak to this. I'm going to start big. First of all, I look around and I say, there are no women here. (Laughs) this is all men. Sorry, you know, you need to have different people with different influences. That is my observation. Now I'm going really big. We talked about property rights. OK, who really owns the property? Who really owns the property? If you are Christian or you are Jewish or Muslim, if you are an atheist, then you probably could relate to this anyways. The Bible is used as a source for Christianity as well as Judaism and the Muslim religion this as well. Genesis 215 says we are stewards of the earth, summoned by God to work it and take care of it. Our uses of the earth must be designed to conserve and renew, rather than deplete and destroy. OK. All of you are here being responsible for the people that have elected you. And so, this is a good idea because it gives us a saying, I don't like the fact that we put the amendment on, it has to be 60%. It should be 50 or 51. But we have to deal with that. But anywhere where people have a voice that is a good thing, because we are a democracy. In New Hampshire, the developers already know the council people and the people that live there, they are all on the same page. They do want their land ruined. So they, the developers come to develop, they know that they have to conform to what is environmentally been decided already. And that... Here is the other thing that I think of... I don't know how this could be done, but what we really need is for all of Florida to be mapped where the water runs. Where the water moved because when we develop and we block the water, we are creating all kinds of problems. Flooding problems, drinking water problems, springs... If we can't do it there, let's do it in Volusia County. Let's have a task force, looked Volusia County and see where the water runs. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you, Sherry (Name) followed by Jennie (Name). Sherry here? SPEAKER: Thank you everyone, thank you for listening to us today. I'm Sherry from Daytona Park states. I'm going to try and read this fast. 70 years ago I walked across the clear cut land that is now Daytona Park Estates. My parents took a video of us as a family and I was crying, "You're going to kill us," because it was like an arid desert. It was very hot. And I was about six years old, 40 years ago my parents built on the land there. We didn't foresee the future, we didn't know that there would be flooding and drainage issues. 25 years ago I moved from a piece of property that it was next to a piece of land that was placed into nature Conservancy for perpetuity. I didn't realize what a wonderful piece of property I was leaving that there was something next to me that was secure. We used to use backroads to get to Orange city because a couple of roads stopped and there was no other way, there was no veterans highway, it was a beautiful piece of land over there. Someday we would be developed, we didn't know that there was gonna be flooding and long-standing and on long-standing and neighbouring lands. We were thinking about the air quality and force contribute and the wildlife habitats would be taken away forever. But now we know when I drive there now, I just want to cry, remembering what was there, but will never be there again. The missed opportunity for the county to hold onto its rural qualities and stick to the comprehensive plan. Developers argued that zoning restriction infringed upon constitutional rights. However, this argument has been turned down by the Supreme Court and the landmark case of... In 1926. The spring court validated stating that zoning did not violate one's constitutional rights since it serves as a comprehensive plan for maintaining, protecting and updating the community. Thus zoning is considered appropriate extension of the communities authority to pass laws related to protecting the public health safety, morals, and general welfare. The court's opinion also suggested that the zoning laws must evolve to meet changing needs over time. The meaning of constitutional guarantees never varies. The scope of their application must expand or contract to meet the new and different conditions which are constantly coming within a field of operation. We must embrace the opportunity to maintain what we can of our land and air quality for the health, safety, and general welfare of the public. We can learn from our own experiences, devastating nightmares of families being flooded and habitats displaced by unnatural expansion into rural spaces. Volusia County residents speak up and let them know we do not want... We do want to have control of the development within the county, by local municipalities it's a duty we must maintain for the future. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you (Laughs) (Applause) Jenny (Name) followed by Cindy Harris. SPEAKER: I'm very much of a city girl... **Audio lost** **Audio restored** This rural boundary, when I first moved to Volusia County in 2010, I misinterpreted the landscape when I was riding my bicycle around to getting to know the place. I was like this is one of those really cool areas, they have their little urban walkable area and they have this, it gets really rural really quick, they must have put a boundary. No, no, it's just that land hadn't gotten suburbanized yet. People don't necessarily realize there are some kind of hidden subsidies that incentivize a suburban sprawl type development without us knowing it. We are starting to become aware of what some of those hidden distortions are. I'm actually kind of a libertarian by orientation so I like to find out what the economic distortions are that promote certain types of behavior. When we really unpack those, and find out, we can channel a more development into the dense areas that need... There are a good better place for it, and we can keep more of the rural areas rural, for flood control, for the beauty of nature, for all of that. By the way, one of the problems with suburban development is landscaping. Of all things that shouldn't be a problem, landscaping is causing a lot of problems because it takes away the nature and they plant these other things that have to be artificially maintained by chemicals and so on. On that note, I would like to acknowledge Vice Chairman Kent for his promotion of wildflower month and promoting native plants, that is a really important part of Florida. This is for our physical health as residence, is for the desirability as a tourist destination. And we do, we have to protect our rural communities. Thank you so much. (Applause) JEFFREY S BROWER: Cindy Harris. John Joslin? Cindy is not here? OK, come on down, John. SPEAKER: I'm John Joslin, resident in the DeLand area, we've been here for 30+ years, we are Florida natives. We have been farming now for what was rural area for 15 years. It's now surrounded by thousands of homes and if you can guess where it is, it's of Victoria Park area. In 2019, we noticed we were certain have issues with a little bit a groundwater collection on our property will get a heavy rain, and never flood before, we never had a problem. Over the next couple of years it got worse as they put in the Victoria trails, then 2022, we have the hurricanes come through and we flooded. I'm talking 4 to 5 feet of water in the rain field. Drained out, got it all planted again and they had never flooded us before. Last year, he flooded again we took the field out 45% of our production, brought in dirt, $180,000 later, my property does not flood now, water no longer comes in from the County ditches and the low lands beside me were used to sit peacefully before the development. I'm not against development, and for responsible development, we do not have response but the development in this county right now. This is a multifaceted problem. I'm not holding the developers solely responsible but they are culpable, the city is culpable, if you ask anybody who passed the buck, you say something to the developers, we are doing with the code requires, the code for we are doing the bare minimum. The city, you are in the county, we are not responsible for you, if you're in the county, they annex you into the city. My friend on the PUD board says the minute we lay down things, the developers don't like it and they hightail it for the cities because they know they will rubber stamp it where they want. It's time to put a stop to it, folks. We can't keep doing this. I'd agree with the farm bureau on what they just recently said I'm telling you, we need to fix this, this is a tool for the county to begin to take some action again. I don't understand why you would want to continue to let the cities and access in and when the property gets flooded it's always county property. Then you are left with the mess. Why don't we want this boundaries thing? I think it is a great tool and we need to bring it about. I want to thank Chairman Brower for bringing it up and I hope you all will support this when it comes up. Thank you. (Applause) JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. You may know this next speaker, Pat Joslin. Can you speak into the microphone? I want to hear this. SPEAKER: My word is getting too loud then you have heard me. TROY KENT: Apology accepted. SPEAKER: I'm Pat Joslin, we live in what is left of unincorporated Volusia County, everyone else around us is DeLand. What I'm here to talk about today, John speaks better, is to say that I think some of us as citizens should be in this world boundary committee. (Applause) SPEAKER: I think we should know as much as you do. I think we should also know how to help us. There's got to stop, like everybody said, I don't need to repeat. We watched hurricane Ian, the development past the last development when income they were pumping the day of and water was flooding us. Our street was flooded before they were done. It was a weekend and it did not get shut off until Monday. Some of what John said about us fixing our property, we did. We put (unknown term) barrier and we had a berm protecting us from the road. Now the water stays in the ditch and does not flood us. We have fixed us, but our neighbor across the street just moved in two months ago and she is flipping out. She wants to go back to where she came from. She looked us up, we are X. Does anybody know what this is? This is the highest piece of property in Volusia County. We should not have flooding. We should not have flooding. 5500 homes around us, building 6 feet up is what flooded us. Rural boundaries can protect us by limiting postage stamp size houses on pieces of property with all of the asphalt. They're putting in another subdivision down the street from us on the corner of Blue Lake and Taylor. They got it down to 65 homes, I think, instead of 75. 20 acres, folks. 20 acres. That is all that is, that they are building on. If we do not fix it, you are going to lose – I am born and raised in Deland, 1955. (Applause) JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you, Pat. Suzanne Oster. You will be followed by John Nicholson. SPEAKER: Hi. I live in the Corbin area, County. We got the Turnbull Bay canal there, which is I think New Smyrna. Then we have another canal, and the page corridor that is being talked about. We have Lake Waterford there, civil ponds. Our drainage system is very outdated. I have had Robert from the county, and he has done what he can, but we are still getting flooded. We have two pieces of property on my street that is designated flood property. One has just been sold. I am afraid if it gets built on, we are going to be flooded even more. We are flooded from both sides of the street in the middle. We had never had any flooding until Ian, and ever since then if we have a heavy rain for 15 or 20 minute, the street is flooded. I just want to state that. I hope the County and the city could work together to solve this problem. And hopefully the page corridor will not be built on. If it does, when the lake and the ponds overflow, it will go over that asphalt and come to us and make matters worse. I am still reeling from Ian. If I have another flood like that, I am going to be homeless. I cannot afford anything more. My house got flooded, neighbors houses got flooded. Every time heavy rain – we are very stressed and anxiety, because we are afraid the same thing is going to happen. Thank you. (Applause) JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. John Nicholson. SPEAKER: John Nicholson, Daytona Beach Side. The developers think I'm anti-development. The residents that live near me think I am Pro development. I can see both sides. I'm older than almost all of you, there is a phrase has has been there done that. In fifth grade I read an article in the paper, 100,000 people. It is now 3 million. Everything that is being spoken about now was spoken about 50 years ago. That clearcutting of every tree, every piece of grass on the property, so they can build, was done 60 years ago. 50 years ago, they decided on a rural boundary. It was Krome Avenue. Our house was on 99th Avenue, Krome Avenue was 317. 300 blocks seems a long way away. It took 10 years. They built the road to nowhere, Kendall Drive, and Apartments, townhouses, you name it. Everything and his brother was built until Krome Avenue was only a couple of blocks away, they wanted to extend it. We are in that position right now. Almost everything in Daytona Beach is spoken for. There is almost no vacant land that is not already determined to have something on it. So, what is only left is what is west of us. It doesn't concern me, because it is not me. I have been there, done that. We have spoken it. The only thing that can be saved is the area west of 95. Almost all of that is spoken, in Daytona Beach. You have to go to the forest, in order to get undeveloped land. After the forest, the only developable land is Deland, DeLeon Springs. That is the area that we are talking about. Everything else is early damage, except for the southern area, southeast area. You really need this. Talking about two years away. Do you know how much can be done in two years? Daytona Beach grew by five, 6000 people in two years. That is just Daytona Beach, not including what happened to Port Orange, what have been to Victoria Park, etc., etc. In two years, your next item, when Avalon Park comes in, 10,000 people – there's good to be a lot of people. Who is saying that cannot happen over on the west side? So, I am asking you, I like development. Downtown, in urban areas. That is where we need to put it. You need a rural boundary. Thank you. (Applause) JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. Martha Ashley followed by Wendy Anderson. Is Martha here? Then Doctor Anderson, you are up. SPEAKER: Thank you. I am Wendy Anderson, I live in Deland. I would echo what most people have said today, and to simply say this. I think having to go towards rural boundary amendment is a nuclear option. I think we're at that point where we need nuclear option. I don't like the idea of having to go to that point, I don't want to be a fear mongering. We have seen some serious problems. Two points. Somebody posted on Facebook this morning, those keyboard warriors, that it was something about the thing that had been on the radio or whatever. They have been to link an article from a peer reviewed journal called the Natural Hazards Journal, from 2006. It is a long time ago, fast forward 18 years. It is called, the price of permits, measuring the economic impacts of development in Florida from 2006. The cost is in the billions, billions of developing in wetlands. Of course, it is even greater than that now. My point is, we shouldn't have to go to the nuclear option, if we would only follow the ordinances and the rules that we already have on the books. The comp plan, the future land use map, all of that already sets up really good boundaries and guidelines for us. If only we would follow it, if only we would stop making changes and variances to the zoning into the land-use. We have local plans. Follow them. The smart growth Volusia plan. If you have not read it, it goes back to 2006. There is really good stuff in there. The one problem with the smart growth plan is it uses words like encourage, should, instead of shall. We need to make some of these standards more required, rather than voluntary. I want to point out, in case you are not aware, chapter 50 of the comp plan is the environmental and minimum standards. Those are standards that do apply to every square foot of the County including in the cities. We need to follow those. There are wetland standards, tree preservation standards, other standards there that need to be in force. Landowners are not entitled to zoning changes. They are entitled to the things that they are entitled to when they bought the property under the zoning that they bought it, and have paid taxes for all of these years. I hope we don't have to go to the nuclear option. But, if we do, if we have to, and we have to, and we need to let the voters make that decision. Thank you. (Applause) JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. Margie Palmer. You will be followed by Tyler Malmberg. SPEAKER: Good afternoon, my name is Margie Palmer, I live in the never never land between Edgewater and Oak Hill. I'm in an unincorporated lot. I built on vocal road, which I am sure you have heard of before. I am not in the city of Edgewater. I will say that I appreciate she is here today, because I have gone to some of the Edgewater meetings to discuss and listen to the presentations that were made on behalf of the developers. My lot is an agricultural lot. My neighbors are agricultural lots. There is a very large development that is kitty corner across from us, and another one that is currently in development across from me and they're putting one behind me. My house was built in 2016. It is not old, not flat, it was built 12 or 14 inches above the road. The road has now been changed because now all the water does run into my yard. I am a realtor. I understand property rights very well. Like someone else just said, my property was purchased with the zoning that it was when I purchased it. The other properties around me were purchased with different zoning. They were annexed into the city. I can go to the city meetings, for Edgewater, even though I have an Edgewater ZIP Code, I can go to the city meetings and I was actually told by one of the zoning people that you have no voice here. OK, where is my voice then? You are my voice. I understand property rights. I have property rights, but their property rights do not trump my rights. You are my representatives. What my ask is, I have been watching this a long time, I did not come prepared to speak so I don't have something to read but I have been watching body language and the level of engagement before me. All I ask is that you listen. My voice is just as big of a voice and just as equal as any of the developers. I have sold a lot of people that are coming here from other states. I am not against development. I don't believe all developers are bad or evil. That being said, what their job is is to make money, and sometimes that does not work it for some of us. I am just asking that you are open, that you listen, that you are engaged, that you hear every person and what they have for you, because you are my voice. You are it. Thank you. (Applause) JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. Tyler, and you will be followed by Dana, (unknown name), final speaker. SPEAKER: I am Tyler (unknown name), born and raised in Deland, I live on Glenwood Road now. I whole life I have lived on a property that was over an acre in size except for in college. The character of West Volusia, the medium on size lots. Most of the families I grew up with cannot afford 10, 20 or 30 acres, but they could afford one, two, 3 acres that is what we grew up on. The development has to be raised 6 feet so we can get utilities what of making the drainage work, avoiding trees, stormwater ponds, specimen or distorted trees that require preservation. When we start looking at all their constraints, the economics become nonviable for the quarter acre, half-acre, three quarter acre, 1 acre lot. We do not see them today. Bob Fitzsimmons is building 20 of them year and that might be it. When I was in college, there were exemptions on council code, land of element, County land development code that allowed for two half-acre subdivisions with easement. They do not require site plan and engineering and these other things, provided a middleground option. That houses were built with building permits. We do not clear-cut the subdivision. We don't have those anymore, because of things that have changed with emergency response code. Because of minimum requirements that have come into place for those subdivisions of tracts of land. One of the things that I think should be looked at, rather than just telling people know, is finding other paths to yes for the type of development that we want in our community. What I want to see is more one to 5 acre tract development in the community because this is the type of place I want to live on. We need to find ways to split a 20 or 30 acres of land to split into parcels without getting financing from out-of-state or out of region because that is how we're getting the out of region influences that are bringing the development that are contentious and unpopular. I think there are alternatives we can incentivize, and look at reducing some of the restrictions in place and consider, is that providing 2 12 foot lanes or 11 foot lanes and the sidewalk or waterline and sewer line, so we have great emergency response and other services to the six houses. Is that more important than not ending up with 50 houses on the property? To me, I have talked with Clay about this, something the planning department is looking at and it should be looked at more extensively rather than restricting. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you, Tyler. You're not the last speaker but still, your voice is important and you will be followed by Doug (Name). SPEAKER: Thank you all for considering the amendment of rural boundary. I've learned a lot here from everybody, I'm more educated on this topic. I'm a 60 year resident and I grew on Volusia County and it is heartbreaking to see what has happened to our land, our trees are being disrupted. I don't have words, it's so sad to see. Everywhere you look, how many more apartments or storage units do we need? A lot of people tell me that their homes got flooded during the last hurricanes, so many. Mine didn't. But yet, it didn't yet. I live in Sunrise Oaks, and they are been a do a whole other track right behind where the canal meets, all the way to Williamson. We have so many apartments as it is, I mean they built that track right between Walmart and the police station, there must be about 300 buildings back there, and then all away on the canal, we have a huge storage unit. Now they are clearing behind Walgreens, they just flattened it all of the trees are gone. Then I drive up to my mom's house, Ormond Beach. Oh my God, Stricklin range just... Sorry, they just plowed all those trees across from (Name), did you see that? Are you looking? We need to do something. The only thing I can think of is greed, man. I don't mind developing but this is just out of this world. I remember when they were building Nova road, it was a dirt road, I grew up here. This is insane. Thank you. (Applause) JEFFREY S BROWER: Doug Bell. You are the final speaker. SPEAKER: I guess sometimes it's nice to be last. I hope it is clear now that this council and the previous ones are going back to 2004 has always had the authority to regulate these, it goes back to 1986 with the environmental standards. You and your past ones are the ones who are responsible for what has been happening because you have had you could have done this a long time ago. 2004 is when Seminole county did it and you Volusia County, you've association with the counties, that was probably there. You mentioned about developers, Troy Kent, I have no problem with developers because it is a business, but I want to say one thing, you give them a gift when you change your investment the property by giving the changing in zoning. They get the gift and we get the responsibility for concurrency and all the things that have to suffer, the storm waters, etc., etc. In case you didn't know it, they put a publication back in the 1990s I talked about our water well. They said we are surrounded by saltwater, we are not connected to the aquifer. We are our own source and the saltwater has come up in the bottom and the sides and the city is pumped from the inside the County. I know people that have had to dig their wells deeper to get water. That is wrong. That is not good. Did you know back in the 1950s that water was a mineral right, that was determined by a District Court order in Tampa. They changed that with the law when they did the water management area. That is something nobody knows used to be able to have a right and Tampa was trying to take their water and put the court case against them, that's how that came up. This rural boundary is way, way late. If you followed the law, if you had enforced the chapter 50 that Wendy Anderson had mentioned, if you followed the law and made them enforce those things, put to the County manager's office and asked for them to show compliance because they should have complied with those laws with the stormwater and by the year 2000, that should have been fulfilled. And I have no proof that it is and I think and I understand it, they have not been following it. All of these issues would not be here if you just followed the minimum environment of standards and if you read section 202.4, by the way, if you read that, you will see it's not limited to what is there. The authority for you to regulate the cities can be expanded into other areas. It is in their and you can read it for yourself. I've read it for myself, chapter 50 is the codification of it, but it's needed, and I live in rural Volusia I was flooded somewhat but not my house, I built above the house, above the road. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. OK, thank you everybody for coming in, we are good to take a break until 2 PM. Let me tell you this, if you are not able to come back, go to Volusia.org and you can listen to the Council discussed this. You've done most of the work, and get have a civil discussion with the county attorney about what the path forward looks like and what the time requirements would be and what needs to be done first. Just so the Council is aware and so you are aware. Thank you very much for coming in, and we will resume at 2 PM. (Break for lunch at 1:24pm ET - Back at 2pm ET) SPEAKER: Alright, thank you, it's 2:01 PM, so, everybody will find a seat, we will get started. We still have a lot to cover with the rest of the agenda. I'm going to wrap this up pretty quick, I think the public is obviously doing their research, I just want to point out that on the item number seven, for the Council's knowledge and the public, there is all the language for the County of seminal, there is a language for the County of Orange County, were both done it a little bit different. Orange County has done this with two ordinances, Seminole, with one but both of them are geared to curbing, as they say in their own words, urban sprawl. And trying to protect the rural areas, the farmlands. I'm going to ask Mike something, a couple questions just so we understand the process and the length of the process. I do want to deal just briefly with the letter from the Farm Bureau, since is already a public record item that was read as well today, I have been taking this idea, I went to the Farm Bureau and I went and walked right across the street because of the fairgrounds board, with maybe 30 people there were more that are having their meeting. I got a totally different response environment euro and they were surprised by the response that the Farm Bureau gave. Then I went to the city of Pearson, they put me on the agenda to speak of this and that went really well. But the Farm Bureau response was not ellipses these are friends of mine, these are fellow farmers and landowners, some of them are almost right next door to their neighbors. It was interesting what they said, what they started off with was just stop changing the zoning. Just stop changing the comp plan, and just stop developing wetlands. I said, that is what this does. And they are concerned, and I understand that farmers are pretty independent, we do not always trust government. They do not want more government interference, but they want us to do exactly what this does. And one of them finally said, I do not know -- I don't want my property developed, I might have grandchildren someday that might need the money, they should be able to sell out for the highest use of that land. This does not even stop that from happening. It just requires a little more focus, one more vote, super majority vote, if that is the way we decide to go with it. We could do, Seminole does not require a super majority, they just do not do it. Since they formed a rural boundary, they do not develop any of that land, they been serious about it. Part of it was because of annexation and digging on unincorporated lands and I'm thinking orange county that is there concern. I just want all of you do not want to counsel, I do not know what this will look like when we get to the end if you get that far. I hope it does, like what Doctor Anderson said, this is the nuclear option. You might find something better along the way. So, Michael Dyer, can you just discuss, there are three or Paula, whatever you want to, probably three major areas that have to be done. To me the first one that seems to be the most important that would have to be done first, so, we know what we are even looking at is a map. What is the process of drawing the map and any exclusions that we would need to cover? The city has already designated areas for their future growth. MICHAEL G DYER: We have mapping staff called GIS within our resource management, I would say this would be an exercise or could be an exercise similar to what you went through and you identified the districts after the census for the Council districts. Drawing maps, if you followed the approach that the Council... the Council did attempt this in 2006. They put forward seven amendments, two of which provided for a conference of planning, primacy or preemption of the city authority basically adding the Council as a necessary requirement to change the latest designation in a specific area. Recently, you have seen attached to this item that is similar is Orange County's proposal, this came out of their charter review commission. My understanding is that this delineates what they call rural area. They carved out six specific areas that are not within a rural area, and the rural area there are any changes to the conference of plan, this would require approval by the County commission, even if the property had been annexed by the city. So, this adds a layer of County Council or or in our case County commission role. Because typically what happens is that if a property is annexed for a county, they take that land subject to our conference of planning designation, zoning designation, they can change it. That does not require or does not involve any other action by this council. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK, thank you. Any guesstimate of time required? I know that is not your department. But you went through this with the school board. I can or Clay and I contacting this, but in your charter, we do have a charter review process every 10 years. They are required to give a report to you on what they recommend to be put on the ballot in 12 months. In the past to count -- in the past two cycles, which is the last 20 years, counsel gets a report. I was here for the 2006 changes but I was not here for 2016. The report is given to the Council recommended changes and counsel can do whatever they want with that. They can take a proposal as is, they can edit a proposal or decide not to put it on the ballot. In 2006, counsel, one of the proposals from the charter review commission involved something like the orange County amendment and the conferencing-- conference of planning privacy. Counsel decided to put an additional one of the same subject a little bit differently. If you were to start on your own, this should be a many month process, we want to start with first is asking counsel fundamental questions on what we can accomplish. And that may involve drawing a map, it may not. The reason I say that is because what you have right now in your County charter, you have environmental minimal standards. You are allowed by ordinance to adopt what instances apply in the city and County on environmental subjects. This is a bit different in that because the current charter, the city still has their zoning authority or the conference planning authority, this would introduce a County role in the conference of planning process. If you wanted to go in that direction. You could write it in a way where you can designate the unincorporated areas of a certain date, regardless if the property is annexed, if they want to change the conference of plan, they have to get consent or approval of County Council. Orange county is a little bit more complicated because they carved out six areas in the rural area that would not be considered part of the rural area, so, this really depends on what you want to do and how complicated you can do it. Certainly we can do it but if you wanted to identify areas do not include, we would just need to get direction from you, bring back some maps, it would take some time, because you would be writing legal descriptions for staff on that as well. I would say we would probably not start with the map, we would need some fundamental direction from you on where to go and then bring them back to you. Timeline wise, I would think you need six months, probably. Depending, but this is ultimately up to you to get it together. SPEAKER: Mr Chairman, can I get a point of order? Clarification for parliamentary procedures? I want to get an understanding because we have heard the testimony but now we are asking about the process to follow, but didn't the Council in its previous meeting vote to start that process? JEFFREY S BROWER: Yes, sir. DAVID SANTIAGO: I'm confused. So, I do not want you to be confused I want all of us to understand what the process is, I did not understand it the way that Amy said this morning. I think what I heard and what the public heard was that he slowed that down to March 2025. DAVID SANTIAGO: I know that is what you heard, but is this some of the public responding to comments you have made, right? Let me finish, the public that I have talked to, clearly heard that the process begun, but the process begun in two weeks ago, and again I supported that motion, I voted for it. So, that is why I think so members of the public may have been consumed -- confused or misled in some cases, that the County Council two weeks ago voted to start this process. In the direction of the discussion that happened then was staff, start to prepare all of the requirements, get the background information, get others involved, and I will stop Mr Chairman, get all parties involved and bring that process forward, just like the attorney was saying to take several months. We set a date of March, this Council board -- voted for it, to say March 15, bring back everything you have gathered to prepare for us to take action on it. That is what happened two weeks ago. So, I just want to put that out there, you can watch the video, but those that are open-minded, and I get it, there is a political season, and I understand that that was the clear direction from this counsel to staff, am I wrong, city attorney? County Attorney? MICHAEL G DYER: Unless we are directed otherwise, you directed your staff to research the details as well as stakeholder input for rural area boundary conjuring about you in March for consideration to provide the chart review commission for consideration. DAVID SANTIAGO: Thank you, miss or Jeremiah will stop. MICHAEL G DYER: Click and address some of these things, I think is that I started that process. SPEAKER: Good afternoon, this is Clay (unknown name) director of growth and resource management. Our staff is initiating on the preliminary mapping, that will require working with the city getting making sure we have the boundaries. We are 99.9% sure we have the boundaries because we had all the annexations that we know the municipal boundaries, the private water and sewer service areas. As well as the other layers that we have in the local plans, such as (unknown name), Tomoko Farms and has limitations, such as (unknown name) local plan or Farmington, which actually has a specific level development plan. So, reporting those in place with Brad and Amax folks in regards to the federal state, locally owned conservation areas that are in the unincorporated levels to properly map out. That way when we come back to you and Marge, we can give you the options with the lands that are available outside of all of these other constraints, as well as what can be done with regards to charter limits, and with regards to operating similarly to Broward County and (unknown name) County. I lived and practiced in Broward County in the 80s and early 90s, very hard to go through the county as well as the city to amend the future land use map because the County charter has that is one of the options are one of the requirements. Similar situation in (unknown name) County comes a, this is something that the board feels is appropriate, visit we have to work through with this property and legal staff to make sure it's being done correctly. But again, that will fall into a charter amendment requirement. So, we are proceeding and trying to get everything in place, so come March, we can provide sufficient information to you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Has misled the public... DAVID SANTIAGO: I did not accuse you by name. JEFFREY S BROWER: … The public thought it was completely shut down I immediately started getting calls, we need to know about this. What we just heard is we have started but the county attorney said we need direction from you about what to start. Clay said something just a little bit different. That is why I brought it back today, so everybody knows what the options are and so the public knows this is a process they need to be included in. Maps are the most important thing. But now we just heard we might not even need maps. There is a misunderstanding for the direction that we will go away. Don go ahead. DON DEMPSEY: I was going to ask, I know Brad is not here but maybe Clay or (Name) can answer this question. How much response do we get for these conservation easements and purposes through Volusia forever? We have a long list of people looking to sell us their properties or give us easements that we don't have the funds to purchase? SPEAKER: I do not know if we have a long list. We actively put out the program and you cipher your letter a and B list which go through the committees and those are always evaluated in fees and easements. I know that staff is actually negotiating some and in discussions with others about putting in an application but I do not know about a long list. (indiscernible) SUZANNE: We will redistribute the a and B list from counsel that you approved. I would describe it as a robust list. So many deals on the letter a list that we are working towards contracts towards all of them. And I think we have more easements than ever on that list and growing. We closed our first Ag easement recently and I think with the USDA grant that is an additional 20 million matched towards those agricultural easements. We will have great success in the program. Doctor Burwell came in. (LAUGHTER) SPEAKER: Dispute me if I'm wrong but I think the goal is 50% conservation, correct me if I'm wrong Brad. JEFFREY S BROWER: In our area... SPEAKER: Amongst practitioners and conservation space. JEFFREY S BROWER: In our prior discussions… I'm sorry to drag you out. SPEAKER: I needed the exercise. JEFFREY S BROWER: A lot of your strategic purchases are so we can basically create a boundary for a lack of better words through conservation, willing property owners selling as either easements or their property voluntarily. SPEAKER: Yes sir. And court orders. We try to create a Volusia County court or that keeps our county or individuals who keep the court order in 2001, our staff and the water management District's goal was to keep the county from going together like we see in South Florida -- courirdor JEFFREY S BROWER: Tiger County act… SPEAKER: The city of Ormond Beach have annexed their way to Tiger Bay. JEFFREY S BROWER: My question is as long as we are talking about charter amendments and all that stuff, is it possible we could ask the public? As long as we are asking them about this boundary issue maybe we could ask them to double the millage for Volu SPEAKER: we leave it to the voters to say how about .04% as opposed to point 02. Would that enable you to have more buying power. SPEAKER: Of course. More money means more leverage. SPEAKER: Do you think that would help us address some of these issues we are dealing with today having more money available through Volusia? SPEAKER: Certainly. SPEAKER: Thank you. I did not know if that was something... Put it as part of the discussion. I want to see all tools available and I agree with you Jeff. As long as we are having staff do research I would like to see if it is possible, as long as we are doing and referendums increase the millage and let the voters decide they want to spend more tax dollars on conservation easements to prevent growth. JEFFREY S BROWER: Brad would know better. It is a willing seller programs and we are not able to pay more than several appraisals show. We have more money does not encourage people to sell or not? You do not really know. (LAUGHTER) SPEAKER: I would not want to speculate there. But more resources are more tools in the toolbox. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. David Santiago? DAVID SANTIAGO: Thank you Mr. Chairman. It is an interesting approach, and it is almost a free market approach. People want to decide if they want to spend their money there. I am not opposed to the discussion. Since this is titled as a discussion, there is a lot of testimony. Good testimony today and very passionate. I certainly understand the people affected and the positions they are in. I would say the best thing Mr. Chairman Mr. Councilman that I heard had to do with development standards. I think it is important for the public to note, I voted for the discussion for staff to move forward with the urban growth boundary discussions and bring back information to us. But that is not needed in order to create development standards because our charter already allows us to create today. Those standards that I think I forgot the gentleman sitting over there who is not here anymore. Those standards can be done without this urban growth boundary. I do not want the public to mix the two. There is no need for one or the other to accomplish, which I agree we need a higher level of development standards. But what is not happened yet, is no new standards have been proposed. I have said it several times, show me some standards that are quantifiable that will make a difference, maybe not fix every problem but most and improve people's lives when it comes to flooding a new development. We can do that today. Please those that are new to this process, understand one has nothing to do with the other. New standards can be adopted today because of our environmental requirements or availabilities we have under our charter. I see the attorney chimed in but I will wait. It is also important for the public, I want to expand a bit on what Councilman Don Dempsey just said. It is important for the public to know that as Brad just answered, 36% of our county is currently under a preservation or environmental easement that is protective, I will use the word forever. He is shaking his head yes. 36% of our county is already protected. I'm not saying we should do more, we should. With the goal of 50%. It is important for the general public to understand that we have a priority to preserve more land under environmental standards and preserve them forever, for nondevelopment. It has not been ignored by this counsel or previous councils. It is in play. And continues. On even suggests maybe we can find more money to multiply our dollars that we partnered with some federal resources to allow us to buy more lands to reserve. That might not mean the parcel next year property that... There is this a plan in the center of the environment, the most sensitive areas it does not mean there are not other sensitive areas in pockets that we sometimes buy and preserve depending on the area. I am open to hearing those development standards that will make a difference, that makes sense. You should know to this date, at least since I have been here I have not heard one proposal to change that. I think my colleagues would be very open to that discussion, come with facts. And please from here our job is we represent half a million people and we have to look at the big picture. Certainly the micro as well and how it affects you all. We have to balance that and emotion sometimes should not play a part in our process. I respect the emotion that I would be there the same way. We have to look at facts, signs and legitimate proposals. I will wrap with this for now Mr. chair. Urban boundary and developmental standards, nothing to do with each other. We can do it today. Please do not let anyone tell you anything different. If there is a different dialogue, I will yield to my attorney to correct me if what I explained is incorrect. Thank you Mr. chairman. JEFFREY S BROWER: Mr. Dyer you are up. MICHAEL G DYER: .... I just want to comment about a specific point you've mentioned. ... If they carved out six areas that is more complicated mapping process. You could have a different approach and say the entire unincorporated area as of a certain date, you do not think it is part of the city. You have to have County Counsel approval (indiscernible). You would still have a map but it would be much less of a map. It really depends on how cancel wants to (indiscernible) JEFFREY S BROWER: Which is the reason for this discussion. I think that, that points out the confusion in the county that we have said map is a first place to start but now you have set a couple of times now.. **Audio lost** **Audio restored** JEFFREY S BROWER: ... Then I will be flooding there at that monstrosity gets built in a wetland in a residential area. You said there was no proposals. There was a proposal and two of us voted. There has been a proposal for four years from me to enact low impact development standards. We are finally... We have turned that over to ENRAC. We can do this. There is no shalls or musts. We have passed the point of no return where we have to say we need these standards in place. It is way too expensive at this point to go back and re-trough it the kind of development we have allowed, where we have allowed it in wetlands. I know we went through this in the last meeting, Danny asks if we developed wetlands and Clay said, "no". That is not factual. Maybe we do not develop the last pond of water in a wetland, but the wetland is all of that watershed that it travels through to get there. That is what is getting filled up with five or 6 feet of fill. We are developing wetlands and round wetlands. We need to enact them. I have said repeatedly the quickest way, this is what (Name) said, the quickest way is to stop approving zoning changes and complement changes. Everyone has vested rights on property they buy for what it was zoned for, for what the land used was. They do not have vested rights to change that and dramatically change the nature of the neighbourhood and as one of the speakers this morning set, we are actually handing the money. They had these rights and how they increased it to make a much more valuable for development. Yet we get the bill handed back to make the bills, build the roats and do the storm water, and maintain it forever and there is not enough money to go around. That is why to me the rural boundary is the best way to stop urban sprawl and say here is a line. And beyond that line you can still apply, you can still go through the process. It still gets voted on. We are not changing your ability to go through that process but it will be a bit more difficult because it needs to be. Because we have approved so much development that should not have been approved in areas where it should not have been approved. So… I hope that - that is where the public is. They are ready to say "stop all building." I do not want to get there. I want to have responsible growth. So, Michael, we still do not know where we are with maps, my understanding you that we really cannot start maps until you get more information from us? MICHAEL G DYER: It can be the same meeting and using the some fundamental questions of how you want to approach it that we could bring to you, if you could give us direction and you could have your GIS remapping staff and their to start working on it. JEFFREY S BROWER: What would the process be for actually writing an amendment? How would the public be included in that? MICHAEL G DYER: It would all occur at public meetings. In the past, this involved multiple drafts being presented to the charter review commission, and the Council depending on who was working on it, to refine the language. The 2006 charter amendments, one of them included a map, so, we had to finalize our map and get the charter review Commissioner on council to approve those. So, we would be working with your mapping staff in that regard. Another thing that this County, this is a common area of litigation on referenda. You have to have a bylaw title in the summary near the right those correctly. For your charter amendment referendum, the same thing happens with the state constitution, it can be thrown out. So, once we kind of know what is to be done once we get the language refined, we would work on that effort. What the process looks like is in the end, you would adopt a resolution, calling for a referenda election requires a vote of five of this Council. And that is what orange county just recently did. Putting it on the ballot you would give to the supervisor of election, the charter says this would be the next general election. In this case it would be November 2026. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you, if I understood the March 25 meeting, I think part of that was that this would necessarily go to the charter review committee, so, we will have to vote on that. Is that a required step? Or can the Council make the decision on its own? MICHAEL G DYER: Treader has the independent authority to put the charter amendment on the ballot. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you, and also for the clear understanding of the public, you are dust this morning and discussion. Person after person said that the annexation is what is affecting their neighborhood to the most. You and I discussed this yesterday. You have been very helpful for a couple years now in this area, and it is frustrating to me, not what you said, but it's frustrating of the voice that we have for our citizens, the people that we represent in Volusia County. They do have the ability, it comes up to the city, a landowner would go to the city and state they want is unincorporated land annexed into the city. And then those Volusia County unincorporated residents can go to the city, where they do not have representation. And they can appeal, but like I said this morning, to people who are not voting for and that they are not representing.... Can you put that paper I just put you... this is Florida statute 171.044. I want to make sure that I understand this correctly. I think this is exactly as you have explained the local process to me. Voluntary annexation, really all I'm trying to find out is, so, do the owners or owners over real property in an unincorporated area of the county, which is contiguous to a municipality and reasonably compact. They may petition the governing body of said municipality that said property be annexed to the municipality. Upon determination by the governing body of the municipality, not the county. That the petitioner bears the signature of all owners of property in the area proposed to be annexed. Is that area that is proposed to be annexed just within that line of the annexed property? Or is it including the people outside of that line and the greater neighborhood? MICHAEL G DYER: Just the property owner of the property to be annexed. JEFFREY S BROWER: So, it is clear that the only people that have a say in it is the land owner, and the city, people can go to the city, but they cannot go to their own representative, and that is the most powerful tool I see here, I'm dealing with it in several different neighborhoods, where people are under the threat, there is their word, the threat of being annexed. They do not want to be, the property owner might want to be, but it would dramatically change the nature of their neighborhood. And people buy-in and neighborhood often because they feel like they have some protection with the zoning and the land use in place. And then they find out that they do not. One property owner can get that changed if the city is willing. When they annex it in, they change our zoning and they change our comp plan. That is why it needed, gives her own residence in unincorporated Volusia County, clear voice by us the representatives. No promises given but at least they have representation through that process. Vice Chair Kent? TROY KENT: Thank you, chairman. And thank you for bringing this up. If you are looking for a no growth person, it is not me. I'm never going to be that guy that is going to say no growth ever, it's not going to happen. I'm just being totally transparent with you, that is not me. In the same breath, with me it has to make sense, tons of comic sense and has to be responsible. I will tell you gentlemen a quick little side story. In 2009, there was an unnamed storm in Volusia County and in three days it dumped over 30 inches of rain in Ormond Beach. 90% of that rain fell in 18 hours, and the part of Central Park in Ormond Beach could not handle that amount of water. We had over 30 homes get flooded, Mayor Partington and I, was then Commissioner Partington, we flew to Washington DC and met with Congressman (unknown name) we came home with $6 million in FEMA dollars, we interconnected the lakes of Central Park and Ormond Beach, so, we could bring them down before any type of major rain came. We purchased many of the homes that flooded and turn that into a retention area. We have not had that kind of rain again, but we had serious rain and we have not flooded since. That men and women that came in here today and talked about the acres they own, she has lived in DeLand her whole life and they have not flooded until recently. That stuff hits home with me because I know they are being honest. Yes, there has been a lot of rain, but when you are allowed development to come in, unbridled element and to come in and put Dragon Makah, I do not owe and accurate ASEC six feet tall. They spent $180,000 of their own money so it would quit flooding, most people do not have those types of resources to protect the most important thing that they have. I have not seen unbridled growth by this council, I will speak for myself, I have voted down every... even if it was small growth development in DeLand, I have been a no vote on it because they cannot handle the traffic, they do not have a handle on the flooding. I told you, common sense for me, now is that I'm also not a no growth-er, if we can handle the traffic in the flooding, listen, we have capacity and we can do that. But this is a common theme that we keep hearing up here, flooding. I will tell you, in my past life as Ormond Beach city Commissioner for 19 years, growth rate was 1% or less everything a year. I'm proud of that, but truth be told, Orman's buildout, there can't be a closer go there and there will never be exposing growth there. Now you come over here, parts of Daytona, Deltona, there are some places where you can have some real growth. We better get a handle on it. We better have a good answer for it. Because our bosses and the people that put us in these rented chairs, they expect an answer. They deserve an answer. Not to play politics or timing or anything like that, that is not what this is. Chairman, I gave you credit but I do not know how much credit you really deserve, I say that while I'm smiling because I love that other areas have done it first. We have seen what orange county and our Seminole County are participating in. And we have people screaming for help. You know, they are almost always in rural areas. They are in rural areas and they are getting hammered with water. Except for our mid town area, Councilman Reinhart, you and I share our district right there on our line. We have people screaming for help there. We need to get our act together and get our house lined up correctly. We need to do a trip to Washington DC and come home with some real money to help out Midtown and get that fixed the way we got Ormond and that one location fixed. And then we have to, we have to address this. This issue that you are talking about, chairman. The issue that we will either talk about sooner rather than later, this is a healthy discussion that needs to happen. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. That has just been my point, let's wrap this up, we have a lot more to do today, some of it applies to growth, a big one. (Laughs) a big one between Ormond and Daytona Beach. Mike, are you and Clay, are you more confused or less confused? It has been said that we gave you direction to go and get started. What you feel like you can get started with? SPEAKER: Yeah, that is really not for Mike. That is more so my area. So, we've heard the discussion. We have the professionals here that will come up with some alternatives, we do not really get to the exact map because it's unfair to you guys to pull it out of the air. We will put together some scenarios of what other people have done and how it has been done in other places. Maps and actual map that we looked at in 2006, and we will update and go over several different approaches that can be taken. Yes, we have enough to get us started and to get to Marge. JEFFREY S BROWER: What you did with maps only had to change zoning for every district after the census was ideal, in my opinion. You gave a six or seven different maps. GEORGE RECKTENWALD: That is the idea. JEFFREY S BROWER: That we can all look at and come to agreement on, the public got to see it and they get to comment on it. So, that is what I am hoping for, it sounds like that is what you feel unleashed to go there. Back GEORGE RECKTENWALD: Yes, we've already met, there are already meetings that have taken place. And more to follow, and probably a project like this, we will be setting up a team, an internal team that will be working on this from now until March. So, come March, we won't have a repeat of this, and we will be on the same level and will have more to work with at that point. JEFFREY S BROWER: Any other questions from counsel? Yes? DAVID SANTIAGO: Just a point of clarification for my part. I think the conversation is healthy. I've never had a problem with the conversation. My comments from earlier today just to make sure that the public was clear because we heard a lot about flooding and rain growth boundaries, what does not need the other to exist. They can exist separately. I know we talked about low impact development which I've been vocally supportive of. I would say, let's get some of those standards and start writing them, I do not have a problem with looking at them. Even, if you recall, one of the last development I was talking about the ponds and how they relate out, can we do something differently and ponds, so, we do not affect potentially neighbors next door? Again, not an engineer I cannot speak to the science behind it. But the conversation is healthy. Again, clarifying, one has nothing to do with the other, and this process did begin two weeks ago, that is why staff is already has things in the pipeline. I only repeat that because there were some commentary from the public to the point that we were kicking the can down the road, I think that's workable people said. We did not, we started the process two weeks ago. Today was good and healthy, I don't have a problem with it I look forward to the facts. Let's look at it, and if we do adopt an urban boundary and if that comes to completion, then we follow that, that is the law of the land. And I am OK with that. Thank you Mr chair. JEFFREY S BROWER: We are off running. Thank you for the discussion and input. I hope the public has a better understanding, they are literally pleading with us like I have seen in Edgewater where they are at the end of it and want something done. We will move on to item 8 approval of the action report summarizing the discussion held at the County Counsel workshop on July 23. This was a workshop on zoning. CLAY ERVIN: Yes sir, Clay Ervin. As you stated, we had a workshop on the 23rd, as such we're not able to come to final directives to staff. Staff took the documentation that we presented to you and heard from there what we thought you wanted us to go forward with. We put together the table included in your agenda packet to go over and summarize what we heard. Basically there were four items. The first was pertaining to the list of permitted uses within the eye to the zoning. We saw that you did not necessarily want us to change regulations at this point in time without first contact and looking at what options could be done with them. And looking at being able to come back with their concurrence, potential changes that would address the open wide, permitted use that is allowed in the I 2 zoning. This basically summarizes that for all three items that we asked you on. If that is the direction you agree with them we can proceed from there. We did hear that this was a pressing issue and from at least one of you that we did need to make this something that gets accomplished very quickly. In order to get through this I will play Herb Marlow, not as well as he does. Here are the posed questions. Do you agree with what the answers are in the right-hand column and that is that the direction that staff should proceed? JEFFREY S BROWER: I will start. I wanted I-2, I think I said at the meeting then, that was the top priority that we look at that and it changing that. It is similar to the rural boundary amendment that we should constantly be looking at changing. County, how that affects zoning, do we need to change zoning? I-2 we have learned a sense that this came up that all of our I-2 zoning is all on one road. It is now a residential neighbourhood and the sports complex. I think it needs to be changed. At least by approval with the special exception. You said here is that councilmembers did not wish to change zoning regulations. I would ask the Council if that is the case, how they would like to carry it out? I want that to be the first priority and have it come back that we look at I-2. Because we are sitting on a timebomb. Not just for fuel distribution facility, but chlorine gas company could come in. Anybody. It is so broad that it allows almost anything. That is my concern with that one. Councilman Santiago? DAVID SANTIAGO: I am trying to reflect on my memory, Clay. The Council decided on the middle one right? CLAY ERVIN: We worked through the different levels of specificity. The first one is talking about specifically an application in the development process, how do you want to handle it? Then we were talking about what the current I-2, could they be exempted from any of the proposed changes? In the third question is the larger broader area saying, change all of the I-2 abuses because they are too wide open. As I stated to the Council, we all agree that the first permitted use identified in the I-2 needs work. What we have heard is first and foremost, staff go to these five property owners and indicate the Council wants to protect their rights. But at the same point rain in some of these uses that are detrimental and come up with some alternatives. Then from there what we can do is report back to the Council and try to get that process working. In regards to the top one, that is saying at this point we are not going to touch those properties and have a valid application and at this point. They are still governed by the I2.. Drafted, but with these other properties go forward and to see what can be done. DAVID SANTIAGO: You need us to pick one today? GEORGE RECKTENWALD: That's not it at all. We have a plan here that has been laid out. And I think everyone had the opportunity to read it. If you agree with the plan, that is how we will head out. It is not to rehash everything needed at the other meeting do you agree with the plan, here is the plan and we are often running with that. We will be back with subsequent decisions. That is all we are at today. This is summarized and make sure we heard you guys correctly. Because remember, he said it was a workshop. You guys could not make any motions to tell us what to do. We have captured it all, we have written it out. The summary highlight also lays it out. If everybody is in agreement then that is the plan and that is where we will be going. DAVID SANTIAGO: With the plan, this summary here. It is not endorsing every single one? I want to make sure I'm clear? DON DEMPSEY: Can I help? Do you mind? When we talked about this with Mr. Marlow, Clay is just showing us that the majority of the Council, with an application that was already rocking and rolling the majority of the Council said they did not want to change that. A couple of us if my memory is correct were willing to roll the dice. I look at Mike Dyer over there and said I am willing to spin the taxpayer money and turn Mike Dyer loose in defending anybody who wants to bring nonsense into Volusia County, like the project from El Grupo Mexico in the fuel farm. I was on the losing end of this. Does anyone know what the vote was? Was it five – four? The third one I am alright with but the first two I do not like. I thought it was terrible, and I still think it is terrible today. You help me. I was losing on that one. Am I bringing it back for you? (Laughs) You and I were opposite on this but it is not too late for you to change your mind. You could do it right now. DAVID SANTIAGO: I'm good. DON DEMPSEY: Bernhardt I will not leave you out of it. DAVID SANTIAGO: I am good Mr. chair. This is an accurate summary.. (LAUGHTER) DAVID SANTIAGO: Motion to accept and give staff advice as outlined? JEFFREY S BROWER: I don't know what that means yet. Troy… JEFFREY S BROWER: I cannot see it… TROY KENT: ... JEFFREY S BROWER: It seems like everyone agrees that something must happen. TROY KENT: They did not want to touch anything that was happening in anybody's opportunity if they could. But we all in the future, or most of us wanted to make that change. JEFFREY S BROWER: I think we need a motion to saying get I2 done. DAVID SANTIAGO: I am waiting on a second. JEFFREY S BROWER: I cannot make a motion… TROY KENT: I cannot remember if it was a five – two vote. If it was, unless one of these three gentlemen that voted for this showed me a little twinge of hope here, I am not going to spin my wheels on this right now anymore. George said, he mentioned this was not a rehashing. It was a workshop and we cannot take formal action. Now we are taking formal action. It is not too late David, Matt or Don. JEFFREY S BROWER: We are saying we accept this. Clay I would ask you, it says the majority of the Council expresses there is a need to change it. Is there a timeframe on that? CLAY ERVIN: The workshop you cannot take a vote on what it was and so this is where… JEFFREY S BROWER: Did you all hear that? That was really important. CLAY ERVIN: If you agree with what is stated here, which basically is this, staff is to contact property owners. Identify the Council did have a concern with how the zoning was written and we do want to work with the property owners to amend that so we do not have uses that we are finding to be unacceptable continued in there. There is an issue with those properties that currently have the I-2 zoning and have an application and process. We would not be jeopardizing that. In other words we heard the Council felt that that needed to be respected and carried over through and not stopped because of this zoning change we are talking about. Also, the second one where we were trying to say from this point forward, anyone who would rezone their property I-2 until we have heard from the property owners that they may be willing to work with us. But those five existing properties right now could operate underneath that. That is where you will said we do not want to so why do we want to go ahead and make changes without their input? Our first and foremost step is we are going to draft what we think will be critical points, meet with the property owners. Identify what we have is concerns regards to the existing uses listed as permitted in the I2. Hear what they have to say, workup what we feel is a valid change to the zoning and to get through the process and planning of land development commission and the County Council. We know this is an important issue and we will be working on it as soon as we can. JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman Rinehart? Don't go away Clay, he will have questions for you. MATT REINHART: For clarification, we are agreeing the summation of this is correct. I actually do agree with that fact trying to work with the property owner. Everyone up here was concerned about a lawsuit, I am just going to say it. And working with them and bring all people to the table certainly helps. I am alright with that. I think we all agreed. Like a justice majority of Council members expressed the opinion that some form of change is needed. Staff shall review the I2 and recommend changes and that is giving with those property owners. That is why was Ok. With the second motion JEFFREY S BROWER: OK, so, no meeting with homeowners.... Give you actual direction. I want to... I do not know what you are going to offer them. I want to make sure that the Council giving you clear direction - what I remembered was that we could grandfather… I do not think anyone up here has a problem with the existing businesses on Hall Road. That we are happy to let them stay. We need their business furthermore. We would like not to see that level of intensity increase, so, you will find out if they are good with that. SPEAKER: Yes, sir. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK, does everybody agree with that? DAVID SANTIAGO: I do not know if I could agree with the verbiage, Mr chair. Just want to be clear from my perspective with the level of intensity that is proposed. I understand the conversations we have had, I understand the public's opinion. But to be clean in this process, we intend to change the I-2 zoning that some additional production to the county on the types of businesses that can go there. I am wordsmithing Mr chair, I understand where you're coming from. But if they could support if you're asking me to acknowledge the verbiage to be clear at least from my part. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK. I'm not going to ask the attorney, he is in discussion. MICHAEL G SPEAKER: Just to clarify from the staff perspective what we heard in July and what we are hearing now is that the provision in I 2, which is that any industrial use of land or structures allowed by right in the letter I and 2 zoning is a problem. We have to get rid of that and come back with a list of permitted uses that are acceptable to the property owner, and are also not jeopardizing the public's health safety or welfare, due to the type of use being too intense for that area. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK, we all agree on that, what is there now is not sufficient, and we need to change it, why do we have to ask permission of the property owners? SPEAKER: It was an effort to try to assure that we were helping to deflect some of their concerns that may result in a lawsuit. The whole idea... SPEAKER: Clay, if I could try to help. Mr Chairman, if it is OK... with the majority of the Council during the workshop said was for properties that had an existing application, we were not going to wish to make any zoning regulation changes that would impact them. Similarly, for those properties that have I-2 currently on them, no changes to the zoning regulations that would impact them. That is the first sentence on the middle bar. You did ask us to look at I-2 for properties that may be zoned in the future because we have a lot of future land use that would allow for reasoning without a comp plan amendment. And we would like to close the gap on this use category, having said all of that, there was some conversation, let's get to the property owners, maybe their plans on how Road are not going to be intractable, let's find that out and try to work with them. But this did not impact how we would amend I-2. The majority of you said you would not impact those properties currently have zoning because of the potential for virtue Harrison other applications. That is what is captured here on item 8, similarly for the subsequent two pages, it was the summary of the direction you gave us on special exceptions. And infield development, we are prepared to go through more of those list oriented. I think we have captured all of your comments here and that is what we are looking for confirmation on this afternoon. JEFFREY S BROWER: Vice Chair, Kent? TROY KENT: Thank you, Chairman, I just wanted counsel to know that I was on the losing end of this during that workshop discussion. It was not a formal vote, we were not allowed to take a formal vote during the workshop but I was on the losing end on that, I agree with the third part completely, I think it's a wonderful idea. But I am more aggressive on the first two. Because I'm more aggressive on the first will be voting no for the first two today because I do not agree with you on the workshop and I still do not agree with it today. I want to turn Michael Dyer, by the way I say that because you not know but we get updates and all the legal issues that the county has, I confirmed with Mike. Is my memory correct? Have you all won every case and his counsel has been seated? And he said, "yes liquid. So, he is batting a thousand. DAVID SANTIAGO: But he cannot hit a curve ball though, that is what I learned happened. TROY KENT: Keep throwing them straight. JEFFREY S BROWER: This will affect my vote, Clay or whoever wants to answer it. At what point do we tackle the zoning on the property that the group of Mexico owns? SPEAKER: Based on this, we are not making any changes to that, that was the way it was discussed. JEFFREY S BROWER: Ever? If they take the fuel distribution facility to Flagler, we still leave it alone? And we can go through all of this again? SPEAKER: Right now, yes. I mean, as was just summarized, the direction we said was those with a valid application in its current zoning, and working towards it in the future. And again, working with the current I-2 owners to see their willing to help out the crafting of the language. JEFFREY S BROWER: Well, we are never willing to look at that particular property and reduce or put some safeguards in the zoning there, I think that is a dereliction of duty, I'm a hard know on that. We ought to be not giving them special... I'm OK with letting it play out and let them move, frankly I do not trust them to not come back with something worse. They have already proven they do not care about that neighborhood. David Santiago? DAVID SANTIAGO: Thank you, Mr chair. I just want to say I would not describe it as never. I would describe it as at this time, we are not going to and this counsel can address it again at any time, whatever the will of the counselors at that time. JEFFREY S BROWER: That is not what I just heard, I thought he just said never. Did you not say, never? SPEAKER: Sir, if the Council tells us to go and fight it, we will fight it. If the Council tells us... JEFFREY S BROWER: Right now it's never? GEORGE RECKTENWALD: It would follow the category decide we would still talk to Grupo Mexico or really FBC railway, and find out what their intention is. If this goes to another location, what would be the intention of that property? And maybe we could work with some sort of, like I said, a deal or an agreement, or if they will put a stone yard or something there that would be less obtrusive to others. We would have to see what their plans really are. Which is the same thing we said we would do with the chips dozer and the other properties along there, we said we would go talk to them before we end up in more of a fight and find out, the reason we are happy with what we got and we are OK if we do want to put some caps on that or we may have to negotiator may be a price to do that. But that has to be handled differently than I think some of the other stuff we talked about with trying to get ahead of any other future issues to prevent this on other properties that could go to I-2. I think it is important, at least, that we go forward with that, and I think that was a big part of what came out of that workshop. Well, let's try to make sure that we close the gap on any of these other possibilities going forward. So, we do not have this again. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK. David, your name is still up, is that leftover? We have one member of the public that wants to speak, I feel a little like we are being held hostage. We cannot look at changing the zoning on that property until they allow us to come I think we are opening up the neighborhood to further problems. Catherine (unknown name)? And then we will vote on this. SPEAKER: Catherine (unknown name) Daytona Beach. **Audio lost** **Audio restored** SPEAKER: ...I-2 and some of those other properties, they're not using internet capacity can make go back? Is there any way they can have a time-limited build on it and it switches back within a year if it's undeveloped? We do not have to have that I-2 hanging out in that area? To revert back to its original zoning which is agricultural in that area. Part of that land is still zoned agricultural. JEFFREY S BROWER: Go ahead and complete your statement and we can see if Michael Dyer has a legal opinion. I have never heard of that or CNET. SPEAKER: It was prior agricultural, it has not been built on for a long time, they've owned it since 2017, zoning was changed in 2006. They purchased it with I-2, and several years later they want to develop on it. Why can't we have something in place where something is hanging out there like that it reverts back to the original zoning if somebody had it changed and it was unused? It was originally changed for cement and batching plant which is totally different than a fuel terminal. And that is very much allowed to say on it. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK, I think that would be retroactive... SPEAKER: Thank you Troy and Councilman Reinhart. JEFFREY S BROWER: I've never seen that happen before, Councilman Reinhart? MATT REINHART: Thank you, chair, I know there's a couple different opinions on here. I was under the mindset that if this person or company did not come in, that seems to be everybody's fear. I use that term loosely. If they were to go to another location, and we were to hear about that and confirm that, that we could revisit this particular property. You are saying we can do that or are using we cannot do that? GEORGE RECKTENWALD: Whether it's this property or any property. What we are saying is that they already have I-2. In order to not have that you either have to talk to them and get them to do it voluntarily, or find out what the price is to not... MATT REINHART: Let me clarify, I'm sorry, I think I went the wrong language on that. To clean up the I-2, we are agreeing to do that though,? GEORGE RECKTENWALD: That was the plan, but there are properties that are I-1 and could become I-2... MATT REINHART: We can clean up the current I-2 to do that? GEORGE RECKTENWALD: If they agree to it, yes. MATT REINHART: If they agree to it? I understand. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK. Did you get another public input? SPEAKER: I advised that the open comment section has been closed. JEFFREY S BROWER: We do have a motion. Are you thinking? DON DEMPSEY: Just so I'm clear, part of this plan is to go back and talk to them and see if they would basically sell us the rights to do certain things on the property? GEORGE RECKTENWALD: That is part of it but the main part like we said, we got out of the workshop and there was a discussion with a full body, it was just to make sure that this does not happen again on another property by closing that hole, and then we will go back and do what we can on those that already have it. But at least this will start a conversation. And they may say forget it or for X amount of dollars. Or they may say they're happy what they are doing here now. We want to be great members of the community, and we will just go with what you want. Or we will come up with something in between. But that is a different process, for those three properties, that are up there, versus all of the other properties that we are trying to prevent this from happening. Somewhere else. DON DEMPSEY: Mike, I have a lot of faith in your staff and you guys, but is there a likelihood that this could be removed to federal court of this really got heated? MICHAEL G DYER: It's possible. DON DEMPSEY: They had Gray Robinson? MICHAEL G DYER: I would assume any property, a few are changing the uses for an existing zone property and raising, there is a good risk there ... That is a state statute (indiscernible). Which could be joined with some federal cause of action. I think just looking at item 8, recalling your meeting I think that is why you said we wanted to change the ordinance for I-2 because it has additional property(indiscernible) we do not want to encounter this problem again... But then the thought of the conversation to have existing I-2 to see if we could down zone or purchase development rights or what have you. As George said, that may have a cost to it. It would be a voluntary process. That is one approach. DON DEMPSEY: If you went up route to federal court it would be quite possible that it would not be your staff. They would have to hire a private firm? MICHAEL G DYER: It would probably be us. DON DEMPSEY: Would we get another firm to help with that? MICHAEL G DYER: We are in federal court routinely for land-use matters. I first reaction would be we could handle it. That was the direction. I think where this whole report, it was your staff coming back to you to say this is what counsel said. You may have disagreed with it or agreed with that but this is a reflection of what counsel did and it gives you the opportunity to give public on input as well. DON DEMPSEY: OK, alright. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Last thing for me and then we will wrap this up. It still sounds like to me what we are saying is, we are going to ask all the property owners their permission to change it. Some of us, I think more than two of us feel like that area has changed. It is now residential. It is not appropriate anymore that businesses that are there, I am happy for us to go talk to them and say we are glad you are here. We hope you will not increase intensity, talk to them about it and disarm that. When we are saying that we will ask another property's owner's permission to not protect the citizens there adequately by even adding a special exception so that the Council gets a vote on what goes there, we are walking away from our responsibility. If I am understanding you correctly, that is what we are saying. MICHAEL G DYER: This is what we heard from counsel when this was taken up, the direction that was given. JEFFREY S BROWER: Ok. I am a no. Who made the motion? What is your motion? DAVID SANTIAGO: To acknowledge the staff they have accurately summarized what the County Council decided in the workshop, as outlined. I think… JEFFREY S BROWER: Without any direction to actually do any of it? DAVID SANTIAGO: Yes. I think that is why they brought it on the agenda. JEFFREY S BROWER: Ok. Motion by David Santiago second by Matt Reinhardt. Krista any other comments or questions? Can you call the roll? (Roll call) JEFFREY S BROWER: Item 9. CLAY ERVIN: We are not through item 8. We have to have the discussions about special exceptions. (indiscernible) Oh, that was for the whole thing? I'm sorry. DAVID SANTIAGO: He wanted us here another five hours. (LAUGHTER) JEFFREY S BROWER: Item 9 to appeal to County Counsel of the review... Denial of an overall plan. CLAY ERVIN: The appellant Mr. and Mrs. Scarsella have purchased land… Located south of Pioneer Road 44. Basically, Ranch at Road is the primary route of access, south of Pioneer Trail. As it is provided in your staff report we have had similar situations occurring in the past. Unfortunately, this is part of Florida's history where we had subdivisions that were created on paper, sold throughout the 50s and 60s, even as far back as the 1920s. Where people purchased land, they did not have infrastructure. They did not have any development rights at that point. Unfortunately, what occurred for many of these areas is that when we were going through the comprehensive plan processes in the 80s and 90s and even as early as 1976 when the county established the subdivision regulations, they did not qualify for investing. Investing is basically saying there is adequate infrastructure for you to go forward and use your property. And not put the public's health, safety and welfare at risk. We have established in chapter 72 – 53 what are the conditions to be - SPEAKER: We lost quorum. If we can wait. CLAY ERWIN: ... Identifies how we determine whether or not your vested lot or not. (indiscernible) subdivision regulation. If you had your subdivision under development and he met the criteria, it is a vested lot. The subject property is not within a vested subdivision. We have had multiple requests to try and develop within the area. And what you see is there are 2048 lots, all of Simon 1.25 acres within this paper plat. These are lots that could be developed if it complied with the exemption but they do not. They do not comply with the land use, they do not comply with the zoning which requires one unit per 10 acres and they do not comply with the land regulation developments, which requires safe sufficient paved access. They also have to provide proof of water, sewer and storm water if eligible. They applicant submitted an application for an overall development plan. That is how we as staff process, request for these nonvested lands to determine if they meet the criteria for being developed. Your technical staff went through it. That is everyone from development engineering through zoning land development, planning etc.. All of them identified concerns in regards to the vesting. And again it was identified it does not comply with the minimum lot area, does not comply with the minimum lot width or provide for sufficient infrastructure. So, your development and review committee denied the overall development plan. Ms (Name) is present and speaking on why she feels she should be entitled to be granted an overall development plan and be able to proceed on with her development. The attorney Mr. Powell is making sure if there is any ex parte communication it would be disclosed prior to actually taking action. JEFFREY S BROWER: Is this a quasijudicial hearing… it did not say on it. SPEAKER: That is why we ask for ex parte. It is also an appeal but you can take into account additional evidence. It is a de novo type hearing, a do over. You can re-weigh evidence and consider new evidence resented by the applicant. It is not like a variance appeal where you are limited to the record from the underlying board. Here you have the determination of the DRC and any additional evidence that may be presented or you can ask, take into account. JEFFREY S BROWER: Anybody - I have no ex parte to declare. Anybody else? Nobody has talked to them. We will have questions for staff. Councilman Santiago? DAVID SANTIAGO: What is she looking to do for the property? SPEAKER: Put a single-family home. JEFFREY S BROWER: What size lot? CLAY ERVIN: 1.25 acres. Zone A1 which requires a 10 acre, while we are saying it is not consistent with the zoning. Carolyn McFarlane wanted to make sure it was clarified, the reason why you see is making a big deal about roadways specifically infrastructure, is that fire emergency management, garbage trucks, school trucks etc. need to be able to get access in the area. We do not have dedicated public or private easements in that area that are properly maintained by an entity. Basically it is the owners of the land that are down there right now who are doing the best to maintain that areas thus they can. We have a situation where from a county staff perspective we cannot guarantee access to this property. I understand that property owners may say, "it is alright for us we understand that." But eventually the property will be sold. Your land use and zoning regulations are really consumer protections. It is such that anyone who buys that property, has a clear understanding that they should be able to receive the services they feel are due to them from the county. If we see that that will not be possible we want to make sure it is available. DAVID SANTIAGO: Hey, Clay, I am looking at the aerial. Can you bring the aerial up? That one. (indiscernible) This should be a structure here. SPEAKER: There are homes developed in the area. These are homes that may have been developed prior to 1976. There is an area that is replanted... And a private easement was granted in those areas met the land use and zoning requirements. So what happened is that people aggregated the property. If any of these property owners worked together to each get 10 acres in size, and work together to have roads, stormwater and those things they could develop out there. But unfortunately what you see is because it is this antiquated subdivision, where you have these areas. These are all 1.25 acre tracts as opposed to the 10 acre tracts which are required. DAVID SANTIAGO: Is it safe to say the majority of those - I know you cannot speak to that - and probably owned by different people. CLAY ERVIN: That is one of the problems we have out there. This is similar to West Highlands and (Name) estate. These are antiquated subdivisions that do not have the infrastructure necessary, were not considered vested. But unfortunately you have multiple ownership out there. There are over 2000's of these lots out there right now. Candidly, if this pattern is allowed to continue the problems we have in Daytona Park Estates will be minor compared to what occur out here. DAVID SANTIAGO: Thank you Mr. chair. I would like to hear from the applicant. JEFFREY S BROWER: Any other questions for staff? Let's call the applicant up and hear from Sherry before we continue. SPEAKER: Am I limited to three minutes (Laughs)? Ok, good. A lot has happened since I was listening to you guys. My husband and I grew up here in this Port Orange area. Both of us graduated from (Name) high school and our kids are born at Halifax Hospital. We have worked here. I have just recently returned to teaching. You guys are talking about the teaching process. I also worked in the construction industry for 25 years. If you guys look and records you will see my name signed bazillion times on notice of commitments and things like that. I am well-versed when it comes to construction and the way our industry works. OK, now back down to my script. After facing major financial hardship during COVID, my husband and I actually just recently sold our house in Edgewater. And with those funds, we actually purchased this piece of property, hopefully to kind of rebuild and restart again because COVID really affected our family. We believe we can meet all of the regulations that were required, the prior owner that we bought the property from had put in an application to get a building permit, and I received a copy of those staff comments before we even purchase the property. I read through all of those comments and realized with my extensive knowledge, that I should have the ability to comply with every single thing that is needed in order to get the vesting rights. So, we kind of continued to proceed and go through there and that we had our first meeting as the owners in April, and we noticed this trend of the comment responses, answers kept changing. There was a constant one time it is approved for comments another time it is now a continuation. Then it is denial, this one was approved, now it is not approved. There was a lot of confusion as to what criteria do you want us to do. The piece of property does not have wetlands, it has met... what is that called? The plan. All of the ellipses there is no wildlife issues, there is no endangered species, of trees, none of that stuff. It's literally the perfect piece of property to be able to build on. We also met with the fire marshal and his assistant out at the property to discuss possible issues with fire, you know, access and all that kind of stuff. He gave us his blessing and said everything was perfect, as long as you guys have a turnaround driveway, and happy and content and make sure you put this type of material down. We are complying with that, we are complying with the type of house we will be putting into, whatever square footage is required for the zoning. We meet all setbacks, everything, the only issue we are facing is they are denying us the right to vest the property to be able to build because of the infrastructure issues that he brought up. My argument back to that is when I purchased this piece of property, I was not informed of that. We called the county, I have tons of documentation on how I did all of the research, I know what the codes are, and everything. Vesting was not the issue when we originally bought the property, that was not brought up to us at all. They kept on saying, fire safety will be an issue. OK, we overcame that hurdle. So, that is the biggest thing, this piece of property does not have flooding issues, we just went out right after the hurricane that we just had, no flooding issues at all. So, that is kind of what we are asking, we are at the point now are my husband and I purchased this piece of property, we are living in a camper with our two kids, hoping we can build our house in get out there. If they do not allow us to build on this piece of property, I am now stuck dead in the water with a $50,000 piece of property, and possible homelessness. You are talking to a teacher. You are talking to a former police officer, we have worked for this community. All we are asking is for the right to be able to build because we cannot afford to go buy one of those three or $400,000 houses that they are all building out there. We want to be out in the what's, we grew up here, we are four wheelers, we like all that stuff and that is all we are asking for. Give us the right to build come over not doing major impact, one our little farm out there and our plans, all of that kind of stuff. I am pleading to you guys because this was literally the last hurdle that we have. Any questions? JEFFREY S BROWER: Counsel, questions? The biggest hurdle here is acreage. CLAY ERVIN: I can understand the confusion in regards to this because in your agenda packet we include the entire package we provide as part of the development review committee review, what you will see is that goes to mosquito control, to engineering, to everything else. What you will see is those specific divisions will recommend approval of the projects because if it meets their definition of what they have to look at, they will. The critical one that you need to look at is at the land development, zoning, and planning. Which identified recommendation of denial because it does not comply with the land-use and the zoning. The land-use out there is agricultural resource, that requires a minimum density of one unit per 10 acres. The zoning requires one unit per 10 acres because it is A1. So, that is why you are seeing it. From a staff perspective, we cannot approve it because it's inconsistent with the complainant inconsistent with the zoning ordinance. The third criteria which is established in 72 503 of our coaches it has to comply with land of element regulations, that is where the definition of paved access and being able to get there. Just as the access issue but it's the fact of the land use in the zoning require a minimum 10 acre lot, and this does not comply with that. So, we cannot approve that because it's inconsistent with the comp plan, and inconsistent with the zoning ordinance. So, that is where we are at. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK. Yes, no, I had a question for the applicant, but go ahead while he is up. DAVID SANTIAGO: Clay, one quick question, is this a policy decision for us? CLAY ERVIN: It is an appeal, I will let (unknown name) describe what you need to do in regards to an appeal basically that is where you are sitting as a judge and utilizing the evidence we are providing to you to make a determination as to whether or not your staff properly enforced the comp plan code in this application. SPEAKER: Clay is correct, this is not a policy decision. That is when the chair asked if this was a quasijudicial hearing? Yes, judicial hearings are not policymaking provisions, it is the application of policy. Does the proposal, which is a one lot ODP, one lot subdivision, does meet the requirements of the current criteria? Does it meet the conference of plan? Does it meet terms of density and zoning? Is it me to the land of element code? Those are the provisions, and on that evidence that they do meet, the DRC is correct, you can rely on that evidence and approve it, but that is an evidence-based determination and not a policy type decision. DAVID SANTIAGO: I understand what you're saying, can I elaborate a little bit Mr chair? JEFFREY S BROWER: Please. DAVID SANTIAGO: If we had a policy, where would it be? It is I think you know where I'm going with this but you have a policy guy, right? So, if there was a policy in place that would allow us to have an additional criteria to review these and make whatever decision we decide, maybe take into factors the surrounding parcels, would that give us more latitude? SPEAKER: Yes, if you are asking where were that policy lie? It would be in your comprehensive plan. Because fundamentally, your comprehensive plan is your Constitution of growth, and this has implications for conference of plant consistency. So, you can have a policy that says, regardless of a lot that does not meet the density provisions, if you view it surroundings, you can have criteria that allows for that type of civic situation. DAVID SANTIAGO: Would that be a minor complaint amendment? SPEAKER: No. DAVID SANTIAGO: Major? I just want to understand because it sound like a bad word, major. Thank you, Mr Jacob I will wait to SPEAKER: . JEFFREY S BROWER: I want to emphasize and clarify that even though there may not be flooding pertaining on this particular property if you go to Ranjit Road after a major storm, accesses copper mice at that point. Getting back to the issue of policy aspects, we are implementing the policy of the County Council the company and supplant. I would be remiss because as your staff, I hear the pain that you are all going through with Daytona estates right now in all the problems we face. This is in our situation, listen Daytona Park Estates, we have roads that are been accepted and can be maintained. These are not even public roads, they are not even private roads per se. These are just paper roads that were put in a plat that was recorded and sold, but never developed to be at a level. DAVID SANTIAGO: With that said, Clay, given that description you just gave, we have any obligation at that point for any services as it pertains to flooding? At some of the other descriptions you gave. Because we do not have any dedicated roads to us or landed road, where does our liability finish there? CLAY ERVIN: We do not have any liability from that, but Ben will be able to talk more. SPEAKER: The roads are private, this is not just they are not maintained, they are private roads, we have no legal access down there, we are not talking 100 yards or 200 yards, we're talking multiple miles to get down to ranch at where these lots are. Since I've been with it County and in public works, we've dealt with multiple situations where roads have become impassable, private roads subdivisions, there's one off 40, I do not remember the name of it. And other locations where there is private dirt roads where we have storm events and things like that to become a path for emergency vehicles we still have garbage service, we have private roads that are impassable that have culverts that are not being maintained because they are private. They have to drag their trash cans hundreds of yards. DAVID SANTIAGO: Are your crews going in there to do work? So, they are alone to do their own services exception of garbage and mail, probably? Thank you, Ben, and Clay. Thank you, Mr chair. JEFFREY S BROWER: Vice Chair Kent? TROY KENT: Were your ears burning earlier? Earlier in the break I said I did not see you for months. Someone said to me that you did and I saw you today comes, I'm glad you are back. Why would you and the United Way video with the football like everybody else? SPEAKER: You do not want me to throw a ball. (Laughter) TROY KENT: I wanted to see that but I did not see you in the video. Anyway, thank you, I do not have a question for you but I have a question for Clay. So, Mr Irvin, when I prep for our meeting I read through this, I was totally convinced to agree with staff recognition of denial. Now that we have a human aspect to it, thank you for coming and by the way. Even with a human aspect, I am still feeling the recommendation of denial because of the list of issues that you have already mentioned. But you have to help me with something. Why am I counting four or five homes on these lots nearby? Were all of these 1976 or done in 76 or whatever? CLAY ERVIN: Actually have co-enforcement cases where people build homes down there without any permits. TROY KENT: You cannot even make this up, oh my gosh! CLAY ERVIN: We have a gentleman referred to as carpet Michael built a bunch of lien tubes down there for workers. TROY KENT: Did you say carpet Mike? CM? CLAY ERVIN: So, this is an area that is somewhat wide open. TROY KENT: Gotcha. CLAY ERVIN: So, there have been homes constructed without permits, there have been errors, let's say in the 80s, if I remember correctly, because the same discussion came in front of a different Council in 2022. And we had similar answers, that is why we included the last appeal, that way we could show you what happened in that case that was roughly 2 years ago. And so, yes, and again, I want to reemphasize, there is a portion of this area that was replatted, so, they could comply with the rules and regulations, and they had the 5 acre, 10 acre sizes. Unfortunately, we do have some antiquated homes that are out there that were constructed prior to 1976. Some that may have been constructed in error, where we as a county may have issued permits in error. There are some that are out there that are subject to code violations. TROY KENT: I won't even go down the rabbit hole but we do with those. Thank you Mr Irvin. Ma'am, I have to tell you I do not know where I will follow on this one. Unless one of my fellow councilmembers that something really convincing, I just want to tell you, I'm leaning towards denial, for all the reasons that's after is mentioned. But I will wait to hear if one of my councilmembers has something to change my mind. SPEAKER: Am I allowed to defend? JEFFREY S BROWER: I do not have a problem with that in this circumstance, you are fighting for... SPEAKER: I literally am, I did not want to come in here with the whole attitude of poor me, that is not the type of people we are but we are literally at the point where we live in a camper with a 16-year-old and a 12-year-old, husky and a two cats. I am teaching school every day. We are doing the best we possibly can. And that's kind of what I'm going at with, we purchased this property, I did my due diligence. During one of the meetings I had with them, it was rudely stated to me that I should done my due diligence before I bought my property, I did I did all of my due diligence in my experience as well. That was my arguments, I have notes of... TROY KENT: May ask you a question? Just help me with this, if you did your due diligence, how did you miss the piece that you had to have 10 acres to the home? SPEAKER: During the comments, it literally says, if you receive the ODP, the vesting rights will be awarded. That was approved with comments. So, nowhere in the comments didn't say anything about vesting rights is not allowed in this area. We are not allowing building in this area. TROY KENT: Clay, is that accurate about the ODP? CLAY ERVIN: Again, when you look at the comments, you will see that development engineering will identify what they have and approved with conditions. You will see that land development will say an overall development plan is what you need. The critical thing is looking at the land-use zoning aspect, where it says denial because it did not meet. We do not just have one person meeting with folks, we have all of the different entities that are engaged in review of these applications. Our technical review staff, includes upwards of 12 different divisions coming in and speaking to you. So, yes, there will be people sitting here saying, in order to do this, you have to get approval of an overall development plan for vesting. But then you also have to make sure that you are clicking the box for land-use. And you are clicking the box for planning. And zoning. Until, that is where the unfortunate situation has occurred here. We understand the confusion that I can create, but the fact is that the DRC agenda packet, which is included in your agenda file, that is where you can find the different comments. SPEAKER: That was the biggest thing. When I got the original staff comments from the gentlemen we purchase the property from, I literally went through and said "this one says approves with these conditions. These are the assumed conditions." I even got a letter called the nonconforming letter saying this piece of property since 1964 on the original deed has been 1.25 acres. I could not comply with the zoning, knew that. But assumed all I have to do is request a variance for that change. We do not even want to change the zoning. And just requesting to invest the property like our next-door neighbours. We want to build the single-family home. We understand the issues faced with letting. We have already bought stuff for the property, chainsaws. We grow up in this area we know about flooding and hurricanes and how it all works. We are willing to take on that risk. And I did mention that to the staff during one of our meetings. "What do I need to do? Do you need me to sign a document?" Then they have us filling out a letter that says a letter to future landowners. This road is not maintained by the County, it is maintained by owners. We are willing to do whatever they want us to do. We just want the same rights that all of those other people were able to do legally. We have not done anything to the property. I know there was a code enforcement person who went out there the week before. We have not done anything. We are waiting for the permission from you guys so I can follow the rights. Get through and get our permit and build our little house. That is all we are asking for. I think that's it. SPEAKER: Dempsey or Kent? DON DEMPSEY: When did you purchase this property? SPEAKER: … We literally sold our house in Edgewater because of the concerns happening there and we paid cash. DON DEMPSEY: Did you happen to have an attorney review everything before you actually bought it? SPEAKER: We had a title company. DON DEMPSEY: Have you attempted to purchase any of the surrounding properties? SPEAKER: No. DON DEMPSEY: Is it fair to say those properties are deemed... SPEAKER: I assume so. I know we have met a lot of the neighbours down the road and some of them have been trying to purchase to make their property bigger. But I cannot speak to that. I do not know. I know we have a neighbour literally right next to us in 2013 got permission to update his house. DON DEMPSEY: Are any of your surrounding properties for sale? SPEAKER: No. There are no signs or anything out. I know some of the houses out there are for sale, existing homes. DON DEMPSEY: Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: How did you you find the property? SPEAKER: It was listed on Zillow. And we purchased it through our realtor. We actually purchased it the same day we sold our house. JEFFREY S BROWER: Did the realtor say anything about the zoning? SPEAKER: No. I called the county before I purchased the property to see if we had any issues. I literally received an email from them with the application to request ODP. Nothing was ever stated to us that it was not investing. I did all my research, I understand setbacks and all that stuff. So, that was one of the suggestions I have for you guys. If you do deny us, something needs to be done to help other people. I have extensive knowledge from working BPF design, AG Piper construction. I worked for Greg for nine years. I have experience in the stuff. Imagine someone who was not me got into this situation, it is just not fair. There needs to be more public knowledge or education. It is very hard to follow and understand especially when the staff comments kept changing. JEFFREY S BROWER: That is one of the things I wrote down. How to prevent this. Mr. Vice chair Kent said there is a human factor here and it is sitting and standing in front of us. It does make a difference. It makes a difference to the people behind you as well. I do not know if I need to say that. Nobody here is trying to hurt you. You have been in here all day so you heard all the arguments about not changing zoning not changing the comp plan. And I want to be consistent with that. When I look at this, it was not my concern. When I am talking about zoning I am talking about changing it for a large subdivision, for a lot of folks. SPEAKER: We are just one family. JEFFREY S BROWER: When we are done talking I will ask Clay, how would - if this was approved, I'm not asking you yet but you can listen. How would this affect every other lot? I think you said this makes it harder for us to prevent this in the future. SPEAKER: We would not be able to resell for what we paid for. We paid for more than it was already worth because the environmental survey was already done... That is why we paid more for it. JEFFREY S BROWER: What happens if there is a fire and you call 911? SPEAKER: I talked about that with the fire marshal, having certain sprinklers out in the yard. JEFFREY S BROWER: You are willing to take the risk? SPEAKER: We also discussed with him during hurricane we will leave. We understand the things that we need to do if there is a life safety issue. JEFFREY S BROWER: What if there is an injury and you have to call an ambulance? Is an ambulance coming out there? SPEAKER: According to the fire marshal there should be no problem getting the fire truck down there. Spectrum, just put lines down that road. FedEx is going down that road. Our next-door neighbour gets packages. It is not as bad as it used to be many years ago. I do not know if the residents corrected it but we have been out many times after the hurricane and we had no issues. JEFFREY S BROWER: You heard the comment about Daytona Park estate? I have gone through it not just there but other areas where people have done just what you done and have accepted responsibility. But after every rain they are calling and saying, "why won't you come out and grate my road"? I need my road grated because the hospital has to come down. SPEAKER: We are willing to fill out that paper, and have it documented. We understand what is going on. Keep the road good... We have already contributed to that fund. We understand what we are taking on, we're just asking for the right to be able to do it. JEFFREY S BROWER: My first thought when I read this, when it was on the agenda was forgive me, but why didn't she do her due diligence? You have gone through lengthy observation that you did, you felt like you did. And that you were told you could get it changed. Which is risky. I would like to know when we get to the end of this, how we prevent it from happening again. It will be difficult. I kind of look at this and think where was the realtor service in all this? The rest of my questions will be for Clay. Does anybody else? Go ahead David... Clay, do you want her to finish with Matt? I am sorry? Councilman Rinehart? MATT REINHART: How big is the property beside you? SPEAKER: 1.25 acres. MATT REINHART: What size is the home? SPEAKER: It is not back. MATT SPEAKER: The building requirements are 750 square-foot... We are trying to stay seven 52,000. We do not want to be mortgage court. MATT REINHART: ... Were any of these properties flooded? SPEAKER: I've been taking weekly pictures in January since we bought it because I'm a teacher and I have to make everything look pretty. We have not had any issues, even on ranchette. I have heard in the past and I remember when we were kids and we would go four wheeling it was bad out there. They have trenches along side the road and all that kind of stuff. MATT REINHART: He said something about the turn away driveway you are willing to put in. The other question you answered, who maintains the road and you said it is a fun almost like an HOA that you pay into. Does somebody have a tractor? SPEAKER: There are multiple residents, we have residents arguing who gets to use their tractor on our property first. (Multiple speakers) MATT REINHART: Thank you very much I appreciate it. SPEAKER: Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman Santiago? DAVID SANTIAGO: When I look at this Mr. chair, if you did not ask me anything about it - if I did not read anything about it ahead of time, I would say this is an agricultural Ranchette community where there are houses built on. These nonconforming plots are certainly a problem for us in the County. We do need to come up with a plan to solve this for the future. As it pertains to her application, I am only struggling because the process how it is spelled out and staff reviewing it and looking at the criteria and saying the applied the criteria and it does not meet. I am encouraged - I want to find a way for her to build for her family. Let me just say that. I am encouraged that if there is a possibility to make a change that allows, we have criteria and are coded for certain things to be permissible. If we could identify some really narrowed criteria, that allows us to do something in these areas? I would be open to it. Sort of how we have the special exception stuff. I struggle not allowing someone to build on their land. I think Clay wants to add something. CLAY ERVIN: I do want to add something in regards to the record. One of the beauties of our management system is when we have someone who is contacting us about the property, can we take a record of it? That way people cannot shop answers. I have to say I am looking right now on my computer about the Amanda sheet, which lists all the folders for this particular property. Other people have contacted us about this property, about whether it was buildable. Specifically, the previous owner, Mr. Ian Phillips who again was trying to get it vested and did not succeed and sold it to Mrs Scarsella. There is a record that we have been telling other people of the difficulties. Please understand our customer service is such that we will - we cannot reject applications. We try to tell everybody of the difficulties they will face and some of the problems. And again, when you look through on your agenda sheet, we included the staff's comments. I am looking through and there are some approvals with comments but there is still a conditional, quite a few technical requirements that are identified. The one that came through is from Kimberly Redding, our planner three, who is looking at it from a land development and zoning. On page 9 – 25 of your agenda package, recommendation of denial. I feel for her. It is a horrible situation. It was the same situation, two years ago, there was a similar property from a different group of councilmembers facing the same situation. And because of the concerns of taking it down lot by lot by lot throughout there, because once you start allowing for investment to occur in that area, you wind up with the situations that we have in many of these antiquated subdivisions that we have had to come back and dealing with gut wrenching situation. The whole way behind planning is prevention, and that's why you see that your staff is making a statement. DAVID SANTIAGO: What could be some options for these areas for a resolution? Not hers right now, just the areas that we have. What are our options? SPEAKER: Antiquated subdivisions are problem throughout the state of Florida. It started in the 20s with the land boom and continued through. We have thousands upon thousands of lots that cannot be built upon, that were sold years ago and folks are still holding title and they cannot do anything with it. In this particular situation, unless you did a wholesale comprehensive plan amendment to allow lots of 1 acre on all 2000 lots, then that would be changing it from agricultural resource and intensifying the land use to probably something like rule and allowing for 1 acre lots to be built out there. But how would you get the necessary infrastructure? You cannot use dirt road for access to 2000 lots. So would you then put in place a special assessment to have to put in the roads? The storm water that would be necessary? Again, we don't want to prevent her from finding a home in this area. The problem that we are having from your staff is that we hear the concerns we have for folks about flooding, about insufficient roads and all those things, and that's why these rules are in place, to prevent this from occurring. We don't want to pick on her, but at the same point, we have a situation that we must be consistent. It cannot be arbitrary. We have to live by the rules that are given to us so we can prevent the sins from the past from reoccurring in the future. DAVID SANTIAGO: Thank you. JEFFREY BROWER: Counsel Dempsey. DON DEMPSEY: I'm going to vote in favor of this family. Just because this is a unique situation. I understand, Clay and I'm giving you bad precedent to do it for future people, but we have had a spirit of allowing nonconforming lots to be developed in the spirit of affordable housing. We allow all kinds of building in nonconforming lots in the affordable housing arena. So I don't think we are stepping that far out of bounds by allowing these people to build on a nonconforming lot in this unique situation. This is a substantial hardship to this family and I cannot sit by and just watch them walk out of here with such a huge loss to their family. I cannot do it. That's where I am. Thank you. JEFFREY BROWER: Vice Chair Kent. TROY KENT: Son of a... I was ready before Don Dempsey opened his mouth. I was ready to make a motion for staff's recommendation of denial because Clay Ervin is 1 million% is spot on. This flies in the face of everything we talk about that we tried to stop from happening. I really was ready to make that motion. Don's name was there before me. I apologize, Councilman Dempsey's name was there before me. It is that human part of this where I feel... And it is not our job to fix what this realtor did, or whoever sold it to them. But like it or do not like it, due diligence wasn't done completely on your part. It wasn't. If there was not a single family home anywhere near you, I would be totally against it. I almost feel like going with staff's recommendation of denial is helping you with headaches down the road by stopping this nonsense, but... I'm not going to make that motion now after I heard Mr. Dempsey. JEFFREY BROWER: Ok, Clay. Are there any concerns... If this was voted for and approved, do you have concerns of health, safety, welfare of them or surrounding neighbors? SPEAKER: Yes. I can tell you that right now, this counsel has not said it, but 4-6 years ago we had a contingency of folks from Blanchette Road coming in demanding that the road be paved and fixed because there were people who couldn't get out because of flooding that occurred out there. So yes, there is a situation that we could have something happen out there. JEFFREY BROWER: But we have seen it before. SPEAKER: We have heard from residents out there. SPEAKER: Sprinklers on tripods? I would think the speakers in the house. DAVID SANTIAGO: It's part of wildfire. I want to clarify something. When (unknown name) goes through here, you realize that we have to retain a fire rating for insurance. If we start putting more and more homes outside of an area where they can get safe access to proper fire suppression, it has a negative impact on the overall area because our fire rating as a county is impacted by the number of homes that we cannot say are served by city level of fire suppression. But, if the Council feels that it is appropriate to deny or uphold the appeal, we will work with them to try to make it as safe as possible and make sure it is taken care of, and again, we will put in provisions that carry with every deed regarding the County does not have any obligations or any requirements to provide access or any other thing moving in an area outside of our control. JEFFREY BROWER: For me, that is the hangup here. You really cannot do whatever you could do to make sure you protect the health, safety and welfare of the people. However,, and I have a question before this, but we may be able to require them or get them to agree to sign something that says... I have seen it 100 times. People will build where we warrant there is no maintenance. You cannot get an ambulance there. I understand that, and then we are overwhelmed with calls. Why isn't Ben Bartlett doing his job. My road is not graded. It's not fair. I don't know if there is a way to get around that. My question before you get there is what kind of a problem do you we create? I hear what you say. You are telling us to stop the flooding, be consistent with changes, and you are looking at all of us and saying would you guys please be consistent? It is because there is a family sitting there. And you know that. You have to deal with it as well. It's not a development. It is one home. I'm... What kind of an issue does this give us in the future if this was approved? SPEAKER: I will have to defer to the attorney as to what kind of precedent it sets. JEFFREY BROWER: Uncharted territory? SPEAKER: Yes. Unlike variances, which kind of, you know, there is a provision where each variance is unique and stands on its own with its own facts and circumstances. Here, there is not a lot to differentiate one lot from the other. You have a lot of .25 acre parcels within the same subdivision. They all don't need the plan, the zoning, the lot size and the infrastructure requirements. We always warn not to be arbitrary and capricious when making these decisions. JEFFREY BROWER: But it doesn't automatically grandfather everyone else in? It would be a case-by-case basis? SPEAKER: To the point that they can point to this case and ask what is the difference between their lot and you are approving one and denying the other. JEFFREY BROWER: What you already alluded to because they have a next door neighbor. SPEAKER: Some of them are within that reported vested vision of this area. Some are there without permits and are facing code enforcement. Here, the concern is someone comes in and tries to do the same thing. Staff may be beholden to approve it, and that may happen to all 2000 lots in this area without the appropriate infrastructure, without appropriate safeguards. JEFFREY BROWER: Is there wife they agree to a deed restriction or whatever that says we don't require any services. We will take the risk of not giving ambulance, not giving fire department, not having Road? DAVID SANTIAGO: It is not about provision of services. We do that to a lot of properties. It is approving houses and developments on all 2000 of these 1.25 acre parcels. Nothing differentiates one from the other if they share the same characteristics. JEFFREY BROWER: You are not helping me. Yes, Councilman Santiago. DAVID SANTIAGO: Along the lines of chairman per hour, is this something that can be negotiated, or does that require a different process? SPEAKER: I believe that would require a different process. DAVID SANTIAGO: Like a variance application process, or is this different? SPEAKER: I would recommend that if you direct staff, we can put something in the comprehensive plan to address this type of scenario. DAVID SANTIAGO: Like I asked earlier? SPEAKER: It would create a whole new policy for this type of situation, of lots that do not meet the current land use or zoning, that have no infrastructure. At the same time, counsel may deem it inappropriate to do a large change to the land zoning. DAVID SANTIAGO: I understand. The Council decided to go down that path of creating a policy within the plan, it could be criteria that we come up with. For example, I am no expert at this. It has to have road for emergency vehicles, gravel in the one driveway, maybe has to be a sprinklered residential property because of... I am just throwing out ideas. Could we go that granular in a criteria that we created in the future if we so decided? SPEAKER: Yes. Some of it may implicate fire code provisions, which are in the realm of your fire marshal, but yes, you can get that granular in terms of if you are creating a whole new policy within your plan, you can be as detailed as you want or refer to the land code. DAVID SANTIAGO: We can outline anything within reason and then that would be the law of the land in the process to follow. SPEAKER: Yes. DAVID SANTIAGO: I will just say this, I want to help these people. I think I can land where I think my two colleagues are here, and however, I think we need to fix this problem for the future. Because there's others that may want to do it. There are others who live out of state that bought this property 20 years ago or 10 years ago as their retirement property but haven't come in. I would favor a long-term approach to finding solutions to plug the holes in the problems that we are concerned with with the process. But I could land ok today. I love Steph, I support staph almost every single time. There is that human element. But if we do approve this, we ought to give an indication on how to come up with a real checklist solution for these folks. We had some talk today about 1 acre properties. Maybe we ought to have 1 acre properties. We have them here. Be it will just be an area that doesn't have any services as... Or limited services. The only other solution in the future I could see if we do nothing, someone buys a bunch of them, acquires 15, 20 of these parcels and then in 10 or 15 years comes in for a subdivision and puts in 50 wide lots. They have the potential in the future, right? Put a package plan in there and now you have a subdivision. That could happen in the future. one JEFFREY S BROWER: You don't have to come up, you have children? How many? You were a police officer? Retired? Still serving? SPEAKER: I was unfortunately pulled away by money... (Indiscernible) JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you and thank you for your service as a police officer. I'm exactly where Don was and I know our staff feels like a ping-pong ball right now because of the way this whole day has gone. My thought right now is to approve it. My haunting thought is that I don't know if we are doing you a favour. I don't know if you will be able to live out there. You said that you are willing to be responsible for the road, for emergencies, and I'm just going to tell you, since I have been here, we've done this before, and we tried to help people, and a year later, they are begging for help because it is so bad with no road and no accents. That's what these people here are trying to prevent happening to you. They are not bad people. You are absolutely right, Santiago, if we approved this, we need to fix it. We need to have some means of not having to allow this to happen, your responsibility for due diligence, but I'm going to quit rambling. I think we all want to help you. I just hope that in the helping we are not hurting and setting up in an unintended consequence for the future. Councilman Dempsey. DON DEMPSEY: Thank you for what you said. I would necessarily be voting in favour of this, but just looking into the aerial that is up on the screen, and just studying it. It seems like the property to the adjoining East is nonconforming the property to the north appears to be nonconforming, the property to the north of that seems to be nonconforming. It looks like most of these are built on 7 1/2 acres or less lots. It's everywhere. There houses out there everywhere. Those people were living in the same danger, I guess, is not having the fire services were even act services or law enforcement out there because of road conditions. They are all still living out there for like I said, Clay, I hate to do this to you but is up at you in a bad spot. I really apologize. Like I said, the human factor of this, I hope we can do something to address the next person. We got to do something, this is a problem and we need to fix it. I need to see these people walk out of here with such a huge financial impact on their family if they don't get it. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Vice chair Troy Kent? TROY KENT: It's rare for me to leave an item and not feel good about how I'm going to vote. I don't get about this either way. Honestly, I think chairman, you brought up some good points. We don't know, I think what you said was... I don't know that I'm doing you any favours for you because this could be problematic and here staff talk about there are 2000 of these out there, Clay is right, everything he said is right. I can't go against anything that he said. I don't know that I agree with you chairman that we are doing them any favours by approving this. But it is that darn human element and it's all of the nonconforming's all around it and I don't feel good either way about this. It's the first one that I think ever in my public service career ever that I can recall where I'm going to make a vote here, I'm not going to feel good either way I go. JEFFREY S BROWER: Yeah. We need a motion if we make that vote, vice chair Kent. We are putting in their hands and it's their responsibility. They thrive or suffer the consequences and I hope they thrive. Representative Councilman Santiago, he got us started on representative. DAVID SANTIAGO: It's like the commercial, "get Mikey to try it." I want you to know I have the highest back for the team, it's a problem, and we have to balance a lot of separate issues appear, and it is not easy and I agree with what you said. I don't feel good either way voting on this that I will make a motion to approve the appeal. JEFFREY S BROWER: We are actually denying the development review committee. DAVID SANTIAGO: Approving the appeal for the applicant, correct. JEFFREY S BROWER: That one is fine. We are approving the appeal, is the motion. OK. Wait, we haven't voted yet, that was just a motion. Don't jinx it (Laughter) would you please call the role. (Roll Call) JEFFREY S BROWER: It's been a long day for you both. SPEAKER: (Indiscernible) JEFFREY S BROWER: Better teaching first aid. DAVID SANTIAGO: ... To give staff direction for the future. JEFFREY S BROWER: This has been a hard day. Here is an easy one, item 10. Clay Irving, special exception for 100 and a foot tall medications tower. CLAY ERVIN: This is a special exception, this is a replacement tower, it is a private tower only for the use by... Staff recommended approval PLDRC recommends approval. JEFFREY S BROWER: Motion to approve by vice chair Kent. Any questions for staff? Comments? All in favor say aye? Any opposed? Powers approve unanimously 5 to 0. Item 11. Another woman who has sat in here all day for this result in of 10.51 acre parcel rather than reading it all, just take it away. CLAY ERVIN: The applicant is looking to... Continuance of single-family home staff or amended approval for rezoning to allow that to occur which of the PLDRC and was... Comment the concern regarding potential development of the property that was addressed, is coming to you with the recordation of approval for the PLDRC. JEFFREY S BROWER: Them motion is made to approve, seconded by Troy Kent? Questions for staff? Questions for Mrs. Ash? All in favor say aye? Any opposed? How long it passes, how long is this process, Fiona? Six years? It's done. It was approved 5 to 0. Are we getting to the easy part now? Item 12, no, we are not, rezoning of 11.42 acres located at 149 W. New York Avenue in DeLand. CLAY ERVIN: In the 1980s there was a special exception for this the property owners taking it a little beyond that and is doing other things out there. Staff reviewed it and looked at what options were available rezoning to POD would allow for the previous special exception as well as new uses that were established. This is an existing business that is operating, these would address issues brought forward and staff are commended approval of the POD to the PLDRC planning land of element commission is coming with a recommendation approval as well. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you, is there a motion? Vice chair Kent makes motion to move? There being no second? Second by Councilman Santiago. Questions for staff? Comment? All in favor say aye? Any opposed? And that is approved. 13 is removed and will be back in two weeks? We've lost the staff. (Laughter) Item 14, the day is not over yet. ***Audio Lost*** JEFFREY S BROWER: That got his attention. SPEAKER: Good afternoon. This item is approval for two agreements, with Avalon and the city of Daytona Beach on the long-range transportation improvement and cost allocation agreement and doing Avalon and ourselves on the right way agreement. Overall. Avalon is developing this property, they are in the city of Daytona Beach. The development is said to be in four phases, phase 2 a am a face to be and phase 3 as a part of each phase they will go ahead and build a portion of the of a structure as to noted on the exhibit overall. They have a couple of other items that are outside the actual phasing of the section of hand Avenue East of the Creek and the portion of to mocha Farms Road if it is ever extended to the north. Those are not tied to physical phases as I said, those will be done based on other timing criteria overall but will be based on conditions the city, the county has to meet on hand Avenue, those conditions would be the funding necessary for the two bridges, one over the to Tomoka River and the other over I-95. And you will be based on the approval of the extension of Tomoka Farms going north. If you've got a question of the particular graphic overall we can go into that. We try to accomplish first and foremost with this was to mitigate the traffic created by this development and wanted to put in as much as possible, as many alternate means of methods for getting north-south or East-West. One of the first things that we saw was the connection or the extension of Timbercreek North ultimately to some type of connection to stairway 40 which we accomplished in the first phase between the extension of Timbercreek, and then Avalon Park Drive Boulevard. All the way north. Then we incrementally build these sections of hand Avenue and Timbercreek to make alternate routes, again, to move traffic and give drivers as many reps as possible. With the property to the surrounding area. Any questions? TROY KENT: I appreciate the information you shared. I have met with the developer, thank you. And, for me on this, the big issue, of course, is the traffic and trying... A guy from Ormond trying to keep the traffic of office State Road 40. I totally get the north-south, and now this East/West. I am a big advocate, actually, forehand Avenue, that extension. But I feel like staff worked really hard on this to make sure that this was the absolute best outcome that we could get for our residents. This is a phased approach. So how many years are we talking about here? This isn't going to be done overnight. SPEAKER: It's basically a five year time frame with it. At the end, the one section that is outside of the timing in regard to hand Avenue is that section east of timber Creek. That is not tied to a set timeframe, other than try to when we get the funding associated with the bridges. That could be five years, 10 years, something along those lines. The rest of it has basically a five-year window for each phase. TROY KENT: This is in my district and hugely important for people that live in this area to have that ultimate East/West opportunity instead of being on LPGA. The quicker we can get support from the state and even the feds to get help with those bridges that we are going to need, the better. I would like for us to start doing what we can to help lock up that support on what we own. From what I have heard, Avalon will do everything they can to make sure that their pieces are in place when we are ready to continue with Hand Avenue. Thank you. SPEAKER: One item of note, understanding the traffic situation out here, it is the only East/West corridor of note and outside of Hand Avenue is the only possible East/West corridor, so filling in that, putting in Hand Avenue is a big part of what we are trying to accomplish. DAVID SANTIAGO: Just to follow up in Troy's line of comments and questions, this is a byproduct of, I'm guessing, several meetings, is that correct? SPEAKER: Yes. We have been talking about the overall plan on this project for about two years. DAVID SANTIAGO: What is the investment here? SPEAKER: It is about $90 million at this point in time. DAVID SANTIAGO: Ok, in infrastructure and roads? SPEAKER: Yes, sir. DAVID SANTIAGO: We are not here to discuss or approve the development, we are here to adopt the work that you and your team has done regarding road infrastructure and the amount they are committing to. Is that correct? SPEAKER: Correct. Within the city of Daytona, it is their responsibility to determine what gets built and the number of units, square footage, those types of items which they will take up. We are just approving the means for upsetting -- offsetting on mitigating the traffic. DAVID SANTIAGO: Making sure we get the most we can, but the project is not our approval? SPEAKER: Correct. JEFFREY BROWER: Thank you. On the red line timber Creek Road, the redline coming from the hand Avenue extension... Which one? SPEAKER: Let me change it. Right through there. JEFFREY BROWER: Who is paying for that? SPEAKER: They would pay for that. There is a small stretch. It is tough to tell from the graphic because it is so far out. The ultimate extension of timber Creek would go all the rate up to State Road 40. There is a small portion to the north which has existing businesses, has a portion of the road already constructed, and we would be responsible for acquiring right-of-way through that portion, because they do not own any property to the north. South, there is the corridor that the prior property owner had secured so that timber Creek can be widened south of there. They will, ultimately construct all the way up to (indiscernible). JEFFREY BROWER: That didn't come out on your screen. SPEAKER: Section right here. JEFFREY BROWER: So they are paying for that road? SPEAKER: Correct. JEFFREY BROWER: Are we talking about the same road? How come this doesn't show up on your screen? What about the blue tournament Drive hand Avenue extension? It sounds like that is going into our five-year plan for roadbuilding? SPEAKER: Correct. JEFFREY BROWER: So... SPEAKER: Hand Avenue east of timber Creek Road? JEFFREY BROWER: This – line. SPEAKER: Yes. JEFFREY BROWER: So the tax players -- taxpayers are paying for that? SPEAKER: They do. They requested it as part of the agreement that we make sure if it is not already in there it is added to the long-range transportation plan. That is just to be able to make sure that they check all the boxes for impact fee credits for constructing roads. That is not transferring the requirement to us, they are responsible for providing right-of-way, performing the design and then constructing have -- hand Avenue from timber Creek. Our one obligation is the funding of the bridges. JEFFREY BROWER: Two bridges? SPEAKER: Correct. JEFFERY BROWER: That means doing three major wet lands? SPEAKER: There is a small pond section. I could not tell you if there is active wetlands, but there is space already allocated for that future extension. JEFFREY BROWER: So we need to bridges but we are not sure if it is wetland? SPEAKER: Correct. There are sections west of there. When we cross the Tomoka River, there will be other sessions -- sections. JEFFREY BROWER: And the Tomoka Farms Road, yellow dotted line, when would that be built? SPEAKER: That has not been determined. The first thing to do is study something that has been proposed by the county staff as part of the next five-year road program priority list that will be coming back in January. And we would study where the road needs to go first, and then that will come back to the Council to confirm and accept, and after that, we would move the design and construction and from those portions of it. We haven't taken that first step. JEFFREY BROWER: Who funds that? SPEAKER: That is for us to find unless any developments were to come through and from that section. We anticipate that happening. We have previously been approached by a developer at one point looking at developing north of where the humane society is currently located. That area, and in that case, if they were to move forward or if somebody else were to come forward looking at developing in that area, we would have them go ahead. That's why getting an alignment study done is a recommendation so we know where the road should go when a developer comes in and says they are ready to go. You have to build the section of road to get there. JEFFERY BROWER: You do not know if all of that area, the Tomoka Farms extension is wetlands or not? Or how wet it is? You don't know about Hand Avenue? SPEAKER: Correct. The line shown is just an indicator of where the road generally it might be located. It is not an indicator of where we think the road is going to go. That will be done as part of the study, and it will go out, identify the wetlands, survey those and then do our absolute best to avoid impacting those as we can. JEFFERY BROWER: Once the roads are built, do you anticipate that area being developed as well? SPEAKER: That very well might be possible, yes, sir. JEFFERY BROWER: Ok. Councilman Santiago. DAVID SANTIAGO: Moved to accept the agreement. SPEAKER: Second. JEFFERY BROWER: Councilman Santiago makes a motion to approve, seconded by Councilman Reinhardt. We have three members of the public that would like to speak to this. Connie Colby? And then Joy Brinley. SPEAKER: Connie Colby, Ormond Beach. As far as Ormond Beach goes, it does not mention this at all, but Avalon Park is a definite problem for Ormond Beach. Hand Avenue is already used as the alternate for Granada in Ormond Beach. It is heavily trafficked and getting why it's now just for the residents of us. We do not need to have anybody from Ormond Beach with a Hand Avenue extension. We have no reason to go out that way ever for Avalon Park. I had a map. Here it is. The map that I am showing right now shows where Hand Avenue ends in Ormond Beach on the right-hand side, and it shows the Tomoka revert where you have to go to get to Avalon. To do this, you have to go over I-95. You have to go through... Over the Tomoka River as well. I read everything that was in paperwork that you had in the agenda that said that County will be responsible for constructing it at its own expense, both bridges and their approaches. In 2019, the price of that was $31 million, now, five years later, for those two bridges, it will be at least double that much. This, supposedly was going to be a 1000 foot bridge over the Tomoka River, and that is wetlands up there. Along the river. On the second slide that is there, it shows Hand Avenue. This one shows Hand Avenue going through parts of Ormond Beach. It goes through a lot of residential areas. And as you see, every one of those roads, Williamson, Clyde, Morris, nova and US one go over to Granada. So any traffic that comes into Ormond Beach from that area to go to the beach area has to go to somehow get on to Granada to go onto the bridge. At the very end, Hand Avenue does not go through to the river, it ends up in a (indiscernible) place. JEFFREY BROWER: Thank you. Joy Brinley? I believe -- I don't believe she is here any longer. Jeff (unknown name)? Let one person go before you from the public, John (Name) and then we've heard from all the public. SPEAKER: I expected a lot of opposition to this and I don't see why. Alright? I've been there for 40 years in Daytona Beach... Maybe 25 years ago, talked about exactly what this gentleman is putting in, the idea of hubs and outside to prevent people from having to go all the way back into downtown and load up the traffic of the roadways. He is doing that. Again, I actually like the idea that he is getting all that land to the west free of charge. What we had just been talking about for two hours this morning he is giving to us. Which is an advantage. It also protects the park where the forest that we own just west of that. It is a great buffer zone, you gotta believe that. He also mentioned $90 million a while ago, we were $100 million behind in infrastructure. If we didn't have this, we will be $200 million behind and if a structure. It is a win-win on almost all of it. I understand her not wanting to have hand Avenue, but again, been there and done that in Miami. They have a Granada on cattle drive... It'll take you in our to get onto the bridge. It is horrible. Then you have to go another couple of miles before we get to another expressway to the top. If we leave LGPA and Granada, we are setting us up for failure. The idea that nobody in Ormond Beach will use hand Avenue is a joke. Remember when the county this year, and he made a comment about it? How to get to the chamber I go down LGPA, that's in Daytona Beach. Just like you did that, there will be people in Ormond using this, there will be people going there for the shopping and there will be people in Ormond that will bite in this area. I'm asking you, as a county, if we are looking after all of the county, these roads will help everybody in the area. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you, John. That is all we have for public comment. Jeff? Would you like to speak at all? You are the applicant. SPEAKER: I am the applicant, my name is Jeffrey (Name) my addresses (address). I'm one of the managing partners of Daytona. We thank you for the opportunity to present this transportation plan as the County engineer mentioned we are working on this plan, pretty steadily for about two years. We have had a traffic very extensive traffic model, the DOT model analyse all of this traffic over the period of two years and gone back and forth with the County's traffic engineering with the city of Daytona Beach as traffic engineer and our traffic into near. I think we reach a consensus that will actually mitigate all of our traffic impacts while trying to improve the throughput of traffic and this part of the world. I think one of our major accomplishments is in phase 1, we can actually connect state road 40 to LPGA with a direct route that will relieve the necessity of going over to I-95, and using both the state road 40 interchange with 95, and the LG PA interchange. We believe hand Avenue which is gonna run all the way from shadow crossing all the way to Williamson is a full two lane bypass for traffic on Granada. We also, I like to mention about the bridge over the Tomoka River. Bear in mind that the ridge over I-95 is not an interchange, is just a bridge over. It's not nearly as expressive as trying to improve either LGPA interchange or state road 40 interchange. With the previous designs for the bridge over to the Tomoka River, involves a shortening the bridge which caused a lot of impact to the wetlands around the river. We are proposing a bridge that spans all the way across the river, the wetlands, and the buffer area. That way the only impact for construction will be the driving on the piles that is a temporary construction impact the wetlands will reproduce themselves underneath the bridge and the bridge will span all of the environmental areas. That is one of the major concessions that we made early in the process. As account engineer mentioned, we are going to build the roads in tandem with achieving and developing entitlement so that when the development is there, the roads will be there supported. The only thing and we cannot go on to a future phase until we begin the roads in that phase. We've tried to do this in a way that we can be responsible for our own destiny, but you know, no one else will have to worry about construction of these roads. We are going to do all of it ourselves. We are happy to help with Tomoko Farms Road, we got of them right away. We also offered to put a conservation easement on a large part of our River track... Easement over the Tomoka River, the wetlands on the smoker River on our property, and the buffer area. ***Audio Lost*** Will end with an agreement on the County... Which will allow our federal wetlands to add to the Tiger Bay preserve. And we are going to construct instead Avalon Park which I mentioned earlier which will connect to LG PA and give people on West I-95 access without impacting on I-95. There are many other aspects of the project that I could talk about, the green route actually gives us a way to get down to the elementary school. The tournament drive coming from LG PA, we think it's important and from people to go from the state road to the area down to that school, it seems like it is quite a beneficial improvement. The dispersion of the traffic with the model is I think all the traffic engineers decided was quite adequate to manage our impacts and we just appreciate the opportunity to work with the staff. I think we have reached a very fair agreement, and I would certainly appreciate your support and am happy to answer any questions. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. Any questions? OK. Who is, vice chair Kent, I will let you go ahead? TROY KENT: I have just a couple of comments. Think you for sharing how the bridge will pylon so will be less of an impact to the Wetlands. And how the wetlands will recover from that. To Ms. Colby, Inc. you for coming out sharing your concerns and bringing your maps. I just have to tell you, if we don't have a seat at the table and have some input on this, my fear was everything dumps out on Granada. And there is no hand Avenue. There is no option for that. Right now we have LGPA they gets choked out a couple of times a day. And we have Granada. If we don't talk about the importance of another East West route like hand Avenue, I think it's going to be more of a negative impact for the residents of Ormond Beach. Happy to chat with you about it, yeah. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. You can probably answer this, Councilman Santiago has Aarti said this is not about the development because that is not the question, it's the roads. It's hard to ignore it when we are looking at it. Will we have any input on the development or is it all Daytona Beach? SPEAKER: The development of this point is all Daytona Beach, really the input we have is how we mitigate the traffic associated with it. That's what we are trying to do JEFFREY S BROWER: OK. Has not occurred yet? Has it gone to Daytona Beach and been approved? SPEAKER: This goes to the city commission tomorrow night, the applicant that is, is also presuming a rezoning through the city but the timetable is on that. JEFFREY S BROWER: Have these phases of development been already approved by the city of Daytona Beach? SPEAKER: I will let you answer that. SPEAKER: I apologize. Let me just say categorically, we do not need a comprehensive plan amendment to pursue this project between existing PD's, some of which we inherited, in future it land use entitlements. We have all of the entitlements we need so we do not need a comprehensive plan amendment. We are working in our existing zoning and comprehensive plan, is actually outlined in this transportation agreement. Every entitlement that we have. But I think one of the key points is that in our existing entitlements, we have about we had 1/2 million square feet of commercial. Nobody wants that. That's three enclosed malls. What will and our existing entitlement a little over 6000 residential units. Again, we don't need a plan amendment to achieve those entitlements. What we've asked to do in the city of Daytona Beach and what we based our model on is 1,000,000 ft.² of use and 7878 residential units. Taking the commercial entitlements and transferring those original units, basically using the scarcest resource which is water. We took the water and title from the plan for the commercial, we translated it into residential units. It actually resulted in a huge diminished of two and half million square feet. And only increased the residential I about 2000 units. Less than 2000 units. Is that an answer to your question? JEFFREY S BROWER: Yes. Thank you. Again, I know we are not here to discuss it development, we are only here, thank you for doing that, obviously it is a concern of mine, we are here to discuss the roads. But I can't not think about the development. I wonder where the drinking water is going to come from, I know the sewage is gonna go to Ormond Beach, all of the things are a problem. Just look at the roads, I look at the hand Avenue extension and with everything we talked about today in flooding, I ask, could this area be developed? Nobody knows yet, but this any road opens up, that is the reason you build roads, it opens up to development east of you between you and 95. This is one of the areas that I believe, we just should have never developed west of 95 are here. It's all very wet. You got it approved by Daytona, so our question is the roads here. Councilman Santiago said so many put a position out that we can act and my position has been that if we approve a development, which we are not doing, the developer builds all of the roads. I don't want the taxpayers of Volusia County to be responsible for the bridges and the hand Avenue Extension. Knowing that land, I think that road through that area is a horrible idea. It's wet, I think somebody, a woman this morning read some verses about being good stewards of the environment. The flooding, the congestion from what's going to result from these roads, I'm just, I'm probably the only one, but I am a no on this one on the hand Avenue Extension. In the people of Volusia County are paying for any of the roads for the development. SPEAKER: We own most of the property. We will put a conservation easement of about 150 acres surrounding the extension into Tomoka Farms Road. We also have 30% drawings on hand Avenue extension, 171 page report which takes into account the wetlands and every element that you are addressing in part of our agreement is to give those plans to the county once Hand Avenue is in a five-year plan. We have the information. I did that in advance because I needed to know what was going to be... What it would take. Very interestingly, about two years ago, there was a study that landed on the same alignment that we have landed on, and it is the minimally impactful environmental road for based on the study which was validated by the DOT. JEFFREY BROWER: Alright. Thank you. I guess we will see how that works out. I have one of my biggest concerns, and again, we are not focusing on the development, but one of my biggest concerns, especially in this area, but all of Volusia County, really all of Florida, from hydrologists from the state of Florida says that we are pumping out water from our aquifer so fast that it is not being replenished and now we have saltwater intrusion. We heard that this morning. We have saltwater intrusion at Ormond Beach already. The amount of houses that this will be, I think we are going to have a lot more. Councilman Santiago. DAVID SANTIAGO: Thank you for answering some of the questions. I know we are not here to address the development itself, but thank you for answering the questions. I like that you said you did your studies, you hire the professionals with the degrees and the background to assess these things properly. You didn't just go out and survey someone outside of Publix. So thank you for the due diligence. That is how we should hold everybody accountable for professional standards. As far as my opinion of Hand road, that bridge extension from talking to everyone I have talked to, is that will serve the greater good for everybody in that area. So it is not just a development thing, it is going to have a greater purpose than also serving the community. Thank you also for setting aside so much land in preservation. It is a good development, I get that, but you are also donating land for preservation forever and we do not have to pay a dime for it. That's the best thing. Thank you, Mr Chair. I think there is a motion in place. JEFFREY BROWER: Any other comment? Would you call the role? (Roll Call) JEFFREY BROWER: The motion is approved 4-1. Thank you for coming in. Item 15, appointment to the opioid abatement funding advisory board. SPEAKER: This board has adopted some changes to the bylaws recently that would allow you to appoint an alternate member if you so choose to do so. In addition, it also edited the terms. Therefore you would either need to reappoint Mr. Robbins to the board or you guys can choose a new councilmember or anybody could also serve. JEFFREY BROWER: Who nominates? SPEAKER: Anyone of you. JEFFREY BROWER: Which one was it that you talk to me about yesterday for David Santiago? SPEAKER: That is the district 8 Board of Directors. JEFFREY BROWER: It's not on the agenda? So I will bring that up in closing argument. SPEAKER: That is solely your appointment. JEFFREY BROWER: Ok. Is there a nomination? What's the Council's pleasure? SPEAKER: (Laughs) Not it. JEFFREY BROWER: The Council has no pleasure. Who is the alternate? Jake? (Laughter) JEFFREY BROWER: Is Danny on this board? SPEAKER: Correct. JEFFREY BROWER: Does he need to be reappointed? SPEAKER: Yes. If you choose to do so. JEFFREY BROWER: Now? And is Jake the alternate? SPEAKER: If you choose to do so. JEFFREY BROWER: I nominate two people? Since they are not here today. (Laughs) No, because they are on the board and serving, I think it makes sense. GEORGE RECKTENWALD: Robbins is on the board. There is no alternate at this time. The alternate could be Mr. Robbins or anyone of you. Mr. Johansen, anyone of you or it could be a staff member. Every member does a staff member volunteer? GEORGE RECKTENWALD: No staff are volunteering at this time. JEFFREY BROWER: I would dominate Jake Johansson. Not because he's not here. Well maybe because he is not here. (Laughs) But that has got to have a second, or you make another nomination. Ok. SPEAKER: Seconded. JEFFREY BROWER: You are seconding Troy Kent? When you heard your name you seconded Jake Johansson. Brower nominates Jake, Vice Chair Troy Kent makes the second. SPEAKER: For clarification, that is Jake Johansson as the alternate? JEFFREY BROWER: Yes. All in favor? Any opposed? I will say aye for Jake. He is appointed 5-0. SPEAKER: Does that include reappointing Mr. Robbins as the primary member with Mr. Johansen as the alternate? I thought you were doing them both together. JEFFREY BROWER: That's what you seconded? TROY KENT: I seconded that. DAVID SANTIAGO: When do they meet? SPEAKER: I believe there is one on Friday. As needed, but a required two meetings per year to meet our obligations. So this board makes recommendations on our opioid abatement strategy, and then it is the formal selection committee and makes recommendations, so they hear all the presentations from those entities that make application for use of the regional opioid funds. SPEAKER: Are the meetings that night? SPEAKER: They are in the day. Usually at the airport because we have a lot of municipal recommendations. JEFFREY BROWER: You were thinking about volunteering, weren't you? Distant Sunday time. Which really takes out you and Mr. Kent. While we have two. Item 16, sun rail customer advisory committee appointment. SPEAKER: We have one applicant but Volusia County does have two representatives. Any applicant must ride sun rail three days per week. Mr. Paul (unknown name) does and he also completed an affidavit of participation indicating so. DAVID SANTIAGO: Moved to approve. TROY KENT: Second, before he quits writing some rail. JEFFREY BROWER: Motion to approve Paul Satchfield, by David Santiago, second by Troy Kent. Motion carries 5-0. District 1 appointment to the Halifax area advertising authority. SPEAKER: Moved to approve (unknown name). SPEAKER: I will second that. JEFFREY BROWER: Don nominates Albert. Who made the second? Vice Chair Ken? SPEAKER: Who did you appoint, Mr. Dempsey? I thought he said Aaron (unknown name). JEFFREY BROWER: Second by Vice Chair Kent. All in favor say aye. His appointment is also unanimous. Next item is district for appointment to the code enforcement board. SPEAKER: I make a motion to appoint Richard Furman Junior to that board. SPEAKER: Second. JEFFREY BROWER: Ok. Vice Chair Kent nominates Richard a Furman and Councilman Santiago makes a second. Any questions? All in favor? Appointment is made 5-0. Item 19. Two district 4 appointments to NRA C. SPEAKER: I will do those together. I will appoint Bill lights, director of environmental services, and Michelle Widdick, civil engineer as my two appointments. JEFFREY BROWER: Troy Kent nominates Bill Lights and Michelle Widdick. I cannot change my mind, can I? TROY KENT: I don't know. JEFFREY BROWER: Have you met Jason Evans? Environmental professor very involved in those issues, but... I don't know either one of the other ones and I have nothing against them. TROY KENT: Bill Lights I do not know. I saw him as the incumbent, and Michelle, I have known her for years. Jason sounds wonderful. I am just wondering about between him and Bill Lights because I do not know Bill. He is the incumbent and I appreciate that the incumbent wants to continue to serve. SPEAKER: (Away from microphone) JEFFREY BROWER: I don't know him. TROY KENT: I appreciate you both sharing the information. The only one I know is Michelle, but... SPEAKER: Mr. Lights has offered in person to explain things to me when I first came in counsel. Very knowledgeable of his responsibilities. SPEAKER: I think of Michelle whenever I am thinking NRAC, she way spends my ear in a good way. I didn't know the other two, but I appreciate you sharing that about Mr. Evans. Where is he a professor? JEFFREY BROWER: Stetson. TROY KENT: Locally. I love that also. JEFFREY BROWER: Stick with your gut. We have built Lights, Michelle... All in favor? Any opposed? They are nominated 5-0. Are we getting close? That was it. Do we have any final public participation? We do, but I don't see them here, I will call their names, and if they are here, Sherry Herring? Is this (Name)? No one here by that name? Deltona? And then we have John Nicholson, he's gone to, we have no public comments. You changed seats. SPEAKER: I'm the only one here. John Nicholson, Daytona Beach side, I know it's gonna come before you, I don't know when, but I get the feeling that you all supported. But I still think they need to know when there is a possibility of knowing one way or the other. Second, with regard to the boys club earlier, there is a question raised that now I have a question. If you allocate to say we have $1000 to the boys club, or Easter Seals, then the boys club alligator 25,000 in their budget, and for other enterprises allocate 25,000, they are technically getting twice which you are thinking they are getting. Isn't there some way that we could find out the total? If you're thinking, that's a lot of money, 100,000, 200,000 is more than a lot of money, you really have to know the totality of your gift to whomever and if they are getting gifts from you, in other areas, that should also be known, if you want to see what I'm talking about. That money from the boys club is actually your money, you are giving it to the boys club and they are giving it to them, you all should know that your money is coming from other sources as well. With regard to property rights and whatnot, 30 ago or so... The speedway went to the city and they asked to rezone the property they own. It was industrial property and they wanted to go down to farms. They would farm some hay. The city kind of said yeah, not a problem. Not realizing that the taxes went down substantially, that's what happened with all vacant land, farmland, form developed land, they get a tax break. If you are in interpreter, developer or speculator, you end up buying land and you are paying pennies with a dollar while you sit on the land. ***Audio Lost*** Use this gift in taxes set for 25 years, and you can't develop it for 25. Then for 50 years and for 100 years. Rather than everybody gets a for a short period. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. Mr. County attorney? SPEAKER: I have nothing, thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: And Mr. County manager? SPEAKER: A couple things today, I want to thank everybody... Of course, we dodged probably a missile, not really a bullet. Hurricane Helene went by us. But everyone did a nice job here with activation. I also wanted to point out that we are still involved as we sent a joint emergency response team to Taylor County and personnel from Volusia County fire rescue, but she County Sheriff's office, collaborating as they do, and these emergencies, they are doing search and rescue vital water rescue repairs. This is a seven day deployment, some of you have eight Volusia County fire rescue employees employed and 20 deputies. Three hi water vehicles, one higher each, six boats, a mobile kitchen, mobile bathrooms, and generators and dump trailers. We are up there with the team and also buckles for emergency management was also deployed to the county to be part of the state. And the incident management team over there, we have another battalion chief on standby to be put on the same state incident management from EMS. Again, I want to thank everybody and we will keep you informed. Will expect there will be more... And we got some pictures there. I also got a couple other announcements for things. This Sunday, we are very happy to have our celebrate Volusia at the... October 6 we should be at the Volusia Center from 2 PM to 5:30 PM. I think it's gonna be a great event for everybody to discover Volusia County in a way they haven't before. And in no cost free concert starring Pablo Cruise. We got a community expo, we got a kids zone, trucks and equipment that they can touch, and art exhibit, Echo gallery. You got a lot of organizations across the county, fire rescue, the environmental center and many more. Working have problem at your parking, hotdogs, popcorn and cookies. We'll have other organizations and businesses that will be partnering and there will be giveaways, including hotel stays and restaurants. We hope you will be there to celebrate Volusia this Sunday. A positive event. Real quick, today, of course it's the first day of our first beach parking. That was a shed out to Michael Ryan's team really pushing it out there to get the information. As of today, I know we got just under 5500 applications for registration, as a resident here. Of course, we will make sure people can get out there on the website www.volusiapark.org, where they can do it through the Volusia mobile app. And we have a first brick-and-mortar office open today at 2422 S. Atlantic Avenue and Daytona Beach Shores. And a new second location that we opened here shortly. And again, we have been putting this out on the website, social media Council newsletters and multiple media outlets, as I was sitting here, I think West news came up about it today. There will be multiple in-person registration events, that is happening today, one from 5 to 6:30 PM and more will be coming. A big movement there as we change the way were doing business. In exciting times on that. I do have one other thing and I'm gonna turn it over to Suzanne. Something was mentioned today, I just thought maybe good information for everybody to have who are involved in. SPEAKER: I think Mr. Kent mentioned it would be helpful to pursue some assistance from the federal government to look at flooding in the Midtown of the area it's happy to report that the Army Corps of Engineers did fund a study of the flooding issues in Midtown and it was one of the few new projects, 100% funded by the Army Corps of Engineers and the federal government. They kicked off in July with the series of public workshops, they are studying the area front nova Canal to US one, in from Orange Avenue to Babel, the two square-mile area that is ready a ball because of its low-lying topography, and will will be working in concert with the federal engineers and the city to address the problems of the Midtown area. I just want to make sure the Council was aware of that because they are out in the community and will will all be trying to find solutions and have other applications and parts of the county. I wanted to mention that and thank you. DAVID SANTIAGO: You mentioned Pablo Cruise for the event. Was Mark Anthony not available? SPEAKER: He will be available for the next one, will try to get up. SPEAKER: Jeff Dunham has tickets on sale... Those ticket sales are going very strong. And I believe the college will be hosting a concert by this fall before the end of the year. That will be open to the public, hip-hop genre I've recently seen in concert. More to come. JEFFREY S BROWER: Isn't Don Dempsey the warm up back for Jeff Dunham? SPEAKER: We can make that happen, it's really good Christmas gifts. JEFFREY S BROWER: Before you leave, George, has anybody here besides me old enough to know who Pablo Cruz is? They was good, I hope they still are, I hope they hired a younger singer. Do you have I don't see the ocean centre here. The James Hall Quartet, are they the ones doing music as people enter the ocean Center. You don't have it on your list? They are a local jazz band which I love hiring or inviting local people. Thank you for sharing that. OK. The takes us to Don Dempsey. No jokes? Alright. Troy Kent? TROY KENT: Thank you, chairman. First on my list, that's great news Suzanne, because I'd written down here that we should coordinate a trip if the elected officials from Daytona Beach to go to BC to talk about this flooding issue in Midtown and now we don't have to do that, that is wonderful, wonderful news about the Army Corps engineer, and sure the funding that hopefully will come with that. That is great. To Clay Irving, Clay, you and your team were 100% right on that issue. You were spot on it was just the human side to this that changed my mind anyway. And unfortunately, I miss one meeting, I think in 21 years as being a public servant, I missed three I've had to miss one about a month ago and today we heard from the public, we heard one individual say that she wanted us to keep our current hybrid plan for our meetings one day and time meeting, first meeting of the month, and one afternoon meeting starting at 4 PM I say night time, it starts at 4 PM. I thought it appropriate since it happened when I was here that'll make a motion to keep our hybrid meetings just the way they are. The first meeting of the month will start like a dozen 9 AM and our second meeting of the month will start will start at 4 PM start time. JEFFREY S BROWER: According to our rules, you need to put that on the agenda for the next meeting. TROY KENT: I appreciate that but I saw that when I wasn't here, least when I watched it, there was a motion and a second, and they were going to vote on that and they talked about it was good we moved to January to have a discussion. ***Audio Lost*** TROY KENT: ... That they appreciate the hybrid approach, just like we will heard one person ask and then another said there are so many people who couldn't attend today because they work for a living and they could not be here. That's why I made the motion so that we could keep what we have and hopefully, put this to bed. Just to keep what we have, nothing different, not changing anything, keeping the times the same. Mr. Santiago seconded the motion. JEFFREY BROWER: Councilman Reinhardt. MATT REINHART: Thank you, chair. When we first discussed that, I will admit to the fact that I was in favor of that, but now, for selfish reasons, I have to tell you that the current schedule works for me, and the reason being is I sit on eight different boards, and one of them I chose on my own and that was domestic abuse Council and they actually made on that Tuesday in the morning. It actually accommodates that. Not for selfish reasons but for the fact that so much work needs to be done that I am sticking that out. I want to continue with them. I totally understand where you are coming from and the fact that you are not here when this decision was made. TROY KENT: Thank you for sharing that. There were some comments that I will not go into in-depth, but comments like you know what this was when you signed up, and this shouldn't be for someone to benefit them. I want to put it out right now, on the record, I am not stating this to benefit me at all. When I got elected, I had residents come to me and say you should have nighttime meetings. More would show up period I talked about going all nighttime, and it was no way, let's do a hybrid approach. And I have made that work with my schedule, and I think the hybrid approach is appropriate. I think it gives our residents an opportunity to attend our meetings, and I have got to tell you, I had residents talk to me about meetings alternating over onto the east side, and Don Dempsey, again, I am just going to say, when you are right, you are right, and you said it. This is our county seat. Tallahassee is our state capital and Washington DC is our US capital. I do not know how many times state representatives have tried to change the location to Miami or Orlando, but our state capital is Tallahassee and this is our county seat. I do not mind having that healthy discussion with those residents that ask me. I thought they were valid. They said we think we've had -- we would have more people attend because there are so many people over there. But Don Dempsey ringing that common sense spell again. This is our county seat. I just wanted to bring up this point, since it was already brought up. We could address this right now. JEFFREY BROWER: In your motion, do you have a conflict? Ok, alright. So keeping it exactly like it is. No changes. I am for that. I have heard from so many people about East, West meetings. I know it is complicated. It would be difficult. It would be more expensive. I still think it's something that we should consider. I will reserve the right to bring that up next year, but the motion at our planning session... We will see how the public feels then. I want to do anything to increase attendance. Then, if we went to the east side, we would have to decide if that is daytime or nighttime, and... Anyway. Motion on the floor. TROY KENT: The other part of that is there is a confusion piece to that. People not sure where it is. So again, Don's dome of common sense is coming back to me on that. JEFFREY BROWER: So the motion is to keep it just like it is? George Recktenwald. GEORGE RECKTENWALD: We will obviously do whatever you guys want. I was going to just point out, just looking up the notes from that meeting... September 3. The request was just discussion at the January 2025 organizational meeting for Council meetings to remain in Deland. There was a suggestion of going to all daytime meetings. Motion by Stu Johansen, second by Mr. Robbins. Thus the background. TROY KENT: And now I'm making a different motion. We can talk about that in January if we want to, but it sounds like there are five of us tonight that want to keep it the way that it is. And... JEFFREY BROWER: All in favor? Any opposed? You are right. TROY KENT: Just going by what I heard. The second meeting in May, we had a discussion, and I wanted to make sure you were able to weigh in on it, Mr. Santiago. So I will make another motion to have a discussion brought back to reinstates driving on the beach from international Speedway Boulevard to order told me him -- auditorium Boulevard. I was on the prevailing side of that road, so that I could ring the back. And I am bringing it back to see if we can have that discussion, have that put on a future agenda. Two months? Is that ok? GEORGE RECKTENWALD: You only have one meeting in each of the next two months. So I would say three months. TROY KENT: That's fair. I appreciate that. That will be my motion, to bring that back for a discussion. DAVID SANTIAGO: I'm going to shock you. I will second that discussion. TROY KENT: You shocked me. JEFFERY BROWER: Are you trying to get me to add you to my Christmas list? DAVID SANTIAGO: I think it warrants a discussion. TROY KENT: When that older gentleman, and I'm not trying to talk about his age, but when he said that the first year when that change happened he saw a 50% decrease in his sales, and I am not trying to age myself, but the Taco Bell at the end of that location was the number one sales in all of North America. Because it was a hopping place, and now, there is nothing in that building whatsoever. I think this warrants a discussion. Not that we are going to go there, I do not know that we will, but I think we should have the discussion. JEFFREY BROWER: Did you get a second? TROY KENT: Yes. JEFFREY BROWER: Motion and a second to bring it up? In January. Sorry, we are having a discussion over here. SPEAKER: Is there any member of the public that wants to make a comment for the motion before or after? DAVID SANTIAGO: It is just for discussion. We are not asking to open it up. We are adding it... SPEAKER: We had someone indicate that they wanted to comment on the item on the meeting schedule. I would let him speak. JEFFREY BROWER: Is it John Nicholson? For the times of the meeting? Ok, sure. Let's vote on this. All in favor of opening up the beach between East ISB and the boardwalk? Any opposed? That will come up on the agenda. We already voted on it, but if you want to give your two cents? Give us a whole nickel. SPEAKER: John Nicholson, Beachside. Normally when you vote on something, you open it up to the public read so I expected you to open it up to the public read when you didn't, I went to ask staff if I was correct, and you really should have opened it up to the public read considering the fact that I'm the only public here at the time, it is awkward, alright? When you are talking about starting at 4 PM to allow more of the public to be here, take a look at the time. It is after 5 PM. Most people work till 5 PM. They would be here by now if they were coming. It is absolutely not appropriate to say we are opening it up to the public at night, because the public, in the last six months have not been here when I am the last speaker. So to be honest with you, basically, I am the only one of the public that has to drive all the way back on I 92 at night. The rest of the public is not here. The one gentleman that came up to speak? He got to 4 PM and I haven't seen him since. I understand what you are doing. I don't like the idea that you are doing it when two members of the board are not here. They should be here since they brought it up, and it was delayed to 25 January for them, but it is not delayed for the 25th for you all. It is just kind of like a little bit awkward. But I understand it is what you want. On the 25th, it would have voted that way anyway, but in fairness, they should have had a right to speak. JEFFREY BROWER: Thank you. TROY KENT: I have a couple more items. JEFFREY BROWER: Were you done? I'm going to take him off. Go ahead. TROY KENT: Because Mr. Nichols just spoke, a lot of the things you say I agree with, but I don't get that reverence. How relevant that is. I know you are like Luke who is not here. What time did our meeting start today? Did it start at 4 PM? It started at 9 AM. It is 5:42 PM. There is nothing left on the agenda. Everyone that was here has heard what they wanted to hear and they are heading home, hopefully to have a wholesome meal with her family and loved ones. That's why they are not here. To me, that was not an honest representation. If this meeting started at 4 PM and it was 5:43 PM and you said that, ok, that will make sense to me. But that just doesn't make sense. I feel like our 4 PM meetings have not only been running more efficiently, but we have had a tremendous amount of public participation. I just disagree with you on that and that is ok. My next item that I want to speak with you all about is, George already mentioned it, today is the start of registration for your vehicle to access your beach at no extra charge. You are already paying for it. You can do it online. There is a brick and mortar location. Fantastic stuff. My last two items. Counsel, a few weeks ago I had district dialogue with residents. I have those quarterly. This one was in Holly Hill. I just have to say they are beneficial to me. I hear things from my constituents. It is an open setting. We talk about anything they want to talk about, and I am appreciative of their support of attending those. Last, but not least, I read an email that this county, during the hurricane, offered free childcare for the employees three years of age and older. And I was so impressed by that. I was so impressed that George, you make sure that when there is a crisis situation looming that schools are closed, people don't have anywhere to go but you make sure that there was a solution to that problem, and I am appreciative that you do that for our employees and I just wanted to say thank you for that. With that, have a great evening. all SPEAKER: Thank you for reminding me about that project and many things going out to Congressman Waltz for taking that information from the city of Daytona Beach and mainly Stacy Kent too was a bulldog in that. She took and ran with it because of the need for that. I appreciate that. A couple little things. Over the course, since the last meeting they were doing a each cleanup which happens quite often from what I understand. I joined the students out there in Daytona Beach, Daytona Beach Shores. Probably about 50 or 60 different kids were out there and it was amazing, everybody with that yellow shirt and cleaning up. I thought it was a one time deal and they said we are out here on a frequent basis. When I looked around, there was Coca-Cola was out there with about 20 volunteers. There was a private group that was out there. I thought that was tremendous and again, they say they do it on a frequent basis. That being said it kind of concerned me when they said they do it on a frequent basis. Because of what we were picking up, each of us probably a bag of trash. When one group that I was walking with the young lady turned around and said she found the hypodermic needle, that was kinda concerning. They are using caution when they are doing this, but tremendous effort, Kudo's go out to amaretto. I wish more people would do it. I plan on doing it more often. I mentioned them on the board for domestic abuse counsel formally known as the beacon Centre and they are doing a town hall this Monday at 9:30 AM. One of the speakers will be the Sheriff along with, they have a new board, they have a new Board President. They are in be sharing some information with the respective when new things are going to be happening with that. Some of the construction that is going on and they were trying to redo this and trying to regrow. If you are available, like I said, Monday morning and 9:30 AM, the building over there on the beach side. That is all I have. Think you very much. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you, Councilman Santiago? DAVID SANTIAGO: I just want to point out to Troy, I learned a lot today and I just wanted to share some concerns on how much Don is actually influencing you I don't know what else to do. (Laughs) Thank you Mr. Chair, that's it. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK. I just had a couple quick things, George, you took the first when I had on my list, and I appreciate that, that's why asked if Mr. Judge was here, I wanted to let everybody know how much the county employees were doing for hurricane victims. I think you know and the Council knows, I have two sons in the Florida National Guard, they were both in the panhandle and the devastation there was horrific. A foot-high watermarks on buildings. I wanted to mention one other thing, we all know redeeming hope. Children's home here in... Is it enterprise? They have a location in Madison Wisconsin, Madison Florida as well right in the Big Bend area and got hit hard, they are okayed, they have generators, they have, I'm searching for a group have reached out for area residents and churches about taking a contingency up because they had reported back to us that it's a very poor area, and they have trees down everywhere on houses, the people are helping each other, they are doing everything that you would expect but they don't have chainsaws, they don't have the equipment, they could use some help, there is probably a lot of other essentials that they need and food and paper products. I will keep the Council posted on it, but the redeeming hope in Madison has offered to open up the location if... For volunteers to go up whether they be County or private volunteers, which is where I will leave it out to help the folks there or deliver essential items. I thought that was pretty generous of them. Redeeming hope is provides a great service and they have offered that, I wanted to let everybody know. We just lost him. Now is a good time to appoint him. Here he comes. (Laughter) I would like to make an appointment of David Santiago... The head has requested you, I think it's time for reappointment and the board is... SPEAKER: Florida County District 8 and currently serve on it. DAVID SANTIAGO: Do they know my hourly rate? When do they meet? Is it like regularly scheduled meetings? I've been to one meeting. SPEAKER: They had indicated that you had been to more than one and they did indicate for me to relay to Mr. Brown it felt like you were a good nomination. I could go into exactly.... DAVID SANTIAGO: That's fine. JEFFREY S BROWER: He's nominated. Does the Council approve his nomination question mark I don't think that's necessary for this board. DAVID SANTIAGO: Can you send me the schedule when they meet next? JEFFREY S BROWER: It's weekly. In Orlando. The last thing again, just informational... The Middle East is breaking out in war, I understand, I just checked real quick. It seems to be calm down for the moment, I ran has bombed Israel. Israel retaliated probably stronger. It puts us in a very precarious and dangerous situation around the world. I don't know what it does to our Jewish community here, but I mentioned it, I just think this is important enough that I would ask everybody to keep Israel and our Jewish population here in your thoughts and prayers. And also, all of the people in Iran there, they are not responsible for their government and thousands of them are going to die for bombs. In the same in Israel, their innocent people that are being bombed. The whole Middle East, there are people that have would have no control over... Maybe they do, but my point is that there is a lot of people dying, there's large people being blown up today, and it makes the world a very, very dangerous place. Ideal mean to leave this meeting on a downer, it is important. If you are a praying person, keep them in your prayers. And that's all that I have. I'm glad we dodged a bullet. I know Ryan is very glad we dodged a bullet with storms. There is a couple more brewing out there in the latest reports look like anywhere but here. Yes. Very good. We will adjourn at 5:53 PM. Thank you, council. (Meeting adjourned at 5:53pm EST)