>> Okay. We are a couple minutes behind. But this is a special morning. We are glad to see everyone here today. We will call the January nine, 2025 Volusia County Council meeting to order at 9:03. We are going to start a little bit differently today. As you know, we have three members that will be sworn in this morning. It is a special event for them and their families. So we appreciate you being here. I do not believe that the pastor is here. Is that correct? Are you in the room? I have not seen him. We will open up with an invocation since he is not here. If everyone would stand, we will have 60 seconds of self reflection and your personal prayer. And then we will go right into the Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. All right. We are starting this morning with a very special Council meeting. >> Mr. Brower, I will go ahead and take the role. Aye here. >> REPRESENTATIVE DEMPSEY: Here. >> VICE CHAIR KENT: Here. >> REPRESENTATIVE REINHART: Here. >> REPRESENTATIVE ROBINS: >> CHAIR BROWER: Here. >> We will go a little bit off of the agenda for the oath of office to give family members a bit of a chance to be here. We will start with the oath of office and the swearing in of our current vice chair, chair Kent. >> VICE CHAIR KENT: Thank you. With my family please join me up here? >> Troy, where are your dogs? We will say that we are very pleased to have the judge here to do the honors. >> Good morning. I am so blown away. My family surprised me. I knew my dad and my wife were coming. I am shocked about everyone else. >> Good morning sir. If you could just place your left hand on the Bible, raise your right hand and then repeat after me. I Troy Kent do we solemnly swear. >> I Troy can't do solemnly swear. >> That I will support, protect, and defend. >> The constitution and government of the new United States. >> The Constitution and government of the United States. >> And of the state of Florida. >> And that I am duly qualified to hold office. >> And I am duly qualified to hold office. >> Under the state of Florida. >> Under the state of Florida. >> That I will well and faithfully perform the duties of Volusia County Council District 4. >> The duties of Volusia County Council District 4. >> On which I am now about to enter. >> So help me God. >> Thank you Judge. I would have gotten flowers for all of my sisters. But I did not know that they were coming. And my daughter says give them to one of my sisters. She drove the furthest and surprised us to be here. >> Vice chair Kent, can you introduce us to the little guy here? >> VICE CHAIR KENT: Yes. This is our daughter Gabby. Gabby has two beautiful and wonderful baby boys. Hudson is all about grandma. And Truitt is all about Papa. And I don't have any favorites. German, thank you for that. That is Truitt and this is Hudson. Two of the most beautiful redheaded boys you will ever see. Okay. We will still go a little bit out of order. I will go next if my wife and family want to meet me down here in the front. All right. If you would please place your left hand on the Bible and repeat after me. I Jeffrey Brower do solemnly swear. >> I Jeffrey Brower do solemnly swear. >> That I will support, protect, and defend. >> That I will support, protect, and defend. >> The constitution and government of the United States. >> The Constitution and government of the United States. >> And of the state of Florida. >> That I am duly qualified to hold office. >> That I am duly qualified to hold office. >> Under the Constitution of the state of Florida. >> Under the Constitution of the state of Florida. >> And that I will well and faithfully perform. >> And that I will well and faithfully perform the duties of Volusia County Council chair. >> The duties of Volusia County Council chair. >> On which now I am about to enter. >> So help me God. >> So help me God. >> Congratulations! >> Thank you! >> Just a few words. Most of you know that we have a large family. We have nine children. They have all grown up so they all have jobs now. And I appreciate everyone of you coming. Some have already worked this morning. Family is important. But I also want to thank my family in the audience. All the people that made it possible for me to stand here today. Thank you all. And we will celebrate tomorrow! Thank you! [APPLAUSE] >> I have the least amount of people but they are here in spirit. I daughter was able to join me but my wife is very ill. Exactly. Easy! >> All right sir. If you would, please place your left hand on the Bible and raise your right hand and repeat after me. I Matthew Reinhart do solemnly swear. >> I met the right heart do solemnly swear. >> That I will support, protect, and defend. >> That I will support, protect, and defend. >> The constitution and government of the United States. >> The Constitution and government of the United States. >> And of the state of Florida. >> And of the state of Florida. >> That I am duly qualified to hold office. >> Under the Constitution of the state of Florida. >> Under the Constitution of the state of Florida. >> And that I will well and faithfully perform. >> The duties of Volusia County Council District 2. >> The duties of Volusia County Council District 2. >> On which I am now about to enter. >> So help me God. >> So help me God. >> Congratulations! >> Thank you! >>. >> Vice chair, you had a few words for some special people in the audience. >> VICE CHAIR KENT: I certainly appreciate it. I was able to introduce my grandchildren and my daughter and wife. I want to thank the voters in District 4 for giving me this incredible opportunity. I think them for putting their trust in me and I also wanted to thank my wife and my daughter. And of course my father and my sister, Sue. Also my brother John that is here. Mike, you are incredible. The net, you have been there every step of the way in my timeline picked up two years ago today. It was two years ago to the day that it happened. It is very special that I was surprised by some loving family members today. I want to tell everyone that I am committed to making this County better during my next and first ever four-year term. So thank you for the latitude. I truly appreciate it. >> We each have an opportunity for comments. Anything else? You are good? Okay. Councilman Reinhart? >> We have some family members that are out ill. My bonus son made it! But you're just a little late! But thank you for the friends and the support. I appreciate it very much. So thank you. >> It seems like campaigns get longer and longer. This was a long campaign. And we had some tremendous obstacles to overcome. It whatnot happened without the support of the voters of Volusia County. This is a large County. To travel the entire company and talk to as many people as possible is an arduous task. But it is so encouraging when you meet the people, I think it is the same for all of us. We truly have some really great people here. And we have some big issues that we need to take care of. But I would just like to think the people of Volusia County for giving me the opportunity to serve you again. And those of you who worked through a year and and a half of the campaign through 14 days of early voting. For long hours. The weather was pretty good in the general election. But those of you who worked on my campaign, stand up quickly please. My family as well. This is my oldest son, Brandon. He works in Orlando. So I am very glad to see you this morning. My daughter has already been at work this morning. She was up before I was this morning. Thank you everyone for your hard work. And thank you for the challenge that it is for family with a mother or father that runs for office. You take the brunt of everything that is thrown at me. You have given me encouragement and strength. Your character is something that I have always and will always be proud of. For each of you that are standing up, I could not have done it without you. You are inspiring. And I thank you for everything that you do. Terry, I don't know how you do it! But I am so glad that you do! We are honored to have two of our area mayors here. Which one of you would like to go first? The mayor of Daytona Beach, Nancy Miller would like to speak and the mayor, Lois Prensky. >> Good morning chair Brower. Good morning to you all. Congratulations on your reelection. We are very proud of you. For all other commissioners, good morning. On behalf of the Florida league of mayors, and the 16 mayors in Volusia County, and the Volusia league of cities which I am now president. We offer our support and any assistance that we can give. We look forward to our strong relationships. We view ourselves as an asset for you and are ready to offer any local insights and information to guide your decisions. In your decision-making, please reach out to us for any needs. We thank you for our service to this County. Each of you is greatly appreciated. >> Good morning. Mayor of the town of Poland's inlet. I also want to think this collective body. I want to echo what Mayor Miller has said. And I want to thank you. Because each one of you has always been wonderful to me. If I reach out to a phone call or email, we wanted to say that we appreciate the fact that you are available to us. And we thank you for all of your efforts on behalf of residents. Thank you so much. In the best of luck to all of you. We are here as a resource for you. >> What an honor for the two of you to come. One of the details of this meeting is that we are also honored to have students from University high school. This is the University high school of Government. Would you all come down for a picture please? [APPLAUSE] Pat, you would have to live everyone up the way that you'd like. I was quite encouraged to hear that everyone was present this morning. These are students who may end up running for office someday. And this is our future here. [APPLAUSE] >> CHAIR BROWER: Before you sit down, I want everyone to know that the paper announced that this is your 25th year. 25 years with the West Volusia deacon. You are here every meeting and you even go to the Deltona meetings. We truly appreciate your hard work. I don't know if any of the other two Councilmembers that were just elected have anything else to say? I wanted to add some quick comments with how EYE VIEW my job. And I want you all to know. We have all of the students that came in this morning to watch how government works. I think this is going to be a year where you see all of us coming together like we have not before. We will not agree on everything. But we can do it with honor, dignity, and respect for one another. That is how EYE VIEW my job. But first and foremost, my job and all of our roles is to protect your God-given and constitutionally protected rights. The second role is to give each one of my colleagues an equal opportunity to express their concerns and to speak out. There are some very smart people appear. And you should definitely be encouraged by that. I just want to speak to everyone and say let's have a year where we deal with each other with respect and maybe a little less rancor. I will follow the rules that we have set. But I will stretch the rules. We have a process where we listen to staff and then we debated. Quite frequently, when we are done with questions within debate, someone will have a question. I feel like my job is to always give them the opportunity to ask another question. Because the work that we do is that important. We need to get it right. And if someone has a question for anyone from staff, I think it has happened to everyone of us. I just ask that you give us all the leniency. I know we want to be efficient and not be here until midnight every night. But more important what the time limits is that we get it right and we treat each other with respect. You have my word that I will do that for each one of you. And I know that you will return for your colleagues. Anyone else? >> REPRESENTATIVE SANTIAGO: I appreciate your message and I truly look forward to it. The debate is always good. I have learned a lot from each and every one of you. And I'm quite encouraged by your message. >> I agree. I think I even had a conversation with one of your constituents that I looked forward to working with you. And I appreciate the sentiments and the fact that we have many challenges that we face and many of them are controversial. And typically they are not easy. One other thing is Brady, you didn't see the fact that I called Kayla my favorite right? It wasn't recorded? Thank you. I truly look forward to this. >> CHAIR BROWER: Currently, vice chair Troy Kent? >> VICE CHAIR KENT: I want to second your comment. Because I really think it is spot on. It is a new year with new beginnings. That leadership from the center chair and talking about working more cohesively and getting things done for our residents at the end of the day. I think all of the individuals up here are smart. And I look forward to hearing your ideas and learning from them and continuing to do great things. So thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you so much for all of you being here. I know that many of you have to leave and go back to work thank you all for coming. We will continue on with the business at hand. With item 1, the resolution of 2025 organization of Volusia County Council. Thank you all again! Councilman Robbins, I know you wanted to speak on item 2. >> Motion to approve resolution for the 2025 organization of Volusia County as presented. >> Second. >> The motion to adopt the new council by Councilman Robbins and the second was by Councilman Johansson. Any questions or debate? All in favor say Aye. >> Aye. >> Any opposed? It passes. We start off each year by electing a vice chair for 2025. I will take nominations. Councilman Robbins? >> I would like to nominate the Honorable district to Matt Reinhart. >> We have a nomination by Councilman Robbins and a second by Councilman Johansson. Are there any other nominations? If there are no nominations that we will close. I thought you had a really good idea burning! All in favor of Matt Reinhart for vice chair, please say Aye. >> Aye. >> Any opposed? >> and congratulations chair Reinhart. >> REPRESENTATIVE REINHART: Thank you so much. There is a lot of work and my sentiments earlier about working together and having us right next to each other, let's make it happen. Thank you so much. >> Congratulations Councilman. >> You should probably get a gold star for serving the first year! >> And it is under the threshold by the way. >> As long as it is not human, I will take it. >> Item 3 is adopting the 2025 Council meeting schedule. I'm sure everyone has had time to take a look at this. Are there any comments or questions for staff? I started to call you a vice chair. Councilman Troy Kent? >> REPRESENTATIVE KENT: Chairman and counsel, I want to take your temperature and see how you felt about the changes. I would like to do this now instead of later down the road. It can put staff in a pickle with moving things around. The first one is July first. I would like to remove that from the meeting schedule. Sorry chairman. There was some discussion about it perhaps being July third? I wanted to see what the Council thought about removing that. I know that many of our constituents are out of town and there are also Councilmembers that may be out of town as well. The second one is next to the Christmas holiday which is December 16th. So I will make a motion to remove meetings on July first and December 16th. >> CHAIR BROWER: We have a motion to remove those two meetings by Councilman Kent and a second by David Santiago. Any questions for staff? I will start with one because we did discuss it yesterday in a staff meeting. I know there seems to be some concern that whenever we drop a meeting, it really puts pressure on the next meeting and perhaps several meetings thereafter to try and catch up. Especially this year, we are anticipating a quite hefty schedule. Everyone up here respects the four of you. Would any of you like to speak to that? >> We do have a heavy workload. The only thing that I would say is as long as we have some flexibility in the meetings to perhaps follow what we're looking at, they could likely be a heavier meeting. >> And with a six hour time limit. >> That means that the following meeting would be difficult to make the six. And I think if everyone remains flexible, then we are fine. I know that the Council is serious. If something were to happen, we could schedule a meeting. So I do appreciate Mr. tents planning ahead. I do want to point out that everyone acknowledges that there would be another Thursday meeting in September. Because September, and order to do the weekly statute of the 65 days, it will have to occur from the time that the role was certified. We would really have to go and have our budget meeting on September fourth. That has to be after 5 o'clock. So we just said why don't we move the entire meeting for that day and just have one meeting. We could have our normal meeting on that Tuesday. >> I also noticed that. I saw that it was on the calendar. And that is why I did not touch it. Because I knew what staff needed to do there. And it is more efficient for us as well. >> Councilman Robbins? >> REPRESENTATIVE ROBINS: I think this is very achievable. I appreciate the renewal in the insurance for council to follow decorum. I appreciate everyone holding us accountable so that we can meet these limits, not just for us, but for the citizens as well to get the people's business done in an efficient and effective manner. So I will second the proposal. >> Councilman Johansson? >> REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSSON: Is there any consideration knowing that the July 22nd and December 16th meetings will be robust. That we have a time limit but that with a robust schedule, we may not make it. To make the 22nd and the 16th meetings in the morning? I think it affects Troy and Don more than anyone else. But has anyone thought to start in the mornings so that if we do know that it will go long but it does not go into the wee hours of the morning. That might help us, knowing that it will go probably more than six hours on the 22nd in the 16th. >> The 16th is the one that would be canceled. So we would already have the morning meeting. >> So the second in the 16th is what we're talking about? >> No. The 16th is going. >> We would remove July first. And December 16th. The only one that you are asking for is could July 22nd be a daytime? >> Yes, Sir. >> I prefer to keep it how it is. But I could do a daytime in July. But whatever the Council wants to do. >> If there is not less interest than I will not push it. >> Councilman Kent, was your name on? >> Councilman Dempsey? >> I am fine with that. Going all day is fine with me. I can work around it. >> For which state? >> July 22nd, Jake is proposing we make it a morning session. >> So the only day that we would make a change is July 22nd. It would be a daytime instead of a nighttime. >> Is the maker of the motion, I will withdraw my motion and restate another one. That we remove the July first meeting and the December 16th meeting. At that hour July 22nd meeting starts at 9:00 a.m.. instead of 4:00 p.m.. >> Councilman Robbins second-story stated motion. Any other questions or debate? I'm wondering, is there any concern or different issues that we have tried last year? I think it came from Councilman Kent that we have a nighttime meeting and start at four. So it's really not nighttime. But if we do start at four, we are here at 2 o'clock in the morning. Is everyone happy with the evening meetings? >> I am okay with that. >> Okay. So the motion on the floor is to remove July first and December 16th meetings and became the July 22nd meeting at 9:00 a.m.. all in favor say Aye. >> Aye. >> Any opposed? The motion carried seven – zero. For the public that was wondering if we skipped public participation, no. We moved it to the organizational part of the meeting which is required by our County Counsel. We will have public participation now. As I call your name, if you will come up to the podium, you will have three minutes to speak on the issues that affect our county. If you would just state where you're from, you don't have to give your full address for reasons of public safety. Tell us where you are from so that your representative knows where you are. There will be a clock in front of you and on the screen. Please stick to the three minutes and I will let you know. If you don't see the clock, then first we have Michelle, you don't want to go first? >> Good morning. I want to know when you are going to give us back the properties that you stole from us around our night. We bought 11.8 acres and we are down to less than five acres. I see people in the audience asking for sound. For me, it is not very loud. Is there anything we could do to turn up the volume? Do you want me to start over? >> Good morning. My name is Michelle Kramer. I live on Miller Lake. I want to know when you will all give us back our property that you stole from all of us on Miller Lake. We bought 11.8 acres and we are down to less than five acres. This is due to the County purchasing a small acreage of land and approving permits to allow orange city businesses to flow their water into our lake and trespass on our properties. We have lost one home having to move our daughter in with us and take down six mature oak trees due to the water killing them. We do not want to lose our land. We bought out here for the privacy and beauty. There are not too many old Florida properties. I grew up here in this used to be a beautiful County. Building is okay if you actually control the building. Instead you choose to flood home after home. Volusia County is ranked first in the state for the worst flooding problems. I would think that you would want to improve this instead of fixing the flooding problems which should be your number 1 priority. There are three viable places that the county can buy from. There are 60 acres behind Miller Road, Royal Oaks complex, or the big lots complex which is now closing. I know that we are not the only flooding issues. We are not the only area that needs help. And this cannot be sustained without you fixing the problem first. The wildlife has nowhere to go. We should not be the solution for existing businesses that flow their water into our private lake. Please look to fix this. This problem will only get worse. You should all be working with us and not against us. Thank you! >> Thank you for your comments. Paul Richardson? >> Good morning Council. As you know, America is divided these days and Volusia has been dealing with the fallout of recent flooding. Fortunately there is a bright spot in our future. The 250th Independence Day is fast approaching. I have not given up on my dream [AUDIO UNCLEAR] I will be going to staff in my role as Council member to bring all of this to you. What I would like from you is to historical figures from any era insignificance. You can have my email address so please send them to me. >> Thank you for your comments. Catherine Levinson? >> Good morning and congratulations for those who were voted in again. I will start different. I want to show you a book from orange city. It is a history book. What it says is that 175 years ago, like was started. It was started by people who came in to start farming. It is documented in this book and shows how Civil War men and women came and were buried there. There is a graveyard on Alice Road. This community that I live in has been there for at least 175 years. It is now threatened because as Miller Lake floods, the water goes up and will take over the graveyard which is a historical area. I know you are working on stopping the flooding. But it needs to be done faster. As much as this is helping us pump it out, two thirds is being pumped back in every day. It is a continuous flow from the permit that you authorized which is permit number 144361. That needs to be turned off or stopped. Anything you guys do to stop this needs to be done on the opposite side of 1792. Not to continue to flow water into us. This stops every time it rains. Which means it rains in the water goes up another inch or two. Because we get the overflow through the permitted pipelines. They need to be stopped and turned off. There is no permission to flood our private land. So whatever happened needs to stop. >> Thank you for your comments. David Hill? >> Thank you for letting me talk about Miller Lake. I used to be 700 feet per Miller Lake and now I have 100 feet of water from a property. And I did not give anyone permission to do this. I know the County agreed to permit and take the drain under Tremont Drive from the Royal Oaks exfiltration system which is merely a pipeline for hundreds of acres of orange city commercial water. All of that water is flowing in to Miller Lake. 24 hours a day and seven days a week. The county has five lots on Miller Lake. There is another 40 people that were not consulted that was permitted in 2017. The permit gives you solutions to stop this. And I do not understand why you are not requiring the County to take charge and stop this training into Miller Lake. I will not agree to this nor let you take my land. A solution is to stop this and let us take care of our water. The other solution is to raise the overflow structure in the pond and put your pumping system over there. The line that the water is being pumped out is closer. And you can keep all of the water on the east side. Pump the water wherever you want. But it needs to stay out of our lake. It is 2 and a half five acre parcels. They do not make these communities here anymore. It is being destroyed and I do not agree. You agreed to let the water in, but I did not. It needs to stop. And you need to do something. Pacifying is not going to work. The County will be judged by a panel of our peers. Because I do not accept the flooding of our land. I want something done and thank you for our time. >> Thank you for your comments. Anthony Frank? >> Good morning. I am part of the Miller Lake group. I have more questions than comments. Number 1, who is in charge of enforcing the law? Because we have been told that we cannot pump the water because we have no place to put it. But water is allowed to come in from orange city businesses. Why is that allowed? And why can't it stop? It causes adverse effects. The policies that have been put in place to put this water over there, I will tell you what it has done. It has done it to me and everyone on Miller Road. You have destroyed the value of my property. My life's work is down the train because the lake is flooded. If I wanted to leave, I wouldn't get a dime for it. They would come down Miller road, see the 10 acre horse ranch that is half in water and who will say I want some of that property? No one. There is a firefighter who is being flooded out because Volusia County gave permits for land to build these houses. And it should have never been given. There are a lot of properties where permits should not have been issued. Those are some of the properties that you buy. The horse ranch people got evicted because I guess they couldn't make the payments or something. I lived towards the end of the road. I am not flooded, but my property is not worth anything. You have financially killed everyone on Miller Road. You are financially murdering people. You took an oath to protect these people and you need to do your job. You have the ability to shut the water off. I don't know why we still have people that are walking through the woods to go and get their groceries and they have to carry them the length of a football field. If any of your wives was doing it, you would not stand for it. He would fix it. Go fix it for us. >> Thank you for your comments. Annette? >> Good morning chair and counsel. Today is day 91 and counting. 91 days that Miller Lake has flooded beyond capacity the residents of Miller Road has adjusted their lives to these conditions. 91 days the children cannot play more dogs run free due to risks alligators, snakes, and bacteria. 91 days that we have not been able to use our hobbies. We cannot use our RVs because we cannot get them off of our property. This is affected the likelihood of the presidents who had to sell their assets. 91 days that residents are without septic systems and running water. 91 days that some residents have not had vehicle access to their homes. How many of you will get in the car, drive up to your house, and park in your driveway or garage? Not me. For 91 days, my husband and I have been unable to partake in this luxury. We cut up section of our friends, walk down our neighbors driveway to get to our vehicles parked. We have to haul our trash in groceries and use our tractor to get supplies to the barn for our horses. I cannot go to horse shows or lessons because I cannot get my horses off of the property. And there is no emergency access. If my house were to catch on fire, no one could reach us. Not to mention this is a safety hazard. At night, there is no lighting on the road and we risk encounters with wildlife. As a taxpaying citizen, you have denied me my right as outlined in the 14th amendment of the United States Constitution. No state can deprive a person of their property without due process of law. It is in violation of this amendment to block access to our properties by any means. Whether by water, a causeway, or both. If the plan is to raise Miller Road, it will cost us $150,000 to access this modified road. The rainy season is four months away. Hurricane season is 4 and a half months away. If the flow does not cease, the residents could lose their homes forever. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you for your comments. Risa Linton? >> Good morning. My name is Reese. I am also part of the Miller Lake group here. Four of my five acres are still underwater 90+ days after the storm that finished us off. This has been a problem that has been brewing since at least 2017 when a valve was put in across the city that started the flow into our closed basin. The request is the same as my fellow neighbors. And that is to stop the unnatural flow into our basin. I want to remind everyone that there is enough of us. We are desperate and scrappy and we are not going anywhere. Please stop the unnatural flow. >> Thank you. John and Nicholson? >> John Nicholson, Daytona Beach. Just an aside, to build on their comments I do not recall the Council, I come to several of your meetings. Nobody has domains their property to use for the commercial property in Orange city. I do not recall you doing a take permit nor any reason for them to understand that you would use their property. You did not buy or lease it. You are using it for water storage. I believe that you owe them funding. You either buy the properties out or you lease it from them. If I were them, I would sue you for the use of their land over the last 90 days. Secondly, with regard to Jeff, Matt, and Troy, I watch you guys. I see the good, bad, and ugly. What the public does not understand is that the makeup of his council is that you have a former city manager, commissioner, state representative, department head and employee of the county. You have a lawyer on this board and a gentleman that was in construction. You have a great makeup when things come before you. You could see everything. And this is a great makeup. And I don't think people understand that. Secondly, you talk about leases. Why do you guys lease so much property. At what point can you look at this? I wish you would when you talk about ways to cut funding. Can we move this to unused businesses? Or share properties? Just to keep the leases down. The University group was here and they could not see the first half of the meeting. The staff stood across us and there was a wall that they could not see. The wall stood there had I not gotten up and said please move, they could not see anything. I am asking that the stock be cognizant that when they take pictures and stand, they block the audiences view. If they put up anything, you block the audiences view. Also with regard to Daytona Beach, going through the E zone that they started 20 years ago, it asks for cooperation with the County and I ask you to look at cooperating with Daytona Beach. >> Thank you for the comments. The before we move to the next part of the meeting, I cannot sit here and listen to the cries of our neighbors. I know we are not ignoring them. But I would like to ask the County manager, is there any update on Miller Lake and St. John's water management District. >> We have been working with St. John's in the city. The pumping continues. It has been continuous. As far as St. John's, we have a report with the permit that is in question. And they say that the gate is shut on the side. I have asked my team to confirm that. We are looking for a permanent and long-term solution. Ben Bartlett has been working with the Department of Transportation and we have been looking at ways to remove the water to other locations so we do not have to be dependent. We will look at some of the pockets that are around there. If we could get some capacity in the lake, we could probably dry up some of the pockets around the lake. Work is being done on the problem every day. >> Where is the gate located? Because I was just there and you can see the water still running? >> There is water running because you have groundwater infiltration. >> I will have to ask you to not have public participation during this discussion. >> Ben Bartlett, public works director. I'm very familiar with the system. The situation there is you have what we refer to as the Wawa pond. Which has been modified through development that exists next to the Royal Oaks business office center. Then you have the big lots pond. Back in tropical storm Fay, these ponds overflowed. The water staged up in the parking lot and then over Tremont Road. It from the big lots pond it flows through a pipe that the DOT has installed when they constructed 1792. During tropical storm Fay, there was so much water that it cut a hole in 1792. Something similar happened during Milton. This time it cut a hole through Tremont Road. Then from the big lots pond it cut a hole in 1792. During these large events, this is how the water flows. We had a study done after tropical storm Fay. We tried to analyze what was going on. But what they found was all the water during the large events flows toward Miller Lake. There were homes around Miller Lake that were too low for these types of events. We attempted to acquire what is referred to as the horse farm. We excavated the property and created 20+ acres of storage in the pond. Getting back to the Royal Oak center. The Royal Oak is currently in the city it is not unincorporated. It was unincorporated in the 80s. but has since annexed into the city. They had set up a pump for the parking lot because it was low. They were routinely pumping back into the big lots pond. The water management district went to them and said we need to get a permit if you want to continue to operate this pump. They requested a permit through the water management district. Keep in mind that when we have all of these large rain events, the latter stages of through Tremont ground. During the permitting process, water management district reached out to the County and requested a letter of no objection based on the fact that according to the engineers, that we are doing permitting on behalf of the Royal Oaks shopping center. But there should be an additional amount of water. The fact that the county has created 20+ feet of water is something that we had no objection to the issuance of the permit based on the fact that the county had created this additional water which was taking up two acres. 10 percent of this addition is being taken up by this water. And that is the permit that is being referenced by the residents. As far as the gate, there is a control structure between the Wawa pond in the Royal Oaks shopping center. It is a control structure that goes into the Royal Oaks shopping center. At the time, was a pipe that goes into the Wawa pond. That pipe has a sluice gate which they can open and close. The gate was installed to protect the Royal Oaks shopping center. For some reason, it was opened. I personally went out there with staff from orange city. And the owners of the Royal Oak shopping center said that the structure is on private property. They agreed to close it and they have. The water that is moving into Miller Lake is because of the drainage system being an exfiltration system. The groundwater is high and then it is flowing into the pipes of the big lots pond. It goes into a pipe that has been in place since it was constructed. All of the infrastructure that I am describing is either maintained by different agencies for its private systems. The groundwater difference. You have groundwater flowing into a pipe into the big lots pond. One area is higher than the groundwater on the other. We are seeing locations throughout the county where you are still seeing an increase in closed space and type places where the groundwater works its way and moves a lot slower. And a lot of these old basins, we have standing water higher than normal. This was a very wet year combined with bad infrastructure. Our goal is to work with the state. We are working on a solution. There is infrastructure that is already in place to try and set up a system to remove some of this water. We wanted to eventually go there to try and get it down. >> Councilman Robbins? >> REPRESENTATIVE ROBINS: Just out of respect for the folks here that live on Miller Road and everyone else, I think it is appropriate that we give staff direction to bring us back some possible remedies that have been identified in the near future. And to be very target specific that way the flood victims know that we are working towards a solution. Just to bring additional information for a better conversation when we have it scheduled. >> Councilman Santiago? >> REPRESENTATIVE SANTIAGO: Thank you for the update. The only thing that stands for me is I think one of the ideas that one of the citizens shared about the big lots side, should we consider how it should be reengineered to prevent it from coming under the road, I visited the site a couple times. All of the water is designed to go down that way because of the way that the system is. It is probably the singular worst place to put it. But if we could consider that in the work that we are doing, there could be an opportunity to reengineer on the big lots side and some not water up to the connecting facilities. I'm not putting you on the spot. I think we should at least consider the option. >> We will consider all options when the engineers look at it. I have to emphasize that this is all water that is in the basin. That is why it was permitted by St. John's who is the state agency that controls the lakes. That is what they're basing it on. But the water was trying to get in there. The key is diverting the water. And being able to move the water faster than it goes in. And once it brings 20 inches, there is no pump around to handle that. As Mr. Bartlett referred to, it's not just here. We have seen this in several places around the county. It will require Lake management ahead of time. And by the way it has not been allowed for many years. Because the water is also your drinking water that is going into the system. They want water held up at a certain level. I think there has been a change at the district. But it has been very difficult to get permitted systems that would allow us to draw significantly ahead of the storm. >> It will also take acceptance from some Lake property owners. To see that the lakes could possibly even go down lower. It was eight – 10 years ago. I think the city went through a lawsuit for the exact opposite. We were mad that the lake had staged back up. And that was brought back down and they went to St. John's and they were forced to stop removing water. It is a complex issue. We are working on it. And I have been down there for many occasions. I have been here for 30 years. This is the worst. But it also goes along with the largest rainfall that we have had. If you look at historical pictures of Miller Lake and pictures like the book that was presented today, it was previously Miller pond. There are hundred year oak trees dying. Something is very different now. I think I recall that the permit says that we agreed to if there is any adverse effects that it can be stopped. And then it needs to be looked at. Is that not true? >> There is an adverse effect. We need to deal with this perhaps as an agenda item. But they don't have that long. I don't know if we have two weeks. We are pumping in and out at the same time. I do not know if we could have a special meeting or even just have the County manager discussed this today with St. John's. I am assuming that they have a brand-new director. Someone who is in charge of the board? >> Yes. The board does not handle the day-to-day. But they are aware. Mike register is the executive director. And we have already gotten there management specialists. Campo is in charge of this all over the district. They are aware. And ultimately, the permit is held by the city. They are monitoring the situation. We will see what they feel needs to be done. And again, we are working on solutions. We will have to concur as well as the city. >> Also when you look at historical aerials, for the most part, the lake has been dry. But in a similar event to Milton, the one measuring stick that we had was tropical storm Fay. And it was a very similar amount of rain over two days versus Milton which was one. You saw the same amount of occurrences and where did you try to go? It went to where it historically has been. I have looked at the historical aerials. These have all been there going way back. It's like a cascade of bowls that has eventually worked its way to Miller Lake. The one event that was most similar to Milton is Fay. And during Fay, we had a very similar response in the basin. In the water staged up very similarly to the point where it was the impetus that looking at what we could do. Knowing that this kind of event could occur with creating the additional capacity in the lake that without it would have led to a worse situation. >> What year was Fay? >> 08. >> I don't know what this looks like in 08. In the corner of my eye I see that it was not as high during Fay. >> We had a study commenced that showed the documented water levels during and after Fay. This talked about water being over Miller Road. I'm not saying that they are identical, but they are very similar. To me the evidence is 1792. You don't see state roads get cut in half by water very often. >> With all due respect, I think they don't know where to put the water. So this is their solution that they see. And it is causing an adverse effect. St. John's, Orange city, and Volusia will have to come up with a different plan. Because we are taking people's properties. >> Just to follow-up, I do plan on having another town hall. We had a basic overview of the flooding. But we will have more. We want to have more specialized meetings focusing on one area. I would like to have a town hall just about Miller Lake. So that we can hopefully have more updates. We are waiting on a lot of studies to come back. I do want to have another town hall. But I am planning on trying to organize another town hall just for Miller Lake. >> Councilman Johansson? >> I guess this goes to George. Is there any merit to council writing a letter or making a motion to send to the governing bodies who are responsible? These folks are coming to us and I am hearing that it is not us. But it is St. John's. But they are not going there. Would it benefit us to send a letter to them? Do you think that between the director at St. John's, and the secretary at FDO T and the city manager that you are getting the time and effort required? >> We could send that letter. I would say that we are working with them now. I would have to refer to been for if he feels like they are being responsive. I have heard of no pushback from them. I believe it was the Department of Transportation that brokered the deal with the city. Because they actually have a grievance in place for their water. And that is what allowed us to get the department into the system. Then, do you want to take a crack with first? >> We went to go meet with the property owner and the gate was closed. I do understand the concern with the flow that is occurring now. What I have said, I believe I set it on Mr. Dempsey's town hall. What I think is something needs to be looked at with some sort of permit condition for when the water is at a certain point. I think that is the answer. >> That solves the next problem. It doesn't sound like bringing in a bunch of water trucks will do anything. So is there any, if cost is not an issue, is there a short-term solution to get these folks to be able to walk in their backyards? >> When this first started, the issue was that it was not just there. Everyone was trying to find a place to put the water without harming someone else. What I was pretty consistent about saying was that given the pump sizes available and the scope and size of Miller Lake, it is a simple volume calculation. We are looking at about an inch a day. If we get some rain, it can change. But as Mr. Bechtold mentioned, when it comes to pumping, it is a viable solution. But it is not something that moves a ton of water versus a gravity pipe. We have been in constant communication with the water management district in the city. The only viable place to put water is in the DOT system. We are moving it as fast as we can to try and get the water down as quick as possible. If money is not an option, we could build a giant force main and move more water. But it's also important to understand how the water is getting there. It's going from Miller Lake to a DOT pipe to a pond that then gets pumped. So we have a constraint system all the way down to where our final destination is. And it is a very large expense if we were going to try and speed that up. >> So we are stuck with what we have in the short term? >> Yes. Long term, having a system that could create capacity and then move the water out afterwards is the ideal. >> Is Miller Lake going down? Or is it maintaining? >> It has been going down. >> Do we have any anticipation on when it will be back to regular? >> Months. >> REPRESENTATIVE KENT: So these people that came and spoke to us today, the number 91 jumps out in my head. Now I'm hearing a couple more months before things get back to normal. A quick question for you. The water that is pumped to Deberry, what do they do with it? >> It goes into a borrow pit. It is a large hole in the ground essentially. >> So when it is dry, there is nothing we can do except hope that God relieves the drought? But in this situation, then cannot always give us good news. I don't like your answer. But it's not your fault. But your lives have been radically changed. What do we have to do as an elected body. I don't care if we have to contract with Thompson pumps. We need to get 12 times the pumps and make it 12 inches per day. Who do we have to get approval from. Because all drains lead to the ocean. We don't want to flood anyone else. But what do we have to do pump considerable millions of gallons of water per day out of Miller Pond a.k.a. Miller Lake. What do we have to do to get this into the St. John's River? >> Right now, we can't go to the river. >> I think we should be able to. >> We would have to get permission from the water management District to pump to the river. We would have to run multiple large temporary pipes for miles. Or we could run it due West. >> What I love about this radical idea is it already has your mind thinking about it. What do we have to do to get this water out of the St. John's? I think that this may not be viable. But what do we have to do to make something like that happen? >> I think you need to let us deal with it with the engineers. You are going to start talking money in the millions and then you have to ask the question about the value of homes that are there versus making the engineering feat that you are talking about. Like I said, we are working on a solution now. Ben has been talking to the Department of Transportation and looking at alternate routes so I don't have to go all the way through the system. We just can't have a giant pump at one and in a small pond on the other. The solution is to eventually get it to the St. John's River. But it has to be in a way where the system can handle it. It is a mammoth system. And by the way, we did do a different type of pump years ago. But where we pumped before now has a business subdivision. Because they did pump over the hill for one of the previous storms. He is talking about Faye because that is what he is familiar with. I go back to Gordon. Which we will see later was in the 1900s. >> I know it's not lost on you. But 91 days. >> There's 91 days for a ton of closed basins. >> And there are issues on the east side as well. But they did not just show up today. I appreciate that it sounds like we are in the process. But the process will take a longer time which is what none of us want to do. >> Please, no public participation. Were you finished? If we completely shut off the water, where does a pilot? >> It would stage up in the Big Lots pond where it would go over 1792 into Miller Lake. >> Deberry is pumping into the spirit right? >> They spent upwards of 30 million+ dollars. They received some grants and everything. And they ran into the same issue. Which is not being able to pump to the river. So they acquired a large borrow pit to pump two during these events. The borrow pit actually filled up. >> The rate at which the water is going in. >> How long is Deberry willing to do that? >> Obviously will monitor the level. But we want to make sure that we are not overfilling it. >> What about the acreage directly behind Miller Road? >> That is privately owned. There is a TV antenna. And then further west is property owned by the power company. There is a railroad track and then eventually you get to the river. What would happen if we pumped it to this acreage? >> The way that the topography is, there is a low point at the southwest corner of the property. Those homes are where the water is now. That is a solution that I spoke of before that we used in 1997. >> We can't because they built a subdivision. It predates the country club. >> Whenever we pump, we still have to get emergency what silly authorization. That location was the first location that we looked at to move the water. We were both in agreement that sending water there truly risked flooding homes. Because there was water at the back of everyone's properties. >> There is a lot of undeveloped acreage factor. What you're saying if we pump their. >> The topography is that it would flow down to the point that we are talking about. It's like the hail. >> So whatever we do, we flood somebody. >> The County manager keeps referring to the engineers. I thought engineers from St. John's or from the state of Florida. >> The water management. >> I think this is the next logical step. If we are not filling up this borrow pit, then let's pump as rapidly as we can. Then it was Councilman Santiago that reference to the big lots. I think we will have to buy that. Councilman Robbins? >> REPRESENTATIVE ROBINS: I think it's a wise decision to support Mr. Johansen's letter of motivation. We are expressing our cities that is responsible for this. To have staff come back with several options and give them an opportunity to be methodical and collective about this. There are multiple agencies and jurisdictions. We could have them come back at the end of February. With an update of what they have. In the options are a game plan going forward. >> Who is the letter going to? >> We have a motion for the letter. Is there a second? >> A motion by Danny Robbins in a second by David Santiago. All in favor of writing and sending the letter, say aye. >> Aye. >> Any opposed? Okay. Did you have anything else? Did we want to have staff come back? I know there is a lot of frustration with the public. Could we give them an update? Maybe the first meeting in March. Could we come back with some options here? This is a very complex and costly initiative. And I want to do this right. >> We can bring some cost back. Often times there is a cost benefit analysis involved. That would be appropriate. The letter here, even in February or March, I think it worries them. Do they have that much time? Could we have a special on flooding could we get anything more there? >> It's not just a matter of hooking up a bunch more pumps. We can reach out and see. >> The pipe that goes under 17? >> No. Are you talking about pumping more water out of the lake? >> We can reach out to the agency and see if they have any plans to address that as far as modifications to the Royal Oak system. Then when it comes to pumping more water, then we are restrained by the size of the pipe. >> I think it is a good idea. I am just worried about the timeframe. Granted, I do understand the predicament. Thank God we are going into the dry season. I want this just like you. We want to resolve this as quickly and methodically and make every move count. If we want to rush this, I can almost assure you that it will be a disaster. We need to rush this. And we need to have the appropriate municipalities on board. To make sure that we are making every step. I too have confidence with the moratorium discussion. But can we get some information back in 30 days or less. I think we could come up with some good suggestions on where to move forward. >> Councilman Dempsey? >> REPRESENTATIVE DEMPSEY: Could we explore the possibility of acquiring the aerial tower to the West? There is also a large tract to the north. >> It is upheld. >> And there is no way? >> I can look at it. But we can see if there is property that could be conducive. >> Acquiring property is key and a lot of solutions. We are talking about Miller Lake. We have. >> I do not know that the income is around that area. It has to be used in low income areas. But we can take a look. >> Okay. Thank you. All that I can say to the people that have come in, everybody up here has heard you and we continue to push. I don't know if time is on your side. But we need to get it resolved. Thank you for coming in. Okay. We will move to item 4. approval of the rest of the agenda. >> Moved to approve. >> David Santiago loose to approve the agenda. The second by vice chair Matt Reinhart. All in favor say Aye. >> Aye. >> Any opposed? The motion carries seven TO 0. Does anyone have an item that they would like to poll for discussion or vote. >> Poll for discussion a and B. >> Move approval of the consent agenda as proposed? >> Second Johansen. >> We have a motion to approve the agenda by Councilman Kent. In a second by Councilman Johansen. We will discuss items a and B. any opposed? >> Thank you. Just because a constituent product. These are revenue leases. >> These are both revenue leases. The first one is for the Gateway Center that we just purchased. I think when we first talked about it, that we would probably be at about a year. But we had someone working with us. He secured someone from the hibachi grill to move into a vacant space that is in terrible condition. It has not been occupied in about five – 10 years. We are giving them a break on the rent. We are charging them a very good rate for them to move in. Which covers all of our expenses ongoing. >> So both a and B are bringing revenue at $100,000 per year? >> Absolutely. >> Thank you very much. >> Councilmember Santiago, I am glad you brought it up. You mentioned that we should be making money. It will be 17 years before we recoup all the money. But then it starts making money for our taxpayers. We are now trying to help with the landlords. The way that this is approved is that this is a five-year lease. Afterwards it gives the County manager an opportunity to approve two more five-year leases. It is nothing against George. I just think it would be good to put ice on it. >> Would you like to make a motion. >> We did approve this. But after the five years I would like this to come to County Council for them to put ice on it and give it their seal of approval for another five years. I think 15 years before this comes back is quite the long time. Is it okay if I make a motion to reconsider? >> I will make a motion to reconsider item A. >> Second. >> We will get back to item A. >> The motion is by Troy Kent. The second is by David Cynthia to reconsider that at the end of the lease, do you want this for any lease? >> I would like for this to go with all of them. George is a smart guy. He would make sure that all other leases that would come back. If we can get approval for the reconsideration, then I will work with the language to get it fixed up so that it can come back before this counsel. >> I think it is a seven year term with 25 year extensions. >> So it would be coming back at the end of seven years and then council would approve it for the next five. >> You could just have the motion approved and then it would automatically come back before the Council for lease renewal. >> We just needed approval to reconsider. But thank you. I do appreciate it. >> The first step is to reprove the consideration. Don, did you have a question on that? All in favor of reconsidering item a say Aye. >> Aye. >> Any opposed? >> I do not know who is in charge of the contract per se. Do we have anything in here to prevent mechanics liens from being placed on the property during the build out? My biggest fear is you get these guys with no money and they have no stake in the business, and then what they do is they start hiring subs. It subject to a lien. >> We have the general language. You cannot place a county lien against the property though. >> Okay. So we make sure that the suppliers are at will? >> We are dealing directly with construction projects. There is language in there that they have if someone does not pay their subs. Then they have a way of coming back to us to help us make through the bonding process. I will make a motion to approve item A. we talked about approving item a in the cleanest way that you mentioned was. >> Removing the language and allowing the manager to approve next term. >> Approve item a with the manager being able to approve the subsequent terms. >> So by function it comes straight to the Council? >> Yes. >> The motion is made by Troy Kent in the second by Councilman Johansen. To remove the language allowing it for the County manager to approve the County Counsel. >> All in favor say Aye. >> Aye. >> The motion carries seven – zero. >> Item 6. amendment to the volunteer firefighters pension plan to provide for plan termination and a future transfer of benefit payments to insurance companies. >> Good morning County Counsel. I am the chief financial officer. Before you is the result of a lot of work in coordination but I do believe makes sense for the county. This is also before your pension advisory board with the concurrence that such plan makes. The membership has also significantly declined. The plan has a substantial surplus. The surplus could be accessed for fire rescue district purposes. We have some information on the steps that we have taken today. We have the amendment of the plan to have a benefit freeze. All active members were notified. We are not taking an action today that we are not already aware of. We provide for the full vesting of all participants. There is a couple other plan amendments here. One of the key things that the advisory board as well as staff were considering through this process is protecting the beneficiaries. They were volunteering throughout their tenure with the county. And we want to make sure that we honor what they were expecting to receive. One of these ways is if we do transfer this liability and that the beneficiaries will give their payments no matter what. We will follow the federal due diligence requirements even though we would not have to. Then there is the state guaranteed Association. They would be completely backed up by the state guaranteed Association. If it is approved, this would be participant communication. The advisory board has already referred with the benefit packages. And it would explain the benefit options. The decision would be to I want to take my benefits now? Or do I want to continue to wait and file with the insurance company when I decide it is time? Because your benefits do change if you take it earlier. They would have all the same options just through the insurance company. This helps with the process and what it would be. There is a list of prequalified firms. I think it is 30+ for the insurance companies. Those that would be providing bids. One of the key parts is during the transfer, because of the time sensitive nature of pricing and insurance products, the actuaries told us that when they submit these bids, it will require a 24 hour turnaround. So what we have proposed is that we will schedule an advisory board meeting to occurred the day after the bids are due. And that this be delegated to the authority to choose between the insurance companies. The final steps are the insurance carriers. So the insurance carrier with them take on the payments that are still acquired from the maintaining membership. We want to make sure that there is no double payments or anything like that. And then the surplus to the fire rescue fund would be the last step. For the full return to occur, there was something that was added on where we had to continue forward to this meeting. We explored what I thought would be an administrative step of selling stocks, I thought it would be easy. But it did become a little bit more difficult. In our current holder which is Wells Fargo under a safekeeping arrangement, they do not have the ability under the safekeeping arrangement to sell these assets. There also not in the business of doing active management of these kinds of plans. So they will not help us plan these assets. We do have a consulting firm that helps us advise with this. They have provided us with an extra resolution so that we can transfer these assets from Wells Fargo into Fidelity for the sole purpose of them having Fidelity who does work in this space. It is not in the slides, but it is in the additional agenda summary. The staff recommendation is to approve the plan amendments in the advisory board has supported this recommendation is assisted with several steps along the way. And with that, I will take any questions. >> Councilman Santiago? >> Not. But a motion to approve. >> Councilman Santiago makes a motion to approve. The second was by Councilman Johansen. Are there any questions? >> And that includes a delegation to the advisory correct? >> It is codified in the plan amendment. I wanted you to be aware that that was going on. >> Any other questions or comments? All in favor say Aye. >> Aye. >> Any opposed? The motion carries seven – zero. The county attorney and the County manager annual performance evaluation. >> And moved to postpone. >> We do have public comment if you guys would like to hear this before you begin? Why do we do that? John Nicholson. Public comment on item 7? >> John Nicholson, Daytona Beach site. >> I have dealt with this when the Whitehall was remodeled. It is good that the public has an opportunity to hear what you think of our staff. Having gone through several numerous staff members, we have heard people, and Linda asked George. And whatever their particular problem is, they extrapolate to the entire county. But when one looks at our attorney and our County manager, if you look at the entire county, it could not be better. So as part of the public comes occasionally and sits in the corner and watches what's going on, I think we are at our best. I don't ask for a very large raise. I think a tiny one would be good for the budget. But accolades are definitely warranted. So thank you. >> Thank you. Councilman Santiago. >> Councilman Johansen. >> I will entrust both the attorney and the manager or under my comments here. Then we can sit down with George and Mike separately. I think that we have had some wonderful leadership in George this year. There are some things that we commented on last year that we asked him to take on more and be a little bit more responsive or give us weekly updates. To keep us more informed. Not that he wasn't before, but we got the hang of it the first year and then said help us out here! All of these things came to fruition. I have had much more philosophical conversation with George, Suzanne, and Mike during the year. And I very much appreciate that. I would say that some of you have changed my mind in many cases. So I do appreciate the conversation. I think that some things came up this year that put staff in a pressurized cooker if you will to get things done. And they know it's hard to get accomplished. We just had one today. You can see the elected officials saying can't we do something? But nothing can be done quickly. I appreciate you taking it on. I know there are big shoulders. But it still hurts every once in a while when you can see that the satisfaction. But I do appreciate the time and energy that you spend in getting stuff like that done. I forgot to send you the comments here. But most everything is high fours and fives. Mike, thank you very much for those little tweaks that you did for me personally. My idiosyncrasies with legal and in general, what council has asked of you. You have always been responsive as far as litigation. I get frequent phone calls from you. And I truly enjoy reading the results from your team. I'm sad to say, I hope Laura Coleman is listening from where she is now. I am sad that part of your team has disappeared. But you brought some new people on. The one thing that I appreciate as every once in a while you see a new face and they are knee-deep in the projects. We seem to know what they're talking about right away. I know it's hard to keep a team together when you are training people to be the best that they can be. And the best that they can be is not here anymore. We keep doing that. I truly do appreciate this. One of the things that I constantly ask your team to do is provide us with all options. Even the ones that you utterly hate. I know that you make it known to us with what you want us to do. But sometimes we don't want to do it. Sometimes we want to do something probably bad. And thank you for trying to change her mind. You provide the option so that we now everything that we could do. We have had some challenging issues. I'm not saying that they have gone away. But they are definitely on the back burner. So I do appreciate all of the work that you and Russ and Kevin in the trenches have done this year. I truly appreciate it. So thank you. >> Thank you. Councilman Kent? >> Thank you German. I was surprised two years ago and I learned that our County manager and attorney did not have an instrument to evaluate these with. I do appreciate the instrument that we use now. I think it's beneficial to not only you, but to the public on the Council that holds you accountable for the work that you have done. And it gives you a snapshot of what happened last year from your bosses perspective and where all of us are hoping to go in the future. Counsel, I will share both of these and then I will give them to the clerk to ask that they be submitted into the record. Mr. record mode, I will go over yours first. The scale is one through five. Three is meeting expectations. Leadership I have you at four. Planning and organization I have enough water. Job knowledge, five, adaptability, five. Interpersonal relationships, five. Community relationships four. Communication skills with the Council, five. With the press, four. Access, five. Activities, five. Residence, business, and the general public at three. Council member observations. George is doing a great job as our County manager. The weekly briefings help keep the Council up to date with the abilities to put the right people in the right positions. This past year we have come more efficient. Any other comments? I would like to see you hold quarterly meetings with the community in different locations throughout our County. Mr. Dyer, your readings are one through five one is satisfactory, to improvement needed, three meets expectations, for exceeds expectations and five is outstanding. With legal competency, there is a five. Mike's ability to find answers to everything involving County government is incredible. I have you at five. The ability to make good decisions quickly benefits Volusia County. Management and department. Mike puts the right people in the right places to run his department. Management of litigation claims, five. Mike and his team show strength in this area. Management style is five. Mike is professional and fair. Interaction with the County manager, five. Mike and George work very well together. This is a huge positive. And that is a big piece to this. Like the chairman mentioned earlier today, I am so appreciative of a new fresh start. If you have ever worked with a manager and an attorney that do not get along, then you have to make a change. I'm so pleased that you have a positive, healthy, and professional working relationship. Mike, I have yet to five. Mike helps foster a positive relationship with me. I've heard Mr. Johansson say I appreciate those phone calls. Community relations and ethics. Mike's ethics right 5+. I would like to see you and your office hold quarterly informational sessions for our residents. Your ethics are a 5+. A communications, five. Mike is a great communicator who gets me information very quickly. I have you at a four. You continue to work with our cities and state to foster positive relationships. Mike is a hard worker and smart attorney. We are fortunate to have him leading our department. Your department is bombarded daily. You do a wonderful job of working with Volusia County. I will give these to the clerk. I'm assuming at the end of everyone's, we can talk about compensation. So I will be ready to discuss that as well. >> Thank you Mr. chair and thank you Troy for being brave. I thought it would be long. I was going to give him a three if you read every line. It will be simple for me. George, is almost repetitive. We could just rewind the tape. In my 20+ years but serving the public in different capacities, I can honestly say that this is the best team that I have ever worked with. Were not perfect. But the best team. I don't bug you much. Because I'm very confident in your leadership and how you run the County. I respect the role that we play. It is your job to do the daily operations and keep us informed which you do. If I ever have a question, you are accessible. I have no issues with you and your team. And that extends to all of your people. I appreciate the latitude that you give us as well. You allow us the latitude to talk to the department heads and we need to know where the boundary lies. Where you would need to go to George to get things done. The conversation is always great and it gives easy and quick access. We do not want to bombard you. So thank you for that. I'm also scared of when I get the Friday evening calls, I'm like oh gosh. It's probably something not good. You have been giving me really great news with those Friday calls. The same thing goes for you and your team Mike. I have extended to them without your authority. We truly have an excellent legal team. And I would encourage other municipalities to reach out to you and your team. To get some advice. And they have done that. At the end of the day, we are all Volusia County. So your team on the legal side, I enjoy our claims meetings and conversations that we have. It's always interesting to see how your team is fighting for our County constituents to settle claims. Sometimes a weird claims. But our team in the legal department, and the attorney is laughing over there. I wanted the constituents to know that they fight for preserving our treasury as much as possible. Great job and great team. I could not be any happier with anyone else. So thank you Troy for holding me accountable as well. >> This is the first time that I get to say this. Vice chair Matt Reinhart. >> I was glad that I was not alone. As I was going to get the hook from that side. A couple things. Mr. Reinhart, I never would have said anything. But it is a new year so I guess we will start it! >> VICE CHAIR REINHART: I think this is a wonderful opportunity. You are getting to see County government from swearing in to making decisions about tough topics. Listening to very concerned citizens about legitimate issues. And an evaluation process or a County manager in a County attorney. This is a wonderful opportunity. I'm sure the teacher is thinking of ways to make a test about this. I taught government for two years at faith homeschool Academy and I taught American government in history I took them to the city commission meeting. It was a test right afterwards. But I think this is a wonderful opportunity. I commend you for taking part in all of this. I do not want to get away from the topic at hand. The first thing, George and I have a longer history than anyone on this counsel. George was in public works and I was in law enforcement. Obviously, he was appointed to this position because of how well he did. And I appreciate you. I read the job description which was so brave. The County manager serves the pleasure of the County Counsel, execute the policies with daily operations of government and so on. Much of what I'm going to mention will have to do with the successes in the two years that I've known you. We all have many successes. But where George will agree, that success is these people right here. The people that your research and higher. The same thing applies to the attorneys that you bring on. That is your strength. Making you successful. We had to promote a person to Sergeant, Lieutenant, or Captain. You want the best possible people to make you look good. And I truly commend you for that. Everything from preparing an annual budget to setting up Council agendas. Overseeing 3000 personnel. 2500? Call me a liar for 500. Overseeing the hundreds of structures and I commend you for the hard work that you do as well. The fact that you have to celebrate Ben's birthday almost every day. That is a job in itself. So happy birthday Ben! I commend you. What a success that we have had their. Moving Lisa Lewis was a very smart move. What you have done in community and the only thing that I disagree with is one person. I will make Karen be a Florida State fan. I commend you with the hard work that you have done. Unlike you, I get these phone calls from legal. You are a little bit more positive. It was the holidays when I got used to the good phone call. So thank you for all that you do. I truly think that we will handle this issue. It is a priority of all of us up here. I commend you for a job well done. If I had to rate, it would be in the four – five range. And I look forward to continuing to work with you. >> CHAIR BROWER: Councilman Dempsey? >> REPRESENTATIVE DEMPSEY: Mike, I think I knew you before you were even County attorney. We all go way back. I think before he became a County attorney. I just knew them as one of your peers. With opposing each other in cases and seeing him at work. They were both fine attorneys before even becoming County attorney. Prices on George for hiring you. And you for hiring whoever else. Anytime we have a question for the legal issue, it's like they always have an answer. Once in a while you can go back and even surprises me. I think you give information promptly and accurately. I get those Friday afternoon phone calls as well. I'm wondering if I screwed something up or if it is of sorts. Anytime it looks like we're going into a hot topic, I don't even think we have to call. It just calls and says that he will give me the briefing unsolicited. I really appreciate that. Just to make sure that I am on point. A lot of these judicial things are very quick to point out what our roles are supposed to be in the function as opposed to just being a General Council person. I cannot give you anything but full accolades. In George, I may rebel you there. I have also known George since the 1900s. And we have golf together. I have also known him. We did things as families together. And then it kind of fell apart. But George, you juggle a lot of chainsaws. And what I am so impressed with is the way that you always have an answer. I will ask you about certain things and it's not like I even get back to you. Or you have a, B, C, D, and E. I am just so impressed with how you were always prompted for an answer. You are always working behind the scenes. I know for a fact that you're working behind the scenes and I'm very impressed with that. So I have nothing but praising for the County attorney and County manager. >> I think that so far has gone the longest. >> Before I recognize Councilmember Robbins, then Troy Kent is up again. >> REPRESENTATIVE KENT: If everyone was finished, I just wanted to talk about compensation. >> Councilman Robbins, that you want to talk? >> I typically take care of accolades with stuff behind the scenes. I truly support everything that my colleagues are saying. You have a great team since day one. You have always helped us execute our messages. And you cover a lot of the topics that we promised to our constituents that we would address. Without you guys, we would not be here once or twice. Just know that we all have our different styles. But I truly appreciate everything that you do for rest. We support each other both ways pipe. Like Jake said, sometimes we don't always like the answer. But we always appreciate a straight one. I don't know how County staff does not need a therapist sometimes. But, I know sometimes I feel like I do. So I can only imagine how you feel sometimes. Thank you for everything. I don't get any calls on Friday. I don't know what that's about. But I will work on that. So thank you. >> Mike, please call him tomorrow! >> Make sure it is 5:30 or 6:00 p.m.. just so I don't feel like I'm the only special one. >> At the risk of reversing what I started with this morning, with starting the new year together, I don't want this to make that happen. But I will take some different tact. I must do what Councilman Robbins does and use the same instrument that you used. That becomes public record. So I will do that each of you. Mike, you and I have a meeting already set up for tomorrow. For future council to discuss. And that is one of the things that I wanted to talk about. Mike, I wanted to tell you that there is no doubt that you have made your office at my disposal. I ask you frequently for meetings with constituents and we almost always need an attorney there. There has not been an attorney on your staff that I can go to unannounced. I think the promotion of Russ Brown to your assistant county attorney was one of the best moves that you made. I truly enjoyed working with Russ. I feel like I always get straight answers from him. For me, there is three things that I want to mention that I would like to see improvement on. And this comes from some really tough things. This may be my perception. But I would like to see you work as hard to protect the rights of the people in Volusia County and their property rights as you do to prevent lawsuits. As a County chair, I get every lawsuit that comes in here. They handed to me and I take it to your office. We get sued numerous times a week. So I do understand what you have to do there. And that one of your main jobs is to prevent us from being sued. Bert J Harris comes to mind. I really want to see you be more aggressive on protecting our constituents private property rights. Again, perception. I will take an effort to make this happen. I would like to see you work as hard with me on items that I personally place on the agenda as chair as you do for any other item. The perception that I get, and we need to reverse this if that sometimes when those items come before us, it feels like you have worked against me. And I don't want to have that cloud between us. Probably the most serious thing that I think we need to work on is new business to Volusia County. I feel like the long drawn out process makes it so that we could not have done a lot of the work that we needed. We have lost a great business out there. And it appeared to me that there was decisions made to actually act as the prosecuting attorney against them that was not required. Not really disturbs me. George, you and I have always worked well together. There are several things that I would like to bring up. I will bring up the things that you and I need to work on. The first one is you with the Council. I think you know this. I want to see the comprehensive stormwater plan that includes maintenance and the things that you can do. You can make the impossible happen. Because I talked to you and the director of St. John's and he is very clear with me. We don't know where else to put water. But I want to see a plan that shows where we are planning to put water and what equipment we have. We need a comprehensive stormwater plan that is clear to all of us. I would also like to see better oversight of our various departments. You and I will discuss this. Specifically, code enforcement and public works. And here is why. I have never detected this before. In the four years that I have been here, you work very well with your directors. In your directors carry out what you tell them to do. In my presence without question. I am sure that you have serious discussions with them. I think that what I have detected in the last year that I've never seen before and I think it could be dangerous if I am correct. I think it results from the stress of what I am dealing with with flooding and storms. There seems to be a cultural developing and code enforcement and public works where the victims of our flooding have become the enemies. I hear things said about people that I think are just out of line. I will bring it up when it happens. But I would really like to see that culture of treating our constituents. My constituents are your constituents with the respect that they deserve. When they are losing homes and suffering, we heard it this morning with Miller Lake. They have been here numerous times but we still need to treat them with respect and care. And I am detecting that sometimes it's not happening. And they are being blamed. And I will sit down with the two of you in the next week. With the same written instrument that Troy used. I don't know if everyone's using that or not. But it hits everything that we need to do. I feel like I need to bring out my greatest concern so that you can be prepared. And that we can have frank conversations about this. Troy, I know you will bring up compensation. For the reasons that I have stated for both of them, I am going to be a no vote on compensation or increases. That takes us back to Troy Kent. >> REPRESENTATIVE KENT: Think your chairman. Before I do this, for me, I don't think you need to apologize about going against what you said. I will say, what you said was quite appropriate. All of us are public elected officials. Our employees are public employees. And this is what is supposed to happen. They get public evaluations and the public should hear about it. Because we need to make sure that they understand everything that we are dealing with. So I appreciate your comments as well as everyone else's. With that being said, I will do this separately. The first one that I will do is a County manager. Federal employees received a five percent raise. My motion is to give George the exact same race of the general employees received. Retroactive to October first. >> Second. >> We have a motion on the floor to raise the County manager's pay by five percent. Retroactive to win? >> October first. The same as the general employees. And it is the same raise the general employees received as well. >> A second by Councilman Santiago. Councilman Johansson? >> REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSSON: I just have a quick comment. Take a look at what our County manager currently makes in the diagram. In take a look at what Daytona Beach's city manager makes. It amazes me that Daytona Beach's city manager makes that much more our County manager. I have glanced through this. By and large, most of it makes sense. But that is a lot of money for Daytona Beach. They do a lot. And I do understand. But it is quite interesting to me. That is my only comment. >> Thank you. Motion on the floor is to increase pay by five percent. All in favor say Aye. >> Aye. >> Any opposed? >> Aye. >> That I would like to talk about our County attorney. I am also making a motion to increase Michael Dyer's pay at five percent retroactive to October first. >> The same motion and same second by Councilmember Santiago. Any questions? All in favor say Aye. >> Aye. >> Any opposed? Aye. >> Both compensation raises are approved six – one. >> David Santiago? >> REPRESENTATIVE SANTIAGO: As a lead into the next topic which will be lengthy, I suggest we break shortly. It is 1145. And you are clear with lunch? Okay. >> Chair, Kelly make one quick suggestion? Absolutely appreciate all of the great comments. I will take everything very seriously. I'm always there to improve myself. I wanted to make sure that I also think my team. Because we are truly a great team. People have asked what legacy project I have here. And it is the people. It is the great team that we have assembled. I'm very proud that I get to be the coach. I like to use lots of sports analogies. I love to be the coach of a championship team. Mr. chair, I do look forward to meeting you as well one on one. We lash out your comments, I appreciate the candor and I look forward to improvement this year. >> Thank you. Michael Dyer? >> I also would like to think my team and I appreciate positive comments about former members of the team as well. I left the county at one point for another position. It's always a challenge. You build up good people you want them to have great opportunities. One of the things that I mentioned in my yearly report is having good relationships with our cities. And having these conversations with our city attorneys. Much like George and Suzanne with the County managers. We have started that and we have a regular meeting with the city attorneys. And it has truly been invaluable. Because we are dealing with issues largely the same. Sometimes we have issues of differences. But we started this-covid and we have continued to do this. It has been extremely valuable. And I appreciate the council for allowing me to do that. We have started hosting calls with our County attorneys because our state-level organization has discontinued them. And it has just been fantastic. We have had a meeting with nine counties a few weeks ago. It was one of the best conversations that I had. Sometimes you don't want to put these things into an email. I appreciate what you have all said. And I realize also that some of the things that you have said, I would like to have a conversation with the Council about these. Because code enforcement, I used to handle code enforcement with the structure of the county. Code enforcement, animal control, some of the toughest positions that you can put your staff and attorneys in. Someone is always unhappy. So the state law provides a process where most of our cases go to code enforcement board. And if there is a fine issue, there is a lien that goes against the property. Some of the things that your ordinances deal with that are less common are behavioral issues. Like doing. And many times where people think that stock is truly against them. And I can tell you, Sabrina Slack and Chris Ryan worked very hard on these. And noise ordinances are very difficult. Because it is based on sound. And you have to measure them. But if you can't measure it, the new ordinance allows you to get an affidavit from a neighbor could be unhappy. So we look at it. And just like a prosecutor you say well, have they presented enough evidence to bring a case forward or not? And if there is enough, at least in the allegation, we bring it forward. But what is important to me is not whether somebody violated it or not. It is that we treat people equally. But we do not play favorites. So if we are getting complaints from a policy perspective, I appreciate all of you. We pass a variety of roles and we can get rid of them. But if you have adopted the rules and you have them on the books, your staff is supposed to enforce them. And I appreciate that all of you are elected and make those decisions. And we may not have common agreement constantly. But I want you to know that we take the responsibility seriously. And if we are acting on it code enforcement case, but we get an affidavit that has been given to the Sheriff's office in the Sheriff's office gives that to us. If you are ever feeling that our code needs to be changed or you want to regulate something differently, that is what we are here to talk about. There are things in our ordinances that perhaps I don't personally agree with. But it doesn't matter. The Council has adopted and it is the law of the county. Realize that this is quite a large issue. And I want you to know that anytime you want something on the agendas chair and charter, then we are able to work with you. I also realize that I have to give legal advice to the council for ups and downs. I realize that I am not one eigth member of counsel. And staff. And I know sometimes with other governments that I have worked with in the past, that the accusations are made. All staff is too powerful and the attorney interjects themselves. I worked very hard and do not want to be that way. I want to support you. I think each of you for your roles because you have a tough position. I don't have to run for election. I don't have to make these policy decisions. I think in this day and age, it's probably the most challenging environment to be elected person. So thank you for your service and I truly appreciate your input today. >> Thank you. It is 11:53. We will break until 12:30. testing >> Okay. We will resume the County Council meeting. Everyone is here and we are on item 8. a presentation by staff or the sports complex development in the options there that the Council had previously requested. Tim, go ahead. >> Good afternoon Mr. chair and Honorable County Council members. I am the Parks, recreation, and cultural director. We will be looking at the Bennett development. You will see that this is what council had directed staff to look into moving forward. Okay. So, you have seen this slide on the right-hand side of your screen. This is the partner's concept plan. What we did was we broke this down into two phases. You would have four artificial turf multipurpose fields and then to rectangle natural grass fields. On the bottom of your screen, you will seem that these are the types of activities that you can see. And then on the rectangular fields, we would not play football on those kinds of fields. So you would be playing those on the artificial turf fields. The grand total is 21.7 million for phase 1. the grand total is 39 million. >> Where is phase 1 in this picture? >> If you look at the right side of your screen, before artificial turf fields would be in the upper left-hand corner. And the need to artificial turf's or natural grass fields would be on the bottom of your screen. You can pick whichever to you would like to settle on. And this is a concept plan. It may not be the final destination once we lay it all out. >> So, this is having to deal with the finances here. Previously, it seemed as though there was a bit of a sticker shock. One of the things that we would be remiss if we did not include is that this does not include the cost of getting over Veterans Memorial Highway. If we decided to do something other than a crosswalk such as a pedestrian bridge we are looking at two – $5 million based on what we provide. I did want to include that as a good public servant with giving you all of the data. >> There is also an additional eight fields on the opposite side of the road. >> Looking at defining the local need, currently we have 115,000 users at the existing sports complex. If we went all the way to developing the concept plan, we had 454,000 to give you 559,000 participants which would then be the busiest sports complex in our county. This is just a reminder of where we were. It would generate approximately 1.3 million in revenue and the economic impact would be 14 million. >> Yes. >> The left side of your screen is really focusing on tournament marketing developing sports in the Southwest Volusia County. On the right side of your screen, those are your on-field maintenance workers. These are the funding sources that you have available to you. These would be under private partnerships. There are also legislative grants which I will elaborate a little bit on. Plus you also have echo and bonding up to 40 million. That he wanted to give you the relative advantages and disadvantages of public and private. There is also a hybrid or you can have public and private. Perhaps it can be the best of both worlds. >> And then there is the four development options. On the first one, this would be an example of a publicly developed, operated, and maintained facility. Staff has visited and talked to the leadership out there. This example would be the county developing the site as well as maintaining the artificial turf in the natural grass. Plus, we would explore options to provide marketing and administration as well as management. Under model two, an example would be publicly developed and then privately operated and maintained. You will see the sports complex on the right side of the screen. They develop the site using public funds and they bonded those funds. So right now, that would be a good example of a publicly developed facility using the private sector to maintain the operations part of the facility. They still use county staff to maintain the facility. And under model three, this is a County and city partnership. We did meet with all of the cities. An option A, the city of Deltona would or could provide land off of Abigail Drive. Approximately 45 acres which would allow for six diamonds, three rectangular fields, and atypical ball courts is what the concept plan dictated. If they partnered with the county on developing that particular site, they would maintain the site in its entirety. We also met with the city of Deberry. They wanted to stick with the existing vacant land. However, their needs are slightly different. They did not and were not successful in building a gymnasium in their city. The last model is a public manage sports partnership. They would partner with a sports industry leader who would partner with sports facility development and management. They could package a program together with the private sector and bring in hotels and restaurants. Other shops and venues in addition to the sports complex to make it truly a venue. And using their expertise to package all of those things up, it would be a fee for service. We would select an entity to help partner with us to put this package together. And that is a good example of a P3 or a public private partnership for selecting an entity to put that package together. You see a lot of sports entities work in this way. And they are using public money as well as private money. So with that, I can take any questions. Before I go to the Council, Michael, your name is first. >> I think my butt got press behind my back! Sorry about that! >> After I said he was a great appointment! Vice chair Reinhart? >> VICE CHAIR REINHART: First off, we had already discussed this as did Brad and myself. When the public was looking at this, we were looking at the BMX facility. I would love to better utilize the funds for what we have. The hotels are over here and this is more so to educate the public on this question. I think investing what we already have is truly important. Without remove that aspect of the drawing? >> Yes. That BMX was pulled out per council direction. With the intention of improving the existing facility of what we already have. >> You also made the comment about it being an annual revenue of 14 million. I am familiar with the Abigail Drive area. His back on the north or south side? One side is a lot of residential. And then on the other side is very low. It dips down to an old retention area. I was curious as to where they would sign the land for this? The school would be a benefit because it's a school. >> I think it is 998 Abigail Drive. It is approximately 45 acres. They do have other areas that set aside for storm water. >> That is at the very end of Abigail. With a very deep stormwater area. >> I met with several people out there on site. The concept plan looks to add six baseball diamonds and three rectangular fields. And then they wanted to add pickle ball courts. Which is not included in any of the sports complex concept plans. That is kind of what a concept plan was. They were here earlier today and I did ask them, they are very flexible on this concept plan. So if we deliberated and wanted to do something different than what we had proposed, then they are open to flexibility. >> So the 14 million revenue is what? >> That would be economic impact. >> I do like the idea that they are a little bit more open to modifying the plan as opposed to what the other areas were open to. And that they are not hung up on a gymnasium. >> They do only have one gymnasium and it is older. >> I would not steer away from it. But I know that that comes with a huge price tag. >> Councilman Robbins? >> REPRESENTATIVE ROBINS: Tim, can you go over the funding for this? There's a misconception of where this funding is coming from and what it can be used for. Obviously, we have other issues that we are dealing with. And we just want to make sure that the public understands that we are going to be using ECO money. >> On the ballot measure we allowed up to $40 million to be allowed for bonding. So if you wanted to use a portion of the echo fund to bond, it is available and could be part of the ballot measure. You could bond it or pay through it. The other options are some naming rights. This is an apparel company. So they pain the county a certain amount for the right to put their name on the name of the sports complex. That is another opportunity for revenue-generating income stream. >> I could say and number. But I'd have to go back and double check. But I thought it was 300,000. >> And that is annually? >> Yes. >> And then the other income streams are looking at potentially private partnerships for development. In the legislative appropriation with federal and state grants. It is only 200 grand. You are getting a very small piece for that. But if we are looking at city partnerships, they would be partnering with us for a funding option. The city did not offer any city funds for this. They say it if you build a gymnasium, the city would maintain the asset. The entire asset. >> Could we pull up the site plan as well once more? Was that a picture right there with the big pond? >> No. This is a concept plan that they put together. And again, it is flexible. There is some flexibility in how we develop the site. >> Because we are in the infant stage of this, that is the reason that we have been considering this. Can we double purpose for storm water retention ponds? Or is there an area or we could have some recreational fishing where families could come? People do not need anything crazy. But just another way where we could utilize what is there that is already there? >> Yes. Also a walking track could be added here. Many children or parents like to get on a trail. >> Kind of like we do with the other fields. >> Thank you. >> David Santiago? >> I like this! Listen, I want to give credit to my colleague. Because this really started with you pressing the buttons about the facility needs on the west side. So thank you for your persistence. I like what I see. I like the option of a hybrid. I am glad you went out to the cities and started to talk to them. I would really love to go back to orange city. They are probably the ones that benefit the most economically. I think they need to go back and sharpen their pencils. I will just say this for the Council, I do like this regional approach. I think we have an opportunity here to not only leverage what Deltona wants to do on their property, and what we would like to do on hours. They also have the opportunity to tap into the echo dollars as a municipality. We have done two years worth of echo projects and we all know that it has been quite light. I have told them specifically that you are not coming to do this and they need to step up their game. They have an opportunity to tap into that. And I think they also have the opportunity to make this a real partnership. Some of you may remember that this property was at one time title for the partnership center. It was a project between the county, state, and Dewberry to make the property into a conference/educational center. That is how it got the title called the partnership center. It could revive itself if someone wants to pay for the naming rights. But we could also revive it into a recreation facility. I also wanted to bring up the BMX stuff. It is in this plan but is not being proposed? >> Yes. 100 originally presented their study, they had included the BMX track in there. Council directed that it's better suited to improve the BMX track that we already have. Which is a very nice facility. It could use some improving. But they do a great job. It could use some additional things. >> Had I been engaged in that, I probably would have said the opposite. The kids from Deltona will not drive to wherever Strickland Park is. We have an opportunity here to serve both sides. We have the Palmetto curtain and geographically, we are a divided county. I think when we first came out with this plan, get calls from my residence advocating for this. I have multiple calls. I also believe that my memory was we wanted to see if we could do this in a way that could entertain competitions. Again, the price tag is important. The other thing is when we first met about this project, I wanted to tell the Council what I shared with staff. I think I used the word Disney. If you go to Disney properties and you see how they keep the topography and the nature of certain areas intact, not talking about the older projects, but they tried to keep the nature scape of the property. Can we look into the possibility of, how do we keep trees in areas to where we do not have to knock them down. With natural barriers and landscape. It almost makes it feel like there is quadrants within the facility. >> Yes. Kind of like fantasyland. We need to keep as much. Don't scrape the whole thing down. I think we should keep as much of the nature scape as possible. We need to bring orange city back to the table. With the hybrid, don't replicate. It can possibly be marketed as a: statistics project. This is not done in one facility. It is done in multiple. How do people come to this area and have premier partnership facilities to do events? I apologize. But I did just want to share my vision. And do you think Danny was right about funding? Do we have a BMX course at chuckle and in part? >> It is a mountain bike course. BMX is with bikes. But you are looking at hills and jumps. In mountain biking is a trail through the woods. But mountain biking and BMX thing is quite different. And then there is the motocross track which is a different track altogether. >> Does your staff maintain the chocolate in mountain craft? >> Yes. We have an agreement with the Mountain bike Association. They take care of 10 miles of the mountain bike trail. They need some matting to prevent erosion. >> It is a very nice course. >> When you are walking through the hybrid, are you talking about three or four? >>. >> Funding will be the big hurdle probably with all of us. I already see that the County manager and his staff are focused on controlling flood warnings. What do we do with the storm water. The funding will be a big hurdle. Has orange city or Dewberry talked about this? >> In terms of Deltona, they would share in the cost of development on Abigail drive. They would provide the land and partner in costs. Then once it is constructed, they would assume the maintenance costs. In the city's case, there are really only pledging to maintain the facility once it is constructed. If the county committed to build a facility along with the gymnasium, then the city would maintain the entire facility. >> I will go back in time quickly. The city had a plan to build a gymnasium and they are hereby the way. I think it was 12 and a half-million at the time. So it is significantly more now. >> So there has been some agreement between staff. That would be to maintain and operate the facility which is what they have talked about. >> Are they still allowed to operate a territorial Park? That would be up for Dewberry to find out. >> How would we participate? >> Orange city has some statistics that shows that they are serving non-city residents and county kids at about a rate of 60 percent – 40 percent of city kids. Just with their recreational programs. So they think they are doing their part to help the county at this point. >> And interpretation is there not coughing up any money? >> I don't think so. I think the focus has been and continues to be bringing back some normalcy to their city. >> I think you gave Don credit for bringing this up. He certainly put this back on the front burner. There is needs for these facilities. I think I remember in 2021, we talked about this and the County manager correctly said that whenever we did this, it needed to be funded by echo. And not by general fund. I have not heard any talk about the general fund. For me, we would have to stay completely away from general fund to do this. >> Outdoor recreation is one of the portions of the ballot language. We have helped our municipal partners and we have spent a lot developing with our partners. Multiple projects which certainly qualify with the ballot language. Where general fund dollars would come in is the subsidy. If you had other operational funds that may be available to subsidize, and essentially the $400,000 between the 1.3 and the 1.7 is what we were looking at. When we talk to the commissioners, they tell you that they will supplement out of the general fund. They are more focused on economic development in the subsidy that they provide is what's burning the economic development to their communities. I think the first step is for this council to say do we want this to be an economic development engine or do we want to meet the demand for youth sports in our community? If you wanted to be an economic development engine, and I would recommend model four. The adage of build it and they will come does not work here. You need to start at the very beginning and have a partner who develops 100 acres next to you with three hotels and restaurants. Now, if you wanted to meet the demand, we would gauge the school board. 61 percent of fields in this county are on the east side of the population is on the west side. So this kind of evens it out. We could do both. And that is what the model contemplates. Eight – 12 fields is what we need to have a tournament style facility. So we could still provide youth play on the week and have tournaments during the weekend. We typically are breaking even in years three – five. They project that we will continue to grow over time. They have all talked and they said that we could use additional fields for – six times per year. The problem is the hotel rooms. If we want to be a truly economical development, we will generate about 5600 hotel rooms with 24 percent being realized in our county because we do not have the hotels. So if we want to do the economic development approach and we have to go whole hog with the partner. We can offset operational costs by having local regional tournaments. Those are just the questions the Councillor needs to answer for us. >> We are already hearing rumblings in Daytona of a sports complex. Have they come to us and asked to partner? >> They have not? >> Do you expect it? >> I would almost guarantee that they would, ask about a partnership. There is a lot of this going on in our community. And I think the demand is so high with what they have told us that these weekend tournaments will always have demand. They showed us some data where every sector of the tourism industry shrank in consecutive quarters except for sports tourism. Because people wanted to get outside during covid. This is the only sector that is resilient is the word that they used. So we will not cannibalize each other. There is enough demand to go around. So we had contemplated being in discussion for a $90 million complex with multiple fields in the 20s. so now Daytona is doing the analysis as well. And I think there will be synergy rather than cannibalization. >> When I think about saturation points, I think more about how far can echo maintain this if Daytona is coming after echo funds. We will run out of money in a year or two. It goes to 20/40 and every year we get more money. But how many of these can the county maintain? How many could we afford to build? That is my concern about this. Do you have any idea between now and 2040, how many projects like this the county has plans for? Or will be bringing to us? >> Part of our strategic planning process is this council's approval which is sitting down with the cities in developing a long-range plan. But I will say that the strategic plan only works as long as the elected officials are at the dais. They can tell us that this is their plan for 2040, but it could change after the next election. >> At this point in time, there are caps for the facility unless it provides a significantly different experience. For an outdoor recreation facility, the cap is 3.1 million. But the Council has the authority based on the direct County expenditure program to do more. >> Thank you. Councilman Dempsey? >> Chuck Lennon is a perfect example. This is completely different than BMX. Mountain biking is writing the trails in the woods. BMX is a short course. Strickland has been there since 86. And I have been over there many of times. My question is do you have any idea how much money the county spends to maintain this? Because they have the mountain bike trail system, a couple of soccer fields, and Little League fields. How much do we spend in the year? >> This man does a great job with partners. We bid that out and they agreed to maintain that. Not the entire facility, but the immensities. For those of entities where we are providing the area or the space, they are maintaining them with the caveat that we will share. But otherwise, Tim could tell you what the cost recovery he has for every single track. Do you have any of the top of your head. >> Okay. So how much do we spend? >> Right around $450,000. >> And that is a natural turf field? >> Yes. This will be artificial turf fields which have significantly less maintenance requirements. >> Why do we need artificial turf? >> Because of the demand. Because of the demand and the number of people, we are replacing it much more often than we should. >> How often are we replacing these fields? >> When we get into the artificial turf in the natural turf, then there are lots of pros and cons for both of them. With the artificial turf, they had eight fields that were artificial. And on those fields, it allows you great flexibility because it is extremely resilient. When you move to a natural grass, you are now closing down your fields and restructuring goals or high use areas. So now you have to rebuild and close down your facility. And then have less traffic on the facilities. >> I don't mean to interrupt you. But how often do we have to do that? >> Every year. And that is just at the rectangular fields. In the same thing at Chuck Lennon. There are leagues out there that play on the weekend. We have to close the fieldstone and cut out the areas with more Bermuda. On the artificial turf side, you don't have to do that. But you do have to rebuild it approximately every 10 – 15 years. Which is about half $1 million. The other, and to the artificial turf is that it is hot. So they're making strides to try and cool it down. But it does still get hot. So there are some limitations on this. But you can put every kind of recreational activity on this turf. >> You've already mentioned the numbers. But the Eastside has 43 percent? >> The Eastside has 61 percent. Tim did one part of this month. 62 percent of the fields and about 49 percent of the youth aged population. >> So then isn't it true that artificial turf is more dangerous on the knees? Artificial turf is approximately. About half of the fields in the NFL are artificial turf and half are natural. The players really want a natural turf. But when you look at the field, they have woven in Kentucky bluegrass to an artificial turf which may be the way that you might have the best of both worlds. >> I do not expect this to come from anywhere but echo. When I brought this up a year or two ago, there was still a deficiency and football practice fields. So what is the harm in just using this land and building natural fields without the cities? >> If you look at economic impact, the artificial turf gives you a greater allowance for more activity on the field and the natural grass. So if you look at this as a driver, you will need some kind of artificial turf to keep tournament play all year long. >> So it is doable if you want to the local need. >> Thank you for the numbers. These have supported what I have said all along. There is a shortage for the Westside residence. I really truly want to meet that demand. I don't want to add more traffic into the community and we are already dealing with. At least to deal with the local demand, then we would have a place to go after school to be able to practice football. >> If you are looking just for local need, and the natural grass is fine. But you will have to re-sod after one season. >> On American football or soccer? >> Real football. Tackle football tears of the fields very quickly. >> And what is the issue with the BMX course? What could we not put that in? >> There was consensus, before this they wanted to focus on improvements at Strickland. There was consensus to focus on improving Strickland. They wanted to focus on improving that and strengthening it. They wanted a championship caliber so that there could be events hosted and be far enough apart to have two different tournaments held here per year. >> The city of Deland has a little BMX Park. Right? >> Yes. We could do that here. >> I'm just talking about summer with the kids could just have something to do while they're waiting for the Little League team? >> It is council direction. >> Councilman Johansson? >> If others have questions, I will hold off. Councilman Kent? >> REPRESENTATIVE KENT: Did the county participate? >> Yes. >> How much? I do know that it was echo dollars. >> I think it may have been lights. >> I think it was Robert Caroline. And if I'm not mistaken, I think I had a conversation with him and they were looking at lighting for one of the complexes. >> I know there was also some racing and recreation money. I'm not sure of echo participated with that at all. I bring it up for the Council because it was a big thing that we paid for. So we have some that are out there doing it all on their own and no we are looking at a situation where times are changing. I just wanted to put that out there. The rest of minor comments. >> Councilman Santiago? >> REPRESENTATIVE SANTIAGO: Is the 40 and 60 percent both county and municipal? >> County and municipal. >> Thank you. >> Are we ready for questions now? I remember seeing your name right at the top! Jake Johansson. >> REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSSON: She was telling me to press the button. First of all, every one of these projects that we talk about that is funded by echo has a maintenance tale that comes out of somewhere. Echo is not for outdoor recreation. It is for four things. Environmental culture, heritage, and history. Each one of those has a tail. So think about that when we approve a cultural grant or when we approve a historical grant. Sometimes we pay for them and sometimes nonprofits pay for them. But there is a tail associated. The other thing is I don't want to say that I am opposed. But I've run a city before. And I've seen a city walk away from an obligation to pay for something that was agreed to be paid for. It's okay now, but it might not be okay in 10 years. A time I come when the city says sorry, but we can't maintain this any longer. So I am very cautious about partnering with municipalities. Not because I don't trust them, but because things happen and they may occasionally have to walk away. I'm very supportive of the private and public venture. Because then the private entity assumes some risk. And I like when everyone has skin in the game. I also think that the P3 organization, if we can make it work is the hotels that would be established close by. Hopefully in a P3 arrangement. I think they would draw more revenue to us. In the private entity can then charge that pay to play. With the pay to play it's almost a guarantee that we can get revenue. Because they have to stay in our hotels or you cannot play baseball. So that's where I sit with this. I think it's great and I think the blending option is phenomenal. I think it allows us to buy something large like this and pay it without killing our echo funds for a year to make that happen. And it will enable us to keep our echo program going. That option for is where I am at with this. Working with a good organization. I could take or leave the BMX or the gymnasium. And I would like it to be regional. When I said partnering with cities I'm talking about long term. But it would be nice to have the participating Westside cities that plan on using it facility to throw in some capital to make it a little bit more palatable as well. But that is for George to arrange with the managers and us to lobby with elected officials. So that is my thought on this. I think we should try to keep all of the revenue here in Volusia County. >> If you heard this outside of chambers, you would probably be upset. In addition to model four, when we did meet with Orange city, she did say that there is 100 acres in South adjacent to this property that is set for commercial development. So if we were to move forward, the area is ripe for something like this. Given that the hundred acres is slated for commercial development. Restaurants, hotels and such. >> Councilman Santiago? >> Jake, I agree with your comments. I want to clarify one thing because I think the O and echo allows for this? >> It was stated that it was a poll for outside recreation. Which is one fourth of what is approved for. >> Don, I appreciate your perspective as well with controlling costs. Just to fit the minimal need of what people are asking for. But I think we are on an opportunity here to help the Southwest Volusia with an economic engine. We've heard Daytona Beach and this area being Volusia's economic engine. But this gives an opportunity to diversify our economic and put a bringing in some revenue. In that area can support it. It has just been widened to four lanes. We starve of hotels in West Volusia. If anything will bring more hotels which then brings worker types of development, it is all of this. Events like this that attract people to the area. Right now, people just lived here. There is no demand for building a hotel where people just reside. I think if we are going to do it, then let's go for the economic engine. I like that you said you don't want to cannibalize other areas. We need to be communicating with cities that we are not taking away from the other. I think echo is a good way of finding this. I'm still interested in figuring that idea out. I know that it is just on a staff level right now. It's just an interesting piece to me. I think what we need to do is just say we like this option, let's go to the next step and then come back to us. And I will just say that I am all for model for at this point. I do not want to just copy what others are doing. Let's make it a different reason for others to come here. With lights. >> And fishing! >> Councilman Reinhart? >> VICE CHAIR REINHART: One of the questions that was brought up when I toured the BMX facility in Strickland was that I saw the concerns that they had with respect to the actual course. It has been there for quite some time. And it does need some love. They do a lot of big competitions there. And I would be remiss if I did not say this. They understood the need to put something on the west side of the county. Right now, no offense to the west side of the county, but there are no hotels to speak of. They are going to Seminole County. They do not want to give the competition or our revenue away for what we will make here in Volusia. In Daytona, they have the hotels. So people are staying there. But I do like the compromise of some kind of facility there not having to be at the level of what Strickland is. Because I still want to make Strickland better. The meat and potatoes are already there. You are starting from scratch here. And I think some sort of BMX track would be great. But if they don't want to compete with themselves, because they will only go to one area, but I'm just saying leave the food for thought. But I do also like the model four. I do not want any of our general fund money going into this. >> Mr. chair, could I just add something to what Mr. Wright heard side? You are right about the hotels. What is great about this is almost across the street there is a brand-new hotel going up. It's about 50 percent done. And that has shown that the hotel is being built because of this. >> Down some and try kind? >> REPRESENTATIVE KENT: It sounds like we will become the economic engine for Seminole County. Since they will all be mostly staying over there. Which is a bit of a concern. My comments with looking at all of these things, you get one shot at this. There is no doubt that there is a need on the west side. The BMX course should be included in this from the get-go. There should be a walking track. I was going to go with the fishing but then there's a smart comment about a fountain with lights. I think it's another really wonderful opportunity. You should also have a limitless playground. Where any kid, regardless of their disability can participate with every other kid. The thing that I found that is amazing is that kids don't really look at other kids as having a disability or something that they cannot do. Whenever you have a playground where if a kid in a wheelchair can swing on the swing, I think it is a good thing to add at this time. I would also be remiss if we took one of these grass fields and turned half of it into a world-class dog park. You have something there where it is an enclosed fence area and there are activities for the pet owners and the dogs as well. Look at the YMCA. If you want to know what to go look at and see, we partnered with the YMCA at the light Decker family YMCA. We have a dog park there. There's also one up in Bicentennial Park. It's something that we should talk about. I'm absolutely no one general funds. I am a yes for echo funds. This is 39 – $40 million here. But I would be remiss and I will advocate for the east side here. Echo funds should be euphoric County projects first. The ocean center. We have a big project coming up at the ocean center. I think we should be talking about echo funds there. We have Daytona Beach and talking about Jackie Robinson ballpark. The question is extremely appropriate. What is our saturation level and at what point do we say we are up to our neck and there are no new projects coming to get down to the brass tacks. I am actually okay with model three or model four. My concern with model for is if we help a private business. We put in almost all the money to build it and then they take all the money but their dump truck. And for three or four, it would have to be spelled out because it's such a huge amount of honey that if the city or the private company would have to have a real plan in place to make sure that there is money put aside for renewal and replacement. What I don't want to happen is that were going to need $70 million but hey, taxpayers foot the bill again while the owner of the company is on his private jet that he flew to get onto his private yacht hanging out in the South Pacific. Are you picking up what I'm laying down? That is all. >> I will warn you, Don Dempsey is next. And he has a unique ability to change everyone's mind. >> When I brought this up two years ago, I was never talking about using youth sports as a way of becoming an economic driver. I am not here saying let's profit because youth sports is an untapped reservoir to get from the parents. My son did travel ice hockey and we would go out of state to pay twice the fees to stay in the hotels. And we made a lot of money off of it. All I am saying is that my son practicing Little League in storm water retention ponds. I'm talking about the local high school football team and the coach coming to me saying can we practice on your farm because we have nowhere to practice. I don't really care about economic drivers or having millions of dollars in. I also don't care about if Stanford is making more money than Deltona. I'm talking about giving these kids a place to practice. In a place to play their sports. And at what point, we have 52 percent of the youth athletes but only 38 percent of the fields. When we get 52 percent of the fields and accessibility and we have 52 percent of the youth athletes looking for a place to play and practice then I will shut up. Because you said we have to equalize. My reference is by the pure numbers, we have a deficiency. I'm not asking for anything other than model one. What harm is there in taking this property, mowing the fields, putting billings roads in and giving these kids place to practice football and play Little League? These numbers. I don't like the fact that the bar for our numbers is in this thing. I cannot imagine that it costs this kind of money to maintain fields equivalent to what we already have. We have a skate park in Deland. You want to go ride skateboards, go to the land. It is unmanned and unsupervised and it has been going on for close to a decade now. You guys got a skate park at the port orange YMCA that echo paid for. I don't know who financed it. But I am not looking for national draw. I don't really think it matters which county agency is financing it. I don't care about drawing in all this money. If a leader Council decides that we could make a ton of money than they could always change to a model three or model four. But this has been two years since I brought it up. They don't feel like were any closer. I just want to give these kids their place to practice football. >> Thank you for proving that I was right. Which creates another question for you. But I will wait because someone might answer here. Councilman Santiago? >> REPRESENTATIVE SANTIAGO: You did not convince me. But it is what you came up with initially. The go toward the dialogue, once you make the sale, it's typically what happens. I think that Troy is supporting the effort. Although he has some caveats I think he is supporting the effort. The reason why I like the economic side is because we will talk about goal setting shortly. And a facilitator called me and it was a very quick conversation. I don't want to put words in his mouth, but he said he wanted to focus on economic prosperity. And that can mean a lot of things. I want kids to be able to play. I think we get the best of both worlds here. But guess what they need to have you participate in this activity? They have to have jobs. The sports are not cheap. I think that we can do both. The question is the final analysis. We may get this final analysis and say what the heck? But I think we can accomplish what you want to bring some economic prosperity additional to West Volusia. I really truly think that we could do both. Four. I think you can live with that you're just saying that I didn't want this big price tag. But if the numbers make sense, I didn't want the big price tag either. But if it makes sense that we need to think about what we invest our own money? Thank you Mr. chair. >> I would like to go to Jake. Is it going to be the same 39 million for the option one that he is talking about? >> It remains to be seen. The model for is very much the way I likened it to. It is very much a please don't liken it to that. But when I bring affordable housing projects to you the county would give this much in the private equity would give this much. And this is how much that the property owner next-door is giving. It is a capital stock. You guys will approve the stack on how the profit-sharing will go. I don't foresee it being more than 39. For number 4. >> The artificial turf field costs a lot more to build than the natural turf. So if the plan is no artificial turf which is where I thought you were heading then a model for would give you artificial turf and natural grass. The natural grass would be significantly less. But here is the rub. When you go to maintain the grass, there's a lot of cost to maintain the grass with mowing, fertilizing, herbicide and the rest. Plus watering and cutting out grass as you move through time. Whereas with artificial turf you are not doing that. There is a cost on ongoing maintenance and a large upfront cost. At the end of the 12 – 10. Time when you lay it all out in the timeframe, it's not very far off. But it is a matter of what you want. >> I don't know if that was directed at me or what. >> Jake Johansson? >> REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSSON: 's Percentages side-by-side are the inside percentages. This is people in general. Not unincorporated versus Incorporated. Does this say how many fields are on the east side? >> The largest one that we have on the east side is Strickland Park which has two baseball diamonds. Zero rectangular fields. On the east side we have more fields. These are maintained by cities. Have we ever had Westside cities asking for echo funds? Why have the cities gone short? >> I have asked my team as I have seen before. We have adjusted it on the east and west and we see a lot more. It is the evolution of Sports. We will request the development of fields from the west side. >> I hear Councilmember Dempsey's. >> I think that is probably pop Warner. Has Deland tried to fix that? Why is Volusia County coming to the rescue with this big program. But why us and not the cities. I know it is a rhetorical. But from my perspective, we are back from the I just want fields to I want a driver. We need to ask the cities to consider the echo. I want our local kids to have access to these fields. So when they do pay to play and seminal, it isn't the first time that they have played. Because from a baseball and a soccer perspective, it is much different. The ball bounces different on turf. I want this opportunity for our kids. Monday through Thursday local. And then we take the weekends off. As long as we keep the balance, I'm all for the economic driver. A successful P3 is invaluable. There is no reason why it cannot work here if we do it right. And there are people to help us do it right. >> Councilman Robbins? >> My exact notes was the best of both worlds. I agree 100 percent with you. But I think we could make this into something great. I agree that it is lacking in demand. If you look at outdoor recreation, it took off and is thriving. It's also enticing to me that hundred acres that gives us this opportunity to really build something or create a package to supplement this and make it very unique and it adds to the repertoire of activities and diversifies our space with what the whole council has said. Getting more away from residential development and being very target specific with what we do. If we are going to do it, then I think we should do it right. I am ready to make a motion with model four. This is probably one of the best investments that the County could make the covers so much that would affect our community. >> I am all in. >> So we have a motion for model four. And then on the hundred acres I would not be against putting a dog park there. >> I would not be a constant. If anything I would entertain it. >> So the motion on the floor is for model four. That motion came from Councilman Robbins. The second from Councilman Santiago. Councilman Kent? >> After Councilman Johansson's comments, I just want to say that the Eastside does have more fields. But the cities have paid for it. It makes me question why the cities aren't paying for it on the west side. And then it made me think about why are we even talking about this. I don't think one city member has come before us to ask us to find something on the west side. You said the Westside does not have the stuff and we are listening. In my opinion it does make me wonder why have these cities not provided at the Eastside cities have been providing. I am okay. Done, you had me thinking there. Your idea might cost $300 and some free barbecue. You could just give kids an area to kind of throw a ball or something. I mention this. You should do this the right way. >> I like model three or model for as well. I am glad that you are all in support of it. At least no one saying Bah humbug. But I would highlight that when you say the cities are paying for it, they are getting echo funding. We just approved things through echo. And orange has their skate park through echo. It is not just the city. I don't know all the dynamics. But I would expect that if Holly Hill got two and half million for pickle ball, that it would not be unusual. >> The team is working on it. >> I do apologize for interrupting. Using the dashboard that we have for echo, I found three projects that were part of the sports complex. Interestingly, they are all the same grant amount. 400,000. One in 2019 for new softball fields, one 2020 for baseball and soccer field fighting projects. And in 2024 for a softball field. >> Three projects at 1.2 million? >> Yes. In the total projects were valued at roughly 3 million. >> I just don't agree with the numbers. I think they quoted the BMX track at an absurd amount of money. I don't buy these numbers. But all that I was proposing is that we go with model one with the direction to explore models three and four later on. I would like to see some sort of interim field for these kids to explore on. And I would suspect that would take much longer to explore than just getting some interim fields established. But if you let kids give up Little League, then we can always use the property for something else. I don't think that much money is going to waste by putting in temporary parking. >> Thank you. Councilman Robbins? >> When it comes to the cities and the county, everyone pays into echo. I think there is a motion on the floor. And we can have staff look for another piece of property that is perhaps not as big on the west side. I don't want to talk ourselves out of this. But we have a good motion on the floor. >> The motion on the floor is for model four. Before we vote, we have a member of the public. I would like one of you to tell us, if we vote for four, they are not voting today to spend the money. We are voting for you to come back and give us hard numbers. Because I am not sure, I truly hope these numbers are not right. >> You would be engaging someone who specializes in P3's. It would be good to know who would have the private investment moving forward. >> So there should be a fee for those services. >> Any idea. Could you take a look at this? >> We do try to research it. But what we got back was not exactly what we wanted. >> Either way. It should come back to us. >> The motion on the floor is for model for with more information. Would you like to call the role? I just said I would not forget our resident athlete John Nicholson. >> I think he's going to advocate for water polo! >> That wouldn't be bad. I just kept writing and writing because of the loopholes that you're missing! The idea that we will subsidize Seminole County with 80 – 90 percent of its economic development, because you can't put a hotel in overnight. These cost a lot of money. So you may get a hotel. But the rest of them are in Seminole. So why are we building this huge facility for Seminole County. I like Don's idea that there be no plumbing fixtures or know Michelangelo statues anywhere. Bottom line, what does our community need? They do not need a lot. Right from the very beginning we said we wanted motocross. I don't need $16 million. Just give what you've given to pickle ball. Everyone is happy with that. Why are we expanding this to the most fantastical thing just south of Chicago. We are overdoing this for what the county needs. I'm disappointed that you did not have a map of where the fields are. You should have had a map and said okay, here are the fields. And why are they on the east side? Because that is where the population was. When I moved to Daytona Beach it was 23 percent living on the west side of the county. It was only normal and natural that where the populations were is where you had the schools. There are reasons for all of this. This is not a silver bullet and it will not provide the economic incentives that you think it will. You are putting this out in the middle of nowhere and saying were going to build it and they will come. I am less than convinced. What you didn't say is that no one ever mentioned that there are people living in Deland. And part of your growth has been in Deland with senior citizens. But there are enough children to use this. How far is it from this location to Deland? A five minute drive. They will use it. The population will grow on the left side. They need these fields. But not the luxury ones. They just need the basics. Yesterday. Not tomorrow, not next month, now. >> Crystal, would you please call the role? >> REPRESENTATIVE SANTIAGO: Yes. >> REPRESENTATIVE DEMPSEY: No. >> REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSSON: Yes. >> REPRESENTATIVE KENT: Chairman, Matt ask a question quickly? I'm just curious, you are okay with this. Were you and know because he wanted model one? Yes. >> VICE CHAIR REINHART: Yes. >> REPRESENTATIVE ROBINS: Yes. >> CHAIR BROWER: No. I will vote with Don. Because I am quite worried about the price. The motion passes five – two. It was a great debate. I will skip item 9. appointment of the city of Deland's recommendation of Ms. Lewis to the Spring Hill community redevelopment agency. >> As well as we would need to appoint or nominate their members for the city of Deland as well. The mayor is one that automatically serves. But we do have to officially nominate their other two ex officio members. >> Are moved or nominate them. >> I need a motion to nominate the three. >> Motion. >> Second. >> The motion is made by David Santiago. The second was by Jay Johansson. Questions? All in favor say Aye. >> Aye. >> Any opposed? The motion carries seven – zero. Okay. Item 10. Two Councilmember appointments to the value adjustment board for the remainder of 2024. I will be getting ready to open up a Pandora's box. Councilman Reinhart has been on this. He has had a lot of appointments since he started. He has asked if we could take a break from that. >> First we need a motion. The current members are David Santiago and Mr. Reinhart. >> Yes. It would also need to appoint a citizen member. The only thing that we have is for Ms. and Patterson. >> I can make a motion to appoint Ms. Patterson. >> Second. >> What are the qualifications? It can be anywhere in the county? I may have some for our next meeting. We need more correct? >> No. We only need one and we have Ms. Patterson. So this vote is to keep you on there. Okay. >> Thank you chair. Two years ago when we did this, I took on six if not seven boards. Last year I continued this. In the interim, I've lost a couple family members. I would like to focus my time on my family and taking on all these boards. In addition these are the ones that I have taken on. I have taken on things that in addition were assigned to me from this counsel. But six boards is a lot. I have evaluated all the ones that I have looked at. But I am hoping that someone else could please pick up the ball. >> Do they meet quarterly? All day? >> It's usually an hour or two. I think the shortest meeting had was 20 minutes. >> I'm sorry Mr. Robbins. I did not notice that your name is there. >> Chair, would it behoove us to evaluate your assignments here? And perhaps look to see where we are all at? My question last time and I know we all have our own lives, but as a team, some of us were taking a lot of these boards. And some of us work as well. Is there a way that we can spread these out evenly this year? To try and work with each other in the bus capacity that we can that way we don't have the same situations? Were we have four, five, six, seven boards apiece. Is it something that could potentially be amicable? >> Can I expand on that Mr. chair? >> Yes. I was going to suggest that we might not get it done today. I did not see any changes that I would make. But you each deserve to be asked. Especially Matt. David has a lot of positions as well. We are hurting because two of our members cannot do meetings in the daytime. Let's solve this one first. >> I was going to say that I would take your place. >> Thank you chair. I appreciate that. Can we do that in this same boat? >> Motion to approve. >> Jake Johansson? >> I wanted to discuss the follow line. >> On your let's look at them all part. >> Let's finish this one and then we can get that one. I don't think we need to call the role. David Santiago has agreed to stay. I will take Matt's place and give him some relief. All in favor say Aye. >> Aye. >> I have a clarification for this vote as well. >> Who made the official motion in the second? I have Reinhart and then Mr. Kent said to the Council. >> I had Mr. Reinhart making the motion and David Santiago making the second. >> German, are we allowed any alternates? I will help out wherever I can. Is there an option for an alternate? Because sometimes things come up and you may not be able to go. >> I've never been an alternate. Is it possible to have one. Could the attorneys answer this question? Any reason why there could not be? >> I don't think there is a reason that there cannot be one. If you want to nominate the alternate, the person could perform. >> German, if it gets to be too much for you, and I will be an alternate. >> Someone please make a motion to make Councilman Robbins to be the alternate. >> Motion for Councilman Robbins to be the alternate on the value adjustment board. >> Is there a second? >> A second by Matt Reinhart. >> All in favor say Aye. >> Aye. >> Any opposed? The motion carries seven – zero. That brings us to the chairs assignment. Is there anybody, I think we have at least one. Anybody who is not happy with their assignment? >> Yes. >> Okay. The Board of Trustees is Don Dempsey. Are you okay there? Frank Bruno remains the same. Jeff Brower and Jake Johansson on the rail. Carmen Hall is good. Try Kent for alternate on the Volusia County at-large representative. That is a citizen. And there is no applicants? >> This is for circuit seven community alliance DCF. >> And if I recall, Chris Gillis cannot be on it because she is already on it in a different capacity. Is that right? >> Yes. >> I can come up with a different candidate here. >> The claims committee, David Santiago. The Department of juvenile Justice, try Kent. Danny Robbins on Doris Leeper. And are you going to be here in 2032? Drug court? You may be on the drug court. John Dempsey. Try Kent, DUI treatment? >> Yes. >> Denny Robbins and Jake Johansson. >> Is that the TPL Mr. chair? >> No. I will remain on the elected officials roundtable broadband committee. Is that still going? >> I don't know where they are at now. There is a meeting coming January 30th. >> Are you good for the board of directors for District 8? >> The human services advisory board, Jake Johansson? Indian River Lagoon, I would like to stay there. Is Danny still good for an alternate? >> Are you still the chairman? >> I am the chairman until February or March. Whenever the meeting is. >> I am pretty intimate with the lagoon. I am also licensed Captain. If you would consider chairman after your chairmanship is up, to maybe let another person take the lead role on that and bring what we have to the table on a full-time basis, I would appreciate it. >> It is probably my favorite thing. But I do understand and you have asked each year. The rest of these all go to Matt Ryan. Stephen I think remains an river of flakes. The TPL. It is really all of us with Troy and Don as alternates. >> If I recall our conversation last year, I thought I got put in as an alternate. We had discussions around this. That is the one that I cannot make. My schedule is extremely conflicted. >> TPL requires five members from the Council correct? >> Whose roles are those? >> Affect dots. >> We can investigate why I love you need to serve with Tübingen alternate. >> Were pretty sure it's F dots role. >> I know it is a tough one for me. We made it clear last year that I could make it. >> Matt Reinhart. Transportation disadvantaged. Don Dempsey and David Santiago. Team Volusia. Danny Robbins. >> Sure. >> I am the alternate. I have not been able to go to their meetings. I do not know if Jake would like to be the alternate there. >> Would love to. >> I believe you actually go to their meetings anyways right? >> I do go to some but I will go tomorrow. >> The Volusia area State Forest liaison panel. Lucinda is still good for the library? >> Yes she is. Don't show up, you get nominated! >> For the TPO, it is a weighted average. >> Could we give more weight to four? >> I think they do the calculation and tell us. >> For the entire county or for unincorporated Volusia? I still don't know what that means. >> You said a keyword there. Allowed to have. Not mandatory. >> I did not mean for that to be permissive. >> Could we get more information? >> Yes chair. >> I do see that Mr. Dempsey was willing to serve. We do have the two alternates. If you cannot make it, maybe one of them could fill in. It's probably impossible for you. >> There's something that I thought about. Nothing to create waves. I know we have our own schedules. But some of us still have seven and eight boards. Is there a way that there could be any flexibility? There is no flexibility in my schedule. But I have two young kids. I have two or three jobs. The same as everyone else. I was hoping this year that we could find some better middle ground. I am not wanting to create controversy. Just trying to have a dialogue to see and say that I am really truly stretching myself in here. I just wanted to see if there was any reciprocation. >> Now you have me perplexed. The chairman just went down every single thing and everyone was okay but you are not okay. >> I'm so perplexed. Everything was okay but now it's not. I will take every and any board on the weekend or after 6:00 p.m.. >> Again, if anyone wants to have a serious conversation to actually try to be a collective team, we all have the same issues. The question was not to be insulting. It was simply to tally. To look to see what we have. Especially now that we are tallying up our boards. It appears to be lopsided. I am not trying to be a pain in the butt. What would happen if three of us said we cannot do this and we have full-time jobs. Who would fill these positions? Do we hire someone? Because this is not my full-time job. >> Would have to review each board and see if it was a requirement. >> Could go ahead? I'm trying to teambuilding here a little bit. There has to be some give-and-take. Can we really drill down to see what boards we have to be at? >> We will go through the chairs appointments and see what are the statutory requirements. >> There is a full board here. Does anyone have a comment? >> REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSSON: I just want everyone to know that I am very involved and immersed in my four major committees for councils. So don't mess with me. I am good with the East Central Florida planning committee. I'm very involved and passionate about them. And I would like to stick with everything that I have. David, if you find yourself swamped with claims, I'm just telling you. >> It really is the most exciting appointment. >> David Santiago. Danny, I think you have been to the Indian River Lagoon meetings when we first started. It is an all day thing. >> We have to adjust proportionately. If I said I work Monday through Friday and I can only do boards after five or six and what kind of position . With the board in? What does it put our team in. It's an honest question. >> Name was up. You still have a question? We will look at a couple of these and they will bring back more information about what is absolutely required. Let's move on to item 12. Would you like me to take over your opioid abatement advisory board? >> We are not all dealt the same deck of cards here. >> Judges make my calendar. I do not. >> I understand that. But what happens if we run into this more with two or three members? >> It's because everybody else is picking up the slack. >> All to cover your other board as well. The chairman went through and everyone said it was okay. Now there is a problem. >> I will take your door sleeper since the next meeting is over here. >> Let's be realistic and wait until staff comes back. >> Are not getting caught up in your web with this. >> You are the one who wants to spend the web. Like I'm not the guy that did it. You created all of this. Let's relent back in. >> I will take over his door sleeper. In the opioid abatement, >> The next meeting is hundred 27. They meet in the Dennis McGee room of the Daytona Beach international Airport. The meetings are scheduled at the meeting. >> And if I cannot make it for whatever reason because I have a conflict, then what should I do? >> Should Danny be your alternate? >> I have court-ordered places that I have to be. >> This thing got a little bit of a life of its own when I asked a simple question. I asked could we possibly even things out once we figure out what is what? You guys could say no. >> I just took doris leeper and I can take this one. >> I do believe that the opioid abatement advisory board needs to be a separate agenda item. And chair. Would you like to add Don Dempsey to the management plan or keep Mr. Robbins? >> Let's make the change. He offered. >> I can do it as long as I can. But I do not want to be accused of pulling my weight. >> Thank you Councilman Dempsey. >> And I got door sleeper right? I think I have the majority of them. >> We were doing pretty good. Now you have to reel us all in. Item 13. Discussion on Council goals. >> Now that we are all fired up, are we ready? >> What the Council like a break before we start? >> No. >> Thank you. I've had the opportunity to speak to each of you. I hope you have this in front of you. I will start at the top. We will go down and discuss it as each. I will give a brief background introduction. If you have comments, we will take them. If you say nothing, I will move to the next item. >> What sheet are we talking about? >> Oh, I am sorry. Suzanne? I was afraid I lost mine. >> Within the diocese morning? >> I think we had copies in a pile. What you'll find on this is your current five goals. And we have added 1/6 goal around flooding. What I would like to do is begin with the current five. And then we will talk about the sixth goal. Michael Dyer, did you have a instruction? Why don't we take a vote to accept it with any changes that were made. And then we can just move on. Does that sound good with you? >> That sounds good to me. >> Several of you have made the same point. If I have not done this accurately, just say so, and we will rewrite it live. Goal number 1 is about efficiency. We want to review the codes to make sure that there are no code violations that need to be updated. I can just continue looking at that. Item B is to ensure that as people were buying property, that they are aware of any code violations that they are getting when they buy it. So that they can make a decision as opposed to being informed afterwards. The third is one of your staff can help move through these issues and expand this. In the last is affordable housing. With my brief summary, if there are questions that I will move on. If not, then I will ask for a motion to adopt. Any questions on any of those bullet points? >> Councilman Robbins? >> REPRESENTATIVE ROBINS: Do we have something that we can use. When we gave staff direction to simplify codes, did we have a list of things that was completed? >> I have seen an annual report. >> The things that we have done or in the annual report which was received when it came out on the agenda the first time. It is within the accomplishments. >> I can pull out things that are specific to that. Because it is buried within all of the accomplishments. >> Councilman Santiago? >> Do we really have to have be in there? I feel as though that should be normal operating protocol. Especially with working with our constituents for code violations. >> And by spelling it out it kinda seems like we have a problem in this area. You hear about code violations here and there. But I don't think it's elevated to the point that it has to be written in one of our goals. I think that should be normal operation with any issues in the county. I would before removing B. I don't think it needs to be in a goalsetting at all. >> If what you said was happening, I do not believe that it is. Property owners buy a property when they come to pull a permit. Are we allowed to run these kinds of businesses. Unless I am wrong, can somebody from the staff update me? >> Are they told exactly what they are? >> I think it depends on the person that they got it from. I could tell a neighbor of mine had to build a barn. He had to get an after-the-fact permit where he bought the property and inherits all of the code violation. It is a good question and it should be asked. I do think I've heard Council talk for. There are things that predate our codes. You buy an old piece of property with an old problem, and then it's gotten away for 25 years. Now you go to put a swimming pool in and we find out by the way, you have this violation on this barn that has been there for 25 years. There could definitely be some value for seeing if there is a statute of limitations. But it could also be a health and safety issue. This could happen for an entire house without a permit. Those are things that we do run into from time to time. How can we say that the house is safe if we know nothing about it. We do work with them. Because the entirety of the goal is compliance. It's not about punishment. We want them to be in compliance. The team really does try to help people. We have seen every kind of sad story. But sometimes our hands get tired. It can really be a part of even the Florida building code. Not our codes. So we end up with much less leeway when it comes to things of that nature. We are willing to continue to look. I love to streamline it. We have brought an outside vendor to growth management to look at certain aspects. This is more on the permitting area at the moment. And we will continue to be committed to have a safe and clean community. We truly want compliance. Not punishment. >> Councilman Santiago? >> REPRESENTATIVE SANTIAGO: The only reason that I suggest to remove this is because I think goalsetting is a big accomplishment that you want to accomplish. And when you have so many, they can often get lost in the process. I do really want to focusing on having a few core goals. They can be broad. I'm not saying that this is not important. I think we should work with them. I don't know if it needs to be in our goalsetting as a major problem. That's why I think the County should remove it. >> J Johansson? >> I am going down the same path as Mr. Santiago. If we have a through D written somewhere, then there is the assumption that this year we are concentrating on code violations. Which may be what someone said in his conversation. But I do believe it limits the efficient regulatory framework. I think last year we started and were on the path to look at all regulatory framework. Permits and how everything goes through the office. How everything gets permitted and code violations. Or code compliance definitely being one of them. And tons of other things. I think definitely we could put code compliance. And everything that goes with that. Then we can say we have a problem with this or problem with that. You talked earlier about city limits. I remember going out there and people saying all of this was done before I bought it. And he did not know any better. He bought something that someone had worked on forever. I think that PNC may just be too detailed. Code compliance and reduced barriers to affordable housing with continuing to make building more efficient. Something more efficient. And anything else that we regulate. In a perfect world, some of us want to share less regulation. >> A more fitting objective would be to make more fitting efforts with regulatory efficiency. >> So this whole goal has to do with code compliance. Which severely limits what I want the public to think is our efficient regulatory framework. >> Are you saying get rid of number 1? >> I'm saying be general with code compliance. And maybe keep affordable housing and add two more that are general in nature. >> George, isn't Clay coming back to us with more efficiencies? I am talking about those. So we can continue down that track. >> Since this is the goalsetting, could be pre-be a little bit freer with the microphone? If you're not okay with that, I get it. >> If I'm not looking at you, why you let me? >> Don Dempsey? >> It was a couple years ago I brought up the office. And hopefully that will cut down on the code violations. Because in this letter, what headway have we made towards getting this done? >> This is another term for him Stutzman. We do have a staff person housed in economic development. Who is available to any property owner or applicant for both code enforcement and any permitting or regulatory or interface assistance with county government. We receive monthly reports and have attached some to the Council's weekly report. I will make sure that we attach the latest monthly statistics from the work. That has helped not so much avoid code violations but how people resolve whatever the regulatory hurdles are where they need it. And it is generally being focused on those who do not have the benefit of a professional engineer. >> Is there any way that we could still move towards an official in the office. It is supposed to be a separate entity and serve as a watchdog amongst the bureaucracy. Do we not need that now? >> We are going into an entirely different world. I would need the full council to vote on that. Because that is different than where we are at. We are a year into this with our concierge service. It works tightly with Clay's office. Myself, I don't really favor another office. I am trying to keep some efficiency within the organization. >> Before we set this up, first of all, I think we were thoughtful in putting this outside the growth and resource management Department. We also researched another number of governmental agencies. City, county, and state level for how they created these efforts. So we followed the practices. If that helps you feel at all better about it when I am happy to sit down with you and explain more how we are doing this. >> Another thing that I would like to add is I will. What I have been saying. I do not want to reduce barriers for affordable housing. I would like to take Dee out of this. I don't want to incentivize her development. I don't know about a moratorium. But I think we hear from constituents about trying to slow the development process. I do not want to create more incentives. Development is still development. I don't want to do anything that creates an incentive to attract more development. The free market as we all know, the housing prices have come down. Rentals have come down. Everything has come down. To sit here and say we need to do something, I think the free market is already doing that. I don't think we need to put that as a goal. >> What I am hearing is that a and B, a number of you would like that one. Would you like to make a formal motion? >> To eliminate a and B and substitute efforts on efficiency. >> That is a and B. >> I could have a remedy. >> 's Beak came from me. The goal is efficient regulatory framework. I will use the city limits as an example. Perhaps it has happened other places. If a business pulls a permit, then you can run that kind of a business here. Then they had a complaint from the public so the code enforcement went out and they looked at it and then they told them you've also got two, three, and four code violations that happened 30 years ago from previous owner. I think to be efficient and fair to the business owner was considering investing a life savings into the business, they ought to be told when to pull a permit. However, you have these 30 year old code violations that need to be cleared up. >> Let's park on that for a minute. I am not picking on city limits. But, isn't there an obligation for a person buying a property or home or a business to do their due diligence? When I worked in Port Orange, people walked in all the time and said hey, I am going to buy this property. People would say a little of this and a little of that. Like if you were going to have a kitchen, you have to replace that thing because that thing isn't right. Those people would come in and ask all of these questions and get someone from the city or the county to go you can do it but it will cost you here, here, here, and here. I don't know if our concierge or our staff is willing to go out to that property. But we also have inspectors. I have a home inspector that goes out to the house and says this is up to code. I don't know who put in the 220 in the garage, but it is a hot mess. I don't know if a small business should have the obligation to do that. But I do know that there are many people in our county trying to do things for cheap. It could be one of the things that they are trying to get around. Paying for the due diligence. I think in the long run it saves. I don't know. I just think there is an obligation to a person buying. >> I agree. Maybe Danny has a way to solve this. But I do agree. All I am saying is when the business comes in and asks for a permit to run the business, through our computer systems we must have a record. Because code enforcement says here is these old code violations. Could they not be told this as part of their due diligence? >> Clay can correct me if I am wrong. But we do have an ability for a realtor for a property owner to come in and see confirmation if there is any active code enforcement violations. But what you cannot confirm from an office is ground truth thing. Whether what is on the property has been accurately permitted. You could do some of that via an assessment of aerial photography which we don't typically do when there is a question on whether there is an open violation or not. But even in aerial analysis will not tell you the full story. It often is not until inspector is on the ground if they can see whether or not an electrical service has been involved. >> What I think that I am hearing from council if I could perhaps offer some revisions to the subset of this goal, number 1 continue our efforts of regulatory reform and efficiency. Beh, continue to work with property owners to resolve issues during the permitting and code enforcement process whenever possible including enhanced concierge/embedment services. Those would be my revisions. You are all debating B. so I do not want to presume that I can assist with your decision. >> I think that I like that. But let's hear from Councilman Robbins. >> Thank you chair. Sometimes our sites are a nightmare to navigate. Sometimes we can pull up our own property and pub. In that is linked to our zoning. I think it is four or five layers into the property page where you can pull this information up and it will give you a disposition of who called it in, the date and time and things of the such. I do find merit in the things that you're saying. We often get calls where a son gets a piece of property where there was a bar and put up 30 years ago and now it's trivial. And you have to knock this thing down before you sell the house. To me I think that is ridiculous. If we want to make a policy decision, we can put it on the agenda and say let's put a time limit on some of these case-by-case instances of five years. We had an incident where a guy put a blocked building up for decades. Now the kid is trying to sell it and he can't because of the title. But if we want to look at a time limit, I think it is totally separate from this. I think there is merit. But we cannot forget that we cannot be a mother and father to everyone. You do have a level of responsibility. So let's make it as transparent and as easy as possible. Maybe incorporate this a little bit easier to put something directly on zoning if it is not there already. >> Thought would solve it for me. I think we will always have the problem. We talked about yesterday. Someone buys a house and the realtor didn't tell them that the house was built without a single permit. We will always have these cases. Some realtors just want the fee. So there's nothing that you or I could do about it. But that would solve the problem. >> I think there is merit to finding solution to it. >> I am willing to go down this path. But let's strip it from the goal section. >> So will we change it to continue the efforts? To continue to work on property owners to keep it resolved. To improve website access to the information into a policy consideration with time limits? Suzanne, as someone getting that? Because I simply cannot write that fast. >> Delta. >> I am okay with removing it. >> And we can make an item if it needs to be? >> I'm hearing a majority for remove. So we removed. Let's go to goal number 2. we have talked about this every time I been with you. One of the rules is a five minute rule. I would simply acknowledge that you set up for yourselves. You also have a proposed sequence on staff presentations to make those efficient so that we do not get into discussions prior to the public comment. We also had the idea of trying to enhance the public comment. To set the comment at 8 o'clock so you can have it occur before your regular meeting. So that you can move forward with these regular items. If they want to make general comments before then they can. Item C is about the state of the County address. Folks would like to see that more. With a status report of what is going on for all members to have the opportunity to give some input. I will ask Suzanne to talk about rhe purpose of growth. And to provide quarterly reports on your naming efforts. In an opening to the vehicle driving parking between ASP and the board walking. And that involves the state of Florida. That is a quick summary. Any questions or comments? >> Councilman Robbins. >> REPRESENTATIVE ROBINS: For the beach drive we have been over this every year for the last three years. I do understand the points of view. Would it be better suited with getting it to our legislature and putting it where it belongs. >> We just had a legislative update two days ago. And we already did our legislative updates. If it is an idea, I would like to discuss it. >> It is on the coming agenda. >> Just to refresh the memory, as I understand it, the discussion is still whether or not your board wants to ask the state to consider to change it. There is more than just state legislative issues that need to recur. There are things that need to occur locally. I think it was Mr. Reinhart who made a motion to support. But I don't think we have had erection from council where you wish to go on that which is what I think the discussion was intended to yield. >> I think we should leave it for the first quarter. >> Troy Kent? >> REPRESENTATIVE KENT: My question was on B. enhance public comment options. I have had people reach out to me and say we appreciate that. And it sounds like you want to enhance public comment options. Before the individuals that work, getting here at 9:00 is a problem. Getting here at eight will shut down more public comment. So I do not know if I am on board with that. I also don't know how it would look. It would be here at 8:00 a.m. to listen to public comment? >> Can self-correct me. Wasn't this president in the past? >> From my memory it was it: 30 to nine. There was awfully people that showed up. And then the meeting started promptly at nine. So it was really outside the meeting and the inside is as it is today. I think at one point they may have adjusted it to start at nine and then start the meeting at 9:30. That was another variation. But in both of those cases, the idea was that you had your open comment but the meeting started promptly at nine. Back then we had a lot more land use items as well. And we were trying to stay on track with all the people who are coming in and trying to keep on some sort of scheduled time. Whether it was before lunch or after lunch. >> Was the full council there at 8:30? >> What started out was the chair. As time grew on, more and more started attending. >> So only the chairperson was there in the public was there just talking to the chair? >> It was actually named the chairs public comment. I technically wasn't part of the meeting. Then it grew over time. The meeting had not started. >> I appreciate the background. My first time ever in these chambers was two years ago when I got sworn in. I had to be walked in by staff because I did not know. I never came to that or participated with just talking to the chair. I don't know how I feel about that. >> And I will give you one other thing that happened. One of the reasons that it did get pulled into the meeting was many times it would only be a couple of comments. So what would happen is say it started at 8:30. By 8:40 it was done. Then you had 20 minutes before the meeting started. You could have gotten started on some of those items if it had been within the meeting. It used to occur during the little gap between the public comment in the actual start of the meeting. >> Chairman, just my thoughts. We have given ourselves time limits and staff time limits. We have asked attorneys to follow within land-use issues. We have given the meetings a time limit. I feel like if it's not broken don't fix it. I'm fine with keeping things the way that they are instead of just the chairman sitting appear listening to comments. >> I don't disagree with you with keeping the time limit. However, I think this was inserted in here to try to be more efficient so that the meetings are not drawn out. I will take this opportunity to share what has happened is there have been these huge topics that have drawn out our meetings. I may have wrongly selected the timing to try and suggest that we reduce the amount of time during these hot topics. But perhaps instead we adopt a rule where if the chairman has more than 10 requests to speak on a specific item, that we reduce the time to two minutes per person. To allow each person to just have the efficiency to allow everyone to speak and make the meeting flow as smoothly as possible. What you often hear and in two minutes you can typically say what you need to say. We started hearing a lot of really repetitive stuff. Even the individuals that are speaking, the past two minutes they really start repeating. Just to be efficient, I am perfectly okay with leaving it as it is. But perhaps we could have a role for that. >> Currently, our roles say that for public comment there is an hour limit. Which is why when I cheered the one meeting and we got to the hour, I asked the Council if you are okay. I think it went on for almost 3 hours. We did that because of the hurt that our people were feeling. So we do have it in place. I do see what you are saying. >> And just so you know, this does provide you can reduce the time of public input. If you did want to stick with the 60 minute then you could do that. >> The reason I'm doing it now is because it's hard to do it when you have a full audience. If we were to adopt the rule, then it is clear that we in the beginning of this topic. We will dictate that were going to reduce the time to two minutes. To give more efficient time so that we can make the decisions. >> Chairman, if you don't mind then there should be a little leeway with this. My concern with that is the perception that it gives our constituents. But we don't want to hear that because we are cutting their time down. When I first got elected, there was no time limit. You could come up to the podium and talk as long as he wanted. I thought the three minutes would be terrible but it was one of the better things we did. There is a flipside to that. I just for the caution to the wind about if we make it to instead of three it could be perceived as being negative. >> I positioned it in a different way. I positioned it to give everyone the opportunity to get through this. There were some people who left our meeting when we had people in the chambers. And again, no disrespect to any of the speakers. But you could get through what you had to get through in two minutes. The reality is a lot of it is repetitive. >> I am not criticizing either one of you. Just the very title of it to enhance public comment. This does not enhance it. It stifles it. I think it sounds a horrible message to the people at whom displeasure we work. These are our employers. They elect us and then we tell them we don't even have to be here when you come. You can come before our meeting and speak. That's horrible. Deland is trying to do that now and they just had a mutiny at their last meeting. The public hates this idea. I think it's a terrible idea to start a general meeting. I don't think we need to change anything. I don't even like having an hour as a rule. I think of our employers want to come and they have things to tell us, then we can direct the more to speak on particular items instead of at the beginning of the meeting. And that would probably stifle it to. I am adamantly opposed to starting the meeting before. Jay Johansson? >> REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSSON: I think the one hour, the question that we have to ask ourselves is is this a public forum or is this a business meeting? If it is a public forum then we need to sit back and listen to all the people for as long as it takes. I can do that. I'm not opposed. If it is a business meeting, then let's stick with the nine – 10 o'clock. Make it known at the beginning that we are going to listen to X amount of people at two minutes. You have the yellow slips. You know how many we have. At two or three minutes. And whoever we don't get to, you are welcome to stay or come back at the end and watch. You can go about your business and come back 30 minutes prior. I don't know about you guys, but I will stay and listen to the rest of them at the end. But I think we have an obligation to the public and an obligation to the agenda items as well. When we drag our feet, the items go past lunch on big issues. I don't think that is appropriate either. We have an agenda on a piece of paper and it needs to be executed. And I think we need to execute it starting no later than 10 o'clock based on the other rule that says we will not be here for more than six hours. If we are at the public comment at the end of six hours, and someone wants to get up and leave, but maybe that is what you do. Johansson will not leave. I will tell you that. But maybe it's something that we discussed. I think that's just what we have to determine. If this is a forum where we get stuff done or if it is a business meeting and we take public input at the beginning. I think we can do both. I think we have to limit the first part to an hour and then pick up the rest at the end. >> County attorneys, is the one hour rule now? Why am not enforcing it. >> And I will add chairman that there will be a couple ways to skin the cat if we choose to stick to an hour. By forwarding people that we will go for an hour. Because council is right. At the end of 59 minutes, if you're the last one the rest of us wait until 12 o'clock this evening. I don't think any of us want to do that. We have to be consistent and forewarn everyone. As you do with a lot of the other admin items that you discuss at the beginning of every meeting. I think it is important if we choose to do that moving forward. >> Just said chairman? >> Denny has been waiting for a while. >> Chairman, you may want to buy a lottery ticket. Where the majority of our issues come down to, and please no one take this personally, if anyone needs policing, it is us. We are our own worst enemies. Sometimes when I'm sitting on the couch, I will watch another Council meeting because the first thriller was not enough. With that being said, in between the agenda items, we have a tendency to talk. We do not follow decorum. German, this is your show. But some of these things are why it is important to get through this so that you give us an inch just like children. And we want to take a mile. The mile is equal to our time. And if we want to be more efficient and effective with handling the citizens business, then we can pack the chambers. But there is more issues in the county and what is here in front of us. In the beginning of the meeting, I think we should announce it. Public comment nine – 10. If you are here for an agenda item, you can speak now. If you don't get to it, then we speak during an agenda item. We have cell phones and desk phones. Laptops, tablets. Free hotspots and probably passenger pigeons if we wanted it for our people to communicate. And we all answer our emails. If we want to perfect us, we have to hold ourselves accountable. And we have not been. That is why I said this at the beginning of the meeting. We need something on the screen just like request received. Robbins once, Kent, twice. That way we are allowed to minutes but not 50 bytes of the Apple to take jobs back and forth at each other. You use your time and you have two or three minutes or whatever it is. But cut it off. We will never get anything done and we are doing a grave disservice to our people. >> I can agree partially with what Mr. Robin said. With the effect that sometimes this just goes on and on. Because sometimes there are members whose closing comments are 30 minutes. An hour. And it is just like goodness gracious. It's definitely something that each of us could work on. But chairman, my two cents is if it is on the printed agenda, though that is when the public should speak on it. If they want to speak on something on the printed agenda and that is when we can do that. But if they are talking about something and I think that it is imperative to interrupt him and say that is on the agenda I will hang onto your card and call you during that time. I would also like to let it be known that we have an hour for this. Because Mr. Johansson is absolutely correct. This is a business meeting. We have two times a month. And we have to shoot through $1.4 billion of taxpayer money to get projects done in this community for our residents. We don't want to violate our rules. That's another reason that these things kind of go on. >> On your monitor, can you see the names of the people that want to talk? I do not want to take your place. >> If we want to limit comments to one hour, and we don't want to leave someone hanging here in the wind, is there any way that we could set something up where we cut off public comment card submissions? Look no more public cards submitted after 9:00 a.m.? Then if we have 30 public comment cards, we divide that by the hour. If they want to use the 60 minute window than they can. They get a chance to speak an equal time and we still have them at the one hour. I don't know if that would work. That way everyone could have a shot at talking. >> I do think your current rules allow for it. Also, you have a second public input at the end of the meeting so that folks, if they wanted to, they could speak then as well. We may have some times where people speak out both times. >> I think if we figure out how long we want to keep public comment open then we can do that. And then justified it by the number of common cards submitted. With a maximum of three minutes. But if it's 10, it's three minutes. If it's 30, two. That way no one is left out. >> I think it's complicated. >> I am one vote. >> I think the rest of them would prefer to set to one hour. And then if there are 30 people, and there's an iron furnace to each of you. >> I'm not saying to cap it at an hour. But if that is the number that we pick. Divided up by the number of common cards and give each of these people that amount of time. >> In the majority says that it is an hour. I would not make about every meeting to what the time is going to be. >> The rule is currently one hour. >> I hear the majority saying a one hour rule. >> I will strike the rest as an item. >> I will just say, we also have people that come in and they speak to minutes and 58 seconds. Because they wrote the speech out at home and practice in front of the mirror. Because they want to be good stewards of our time. And they don't want to break our rules. That bugs me a little bit. Because we have people that have dedicated and worked hard on this and they don't want to come in sounding uneducated. >> Okay. We stick with the hour rule. Whether there is more than 20 people. If not, at that point then we leave it to the discretion of the chair. Whether it is everybody or only so many people getting to speak. But the rule is one hour. I feel that we just accomplished absolutely nothing. I'm talking about regarding this topic. Which is saying status quote next topic. We spent 30 minutes talking about this and accomplished absolutely nothing. >> We need to say okay public, this is our time limit. The rest of the Council does not want to hear your complaints. It's happened in the past and I don't want to see it happen again. But we just need to enforce the rules. >> This is 2025 so I'm turning a new leaf. You are the leader of the meeting. I think what we need to do is if that is the rule then you enforce them. I think that is the role that you should play and we should avoid putting anyone in a position to say that I want to shut you down. The rules are adopted and no one should blame you individually. This is what the body decided. And we are operating under these particular rules. That's why I think we did not accomplish anything. If we are saying these are the rules and hold us all accountable and blame no one other than the body. >> I think you also have a copy of that as well. >> If that is the decision of the Council that we hold it to an hour, and I have no other option. It just seems wrong to me. This is a business meeting. The part of this is a public forum. It's a business meeting for our constituents about the business that they have elected us for. If they take the time to come in and talk I think we need to listen to them. >> We can do it for an hour or during the agenda item. >> Most of the people that come here work. At a night meeting they will not be here to talk again. >> So if we could get the meeting done quicker, they are not here until the end. It may be at the end of the meeting in three hours. It is up to us. We need to do a better job of policing ourselves. >> J Johansson. >> REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSSON: >> I am waiting for Charlie. >> Chairman, I am still on this one. I am glad to hear you say that this is a business meeting. I don't think it's wrong. I think we set the expectations and the standards are that we have an hour in the beginning. And if not, it was a shock to me that we offered to public comments. As always here and typically does that. But it does give the opportunity if there is something that they want and they can make sure that they tell us. Then they can get here a little bit earlier and fill out their card to make sure that they can be heard. As well as teams and soon meetings and phone calls and emails and visits. There's a lot of ways to contact us. As a collective body, but individually. >> If anyone wants to speak on this item see? >> Yes. I'm a big fan of this. This has grown into a too much for me. I think we need to bring it back into chambers. And just report on the goals as we have mentioned them. And not let it grow into a big deal. There is an opportunity for us to do our state of the county. But it gets put on video and everyone can go back to it and resort and take a look at it as they see fit. I know cost wise but it is neutral and we have sponsors. There are many people that cannot and do not make it. If you go to these events it ends up being a Who's Who. We can better do it right here. That is just my two cents on that. >> Whoever else wants to comment, I disagree with that. I do understand your reasoning. But I think part of, and I could be wrong Mr. Ryan can perhaps correctly. I think the staff looks forward to it. I think it's a celebration of the county that allows us to shine to people from outside who may come to the ocean center when they see what we have available. I think people love to see how well our center is run and how good the food is. I think it's part of our marketing for the County. I know if you sent it or I heard someone say it. But it is kind of a Who's Who. But it is fun. The people who come and enjoy it don't have to come. But they do of their own accord. And I think it's something that allows our staff to shine. So I like that if Don wanted to go from east to west, then that's great. And we get to show off the center. But I would really be sad to see it become a report in chambers. I think it's a bigger deal and I think the county deserves the bigger deal. >> Chairman, I cannot agree with you more. It is a big deal. We have sponsors and one of the ocean center staff told me that it didn't cost the county anything. And then you hear members talk about stuff time to create the presentation. But it is a way to showcase what is happening in this county for a year. I am always appreciative that it is not just the chairman's show. I do appreciate that those who want to show up to. And they can go to this event and even have a great lunch. This is something that is done exceptionally well. And we have the facilities to do it on the east end. I truly thought that it went well last year. I am for keeping it how we are doing it. >> I agree with you on this one Mr. chair. >> Councilman Reinhart. >> I go from vice chair to Congressman. >> Is a County employee for 30 years it was definitely something that we looked forward to. So no disrespect gentlemen, but I think that it does give the chance for staff to shine when you talk about not too many people showing up, there was a lot of people in Deland and a lot at the ocean center. So if they don't want to go, then don't. But if you want to watch it on the video, then watch it on the video. >> So we are wanting to move to the current practice? >> Are you all familiar with this? Or do you need Suzanne to send you a quick background? >> I will send you an email of how we are doing it. >> We have a member of the public wanted to speak to that? We are all for regrow Volusia. I should have kept you advised on your naming rights. >> I will take it off the goals. I think that staff should probably just do that anyways. For quarterly reports on human rights. >> Let's go to goal three. You did a today. Can you give direction about that. I did hear all of it. Is b part of that also? >> I just want to make sure. This is your baby. But you brought this to us. I just want to make sure that this does not cut slipped in somewhere where we are missing it. Are we talking about continuing the development? >> I think it's for motocross as well as side-by-side's. Basically trying to find a location for all of these activities. >> Item C is about the ocean center. You currently have a study underway about the capacity to do that. So what is happening to my understanding. The next item is about the dog friendly section which is coming back to you for decision in the first quarter. >> It should be before May. Because that is when the 18 month time period was. >> It is sunset with the requirement of action to be taken. >> So it really does not need to be a goal? >> No. Because it's going to happen. >> The former vice chair has to do some convincing. >> That boy Dudley is coming in that day! >> Let's go to goal for please. County funding for team Volusia. Then we got a couple of items about taxing policy. >> A is just a policy thing. >> We are partially funding them now right? Do you want to continue the level of funding or not is really the question. >> That seems as though it would be an agenda item. >> It is a budgetary issue. >> The only thing that I will say is if we're going to talk about changing things, we owe it to some of these groups sooner rather than later. In this particular case, team Volusia is a partner of ours and they are a recruiting arm of our development. They need to know is there staff depended on it? I don't recall discussion on that. >> So the discussion does not need to be a goal. >> I think it is a worthy discussion. >> This could be a stop item follow-up. We have a couple of more substantive things to talk about here. >> I is to do with rollback funds. This is one where you keep your infrastructure projects. That was the path that the commission chose. They generated significant dollars. >> As an overall goal, we should have a statement of being good fiscal stewards. Not putting us in a corner on positions. I don't like that. But to put this as a goal, I'd rather have a statement that talks about being good fiscal stewards and keeping taxes as low as possible. Goal number 4 is to do that. >> I do not like I, II, or III. I just want to see if you want to get things off or not. >> Is the state of Florida talking about getting rid of property taxes altogether? >> Going to a consumption tax? >> I don't know. But I would like that discussion. >> That this was put in here to give Ryan direction. Because for us, budget time is here. We start the process now. So if we do not discuss it here, and I would bring back an item where we would need a little bit more direction. Where does he really want to go? I think the way that this is set up was to give some options. We know that is not approved. That we really hold it down as we go into the year. But if the message could be, it does make my job easier. If the message could be to all the department heads that this is what we are shooting for, then maybe it could mean a lot less on the cutting room floor so to speak. Because through the years, we have gotten pretty good at removing stuff out of there. But if they know to not even ask, and it does save us some time. >> For me, I would take the approach to go from what we want to get done. We have some big ticket items. But we need to start from counsel. I think this is what they want to get done. And given the current landscape, this is what your options are for the millage. I do not subscribe to the process of saying 10 percent across the board. What is our mission? This is what it is going to take to accomplish what you want. Then we start saying maybe not this or maybe not that. >> Every elected official wants lower taxes. Until we have a stormwater problem. When you say well back 15 years ago. So I don't want you to be rolling back with a flat millage or increase millage. We have some important things that we need to do. And we don't know how much we want to do. If we want to buy a sports complex, it may cost us $40 million. It could cost this could cost us 5000. And it's a ton of difference. So yes, we do need to give some guidance. But as we get to goal number 6, it will become clear that we may or may not want to spend money on fixing problems that may involve the general fund. Truth be told, how much of our general fund is paying people? >> A good percentage of it. So it has already been negotiated. So we just need to trim around the edges and give some good guidance. I think the goal in it of itself. Do what you always do and give us the best budget that you can get. And no, I do not want everyone's desk to be falling apart. But if everyone's desk is falling apart, then we need to just mind our desk. >> Mike and I have agreed to share a desk! Because we get along quite well. So we will share an office. >> I think you and your team have done a wonderful job of coming up with a good and compact budget. That we do not need to lock you into something. This is every penny that you can find. But the County manager told us that Ryan needs a new direction. Please bring this back as an item. Or are you okay with what was just said? >> I will hang a little bit of my hat on what Mr. Johansson said. We will go and do that. But I will probably come back with an item. Because he may be a little bit more detailed as we get a little bit deeper. Because as you say, I recall things from a couple years ago. I think all of you will hurt me if I bring it up. But when they did the many budgets of all the departments, I think you are all very much veterans with this government. So we do not really have to do that. A lot of that was education about what each of our areas are faced with. I think there are areas where we would have to get some direction. So we will go from there. >> Don Dempsey? >> REPRESENTATIVE DEMPSEY: I don't know if this is parallel. But as these studies are coming in, I am dealing with these flooding issues. I do not like raising taxes anymore than the next person. But if we need to raise taxes to cure this problem, but I am open to the discussion. I would like to look into some of the solutions are basically that we have to do land acquisition and create more stormwater, and I would like to have a plan for what kind of cost that would be and what kind of tax hike we would have to impose to do that. I would like to have it somewhere in the budget if we do need this money, that we can have a way of getting it through bonding or whatever. But I'd like to have it as a quick process to a quick fix once we can figure out a solution. >> And George, there are lots of what if scenarios. We have $134 million coming from Milton right? So where we spend that may determine how the budget looks. We do have some of these federal programs. I can tell you again perhaps I have mentioned before that we had been through multiple hurricanes and storms. And we have probably gotten more by far. More federal help than we have ever had before. Some of these things we had the exact kind of flooding but no money afterwards to deal with it. Now we might have a fighting chance with some of the stuff that we have out there. >> The current management practices are also being very conservative with the big ticket items. >> Let's go to item C. this is a continued effort. This is the cost prevention strategy. How do you prevent all of these things? >> Was there a way to do long-term prevention strategies? Because it says for the jail. Can it be just with a period? The jail is great. But these are council goals. Let's keep it general. That way when we come up with a good idea when we do it anyhow. Then we can go below see as we move on during the year. This can be something else that we find with the cost reduction strategy. >> You use the word jail so now Pfister Reinhart wants to speak. >> VICE CHAIR REINHART: I agree. I don't think it should just be about the jail. It should be in general. I had a discussion about the general fund and what the tax dollars pay into. One of the biggest lack of this was jail operation and jail food. And that is why we are looking for these ways with these long-term utilizations. Don Dempsey is about motocross and we all have different interests. Item D is coming to you. These are the fiscal analysis going on. So if that is acceptable, I will allow that. Goal number 5 is the permitting process. Again, you have a study that you alluded to earlier. I'm not sure when that study will have progress on it. But you are going to have a report. >> I think we should remove it. I think things are in place. I think staff has already implemented testing. >> Let's go to the goal here. Next week you are discussing a moratorium about flooding. We do want to talk about how the county can take a facilitative role. We want to be able to help people and keep these things going. And then we see under their very specific action that we comprise. So I would like you to look at this and make sure that there is not something missing. We want to capture all the ideas that you have. >> I think for a goal, a lot of this we will cover on the 14th. How would the council feel about having a goal to make the county more resilient? >> Is a very generalized goal. >> We will not be working on this for the rest of our lives. >> I think resilience is not just flooding. I like it a lot. >> We could do resilient against all disasters are financially resilient. >> That could be your A, B, C, and D. >> I think resilient County could do it disasters, flooding, financial, and whatever else you come up with. >> Can ask another question? I'm thinking as we are going through this, as I get to items, every item that we have has a strategic goal. The previous councils have come up with. How much of a challenge would it be on items to have which one of our six goals are here? >> All it would have to say is goal number 5 article number 6. >> Do you mean on the agenda? >> I don't want to do it just to do it. I wanted to be helpful and keep us on track and show that we are chipping away at the goals. >> That we put something in there during the staff report? >> Those are called strategic goals. >> So the short answer is yes. We could come up with a way. There are some things that may be a stretch. But I do think a lot of it is just standard business items. For instance, when we did the Napa parts program, it was a direct cost saving measure. And it probably would have been a goal with efficiency and effectiveness. We could do something like that. >> Mr. chair, maybe about an hour or two ago, I mentioned a hierarchy gold comment of promoting economic prosperity. I still want to find a place to put that. Where it could fit multiple areas, but I personally like that kind of vision. With letting people know that we are also focused on economic prosperity. Like when we eliminated the business license tax. That one got rid of the CST. Promoting economic prosperity. The policy initiatives that we do can tie into that. >> That would be a simple thing to make it the seventh goal. >> I'm fine with that. >> Another goal to promote economic prosperity. >> If Troy is for it, I am good with it. >> I think it's something that we may have to continually think about. >> I will add 1/7 goal in. >> Mr. Chairman, let me just make a comment. There are two advantages to this. One for staff if it makes the strategic plan seem very real. We often put things on a shelf and the never think about them. But every two weeks you could be thinking about it. And it could also communicate strongly that you are strategic business leaders. Here is where you were working on the plan. So it helps to ask the question of why you are doing something. And the answer could simply be because. I think it really makes your plan much better for everyone involved in it. >> Counsel, any other questions for the day? Thank you very much for the time. It's been wonderful to spend some time with you. Always a pleasure. >> I moved to adjourn. >> Public participation. Do you have any? We have four. Where is he? I do not see the other person. Is he here? >> He had wanted to submit it for the first public participation unfortunately he submitted it too late. After the public comment portion was over. >> John Nicholson? >> John Nicholson, Daytona Beach side. Too bad I could not talk during the 8:00 meeting. It was under Lewis. I should appear twice. I did not get to speak because if you are late, then you have to leave. No one is sitting here at 8:00 and off they go. If you do not make it, you wait 12 hours until you can speak in the evening. I do not suggest that you have it. The cloak sat there. No councilman, no mayor nothing. But you get very few people to speak. If you go an hour ahead of time and then you have to twiddle your thumbs for 57 minutes, they simply do not come. I just don't recommend it. You also had an internal audit for financial reasons to make sure that the money was coming incorrectly. There was also an audit for personnel. I've heard it several times that we go to a 27 percent tax increase. During that time we looked at the staffing and we asked all of the department heads to see who could be let go. The finance department let go of 40 people. You may want to consider someone coming in. Do you need the 700 janitors? Could you cut them down? Also, your pay raises. When you do percentages, it's a lot of money. When I got a pay raise when I was working at a plastics firm, my $0.25 gave me less than two dollars a week. But the salesman made 12,000 a week because of percentages. So the percentage that you are doing, remember this is one fourth of $1 million. It is also 40 percent on top of that. Because it is benefits. You are talking 100 – $200,000 fare per person which truly adds up. Also, which driving is a few people on Main Street. If you ask the hotel years, they will say absolutely not. Most of the residents will also say no. Because we have gone through this. Take a look at it. You cannot be honest. Because when you are honest, then it will just never be forgiving. So just watch what you're doing. >> That is the end of public participation. We will move to County. >> I would be remiss. When the VAB came up, I did not direct you that one of you needs to be voted as the chair and the vice chair. So we just need to get back on the record. >> I nominate David Santiago as the chair. >> Called to question German? >> Is not your discussion? All in favor say Aye. >> Aye. >> There are none opposed. >> Can we call you Mr. Jenna. >> Is that correct? Is that what we're doing? I only say it because the statute is slightly specific. >> Who was the second on that motion? >> Someone hollered second. Will you take the blame Mr. Reinhart? Now we are ready for the County manager? >> Okay. I do have some very good news. Tonight is Jeff Dunham at the ocean center. And that is a sellout. 8000 tickets. >> He is a comedian. >> They will sell a lot of beer to one day? Things are popping. And people are doing great jobs. These are important. Because they tend to build on each other. If we start showing that we can pull 7000, that goes a long way from when we try to get other acts. But they see that we are successful. Great job to Michael Ryan steam who has teamed up with ocean center on our marketing efforts. I think that goes a very long way. In the fractured marketing out there, it is everyone's job to get the word out to everyone. We are very proud of what they have done. And that is it. >> Mr. County attorney? >> No thank you Mr. chair. >> County Council and we will start with David Santiago? >> I just want to remind Mike to call Danny tomorrow to call around 7:00 p.m.. >> You have all reminded me that Friday is a common day for me to take calls. So I will try to spread it out. >> You spark something on the marketing stuff. If we could, unless the Council objects, if we could get an update from Cyrus and his team on the recent changes that our tourism boards did with the budgets and how that is going with being deployed. Additionally. So that went out under the timeframe. But other than that, I am done. Thank you Mr. chair. >> Cyrus, as long as you are standing did I mishear that there is one third route now? I thought I read that and I was quite impressed. >> Happy new year gentleman. Please pardon my lack of decorum. Yes. We are adding another route to Concord North Carolina it is just outside of Charlotte. It adds for more competition and opportunity for prices to come down with one of our legacy carriers. Embry's is doing fantastic. Right now the loads are about 74 percent. But we are in the process of working in the marketing plan using some of the money. So they have a specific way that they would like to have that allocated. We are working with them to make sure that it is successful. >> You obviously cannot tell us the name. But please tell us that there is someone else waiting in the wings that you are working on? >> We do have another carrier that will spend some time with us. So we have exchanged some pleasantries over the holidays. So they are hopefully saying that by the next holiday season they will be here. They are marketing the Midwest and we have been anxiously trying to bring them on board. >> What are you going to ask for more money for new terminal? >> Don't encourage. They will run me over! >> Maybe we look at him another gate if he behaves himself. >> I do like soccer fields. >> Thank you sir. Jake Johansson? >> REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSSON: Thank you. The only thing that I have is I would like to gather a consensus from council to start looking into how Volusia County can better support our veterans. I have been talking to Brad and a little bit Bob Watson before he left. About a program called Volusia values veterans. There are a few things that I think we could weed out of our ordinances, rules, and regulations that make it just a tad easier for veterans to get things here in the county. And that will be with all stakeholders. I will work with Bill Roberts in the coming months and with Larry Bartlett in his team. And then with the cities to really work hard to show our veterans how much we care here in the county. I would love to be the most military and veteran from the county in the state. But it is hard to do with no active duty basis here. But we do have space force just south of us. And I think we could do a little bit with regard to make that little bit tighter of a link. I think Tampa and Jacksonville will always care less. But as far as counties our size with our dynamics, I would like to be the number 1. with consensus, I would like to move forward with investigating how to do that. And with that will come some time and energy from Burbach and some of the other department heads. >> If that is a motion, I will second. >> Any discussion on the motion? Motion by Jake Johansson, second by Troy Kent. All in favor say Aye. >> Aye. >> Will Boeing's presence help with that as well? >> It is a multipronged approach. But I will put it under the economic prosperity goal that Mr. Santiago just mentioned for the mere fact that by and large, bringing veterans to our county ensures that they work hard and are trainable. Sometimes the resumes are just hard to read and fit people into. But that is the kind of thing that I want to do. I went to get our people to come here. The billing people have their people. But it is the rest of the batch. I need rest is a veteran. We need to draw more people like that into our organization and into the cities organizations. To get these people working. And that is not to minimize the rest of the people here in the county. But I think veterans are an untapped resource here. I run into them all the time and you say you just want a job. These people work their butts off and they are highly trainable. You can take a guy who is Eric Truman in a helicopter and make him a great employee. We just need to link them. And veteran services has had some conversations. I just think it's there to be tapped. And I would really love to top it and make sure that we are getting the right people to do the right things. >> Councilman Kent? >> Happy new year to those who stayed and happy new year to everyone. Jake, I love the way it sounds. I hope that some of your ideas are some substantial things for our veterans. I'm excited to hear what you bring to the table. As far as off-the-cuff sharing, thank you Councilman Dempsey in Santiago for bringing up the airport. It goes back to my comments with George and his evaluation. George has an uncanny ability to put the right people in the right positions. And Cyrus was one of those excellent hires. I hope that you are happy here. And your young family is enjoying Volusia County. It was all great news with what you shared. I give George and Suzanne a lot of credit with that. I say higher, but I could technically say steel. >> It is his birthday. >> It is not his birthday. The next item that I have is the ocean center tonight. 8000 selling out. We talked about making changes at the ocean center. To hear that Michael Ryan has teamed up and is working cohesively with Lynn Flanders is just wonderful to hear. Because we need to let everyone know. All of our surrounding areas. The ocean center is back for business. And we will change it from tall events a year to 40 events per year. And just be providing great opportunities. Our beach passes have had 55,000 participants sign up. 55,000. And we have had 9000 new permits issued. I hope we have wonderful weather. Because I think you all will see how wildly successful this is. And Monday, January 13th I have my district dialogue at Bicentennial Park. This is a county owned off beach parking thing. So make sure you get your pass. I want you to show up and enjoy. This meeting is open to the public. And we talk about anything you want to talk about. Don, your meet and greet sounded really great. With that, I will say good night! >> I did want to just add one quick thing. Since it has been much more successful, are we capturing the demographics? If we could get some demographics, where are our customers coming from? Is it just Volusia? >> Thank you Mr. chair. >> Pfister met Reinhart? >> Councilman Robbins? >> I just want to piggyback off of what Jake said. Jake, I don't know how in-depth you got it so far. But I would definitely be interested in your thoughts. I think a lot of veterans are disabled. Some not in some art. But anything to do with the disability or special ramps. Structures for may be the service dogs. I would be interested in waiving those fees. Thank you. I have nothing else. >> I want to wish everyone a happy new year. I want to thank the Council for starting off this new year even in our disagreements. I think it was a very productive meeting. And I made a huge mistake this morning. I did not think about it until after Troy got done. My family came and I did not introduce them. But the ones that were here, let me just shorten into this. I will not have many closing comments. Because I have to take on a part-time job. Over Christmas I was informed that three of them are getting married this year. We are taking donations. One of them is Ben who is getting married at Ponce Inlet at the beach. They have truly made it a pleasurable and simple process. But his fiancée was here this morning. I wish I would have pointed that out. All of my children are having a wonderful partners. But I am told I may have a daughter getting married. So the boys are on their own. They have to pay for their own wedding. If my daughter and her boyfriend who he dearly love has given her a pop top, and she has kicked him and said come back when you have a real stone. It is very exciting times in our family. And that, what you said about all of your assignments, our families truly to serve right along with us. And it is sometimes hard to remember that our first ministry is to our wives and children. We do this because we want to serve and we love the community. In the new year, I just want to encourage everyone. Don't neglect your family. I've got nine kids into left in the house. I never saw the state coming. I am a weird dad that didn't want to see the first on leave. I would have been happy to just keep adding rooms to the house because they love each other so much. And they're just so enjoyable. I am almost in empty-nesters. It's hard to do and you have nine kids. Happy new year. And we will see you on the 14th!