>> > CHAIR BROWER: Is the fire marshal here?  Is he happy?  It is 4:00 PM and we will call the special meeting January 14 of Volusia County Council to order.  This is a one item special meeting.  You will be given a time to speak.  I am going to ask you to only speak on this item.  It is going to be a long night.  I don't know how many of you signed up to speak.  I am assuming just looking at numbers that there is probably at least four.  [LAUGHTER] 
Let me tell you how the meeting is going to go.  We will have a Pledge of Allegiance first.  There is not an invocation and we will do the roll call.  Let me back up even though there is not an invocation, I have asked somebody from faith in the back to pray continually for us.  And then we will hear a presentation from staff.  The Council will ask questions.  No debate at that time just ask questions to clarify points.  Then we will hear from you.  From the public.  And then the Council will debate after we have heard from you.  I want to say one other thing quickly about your speaking time.  We are neighbors here.  Some of us have different ideas and different understandings.  But we are neighbors.  I am going to ask that you each of us treat each other like neighbors with respect for different ideas.  And that way we will come out with the very best possible outcome.  Don't boo each other.  Give everybody the same respect that you want for yourself.  Everybody will have a chance to give their point of view.  Let's do it respectfully and that will set much better groundwork for coming out with productive solutions today.  So if you would stand with me for the pledge of allegiance.  
>>  I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all.  
>> CHAIR BROWER: What a great sound to hear that many people.  We should have them sing.  [LAUGHTER] 
Let's not ruling it.  Crystal would you call the roll please?  
>>  Don Dempsey.
>>  Here.
>>  Mr. Johansen.
>>  Here.
>>  Mr. Kent.
>>  Here.
>>  Mr. Robins.
>>  Here.
>>  Mr. Santiago.
>>  Mr. Brower.
>>  Here.
>>  We have a full house, dais and a quorum.  I believe that Ben Bartlett will start us off with a presentation from County staff.  You know the issue and the item is a moratorium for solutions for flooding.  
>>  Good afternoon Mr. Chair, Ben Bartlett I’m the public works director.  I will give it a second.  Obviously, as you mentioned we are here today to discuss a county wide moratorium on development.  Part of the presentation that I'm going to be given today is going to be myself, Mr. Irving and from our legal department.  I'm going to start talking today about a little bit about why we are seeing some of the flooding that we have seen recently.  It is important to understand the why because that goes towards the solutions and having an understanding of what is causing the flooding?  I am talking about flooding and a no storm water management is a big part of flooding.  There's multiple variables that go into my we flood and storm water management is one of those.  You can have flooding that doesn't involve stormwater systems at all.  It could be River flooding or the river comes up and floods properties without any rain.  That is a possibility as well.  The first thing I'm going to talk about is something that we have experienced recently as large volume of rain events.  This graph right here indicates some of the large volume events that we have seen in the Volusia County going all the way back into the 1900s.  I have been out and about during both Ian and Milton and spoken to numerous homeowners that have experience flooding.  One of the common things that I hear is, I have never seen this type of flooding before.  We have had hurricanes and I have lived here for 20 years I have never seen water decide.  Those folks are right.  A large part of the reason is because of the two events Ian and Milton were extreme rain events.  18 – 20 inches of rain.  What this graph shows is the red line represents 11 inches of rain.  At an 11 inch of rain I use that as a delineated.  The floodplains based on 11 inches of rain and most of your stormwater systems are designed to handle 11 inch rain event.  There's not a warm water system and its County that is designed to handle a rain event greater than 11 inches in 24 hours.  If you look at the type of events we have had if you go back to previous century, we have had three events of note.  Two have approached 11 inch number and one exceeded it considerably back in the 20s. This entry since 2000, we have multiple storm events but we have experienced some really extreme rain events and experience four events that exceeded the 11 inch number that I mentioned is important for what we designed and the floodplain determinations are based on.  As you can see, we are seeing an increased amount in these occurrences.  Unless you experience tropical storm Fay and you were in debate, Orange City or Deltona in 2008, you haven't seen a rain event that exceeded 15 inches of rain in Volusia County.  You would have to go back 100 years.  When people say I haven't seen this much water in my house that is a good reason why.  Because frankly we have not had these level of rain events in Volusia County up until recently.  Another part of the rain kind of function of flooding is, your average rain fall.  On this slide, I have graphed the average annual rainfall in the DeLand area.  It represents 55 inches of rain which is the average annual rainfall amount.  Started back in 2000, you see a pattern of high years and low years.  What you see there is you get high averaging of rainfall and then you get a year where it is low or two years where it is low.  It allows the recovery period and so on.  In about 2006 – 2016, you see multiple years of below average rainfall.  Some that are right around the number and one in 2008 that was high that was tropical storm Fay.  We had below average rainfall for a decade in Volusia County.  I know this is DeLand but these numbers are very similar throughout the county.  In beginning of 2017, you can see the numbers jump into the 60s.  Since that time we have experience two years of roughly average but the majority of those years have been exceeding the average with 70 + inches of rain this year.  The average rainfall, what does that cause?  It affects the groundwater.  The recovery and not having those down years where the groundwater can recover what we see is an elevator groundwater table.  This represents the flow of blue Springs.  The flow out of blue Springs is measured because we are required the state requires a minimum flow level out of blue Springs to protect mainly the manatees but other animals that live in that area.  What you can see is it fluctuates but we are on an uptrend.  There's a better graph that shows a little better that the red line represents the minimum flow.  It was in a 140 area and has bumped up to 155.  As you can see, the Florida blue Springs which is indicative of the amount of groundwater was low for that period that I described in the previous decade and started to decline as we see increased annual rainfall amounts.  Obviously, it is pretty common sense to think that the rainfall and the amount of rainfall events that something that can cause flooding.  It can cause flooding that we have not seen before and standing water over time.  Those other factors involved that contribute to the flooding.  On the west side of Volusia County, we have a lot of what we call closed basins.  This is essentially Bowles caused by natural topography.  Where there is no outfall either the bowl fills up and spills over or never spills over and just days.  This particular location is down in orange city area.  It is unincorporated area of Orange City.  We have the Council approved a project to put in a force main and pump station to move some water out of here.  We have seen issues with this particular location specifically as it relates to closed basins.  A lot of folks said, we have had hurricanes.  We have had hurricanes and I didn't like.  I get it, you are right.  But not all hurricanes are the same.  Everything we see on the news is category one or category two is based on wind speed.  There's other factors like the amount of rainfall.  Unfortunately, we know there are other things that hurricanes can affect.  Hurricane Nicole was a powerful storm in terms of waves and not as powerful in window.  Hurricane Irma a few years ago 6 inches of rain over 24 hours.  That is an approximation of what the pond would look like.  We seem water over the road after that storm.  For the most part it stayed within an area.  18 inches of rain the same location and that is what happens.  That is a closed basin a bowl if you will jumping up the amount of rain using the location from 6 inches – 18 inches.  All of the water is roughly a 10 acre basin close to the location fills up.  That is an aerial photo of what it looks like after hurricane Milton.  The topography of the area you are in affects how your area reacts during these large rain events.  On the east side of the county, you have to deal with tidal impacts.  In the engineering world we call it the tail water.  If you have development in your development discharges to a canal or a river that is the tail water.  The tail water condition is important.  In the past in some areas when there is a storm and they model the storm, they assume a free-flowing tail water condition with the water can just leave.  We are seeing in the storm events particularly for hurricane Ian and Milton the tail waters were up because of the tides.  The tides come up and impacts the Halifax River and Tomoka River and all the creeks and the mosquito control canal on the east side of the county come up and flow in the opposite direction sometimes.  But long story short, it is no longer a free-flowing condition.  Your stormwater runs off more slowly.  It basically creates a temporary closed basin until the tides can cycle through.  A lot of the areas on the inside, you saw flooding at the EN and you saw flooding at the melting and within 24 – 48 hours it had completely flushed out.  That is the opposite of what you see on the west side with a closed basins and it stays because I know where to go.  In this kind of situation, you see flooding where the tides blood flow to the storm water system.  You can see what we call sunny day flooding.  That is a problem you see in a lot of coastal communities.  And finally, we are here today to talk about a moratorium.  A moratorium is a tool in the toolbox that pertains to development.  We have seen some issues with development.  First and foremost, we have seen pond failures.  We have seen and this picture is an example of a pond in orange camp.  It is in DeLand that failed.  It breached and the entire contents of the pond washed out and washed into the road.  That is something we have observed.  Seasonal high water elevation as I mentioned before, we went through a period of dry times and when engineers and Geotech go out to try to determine the seasonal elevation.  If you do it during a dry time you might get a little bit of a depressed number or a number lower than what we see in a rainy season.  That sets your water level for the development when you are designing stormwater ponds.  When you said that to go you can end up with a situation where during high average rain years and during storm events that water is too high and the stormwater systems do not function.  These observations that we have seen and as mentioned the tail water.  If the engineer assumes the tail water isn't correct or applicable that can cause problems in the stormwater system.  In Volusia County if you are in an open basin, you have the design a 25 year 24 hour event.  If you are in a closed basin, you have to design to an 11 inch rain event.  As I mentioned before, we have just experienced two storms that significantly exceeded those type of design storm events.  What does your stormwater system do when it encounters a storm event that dramatically exceeds the design level.  Is it measures for if the pond fills up, is the water going to press the pond and cause a blowout because it start washing away?  These are things that we observe and things that need to be accounted for.  And finally a lot of the flooding we have seen, we have legacy existing so for whatever reason the parcels has been deemed they are capable of being built on by single-family homes.  They exist in areas where there is a floodplain and exist in areas that are designated as wetlands or adjacent to low-lying lots.  When they come to build to current standards, they have to raise up because they have a septic system that has to be far above the seasonal high water table.  Or because they have to have the finished floor elevation above a certain level.  Even on the road are floodplain so that creates an existing parcel that is lower with the house on it and a vacant parcel they want to build up area that creates some issues from a stormwater standpoint that we have observed and discussed extensively.  Let's talk about solutions.  I talked about the why and the things that we have seen and let's talk about anytime something like this happened people want to know why it happened and what you going to do about it?  This counsel has funded almost $8 million in water and basin analysis.  Those are going to identify potential solutions and Dupree engineering and give us the roadmap to address a lot of the flooding issues that we have seen.  It is going to come with recommendations and capital projects.  Where we add additional storage volume, pump stations might be an option.  Tidal to address tidal on the east side.  We are also looking at acquisition of demolition of properties that are indefensible.  There is no engineering solution versus the acquisition that it makes the acquisition -- [INDISCERNIBLE].  I am going to let Clay talk about those in a second.  Counsel has directed staff to work with changes for low impact development standards.  I'm going to pass it over to Clay to let him discuss.  
>>  Good afternoon.  Clay Irwin, Dir. of resource management.  I am going to give you how stormwater is permeated in Florida.  Before I do that I have to give an overarching concept that is prevalent in both federal state regional and localized laws as are stormwater.  It's time to establish by case law because the drainage right doctrine.  It is really simple.  I live on top of the hill and what is going to hit the top of my property and it is going to flow.  I have the right to allow rainwater for my property to flow onto the adjacent property and so on and so on.  So therefore it is allowed the situation such that I cannot prevent my neighbor from training on my property and my neighbor cannot prevent me from training on their property.  Why bring that up?  It is a critical concept in all of the stormwater that we have to represent.  It is pre-and post development conditions.  When you see a design professional coming in front of you talking about how he has looked at the predevelopment condition and the flow and the quantities is the same in the post condition, what is he saying to you is if it is vacant land, I have looked at how much rainwater falls and topography, I know where it is going and I know how much is going out of there.  When you come in and develop it, I have to design it.  During that event the same amount comes off of my property.  That is the basic premise of what you see at the state level.  We do have that.  There are requirements at the state.  The Florida Department DEP has stormwater requirements.  After 40 tied to section 373.  The water management District have been authorized to implement regulations within the St. Johns River water management District.  There are five water management districts in the state of Florida.  These started off as drainage control organizations.  For training the swamps of Florida.  Now what you have true water management organizations that look at how the water needs to flow to maintain the natural flow that is set up for our lakes and groundwater.  The interesting fact is permitting from them wasn't districtwide until 1983.  Up until 1983 there was no St. John's River water management required for all of St. John's River District area.  At that time Volusia County had approximately 270,000 people living here.  That means there were areas that were built and constructed prior to the establishment of any stormwater regulations.  This ties into the statement that Ben made in his presentation about vested lots.  We have areas such as Daytona Park estates which were developed previously before we had stormwater standards.  They do not have roads in some areas, they do not stormwater facilities so that is where we have concerns from a regulatory perspective.  How will we make it better if we do not have that?  Prior to stormwater regulations, you push the water of your property.  You ditched it, put a canal in, you piped it to wherever the lowest part off of your property or the nearest body of water.  That is why you see the state of Florida came forward and put together the rules and regulations that the DEP and water management District enforced.  The Volusia County said, we want something else.  We want minimal environmental standards.  Part if that is going to be stormwater.  We see that impacting the environment and we have to do something about it.  We established it with all of the others.  As part of that, it says, we are going to come up with these minimum standards.  They are contained in chapter 50 in the code of ordinances.  They are for new development or major redevelopment.  They are focusing on the predevelopment and post development condition.  We have to coordinate with St. John's River water management District for these.  If you come in and develop land in Volusia County or any of the cities, you still have to get a St. John's River water management District environmental resource permit and whatever the local government requires.  There are some exemptions.  They are tied to existing development agricultural uses and those types of things.  And so one of the requirements that we had from our minimum environmental standards was that all of our cities had to comply.  When this was originally put in place, it was in 1988.  We actually had 14 cities.  Deltona wasn't around and neither was DeBary.  All 14 cities in 1988 comply.  We made amendments back in 1995.  I can tell you from my own personal research I have seen all 16 cities have minimum environmental for stormwater that are consistent with chapter 50 stormwater regulations.  There are in compliance with that requirement some of the cities such as New Smyrna Beach actually has some standards of what our minimum standards are.  What we are hearing from you as our leaders is, how do you make sure that the stormwater regulations are doing their job?  How do we ensure that we are protecting our existing residents from the potential impacts that would occur with new development?  What we have is the minimum standards and we cannot go and enforce our standards.  We will get into the issues of that later on.  What we have for this particular set of regulation is the ability of someone doesn't meet our minimum standards, we can take them to court to mandate them to implement them.  What our original government regulations look at is if it is under 1000 feet², we're going to handle it as a staff level and basically address the first inch of rain water that falls on it.  That is for a very small project.  I want you to understand 1000 feet² of impervious.  We do have additional standards within our own code for the unincorporated area.  So if you are in one of these closed basins and all the engineers use that term.  Basically a closed basin is a bowl.  It is a naturally occurring area with a topography has a low point and surrounded by a bunch of high points such as the water doesn't naturally flow out.  That is where we go from our normal standard which is a 25 year 24 storm event and raise it to a 100 year event.  Unfortunately, we have been using these terms and it is confusing to the public.  What is a 25 year storm event?  It is a way for us to identify a duration and an amount of rain that can occur.  As George Recktenwald -- [INDISCERNIBLE].  It doesn't mean you're going to get the storms once in 100 years.  It means the percentage that it could occur is one in 100.  You have three years in a row where you have 100 year storms.  We just saw it happened here in Volusia County.  We realize that we had to make some changes.  Two years ago he gave step direction to come up with low impact development standards.  We have gone through an exhaustive method of outreach and analysis and have finally made it through the environmental natural resources advisory committee and planning and land development regulation.  And we have a set of ordinance for that and it is pending to come to you all.  In that, we are integrating some of the technologies where instead of putting a pipe in the ground, instead of putting a swale that is only 5 feet wide and channeling to a pond let's look at how we can condense and make development smaller on the property and utilize natural features to provide for natural stormwater protection as well as filtration and improve the overall environment.  Those will be coming to you again.  There's a couple of different options and how that is going to affect.  We also have over the last seven months gone through the environmental and natural resources advisory committee with changes to our own stormwater relations that we have in chapter 72.  Part of that is really focusing on the technical aspects of what your staff reviews when a developer or their engineer comes in and submits an application.  When an engineer prepares a stormwater plan, they have to look at the topography.  They have to look at the soils, they had to look at the vegetation.  All if that is factored into how they can identify all of that rain landing on that with more impervious area can be held, treated, and released so it equals what it was before development.  We have identified that we want to see additional analysis of the geology.  In other words, we want more soil borings.  What we can do in estimation of tail water.  You heard Ben was talking about that.  Talk about whether or not the location of the pond and the references of development.  It wasn't properly constructed and it was washed out.  We are making sure that is likely to happen again.  We are looking at estimation of groundwater tail.  We are saying that we want to see more information about it, updated information.  When you think you have established the maximum groundwater, want to tack on 6 inches more as a safety factor.  Again, those are the summary of the changes that are coming your way to address some of the concerns we have heard from you and the residents of Volusia County.  Right now, I believe we have a tentative date of February 11 for potential meeting to review both of their standards at the same time.  That is going to take a little bit of time to go through the details to make sure everybody understands where we are coming from with those.  Also it gives you the opportunity to to give us clarity as far as the options are.  If that comes through again we are looking to see to try to get these things through as quickly as possible.  So you could have by the end of March or April all the rules and regulations and updated stormwater completed.  That is where we are in regards to how we will treat future development as it goes forward in Volusia County.  These are standards that are a part of the unincorporated areas regulations and the environmental resource committee will be taken up chapter 50 which is the countywide standards.  We are going to see if the changes identified for chapter 72 is applicable or more standards that need to be addressed.  Thank you.  
>>  Senior assistant county attorney.  This meeting is about a moratorium.  Let's drill down to basics.  It is a pause in the processing or issuance, plans and changes relating to land use.  It is based on a local governments police power issue.  Those development permits and building permits.  What is your police power?  It is your bill -- ability.  We have police power granted by the Florida Constitution.  The most ability has police power under their authority that is granted by the statute.  When the county legislation and city legislate sometimes, they come into conflict.  There is a set of laws and processes of how to deal with that.  Going back normally development permits which it is based off of, they must be issued if they meet all criteria.  The moratorium basically says let's put a pause on that as a legislative policy.  It is a planning to and it has been stated.  It is a legitimate planning tool that can be used to keep the status quo while the local government is processing a change to its rules and regulations.  It is a legislative act of a governing body.  What that means is that you have to find a rational basis.  You can't be arbitrary, capricious and development or implementing a moratorium.  The fundamental question of a moratorium is, it needs to be reasonable both in scope and duration.  We will get to the scope and duration.  Talking quickly about the ration there's no hard set rule of how long a moratorium can last.  There has been a bunch of cases looking at the fact by fact specific in his of a moratorium.  The one thing we can say is that there's no hard rule.  A moratorium is not a per se taking the automatically subjects you to a taking analysis.  They can be projected go through a specific analysis on the U.S. constitutional state law.  We live in Florida and it is a property rights state.  One of the key features is the Harris act.  Property rights act directly addresses moratoriums.  They consider it a temporary impact.  It says you can do a temporary impact but if your temporary impact last for more than one year, you may be subject to Harris liability.  What that means is, you can do it just be prepared to pay for it.  That is the prevailing feature for the Harris act.  It is a supplement to the normal fifth amendment takings jurisprudence where the government acts and deprives the property of all economic value.  The Harris access, I do not need all economic value.  I just need to show that the government action has enormously burden expectations.  It is a lesser standard.  We talked about reasonable scope that kind of means where you are applying it and how you are applying it.  This is a question of where you are applying it.  We go back to the inherent police power, the county has inherent power because we are a charter County.  What does that mean?  It means that under article 1G of the Florida Constitution a charter County can determine which ordinance prevails whether it is a conflict between the county ordinance and a city ordinance.  Our charter says, we have two situations where a county ordinance will prevail.  One is a unified beach code under section 205.  The county is the C word of permanent vegetation or approaches the counties rules apply.  It also says when the county sets minimum environmental standards under section 202.4.  Those will prevailed over a conflicting municipal ordinance.  Otherwise, section 1305 of the charter says, in the event of a conflict between a city and County the city ordinance prevails.  Those are the only two situations per unified beach code, minimum environmental standards.  Going on to the third bullet point.  The Constitution says, the charter says the charter County power is limited to determining which ordinance prevails in the event of conflict.  What it doesn't do and what it doesn't say, if the charter does not transfer services or authority to issue permits from the municipality to the county.  It means that the county doesn't commandeer the police power of municipality.  We don't issue permits, we don't set their zoning, we don't set their conference plan for land use.  Going back to the first light moratorium power is based off of the police power to issue permits.  Here the language of our own minimum environmental standards is limited in nature.  It is the power to set a standard and to have those municipalities comply with that standard through their own ordinances area it is not the power to start issuing permits on behalf of or in lieu of a municipality.  Going through the environment of standards, we have looked at some cases that mentioned the minimum environmental standards.  Fundamentally what it says is that the County Council shall establish minimum standards procedures and requirements that shall apply within all of the incorporated and unincorporated areas of Volusia County.  It prevails when in conflict however municipalities may be more restrictive.  In terms of storm water New Smyrna Beach have a more restrictive stormwater regulation than the minimum environmental standards.  Once again 202.4 is not a transfer service or enforcement authority.  We have at least one case from the circuit that said, even though it has a charter to set minimum standards the county does not possess control over the actual date to date enforcement issues.  What does that mean?  It means, we do not have the standard police power authority to issue permits under the minimum environmental standards.  The 202.4 is not a preemption of all land use.  It is not a preemption of the development permits or preemption of buildings.  We have another case that kind of points the fact that the charter 202.4 authority is limited.  Here we have the Fifth Circuit saying, when the county prevail in environmental standards it prevails when it sets the minimum standards for protecting the environment by prohibiting or regulating air or water pollution or destruction of the resources of the county.  This case, you have to set a standard first.  You set the standard in the standard prevails.  The issue with the moratorium, it does not set a standard.  The police power to limit rates so when we looked at it our opinion is that the charter language scope and authority is not support the moratorium.  We can definitely do it in in the unincorporated areas of the county.  You have a clear police power and you are the only entity that issues permits and has supreme land use.  That is very much clear.  However, the charter does not support the issuance of a moratorium in the unincorporated cities.  Going to reasonable duration when you do a moratorium or if you would like to do a moratorium there is no federal hard set rule on how long a moratorium would last before we get called in for a taking violation.  But once again we are in Florida.  The Harris act is more restrictive than the federal standards.  It says, a temporary impact to property that exceeds one year can be a burden and a basis for property rights violation and be a basis for a liability.  That is clear which is why you see moratoriums not last more than one year here in the state of Florida.  Edgewater most recent moratorium lasted one year.  They are aware of the same one year limitation law for the establishment of a moratorium.  Going back to reasonable scope.  A good moratorium if you want to propose one will have a strong relationship and rational between the application and the public health safety.  What does that mean?  It means that when you are applying moratorium, what functions you are suspending should be limiting in nature.  Only limited to the necessary to carry out the purpose of the moratorium.  In other words narrow applicable ability.  That is what the courts are looking for in terms of a moratorium that will withstand a kind of impermissible taking or due process violation.  It can't be arbitrary.  When you start including or excluding things from a moratorium that could potentially be subject to challenge.  Here is a case where they set a moratorium based on the lack of adequate public water supply.  They applied it to townhomes and condominiums and multifamily.  They excluded things like carwashes and laundromats.  There are large users and consumers of water.  What are you doing, that is completely arbitrary.  There is no rational distinction of why you are excluding these consumptive uses from your moratorium.  They fail the moratorium.  One of the reasonable things about the scope is vested rights of termination.  That is shorthand for equitable estoppel.  It is a shorthand for fairness.  That is always the case and always a defense to a moratorium where a property has relied by the expenditure of funds on the counties existing rules and regulations.  We are stopping them at the last minute when they have expended a lot of funds.  A vested rights determination and a moratorium is kind of a safety valve.  It allows for the avoidance of some litigation and some lawsuits.  Edgewater moratorium has a vested section to account for this part.  It is good practice when you are establishing moratoriums.  That is the presentation.  If you have any questions on the legal side, I am here.  Clay is here to answer and Ben will answer any questions on the engineering side.  
>> CHAIR BROWER: Councilman Johansson?  
>> JAKE JOHANSON: You mentioned that water should basically flow the same after something is built.  You mentioned should be able to flow into the property as well as out of the property is that correct?  
>>  Yes.  In a predevelopment condition when a storm occurs the waterfalls on that property.  It behaves in a certain manner and blows off.  Some retain and some percolates.  There's a certain amount of water that flows all during the storm event and it flows off at a certain rate.  Our requirements require that in the post-development condition that is replicated.  In other words during that same storm event the water flows off at the same rate.  I will say state focuses on the rate.  Volusia County has a stricter standard where we say that not only does the rate not exceed but the volume of water that flows has to be the same.  But also the state doesn't want you to restrict.  If a certain amount of water flows and the predevelopment condition, they do not want you to restrict that flow in the postbellum condition because there could be wetlands or other things downstream that need that water for their viability.  
>>  Can you explain to me if we raise a subdivision or any development, how water used to flow into the property before and went out how it flows in?  
>>  It is a requirement.  It has to be engineered.  A lot of times when you will see if there's water coming from an off-site parcel they will engineer a way for the water to go around even they are raising the site.  
>>  They can go around?  
>>  It has to go on part of the property that was raised but it has to go or continue.  
>>  The next one I think is Clay.  I have one for each of you.  You mentioned we are planning to go forward to make sure that subdivisions have adequate stormwater basically.  I think the pond blowout was the scenario.  Do we have any plans to ensure that the existing development has adequate stormwater retention and any other areas where we have seen weaknesses for a Milton type of event?  
>>  That is an enforcement issue.  That is where St. John's and the local government and permitting do have some rights under code enforcement procedures.  If a homeowners association is somehow in violation of the permit that was issued for that.  A permit travels with the land.  You may have a developer come in and get the permit initially from us and water management districts.  Once the development is completed a homeowners association is created to oversee the common area and the drainage.  That is the group that we can go after.  As far as trying to make them retroactively bring it into compliance with new regulations, no.  That is not feasible.  They are vested under the existing regulations.  In our presentation we talk about major redevelopment.  It is typically seen with commercial development in those types of things.  That's where we can go in and utilize the means to have improvements for the storm water but those.  Long story made even longer, yes we can if there's a redevelopment.  Otherwise where utilizing code enforcement.  
>>  Do we actively do that?  
>>  We have not had one and I have been here since 2016.  I have not had complaints on homeowners associations.  
>>  I believe in Port Orange we have.[INDISCERNIBLE].  Does the Harris act apply to property that allows future land use element that applies to the property?  In other words, can we say, we love that agricultural property but we are going to not allow you to build whatever urban UMI.  
>>  If you're talking about changing the land use from agricultural to urban?  
>>  Future land use authorizer that is?  
>>  The answer is if you're changing from urban to agricultural and you are making that change, yes that could be subject to the Harris act.  As a legislative act dependent on the reasonable expectations as in, did they have an expectation to develop an urban manner?  The local government came in and says, you have the develop an agricultural on an agricultural basis.  Yes, that is potential subject to the Harris act.  
>>  If I property but I have an expectation I can build homes on it is that something?  
>>  Changing it from agricultural to a higher land use intensity, generally no.  What reason do you have that the local government is going to take a legislative act which is your most discretion that you have an up land use your property?  It is not a reasonable investment backed expectations to have that type of expectation.  Never say never but that is a good case of, it would not be a Harris violation if you decided not to change the future land use for density.  
>>  Councilman Matt Reinhart?  
>> MATT REINHART: During the issues you hit on something with respect upon failures.  How do you prevent that?  
>>  One thing that we looked at in ENRAC is the location of the pond.  In that particular pond, it was on the edge of the development.  It had a large elevation difference.  It was between the where the pond was and the lower area adjacent to it.  One way to prevent that is to locate it in the center of the development.  When that is not possible there is not a berm.  The other option is to reverse the berm if it is not feasible to locate it.  You can do a retaining wall and there are multiple options to ensure that the berm where you basically have water on one side and air on the other and it doesn't give way.  
>>  Is there anything in regulation that would stipulate going to that pond in the middle of the development whether or not it would be impervious?  Soil around it as opposed to parking lot and things of that nature?  
>>  From an overflow standpoint and that is what we talked about.  What we saw during Milton, we had a lot of rain prior to Milton which filled up a lot of the ponds and they did not have time to recover and then you get the big rainstorm.  In instances where you be concerned about an overflow and that is really taking a look at what happens when you exceed the design event?  Do you design the pond so that if it does exceed it may be there's a portion of it that is a little low in your reinforce that with concrete or something like that?  You see that in ponds and DOT likes to use that as one of their overflow.  There's multiple ways to do it.  But in other words it is important the design engineer think about, what would happen in an event that exceeds the design standards and basically design the pond so that it is a controlled failure if you will versus a catastrophic failure.  
>>  Either you or Clay could probably answer this.  I'm curious because I was listening to that and one incident everybody has a district and everybody has something going on in this district that is significant to flooding.  I am thinking about we had a town hall in one area where you're talking about.  City developments and things that are happening in certain municipalities that but up next to another municipality or the county unincorporated.  We know exactly what we are talking about where they are complying with regulations that they have to, to fill these new developments.  The older developments that are lower if you will and I am primarily using the wrong terminology.  The adjacent are essentially lower so the water has to go downhill and it is impacting them in a negative way.  We talked about some solutions possibly for that.  Can you hit on that for a little bit?  
>>  When option I think Clay mentioned in the stormwater standards of some of the standards can become part of the environmental minimum standards.  The cities would have to adhere to those standards as well.  
>>  How do you fix the ones?  
>>  As Clay mentioned if there is a failure and it is negatively impacting us through something like that, it will be through code enforcement process.  
>>  They may have to go around?  
>>  They would have to take a look at what is going on.  Fundamentally, if it is between two private property owners that might end up being a civil lawsuit as well.  
>>  Last question for now, you mentioned the stormwater standards that exceed hours in new Smyrna, what are they doing different?  
>>  A couple of different things they have done pre-identify within the puck floodplains requirements in regards to the storm duration.  They're going to 100 storm event for 72 hours instead of 24 hours duration.  In regards to discharge the rate of water coming from my site going off the sites, they have to provide retention up to 110% of the volume.  Therefore, they are putting basically a safety factor of 10% into the volume of the ponds.  So that way it can discharge and can handle the potential slight increase a little bit easier.  
>>  Hearing that and this is the last one, I promise.  I am all about not worry about re-creating the wheel.  We are not significant unfortunately to flooding at least in the state of Florida.  We are a low state to begin with.  There are other areas and you can't compare apples to oranges and I get that.  As far as New Orleans and their flooding can we learn from situations and apply them to help prevent some of that?  
>>  The natural resource advisory committee after that analysis at the last meeting.  Right now we are developing a matrix which was talking about all 16 cities to comply with chapter 50.  If they have anything above and beyond, they are also asking that we do an analysis of how other surrounding counties are addressing door stormwater.  
>>  Thank you very much.  
>>  On that note we talked about the extra pond volume and the larger storm events.  We do something similar, we do it in a different way.  We require additional foot of what we call freeboard which is additional volume at the top of the pond.  It adds volume to the pond for those times when the pond is either get back to back storms and can't recover.  There are multiple ways to skin the cat.  Part of that analysis that ENRAC is looking at.  
>>  Thank you.  
>>  Councilman Santiago.  
>>  What is going on with relief opportunities for placing more water in the river particularly the west side County has opportunities.  Are we making progress there?  
>>  We have identified that is an issue we want to discuss with St. John's water management District staff.  When you have an event and it raises the river above a certain flood stage there are homes that are inundated at that point and properties.  The same Johns River management has been reluctant to allow pumping or additional water to be put into the St. Johns River.  You have heard that discussed multiple times.  I have seen them right into permits were folks or agencies have received a permit to pump to the river.  However their stipulations when the river is at a certain level you are not allowed to pump.  I can see both sides of the argument.  One side is after Ian, we are multiple folks come in from Stone Island and object to water being discharged into the river near them.  But there's also the argument in terms of the St. Johns River is big and the amount of water going in maybe not so much.  That is a discussion that I have spoken to my counterparts at the water management district about.  To answer your question as progress, we have not made progress.  I'm hopeful through discussions moving forward that we can come to some kind of compromise.  What we saw during Milton was the only option in someplace was to pump to the river.  DeBary filled up and it would've been nice to have and they would've appreciated an option to let some of the water out to the river.  Orange City has a pump that pumps to the river and they are in the process for a similar purpose.
>>  I prefer you do not answer it today.  For public record, I realize you're working with your counterparts on the same Johns River water management.  But if you can get with George, what support do you need from us as a body to get you help to move that forward?  My second question, we talked about development and things of that nature and how they are affected.  But I think I have been here 35 years.  Even some of the previous storms and I will talk in particular I forgot the terminology.  The gravitational flow from DeLand that goes into Deltona that affects the dirt area of Deltona that is in the Cortland Boulevard region that is historical flooded.  It is when we have these big events.  Can you give any update right now as to where we are working towards to partner with particular am asking for this.  I'm sure there are other areas in the county but in particular what are we doing for public works types of events to mitigate that?  I will speak for Deltona.  If we can capture the water before starts going into the basin and send it elsewhere is there talks about that?  Do you need anything from us to continue that or start that?  
>>  I think a lot of the issues were addressed when we looked at the basin analysis.  There is an nexus of three basins that the Council approved in that area.  Lake Helen, we have spoken to them about stormwater analysis in their area.  The experience flooding so I think part of that is historical things that have gone on in those areas.  We know there is flooding in certain types of events.  The analysis and the modeling during a certain event this is what happens and this is where we are seeing the flooding.  That is where we develop the capital projects to identify what we can do during those events.  Reroute the water, hold water and identify locations where we say hey, it is going to happen whether whatever solution we come up with.  
>>  This may or may not be for you, Clay.  We are talking about the pond in the new subdivisions do we have ponds that are either recharged or refilled by aquifer wells or reclaimed water to maintain a certain level for aesthetics purposes in any communities?  
>>  In DeLand there's multiple neighborhoods that have a system where they can move water through different ponds or purchase reclaimed water to augment.  My understanding of the systems is the irrigation systems for nerves neighborhoods pull the water out of the storm water ponds.  They augment it when the levels get too low with reclaimed water that they purchased or other means.  
>>  This is a follow-up to what Ben just said.  We have communities in DeLand that utilize assistant to maintain water levels for irrigation.  When a project like that comes in and they're going to do stormwater ponds, where do they take the level from to determine?  Is it whatever they want to keep the water permanently for static or irrigation?  Do we require them how is that analysis made?  
>>  Let me clarify we do not have rules in unincorporated Volusia County that require the development of projects to accept reuse water to their stormwater ponds.  Reuse is provided where it is feasible through a pipe system.  It is being utilized as an alternative water supply as part of the consumptive use permit.  So we are not utilizing water to water people lawns.  The issues pertaining to a specific development within DeLand.  Again, the design of the ponds themselves have a height.  The critical point is that the water is pumped in during times of drought from the reclaimed systems into the stormwater ponds.  If you have a drought, your stormwater ponds can drop so therefore you do not have sufficient water there available for the irrigation system.  You are going to see that the levels of the pond or based on the stormwater permit that was there as part of it.  The only time that they should be pulling it in is when there is a deficit in the amount of auditing need to meet their irrigation needs.
>>  At that point it is a code enforcement issue?  
>>  That has happened in the city of DeLand.  I am not up to speed on what their regulatory aspects are.  Yes, I would say that is basically a situation where the city would need to go in and identify what is going on from that perspective.  
>>  What I will say is my understanding that the reclaimed water aspect of it goes through a meter.  They track how much water because they have to pay for it.
>>  Clay, could that practice or eliminate the practice be a chapter 50 modification?  
>>  I have to tell you not aware of that being done in many areas.  I actually have the opposite situation black and -- back in the early 2000's.  The city of Port Orange mandated developments to use stormwater ponds as alternative water supply to the reclaimed water because they were running out of reclaimed water before it hit Cyprus and other developments west of 95.  They had to utilize the ponds.  That is an acceptable practice.  In regards to try to utilize stormwater ponds as reclaimed holding tanks for lack of a better term that is not really an acceptable practice I would say.  I would have to check with my colleagues in the cities.  We can investigate that and we will bring that up to the advisory committee.  
>>  I like some of the comments you made regarding the groundwater table and some of the recommendations that may be coming forward to us.  I think you use the words seasonal level.  Let me ask you this scenario if this could play out.  I am going to this of the division on the side and my seasonal level could be 68 or 58 or whatever on this.  I did the borings in the samples and determined that is what it is.  I can three years later and now I'm going to do the side.  Depending on when I did the test it can now be 60.  Is that a potential that could be affecting the design even though it might be leveled?  Could that affect the requirements of this property versus this development?  
>>  I see Ben looking for the real engineer in the corner.
>>  The fact is previous studies do influence what we accept.  
>>  Good evening.  With regard to the seasonal high, it is not something that is supposed to fluctuate that often.  If you only talk about two years unless there is something incredibly unusual that has happened that should not fluctuate that much.  For the most part when a developer due to stormwater if they think they have a multifaith they will go ahead and do the borings all at one time across the site.  Especially if they want to connect the ponds.  The ponds are going to be separated from each other then all you really care about is a seasonal high at that particular location.  The ponds are tied together whether it is being pumped or otherwise then you will potentially want to make sure they all match or you go back and you have done one after certain period of time and it does change.  Then you make adjustments based on that.  
>>  I'm not an engineer's ongoing ideas.  Does it make sense to have a regional or I would use the word basin a basin minimum groundwater table?  It is still required to test for the latest but have a number.  
>>  I would not say that is practical.  You will get a wide variety of elevation differences across a small area in some cases.  Which is why one of the recommendation is that we get more borings in a pond location area because you can get quite a bit of variety.  If you had a confining learning hold water in a certain area and you come 50 – 60 feet over the left and there's no clay layer or anything you can find to hold water above it, it may drop off.  We see that on a fairly regular basis.  In small areas of DeLand so a good example would be everybody is familiar with Taylor Road and the area east of Blue Lake over to Martin Luther King.  A lot of water get held up there at above ground.  You go down to the corner Blue Lake and Orange Camp, you've stormwater pond that sits about 15 feet lower than an area east about 300 feet.  East if that is 56 with water in it and the pound is down at 43 and it doesn't have any water.  It doesn't take a lot to vary quite a bit.  I know I would not recommend -- The USPS did a soil survey where they identify soil types.  Some of that was based on samples where they go out and do boring and that was based on areas on vegetation of the locations.  They did go ahead and establish very basic elevations for those.  Those studies were done in 1950 but it does give you some kind of feel for where water tables might be at.  That would be as much as we would need.  I wouldn't recommend doing anything or wasting money to go to that.  
>>  When we get this, is it any outside peer-reviewed?  
>>  We don't review that portion.  We get the submittals as a part of the application.  
>>  You talk about the tail water affect I know this is Monday morning quarterbacking.  I did not pick the winner yesterday by the way.  If we did not have the high tide at that time is it safe to say that things would've been possibly different on the east side because the tail water situation would not have laid a factor?  Is that a fair statement?  
>>  You could take a look at the different storms.  The tight situation for Milton was not near severe as it was for Ian and you saw less flooding.  
>>  The movie like the perfect storm.  
>>  Wind direction tides and Volusia County is unique.  We have basically one way in and one way out for the water around the Halifax.  It creates a unique situation and all of those inland tributaries.
>>  We talk about pond failures that were referenced.  What is the tail on these designs?  Do we determine on upon failure if it was a design area there are?  Do these engineers come with E and O insurance?  
>>  I know it can be different by policy.  [LAUGHTER] 
>>  I don't know what the timeframe is on the insurance.  They are responsible as a professional engineer signing and sealing the drawings if there is an issue due to their design there is a problem.  That said stormwater design is not just one particular person.  You have a geotechnical engineer that does the borings.  As part of that they generally set your seasonal high.  Seasonal highs also equates to your design normal water level.  It it set your elevation on everything you do after that in terms of your development.  You have to have everything above the water level.  Parking area, roads, homes, businesses all of that.  If that were wrong then the geotechnical engineer would be responsible.  Either way they are professional engineers along the course that are responsible for different aspects of the design.  They and the insurance companies will be responsible.  That said there is a contractor that builds that design.  If they did not properly build something consistent with that design then they would be responsible.  There are responsible parties throughout that should rectify those particular situations.  
>>  I know typically when the development comes in we require them to do at least public infrastructure stuff.  I believe there's a bond that is posted for a year afterwards is that correct?  
>>  If they are performing work within the counties right-of-way itself then, yes that is correct.  We don't post it for a timeframe afterwards it is usually for the work while it occurs and there's a maintenance bond be required in certain instances to make sure they didn't do a poor job.  If the material comes apart yet to repair those aspects.
>>  I would ask and we do not have to answer it right now Mr. chair.  As we are dealing with the requirements to consider to the legal department if we can adopt some E and O significant timeframe or tail if we can require it as one of our standards?  To add least have that as a topic of discussion if it is possible?  If there's a marketplace for it.  I don't know the answers into your research that.
>>  We will need to research what the state requires.  Engineers are like a lot of different professions where regulated state level by Board of professional engineers and have set requirements.  I will double check that and also we could double check with the insurance requirements are.  
>>  Am I understanding your slide one – 24?  
>>  In layman's terms your last bullet point says what?  
>>  The charter language is not supported moratorium in the cities.  
>>  It is the legal department's opinion that we do not have the right and police power to do that is that correct?  
>>  Yes.
>>  Thank you.  I think I am done if you give me a couple more seconds?  
>>  Sure.  
>>  Thank you Mr. chair.
>>  My questions will be for Mr. Irving and Mr. Bartlett.  If you both can come up.  While you're walking up I will say to Mr. Santiago I am please to hear you talk about and feel the temperature staff as far as reaching out to the St. Johns River water management District about is being able to put some water in that river.  I get it.  I totally get it whenever it is cresting and it is flooding out to be able to do that.  But we had a fine group of people in here five days ago.  It was day 91 so now it is day 96.  They have not been able to get in their homes and I think that is one of the core purposes of government is that we can help move that along to get that water where it needs to go so people can start living again.  Anyway, thank you for bringing that up.  I appreciate it.  George, if you haven't picked up what I am laying down that is two in support of that.  There may be more when the others speak.  Clay and Ben my questions about to be about containment on property.  What you said sounds great.  And then you see it in real life.  I love the bar graphs.  It shows change over time.  I appreciate that you posted that not only to us on our agenda because we have time to go over and look at it but for the public as well to take a look.  We have had a guy I have never met him his name is JC.  He sits over your lap and I've never met him before.  He comes up here and tells us testimony about how he can't get into his driveway with his young family and the water.  Then I am going to talk to you about here in the western part of the county and I live over by the beach.  You know where I live, play.  In the western part of the county, we see these pictures of these homes next to these developments next to the rural homes and they are four – 6 feet taller than their homes.  Yes my question is coming.  Because my daughter who I have to drive to get to her house there is a development that took place of there and I call staff and said I have been driving to my daughter's house for two months and there's water coming up this road and I have lived here since I was born in 1975.  Have never seen this ever.  I'm going to bring it back to my house where I live at the end of Magnolia Drive where they used to be the medical center and then they bought the hospital and the hospital came down.  They are putting 15 homes there which I am great with.  I don't have a problem with the homes coming at the end of my street.  My concern is what they have brought in his four – 6 feet taller than the homes.  The home was built in the 1920s.  The water that was in their yard and when I am looking at the graphs and looking at Milton and Ian in 2022 they did not have near the water and 22 that they had in 2024 and their yard.  Maybe it was inches or centimeters from flooding inside of their home.  What kind of assurances do we and can we as a county government elected leaders implement and feel good about and say preconstruction the water that flowed off is X amount.  Post construction the same amount is coming off even though your property is now 6 feet taller than your neighbors and there's water now going over a road that this guy who is 49 years old have never seen in his life ever happened driving that road all of the time.  West where JC lives the pictures he shared with us what assurances can we as a county implement so that I will feel better if I ever approve any developments going forward that truly the water on their property is going to stay on their property?  [APPLAUSE] 
>>  The critical question is the design standard.  Right now we have a 25 year 24-hour storm event.  I'm sorry for having to speak that and I here folks are upset with that.  The simple fact that is with the state of Florida has implement it.  There are certain provisions in state law that any kind of conflict between local government and the state, the state prevails.  When we look at some of our standards, we have to be cognizant of that.  The simple fact is that in 18 – 20 inch rain storm is greater than 100 year storm event.  It is a 500 year storm event.  There's not a system that can be designed or put into our regulations that will prevent that from happening.  Then again, I also want to point out is that in our earlier conversation this was 20+ years ago, we would not be talking about flooding, we will be talking about drought and a lack of groundwater.  What you have seen in the first 25 years of this century, we have gotten records amount of rain that is influencing the groundwater table.  Adding to that tides are coming in the coastal areas in portions of Riverside doctor in Holly Hill you have flooding not because of rain events but because we have the Kings tied and they went up the storm water pond.  It went out the inlet that is on the road.  
>>  Thank you, Clay.  If you can throughout the rain events 1922 – 2024.  When you look at the bar graph, the first 80 years of that bar graphs is a lot drier than the past 25 years have been.  That speaks volumes.  That speaks volumes and I'm glad you mentioned how dry was.  Everyone who have lived here a long time the firestorms of 98 and all 67 counties in Florida was on fire out of control.  I get that but that is not why these five people are here today.  They are here because and I heard you say it is about design standards.  Here's my only beef with any of what I heard today.  It is looking at the bar graph, I am thinking back 2008 with one and closer with Ian.  I bought a house one street away from my parents.  I really ventured out far.  At the end of the street Ian had 18 inches of rain.  They did not have the water that they have now.  The only real difference that I see is that there are now 15 homes coming in.  The homes are not there by the way.  It is the site work that has been done and now there is a problem.  
>>  With respect to that we are a big County.  One thing we saw during the storm events was, you have different amounts of rains in different areas.  20 inches during Ian was new Smyrna and we had extensive flooding in those areas.  The 18 inches number was because DeLand, DeBary recorded that.  Since this chart was originally made, has spoken to my counterpart at this city.  They recorded 23 inches of rain in Ormonde Beach.  Specific to the Ormonde area and based on some observations that was definitely and I don't think they got the 20 inches during Ian and he got more.  With respect to that I am not denying.  
>>  That is fair and accept that.  Thank you.  Clay and Ben my last question is because, I love the new Smyrna has higher standards with storm water and I hate it at the same time.  I look for them and I hate it for the county.  How much time would it take if this counsel said so to make some changes to our stormwater to go to a minimum of what new Smyrna has its we decided to do that?  
>>  We have gone through one process looking at chapter 72.  That of the standards that apply to Volusia County.  Unincorporated.  Chapter 50 is coming through the environmental natural resource advisory committee.  As we reference that is part of the analysis.  If there are standards that are being implement it by any of the cities that we feel are applicable, we will identify them and we will still have the matrix available for when it finally gets in front of the Council.  The only reason why this coming forward is chapter 72 is easier to amend in chapter 50 plain and simple.  The time requirements and coronation aspects for doing countywide environmental standard is longer than the standard coaching for chapter 72.  We did not want to delay getting chapter 72.  What we can do is this.  We can proceed through the environmental natural resource advisory committee and get their feedback on what needs to be done with chapter 50.  If there recommended changes from that particular group, we will also look at potential changes to chapter 72 that correlate to those recommended changes.  We will be able to get the preliminary changes done quickly and if there's long-term changes associated with 50 we will follow up as quick as possible.  Realistically, it is going to take a couple of passes through the environment the resources advisory committee.  Chapter 50 we are required to send notices to all 16 cities and give them 30 days to review to provide comments and then we have to go through public hearings and land development commission and hear -- and here in front of the Council.  Worst case scenario 180.  
>>  Thank you for your professionalism and answers to the questions.  Chairman I am done for now, thank you.  
>>  My understanding on some of these subdivisions off of Taylor road if there are storm water retention some of them are lined and some or not.  Is that correct?  
>>  The ponds that are aligned in Victoria Park or down south.  I think they call it Lake Victoria and the comments which is the largest one and that one is lined and discharge from the reclaimed water.  The storm water pond adjacent to Martin picking on the website in the hill section next to the entrance off of Martin Luther King.  
>>  It is my understanding that lining a pond with PVC is expensive is that correct?  
>>  Correct.
>>  And the building is 20 – 30 years is that correct?  
>>  Actually, I thought it was 50 – 60.  It is probably more expensive but you don't have to replace it.  As long as it is installed correctly then it is fine.  
>>  This is by the developer correct?  
>>  Correct.
>>  Can you tell me what benefit from lined storm water retention ponds versus just unlined ponds?  
>>  I can tell you the reason for both is aesthetics.  As much as anything but there was a secondary especially in Lake Victoria is being the Lodge in a pond that they can go ahead and directly pull irrigation water from that facility.  That is the primary or secondary aspect.  
>>  Mr. Irvin talked about the design standards.  Do you think if we lived in a world with future and subdivisions were required to have lined storm water retention ponds, so your eyes go up.  I'm sure the cost factor would be a huge increase.  What effect do you think that will have on flooding adjoining properties if all storm water retention ponds on future developments were required to be line?  
>>  My eyes when I because it would create more flooding, it would be my expectation on adjacent properties.  The liner keeps the water in that pond from percolating out and becoming groundwater in the surrounding areas.  Which is trying to mimic what happens if you had something like the situation before the development occurred.  When you have a vacant piece of property undeveloped piece of property rain falls on it it does one or two things.  It percolates in the ground and runs off.  When you develop it more generally runs often previously did for your stormwater pond is a method by which you retain that water on your site the difference between the original amount of runoff and the post amount of run off and you turn that back into groundwater.  The same would've occurred in the previous.  If you cut off the ability for that water to percolate into the ground the only way to get rid of it is to go ahead and let it flow out to adjacent properties or adjacent stormwater system.
>>  Is there way to do controlled-release like you do with dams?  If the lined pond had a controlled release mechanism so we can slowly that they percolate into the ground instead of let it percolating in the pond?  
>>  You can do a multitier system where you have a certain section that wasn't lined and control that expect.  You can come up with something along those lines.  If you're adjacent to a stream or a lake then you can do a controlled discharge directly.  
>>  Do you think that will be a benefit for the county to regulate some of this flooding after the big rain events?  
>>  I think there's a benefit to that aspect.  One of the things that had not been allowed in the past because there was no good way to control it was a prerelease of storm water.  As we have seen with the size of the storms that we are talking about anything above 11 inches is a large storm.  Our systems are not designed at that level.  They have not been the whole time even back when most of our canals were mosquito control canals and trying to regulate water levels.  With the system set up that way, they did not allow for you to do a regular discharge of water outside of coming through stormwater system.  Everything was designed so that it can operate autonomously.  Nobody was necessary to be there you didn't have to raise levels or anything along those lines.  We have made good strides in different types of things where we can go ahead and put a computer in charge of those types of elements and control those aspects of it.  There's a group out there that has set up a program whereby they actually have a computer system that is tied into the Internet.  He goes over to the weather.com, NOAA or anything that is tied into the weather system.  It seems that tomorrow there's a 3 inch storm expected, it will start a release of water to create the volume before a storm.  The reason it is a problem after the storm is when you get an 18 inch storm the pump size become ridiculously large and there's not room to accommodate that.  A prerelease when the water levels in the streams and ditches or at a lower elevation assuming we have had multiple storms in a row, you can do something like that.  The water management District previously have not been allowed that because there was nobody in control of the systems were not good enough to allow for autonomous control.  Now there are and are willing to allow those types of things.  Our rules do not contemplate that because the water management rules have never previously allowed it.  Now that is something that should be considered in a lot of the areas that a flood prone.  The plus -- best ways is when you don't have a large amount of water coming out one time.  
>>  Thank you.  Cannot ask for Ben real quick?  Is it fair to say this proposed moratorium is likely to solve the problems on Taylor road and Miller Road?  
>>  I would speak to any stopping of any construction if we get the same storm this summer, you have the same issues.  Obviously, a moratorium isn't going to fix the issues that have already occurred.  It is safe to say.  
>>  Is it fair to say the quickest fix to the existing problems would be potentially strategically acquisitions and demolition?  
>>  I mentioned a town hall that is a last resort.  You are basically removing people from their homes.  You are eliminating the housing.  When I was a is an engineer solution would be the preferred.  You get into a cost-benefit analysis situation where the cost of an engineer solution or an engineer solution cannot guarantee they will not flood.  Then it will be acquisition, demolition and multiple funding sources and stuff like that for after a storm event.  It is something that we approach cautiously.  Because you are asking somebody to give up their home and to move.  It is really about, can we guarantee and there's no guarantees in life.  Can we an engineer solution be cost-effective and prevent flooding?  The only way to guarantee a structure doesn't flood is to acquire and demolish.  
>>  It is fair to say a lot of repetitively flooded homeowners are probably more willing to sell?  
>>  That is the general consensus that we are seeing from a lot of folks.  We have talked to the cities and have talked to the city staff extensively about, we know there's going to be a tremendous amount of money becoming available through elevate Florida and FEMA for acquisition and those kinds of projects.  There are out speaking to folks and try to get people who would be willing to participate in those kinds of programs.  There's always in the history of those programs has been through FEMA and the federal program, they will reimburse the homeowner for 75% of the value of their house in the past.  When the county participate in project to acquire home the county has supplemented the additional 25% to make the homeowner whole in terms of the value of their house and what they are receiving for it.  Again, that is a policy decision.  Each of the municipalities in the county.  
>>  Do you know if the county has been proactive in getting that information?  
>>  Yes.  As spoken to multiple homeowners about it.  We have talked to folks and in the process of doing post storm triage.  We have talked to folks and gotten their contact information.  I have encouraged the cities to do the same for you know the city South Daytona is going door to door to speak to people.  It is going to be a massive communication effort to let these folks know what opportunities are available in terms of funding if they are interested in that.  
>>  Last, we spent several million dollars in getting the waters basin studies done.  Once we have the results of the studies that we will know better which areas may be better suited for land acquisition?  
>>  100%.  Some of them will be for an engineer solution and some will be recommended for acquisitions because they are indefensible.  That is the goal of these analysis is to identify those locations.
>>  Do you think the land acquisitions might be on the west side of the closed basin that is prone to flooding?  
>>  Typically has been my experience that close basins tend to lend themselves to that kind of work.  The only option for removing water from a closed basin is to pump it out or create additional storage.  If you are in a basin for example the one I used as an example the only option is to pump.  There is a house adjacent to it that I know has flooded in previous storms going back to 2004.  That is a home that we will look at as approaching.  
>>  Thank you, I appreciate it.  
>>  Clay, you are over.  I appreciate everyone's clarity in terms of our jurisdiction 1st and foremost.  It sets the baseline and foundation of where we obviously go from here.  What I want to clarify for myself and for the public on what is required and who requires it and what does that leave us with?  Who mandates or regulates that?  I know it doesn't happen everywhere.  I know it does happen in our floodplain areas and areas that are obviously where it is needed.  Who controls that?  Is it the state, federal mandate that we have to follow?  
>>  1st and foremost in our comprehensive plan and land development regulations, we have floodplain management regulations.  The number one goal is to prevent development within 100 year floodplain.  There are situations where you cannot prevent it because it would result in the taking of the property.  That is why we put minimum standards to address that.  Those minimum standards are based on requirements that we see from the federal emergency management and the state of Florida through their Department of emergency management.  And I believe the Department of State.  Where there's minimum elevations above based elevations.  Once you've got your groundwater level established everything plays off of that.  Your placement of utilities, your placement of your streets.  Then we have as far as Florida building code and our own regulations an additional foot above the centerline of the road for single-family home.  All of these are building on it so you do have federal standards and state standards as they apply to floodplains and then there is good engineering practices that apply across the state as they apply to utilities, roads, and placement of homes within subdivisions or for commercial development.  
>>  And I heard you correctly earlier and thank you for the explanation.  You said if we do not follow some of the state and federal regulations just like there's a comparison made to the city and the county earlier with a different discussion.  If we don't follow those regulations, I heard someone say is a conflict between the state the higher level of government?  
>>  I will send it over to our attorney so we can clarify the situation.  
>>  Chapter 373 is storm water or surface water provisions.  It is very explicit that 370 3414 statutory citation says, in the event of conflict between environment to resource permit issued by the water management District and local government if they can't reconcile water management District prevails.  We can be more restrictive.  But we have to regulate to the extent where we are not causing someone to violate their state permit.  If we do they have to comply with the state permit.
>>  Understood, thank you.  Clay, to the minimum standards do we have the authority for instance require liners stop pumping or in -- enforce the no pumping during the wet season?  Common sense would tell us not to pump during the wet season.  
>>  Remember we as a storm water entity, we have the utility.  We are subject to the St. John's water management District.  They are the one telling Ben saying that we can't pump into the St. John and other areas and he comes to clarify.  
>>  Any movement of water pretty much as regulate by the St. John's water management District.  After a storm event the water management district we can request emergency permits.  It is notification.  If we're going to start pumping from one location to another we have to get approval.  If we started pumping or moving water, they still have to give the approval.  
>>  What I was getting act and have been to JC's place and we feel pretty situations.  It is a lot more complicated than just stopping the water or whatever.  What I want to ensure is that we are not adding insult to injury.  Can we make a regulation to say to the city hey, you will not pump during our wet season June – November.  So that adjoining if there is seepage and overflow that they maintain that capacity.  
>>  Are you talking about augmenting the retention ponds with reclaimed water?  
>>  Can we do that to environmental standards?  
>>  I would differ to clay on that.  To dictate anything like that to the city.  
>>  I'm thinking of other insurances that we can because things do slip through the crack.  
>>  Councilman Santiago said this earlier.  They are allow to pump to in a certain whether it is reclaimed water bringing water via their own pump from low ground.  The water management district does not allow them to go about that seasonal high water level that is used as the design of the water level.  They are not negatively impacting volume in that pond.  Restricting that create a little more volume is not, they are not using the design volume they are supposed to have.  I'm not advocating for it in any way shape or form.  
>>  This may be a question for you.  Is it within our power if this board elects to add additional checks and balances like a water to make sure everybody's doing what they're supposed to be doing that is not negatively affecting members and the counties or cities and vice versa.  Do we have the power that can work ultimately with the city's and help enforce and create an additional checks and balances for our people?  
>>  From minimum environments will standards, you set a standard that the city must amend their ordinances to comply with.  After doing the required comment period and the consultation once you set the standard cities must amend their ordinances to comply.  If they don't, our provision say we can go in and file an injunction or sue the city's to start compliance.  That is the way the minimum environmental standards work.  I don't think you need an independent authority because that is how the minimum is about to work.  The county set the minimum standards and everyone has to comply including the County.
>>  How do we know they are complying with it?  What explanation can we get our people that those standards are going to be complied with?  Is it a piece of paper, pinky promise?  I am not trying to be a wise guy but people have a lot of questions because from our staff perspective we are able to get access to all of the codes.  Anyone from the public and go and look for the stormwater design standards that they have.  
>>  We are making sure the provisions of what in chapter 50 are carried over and their respective ordinances.  
>>  If something pops out, we are reactive in other words?  
>>  Right now if we get words that says a city in Volusia County is going to strike all the stormwater standards they are not going to care about stormwater anymore.  It will still have to comply with the St. John's standards.  At the same point in time, we could take them to court and say, you cannot do that.  You had to put in place the equivalent of what we have as a minimum in chapter 50.  They can defer to us.  I can tell you two cities that simply say, we will enforce the minimum environments will standards for storm waters by Volusia County.  
>>  In your training experience over the last 30 years are our standards in Volusia County, I know the answer.  Are they higher than a lot of the state and federal standards requirements when it comes to chapter 50 and chapter 72?  
>>  I do have to say there's going to be qualitative measures that the state just mandated.  Water quality of storm water will have a direct impact on the quantity associated.  That may change how it looks come December 2025.  
>>  The last thing is it might be good for the county management.  We will start with Ben.  Ben do we have a list of projects?  Over time to get pegged with not doing enough.  That we are not forward thinking and projects are not being completed or abandoned.  Do we have a list of the money we have spent, man-hours, list of projects that we completed, list of projects and studies that we are waiting on.  Do we have a list we can show the public or read tonight to let him know that we are addressing this?  
>>  Have a list of the things we have done the last five years.  I can go back and play where we have done in response to previous flooding events.  I definitely have a list ready.  We spent tens of millions of dollars on stormwater projects.  We have been very successful in getting grants to supplement the money that the county utilizes from the stormwater utility funds.  We spend five – $6 million a year on maintenance alone.  I can have that posted anytime you want.  It is ready to go and I will be happy to posted.  
>>  I want to -- if we can get that visible and transparent for our public and let them know hey, we are not sitting on a thumbs here.  
>>  I will also note as part of the larger capital projects schedule that country for you a couple times a year all of those past projects capital projects which include stormwater and other projects and the like.  That is already available but I can definitely nail it down to just the stormwater.
>>  Do we know the majority of the flooding cases that we are seeing, are they repetitive?  Are they in floodplains?  Are they by bodies of water?  Do we know any of those answers?  
>>  Clays staff put together a heat map.  It is essentially a map of just unincorporated area where we had national fund insurance program.  We can't release specific information that we can do bubbles and show.  What I've seen from that for Ian, yet a large section of flooding in the new Smyrna area.  He also had a lot of flooding along the St. Johns River which makes sense.  It is stage up to the highest point is ever been recorded.  You have flooded areas, have seen a lot of areas flooded where they were older homes built prior to stormwater standards.  You might have houses below the road and things like that.  In rural areas and we have seen with Milton seen flooding in closed basins.  It varies but in each situation is different.  Each situation like I outlined in my presentation can be a result of multiple factors or one factor if you live next to the river.  That is why it is important when we look at these areas is to really try to evaluate why did it happened and what is the best solution for it?  
>>  The only reason I ask because I see some places flood if we are having the moratorium discussion.  If a place is flooding, why?  Thank you Stan for your information.  
>>  I will try to make this quick.  I thought listening to questions would eliminate some.  It is giving a few more in some places.  Clay, let me start with you on the February 11 you will be bringing forward to the Council meeting the new low impact development program from ENRAC.  I'm trying to figure how much time it is going to take to accomplish some of these things.  If we approved it as is, how long would it take before you brought it back?  
>>  It is already an ordinance form.  I believe it is two readings.  There is an associated amendment that is going along with it so it would have to go through the Department of Commerce.  That is relatively 30 – 60 days.  You can still proceed with the amendment to the subject to the adoption or approval from the Department of Commerce of the state.  
>>  And that you mentioned the stormwater update but we also talked about chapter 72 and chapter 50.  What is coming to us?  
>>  Chapter 72 is coming to you on the 11th.  Those standards that were recommended for approval on the environment, it will be on Thursday.  We will be able to take the recommendations, craft an ordinance and have it available for February 11.  If you agree with that there than it could be and that one does not require comp plan it just requires two readings.  
>>  The Council could upgrade it and make it more restrictive?  
>>  I will let him clarify what is considered substantial deviation.  Who is him?  
>>  I believe it depends upon you have to work with the scope of what we have noticed and advertised.  So right now it is what you need to submit for stormwater and some of the design aspects.  That is what is currently advertised.  Additional borings and for the design aspects stormwater pond location of where it is.  And what it is made out of.  
>>  It is the scope of the changes.  They are so far beyond that we have three advertised.  They are consistent with the advertising you should be able to hold a hearing.  
>>  Once again the legal answer yes and no.  Depends on what you are requesting to change.  As long as you are within the scope of what has been advertised, you can reduce it and you can increase it.  Anything outside of the scope would have to re-advertise.  
>>  Okay.  Stay right there the both of you.  It would be quicker to go back and forth.  You also said on the moratorium, it doesn't set standards.  You mentioned that we needed to be prepared to pay.  That means prepared to pay if we went over a 12 month period?  
>>  Yes.
>>  It is not automatically go over 12 months and we have to pay?  It can be defended?  
>>  Yes.
>>  In Lake Tahoe the moratorium was extended several times and ended up going 32 months and it took six years as it went through the court system.  They do not have a Birch Harris act out there.  So if we went and I would hope that we do not need it but if he went over 12 months, we can come back and update it for a certain period of time because of something else that we want to accomplish?  
>>  Yes.  But that Harris act Epstein is once you go over the 12 months, you lose a protection and you really need to justify the moratorium.  It needs to be all the things that I mentioned.  He needs to be the minimum necessary.  He needs to be a reasonable scope.  And any increase in duration needs to be reasonable in relation to that.  That is still not a determination that we will not face any liability.  It is the act telling local governments want to go past this, you need to be very careful of what you do in terms of a moratorium.  Once again this is a fact specific analysis.  It depends upon the scope of the moratorium.  
>>  Okay.  The question was asked and I think it was Ben but I will ask you two.  What the moratorium stop the flooding at JC's?  It wouldn't and I don't believe it would.  Do either of you believe that if we had the purpose of the moratorium is to increase and set standards that would prevent future flooding.  While it will not in current flooding anywhere, it could prevent another homeowner from losing their house.  Do you believe that is true or a possibility?  
>>  The purpose of the moratorium is to keep the status quo while you go through the code changes.  The moratorium itself doesn't amend the code.  It doesn't set a standard.  It is saying, everything stays the same.  Everything stays the same and you have another rain event and everything stays the same.  The purpose of the moratorium is, what changes are you going to produce while you keep this status quo.  From a legal stamp -- standpoint, I can't answer your question.  It doesn't increase or change standards.  All it does is status quo everything freezes.  
>>  It pauses everything in place and seems like it would prevent further damage until we make the changes that we need.  I am interested in Mr. Santiago question and on retention ponds.  I thought it was very good and spot on.  I don't know maybe Tad, you had said you talked about raising the water level was it St. John's determines how much water can be in a retention pond?  You are concerned about water in a retention pond increasing?  
>>  Or your firm to -- and try to make sure I understand.
>>  Pumping in or buying reclaimed water?  
>>  The seasonal high is established by the geotechnical in general will be reviewed by the water management District and the expectation would be the most totality in the unincorporated county.  They would review that at elevation and confirm it or have the Geotech provide further evidence to support his or make a modification to it.
>>  If we are keeping retention ponds full is it raising the water table in the surrounding area?  
>>  You mean artificially keeping them full or naturally filling up?  If we are keeping them full then yes that could have an effect on the adjacent groundwater.  If it is kept above the normal.  If they were bringing in more reclaimed water for example above that design normal water level then, yes.  Assuming does not line the water can percolate into the ground and it would have a negative effect.  
>>  Okay.  Did you want to add something?  
>>  I think what you're asking is when you fill up a retention pond above the normal water level or the design on the water level could that affect the groundwater level?  Yes because your artificially increasing the water level in the pond.  There would be no reason to do that because the water level above the normal water level is your storage volume in your treatment volume for rain events.  You would be eating into the storage that you need and required to have for the rain events.  In terms of what the water management district let you do that and the way you operate upon will be in violation of your permit.  
>>  We have already established that nobody is policing that if that rule is being violated or if crosswind is not carrying out the requirements for their stormwater system.  Who was supposed to check on that?  
>>  The local municipality.  So were talking about two different things.  One is operation and maintenance of an existing stormwater system.  If the local Melissa palace he finds out it is being operated in violation of the permit.  Or St. John water management District find out there is ramifications from both of the agencies.  For the neighborhood that is under construction there are multiple agencies primarily the local municipality but also the DEP has jurisdiction if there are illicit discharges that are occurring from a site.  If there is illegal groundwater occurring without permit that would be a violation and you can do a stop work order.  To answer your question a local agency who issued the permit would be the one most likely responsible and available to enforce that action.
>>  Have you ever seen that happen?  
>>  Yes.  We have issued stop work orders for violations of projects where the not keeping up the required things.  
>>  LPGA empties into the Halifax River your conversation on tail water.  That is a problem if it is high tide water is going to rush back in.  If money was no object and we put a gate to prevent the tide from coming in, it is going to create ramifications downstream I am assuming.  
>>  Upstream, yes.  
>>  Well now upstream.  It would been downstream if it wasn't high tide.  Is there a way to deal with that adding retention areas?  
>>  You have two primary options if you're trying to block the time from coming back in.  You can stop the tide on a sunny day event and that way you're not getting the backflow into the system which might cause flooding.  If you're getting tidal influences and a rain event by putting up the gate you have eliminated the outflow and created a closed basin.  Your options would be increase the amount of storage volume to hold the water or adjacent to the canal or a retention area or somewhere you can store the water that is falling from the sky.  Once the tide recedes and the other option is pumps.  You pump over the the tide gate.  It becomes a differential equation of your water coming in and volume and a pump going out and you have tide gates.  It is a big time engineering exercise.  But money no object you can get big pumps know -- New Orleans style.  
>>  Creating upon, you would be digging out a large area.  A smaller basin where you have smaller amounts of water coming to it that might be a viable consideration.  You would be digging out a large area and the pumps would be large.  
>>  Speaking of money being the option and basins will the basin study tell us what properties need to be bought?  Would you recommend buying certain properties because they are repeatedly flooded?  
>>  The basin studies with analysis is going to do is model.  They are going to go out and look at the basin and they're going to look at the topography and the terrain and how the water flows.  They are basically going to model certain size storm events.  They're going to model 11 inch rain event, 20 inch rain event if we asked him to.  At that point becomes a risk assessment.  You could end up with an analysis that says during an 11 inch rain event you have four homes that are going to plug.  -- Flood.  In a 20 inch rain event number you're going to have 25 – 30 homes that are going to flood because you have a lot more water falling in that area.  At that point, you're starting to get into the discussion of cost, benefits and it becomes a decision point on policy.  To a certain extent of, what do we want to protect from?  Do we want to protect from the 11 inch storm or 20 inch storm?  That is what the study is going to tell us.  We are going to have to decide the course of action.
>>  We have decided that the basin study will indicate if it think that is a necessity?  
>>  It will tell you what is going to happen in a certain event.  Part of the way to think about it is similar to what you see in a floodplain.  The elevation will be different.  You will see which homes are deep into the territory of the water elevation.  It is a constant -- cost-benefit.  It will give you the tools to make that decision.  It will not specifically tell you.[INDISCERNIBLE].  
>>  Agricultural lands are treated a little bit differently in some cases.  Can agricultural land digging a pond and fill in low areas without a permit?  
>>  Remember if you're going for bona fide agriculture, you have defiled the Department of agricultural minimum best management practices.  So be tied to the specific type of agriculture.  So for example aquaculture and you want to dig out ponds there could be exemptions allowed.  That would be basically handled through the DEP.  Under the right to form act which is adopted by the state of Florida the county zoning regulations and land development revelations do not apply.  Only thing that does apply is the floodplain management.  So if there are operating within the floodplain, we can come in and talk to them about the elevation of their farm structures to make sure they are out of the flood hazard.  But for the most part depending on the type of agriculture, they can get exemptions for some of the impacts to floodplains etc. 
>>  I am actually talking about land on a farm that stays wet.  You can't use it so you dig a pond somewhere else and raise it up.  
>>  So for example you're doing a pastor?  You are exempt from those regulations.  When the land is ever brought forward for development water management District looks back to 1986 to determine if the wetlands on site and if they were impacted.  They would have to be responsible for mitigating for the prior impacts.  
>>  With the process of filling in the low area are dispersed to the neighboring farm and eliminated some of their pastors?  -- Pastures.  
>>  They have used best management practices which would include do not flood thy neighbor.  
>>  If they do work records do they have?  
>>  A civil lawsuit.  
>>  We are approaching when we approach as we approach hurricane season, do you have in your hand a conference of storm water plan including maintenance that you know where you're going to but water where you can pump to let it run?  
>>  When I would say to that is to have a plan written down that is going to tell me where I'm going to be able to pump water to during a hurricane?  No, because every storm is different.  What is available in one storm may not be available in another.  What I do not have access to is the GIS system and the understanding of where we know areas that we can move water two.  If we own county or city property those kinds of things.  We also know using the data topography if we have flooding going on in this area, I can look at the surrounding area and I can see where is a possibility?  We can't reach out to private property owner.  I am familiar and have access to the systems from the cities and the state to understand where they can probably move water.  It will be creating a plan when you don't know what is going to happen.  Every storm is different.  A lot of times we know where areas flood.  They flooded before.  We know there's a chance we might have to pump water out of there.  The hospital has flooded brief the night before.  I know there's a location we can move water and it's all private property.  We reach out to the property only they gave permission we started pumping.  It would be difficult to come up with a plan a conference a plan where you can say, if this than this.  Because the reality is every storm is different.  Mr. Kent touched on the difference of rainfall amounts and a difference in the tides and things like that.  We have a plan to go out and address post storm issues as far as clearing the roads.  Identifying areas that have flooded and roads that flooded and we start triage.  It is a difficult situation in any storm event.  Especially when flooding is concerned.  
>>  What you said is we are starting new every time.  We have had repeated hurricanes that show us where we are going to flood.  
>>  I am not saying we are starting from scratch what I'm saying is that, you can have a situation for instance I will use Miller Lake as an example.  It flooded into thousand four and it flooded again in 2008 and for Milton.  The previous two times there were able to pump two locations that were dry.  In this particular storm the locations were not drive.  They were potentially inundated homes.  We also know DOT has a pump system that can move the water down to DeBary.  When the very system was able to accommodate the water we were able to move it.  It is not that we don't know those areas are not going to blood, what I'm trying to say is during different storm events there is a chance that areas we identified in previous storms are not available.  
>>  Okay.  Councilman Dempsey?  
>> DON DEMPSEY: If we can pull up slide one – 22?  I'm sorry, the charter.  It seems like a common theme that I heard over the last couple years is that when a city annexes in from the county that we lose a lot of our control.  And basically the city can do a lot more?  
>>  Yes, that is the way our current situation is set up.  You have two home rule authorities with our two areas where the county ordinances prevail.  Whenever we set environmental standards.  
>>  Under the supremacy clause of the Constitution is the hierarchy the federal law take precedence over the state law.  The state law take precedence over the county ordinances.  It seemed like that has been the discussion.  It seems like when you go down the chain of command federal, state, county, municipal, it seems like it is topsy-turvy at the bottom.  Seeing the municipalities have more power than the counties when you get to the bottom of the ladder.  Is that a fair analysis?  
>>  It is two independent sources of authority.  Both counties and municipalities or political subdivisions and creatures of the state.  Ultimately, we both drive the authority from the state of Florida.  In a non-chartered County, once you cross over the municipal line the municipal's the cities laws prevail.  In a chartered County the charter has to specify which ordinances will prevail.  
>>  When the charter review coming up now this year and next year correct?  I know Danny and I believe Jeff were talking about, it seems frustrating that we don't have a water Czar or somebody who can go and police a county agent who can police the subdivisions and properly pumping water that is contributing to the flooding problem.  Isn't it within our purview especially with the charter that we can change that?  We can actually create whatever type of rules we want that the cities have to follow?  
>>  Yes.  That is within the charter authority.  The one thing that you can't do without a referendum is transfer power from municipality to the county.  You can amend the charter such that for example the role boundary amendment.  That is all about the supremacy of the county land use and zoning regardless of what the municipality has zone two.  In addition it touches upon having to go through a county process volunteering annexation.  So yes.  
>>  One of the discussions coming up its role boundary and it is a hot topic.  It is coming down the pipe in a few months.  Could we also have a discussion about in the charter review discussions and put it on a referendum?  That we have some way of enforcing these municipal subdivisions that they are following the guidelines?  
>>  You can create a County permitting system that is countywide.  You just can't under the existing charter language take the municipalities -- it would take a charter amendment to grant the County additional power.  
>>  It would have to go to referendum?  
>>  Yes.
>>  Thank you.  
>>  Councilman Robins?  
>>  What a moratorium stop any current development that has already been approved or zonings that are already entitled to certain things in unincorporated Volusia?  
>>  I will recommend what you see is typically anything that is already in the process.  It has approved subdivision and site plan and in the process of building permit.  That will be equitable estoppel with that issue.  It is now just following through.  I will let him clarify that a little bit more.  
>>  Most moratoriums will have the very last bullet point.  It's about equitable estoppel and someone who has detrimentally rely upon the rules and regulations and has expended a lot of funds money time and effort.  It is always a defense against the moratorium which is why it depends upon what application and where it is in the process.  Once you drill down to the building permit level unless you need additional justifications to start stopping the issuance of building permits and already vested and built subdivisions.  Building permits is a building permit.  You have consumers that you are affecting.  You have builders who you are affecting more so than just the rear back raw development of the land.  
>>  What is the current growth rate?  
>>  It is 1.6 – 1.7% per year.
>>  Countywide?  
>>  County is a total.
>>  Since we only have jurisdiction for this unincorporated Volusia what is the growth rate in unincorporated?  
>>  Were relatively flat.  
>>  Is it half percent?  
>>  I don't know off the top of my head.  I can tell you the majority of the population has shifted to the cities.  Right now I would say we are set at around maybe .5%.
>>  Are you familiar with the moratorium New Smyrna Beach hard and outside firm.  If you go to their page they have a really great interactive page.  You will see all of the areas, they are all by water that are flooding.  Do you know the result?  
>>  The engineer that was hired by the city of New Smyrna Beach to address the concerns.  
>>  What was the comparison or the outcome?  
>>  Defining the indicated in the report aside, you would not – that you can take the development out and it was still flood.  
>>  Matt brought up a wise suggestion of looking at what other places have done so we don't have to spend unnecessary monies on studies where we already know the answers to.  That is what I am trying to drill down and pinpoint.  So thank you, Clay.  Do we have anybody from the economic side at the staff level?  If we did a moratorium in unincorporated Volusia what would be the economic impacts as a result of that?  Do we know?  
>>  We don't have the economic development team in chambers.  Councilmembers I asked that question of our team.  What they provided for unincorporated Volusia County is a compilation of what the total permitted value of new construction was over the last calendar year.  Calendar year 2024, the total residential commercial development combined was $249,625,000 worth of new development with an assessed value of $212 million.  Ad valorem tax value of $3.9 million.  The estimate construction, employment based on the full calendar year of 24 at 1548 jobs.  
>>  Would be lost or affected?  
>>  That is the affective of one year's worth of development.  
>>  Of the revenue with some of that revenue cannot be applied to stormwater improvements?  Is that money counting on to be address some of the issues that we -- when I want to see if we're going to cut our throats and counting on the money to fix some of these issues?  
>>  It could be.  You haven't chose it for it to be it is the general fund she is speaking about.  You also have the stormwater utility.  Stormwater utility is is not measures but it is paid by dwelling unit.  You're getting more revenue from the stormwater utility.  You can also choose the flexible fund and you can choose money to come out of there.  I caution as we have talked about in the past the vast majority goes into things like public safety.  That would be available.  
>>  Some of this revenue where it is being dependent on to fund first responders and other entities in the counties.  Do we have any data I know a recent report came out in Council voted on a surplus of 1800 available units.  Do we have any data showing that this is naturally working itself out economically?  Supply and demand is working?  
>>  Through Volusia County building Department we are seeing a reduction in amount of permits we are receiving.  But it is still an increase overall.  In other words the rate of increasing permits has slowed but we are still seeing more and more people coming in.
>>  Is that for new construction?  
>>  Yes, sir.  
>>  I like to caution on the findings from the Schomburg Center who is the basis for us to be able to identify that there was a surplus.  That is the one calendar year.  And it can change tomorrow and it can change come December.  It is looking at 80 – 120% of annual median income.  What you need to look at next year to be a deficit.  
>>  To have subdivisions being lined up to be built as we speak?  Are we ready or is this market working itself out?  I hear makes things I'm just trying to establish that.
>>  And 23 and 24 as far as permitting the majority of the subdivision activity were for two subdivisions.  His 900+ homes that have been processed through the subdivision process.  Of which about 40 of them are associated with these two lots splits.  You're looking at roughly about 1000 homes over a two year period as first development plans.
>>  Thank you so much.  
>>  Councilman Kent?  
>>  On the east side how much support any support help?  To me anything is on the table.  The idea of coming we have.[INDISCERNIBLE].  What if the county and state and feds put an inland?  What kind of help with getting more of the east side into the Halifax and not too mentioned it is a wonderful inlet right there.  Can use share information if you have any?  If not that is okay.
>>  Most of this would be speculation we have not looked at it specifically overall.  I will caution about making large changes to the historic low certain areas.  They cut off the flow any change the environment beyond what people think.  Something of that size would require something like the core of engineers to come in and provide the type of support.  Most of the time anytime you more mixing the overall the better.  You won't have better stormwater flow and water quality overall.  There are a lot of potential unintended consequences.
>>  I her speculation and I heard possible better stormwater flow and water quality.  I know leaders in Ormonde are asking the same questions.  
>>  To hit on that Army Corps of Engineers and I will going to use this question later.  Daytona Beach is involved with a study with the Army Corps of Engineers for Midtown which floods all of the time.  It was built in the basin, it was built in a bowl.  Not every area is the same.  
>>  We have multiple meetings with the folks working on the Army Corps study and the staff.  To answer your question, yes.  We are eagerly anticipating a resolution.  A lot of the water bodies and canals that are affected by Nobel canal or county maintain.  We do have data including past studies where that area has been modeled including some of the areas around the airport.  We provided that data and what they are doing is modeling just like we talked about with the basin analysis.  They are modeling the area and try to see how things react in different storm events and then they can see what if I take this flow away and reroute it?  What if I store stormwater over here?  They're going to be doing what we are doing and a lot of our studies and analysis of our basins.  They are going to see how the area reacts.  There was put in the model certain types of solutions and see.  We all know similar to what Holly Hill faces and down the line along that entire canal.  
>>  That being said there has been a couple of discussions about the person to oversee, when we make changes to our standards and hopefully we will make changes to our standards like we discussed.  I know there we will review that how often do we make changes?  How often are we reviewing to see the comparison?  
>>  The last nine years, we have only amended the chapter 50 standards once.  They follow through.  There was no need for them to amend their code.  That is solely our responsibility.  
>>  Okay.  If the city does an update to their code in any way do we look at that or how often do we review that?  Could that be a function?  I am going to get to another thing and is hypothetical and you do not have to answer that.  The other thing Ben had hit on canals.  We do a lot of flooding was believed to have happen as a result of some of the damage due to the canals.  Or previous storms when canals were not cleaned out not ours but it could have been ours, I don't know.  I found out a lot of information about canals in the last couple of years.  Not knowing what was city, what was County, what will state.  Maybe that is what they can do because it impacts stormwater as well.  If you have oversight over that?  Right now we are relying on a lot of times citizens report they call it Councilman.  We notice if there are trash, debris, a bed sitting in the canal.  And usually we in turn call on public works where they do the same and it is cleaned out.  If that was something done on a regular basis like this area needs to be cleaned out more frequently?  
>>  Maintenance is an important aspect.  You want to make sure they are flowing free and we based and I talked about it when we talk about the stormwater utility inspection based system with some routine maintenance and maintenance on inspection.  There's some canals that need a cleaning every six years and are some canals that need cleaning every six months.  I can speak to what we do with regards to your point there are other canals and other drainage assets that are not responsible of Volusia County.  They are looking at an area where the flooding is really a result of a DOT asset.  The water from the nova canal leads to County assets.  It touches everybody so there is not one entity that maintains all of them.  
>>  The chairman asked a good question with respect to properties that we see flood traditionally every storm.  I understand every storm is different.  Ground that was not saturated before and saturated for the storm.  It could've been we received so many inches of rain prior to the storm like we saw with recent storms.  And we look at anything?  We are constantly looking at properties for acquisition for preservation or why not.  That looks like a good piece of property and I know that the owner was willing to allow us to pump water there but what if there's a different owner?  Mines change.  I do not want you pumping water so we're not going to allow that.  I know that it is all incumbent upon the seller wanting to sell.  We're not going to be able to acquire it unless they are willing to sell.  Have we looked at that?  This is a huge piece of property that we can use for that retention.  
>>  Yes.  We budget certain amount of money for property acquisition.  In the multiple properties that we have acquired their typically smaller.  We talked about the DPE.  We are aware and we knew where there were lots that were low where water naturally drained.  We saw them, and we were able to contact the owner.  Sometimes we got them for three – $5000 which is a good deal at the time.  From that standpoint, yes we are always on the lookout for property.  We work with staff -- 
>>  We are aware of the properties and we discussed that is a good place to put some water and more is a good example that is where we are pumping and where we pumped water from Taylor road.  To answer your question, yes.
>>  It came to mind with the lake Miller whether there were any properties.  I know there was one specific piece of property see -- property.  
>>  In regard to acquisitions of land within the floodplain, you may have heard the state of Florida is utilizing.  Basically, what you have right now is a grant program run by FEMA that is repetitive loss properties.  It file multiple claims within the last 10 years.  Typically, it is 75% paid by FEMA and 25%.  It is to vacate and make it open space conservation.  The elevate Florida program is coming in and helping out with property owners who want to get out by possibly offering the match being paid for them.  Also that is something that Ben crew is a potential option for our efforts to secure some of these properties in the floodplain.  Other aspect and Brad is probably running down here right now is that we do have a small lot acquisition program through Volusia for ever.  They have been targeting specific antiquated subdivisions.  Cape Atlantic Estates, West Highlands where we can go in and where we can buy strategically some of these lots to prevent them from being developed and utilized for open space for stormwater.  
>>  Thank you.  
>>  Danny Robins do you want to wrap this up?  
>>  Chairman, I do not see anyone else appear.  Before we get into public comments, I just am getting ready to make a motion now that we have established this solid jurisdictional foundation.  I like to make a motion.  The public speakers just for this meeting to provide their address so we know if there are in a city or a municipality or in corporate County that we we can address and triage these issues.  And pinpoint where these problems are actually existing.  That is the motion.  
>>  Is there a second on a motion to require speakers to give their address?  
>>  A question before a second if I may Mr. chair?  
>>  Did you say city or full address?  
>>  Their address and if it is within the city or unincorporated county.  That way we can pinpoint some of the issues so they can be beneficial for us and give us a better idea of how to address some of the issues and give us a path forward.  We know we have to deal with it if it is County.  
>>  I don't have a problem with that.  I will second that.
>>  With a motion to require speakers to give their address a motion by Danny Robins and a second by David Santiago.  I will oppose that as I always do for matters of safety.  But I think what you could do is when you come up tell us what city you are in.  Tell us you are in an incorporated Volusia or a municipality.  Any other comments or questions before I call for the vote?  
>>  It would be for us so we can verify and staff can verify the information.  It is all public information anyway.  
>>  I understand.  All in favor required the speakers to get full address say Aye.  All opposed say, Aye.  Can you call the roll?  Mr. Dempsey.
>>  Is this for full address?  
>>  This is for the speakers full address.  
>>  Pardon me?  
>>  No.  
>>  Thank you.  
>>  Mr. Kent.
>>  No.
>>  Mr. Reinhart.
>>  No.
>>  Mr. Robins.
>>  I will say, no.  I can also amend the motion to say city or county to make this easy.  Thank you chairman X Mr. Santiago?  
>>  I don't know what happened.
>>  The vote is the same.  If someone wants to make a motion?  
>>  No.
>>  Jeffrey Brower?  
>>  No.
>>  When I call your name please come up.  You have three minutes to speak.  If you do a less there's quite a few of you that want to speak.  Tell us what city you are from so that your representative know who you are.  Most of you know if you are in unincorporated Volusia or not.  
>>  I did just want to let you know that we have approximately 87 speakers that have signed up to speak.  
>>  I wanted to make a suggestion Mr. Chairman if I may?  If we have 86 or 87 speakers that means we are going to be hearing from speakers for 4.4 hours from now.  If you're number 85 go home and take a nap and come back in 4.3 hours.  Obviously, I am being funny.  I wanted to recommend Mr. chair in the interest of getting through every speaker because I noticed the room has thinned out already.  We would entertain reducing that time to one minute per speaker which means we will be out of here.  It sounds like the audience do not like it.  I withdraw my comments.  Get comfortable.
>>  If you can do less because what he says is right.  There are 8070 but you have this in to us for three hours.  Just be succinct and remember what I said at the beginning for all of us.  If somebody says something you don't like, you don't boo.  It takes longer for the downstairs people to come up.  I think the first person and I don't know what time you got here but it is Michelle Delaney?  And then Allison.  If you want to come up from downstairs.
>>  I want to point out for the people in chambers as well as downstairs if you take a peek at the screens over here the next three people will be shown on the screen.  That way they can start to make their way up.  
>>  Where you from?  
>>  I am from Orange County, Orlando.  I work in Volusia every day.  Thank you for the opportunity to speak today.  As we continue to navigate the challenges of managing growth and maintaining a high quality of life in Volusia County, it is essential that we remain focused on both the immediate and long-term needs of our community.  We are all aware that Volusia County is currently at a crossroads in terms of growth and development.  Recently, as you know, we are here as a significant discussion about the possibility of implementing a moratorium on building in response to growing concerns about stormwater management and the potential strain on our infrastructure.  Yes, this is a complex issue as we just heard.  One that must be addressed with careful consideration and thoughtful solutions.  I personally have never been one to throw the baby out with the bathwater.  So let's first reviewed the facts.  In your local budget for Volusia County, you allocated approximately $10.9 million.  On your budget left $3.2 million was used for employee related costs.  Approximately 2.2 million was for operations.  On capital improvement, you spent $2995.  These allocations highlighted it critical and balance while significant funds have been earmarked for staffing and day-to-day operations which are crucial.  Only a small portion has been directed towards the long-term structure improvement and capital investments in stormwater systems.  As a result, we are facing a growing gap between the infrastructure we have and the infrastructure we need to support the continued development of our community.  This is particularly important that the frequency of surveyor weather events and the strength that rapid development can place on a stormwater systems.  So what can we do about it.  Today, all of my clients are in the construction industry.  We are talking about solutions here ladies and gentlemen.  Not drastic steps.  1st and foremost, it is essential to strike a balance while a moratorium on new development may seem like a solution, it is critical to recognize that growth is inevitable.  People love Florida.  And we want them to love Volusia County.  We need to be proactive in finding ways to manage that growth in a way that ensures a long-term sustainability of our stormwater systems and overall infrastructure.  Here are a few suggestions that could help address these concerns.  Reallocation of funds for capital improvements.  We need to prioritize stormwater infrastructure.  
>>  Thank you for your comments.  
>>  Has been three minutes?  
>>  Yes it has.
>>  Thank you for let me speak.
>>  Where do you see a list?  The people that are downstairs are going to wait for three hours?  John Nichols, you're next.  John Nicholson.  Will be followed by Frank.  
>>  John Nicholson Daytona Beach.  I have three concepts comparing apples to apples and oranges to oranges.  I also have, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.  The third is do no harm.  I have been to 3000 4000 County meetings.  Water stays on the property.  I've heard it a million times for you today I hear the water that flows onto the property is allowed to flow off of the property.  So if we have as we have also seen on the chart 18 inches of rain if 18 inches of rain flows onto the property, do we say 2 inches of rain flows off?  Or is it logical to say that if 18 inches flow on 18 inches flow off.  If you are at the bottom, you get the water.  An apples to apples are you absolutely positive that it is not the excessive rain that is causing the flooding?  You are absolutely positive that it is development and not the excessive rain that is causing the flooding.  You have to be sure of that.  Secondly I used to walk the baby.  In 1998 hurricane Floyd came through and I walked by the property and had a 25 foot sand dune.  All of a sudden the sand dune went away and there was a seawall.  Why would anybody build a seawall 25 feet under a sand dune?  My neighbor said, we haven't had a hurricane in 26 years.  Back then the seawall was at sea level.  That is what is happening now.  We are going through drought and rain.  We had two decades of drought and now we are going through rain.  Contrary to what some of you may think, you cannot control the weather.  This council has to deal with the weather that is given.  If it is flooding, it is flooding.  Do what you can.  I would ask that you send Ben on a roadshow to the cities to show what he has in the city.  Most of the people that they will go to the nearest city hall to see this, I think they need to see it.  Thank you.  
>>  Frank?  Followed by Mike.  
>>  Frank, unincorporated district for and we flooded.  Council members are encouraged to see the community come together and collectively identify flooding is an issue.  Unfortunately we have jumped to a conclusion without any factual basis to support it.  It is reckless and irresponsible for any of our local government officials to place blame and harm to an industry responsible for building the very locations that every single individual here will retreat to when this meeting concludes.  A farmer or productive approach will be too engage collectively identify and work together to affect the needed change.  Construction is a vital component to the current economy as you continue to hear today.  If you question construction is important let me bring you back to the beginning of the pandemic when everything in the county was shutting down and everything in the country was shutting down.  Governor DeSantis signed two orders designating construction.  We just witnessed a 2024 elections to the conclusion interestingly enough both presidential candidates identified the national housing shortage as a priority and proposed policies to help increase the production of housing.  It wasn't just a campaign issue as Pres. Biden also recognize housing importance by making it a key theme in his last date of the union address.  I truly believe we will hear it again when Pres. Trump delivers his State of the Union address.  I was practicing Volusia County featured in the November 2034 issue of Florida trend magazine.  The caption read, the greater Daytona region is rising and promise as a crossroad place to do both business and live in the heart of Central Florida.  If you have been a resident of Volusia County long enough, you know how hard we have work to get to this point.  The work does not end here as we continue to attract commerce and industry, we need to be mindful of where that require workforce will need to live.  These issues go hand-in-hand and we can't lose sight of that.  My final thought is if you move forward with the moratorium and dismissed tens of thousands of the license local professional residence in the construction industry who will you call and who will call when the next -- [INDISCERNIBLE].  
>>  Mike Town Manager?  You be followed by Nicole.
>>  Thank you very much counsel for calling this meaning.  We appreciate the opportunity and listen to the fine presentation from the county staff and your insightful question.  I'm here today to share little bit about pond inlet.  I want to share pond inlet is different from the communities that we have been discussing in the news.  Mainly we are built out.  We have 150 vacant residential lots in the entire place.  14 commercial parcels that are vacant.  The last subdivision we had was in 2020 and the one before that was 2002.  It is a little different situation and that we have a lot of residential properties that were built before the storm water standards.  Trying to retrofit the areas and deal with the transition between the newer homes and the new standards sitting side-by-side with the existing properties for those standards.
We were looking at funding at this point, but we want to partner with you and share information we have gathered to work toward you with these new improved standards. 
Thanks. 
>> CHAIR BROWER: Thank you, well done. 
Nicole, followed by John Johnson. 
     >>  Nicole Burgess Daytona beach pickle today is my daughter's 20th birthday she and her two roommates were living in my home when it flooded for the second time in two years. 
Moneywise children were young I sent Doug about a problem without talking about a solution is wrong. 
So each of my boys today are solutions to the direct public comments rising from the City Council. 
To the developers I think the development safety of the developers money. 
And it is less expensive to in waterways and natural vegetation other than grading traditional stormwater management system and having to plan to do landscaping. 
To the realtors more concerned about home sales my husband was a real estate photographer, and our livelihood depends on your livelihood. 
Market trends are showing this slow a statewide housing market due to skyrocketing insurance costs, and repeating flooding. 
He been homes about water helps you. 
On behalf of the contractors, subcontractors, and treatment concerned about lost wages I can point you to the building industry moving fund. 
Additionally, I would like to ask Volusia County to assist homeowners paired with various roofers, carpenters, painters and the like so we can help rebuild our home that are still needing repairs. 
And to the Council members who asked for more studies, I would like to remind you that we have repeated studies such as the 2015 308 page Volusia County integrated floodplain management plan, and the 2020, 599 page multijurisdictional local mitigation strategy which talks about environmental impact consideration, feasibility of an limitation, and cost ratio. 
I would like to personally thank you Mr. Johansen, Mr. Brower and Mr. Kent for the time he spent with himself and the Bates group in oriented solution strategies. 
And to Mr. Santiago, that anytime we wait tried to come up with decisions and put together new plans only impacts existing visuals in your community. 
A moratorium is not the best solution we already have actions that can be taken today. 
I am asking you gentlemen to be an example of how government can work. 
But I am also asking you to show efficiency. 
Mother nature will not wait she does not care if Tuesday or Flag Day or my daughter's birthday. 
The combined damage to personal and commercial properties from hurricanes Ian and Nicole, and Hilton have $954.9 million. 
Decide today that building on wetlands as part of the problem. 
Maintaining national topography and natural vegetation is part of the solution. 
Optional, low income develop it as part of the problem. 
Mandatory low income is part of the solution. 
And if you will excuse me up go celebrate my daughter's birthday. 
>> CHAIR BROWER: Thank you, John Johnson is not here we will go to that Justin who is next. 
Then follow by JC Figueredo. 
     >>  I did not write down what I wanted to say because I wasn't sure. 
After listening to all of you I think the lady who spoke last, we have all the studies we need now we need to put our feet to work. 
Because I was at the state meeting last week. 
And every city except for the city of Delina and Daytona came in with goals and what they needed. 
But I did not see any if you there, too. 
Mr. Q&A was there but I did not speak well at that meeting. 
I think we need to just get moving because hurricane season is barreling down on us and we are holding water. 
Thank you Mr. Kent and thank you Mr. Dempsey, for being helping. 
Thank you. 
>> CHAIR BROWER: JC. Figueredo. 
     >>  Thank you, my name is JC Figueredo district 1 I brought a couple of pictures here, there are models I made. 
We got them? 
So, like she said have a lot of this data we need the question is do we have somebody who can understand it and put it to use. 
Can you go to the other one? 
We can go back to this one. 
This is what I've made in my driveway this morning. 
My wife looked at me like what the hell I was doing out there with a shovel and a gallon of water. 
What I did here, the concrete. 
This is what is happening in all these wetlands when taking these funds. 
You are building up – what we are doing is allowing to be built up. 
And in the top one, the top left is the pond and all the rocks or houses to address that. 
I put a half gallon of water in that than build this other one. 
And ice bungled three quarters of a gallon of water on that one. 
And what I am showing here is when we dig into the water in these wet areas, which is happening all over the county. 
The water that we are storing in these ponds from rain is fast tracking it to the water table, which is seeping out and flooding the surrounding areas. 
This model can be built on a much better scale. 
It was done quick. 
What you are seeing in the top left is the water seeping through the sand that all these retention ponds are built out of. 
Right? 
So when you were talking about earlier, how do we make sure the water stays in it? 
We can't, it is not happening. 
The water is fast tracking out. 
Went soil, and the reason we are seeing all of this spread forward and white regulation change and rules need to be put in place, is because when the soil gets wet water most through it quicker. 
When dry it meets resistance when wet it fast tracks it. 
So at this point what we need to do is put this in place and stop this from affecting all of the developments, west of us, 10 Oaks, the country club, all of that was built on natural topography which is starting to hold water. 
So, I got asked earlier, it is rainwater it deserves to go in the ground like every thing else. 
It does. 
Maybe we need to look at some type of underground drain field system under a common area, under roadways in these developments. 
But something needs to be done to control the rainwater. 
And be released into the water table at some sort of natural state. 
Also, I definitely think if you can update the chapter 50 to eliminate the cities and other municipalities from bringing in reclaimed water and deep water wells to fill the pond that would be great. 
That should not be allowed, thank you. 
>> CHAIR BROWER: Thank you. 
[APPLAUSE]
Jorge Figueredo.  
     >>  Thank you very much, thank you for your time. 
I want to first couple meant you for how you are working together. 
Last time I was here you were fighting and all of that. 
Thank you for working together to try and figure this out. 
The first thing I would like to say, I have come in here and been pretty hard on this board. 
I am sorry, but I met what I said back then. 
But I think you all really get this. 
I think you understand. 
Thank you for understanding. 
By the way I am in Deland, District 1, Mr. Dempsey's area. 
So, thank you. 
I don't think staff gets it. 
And you all are relying on staff to answer your questions. 
And really, especially professional engineers which I did my entire career. 
If you don't ask the right precise question, the exact question you want answered you will get answers that will lead you astray and are not going to satisfy what you need to know. 
So please be very careful with that. 
The other about staff as they are good at dragging their feet, running the clock out. 
So, you need to push them, you need to push them hard. 
Data up there I suffer involved data. 
I have a PhD, I can use data. 
If I wanted to spend a lot of time on this I bet I can make this data look incredibly different. 
What the staff is refusing, I think, subconsciously maybe consciously to accept. 
Is that development has had a significant impact on the flooding. 
It has. 
All this talk about the hurricanes, yes, of course nobody will survive a 20 inch storm event will not happen. 
But it would not be as bad we did not have this development, where's the problem? 
The problem is in the guidelines and the requirements for the drainage and storm management. 
We have a flawed process in place every day level limit the approve going forward will be built for, 6 feet above the others involved the same problem JC just pointed out. 
I am sorry for the developers they are not to blame. 
They are only following what is approved and what is required by the professional engineers and the professional water people. 
And they told them to put the housing on the site about elephant ears on the would do it. 
They deserve to be working. 
But what is the active – I forget what Einstein said if you do the same thing over and over again you get the same result. 
Okay. 
That is why you need some kind of pause, because if you keep allowing the developments to be built with the same specification that the professionals have placed, you will get the same results. 
And instead of hundreds of people you will get hundreds more, thousands. 
Because a look at the existing element will be overwhelmed by the higher development. 
And the flawed design. 
I think there is a flawed design being built out there. 
And so listen, thank you, because I think you all get it. 
And you all are victims. 
>> CHAIR BROWER: Thank you. 
Quick cities have taken advantage if you. 
     >>  Pamela Teator. You will be followed by Nathan Richardo.
>>  My husband and I live on E. Taylor Rd. In the and incorporated part of district 1. 
After our home flooded in the last hurricane we were out of our homes more than 2.5 months. 
We missed Thanksgiving, we barely data backing for Christmas leaving no time for any family visits or celebrations. 
As family time will never get back. 
I trust you got to visit and make memories with your families and you had a delightful holiday because we didn't. 
I am here asking you today for a moratorium on building to address the issues of flooding in our County before the next hurricane comes and floats us. 
Which probably will happen and it is just a short time away. 
Every single time it rains I get anxiety. 
I have repeatedly asked for something to be done about the retention pond located behind our home that regularly overflows onto our property. 
Because it causes a large body of water on the land. 
I asked for to be around it or do something. 
I don't even know how that is legal, anyway, that is what I understood. 
Our ditches remain full of water, and asked for those to be decked out, nothing. 
We get nothing. 
How are you going to protect us from the water that loves our area in the next hurricane or even in the next rainy season, because this happens to us in the rainy season before the hurricane they did that. 
All I hear is study, study. 
And I can appreciate knowing all the facts. 
But it is time now to address the flooding issue. 
By taking some real steps that we can see whether or not the moratorium is the answer. 
Please, is there some way to appeal to you to take the significant first steps to address the flooding. 
People like me we are still suffering over this issue. 
And we need help now. 
Without your help we can see no path forward. 
We feel hopeless. 
Please, do the right thing and move forward with either the moratorium or steps to begin addressing these flooding issues in the County. 
Thank you. 
 >> CHAIR BROWER: Thank you. 
You are Nathan, tell us your last name? 
>> Nathan Richachar I did hear before you to address the crackle issue that affect all of us in Volusia County, flooding. 
As we have seen in recent months flooding is not just a convenience it is to the safety and stability of our community. 
For the devastation of homes and businesses to the emotional toll it takes on families this problem cannot be ignored any longer. 
Yet, I want to propose a solution outlined in the moratorium on buildings as some may suggest. 
But a proactive strategic approach to address flooding at its core. 
Rather than halting growth we should focus on developing and limiting solutions to make our community more resilient, safer, prepare for the challenges. 
One such solution is the adoption of a flooding mitigation fund. 
A dedicated funding mechanism and debt financing and repair of letting restart Volusia County. 
This would not only exist existing homes and businesses but would ensure that our growth remains responsible and sustainable for years to come. 
The key to making this fund a reality is fund finding a flexible and sustainable funding mechanism. 
We have a range of options that can be tailored to our communities these. 
For example a sales tax coming Friday steady stream of revenue have critical medication. 
This would be a broad-based approach ensuring everyone would have benefits from our infrastructure has its upkeep and increments. 
Another option is a dedicated millage which would have a stable long-term funding source specifically earmarked for flooding mitigation efforts. 
This would make sure resources are consistently available year after year for much needed infrastructure repairs and upgrades. 
Special assessment could also be lamented in the areas most affected with funds being used for localized flooding mitigation solutions that directly benefit those neighborhoods. 
Additionally, we must explore grants from state, federal sources. 
These can help support large and more complex mitigation projects. 
From approved drainage systems to flood barriers of floodwater management technologies buckle by securing grant funds we can stretch our resources further and maximize the impact of flooding mitigation fund by limiting one more of these funding mechanisms will be able to address flooding risk and protecting our homes. 
Our infrastructure and quality of life. 
More and partly, would be able to continue our growth and community in a way that is safe, stable and resilient. 
This is not about halting development, it is about ensuring we build. 
We do with foresight, response ability, and care for the future. 
The answer is the answer to flooding is not to freeze progress but to have more effective ways to manage our growth while safeguarding against the very risk of flooding. 
Today together we can great a Volusia County not only prepared for the challenges of today but the one stands for understanding, resilience, growth. 
Let's invest in solutions a protector homes, families and futures, thank you. 
>> CHAIR BROWER: Thank you for your comments. 
Elliott Meadows, Allison root and Cindy Harris. 
>>  A, everybody I am Elliott Meadows, I want to back each and every one of you guys for putting yourself out here and making your opinions known. 
I also wanted to thank you all the people that spoke before and showed the charts. 
I spoke with Ms. Joslin here earlier and her and I have talked she has flooding issues, I am a builder. 
However we are dealing with press when stuff like I said I own many, many houses in Holly Hills, four Orange, Smyrna, Edgewater. 
Three of my houses flooded so I understand and I respect and appreciate every one of you guys going through issues. 
Because I'm going through the same exact issues. 
But I can't get flooded and also lose my job. 
I know Ms. Joslin and Ms. Burgess were saying Elliott just do some repairs on some houses and you will be fine and that may be true. 
But at the same time I have been working 25 years to be a builder. 
It is my career it is what I've chosen to do with my life that is that I affect my community, help my family and friends. 
Said to just say hey, stop, it is not appropriate it is not right of not asking if you to stop your careers because of some other issue if I stopped my career today it is not going to affect the flooding issue. 
I wanted to bring up one really interesting thing because all of the houses I own personally that flooded were all from the sixties and fifties and forties. 
So the point that was made in the last hundred years – I think – I can't member but the last 100 years. 
I think it was the attorney. 
But we did not have the rainfall in the last 100 years we have had in the first way five years of the century. 
So if you just look at those totals, I think it is ready obvious what is going on. 
The older houses that did not have the rules and regulations that we built with today, those houses are the ones that are all flooding. 
You are not hearing about the houses in Victoria Hills flooding. 
You not hearing about those in Spruce Creek flooding it is the ones that were built before the rules and regulations were in place. 
So, you know, we are using the fact that a, let's stop the builders the builders the ones doing it. 
In fact, we are allowed to build without regulations in the forties, fifties, sixties. 
And just finally in the eighties they said hey, hold on, To put your house about the road. 
You do? 
Cool. 
So now what we are looking at is FEMA is actually going to make all these houses get torn down. 
Your them mention the elevated Florida situation. 
If you spent more than 60% of last year's taxable value of your building in a five year period. 
They will make you elevate that house or tear it down. 
Guess what? 
If you use the save our home exited not have to pay the elevated right in Texas does it this little old ladies house for the last 20 years is what she is a smaller building value and she will turn on her house. 
Let's not do it, guys. 
! 
Allison Root? 
>> CHAIR BROWER: Allison Root  and Cindy Harris. 
What could evening chair and council member's name is Allison Root I live in the city of Deltona I represent today the Volusia building Association which is located in Holly Hills. 
State I want to address the stormwater issues facing our counties. 
While I recognize the devastation some of us have experienced, I urge you to consider a moratorium construction could have serious consequences for both our county and local economy. 
According to an American community survey, the seventh Congressional District of Florida, which includes the southern part of our county, brings in the top 10 nationally for construction industry employment. 
With over 20,000 residents in residential construction. 
This represents many families who depend on new construction for their financial stability. 
Moreover we must consider the impact on our local government. 
I am there was data given earlier from 2024. 
But in a 2023 I sent you guys an email with the study that we paid to have done. 
And with the average permit price here in Volusia County, constructing just 100 single-family homes in Lucia County generates over 5.3 million in taxes. 
Taxes and other revenue, permit fees, impact fees, all the fees that coincide with that. 
That is just the first year of construction. 
In 2023 Volusia County issued over 2000 permits. 
So for every 100 homes that is 5.3 million in revenue and you did over 2000 permits, that is a lot of revenue. 
Without that revenue are we running the risk for budget cuts on any kind of programs that you offer? 
Staff because, I don't know. 
Or would it lead to an increase in our taxes as Volusia County residents? 
It is just points we need to consider before we make such a huge jumper go additionally, we did take about how a moratorium on school impact fees will affect our school board. 
We have had ongoing concerns all over the county about overcrowding in schools. 
And cutting off a key revenue source for them for building would only worsen the problem with the current 2024/25 school year budget includes $10 million in revenue generated from new construction pickle your ultimately putting a moratorium on building new schools as well because they are losing their funding. 
These are vital questions. 
We must address before making a drastic decision to halt construction. 
While stormwater retention is essential are solutions that won't cripple our economy or our local government. 
Other counties and government have faced similar challenges and overcome them. 
The be BIA is eager to work with you to share successful strategies that can be limited here. 
We have many ideas to help mitigate stormwater issues without incurring extra taxpayer cost or lengthy delays. 
>> CHAIR BROWER: Thank you for your comments. 
>>  Thank you. 
>> CHAIR BROWER: Mary Stelane followed by fellow Schwartz followed by Michael McGee. 
>>  Good evening, Cindy Harris I am from District 3, and Danny's district. 
I have the privilege of hosting a neighborhood meeting at my house last week with Denny Robbins and Ben Bartlett. 
It was very interesting, I learned that I live 22 feet above sea level. 
And that is pretty cool, logic would tell thew 22 feet you would flood, right? 
Well, my neighborhood is in a man made bowl and we flood ready that. 
Can you go to the next page, please. 
This is my house after Ian in 2022. 
And the next page. 
This was my yard after a thunderstorm last September. 
And, the next page. 
There we go. 
This was the picture after Milton. 
Every storm, my neighborhood was like this all because of a man made bowl. 
So, Mr. Kenneth, I get it. 
Every time there is construction everything is elevated, and elevated, and elevated. 
I am not here to really talk about the moratorium I am talking about solutions because building codes are getting stricter. 
And worse because Florida is nothing but wetlands. 
There are solutions out there but we are one community, Volusia. 
We all need to work together. 
And a very brilliant engineer which every one of you knows, AJ from sea level development came to my house and talked in my neighborhood. 
And he had a brilliant idea, it is called sand plugs. 
You go and you aerate your yard, with sand plugs. 
This is an idea you probably throw into a development. 
Instead of ponds, retention ponds that don't retain anything. 
They aerate the golf courses. 
So that they stay green they don't retain water. 
And I just want to tell the Council, I am so glad you are working together tonight. 
This is been a very interesting meeting. 
And the public is looking to you to help. 
And I want to keep that at the back of your head. 
We are looking for you we need your guidance so thank you for this evening. 
And one more thing, the stormwater study will not be done until spring 2026. 
Just so you know, thank you. 
>>  Thank you, Mary stilling, Bella short, Michael McGee. 
>>  Good evening Mary stilling I am a resident of Volusia Creek. 
Said of a gun. 
My community was established 56 years ago, that was a long time. 
In that time we have seen hurricanes, however the last two years we have seen never before flooding. 
This was an established community. 
It caused road damage, and the closing of our main entrance. 
Is a 1598 homes and businesses onto Airport Road. 
That in and of itself is called flooding. 
As a direct result of previous County commissions a large swath of land without adequate planning, but a fierce strain to Spruce Creek, St. John's rivers, canals, tributaries all over, all of them overreaching their limits, every single one. 
The electric commissioners, now on a one year moratorium. 
No known crowded buildings identify areas, just to identify areas of flooding. 
Correct the current disaster areas, one year is not a long time when you are looking at the next hurricane. 
Also, it is known as your mess this time, you cannot put it on anyone else's shoulders anymore. 
This was the St. John's River water district to put its findings to you, Volusia County, correct deficiency, plan for the next years and don't worry about the Burge Harris I am sure you can get around that with all the problems we have experienced, it appears to me you need to act now not later, not tomorrow, thank you. 
[APPLAUSE]. 
>> CHAIR BROWER: Bella Schwartz you will be followed by Michael McGee, and then Alexa Schwartz. 
Is Bella here? 
>>  Good afternoon councilmembers and chair. 
Okay can I restart the time, please? 
>> CHAIR BROWER: Yes. 
Quick good afternoon because a member and chair what wonderful people you represent here in Volusia. 
The folks here are kind and ambitious when I see an issue in the community they do what they can to help with a solution. 
I know this because just a few days ago I had a position to end violence in the county. 
I showed it to everyone I knew outside my high school. 
I am currently 16 at delaying high school. 
What I anticipated to be small petitions turned into viral post containing over 2000 signatures. 
I repeat over 10,000 signatures from the youth and even locals. 
Sent this to all of you via email. 
While spreading this petition I did not encounter a single person who opposed a building moratorium, in fact so many of my classmates who have been victims of the flooding, even ones wanted to spread it further. 
One sent a message he could not even access his home, which had been in his family for generations. 
From this petition I learned and realized three things. 
One, that the people of Volusia deeply care about but I felt helpless against fighting it. 
Two, that the only reason overdevelopment could possibly be continued this long is due solely to grade. 
And three, that teenagers are more powerful than I ever thought they could be. 
The youth is not a powerless group, we may not have the money for the spots in government, or even be of voting age. 
But teenagers are still the most powerful group because we are the future of this county. 
And we are hoping that each one of you represent your constituents accurately. 
By ending development in Volusia, everyone, show of hands who here once the development to stop? 
Please, vote accordingly. 
Thank you. 
>> CHAIR BROWER: Thank you, Michael McGee? 
Followed by Alexa Schwartz, is Michael here? 
Okay, Alexa Schwartz followed by Raquel Levy. 
>>  Good afternoon councilmembers my name is Alexa and I am 17 attending Deland high school. 
I am here today to speak in favor of the building moratorium here in Volusia County. 
I was born and raised in Volusia having spent the first half of my childhood in Ormond by the sea. 
And I miss the way my beach town was. 
I remember one of the last green space was bulldozed to build a wall, that was a very sad day. 
A place that used to be filled with so many Oaktree's and while it has been replaced by concrete and more cars. 
The second half of my childhood was spent in Deland private injured many activities in nature including kayaking, aching, and I even got certified for scuba at our local Springs. 
Whether East side or west side nature has been the anchor to some of my happiest childhood memories. 
And as we go into the future I would like for my children to experience those same childhood memories. 
However, with every tree that falls I realize becomes less and less likely. 
I am asking all of you here today to restore our date and the nature of Volusia and vote for a moratorium here in Volusia County, thank you. 
[APPLAUSE]. 
>> CHAIR BROWER: Raquel Levy, Frank mower and Theresa Krause. 
>>  Hello, good afternoon, and congratulations on your reelection Mr. Brower. 
Bella Schwartz started a petition for a moratorium here in Volusia. 
And she was hoping to get about 100 signatures and come and talk to you guys. 
She got well over 2000 without much effort. 
And most of the signatures came from her high school. 
So, it speaks as to what the youth of Volusia want. 
And, I believe it is a moratorium. 
My name is -- Raquelle Levy I am a local attorney here and I am not a constitutional lawyer I do not know I am not a government lawyer I'm a personal injury lawyer. 
But I do know that our founding fathers wanted property rights to be protected. 
However, the right of each individual ends for the right of their neighbor begins. 
So, if we are going to look at property rights with the highest level of constitutional scrutiny. 
Mr. Dempsey, I am sure you would understand this better than I would. 
It is required to have a strict scrutiny standard which is the highest dented allowed by law. 
And a strict scrutiny standard cause for a compelling ever mental interest to restrict that right. 
Which means we acknowledge many conservatives for conservation. 
Acknowledge that property rights are very, very important. 
But when you have compelling interest to put a temporary restriction on those rates for the greater public good and that interest is compelling, I think we should notice that. 
Because here we are having flooding, we are having contaminated water, we are having more car accidents, and the future of our children is harming with every tree that falls. 
The future longs to them, and many of us here grew up in Volusia and at a beautiful, wonderful childhood, you know, people are coming here what are they coming here for? 
Are they coming here to see subdivisions? 
More subdivisions? 
People saying we need our jobs, what are they going to do when the last tree falls and there is nowhere else to clear in the name of greed? 
Tearing down the environment is not survival it is pure unadulterated greed. 
That is what it is. 
[APPLAUSE] thank you, please vote in favor of the moratorium. 
>> CHAIR BROWER: Thank you for your comments Frank
Mohar
Theresa
Krauss
And Jamie Robertson. 
>>  Good afternoon and board members my name is Mike Mohar I'm excited to speak before you I've been a resident of Volusia County since 1977. 
For the last 30 years have donated hundreds if not thousands of hours of my time on multiple boards throughout our community. 
As of this community, I am passionate about it, compassionate about working with leaders in our community to move our community forward in a positive direction. 
My heart goes out to the residents that have experience flooding after three hurricane seasons. 
I personally was living in wellbore by the CSO my whole backyard go to the ocean. 
We have seen devastation and hurricane like we never have before. 
Over the last three years this area has been hit by five hurricanes and sustained 16 feet of rainfall. 
These extreme weather events overwhelmed our infrastructure and it is imperative we do a better job to prepare for such catastrophic events in the future. 
Clay touch on the DEP. 
The DEP made major changes to our development which I am sure many of you are aware of, to residents of residual and commercial. 
Which will substantially increase storage water on sites. 
Putting a moratorium on development is not the answer. 
This would be financial suicide not only for the County but the cities as well. 
Over half the workforce of Volusia County would be negatively impacted and thousands of jobs would be lost. 
Nearly 10 years ago is to before this council I did not have any gray hair at all. 
And presented a recommendation as part of the redevelopment community. 
That was appointed by this county, this report took over a year of weekly meetings in collaboration with multiple citizens and including myself and Commissioner Well. 
To my knowledge the city never recommended any saying a lack of resources. 
Volusia County has multiple issues that need to be addressed. 
Volusia County faces unique challenges. 
According to Florida Volusia County is one of the slowest growing counties in the state. 
That is great. 
I would urge this council to focus on proactive solutions such as improving drainage in low-lying areas, retaining retention streams, addressing blight of the committee, working with Daytona Beach and other cities for positive changes. 
Continuing attracting high-paying jobs and retain our talented youth, the number one export in our community. 
Has been our children because of the lack of high-paying jobs. 
All of these initiatives require resources but they also demand vision and cooperation. 
And most portly, leadership. 
By working together we can great positive changes, improve the quality of life for all residents. 
Let's take meaningful steps forward in a positive direction, thank you. 
[APPLAUSE]. 
>> CHAIR BROWER: Thank you for your comments, Theresa Krauss followed by David Robertson followed by Doug Bell. 
>>  Good evening, Madame chair Jeff Brower and district 5 representative David Santiago. 
We are 10 year residents of Glen Abbey and very Florida. 
I am here to request compensation and formal investigation of a new plan to prevent future flooding of the plantation basin and our property. 
When we purchased the property we were told there was a 17 million installation drain pump to prevent flooding. 
After 2008, after three hurricanes in which our past owner was flooded. 
On the evening of October 9th, find Valley core pumps were working and there was no flooding. 
On the morning of October 10th, the electricity went off at 3:30 in the morning. 
I looked out my back and front door and window. 
There was no standing water. 
When I woke up at 7 AM the electricity was still off, my backyard and front yard were flooded above each door. 
Water was seeping in the house and I tried to keep it dry with towels until sewer water came up to the master bath shower drains. 
The floodwaters consisted of fresh sewer and gasoline. 
At 9:15 AM our neighbors rescued my disabled husband, me, and one year-old puppy along with our important paperwork and pictures outside of our bay window. 
We drove to the orange city hotel and they did not have electricity so we stayed with friends. 
The outside of our house flooded over 15 inches, inside up to half a foot of water depending on the room. 
We were without power for three days. 
Everything that was on the floor was destroyed including my grandparents heirloom dining room set. 
All of our appliances inside and out were flooded. 
My vehicle was total due to the flooding. 
Our flood insurance settled the claim and paid 25% of the total adjuster estimates. 
Pima paid a minimal amount in the miscellaneous food and etc. But the remaining claims were denied. 
I had to speak to a counselor daily to cope with the events and aftermath. 
I met with the city manager and engineer to discuss our property, they shared the Miller Lake basin was pumping there water into the plantation basin without communicating with city officials. 
As part of the Volusia County $133 report I am requesting to be capitated for 75% of the flood adjusters estimates and loss of contents. 
I spectate formal investigation and new plant to prevent future flooding of my home. 
At the very least I expect that the county will pay for the purchasing cost of installation of Hydro barrier. 
>> CHAIR BROWER: Thank you. 
Thank you, for your comments. 
David Robinson. 
Followed by Doug Bell followed by Dennis Sheppard. 
>>  Good evening my name is David Robertson I am the director of advocacy for the Volusia Chamber of Commerce. 
On behalf of the Chamber of Commerce, Board of Directors, Volusia including 900 businesses and regional carrier. 
We appreciate the opportunity to speak today. 
We understand for the discussion today. 
When we speak of the chamber of commerce is important to have data and facts. 
We believe we have a serious flooding need and is needed immediately. 
However it is important to not have a prohibition the material of significant economic consequences for our region, impacting even those who are not experiencing flooding. 
A moratorium will hinder economic growth, hinder ongoing projects and obstacles for businesses beyond the moratorium. 
The Florida golf course University study that I shared with you all is the recovery from a government imposed moratorium allows up to two years after the mentor moratorium. 
We are not threatening that jobs will be lost, it has been substantiated to evoke major loss not only those in construction and the development industry. 
But for a wide range of industries that service needs and expanded business and residential growth. 
We acknowledge that some areas of Volusia County faced challenges with flooding some attributed to historic events, and some do to aging structures. 
We urge the County Council to engage with key stakeholders and find a solution that addresses both challenges without stifling progress. 
We support the solution that has offered is a collaborative approach, development and infrastructure needs. 
We ask you today to not support the countywide moratorium and focus on solutions that provide a clear path forward that benefits the country, – excuse me, the County, the businesses and residents alike. 
Thank you for your time. 
[APPLAUSE]. 
>> CHAIR BROWER: Doug Bell  followed by Scheffley. What I want to say this is a combination that over two years ago and Mr. Robinson on Facebook a couple of times into the people on the board. 
And the importance of that in the city. 
I would not be here today if not a stormwater and a stormwater ordinance have been followed. 
Which is the quantity of storm water retained predevelopment conditions and cautions would be taken to stop for sedimentation and flooded. 
I can testify to this – I am Doug Bell from unincorporated section and the land subdivision is right next to me. 
They did not follow these kinds of laws or ordinances I can testify to that. 
Because it used to be I was not flooded I am flooded right now. 
And flooded back in 2004 from three hurricanes. 
And the reason that happened is they put all that grass, buildings on a higher it was 40 acres back when I was there. 
Some of that comes down and it is flooding me and remained flooded. 
I was flooded two years in 2004. 
So I am a testament to that and I can tell you I have tears my property a little bit before all of this. 
Because I want to keep the water high so percolate down. 
That is a good storage area. 
Anyway. 
The other thing on my mind it is important to me. 
Five times I have approached different ways to try to find out where the municipalities had submitted their compliance with this section of all of chapter 50. 
And I have yet to find – according to what the post says. 
Says thereafter the County Council shall redo said ordinances for complies with this. 
After said from the municipality as to whether or not these for this division. 
I would like to see that paperwork back then. 
This should have been done in 1997. 
I would like to see. 
I have talked to this man's office, a couple other places I have gone, Forrester went back to his records he could not find it. 
So it is some place there that would be proof as to whether the municipalities had complied. 
I don't the they have. 
To landed, orange water did, but in limiting it. 
Following the directive on there obviously we are not because we are here today. 
And a lot of people are flooded. 
My sister was flooded, and I was flooded because they did not do it. 
Anyway I request to have the administered apart to show us these documents for they submitted these things to you, not to you here but back in 1997. 
I would love to have these documents made public so we can see what is going on. 
Thank you, very much. 
>> CHAIR BROWER: Thank you. 
Dennis Shepley followed by Connie Colby, followed by Tony Denizeo. 
>>  Good evening Dennis Shepley, Port Orange, and incorporated Volusia. 
I believe in growth and development, I am a contractor I have as many others do. 
However, I also believe the moratorium should be put in place pickle not for the reasons everyone is here but for the reason we have listened to two hours here. 
I visited Benjamin Portland, listening two hours of testimony that the answers for everything. 
But I've come to the conclusion, especially in my own, they do nothing. 
They cannot review the proper plant they are supposed to. 
They don't follow and inflect because they are supposed to we can have all the rules in place to protect us to have growth and development, as long as they have code enforcement and review the proper plans for they failed to do so. 
As we heard two hours at the answers for every think they did because they do the investigations. 
They sounded very good. 
They are not applying what they know and that is the problem. 
So I don't know but I have been through this growth and development office about 100 times in the last year. 
And I keep all different times morning, afternoon, evening. 
Nobody is there, I don't know where they go. 
And that is a problem. 
I can speak for hours, I do want to take time there is so much testimony is a problem and we have to weather for a moratorium or not does not matter we need to follow the rules like they are supposed to. 
Swim thank you, Connie Colby. 
Followed by Tony Dinizio followed by Wendy Anderson. 
>>  Good evening, good night, whatever it is now. 
Connie Colby I am in district 4, I did some talking last night. 
The picture that I put up is a picture that shows so much of what is going on. 
This is on the corner of Williamson Avenue does just Williamson Avenue and haberdashery in Hand Ave Beach. 
As you can see this was taken about two weeks ago. 
The amount of filthy but at this property is a must to the top of the fence. 
And today we passed by this on the way to this there is up to the top of the fence. 
And there were two strokes on top of it. 
The problem with this, too, encompasses three different areas. 
It is to the point where Daytona Beach, Norman Beach, and Daytona all come together. 
There are some County properties developed as well. 
Anything you perceive to do needs to be addressing multiple areas where they come together. 
Boundaries, and how they interact with one another. 
If there is some way of making sure they will put all that dirt there. 
It will affect us as well. 
The East side of that property backs up two properties that go back to Clyde Morris to Ormand Beach. 
There has been home along Oris. 
There has been senior development there at Aberdeen that is behind that as well. 
This'll area from there down to Daytona, lots of fill. 
Most feel there. 
I don't hear anybody talking about stopping building on wetlands at all tonight. 
I think that should be totally outlawed. 
And mitigation bank they are using for fill. 
The property that needs that and I don't think need at this point. 
As far as moving forward, it seems like it would be a good time to take a break. 
Some of the things we are talking about earlier, the reasons why I don't really know what is going on. 
Why there is so much fill – so much flooding. 
They still want to continue building. 
If you don't know what is going on, find out what it is flooding before you build more. 
The money you will lose, fire trucks, emergency vehicles. 
Thank you. 
>> CHAIR BROWER: Thank you very much. 
Tony Dinizio Wendy Anderson followed by DNA Colby. 
>>  My name is Tony Dinizio and immediate past president of Volusia building industry Association. 
Which you all reference as the VBIA going forward I am the owner and president of the builders Inc. Which is operating in Fallujah County the last 45 years. 
The chair and fellow councilmembers I want to thank you you all for your time today in service to Volusia County. 
I also want to express empathy on behalf of VBIA all staff into the stormwater victims. 
Many of our members, family, loved ones can relate to the issue our area stormwater has created. 
Leaders VBIA at have a worker to find the right solutions to mitigate these issues. 
1 Key Way to address the flooding issue and create long-term solutions is by establishing a stormwater roundtable. 
This roundtable would utilize the expertise of our local mitigation strategy to you. 
An existing Advisory Board bring it together, professionals, government officials, and community leaders to overly discuss funding, policy, and strategy to combat this flooding. 
This collaborative approach allows us have a wide range of insights grading a shared vision for how we can protect our infrastructure, improve drainage systems, and mitigate future stormwater risk. 
The roundtable would be critical. 
Provide a continuous dialogue for stormwater policy and ensure funding is allocated effectively. 
By establishing the advisory role we could stay ahead of potential issues ensuring the stormwater infrastructure is maintain, improve, and adapted to meet the needs of a growing community. 
This initiative is not just about talking it is about taking action. 
By working together, you can find innovative, practical solutions. 
That address both the immediate needs and long-term planning to protect our County from future flooding. 
We are not asking for a hold of progress but for a collective commitment to thoughtful and expanded growth. 
We can have both. 
We have a stronger more resilient Volusia County and make sure we are safeguarding our community is the increasing threats posed by flooding. 
Let's make this a turning point, not just for our infrastructure but our future. 
This roundtable could also be part of the water czar that everyone is talking about. 
Because I don't think it would be wise to put it on one person. 
I think it needs to be collaborative with everybody, government and public. 
And all the professionals. 
Thank you. 
>> CHAIR BROWER: Thank you. 
Wendy Anderson followed by Danny Mccool followed by James Clark. 
>>  Doctor Wendy Anderson I live in unincorporated Deland, district 1. 
Thank you for having this meeting tonight. 
It is really great to see everybody really putting their hearts and minds into this conversation. 
You know all the things I represent, all the things I am affiliated with and speaking only for ISIL tonight. 
I am neutral on the moratorium but like everybody in this room I want solutions and I want them today. 
It is true that total annual rainfall has increased, climate scientists say this is our new normal for the rest of your lifetime the rest of our children's lifetime this is our normal and we do need new development codes and designs – design and planning strategies to address them. 
Is also true we have more impervious surface than ever before. 
And so, you know, I can say more about that but I will jump forward. 
We want one more layer to this wicked problem. 
Not just how flooding on the surface and the superficial aquifer is saturated. 
It is that we are continuing to deplete our deep aquifer, our drinking water supply, source all over for this county. 
And part of that is we have built so much on our dryer up lens. 
Which is where the aquifer gets recharged. 
So we have realities, more rain and more impervious surface. 
And we now need new lens of element goes to deal with these. 
Our real predicament is how can we continue building, and act we retrofit what we already have. 
To facilitate the water from the surface back into the deep aquifer. 
World renowned landscape architect Kon Jan Yu  talked about sponge cities on how urban areas should be built to deal with stormwater and aquifer recharge. 
That notion is basically low impact development. 
As I as so many others have advocated for for so long. 
DEP new stormwater rolls over reference a few speakers back. 
Now give credit for low strategy solutions that is good news. 
Also, we do not want to discharge. 
We do not want to expedite discharge to the river for the reasons that have been explained. 
We want that water in our County, deep, below our County. 
Don't send it to the river where it will flow to the ocean. 
Environmentalist typically champion urban infill over sprawl. 
I want to pick up on something Mr. Dempsey said earlier. 
That we really need our cities to be buying up undeveloped land within city boundaries to have stormwater areas. 
During the flood events will looking for places to pump the water we need places to pump the water. 
And we also need to expedite the purpose of homes of regularly flooded. 
Is so much more insight that is totally lost. 
Thank you. 
>> CHAIR BROWER: James Clark. 
Followed by David Hill. 
Followed by Tom Rutledge. 
What good evening, commission, our council. 
Old habits are hard to break. 
Mr. Chair, thank you. 
I do not know why Occam's razor comes to pass but it does here. 
Because sometimes we totally bypass the most obvious issues we have. 
And I would like to introduce some more elements here that we think about as we move forward. 
I have to say at first glance I really for a moratorium but more neutral. 
Because I am more solution oriented than I am/and burn. 
Or I tried to be, these days. 
My term as a city commissioner I was that by watching the development. 
Development raised my city. 
For four years I raised, vegetation gone, bad development policy. 
I watched as developers in and I don't blame developers. 
Developers are kids, commissioners are the parents. 
I blame the parents because we allowed lax standards. 
We did not police ourselves. 
We lost $10 billion on one development of the walked out of our city because of a technicality. 
$10 million. 
$10 million walked out I don't blame the kids I plan the parents. 
We need to talk more. 
Doctor Anderson brought it up. 
It is one of my things about flooding that I did not hear from staff. 
And I was the impervious services. 
And our council or anyone else is interested. 
It makes it a top priority. 
January 21st from 10-12 they are just passing an ordinance that was sent alternate methods. 
To mitigate some of these impervious surfaces. 
We need to talk about that and we need to talk about building standards. 
Because we talk a lot about minimum standards. 
I think that is the slack alert, how can we shine, how can we do better? 
We should be talking about that. 
I want us to talk about that. 
I want to also dispel some myths. 
First of all, that money comes in to the school board. 
But the school board's weight and figuring out how many kids you could cram into a building is law. 
I want to talk about burn Harris. 
That is so skewed and used as weaponize to the point of nausea. 
We need to stop with that because burn Harris was initially introduced to protect ranchers and farmers. 
By the way, what happened is peculator's but up all their properties so now it protects them. 
Unintended consequences. 
I hope as we move forward here that we do have more input from staffing. 
I hope to see more neutrality from staffing as far as what is good and what is bad for us. 
Because I know that in Deltona we had to hear both sides. 
I want to hear where we should have a moratorium and why we should not and I did not hear that. 
I want developers to make money, I want to keep people employed. 
But we need to protect our residents and we do have a lot to unpack and help you over member some of these things moving forward. 
Thank you. 
>> CHAIR BROWER: Thank you. 
James Clark followed by David Hill followed by Thomas Rutledge. 
Pardon me? 
James Clark. 
That is not you. 
James Clark is no longer here, David Hill, Thomas Rutledge. 
Followed by Tammy Wozniak. 
>>  Hello, David Hill of Miller Rd. Orange city, District 1, and incorporated County. 
Thank you for letting me talk today. 
I support moratorium. 
I do not think it will take you a year I think you know what the problems are I think you're working on solutions. 
And you can do this quicker than a house can start and be finished. 
I support that. 
I also want to let you know today of that the St. John's water management board meeting. 
There staff gave a presentation on my community and the solutions. 
And the things they are doing. 
The board was very interested. 
They were asking for state funding, they were asking questions. 
I think – they said they are ready, willing, and wanting to work with the County or the cities to solve this problem. 
I got the impression they were very eager to help. 
Now I think is a good time to get the city of, the city of Orange County and the County and there. 
Come up with a solution. 
I think they are prepared to present it. 
I just want to say, I am a salesman. 
I get the sense from the questions from the board which they have never asked questions of us, or the staff. 
That they are eager to help. 
I think now is the time to get with St. John's, put a solution together and make it happen. 
Thank you for your time. 
>> CHAIR BROWER: Good news. 
Thomas Rutledge. 
Followed I Tammy Wozniak followed by Donna but none. 
>>  Good evening my name is Thomas Rutledge, District 2, and a corporate County. 
Thank you for your service to our County. 
You heard about the human cost to the flooding. 
I am a little bit concerned about the staff function, you do not run the County the staff does. 
So over the years, since this is the hottest topic on the planet, you should have been brought solutions to flooding for years. 
This should have been at the top of the list for years. 
And something tells me that is not been happening. 
I do not know why. 
But they run it you all make the policy based on the ideas that come before you. 
There is a policy decision. Anyway, I would ask you to your best maybe see what is going on with that. 
What we learned from the staff tonight is we have inadequate standards. 
That we get a certain amount of rainfall and it is a lot more than that. 
That is the new normal that is what the standard has to be. 
We can see there has been at least one municipality that is decided to adopt that standard. 
That is a good idea. 
But that is the new normal we can say the standard is but that is not working. 
One thing one thing about a moratorium that will fast track the best minds in the County to get this going. 
If you moratorium that will make everything move the speed of light the best minds will come together. 
You will find the solution, you could do the carveouts, the carveouts will happen fast. 
You will be able to still do things. 
But the real problems will be addressed and be addressed quickly. 
And hopefully with minimal impact to your community. 
We talked about the burnt Harris we were sued by a developer. 
We had a moratorium before my time there that lasted three years. 
For waterfront development. 
And we won and we won big. 
We won the takings, we won were chairs if you do it right you don't have to worry about that. 
That is fine. 
Let's talk about the political side of this. 
We are a new of citizen involvement in Volusia County. 
In the last by citizen activism this is only the beginning. 
There will be no more special interest candidates selected by the elite and fill-in the Council sees, those days are gone. 
We will continue to follow the money and vote accordingly. 
And I am telling you, we have an army behind us, this is only the beginning. 
I would ask you to support this moratorium to fast-track the solution. 
Because that is what we are talking about is fast tracking solution. 
And that only comes with economic pain, thank you. 
>>  Tammy Wozniak. 
Donna Pepin.
 And Julie Holt. 
>>  Good evening, I have never done this before so please bear with me on this. 
My name is Tammy Wozniak I live in Volusia County 62 years. 
We purchased our home 21 years ago and yes, it is a 60 year-old home that has never flooded before. 
Since 2017 the same year the wetlands from Margaritaville were being developed on. 
Our home flooded with 6-12 inches of brackish sewer water. 
And then again three more times in the last few years. 
If you research the past four hurricanes you realize each drum and a maximum sustained wind speed equivalent to that of a tropical storm. 
With only a couple of wind gust speaking Category 1 speeds went over Volusia County. 
With each storm the storm waters took longer and longer to receive and the amount of sewer leakage is getting worse. 
God for bid an actual Category 1 his our area with the full speed. 
It is very obvious that decimation of our areas wetlands is bringing infill with over developing is the main cause of flooding in Volusia County. 
I understand many developers and construction workers are against this moratorium. 
But honestly, too many residents have lost absolutely everything do to these flooding events. 
Their homes, their life investments have lost value due to flooding. 
Entry defense someone reputable to repair our flooded homes is extremely difficult. 
Leaving many residents displaced are living in bold and bacterial invested homes without any other options. 
Some residents are using their life savings or going into debt to repair their homes. 
Only to flood again unless drastic measures are taken to prevent flooding atrocities from reoccurring. 
Our family has been displaced from living in our home four times due to flooding. 
And most recently we've been living in an RV on a driveway over three months awaiting an F IP insurance plan that is yet to be paid for as to even to start to begin preparing our home. 
I implore – we have only lived in our home nine months after repairing it from the 2022 floods. 
I implore each of you in this council to stand up for the many families whose lives have been horribly and reversibly impacted by overdevelopment. 
Please, approve this moratorium told further development while practices are put into place to prevent future flooding of homes in Volusia County. 
I agree with Mr. Rutledge. 
We do need to fast-track this and the only way to do that is with the moratorium. 
Night appreciate you for bringing this up and everyone else who has come forward to say things about it. 
Thank you. 
>> CHAIR BROWER: Thank you. 
Donna. 
Donna Pepin, Gina Holt, and Gina Holt.
I am in district 1 and the County over by Lake Terrace. 
The other thing that I wanted to bring up, which you will be hearing a lot more about in the future, I was at the Deltona meeting because I knew they would be speaking about the PFAS which is a forever chemicals. 
DelanHave been tested and we are very high. 
This will be and now all cities will have to be tested. 
And the only thing – the main thing that takes them out is osmosis which would be a huge expense for the city. 
And when you have new development we still are using fertilizer on the lawns. 
We are still adding chemicals to the water that we drink. 
And then there is the problem of the aquifer as Wendy Anderson brought up. 
Are we going to deplete the water? 
I can remember, I have been here 45 years. 
Right in this area in Volusia County. 
And I can remember a point where we are talking about saltwater intrusion. 
Maybe in the eighties or the nineties. 
But people were very worried about what are we going to do? 
With saltwater intrusion are we going to make water from the ocean? 
So all of these problems need to be looked at. 
I expect you need a six-month moratorium look at them all and see where you will take people. 
The young people were here the 16 and 17-year-old. 
What is their future? 
>> CHAIR BROWER: Thank you. 
Gina hold followed by can Goldberg followed by James Madden. 
What good evening I am Gina will I live in unincorporated Edgewater. 
I am a Floridian a 50 year resident of Volusia County and I don't have anything to say because Wendy Anderson stole all my points. 
One think that I am fascinated by the discussion in the staff presentations. 
I learned a lot tonight. 
One thing I did not hear discussed in any way without these elevated developments displace the water that may have stood there for centuries. 
That is not something I have heard any engineer address in their calculations. 
So you take 5 acres, you scrape it, you fill it with clay that does not percolate. 
You cover it with impervious surfaces. 
There is no way for the water to be there anymore. 
And if you displace that Waterford is ago? 
It goes to the neighbors. 
I would like an answer to that, how does the displacement of water calculate in any of these engineers? 
Also, for years I was a residential appraiser. 
I note that developments church a whole lot of money for those conservation views and those Lake views. 
They charge extra money they don't want those retention ponds to go dry. 
They want to keep them full. 
If they are full how could they possibly hold all the water falls from the sky that is in this calculation. 
It just doesn't work in my mind. 
So, more impervious surfaces, more displacement of the water, more irresponsible development. 
If not a moratorium, what then? 
You have always have the power to say no. 
Make these developers shrink their development. 
I am reading in the mail that 8000 houses so developer wants to build that is insane. 
I would hope that this County would never permit anything like that. 
But why did these developments have to be so big? 
If they were not so big they would ruin so much land and lots of many neighbors. 
There is a lot of ways you could control and manage development without a moratorium. 
That you have failed to do that. 
And at this point I think all the moratorium will do is process to give you time to catch up and I am in favor of that. 
And thank you for your hard work. 
>> CHAIR BROWER: Thank you. 
Can Goldberg, James Mathur, Patrick Fisher. 
>>  Can Goldberg, Deland, Florida, district 1. 
DonIs my councilmember, where did he go? 
>> CHAIR BROWER: Every now and then we need a bathroom. 
Quick to listen, since the last meeting I want to thank you staff for using that time wisely. 
I think rested a really good job. 
And thank you all for maintaining the courtroom throughout this proceeding on the dais here. 
I am a builder and a contractor. 
I have been here 20 years I'm a small businessman. 
And I think all the builders who were here, all the contractors that are here are all small businessmen. 
I don't see any major DR Horton development representatives here. 
I came up in the business building home for big and medium-sized homes. 
I worked on big developments celebration for almost 3 years I was appear for two. 
With Saint Djokovic I worked, Bob he was gone now. 
I been here on my own nearly 15 years. 
Built maybe 1-3 custom homes a year I do a lot of commercial renovations, things like that. 
Nobody in this industry that is here pills homes and businesses for people wanting them to flood. 
And nobody here is greedy. 
Nobody here – everybody here is trying to make a living not a killing. 
We are in the business of hopes and dreams, folks. 
That is what we do for our clients. 
And in particular the American dream of homeownership. 
And with that the security and stability that brings to our fellow human creatures in our communities. 
Now we live in a place people are trying to move to in a big way. 
That is a lot better than living somewhere where everybody is trying to leave. 
The economy is good here and it is growing. 
Let's keep it that way. 
But we can and we will do better, I am confident of that. 
It is possible to both manage stormwater and provide for more housing opportunities for Fallujah residents. 
It is complicated, it is challenging, it requires thoughtful solutions. 
Moratorium is not a thoughtful solution. 
And it would hurt our economy in very bad ways. 
It will unleash chaos. 
We all have contracts with customers that have time limits. 
Best people in the business are right here before you, let's work together. 
>> CHAIR BROWER: Thank you. 
James Mather, Patrick Fisher, Roger Bullard. 
>>  Good evening, council, James made their continental, Florida. 
Thank you for being here tonight. 
I don't envy your position one bit. 
1000 jobs at the County, but at the same time constituents who have gone through a catastrophic event a couple times in the past few years. 
I don't envy your decision I don't envy what you're going through right now. 
Bodybuilding moratorium benefits nobody. 
Those who flooded last fall will still flooded we don't build any more homes in the next year. 
People are going to lose their jobs, and it will further increase home prices because it will limit the amount of homes on the market. 
It is an overall loss for the County and the county. 
Your workforce will be forced to go somewhere else. 
You will lose a workforce if you put a moratorium in the next year, not a good situation. 
Each home you're trying to say, we want for every home try to save. 
Affect other people's lives because of job losses. 
It is a real situation. 
It is not an easy choice and I hate you have to make that choice. 
You know, every new home permit that is submitted requires the owner to sign a notarized affidavit that understands their responsibility, or they are responsible for the waters they are displacing in building that home. 
They have to do that either by retaining their own water, or they have to do it by directing that water to a storm system. 
The builders as well as abilities, is a homeowner's responsibility to make sure that gets done. 
That is scrutinized the County and something in place and done for every new homebuilder of the county. 
Every new home that is built is built several feet higher than the homes that we are working through the were built 50, 60 years ago because things change over the course of the last 40-50 years. 
FEMA maps are updated every 10 plus years because things are changing. 
Definitely have to change, solutions have to come into place. 
But moratorium and putting people out of work is not going to fix the situation. 
And it is not going to stop safe homes from flooded to being flooded again. 
Don't add albums and disrupt or lives. 
>> CHAIR BROWER: Patrick Fisher, Robert Bullard and Soli Stewart. 
>>  Thank you but opportunity to speak tonight-the city of does water. 
Supporting a moratorium has reached a critical point. 
Of already seen the results of unchecked development. 
These are real risk, impacting real families and homes. 
It is true chapter 50 of the County code sets clear storm water management standards. 
But the standards don't appear to be enforced consistently. 
Leading directly to flooding crisis we face today. 
The fact that flooding continues to worsen percent compliance has neither been achieved nor enforced. 
And/or the minimum standards are inadequate. 
This council has the authority and responsibility to act. 
Chairman Broward has proposed a rural boundary now Isabel and moratorium. 
Both steps in the right direction. 
But those efforts not received the necessary support. 
Nevertheless, you must take action. 
Strengthen the comp plan update the minimum standards. 
I think billing pills should be limited preferably been. 
There more sustainable such as construction. 
Hold developers accountable to hold higher standards. 
And, require developers to contribute more toward flood mitigation and infrastructure improvements through impact fees. 
Develop and must pay for itself taxpayer should not bear this burden. 
Implement stronger in our mental ordinances to protect our wetlands and floodplains. 
These natural features are our best defense against flooding and preserving them is essential long term. 
Fourth, expand land to protect undeveloped areas. 
In flood prone zones. 
We don't need programs to elevate, rebuild, or purchase our homes. 
Florida law allows these actions. 
Counties have broad home room authority to protect public health, safety and welfare. 
Property rights cannot come at the expense of the welfare of existing residents. 
Responsible development is necessary. 
It is our homes, families, and safety on the line. 
Strengthen regulations, enforce compliance, and implement policies that will leave our homes underwater every time it rains. 
Not to stop growth but a cause to ensure future growth is sustainable and responsible. 
Thank you. 
>> CHAIR BROWER: Is Roger Bullard not here? 
Roger Bullard? 
Kelly Stewart, followed by Paula Ackerson. 
>>  Councilman, thank you for your time tonight. 
And I don't envy your position at all. 
My name is Shelley Stewart I am in district 3. 
I am not a builder I run a title agency in town. 
And all residential homes as well as builder closing. 
I am here, I want to say I do every day see the impact of buying a home. 
And what homeownership makes to people and their families. 
So I am here in favor of a solution and not a moratorium. 
And I just want to say before I get started. 
Because I am hearing a lot of this anti-builder and I development. 
What I am not hearing about apartment complexes. 
There are more people in capital square footage but in an apartment building there impacting our rose and all of that. 
I don't hear anything about apartments. 
Tried to make that point. 
Michael today is really but the light and focus on the financial impact the moratorium has on the county. 
The national Association of homebuilders conducted a study on the natural area impact of homebuilding in Volusia County on income, jobs. 
Excuse me, which can be provided. 
Not going to focus on the impact be sent all of that. 
I am going to focus more on the subject on the general revenue to the County and the city but to that of the jobs and wages that would be lost in the county. 
The study was broken down into three phases. 
Phase 1 is just the initial jobs that were graded by event construction. 
Phase 2 was a ripple effect the prophets for local area residents and earnings on new construction. 
Just a year after construction. 
In the third phase was subsequent years following to construction. 
The survey is based on 100 homes. 
Again, taking out the government side, the local income that would be lost is $21 billion in the first year. 
Local business owners, 7 million. 
Local wages and salaries, 14 millions, and job lost. 
Phase 2 local impact 10 million, local business owners income 2.3 million, local wages lost 8 million. 
Implementing – I only have 30 seconds left. 
So I just wanted you to focus more on the jobs lost, we cannot afford to lose these jobs in this county had would be financial devastation to Fallujah County. 
It would cause mortgage foreclosure, loss of homes and I have 18 seconds left. 
I want to say thank you for your time. 
>> CHAIR BROWER: Thank you. 
Paula Ackerson, followed by Catherine Pente followed by Catherine Levinson. 
>>  Good evening. 
We are getting to the end, can you hear me? 
Works we can hear you now. 
>>  I want to talk to you guys about seeing this council have more power over the cities. 
And the reason I want to see that happen is my kids have lost their home loss they live in Port Orange and near Spruce Creek. 
They had issues starting – I will just go up start at 2004. 
In 2004 Spruce Creek flooded and the name of the division I will talk about is the was. 
In 2006 finally FEMA and the city agreed to put down eight homes. 
They destroyed eight homes all over that subdivision. 
And those empty lots still sit there empty because they did not plan how they would use the landfill by and for those homes. 
So, fast-forward to 22. 
They did nothing to drain the jingles they have had the problem this whole time. 
So, again, subdivision failed and it flooded. 
So, let's go to 24. 
– Let's jump back in 22 they decided to put in their budget more homes on Spruce Creek and 25, three years out. 
24 comes along and it floods again. 
They did not even have the sense to fix the type of events they already had because they were busted. 
Again, it has flooded. 
If we were to have another storm, this year, both kids will lose their homes again. 
So I would really like to see this council. 
I don't know, can you change or get more power to force the bad players, which is the city of Port Orange to do what they need to do to fix the flooding issues? 
Which impacted a lot of people down there. 
Thank you. 
>> CHAIR BROWER: Thank you. 
Catherine Pante followed by Catherine Levinson followed by John Dixon.   I'm here in support of a moratorium public safety and public health. 
And they need a moratorium during hurricane Ian responded to over 1000 calls for high water rescues. 
When recent storms built into hundred high water rescues. 
A total of five pollution residents drowned during hurricane Ian. 
Residents are flooding during typical range of the most at risk and vulnerable population have flooding events have become more dangerous the more we build. 
The elderly,  disabled and children, no elected official in our County or the 16 cities he did that to pause development and have real solutions for flooding, in fact the opposite. 
It continued with the green light from our leaders to the detriment of public health. 
The inaction of public leaders to include both the city and County staff allows dereliction in the duty of the best interest of public safety. 
To limit the image properties during storm. 
You responsible overdevelopment, you allowed well is to be paved over grading man-made flooding we now experience pickle building a floodplain to quit the counties tax base is great at the existence of residents. 
Residents have homes they cannot live in, rent and have to pay property tax on. 
This is driving people into bankruptcy and homelessness. 
D cardsLocal organization and develop some land-use internees want to offer solutions for flooding in lieu of a moratorium. 
One is to institute a sales tax, as well as special assessments. 
That is rich, taxi residents more to fix the problems they graded with the help of our elected officials. 
Last night at a community meeting held by district for health minute resident asked how long it would take for the county to implement solutions. 
They replied realistically three years. 
Government moves slow. 
Alice's was an honest reply. 
This as have a moratorium now. 
We can continue building at mark. 
     >> DON DEMPSEY: More years one government drags its feet developing grades more dangerous flash flood conditions. 
Currently, we are number one in the state and seven snake County for flood risk. 
It does not make pollution a place to put down roots or an incentive little. 
Of illegal basement for moratorium under 202 and 206 as well as Florida State statute 262. 
Residents do not delay, deny, as Santiago, Roberts and Reinhardt. 
We do not have time for selling or inaction our lives mean more than the millions of revenue developers will make. 
Time for Volusia County to put residents first by crating a safe and vibrant community. 
Where do we start? 
By saving and not paving what is left of our green spaces pickle every moment are making decisions between right action and wrong action. 
We are tax with a man-made world invest in property rights are the morally responsible thing and protecting the lives of Volusia County residents. 
Thank you. 
[APPLAUSE]. 
>> CHAIR BROWER: Catherine Levinson followed by Doug Wenzel, followed by Suzanne Schier. Was I do not know how to follow that, that was so quick. 
Anyway Catherine Levinson I am an unincorporated Volusia outside of Orange city. 
They claim as, no they don't, they disavow us climb them on our address but they say we do not allow us so they don't help us at all. 
Thank you to you I am district one with you. 
I really appreciate that. 
Today I also was that the St. John water management meeting. 
And they are very interested in helping us. 
They will send you letters and they want to stop what is going on. 
At least that will stop our flooding. 
My home was built in 2016. 
So, it is not an old home, it is brand-new. 
I don't know what you think it has to be an old home to flood because that is not true. 
Do thousand 18, and it is a beautiful home. 
I don't want to lose it, I don't. 
The thing is we have got to work together. 
And it takes going down, and I mean slowing down six months at least. 
Stopping the building, figuring out what is the rules, what rules should we have, what do we got to do to stop the flooding, stop this craziness. 
I don't care about people moving in, that is great I would like to people moving in and more businesses and all that, that is great. 
But we have to fix our problem now. 
You cannot hemorrhage and then tried to keep going and still bleed out and die. 
You have got to actually stop the bleeding but there's only one way to do that and that is to pause, make some rules, fix what is going on, figure what the problem is and start all over. 
Because we can do that, we can do that as a group, we can all do it together, I know we can so please think about that. 
Thank you. 
>> CHAIR BROWER: Thank you for your comments. 
Doug Wenzel, Suzanne Schreiber, and Joy Brimley. 
What's good morning. 
Not yet but it is close, Doug Wenzel by the sea. 
I want to say the flooding situation is terrible on the builders do have empathy for what people are going through with the water. 
It is devastating for the affected. 
And solutions are absolutely necessary. 
However, the proposed moratorium unfairly targets a vital industry, homebuilding. 
Everyone lives and one. 
It contributes significantly to our economy and community development. 
Let's not forget this is America. 
Property rights are fundamental, I wish the attorney was here. 
But the goal is to stop homebuilding in certain areas than the solution is clear. 
Purchased the land and preserve it. 
The issue is not new construction, it is not. 
It is the unprecedented amount of rainfall. 
And more importantly, the neglect of our stormwater infrastructure over the years. 
Clogged canals and drainage ditches show years of insufficient maintenance. 
Is it the city, the County, the state, who is responsible? 
I can see that finger-pointing now. 
By the way, I thought stopped it excellent job presenting. 
People who did not know anything about construction and development should have learned a lot about everything is processed. 
Flooding issues won't be solved by halting homebuilding. 
They will be solved by addressing the root causes and him limiting long-term infrastructure solutions. 
The people affected by the floods want communication. 
And the thing, if you go to your website. 
It is not user-friendly. 
I would think, if you put a little window that says flooding update on the front page of your website. 
That update it with information that would be incredible. 
People are in the dark they don't think anything is being done. 
I want to meeting last night with Mr. Kent. 
Talked about the 108 million already allocated to mitigate flooding. 
And people kept turning and looking at each other saying what? 
They did not know that. 
And that came from the transformed 26 funds three eight six farming funds. 
I had to search to see what was happening with the flooding. 
Have to make a central location. 
It would be great if people could put in better emails. 
And she would see them, force-feed them some information. 
Okay? 
In conclusion, I urge you to reconsider the moratorium focus on collaboration, maintenance, and infrastructure temperaments instead of targeting an industry that always has been a cornerstone of Volusia County. 
Thank you. 
>> CHAIR BROWER: Suzanne Schreiber, Joy Brimley. 
>>  Joe Bromley asked to be removed. 
>>  Peggy Abbott who I think has also left. 
Go ahead, Suzanne Schreiber. 
>>  Suzanne Schreiber Volusia, Ormond Beach. 
What is the County short and long-term and what is the plan? 
Let victims of have time for debate, studies, new committees in future years of gridlock. 
Near heavy rain conflict residence again today. 
Here is our list of solutions. 
Volusia County is lacking strong water solution. 
Utilize Volusia on land for stormwater. 
Not Volusia forever line. 
I referred to the other land the county owns. 
And inventory to utilize it for stormwater. 
Stop allowing mitigation banking. 
Paying to fill in wetlands never were, let's respect the wetlands and stop building on them. 
Have the County lobbyist lobby for funding to purchase land for stormwater storage. 
Listening to Ben Bartlett there is nowhere to pump the water so free up areas and this has funding for bridges and plan. 
By out presence willing to sell. 
Turned their property into stormwater storage. 
Change the comprehensive plan to require low impact development for the keyword, require. 
How can Volusia County teach lid in 2018 and we are now in 2025 with nothing required? 
This is slow even by government bureaucracy standards. 
That this council is accustomed to. 
Building higher than the neighborhoods then flooding that is unacceptable. 
Require and enforce all stormwater to be retained by the landowners. 
The charter review committee has its cut out for them since minimal environment of standards are not held in the city. 
Failures are all visible. 
Get the charter reviewed sooner. 
Purchased vacuum trucks and other equipment needed for preparing, neglected aging systems. 
Higher skilled workforce who could be the water source to operate specialized equipment to clean out canals in areas that are difficult to reach. 
Work but the cities to help them with their canals, ditches, ponds and pipes. 
133 and was awarded to Volusia County and hurricane Milton disaster recovery funds but this will not be enough to solve the problems. 
Needs such as this mean physically conservative standards. 
They do not to us. 
Get here we are with the Norman spending needs. 
Some of the solutions and be done here tonight. 
The goal is to stop flooding Volusia was short and long-term solutions. 
Since some councilmember stated in November and December they are not voting for a moratorium. 
We are all here tonight to learn for the Council and staff plan of action is. 
Thank you for your time. 
>> CHAIR BROWER: Thank you. 
Is Peggy Abbott here? 
I thought I saw her leave. 
Carla black? 
Followed by Robert Fortner go followed by Kathy Turner and while Carla is coming down I will say if there is anybody downstairs in the rotunda there are plenty of seats appear. 
They have all gone? 
>>  Carla black unincorporated Volusia County a resident 37 years, district 1. 
State Farm is the headline in every leading platform as it dropped 1600 homeowners in Pacific Palisades. 
Not a typical location for fire risk in the summer of 2023. 
State Farm themed climate change the greater intensity and greater risk of property devastation caused by fire as the reason. 
It and insurance giant can have the ability to predict the Pacific Palisades buyer a little over a year in advance of it becoming reality, and take action to protect his interest, then there is every reason for our citizens and local elected representatives to use the same type of data to protect our residents interest, properties and way of life. 
Why am I speaking about Pacific Palisades? 
Does Florida's insurance giant did the exact same thing. 
They reviewed the data regarding Florida's increased risk of negative impact people climate change. 
The greater risk and intensity of hurricanes and named storms part of the increased risk of flooding and locations that is not flooded previously. 
The likelihood of locations that would succumb to climate disaster and many of them dropped out of our state. 
Based on logistics or doubled and tripled their rates. 
Volusia County is the most flood prone county in the state of Florida. 
Insurers were well aware of this before it became a headline and they have been protecting their interest. 
It is business since they took action and to what many considered extreme measures to feel secure. 
By the same token our residents deserve actions to secure their interest. 
And it makes business sense to preserve the beauty, people come around the world they come from around the world to see the beauty here in Volusia County to enjoy it. 
Considering there is data telling insurers we are at great risk I'm asking you for a building moratorium to take the time to take measures to stop the development over watershed for low impact development plans and upgrade our stormwater management. 
Disruptive problems by Phil and Bill has been documented since 2019. 
I would prefer taxes paid to protect residents interest in for another sent toward building will develop an over watersheds that is sending our beautiful County into a cycle of being flooded out, uninsured, and undesirable. 
I hate to see this happen on this council's watch. 
Appreciate everyone of you especially a shame considering chair Brower preservation ever since long hard preservation efforts, thank you for listening. 
Was what is your name? 
Speaking for hot Rod? 
>>  Were devastated by the floods – I am sorry. 
Good evening council. 
Quickly put the mic a little closer? 
Tilted up. 
Was there at 1200 Orange Deland unincorporated county surrounded by city and his property. 
We have heard many of our concerns addressed which is very welcome. 
We have heard about the jurisdiction for police action, enforcement and the like. 
We have heard models and studies. 
Any residents need immediate action taken. 
That is an issue after hearing everything tonight. 
It sounds like we are on the right path but flood issues that currently affect our properties and help, we desperately need to get back to normal life. 
Those who have definable engineering issues that could be addressed. 
This council is to push for action and residents that are hurting need to get back. 
These are all definable issues. 
And to push forward on the sections think back. 
Books thank you. 
>>  Kathy Turner, Lori Gillooly, David Singleton. 
We have at least one of those here. 
Argue Kathy or Lauren? 
I don't see Kathy coming forward so go ahead. 
>>  Good evening. 
Thank you very much for the opportunity to speak. 
Appreciate all of you in your service. 
My name is Lori Gillooly actually live in the city of Daytona Beach. 
And very happy to have Councilman Reinhardt as our representative. 
I am here tonight to represent habitat for humanity for greater Volusia County. 
And here with my colleague director of operation. 
She also handles all of our construction activity in these. 
It is to give affordable homeownership's we are the general contractor and bank that gives low interest to every homeowner we work with. 
In Fallujah County we have built with a 190 homes working with 195 families. 
And 140 children have a safe, decent quality built home they can afford. 
We are also in the process of development of legacy was. 
A 40 unit development they you approved after a very serious and complex conversations with you and the County staff. 
You do have a number of very complex and stringent regulations in place and we do in our experience have had to comply with all of them for each infill building. 
With all the municipalities who work with and certainly with this development. 
However, we are certainly mindful and empathetic with every member of of the community is headed flooding issues there been horrendous issues I know personally have. 
We understand the severity of that. 
Habitat for Humanity worked with earlier homeowners whose homes were built and we did mitigation in recent years. 
We do support and encourage everything and anything you can do, we encouraging collaboration between the faith organization has been working closely with you as well we support that. 
But we do not believe that the answer is a total moratorium. 
The homeowners families we serve represent many essential workers in this community. 
And we ask you to consider them in this decision. 
We all know how much affordable housing we need in this community and a moratorium which at that down. 
We have great momentum we are working hard to build that we have five houses under construction and the development infrastructure underway. 
Please consider all of your essential workers and those who need more affordable housing in this community when you consider this moratorium. 
Thank you so much. 
>>  Gary Singleton. 
Gary is still here. 
Carmen Rosa Monda he has left the presence. 
Edward Kitchener. 
>>  Thank you for hearing is out and back from the information I live in Troy can still. 
Right across from the newly built Avalon Park. 
And in 22 I took my video camera, by phone across the road from where I live. 
But a little video of Lake Avalon as I call it go because there's not a bit of ground you can see there. 
That I checked it a couple times we had thunderstorms last summer. 
Know how they will build on that property I have no idea. 
If any of you walk on it is a big giant wetland. 
After the last hurricane I went and videos and put it online. 
I asked him to get in his car it is ridiculous. 
And I don't think we need that long of a deal. 
Listening to everybody hear it sounds like Neville the studies in place just need the direction to do it and I respect all of you you are all smart. 
Could not want better for community there's not a single one who does not want that. 
Maybe a three month moratorium. 
Get these guys the faster you do it and that the moratorium. 
Our plan will attack all of this. 
Is unlike all the information their spearhead it and think back everybody. 
They did not have the meeting in December, the meeting in January is all been shouldered away. 
As I said Volusia the count number seven in the nation. 
We have the people thank you. 
>>  Thank you. 
>>  David Smith followed by Mark. 
>>  Thank you council. 
I am Dave Smith. 
Been in Volusia County 52 years. 
We are in the lands we are in wetlands. 
Volusia County has not only the statewide standings. 
Due to the likelihood of flooding but national ranking too. 
Our aging and nonfunctioning infrastructure in the cities and subdivisions. 
The canals that go through that are not managed by SJWMD are our main problems. 
The tidal influence has been a big deal, region for the last few hurricanes. 
And statistical rainfall increases established and shown tonight. 
The clearcutting and paving are known contributors to flooding. 
I am concerned hearing from them we are still using 1950 figures to estimate today's expectations. 
It almost sounds like government can't care enough to evolve with the severe weather pattern changes. 
They are identifying flooding issues and discussing the issues further that SJWMD,  the direct out discussions. 
Reflection of one is partnership between Volusia County and SJWMD will come to some fruition of action. 
My neighbors and I would like to see this council choose to implement a moratorium as legally allowed. 
And keep it as long as it takes. 
For chapter 72, chapter 50, changes to be implemented whatever it takes. 
As long as it takes. 
Lastly, creation of a new entity. 
Can we not call it a star. 
Rex Karen Watts. 
Joe Blueback.
 Quick think back for being here listening to all of us. 
Whether you read the room, fall asleep, or watch emails you are here, that is good. 
There are all these people who gave away technical things. 
Just see how it goes. 
Jeff brought up the one meeting about smart development. 
When you 100 acres, don't rip out all the trees because sometimes the amount of water you see on top, the trees have it down underneath where it is supposed to be. 
If you are going to have any additional things with this moratorium, which is maybe good for a couple of months. 
Because then you will see everybody getting off their butts and see how fast is the same in November. 
Let's wait until March or April. 
What you have now, that would be a whole lot quicker that you could go through a partial moratorium, or whatever word you want to use. 
Because I know urgent's. 
But just pay attention let it see how it goes. 
You will see how fast things are moving along. 
We know that. 
And also the few farm went in, you asked and Jeff Broward said why didn't we know about this sooner? 
That is because the staff goes at their own pace. 
By the time you all hear about some of these atrocities you would have known month ago instead of six months ago from when you clocked in your slide. 
Anyway I have got to go. 
>> CHAIR BROWER: Thank you, Mark Watts followed by Joe Tulpak  followed by Deborah McShane. 
>>  Renders and council Cobb Cole and from the city commission in hobby Hill. 
But we start by saying I think all of us know people. 
Or have friends and families affected by flooding we have seen in recent events. 
And each and every one of those instances is a tragedy all of us are working daily to try and avoid a repeat. 
And try to come up with solutions. 
You will hear from some of my colleagues here in a few minutes about some of the specific things we've been working on and recommendations. 
But I am test with standing up talking about legal authority. 
And so, with regard to the proposed countywide moratorium, article 8 section 1 G of the Florida Constitution said the general scope for Volusia County. 
It is in charter County may be supremacy over municipal authority in specific instances. 
The last sentence in section 1 G provides a charter shall provide which shall prevail in the event of a conflict between municipal, county and municipal ordinances. 
Is possible, therefore, for County to define the order of priority when it comes to the hierarchy of County versus municipal ordinances. 
Section 202.4 of the Volusia County charter says the County Council to enact with specific authority to enact ordinances that apply countywide. 
Including municipal jurisdictions. 
To understand the scope of the 30 granted by section 202.4 review of the specific language is required. 
First, the County 30 is not limited. 
In order to exercise the authority to next Anderson countywide application consideration of the advice and comment of various Minas abilities is required. 
Let's see. 
Second, the 30 granted by the County charter speaks to the authority to enact standards, procedures, requirements and regulations that relate to specific enumerated areas of regulatory authority. 
There are several examples countywide of countywide standards. 
And we talked about those this evening. 
What that authority does not empower the County to do is usurp municipal County home rule. 
Municipal home rule is under 166.01 subsection 3. 
Recognizes that municipalities have all authority that is not subject to preemption by the County pursuant to the County charter adopted under section 1 G of the Constitution. 
In essence, rather than read the rest of what I said earlier today. 
You have authority within the unincorporated. 
To regulate, to impose moratorium, do all of those things. 
Your charter does not extend that authority. 
I think that is consistent with the advice he received from your County attorney. 
Think that is consistent with both the constitutional charter and statutory regulations we all have to adhere to. 
>>  Joe Dlubac,  David McShane, Lisa Chaucer, no Joe? 
No Deborah, no Lisa. 
Kelly Corantino,  we have one that is here. 
Winner, winner. 
Followed by Jessica Gow are you still here? 
What she is here. 
>>  Good evening, my name is Kelly Coranino  of the Association for responsible development known VBAR.
 As first I would like to thank our County Council members and staff for organizing this meeting tonight. 
Holding a session temperature willingness to listen to us and acknowledge the need for better system in place. 
Here's a brief overview of DVAR as a non-partisan we facilitate open discussions, provides educational resources, and sources a bridge between municipalities, industry and residents. 
Members consist of environmentalists, engineers, land use and many other industries. 
For over 40 years have collaborated with local municipalities. 
Sorry, local municipalities on a variety of ordinances including topics such as stormwater regulation, affordable housing, low effective element, and others. 
I'm asking everyone to keep an open mind tonight and focus on working together to find alternative solutions. 
And virtually, flooding issues don't have a single catalyst or a one-size-fits-all solution. 
The technical review committee has formulated strategies for flood mitigation. 
We would like to share them again this evening. 
While the strategies have been emailed to all Council members would like to also share them with everyone here tonight. 
This discussion involves many intricate components pico and I would like to introduce my team of experts who I should know are all volunteers. 
They will provide technical insights to help alleviate the challenges that we are facing. 
The following members will be speaking after me our first, Jessica gal who practices environmental land use and zoning law. 
The second, Chris Rowley, a professional engineer. 
And the third, Mallory Tatum, an environmental scientist. 
I am confident that our alternative approaches to protect our residents and safeguard our homes from flooding. 
If you're interested in viewing our mitigation strategies you can email me kelli@responsibledevelopment.com.
 At let's do this in a responsible way. 
>> CHAIR BROWER: Jessica Gow,  followed by Rhonda Hobbs followed by José Rivera. 
>>  Good evening, Kelso, Jessica Gow,  first I want to say a few appreciate I sent very long emails. 
The suggestions are meant to be the beginning of the collaborative discussion in both policy and regulatory changes to the extent that this council did is. 
Acknowledge that proactive changes to we believe regular right and policy changes exist that will allow the changes to address existing flooding conditions and create standards for more protective development. 
And best practices in the future. 
There were 10 because the infographics. 
I will hit on three of them. 
The first, and I think my favorite, is the establishment of a collaborative quarterly meeting with the County and governments and other agencies. 
The deity. 
Critical quote bonus of this have stuff level reviews. 
And the other body of officials. 
From our discussions we have had for the community it seems like we already have a group at staff level of local mitigation strategy group. 
That is currently test with allocating funding and reactive measures after natural disasters. 
But we think it can be a tool to be proactive in identifying policy and measures. 
We also believe the elected official Roundtable recently discussed and put together they flooding subcommittee. 
That I think will fill in that elected official role. 
The idea there is to create a structure that mimics both policy level a technical advisory committee could identify funding sources and grants. 
And create one voice to speak to our state and roll legislators on priorities. 
We also identified the need to create a funding mechanism to address existing infrastructure issues. 
We talk a lot about how development needs to pay for itself. 
And state law development cannot use impact fees to pay for operations or maintenance. 
Existing issues. 
Finding a way to funds that gap, we provided for their all policy decisions but the mechanics were happy to assist in any of those. 
We also talked about something that I think this County has visited a few times. 
Which is establishment of transfer development rights. 
How we protect environmentally sensitive areas, some agricultural lands. 
And her development toward infrastructure to support those. 
Those are three of the tent you will hear the rest. 
We want to thank you for your consideration of the topic our hope is to find meaningful changes in approaches that will benefit the residents of Volusia County. 
As Kelly said we are volunteers but we are ready and willing to support you all in your endeavors anyway we can. 
Thank you. 
[APPLAUSE]. 
>> CHAIR BROWER: Is Rhonda Hobbs in the room? 
I think we will start going through these quickly. 
Chris Rowley? 
>>  Good evening councilmembers and check my name is Chris Rowley a professional engineer. 
I also serve as vice chair of Volusia County Association for responsible development. 
As Kelly mentioned the technical review committee work collaboratively to develop these flood mitigation strategies. 
We appreciate the opportunity to share with you tonight. 
As a professional who study stormwater and flood management daily, I know the importance of addressing these challenges proactively. 
Regulation whether new or enhanced is not something we shy away from. 
It is a necessary tool. 
We all live, work, and play here we want what is best for Volusia County. 
But first I want to discuss is a possible solution is emergency stormwater easements. 
These what allows local governments to access private stormwater facilities for emergency repairs, placement or maintenance. 
The city of Orange as the same that addresses failing infrastructure during critical events. 
Property owners remain responsible for cost tracking eight balance between public safety and availability. 
The second is repetitive law standards. 
Flooding hotspots require higher design standards, increased compensatory storage, or strategic BIOS to great regional stormwater systems. 
These measures ensure resources are directed to the areas they are needed most. 
The third, is infrastructure assessment and regional maintenance program. 
The County has already gathered valuable data on stormwater data that can prioritize upgrades and clarify responsibilities. 
Many systems spent multiple jurisdictions grading inefficiencies. 
Consolidating maintenance for regional important infrastructure under a single entity. 
Or a stormwater star, can improve accountability and reduce delays. 
A roundtable that Jessica mentioned earlier could play a vital role in identifying priority projects. 
Finally, technology innovation. 
Dad address this earlier. 
There is new technology out there that ties to the weather. 
And will pre-pump down systems that are tied to the weather forecast where they will measure the amount of inches that rainfall is basically grading that storage before the storm comes. 
The system have been approved by the St. John's water management District which is not previously. 
But they just started getting approved and will great additional capacity as discussed. 
Combining the predictive modeling and automation equips us to deal with increasingly predictable weather. 
Back for your time and these increasing issues. 
We can make sure Volusia County is prepared for future incidents. 
Thank you. 
>> CHAIR BROWER: Thank you. 
However I say this will be wrong. 
Is it Joso Rivera,  you will say it when you get up here. 
>>  Josh Rivera for short I support the moratorium, if not now then when? 
Right, Volusia County is number one for flooding in the state, I think that is more than enough right there, it means we have a big problem, right? 
Today is 96 days after Milton, Miller Lake is still flooded, 7 feet in some areas. 
Water still flowing in now as we speak. 
Raise the minimum standard for building. 
You know, just like they said, we have all this land they are developing on. 
Clearly, there is water coming off of these lands and flooding the surrounding properties, right? 
Whatever formula that is currently being used is not working, we note that. 
You guys are pretty intelligent you need to happen. 
Stop letting people's private property and essentially stealing people's property and bring property values down. 
Everyone is worried about building new homes. 
If you continue to build new homes without addressing the major flooding issue we have, which is building feature on several also be flooded. 
So, you know, no one wants to work that is flooded this is our number one problem. 
So we have got to do everything we have to do. 
Thank you for your time. 
>> CHAIR BROWER: Thank you, Ronnie Haigler, Jessie Vanderlip, Jeff Aaron. 
>> CHAIR BROWER: Jessie Vanderlip, Ronnie Haigler, Jeff Sujanovich.
 >>  Jeff Aaron asked to be removed. 
>> CHAIR BROWER: Followed by Rilo Acker,  followed by Elizabeth Pompley.
 >>  How do I show my slides? 
>>  You don't unless you had given to the clerk about 24 hours ago. 
Sorry, they had to be checked for viruses. 
>>  That is okay, you can tell it. 
>>  My name is Jat Sajovanich, I spoke in November. 
This time I was able to bring my mom. 
So, the story was our house flooded, she is like 80 years old. 
I want to remind the Council of the people who have their homes flooded. 
We are here to just tilt the Council of the building moratorium. 
There a lot of people in the community that suffered when their homes were flooded. 
They lost a lot of stuff, including my mom here. 
I found a document from which the Florida Department of environmental protection they wrote. 
They wrote in the nineties, I found it then they gave some flooding guidelines. 
What you have to do in order to prepare for floods. 
They said it is much easier and much less expensive to prevent stormwater through proper planning than to restore water bodies and rebuild flooding properties. 
I just want to read that statement for everyone who is here so we can as a community try to take those kinds of actions. 
And hopefully reduce cost of flooding in the future. 
That is all I have. 
Thank you. 
>>  Thank you. 
>> Milo Racco,  I see movement. 
Eric and John – just a minute. 
>>  Good evening, council, my name is Milo Racco Griffen  I'm a senior and a land management technician for Brevard County. 
Whether we like it or not we are inexplicably an independent on our earth. 
With each action we take we interact with nature. 
Often leaving the environmental actions as an afterthought. 
Whatever we do to the environment we do also to ourselves. 
If we destroy the earth going to Mars will not save us. 
There is no second place and no plan B. 
Our GDP is not the most important thing as take. 
For our futures are on the line the decisions made today will decide the kind of world with the behind for our futures. 
So, it is imperative the future results to place a moratorium on development so there's ample time to consider the of limitations, for the development will have on flooding, water quality, and availability. 
Biodiversity, habitat fragmentation and quality of life. 
When you give developers permission to get down and pave over our force you are exacerbating the severity of flooding events. 
Putting human lives at risk and causing billions of dollars in property damage. 
Hurricane Milton alone cost $267 billion in damage to structures and Volusia largely due to flooding. 
Furthermore the increase stormwater runoff caused by the inaction of our government to limit expansion carries pollutants into the waterways and aquifers. 
These contaminants diminish our water quality lead to toxic algae bloom such as red tides and steep Greek that are vital to the health. 
The has caused starvation's. 
Starvation remains the leading cause of vanity term mortality on Florida's Atlantic coast. 
Is a 70% line ups see grasses from 2007 has been reported. 
Obviously stormwater regulations in place are not working. 
If the Council decided to allow further construction causing developments which increase the population of Volusia County. 
Strain will be placed on the aquifer which is being depleted at an alarming right of the average person uses 100 to 150 gallons of water a day. 
I am afraid if we continue to expand at this right will just turn into another Orlando. 
Attempting to make money by prioritizing industry over environment of protection is a false build and one that will be paid many times over. 
To quote Martin Luther King Junior, from the true nature of things if you rightly consider. 
Every green tree is far more glorious than gold and silver. 
Thank you so much for your time. 
>> CHAIR BROWER: Thank you. 
>>  Are you Eric? 
>>  My name is Eric and speaking on behalf of pipeline enterprises. 
I have lived in Orlando Florida since 1998 and Volusia County the last eight years now. 
Not that long ago. 
A farmer by treatment in the contraction over 25 years in central Florida on projects, buildings, at University of Studios waterpark. 
Hospitals, custom homes. 
I did custom homes there were nine to 13 bathrooms. 
I done big projects I know how water moves. 
During that time I witnessed it eyewitness the difference between a quality home, quality structures that take times. 
It takes time and extra work. 
And just building quantity. 
Stuff that gets slapped up and a problem. 
We are here because citizens are worried about a couple of things that impact our – that impact our lives with the type of development you have. 
We are concerned about a couple major topics. 
Building without regard to surrounding properties to quickly with profit in mind is that of people paying taxes. 
Quality alike for the citizens that have lived in Volusia County have helped build a. 
We build our lives here, we love this town. 
We are always here we are not going anywhere. 
Highway 44 is to be a 1 Lane Rd. It turned into two lanes. 
What, 10 years ago, 15 years ago? 
We did not have much traffic on Highway ready for in years past. 
Now we could be backed up four hours trying to go to the beach that is saying have a lot of stuff going on. 
That actually – the traffic is a sign of too much growth too fast without concern for and for structure and safety of the citizenry already here. 
There are new subdivisions and construction projects popping up everywhere and our taxes are going up. 
Some cases 400%. 
That is crazy. 
Quality of life and Florida wildlife. 
If you were to ask any longtime Florida resident what their favorite beach to go to is it used to be new Smyrna Beach they left the fish camp, anybody been around as long time, it is now a Duncan donuts, a Starbucks and about to build a high-rise apartment cup looks. 
How do you think that will affect the roads right behind it? 
If used to be that a fisherman could keep most of what he got in the day, the regulations have changed so much and so often every time I change my fishing location and look at the SWC to see what I am allowed to take and what allowed to keep. 
And at the regulations are odd, too. 
>> CHAIR BROWER: That was three minutes. 
Time flies when you are having fun. 
>>  Thank you. 
Thank you for coming. 
John Zetrower, is Elizabeth Pampe. 
>>  I was told that she left. 
>>  Ron Pasternak followed by Chelsea Pasternak if you want to come up with him. 
And Melissa Cox. 
Works Rob Pasternak and incorporated Volusia County district 2 thank you, council and staff. 
Works pretty much we are here today because our need for stormwater infrastructure has outpaced our supply and that same infrastructure. 
And we all know action is needed. 
The frequency of the local flooding, many feel it must be our top priority and things can't just be business as usual must be reevaluated money is transferred, work groups and individuals must be reassigned if we are to find a time and solution. 
Obviously studies are a master study will be needed but it should be from the County and city pools money look at the whole of the County and the whole of the problem pick a anything less would be a repeat of past failures. 
And when we are focusing on one small area without looking at the big picture countywide. 
I think a meeting of officials should take place soon to address funding of this study. 
In the meantime maintenance work like Bruce's Creek should be used for large-scale storage sites are located and secured. 
Maybe we can focus all of that motor cross staff on flood mitigation efforts. 
Or storage area location and acquisition. 
If the area west of Halifax where I live and the town West area could be used for a motorcross using funds were not use that location for water storage and a water related recreation activities such as fishing or kayaking. 
Make it a dual purpose handling the splitting issue. 
By providing the storm even the study from 2009 indicated we would need. 
But has not been provided yet. 
And let's do it with the same enthusiasm that we saw once local staff tried to sell me and my neighborhoods on the fact we needed a motor cross track to convince us of that. 
So a public private partnership could make profits. 
Which was the boat of I heard behind the motor cross track. 
And we will have a lot more on this I will not bore you pretty much everything what we need is action. 
And I am hoping we get that. 
Thank you very much. 
>> CHAIR BROWER: Thank you. 
Jill? 
>>  Chelsea Pasternak for orange and incorporated Volusia District 2. 
First and foremost, thank you with a special workshop on this special topic. 
And hearing from all of us around the County. 
I know at least four neighbors have had to leave and I know you have been hearing for a long time as well. 
But I want to start by saying I think everyone here's wants Volusians, moratorium or not we need solutions. 
The first topic want to talk about his health. 
Having spent five days in the ICU over New Year's with respiratory failure secondary to the flu. 
Something that is come to my mind as a lifelong asthmatic is mold. 
Someone mentioned it earlier. 
As soon as 24-48 hours after flooding, mold spores can start to grow. 
I am a registered nurse but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know. 
Water has not even receded from a lot of people's houses in 24-48 hours especially during melting and Ian. 
Factor in shock, the unknown, who to call to have service, all of these things all while the clock is ticking. 
Some are still in need of repairs I have a this not have their home repaired from Ian. 
A neighbor moved back into their house after Ian two months before. 
There is a lot of people going through this. Toxicity is a serious problem, one that we should be working on a solution by not having the flooding.  I want to see more done at the local level to help with citizens in need. And not just have business as usual. My second concern and I know we've talked about this a lot and I've talked to you several times in the past is the lack of infrastructure. My husband mentioned it, the study in 2009 where solutions were proposed do not have flooding in our area and the solutions still have not been done. What I heard is we are going to order another study which is just kind of disheartening.  There's been hundreds of homes and apartments built using the same infrastructure that was insufficient before. That almost worked before existing homes before but now during the heavy flow of water from the new developments flooding, it is flooding the existing residents in the newer homes.  I'm hoping that we can make changes or pauses for for-profit development but until changes are made in the unincorporated county we also need to look at the local municipalities that I think it would be helpful and beneficial if the city and County to join forces and so pointing fingers. Those of you that have your serving cities go to the different meetings and try to work together so we can have solutions. Thank you.  
>>CHAIR: Melissa Cox, Jimmy Pelton and Jessica ... [INAUDIBLE] 
>>SPEAKER: I am Melissa Cox, I live in DeBary. We have had severe issues in flooding and in 2008 a tropical storm destroyed many homes. There were many homes that had to be demolished. This last April before the board in DeBary with many residents begged the city do not approve the plans to build 125 townhouses on the property. The board told us they would fix issues that caused the flooding in Glen Abbey in 2008 months later when Milton happened we had the same flooding issues. On Alexander Woods and Glen Abbey. To the month for the floodwaters to go down where we could use that insurance to get into our neighborhood. During Milton the storm caused the Abbey to wash out yet in one area where the water wash washed out the foundation of the house and caused a massive hole in the road. Roads are caving in from water underground. Inside our home this property has wetness on it and it has been purchased and approved by the city to build 125 townhomes which will take away the wetlands and areas of excessive water in Glen Abbey to drain. That doesn't take into account the flooding that will take place when they built the land up and waters flowed into the existing homes in Glen Abbey. In their plans they are building six townhouses and six units each in them along our property line so that will be 36 homes directly on our property line when we walked out of our house. I am extremely worried that building these new townhouses beside our house will cause flooding of our home and I'd like to have my concerns on record with the city of DeBary and Volusia County. The city of Deland has seen issues when newer housing development. A land causing flooding into the open developments. I feel other cities and development need to learn from the mistakes and do their best to prevent this from happening to our homeowners. I think the moratorium is necessary for the city to take time, figure out problems and new laws to protect the Volusia County residents and their homes.  We can't stop the hurricanes but we can stop building huge multi family developments. We also need to work on holding accountable the engineers and developers causing the flooding to existing homes. When the question was asked tonight if there is a plan in place or a timeline to hold developers accountable no one knew the answer. We need to re-create the laws and hold accountable the developers being greedy and creating quantity over quality and destroying the homes of the taxpayers in Volusia County and I also heard a lawyer, for the developer who is building the site and say the county cannot hold the city of DeBary responsible. I feel like that needs to change and I feel like we pay our tax dollars to Volusia County and I feel like the city and County need to work together. Because it is scary they can come in and build all those townhomes.
>>CHAIR: Thanks for coming in.  Jimmy Pelton.  Jessica from Port Orange.  Michael McGee.  
>>SPEAKER: Thank you Mr. Chair. And thank you gentlemen for being here. Real quickly I had a slide deck but it didn't get in in time so I will see you again at a future date. We know the difference between management leadership that's graduated from the college so he knows firsthand and would probably do a good OPD for you on some of the concepts that are with the doctrine and the military on leadership versus management. Granted we have some very brilliant gentlemen and women in city Council and County Council. Probably all the way across the board with the 67 counties and by the way there are not 16 cities, there are actually 18 cities so a quick correction for everybody's edification.  One of the things we have to understand and I'm sure the good Colonel. can appreciate this is while you have very smart people which you employ you expect them to not only be worthy of that pay but expect them to be honest of it as well and what I mean more specifically as at the end of the day they are really bureaucrats. Especially as you move higher up in that foodchain you are basically, you've already bought into the policies procedures, laws, charters, etc. that dictate how you maintain your position. Consequently are you going to do the job you are actually supposed to be doing when you are a public servant which if your income comes from taxpayer dollars then you work for that citizenry. So you really shouldn't be called a czar and like in a previous veterans bill do not refer to a former Dynasty that noticeably did not go very well and another bad industry called the Union of Soviet Socialist Republican states or Russian states, I am sorry. I'm a little bit nervous here because my time is dwindling. One thing we all stayed focused on and I've heard lots of red herrings, slippery slopes tonight. With that in mind we are focused I think too much on flooding, not to pooh-pooh that and say that's not important because it is. But when I see the concept of whether you do a moratorium or not or find some other way to use leadership, not management, it's incumbent upon you as leaders to set the groundwork for this leadership meeting. You have a very daunting task in front of you but why not see how the laws which are just that, they are not laws, they are not carved in stone. Only the 10 Commandments are what it is your responsibility to figure out do we have to appeal those and what would the Supreme Court and up, do we end up the six Supreme Court or somewhere higher?  Because the dauntingness of all the information presented tonight is just that so anyway I will see you at the end of the day.  
>>CHAIR: Elizabeth Bonds, Lisa Colon.  
>>SPEAKER: Thank you for all of you for listening to us tonight and in June I noticed an article in the news Journal that said the governor had vetoed a lot of products in Volusia County including Daytona Beach Shores, 1.3 million for the sewer main improvement investment, Deltona 1 million for sanitary tour system rehabilitation, Holly Hill $800,000 for water main improvements, $1.8 million in wastewater improvements, Oak Hill 500,000 for storm water ditch cleanup, Ormond Beach 200,000 for stormwater improvements, South Daytona $750,000 for sewer system rehabilitation pipeline. You hear all this about lawsuits that you're worried about the developers suing us but you guys don't even have a countywide program in stormwater. And I think the existing residents, this was going on before the storms, still not fixed. The governor vetoed money, we didn't have a plan what we are going to do and you keep building on this land.  Can you wallpaper it when your sewer is busted?  Why are we building this?  You guys need to end the practice of filling the watershed and wetlands. 1 acre of wetlands old 1 million gallons of storm water so I think it is very important we take that into account.  There's plenty of room for construction. We keep on hiring Orlando, just in the paper yesterday we hired an Orlando company to redo the Daytona Beach boardwalk. We fire that same company from Orlando to fix the peer and everything else in Daytona. Why do we keep hiring people from Orlando to do this construction?  We can hire our own people. There's plenty of construction and there's no incentive to revitalize the blighted neighborhoods. That's all I wanted to say, push forward, I know you are not going to but ... [applause] 
>>CHAIR: Lisa Colon.  Steve Hanzano.  Bryce Merritt.  Ann Miller.  
>>SPEAKER: Good evening, I am from district 1 and like most residents in the Taylor Road area of DeLand my property is unincorporated Volusia County but it is being flooded by communities in the neighborhood of DeLand. This is a photo of our home after hurricane Ian. We have a puddle in a corner of our property, at the deepest 5 inches and please note that post that's circle there.  This is our property after hurricane Milton. We woke up to 2 feet of water across an acre of our property, 27 inches at the most. You can see the post circle the way down there. I don't even know how to estimate how much water we had in comparison to Ian. 200 times as much?  It was catastrophic. You can go ahead and pass through. That is a flooded car and 18 inches of water. That is our backyard which looked like a Bayou. The question that arose in our minds in the world is the difference here?  It's not rainfall, it's about the same. We did not have a clogged canal. We didn't have a failed retention pond. There's only one possible factor we could find around us and it was the building out of the reserve at Lake Victoria which had gone in since hurricane Ian. It was built to handle it .5 inches of water in 24 hours. Where did the rest of it go?  Apparently it went from the reserve at Victoria through what was left of the wetlands and into my neighbors and my yards indicated by that yellow circle. Sorry about my typography.  But that is, not my cartography. This is not the worst of it though. Go to the next one, thanks Krista. There are three more developments slated to go in around us. So we lost tens of thousands of dollars worth of property this time around. If this happens we anticipate the water will be in our home and losses would be in the hundreds of thousands. This is just us but if you go on to the next map this is pulling out a bit to the rest of what's happening at Taylor Road. The yellow circles again are apparently places that are in what do we call them?  Closed basins. Which are clearly human created. Actually what I want to say to you doesn't have to do with the moratorium. I want to thank you as the Council for considering those of us in unincorporated areas flooded by the city. I heard that mentioned several times.  Please keep remembering us because we are not getting any response from the city of DeLand.  Ranking.  
>>CHAIR: Stephen Gunter.  Jack Seeley.  And Susan Shaughnessy.  Stephen.
>>SPEAKER: Wow. You guys, hour and a half driving.  100 miles from the last one that got canceled and now this one, late at night, it's a real burnout for some of us. We definitely had water in our home twice. After 40, 50 years never any flooding but I won't go into all that. You know what's going on. That's why we are here. We would like to say the moratorium, I am neutral. You're not going to solve anything with a moratorium.  You'll get a good breath, maybe some codes changed before people sign a permit. But I'm kinda confused how every building project that goes through a plan review has been going on for decades. In 2005 Volusia County Bank $1.5 billion. They had major bragging rights with no end in sight, 2005.  Fast-forward this is 2025 and you must have banked $10 million in permit fees. What I don't understand is I've seen the engineers having to go over plan reviews. How do you go over all these plan reviews and have as many failures as we have with our homes flooding?  Your consultants had told you from the 90s, do not build in your wetlands and watersheds. If you do you are going to flood the older homes out and destroy habitat.  Here we are, your building in the wetlands, building in the watershed. There's nothing wrong with development but you can't develop in the wetlands. It's been there for decades. I could just say HB 503 – 403.814, the law is you cannot develop cost flooding and impact adjacent lands and you have to have the storage capacity and conveyance routes. Around my house you've used the same ditches for 30 years and yet the development has been 10 times that at the same ditch. It can't hold all that water. Jungle Road is a dam. Yet you send all your storm water from the south side of 44 W., all the development comes to that area within a mile. All the conveyance dumps into that same spot and yet you have the small culvert bridge dam on jungle Road that backflow's and that's what's pushing water to our houses. There's 2 feet of water on Coley Park, the whole area is just underwater. You're not going to solve that. You are just going to have to elevate our houses.  Thank you.  
>>CHAIR: You are Susan?  Go ahead. Jack Seeley is not in the room. It's all yours.
>>SPEAKER: Good evening. I'd like to thank the Council for the opportunity to speak. I am in  Mr. Strickland's district. I live at Jackson Woods Road. Proud and thankful to be next door neighbors with JC and I'm close to the common grounds farm on the other side.  Tomorrow makes 27 years since we closed on our property and moved to Jackson Woods Road.  We have never been out of our home for this long. If I counted correctly tonight will make 98 nights somewhere else than our home.  We had access problems in addition to flooding. Our road floods.  Some of the flooding on Jackson Ranch Road we know was not from the storm. Because the day after Milton Jackson Ranch was not flooded but the day after that it was.  We believe the water came from the elementary school there.  But at any rate, my husband Thomas and I, we don't really have the capacity to dig ditches in our yard anymore. I am a former educator, homeschool mom.  My husband has served our country for 33 years. He is a registered nurse.  But we are old and older and I as a former teacher I'm always looking at definitions of words. So I just want to share something here. I had to write it down because my phone died because I have been here three hours like you. A moratorium is a temporary suspension of an activity until further consideration warrants the lifting of the suspension. Such as if and when the issues that led to the moratorium have been resolved.  We have been flooded by Victoria trails behind us. They are not retaining their storm water.  JC did a great job showing exactly how that's happening. So I do ask you to please consider supporting a moratorium so that the existing problems can be addressed. And I really appreciate being able to be here tonight, thank you.  
>>CHAIR: Thank you. Lisa Smith.  Deanna Coleman. Are you Lisa?  Good.  Deanna Coleman and Cornelius, Neil Ganz out.  Class VI hours, so many things I want to address. First of all Mr. Santiago, one of the last meetings I agree with you, you guys got Keith from a lot of the building around us. When in fact the city was the one that approved it. As far as my understanding is you all denied these builders on three different occasions and they filled out whatever paperwork was needed and the city annexed them in and let them build. Adjacent to my property I lived on rocking have, Don Dempsey's district one. And he knows you, you all know adjacent to my property is wetland. And Mr. Kent, I fell for you hearing your story I think it was about your daughter or family member that looks at 4 to 6 feet of dirt. Basically and then they're going to build on top of that. Ours is probably anywhere from 8 to 10.  And they have flooded us out. I have a neighbor, she had a moat completely around her property.  I mean, there's just so many things that you all know and have heard about. But it is criminal as I say every time what is happening to us longtime residents.  It was our American dream to have our homes and our home was built and just like these new homes and the newer generations coming in what new homes and that's great. But it's not at our expense. We should not be flooded. We should get help. You all have been at least you look at us when we come and talk to you. The city is of no help. I've gone to all the city meetings.  They're not paying attention to us. Nobody, I feel like nobody cares. And I want to thank you all for at least hearing us out. And trying to look for some resolution.  That's all we are asking. We don't want DeLand and the building to stop here. Just temporarily until we can fix the problem. There is certainly enough infrastructure that needs to be rebuilt. Somebody said earlier I mean, the traffic in our town. I know we have roundabouts everywhere now but the traffic is just crazy. You feel like you are in Orlando sometimes. So thank you for listening. I really hope that we can all work together to get something done.  I like Pat Johnson said hurricane season will be here before you know it again so thank you.  
>>CHAIR: DM Coleman.  Cornelius began cell.  Jeffrey root.  Uh-oh. We hit on one. Are you Jeffrey?  
>>SPEAKER: Good evening chair and the councilmembers, Jeffrey root, resident of Delta. Just two years ago while I was still in high school I heard about all the construction jobs available in our area. I knew I wanted to be a part of that area I made the decision to pursue a career in the construction industry started working at a local builder right after I graduated. Now I'm engaged and working towards buying my first home.  I'm really worried about what a 12 month moratorium on new construction could mean for my future. If this moratorium happens I could lose the career I've just started. I would have to leave Volusia County to find work or even consider switching to another career path which feels really discouraging after all the effort I put into this one. I want to build a life here, start a family and support my future wife but if I can't work for up to a year it could have a huge impact on my finances and savings. It could actually wipe them out completely. I hope you understand how devastating this moratorium could be for young workers like me who are just starting out. Thank you for your time and thank you for your consideration.  
>>CHAIR: Jeffrey Graham.  Shannon Kruger and Mallory Tatum.  
>>SPEAKER: Thank you gentlemen and counsel, everybody for coming out, taking time. It has been a long day. I am a Volusia County resident. My family has been in this county for 155 years. My great great grandfathers both came to Orange city in 1870s. So longtime residents.  My grandpa was born in Orange city on Carpenter Lane in 1892. My father was born in new Smyrna so I've seen changes. I've been here 68 years and yes I've seen DeLand grow. I've seen it change.  They built Victoria Park around. It was 20 acres, the heat of the us each have 2 and a half acres.  They built Victoria Park around the trails. There's a 10 foot wall that backs up to my house, my back parking lot is 332 feet, there's 4 and a half houses and the last house on the end we lost 12 people. The center part of that is where they had an area that they did a bunch mark for that development. And they brought that benchmark 3 feet above my property at that point.  They moved millions of yards of soil. They cut down every tree, they raped everything from it.  Over Turtles, smashed, destroyed, scrub Jays gone. Natural habitat. It was for 140 acres of farmland. Some cattle were on it. They changed all that. They built victory Park and that's good, that's progress.  But there's a lot of people that's been harmed by that. And everybody says it didn't do anything. I'm sorry, it has. That wall they built the bottom of it there's 4 inch pipes that come out from it that shoots water onto my property. I've got photographs, I'm happy to show you.  It will take 24 hours to show that.  Anybody wants to see them I'll be happy to show you.  My next-door neighbor to the right had 2 feet of water that came almost to their house. My property slopes off and more water didn't stay up on top of my property. My property is the highest point between blue Lake and not orange, blue Lake and Martin Luther King and that's why they chose my property to put their benchmark to make their property up to that.  There's other neighbors, there's four or five other neighbors that have had a lot of flooding. They haven't been here at the meetings so I need to get them down here for this. I just want to be on the farm, I know all his people and the things they're going through and I'm here to support them.  My pond is personally not flooded down to where that 10 foot pole was. But I feel so bad for everybody else.  
>>CHAIR: Thank you.  Ms. Shannon Kruger, still here?  How about Mallory Tatum.  You are the last 2. 
>>SPEAKER: My name is Shannon Kruger and I live in the north end of DeLand so district 1 but in the county.  I did not personally half of flooding event but I know so many people that did.  I got calls.  I am a fairly recent resident, I've been here about seven years but I've gotten calls from people talking about I would never move there, the flooding.  Because that's the reputation we are getting for having these huge flooding events. I am really strongly in favor of a moratorium. I sold real estate for 30 years. I am not totally anti-development but we need to pause because the definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing we're doing which is approving under the regulations we have and then expecting to get a result that will be different. So if we continue to build under the regulations for large development that we have now it's just going to make a mess works.  I do believe we keep talking about the moratorium and I think everybody here, we're talking really we want a moratorium on large developments. I see no reason that you should have a moratorium if somebody wants to build themselves a single family home. We could have, yeah, that would help habitat, that would help, actually I think a lot of the small builders. If we allowed, you could have an exemption for small lot, I don't want to say small lot, that's not the right word but small developments with at least a quarter acre each like the old tidelands that are not going to make a huge addition to the problem during the moratorium. Allow that could be a window for people who want to build homes because right now it's hard to get anybody to do anything. So allow that, have a moratorium on large developments because we have two major problems we have to solve. We have to figure out how to solve the problems we've already created with the regulations we already have in place that are not working. But we also have to come up with new regulations that will allow some smart development that will make sense for the county to be able to grow. But we can't grow the way up we are now. It's just going to make the mess works. So I think moratorium maybe six months with maybe two month extensions or whatever is needed until we can come up with a solution for the flooding we have and how we can make sure any new development does not make more flooding. We need to solve, I absolutely believe we should not be building on the wetlands, I don't care how many extra feet of dirt they put on it, those plans are meant to refill the aquifers. And we need that.  It's not always going to be raining too much. There are going to be drought times. We need those two. Thank you.  
>>CHAIR: Mallory Tatum. And the last speaker, make it good.  
>> My name is Mallory Tatum and I was supposed to stick with the car but just forgot to put in my card so here I am area and here we are.  So I want to first express my gratitude for your service to the county and for taking the time to hear everyone's input. It's reassuring to see dedicated leaders, excuse me. It's reassuring to see dedicated leaders serving lawmaking actual and science-based decisions. My name is Mallory Tatum and I'm an environmental scientist at Seth Cohen and Associates and a board member.  I obtained my bachelors degree in environmental science from Stetson University and my Masters in environmental science from Copeland University read as a scientist I work at local environmental nonprofits ranging for the federal government and now I work at an environmental consulting. Assisting our clients ranging from local governments, private citizens and developments to abide by the environmental regulations set in place to protect our clean water air and landscapes. As a fifth-generation Floridian there's no better place I would want to live work and play one of the items I volunteered to speak about our wetlands area federal regulations, state statutes and Volusia County colds have been implemented and are designed to protect wetlands. These agencies including Volusia County require developers to avoid and minimize wetland impacts during the permitting process. Avoidance means designing projects to preserve wetlands while minimization involves reducing impacts when avoidance is impossible. These policies are crucial for preserving our natural flood buffers read and we strongly encourage the county to continue that.  To enhance these efforts we propose a tiered fee structure for permanent wetland impacts, higher-quality wetlands would buy prioritized or preservation or harder to impact with fees collected to fund restoration and conservation efforts in the county. This ensures wetlands are protected and maintained in perpetuity. The second item is low impact development or L ID which incorporates avoidance of environmental impacts to manage stormwater runoff, protect water quality and enhance natural ecosystems. Like many people here flooding has hits close to home for me. My home flooded during hurricane Ian and I've worked to make sure I did not have to experience flooding loss. This includes the physical labor of sandbagging outside every door but also asking the hard questions of design prodigies and development moving forward. I believe the strategies presented are critical for building a more resilient Volusia County. Thank you for your attention and we look forward to your questions.  
>>CHAIR: Thank you.  Okay, several names up to start our conversation. We call it debate.  First up is Troy Kent.  
>>TROY KENT: Thank you Chairman and I am prepared to start the debate which is why I put my name out there but chairman, to give you the courtesy this was your item and I applaud you for bringing up this healthy discussion for us to have. Your name came up right after mine. I will yield to you if you wanted to kick this off. If you don't want to start I am happy to but I wanted to make sure I offered that to you. I will go after you if you go first.
>>CHAIR: I would appreciate that. I will take you up on that because I don't know where anybody else is going.
>>TROY KENT: Just keep my name in the queue please.
>>CHAIR: Still there. And I did put this on the agenda. I am proposing a moratorium for the specific person, the purpose of finding solutions to our current flooding.  I am proposing it for the purpose of making changes in the way we are developing. Every day we delay and more development is approved we risk flooding out more of our constituents. Our current development standards are already a burden. To our local economy and to the property values and finances of our residents. Some of our residents have lost the most significant investment of their lives as well as their lifelong lifetime personal possessions. How many are tolerable?  We cannot afford to add another flooded neighborhood. We don't have the money to correct the flooding issues we have now. Continuing to add more flooding is a recipe for financial ruin for our cities, for our County and already for some of our residents. I am proposing a moratorium that should be as short as possible but gives us time to work with the city's and state to put meaningful changes in place before adding to the list of flooded neighborhoods. I'm hoping the construction industry, the chambers, real estate groups, that all of us will work together with the County and the cities to make the necessary changes. With a moratorium in place I believe solutions will come rapidly. I don't want to harm anyone's business. I don't want to harm anyone's future. However, that is already happening. The sooner we do this as a community more resilient and profitable we will all be.  And we will see fewer of our neighbors losing everything they have worked for.  There is already financial pain and ruin in our community.  We have the dubious honor of being the number one county in Florida for flooding.  That is already damaging our economy.  We are destroying our own quality of life.  We need good businesses to come to our county with high paying jobs.  We want our local businesses that are already here to thrive.  A few of our businesses are flooding now.  But who will want to come if we maintain the reputation of the most flood prone county in the state of Florida?  What business will relocate here if they fear their employees can't find a safe place to live?  Let's work together. This Council I believe tonight is ready to work together to find solutions. Let's do that before the price is even higher. Our suffering residents require immediate action. Our future generations are here demanding that we take action.  Now, yesterday I had a conversation with staff and I said the most important thing I think we can do is to stop the drain and fill developments and I was told that's not science.  That's not what's causing the problem.  Can you put up that first picture of Venetian Bay?  They referred me to report by Jones Edmunds and I'm not blaming Jones Edmunds or the report but I am going to say the way we are using it is misleading at best and deceptive at worst. The last sentence in their development analysis says the model results showed no significant off-site impacts caused by the two developments for hurricane Ian. Well, here's why.  That's not Venetian Bay.  That's Coastal Woods. This is Venetian Bay.  Look, there's another picture of Venetian Bay that's further out. This should have been the second one. Do you have the other picture there?  Venetian Bay is surrounded by open land. They didn't flood neighboring properties because there are no neighboring properties around them. They are their own neighborhood and they didn't flood. The picture that was just up if you could put it back up again before I am out of time, I'm going to be out of time. The other one was Coastal Woods. The same thing. Coastal Woods is surrounded by preserved property. There are no neighborhoods to flood. So to say these prove that raised up neighborhoods are not flooding the neighborhoods around them is just a symptom and we shouldn't be using it to say that because that's not what it says and I will continue on in my next five minutes. I am asking for a moratorium with exclusions for single-family homes and for commercial because that's not what's causing the problem. It is raised developments, Troy Kent.  
>>TROY KENT: Thank you Chairman and I do applaud you for having the guts to bring this up and talk about this because it's a real problem in our communities right now currently.  And I want to thank the public for showing up today. There wasn't an open seat. For those of you listening online there was not an open seat and I believe the overflow downstairs was probably fall as well. At one point we had 92 speakers signed up to speak and this is one of the reasons I love local government is that you have direct access to your elected leaders that you put in these rented seats to represent you and you get to come forward and tell us what's on your mind. And I appreciate each and every one of you for sharing that because this public testimony piece is hugely important I know to be when I'm formulating a decision, especially one as big as this.  I'm going to come out and tell you I am no to a moratorium.  But I bring solutions. And I appreciate it, you don't have to yell out from the crowd with any snarky comments. I am a no to a moratorium but I bring solutions that I think that this County should adapt and implement immediately. I come to you tonight with a multipronged approach and there are seven things I want this council to consider. And I'm hopeful I can get all seven of them, we can get all seven of them but here they are, I am going to lay them out for everyone.  We need to stop this problem for continuing to happen and fix the problem. Number one, nor building on any wetlands whatsoever.  If you want to see how it can be done in Ormond Beach on Granada Boulevard look at the Office Depot and the Moose Lodge. That was BT, before Troy was an elected official, I don't get to take credit for this but the commissions before me did and look at those buildings and how they were built and how those majestic oaks were untouched and how the wetlands there on Granada, the fingers of wetlands were untouched. Number two, no more paying into a wetland mitigation bank. Number three, your water on your property must stay on your property. Number four, we must clear all County and city canals and overrode River branch etc. Number five, we need to have a realistic but an aggressive plan to purchase low-lying homes and low-lying lands that consistently flood. These individuals want to sell their homes. They don't want to live in water. They know they are going to have a hard time selling it. We want to make sure we are partnering with FEMA who are the feds, the state, the cities and our county dollars and we need to purchase those homes and turn those areas into storm water retention ponds. We need to have a serious discussion about the county lands we own that are near these flooded areas that we can put that water into a retention pond. That was number six.  And number seven, we need to have better, healthier conversations with our cities about apartment complexes. If you have not been down on the east side, and I'm sorry I'm not giving the west side any love, I will let you West high guys talk about the apartments over here but if it is a concern of yours but if you've not been down LPGA, or Williamson you look at the clearcutting taking place in the thousands of people that they're bringing in and I know it's supply and demand but we need to have healthy conversations with our cities and pull back on the reins and say come on now. I'm not a no growth person. I am not your guy for that. I am not a no development, I'm not your guy for that. I am a no until the infrastructure can handle it. If our roads can't handle it, if we don't have the ability to put the water somewhere I have a hard no all day every day so those are my seven things gentlemen that I would love for us to consider tonight.  
>>CHAIR: Can you repeat number four?  
>>TROY KENT: Clear all city canals so Mr. Chairman I got 10 seconds left in my first round and I am a no to get your moratorium but a yes to the seven things I brought up.  
>> Councilman Santiago.
>>DAVID SANTIAGO: Thinned out outside, I was hopeful more people would stay. I guess it is late. And that was just those I question why I wanted the one minute, I wanted to give everyone the opportunity to speak and if you heard the cards, a lot of people left because of the duration as I predicted. I want to hear from everyone, not to stifle any speech and this conversation would have started an hour and a half ago and many people would have been heard but unfortunately many of you won't hear them so I am a little daunted by that. David Hill, thank you for sharing your experience and Kathy, the meeting of the St. John's water management area I'd like staff to follow up on their comments with Johnson to see where are they talking about so we can get on that right away and I am hopeful.  I'll save my time, in case you wanted to chime in.
>>CHAIR: Can you hold this time please?  
>> I had conversations with the chair this morning before the meeting. And yes, we will continue those conversations but the chair wants to also send a message that she is on top of it, ready to help out however she can and I think we have those conversations this morning which probably contributed to a good experience that everybody had so good news, we are out ahead on that. 
>> I had the opportunity to meet with the Miller Lake folks and a few others just so you know. I think I shared with Mr. JC earlier today that what I found and the people I've met with, their problems are a little different. The causes are slightly different and different from the Miller Lake area and I think I agree with what we said that we need action. I wrote down some of the comments people said. If you followed along with a lot of the questions and answers of our staff, they've been answered and provided to us I hope you picked up there's a lot of things going on. There are several things going on. There's hundreds of millions of dollars getting ready to be invested. This didn't start yesterday, this has been going on for over a year.  In that committee almost 2 years, they started on this low impact development focus a little over a year ago so this wasn't yesterday that we picked this up. I know some folks don't think that we just started this, this has been a lot of work happening. There was commentary about the this deployment with another study. If you listened into some of the feedback we received the purpose for the studies it gives us solutions on how to fix each of the individual areas. They had the individual basins, these studies are going to look at what the root causes are and what potential solutions are in place specific to those areas. That's how we come up with the ideas for the fixes. That's why we need them. I wanted to address that. I came in here today whether you believe it or not with an open mind to find out if there is a basis for a countywide moratorium and I'm not convinced we passed that threshold to impact this county drastically with such a heavy arm. First also in relation to that I hope you also learn that our legal department made it very clear we have no authority to impose a moratorium on any of the cities. It does not exist. I don't care who tells you anything or otherwise. 100% cannot do it.  
>> ... So we don't have that authority. With that in mind also is important for the public to know that in the two years this council has been joined we only really approved too. I asked staff so I stepped back and did research, there have been two development projects that I think you could consider significant. Don't hold me to the numbers. One of them was 162 units, another one was about 20 units. Outside of that we had several small ones, a 10 acre parcel divided into five for a family member but we only did two in this county. Even if we put a moratorium today that could only be imposed in the county, you will see no results of that. Because the county cannot enforce it in the city. There's no real development happening in the county. Those are the reality is, I'm not trying to insult anybody but that is the reality of what we are dealing with. What we need our solutions. I've met with the residents, I'm all in finding solutions. I met with JC, I want to find a solution. I don't want to worry people more.  Don't want to think people or allege this county counsel or staff is not doing anything to it. My colleagues meet with them too. They're working hard. They've been doing it for years. I don't agree with everything they do but that is life and we try to redirect them. I'll speak for myself and I would say the majority of the Council because I talked to them. We take this serious but a moratorium will not solve anyone's problem that was here today talking about their flooding. I am sorry you flooded and certainly we have a huge task to implement some new standards. I agree with almost everything staff said today that we need to do. I throw out some ideas and we need to run with them. A lot of them are in the pipeline within the next 3 to 6 months you will see a lot of these things start to fall into place. They are in action and we can work on more and more as we learn more. Moratorium will not solve anybody's problems.  Thank you Mr. Chair.
>>CHAIR: Mr. Dempsey.
>>DON DEMPSEY: I'm going to lead off the same way Troy did, I am a no for a moratorium. I don't believe a moratorium will do anything except take away people's livelihoods and I just don't want to see that happen. I had the benefit, I grew up in a broken home. My mom took me up and I was raised in a coal mining town in southwestern PA. I came to visit my dad in DeLand. I got through my childhood of visiting my dad I got to see DeLand go from dead land to almost triple its population in the last 30 something years. And I also got to watch what used it to have the most millionaires per capita being a coal mining community go from that to nothing. Closed storefronts. Deserted town. Basically dead land north. So the fact that we are in a growing community, I don't want to say we are spoiled but we ought to relish that because it is a good problem to have because I've seen both sides of it and I don't want to do anything to inhibit growth. If we shut down the building community they are going to leave. These guys here are going to go find a job in Tampa or Orlando or Miami.  Lumberjacks got to go where the trees are and they have got to go where the work is. When this one year moratorium is over good luck getting them back. That's the problem we had with Covid. I talked to guys who have thriving construction businesses and when Covid was over we only got half their staff back. It's hard enough now to find workers. And to give them an incentive to leave the area, good luck getting them back.  So we don't want to do that. These are heroes in my opinion. They are the ones that get out there and get dirty and do the work for us so we don't want to run them out of town.  I have a two-step plan and I got a long term in the short term. I keep hearing repeatedly that it's the cities. I think from one I first started here our County and please correct me if I'm wrong if they're still here, our County is 700,000 acres. Back in 1990 we had 100,000 acres of municipal, the rest County. Now municipalities have double they are now 200,000 which is annexation.  I submit that and I hear this all the time. The cities don't turn down annexations. That whole area Taylor Road I think was all turned down by County and they asked right into the city and there we go.  And yet we are left to clean up the mess. So I don't necessarily appreciate that.  So in the short term I would like to use every single time we have of this federal money for infrastructure like I've been trying for the last year. Infrastructure, infrastructure, infrastructure. Then use that for strategic land acquisition. From what I've heard from Mr. Bartlett and other people it seems like a quick fix is going to be ready to land acquisition and demolition and expand storm water retention and I agree with that. I am flattered you guys think we can find a fix in six months or a year. I don't think any of us are that smart but from just the year and a half or whatever of listening to our experts and other experts it seems like land acquisition is the best choice. I spent an hour and a half with doctor Anderson yesterday. And I appreciate their working on this and we got all these basin studies coming. Was it $8 million we spent?  With all that comes back but I want to be ready to pull the trigger that when these studies come back and they say you want to fix Taylor Road, you've got willing sellers, by these properties create immediate storm water retention and let's have the checkbook ready to write that check. Miller Rd., Lake dirty. I hear quick fix problems but they are expensive.  But we're getting 328 million from transform 386, another hundred plus million from this note and relief money. And I'm just, maybe I'm overconfident in our new administration but if we rank number one in the state and flooding and seven in the country 80 if we turn him down and say I know that's earmarked for low income housing areas, but how about say thanks but no thanks unless we can put it all to infrastructure. And I have a feeling president Trump and whoever else is pulling the strings of their would listen to us.  We are a strong Republican state. I don't think he's going to turn his backs on us and I have a lot of faith in that. I'm sorry.  
>>CHAIR: Before we go on you said you had a long term in the short term, which was which.  
>> Both of those, land acquisition??  I will wait until I use the other five.
>> Short-term.
>> Yes.
>>CHAIR: Councilman Johansson.
>>JAKE JOHANSSON: I want to discuss and clarify a few things. I hate to mince words but I don't want anybody that is a colonel out there to think I was a colonel. I was a Navy captain, same rank, just a different name. Secondly I keep hearing about this number 1 for flooding.  So for me in the military one of the things we always talked about is re-referencing so I went to the company that did the research and the landscaping firm, loan builder and they don't have a research are. So I can't give you the details other than they went to FEMA. So I went to FEMA and they say we are number one but what it indicates and what that study they had showed was that we are one of the most vulnerable cities or vulnerable counties for flooding. And that is because we stink at infrastructure. It is because of our location. A lot of Florida counties were in there. You know why?  Because we get hurricanes.  So we are pretty low on the fire thing, a lot lower than California is. So that's, I just want to clarify that.  On the moratorium, I have a no for the moratorium for a lot of the same reasons but one of the things that I had a problem with when I was doing my research is if development is causing flooding and I drive down 95 and see the distribution center, I drive down Highway 4 and see that distribution center and the big hospital out here. And I look at the impervious land that's just decimated with asphalt and then I think why boreholes that people live in but not that big slab?  What makes it okay for them but not okay for them?  And I couldn't find myself a good reason why it was not good for raising land for residential but it was okay for raising land for Amazon distribution, nothing against Amazon. I got some stuff today.  So that was a problem for me.  I want everybody to know a lot of people talk today about hitting the cities together and getting the county together. In my opinion we should have done that years ago. But definitely before this meeting.  You know, just throw it out there.  So what has been done is the Roundtable of elected officials which a lot of you all may not be aware of for definitely don't go to because I go to them, it's all the mayors for the most part or elected representatives from each of the 18 cities but there is only 16 of them. I don't know where the other two are, we've got to talk to a lawyer about that later. And the chairman and County manager and a lot of elected officials and city managers in the wings. But they established a resilience flooding subcommittee which will be one person from each city, one person from the county of which that happens to be me. I am cochair with the mayor of Daytona Beach Shores and we are going to take a lot of these tasks and take care of them.  And look at each of them, we will work with Ben Bartlett and we invite doctor Anderson's of the world and the Vikar's of the world to give us good answers to some of these questions and ask for every cities studies and put them all together and see if we can make sense of the whole thing so we are not operating 16 separate silos and they are trying to get stuff done comprehensively and try to think regionally instead of just citywide because if we think citywide we will build a wall around our city and the other 15 or 17 cities no matter how you count them will flood so we applied for that so that's where we are headed.  
>>CHAIR: Councilman Reinhart.
>>MATT REINHART: Thank you Mr. Chair, first off I want to thank you for bringing it up, regardless of whether or not we are in agreement and I'm not in agreement with the moratorium for many of the same reasons that I appreciate the fact you are passionate about it. I am interested to know what ENRAC will bring. I attended the County Council meetings before I got elected and I sat back and I heard about this ENRAC. I even remember when they came up with a name for it and I was excited about it because there were a lot of issues back then that were in existence today they could have addressed.  And I'll admit at first I was concerned when no offense, but they got hung up on the trees for so long. But at the same time it showed me the passion they had about everything involving the environment in this county. And that I committed. And then when we asked them we have an issue with OID they took it and ran with it.  Dr., you are one of the smartest people I've ever met in my life and I thank you for your service. I truly do and I think you're going to bring a lot of things to the table with respect to that.  I said during my questions that every Council member has heard of an area in their district that is suffering.  Timucua farmers village really hits home. I'm not a scientist, a lot of them believe it's due to the development. And Mr. Dempsey you brought it up earlier with respect to what we have all heard about everybody well it's this development, this development. Mr. Santiago, I checked, it is two of the developments that we as a Council approved.  So a lot of it is the developments are occurring in the cities. So I do think part of that process, Mr. Kent, I am going to agree with you on your steps. I actually had a couple more to add.  But the wetlands building, I agree. The wetland mitigation bank, water stays on your property, okay.  Clearing canals, we had that same conversation earlier when I was asking Mr. Bartlett the questions about canals and his responsibility. There is a lot of confusion on that one whose canal is who's. I get emails all the time, are you going to do about the canal?  Call the state unfortunately because they thought it was the counties.  So anyways, I could go on about that. The purchase of low-lying lands. I like that. I've said that before. After a storm I asked Mr. Bartlett I said have you looked at those things and said as a result of the storm have you seen a lot of flooding in that area, wouldn't it be nice to purchase that but I will say it again you have to have willing sellers so unfortunately we can't take it over. Better communication with the cities and I agree with you 110% and I think we've got that. Well, we've got it now. I will leave it at that. This committee formed at the Roundtable I think is a great idea and it's holding them to that. It's accountability. It's talking about yes, we could call it a different name, I don't like that name either area and I didn't spend my career in the military, it was in law enforcement but I don't like that word either we can come up with a fancy word or a committee but having that oversight I think oversight is important, it holds everybody accountable so I truly believe in that. There were other issues, I heard something about sand plugs, I'm interested in that. I see Wendy is over there shaking her head. But I hear golf courses, I very seldom see them flood so I think they are onto something.  More storage for retention. There was an area in Daytona that flooded drastically.  There was an area right behind, the South Street area.  There's an area directly behind it that they evacuated those homes and they have been since hurricane Ian, two years. It belongs to the city of Daytona, you talk about tearing them down and rebuilding, tear them down and use them for retention to help the apartment complexes that are flooding. We've got to continue to have those conversations with the city as well but it doesn't just mean us. It means the citizens as well. When you have those planning boards, go to the planning boards and I will reserve those for later
>>CHAIR: Councilman Robins.
>>DANNY ROBINS: Thank you, all great talking points and I share the same concerns.  But just so everyone knows being target specific, making all of our moves count on what we can control here locally first and foremost focusing on laser locking on what we can control and fun and do our level while collaborating and walking and chewing at the same time. I think we are all capable of doing that. High impact solutions and decisions and focusing on results without further damaging our community. To ensure that you are is like we saw with Covid, that the cure is not worse than the diagnosis because we are still dealing with that. Regional collaboration is going to be key. As we heard tonight a lot of these issues are happening within the cities.  With that being said, those issues are still our issues. We are a community and we need in my opinion to work better with our cities and our neighbors.  It would appear we got this other board established, we've got one of our own chairing or cochairing it to help with that collaboration regionally.  And like many of my colleagues with data and the facts given today and the fact that there is a lack of development or very little developments in unincorporated Volusia, I just don't think a moratorium is prudent at this time because we have so much more we can do in the meantime or we are already doing without hitting that nuclear button and causing further damage to our citizens and our community and our economy.  Thank you.  
>>CHAIR: Councilman Dempsey.
>>DON DEMPSEY: Continuing on like I said I'm going to talk fast. The fast fix would be land acquisition, going to the federal government are doing whatever we've got to do to try to maximize the amount of federal dollars we can use to infrastructure for strategic with vision of competitively flooded property. Stop programs that incentivize more development, I keep saying that the affordable housing. We are leaving impact fees, putting permitting to the front of the line. Why would we get incentives for more development and we are here talking about stopping all development so why should you guys pay more taxes to offer incentives for more building?  That makes no sense to me.  If we have to I agree with Ms. Schreiber. If we need to use County property even if it's not strategically located right off property for storm water baby we need to sell some assets. We hold a lot of money but our goal is 50% of the land. Maybe we need to sell off some of that land to buy these strategic properties. Maybe we could do a hierarchy or something like that and properties we could afford to sell to raise quick cash to buy these repetitively flooded properties to get them out of there though we could build more storm water retention, that would be a good quick fix if we could do that.  We've got the uncanny ability now to make a lot of changes with the charter review coming up in a couple of years.  What I'd like to do is once these committees do all their thing and wins we've got all these reports coming in once we've got ENRAC's report and we get the input from the Roundtable resource, put all that together and make whatever recommendations, put it on a referendum. If we need to put it out to a vote for whatever amount of time for whatever millage to get quick revenue to put a fix to these repetitively flooded properties and buy them out for however long it would take to raise enough of that money and last is I would like to see this referendum take away all this limitation that the county has with the city. Mr. Robins is saying, I will say the word but why can't somebody go around and enforce these regulations, why isn't somebody monitoring these subdivisions to make sure they're not enforcing limitations, maybe we can put it out for a referendum, maybe the voters want the county to take some of that power.  80 we should have the power to trump the cities desires and serve in some of these areas because 80 we've had enough of the cities. We've turned down properties and these days and asked them and we have to let go of the wheel and say you can do whatever you want. Maybe we need to take some of that back to have more oversight. We're talking about rural boundaries, maybe we need to look at other options that we can let the voters decide on in two years and since the charter review and he is coming up baby this needs to be a discussion once we get all these reports, roundtables, ENRAC, assimilate it, delete it, see what we put on a referendum and let the voters decide.  That's basically it guys.  But I don't want to see a moratorium go through.  I agree with Troy's list. I think it's wonderful. These are a couple of other things I thought about so thank you guys very much.  
>>CHAIR: Councilman San Diego.
>>DAVID SANTIAGO: At the jail I thought they called you the czar?  I thought I did some research on it.  So the referendum stuff, Don and I think it's a good discussion because we're going to be getting into that in the next few months anyway so I support having that discussion to recommend whether we want to send it to the committee we are going to be forming or we could put stuff on the question on ourselves also for a referendum vote. So I think those conversations because of the impact it has it probably should go to that level. As far as Troy's seven comments, I could agree with all of them but there's going to be a problem with one of them, I don't know the number but the hold water on your land, if you remember from our legal presentation one of the points there was I believe it was federal law pertaining to water to not affecting the natural flow of wetlands. That one might be problematic, I just wanted to share that.  And what I'd like to do counsel is we heard a lot of great things from staff that's already ready to come to us very shortly. I think Clay had mentioned we are updating chapter 72 first. I want to get through those things as quickly as possible and shift to whatever we can implement from there into chapter 50 which then we have say with how the city is developed. That's the process we are following. If we are putting it in 72 if we can legally put it in 50 I'm going to put it in 52 and we hold the city accountable to how they deal with storm water though I am supportive of that transition. I do ask that staff or legal team, as we get these proposals coming before us and ordinances to adopt some of these changes that staff is talking about, if we can make those announcements as broad as possible. I know Paul mentioned what authority we can expand on and we amend the language as we're going through. Please make it as broad as possible because there's a lot of ideas floating.  Six items and I'll say that now, the six items are worthy of discussion during those times that we can amend ordinances as they come before us if we so feel to implement some of those six items I think are worthy to put in. Unless staff puts them in beforehand.  Mr. chair I had a question. Do you need us to make a motion or can this just, it looks like there is no support, can it move forward without lack of support, what do you feel is appropriate?
>>CHAIR: I can answer that because I can't make a motion, I am the only one for the moratorium so there's not going to be a motion or a moratorium.
>>DAVID SANTIAGO: So we let it die.  
>>CHAIR: What we have to and a half tonight's solutions. We can't walk away from here and go all other year and next year have a whole other set of people flooded out of their homes. Don is talking about two years of referendum, that gives us two years of new people flooded out, we've got to start somewhere.
>>DAVID SANTIAGO: I agree with you.
>>CHAIR: I thought you did.
>>DAVID SANTIAGO: But if we rewind the tape staff said they will put something in within 2 to 3 weeks.
>>CHAIR: I'm not arguing, but I want to come out of here with a couple of motions maybe of things to do. Troy listed seven.  I want to add one.
>>DAVID SANTIAGO: I will make a motion. I move to not pursue a countywide County imposed moratorium and direct staff to bring forward ordinances as proposed recommendations from ENRAC and other agencies in response to some of the proposals put forward from staff.  I am missing one thing. And to incorporate I will say six Troy, the six items you said minus oh hold your water on your land as our recommendation because I don't think it will comply with federal law and that is my motion.
>>TROY KENT: May I add Mr. Chairman, may I make a comment to Mr. Santiago?  No, because I am thrilled actually and chairman I am a also very happy for you. Even though the moratorium isn't happening I think the conversation and actions this counsel from what I've heard thus far and the vote getting ready to have been under David's leadership with that motion is a huge step in the right direction. And for me chair I think this is a win not only for you, a win for this counsel but really a win for the people of Volusia County area I wanted to ask David and I am okay with taking that one off if I can get six of my seven. I'm not going to cut off my nose to spite her face but the chairman said he wanted to add something and I wanted to hear what you wanted to add because Mr. Chair, maybe Mr. Santiago will add that to the motion. Since you let me have the mic for a minute, Mr. Johansson, I found out yesterday in my district dialogue that you were leading this new board and I've got to tell you, Suzanne Schreiber, not to put words in your mouth but she was super excited to tell me about it with your leadership and I wanted to say it made me take a side and a weight off my shoulders because you are the right leader at the right time to help direct that group of leaders into doing good for Volusia County. I wanted you to know I totally endorse your leadership on that and I am excited for what you will help mold in Volusia, thank you for your latitude.
>>DAVID SANTIAGO: Go ahead Mr. Chairman.
A second on the motion is still out there because Troy asked me to add to it.  I think it was maybe all of you said that, it was Matt said I appreciate you are passionate about a moratorium.
>>CHAIR: I'm not. I am passionate about finding solutions. I am passionate about moving forward but what we're talking about now is what led me to a moratorium because I don't see action for two years.  So we need to find a way we start with action with your motion here. What I wanted to add Troy was you said stop building on the wetlands. I am going to say stop the listing the land to build. That's going to be more complicated.  But I pointed out the two developments that Jones Edmunds said proves that I don't think they said this, those developments are causing flooding, there aren't any neighborhoods around.  There's no neighborhoods around Amazon so Amazon is not causing flooding. But all we have to do is look at Sawyer's landing and Victoria Park and look at the flooding. You can follow the water and see it flooding.  
>>JAKE JOHANSSON: Point of order sir.
>>CHAIR: What is your point?  
>>JAKE JOHANSSON: Can we get back on track?  
>>CHAIR: We are. He asked me a question, it didn't have a yes, sir no answer.  Lake Winnemesett. If nobody believes there's flooding, we have a problem because that's where most of it is coming from.
>> If Mr. Santiago is okay with adding that, Mr. Johansson will second it or I will be happy to second.  I'm sensitive to timelines. I feel like we should give staff a timeline to start bringing this stuff back to us because time is of the essence.  
>>JAKE JOHANSSON: February 11.  >> We are going to propose a special meeting February 11 which is a gap meeting there in February to attack the chapter 72 and LID to interact recommendations to bring them forward, go over them and they would be getting a motion towards being put in place.
>> I think Jake already seconded, I don't know if you her.  Your points in those communities, I am hopeful and I don't know the answer that some of those will come with these basin studies that may be around those areas so we get the answers to the questions you need. And we can address it certainly that.  But I also asked staff in my motion to make their notice very broad so it gives us a lot more latitude to make changes.
>>JAKE JOHANSSON: The purpose would be what I mentioned, we can open the reason for the meeting a little broader so some of these other things can be discussed.
>> So you know we generally do write them as about as general as I can get away with.  Sometimes you can't and you've got to bring it back.
>> You can make it an act relating to county ordinances.
>> That is probably a little too general.
>> That is my motion, happy to have a second.
>> I am confused, did you add mine to the motion?  I wanted one thing out of this whole night.  We spent 10 hours.
>> I am not clear, what is the addition? 
>> The addition is to end raising the land for development. High-rise land developments.
>> I don't know if we can do that Mr. Chair.
>>CHAIR: But we need to and we've got to start figuring out how we do that.
>> I'm not opposed to the conversation. I don't know if we can do that.  
>>JAKE JOHANSSON: Can we get back on track please?  
>>CHAIR: We are, we are discussing his motion.
>>JAKE JOHANSSON: Motion has been stated. It has been seconded.
>>CHAIR: All right, cool.  
>>CHAIR: It is illegal?  
>>JAKE JOHANSSON: Mr. Chairman, can we get a two-minute resource, recess please?
>> Second.
>> Does counsel want a two-minute recess, all in favor say aye.  We've got to get this done. Two-minute recess.  We are back at 10:59.
>> ... 
>>CHAIR: Motion on the floor is Troy's six points.  Your water stays on your property because you didn't believe we could do that with the state.  
>>DAVID SANTIAGO: Because legal department said we can't do that.
>>CHAIR: And we've struck the one thing I wanted to add to get away from raising the land that floods out people around them.
>>DAVID SANTIAGO: I get you. I want to leave it off this motion but I would support a motion after this directing staff to do the legal analysis on your request and get that back to us.
>>CHAIR: Aren't they going to do legal analysis on all of these?  
>>DAVID SANTIAGO: Make it separate.
>>CHAIR: I am not going to argue with you. The motion on the floor is for these six items, seconded by Jake Johansson. Any time frame on it?  
>>DAVID SANTIAGO: For the next meeting to allow latitude in the ordinances coming before us so we can add things on there and staff may come ahead of time with a recommendation. For example no build on the wetlands, those sorts of things.
>> This is the additional information to look at a possible option.  
>>CHAIR: Okay, so the motion is to get additional information.
>>DAVID SANTIAGO: To create ordinances for it. We would have ordinances proposed on February 11.
>>CHAIR: That is the motion on the floor. This is why I asked for a moratorium because we are looking at years now. I hope I am wrong. That's what I see. I hope I'm wrong.
>>DAVID SANTIAGO: The board voted on a few things, that's not years, that is three weeks away.  
>>CHAIR: So it is a really long motion.  Can you reiterate it before I call?  
>>DAVID SANTIAGO: I think the Council understands the motion and we are ready to vote.
>>CHAIR: Is there any debate on it?  
>>TROY KENT: I don't want to delay this any longer but we are talking about getting more information. I want to wait until all the studies are in and all the engineers there was low hanging fruit I think Troy had on here I think we could deal with.  
>>JAKE JOHANSSON: Let me know when it is my turn Chairman.
>>CHAIR: I opened it up for debate or questions so if that is where you are.
>>JAKE JOHANSSON: Thank you Chairman. I think if I understand they have come up with some options and we're going to hear those and we can adopt those, yes, on the 11th?  If we are all liquored up LID and they bring three or four or five LID for us we can vote to incorporate them which should be familiar because he made them basically optional a couple of months ago.  And the other stuff Clay is bringing to us I think we can vote to accept that as well so we are going to start making progress.  The pace studies are going to come in and we can make more changes if we need to.  Yes, the charter review committee is going to be a while. So that's going to have to wait but there's a ton of things we can do in the meantime.  And my subcommittee is going to take a wild to get some stuff done but I will share with you this and I was going to talk about it being the other thing. The gentleman up here talked about leadership.  And I think the most important part about sticky issues like this that need to be resolved is we need to work with stakeholders to get consensus. You just can't show up with somebody's agenda and try to get it passed.  Who do we work with?  We work with all the stakeholders, all the cities. We are working with the citizens.  How many of us and I am in a phone call with one board member but how many of us have been to Palatka to a St. John's River water management meeting?  There are some relationship building that can go on there.  I see the guy at the roundtable every week but I don't talk to the board that often save one person. So those are relationships that need to be had. And I think it's important that as we are able that we get up there and talk to those folks and have a working relationship so it's just a phone call away, not the hey, I am one of the members of the Council. I think that's part of leadership.  When we say the cities are to blame, at the end of the day I think it was Troy that brought it up or maybe David at the end of the day we are the county and although we don't have legal authority over a lot of things the cities do, geographically we represent the whole stinking County area all 18 cities.  It's our responsibility to kind of lead them in this collaboration.  So I urge us all to work on those relationships so we don't have to wait until something bad comes up to start asking for help, favors, things of that nature. That's all I have.
>>CHAIR: I will make this quick, I couldn't agree with you more. We need to work on relationships. Which is why I've spent the last four years traveling this county talking to residents from one end of the county to the other about flooding problems.  And by a huge margin they want solutions but they wanted a moratorium because they don't want to keep adding. They know if we spend a year or two years doing this the new developments approved and it just adds to the problem. I did go to St. John's water management District, I toured Lake Winnamisett and he said crest wins was breaking the law.  I hope he's talking to some of the call people about that.  I went to Edgewater and I worked with the mayor and some of the councilmembers on their moratorium which I passed. I got a text that said new Smyrna Beach extended their moratorium.  So I'm talking to people all over and I went to Pearson to talk to the city Council there.  They supported the moratorium. We are not going to get a moratorium and I'm not going to cry about that.  I just want some kind of a push to get these things done so that we are not back here next year with a whole new chamber full of people that are flooded out. So we've got motion on the floor for Troy's six items.  I don't know who as well, I will go with the top name, Troy can't.
>>TROY KENT: Thank you Chairman.  I've got five minutes but I am only going to take I think one, if that. Publicly I want to thank you and I can't tell you how to think or how to feel but to me, just my thoughts, what a huge win for Jeff Brouwer's agenda to help our County tonight and I say that because we are here tonight because this was what you brought up. As the chairman you get to add things to the agenda and we have a special meeting about this.  We have six things that I know are going to help this county.  And when I'm done talking and we're done with this vote I will follow Mr. Santiago's lead and make a separate motion to direct staff to look into your idea.  So I guess I'm using my second five minutes, my last 10 seconds to tell you thanks for bringing this to the forefront because now there is action and change and it's a huge part of it is because of what you did, sir. Chairman, thanks for that.
>>CHAIR: You said that twice, I appreciate it.  I want the same thing everybody I'm looking at once. If we want results for our people.  I am looking for a way to make sure we push it and push it so I will continue to do that, Matt Reinhart.
>>MATT REINHART: I didn't want to leave a couple cities out when we talk about it's not just Timucua farms village, it's areas in DeLand, it's everywhere and I know Midtown is working well with the Army Corps of Engineers. I appreciate that.  Ralph Daytona is looking for grant money which we approved for retention areas in that area. Those are Band-Aids, I'm sorry but they are and we need to look for better solutions and I couldn't agree more. Just for clarification, on February 11 what exactly will come to us?  Just so there's no confusion because I see a lot of faces like what will happen, what do we do, what did we accomplish?  Clay, I am sorry. Just so there's clarification on exactly what we are accomplishing with this vote this evening.
>>CHAIR: February 11 one item will be presentation and recommendations for the LID statements to be added for storm water as an alternative. It has gone through ENRAC. It's made the recommendations, planning development commission has reviewed it. They've made their recommended changes. It's coming to the ordinance. You can take action on that and that the cop plan amendment and first reading will be available from there.
>> From that point the one on the LID.
>>CHAIR: The second will be items presented this Thursday to planning and development regulation from which our recommended changes from ENRAC for our storm water standards on chapter 72 of the code enforcement.
>>MATT REINHART: Which is what you are talking about, we could apply to chapter 50.
>>CHAIR: ENRAC is working on the analysis to get them from February how the changes could affect chapter 50 and also looking at how surrounding counties and the 16 cities have so we are working on trying to do a comparison and analysis of how other local governments are following through with storm water regulations to see what can be incorporated in chapter 50 reedit based on that we may have subsequent changes to chapter 72.
>>MATT REINHART: What are we bringing back to with the six other issues Mr. Kent brought up?  
>>CHAIR: We will have to start digging into those discussions ENRAC is having and basically follow through on that.
>>MATT REINHART: And see if that would be something we can focus on on that day. For you to bring it back, I understand.  I guess I am eager like the chair is. So we will hear more information with respect to that and devote more on that soon. Thank you Mr. chair.
>>CHAIR: I don't think we need to call the roll. All in favor of proceeding with these six solutions say aye. Any opposed. We will start with that. Mr. Kent.  
>>TROY KENT: Chairman, I make a motion to direct staff to bring back to us, have legal look at and have management look at your idea of not allowing I think it was infill on any new development. Is that what you were talking about?  Raising the land. Want me to word that differently?  This was your idea and you can make a motion because you are chairman.  
>>CHAIR: Unless I pass the gavel to our vice but I don't think it's necessary.  
>>TROY KENT: Is that word okay, how would you like that?  
>>CHAIR: I would like more information on how we raise the land for new developments, whatever the footages.
>>TROY KENT: I think it's going to make it be a major issue but I am okay asking the question so it can come back to us.  
>>CHAIR: You are number two, no wetland mitigation?  
>>TROY KENT: Number one, stop building on wetlands.
>>CHAIR: It is probably going to be as difficult as the one I have but it could solve the problem caused when we develop wetland is when we have to raise up the land.  
>> To make sure it is addressed how they would like it our motion is to bring back the feasibility to not allow the land to be raised.  
>>TROY KENT: I will second it if staff can come back and give us their analysis.  
>>CHAIR: For debate or questions, either one. Let me say this before I call on you Don, I'm not sure we can finish this with all of us taking five. What we need right now is back and forth to try to get solutions that we all want to see.  So until somebody calls me out on it I'm going to be leading it with everyone, Don Dempsey.  
>>DON DEMPSEY: I don't know who is policing this but basically can I ask Ben, I'm sorry Ben.  I don't want to interrupt.
>>DAVID SANTIAGO: It is still his birthday for 20 minutes.
>>DON DEMPSEY: These birthdays and things you allocated, are they talking about that very issue about filling in wetlands, is that any part of the studies?  
>>SPEAKER: You can model the impacts to wetlands and the floodplain so if you take an area that is low-lying and raise it up you can model what that does to the surrounding properties and take a look at that. If that is a concern. If you know they take a look at future land use and if there is low-lying areas that have a future land use that there will be a possibility for development you can see what impacts that has if those areas were to be elevated.
>>DON DEMPSEY: The sum of my question is are these basin studies going to tell us one thing about the problems in Orange city versus the problems in DeLand with Taylor Road, are they going to have different?
>> We are going to drill down on as Mr. Santiago said well when we are looking at these areas and we've spoken to folks and they have different issues going on in different areas. You want to look at those areas and find out the specific problem and to your point the solution might be different in those different areas even though they experienced flooding.
>>DON DEMPSEY: Wouldn't it be prudent to wait for those studies to come in?  
>>SPEAKER: I think as a matter of policy when it comes to not filling in the wetlands we already have the avoidance and mitigation rules so clearly that's a policy decision. I don't know if basin study would influence that decision one way or the other. Anytime you fill in a low-lying area we have storage and avoiding or minimizing it, things like that. I would say policy decisions like that and the legality of whether or not you can prevent any sort of fill being placed for development purposes, I don't think those descriptions need to wait for a basic study.
>>CHAIR: Jake Johansson.
>>JAKE JOHANSSON: Because words get bandied about here I just want to make sure I am aware, I guess Clay will have to tell me, maybe not.  You said wetlands.  And we talk about wetlands. As I understand it wetland is something that's designated.  My neighbors back home right now because he emptied his pool is wetland.  But it is not a wetland. When we have these discussions about can't fill in the wetlands I want to make sure we are talking about the same thing. There is designated wetlands, designated uplands. It changes, it gets looked at all the time but I don't want somebody's back acre that got wet because of a torrential downpour to be considered that was wetland. You can't fill.  So let's make sure we are talking apples and apples when we go through that discussion.  
>>CHAIR: Mr. Santiago.
>>DAVID SANTIAGO: We will get into a lot of different conversations here but with that I think we have been given direction and I move we adjourn.
>>CHAIR: Can we vote on the motion on the table?  
>>DAVID SANTIAGO: I call the question, I will reverse it and then move that we adjourn.
>>CHAIR: All in favor of the motion on the floor to proceed.
>>DAVID SANTIAGO: The motion was ... 
>>CHAIR: We got that one.
>>DAVID SANTIAGO: To research your thoughts.  
>>CHAIR: All in favor say aye. Any opposed. The motion carries 7-0. No closing comments.  We have a motion to adjourn. I would like to ask staff quick question. One of the speakers, I think it was Chelsea said 2009 study for the Timucua Farms Rd., Village rural community has to be redone, is that true?  
>>SPEAKER: I will let Ben take that, that's a myth that's out there. Projects could be done from that study. There were projects recommended that were on private property that we could not do.  Or were cost prohibitive.
>>DON DEMPSEY: What Mr. Recktenwald said that it's the B 21 canal study which would be one of the first ones we are looking at and we are not just looking at that specific area but the entire basin. We can take a look at that and see.  
>>DON DEMPSEY: One of the recommendations was swap out a double box culvert. There was a minimum amount of gain we would get from that versus flow to cost of construction.
>>SPEAKER: Plus we put the box culvert in in a previous study.  So again, the projects were done that could get done.  That's why we are going to go with a new look at things.  
>>CHAIR: Okay.  Did you actually make a motion to adjourn?  
>>DAVID SANTIAGO: I will do it a second time Mr. chair.
>>CHAIR: We are going to take this up probably every meeting from here on out in one way or another. Any other councilmember have something to offer?  JP, are you going to get liquored up now?  We are adjourned at 11:22.