This is a test. This is a test caption. Live captioning by Ai-Media SPEAKER: Welcome to the Volusia County Council Meeting. The meeting will begin in two minutes. If everyone could find their seats, we will get started in just one minute. Just to let you know how we get started, and just a moment I will ask you to stand for the invocation and then for the pledge of allegiance. If you are part of a faith group that would like to participate in the invocation, you are welcome to do so. Just send an email to kgreen@volusia.org. That is Karissa, just here, she will get you all set up. This morning we have Pastor Brad (unknown name) who will lead us in the in vacation. If you would care to stand for that, please rise. SPEAKER: Counsel and community, it is good to be her today and an honor for a chance to pray for you and with you as we see God's work done in our great community. Let us pray together. Father God, thank you so much that you are the great provider and today we have a full day of meetings. We pray for wisdom as decisions are made and as topics are discussed. We pray for patience as we do our best to try to make the best of this community. God, we know that you want to do great things for each of us individually and so God I pray during this time and during this season, this will be a moment for us to reflect where we are with our relationship with you. I pray you draw us into an ever closer relationship with you. God, thank you so much that you are for DeLand, and Volusia County and I praise the Army with our time, efforts and energy, that you get all the glory for that. We love you and thank you and in each name we pray, amen. (Pledge of Allegiance) SPEAKER: Mr. Robbins? Mr. Santiago? Mr. Dempsey? Mr. Johansson? Mr. Kent? Mr. Reinhart? Mr. Brower? JEFFREY S BROWER: We do have a quorum. We are missing Troy Kent, who is probably on his way. Does anyone know? He will not be here? OK. Alright. We have a quorum. We have some public participation which is how we always start our meetings. I will call your name and you can come up to the podium. The podium can go up or down because we would like to have the microphone right in front of you so that everyone can hear you and it is properly recorded. You will have three minutes to talk about subjects that affect the county. And there is a clock, a timer on the monitor in front of you and overhead on the screen. So, please try and stick to the three minutes because we have quite a few, and growing list of people who want to talk. First we have Frank Gingrich. And when you come down, please tell us where you are from in the county. You do not have to give your full address for safety reasons, but if you would tell us which part of the county were from, your representative would like to know that. QUESTION FROM FLOOR: Good morning. Frank green Grinch. Colusa County resident since 1975. My first time in front of the Council. I made a mistake selling a vacant lot I owned to the marina. I thought it would be OK with 35 foot setback required next to my residence. The owner later asked me for a five foot setback instead. When I refused, the harassment has not stopped. I tried to ignore this and it only got worse. I tried to contact him, he did not care to speak to me. In March I had to file complaints with the county. The violations are still there since March. These include working on boats against our side of home by our bedroom. Right up against the house. Parking under historic tree canopies, there are two beautiful historic trees, environmental told him they could not but they continued in defiance. And I love the nature, I live out at the St. Johns River and it is sad to see. Of course on the weekends, that is when he is there all the time. During the week he knows the hours the environmental people so the vehicles move. Employees are living on the houseboat. The employee harasses my wife, myself with loudly music, shouting obscenities at us, lining the property with empty beer bottles. Hanging vulgar signs. Shining bright lights on our bedroom. I have been told the electric and septic tanks on this lot were never permitted. I am asking the county to enforce their own rules. The 35 foot setbacks, the fence between our property. No employees living in the setback area. For (unknown name) island – sorry, pontoon landing, to comply with the codes. These are things that I am asking and… They so far have not been done. I am frustrated. It is gone from beautiful place to live to hell. It is just, it is sad. And with that, I hope someone can do something. I don't know where to go after this if you guys cannot. And ladies. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Michael Dyer, your name – is that a mistake? Did you need to make an opening announcement? SPEAKER: A mistake, thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. Zoltan. SPEAKER: My name is Sultan and I've lived in Volusia County for the past 40 years. I had the great joy to manage the Daytona (indiscernible) located near Speedway Boulevard which is the 92 beach ramp. Today I am here to discuss a matter that is deeply affecting our business and by extension, our community. As you all know, the 92 beach ramp currently is where our store is located. It is currently under remodeling and renovation. I want to highlight the impact of the ongoing construction in front of our store. Unlike previous construction projects, inner-city community, or streets remain partly accessible during construction, this current project is on was completely blocked off our access to our store. Because the fence surrounding the construction site, our store is now almost isolated from the main road. There is about 200 feet, six foot sidewalk from 8182 our store. And also would like to state that the beach is completely closed, so there is no beach access to our stores anymore. This has caused a significant drop in foot traffic and visibility resulting in 80% to 100% declined to our business. The financial straight is considerable. We are facing expenses, rent, wages, utility, of roughly about $400 a day. With this? Losses are becoming increasingly difficult to survive. And in the approximate eight months of construction. Given by the County. Given the challenges, I am here to request some form of compensation inform of some government or state funds for the losses we incurred. We believe with the help and support of the County of Volusia, we can make it during this difficult time and ensure that we are able to continue serving our community once the construction is completed. We have discussed this matter with Mr. Brower, thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. Sam (unknown name). COMMENT FROM FLOOR: Thank you all. I own Sam's coal fired pizza right next to Zully. Before signing my lease a year and half ago I spoke with the director of Cold Stone and I was assured at that time that they would only close half the road, leaving the other half open. So, we will still get business in. June 10 begins our high season and on June 10 they close the entire street completely. They shut down access to the beach. They closed both lanes. Now, everything we carry is basically perishable. I try to stay open. Every day I am throwing out about 500, $600 worth of food. The dough rises and you throw it out if you can use it. It became such a problem, employees were not making to money. We decided to close. With that, we still have to pay our rent, all of our obligations. We have to keep the utilities on. We have to pay our insurance every single month. Now, initially, I was told that they would keep half the road open, work on that half, and once it is complete, they will work on the second half. They have not done that. It is been a complete disaster. It looks like a war zone out there. Three months now, this week has been three months and hardly any work has been done. The last two weeks it has just been two or three people there working. So, they don't have the seawall. They ordered it late. Everything was ordered late. They are looking at another year for this project instead of 8 to 9 months. I am asking if there is any kind of funding that the county can provide to at least help us cover our utilities, our rent, just to get us by through this because the last thing we want to do is just hand over the keys to the landlord and have them come after us for the remainder of the lease. It's a nightmare. It is a complete nightmare. And I also saw so much potential in that area, that I took the 831 to bring in a franchise in there. And that now, I am obligated under that lease but everything else is at a halt. I appreciate you taking this time and please, think of us during this time. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. Thank you both for coming in. Paul Richardson? SPEAKER: Morning counsel, my name is Paul Richardson. I am glad that you were taking the 3.9 million from the American rescue plan act to put towards road safety and pedestrian safety crossings. It's a good time to do this. While we have the funds from the American rescue plan act, so we don't have to increase (indiscernible). However I hope that you are not increasing the millage for reasons. Local governments not only have to have a balanced budget, but also keep a reserve fund. Beating the conservatives here a different thing than on the federal level. You can't guarantee that you won't increase taxes and the funds won't be around forever. Now it seems that we recently met the millage rate of 3.262 at one point. Up 0.855 from the current 3.2007 millage. Luckily, we can nix that plan. In these tough times, reduce accountant assistance need any assistance we can get. At no point am I saying we have to raise the millage. But what about tomorrow? Once was American rescue plan funds are used, the future of Volusia County is going to want to raise the millage. God bless Volusia County, God bless America and (indiscernible) Israel. JEFFREY: Nanette (Unknown Name)? SPEAKER: County Council, and County Management, good morning. My name is Nanette Petrella, I'm a resident of Daytona Beach. This month after completing tenants of dog pilot on the beach. I bring a positive message. Since the launch of the pilot we have seen response will pet owners and top dogs enjoying the beach. The community has come together to create a safe and environmentally sound, courteous environment for residents and visitors alike. Many positive benefits have been recognized, and let me share just a few. First, through July our paw ambassador volunteers removed 2500 pounds of trash from the dog friendly beach. Adding that up to the amount from the beach cleanup stated back to July 2021, our organization has removed 3800 pounds of trash from Volusia beaches. Second Latitude Margaritaville introduced a brand wide day of service in support of singing for a change, a nonprofit created by Jimmy Buffett. Singing for change supports inclusive, grassroots organizations that inspire personal growth, community, integration, and enhances awareness that collectively people can bring about positive change. For the inaugural Jimmy Buffett Day, Latitude Margaritaville chose Daytona Beach Inc. for their partner organization. With a special event permit we hosted people and pause beach cleanup from the main street. To silver beach on Jimmy Buffett date this past Saturday. 180 Margaritaville residents participated. We removed 230 pounds of trash from that one mile stretch of beach. I did provide Karissa with copies of our August newsletter, you will get them at the end of the meeting, which outlines more positive benefits that we have achieved and some that are underway. I want to express appreciation for the collaboration responsiveness, and assistance our nonprofit has received working with County divisions. Special thanks to Tamra and Lene Lewis, Jessica Fentress from Coastal, and Angela from Animal Services. Their engagement with our organization promotes partnership, and helps us achieve common objectives that lead to positive outcomes within our community. And Mark Swanson, congratulations on a remarkable career filled with dedication and the pursuit of excellence that has inspired many. Mark, I wish you all the joy, relaxation, and excitement that retirement brings. You cherish your time with your loved ones, follow your passions, and savor the freedom it offers. Thank you to all and I'm always available if anybody wants to learn more about what we are up to. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Would you share the name of your newsletter? SPEAKER: It called Sandy Tales, we started in 2021. So… JEFFREY S BROWER: I just thought everybody would enjoy that. Thank you. Barbara from Orange City? Here she is. SPEAKER: Good morning, my name is Barbara I have been a resident of Volusia County for six years, and as I said in Orange City. I am here this morning to speak about the amendment for which will be on the November ballot... which will, if it gets past be enshrined in the Florida Constitution. And I'm sure many of us are aware that it would be almost impossible to remove that. The problem with this amendment is the fact that the wording is very vague, it doesn't define any of the terms that are most important. Such as healthcare provider, which means that medical doctor but no longer be required that it could be any whatever you consider a healthcare provider. Might be a chiropractor, might be a dentist, could be anyone. It could be an abortion staff member in an abortion clinic. There are other problems with this amendment, it would remove many of the health and safety regulations that would actually support women. This amendment again is not really helping women. It also removes the parental consent for minors which would be the only surgery that a child would be able to have without a parent consent. The language is very vague and deceptive, I'm not sure why anyone would write an amendment this way, it would seem that you would want voters to understand what an amendment is about. But it definitely endangers the lives of women, as it does not consider so many things that are important, including the fact that how a woman is after an abortion as far as grieving etc. I am representing Little Lives Matter, which is a pro-life group, and all pro-life people that feel that babies have the right as well as women to have the health and safety regulations in place and not have them removed. That's my main reason for presenting this today, and I appreciate your time. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you very much. Elizabeth Pompey? SPEAKER: Good morning my name is Elizabeth. I live on Halifax Drive in (Unknown Name) village. Anyway I'm going to read from it because it's a couple combined from a couple of my neighbors. I am here today in support of the Volusia forever acquisition proposal of the McDonald cattle ranch off (Unknown Name) road which comes before you on the 13th. So we – some of my neighbors have forwarded letters to the Council in support of the acquisition, since they were unable to come today. They have asked me to read portions of their letters to you. Chelsea who lives on Halifax Drive engines in her letter how the acquisition will keep the mission and goals of Volusia Forever program to protect the counties natural biodiversity and resources. And preserve this piece of land, we can prevent displacement of wildlife, avoid water cycle disruption and decrease soil erosion. It developed it would cause more flooding and conditional contamination to the Spruce Creek Basin. Mike who lives on Tomoko Farms road are members when this working cattle ranch that abuts the Longleaf plantation company from his younger days growing up hiking and camping on this property owned by the McDonald's, he knows very well. He states Millers Creek runs through the property and is still proceeding, cattle calves, deer, black bear, hogs and elusive Florida panther can be seen on the speed of the property that Mike states is one of God's great gifts to the community. And he states what a gift for the future generation of Volusia County residents to preserve this property and others like it. To sustain our heritage as a rule of farming open space community, the current land use regulations of the Tomoko Farms village were set in place to do that. As many in Volusia, we already have uncontrolled flooding in this area, that needs to be addressed. Preserving this area will keep from adding to this issue, any further. Please when this acquisition comes before you, consider moving it to a high priority. Thank you for listening. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you, John Nicholson? SPEAKER: John Nicholson, Daytona Beach side. First of all item 3, retirement of Mark Swanson. I would ask you to deny that. Just for a couple of years like 10 or 15 where we can find replacement that is comparable. Other than that, maybe you might think about keeping him. Secondly, with regards to the beach approach. I do have to admit it is the worst bungled road in Daytona Beach we have had some terrible ones, and they want a several times, Mainstreet, etc. The traffic light for those exiting the beach or from that area is still on. The roads being closed, for several months, and yet you have to sit there and trouble your thumbs while no traffic is moving for no reason. Also lanes are closed that can't be open to turn. Because you are stuck there with two lanes, one of which if you want to turn it those lights at Grandview or Halifax or whatever, there is space to put a turning lane, they just pluck it off for apparently no reason. They are not doing any work on the area, they just close the lane because that is what they wanted to do. It is causing problems not only for the residents or tourists, now you are finding out our business people. It is a terrible and I would ask you to look into it. Third I was asked, well actually just brought it up in the last meeting. And my voting. I amassed all the time what I am pushing for. In Sunday's paper there were several people back in his opponent. And I am asked all the time, I asked some buddy from the chamber, who are you looking for in your city, and then the County. It is unfortunate we don't have a radio station any longer that will be able to discuss was good in his bed and what their views are. We no longer have a newspaper that is published seven days a week that will discuss who's good, who's bad and whatever. Jeff assumes because I voted against him last time I'm going to vote against him this time. That is not the case. All right? Yes, I have been harping on him to grow up and be a leader for four years, it doesn't mean that he hasn't moved at all, all right? There has been tremendous movement on this counsel, the previous first two years he was bounced on by only 6 of the 7 members attacked him. Now he only has to. So he has gained a bit of your appreciation, because he himself has changed. So I am asking that at some point you all let the public know how you feel because they are not getting it from anywhere else. Actually Jeff sort of. Absolutely Mark. Excuse me. Talk to after. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank God that's over. Don, did you write that? MARK SANTIAGO: he needs to have the disclosure on there. JEFFREY S BROWER: Before I asked for the motion on item 1 which is the approval of the agenda, Mark Watts, would you come up? The reason I'm doing this is because it will affect some people here waiting for an item. There are some people online that are waiting to hear items five and six. And I believe you have some news on it. SPEAKER: I do, thank you Mr. Chairman, Mark Watts from the law firm, 231 N. We have been monitoring just some of the conversations that been happening on social media platforms over the past couple of weeks. This item was appealing to the RCMP and did not have any objection or concern about that. We heard some in the neighborhood surrounding neighborhoods, and so we would like to ask for a 90 day continuance we can schedule a neighborhood meeting. Give us an opportunity to listen to what the concerns are, Mr. Chairman, I think from our record we would like to come up with a price where we can, if there are things we can do to have an opportunity to sit down with the neighborhood properties. I am asking for 90 days because I'm going to be out of town for the next 10 days, it will give me time to then schedule a meeting, get notices sent out to the surrounding neighborhoods, have that meeting and then follow up with staff with any potential revisions for this conversation. JEFFREY: You are going to table it for a time starting for 90 days SPEAKER: I will bring it when I get back. DAVID SANTIAGO: Procedurally speaking we are going to table it may be. SPEAKER: That's what I'm requesting. DAVID SANTIAGO: I'm open to the extension, I would have to make this public announcement, it concerns me that social media is driving your narrative. Help us on the case. I hope you're working with our staff. Certainly we want to address the neighboring residence concern. But social media has become a poisoned while lately, these keyboard warriors and normally I will finish in a second. There is a small handful of people to try to dictate the future of half a million people or more in this county. So I just want to… SPEAKER: I certainly appreciate that, and I don't think we look at that and have that (indiscernible) when we are asking to do. When we see opportunities to correct misunderstandings or provide some additional detail and how the process is set to control stormwater and traffic. I want to take that opportunity if you will provide it, so that we can try and answer some of those questions before we are trying to do it in front of the (indiscernible). MATT REINHART: Mr. Santiago, I certainly know what you are talking about on social media, but that is there one outlet to be able to voice that. We have received – at least I have – several emails with respect to that. We have talked about that and therefore would like to make a motion to agree with the continuance for 90 days, or as stated. Or a date, the December 3 meeting at 9:30 AM or later. December 3. SPEAKER: In your motion includes including the rest of the agenda? SPEAKER: Yes, thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: We have a motion on the floor from Esther Reinhart to approve item 5 and six, to table at a time certain which is December 3. Is there a second? DON DEMPSEY: Seconded. JEFFREY S BROWER: Any other motion to..? OK. We have quite a few requests to speak on five and six. Would you still like to speak on those? SPEAKER: Mr. Chairman, if we get copies of those we can make sure that we include those people in the neighborhood meeting. JEFFREY S BROWER: Could we get copies to Mr. Watts? Thank you. All in favor of the motion to approve the agenda with this exception? Say "aye" ? Any postmark motion carries 6-0. That brings us to the consent agenda. We have two members of the public who would like to speak to the consent agenda. Does any councilmember have an item that they would like to pull for either a comment or eight vote? DAVID SANTIAGO: Comment and question. JEFFREY S BROWER: But not a boat? Councilman Santiago will have a comment on K. But not a vote. SPEAKER: You do have two public participations wishing to speak. One would only like to speak if an item was pulled and I believe that was item K. But that could be wrong. JEFFREY S BROWER: One would only like to speak – what? SPEAKER: If an item is pulled. JEFFREY S BROWER: So, we have Stephanie and Amy. Amy, would you like to speak still? Come up and do that before we vote. And Stephanie and Joseph Sullivan, you are welcome to speak as well. COMMENT FROM FLOOR: I realize this is on the consent agenda but I just wanted take time to thank the Volusia forever community for including the Carraway Lake parcel in their age group and we certainly hope that you will ratify that. It is an important piece of property, especially for DeLeon Springs with the watershed, and the wildlife corridor and it does have a possibility of being developed with 44 homesites at this point. So, it is important to us that that does not happen and it stays on Volusia forever is a list. JEFFREY S BROWER: Stephanie, Joseph? COMMENT FROM FLOOR: Morning of one. Ladies first. COMMENT FROM FLOOR: We are hearing the Boys and Girls Club and first I would like to say Thank you to this counsel. We have a teen center project that is underway in Deland and we want to say thank you, thank you, thank you for all of your support and I will let you speak. COMMENT FROM FLOOR: My name is Joe and I've been here since 1992. Yes, we would compare our bald heads. But, just here to say thank you. Again, our club has been in Springhill for 25 years. I think we made a lot of difference in that community. We still have a lot to do. Back in 99, we cleaned up the building that was built in 1930. That is the one we will tear down and rebuild. The county put a park across the street for us. We built a pavilion there in 2004. The CBG partnership, we raised 432,000, you guys have matched that. It will pay dividends for years to come. Our club will be named after (unknown name) the beautiful, she has been there for 25 years. But without Volusia County support, myself and this organization would not be here. We are your lead agency for all of the afterschool programs. And we are different. We are there for kids every day? They can all afford to belong, this is all we do. So again, just here to say thank you and your staff have been wonderful because there are a lot of intricacies when you have to build a building and use federal money, we knew nothing about that. They held her hand. I know people complain about staff all the time – I'm here to say thank you to them and thank you to you guys for making a big difference. Again, any questions for me or the club, this is going to be a very exciting time for us. I also want to say that Once upon a time, Congressman (unknown name) got his money to build the new Learning Center there as well. We have a lot of good public and private partnerships but our one with you, and I can say you guys, is one of the best. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. Do I have a motion to approve by Councilman Reinhart? All in favor? Any opposed? Motion carries 6-0 in Councilman Santiago, if you would like to discuss item K. DAVID SANTIAGO: Brad, this is more a question for education and to make us more aware, I think the last few times we were talking about Volusia forever. One of my colleagues last time asked about how much land in Volusia County is currently preserved in a conservation status. Could you give us an update? SPEAKER: 6000 (indiscernible) acres. About 36%. 121, I will stand by what I said, 50% is the goal. DAVID SANTIAGO: And we are currently at 36%? It is currently preserved. SPEAKER: Yes. I will say is any good academic, it can change based on the type of land you are conserving. But a good rule of thumb is one to one. DAVID SANTIAGO: Thank you. And I don't want to give you direction, but if we could get some type of analysis on how, a chart analysis on how much we have been preserving over the years, you know? Year-by-year so many acreages have gone up? So that I could see over the duration of time how we are performing an acquisition? SPEAKER: Sure. DAVID SANTIAGO: Thank you. That is all I got, Mr. chair. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you, Brad. In Georgia, we are tabling item 3? JAKE JOHANSSON: The vice mayor is not here, unfortunately. So, George? Again. You did a great job with the consent agenda. I appreciate it. Thank you, sir. JEFFREY S BROWER: His presence is still felt, even when he is not here. That takes us to item 3. The proposed retirement of Mark Swanson. DAVID SANTIAGO: It is proposed? JEFFREY S BROWER: We have not voted on it yet. SPEAKER: It is differently bittersweet moment. We are happy for Mark but you have to retire sometime, right? Mark started on his career back with the foundation eve act in 1985. He was about 12 years old and he came over with a lot of great people when the Council made the decision to take evac in-house and create the EMS and he came over in October 2011 as our political services manager. In that function he was very well known. When I got to learn a lot about the organization, I could see right away that Mark was one of the key players as he was the person who kept up with all of our clinical standards, made sure that our folks were up to par, kept track of all of our inventory of drugs and controlled substances. A very important position. And in 2013, he came to us and said, "hey, I would like to compete for" and he did, for the beach services director. He was promoted at that time in 2013 and he served in that function for three and half years. He was promoted again in 2016 to the Beatty public protections director where he took on the operational response abilities of many of the units in public protection at that time. Public protection at that time had nearly 1000 people and we decided with the Council's support, we split that into two functions. And in 2021, Mark was confirmed as the director of public protection. So, he is had a very distinguished career here. In addition to the career, with those positions, he had another back position that he did very well and he was the leader of our critical incident stress management team. Mark was responsible and his team to help people when they have gone through maybe some of the worst moments of their lives. A lot of PTSD type of events. Maybe also personal tragedy. Mark was always right there with him and his team to help those people and I think that is a credit to the person he is and he has always been a big believer in that for everybody. He has been the counselor professional. Very, very knowledgeable on all things public protection. He is going to go spend more time – welcome he has a side gig he will do before he totally retires. He has been married to his wife Jody for 45 years. He has a daughter, Caitlin. One of Mark's sayings, there is no greater calling than one of a true public servant. So, he is going to continue doing that, he says even in retirement. Mark, he will be sorely missed, thank you for 40 years of great public service and as a great public servant. JEFFREY S BROWER: We have two members of the Council that would like to speak, but why don't you go first? COMMENT FROM FLOOR: I have something here that I would like to read so I don't forget anybody. County Counsel member's and staff, first of all, thank you for all of your support throughout my career. County Counsel has always been there for me. Supporting me and I truly appreciate that. Today is a great moment but also very sad moment as I and my 40 year career with Volusia County. My career has provided we with many opportunities to grow into the person I am today. My career as a public servant has been purposeful, as I've utilized all the tools I have obtained throughout my career to provide the best service possible to the citizens and visitors of Volusia County. There is no greater calling than one of the true public servant. A very important part of my career was, in the secret to my success, has been my enormous emotional and physical support that I've continuously received from my wife and family. It is without support I was able to provide the needs of others. A very wise person told me early in my career to always be truthful to the person that looks back at you in the mirror. Stand up for others when Hugh should do the right thing, even if it makes your peers feel uncomfortable. Remember there is no right way to do the wrong thing. When it comes to your work, always bring your a game. Make a difference every day. I wish to thank some key people. First and foremost, George Rectenwald, County manager, who I consider a great friend and who is always believed in me and supported me in the directions I chose to keep public protection moving in the positive direction. Deputy County manager, A tremendous mentor and has remained open-minded and given me great advice as I observed as a public protection director. Both their support is proved instrument on my success. Lastly, I want to thank my staff. I could never imagine I would be blessed with such amazing support. I continue to be successful because of the unconditional support I received from them. Operations manager, Senior staff assistant, Michelle (unknown name), and management specialist Denise (unknown name). They will be remember it and appreciated. As a venture on I wish the best for Volusia County and I will continue to pray for each of you and your families. Thank you. JAKE JOHANSSON: Thank you, sir. I am ecstatic that you are moving on, because I know you've got – I know you have some views on what you want to do in the future. And public service is something that I treasure, it's all I know as well. And I very much appreciate every ounce of every day that you have given to the public. And I hope you do it in some other form, I would hope you would make more than a few more dollars doing it. But I understand that usually our calling doesn't come with big money. But do yourself a favor, sleep in for a day or two. Read a book. Spend time with family and friends. And then maybe hit the ground running next Monday. All right, thanks for everything you did for us. I appreciate it. MATT REINHART: Thank you chair. Mark, thank you for your service. Thank you for being a mentor, a teacher, and a friend. You have taught me quite a bit during my tenure, and it is valued and it will be missed. And keep your phone on, like you said. Because we will still reaching out to you. A couple little things, I'm a little jealous because I think more correction showed up for you today than it did for me when I retired. So – but I want to thank you, and same thing. This is a testament right here with the people from fire, EMS, and animal control and corrections. You have done a phenomenal job at a phenomenal career. The fact that your next venture will still be nearby, I'm very very grateful for that. So thank you very much. DANNY ROBINS: Thank you chair, who is going to be in the lead for retirement? Jim Judge? Alright, we are keeping track, he's on his 18th time. But Mark, thank you for everything. You know it is not every day you look at somebody that is been employed at an establishment for this long. And for as long as I have been alive, to make you feel older anything. We appreciate you, if I didn't inject some humor in it. It just probably wouldn't be me. But we appreciate you, the staff appreciate you, the public appreciates you. And we are just so thankful for your service and your continuous service in the community. So thank you, hopefully you get some time to relax a little bit, take a breath, and reevaluate, like Jake said get the ground running here. DAVID SANTIAGO: What is the effective date? SPEAKER: This Friday is my last date. DAVID SANTIAGO: I thought a lawyer could leave during hurricane season, that is for insurance policies, thank you for your service appreciate working with you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Since the word we cannot mentioned was just mentioned, I think I would be remiss to not thank you for the community of O'Steen. I got to know you well during the two storms which whose names we are not allowed to say by our chief officer, all storms have been canceled for this year. (Laughs) You remember what happened with extensive flooding everywhere and you have been known to be the sand bag champion everywhere. I don't know how many were placed around the county that there was a lot of them. So you learn a lot of people in the face of adversity. And of long -- around-the-clock challenges. So thank you for your hard work in those kinds of emergencies. And best of luck to you going forward. You are not going far. Okay. And cake at 11? SPEAKER: When we get together for Mark, it will be a Friday afternoon if anybody wants to stop by. SPEAKER: Pictures? JEFFREY S BROWER: Okay. Before we take his picture, we should approve this or not approve it. Do I have a motion? Motion to approve by Councilman Reinhart, second? By Jake Johansen, all in favor say ay? Any opposed? Any opposed? Motion carried six to zero. (Applause) SPEAKER: Are we missing anybody? Oh good, okay. Bottom row, giant step that way. SPEAKER: He's already retired...again. SPEAKER: I see you, ready. One more. Gotcha! (Applause) JEFFREY S BROWER: Okay, that brings us to item 4 IUPA beach safety collective bargaining agreement. Is Dana, there she comes. COMMENT FROM FLOOR: Good morning, (Unknown Name). JEFFREY S BROWER: Can somebody raise that for him? COMMENT FROM FLOOR: I learned a few things sitting in the back. We are here today obviously for the ratification of the contract between the county and then a UPA waterman Association. I have a few words that I'm going to go ahead and read off, the director (Unknown Name) sent. I thought she did a very good job with. I want to acknowledge the time, effort, and dedication that both sides have invested in these negotiations. The commitment to reaching a fair and equitable agreement is commendable. This agreement brings much needed stability. And security to our lifeguards which is crucial, given the vital role they play in ensuring the safety of both local and visitors. Ongoing collaboration between the union and the county is essential. And we appreciate the county's dedication to upholding the highest standards of safety and professionalism in the beach safety services. I would also be remiss in pointing out the support from the Council, I appreciate that. And with that I would again did over to the president (Unknown Name). SPEAKER: Good morning everyone. Sgt. (Unknown Name) of County Beach Safety. I'm the Volusia Waterman's President for local 6039. This is my second contract I worked on so far. This one took a little while. Because sometimes it's arduous but I would like to take this moment to thank Dana and (Unknown Name) for their continuing professionalism, it hasn't gone unnoticed and I thank you for that. This contract, I'm glad to have it done, give some stability, director (Unknown Name) said for our members. Just on a personal note. I have done this job for almost 3 decades now, long time ago I made a decision to make a career. And it is been nothing but fulfilling and rewarding for me. I'm hoping to pass that along for the next generation. I want to hopefully generate that spark and get that career minded, not just a job, just to be here, I would like to think the Council for recognizing the need for a career lifeguard agency. It is an extremely important job. And it is my pleasure all these years to have served the public in the capacity. When the transition happened it was an easy choice for me. I weighed the difference between my impact on the public as an ENT, and as a law enforcement officer when I was doing all three. The life guardian part we surpassed and the impact they had, like the thousands of families, I would have people come up to me and they recognize me saying you pulled me out of a rip current, that was 20 years ago and they still recognize me. It had an impact on them and their family members. This is the greatest job I've ever had and I'm optimistic abut the future, we have had a lot more kids sign up, we are getting more tower staff this year than last year. It's a good sign. And I can speak the members today that we are optimistic and we are looking forward to director Melford's direction in our plans moving forward. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you County Manager? George? SPEAKER: We had a very great union team. I had to wrestle with some difficult issues. Change is difficult. And change is a level of division that is had to go through, it can be crushing. Instead they have taken it and gone in a positive direction. I'm very happy to hear what the direction that they are taking and they are getting more tower guards. I think we are moving everything in a direction it needs to go. And I agree with Mr Webstein. The impact they have on people on a daily basis, there is not a day out there that they are not impacting people. And of course many cases saving their lives. So I'm very happy with this agreement and I'm happy with the direction in which they are going. And I want to thank them because it has definitely been a difficult term and time for them, but they are handling it very well, and I think a big bright future is in store for them out there. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Dana, anything? You were good? David Santiago? DAVID SANTIAGO: Approve the agreement? JEFFREY S BROWER: Motion to approve by David Santiago, is there a second? Second by Matt Reinhart. I just want to say this, just take off on what you said... Matt sits on the advertising board. And we spend a lot of money attracting people to our beaches. There are, in the course of your service, there are not just from you, but all of your colleagues there are thousands of breaths being taken today that might not be. There are hearts beating that might not be. So it's not a surprise to me when people remember to thank you for something 20 years ago. We put more people out of rip currents and dangerous situations. You do a great job. Please keep building, tower guards are hard to find. We are doing about as best jobs can be expected. I know you don't leave any pool undisturbed, looking for a potential lifeguard. Thank you both. Please take that back to the troups from this counsel that we appreciate your service. We have a motion to approve the contract by Councilman Santiago, second by Matt Reinhart. Any other discussion? All in favor say aye? Any opposed? Motion carried 6 to 0. Thank you very much. That takes us to item 7. Resolution 2024. Rezoning and planned unit development and clay, I will let you take it away. CLAY ERVIN: Good morning, I'm the director of resource management and before you is a reversal of a PUD back to RR. This was truly rezoned to allow for both residential and a commercial nursery to operate. The original applicant did not follow through. The current applicant purchased the property and seeks only to build a single-family home, therefore, the conditions established in the PUD eliminated and go back to RR. That is consistent with the land use. Your staff send this forward to the planning and land development recommendation with approval at the PLDR meeting. One spoke in support and otherwise commit is coming to you with unanimous recommendation of approval from the planning and development regulation committee. Any recommendations from staff would be happy to answer any questions. DAVID SANTIAGO: Motion to approve. JEFFREY S BROWER: Santiago makes a motion to approve, any second? Seconded by Danny Robins. SPEAKER: Mr. chair come for you vote, if there are any (indiscernible), now would be a time to disclose it. JEFFREY S BROWER: None. We have applicant, if you would like to speak? Randall Marshall. COMMENT FROM FLOOR: Yes, I'm from Norton city Florida and not sure I can add more than the gentleman presented to you already. I did buy this property in 2001. It was an abandoned nursery and I bought it from the owner also owns the parcel to the north. I'm surrounded by RR diagonally to the northwest and then the current owner of the 10 acres, and PUD is nothing that I need and I'm seeking RR - which is less dense than the R4 and I'm asking for less than a possible he could have asked. I have lived about a quarter-mile from there and I would like to keep it as rural as it possibly could be. I am requesting for a zoning for RR change. JEFFREY S BROWER: We have a motion to approve that request. Any other discussion? All in favor, say I? Any opposed? Motion carries 6-0. Thank you. Item 8. Special exception for communication tower. CLAY ERVIN: The morning, the subject property is located on US 17 at 1255 N. US 17 near the town of Pearson. It is property owned by the sea excess railroad. They are a small sliver of land between the US 17 and the real world where the applicants are seeking to put a 255 foot high cellular telephone tower. Guide capabilities for multiple antenna to be located on. Staff reviewed for criteria. They are established in our code for towers exceeding 70 feet. And met all of those. There were variances that were submitted in regards to setbacks that the planning and land development regulation commission approved subject to the County Counsel approving this special exception. In the planning and land Feldman commission did recommend it for approval. It is coming for approval from both your staff and the planning and development regulation commission. If there any questions we would be happy to answer them in the applicant is available here. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. Councilman San Diego? DAVID SANTIAGO: No expertise for me but I moved to approve. JEFFREY S BROWER: Santana makes a motion to approve, the second is Councilman Robbins. Does anyone else have any X partake to declare? None? The applicant patent is here if you would like to speak? COMMENT FROM FLOOR: Thank you. Patent (unknown name), burning in Alabama and I represent the applicant here today. I do not have much to add. The staff report indicates that we meant the necessary requirements and the planning commission recommended it unanimously and it will improve the coverage along the highway. Happy to answer any questions you might have. JEFFREY S BROWER: Any questions? Thank you very much for coming. All in favor of the special exception, say I? Any opposed? Motion carries 6-0. And that takes us to item 9 with Clay Ervin, once again. CLAY ERVIN: Director of growth and resource management. This is an amendment to the variance criteria to reduce the number of criterion survey requirements that we have chosen to investigate. This is in regard to criteria applied by staff in evaluating applications for variances that go to the planning and land development commission. There are currently five criteria which applicants have to meet, all five, otherwise staff – is basically necessary to recommend denial. The Council looked to see if we could do something to address that so it is now down to three of the five, in other words, the majority of the criteria must be met. Also, there is an ability to address the date of the survey before it was – you know, it was costly to the applicants with this change in regards to the survey requirements and provide some of the greater opportunity. This is consistent with your goals that you provided to your staff and we are bringing it forward based on your direction. If there's any questions we would be glad to answer. Outcome in the planning and land develop and regulation commission unanimously recommended approval. JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman Sandy go? DAVID SANTIAGO: Thank you for making it easier to work with Volusia County government. That is this council's goals and it still has many checks and balances within and I moved to approve, Mr. chair. JEFFREY S BROWER: Counts among San Diego makes a motion to approve and it was seconded by Councilman Robbins. Any other discussion? Questions? All in favor say I? Any opposed? Motion carries 6-0. Moving right along. Item 10. Fee schedule. And Aaron. SPEAKER: Good afternoon, Aaron (unknown name), finance director. This is updated fees for charges of services. This is in response to our internal audit last year. And also counsel's desire to have a more regulatory update to our fee schedule. So can we have the fees listed out here. In the presentation we have some fees that have already been updated and listed here for you, the beach access fee and transit fares are actually some of the next items. Ambulance fees, sewer water sales – for the fees we bring in front of you, we have animal services, I will not read every fee. You have already reviewed this. Fire services, mainly, the only fees being adjusted are the training center and it is for groups that come to use the training center. A lot of municipalities and other counties. And then GRN for their Lyonia environmental center, deals with a lot of their education and future programs. In library services. The adjustment there is to nonresident library cards. Parks and Recreation, the only adjustment is to their new veterans memorial Plaza to set the rental fees for that plaza. And we also have the public works CPI + 1 up to that index based on the garbage and trash collection and that will be adjusted in January. They are all recommended for October 1 with the exception of these that are January, so that municipalities will have the time to adjust their budgets to whatever the fees being set up. In the ocean center. There is not a list in the PowerPoint, the list was attached to the agenda item because there were too many fees to just list out. The ocean center, and anything they're trying to do is create more synergy through the fees that they are charging instead of individual parts and pieces, they have a more collective charge for the entire center and then some more individual pricing as they have. SPEAKER: CFO, just want to clarify the January comment. We want to just using the CPI index as of January. All of these fees we look at here would be effective October 1, 24, with the exception of the solid waste CPI. We would not be looking to have that effective for October 1, 24. That would not give time to municipalities to adjust their contracts. That when we would do next January's data to do October 1, 2025. I will finish it up from here as well. The departments are here if you have any questions about any particular fees that were listed in the presentation to discuss. Other than that, we will take any questions. JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman Robbins? DANNY ROBINS: Thank you. Do we have to accept this right now or is this something we can do after election to see which way this country is going? SPEAKER: The fee schedule changes are all at the discretion of County Counsel. The changes listed here were developed in a parallel track with the budget. Although, the budget is prepared absent any of these fee changes. So, if they are not approved this has not set us behind in the budget. DANNY ROBINS: OK. I will save the rest for comments. JEFFREY S BROWER: Any other questions? No? There is not a motion yet. Would anyone like to make a motion? MATT REINHART: I will make a motion to move forward so that we can discuss. JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman Reinhart makes a motion to approve and Councilman Reinhart does that to make discussion. DANNY ROBINS: Thank you. Real quick, in reviewing this, I don't have some of the problems with some of the areas that are addressed for non-visitors or – on visitors? Nonresidents. Before we start putting on more fees, I would just as this counsel to please consider – let us see if we can get this on after the election, or maybe in December? The last thing I want to do – we are making a lot of cuts in the general fund and I want to see, a lot of people are struggling and I don't want to see us tack on more and more fees when this economy is already heading in a bad – I don't want to put more burden on the people if we don't have to. I could support something like this after the general election. It would make me feel a lot more comfortable. But I don't think I would be game for right now. So. JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman Johansson? JAKE JOHANSSON: I don't mind waiting but I don't take an election in November will change the economy in December. So, I will... Waiting might be in our best interest. I am not sure that December is the right timeframe either. I would like to discuss this a little bit and see how to move forward in the best interest of the county. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. Councilman Santiago? DAVID SANTIAGO: We have a motion pending, don't we Mr. chair? JEFFREY S BROWER: We have a motion to approve so that we could vote it up or down or amend it. DAVID SANTIAGO: Thank you, I'm just thinking for a second. I wonder if the sponsor of the motion would be willing to amend it to a time uncertain. MATT REINHART: I would. DAVID SANTIAGO: And a seconder? He made the motion I suggested it. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK. The motion or, Matt Reinhart and the seconder, Jake Johansson vote to move to a time uncertain. OK. And we need to discuss the motion before we vote on it. County manager George (unknown name)? SPEAKER: I might ask ask many of the fees are between the fire departments of the county, also the ocean center, that's for people using the ocean center, that is the recommendation the council to consider each of the sections individually. With our new director that is making things happen over there. Has the ability to package these things, and to negotiate but it would be good to have I think that in motion as soon as we can so that we can work a little bit towards having the ocean center be more dependant on the events going on inside it rather than as dependent on the tourist taxes. So, if the Council would entertain doing that, bring them up by section and if there was something that you guys wanted to defer to a later date, that might be okay. But again, we purposely work through this, and most of these would be stuff that doesn't necessarily go to the general public. Most of them are between agencies or businesses. JEFFREY S BROWER: Okay Councilman Reinhart? MATT REINHART: I would agree to that, there were some, and during our discussion and update, I saw jumps into quite a few that were explained to me. For example, the ocean center, there were some fees there that are questioned, but I have the utmost faith in Ms. Flanders to be able to negotiate some of those, and that was very happy to hear that she has the ability to do just that. So for ones that are not affecting the public, I would like to hear by one that (indiscernible). JEFFREY S BROWER: We can make it uncertain for... DAVID SANTIAGO: Can I make a recommendation? Thank you Mr. chair. Since we have the motion already did table, maybe we can amend that and have staff just bring it back to the next meeting, which is just two weeks? The ones that we, he knows you want to hear and approve. It's just a two week delay. Does that make sense? George? That we still table it, but bring back the inner agency ones at the next council meeting. SPEAKER: Sure, we'll have it... Tuesday night. DAVID SANTIAGO: Instead of going through every single one? JEFFREY S BROWER: You don't need us to do that right now. So the motion is amended to a time uncertain except for the specific nonresident fees that will come back in two weeks. If that acceptable to everybody? That motion? Councilman Johansson? JAKE JOHANSSON: Thank you. I don't want people to lose sight of the fact that every fee is paid for by the public who is hurting for the economy. Right? If somebody is coming into the ocean center from out of town, as an association, take your pick on whatever that is, they want to come to the Ocean Center, we want them to come here. And like Mr. Reinhart said, Ms. Flanders can negotiate that. She should've been given that ability anyhow. At raising fire Department fire department fees. If we charge (indiscernible) beach a little bit more to use our fire training facility, they have to pay for that somehow. And they pay for that with their taxes. So let's not kid ourselves that we are not raising taxes. We are just not raising our taxes. Right? So as we bring these things forward next week, we need to consider that. I'm not saying that we shouldn't. Because again, I had that sunrise metaphor, I don't want to ignore our infrastructure until we fall apart. Like the condos did. I want to pay for what we should be paying for. And I want other people to pay for what they should be paying for. And I think the fire training facilities is one of those. I'm sure between cities and the county, there is a little quid pro quo on things. And I leave that onto George and stuff to work out. And I would like to give them the ability to work out and do that as well. But, when we move forward to the portion next week, just want everybody to consider that when we are making that decision. Thank you sir. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. County Manager George? GEORGE: I would like to say I think we are all cognizant of the fact that somebody is paying for (indiscernible) I did want to come to say that the public is at least indirectly, but the fee directs the usage, in other words you know we have a lot of general government that is tax based. And then there user fees. And that is what we have here before you today. So that helps with maybe getting the correct person or the correct entity paying for it. Versus maybe the general public at large. That is really, our fees help us hone in on those, we are using it. They are paying for versus, often these things are subsidized, so there is that mix of will be laid on the base. We have a fire department. That is paid for through our fire attacks. In the training and certain elements of it are paid through the general fund, because they affect the entire county. But the use is very specific. In the taxpayers of that particular municipality should be the ones paying for that particular service at that time. Good point with the ocean center. We are trying to have it less dependent on the taxes, the tourist taxes. And have it stand a little bit more on its own. And we think the value was out there. Again we are not going to do anything to lose business. In some cases if you really look at what she's proposing there, a lot of this is packaging. We are not nickel and diming, is how they package it. Which gives her a little bit better way to sell what's going on over there. So that's really what you are looking out there. Some of the other items that were on the list, which we can bring back work again in the case of animal services. There were complaints really for the public for the private sector. That may be some of our services were not so low-cost that it was hurting people, veterinarians, who were actually trying to also compete and use those services. And then when it comes to the solid waste, we are embarking on an absolutely necessary large capital project has to be funded correctly, and will be borrowing money well to do that. So again it's about being able to pay for that loan, that we can build a probably nearly $40 million cell that is absolutely required. DANNY ROBINS: Yes, I think this will give us a little bit of an opportunity to dig in on some of the one that won't be affecting more of our residents. Like the garbage fees, we have raised some of the tipping fees, I want to say a year or two ago, they haven't been raised in 20 some odd years, we've raised them. What I don't want to do that we have seen in recent events and I will use this new phrase, I don't want to tax our resident again, instead at no extra charge, because some of the stuff we do pay for in our taxes. And I want to use a couple things as a model. So I think given a little bit of time to identify those things that will affect the locals will be great. Thanks. JEFFREY S BROWER: So the motion on the floor is to table the majority of this to a time uncertain. In two weeks, County staff will bring back certain categories that need to be dealt with more immediately. Any other discussion? Questions? All in favor say aye? Any opposed? And that motion carries also 6 to 0. Item 11, consideration of changes to Vo Tran affairs. Janine and Bobby King? COMMENT FROM FLOOR: Good morning, Bobby King. Volusia County Transit Services Training Director. I'm here to propose a discussion item from a continuation from our May discussion from fares of boat training but right. We are going to go through a very quick PowerPoint presentation to meet our federal requirements for Title VI. So we did six crossed the county public meetings and a few virtual's as well. And we did receive a few comments in those meetings as well as via email or from bus cards that our riders provided. For the most part, most of the fee increases were supported. Obvious that we had a lot more discussion from the transit rate than any other discussion. So just to remind you what we discussed as possible rate increases in May. The only difference that I am presenting today is the paratransit gold service rates. We are allowed to do double up with a fixed rate is. If you approve today which will be two dollars. But we don't have to go to four dollars, which is – if we go a whole dollar that is 33 1/3% increase. All of the other rates appear are less than 15% or somewhere around 15% or less. For the increases. And you can see they are very minimal increases. So my recommendation would be to do 350 at this point. We can always address another increase at a later date. I'm going to move on and let you ask some questions. And then slide it over to you. So the VoRide rates are little bit different. We charge two dollars for a one-way trip, and then right now it's up to 8 miles. We are having a lot of interest in Vo ride, so we want to make sure we continue to provide good service there. The availability of rights, and we have been working with our contractor to look at ways to you know, spread it out a little bit, maybe include another vehicle or two. It we are staying within our budget. And so their biggest suggestion was eliminate long trips. And so we do do a free transfer to the bus. And so those opportunities are still very much available but we are recommending that we limit the two dollar one-way fare to 5 miles. So if you want a ride that is going to take you longer than 5 miles, we are recommending an additional dollar per mile up to 10 miles which would be a seven dollar rate. And so that is our recommendation right now. So we want to, if approved today, we want to make these rates effective January 1, with the exception of VoRide, and B are requesting that you allow us to make us effective as soon as possible so we can incorporate more volume, more ability to provide the rights. And that is my presentation. JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman Santiago? DAVID SANTIAGO: I need you to refresh my memory on the VoRide. That could also take, I think you mentioned also to the bus? To the bus – but the bus is only in certain locations it's a hub? Is that correct? SPEAKER: Correct, we consider them our main lines, those are still in place. Straight through to land all the way to Deberry, and there is another line or two out in the Daytona area. DAVID SANTIAGO: Not those old lines that used to be? SPEAKER: Not as many. DAVID SANTIAGO: Follow-up question to that. What are we doing with the bus stops that we are not using? SPEAKER: So we are going to be removing some bus stops. DAVID SANTIAGO: And there are some private companies have benches there, have they been notified? SPEAKER: We haven't gotten to that step yet. We want to make sure that the Voide is running properly. You want to make sure there is no chance of going back to a fixed route line in those areas. So we need a little bit more time. But yes we would work with each of the city's contractors that have advertising on the shelters, or bus benches, including our own, so yes, we will take those steps when we need to. DAVID SANTIAGO: Thank you, you do a good job at what you do. Thank you Mr. chair. DON DEMPSEY: Have you looked at the Uber prices for the same trip? SPEAKER: I talked to local Provider and a local trip would be anywhere between $10 and $14 depending on if it is in or out of town. DON DEMPSEY: Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman Santiago? DAVID SANTIAGO: Moved to approve. JEFFREY S BROWER: Motion to approve, is there a second? Second by Councilman Robbins and the motion is to approve the VoRide immediately and all others January 1? OK. David Santiago? OK. Councilman Don Dempsey. DON DEMPSEY: We are in discussion. As far as VoRide goes, I have been contacted by a local taxicab company and it is inevitable we will run them out of business. How can they compete charging $12-$14 for a cab ride when the government, who they pay taxes to come is only charging two dollars, three dollars, just like George said – when we offer these cut prices to veterinarian services. The private sector vets are having to compete with the government. Veterinary services are not a government function. Providing a cab is not a government function. It is a subsidized venture. I think – straight-line buses are one thing because they have been historically for decades. But as far as Services? And we are directly snuffing out Lyft, Uber and these private cab companies locally. It is income I voted against it, but at the very least we should be charging the exact same as the private sector so that we do not put them out of business. It is one thing to compete with them and is another thing to undercut their prices by potentially you know, twofold or threefold whatever. We are trying to create jobs – we were talking about how bad the fiscal cliff does and yet here we are using their own tax dollars to snuff them out. I am totally against this but we should be at least be charging the same if not more in the private sector. So I am a no on this. SPEAKER: I would like to address that if you don't mind! It is not always a door-to-door service. It is a door-to-door service for folks that absolutely need it and they have to request that special service. Otherwise, it is a walk to a block, sometimes maybe two. I hear complaints about that. **Audio lost** SPEAKER: Fee versus the (indiscernible). VIA is our contractor. SPEAKER: their private contract, just like the contractors that build our roads and do the work for us? They bid on it competitively. They bid on it themselves? SPEAKER: Correct. SPEAKER: I would also like to add that – because we have had a lot of conversations with the private taxicab services, because there is a segment within transit that we do have a taxi cab contract for. We encourage a lot of the people who have taxi services to actually bid on that because it fits more closely into their normal realm of business. Also it is the restricted hours. Where is a taxicab you can take, all the way up until the evening and I think one of the comments we got back was, your timeframe does not match with what our timeframe is. They do a lot of evening taxi rides and we shut down by that time on VoRide. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you, Councilman Johansson? JAKE JOHANSSON: This is more of a question? Do we or have we ever had a voucher system for taxis? Instead of seven dollars for VoRide? SPEAKER: I do know of some agencies in Florida that do supplement such rights, but instead, we have taxicab service on our contract and we can help people throughout service. JAKE JOHANSSON: In the limited research I have done, Mr. Don Dempsey, I think a voucher for over is cheaper than a bus, but more expensive right now then VoRide. So… Where do you draw the line? Do on the individual to pay more to get there to help Uber drivers? Or the private agencies in which via is one of. Or do we save the money and use VoRide? I see both working. We chose VoRide and VIA. But I understand your competition with private and like George said, VIA is private. I like the bouncer now. Because VoRide doesn't work all the time and Uber and taxi's go door to door. I come as a user, although to the concerned citizens out there – I don't use it because it is not for me. That is not what it's there for. I see it giving opportunity and choices for our folks. And the fact that we can give choices is good for me. And the fact that we can serve people that might not be able to afford door to door service, the ability to walk, catch the bus and head to Walmart or wherever they need to go. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman Don Dempsey? DON DEMPSEY: Is this covering itself? Or, is this going to be coming to counsel for subsidies? SPEAKER: All of our services are subsidized by government, federal, state dollars. DON DEMPSEY: OK. VoRide is not breaking even. It is losing money? It is like Sunray on wheels, basically. We are creating another form of transportation that the taxpayers are going to have to subsidize and keep subsidizing, just because we can give them a two dollar cab ride instead of a $12 private market. I guess to counter what George says, that is not – because we have people bid on this – that is not a free market. That is not capitalism. I mean, if we have every private business have to bid and work for the government, that is not free enterprise. That is not laissez-faire. That is not capitalism. It's not. We need Lyft, Uber and whoever else to be able to complete and offer a quality service for a cheaper price. How are they expected remotely to complete with us? The government is getting into another subsidized mode of transportation that will cost the taxpayers more and more money. I am against it. The last thing we should be doing is offering under bidding prices that will wipe out the private sector. This is terrible, guys. JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman Robbins? DANNY ROBINS: Don, I hear you. Is there a point in time they be in the coming months where we can review this to see what kind of economic impacts that this may have caused for secondary and third effects? How long have we been doing this so far? SPEAKER: We have been doing it since December. Almost 9 months. I would like to say that we implement in the service to eliminate some of our fixed costs that were costing us a lot more money to operate. So, we want just to provide service to those folks that needed it and this is a less expensive option for us to operate service. That was the whole – DANNY ROBINS: And I know there was a pretty good savings in there. But at the end of the day, I would be open to see – maybe we give it a year? Or at month nine? And let us look at it. The best thing we can do is to sit down and look at it and I may go your way because we can always come if there is deadbeat roots that just do not make sense to have, you cut and eliminate them. That is just it. But if this is having other effects to give your people an opportunity, if that is what they are saying, I most certainly want... **Audio lost** DANNY ROBINS: Is that something can go back on a few months? Come back to this thing? SPEAKER: We refuse all the time. I want to ramp size what Bobby said which was that this came as a result of you asking us to look at Votran and I cannot even say how may times I heard the complaint of giant empty buses, big giant empty buses. So, we went to a smaller vehicle which was, these are little vans. They are little minivans. They are much smaller vehicles and again, we competed and went out to accompany that bid on it and provides a service. So, we certainly will look at it and continue, actually? The idea – I think where they were going was also to look at the east side. We started this on the west side and we were looking at on the east. Keeping the backbone bus service, but it eliminates some of the routes as we just did this year on the west side and get rid of the big empty buses. DANNY ROBINS: I agree with you. I'm not singing to go one way or another. But I brought this forward I think it has been – SPEAKER: Like I said, part of the upcoming, we start again in January. We will be doing the budget all over again. It'll be a great time to review this. DANNY ROBINS: That is all I – SPEAKER: That will give us the 12 months to review this. DON DEMPSEY: I understand your problem is with the mainline buses being empty. But, the mainline buses and taxicab companies and Uber do not compete against each other directly. I think that is apples and oranges. VoRide, and Uber, those are apples to apples. Bus lines have been around for decades. Uber, Lyft, and this Company have only been around more recently. When they decided to capitalize their businesses in deciding to go down this line of work for their livelihood, they already knew going in that they were competing with bus lines. But now they are having to compete directly, directly house to location transportation – they are directly competing with them with an unfair competition. It is not fair to expect them to price point there stuff and they get down to $12? Let us say that is the cheapest. How can they compete with the government-subsidized program. That is me trying to open up the railroad. I'm can open up a railroad to go down to (unknown name) to Deland? How do I compete against something subsidized? That is really unfair. If we are going to compete with them, we should at least have the same rates as them. I don't think this is right. JEFFREY S BROWER: Here's my question, Don. Public transportation, is it a core government response ability? Is that what we are discussing here? And is it the same market, or are there two different markets? Are there people who will call Uber or Lyft because they can afford it because they do not want to ride with other people? They want to get somewhere faster, door-to-door? And is Votran and VoRide, is it a completely different market of people that just can't afford that? Older people, younger people that are getting to work or to the doctors appointment. Is it the same market? In the real question is, is it a core responsibility of county government to provide public transportation? Come on guys, we are directly competing with them. We are going to put them out of business. If I had to compete in my business with somebody charging you know, (Laughs), 1/3 or 1/6 of what I charge, I mean it's just a matter of time, and we will all be working for the government. There is a term for that when everybody works for the government. So we are supposed to be capitalists, we are supposed to have a free market. And that is why I think it's going too far. And I think the price point should at least the same rate as the competition. JEFFREY S BROWER: So it sounds usually agree that public transportation is a core government responsibility, you don't see this is that though? You think it's just direct? How much door-to-door do you do? And how much of that is handicap, special needs. SPEAKER: Probably 250,000 rights a year door-to-door service for paratransit. 250,000 rights a year. JEFFREY S BROWER: Wow. SPEAKER: You're talking about Vo Ride? It's not door-to-door, it's very small percentage of trips a week that Voride is providing for door-to-door, or wheelchair excessive needs. JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman Johansson? JAKE JOHANSSON: Of course, I'm not using it again, but I would hope that the general public and Volusia County doesn't abuse the privilege of VoRide by taking it because it's there. I would never after a cocktail or two say they have Vo Ride over here, let's take that and abuse that. It's only seven bucks. SPEAKER: It would have to be a daytime cocktail two. JAKE JOHANSSON: We have lunch in an hour and 15 minutes. So I'm hoping that people – like you don't want anything subsidized. That's a hope, that's the dream and government. But a good dream. I hope that people don't abuse VoRide. I'm going to take over, I'm going to take Lyft, I'm going to take a taxi. I know VoRide, exists, I would never consider taking it because I know there are people who need it. If I take it it's not available for them. So, and I have this distinct feeling that everybody save one may be that tests the system, I have a feeling that people who need it know about it. And the people that don't need it, either know about it and don't care, or don't care. Just like the bus. I know the bus exists, (indiscernible). SPEAKER: I judgment to share a quick thing. If you do the app, and you will ask to get a proposal for your trip. And a lot of times it's a proposal that is a proposal to use the bus. That shuts down the transit using the public and they are familiar with using the bus, but some folks don't want that transfer to the bus. And so if you are living outside of the bus zones, you can utilize this for a trip, much needed service, we don't have bus. But it will deter somebody if they see they have to transfer to the bus. JAKE JOHANSSON: in the big scheme of things I would like to get out of the subsidized everything business. It's a great dream to have and something we fight for. I believe that Voride, by the way is a step in the right direction. Because we are subsidizing big buses with nobody on them. Are one or two people on them and those people are using Vo Ride now. Instead of using a big bus and hiding the fact that we are not using a taxi, we are using a little VO Ride car and it is become more apparent. I think we need to continue on in this direction to work harder and we are doing this in every general fund. Area trying to decrease the subsidizing of people who are enjoying government ballots. So this is a good step, I like it. It makes – this makes us more competitive right now, with Uber and Lyft, and I am leaning toward supporting it. DAVID SANTIAGO: Point of order. I – if the chair can tell us what posture we are in right now? Are we in the big posture? JEFFREY S BROWER: That's what I was going to do before I call on Don, because I have been pretty generous with time. But Don you have been brief each time that you have spoken. And part of the time you spoke it's because I asked you a direct question. So I don't – we never really did move from questions to debate, you are up again, do you have a question? DON DEMPSEY: You seem to elude Jeff that this was cutting into paratransit. Which was around way before VoRide. So by me being against VoRide, is not ipso facto saying Donna's against paratransit. Because obviously handicapped, they need help on the government and I get that. But we are having problems with a lack of paratransit transportation, correct? And instead of using this, for paratransit, we are using it for other things. SPEAKER: That is actually the benefit of VoRide as well, some of them have moved to VoRide. If they didn't need door to door service all the time and they could walk to the curb and they need a quick ride to the grocery store, to the doctor. They have transferred to the service and said, because they don't have to call ahead, days ahead to schedule a paratransit trip like all of our paratransit writers do. They can get one within a few minutes. DON DEMPSEY: Secondly Jefferson, the chair was saying that – and Jake was saying he hopes that certain people will not abuse it. But this is not income related. Anybody – Bill Gates could come down here and take a VoRide, just like he could do Primo. Just wanted to make sure we were clear on that. JEFFREY S BROWER: I understand your point, I just want to make sure for me is public transportation a court response ability of local government? I think that it is. And I think the reason we have gone to VoRide, is because of what Jake has said. His counsel has given direction to cut costs, and to make it more efficient and VoRide has done that. I spent a lot of time outside recently and I see the big buses go by there isn't anybody on them. I mean nobody at peak hours and then I see a Voride go by and I see it has three people. So I think it's serving a purpose and it has reduced our cost which is what the policy that this Council said. So I understand your concern, Don, and I agree with you, I agree with Jake – I wish we could get rid of all subsidized you know, whether it is son rail, or – but it's a public service that has up until now anyway, been a core government responsibility. Councilman Reinhart? MATT REINHART: Thank you for bringing it up, the fact that we do lack and paratransit transport, with respect to trend gold, and that many of those paratransit individuals are choosing the right, not all of them can, because those Vo ride, vehicles are not set up for them. They are not designed for wheelchairs. And I knew the answer to that, but I didn't want to bring some clarity, for individuals that are listening, and also, those drivers for the paratransit buses, there is a different training set up for them, as well correct? SPEAKER: The paratransit drivers need to know how to strap down wheelchairs, and of course the assessed people to and from the door, to inform medical a pointman. I do want to clarify Vo Ride does have some accessible vehicles. They are smaller, if you get one person in there you have… MATT REINHART: You have eliminated it for someone else. I know we have a very large community in the E side as well. So just pointing that out for Claire. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Any other questions? Any other discussions, we have a motion on the floor to approve but right immediately, all others, January 1. I don't know where we are, so Chris I'm going to ask you to call the role. SPEAKER: Mr. Robbins? Mr. Santiago? Mr. Dempsey? SPEAKER: No SPEAKER: Mr. Reinhart, Mr. Brower? JEFFREY S BROWER: The motion carries five to one, good arguments. Don, it is indeed an area of concern. And it will be revisited next year. Item 12. To Volusia County consumer appointments, the health planning Council of Northeast Florida. SPEAKER: Two of the applicants, their term is up up on October 1. We've only received one applicant, Ms. Carrie Baird, and her operation is before you for reappointment. If we do give the second application, we will bring her back as well. JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman Reinhart? MATT REINHART: I would like to nominate Carrie Baird for appointments. JAKE JOHANSSON: Second. JEFFREY S BROWER: Met Reinhart -- Matt Reinhart nominate Carrie Baird, the second was by Jake Johansson. Discussions? All in favor say aye? Any opposed? Carrie is appointed and we hope to get another one soon. Item 13. One appointment to the housing finance Authority. SPEAKER: Correct, Mr. John Adams resigned in December, and we have one application of (indiscernible) for this board as well. (indiscernible) as a board member. JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman Johansson nominates Derek, what was the last name? Mears? And the second was by Councilman Santiago. Discussion, questions? All in favor say aye? And Derek is approved 6-0. SPEAKER: Next we have the appointments to the and Rockport. We only have 13 applicants for 14 positions. And there is a specific nominating order for this, where the chair will nominate first with the at-large member. Being second. And then we will go through the districts one through five and then we will reverse that 5 to 1 at-large in chair. JEFFREY S BROWER: Okay, we have a question from David Santiago? DAVID SANTIAGO: Thank you Mr. chair. Remind me when they expire? SPEAKER: I believe it is September 30. DAVID SANTIAGO: You knew I was going to call you up to this, that's why you smiled. Mr. chair if I can ask staff question? Can you give Cancel the update, we made a decision to narrow the scope of work that ENRAC was working on, and this was discussed, bringing the committee into a focus landing with some specific task. How far along are we on that? CLAY ERVIN: Pretty far, and just to reiterate, what we heard several months... **Audio lost** **Audio restored** CLAY ERVIN: Tag led a lot of the discussion and able to provide technical expertise to the group, we are looking at trying to wrap up some of the items left with wetland preservation. Ginger has been leading the discussion on the other items, if you have any specific questions. DAVID SANTIAGO: I don't want to put words in your mouth but I think I understood what you said. The focus, the narrow focus we put them on, has been accomplished, is that what you said? Now we are doing other stuff? CLAY ERVIN: Presentation by developing engineering on our storm water has been complete. DAVID SANTIAGO: Mr. Chair and councilmembers, there's a lot of debate of how long we want to continue on the board. I'm glad, it sounds like they have done the work we have focused on. CLAY ERVIN: I have to point out that tomorrow, Ginger just let me know, tomorrow is a final discussion, or working towards a final discussion on the low-impact handbook manual and going forward with the ordinance changes for that. DAVID SANTIAGO: I am reluctant to appoint because I think the intent of the Council at this time was to bring this Board into closure. I think we are there. I am prepared to let the terms expire until we need to reactivate them to anything specific. I say, "Mission accomplished." I will leave it there for now. JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman Robins? DANNY ROBINS: Thank you Chair. Mr. Irvin, so I understand where at, the focus is on adding regulations, or getting rid of regulations? CLAY ERVIN: It's improving, in all reality there situations where there is some antiquated requirements that need to be removed, things that could have been mandated by state or federal level identify issues that our staff is making changes to the code. DANNY ROBINS: The updates that are state and federal, is that something that we can do without the Board because it update them anyways? Do we need the board, if we are mandated to do them, do we need the board to say that we are mandated or is that something that we can do? CLAY ERVIN: ENRAC was created in the Council in 22, and there was a long, very detailed work list. If y'all feel that you don't want ENRAC to do that and want to take the planning and land development regulation commission, going to be a requirement. It was created by the Council to focus on the specific changes and concerns that were identified back in 2022. The issue that Mr. Santiago was, we heard loud and clear, he wanted us to stop we are doing at that time, pause it, look at stormwater, they have completed the review of the stormwater regulations and they're trying to pick back up and finish up low impact development, some of the changes made to the wetlands and tree preservation. DANNY ROBINS: Where did we land with the low development? To give recommendations? CLAY ERVIN: The direction from County Council was to come back to an ordinance, to be utilized as a voluntary option to traditional stormwater management requirements. DANNY ROBINS: OK, not a big deal. David, I see where you are going, if you have the compass a lot of the stuff, I can be open to what you are saying. MATT REINHART: My understanding, I don't know if I'm on board with that. The reason being is you just said that they stopped work on issues with respect to wetlands, trees, other things, in order to work on storm water so the other stuff to put on hold so they have not completed the mission or the task assigned to them, correct? CLAY ERVIN: There are some things... Again, I have to reference the list that was presented the sitting council. If y'all don't want the prior list to be addressed by ENRAC, and the work that they have done at this point, which is at this point, again, low impact velvet was a more priority, and then working through the tree preservation standards. DANNY ROBINS: All of that data put on hold. CLAY ERVIN: We got to the majority of it. DANNY ROBINS: If we did that, it would put more of a workload on PL RDC. CLAY ERVIN: All of the changes in the code would have to go through the planning and land development. JEFFREY S BROWER: Ginger, we are in mode, these expired this month? GINGER ADAIR: The terms expire this month. To finish up on the manual, code changes and that sort of thing. JEFFREY S BROWER: I don't think that is enough time? GINGER ADAIR: It is up to the committee to see if you want work on the original work plan. All the environmental minimum standards, treatment of them standards, wetlands, stormwater, we had low impact of element because we had the grant. Any of the other environmental minimum standards, if the council wants the committee to committee to review those, that is up to you. If you have changes that you are interested in. For instance, here's a change, our wetland code is 30 years old. It references mitigation in a way that we do not do medication anymore and we are not allowed to do it that way based on state law. The staff can certainly and bring forward changes for consideration to the PLRDC. It doesn't take a committee to come up with those things. The point of the committee, I think the Council created is to get input from all of the different sectors of the county. It's not the only way to do it. There still work to be done. It doesn't necessarily require a committee to do and that's a policy decision and we will do it however you all directed to do it. JEFFREY S BROWER: It has been a hard task for that committee. Their meetings are long, three or four hours, a piece. These are all people, professional people. I think it is really important, and helpful to get the advice and information from this committee. I would be more, I think it needs to continue. What I would say is, let the committee tell us when they think they are done, it could be in two meetings, it could be in six meetings, but I'm not in favor of abandoning it at this point. I have been waiting several years to have low impact development discussed and recommended, and we shut down because of state law interfering with that and now the state law is not there. I would like them to continue to discuss it. We have three people on the board, is this for questions? No? No questions? The question? Let's finish questions. JAKE JOHANSSON: Ginger, you have this great committee of professionals. If we did disband them, I would imagine they would keep their same phone numbers and you would have access to them to ask them questions or opinions? Professors, environmentalists? And there are people that I respect, environmentally, that don't have time to be on the committee but I imagine you chat with them, as well. How hard would that be for you, should we disband ENRAC? GINGER ADAIR: We have the contacts and when we propose a change to ordinances and policies, we talk to the community, we go to (unknown term) with something new, we go to the building. JAKE JOHANSSON: If we don't, they will be here on Tuesday. GINGER ADAIR: They will be here. JAKE JOHANSSON: I know those people will be here with us. I know there is wrap-up stuff in the meeting tomorrow, and should this happen it would be a shock to everybody, do you think that if you had to wrap-up you can wrap up all the loose ends by the end of the year? And January 1, go to, as I have tried with other committees, go to some ad hoc non-outside the structure of sunshine, so people can chat and be flexible and have meetings outside of sunshine where they can discuss things and bring them to you. Do you think you can do that by January 1? GINGER ADAIR: Certainly. JAKE JOHANSSON: That's all I have. JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman Robins, do you have a question? Are you ready for debate? DANNY ROBINS: Debate. JEFFREY S BROWER: I have one more question probably for Ginger. There is 14 members, 13 have reapplied. GINGER ADAIR: Yes sir. JEFFREY S BROWER: 13 are willing to reapply. GINGER ADAIR: if you appoint everybody does on your list today it would be to people that haven't been on the committee before and still would be one vacant seat. JEFFREY S BROWER: Who is a vacant seat? Who did not reapply? GINGER ADAIR: Two people chose not to reply. Alex (unknown name) and Suzanne Schreiber. Originally he was misstated as not applying, he is in fact not applying. KARISSA GREEN: Mr. Kent is not here today, he would not be appointing his two people which means one of the individuals from today would not get appointed and I would assume that Mr. Kent would have a vacancy, if one of you chose to, all of you chose to appoint somebody. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK. Perhaps we need to let them have their meeting tomorrow and bring this back to the next meeting so that we are all here. (Multiple speakers) JEFFREY S BROWER: We are missing another councilmember as well. I don't know if he is coming back. Does anybody know Don Dempsey had... He is coming back? OK. Somebody said they had a question. MATT REINHART: I did. He was here, now is gone. I am not a big advocate of kicking the can down the road. I also know that, you just brought up a good point about Mr. Ken and two assignments were from him. How much of an impact would be to address this at the next meeting when Mr. Ken is here? Plus, if we are talking, when this is first put on the agenda is about the reappointments. I see Prof. (unknown name) is here. But that's the only one from ENRAC that I see here, that if given the opportunity, they are aware that we may be disbanding the group, in all fairness to them, that they would be here. With the entertain the idea that we address this as a next meeting? JEFFREY S BROWER: We don't have a motion. MATT REINHART: I would like to make a motion to table this to the next meeting, if we are talking but doing this, because it was advertised as reappointments, not advertise as possible disbanding of this. JEFFREY S BROWER: We have a motion to table the to the next meeting so everybody can be here. Is there a second? No second? If there is no second, then the motion dies on the floor. I think it is a good motion. DAVID SANTIAGO: I am up next. I appreciate where your motion came from, from a good place and I respect it. I also have mixed feelings, not mixed, but I think we ought to get out of the business if a councilmember is missing that we do not act. Our direction, and our causes if we have a quorum we work. I don't think we should put off anything that we have to do, that doesn't mean we can't ask for it I get it. I stand against that premise of work. As far as the committee, and making a vote if people are not here. The Council is an open sunshine public business. I think I have expressed this opinion in the past, if the meeting is noticed and we are not violating any type of required notices of things. This is not an (indiscernible) or stuff like that. We are here to take care of a business. If something comes up, somebody makes a motion. If it is within our purview to make a decision, I think we should make decisions, and we live with those decisions. We don't govern by committee, we are the decision-makers. When it comes to ENRAC, I appreciate the work they've done, I think I, lamented them the last time we narrowed their focus to that. If I'm recalling the debate from the last time, it was really all over the place what I'm getting. I did not see any real success is coming from it. We chilled it to something that was a high priority, I think Mr Chairman you often said that flooding is one of our biggest priorities it sounds like the staff that they did the work. We don't need additional layers of government. Staff made it very clear we had the PLDRC, which is made up of professionals that we qualify and we employ them based on what they bring up to the table. There is a layer of public participation and guidance that is already mandated by statute. We have it, let's stop creating additional layers of government. Don, you made a compelling argument. He almost had me there, and this is another layer of government. There's a cost that comes, spending 3 or 4 hours in a meeting, there's payroll time, the prep time for that. We already have one layer let's not continue the additional layers. Jake, I think I would support your suggestion of letting them go to the end of the year. Wrap up any loose ends they have and submit their work. And thank you, if we need you again we will reengage you. At this particular time we have PLDRC, let's not keep creating layers of government guys. I came here to reduce the size of government, in a reasonable way. There's plenty of checks and balances. Mr Chair, I think the words you said you, "don't want to abandon low impact development." Neither do I, and I don't think this committee going away impacts low income development. **Audio lost** 31st 2024. JAKE JOHANSSON: Second. Johansson. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK, the motion is to table this, and to extend, I'm going to ask the attorney, To table the appointments. DAVID SANTIAGO: Table the appointments. JEFFREY S BROWER: December 31 of this year. Everybody extended their time of service. Can we do that? MICHAEL G DYER: Yes. JEFFREY S BROWER: Jake Johansson, you made a second? JAKE JOHANSSON: I did. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK, I know were done with questions. Councilman Robins and Councilman Johansson are still on. One more question for Ginger, did we get a report on flooding, his flooding solved? GINGER ADAIR: No, sir, what happened is development staff spent a couple of meetings. Because every meeting is to try and understand and develop. They made admonitions to try and understand some code changes, the staff is now taking those recommendations and going to bring forward actual language for consideration. So you have not had that report yet, because that was just at the last ENRAC Meeting. We've brought forward recommendations on low impact development, that is what we have brought forth and we will finish that up tomorrow. They have made significant progress on the tree removal issue, which was initially why the committee was established. If you recall, there's quite a bit uproar in the committee about trees. They have also gotten pretty far through (indiscernible) and ordinance. Those are things I think we can get to you by the end of this year. LID, storm water regulations, trees and wetlands. JEFFREY S BROWER: Good, thank you. Councilman Robins? DANNY ROBINS: Thank you Chair, I think you're on point. As long as we are reducing some of these layers of bureaucracy and not having as much overlap I think we are heading into a better direction. I think we have to remember we have higher standards. Just because it says "minimum standards" that doesn't mean minimal. We do have higher standards than a lot of state and federal regulations other. I think that is important. In 2022, just a little historical on it, some of the things Matt, that why we did switch gears because at one point we had about 80% of the Council had changed. As did the direction of the new Council to say "hey, we want less, less, less." That is a little history on that. I think Mr Johansen's recommendation of giving time to the first of the year is smart. Things could change, this is not necessarily done, things could change between now and when ordination comes up. I think now we have addressed some of the concerns or all the concern. And we just received confirmation that they will be done, thanks. JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman Dempsey? DON DEMPSEY: I want be clear were just talking about the board, were not voting out the board? JEFFREY S BROWER: Extending until December. DON DEMPSEY: When we were table and have this up for discussion again? JEFFREY S BROWER: I think the motion on the tables that by December 31 they'll go away. DON DEMPSEY: With no discussion, this is actually about to end again? Like I said before, I am against ending this because I think there is nothing more powerful than a volunteer who wants to get involved in his community. You know, we got some heavy hitters. Look at these applicants. Wendy Anderson, Bob Fitzsimmons, we got an architect, a farmer. We got a lawyer, civil engineers. We have got some pretty heavy hitters, and to just sit there and tell them, "we don't care what you guys have to say, we're going to do whatever we want." I'm not an engineer or builder or environmental expert like Ms Anderson. I think to sit there and not listen to what they have to say, I think there is the old saying "there is safety in the multitude of council". We need these people to maybe offer better ideas later on. To sit here and say, "we don't need you, were smart, will take care of it." I think is wrong. I think we need to give them a unified platform to be able to debate from and give us the report, the same way with the PLDRC. We have these other organizations. I think that what they do is important, and the fact that they are volunteering, I'm sure these guys have a full dance card and they got a lot of other stuff they could be doing. Probably that's more important to them family, business all that stuff. They are donating their time to help benefit the committee. I don't think we should be getting rid of these people at all. Need to keep them in place, and hear them out. I am a no for disbanding this. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you, you just saved me 5 minutes, and said that as well as it could be said. I completely agree, I would just add this. I don't think it is making us more efficient to get rid of this organization and giving it to staff, PLDRC. I think the information that we are getting from these professionals is really beneficial. Flooding and LID, low impact development are 2 of the most important things we face for a future. I don't think we're there yet. I appreciate the fact that they have all decided, except for one to re-up – that says a lot to me. So I am a hard no on it as well. Councilman Johansson? JAKE JOHANSSON: Again, I like to point out that we are not taking these people away from government. We are disbanding a organization that needs to meet once a month, and only once a month. Never to meet ad hoc, any other time, because they can't. They can't collaborate because they are under sunshine, and they can't talk. I know Doctor Anderson, and Suzanne Stryver and Melissa Lammers and the rest of the people don't get together except for once a month to discuss the issues about our county and the environment. That's correct, right? You do not meet? However, we wrap up in January and this committee goes away, then they can get together whenever they want. This elected body has a citizen who is not in the PLRDC, has nothing to do with economic development. Has nothing to do with growth management, and he emails us every day sometimes at 2 AM giving us his input on what he thinks is best for the community. I do not foresee any one of these environmental advocates shutting down their email, going home and planting flowers. They are going to keep on emailing us, they might be even more nimble and more I say in our knickers. But more able to engage us, to engage PLRDC, and to engage Ginger, and to engage each other because they are not part of Sunshine anymore. I believe that this is a very strong group of people, as well as the rest of the committees. I believe that after they get over the fact that we are getting rid of a committee, a formal committee that they are stronger. If they want to be. And the ENRAC folks by and large are very passionate. They are not ready to quit, and they may be stronger once they are not tied to Sunshine. So, I support this. I don't want them to have to go away, but I don't want to have to tie them up once a month for 4 hours to get it and if they don't have the passion they drop off, that's just how goes. JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman Santiago? DAVID SANTIAGO: Well said, well said Jake. In my statement I'm not trying to say that we don't need you anymore, these are very competent people and I'm very gracious of their contribution. At the same time, my job is to evaluate. We talk about the size of government, expenses stop you know, I'm going to quote Ronald Reagan again, this is my 3rd time since I've been here. "Nothing last longer in life than a government program." I think they have done their work and they continue to be more effective. Collaborating together, and we still have advisory group that is going to be later in there for us. We still have PLDRC, we have a professional stop and we have PLDRC is that additional layer. Under that premise, Don let's have another committee for every single committee we have. A subcommittee and a subcommittee because people want to volunteer. I'm being facetious a little bit but the kind of comes a time where let's keep reducing the size of government when we can. I think like Jake said, I think they will be able to collaborate better and we know many of those individuals are not scared to come up to this microphone and tell us what they think. They will still be involved. Thank you Mr C.hair. DANNY ROBINS: Clay, this might be a question for you. Who gives ENRAC, I shouldn't say direction, but their topics of discussion? Does that come from Council or staff recommendations? CLAY ERVIN: That is y'all. When we put this together there's a work program that was identified as part of the creation of the committee. DANNY ROBINS: Are you guys there more as, to explain it, or a steering committee? CLAY ERVIN: Ginger hit on the head, we provide on the existing regulations, we reference integrated or perhaps changes that need to be made, and identify change of the state and federal level and we put it with staff sees as the changes that need to be done to address some of the concerns. At that point, the members debate, going through the various sections of the code what should or should not be there, and if there is something that needs to be modified, how that should be modified. DANNY ROBINS: How is that different from the PLDRC? CLAY ERVIN: The Planning Land Development Regulation Commission is a state requirement from land planning agency. They have to review consistency for the comprehensive plan. And so, from that perspective, they are not necessarily, they are not currently engaged in the making of the sausage. They just see the end product and make a determination if it is consistent with the plan. DANNY ROBINS: But they can? CLAY ERVIN: If so directed, we can bring forward to them. The next planning land development. Planning. (Multiple speakers) CLAY ERVIN: Again, ENRAC is something, that the council, as discussion about, reference after the April 22, or April 2022 workshop, desire to look at the codes and to see what we can come up with the best codes available. There's a work program, y'all approved it. If you feel that you want to transfer that over to the planning and land development regulation commission, as part of the change, that is your prerogative. DANNY ROBINS: If we wanted to rotate people in some of the volunteer from ENRAC, we can also sign them into the PLDRC at some point, right? CLAY ERVIN: You have to look at how it's created in the membership. DANNY ROBINS: But we could eventually? CLAY ERVIN: As Ginger reference, before we bring anything to the Planning Land Development and Regular Commission, we send copies of the proposed changes to get feedback from environmental groups including the environmental coalition of Flagler, we also sent her to Volusia building industry Association and to (unknown term) they review what we send them and send us reviews. We are sending it out review, and many folks on ENRAC are participating in some of the organizations and some are not. Again, you may not sincerely get everybody's expertise currently on ENRAC, depending on the availability of feedback from the groups of interest. DANNY ROBINS: Thank you, Clay. To David's point, we just need about half a dozen outside groups and Boards and Committees and Subcommittees that essentially overlap and they all talk already. I want to make everything count. I feel like they have accomplished, what you have said, but I do think it's getting a little redundant. That's it. JEFFREY S BROWER: A couple quick questions. How many staff members are on ENRAC? Two of you and an attorney? GINGER ADAIR: The number of staff members there is depending on the topic. There typically always myself and at least one other environmental management employee, typically. There is three of us, we have two staff that are the admin support. We have to folks from IT that comes out of the mic and all that stuff, and we do have an attorney assigned to us. JEFFREY S BROWER: Once a month? GINGER ADAIR: Clay is there as much as his schedule allows. JEFFREY S BROWER: Once a month? What is the expense? GINGER ADAIR: Yes. It's a significant amount of staff time. The interest from the committee is interesting and it takes a lot of staff time because in addition to the time that we spend in the meeting, we have to prepare for the meeting, and that is really where the time is. As an example, one of the questions was, what to all the other counties do about tree replacement fees? We spent a significant amount of staff time researching every other county and what they do for tree replacement. It is not time wasted, by any means, it's interesting, and telling information. That is happening behind the scenes. There is a lot of staff investment in the committee, and the education and work of the committee. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. Clay, how often does the planning, PLRDC meet? CLAY ERVIN: Once a month. JEFFREY S BROWER: Do they not have enough to do? PLDRC is one of the busiest boards in the county. CLAY ERVIN: Yes, sir. JEFFREY S BROWER: If they take on this, do they fit it in their day? Or do they do another meeting? CLAY ERVIN: Again, we would have to see what happens. Doesn't mean they meet twice a month? Does it mean they go to five or 6 o'clock at night? Possibly. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK. Just want to get that out, and put it in perspective that these are volunteers and they have already re-upped to volunteer. We are not imposing on them. They may get together again. They may come up and talk to us as individuals. I think it is irreplaceable for them to be in the same room. There is an energy, and a synergy that comes from all of them being together. Hearing one another, changing each other's minds, from time to time. Agreeing on things. I just think it is extremely valuable information, and especially with dealing with some of the most pressing issues that we face in the County, the way that we develop and flooding. Danny, before I go to you, I want to ask, and remind the Council, through the attorney, there is only six of us here. So there is a possibility of a tie. If there is a tie vote, on this, then the motion... Fails? DANNY ROBINS: Yes, the motion would carry. JEFFREY S BROWER: I wanted to bring that to light. Councilman Robins? DANNY ROBINS: Thank you. I think it is important to recognize and stress too that, nothing is stopping the dynamic from happening. If anything, it is probably strengthening it. These folks, most of them, all communicate. They are all part of some of these groups and autobahns, which we get emails from regularly. If anything, gives them the ability to, like Mr Johansson said, operates out of the Sunshine. I want to be clear, nothing, by tabling the ENRAC board, it's not restricting anybody's communication and ability to project their opinions to this body. I want to be clear. I don't want to painting the picture, because that is far from the truth. JAKE JOHANSSON: Ginger, if they were to disappear on January 1, and wanted to get together but did not have a space, could you find a space for them to get together and collaborate? Thank you. GINGER ADAIR: Yes. JEFFREY S BROWER: We do have a m program finish would ember of the committee, Dr. Anderson, who would like to speak. Please do that now. SPEAKER: Thank you Chairman Brower and since I was invoked as one of the experts on the committee, I thought I should share thoughts. I was thrilled in March when you said, "We need this committee to focus on flooding." I had begging for a year and a half to get to flooding. In stormwater issues. In April we had to finish the work we were right in the middle of entrées, we did not quite finish it but we got into a pause, so we did trees in April. In May, Tadd Kasbeer and his team always learns slower than came and gave us our first educational program on stormwater, didn't finish, but Tyler Malmberg and Alex Zelinski (unknown name), civil engineers in environmental asked questions and sent to stop to bring back answers. In June, they were not ready. So they canceled the June meeting. We did not meet in June. In July, Tadd and team came back and educated us some more. We talk some more, in August we did not have a quorum. That is all has happened since you give us a charge to flooding. We've had two meetings on flooding which are educational. We have not started on policymaking and working on the language of the code. We have a lot more work to be done. Can we get it done by December? If we speeded up. We are important people doing important work others. As chairman Brower noted it's valuable to have us in the room at the same time, learning and collaborating. I have learned a lot from Bob Simmons, from (unknown name), (unknown name), from Jessica Gao, I have learned a lot. It would take twice as much time for PLDRC to get in there and do the work that we do. It has taken a long time, two years. I'm frustrating, nothing is slower, the only thing slower than higher education is government and it's frustrating. I want answer now. It's important work. I would love to come up here on every single development plan Jacobs Road, all the things that got postponed today and see what I have to say about those. I used to do a lot of those. It was a much better use of my time to be on a committee that can rewrite the code, that can actually change policies, not just fight each little development plan one at a time. That is why I am there. That is why you have seen less of me here, fighting individually. (bell chimes) I know I went over time. I want to say, it has been a really valuable process to me. We have more work to do to get work done. I don't know if we can get it done by December, but whether you reappoint or you do whatever, I ask you to let us continue our good work. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. Councilman Santiago, we have one more member of the public the want to hear from him? DAVID SANTIAGO: Yes, thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: John Nicholson. SPEAKER: John Nicholson, Daytona Beach side. I was disappointed when I heard two meetings. Flooding comes up everywhere I go. I am not affected by flooding because I am on a hill. The two streets behind me, they go 2 feet underground, underwater. It's at LPGA, all over my city. The idea that you have had two meetings and want to stop them now was beyond me because I don't think you knew there was only two meetings to discuss this. It is a very, very important issue. We are spending about $3 million to do a study in Daytona Beach. That is not even going to solve anything, it's going to let us know there is flooding, and these are possible ways to solve it. They don't have enough information, and we don't know how many meetings they will have until December. We don't know who would be available. To put this on the PLRDC would not make sense. They are one of our busiest groups and to add onto something. When I was teaching they decided in Tallahassee we did not need all of these courses. They were redundant. So, why did you need jazz orchestra or band or marching, when all you needed was just one course class? You get rid of all the others. Why did you need all of the sports? They wanted to eliminate five or six of the sports. They were going to eliminate 70 of our teachers, because they were not needed, part of education. Are you doing the same thing now to say that we don't need this, it's a level of government. It is a level that is not being discussed PLRDC, that would never be discussed, nor with these people get together and discuss them in the depth you are asking them to. They need government help to guide them into this issue, and you get the best and the brightest, and you learn from them. I think by disbanding it, you are eliminating the information you need to make your decision. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman Santiago? DAVID SANTIAGO: I know I'm a little bit out of order talking about this. And I will, so about, but from the comments understand this group to be advisory in concepts, methodologies. Not an actual drafting of language. I want to make sure that I get clarity of that. CLAY ERVIN: The way has been working out in the system, we have had them been looking at certain changes of codes, they have been making recommendations on the language and specificities of those issues. DAVID SANTIAGO: Thank you for clarifying that, I did not know that was the ... maybe that's my fault. I thought it would be more advisory from concept perspective. All compelling arguments, I still think we can get the work done as the motion stands. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman Robins? DANNY ROBINS: I still have one last thing to add. Guys, what is the number one issue when it comes to solving our flooding problems. Anybody want to take a poke? Besides less rain, it's money. How much money did we just get from transform 386? We just raised stormwater fees, we are getting ready to raise a whole bunch of other stuff. Don, you brought up a big point during 386, try to get another $50 million for stormwater did not ride, did not fly. Where were some of the people in this group fighting for, if stormwater was at a top-level concern. How come we did not hear more people wanting more funds for stormwater? I think there's other ways to skin this cat, and there's other groups that overlap to do this. JEFFREY S BROWER: I will tell you I was try to get more money for stormwater. I went to Donna and asked her how we get more money for stormwater and she came up with a lot more money so we could take it from here, through the transform 386 fund. I didn't let that lie. Our number, what is the cost of the flooding? You just related it to money. We just need money, I disagree with that. We need money, but the reason is because of the way we are developing. If we continue on, there's none of money that can come into this county to repair all the damage. This committee is extreme helpful in these areas to recommend policy, to us, to Clay. I just think it is a complete... We are not being responsible by telling them "Thank you for your service now disband before we get..." And yeah they can meet privately but we won't have the same energy and synergy as we do right now. They need to be allowed to continue their work. They can tell us when they're done, at least give them another year. Councilman Dempsey? DON DEMPSEY: Yeah, just being over here on the west side and hearing concerns. I am a pro property rights person as you know. I believe developers should be able to develop. There's got to be responsible development, I think we all say that in campaigning. Flooding is real, I mean it is. Places that I've gone to 30 years ago that were never flooded now are flooding. I don't, I haven't settled in on what the answer is. Danny you asked me the question, the cause of flooding. I really don't know, is it over development, is it the weather in general? Cycles of weather. I have no idea. I don't think the problem is fixed, I don't think there's a clear answer to these issues. I would love to know what the committee... I mean if you look down this list. This is not just... these people are all experts in their areas. I think we should be honored by the fact that the successful professionals are willing to give us their time. Time is money, and their willingness. I mean how much would be spent on a consulting firm, God knows we spend 50,000, hundred thousand for consulting firms. Here we got people probably warranting that same kind of money to give us advice, and they are doing it for free. And we are talking about money, how much do we spend for that study, I mean come on guys. We are getting a high quality consulting group willing to give us valid consultation advice for nothing. And we're going to sit there and talk about a couple hundred extra dollars in staff time. It's great that staff is forced to be there, because it forces them to show up and be educated by these experts. I think it is terrible to sit here and just not give them the forum to speak from. I don't know, how we even contacted Rodney Mills and the PLDRC and contacted them and asked them if they even want this extra burden? (Laughs) We may lose some volunteers from the PLDRC. Here are people wanting to do it and they are highly qualified. I think it is terrible to get rid of these guys I'm gonna stand by my no vote. DAVID SANTIAGO: Mr Chairman, he called question? JEFFREY S BROWER: OK, Councilman Robbins wanted to speak. If you want to ... DAVID SANTIAGO: Call a question. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK well, that's about as fair play as it will be. DAVID SANTIAGO: It's fair play because it's part of our rules. I just didn't like that comment, I'm playing within the rules. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK fine, you didn't like the comment. There's a whole bunch of comments you make that I don't like. I just let it go because that's how you are. DAVID SANTIAGO: Call me out, I'm within the rules. KARISSA GREEN: To table the reappointments and extend the appointment of the current board members until December 31. JEFFREY S BROWER: Yes. KARISSA GREEN: Mr Santiago, Mr Dempsey, Mr Reinhart MATT REINHART: No. KARISSA GREEN: Mr Brower? JEFFREY S BROWER: No, but it's a tie vote so it fails the committee will end December 31. KARISSA GREEN: No sir. MICHAEL G DYER: You're back in a situation of appointments? KARISSA GREEN: Correct. JAKE JOHANSSON: Moved to approve all appointments recommended for the board. JEFFREY S BROWER: For a term expiring when? JAKE JOHANSSON: It's as listed. I'm not going to get into that right now. It's a two-year term. KARISSA GREEN: Correct, there is a nomination method, so legal would have to advise if you can get rid of it. JAKE JOHANSSON: I make the motion that we go individually and get these nominations taking care of individually. That is a motion. KARISSA GREEN: They said we can go ahead. JEFFREY S BROWER: We have a motion in the second to do the nominations all in favor say Aye. Any opposed? I will start by nominating Wendy Anderson. MICHAEL G DYER: I know this is, for it's entirely up to council, you can vote once as a slate or... JAKE JOHANSSON: I made the motion to go individually. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK, and just for clarification Suzanne Shriver, Alex (unknown name) did not want to be ... KARISSA GREEN: Correct. Do we have a second for Mr Brower's? SPEAKER: Second. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK, any discussion on Doctor Anderson. All in favor say Aye. JAKE JOHANSSON: Mr Chairman I recommend Donna (unknown name) as my at-large rep. Understanding Karissa said if she gets elected to the school board she cannot participate? MICHAEL G DYER: What is the other board she is on? JAKE JOHANSSON: She may be on the school board in November. MICHAEL G DYER: It's not a dual office holding. JAKE JOHANSSON: Got it. MICHAEL G DYER: Clay, do you have anything when this was created that prohibited being a member of another board? JAKE JOHANSSON: Perfect. KARISSA GREEN: So we have a second for Mr Johansen's appointment? JEFFREY S BROWER: All in favor of Donna Browsemer say Aye. Any opposed? Donna is nominated. KARISSA GREEN: Can you clarify who was was the second? JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman Robbins.? Who is next on the rotation. KARISSA GREEN: Mr Dempsey is. JEFFREY S BROWER: We have a nomination of Bob Fitzsimmons, seconded by Jake Johansson, all in favor say Aye he is nominated. KARISSA GREEN: Mr Reinhart is next. MATT REINHART: I nominate Jessica Gao. JAKE JOHANSSON: Second, Johansson. DANNY ROBINS: Karissa, do I get one or 2. KARISSA GREEN: You will get a second one later on. DANNY ROBINS: I will nominate Bliss Jamison. JEFFREY S BROWER: All in favor of bliss Jamison say Aye. Any opposed? She's approved. KARISSA GREEN: The next person is going to be Mr Santiago DAVID SANTIAGO: Tom Burbank. JEFFREY S BROWER: All in favor of Tom Burbank say Aye. Any opposed? KARISSA GREEN: The next person is Saralee. JEFFREY S BROWER: Own favor of Saralee say Aye. Any opposed? KARISSA GREEN: The next person would be Mr Kent, but because he is not here is Mr Robbins. DANNY ROBINS: Melissa Lammers. JAKE JOHANSSON: Second Johansson. JEFFREY S BROWER: All in favor of Melissa Lammers say aye. She's approved 6 to zero KARISSA GREEN: Next councilman is Mr Reinhart MATT REINHART: Tyler (Name). Jeff mac he is approved 6 to 0. KARISSA GREEN: Next person is Mr Dempsey. DON DEMPSEY: Jessica Gao. Oh you have already done her. I'm sorry. KARISSA GREEN: Crewmembers have appointed our Miss Wendy Anderson, Donna (Name), Bliss Jamison, Tom Burbank, Samuel Morrissey, Melissa Lambros and Tyler (Name). DON DEMPSEY: (unknown name) JEFFREY S BROWER: All in favor of John Geronimo, say Aye. Any opposed? KARISSA GREEN: The next counselor would be member Johansson. JAKE JOHANSSON: I nominate John Hoblick. JEFFREY S BROWER: Matt Reinhart seconds John Hoblic. All in favor say Aye, any opposed? SPEAKER: Is there anyone left? KARISSA GREEN: Jack (Name) and Bill Lights **Audio lost** **Audio restored** KARISSA GREEN: Correct, you have Mr. Bill Light that can be appointed by Mr. Kent, and one vacancy. Both of the vacancies appointments this would be Mr. Kent's to make. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. Alright. Are we completed with item 14? You are satisfied? OK. Our last item. Do we have any public participation? KARISSA GREEN: Yes. I believe those are them. JEFFREY S BROWER: Pardon me? KARISSA GREEN: Carrie just give them to you. JEFFREY S BROWER: I thought it was the one that he just did. John Nicholson and you will be followed by Karen Clark. SPEAKER: John Nicholson, Daytona Beach side. I know I botched it earlier about the voting, but it was brought up and I find that the public, I mean, when people look at your meetings, it is generally, someone mentions to me, they had looked at it. They are from either the county, or from the city. It is not the general public at large. They don't know you guys from a hole in the wall, you are in a group somewhere, that group will know you but the other group will not. The totality of the county, all 500,000 or 600,000 people, knowing all of you, is virtually slim or none. Likewise, with my city, the same thing, people ask me, what is so-and-so like? I have attended over 5000 meetings over the years, I generally know after several meetings, what a person is like. I generally know whether they are conservative, liberal, if they have an agenda, someone is going to talk about the jail, I know who that is. Somebody's going to talk about is east or west side. When they asked me about their views, I know there are four people, I know three of them personally and what I knew of. I can generally say that the runoff would be Brower because he was Chair, has done nothing terribly wrong, get a number of votes. Second was backed by a number of wealthy people, connected people, he would be the second one, and, sure turns out that way. When it was said that I was not going to vote for who I'm going to vote for, actually I don't know who I'm going to vote for. The last three presidential elections, I don't know before I get into the booth. Both the presidential, not the Chairs, the booth, the presidential ones are both bad candidates. It is very hard to get good candidates to run. I think three of the candidates that ran for the Chair all good candidates. I may end up voting for Jeff, although I said he hasn't moved as fast as I would like him to be, I'm worried about his opponent, the change. You guys are working great together as a team. The other Councils have been over the last 40 years has never worked together this will. I would hate to change something that is working well. My other candidate would be for Matt, for the county, for my city... (bell chimes) SPEAKER: Or Karen for school board. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. Karen Clark. SPEAKER: Hello, everybody. I am here to say nice things. Number one, we want to thank the street crew that comes and takes care of the trees. Robert Peter set up in Glenwood, as you know we have very old trees. When anything gets called they are in an instance, and to take down what needs to be done and you would never know they are there so we've got to give them thumbs up. Same thing, we need more hills block view, because the cars and whatnot in the Glenwood area, which has hills and you cannot see the car in front of you. Again, somebody almost went, and I have a big truck. The guy behind me did not see it. Thank goodness he never hit me. He is still alive. Let me see. Clay, when you're going to the zoning department, the first two people you see is breezy and cat. They have to be cloned. They make everybody feel like they are important. I have seen other times when they did not and I went and called Clay and let him know. When there is a person that doesn't need to be around human beings, somebody that greets you. This weekend, we had cows, little teenage five of them, running on Grand Avenue, and I called 911 sherrifs office nonemergency. They knew whose cows they were, a mile and 1/2 away, and for some reason they walk in my backyard and we closed the gates on three of them but the deputy was in there. They had the lasso. It was four horses showed up with people, we heard you needed help with over here. There's a community of various background people coming to help round out five cows. Somebody loans one guy, who ended up being a rodeo man, during his younger and lighter weight people. He got the two cows and he got the community. With a cow trailer coming in. It was absolutely amazing, and that is why we want to keep the west side not housed up. Anyway, thank you. It is a pleasure to be still living here. I am here 30 years and most of you guys know me in the County. Thank you guys. That's it. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you very much. Thomas Rutledge? SPEAKER: Good afternoon thank you for your services to our community. I am Thomas Rutledge, 41124 (unknown name) Avenue, you have heard from you before regarding the severe erosion on the 4100 block of S. Atlantic Ave. and Wilbur. Since that time we have all had a chance to come to take a look at it. Mr Reinhart has been kind enough to come out and take a look, amongst others. Just to keep you up-to-date, Ponce Inlet, since all of the time they have had a chance to take a look at it and they have sent a letter to the Council via Matt and also the staff, the staff of the government here, that the County manager, and with the full unanimous vote they have the full weight of the Ponce Inlet government that wanted take a look at this to advance it to the level of an agenda item with a full debate. What I want to do for some of you who may not have been down there take a look yourself is my concern is mainly about the road and the aggressive erosion that would take place in a storm with a decent size surge. I want to go back because I forgot to say this when I walked up, I want to thank the County, and I have gratitude for re-upping the trap bags there. I don't think they would stand up to the debris that would puncture them and I don't think they will work but for now to prevent the further erosion of the high tide events, I'm thankful for that. I thank the staff and government here. Wanting to point out, that you may not be aware of, when the road goes, it is going to take several more houses. If the 60 feet of sand goes, it will take several more houses. Then one eats into the road, it will go to the west side of S. Atlantic Ave. on the block, and those people are not wealthy people. Let me break this down for a human interest story for you. The guy on the north end of the block is 95 years old, he is vibrant, he drives. If his house gets threatened, and he has got to go, he is probably not going to survive it. To the South there is for small apartment blocks, those are working for the people that pay the most in taxes, because of user fees, they have to look at their daughter and say that we have to leave the cat behind. The guy further south is a fixed income retiree, he is a regular guy and put his life savings into building his dream retirement home. His is definitely threatened. He has no way to affect this is all, except through his government is you guys, to help do something about it. What I'm asking is please let's elevate this to the next level. Let's back up our representative... (bell chimes) SPEAKER: And to talk about it. I'm not asking you to sell it just to get on the agenda for the future. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you. That takes us to closing comments of the County manager. GEORGE RECKTENWALD: I have nothing today. JEFFREY S BROWER: That takes us to the closing comment of the County Attorney. MICHAEL G DYER: No comments, thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: That takes us to Councilman Robins. DANNY ROBINS: Thank you, Chair. Nothing other than a couple comments I would like to just quickly address on a previous item. It was said that we need to change our development pattern and the way we are developing when it comes to what we do in unincorporated Volusia, but outside of the cities, staff did a great presentation a year or two ago that keep our development numbers and what we have done in unincorporated Volusia. What I would like to do, Chair, is get a bead on what we can do is people are noticing it in the community, of what we can get done and the ability that we can get it done and the speed we can get it done that. As a team, what would you, knowing what we know, about really the minimal development compared to the cities in unincorporated Volusia, at this point, right or we are at, we have addressed the LID standards. Other than that, what can you recommend so we can work better together to change our development standards or the way that we are developing, in unincorporated Volusia? Is that something you can direct us on? JEFFREY S BROWER: Yes. I would be glad to. Number one, as you mentioned, LID, with the ENRAC committee, what they did is say, you can do it if you want, not do it if you want. I think they need to go back and look at it, and it needs to be... DANNY ROBINS: Other than that. JEFFREY S BROWER: Well, you asked me. I'm giving you an answer. We need to have real implementation of LID, and that might require working with PLDRC and Clay's group and division, not stacking layer upon layer of regulation, to remove some to use some LID. We are not anywhere close to being finished with that yet. I think you just said, and I am paraphrasing, so correct me if I'm wrong, there's not much development in West Volusia? DANNY ROBINS: I did not say West Volusia, I said compared to the cities, we have to change the developing pattern. I will put this in a way that we can all understand. Other than products that have had prior developmental rights have been plotted or more final plot plans. Compared to the cities we haven't approved. I have been on the Council the same time you have been here. We have not approved much compared to the cities or change the comp plan, and that's a fact. I want to see how we can all better align and kind of, I shouldn't say change your thought process because I don't want to change you are, I'm trying to understand as a team and a team member when we get told that we need to change the develop plan, what would you like to see other than LID which we've addressed? JEFFREY S BROWER: We have not addressed it so I like to address it. When John Booker came to me last week and said, what you want to put on the agenda for the legislative? I don't think this requires legislative action, but I would like to see this Council set a requirement for a super majority to change the comp plan, or to change zoning because that is the issue. We are very cognizant of the property rights that a somebody who buys land for development has, and we are not very cognizant of the property rights of everybody that is around it who gets flooded from the development that happens. The thing that we can, so those are two more. The other thing we can do that would have the most impact, we approve more studies for the different flood zones in the county. We need to complete the studies of all of the different districts, for flooding, and come up with required stormwater plan for each of those and we can also can affect the cities quite a bit, according to the County Charter, in the minimum, minimal standards that are required. I think we need to go back and look at all of those. Minimal standards, you know I have kids. I don't want to teach my kids just the minimum or the minimal standards in living life and treating other people. I want them to do the very best. We need to do the same in our cities, we continue to wash our hands of it and say we can't affect the city. We can! We have the tools to do that, so that is probably where we could have the most and greatest effect. DANNY ROBINS: Chairman, with all due respect, it makes it seem by those statements and given information, factual information that we have that this council is not doing some of that stuff. If those are concerns, then why, your teammates getting blamed for it, why hasn't some of those stuff come up. At the end of the day, as property owners will have those same rights. And I don't think it's 100% on the up and up. We have heard a lot of none of this, and we have minimum standards in Volusia County, or with the Volusia County Council and our standards minimum, minimum standards not minimal. No it's not the same thing chair, our minimum standards and probably 9/10 cases are above state and federal requirements. Minimal is you are doing minuscule, you're doing minimal, you're giving minimal energy towards something. If we actually sat down and looked at this, and we have both been doing this the same amount of time. There is 2 different definitions of that word, and we have to start being a little bit more careful. I just want us to work better together, I didn't hear any issues, I heard some new issues but I just don't want us to get down as a team. If we are doing something wrong, I think we are all old enough that we can take that constructive criticism. I think you for doing something right, it's best for the team to also say we are doing something right. JEFFREY S BROWER: Since you asked me, I will just end it with this. I am not blaming this Council but I've spoken ad nauseum for 4 years about the issues in developing, we may have minimum standards but they are not working. We are flooding from one end of the county to the other. The ENRAC committee has told us that. What we are doing is not working. We have to look… Even the chair of the PLDRC said I'm not voting on any other development until we solve flooding issues. There is a problem and we need to address it. The ENRAC committee is a great way address it. I'm going to bring up, in my time, two issues on flooding that we can deal with. And continue to do it. DANNY ROBINS: I get that chair, and I'm not going to be redundant on it here but flooding issues have existed since the beginning of time. We need money for a lot of this stuff, hold on a sec and now, OK. But also, we have to come to the realization and be 100% truthful that with the public, that compared to the cities. We have to change our development patterns, and what patterns can we change in unincorporated Volusia that we can change now. JEFFREY S BROWER: I'm glad you have asked that, because they've not had the same flooding since beginning of time. We are flooding out entire neighborhoods because of the way we are developing now. We go in and drained wetlands, thousands of cubic yards of fill and lift up a new neighborhood 5 feet higher than everybody around us. Paved over, plant the houses. The first rain comes and all that water is dispersed downhill to the neighborhoods around at the never flooded before. I just went to Mainland Senior High School and met with the school board, and all the neighbors around there. When they rebuilt Mainland Senior High School and they lifted the ground-level up they put a storm order retention pon with a few feet of fill dirt between his huge pond and a neighborhood and it overflows. It goes right through the wall, and it floods the neighborhood. It has destroyed houses. The school board came and met with them thankfully they did a great job, they hired an engineer and they said, "we don't accept any responsibility but we are going to solve this problem for you". So, they are spending well over $1 million to move this retention pond so that it has instead of a few feet of wall space where the water just pushes right through the sand, it will have 60- 80 feet. That is the kind of thing that needs to be done. The school board stepped up and was doing it. I applaud them for that. DANNY ROBINS: Chairman, I'm not disagreeing with some of the stuff that you are saying. When you are staying has to do with state building requirements and its federal FEMA planning requirements. A lot of this is out of our purview. What does this Council do? We are following the legal guidelines were given by legal, and federal and state agencies. What can we do better together to get through some of these catchall statements that are simply not 100%? That is all I'm saying. We need to drill down on it, I did not hear a specific answer. I heard general statements, I want to know how we can work better with actual policy and not just talk. That's all. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK, well what I just offered to you was not just talk. Every member can do that, they can go just like I did. I am countywide, I went to Mainland Senior High School because **Audio lost** **Audio restored** And asked the city to rectify that, it ain't going to happen. So they corrected it themselves. That is a kind of productive work we need. Go out, look at the flooding issues, find out what is causing it and do something about it. DANNY ROBINS: Once again chairman I will put this to bed. I am not disagreeing with you on some of the (indiscernible)'s within the cities. But, as a council, what can we do for the 4th time in unincorporated Volusia JEFFREY S BROWER: I just told you. DANNY ROBINS: When you say we need to change our develop meant patterns, what can we do to change our develop and patterns in unincorporated Volusia, we have minimum development, and the develop meant that we have approved has either been preapproved, a final plot plan. Or is something that they have the right to do. How can we, in unincorporated Volusia. It's something to think about you don't have to answer now I know it's tough. How can we do better. JEFFREY S BROWER: I gave you a whole list of answers Danny, you don't want to listen to any of them. I just told you we need to do the flooding studies are required and come up with the storm water control plans. I have brought that up, we voted on it, we are adding a couple more. I think we need to do them all. The ones, the areas that are still flooding like at the chairman of the PLDRCs house and the surrounding neighborhood. We need to drill down on that, and find out what we can do, what's happening. A lot of that is affected by the city of DeLand, we need to stop saying that we can't do anything about this because it is the city of DeLand and go to them and work with them just like I did with the school board and solve the problem. DAVID SANTIAGO: Mr Chairman, can I chime in on this? JEFFREY S BROWER: You can. DAVID SANTIAGO: I think what Danny is trying to get to is that scenario on the school thing in Daytona we don't have jurisdiction. JEFFREY S BROWER: I did it anyways. DAVID SANTIAGO: I'm not saying you can't do it, I will never say that. What I'm saying is we don't have jurisdiction from a policy making perspective. I think that's what Danny is trying to get to, we are policymakers. We make policy that affects the county, and when it comes to development. The environmental standards that we have in our charter do give us additional powers and influence over things that occur in the city. I will acknowledge that, I think we should look at those. I think, I will speak for myself the impression that comes across in the public is that this is all County's fault. When we have any one of our members of our bodies our council acknowledging that. Maybe not specifically with those words, it falls in our shoulders in cases that don't have anything to do us. I think that is where Danny was going, and that's how I interpret it. I'm done with the topic. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK good. Councilman Dempsey? DON DEMPSEY: I wish I could tell you what the problem is. Almost 2 years into it, I still don't know what the problem with flooding is. There is a flooding problem, I don't know the answers. All I can do is were you on a stack of Bibles, on Martin Luther King I used to ride all through those woods 30 years ago and there was all high and dry never flooding. Now you go pre-hurricane, post hurricane your standing in water all the time. Then you got the lady from the last meeting, she came in and showed the videos of her house in Daytona Park state flooded. Flooding is a real issue. I do know how to fix it, I don't know if this lays with the county, with the city. I do know, why was told that 30 years ago, 30- 40 years ago with the county's 700,000 acres, I was told that cities were made up of 100,000 of that, and now it's doubled. Now there is 200,000 acres of municipal, and only 500 of county. The cities are annexing in like crazy, and the perception is that we can't stop them. Jeff, the only reason I'm even talking right now is because you piqued my curiosity when you said "there are steps that we can do to either sanction the cities or control the cities better" because if there's anything that we can do to the cities, I still see this as more of the cities allowing too much development. All MLK was the city of DeLand. They have created a lot of perception that they create the problem through this subdivision annexation. Is there a way staff could give us a briefing on what our options are to do with the cities, to how we can strong-arm these cities to be more responsible in their developments. I do see the flooding coming up, I've got a lot of input from Jacob's during this project right now. There's a lot of people that don't want it and think it is going to add to the flooding. I know if it will or not, I want to add these developments. But I am concerned about the flooding, and if there's anything we can do to stop these cities and just annexing in, and then all of a sudden there's nothing we can do. If there's something we can do, I like to know what that is. That's all. JEFFREY S BROWER: And to just very quickly answer your question. Yes we can, in fact at the next meeting I'm going to put it on the agenda that I have worked for several months with some people. Just residents that are experiencing severe flooding and we have gone through the charter. Looked at different things, I am going to discuss it with Michael Dyer, and bring it to the Council at the next meeting so that we can all discuss it and see what we can do. Honestly, I have avoided, I hate the state telling us what we have to do. Taking our own local control away. So, I've avoided doing that to our own cities, saying that we are going to override you on this. We need to discuss it, we need to say this is within our legal parameters, this is our responsibility. So how do we handle that, hopefully getting the cities on the same side of the table with us and discussing it with us. Not **Audio lost** **Audio restored** JEFFREY S BROWER: Forcing them. SPEAKER: You will be glad to know that I do. JEFFREY S BROWER: He had his crack at it, Councilman Robins, now we go to Councilman Santiago. DAVID SANTIAGO: One thing that was disturbing to me when information was shared, I want to make sure I understand it correctly. The chairman of our PLDRC board has made a public statement that he is not going to vote for any development project. Can you clarify that? I think you made the statement. JEFFREY S BROWER: I did say that. It is pretty close to a quote, he wasn't going to vote for anymore development until we solve our flooding problems. Who sits in the PLDRC? Nobody here? (Multiple speakers) JEFFREY S BROWER: Ronnie Mills can chime in. DAVID SANTIAGO: I don't need him for to chime in. People that come before the board have rights. If the chairman is making a public same like that, I would ask the Council to ask them to reevaluate that or determine whether or not he can serve in that capacity. We cannot have people that represent us, and they have a fiduciary responsibility also to apply the state law. I'm not telling him how to vote, but he said the public he, that is wrong and he should not do that. JEFFREY S BROWER: I think it is... We will let him respond but I think it is in our notes from last week. DAVID SANTIAGO: I did not see it. DON DEMPSEY: I am reading the transcript from the PLDRC meeting on the sixth. I don't think he said that. DAVID SANTIAGO: He didn't say that? The transcript may not have it. DON DEMPSEY: Not in the transcript. DAVID SANTIAGO: If staff can get us exactly what he said, and during the meeting, or a committee and we will address it in. MICHAEL G DYER: We have talked but this individually there's a difference between conference of plan and rezoning. Rezoning is quasijudicial. DAVID SANTIAGO: Rezoning is quasijudicial and have rights. MICHAEL G DYER: Yes, so having a blanket statement, that would be problematic. Accomplice amendment is a legislative decision from the counts on you have the greatest discussion when it becomes the comp plan. Based on the filament. We can look into see what was said. JEFFREY S BROWER: We can track the transcript from the 50 townhouses? (Multiple speakers) DAVID SANTIAGO: I will let staff tell us what in what context and we need to determine from there. I agree, policy comp plan is policy, other stuff is procedural. Thank you, Mr. Chair. On that part. Mr. Chair, I did comment back today after I made my point of order, I called a question. We had a little back-and-forth and I stopped. I think it is important to discuss it, in the professional standard. I think you made the comment that talk about fairness, something along those lines, when I called for the question. I was bothered by it then because by making that statement, the point is saying I'm not being fair in the context you said it. I have replied that I am playing within the rules, use the word. We have rules that govern how we do business and I used a procedure that is available to anyone else at any time, anyone can call it I can vote with you or not. I do not preach at the comment because if I don't respond to it, just put yourself out there. And see it. The chairman is saying what David just did right now it's not fair. Yes it is. It is within the rules that we have all agreed to operate under. I think you replied that I have said stuff, and then I said to call me out. I appreciate that. If I procedurally or say or do something that is within proper... I don't have a problem with that, I self called out when I was taking the third bite of the apple as we described. Several of us took the third bite of the apple. That is my other comment on here. I think we need to go back again and readdress and refresh everyone on parliamentary procedures and how we are going to operate because we were asking questions, debating, asking questions, debating, and then continue to ask questions. It seemed all over the place. The reason I think we should have more structure behind it is because, I will speak for myself, when I asked my questions, I ask it a methodology that I think I know I'm going to be shut down at this point. I prepare myself in the process for it. But if we are going to be free and open I will prepare for that or we are going to have structure, let's relook at it. One other question I had. Can staff, the 92 Beach thing, can we get some – I was concerned about this business ownership. I genuinely feel bad for them if what they are saying is true. Can we get some information on that? Or, if we can relook at it, to make sure that we are allowing for these businesses to have some type of successful business? GEORGE RECKTENWALD: We have given them access. I don't think, at any point, did we ever say that there would be, a lane would be open. I don't believe that part happened. We are look at the pedestrian traffic that we can allow in through there. As we discussed, I think in a previous meeting, if we were to go in an area, or kept part open and not open, you are just prolonging how long you are going to be there. I think the goal here is to get this ramp so that there would be access to there by February. As we now go into the end, to the peak or end of the season, would have been this weekend, things are really kind of slowing down from that point. DAVID SANTIAGO: He said we are behind the project, is that true? GEORGE RECKTENWALD: I don't think we are behind. (Multiple speakers) GEORGE RECKTENWALD: The other thing brought up was about the light and the operation of the light. Now you're into Department of transportation project, that is their control, and (unknown name) is the contractor, and also the Department of Transportation uses. They are basically as the contractor, they are controlling the light. We can talk to the department and see if there's anything we can do. They can talk to (unknown name). It is always unfortunate, that is why we try to do these things as fast as possible, because we know that there is going to be a business affected in these urban areas. JEFFREY S BROWER: Would you like a quick response to your questions to me? I don't want to make a big deal out of it. I think it deserves a question. Call the question. I do think it is unfair. It might be one of the rules, but one of the things that I try to do for everybody that sits up here is give each of you an opportunity to speak when you want to speak. When I see people's names that want to speak, and someone says call the question, to me it says I don't want to hear from that. I think we should have more respect for one another. DAVID SANTIAGO: I will respond to your response. You are right, to you it may feel like it but we are using the rules we adopted. If you want to change the rules, let's propose that. It's not that I will don't want to hear from them, if you realize when I called that question, it fell exactly what you said was going to happen. 15 minutes prior to that, it was 3 to 3. We are beating a dead horse, Mr. Chair. Since were talking about it, I hope that as the Chair, you can rein us in. I don't have a problem with this, professionally. If we are going on too long, gentlemen, we are saying the same thing, can we come in land the ship? That is what I would expect of the chair to help move forward. That's what happened and that is why called the question and it fell exactly how you predicted, 20 mins before. JEFFREY S BROWER: I try to treat everybody with respect to whenever say you're beating a dead horse. Come into the first question, maybe we need to do another workshop on Roberts rules of order. I understand, well. Often, and today was one of them, we were having a pretty spirited debate. There were questions. I think everyone of us ask questions, debate was over, asking questions. It was on the ENRAC. I just give you leeway, because of the respect that I have for that Council. And for my job, I allow everybody to speak. If this board want me to apply the rule heavy-handed, I will be glad to do that. At your request. We will have questions, now we are in debate. Usually, somebody like Jake will call me out, and then I will say, "OK, we will go back to the rules." I give everybody an opportunity to speak. Michael Dyer? MICHAEL G DYER: It is Council's measure, we are bringing back the chairman on Robert's Rule shortly. If you like me to schedule that, let me know. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK. Councilman Dempsey? DON DEMPSEY: I'm going to follow up, I think the way you handled it today, Jeff, was fine. Do not like the attitude given to the chair. David, with all due respect, you said, "This is my third time up, I know I am breaking the rules, I'm going to break the rule anyway." You got to get the chair flexibility. The way the conversation unfolded, it required more input. I don't think the time was wasted, it was productive, you are at your third comment which was out of bounds, and productive. I'm glad I got to hear it. I think things are fine the way they are. I don't really want anyone to get chastised for that. We disagree on stuff, I'm the losing voter on things like stuff today, I don't think he did anything wrong. I like to encourage discretion. (Laughs) you can yell at me, I don't care. JEFFREY S BROWER: Alright. I understand what was said, and thank you for that, Don. Anyway, Councilman Johansson? JAKE JOHANSSON: A few things. Last meeting, I believe, in the Consent Agenda we approved an increase in funding for team Volusia for over$250-$300,000 per year. I value what team Volusia does, since I got here in 2015 there's always a movement to get them past 50% public funding. They are at 53 right now, with every kicking in more money. I briefly talked to the Chair of the Team Volusia Economic Development Corporation, and I briefly talked to George. I would like the Council's support moving them to a number we can all agree to within five years. I would like to see 70% private, 30% public. We already provide a lot of staff and a lot of staff work towards economic development and as to the cities, and in addition we are writing a check. I would love to have us consider and I can make a motion that we work with team Volusia. Do we have an elected member, George? Or you on the executive committee? GEORGE RECKTENWALD: I am on the executive. But if there is... (Multiple speakers) JAKE JOHANSSON: We do have elected? George from the executive committee, whoever our elected rep is, work with xTeam Volusia to try to get something other than teetering at 50% just so they can come to us and say that we are above 50%, give us more money. I would like that put back on the agenda so Team Volusia can come and explain the situation, at that point, we can make that motion to come up with a percentage. Somewhere above 53%. You'll see, I will have a conversation with Suzanne here hopefully in the next few weeks after we can find some time. We got an email from Suzanne a couple of days ago, with all of the organizations and all the money we have, how much is match. What I want to understand is, back to Mr Dempsey's subsidy things. I know a lot of things are funded by federal and state grants. I'm not saying that is passed through money, but people can capitalize on that with matching dollars. I understand a lot of things that nonprofits do, that we find our, they are almost like subcontractors of ours. They are things that we don't want to do as a government, but we think are important. There's cultural arts out there, there's plenty of things out there, SMA does a lot for us. I want to take a healthy look at that to make sure that we are giving the right amount of money. We've talked about this before. The right amount of money, to the right people, for the right reason to go back to those things. Those core responsibilities of government. I think a certain I think all of it is important, but I don't want to do is spread a dollar to 5 different people whp are working on one issue. For example baby drownings, just because I've heard about that that's not one thing I'm concerned about but if there's 5 organizations that are doing it. We can narrow that down to 3, and concentrate the efforts geographically or whatever it takes, and I think we owe it to our taxpayers do that. I'm hoping to sit down with Suzanne in the next few weeks to look at that, and I will come up with some comments later. We talk a lot about property rights, here in the county, here in these seats. We have to realize something, with property rights come property responsibilities, right? We are always teetering between legal, what we can do legally and what is right to do. Well, I got a legal right to do that something to do that, and then what is right to do. I want people to understand that what is right to do, usually works out for everybody. You saw Mr Watts going back to talk to the neighbors. I personally think that ought to be something that they ought to just do all the time. Normally, they do. I know that happens in the cities a lot. When you chat with your neighbors, and find out what their concerns are, you realize that they are much more amendable to letting you be their neighbors. Individually, we hear stories about people that think they have rights but don't take care of their responsibilities. We are in an insurance problem right now, because people, if you have a 22-year-old roof what do you do in June, do you put he new roof on? no heck no. You hope a hurricane comes and your insurance company pays for. When in fact, you needed a damn roof before but now you got the insurance company to pay for it. We have a responsibility to fix our stuff, not responsibility to wait for an insurance company to pay for 22-year-old roof, and guess what? If you can't afford it, maybe you're in the wrong house. People wait for hurricanes, I think that puts us in the insurance spot we are in. People cannot afford the property protection, and come to the county for help, or cities for help. Now, there's certain things that we need to do to protect them from our own infrastructure, but I think it is important that property owners pay attention. Lastly, we talked a lot about the ENRAC and the LID and putting requirements on people. Whether we like it or not, we are having a problem with the balance between, the cost and where people live. Adding that regulation then there comes cost. Then you will have that argument over "well, my kid can't afford a house." By the way we have some that occasionally looks at realtor or Zillow and says, "I see a house here for $300,000." I think it is time that some people consider not living in a two-bedroom house alone, picking up a roommate. If you have 2 people that are making $50,000 a year, you can probably afford a 380,000- $350,000 house. There are some of those, a lot of those in Volusia County right now. It might not be where you want to live, but I will ask most of you here. Did anybody live when they moved out of their parents house where they wanted to live their first year? I lived in an open bay barracks, and then on a ship. It was not my idea of fun, but I'm much happier now. Some things to think about moving forward. By in large, I am still sticking with the last government property rights kind of guy. Thank you chair. JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman, I think I heard at the beginning of that that you wanted make a motion to... JAKE JOHANSSON: I did want to make a motion to put Team Volusia's, our contribution to Team Volusia and where we go from there on the agenda. Then to have a discussion of the folks in Team Volusia. JEFFREY S BROWER: And Matt Reinhart makes at second, any discussions, questions, all in favor say Aye, any opposed? JAKE JOHANSSON: Administrative note, that can happen in January, as we head up the budget discussions. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK, staff will handle that. They are already on it. OK, that exist to Matt Reinhart. MATT REINHART: The future, a few things actually, and no mention of the jail, gentlemen (Laughs). SPEAKER: You just did. MATT REINHART: In all fairness, John did it first. The first thing to expand on Mr Johansson, on your comments. I will admit I was the reason for that, that paperwork coming from Suzanne with respect to the nonprofits. It was brought up at a town meeting that the County of Volusia has separated any ties with nonprofits, which could not be further from the truth. Just in the last 2 years as you've all seen in that document, and I sent that information to those individuals, out of the general fund was over $50 million. An out of grant funding was $4.3 million. That is just in the last 2 years this Council has been sitting, that cannot be more further than the truth. So hopefully the individuals that did not get that information will read it. In reference to Daytona Beach Shores, with the ordinant I will bring it up, just for the individuals in the Shores here there was some question about the ordinance that we have been discussing for some time where I made the motion about at least waiting on that ordinance approval until after the same replenishment program is taking care of. We are bringing that to future meeting, hopefully civilly the individuals in the Shores do hear that. We are working on that. I think Mr Santiago asked the question that I already had on here as to the ISB Ramp, I've spoken to a business owner this week and that has moved out and separated all ties in that area. Then we are hearing from the two gentlemen that were here today. It is true, and I've tried to talk to them in my updates with individuals in that area. In order to do one lane at a time would prolong that issue. There is an immense amount of info structure to my understanding from Mr Bartlett that would have to be addressed. I can't believe that the piping and storm water and all of those issues that are associated with that one ramp in its self. It makes sense to do it now unfortunately. It did negatively impact some of those business owners. Then the question was asked, I had written down here that if that work was subcontracted, and it's written down here that it is subcontracted. GEORGE RECKTENWALD: Sure, all of our major construction is. MATT REINHART: OK, there was another issue brought up about the McDonald land, young lady said earlier about it coming up on the 13th. Meeting on the 13th it will be on the forever meeting which is a Friday if I'm not mistaken. Is that when the next Volusia Forever meeting is being held, will that item be discussed? GEORGE RECKTENWALD: Today you guys approved list, now goes into another whole phase of negotiation. It could be years. MATT REINHART: My question is she referred to the 9/13 date. Is that an incorrect date? Alright, just wanted to clarify. The last item the 4100 block S Atlantic Ave, I'm glad Mr Rutledge is here today. I toured that area and I know you did as well chairman. There is a "oh wow" factor. Quite a bit of land disappeared. I did receive a letter from Ponce Inlet, asking for their title town support for coastal armoring. I have spoken to staff in great detail of what that would require. My question to this deus is whether or not we want to entertain that for a future meeting to discuss it further. What can we do? That gives staff the chance, everybody not just the Chair and myself but everybody the opportunity to hear in detail what it would require in order to do what is needed. What we can do, and what we can't do. I would like to make that motion, to bring that back to a future meeting. JEFFREY S BROWER: We have the motion to bring the 4100 block back for a future meeting. Motion by Matt Reinhart. Second by, was that Councilman Robbins? Since Troy is not here I will save it's important to you, it's important to me and the rest of the Council I think if it is your district. MATT REINHART: Yes it is, yes it is. JEFFREY S BROWER: I think that would be productive. MATT REINHART: I'm not saying what we can do, but at least that starts the discussion of having that conversation. JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman Johansson? JAKE JOHANSSON: I've got a quick question for George. George, is this the one? Is this the only place we have this issue or are we opening up ... not to say it's not worthy. GEORGE RECKTENWALD: We will try for this discussion if we have proper time, we will put together a map showing everywhere for you all. JAKE JOHANSSON: I think it's important that we look at all of the places where there is a danger, or some type of issue that somebody is concerned about, where things are going to go where houses are going to go in. Back to property response buddies, but ... SPEAKER: Good point, thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK we've got a motion and a second all in favor to bringing the topic back to the Council. Please say Aye, any opposed. That brings it 6 – zero. MATT REINHART: Does this letter and to be scanned to me, or was it Artie done. George, do you know? GEORGE RECKTENWALD: Yeah. MATT REINHART: That's all I have, thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: That was significant from the mayor, when they asked for help. I'm glad you responded. Famous last words, I will be brief. (Laughs) I'm going to try and be brief. Rather than just put this on the agenda, as chair, I wanted to bring it up to the Council to see what your feelings might be on it. I would like to bring back for discussion, we have done various things to try and increase the attendance here. We have done nighttime meetings. I'm not sure that it does work. I'm not sure that we are getting a lot of other people at night, especially when we go to the night. By 8 PM the room is empty except for Al and the news Journal and Jon, who would sometimes be asleep. I would like us to consider having meetings on, Don you will love this, here, on the east side, or at the west side, and some also on the east side. Either at the Ocean Center. This is what we would have to discuss. Lifeguard headquarters has the ability for that. The charter allows us to do that with public notice from time to time. We would have to discuss what this time to time means. Is it every other meeting? Is it once a quarter? If we were to do it, I am asking you to consider it, does it become our habit, I would like to put a sunset clause on it, that we try it and if it doesn't work, we stop it. Because there are issues that come with it, moving people around. I am asking the Council, what are your thoughts on that? DON DEMPSEY: I am not a fan of it. (Multiple speakers) JEFFREY S BROWER: I am overlooking Jake all day. DON DEMPSEY: We are the county seat. Like it or not, Tallahassee, I'm sure we would like to have Miami to help out, but everything is held in Tallahassee, everything is held in DC, where the county seat and we need to be here, out of principal. If you want to vote and change Daytona to the county seat, so be it. As long as we are the county seat, all of this, annex this and that, that defeats the whole intent of what I believe was meant to be the county seat. All government business should be in the county seat. JEFFREY S BROWER: Because you live here? DON DEMPSEY: No! It has nothing to do with that. It's the county seat. If you remember the branch Jail debate four years ago, and all of the courthouse annex as we got, there is a a reason they are called annexes and branch deal, they are supposed to be in the county seat. This is the heart of Volusia County government in Deland. I've had constituents on the west side tell me that if you go to a board of realtor, any association, it is on the east side. It gets kind of monotonous as a west sider to know that any type of important meeting of most organizations has to be on the east side peered which is not right. I am an avid no to anything being transferred to the Eastside when this is the county seat and this is where the work is supposed to be done, historically. JEFFREY S BROWER: Councilman Johansson. JAKE JOHANSSON: I was going to say is the same thing to dwindle this beautiful building for this reason. It is the county seat. It is where we need to be. I'm an Eastside guy. It's a pain in the neck in the morning, 35 or 40 minutes to get in with the traffic now that school is back. But it is worth it. This is where we belong. I do concur that things are not working out. Not that I have counted heads, like we do at church, but I've noted, I don't know, I go to church, Don. I'm sorry. And I also pay attention to who does not pay money in the… In the pot either. The daytime events bring more people. The nighttime events, especially when they are at the midnight hours, which we have not done a lot of but we have done a few, it starts to wear on people. To the point where it starts to wear on us. Towards the end of the agenda, it goes pretty quick. Usually, George tees them up so they can go quick. But if there is an issue that needs to be discussed, after 10 o'clock we are like, forget it, let's go home. That is not what we're here for. In might be something we don't realize. So… Troy is not here. He's going to kill me. But I would like to make a motion in January to move back to days and keep it here. JEFFREY S BROWER: The motion is to bring that back to counsel in January? JAKE JOHANSSON: To start going all day from 9 AM, starting in January. In Deland. The reason I said January is because Troy is not here. If this goes to yes he will have to make plans to get here. I don't want to make him that miserable. And to an extent I am sorry, Don, as well. JEFFREY S BROWER: The motion by Councilman Johansson is to keep the meetings in Deland and only in the daytime and bring that back to counsel in January. JAKE JOHANSSON: To start day meetings in January, not bring it back. JEFFREY S BROWER: You want to vote… JAKE JOHANSSON: Let's put it on the agenda to vote next – SPEAKER: You have an organizational meeting in January anyways. If the motion passes, that is direction enough to Carissa and George, the proposed meeting schedule they bring forward will reflect that. And you would prove it at that meeting. JAKE JOHANSSON: And just for my clarification, that organizational meeting by charter has to happen in January, right? SPEAKER: That's right. JEFFREY S BROWER: First Thursday. DAVID SANTIAGO: Question on that comment. I want to make sure I understand what the staff said. Based on the commentary that has been made, it will reflect that, what does that mean? SPEAKER: The proposed meeting schedule that you approve, disapprove, or change, if this motion passes, would reflect that. I think whatever direction you give today will be helpful to George and Carissa as they put something together. DAVID SANTIAGO: If the motion passes. I would add my comment to that if that is OK. My vote is that I'm not ready to make that change yet. I will be voting no on it. I see more than one value to it, I agree the audience participation, I think there is additional value to having that capability, and I think staff has done a good job at adapting to the agenda and the timing of certain things that come before us. I know some things are already on the shock clock. But I think we have gotten better at managing the evening meetings with the agenda, so for other reasons I would be voting no. Thank you. JEFFREY S BROWER: The motion is to bring it back so we can fully discuss it. Now we know how you will vote. But you could change your mind in January as well. DAVID SANTIAGO: Don has done a good job changing my mind today. JEFFREY S BROWER: Yes. We both get what we want in January. We would have to discuss location and time and I think that would be a valuable discussion. I think I hear what everyone is saying. Don? DON DEMPSEY: I did not know, are we voting just to bring it back on the agenda so that Troy can talk in any public input can be… JEFFREY S BROWER: In January. DON DEMPSEY: Nothing is going to change. Nothing is going to be done. JAKE JOHANSSON: My motion passes, they will have daytime meetings on the discussion. If not, it will probably stay day night, day night. SPEAKER: Either way, George and Chris will bring back a proposed meeting schedule that you can change or approve or disapprove at your organizational meeting. DON DEMPSEY: So it's still going to come up in January whether it passes or fails today. SPEAKER: It is, I think the only benefit is that it gives direction to what staff helps put together for you. DON DEMPSEY: Selfishly I am against it because I kind of like Troy, but it's not about me. It is about what is good for the community. I don't know. I think it should be, Jake has always said we don't want to vote on anything through comment, we want an agenda and give everyone the right to come in and be heard. I'm not ready to vote on it. So no as of now. JEFFREY S BROWER: Will see in a minute if you are opposed to bringing it back, it has to come back anyways. DON DEMPSEY: That's why I'm saying, it does not matter, it is coming back. JAKE JOHANSSON: I just… I do want to beat a dead horse. JEFFREY S BROWER: Here we go. You need a weapon? (Laughter) JAKE JOHANSSON: We got elected to do the job, here. We did not elected to work around everyone's work schedule. If you can't meet as elected officials during the daytime, why did you run for office? DON DEMPSEY: It was not me who brought this up. JAKE JOHANSSON: That has been my rub the whole time here and we are elected officials, and when we sign up for this, we sign-up for the 20 boards that the chairman decides to put us on, which is added response ability. We sign-up to be available to the public in a timely manner. When I signed up it was every other week on Tuesday for a meeting during the day. Now we changed it to days and nights. I'm just saying, I think that we had an obligation and I had a vision of what I thought an elected office would be, based on what I saw in the past. I want to make sure that we are not starting to change what we do as a counsel to suit our own best interests. That is all. We are not here for our own best interests. DON DEMPSEY: Jake, I took the job knowing it was two Tuesdays a month during the day. Right now, I should be in court, I have coverage. The only reason I mention that is to be purely transparent. Yes, I don't want anyone looking and saying he's just doing it for himself. Obviously it would benefit me because I don't have to reschedule my hearings and stuff like that. I have a job. I have to work. I did not bring this up. It was not my idea that brought it up to change to night meetings. And I was transparent back then. It does selfishly benefit me. How my going to say it doesn't? It does. I don't have to reschedule stuff, I don't have to juggle hearings or stuff like that. That is why I said it. I'm not asking this for selfish reasons. I'm asking it because like David said, you are the one that always says that we should not vote on stuff, that we bring up at the last minute. Everything should be on the agenda. JAKE JOHANSSON: We are not going to change anything paired we are voting to see how it looks on the organizational meeting in January. DON DEMPSEY: It is coming up whether we vote yes or no today or not. So what is this all about? JAKE JOHANSSON: Vote! Call into question! JEFFREY S BROWER: All in favor of bringing this up in the January organizational meeting to discuss time of meeting and location, the motion is to stay in Deland and to only have daytime meetings, correct? JAKE JOHANSSON: Correct. JEFFREY S BROWER: But we are going to discuss it, I have no idea how that vote will go right now. That is the motion. SPEAKER: Can you clarify who seconded the motion? JEFFREY S BROWER: Was there a second on the motion? Danny Robins. Robins makes a second. All in favor of bringing it back so we can talk about it again, say aye. JAKE JOHANSSON: Not the motion. I don't believe that was the motion. The motion is to have the meetings in Deland during the daytime to be placed on the agenda on January's organizational meeting. JEFFREY S BROWER: There it is. Chrissy, you better call role. I only heard two ayes coming up. DON DEMPSEY: So what exactly… JEFFREY S BROWER: The motion on the table is to bring back in the January organizational meeting, is that the 14th? SPEAKER: It would be the first Thursday. JEFFREY S BROWER: The first Thursday. To discuss having, this is a motion to discuss only having daytime meetings and only in Deland. You are not voting to just have daytime meetings in Deland, we are voting to discuss it in January. DON DEMPSEY: What is the significance of a yes or no vote? JAKE JOHANSSON: Virtually nothing. Called the question. JEFFREY S BROWER: It just brings it back. SPEAKER: Mr Robbins? Mr Santiago? DAVID SANTIAGO: No. DON DEMPSEY: No. JAKE JOHANSSON: Yes. MATT REINHART: Yes. JEFFREY S BROWER: Yes. So I think it comes back (Laughs) To talking about again. Alright. I have two other quick things. Ben is in the room. Michael Dyer, your name is up here. Is that… SPEAKER: This time it was not an accident. I will not belabor it now. You represented it a little bit. Sometime before the organizational meeting, I will make sure you have the language from the charter that speaks to meetings and locations. JEFFREY S. BROWER: Now the water falls apostate Street. Where does that stand? SPEAKER: As I recall it was a property owner that filled in a second driver when the permit. I believe we had to go back and pull a Permit of the top of my head I do not know. SPEAKER: That was a determination, you just do not know if it was done on it. I could check on that and get you the information. The next might be another bit more complicated. It is a red Robin Drive. We cannot go in and do anything but a homeowner covered a culvert with a metal plate. It goes to Jake's statement about "Should I do a thing? Can I do it for?" What the result is it is backing up the water to four other homes in this culvert and flocking them. Is it legal for that to happen? They can just close up the culvert on a private world? Does anybody know? SPEAKER: I am going to look to my friend Clay on this. From a public work standpoint, public road, no private right of way. CLAY ERVIN: Our staff met with the property owner, identified the concern. They were identified to do some excavation to fully open the area they are going to be doing as best as they can. But there is underground utilities in that area that would be going down overly deep. We did go out there and identify also there is a larger issue in that the actual ditch that would drain the entire area is overgrown, that feeds out to (indiscernible). So what you have is a private development with all of this in place, and in adequate authority the nature. And a complete lack of mated dates of the main train facility. So we are working to try to get the one property owner to do the best that they can that given the physical constraints from the power that is underground. And also just letting everybody know outflared that if they are not cleared out and clearing the ditch, that would probably solve the majority of the issue. SPEAKER: And I agree. I just want to make sure I understand this, and nail it down. I am meeting with a neighbourhood, with a couple of residents. I will transfer what you just said. Everybody check your ditches. If he cannot do it, you have to do it yourself. But covering up the culvert, I do not understand how that would affect. And again, this is not us. But if the excuse is from him, from that homeowner, that I will disturb utilities, the culvert is already there. He just put a metal plate over it and covered it with dirt. He could remove that without destroying utilities. CLAY ERVIN: Might, be which is looking at what could be done with regards to (indiscernible). SPEAKER: I want to know yes or no, was just the truth? He said that he met here with some legal staff, I do not know who, and the legal staff said he did not have to do a damn thing. That was his quote. CLAY ERVIN: We did have a meeting with code enforcement, (indiscernible) I would not say that we didn't say he had to do a damn thing. We may have indicated that we have relatively limited options from a county perspective. But it is still a situation that even if the county cannot force compliance, he still has potential issue with a several lawsuit. And a lot of these flooding issues, they come down from several situations. Where for example, a vacant lot is there… SPEAKER: We have lost quorum... SPEAKER: I am not asking for a vote. SPEAKER: We are supposed to be in session when there is a quorum. JEFFREY S BROWER: I think even all of this, since it is a private HOA, a private stitch, is that Dick Cheney common area? Could one of the other homeowners go out there and removed plate antidotes so that the houses are not flooded? CLAY ERVIN: I can trust my memory on this but if I remember correctly we didn't see any specific easements or otherwise that would allow for an HOA to go in there and do the maintenance and improvements themselves. I would have to go back and verify the facts but I didn't believe there was an easement. Typically in a private world do have an easement, I've under subdivision or by separate (indiscernible). Who has the right to come in and do mentors. In this situation, we did not find that. DON DEMPSEY: I was not in this meeting, (indiscernible) it is a private dispute between neighbours. And from what I am hearing about this one, it sounds like that is the case. A very close to it. And some folks do not want to hear that. They want the county to get involved. I appreciate that, I understand. But you know, it may be something they have to bring against the person that is causing them harm. JEFFREY S BROWER: So they have to bring it to Court. Because what they are hoping… DON DEMPSEY: I cannot give them legal advice. JEFFREY S BROWER: What they are hoping is that this is land that benefits the whole development. It is a common swale. Can we just go out and clear it? Without getting arrested. SPEAKER: (indiscernible) make that entity is a what the actual votes are, that would have to be resolved by mutual agreement about who can come in, and clear that area. Because that is not something we can even apply in on Wever under to the neighbourhood as a whole has the right to clean the swale infidel the house. CLAY ERVIN: These lots were created under old exempted. That is a 2 1/2 acre lots for we did not require stormwater or any other identification regards to how to address the infrastructure. So this is a situation where again, the vote was put in, there is no cavity about maintenance, there is no real truth stormwater other than a drainage out to there. So we are not even aware of any easements on that ditch to be honest. SPEAKER: Thank you for the discussion. I think what we are hearing is the homeowner is going to have to take it to Court. It is a shame that the action of one homeowner, exactly as Jake said earlier, he is of flooding out the rest of the neighbourhood and he does not care. He is giving him the finger. I am supposed one of the neighbours didn't just go out and remove what he did. Pardon me? Or his finger. So, OK, I am not going to beat a dead horse. JAKE JOHANSSON: Because across the street, I had this issue with a constituent. This event will open every, where they run into outstanding (indiscernible) DOP. If they clear it out, are they going to get in trouble? From St. John's? And should we at least tell them look, before you do anything…? SPEAKER: I have been a genuinely surprised at some of the things that people claim is a (indiscernible). JAKE JOHANSSON: That is why I asked. SPEAKER: Especially of late. But I would always recommend that in a private property situation if they are not sure they consult permitting. JAKE JOHANSSON: If you are delivering that message, you might want to find a constituent (indiscernible) I think. SPEAKER: Centric you had that come before import of it. SPEAKER: No, that was an actual (indiscernible) citizen. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK. So we will adjourn at 1:28 PM until precisely 6 PM, for the budget meeting. And, thank you very much. (Meeting adjournment until 6 PM) (Break) (Video plays) (Music plays) SPEAKER: Welcome to the Volusia County Council meeting. The meeting will begin in 10 minutes. (Music plays) SPEAKER: Welcome to the Volusia County Council meeting. The meeting will begin in 5 minutes. (Music plays) SPEAKER: Welcome to the Volusia County Council meeting. The meeting will begin in two minutes. (Music) JEFFREY S BROWER: OK, if everyone wants to find a seat. We can get started. JEFFREY S BROWER: Thank you all very much. We will call the County Council meeting back into session at 6 PM public hearing on the annual budget. George. GEORGE RECKTENWALD: Mr. Chair. Will do. For the purpose of today's meeting is to first of all to require by Florida statute 200.065, we are here to discuss the rates and the percentage increase of rollback where applicable. We are here to explain the reasons for the proposed increase of the rollback which in the General fund is pretty simple. We simply cannot absorb the $3.4 million gross that it would cost. It's also the opportunity for the pup to speak and ask questions. This meeting will tentatively set the village rates but the final adoption will be set at the next meeting and we will set the recommended budget the same way for final option at the second meeting and will also set that meeting at the end here. Which of course will be two weeks from tonight. That being said, that is our purpose and am going to turn it over here to our budget director who has, along with the team... I do want to say for those who may be first-time or they haven't been following the budget process did just start yesterday. This is something we have worked on typically, a gets worked on from January on to today's date. We have a couple months reprieve right back at it in January, we have already had discussions here, we will be talking about roads and all these things for next year. Also are capital programs usually start, those things start really in January. We worked through the year. Many of the meetings that we have had, and of course, back in June with the five-year forecast which is really trying to budget in a five-year increment so people can see not only what is happening this year, but what we are up against her challenges in the future. We only adopt one budget at a time, and of course, the village rights were tentatively set in July. You guys give us direction here in the last meeting in August, to bring those village rates back to what we originally proposed in a minute, and that brings us here today to the first two budget hearings that are required. Take it away. JEFFREY S BROWER: This is a little different than our normal meetings. You like the public to hear your presentation first, so later on we will have public participation before the council even discusses it. I didn't want anybody to think they were going to be left out. Go ahead. SPEAKER: As George mentioned, we did have changes from the previous Council meeting, that we are presenting here today, the general fund was reduced from the rate that was set July 16 to the new rate of 3.2007 which is the general fund rate is at the rollback rate was increased cost. The operating budget was reduced from the 1.3 billion, 1.327 to 1.322, that differences the 5 million that we were proposing for roads. In the nonoperating budget was reduced well because the roads were going to a capital fund lending the money in the operating and then transferring bit. It was a 5 million and we had counted both places which is why you should add the nonoperating budget because it is double counting those numbers. This gives you a village rate comparison of all of our taxing funds, compared to 23 Twitty fours adopted rates. And also compares to that when he for 25 rollback rate for each fund. We have four rates that have been reduced in five rates that Flat including the Volusia forever and echo programs. And then one rates that has increased which is the law enforcement fund for countywide law enforcement services. As far as where the rates are compared to rollback, and the general fund, this gives you a look at what 3.2007 and what the 3.1437 Mills. The difference is that it is dedicated to the increased cost and that is the only difference that... Where we are at with rollback and recommended rate. In the law-enforcement fund to this give you a comparison of the valour of tax revenue at 1.5994 which of the recommended mill compared to the rollback rate of 1.3452. The additional tax revenue in this fund is to fully fund the Sheriff's budget request and to satisfy countywide law enforcement needs. Felicia forever and echo, this is there... And additionally hundred $70,000 when you compared the rollback... In additional revenue for echo will allow for more opportunities and forever it will provide more funding for land purchases and land conservation management. The Embassy comparison and rollback rate there is an additional $1.5 million in tax revenue, the revenue is dedicated to the additional cost for police patrol and the unincorporated area. The MSDS for unincorporated Volusia, the sheriff is the patrol agency for unincorporated Volusia. We don't pay for that out of the countywide law enforcement, will be for that unincorporated, Jessica said he has to lobby for their large horsemen, visit the unincorporated area for the patrol of corporative. The port authority comparison, the additional tax revenue is going to intracoastal dredging and beech tree renourishment. We are putting aside money for that. The fire comparison rollback is dedicated to funding union agreement that was approved earlier this year. And then the capital needs we have station 15, station 22 and station 34 that are all and location and remodelling operations now. This gives you a look at the total recommended budget which includes reserves for each of our taxing funds and then what the revenue is going to be for 24 and 25 based on the recommendations today. This gives you a look at the countywide operating revenues by category the ad valorem taxes. The CR passed through is also ad valorem taxes, and that will pass right through the community and develop in agencies that we have there, there is 18 of them. This is the countywide operating expenditures by category. Give you a look at the categorical breakdown of our entire operating budget. You see the reserves at 28.4%, that ties back to the fund balance from the previous slide, you see 36.8% of fund balance of 486 million. We are using the difference between that 486 and the 377 of one-time money throat all of our funds in this year's budget. Where using a substantial amount of that to fund this year's budget. At this time, lesser in question for counsel, we can go public participation that we can go back to the councils JEFFREY S BROWER: I have one question, it's not really a question of its for you to explain... The law-enforcement budget, that I think it is important you and Ryan don't set that, the Council doesn't set it, the sheriff... They know what they need to better than we do., Is that, everything I said true? SPEAKER: Its 100% true, they know what their needs are and will set the millage rate on its entirety. The vote for that tax rate is about to that budget. PAOLO SORIA: Or any of those other items millage capped? SPEAKER: Are there two millage caps. If you are a city, you are a 10 mil, and then there is the For the law-enforcement fund. This is the first year we... It is formally known as the fund so it allows you to levy up to the two mills for law enforcement needs, and so that is what we are doing, that's what we did last year so that is capped at two mil. If you were to reach that to middle In the fund, the funding for the Sheriff which is rolled to the general fund at that point, if the budget exceeded that two mil cap, because at the end of the day, that was done under statute, and bold statute, there are other two counties that led the village for the fund. And is basically general fund and still countywide, it still a countywide fund but for countywide law enforcement, there are two caps. PAOLO SORIA: Thank you, sir. JEFFREY S BROWER: On the same subject, if the Council, if the Sheriff submits his budget, the council voted to not accept what happens. SPEAKER: It would basically go to the Governor and the governor would make decision on whether or not to support the Sheriff or support the Council. JEFFREY S BROWER: OK. I'm getting a lot of questions on it. PAOLO SORIA: Did anybody know with staff if there has been a movement to make all constitutional officers separate line item with the own individual. SPEAKER: You can't do that, they are commission based offices so they get a commission, if it's in a property appraiser is based on the taxes each entity in the prior year. The cities and the school board don't pay the property appraiser commissions, the County has to pay them you are just finding down the property budget based on the ad valorem taxes in the prior year by percentage. So the only other entities that fund the property appraiser would be the St. Johns River water management District and our independent district within the county and the hospital districts. The cities and the school board, like I said, will pay that part by statute. The tax collectors also commission based, they are based percentage off of current. The cities and the school board to not pay any commission there, you got the same entities that pay the commissions for the tax cultures as well for. PAOLO SORIA: Does anybody know if there has been an effort to do that? SPEAKER: Not to my knowledge, they would have to change the state. SPEAKER: Will try to show it and we can show things as a percentage, although if we know what their budget basically when you do the calculation, you can see what their budget is. You can take a percentage of the whole which would none this fairly give you a village, but it gives you comparison. PAOLO SORIA: I get it, George, I just think it is a flawed system because the general public things will get the right but now with this constitutional amendment that happened, we are all because additional officers, they essentially create their own budgets because if we don't approve it, like you were saying, they are just gonna stay in the overwrite and 99% of time, we have to do it. The legislature, just saying the constitutional officers, you are held were spots with your own budgets. But that is maybe a legislative power that the County that the Association can a pushed but overall, in the interest of transparency, thank you. That's maybe a legislative priority that the Association can push. In the interest of transparency. JEFF BROWER: That leads to one other question, I'm sorry. If I understood you correctly the property appraisers received a commission based on the property value of the previous year. SPEAKER: Not property values the taxes levied by each entity. The County levees tender for tax entities each city is a levy, the school board has three and then the independent districts count for 3+ Florida and the navigation St. John slurs five in the district. JEFF BROWER: It sounded like there was a conflict. If he tells us every year how much the property values went up and if he is getting commissions from not it's a bit of a conflict. SPEAKER: It's a percentage of the taxes levied in the prior year. JEFF BROWER: Sorry, Larry. Go ahead, thank you. If there's nothing else you can go to public participation if you'd like. Clarissa, did you receive any more of the little stars with the Pamela Walker? Did she leave? John Nicholson. SPEAKER: A little problem with Danny DeVito behind me. (Laughter) SPEAKER: You can lower that stand. We just did that. This is the first time in years I don't have to go on about Rollback rates and the problem of Rollback rate. Secondly, I do have a problem of not doing the .005 mileage for infrastructure. I know we are kicking the can down the road, but at some point the can has to stop. We have to do infrastructure. I know there's talk about may be, sorta, kind of possibly, perhaps may be doing it next year, but it's been five or six years since we lost to have any sales tax. I do want to bring it up. I do want to be a pain in the rear end with regard to the need for infrastructure. I mentioned earlier in the day the need for drainage and flooding. The need we absolutely need to get a hold of the infrastructure. The roads, the bridges, things of that nature, if that has to be sales tax it would put us at almost $300 million at this point. I'm sure George would have fixed several roads for that kind of money. If we had passed it we would have been sitting pretty good. I'm asking you to think about funding, talking or bringing forward the sales tax. I would prefer a penny sales tax to match our competitors. The other counties are at eight. If we go to 7.5 we will still be below competing counties. Lastly, I like to be those explanation on the sheriff and his grasp of our budget but I would not be able to explain to my neighbors and people who ask me, "Can you explain that?" And I can't. If the chief wants to build this building or facility or whatever your hands are tied. Basically if you say no we can't afford that $400 million facility or whatever, it's not in our budget, he just says oh well I will go to the governor and get it passed. Then we have to eat it. And guess who gets voted out of office? He doesn't. There's no relying on Mike Chitwood being in office forever. It goes with the office, not the person. So, when he leaves that problem will remain forever. If you could kind of explain that to the public more. If I don't understand it I absently know the public doesn't. Thank you. JEFF BROWER: Thank you. That completes public participation. Unless you have more? You do not. It takes us to counsel discussion. SPEAKER: Good? JEFF BROWER: Yes. SPEAKER: I still would have stood behind the additional monies that we have proposed when we put the original notice out there, and I think we had talked about investing better the infrastructure budget. I know the conversation was it's a drop in the bucket but it's a step in the right move so I guess I'm OK with this budget, but I think we have to stop kicking the can down the road with some of these things. If you recall a few months ago we were dealing with things that were kicked prior years and many of us were upset that prior councils had kicked the can on other topics when they had not invested money in areas that we should have. I will just express that if that were in there I'd be OK with it because we noticed it and we have a lot of road projects and a lot of infrastructure projects that we have to fund. Thank you, Mr. chair. JEFF BROWER: Councilman Johansson? JAKE JOHANSSON: I concur with what Santiago said and it's incumbent upon all of us here, and I alluded to it earlier in the day, that as soon as the election is over, as soon as we figure out who is who in the zoo and come January 1 that we need to put our nose to the grind stone. One of the things I'll tell you at the organization meeting is workshops, workshops, workshops. We like debating, we like having casual conversation. This budget is important. We are talking about bonding things already. I am not opposed to discussing every option out there, every option, even the ones I'm not too fond of because we have to solve the problems. We have to work on our core responsibilities. I'm not saying that the sky is falling, but I don't want it to fall on my watch and I want to set the next Council up long after I go for success, not to be yet a couple of million dollars behind yet again more than we are now. We've got a lot to do. Next year's not an election year and there will be a lot of charge discussion. Let's just do it and do the tough thing and be leaders and make the commitment to make our county safe, prosperous and free of whatever problem, we think flooding being one of them. Our roads being another. Traffic a little bit harder because there's about 80 people who have their paws in that process, but it's an opportunity, so I concur, Mr. Santiago. Think, sir. JEFF BROWER: Councilman Robbins? DANNY ROBBINS: It's the same and I brought it up, but to honor my word to my constituents we found some options to get us up off the ground. George in the team did a great job of that. We've also made a commitment to start January 1 and sit down and look at this. I want to use that village increase as leverage to get that unassigned money, but also we've planted the seed for something and I think it's something that's good and will get us closer towards the finish line. At the end of the day I would be remiss if I didn't give the team a chance if I didn't retract and hold up my end of the bargain to take that off the table as we found it. I like to give us an option to sit down and talk at the workshop and see what the best avenue of approach is before we do that. I'm not opposed to it because we do need it. I think we just see where it goes. Come back in January. County manager? Sometime in January? OK. JEFF BROWER: David Santiago for question for you. SPEAKER: I understand what you're saying but at that point we won't have millage. We don't set millage in January. You're saying keep it to the end of the year. DANNY ROBBINS: The way I understood it because it's that planning when we were talking. Aaron, can you explain that? That process and sort of what the plan was where we can figure this millage into the budget for this coming year for that? SPEAKER: You guys voted to direct $3.8 million in money to the roads instead of the millage this year, and you will have the workshop in January. You will look at where the road program is at, what the priorities are, what the funding needs are for that program that we can determine the best way to move forward funding it and we can work that into our budget request, the county's recommended budget next year. Your values typically grow each year. There have been years in the pastor they have fallen so there could be some value change that could help us in achieving that road millage, or we could find other ways to present the millage rate to you guys to include the road funding or portion of it. SPEAKER: The $3.3 million funding? $3.8 million she said, where is that coming from? That was what we did two weeks ago, right? SPEAKER: That was (unknown term) reserves. SPEAKER: I know we have a lot more that we have to do. It's a drop in the bucket. I get it. I'm not beating up on you. I just wish we would take the bull by the horns, you know what I mean? I'm ready to grab that thing and I've never been to no rodeo. You, Mr. chair. JEFF BROWER: You done? I will just add this to that. My concern is that if we add to the millage rate to pay for roads that's part of the general fu long nd we will never see Rollback again. The need is tremendous for infrastructure. I am looking forward to the workshop we are going to have with looking at how we can finance and like Jake said to talk about things that I don't necessarily like that I'm not going to vote for, for a sales tax increase, but we need to look at it all. I'm just putting it on the table. That's my concern with that increase is that it just grows, and grows, and forever. SPEAKER: Is going to make a motion. JEFF BROWER: Let me just finish with this. I wanted to tell staff and counsel a year ago when we started discussing this I had asked for a percentage increase and George said rather than do a percentage why don't we bring you back a budget that goes to Rollback, which was ultimately the goal. I appreciate the hard work that was done to do that. We came just shy of it because of sun rail. We still don't know who know exactly how much Real Is Going to Cost Us. We Have a Better Idea but it's not what we feared five years ago but we still don't know. It could be worse than what we expect depending on what the central Florida commuter commission does in our response to it. Sun rail still lose out there is a big hurdle. So, Commissioner, Councilman Santiago? You want to make a? SPEAKER: You want me to read them into the number? SPEAKER: I will read the rates into the record you guys can vote on the rates and then have to read the budget into the record and you can vote on that. Are you ready to proceed with that? SPEAKER: Yes her. SPEAKER: ... Which is greater than the rollback rate of 1.542 mil by 18.9%. The fiscal year 2425 operating military for the countywide taxing authority of the Volusia County Libra fund is a robotic rate of 0.3891 mils. The fiscal year 2425 operating Village rate for the countywide taxing authority 0.2000 mils, which is greater than the rollback rate of 0.1850 mil by 8.1%. The fiscal year 2425 operating village rate for the village rate of the village echo fund is 0.2000 mils, which is greater than the rollback rate of 0.18500 mils by 8.1%. The fiscal year 2425 operating village rate for the taxing authority control fund is the rollback rate of 0.1647 mils. The fiscal year Tony 425 operating village rate for the taxing authority of port authority fund is 0.0692 mils, which is greater than the rollback rate of 0.0640 mils by 8.1%. The fiscal year two a for 25 village rate for the taxing authority and municipals District fund is 1.6956 mils which is great in the rollback rate of 1.5646 mill by 8.4%. The for skilled when it for 25 operating village rate for the taxing authority of silver sands municipal service District fund is the rollback rate of 0.0106 Mills. The fiscal year Tony 425 operating village rate for the taxing authority fire rescue District fund is 3.8412 mills, which is greater than the rollback rate of 3.5459 mills by 8.3%. JEFFREY S BROWER: Did you have a motion? DAVID SANTIAGO: Motion to accept. JEFFREY S BROWER: Will have the motion to accept the village rates as read by Councilman Santiago. Any other discussion or questions? All in favor say aye. Any opposed? Millage rates are set 6 to 0. SPEAKER: The fiscal rate operating budget is the amount of $1,322,153,507 and the non-offering budget of $257,428,775. DAVID SANTIAGO: Motion to accept the budget? JEFFREY S BROWER: Motion to accept the budget first was by Santiago, and for comment? DAVID SANTIAGO: I know you have your team but here, your leadership team, thing for the work you do with the money will give you, you guys all do a great job. Since you are all here at the same time. Thank You, George. JEFFREY S BROWER: Before we vote on it, I want to put a little bit in perspective. I printed out something that you and Ryan had sent us in 2015 the millage rate was 6.71. Which is voted on 3.2. We cut in half, basically. In 2020, it was 5.6, 5.59. We are headed in the right direction. We couldn't do it, this is a Catch-22 if there wasn't new houses being built and new taxes being levied and property values going up because so many people want to live here. It is a Catch-22, but those are significant numbers in 2015 to have 6.31 and today 3.2. With that said, we have a motion and a second on the floor to accept and approve the budget, all in favor say aye. Any opposed? In the budget is approved 6 to 0. SPEAKER: The last thing I need you guys to do is to approve the second budget meeting that we will advertise. It says 6 PM on the slide, it is a night meeting already, just for full disclosure, you can do 5:01 PM or later, you can't do any earlier than that. If you wanted to set a 5:01 PM, you could, or you could keep it at the 6 o'clock. SPEAKER: I will be here. JEFFREY S BROWER: We will be here from 4 PM on we can stop at 6 o'clock and do the budget. David can help me manage the agenda. DAVID SANTIAGO: I would be happy to, Mr. Chair. SPEAKER: Second. JEFFREY S BROWER: We have a motion to keep it at 6 PM. At the next Council meeting. Any discussion on that? All in favor say aye. Any opposed? And the meeting is set. And we are adjourned at 6:36 PM. (Meeting adjourned at 6:36pm)