>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: We will get started in 60 seconds.  It's good to see everybody this morning.  We almost have a full house.  We will call the August 05, 2025 Volusia County Council meeting to order at 9:06 AM.  And just to give you a quick rundown on how we start, and just a minute I will ask you to stand for the invocation, the Pledge of Allegiance.  You can do that if you care to.  I hope you do.  I invocation this morning will be by Pastor Jessee Jarvis from Christ Church in Daytona Beach.  If you are part of a faith group who would like to participate in the invocations we have before our meetings, you are welcome to do that.  Please just send an email to KGreen.  The K and then Green.  That is Kris over there and she will get you set up to do that.  All faith groups are welcome.  So if you would stand with me now for the invocation.  Pastor Jessee, please come forward.  

>> PASTOR JESSEE JARVIS: Good morning.  Let's pray.  Father God, we thank you for this day, we thank you for life and the breath and our lungs.  Thank you for each person who is here participating in our local government.  Thank you for advocates and business owners, citizens, and our County Council members and County employees.  God, we Thank you that you have instituted governments among men for the reporting of good and the punishment of evil. God, we pray today would result in good decisions that are good for those in our County that would be honoring to you and would bring justice to those in need.  I pray you provide wisdom and direction for each of the councilmembers on the decisions that are made, and I thank you.  Thank you we have this opportunity to speak, to be heard and to work together.  Thank you for your love for us, your commitment well ordered society.  Thank you for the gift of your son Jesus.  It is in his name we pray, amen.  
>>> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Krista, would you call the role, please?  

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: Here.  

>> TROY KENT: Here.

>> MATT REINHART: Here.

>> DANNY ROBINS: Here.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Here.

>> DON DEMPSEY: Here.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Here.  Thank you very much.  We have any public participation?  I will call your name in the order they came in and when I do if he would come to the podium.  Make sure there is a microphone near your mouth so we can all hear you and the millions of people listening can hear you.  And just tell us if you would where you are from and the County so you are represented of your nose you are in their district.  You don't have to give your full address for safety reasons.  You will have three minutes to talk about anything that pertains to the County that we will be able to take action on a later date.  Please keep it respectful.  You have a First Amendment right.  I just ask you would handle that respectfully and respect those all in the room and those listening in.  Nobody likes to go first, but Mike, you are a first today.  You have three minutes. 

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: Good morning.  Mike from Boca Farms Village.  I'm here to talk about something, a project that will come before you probably not today.  It is a project you can finally do something about.  It's in the County, is not in the city.  You've the power to change it to make it what it needs to be.  It may not come before you today but you will talk about it soon and a lot of people will talk about it today and other days as well.  I'm talking about a small pieces of land, one of the few untouched by time.  It runs along -- between first Creek fly in a quiet place in the country.  It's home to thousands of 100 year Oaks.  It's pristine.  It has Indian burial mounds.  It is an important breathing, living piece of creek that hosts abundant wildlife, it holds storm water, briefs in CO2 and exhales oxygen.  Hold hundreds of millions of gallons of storm water and sends it underground to recharge our aquifer.  You will have the chance to prevent this amazing gift of God from being bulldozed, drained, filled and built upon to another 200 single-family homes.  Once this land is gone it will be gone forever.  It will shed its storm water onto someone else's property.  And it will be up to them to pick up the pieces without help from anybody in this room because it's happening all over Volusia County.  The local temperature will rise by a few degrees as the asphalt and the roofs absorb the radiant heat of the sun and radiate it out at night.  The night sky will be dimmer because of the ambient light added.  And all those trees that have lived for hundreds of years will be knocked over, chipped up, and sent to the landfill.  That land is gone, it's gone.  And it will be homes, more homes.  So I am asking you the County Council in your wisdom I am asking County staff, I am asking the PLDRC and anyone who would listen to stop Creek Crossing.  Creek Crossing does not need to be developed.  That land needs to be preserved in perpetuity.  It's a gift from God.  I know it's private property but there are better things we can do with it.  We can purchase it with Volusia forever, ECHO funds, Florida forever, whatever we need to do we need to preserve that land in perpetuity.  Once it's gone it is gone and we know what Volusia County it is becoming clear it's becoming a Fort Lauderdale.  If you look at any road the trees are being bulldozed, apartments and homes are going up.  In 2025 we will have a record number of building permits once again issued in Volusia County thank you for listening.  Please do something to preserve this and other developments as we move through time.  God bless you.  Thank you.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you for your comments.  John Albert?  Spoke good morning.  My name is Jan Albert and I live in a quiet place in the country.  I have been a Volusia County resident for 45 years any real estate appraiser for 53 years with a specialty in hydrology.  I'm also going to speak about the Creek Crossing proposal even though I know it is not on the agenda today.  He will be discussing it over the next few weeks.  I have never seen and 50 years a single property that was more connected to all the other properties hydrologic we than this one.  We have the basin pushing southward and then the leaper preserve being impacted with the Pioneer so all of the pressure is moving to the east across this area.  As Mike mentioned, many have been going since the 1600s and even though there's only a 100 foot environmental easement, that is in no way sufficient.  This property is fully treated and if you cut them down the root systems are all interconnected in the soil so even if you don't cut the once at the Creek they will Diane be impacted and then you will have mudslides.  For instance, the 130 homes that would be proposed would usually create about 130 million gallons of storm runoff for every five inch rain.  I have data for 50 years of how many rains we have like that.  We average six or seven not including hurricanes.  It is that and the fact it is the wildlife corridor from the wildlife management.  The animals, crossed from Sand Creek into the Spruce Creek basin.  So once again it's nonrenewable.  And can never be brought back.  It is a shame it is one persons property, but literally it will affect every road, every bridge and every property east all the way is built as proposed.  So I am asking you to keep those items in line and not allow this destruction of a natural resource in a federally protected waterway.  Thank you.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you for your comments.  Connie Colby?  Okay.  Catherine?  You are passing too?  Spoke good morning.  I'm here to express serious concern about what appears to be misuse of funds allocated through Volusia echo and forever programs.  Specifically proposed or ongoing use of the funds to develop a motocross facility.  These programs were created with a clear mandate to protect and enhance our counties environmental culture historic amount of resources Volusia forever was designed to preserve ecosystems for, support quality life and permits a benefit the entire county rooted in sustainability, access and preservation using the funds to fundamental he violates the spirit and intent about program!  Motocross facilities are high-impact of elements with environmental and wildlife impacts.  They do not align with conservation goals they do not serve the same public benefit as historic preservation sites designed for passive use in environmental education.  This decision if it proceeds around public trust are taxpayers approved it with the expectation that almost be used responsibly and with transparency, not read directed are high-impact recreational developments that contradict programs purpose or find a pet object of Don Dempsey.  I want to bring your attention to comments made in the July 10, 2025 echo board meeting.  Motocross track concerns were discussed by some board members.  On board member whose name I do not know said I continue to be concerned about motocross.  The board continued to say echo has not reviewed the project staff replied it was sent to you with the other projects a motocross was added in June 2020 fourth.  The board member replied review in place and put in it was not reviewed only presented us information.  Board member made a motion to go record they do not recommend the motocross project.  Volusia County resident spoke to the board in reference to transparency concerned and legacy projects.  I encourage the public and all of you to listen to the meeting.  Want to direct you to the mission statement located on the website paragraph three in part as I will run out of time.  With the passage in 2020 Volusia County will be added to the protected conservation lands.  These have been acquired while allowing passive migration by the resident and other residents wishing to visit them.  Passive recreation includes hiking, biking, birdwatching wildlife observation.  Preserve the integrity the programs, direct expenditures should not be used for projects that do not reflect the best interest of Volusia County residents regards the council to reconsider and help in the expenditure of echo or Volusia forever from store this motocross project.  Full transparency is owed to the public.  I also agree with the Cross Creek thing.  That land needs to be preserved.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you for your comments.  Adam Maker?  

>>  Good morning.  First of all, I hate public speaking so if I am hear their's a good reason.  My reason for being here is because I want to get something on the agenda and I was told to come to you guys.  What that is his financial crimes facilitated for the Volusia County clerks office involving pretty much all levels of law enforcement as far as I can tell from my investigation.  My website, I would encourage everyone to go there.  The website is Volusia truth.com.  I have almost 70 victims on my website a financial crime!  The evidence is so incriminating my site is blocked by Governor DeSantis service and even our local representative, federal representative servers.  Outside of that, I want to give you depth of how I brought in.  My main goal is to get this on the agenda because in 2021 I had almost perfect credit.  Prior to Volusia County reporting judgments to my credit profile.  To give you an example, I had $100,000 and limits spread against five different cards and in 2022 all the cards got reduced down to less than $15,000.  At that time I didn't know what was going on but I was researching, investigating, the results of which you can find on the website.  In the process I filed a federal lawsuit that is now in the appellate process but I was able to impose Sheriff Mike Chip Wood and Sergeant Jason.  Both fabricated information throughout but mainly Sergeant Jason who I questioned him about purchasing 1.6 million dollars with the properties which appeared to be purchased in cash.  I have one address correct in one wrong.  He claimed, I know now is not the time for that but he claims while under oath he did not own the properties are purchased them.  He claimed nothing to do with any properties which is a lie.  The next date when I depose Chipwood and gave me his word.  He said, under oath they have the paperwork.  If he did in fact lie he said he would reprimand him.  Nothing.  That was months ago when nothing ever happened.  I personally believe this is high level organized crime.  Why else would might website be -- I contacted the FDLE and FBI many times.  Let me take it a step further.  On top of that I was placed on some sort of a terrorist list because when all this was happening I was in shock and left the country, left the state.  Every time I left the state and country was having to go through a special security line.  It was hell, simply put.  Father inherited $30 million of real estate and used that money and went on a narcissistic tirade and worked with a bunch of corrupt officers in the results of my investigation can be located on the website.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Okay.  Thank you.  That is a lot to unpack.  Peggy Hill?  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: Good morning.  My name is Peggy Hill.  I live on Miller Road.  Miller Lake is still full.  It is still in my front yard.  Not only is it fuller than when it was at a lower level, it is fuller than it has ever been in while the land and other areas have received a lot of rain, we have gotten very little in our area that we see reduction in the lake level.  It is smelly and overgrown with lily pads.  The 2017 permit given to Royal Oaks with no objection needs to be revoked.  It was not followed.  The county can and should ask for the permit to be provoked.  A drainage pipe line has been created for acres and acres of storm water to go into Miller Lake away of unnamed Lake, Royal Oaks and Tremont Drive.  I brought a copy of one example of this.  If you slide down to the second page for me?  There we go.  Highlighted in green, this is a notice of decision made by St. Johns River water management District on May 23, 2025 for a stand alone ER in Orange City.  Noticed the receiving body of water is unnamed Lake.  Why?  And why would you be okay with this.  Notice all the businesses.  If you go to the map, I'm sorry.  You can see where the E.R.A. is.  You can see unnamed Lake and Miller Lake across 1792.  That is a long way and yet goose Lake is over to the right not far away.  But as we saw the decision is made.  The noticed the receiving body is unnamed Lake.  So along with the responsibility the County also owns property on Miller Lake.  It is okay with you to take on acres and acres of other people storm water?  Notice how many businesses are between the ER and unnamed Lake.  All their extra storm water is going to unnamed Lake.  I don't understand it.  It doesn't make any sense.  When goose Lake is much closer or keep their own stormwater on their own property.  How is it getting from the ER over to unnamed Lake?  It's going up.  It doesn't make sense.  In the past St. Johns River water management District have stated it must have requests from the County in order to take action.  They also said they are willing to help the County regarding the flooding of Miller Lake.  Please counsel, do something now.  The rains are coming.  Ask for the 2017 permit to be revoked.  Ask for new permits to be turned down and stop the flooding of Miller Lake.  Thank you.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  County manager George Recktenwald?  

>> GEORGE RECKTENWALD: Normally we don't respond but I wanted to clarify something from the picture that was up there.  I could have been speak if you need but the unnamed break she is referring to is the on wrong unnamed leg.  Many are called by permit unnamed Lake and so to relieve her concern, Ben went out and investigated that.  As is be the normal case, they don't allow people to move from basin to basin.  They are not moving it to that.  Are moving into another unnamed pond in the basin that has eventually to goose Lake.  Can you pull that up real quick?  

>> SPEAKER: So as Mr. Recktenwald said, I reviewed the drainage application by the emergency room, freestanding emergency room at the southeast corner of the intersection of Saxon enterprise.  They have it on the map out the correct location.  But the system importance, it is being permitted.  Not that.  I'm sorry.  I sent you an email.  But they are required to not hold the volume on site from a 100 year, 24 hour storm event which is the 11.4 drainage event over 24 hours.  They are actually discharging less water off-site in the post-development according to their calculations on the predevelopment calculations.  St. John's requires an overflow.  This is the location here and in the upper left-hand corner is Miller Lake.  Basically what happens is St. John's requires an overflow should the storm event exceed the capacity of the pond and that overflow is being proposed for discharge into the right-of-way directly to the west of that property.  From there it flows north and is collected into County stormwater system that flows east alongside Saxon toward Veterans Memorial Parkway so it is not even within the basin.  Any of the overflow that could potentially would occur would not flow toward the lake.  As I said before, they have done the drainage calculation.  They are required by St. John's and Orange City which match Volusia County requirements if they were to be developing.  It requires them to hold any additional volume on site greater than what is discharged in the predevelopment.  They are actually doing that.  And others with a foot freeboard in the pond.  We hold that water and they still have an additional foot which is what we typically require as well so they should be holding considerably more water on the site and the predevelopment condition.  If they have an overflow situation that flows east.  As Mr. Recktenwald said, multiple ponds in the area have no name therefore they are typically referred to as unnamed.  

>>  DAVID SANTIAGO: May I ask a quick question.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Yes, councilmember Santiago.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: This project happening in Orange City jurisdiction, according to the calculations been proposed by the engineers, they are going to retain more water out of the development then in the current status of the land.  Is that what the projections are saying?  

>> SPEAKER: Slightly less discharge in terms of volume and they have to maintain, during the storm event they can't discharge at a higher rate.  That is to the 100 year, 24 hour storm event.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: And in the event there is an outfall that exceeds their capacity, is not going to flow toward middle Miller Lake.

>> SPEAKER: Correct.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Who was the engineer.

>> SPEAKER: I believe it was HDR but don't hold me to that.  I don't remember exactly.  

>>  Just to point out the Miller Lake elevation has dropped how much?  

>> SPEAKER: This morning is over 10 inches since the middle of June.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Any other questions?  This is important.  It is important enough we stop the public comment to deal with it.  These people that live on Miller Lake and Shady Lane are here every meeting.  Several of us have been out there and looked at the property.  I think it is the right thing to do to stop and comment.  I appreciate you doing that.  Probably don't agree with what you have said.  Have you had this discussion with any of the Miller Lake people?  

>> SPEAKER: No.  This is some research we have done being aware of the potential development as being a concern for Miller Lake and we wanted to make clear where the water was going and what the engineer is doing.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  Any other questions for Ben?  I don't see any.  Thank you.  Gary Singleton?  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: My name is Gary Singleton.  I am a resident of District 3. I'm here to speak about the creek crossing PUD.  From 8000 feet up and dissolve he is developing this property is crazy.  The trees are so thick you can't see the ground or creek.  A single mature oak can consume 100 gallons of water a day entrance barrier 40,000 gallons of water a year.  Imagine the amount of rainwater currently being held by this property allowed to absorb into the ground to refresh our drinking water and pulled up into the thick growth of trees and plants to transpire.  Before producing any runoff into Spruce Creek.  Increase crossing development will destroy an ecological system capable of holding and absorbing and transpiring millions of gallons of rainwater.  We are going to replace the perfect system with impermeable surfaces and grossly inadequate retention ponds.  The banks of Spruce Creek have a history of overflowing and flooding properties.  The only people who would want to destroy the perfect natural system replacing it with impermeable surfaces intention ponds are driven by greed.  This is a challenge for this council to listen to Volusia County citizens and not the development lobby.  
This clearly represent us or them.  Every vote is a demonstration of whose side you are on.  Thank you.  [Applause] 

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you for your comments.  Dave Kremer?  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: Dave Kremer Mallard Lake discussing the flooding there and thank you for the previous discussion.  The new Orange City building permit goes into a different unnamed lake.  Not the unnamed like that flows into Mallard Lake.  As far as the going down 10 inches if we are talking vertical, 10 inches of land than that is true but 10 inches of water going down is not what we show here this is regarding the 2017 Royal Oaks permit to have that revoked.  Last month's July 22 meeting there was a discussion at the end of that meeting I just want to clarify a few things.  Mr. Brower, thank you for noting the Miller links residence to come here and speak and we do get up and leave.  But as he mentioned, we do go home and watch the rest of the meeting and wait to see if there is any discussion on Miller Lake.  We do that because we are not able to talk and have a discussion here.  At the end of the meeting on July 22 Mr. Recktenwald was asked about Miller Lake.  Is it one of the residence is not a home, it's a trail just want to ensure you and is a home.  If it was a trailer I would hook my truck up to it and move it 30 feet.  It is over a thousand single-family manufactured mobile home.  The previous owner was there decades and we have almost been there for a decade.  Our homestead exemption was on that.  Were in the process of changing it since the home is uninhabitable.  Mr. Recktenwald also noted by definition the residence was not flooded.  FEMA came out.  They declared it was flooded so by definition it was flooded.  They also noted they couldn't do anything because it is a man-made problem that is related to the 2017 Royal Oaks permit.  There is discussion on what the St. Johns River water management is responsible for or Fdot are having to work with Orange City and that is all understandable.  As you will see on your website of what the county jurisdiction is.  We will read the first sentence.  Volusia County is responsible for stormwater management, drainage maintenance and flood mitigation efforts in unincorporated areas.  All of us are unincorporated on Miller Lake.  Shady Ln., Villa Road, Alice Drive.  This is all unincorporated and that is why we continue to come here and ask for your help.  Especially sending that permit.  Thank you.  [Applause] 

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you for your comments.  Catherine Levinson?  

>>  PUBLIC SPEAKER: Good morning everybody.  I just want to go through a few things to remind you have talked to you about all the storm water from the west side of Orange City coming into Miller Lake.  I'm sorry.  Catherine Levinson, Shady Ln., Miller Lake.  On the storm water from orange cities intentionally flooding us.  We already know that we have established that I want to remind you that we have a 100 year gravesite from the Civil War on our property and nobody cares.  Also, I told you about your animals.  They can't drink the water because it is so polluted.  They get sick and vomit.  Also, we are a wildlife corridor for bears, turtles, bats, deer and we are being flooded and it has killed thousands of oak trees that are 150 years old.  They are falling over.  Our Lake is still flooded.  I appreciate what Mr. Bartlett said.  I don't agree with it.  The lake maybe has gone down this way but thought this way.  We flooded 19 feet after Milton.  19 feet.  And we are still flooded.  It will be a year in October and we are still flooded.  Mr. Santiago, Mr. Recktenwald was correct.  We do watch these shows from our home every single time.  It is easier at home because I can go to the bathroom, put it on pause, take my dogs out, go on a trip and come back.  We do watch.  I see everything that happens the reason we leave this because we can't answer.  You put a person up like Mr. Bartlett last time.  I have great respect for him, but he cherry picked everything he said.  He didn't put down actual facts that I believe, he put down cherry picked things.  Is easier for me to see it at home in their paper at my T.V. then to be here where I can't even talk so that is why we leave.  I watch every minute of it and so do we lot of people.  It's amazing how the text go back and forth between everyone after those meetings.  Mr. Recktenwald, I heard your solutions.  I just want to know when you will start them.  You have solutions.  I heard you.  And some of them very good.  Problem is you don't want to start them until we flood again.  We are already flooded.  What's going to happen when we drown?  I rather fix it first.  But thank you.  Let's get the moving on that.  We have a lot of funds and we know you have millions and millions of dollars.  Let's see you do something.  Thank you to Mr. Brower for sticking up for us.  You are the only one that did and I appreciate it.  Thank you so much.  Have a good night.  [Applause] 

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Denisha Stearns?  Do I have your name right?  

>>  PUBLIC SPEAKER: My name is Denisha Stearns and I live in Sam's estates as part of larger Touro Street community.  I am here to today to talk about the rezoning application.  Also known as Cross Creek.  I want to ask you and tell you how you can be heroes.  You can be heroes to the people of Volusia County, you can be heroes to everyone here in the form.  I heard it said the Council has no choice on what a property owner does with their property.  I disagree.  You get to choose by the rezoning application in the permitting process what happens.  He will get the opportunity to vote on the rezoning application based on the recommendation from the PLDRC.  And it can end in triumph or tragedy.  Tragedy?  How would that happen?  Wouldn't it benefit the County, and houses equals new property tax revenue, sales tax revenue and maybe a few more people to the local workforce?  Tragedy is because it is the belief many people in the forum that rezoning the parcels us RPUD would open the door for housing density that would create more of a flood and flood threat to the existing homes as well as to the new proposed homes.  It is just not acceptable.  The increase in traffic would increase the threat to our walkers and bikers.  If we flood the property values not only decrease but according to one of the gentleman who just spoke, there may not be any recourse with FEMA to recoup on the loss.  This would be a tragedy to our people.  It would be a tragedy if we lost confidence in our County Council.  Who proposed to speak for us to make decisions.  But this could also indent in triumph.  Not in the creation of a development project like we did something that beat the odds and we thought no one else could do.  As he rose protecting your county, it's communities preserving the nature of the rural lifestyle in this particular area defending what can't defend itself.  The ecosystem of the Spruce Creek waterway.  You can triumph by refusing to allow any more pollutants to threaten this water weight which is protected water in the United States.  And a riparian protection zone.  You can preserve the recreational value of the Spruce Creek in this waterway.  You can triumph as heroes by protecting your own comprehensive plan.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  Thank you very much for your comments.  Don Lombardi?  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: Well, good morning.  My name is Don Lombardi and I reside at Riverwood plantation subdivision located along Spruce Creek.  I have with me a letter from our HOA president saying our HOA is indeed against Creek Crossing development.  I would like to submit that to somebody.  Is that correct?  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Give it to Carissa.  Thank you.  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: I have before retiring as a man consultant in the state of Florida for 30 years in helping large landowners, developers of all sizes, commercial and residential.  All the major homebuilders.  I have never seen a project that has so many things wrong with it.  And made no sense at all is a viable residential development site.  Regardless of all the wonderful things that have been said about environmental impacts and all those other things and how terrible it would be to damage those things, my purpose today is to say my opinion with the bridge that has to be built across there, which will cost tens of millions of dollars to fit the requirement that it be one foot out over the floodplain on an entire span which is a requirement of the state of Florida and therefore this County as well.  This concept plan is so vague.  You don't know what you are improving.  I don't know what you are improving at this point.  It is my understanding that QDR planned unit developments under site plan specific zoning.  This is a concept plan in the development order is written so vaguely you can put anything on their as long as it is residential.  You can modify the sizes, you can do all those things.  That development order is baloney in my opinion.  Needs to really be tied down.  The other thing is, I'm running up five seconds.  I'm going to say thank you.  We are going to be around for a long time, going to look at everything carefully and professionally and you will be seeing us a lot at the time.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  Will be make sure we get a copy of that?  John Nicholson.  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: John Nicholson, Daytona Beach.  Every Sunday I go to a dozen city locations to check on them, see if there is any damage so I can tell David Monday morning there has been a problem or whatever.  When I get to the island the new Memorial, this was laying on the ground.  Rather than have somebody steal it I took it figuring I will bring it here, give it to whoever has it and put it back on.  Within two days it was replaced.  If you look at the back of it it is just tacked on.  I found several others that are loose.  Some way of making these permanent.  Is there a way of placing them.  It is a bit cheesy.  If you look at the memorial it is solid as a rock.  This does not fit that so I'm wondering if we can put something more substantial.  If not, make it more solid so it can't be pulled off.  Secondly, if you look at the flanks, one is sort of kind of not fated.  All the others are almost faded beyond recognition.  When I grew up you did not fly fated flags, and they are replaced.  Am asking you to take a look at those and if you have to upgrade the quality.  It has not been that long.  It has only been two or three months and flags are not meant to fade that quickly.  Also, I want to bring up halfpenny sales tax.  We are not made of money.  If we put in a penny sales tax, it's an automatic 30 or 40 percent grant to anything we do because outside there is patent to risk 30 to 40 percent of what the sales taxes.  The federal government is getting less and less grants.  We have defined other ways to make sure we get done what we have to do.  Especially flooding.  Mallard Lake has been here forever.  Midtown in Daytona Beach has been around for forever.  All the others are coming into play so I'm asking you to think about the penny.  I realized I read an article.  It was 44 million we would have raised for halfpenny sales tax.  It is now 68 million for halfpenny sales tax.  That is $150 million a year to help us with infrastructure and flooding.  I think we should really look at it.  Lastly, I want to talk about the city of Daytona Beach.  It is something you will have to pay attention to.  I will talk more about it.  I'm running out of time.  But that design was 1970.  That was 50 years ago 
we have an opportunity 10 years from now.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: John, would you go to the back of the room and see Tim Bailey?  

>> SPEAKER: Tim Bailey Recreation Director.  To give everyone an answer.  The installer was taking off the temporary markers.  Those were temporary and they wanted to see if they would be easy to come off and if they were without pulling paint off.  He was going to reapply the permanent markers the next day so that was one of the markers where he pulled off and re-fixed and came back the next day and put the permanent markers down.  That's why they were there.  The permanent markers are in the site.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Which Memorial was that?  

>> SPEAKER: The veterans memorial in Daytona.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  Thank you John.  Jake Johansson.

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: Quickly, we shouldn't arrest John for removing government property?  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: He does have stolen property in his hands.  

>> SPEAKER: I was going to ask him to find a letter A and a T.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: We are also available for questions ourselves for things like this.  Okay.  Jeremy?  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: Jeremy, I am the president of Volusia County firefighters local 37 54.  I'm here for the fire fund and the importance of the flat millage rate.  We have a social media following.  25,000 people.  Mainly citizens in the County in this topic has been getting a lot of traction.  They are all supporting us.  Feel free to read the comments on your own for a couple asked me to do some convincing I did what most middle aged guys do.  I go to the pickle ball court to clear my head.  I ended up with this 81-year-old female named Joyce, a big fan of us.  We turn to our opponents and it was a former county councilman.  He wasn't a big fan of us in the decisions negatively impacted us for many years to come.  After we beat them he came up to me and surprisingly made comments about the past and he seemed a little remorseful about the decisions he had to make.  The moment reminded me of this counsel.  You guys are a good counsel.  One willing to work together, listen, and change the course when it is the right thing to do.  It reminded me of the times it was the unit who went out and lobbied the public.  Not for pay raises but to bring prevent four stations shutting down through in our system supported it and this is the community commitment hard-earned and worth protecting for today we have a chance to keep moving forward.  George has done a lot of good things for fire and while I don't agree with everything he does, he has been good to us.  Let's face it, he answers to you guys and the staff testy when he's doing his job trying to build a conservative budget but I think there are a few questions he could ask her do the fire trucks go out of service leaving areas uncovered because we are riding on an ambulance?  Does it happened two percent of the time?  It doesn't matter.  The one time is too many if it is your emergency and does the Council accept that risk?  Do we have potential unfunded liabilities?  If times get hard can we pull from a general fund?  Can we improve the service delivery and quality of life to citizens by using a flat rate?  Can we do this by adding more firefighters?  We are the only ones are required to be paramedics in this County.  This is about keeping your fire Department strong in writing not just for today but tomorrow.  Whatever this counsel decides, I want our citizens to know our commitment never changes.  We will come for you.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you for your comments.  Stephanie Cox?  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: Good morning chair and County Council members.  I don't, a whole lot but I do send a few emails.  I started out, I wanted to mention wanted you to go with the rollback on taxes because our economy and paychecks haven't kept up with each other.  When that does come up I would like you to consider the rollback on that.  That sitting here listening and hearing a lot more problems.  I am hearing about Miller Lake again.  I am hearing about Cross Creek.  I agree with a lot of people who have spoke on that.  We have to start protecting and not let our oak trees go away.  We lost so many of them.  I think Ed Trotter had what a thousand recently?  That they agreed to take away.  You can't replace those in our lifetime and our water recharge needs them.  Besides that, they are beautiful.  And lastly I want to talk about SB 180.  I know it is on the agenda.  We need to group together with all the cities to join in and amend that bill.  That Bill is taking away our home rule.  It's not right.  They don't know what goes on in our communities.  We do.  They are our citizens.  I have been in Volusia County since 1978 so we really need to consider all these things.  I've written emails, I got answers from a couple but not all of you.  I don't know why you can't answer my emails.  That is why I am here today.  I'm here to talk about what's going on and correct it.  Thank you so much.  I appreciate the time.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you and that concludes the public comments for the morning.  You also have an opportunity to speak on any item and then we have another public comment period at the end and before we move to the next item, Michael Dyer?  

>> SPEAKER: Thank you.  Just for the benefit of those who spoke, I know they spoke on an upcoming project that will come before you as I understand it will be a quasijudicial hearing.  You have not responded which I think is good.  Basically said as a judge upon the criteria that time if you do get contacted that would be half something you would optics disclose or just bring a copy of it.  We can make it part of the record.  But you will have a hearing if the project proceeds at some point.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: We don't have an ideal yet when that will be because it has to go to PLDRC you and it is not yet scheduled for their?  It is still in the planning stage?  

>> SPEAKER: Yes, you are correct.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: All right.  Thank you.  Councilman Santiago?  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I was contemplating if I wanted to comment.  Mr. Dyer, thank you for sharing the good legal advice.  To the folks from that community I have no idea what the project is.  It is not before us, no memos, nothing us, Fort Meade.  I can't opine on it in my opinion on it but it is important for you all, our legal obligation because it is a quasijudicial Tampa hearing we act as judges.  We can't and shouldn't comment on our thoughts on the specific budgets because we poisoned the well and put the County and huge legal liability at that point.  Our jobs if done properly is a way for the hearing to come before us with the facts, the testimony from the public, the testimony from the applicant and judge at that point what we are going to do.  If you don't hear commentary for members of the Council I want you to understand we are following are legally required process to give everybody justice and due process to appeal to their government.  Thank you Mr. chair.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Okay.  Not takes us to item 1 at 10:01 AM the approval of the agenda and I would like to request one change and that is to move item 17, which is the Senate Bill 180, to move it up to item 3A so that would come after the motocross discussion before item number four.  The reason is because we have a very full menu today.  Very full agenda and I want to make sure we get to it.  There are people here for that discussion.  

>> SPEAKER: Clarification please?  I am fine making that motion.  I am a rule follower and access presentations.  Nevermind.  That is other business.  I withdraw what I was going to say.  Chairman, I will make the motion to approve the agenda as presented with the caveat of moving item 17 to 3A.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Motion made by Troy Kent.  Is there a second?  I just need a second to move this up so we get to it today.  We can't afford to put it off for another two weeks.  No second?  It is a simple request.  Okay.  

>>  I will seconded chair.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  Matt Reinhart makes the second.  Any discussion?  David Santiago.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I get it but I don't see the urgency.  We have several things on here that, I don't want to say are not important but just as important.  I just don't see the need to move it.  Us Troy started out on a rule space, we have a process.  Means to be extenuating circumstances to make changes and I don't see it work I want to get to it but I don't see the justification for making the change.  I know you are concerned it may not meet the deadline today.  We could extend if we so choose to.  If we didn't get to it the legislature is not meeting until October.  We have time.  This is a proposed amendment.  There is no rush to make an adjustment.  Of the legislature must meeting next month I would say let's make sure we are getting it in.  From a rules and procedure perspective I don't see the urgency to make the change.  I C-8 stick to the agenda and we will get to it when we get to it.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: I am following the rules number one.  Number two is there is a huge urgency from the public.  I am hearing it every day.  And yes, it's true the session doesn't start until November.  Urgency for me is the County attorneys have done the work.  They have done really good work and made simple, clear, easy to understand changes that helps us retain local control.  This is about local control.  I'm not willing to give it up.  I don't Thank you are either.  The urgency is that gives us between today.  It allows the legal staff to begin the process of working with our lobbyists, working with John Booker, working with all of us and the public in working with every city.  These cities are asking us please do something.  I heard from the city of Edgewater last night, please help us.  To me I think the urgency, I don't want to see if put off for another two weeks.  Mr. Kent.

>> TROY KENT: I made the motion because you asked, chairman, and you are in the unique position you can't make motions given your position on the selected body.  And I would have made the motion if any of you asked.  I am the guy who is going to try to help you get there but Mr. Santiago, you bring up a good point.  Going to vote to do this but if it gets voted down I think we will get to it today.  I'm not worried about it.  I will make a motion to do the agenda as presented.  Either way I am good to go.  I wanted you all to know.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I'm okay voting on that.  It is more of a procedural thing.  I think we are going to get to it.  I don't have the three alarm science siren going off.  The chairs leadership took us to this point.  Made a motion to do an amendment.  So it is not the topic if the vote is up I will vote for it.  I am a purist in the perspective of if we are going to make changes let's make a justification so I am prepared to vote.  

>> DON DEMPSEY: 21 of the things I admire about you is you are consistent and you are a procedure guy.  He said that since the first meeting and I love that you hold true to it.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: The whole item 1 is so we can do things like this if we need to.  This is procedure.  There's no improper procedure here.  For me, for the public there is a tremendous sense of urgency.  So we will see.  Vice chair Reinhart.

>> MATT REINHART: I second it before we go any further.  I am fine either way.  I think we will get to it also.  Creatures of habit, we have moved items up before.  There was a large gathering of individuals here and we have moved items up before.  Of course those meetings used to go until 3:00in the morning.  And we do have rules for that now but I'm fine with it.  I wanted to make mention as to why.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you very much.  Krista, would you call the roll?  

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: No.  

>> TROY KENT: Yes.  

>> MATT REINHART: Yes.  

>> DANNY ROBINS: Yes.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Yes.  

>> DON DEMPSEY: Yes.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Yes.  Okay so the agenda is slightly modified.  Item 17 will be between three and four.  Thank you counsel.  I appreciate that.  Does anyone have an item they would like to pull from the consent agenda for a vote?  Councilman Robbins?  

>> DANNY ROBINS: Not for a vote but item C for comment.  Comment only.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Anyone else?  

>> SPEAKER: I make a motion to approve the consent agenda as amended.  

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: Second.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: A motion.  And the second was by Jake Johansson.  Any other questions?  All in favor say aye.  Any opposed?  The consent agenda past 7/0 and we will have a comment on item C. Do you need staff?  

>> DANNY ROBINS: Chair, the main purpose of this, I had questions from the public.  The pretty much talk about the mitigation plan and how it helps us in Volusia.  The strides we are making towards, our goals funding opportunities and so I would love to hear more about that from you guys so thank you so much.  

>> SPEAKER: Good morning counsel.  I am your County emergency director.  The local mitigation strategy is one of the required plans FEMA and the state puts forth to us we have to renew every five years.  This is the time.  One of the requirements in order to receive post-disaster mitigation funding like the grant program is to have approved LMS in place.  It has been approved by the state and FEMA as well so this puts us in a good position to make sure we are eligible for those funds and we are using those funds effectively.  The LMS committee, the local mitigation committee is the committee that decides the priorities and puts forth those things on the project list.  The representation is from all our communities across Volusia County and they decide on the projects.  The plan itself is reflective of what we deem to be important as far as strategies or processes by which we utilize the funds and we continue to strive to make Volusia County as resilient as possible.  That is a high level overview.  Is there something more specific I can answer for you?  

>> DANNY ROBINS: That was perfect.  This goes to show what we are doing in addition to everything else to make sure these projects are not just identified well-funded as well.  Appreciate you guys and all the hard work that you guys do.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Hold on.  Don't go anywhere.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I don't know if this was the responsibility and I apologize I didn't bring this up earlier.  In addition to that I want to thank the staff that put together the website on the flooding information.  That is huge.  For members of the public or don't know what I'm talking about, the County prepared the website that shows the details.  If George can give a quick synopsis of what is going to be available for the members of the public to see.  

>> SPEAKER: The main part is to show an effort what we are doing on a daily basis.  We are putting a lot more information about where our road and bridge are, what things are coming up because there is a general concern in the County that we are not doing anything.  And again, we are doing work as people are out there every day and doing what we do best.  Maintaining canals, upgrading types.  There are other larger capitol projects and planning.  Unfortunately I know people are not patient.  I don't blame them.  I'm not either in a lot of these cases but we have to do the proper permitting, planning, design in the world we live in today if you don't do that will come back to bite you later on.  We do that and it allows us to continue to get federal funding, funding from other sources.  But does translate into time.  
Our projects require partners and that only adds to it as well.  We are going to keep people updated.  

>> SPEAKER: What is the landing page?  Where should they go?  Be nine go to Volusia.org and we highlighted on one of the first pages.  Suzanne can update that.  

>> SPEAKER: An additional comment you may have noticed, we are starting a monthly stormwater newsletter delivered via email to those who wish to receive it and we are taking subscriptions to that newsletter.  I think it is on that website page as well and those of interest are welcome to follow us in the manner as well.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I urge the citizens to sign up for the newsletter, go to that website.  In today's world there is a Lotta fake news and they will see first hand from us with the County is doing.  When you hear something go to the source.  Reach out to anyone of us.  Sure we will get you answers.  But please, go to the source, ignore the social media fake news world.  Go to our website and hear firsthand.  I want to plug staff are highlighting all the work.  There is hundreds of millions of dollars dedicated that will be spent in the County to address many things, including probably thinks important to those here today or watching.  Thank you Mr. chair.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Councilman Johansson.

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: To kind I capitalize on what David is saying, and is not just the County projects.  It is geographically countywide.  We are starting to gather the city information too and put it in the website.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: That is a first time for us.  

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: We are talking about collaborative efforts and information, geographically coinciding with each other so we are not interfering with other peoples projects.  Maybe we can piggyback off of those for good things here get on that website.  We hear a lot sitting up here about I didn't know, I wasn't informed, how can I find out.  That website is going to be everything stormwater that we can come up with as long as the cities continue to participate in we have a clubhouse of folks willing to participate.  Thank you chairman.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  Thank you Danny for bringing that up.  We will move to item 3.  Staff needs direction on a development management options for an outdoor motorized recreation Park.  

>> BRADLEY BURBAUGH: Good morning.  Brad, director of community services.  Tim Bailey and I who is the director Parks and Recreation will tagteam the presentation.  Was a conference of briefing document and it coincides with the order of the slides today.  We are really focusing with the private public partnership on minimizing taxpayer risk while maximizing community benefit.  There's multiple viable pathways on how to get there and that's what we are going to present to you today.  Make a decision on whether to provide direction or not.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Brad?  Can you hold one second.  I was informed the Livelink for the meeting is not working.  I wanted to let them hear that in the back.  Go ahead.  

>> BRADLEY BURBAUGH: We are not going to go over every single slide of the presentation.  This is from the feasibility study but we hired to do.  Talking with professionals around the nation, this is what you need to have a regional and national event.  Two tracks for practice and tournament.  RV slips and support facilities.  We also have a strategic location and the one we are considering now on 44 next to the gun range.  If you look at development models what we are asking you is to look at development model and operational model for the facility.  So when we are looking at the development models it is a full public development.  Essentially each model has different risk tolerance levels and absent a private partnership does is transfer some of the risk to the private sector and we get benefits as well.  Private involvement typically reduces taxpayer exposure.  As you can see in the scenario.  The different scenarios and revenue potential increases the private sector expertise involved in the project as well.  When we are talking about the investment risk comparison, the private models transfer operational market risks to the project.  Operational expertise and the risk.  The County maintains the opportunities while reducing our financial exposure as you can see in the model and the land lease model provides a steady income with minimal investment.  That is where we would put the land lease out to bid and have someone develop the track and amenities.  You would see longer term leases 30, 40, 50 years.  So they have a return on their investment.  What does the process look like?  The process is outlined of Florida statutes and it's a different approach.  We are working with a consultant that is doing the Bennett Park.  What we do is essentially, I want to know what counsel goals are.  Is our goal to have a capitol investment in no operational support.  Would you like to provide them operational support going forward.  Do you wanted to be an economic development focus.  What is your expectation in terms of a financial return that's important as they look at partners.  What they will do is they have six different models.  Five on the slide rather.  They have a financial model for each of these.  If we go to the consultant since everyone to do private public partnership they will run the numbers based on the amount of money they are getting maybe from a public finance option.  Also sponsors they look at.  We look at multiple vendors who will contribute.  It's more of a shared cost development and they will bring models back to you and that's when you will make a decision as to what model you would like to use to develop and operate the track.  So just a quick P3 lesson there.  I actually will develop the model and take it out to market and talk to people who would bid on the project, tighten it up and make any changes if they feel the market needs in order to be successful and that is when we put out a request for proposals for private partners.  That is the development option.  Tim will talk about operational models now.  

>> TIM BAYLIE: Good morning.  I am Tim Bylie Parks and Recreation culture director and we are talking about the operational models.  Some key points private operations demonstrates financial performance as you can see on the slide.  County operation requires specialized expertise in the development or operations of the track and concession model provides guaranteed returns but minimal risk.  On this slide the takeaways private operation consistently outperform across key metrics.  The industry expertise accelerates the breakeven point or timeline and the higher attendance is generated with increased economic impact.  On this slide here you will see the private operations generate substantially higher economic impact.  There is an additional $69 million in economic activity over a 30 year time span and then job creation and tax revenue benefits extend beyond the facilities operations.  On this slide hear the County operations require.  We would acquire significant expertise in the operational portion of the site.  Negation strategies involve hiring external experts in the industry and the success would really depend on the building of the industry relationships to build the tournament play and competitive sports as well as operational knowledge.  On this slide private operational risk we are talking about private partnerships which require a robust partner selection and oversight.  Also looking at performance-based contracts would align private incentives with public objectives and regular monitoring ensures the community service standards are maintained.  What we are looking for is to review the development preferences from counsel right direction on operation approach and/or development approach in all the right stuff to proceed with the preferred pathway.  I will say I invited to industry experts here.  I Thank you've heard them speak before.  Jason mar and Jason Baker.  Both are constructed sites and operational process.  This is all as competition a national competition and they are here to speak on the topic.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  Some questions for you.  We will start with Troy can.

>> TROY KENT: Thank you chairman.  Mr. Bailey, I guess my question and one brief moment here.  And the question is for you.  I was blown away to find out 10 years ago.  I suspect this is everywhere.  Everywhere.  That every recreation piece you provide in a city municipality is subsidized by the government.  There is not one where the user fee completely pays for what you are doing.  Can you go back to the slide Mr. Baylie are it should the annual cost of the County.  It is like 300,000.  There we go.  Council, I will say in Ormond Beach 10 years ago the most subsidized piece of recreation was baseball softball.  To the tune of $1400 per participant.  And I was shocked.  Tell you that because I didn't know it but when I see with the annual cost is I'm not as bashful about that because of what I know about what everyone else pays to have recreation in the community.  Mr. Baylie, here is the question.  Do you know.  And if you don't it is okay.  You can get it to all of us later.  I don't mean to put you on the spot.  What is the number in dollars of what the County subsidizes for recreation currently?  

>> TIM BAYLIE: I'm going to answer it in two different ways.  When we run sports or some kind of individually consumed recreational activity, we require their recovering of all expenses directly related to that particular activity.  And let me give you a for instance.  If we run a teacher duty date bus camp and we have 30 participants and I need to 35 to breakeven on the cost, we don't run the program.  We have to recover our cost on that individual events.  When it comes to maintaining a ballfield on the revenue we get, we never breakeven.  That is from field rental.  But if we are running an individual activity we have to break even.  

>> SPEAKER: I am pleasantly surprised to learn some of the individual sports you don't run in unless it breaks even, but I don't know I'm 100 percent there with you because if you are taking a group of students homework is the cost factored in to purchase the vehicle driving them?  

>> TIM BAYLIE: It is the bus.  We have to recover the cost of the bus, the bus driver.  There were direct expenses.  At the incrementally direct expense.  It doesn't cover my time.  But it does cover all the direct expenses.  

>> SPEAKER: Do you have a number as to what the County spends on recreation?  

>> TIM BAYLIE: I do not.  I can get that to you.

>> TROY KENT: I know you could and I threw that out you and you had no idea that was coming from me.  When you get a break, text your team and say hey, if we can get this, find it out, please.

>> TIM BAYLIE: There is one thing I wanted to add to that.  There is on recreational asset that does recover its cost from an operational standpoint and that is trails.  When I look at the cost to build and maintain a trail in the increased revenue we bring in because the trail was built, it exceeds the cost of the maintenance and development of that trail.  

>> TROY KENT: Purchasing the property where the trail is located?  

>> TIM BAYLIE: That is correct.

>> BRADLEY BURBAUGH: Earlier this year Tim and I did an analysis and we are at 20 percent cost recovery when we look at our programs and that is about the national average.  

>> TROY KENT: Of the County subsidizing 20 percent.  Thank you.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Mr. Baylie, I have a question for you.  Before I ask it, Ben always gets this.  Want to say you are the best in the state of Florida at what you do and I really appreciate your leadership in Volusia County.  I'm going to hold my comments until that portion of our debate here.  Would you explain to me what the concession model is?  

>> TIM BAYLIE: When you are looking at -- the County under that particular model, we perform the general maintenance.  Like the facility access we would govern and the general maintenance of the track we would govern.  In terms of food concessions, especially event marketing and promotion, those national tournaments would be contracted out on this would be a fixed fee kind of set up.  And you could govern a percentage of sales but that is what the concession model is.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: The County would share the profit?  You said we get income from trails.  How are you calculating that?  That is really interesting.  

>> TIM BAYLIE: We have been doing this at a while and doing analysis on economic impacts.  For homes built residential property program focusing on residential property within 1000 feet of a trail the average house increases in value 3 to 5 percent.  The increased rally multiplied goes back into the county coffers to offset the expenses related to the trail development.  That happens through time.  It doesn't happen on the DB built trail, happens through time.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  Councilman Johansson.

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: On the revenue side, when we first started this conversation we talked about the importance of people here in the County who don't have this venue and the ability to write a motorbike, a motorcycle.  And we wanted to do this so our constituents use can get out.  It is starting to look like we are doing a field that is national and statewide competition and less so for our citizens.

>> TIM BAYLIE: This is the assumptions associated with one of a 30 practice days and 12 regional and national competitions if we were to run it in 14 of the private sector were to.  

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: And it would be open for us the remaining times?  

>> TIM BAYLIE: The 130 days is for locals.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: No other questions?  I think we are good.  Thank you Brad.  Thank you Tim Baylie.  Okay.  You need two things from us.  And operations model and management model.  Yes, one more question.  For which one?  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Sorry about that.  It relates to your question.  This has been out 4 at least six months.  Over a year I think now.  And more information has come out in the last six months.  Are you getting any interest from the private sector and you share what the buses and what model might work and that interest?  

>> TIM BAYLIE: You have two track builders here today so there is interest and I think the fact you've a colleague involved in the sport out talking with individuals and national events and regional events certainly helps the case.  I think the decision needs to be public or private.  We don't have to drill down on the models because our consultant will come back and say we have run the numbers.  We have $1 million from Adventist health to be the namesake.  We have this much money from international Speedway Corporation or AMA.  This is how much the public would need to add to the pot in this is with the operational structure.  There are multiple.  The five listed on the slide, it's just the beginning.  There are multiple others but this is what they see in sports and counties.  I am trying to go back there.  Kinda from the publicly operated, publicly built facility to a design build operate and maintain.  They are doing a more private sector on courthouses in the nation with the County is paying a fee to keep the budgets from going up and down.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: As a follow-up, if the private option were selected, two questions in that scenario.  Would we still have a say so in the quality of the design?  And secondly, with that allow us to have the 130 days of open public use?  

>> TIM BAYLIE: Yes.  Those are things important to the Council so we would make sure -- when I asked what are your goals, the consultant would come back and present and you can make changes at the time if you wish.  If it didn't have everything.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I am guessing we have public comments?  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: We have.  Was just going to ask.  We have six public comments.  Would you like to hear them now or after debate?  I will leave it up to you.  Now?  

>> TIM BAYLIE: The one thing I will say and George mentioned this and he will probably hear this from the track builders forgive we go straight land lease to develop it, I think to sweeten the pot or add to the value proposition we should take some of the money we have remaining the Council approved to do some infrastructure improvements like we have done at the parcels.  It is a rating made where they would come in and build the tracks but we would build roads and some of the storm water.  Some of the crucial infrastructure.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: One of the quick questions.  There are two track builders here.  Where they from?  

>> TIM BAYLIE: One is an Winter Haven.  Bone Valley is a publicly operated, publicly built track by Polk County on the other builder has three tracks.  South and South Central Florida.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: We will go to public comment and begin our debate.  First up is Connie Colby.  And then we will have Catherine and John Nicholson.  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: Good morning.  Connie Colby.  First of all, to my knowledge this has not come up to the Council as far as the vote whether we are going to have motocross at all yet.  I am not aware of it yet.  So it is kind of like putting the cart before the horse here.  I did read most of what was in the report.  I'm confused as to whether this covers ATV a new T.V. because I was in the beginning of the report and they require different kinds of tracks encompassing two full-size competitive motocross tracks.  They have parking slips for RVs, additional parking, restrooms.  We saw classroom there, training facilities seem to add more money to what was there.  We spent a lot of money with transferring money from one place to another.  The money from $10 million, I forgot about us for.  Things I would not see addressed in here and I hope Council consider not giving this at all.  Road access.  This is building environmental properties here.  Significant capitol investment.  You can be someone specialized motocross facility management.  Coordinators wanted to see children in a, not daycare but they would have children there during the week motocross about three hours a day and then homeschooling.  You would need a teacher there and somebody to watch the kids when they are not there when the parents aren't there.  You dig wells, Internet, lighting.  They say you need an on-site medical facility.  Probably need some place to gas up your equipment there.  What was the other thing.  They need heavy equipment like bulldozers and excavators to go over the tracks while they are being used between times.  I custom maintenance and lawsuits.  We insurance they say is quite high.  Office space, spectator space, storage facilities for the bikes left there, for writing bikes.  And as far as the location, 60 percent of that land is wetland.  To me it is not appropriate for motocross.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you for your comments.  Catherine followed by John Nicholson.  Followed by Jason.  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: I'm not opposed to privately fund motocross track being built on private land not owned by the County.  It was a profitable business venture I'm certain the Speedway or another entity would have built one in our community.  What I'm opposed to is a publicly funded motocross tractor our County should not be -- including public-private partnerships.  Motocross is a high liability sport that Volusia County residents should all have to shoulder the liability for the Council voted to do this against the wishes of the majority of residents.  This has been irresponsible use of taxpayer money for an offset.  $120,000 The Huntington study, 10.2 of into Bill, staff time, ongoing continual maintenance and 4 million in land purchased under the guise of conservation.  Was the needs assessment omitted from the scope of work this means we do not have a well-founded idea of the financial viability of the facility.  County staff grades professional grade promotional material to sell this to the taxpayers who will be on the hook for 1000 councilman Project.  Is appalling to see approval from County staff in April of this year where the stuff accommodation of the approval of a very 2024 when we reach the second reading in reference to the fuel terminal.  Is disturbing to see projects pushed to the forefront when we have pressing concerns in our County become strongly opposed opening up land for off-road vehicle trail writing for Volusia forever is passive recreationally.  Brad one stated in Volusia County to the whole goal is to get the land intact in its natural state.  Would like to remind you chairman brought about a Facebook post he made in March 25, 2022 which I will submit the public record.  I'm excited to be the first elective public servant assign the commitment working toward preserving the wildlife corridor.  The second one had to do with preserving Florida forever wildlife corridor.  This project resides in Volusia forever purchased with our money and also purchased -- it is upside down.  This resides in the Florida wildlife corridor.  I have time to come going to be debate the Florida legislature passed in government DeSantis signed the wildlife corridor act and provide funding to purchase this beautiful land to preserve the safe and beautiful court order.  The act would protect Lotus wildlife as estate grows and preserves the natural quarter so future generations can continue to enjoy the land and its wildlife but we need willing sellers to come forward to glisten to the Florida ranchers urging other landowners to protect the discovery resource good here to see our public wells, wetlands and water bodies.  Were not protecting our wetlands and integrate the standards necessary to do that encouraging landowners to sell their land they own for conservation would be a great way to save both.  Let's remember that as we vote on this.  [Applause] 

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: John Nicholson.  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: A little clarification.  There was a picture shown about this land.  If I'm not mistaken, part of it was already cleared so it is not in its natural state.  Secondly, it appeared to have hard surfaces.  Third, if this were to go on this property I do not believe there's a bottle of hard surfaces involved with motocross so you could clarify that if you would, please.  Third, I believe we were going to have two entities acquire this property.  If so, half of the property where the part that is not disturbed disturbed can be purchased by Volusia forever which would match it.  Secondly, Echo could match the already disturbed property can be used for recreation.  There is a company the County does business with and has for 50 years called Daytona national Speedway.  It leases County property and it is quite successful.  Secondly, it gives us a very advantageous advantage in terms of tourism.  Recognition, bodies and hotels, etc., etc. One of the reasons I would disagree with Don is Donald once bare-bones.  I would prefer Daytona international Speedway type location that everyone benefits.  Not only our local kids because unlike his son, I'm sure he would never ride on private property, but kids do and they need a place to go.  Grew up in an area where it is often said idle hands are a devils workshop.  Parents were always finding a place where there was baseball, football, whatever, to keep their kids busy.  This fits into that frame of mine.  So I look at this not as a sense of win or loss.  The idea that you would have 30 kids denied an event because five seats are empty did not make sense to me.  The idea that we lose money absolutely makes sense.  We have Midtown.  We have call it golden.  How is this any different than how we subsidize anyone else.  I don't consider this a pet because his son is involved.  His son brings an interest.  Am asking you to look at this carefully.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Jason followed by Jimmy followed by Jason Baker.  Jason first.  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: How is it going?  So I do operate out of a few different facilities in South Florida and when we look at some of these parks.  We are looking at conservation land and things like that, how often have you seen a kid want to go birdwatching.  We are taking away property for kids to go and do things so we have to keep that in mind because I do have three kids.  I semi retired and then I got into this business because I am watching things dwindle more and more.  I think it is a shame we refer to Don Dempsey as doing this is a pet project and it is not.  He does have a child who does motocross and he knows these four and he loves it and he gets to see the parents and kids involved in it and what they love.  I do live surrounded by preservation land in more and more you can do anything on them.  The one that surrounds me you can't ride a bicycle on it.  When you're doing the preservation lands, what are we doing them for.  If you can't use them what is the purpose.  This is to keep land the land.  It is creating a facility for kids to go outdoors and do things.  When we are looking at the model.  I know we keep talking about cost.  I did not do this because I want to spend money.  It is a moneymaking Park.  It is different from a baseball field.  You can generate income from these facilities and you can generate a very good income.  When we are looking at costs from the County going out, we are not looking at a continual cost.  If it is done correctly managed right it is an income generating business.  My recommendation I do look at the private public partnership is a better bet as opposed to putting it out just for private because it's going to be a unique individual that will want to take a private, but the money and finances into it to develop on a land to turn it back over to the County.  I think giving a private partnership makes the most since. It keeps both parties in line in the common goal.  In addition to that we talked about how to operate it.  Does the County operated were privately operated.  I would recommend privately as opposed to County operating.  There is a lot of nuances and expertise you need to know.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  Jimmy?  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: Good morning.  Thank you for having me.  I would like to say there's a lot of misinformation out there.  I have never seen in my 60+ years of land being destroyed by any facility like this.  You don't see parking lots, asphalt, concrete.  You don't see guys out there destroying the land.  You see more kids that don't have places to ride dirt bikes.  They don't have basketball courts in every town in every community.  These people do not realize these subdivisions by destroying land.  I live in a conservation area.  I love animals and no offense to anyone here, I love animals more than humans any day.  Absolutely.  We are the most destructive thing on the planet.  It breaks my heart to see the land development has gone on here.  Not to mention other towns, counties, states.  It is gone forever.  There's animals in my garbage.  Animals have no home.  What about the subdivision you live in now?  You are living in an animals home.  They are not living in your home, you are living in theirs.  Since the land development is gone on I'm born and raised here.  My grandparents came here from Georgia to provide ice to this community.  Tops grocery and ice house.  He did wonders for this place and surrounding counties.  My mom and Volusia County Courthouse for 35 years under Levi Smith.  And spent many days and weekends.  My mom worked nothing but for this town.  Married people here.  She did so much here.  35 years almost every week and I spent in the courthouse because I didn't have somebody to control me.  That is how I was raised here kind of the courthouse very well.  She said she did not have friends.  She did.  There was over 400 people there.  I would like to say, I'm getting older.  This is positive for this community by providing recreational activities, family interaction, local for people to write, memories to last a lifetime.  List economy to local business.  And brings people together unlike what we see today.  We are no longer united.  We have dedicated space for outdoor recreation.  Promotes physical activities.  Thank you for your time.  I got to go pee. [Laughing] 

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: I think I do too.  Jason Baker followed by Rob.  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: Jason Baker.  My company is dream contracts.  Thank you for letting me be here today.  I definitely have a lot of experience in handling things like this.  I have worked in Polk County Parks and Recreation for many years developing their bone Valley Park that they have.  Two tracks for them down there.  Of my experience I've been doing this for 22 years.  I traveled all over the world and built courses on six or seven continents.  I worked for the likes of X games, red bull, all heavy-handed in the action sports community.  Like many of your citizens here, action sports is high demand these days.  It is not just baseball, football, ball sports, action sports is equal part in an equal part of the community.  I appreciate you guys would bring something else like this for your community.  Want to talk briefly.  Give the three different.  The public, the public-private and the full private.  We went through all of those with Polk County.  Initially they wanted to go the private scenario.  The problem with that is you start getting into your sovereign immunity on the protections you have with that.  That tends to diminish as you look toward the private side so that makes the operating costs much higher and a low success rate for the end operator because of the overrun cost in the stitch stipulations you guys would generally put on to have a part to be update your standards because Parks and Recreation do things at the highest.  The public side of things, you guys doing it, it is very specific and if you don't understand the specifics of the sport, inherent danger is an associative factor and inherent danger and risk if you don't have the right people running and managing and operating in building the features, that risk increases in injuries and that is a negative public scenario.  I personally think the public-private scenario is the best option.  That is what Polk County has gone with her currently involved with them on operational side of things keeping things up to speed in the standards to keep things safe.  That would be my recommendation.  I'm here for any questions you guys want to ask as I have had a very broad in depth and doing this type of stuff so thank you for hearing me.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you for coming in.  Rob?  Followed by Nate Ingram.  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: Thank you for the time.  Rob here.  I came for a couple reasons today.  I wanted to voice my opinion against this publicly funded motocross track.  Seems like the decision has made.  If we spent six figures on a study it was sold to me in my neighborhood and meeting at the landfill that this is going to be a profitable venture and I don't think there's any guarantees of that.  Didn't we just have numbers about the beach parking?  I know we recently see it's not making what we thought it was going to make.  Property taxes will probably have to increase to make up for the shortfall so I don't think we can count any chickens before they are hatched.  We mentioned a lot of terms.  This outdoor motorized parts, public-private partnership, public financed option.  At the end of the day I feel this has been proposed that the County by a particular entity.  A group seeking profit.  How can it be anything else.  Jason mentioned before me sovereign immunity.  What it looks like to me is there is a private seeking venture that looks to limit its liability by partnering with the government because it comes with sovereign immunity.  Is this one people of Volusia have been asking for?  What I've seen is people asking for a lot of fun at mitigation stuff and I haven't seen this kind of effort even put into that where the studies are being done but we have already have a completed study.  Is it going to be correct or not?  We don't know.  There are so many projections.  At the end of the date your representatives of the government.  You are in essence supposed to be representatives of the people.  How many people have asked for this.  A competition motocross track.  Not talking about access to outdoor trails.  That makes sense your Quicken people ride their bikes and take their kids and dogs for a walk.  That is relatively few places people of access to close to their homes.  What it looks like to me is a guaranteed liability for taxpayers.  Even if these projections are right, we subsidize these outdoor activities but how many people are going to be using this competition motocross track.  We need access to the outdoors.  That will have to be subsidized by the government.  That is the reason for stuff like this.  I think it is wrong and it will incur additional liability for the citizens of Volusia County.  Please do the right thing even though you might have major decision by the looks of it.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  Nate Ingram?  In the last speaker will be Chad Ellis.  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: Thank you Mr. chair.  My name is Nate Ingram and I am Volusia County resident who asks for this kind of thing.  The last speaker is curious to see.  I am one of them and the reason I spend the better part of my life in the motocross racing industry is a senior pastor doing church service at every event I could get to.  I was on the road 45 to 50 weekends a year at each one of the events we could get to throughout the state of Florida, Alabama and Georgia.  The reason we went is for those of us to go to church, there's no church service at the tracks we are usually there from Friday to Sunday evening racing at these events.  The opportunity was there one of the greatest blessings I received as I trackside pastor was to watch the families interacting at the track.  Moms, dads, kids, everybody camping together for an entire weekend at a sporting event in the come Rotary and brotherhood that takes place a second to none.  I've watched people in the same class as my kids.  My somewhat have a part break and someone from three rows over would find out and rush over to put on a part for a kid racing in the same class.  That is like the other team bringing me aesthetically to the baseball field.  The spirit is incredible.  I complement you on doing the correct research by bringing in experts in the field.  You will not find a better track builder anywhere in the world and Jason Baker.  He knows what he's talking about.  He's talking about building a safe track what he means is it is easy to push dirt into a pile.  I do it on my farm all the time usually when I am bearing a dead cow or something like that.  But to make that into a track and jump as an art form and Jason has perfected that.  I'm excited to see you guys have involved him in the process.  One of the things we hear about the racing a motocross is how dangerous it is and how scary it is when the fast motorcycles are racing by at high speeds.  Did you know there is a more dangerous sport you sponsor?  Every year we have a cheerleading event.  Cheerleading is the number one cause the industry injury for children under the age of 17.  Cheerleading.  The County also owns football fields pickup provided the study from Stanford.  Football is the leading cause a head injury and players.  Overtime the repeated injury to the head is causing the permanent CT injury.  How many football fields or baseball fields does the county have?  I'm sure they have a bunch.  I don't play anymore.  But I still ride a dirt bike on occasion.  I still pay taxes to all the other sports I don't enjoy and I am okay with that because it supports our County.  Thank you Mr. chair.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Chad Ellis?  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: Good morning chair.  Chad Ellis, Daytona Florida.  Names like Vince Gould, Charlie, Stony Sixma, Dale Ellis, Jimmy Herring, Nancy McDonald, Jeff Wingard and any other names the mayor and it may not recognize and some may be here in the room or peeing, respectively.  [Laughing] 
They are anonymous at some point in the early days motocross and off-road racing in Volusia County.  We watch for years as areas east openly right get swallowed up by overdevelopment replaces my father was in the list of names and I used to ride for miles without touching a piece of asphalt or concrete.  Many of the areas are possibly inhabited by folks behind me.  Some of those areas contained motocross trucks and as far as I learn new Smyrna Speedway week we watched in dismay as multiple attempts to open areas with Tiger Bay have been thwarted.  I'm not saying development is bad and it is inevitable.  Consider the fact every area has at some point fallen victim.  Motocross or from facility is easily removed if not days as a majority the facility is a naturally occurring material.  I drive two hours to ride with my father who is rapidly approaching 70 my brother and he is in town.  I can't count the amount of times we've been able to ride along herds of deer wildlife.  We tried ball sport, we watch and we enjoy watching them except pickle ball, they weren't for us.  We drive around the County and are amazed at the amount of traditional sports facilities built with yards and yards of concrete and think one of the next generations to enjoy the same sport we do going to be accommodated., Part of a group of enthusiasts and I urge you to lean on us and we will do whatever we can to make this a reality.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  That is the end of public comment.  Thank you for coming in and speaking.  We will start with our discussion and debate.  Don, it looks like you are up first.  

>> DON DEMPSEY: I would like to thank everyone coming out.  I know I get accused of this being a pet project of mine and I will wear that as a badge of honor.  I've been involved in the sport for 50 years.  I've seen what it is done for me and my family and others.  I'm 60.  I'm old.  Basically in my past I've seen a need for hockey here.  Out of my own money I started a hockey league at the YMCA in 1990.  In 2000 I saw a need for places to ride.  I tried this project in 2000 after two years of effort I rented some obstacles and it didn't go through.  But I am trying again.  I saw a need for a comedy club.  I saw a need for the community.  I did a freestyle show back in 2000, the motocross event had two really big shows to benefit the town.  I am doing this not for me or my son pick on doing this for the community.  Is a lot of kids I come in contact with that of absolutely nowhere to go.  That is why I am doing this.  I don't want videogame vegetables on my watch.  Trying to get Little League baseball field some practice I want to see these kids get outside and do things.  I didn't don't think anyone questions motives Jake is doing stuff for the veterans offer himself but the benefit of the veterans.  We all of our experience and life of Danny is a big fisherman and does a lot of stuff in the vision community I've been involved for 50 years.  I've seen what it does for families and that's a good thing we are fortunate enough to have to the best industry people here.  Jason Baker and Jason Morrow are top-notch people in the industry.  California is no longer the Mecca.  California because of their politics, everything is come to Florida.  We are the hub of motocross.  The demand is growing but there's nowhere for children in Volusia County to go.  Trying to get a place for kids to get out with their parents and right.  I brought the video.  Just to give you a feel for what I see in other people see when they go to these races.  It is not destructive behavior.  It is a common goal that kids learn to work on the motorcycle.  My 12-year-old could do more engine work and maintenance the most men in this room.  My sunken jet carburetor.  Most people can't do it.  This was the class before my sons race in Louisiana and I was like on but people see that.  Look at the parents behind the children.  This is a moment across track.  This is a start of a race ahead of us in Louisiana.  I don't know what is so offensive about that the people.  I don't know why this bothers so many people but every kid has a parent behind them and supported them.  It is not destructive.  There's no impervious surfaces.  It's not 180 mile trail system for environmentally sensitive property.  This is what we are looking to provide for local children.  I just don't want to.  There's no motive or underlying developer trying to get rich off the immunity.  There's no pet project for my son which is troubling and I see that stuff and somehow people think I'm doing this for my son.  I started the project 25 years ago long before my son was born.  This is something we need and that's why am so passionate about it because it really is good for the community.  Thank you.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Complement Johansson.

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: Thank you chairman.  A few comments as we move forward.  I'm glad we listen to the public beforehand.  I would like to comment on some of the public comments and invite him to spend some time with Tim Bailey so we can show you the website and over 120 miles that trails hopefully one goes close to your house.  Heard earlier about the storm water news letter and all the work we are doing to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on stormwater.  So we aren't supplanting money from stormwater from project on motocross.  Also, a lot of folks that I haven't seen a lot of people asking for motocross.  They are on social media and it is something as an elected official we see a long.  If we go to a website that is central Florida fly fisherman.  Because enough life fisherman.  We are going to talk about Indian River lagoon in the flyfishing.  Everything I see is Indian River Lagoon flyfishing.  I don't see anyone talking against my fishing.  I'm going to say everybody supports that because that is where I hang my hat.  Is the same thing for people who don't want flyfishing.  Is all the people that don't want it.  That is where you hang the hat that is what you see.  And so you have to open the aperture and see everybody's opinions on what is going on.  Not just what you want to see and that is a bias we wake up with.  Gift open the aperture and say what is the other side looking at.  People that are opposed to anything they will email Lynn.  People who are for something meet in the hallway and say it's a great project.  So we have to be careful.  I would say right now and more people contacting me letter for it or neutral there's some hundred 75,000 people give or take in this county and the balance hasn't shifted in a direction..  As for how we move forward.  We have all said from the bench before that we don't want to spend millions of dollars on the project.  We want risk sharing.  We've also heard from people who have done the private public partnerships before they are willing to help assume some of the risks.  It depends on how you move forward.  You should've seen the area in the pictures.  Into messed up situation we can turn into something good.  You saw the video Mr. Dempsey showed.  It has a lot of dirt.  I mentioned that dirt has a Lotta dear track Senate when the morning comes to help relay the concerns of Miss Colby.  I think most of the stuff that concerns you would be born on the risk of the developers should we go on the public-private partnership route.  So we won't be looking for teachers and medical facilities of things of the nature and doctors.  Those would be things born on the private sector probably.  I'm confident we can come up with a plan to move forward should that be where counsel wants to go.  Thank you.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you Jake.  I will try to be quick and fit in everything hoping to hear from Don again but I have to respond like Jake did.  There is not been a decision made.  I am struggling with it.  I think we would get whether we get motocross this.  I want to see trails with the people that live in Volusia County could go on a ride.  We don't have one foot trails on private property where you can legally ride.  Everybody has to ride illegally almost if you find a private property.  There will not be a decision made today.  We will give information back to the staff.  If the council votes for a cost and a program for the five or whatever he did decide there's not been a decision made at.  Don Dempsey, I agree with you.  I've known you a long time.  I knew you before you ran for office.  I know that this is not a self-serving project for you.  I know where you live and I have seen you already have taken care of the sums needs.  He built him a beautiful track.  You take him all over the country to raise.  You are for this because you more knowledge than any of us do on motocross and you believe it would be a benefit for the citizens of Volusia County.  That is why you support it.  I completely reject this is a self-serving project for you.  I'm glad it was brought up about my support because I don't backup from that.  I voted as everyone did to conserve the property we are looking at.  Motocross track if it comes.  I don't even know if I it and forward it.  I have real questions.  It is not development progressed of preserving the peace and land that is not a pristine.  And has been ruined by previous owner who wouldn't exit perfect for trail writing if that is what happens.  I have real questions.  I am not picking on you, but I respect you and I hope you will come back after I speak and answer some of these things.  This is where I am struggling.  Why motocross here?  Troy is not here.  For dogs on the beach you voted no on it and said you could have dogs on the beach in Flagler.  Why not just take your dogs up to Flagler to go to the beach and I thought about that because I discovered that there is a motocross track in Flagler County.  So I went and saw it.  Why doesn't the same thing apply.  -People Who come for four who said there's no place to ride.  We can go to Flagler.  Is a beautiful track owned by a family.  Why does that not apply there?  You voted no because you didn't want to put taxis and Uber drivers out of business.  We will put the family-owned track out of business if we do this.  I don't want to make that vote.  I believe they are friends of yours.  I hope this is voted to proceed that you will at least get the chance to bid on it.  I'm struggling with those things.  I went because I was really concerned.  I am hearing a lot from the public about we are not conserving this land, we going to destroy it.  I took somebody with me who was against this so I could watch her reactions and as we rode around the track that amazed me how many deer tracks there were.  It amazed me there was a whole family of Sandhill cranes raising their young because people sent me a necessity of motocross the animals won't breed anymore.  They didn't get the memo for that 50 Sandhill cranes were breeding.  There's an alligator there pick the alligator is breeding.  He set at night when they are done racing all the hills are filled with dear.  We can go out in Ocala right now.  There are legal places to ride trails.  We have more bears and raccoons and dear.  Now we are debating do we kill bears?  They are breeding.  This is consistent with conservation.  I will come back later.  Councilman Santiago?  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Thank you Mr. chairman.  We are in debate, right?  I hope you can clarify your position later.  I felt a little bit both sides there.  Coming your position.  Got you.  Don, I'm proud to stand by you on this initiative.  I'm not a motocross guy, never been to a motocross activity, but since you started this initiative I talked to many people who approached me about it.  I probably couldn't even start the bike.  I do know this people use it and what makes a good community.  Diversified activities.  Amenities.  When people come to invested communities they look at the quality and ballparks and soccer fields are not for everyone.  That is probably where I spend most of my time.  Relates the folks who like the activities you like they pay into the taxes we are utilizing to fund these projects.  Your kid doesn't play baseball but we can't be so narrowminded to think because I don't like it we shouldn't have it.  It is a lot more important than that.  Our jobs as to serve as many people as we can to improve our community and this adds to the value of our community.  Mr. chairman, I like the fact he pointed out the property is not in pristine condition.  It is destroyed.  There's really nothing there to preserve your gets ugly.  It's disgusting looking.  Parts of it I should be.  This would be an enhancement to that area if you ask me.  People need to understand that perspective on the other large portion of the land is being preserved as they were trying to identify also.  During the duration of the time we looked at several sites.  We are looking for the best site.  This is the best site because every time we propose the new site a different segment of the community came out and said not here.  I don't want to tear.  If there is any site in Volusia County this is the best because of the location what is the impacts on that land.  I am ready to move forward.  This is my initiative but I want to make sure if we vote this for what I want to give a clear direction to fast-track this.  Want to get this done before the end of the year and have an agreement in place in a vote in place to say this is the direction we are going to go.  This trip are constantly hearing about it, excuse me.  I am losing my voice.  This drip, drip, drip let's rip this Band-Aid off, let's get on with it if the counsel has the majority of the votes and give a clear fast-track direction.  Thank you Mr. chair.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Councilman Troy Kent.

>> TROY KENT: Councilman Dempsey, it's a good thing I don't hold grudges.  Somethings were brought up here and it is a good thing I don't hold grudges.  My wife would say differently.  I wanted to tell you I appreciate your passion and ability to get bring this forward.  One of my favorite things was I promised all of us if the price tag was disgustingly bloated they would be the first one to say absolutely not.  Any of taken staff to task in my opinion about numbers you thought were inflated.  I know this isn't question or answer time.  This is not a pet project for your family and son.  How many weekends a year would you say.  We heard you talk about this activity you've done for 50 years and your son is involved in it.  How many weekends a year would you say you all are gone to track.  52 weeks out of the year how many are you traveling for this?  

>> SPEAKER: That is why I got carpal tunnel.  I drove the entire month of March.  May through June.  We just got back from Tennessee for a week and 1/2.  

>> TROY KENT: How many weekends?  

>> SPEAKER: 30, 40.  

>> TROY KENT: I asked that because I wanted you to have an opportunity to show that.  If this doesn't happen, are you going to be traveling with your son 40 trips a year?  He said yes for those of you listening online.  That is not going to change anything for Don Dempsey and his family.  You are still doing that.  I believe you when you say I want to do this for the kids who don't have the opportunity to ride in their neighborhood.  There's no place legal for them to do that.  I'm going to hold you to your words about the price tag and you wouldn't even support something outrageous.  I heard Mr. Johansson mentioned earlier, I think it was Jake that talked about not spending a tremendous amount of money on this but I think it was important:my questions earlier to Mr. Baylie about what to be spent on migration.  I learned a long time ago all recreation is subsidized by government tax payers.  When you look at a ballfield and you look at the clay and grass and maintenance in the fertilizer and the light poles that are 100 feet tall, it is all subsidized.  Thank you.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Don, you are up again.  

>> DON DEMPSEY: To address the chairs questions and they are fair questions and I've been up there quite a bit and I like CJ and his wife.  They are good people.  The problem is from here if I google mapped it now is 49 minutes to get from here to PAX tracks.  Your average child goes to a brick-and-mortar school, your average child in this community their parents work 9:00to 5:00.  Mom and dad get off at 5:00, mom or dad have to unwind, load the bikes and you are going to drive an hour and 49 minutes to PAX tracks, unload.  Get there at 6:30 p.m., it is dark and 1/2 hour.  In the wintertime it gets dark at 5:30 p.m. so you wipe out the daylight savings times from November through March or whatever that period is you cannot ride.  It is not a lit facility.  So you can't go there after school for four or five months.  That is a weekend thing.  This is supposed to be open during the week and that's how these places operate.  They need a place to go after school and they don't allow the video.  50 cc bikes.  They do not allow 55 cc.  You probably just saw the main track.  Is a small track in the back for little kids, which in my opinion, it's okay.  But it could be better.  And their is absolutely nowhere decent for people to write.  I believe they only allow 65 or 15 minutes every hour on Sundays.  We don't write there.  I have written there once in the last year.  We train at another facility.  But we are not doing this to turn everybody into a pro.  This is for your average kid after school.  If they get involved in football they go to the football field.  If they want to play basketball they go to the basketball courts.  PAX tracks is not lit.  There's nowhere to go for kids after school.  130 years ago you could ride in bikers paradise in Daytona or duck Lake.  You cannot ride there anymore.  You are just going to get trespassed and arrested.  There's no place for children to take their bikes.  From day one my initial goal before flooding became my top priority.  My initial goal when we had our agenda meeting the first time, it was the motocross and it is for Parks and Recreation.  I'm trying to get kids out.  I started that hockey league in the early 90s because I wanted to get kids involved.  Really think it is important as government leaders we help kids get out and do stuff and not just sit on their phones because during criminal law, and representing a lot of teenagers and kids pick a lot of it is because they have no outlets.  Have to give these kids something to do and this offers that.  Is going to vote yes for the dog beach but if you remember can we mark that down?  I was going to vote yes.  I was against it because of the property owners but I was going to change my vote but I got held up.  We have the issues with the microphone in the audio.  I couldn't even attend Richard Lee.  I tried to vote my conscience all the time.  This is something I think is needed in the community.  This board has taught me a lot in life.  Was a kid I love this point.  Had a full-time job in 10th, 11th and 12th grade.  I worked 40 hours a week after school so I could afford my third bike.  So I could afford to raise on the weekends because that's how passionate I was.  And learn to work on engines and 12 years old.  Most of these guys probably learn to work on engines as kids because if you are poor you don't have the money to pay people to gift either not right or learn how to work on engines and I learned how to do top inspect then.  I did.  There's a lot I kids out there who don't have interest in mechanical how engines work or getting a job to pay for their bikes.  Once this bug bites you, it's got you and it will teach a lot of kids a lot of important valleys in life and that's why I'm so passionate.  Thank you.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  Vice chair Reinhart.

>> MATT REINHART: Thank you for that.  One of the things you hit on being a criminal defense attorney in some of the things you face and wonder if their lives are different before how it would have changed them in a positive direction this would be one of those things.  I wrote something down that I rather see Don's initiative then to go to my initiative.  Rather see this remove the possibility for give them more outside activities.  Recently I took a tour with Nick and there was a park near there because I wanted to see and I'm glad you took me down there.  I was hearing the same thing.  We are talking about disturbed property and laying asphalt and all the things and none of that comes into play with the area.  They are that utilized the echo dollars for the outside activity is already disturbed land of the conservation dollars is going to say wait what?  Conservation.  That is staying the same.  I'm glad we are here to discuss what is not true and what is true.  The trail system that runs near there, I would like to see connectivity.  We talked about that connecting the one that we went through.  We drove by all for 15 and January 04, 1944.  There's no current connectivity between those, but we discussed that.  And I too would like to see that utilized.  I'm not in favor of putting down the asphalt Tampa drill system.  I would like to see it with it natural trail system.  Trying to think of the park we went to.  Long Lake Pine.  And the ideas we have to improve that area and it is not far from where I live.  We have an extensive trail system and I think the conservation land I think it exceeds what the size of Seminole County is.  Volusia County currently has.  That is impressive and we still want to do more and those opportunities will come up.  Volusia forever is not going anywhere.  Those opportunities will arise.  I appreciate the fact that you showed us that.  And so I would like to see where this goes.  If you haven't on the opportunity to visit that site, I would implore you to do so.  It is well-suited for this type of activity.  Thank you chair.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: I'm going to try to clarify my position.  It is cloudy.  I'm listening and I'm trying to learn.  You told Troy you spent most a your weekends out with your son.  I think that is marvelous.  Your wife also is probably gone all those weekends too with horseback riding.  Don't tell her to do this, but I was concerned with viability.  It turns out horseback riding according to horses only magazine, says it is 3.5 times more dangerous than dirtbike riding in the body ever says a word.  I in for it.  We are going to have horseback riding here I think.  Aren't we?  And access to the back.  Right past my dirt bike trails in the back.  But here is where I am.  What you didn't answer and what is really heavy on my heart.  Because I met that family.  I met the husband and wife.  He said we will go out of business, we will be okay.  You wouldn't vote because he didn't want to put in Uber driver out of business.  I don't understand why it is okay to put this family out of business.  Are we going to have lighting here?  I don't feel this is a core government responsibility for us to build it and manage it.  If the Council wants to look at a private or public will look at the numbers.  Private management, private maintenance.  I don't want it increase a whole other department or increase your department for employee staff to go out there and maintain a track that don't know what they are doing yet.  For me that would be the only options.  And I went like if we are going to put it out on the street for bids, I hope packs tracks would get to bed because I hope a local Deland president also into this point is interested in bidding.  I would like to see that local.  One of them here and the other in Flagler be able to prosper.  I am not there yet until I see the numbers.  We have a lot more important things but this is coming from general fund.  It is coming from echo that is set aside for a Lotta things but a lot is for outdoor recreation.  This is a reasonable place for this kind of outdoor recreation.  The County has no business going into business.  What you like about this is you see the ability for us to improve the local economy.  I agree with that.  If it is done with private companies are not County employees.  I don't want to grow the business or grow the size and our government.  We need to reduce it.  I'm going to stop there.  I hope you will take another minute, a bite at the apple and talk about.  Who is next.  David Santiago, do you mind if he makes a quick response?  

>> SPEAKER: Again, and 49 minutes from here you get down toward Deltona and add on another 20 minutes each way.  Now you are talking about it's infeasible.  I can't even imagine the people during the week Monday through Friday or even going.  I don't think we are talking about the same population here.  It's impractical to go up after work Monday through Friday.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Do you agree it would put them out of business?  

>> SPEAKER: Absolutely not.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: You are going to vote for Detroit's dogs on the beach because he no longer think it's okay did drive 49 minutes.  

>> SPEAKER: You voted for of override.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: It's a completely different clientele.  

>> SPEAKER: I just don't see it.  There's nobody from Deltona, Port Orange.  There's nobody coming up and driving that far.  You can't do it.  It gets dark.  I'm looking for a local place people can go and this is not money driven.  This is giving kids a place to go.  I am not trying to create a.tenant Speedway which is on county property and that is a dangerous endeavor as well.  I don't see any problem.  I don't want to spend any more money than pickle ball.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Councilman Sandy Iago.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Oh my goodness.  That is to attacks on my pickle ball.  I don't know if I trust this guy.  I'm kidding.  I move the direct staff to go to the next step in pursuit a public-private partnership option with a consultant to bring back to the Council before the first meeting in December.  

>>  Second.  

>> SPEAKER: Tell me the date again.  Before the first meeting in December.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: You said before the first meeting.  On or before the first meeting in December so that we can decide on the next step at that point.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Bring back information on public-private building and management.  Everything public private.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: My understanding is we would bring back the consultant review regarding how a private public partnership can be formed for us.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Is that what you need to?  

>> BRADLEY BURBAUGH: We will work with the Council and they will be here in December to give you a status update.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: With numbers?  

>> BRADLEY BURBAUGH: Without knowing the work schedule, we are going to work as fast as we can to get you the numbers.  They have been briefed on the project.  The contract is coming to counsel at the next meeting.  I saw that it was being finalized next week but that work now with the direction would bring before us what a private partnership would look like and what it could potentially cost us so we give direction to execute on that or not.  That is my motion.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: And then the public knows.  Okay.  We have a motion on the table by David Santiago.  Second by dawn Dempsey.  Before I called for a vote, do you want to speak?  

>> SPEAKER: Council, just to let you know where I am out.  Everybody seems to be on point with why we started this to begin with.  We want to add to the diversification about activities.  There is nothing else like this.  We tried and exhausted other avenues whether it be Tiger Bay and some other things out there that didn't work.  We tried it at a landfill which is an industrial site.  That wasn't good enough.  We found disturbed land that we had an opportunity to acquire and it kills a couple of birds with one stone.  Even if this thing doesn't go through.  But even if this goes through or is approved, it's still in production or conservation.  There is still value their.  At the end of the day our end investment is taxpayer dollars and the property.  You guys know where my head is that.  Whatever we do to the property in looking at worst case scenario is our initial investment and if we have to do electric.  If we have to do storm water sewer, all that stuff can be applied in the future if this thing goes south for outdoor recreation if we want people camping around the lake.  If you want people doing their outdoor activities.  It will not be money wasted.  It would be money invested either way, if we take the minimalist approach done, we can get the number down.  That is quite a sticker shock when I saw the 10 or so million dollars.  I don't think that is accurate.  I think there's a good opportunity we are accomplishing a lot of things the public once.  If we proceed forward with caution we can make something good out of this in a Lotta different areas.  You will have my support if we can do that.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: To make it clear to the public and for each of us, the motion on the table is not to approve motocross.  It is take it to the next step to have staff and their consultants bring us back.  What a private public facility would look like a bully with cost.  We can't vote on it.  Before the first meeting in December.  On or before the first meeting in December.  You are still good with that?  Would you call the roll?  

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: Yes.

>> TROY KENT: Yes.

>> MATT REINHART: Yes.

>> DANNY ROBINS: Yes.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Yes.

>> DON DEMPSEY: Yes.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Yes.  On the right.  That will come back to us.  Thank you for everybody who participated.  Number for lunch we can sit FIT in item 17.  If you are ready item 17 is a discussion seeking the amendment of Senate Bill 180.

>> MIKE DYER: We brought back a short presentation Paul will walk you through.  John Booker was going to give the presentation but lost his voice.  

>> SPEAKER: I will talk fast.  Senior assistant County Attorney.  This is item 17.  Regarding bringing back direction on SB 180 which.

>> SPEAKER: Chairman, I hate to interrupt.  No, I can hear.  I know you have a list of cards.  And wondering if we should take our lunch break now.  Lunch has been delivered.  I would hate for it to sit and get cold.  I know there's a presentation here.  We moved this up so we are definitely going to get it.  I'm hoping you could get the temperature of the Council and see what we think.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: We have four people so less than 15 minutes for them.  You are less than five minutes?  

>> SPEAKER: If that.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: I don't want to do this without hearing from the public.  

>> SPEAKER: If the Council is okay with it, I am fine with us waiting 25, 30 minutes for lunch.  

>> SPEAKER: To add to that, the public comment is fine.  It's whether or not we belabor this or not.  It is going to be on us.  I am okay with proceeding.  Go as fast as possible.  Split, presuming you read SB 180.  There are two sections staff is concerned about.  Section 18 applies to future hurricanes.  If we are subject to hurricanes this year or anytime in the future.  If it makes landfall within 100 miles enlisted in the federal disaster declaration the same super preemption applies.  This is from SB 250 the last year.  This is what it looks like when it makes landfall and that is what it looks like if you continue the track 100 miles.  This is Anna Nicole from 2023.  Even with the future preemption portion, any hurricane can apply a preemption to the majority of the state if not all the state depending on how that works.  The main one we are concerned about a section 28 and that is a retroactive preemption.  This is the pertinent language that makes it null and void.  Are storm water regulations is more burdensome more restrictive.  A lot of the statements we are hearing on that conversation was about this applying property damage by hurricane and removing the red tape for the rebuilding efforts.  We recognize that.  We try ourselves as a County to remove red tape for rebuilding and reconstruction efforts from hurricanes.  The way section 28 works is it depends upon the federal declaration areas when you layer all three hurricanes together that is the entire estate.  It's kind of a super preemption and restrictive regulations.  There is some discussion about potential challenges to SB 180.  Mike identified.  One is standing.  There's a public standing doctrine that says you can only challenge the constitutionality of a statute if you meet certain.  The other is home rule.  Is the ability to act without getting an affirmative state affirmation or express authority to do so.  We have our power but the powers are explicitly limited by state law.  We can do anything up to a state law says you need to stop.  Last meeting may not direction to bring back an agenda item to discuss seeking an amendment to SB 180 so we proposed languages.  This is section 18 change for the future hurricanes.  Our additions are in blue and deletions are in red with the strike all so we are proposing to change it to enforce rather than propose or adopt and to keep the intention forward.  Our proposal is it applies to damaged by hurricanes, which we think is the intent of the legislature to approve this.  The same thing with that section 28 so you can adopt any one of these.  You can't enforce it on properties damaged by hurricanes, which is the intent to move red tape and allow people to reconstruct.  Don't put more burdensome regulations on people who have properties that are damaged by the hurricane.  So those are proposed changes.  If you want to take any direction on whether or not to proceed, get their lobbyist and a legislative delegation.  

>> SPEAKER: If counsel wanted to go in this direction, we could outline what we seek to change in the bill that seems to be consistent with what I have heard him other jurisdictions are considering at the moment.  And have a lobbyist center contract so the idea would be too get the firm information to advise how to proceed to.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Do you have a question?  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: After the public.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Any questions for staff before I call on the public?  Councilman Johansson.

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: I think I have my own answer.  This would apply to any hurricane, right?  Is something came up next year from something that happened three years ago.  Split this applies to any hurricane.  It applies to the three hurricanes.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Mike, I appreciate how quickly you worked on this.  When I read the changes that are proposed, it's so simple and clear and accomplishes I believe with the legislature, what I've heard them say in public with their intention was to help people whose homes were destroyed or badly damaged.  Doesn't prevent that but it doesn't take away local control at the with the most important thing we deal with here.  That is zoning and land use.  Well done.  Four people from the public.  Stephanie Cox, your first.  After Stephanie is Gary Singleton and then Catherine and Brian White.  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: Good afternoon.  Thank you again.  I know we are all hungry.  I should say Stephanie Cox, Deltona.  I spoke last night at the city meeting in Daytona about SB 180.  I like the changes in the amendments and I hope you agree with those in vote in that direction.  Thank you.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  Gary Singleton?  Pardon me?  She didn't take 30 minutes.  And you don't get the balance of her time.  [Laughing] 

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: Gary Singleton, District 3. I just wanted to say there were some comments made that the state setting assigned was an urgent issue.  For bidding representatives from taking actions that would prevent future flooding is a very urgent issue.  Mobilizing our lobbyists is urgently needed and should be done as soon as possible.  As fast as it can be done.  I have also read where there are municipalities.  There are actions being taken to file lawsuits.  My information as they would be asking from the County a contribution of $10,000 and an additional 5000 if it went to the Supreme Court.  I think this is a drop in the bucket considered, considering how much has been spent on studies of various other things.  And 1/2 a mill intimately and.  It's important to preserve our home rule.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  Catherine.  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: Here to request the Council direct staff department with orange County and the city of Daytona court challenge against the state of Florida regarding senate bill SB 180.  This legislation is direct attack on local home rule authority and hinders our ability to make essential land-use decisions and to protect public safety, public health and welfare.  From the offset I question the constitutionality and urge the council to do the same.  Let's not forget Volusia County adopted its own charter following a voter approved referendum June 30, 1970 which took effect January 01, 1971 this pivotal move give Volusia County greater control over its affairs freeing us from direct control of the state legislature.  Home rule authority is enshrined in a 1968 Florida Constitution and further reinforced by the home rules power act of 1973 which ended legal challenges to him indivisible County powers, specifically article 8 of the Florida Constitution grants these powers Volusia County was a trailblazer, the first counting the state of Florida to adopt powers under the 1960 Constitution.  That woman in history marked in bold active leadership.  Leadership that must be honored and upheld today.  And at the County current strategy appears to be too ask nicely for an amendment to the next legislature decision.  This approaches we can conveniently delays progress on row boundary charter amendment in time for the 2026 ballot.  Let's call SB 180 what it is.  A calculated move by the legislature aided by local delegation to strip away local authority and eliminate home rule.  It was designed not to be amended but serve powerful development interests that dominate the legislative process.  I urge the Council to join the coalition of local government invite to repeal the bill spending $10,000 to defend our constitutional powers is a small investment compared to the 120,000 recently spent on a motocross study.  Now is the time for bold action.  Now is the time to reclaim home rule authority and protect the public as each of you were elected to do.  Thank you.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  Brian White?  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: Good afternoon.  Brian White, New Smyrna Beach.  Here today is a resident.  One of many thousands of residents in our county who lived through hurricanes and in Milton and many other named storms.  Now we are facing a different kind of disaster.  SB 180 is a direct attack on local control.  It strips Volusia County of its ability to protect people and property in the aftermath of the storm.  This law doesn't residents rebuild.  It helps developers move ahead without checks and balances or accountability.  Advance moratoria, blocks combined to plan updates and voids local rules passed after August 01, 2024.  Even those adopted in good faith to prevent future flooding or environmental destruction.  Let's be clear SB 180 was written for one purpose to let developers exploit chaos.  It doesn't matter if roads are still flooded or our infrastructure is overwhelmed.  The law forces us to say yes to new construction whether we want it or not.  The most dangerous part is it sets a precedent forget the state can suspend local land-use loss after a storm, what is next?  Another emergency, another giveaway.  It is a slippery slope to permanent state control.  I understand legal limitations, but you are not powerless.  Am asking the council to take a stand, passed a resolution opposing SB 180.  Join with other counties and jurisdictions to demand its repeal or its amendment, defend our home rule even if it is not just on paper because silence will be seen a surrender.  You were elected to represent the citizens of Volusia County, not to bounded Tallahassee lobbyists.  Please fight for us.  Thank you.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  That is the end of public comment on this item 17.  David Santiago.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: My colleagues, with the proposed amendments that have been written up I stopped.  I think they are very reasonable.  It since the message and accomplishes maybe not everything everybody wants but it is a reasonable request to send to the legislature.  With that said, I move we direct staff to prepare this in a manner to instruct our lobbyists and teams to work toward amending Senate Bill 180 with the proposed language we have before us.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  Second by Danny Robins.  Motion first off to prepare this so you don't have to bring it back.  If we vote for this you are out of the shoots and you have time to get ready on it.  John Booker, it is all on your shoulders if we vote for this.  A well-qualified.  Individual.  Councilman Johansson.

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: Very quickly I have a question for Mike.  What legal options to be have?  There were a lot of things quoted by the public.  Can we go over those?  I want to make sure.  

>> SPEAKER: So legal options are you can pass any legislation no more burdensome or restrictive.  We have done that.  Low impact development is a good example we are seeing a lot of use.  It was an incentive-based program.  That is not affected by SB 180.  It's not more burdensome, it's not more restrictive.  It's an alternate way of developing something that someone has an option to do.  There are ways to incentivize regulations.  The restriction is you can't go more restrictive.  For the challenges, Mike touched on that.  One standing is always an issue.  Basically there is case law saying even if you'd disagree it's your statutorily duty to enforce it.  Just because you don't like the statute doesn't mean you have the ability to superior they have carved out exceptions if you are required to expend County funds were you are yourself would be personally liable.  Is a discussion on home rule and what Homer Liz, going back pre-1968 no local government at home rule.  Dillon's rule is I need in order to enact an ordinance I need to find something in the statute of the Constitution that says I can do this.  It is a limited availability for local government to act.  In 1968 home rule means I don't need to look for the expressed grant the charter itself grants the power and is limited by the state saying otherwise.  Look for a preemption.  As the state said don't do this and that is the limitation of home rule.  Is the ability for us to draft land development regulations and that is limited by the state coming in and saying your power is limited by this and this is an extreme example.  The state as 200+ preemption vulnerability to an act ordinances.  The limits, I am quoting here from the Florida Constitution for Turner counties we have all the power of local self-government not inconsistent.  That is the limiting power.  

>> SPEAKER: We talked a little bit about last time, it was the smoothest Council meeting we had had.  

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: I cannot show up more often.  I was happy where I was.  

>> SPEAKER: I am joking.  But there has been a lot of discussion about Senate Bill one 180.  Right now there are three paths.  Sit this one out and see what happens.  ESOL one, men in the County with the latest I heard voted to engage in a lawsuit.  And others are talking about trying to seek an amendment to the bill.  You could seek a challenge to the bill.  No one has a crystal ball and could predict what the outcome of that would be.  He has walked through I think some obstacles are challenges and I get it.  People say I want to defend home rule.  I want to defend local government decision-making.  I understand it.  I believe in it.  You're trying to do things for the citizens they represent.  But we are insubordinate legislative body.  The legislature created us.  Even created our boundaries and state law.  He is a list he maintains for 200 preemptions the legislature already preempted us on and what does that mean.  The legislature decided how we are going to do something rather than us decided.  The 1968 constitutional amendment is a big deal.  There are things we have that we would not have.  These driving being one of them.  The state law allows as a charter County as of a certain date.  We have an authority to regulate areas the legislature has not touched.  Certainly you see more regulations come from the state dealing with local government and we have that and lastly the third is the home rule provides County preemption to cities which we have with environmental standards as provided in your charter.  Are charter when it was amended out of the preemption on the environmental issues.  We are happy to talk about any direction you want to pursue.  

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: Thank you.  I just want to be clear on that since the public made it sound like we had more wiggle room.  The other thing we said is the knee-jerk reaction to kick somebody in the shins, in other words legally challenge them, is counter to the way I do business.  I've would've rather work through this collaboratively in the first place before it got there.  When we saw the quickness of the attack on the back of that, which was SB 1130 pieces thrown in there we couldn't react quick enough.  But I still think the best way to move forward is to work collaboratively to get changes in there without stirring the pot.  We have seen a couple of counties stir the pot and they are not in a good place compared to us.  I want to protect what we have from being preempted in the future as well.  I am supportive of the way we are moving forward based on the information you just provided.  Thank you.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you for that information.  The truth is we are subordinate government.  The state created us like the state created the federal government.  They tend to forget that but it is true they are subordinate to the states.  This is the best way to handle this.  Is it weak?  In my opinion no.  It is the way governments are supposed to work.  Most of the bill is really good and necessary.  It covers how we handle our County and state after disasters.  What needed to be amended was in very late.  I think the night before the bill was voted on, amendments that made it so overly broad from things that did take away our local control.  I think what I am hearing for the Council is they are ready to draw a line in the sand.  We are going to be relegated to the fact we can go to ribbon cuttings and that will be the effectiveness of a County Counsel if the state continues.  This also works hand-in-hand with those choosing to sue.  I think it makes it a reasonable option to make these simple changes and make the bill say what the legislature is telling us their intention was.  I appreciate the work and asking for a unanimous vote here and let's work with our state government and try to make these changes.  Councilman Robins?  

>> DANNY ROBINS: Thank you chair.  I will make it quick.  Had a couple of quick questions thinking ahead here.  Does this nullify any current regulations?  

>> SPEAKER: Are storm water regulations.  

>> DANNY ROBINS: Nothing in terms of building of our mental impacts?  

>> SPEAKER: Everything stays the same.  You apply the rules as they exist.  You can make it less restrictive.  And we have done that.  We have four sheds and vehicles.  Heavy trucks.  Not touched by SB 180.  

>> DANNY ROBINS: A lot of our laws and ordinances we have on the books are higher than state and federal law.  That shows in our wetland study that we just did, our growth study we did prior to that and several other things.  We are still at a high standard sitting pretty well in terms of standards and protections for our people.  Appreciate it.  Hopefully this works out.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  I don't see anyone else who wants to discuss this so we have a motion to run with the changes made in the work with John Booker, our lobbyist, counsel, public, anybody who wants to help.  And so all in favor of the motion please say aye.  Any opposed?  Motion passes unanimously 7/ zero.  And we will take a how many?  Let's take a 45 minute break.  We will be back at 1:00.  [Recess] 

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Testing, testing.  Podium.  On item number four?  Okay.  We are on item for, which is the appointment to the charter review commission and Russ Brown, are you going to talk to us about the 

>> RUSS BROWN: Good afternoon.  Russ Brown Deputy County Attorney.  Before you is the agenda item to select the 15 members for the target review committee.  As previously divided decided by counsel in the June meeting you decide that each of you would get your nomination and followed by a second and immediate vote for each individual nominated that gets a second.  Each of you has two selections.  They do not have to be in her district and the 15th can be nominated by anybody on counsel.  The agenda item has some dates and therefore the target review committee.  Most important date coming up will the first organizational meeting September 3 Wednesday at 5:30 p.m. at the Daytona Beach international Airport on the conference room on the second floor.  With that I will turn it over to you.  Also with me is John Booker.  That can answer any questions as well.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: I thought we decided the 15th vote would go to the chair?  

>> SPEAKER: You must have read that on Facebook.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Instagram.  Okay.  Did he just say you are going to say something too?  

>> SPEAKER: We are here to answer any questions and there are 41 applicants.  You have the agenda in front of you.  I will turn it over to you.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: David Santiago, you had a question for staff quick.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: For staff and all of us.  Procedurally I wanted to make sure we go in knowing the ground rules how we are going to go into this.  I don't think we have spelt that out, but I wanted to throw a recommendation if I may.  Unless there are other parameters.  Since we each have one.  Sorry, too.  Maybe we can use our order that we are voting and then do the reverse for the second one.  Is that what you are thinking?  In the second time we do reverse order?  

>> SPEAKER: Like a snake graph.  

>>  Is that a motocross term?  [laughing] 

>> SPEAKER: I figured that would be the fairest way.  The rotation for today.  For everyone's knowledge it will be Johansson, Kent, Robins, Dempsey and Brower and then Brower again?  Okay.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: The other thing I wanted the throw out for the Council.  Whoever we nominate each of us, if we could give a quick synopsis as to why we are nominating that person with the background it's.  We have 40 of them here.  I can't remember everybody's things.  This is an important committee we put together every 10 years and every particular person who gets nominated should have a fairly decent conversation, brief but still vetted in a certain way before we vote on it.  Thank you Mr. chair.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Okay.  Nobody has any objections to any of that.  Michael Dyer, your name is still up.  It is no longer.  

>> SPEAKER: I apologize.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: What you have done now publicly.  We will start with Councilman Johansson.  Do you want to make your first nomination.

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: I would like to nominate Kelly, Eastside district for representative by the healthcare organizations and a lawyer.  

>> SPEAKER: Second.  Tell me the last time name again?  

>>  Kqitec.  

>> SPEAKER: Did you say she is a legal background.

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: She is a lawyer.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: And the second was by Troy Kent.  And we are on to vote on each one of these separately.  I will call for the vote.  All in favor say aye.  Any opposed?  She is approved and assigned to the charter review commission.  7/0.  Troy Kent.

>> TROY KENT: My first nomination is Christopher Tolland. Chris lives in Ormond Beach, born and raised there.  He is an executive with foundation risk partners and I think he would bring a great set of eyes and skill set to disposition.  

>> SPEAKER: Second.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Second by Matt Reinhart.  All in favor say aye.  Any opposed?  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Are you making notes here.  Troy, if I may Mr. chair.  Insurance background, right?  And the first one was a legal background?  Thank you Mr. chair.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Matt Reinhart?  

>> MATT REINHART: I would like to nominate Mark Watts.  He's an attorney land-use attorney that has experience with the charter review the last time around that is successful job.  We are all familiar with market.  Is actually here.  Last time I checked.  He is in between home still but he is still in Volusia.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Is there a second?  Second by David Santiago.  All in favor say aye.  Any opposed quick Mark Watts is nominated and that takes us to Danny Robbins.  

>> DANNY ROBINS: Ben Johnson retired sheriff 30, 35 years.  Also a member of the Council familiar with the charter and all County operations.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: And the second comes from vice chair Reinhart.  All in favor say aye.  Any opposed?  Then is nominated 7/0 and that takes us to David Santiago.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I want to nominate Pat Northey, new resident of Volusia County.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Second by Danny Robbins.  All in favor say aye.  And Pat is it pointed to the charter review committee 7/0 and that takes us to Don Dempsey.  

>> DON DEMPSEY: Dwight Lewis.  Dwight is district 1. He was a Councilman.  Has all kinds of experience over here on the west side.  I have known him forever.  I think he is a good fit.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Is there a second.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Second.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Second by David Santiago.  All in favor say aye.  Any opposed?  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Mr. chairman if I may for a quick question?  I don't know if anybody -- I just answered my question.  I apologize.  And looked at the list.  Thank you.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Next one is mine and I will nominate Jennifer Bright.  She is district for Eastside.  Jennifer is a financial analyst and a corporate office manager and strategic manager.  Very knowledgeable.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I will second.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Second by David Santiago.  All in favor say aye.  Any opposed?  Okay.  And we will go backwards.  I will take the next one and I will nominate.  Where is mine.  I will nominate Jason Volz was a Daytona resident, it's former Army.  I think he was Army in law enforcement in Texas.  And long-term resident of Deltona.  Can I get a second on Jason Volz?  Really?  

>> SPEAKER: I will second.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Discussion?  I opposed Jason's nomination for a few reasons, but also he is a candidate right now on a ballot an active and vocal in the community.  Not that I oppose his positions, but I don't think is commentary reflects the values at this Council necessarily would support and strategies on how to effectively communicate and get things done.  So I strongly oppose that nomination on the candidacy is probably the biggest one for me.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Mr. County attorney, are there any problems nominating somebody who is a candidate?  

>> SPEAKER: There is no legal.  

>> SPEAKER: It is up to counsel entirely on that issue.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Okay.  Call the roll on Jason votes.  

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: No.  

>> TROY KENT: I don't know the guy.  Is it too late for discussion, chairman?  Yes.  

>> MATT REINHART: No.

>> DANNY ROBINS: No.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: No.

>> DON DEMPSEY: No.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Yes.  But he doesn't have enough votes.  Interesting.  So my next nomination would be Emily Busch who is a member of the PLDRC in good standing and also a resident of Osteen.  Is there a second on Emily?  

>> SPEAKER: Second for discussion.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Troy Kent.  You have discussion?  

>> TROY KENT: I don't know this person either.  So I can appreciate where you are coming from.  I didn't know that last person.  There are a couple of names that have come up.  I see a couple too that I would not have chosen but because my colleagues did I felt like I'm going to support them.  I want them to support mine as well.  I don't know anything about this person.  If there is some hesitation that would be great.  Thanks.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: David Santiago.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Troy, I respect that and I think we have generally worked on the Council along those lines.  We try to support our colleagues as much as possible.  When I think overwhelmingly we do.  This is such an important.  This charter review committee.  Let's give a little background on the individuals we are nominating.  We only go by what we see out there.  How ever, I will say this.  As we continue, we are about halfway through.  I'm not offended if any of you think one of my nominees may have challenges.  I think I made a comment on the last one it doesn't necessarily reflect the values of this Council because that board is a reflection of us at the same time.  If anyone has a concern of any member, I want to hear it.  I won't be offended.  This is what we do.  Regarding Ms. Emily Busch I know it was a struggle to get the second Mr. chair.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Isn't that interesting.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I'm going to try to answer your question.  I think this Emily Bush is a smart individual.  I'm very concerned on her advocacy style.  Just my opinion.  I have come and watch to.  She currently sits on our PLDRC board.  I have watched her tactics on the PLDRC board, I've spoken to our staff regarding her on our PLDRC board and the feedback I received and what I see is not always have the most professional mannerisms on how to treat staff and how to conduct yourself in that seat we all sit in.  Not that I agree with our opinions because I think she's a very smart individual and I have spoken to her personally and I agree with some of her things.  It is not a difference of opinion and thoughts.  It is a reflection on this Council.  Efforts a very concerning things from our staff on how she has treated some of our staff.  I don't want to put another group of staff members exposed to that.  With that comment and for nominate would have come up before us for PLDRC I would've voted no for her because of what I have seen and heard from staff.  It is firsthand knowledge and even very legitimate sources.  I think we have plenty names to choose from if we are struggling maybe we stretch it but I don't think that is a reflection of what we should put on this board.  Thank you Mr. chair.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: You are welcome.  I'm not struggling for names.  I was pleased when I saw Emily applied for this.  I think she is extremely bright, she is a planner.  She does serve on the PLDRC.  This is the first I've heard there was a problem.  I don't know who the attorney is that sits there.  Here we are in public and we are criticizing people and they have no ability to respond and defend themselves.  I just think that's wrong.  There are three names that have been presented that I am sorry to see, but I deferred to Council members, other Council members, including you, to let you have the vote you think best represent us.  I would ask you give me that same thoughtfulness.  Anyway, Emily Bush.  A planner.  Yes, she probably doesn't lay down.  She is able to defend her positions on her points.  Your name is up again.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: This is part of the discussion.  This is what we are doing and I respect her as an individual think this is the process.  I'm not trying to disparage anybody publicly but we have to discuss why and why not support someone.  I will share a little bit more.  I sat and watched even instances where some of the information she portrayed was accusatory towards staff and it was an accurate.  I have seen it.  This is not something I have heard or read on Facebook.  I don't want to put names out there, I will leave it there.  And I didn't Thank you were struggling for names.  I wasn't accusing that.  What I am saying is we have a lot of names.  And we were struggling for people we could have more in depth.  I think we have better choices.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: That is your opinion.  I think this is very unfair to Emily and Jason.  Don Dempsey.  

>> DON DEMPSEY: I have to agree with you, David.  I watch the PLDRC meetings and I don't know if it is an even exchange or if she tends to dominate the conversations with the free discussion we are going to have here with all these choices.  I have heard other complaints as well.  I don't want to disclose anything but basically everything you said is in essence is what I have heard as well.  I have to agree with you.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Nobody else?  Call the role, please.  

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: I want to reiterate I am sorry.  Clarifying I heard you say it's not fair but we all knew that when it came to individual votes on peoples names.  And I have a list of nine because I'm not sure you're going to approve of my pics either.  And so I don't know how we can save we didn't know because we all know we were going to vote for people and there's an opportunity the vote might not go in that persons way.  Unprepared should you say no to mind to fight the good fight but I have alternatives as well.  I just don't want people to think we are picking on one person.  We are picking the best 15.  Having said that I am ready to vote.  

>> SPEAKER: I'm not even going to touch that.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Would you call the role, please.

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: Know.  

>> TROY KENT: No.

>> MATT REINHART: No.

>> DANNY ROBINS: No.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: No.

>> DON DEMPSEY: No.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Yes.  So I will try more.  How about Joel Page district 3 restaurant owner.  Lives in New Smyrna Beach involved in the city of New Smyrna Beach.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I will second that.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Joel Page has a second from David Santiago.  

>> SPEAKER: Chair, can you elaborate a little bit more?  Does he have business background or successful business background?  Anything socially?  Does his views alignment counsel, anything you can collaborate or organize for us to get a better idea of who we are dealing with?  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Like I said, he is a restaurant owner in New Smyrna Beach.  He had his wife have owned two successful restaurants.  His views align very closely not just mine but probably to this Council.  He is involved in New Smyrna Beach.  At one time he was a candidate for New Smyrna Beach City Councilman.  He is not now.  I have known him for a long time.  He is a decent man from a decent family.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Chair, I'm trying to take some of that into consideration as well.  I have known Joel as well and I don't want to get into it personal, but businesswise I don't know if there's a whole a lot success there to be honest with you.  But also social media and a lot of stuff, where my head is that is looking to see who we can have that have a conversation with a very experienced group and not confrontation.  I think there's a big difference between the to and making sure they are qualified budget wise, legalize.  There is almost specific criteria I look for and probably some of our other colleagues.  And also how they would represent themselves as a direct reflection of how they represent this County.  I would support Joel.  Not for this.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: I am beginning to wonder if anybody will support anybody I nominate.  Again, this is unfair to Joel.  He is a resident in good standing.  He has never been arrested.  They do own a successful business.  You are not going to vote for them.  I understand that.  David Santiago.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I don't know who he is, never met him.  Danny's commentary made me think of something.  I hate to put you on the spot.  If you want to elaborate.  You mentioned something about social media commentary.  Before you answer my question, this is an interview somewhat, right?  It goes back to again and is a reflection of this Council.  We also have to make sure who ever we appoint has white opinions.  Opinions don't matter as far as what side someone is on.  But to make sure the board can govern properly, can work together and have constructive dialogue is of extreme importance to me in whatever decisions they move forward.  With that qualifier, can you elaborate on what your concerns are?  If it is social media it is in the public space.  I'm sorry to put you on the spot, but I don't know who he is.  

>> DON DEMPSEY: I give my opinion on what I see.  Maybe it is a personality like Ms. Bush.  This is a very strong roll they are going to play.  You have to be qualified.  Imagine Elon musk hiring anybody.  This isn't like, this is a very different -- 

>> SPEAKER: Don't.  Again, this is just totally unfair to this man.  I have sat in many meetings.  This is my nominee and what you are doing is tearing them down.  You don't even know him.  I know him.  I have sat in a lot of meetings and there's discussion amongst a wide variety of people.  He is not disruptive.  In fact, he was really helpful.  

>> DON DEMPSEY: Can I have my time back?  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: What happened?  

>> SPEAKER: Am I allowed to speak or finish my time.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: You can speak.  I don't think we are timing anybody.  

>> SPEAKER: That I will reclaim my time.  I will just remind you this was a unanimous vote including you for this process.  We do have to vet these people.  I trust my gut.  They have to be qualified.  In my opinion I like Mr. page is a person.  He is not qualified for this position.  Thank you.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Okay.   

>> SPEAKER: You have a public comment for this item?  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: We do.  Catherine.  You have three minutes to discuss item four.  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: Some of the comments in ultimate are disturbing in reference to residence.  Emily Bush is an urban planner.  She teaches at a college.  She is more than qualified for this position.  Danny Robbins, his issues with Joel Page.  Do his views line with the direction of this Council meeting on the development and trust?  He also knows that Joel Page supports his political opponent.  Now I'm going to get into my thing I will actually.  Besides the little notes I took.  Good afternoon Council members.  Are at the constant intro the appointments to the charter review made at the public interest at the forefront.  It is essential the individuals with direct ties to development industry including land-use attorneys development interest to form a County Council members excluded from consideration for this commission.  The charter review plays a critical roll in shaping the future governance of the County.  And must reflect the voice and will of the general public not to service Avenue to further the interest of a specific sector stacking the commission with individuals who professionally or politically tied to development threatens the integrity of the process and risks eroding public trust.  Please appoint members who are independent community focused on representative of the diverse voices of our residents.  Thank you.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: John Nicholson?  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: John Nicholson.  I attended for these nominations dating back to the 80s. This is the first time people have been vetted which I think is great.  Secondly, call me whatever you want to call me.  I don't hold office, however, I noticed on our boards there people who really shouldn't be on our boards.  Literally.  We have one person on the planning board who asked you have entrance.  What you mean?  Can you pay for your building.  This is not in the purview of the planning board.  You need people who know what they are doing.  If you have to vet, which is what I Thank you are doing and I think it is valid questions, do it.  I don't feel anyone is being aligned if somebody says they are not good for this board.  You know how I feel about the diversity of this Council.  A lawyer, somebody who has been in County, somebody who has been in state.  That is a great diversity.  Gives you strength, and gives you knowledge.  Why would you pick a board that doesn't have that kind of background.  Doesn't have the depth.  This goes for 10 years.  It affects half a million people.  I like what you are doing.  Please continue.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Okay.  David Santiago?  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I wasn't planning to talk and I don't know this individual, but certain commentary has helped me come to a no for this individual.  What I have learned additionally is this individual may have a radical approach to things.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: That is not true.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I will give you time to rebut.  I learned that recently from a reliable source that I think is reliable to me and that is not the governing body we should have their.  I don't know his views.  I don't know if he is Republican, Democrat or anything.  Vetting process is to make sure, I don't want to support any radical person deemed radical on either side of the aisle for commentary right now help me save my vote no is a good one and I couldn't pick them out of a lineup.  I just want good governance to come out of this without any extremist positions.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Joel is not an extremist.  He is not radical.  He doesn't strike out at people.  Maybe he doesn't online with some of the current candidates appear.  I don't know.  This is beyond bizarre to me.  What I am looking for with my nominations.  This is a really important board and that will affect the County for the next 10 or 20 years.  I'm looking for someone who is knowledgeable, smart and like all three of the people I nominated that can give us a fresh perspective.  A new look.  What we have got here is people who have been on all the other boards.  We know what they think.  One of the speakers was right.  We are looking at continued development and could make SB 180 pale.  You can take Danny's word.  I'm telling you, I've been in many meetings with him with diverse groups of people where Joel was called to participate and discuss and did that without disruption.  Anyway, call the roll call. for Jake Johansson.  

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: I want to reiterate for the public and I guess may be for my clarification.  A lot was talked about with plan development, but if I recall any land development decisions come back to us.  They are not automatically put on.  Go ahead.  

>> SPEAKER: You have two things that play.  Since our last charter review, this is one of the things we will go over with the commission.  In the land-use related item has to be put on the ballot by you and now you have Senate Bill 180, which you are changing, but that prohibits us from even proposing a proposal.  Unfortunately those two things are going to come into play.

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: Got it.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Don Dempsey.  

>> DON DEMPSEY: I want to explain why I am a no vote on this.  Not because I'm trying to pick on you were getting up on you, but I would like to see people who have business experience, people I know personally.  I know you said he had a couple of restaurants, but on his resume I don't see any listing.  All it passes retired and he was a fireman prior to that.  I loved people who signed the front of a paycheck.  Would love to people who have been successful in business end of the struggle of operating a business and signing paychecks.  This doesn't have anything.  It shows his employment information retired and nothing else.  There really actually is nothing shown on this application as far as his experience.  Apparently you and Danny have your opinions of him and David has heard something.  My gut is telling me I have to be a no vote.  It's not because I'm trying to beat up your nominees.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Okay.  I am not making up what I said about him.  He does currently own a restaurant.  He built it with his hands, he and his wife.  44 New Smyrna Beach., He is a businessman.  I can see where this is going at least three boats.  I don't want to beat up these people anymore.  Call the roll on Joel Page.  

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: No.

>> TROY KENT: Yes.

>> MATT REINHART: No.

>> DANNY ROBINS: No.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: No.

>> DON DEMPSEY: No.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Yes.  And Joel is not confirmed either.  I hate to do this to another person.  This will be interesting because she serves on boards, but I will nominate Suzanne Scheiber.  

>> SPEAKER: Second.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Any feedback on Suzanne?  Troy Kent.

>> TROY KENT: Thanks chairman.  I appointed Suzanne to our board that she serves on.  I will be the first to tell view Suzanne was not in the corner of Troy Kent.  She was not in support of me or my candidacy.  And I was okay with that because I love what she has done with green dream Volusia in the water goat idea and that implementation of it in Holly Hill.  I feel like she gives a tremendous amount of her time to make our community better in very selfless acts.  I think she has become unfortunately a lightning rod because she has gotten involved in some politics in the past and maybe hurt some feelings, but -- counsel, I will be very raw with you right now.  I asked my wife to reach out to Suzanne to ask her if she would serve as my appointment and my wife was shocked because of the things she felt had been said about me.  We Keith Chester stand before us when we made the nomination and I believe his quote was something along the lines of you were a good man or whatever.  He knew more about it than I did.  But I can tell you I have worked with Suzanne, I have met with her.  I feel like her viewpoint on this commission would be positive otherwise I would not have seconded the motion.  That is why I am in support of the chairman with this nominee.  Thanks.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: David Santiago.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Thank you Mr. chairman.  Troy, thank you for the explanation there.  This proves hopefully my position.  She and I have differing opinions on many things, but what I will say is I fell every time she has interacted with us she has done it in a professional manner and it is not necessarily the content.  Is how she delivered it.  Differing views are good.  I don't have a problem with that.  There's enough strong people that can give differing views and to me it is to make sure that this board can work together and she's capable of working with others in offering our opinion and let those chips fall where they may.  I can live with the nomination.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Did you call the roll on Suzanne?  

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: Yes.

>> TROY KENT: Yes.

>> MATT REINHART: Yes.

>> DANNY ROBINS: Yes.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Yes.

>> DON DEMPSEY: 

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Yes.  So Suzanne is confirmed.  And that takes us to Don Dempsey.  

>> DON DEMPSEY: Nate Ingram.  

>> SPEAKER: I believe Mr. Johansson would be next.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: We are going backwards.  It is Don Dempsey.  

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: I believe it too, Carissa.  [Laughing] 

>> SPEAKER: Second.  He is the gentleman sitting underneath the monitor with his hand up.  He is former law enforcement officer I believe for 27 years he has had a certificate.  I believe Flagler County is where he served.  Port Orange.  Okay.  He also is a commercial residential realtor.  He has a law of dealings with the County had different projects.  He is a pastor.  I've heard him a long time.  I've hurt him his sermons.  I like the guy both in his business experience.  I like the guy and I feel more than comfortable.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Second by Robbins.  All in favor of Nate Ingram say aye.  Nate is confirmed 7/0 and that takes us to David Santiago.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I want to nominate Stephanie Woolford.  She is legislative experience background in healthcare and government experience.  

>> SPEAKER: You already seconded?  I third it.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Of questions on her.  All in favor say aye.  Stephanie is confirmed 7/0 and that takes us to Dan.  

>> DANNY ROBINS: Retired chief judge James Clayton.  His reputation is renowned.  He is a very solid guy.  35 years in law.  40?  Very quiet knowledge of our local, state and federal issues.  And overqualified for the job.  He is my nomination.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: James Clayton with the second from vice chair Reinhart.  I'm going to have to oppose him.  Not because you opposed everyone I came up with but because I have been involved in the neighborhood dispute in a rural neighborhood that he is trying to change into a heavily dense development.  With the inability to work with his neighbors.  For me if were talking about someone who is going to work with the board, if you can't work with your neighbors, that is a no for me.  Any other discussion for him?  

>> DANNY ROBINS: Do you have a project you could reference?  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Acreage Nate owns.  

>> DANNY ROBINS: Is there some sort of conflict that would prohibit him?  I have no knowledge of this.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Not a conflict that would keep you nominating.  Just as you have had issues with people I nominated you don't think would be sufficient, like I said, if you can't talk with their labors and resolve issues, -- 

>> SPEAKER: Jim was a judge.  I don't know him like that.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: All in favor say aye.  Any opposed?  He is confirmed 6/1 and that takes us to Matt Reinhart.  

>> MATT REINHART: I can't even talk right now.  My nomination is Billy Wheeler, former County Councilman on numerous boards.  Canvassing boards, TDC, TPO.  Very familiar with this process.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Is there a second on Billy Wheeler?  Second by Danny Robins.  All in favor say aye.  Any opposed?  Confirmed 7/0.  

>> TROY KENT: Thank you chairman.  My second nominate is a gentleman named Nicholas.  I'm going to tell right now on a national level Nick and I don't agree politically.  We don't.  Nick is a retired educator from Miami-Dade.  He worked in the library system.  He and his wife Alice reside in Margaritaville in district 4. Heather and I are fortunate that twice a year we get to meet them somewhere for dinner and I always say Nick is one of two people I've had the pleasure of meeting in my life that when I leave the meeting I feel smarter after talking to him the one I arrived at the dinner meeting.  I think he would bring a wealth of knowledge.  He is a study are by nature.  He serves on the housing finance Authority right now.  I appointed him, you will agreed with that.  He was appointed in June 2003 and I think he would be a good voice on that committee as well.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Second.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Any questions?  All in favor say aye.  Nicholas confirmed 7/0 and that takes us back to Jake Johansson.

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: I would like to nominate Ken Parker.  He is a retired city manager 28 years in Port Orange.  Is international city and County manager Association advisor will first on government including Council manager which we are.  I Thank you would be value added being a lifetime member of Volusia County.  Maybe not lifetime.  Having lived here for quite a long time and been through countless charter commission programs, both of the County and the city of Port Orange.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Second by Troy Kent.  

>> SPEAKER: The way I look at describing Mr. Parker, correct me if I am wrong, no nonsense.  He is to the point.

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: Very much so.  That is another good reason.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Ken Parker with a second by Troy Kent.  Nominated by Jake Johansson.  All in favor?  Confirmed 7/0 which takes us to the nominee for the entire board.  David Santiago?  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I was sitting here thinking about that.  I would like to hear what my colleagues think but I want to throw to out there.  I wanted to see if there's any consideration for Jason Meyer or Sarah Lee Morrison.  

>> SPEAKER: Jason Meyer.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: I don't know Sara Lee well.  I know Jason Meyer and I Thank you'd be excellent.  Very accomplished business man.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Sara Lee has a background in school.  In forgot or her title was.  What was it?  

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: Director of operations.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: It is also part of the diversification of backgrounds.  Vaguely Jason is a small business owner in the area.  I can be okay with either one of them but I wanted to throw both names out there.  I think they add different perspective and different valve you.  I think they both would serve us well.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Jake Johansson.

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: I would like to toss Amy into that as well.  We see Amy quite a bit when it comes to the northwestern part of the County.  She is in and dedicate for De Leon Springs and even further than that.  She's a voice of reason.  We have heard her a few times and keeps us up to speed.  God-fearing great person and I would like to see her get a chance as well.  

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: She's representative -- Amy, I'm sorry.  Community Association.  She is the one who sends us emails on what is going on in De Leon Springs initially thanks us and lets us know when there are things that need attention.  I get a lot of that, but she is also spoken to us.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Characterize her as a somewhat member of the rural community?  

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: Very much so.  

>> SPEAKER: I would just add I would be opposed to Amy.  I think if there is anybody who is argumentative and radical, it's her.  She does within my community.  I believe her and her husband are developers.  Anyway.  

>> TROY KENT: Mr. Johansson, I appreciate the background because I don't know Amy.  She sounds like she would be great.  I also like that she comes from a rural background and I would also say I don't know Jason Meyer very well but I did have a very positive meeting with him over the summer on I think he would be a good choice as well.  Our issue is we only have one left so we will see where the chips fall with that.  

>> MATT REINHART: Any one of these are fine with me.  The reason why Sara Lee when we were talking about her, she's my appointment and she actually chairs it.  She was a 95 number the charter review commission for the city of Daytona Beach.  She testified in front of this charter in 2015.  Reading this from her application.  She is a board member for the Volusia wheat League of Women Voters.  In the ocean center which is very near and dear to all of us.  Very involved in the community.  I met with her on numerous occasions.  And we don't see eye to eye on everything.  I can tell you that now.  She is a very smart, very bright woman.  I would be happy with her.  I would be happy with Jason been very successful business owner.  Thinks outside the box and of course I know Amy very well too.  I don't know if it takes somebody to make the motion.  It is going to be a hard choice.  I'm interested to see.  There's a couple of more people want to talk.  I am in support on all three of these.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: David Santiago.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I wanted to add I throughout Sarah Lee's name in there and wanted add.  I got to interact with her when I was on the Deltona city commission and I can assure you 85 percent of the time we were on opposite sides of the issues.  I think still she would serve well on the board.  It is not about the views.  It's about diversity and capable of working with the governing board.  That is why I through her name out there and am willing to accept it.  Mr. chairman, since I got the microphone I will make the motion.  I never pass up an opportunity.  I move we appoint Sara Lee to the board.  

>>  I will second that.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: We have a motion of Sara Lee, second by vice chair Kent.  Don Dempsey?  

>> DON DEMPSEY: She seems like a good selection, but this Jason Meyer I am very impressed with his resume.  Is a very successful business owner.  I think he would bring a lot to the committee as far as making sure we are keeping the economy addressed in these discussions.  I'm not going to vote no because I'm more in favor of Mr. Meyer.  Thank you.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Troy?  


>> TROY KENT: I am more in favor of Amy.  I put that out there.  I pulled the name up because I was going to make a motion for her and Mr. Santiago who is super sharp and knows when to attack.  Was able to get that motion there.  Nothing against her.  I would vote for her just about any day of the week but I like what you said about Amy.  I like that participation.  I'm going to hold off and see if we can get a meal there.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: David Santiago?  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I want to ask my colleagues if they are willing to chime in and opine.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: If we would do what?  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: If you would opine on the additional names.  I know that there is a motion and chair.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: If they would verbalize Jason, Amy or Sara Lee?  All right.  

>>  Jason Meyer because of his background.  


>> TROY KENT: A me for me.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I made the motion so I will stick with the motion.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Which was Sarah.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Yes, sir.  

>> SPEAKER: Jason Meyer.  

>> SPEAKER: I will stick with Sara Lee.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Danny Robins?  

>> DANNY ROBINS: Jake Johansson.

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: Amy.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I want to withdraw my nomination.  I nominate Amy.  Whatever he said.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Okay.  So now we have a nomination.  Called the roll call again for her.  

>>  Do you have a second.

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: Yes.

>> TROY KENT: Yes.

>> MATT REINHART: Yes.

>> DANNY ROBINS: Yes.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Yes.

>> DON DEMPSEY: Yes.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: No.  Amy past 6/2 confirmed.  And that takes care of items 4. 

>> SPEAKER: We will let them the first organizational meeting out of the Daytona Beach international.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Item 5 is a special exception for 190 foot tall communication tower 2665 Volco road.  Carol McFarland?  

>> CAROL MCFARLANE: Good afternoon.  Hello.  Planning and development services director.  This application in front of you is a special exception for 190 foot tall communications tower, a A-1 property.  We have actually seen this item for on June 3. It was discussed.  Had a robust conversation with counsel on June 3.  After listening to public comment and discussion, the direction to staff was to review policies within the County and the city as well as history of approvals and industry standards to see what appropriate setbacks were between communication towers and single-family residences.  On July 22 the case was delayed again to get the applicant additional time to work with their neighbors.  Okay.  There we go.  Here is a location map and aerial map.  These are large lot agriculture uses.  They are cattle that are in some of the larger properties.  We have the A-1 zoning in the agriculture future land use.  I don't know how far you want me to get into this since we did talk about a June 3 but it is 195 foot tall communications tower.  The code does require the communication and maintain a space for other carriers.  Every carrier has the own tower so we try to three future antennas provided they are looking at a fall radius of 95 feet.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Point of order?  Maybe in the interest of time.  We heard the presentation.  We sent staff back on the applicant back to figure out if there's additional radius is.  If we can stick our commentary to what is different and we can go from there if that is okay.  

>> SPEAKER: We did review local ordinances.  And has approved 13 special exceptions for communication towers out of those.  We got waivers to single-family residence setbacks.  Five of the eight weavers were between 505 50.  We do see it established pattern of giving waivers for residential setbacks.  We looked at the 16 cities.  Only three cities have a setback that is 1000 feet or more which is what the code is.  The majority look at the tower height for setbacks.  1 to 3 times of the tower height.  The applicant did submit some additional information.  I believe it was yesterday.  And they are here to talk about, they looked at different places on the site and if there was a way to cite it so it wouldn't be as close to the nearest house which is 748 feet away.  The applicant is here if you want to talk about that study.  Should be available on the supplemental information on the agenda item as well.  They provided three different locations and they were having a difficult time finding another place for it to be.  I know that there was a lot of back-and-forth with the neighbors.  I will let the applicant follow up with that.  Is I understand, there is still opposition.  And I and sorry, this is a quasijudicial hearing.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Before you go any further, this is because I judicial if anyone has any ex parte to declare please do so now.  

>> DANNY ROBINS: I did have conversation with the applicant in a couple of residents that were concerned about the fall radius I guess you would call it.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Did you have a question for staff yet?  

>> TROY KENT: Actually, it is for the applicant.  Just trying to see our biggest concern or my biggest concern was the feet away and the houses that is what I am hearing from the residence.  I will note it is just the residence close by.  They don't want this falling on the house.  Who would.  Where we able to remedy this work, but the possible solution or something to diffuse that?  

>> SPEAKER: Joe Posey, attorney for the applicant.  We made our best attempt to be honest with you.  We looked and gave every neighbor an opportunity to cite a location on the property as an alternative.  The wisdom between mother and this property and another property was a better site, I'm not here to judge but we did it make that attempt.  Into the site didn't get past the carrier.  I submitted letters denying coverage would be acceptable on those properties and they weren't able to achieve the same coverage criteria the carrier was able to utilize.  One of them didn't necessarily get the same denial.  We took it a step further and said now that we have the property, what is it going to cost.  The difficulty with the site is as wetlands that have to be impacted the wetland impacts plus a great way to connect into the property would add an additional quarter of $1 million for just a cell tower.  And so from the perspective, I suspect from the carrier too that it just isn't feasible.  We ran the numbers, we trying to get there.  Three offered just are not feasible alternatives.  Maybe for Councilman Dempsey, just add clarity and context, there was as part of the original application and submittal in the presentation you heard at the last hearing, we went through a full appraisal of alternative sites, we went through and we have the engineers but the structural engineers for the tower testify as to the fall radius and submitted that evidence.  We also had engineer to explain why there is a gap in coverage.  But again, trying to be good neighbors and see if there's alternatives, this site is the site.  I do feel for them one clarity I think I want to make sure is on the record for the knowledges I think there is confusion about the tower prohibiting them from building.  On that is not how the code reads.  This is simply a requirement for the tower itself.  It doesn't regulate the use of their properties.  I wanted to alleviate concerns but for purposes of the code criteria, we are only asking about the waiver and I appreciate the effort staff but in of I didn't see any denial for waivers but the most recent one in 2024 was far closer to the nearest resident than this one.  I do not know the context, but we have a fall radius study from a structural engineer.  We have at least even the additional above and beyond trying to reach and make best efforts we could.  If there is any calamity I'm happy to run through my presentation if you would like me to, but the answer we did make the best effort and we do appreciate their cooperation.  I can understand from their perspective it is something that is different out there.  Is having difficulties trying to bridge the gap.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Were you finished?  Troy Kent.

>> TROY KENT: You know something about cell phone towers?  

>> SPEAKER: Just enough to be dangerous.

>> TROY KENT: It's 2025.  If I was service at my house sometimes I have to get aluminum foil my pinky and learn a certain way to get cell service at my house.  How to President Nixon talked to them on the moon with no delay with all cell phone towers.  I pay attention to it.  I pointed out to my family.  Serious question but not a serious question.  

>> TROY KENT: It is obviously needed.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Jake Johansson.

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: Mr. Posey, a quick question.  Main concerns is still, there is a little bit of view shed but most of it is safety.  Moving it will cost way too much.  Was there any discussion.  I'm sorry if it is in the staff report.  Was there any discussion about delaying our fears by helping them insurance wise?  Would that be cheaper?  We guarantee it won't fall on you but if it does we will help your insurance or something like that.  

>> SPEAKER: That is an interesting perspective the thing we try to reassure them as the fall radius of this is 95 feet.  The closest structure is 750 feet.  From a structural engineers perspective I imagine that doesn't have a statistical significance as to whether there would be damage or it would be an issue to alleviate fears and to continue and try to assist in that way.  I don't know their insurance coverage per se.  I don't have an objection to trying to assist them.  I don't think additional insurance is the way to solve the problem.  I think it is just being comfortable with the fact that there is above and beyond evidence to try to alleviate the concerns and also put them in a position that the worst-case scenario is not on the table.  It is really just how do we find the appropriate spot and after we have found that out of the alleviate concerns in a way that addresses I think the bigger issue which is a general objection to the tower itself.  I'm happy to be at that table but I don't necessarily think I can solve that.  I think we are going to agree to disagree when it comes to the nature of the property is.  

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: I got you.  I am looking for a win-win here.  I flew around after Hurricane Katrina and I saw things that don't belong in People's front lawns and the guy who owned that barge I'm sure never thought his barge would be in a guys front yard to Miles and Lynn., Looking at some way to get the folks to go that is worth it to me.  Just trying to think out of the box and get you where you need to go.  

>> SPEAKER: I think the representation on the guarantee carries casualty insurance.  I confirmed that is the case and if that becomes the stipulation there has to be evidence of insurance carried by the tower.  I don't believe there is an objection.  

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: If the residents concerned are comfortable with that I would be more comfortable with a yes.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Don Dempsey.

>> DON DEMPSEY: If I heard you right, he said the fall distances 95 feet?  But the tower is 100?  

>> SPEAKER: That is correct.  195.  

>> DON DEMPSEY: How is it -- this is a monopole.  When we fall 95 feet out.  

>> SPEAKER: There was an extensive discussion from the structural engineer at the first hearing.  I would refer to the consultant to give a brief synopsis to explain the nature of how it is designed.  It doesn't fall in a static way.  It collapses.  It's the way it is designed.  

>> SPEAKER: Jonathan Gates 1053 South Carolina.  I brought with us the falls own determination.  This is what we call a monopole.  Monopole is a pylon steel structure.  You see a monopole in front of a Hardee's or a Walmart.  Our pylon is built with much thicker steel.  If I can explain the way it is supposed to work and I promise I won't break it.  Think of a strong.  This was designed by an engineer he first designed it to 20 2H standard for Volusia County of 149.  I live on the coast also.  I hope and pray we do not have that wind this fall.  He designed to standard and he designs then what is called the fall, the break point point.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Can you speak into the other microphone?  

>> SPEAKER: In a 500 year catastrophic event what it is designed to do?  Think of a strong.  It is designed to bend over but not really detach.  It is designed to deflect over and he has designed that.  The purpose of that, that contains it on this property.  You want the fall zone contained on the property.  In regards to the other properties, this particular facility is 740 feet.  748 feet away from the dwelling on the property.  We have Mr. beacon find it and it is a factor.  He asked to continue to beef up the steel to achieve that fall zone.  I hope and pray that we don't.  When you see the hurricanes come through, for the most part the top is Tate state intact.  And a lot of times we found if a barge or section a bridge becomes airborne and becomes a missile, that can take out a section.  But it is designed to give with the wind 95 feet.  Why 95 feet?  It has to be contained on the property and he is certified to that.  

>> SPEAKER: Do you happen to know if the one that went down after the tornado about five years ago, was that also a monopole?  

>> SPEAKER: I do not know.  Tornado, if you get a direct hit by a tornado.  But again, what they are designed to do is just come down where they are.  After a catastrophic event the pressure is on.  If a facility has been harmed anyway.  We are under a real push to get up quickly because folks are depending.  After a storm when everything is down folks are trying to let people in the rest of the country know they are okay.  People in the rest of the country trying to see if they are okay.  We have to get them up quickly.  Failure, if it happens think of a strong.  We have to get it back quickly so folks can talk to each other.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: We have three members of the public who would like to speak on this.  Let's hear from them first before we go on.  Robert Brown?  And you will be followed by Greg and Doctor Wendy Anderson.  The two people that can't be here today wanted us directly to the south.  One is directly to the east.  Once it is retired these fixing to put a home out there.  He will get 500 feet away from it no matter what he does and he will not be able to get 500 feet away.  In defense of them I am speaking.  What about what is attached to the tower.  That is a concern of mine.  And also, there is a viable place to get 500 feet away from the nearest house.  It's more of an expense.  I think they spent a minor amount of money trying to locate other places to put it.  They have so much invested into where they are at right now they don't want to change it.  The real estate guy says it doesn't affect the value of your property.  If you can't put a homeowner property, it is pretty much affected.  If they can build and get 500 feet away they can't put a home.  That is what I understand.  They are trying to tell me the 500 feet is just for them building it but if the law says he can't be within 500 feet, you can't be within 500 feet.  That is my concern for my, who can't be here today for the east and the south.  There is another location of Daft up the tower and might cost more but there is a location.  I just don't think they want to spend the money.  And they tell me I can't look and use vision as a way out to not want to.  It is not that we don't want to, but we definitely don't want two pieces of property to be useless because they put it 99 feet away.  Approximately 100 feet to the South.  There is no other place to put it.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  I Thank you might have an answer to that?  

>> SPEAKER: It is called the setback is not reciprocal.  So you can build within the distance of the commissions timer.  It's when the communication tower first goes in, they have to try to be away from the homes.  There are absolutely no restrictions on homeowners building structures on their properties.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  Greg, are you here?  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: Greg, 4721 Lynn Grove Road.  My property is south of where the tower is going.  When we are bringing it and clear for Bobby's house, and mentioned from the base of the tower the clearance from that to my house so I don't know what the distance is going to be.  The other part is if you know Volco road out there, we flowed.  In July I dropped a bunch of packages often had pictures of Volco road if you got them.  That was taken at my barn gate across from the proposed site and that was under two feet of water.  When we get a good storm all the water will run from Cal Creek, everything feeds into Volco in the east end of my property backs up to St. John's, which that is supposed to be the flood zone there.  It is already filled up now.  You saw more water and there.  It is coming back up.  It is kind of a bad area to put it.  I've never heard back from the know we offered a couple other sites.  They need this site here, but looking at the other side on 442 it will be perfectly right across from that may be two miles and do the same coverage they are looking for.  Thank you.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Wendy Anderson.  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: Thank you.  Wendy Anderson.  I live in do land.  I was asked by the homeowners around the property to take a look at this several weeks ago when I did.  I do this for a lot of people because I've gotten known for this.  The first thing I noticed is in the natural resource management area which has extra restrictions for how things can be developed.  The site itself is not technically a wetland.  But the whole area is wetland.  Hardwood hammock and swamp.  The only reason the site is not a wetland designated by St. John's is because it was drained in the early 1900s for orange groves are constrained but the soils are still hydric soils of the structural question for the engineers, thank you for the 90 May 01, 1995 question.  That was going to be my first one.  But how was this thing going to be incurred.  Of course these have guide wires.  What are they sure anchoring into hydric soils, which is the previous gentleman just said, do in fact stay saturated with water for a good bit of the root year.  This is between six and eight feet.  But the whole site is between six and eight feet NSE go East you're going down into 5/4/3 elevation above sea level and it is swamp land.  The soils are soggy and not very stable.  So I don't care if the wind bends it in the middle.  Are the anchors and guide wires going to hold?  I course the nearest house is only 748 feet closer according to the other gentleman.  I am worried about the people who own the land to the east.  There may not be a lot that preempts them building that close to a tower, but this tower is being cited on the east end of the property so if it were to fall to the east it does basically take out about half of the other property owners of building and not have a tower fall on their house.  So I don't know.  The seems like maybe not the best place and if there's another option even if it costs a little more I would recommend they go back to the table on that.  May be too end with a thing I don't believe that I saw on the Internet once.  I do here.  And I know that this, the other people trying to get the tower and won't agree with this.  Cell phone towers will be obsolete in about 15 years but that's probably not true and we do need them between now and then.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  Don Dempsey?  David Santiago.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I moved to approve the exception.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: David Santiago makes a motion to approve.  Is there a second?  

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: Second.  Johansson.  

>> MATT REINHART: And for discussion?  Jake Johansson?  

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: I think I have something.  Not right now.  No, I'm good.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I will chime in for discussion.  While I appreciate everybody's commentary, we get applicant instructions to see if there were alternative sources into address the concerns and they attempted.  We have been in the process long enough when you're trying to combat something.  Peoples concerned.  At the end of the day we need towers.  It is a way of life.  I see it is a life safety.  I'm not a cell phone engineer or a tower engineer and we've been submitted the documentation by people who have these credentials.  I have no reason to question them.  Nothing has been presented to us to question these professionals with degrees to say what they are saying is not true while I'm sympathetic to someone maybe not wanting to see a tower from their yard but ultimately we need these things.  I think it is a public safety issue also and the reward is much more beneficial for a greater amount of population of Volusia County and those that transit through I-95.  I think we should approve this request.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Jake Johansson?  

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: We talk about options and some good and bad things.  One of the things I was trying to think about how to say.  The ground this thing is going to be built on, it was described as saturated.  At some certain point it probably isn't 

See many windfarm built in the water.  Bridge spans built in the water.  Most of San Francisco is built on land that foundational we probably isn't the smartest thing, yet they managed it.  I'm counting on the engineers to do the right thing.  Let's just an argument that doesn't really float with me unless I have some fly-by-night guy building a tower.  I'm good with anything as a engineered and.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Councilman Robins?  

>> DANNY ROBINS: I still share the same concerns as we did before and it's compatibility.  I don't want to beat a dead horse here.  I know everyone is working hard to get to a yes.  But also I see some of the safety concerns of my residence there.  I don't know if I will be able to support this one.  Thanks.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Can you respond to the question about the soil?  

>> SPEAKER: We were actually just pulling it up and we do not see the same evidence that was I guess alleged to be the case on the site.  It has to be built of the minimum standards of the code.  It's not something you exercise to see if it can work.  It's an exercise these things are safe.  It's being designed every criteria on the only question we are asking is whether or not the waiver what is being requested is an applicable waiver.  That is the limited question.  And meets all the other criteria.  Evidence presented.  I do appreciate the neighbors.  If there was a viable site these folks have been open and honest about entertaining that.  I can't in good conscience say go spend another quarter million dollars to impact wetland.  That is not a fair request either and it becomes a question of how long do we move the goalpost until something we'd like.  But wanted to briefly mention that.  I have not heard any evidence to the contrary but I do appreciate them in their candor trying to make this work too.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Here is how I am looking at it.  You set moving the goalpost.  It is Verizon moving the goalpost.  The neighbors thought they had a thousand feet an hour we are being asked to change that.  They thought they had a lot in place to protect them and now we are being asked to change the law.  So it is 780 feet to the closest one.  If they built it is 500 feet.  If they don't want to do that it is their choice.  My question that is really important is I Thank you said there is a donut there.  There's no coverage.  Is that true there is no cell phone coverage or just know Verizon cell phone coverage?  

>> SPEAKER: Is a coverage deficiency in the maps of the street along that area and especially at 95 that there is a drop in coverage.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: For Verizon or everybody?  

>> SPEAKER: Dish wireless, mobile and Verizon.  We also heard where that T-Mobile wants to look at this.  It is what we call a -- not a complete wasteland but poor throughput, or call quality.  It needs to be improved.  Is trying to play off the two other towers.  One over two miles to the north, one over two miles to the south.  We are trying to fill this and again when you go back to the public safety, we want to be able to pull a phone off their hip and call 9-1-1. You have the emergency notification system.  That is really important because it gets information out to folks when a storm is coming.  Maybe there isn't Amber alert, someone has done something bad running off with someone.  It only works if the phone works and that is all we are trying to do.  We are trying to provide adequate essential phone service to the area and access to 9-1-1. First responders, fire, EMS.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: It is true we all want cell phones.  We get frustrated when you don't have coverage and then you run into this and there's a challenge of the group of neighbors.  Troy?  

>> TROY KENT: To the applicant, the gentleman speaking, is a documentation people tried to call 9-1-1 and it hasn't gone through?  

>> SPEAKER: We do not have exact data.  But that average across the country and most consolidated dispatch is 85 percent from wireless phones.  

>> TROY KENT: But my question was is there any documentation in this area that is not a dead zone where someone called 9-1-1 and couldn't get there?  

>> SPEAKER: We don't have the documentation because we don't have coverage in the area.  

>> TROY KENT: One of my pet peeves is sitting a parent having somebody fear mongering if you like that's what you did.  I feel like you do that in there at the end and I enjoyed the presentation until that point.  I didn't care for that because I felt you were trying to pull our heartstrings about when you named 9-1-1 FDEP your phone on your hip and get them there.  If you documentation is a problem we would have had more support but I felt I wasn't disingenuous.  I don't need a response.  

>> SPEAKER: I apologize.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Okay.  I don't see anymore questions 

We've heard from the residence.  Most every email that I have got said we have find cell phone service, we just don't have Verizon.  David Santiago.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I respect everybody's data the use for the decision-making.  Verizon is either the number one of the number two carrier in the nation.  And if Verizon is telling us they have a deficiency in the area, we have half a million residents in Volusia County.  I don't know what percentage they have but if Verizon is telling us.  And is a lot of people.  Not all of them will drive by this segment, but it is still the big segment that is clearly accustomed to this provider.  If they are telling us we have a deficiency in the area, who might the question.  They want to spend money.  I don't know what is going to cost but asked to be a Melvin dollars prickly want to spend $1 million to improve coverage for people in Volusia.  Can you believe we are having this discussion?  I get the safety part in the safety part has to be addressed and done to the standards required.  I wouldn't expect anything different.  I understand the neighbors concerns.  But we have to way that.  Investment to serve more people in Volusia if done safely, which I would expect that, is a no-brainer to me.  Verizon is the number one or number two area.  Let's help constituents improve coverage because they are saying they needed.  It's not like they are asking for money.  They are asking for nothing other than the type of tower and setback which are procedures in our ordinance allows them to ask us.  They are only doing what our procedures say.  I am not A heartstrings guy.  I use those strong words because I listen for that.  And I know that you would look like that.  I picked up on that.  I stepped back and said you know what, they are saying our people need this.  That is what convinces me.  Thank you Mr. chair.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: I would agree with the 100 percent.  Let's build a cell phone tower.  The question is we were told there is not service there.  There is service there.  There is just not Verizon service.  We are being asked to change the law.  The losses 1000 feet.  We are being asked to change that to 780 did change the law so Verizon can have service.  There is self-service there.  No doubt about that.  It is a special exception.  If it was in a thousand feet I wouldn't have a problem but we are changing the law on the people depending on us to protect them.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I think your description may be inaccurate.  I don't think we are being asked to change the law.  I think this is following the essence of our law.  Secondly let's let them tell us right now what is the situation of coverage in the area.  

>> SPEAKER: Joey Posey.  We were just discussing this.  We had a conversation about the same exact issue.  I can't speak to whether it is limited to about the coverage.  I imagine that is the case.  Can you get a call out.  I have no doubt you can.  The question is whether or not we can provide a gap to make sure all residents have the coverage expect that in the event of an emergency it is consistent.  In the event that you go along 95 and you are trying to reach whoever you are trying to reach.  Of the coverages there.  Horizons perspective there is a deficiency from T-Mobile perspective.  I can't speak to other carriers, but I imagine it's going to be the same situation.  You can do this in other ways with satellite.  There's other ways to finagle this to achieve coverage but whether that achieves public coverage, that can't possibly be the case.  Like Councilman Santiago mentioned, if someone who would move into this area to identify and capture the need.  The question we are asking is regarding the special exception is the waiver of the 250 feet.  Is that something we are able to allow to make this happen.  In every circumstance have been able to identify in your staff report.  I believe it was 14.  13 waivers granted for the specific purpose with far more impacts, formal residence, far closer.  Really what we are asking for is the accommodation for the one dwelling to allow the waiver on coverage when we went above and beyond and explored the alternatives to try to address concerns.  If there was an alternative we are happy to do it.  But the one viable alternative requires wetland impacts, it requires other impervious coverages that would be a bigger environmental concern I would imagine for where that tower would be.  I want to make sure those are out there and they were part of my presentation.  I do understand the nature where they are coming from because it is a change.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  Councilman Kent.

>> TROY KENT: Again, you bring a tonic at points to the topic.  The thing I'm wrestling with.  On beyond feeling like I got fear mongers.  And beyond that even though I am still talking about it.  My thing is they are before us because it is a special exception.  Above we are spending the amount of time because we want to get this right.  We want to get it right for the cell phone company, we want to get it right for the resident who took time out of their day to come before us and express their concern.  They wouldn't be before us if they were following all the rules.  There would be no special exception.  And be a staff level check off.  So we have to weigh in on this.  I'm not 100 percent there.  I'm not 100 percent there.  I see your name up.  Just not.  It ways on me that this is a Mr. Robins district and he has some hesitation with it.  Who knows his district better than Mr. Robins.  I don't know.  Anyway.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Councilman Santiago.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Thank you Mr. chair.  This struck me a few minutes ago from the commentary the gentleman made a minute ago was a 13 member number you shared.  There's precedent for this already.  And I think I heard, can you clarify that?  

>> SPEAKER: We have out 13 towers since 2010 and eight of them required waivers to residential homes.  

>> TROY KENT: How many since the elected body has been together?  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I will answer that question.  

>> SPEAKER: Do you mean with the waiver or how many towers in general?  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I think with the waiver.  2023.  

>> SPEAKER: You have had one, two, three towers in one waiver and that was at 540 feet.  

>> SPEAKER: Give me the date and time.

>> SPEAKER: April 2 2024.  255 foot.

>> TROY KENT: Did I vote yes for that or was I absent?  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I Thank you made the motion.  

>> SPEAKER: I did want to clarify.  I apologize.  If you go to page 89.  There isn't all coverage not.  It is very difficult to see.  At least I had a hard time seeing.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Done?  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: No, I'm not done.  I didn't know if she wanted to show us something related to that question.  

>> SPEAKER: I don't know if you can zoom in to the two on the lower right with the green and red.  Or I can circle it.  Find a good color here.  So this is where the new services going to be.  So you see all the red here.  That is the gap.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: The agreement represents the deficiency area.  

>> SPEAKER: The red represents the deficiency.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: The green represents the improvement.

>> SPEAKER: The one that looks like three circles.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: And red represents not reliable service.  Means you can connect but it might not be the best connection.  Your Internet connection might be slow.  All of those things.  If you are in a tree stand or cell phone might work if you need help possibly.  That is a Danny Robbins joke.  The reason I said I don't know if we have one.  But this precedence here.  They pointed that out there is a practice.  We might be a new counsel but what the government does follows S we can do different things but we are held accountable accordingly.  It is going to be done safe.  They want to invest in our community and get better service.  No testimony has been given to me to say we shouldn't do this to improve service.  There is nothing that covers that level.  Thank you Mr. chair.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Except for the neighbors.  We can't just look at there were eight of them improved.  Is another one coming NeXT on our agenda today and it will probably pass because no one is imposing it.  It is shorter but it is not adversely affecting the neighborhood.  And that is what I'm looking at.  Does that fit into our neighborhood?  I don't believe it does.  So that is one vote.  Jake Trent one.

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: I am inclined to approve this based on the comparative table provided earlier.  I said this the last time it came to us that I think the County needs to take a good look at our existing rule or existing ordinance and adjusted to reflect the engineering of how these things fall.  The cities and counties are all over the place.  Summer way far away because they don't want them and some don't worry about it.  Depending on where we are or were they are they may build them without a variance at all or without a special exception.  If 95 percent of 85 percent of the County right now would allow this and willing to take the blame and assume the risk and allow it here with the understanding changes are available in coming.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: I don't see anybody else.  Chris I, would you call the roll in the motion on the table is to approve the special exception.  Motion by David Santiago, second by Jake Johansson.  

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: Yes.

>> TROY KENT: Yes.

>> MATT REINHART: Yes.

>> DANNY ROBINS: No.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Yes.

>> DON DEMPSEY: No.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: No.  But the motion is passed with a yes vote.  Thank you home.  

>> SPEAKER: Can you indulge me.  On item for I apologize but if I could get a motion to adopt the resolution that established the charter.  

>> SPEAKER: Motion to adopt.

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: Second Johansson.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: You need another vote?  

>> SPEAKER: On the resolution.  That actually establishes the charter.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Item six is a special exception for.

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: Do we need to vote?  We have a motion on the second.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Do we need to vote?  I thought you said no.

>> SPEAKER: I apologize.  Does everybody know what we are voting on?  All in favor say aye.  Any opposed?  Now we can go to item 6 at 2:52 special exception for 127 foot tall communication power.  

>> CAROL MCFARLANE: Thank you very much.  Planning and develop services director and this is a quasijudicial hearing so if anyone has ex parte communication please disclose it.  This is at timber Creek.  Just outside the Ormond Beach area adjacent to it.  Is is also in an agricultural area.  It is a 10.9 acre parcel.  For this one there are two homes within 1000 feet of the proposed tower site and the closest home is 505 feet and is owned by the property owner was part of applicant of the case and the other home is the south of it 833 feet away and that is the family of the applicant.  So we have not gotten any public opposition to this.  This is the site plan.  It's a little difficult to see on the screen.  We have the 127 foot tall tower and we have three additional for future carriers.  This one has a crumple point on a fall radius of 60 feet.  The tower is the circle on the upper left-hand corner.  Is on the northwest part of the property.  The planning and land development regulation commission heard this item May 15, 2025.  There was no public participation.  They voted unanimously to forward the County Council with the regulation of approval subject to the waiver to the setbacks.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Moved to approve.

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: Second.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Motion by David Santiago, second by Jake Johansson.  Questions first off?  Any other comments?  All in favor say aye.  This tower is approve 7/0.  Item 7 is also a quasijudicial hearing.  It is a special exception for recreational area on prime agriculture on marsh road.  

>>  Moved to approve.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Second.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: We have a motion to approve by Danny Robbins, second by David Santiago.  Is they are in the ex parte to declare?  Okay.

>> CAROL MCFARLANE: Special exception for recreational area on marsh road.  Again, we have large lot agriculture area.  This is a 10.5 acre parcel.  It is a split zoning prime agriculture A-1 and the RCA that you see in the brighter green is environment only sensitive plans.  They are not proposing putting any part of the recreational area and those environment only sensitive lands which you can see on the site plan is that the use is really pushed down on the southern side of the property.  There is an aboveground pool with the ramp for the dog diving.  They catch some air and jump as far as they can into the pool.  This is the result of a code enforcement case.  There were some events happening.  Competitions, complaints of noise violations, loudspeakers, food trucks, RVs hanging out.  So it was a code enforcement case.  The applicant has since gone to a planning commission March 20 that was continued because there were five neighbors in opposition.  Postponed the PLDRC action to get them time to have a neighborhood meeting.  The neighborhood meeting was April 01, 2025 and the result of the meeting was to reduce the number of annual events to reduce 9-to-5 and to delay the start of events on the weekends.  They also talked about increasing the landscaping on the south and east side of the property.  The last favor is a special exception should be heard again one ear to give the use time to happen to get on board or have an in their decision made.  The third PLDRC meeting was May 15, 2025.  Commission voted unanimously to approve subject to 16 conditions outlined by staff and they added to additions for additional landscaping and for the one year review period.  There was public opposition.  Three comments in support and three neighbors in opposition.  We do have the applicant here.  Staff recommends approval with the 18 conditions.  It looks like they brought the neighbors on board with the plan and they do have a pretty detailed presentation.  With that I will take questions.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Any questions for staff?  Okay.  Danny Robins for comment?  

>> DANNY ROBINS: I just had a comment.  My dog is going to challenge bad boy Doug Lee and he is opted out.  Want to let you know formally the has backed out.  I'm sorry.  

>> TROY KENT: I appreciate hearing that and Dudley is fresh off the surgery so he will appreciated as well.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Are they going to do anything to prevent alligators from going?  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: We have one member of the public would like to speak.  Linney?  Are you here?  Who just brought me this?  She is no longer here?  Okay.  We have a motion to approve.  I haven't talk to the owners but I've heard from a lot of the neighbors and they can't figure out why we would oppose this.  If there is no discussion, all in favor?  Say aye.  Any opposed?  And the dog diving pool is approved 7/0.  Item 8.  

>> CAROL MCFARLANE: The applicant wanted to make a clarification that the one-on-one training described in the agenda item that there may be overlap of more than one dog on the facility if a family has two dogs or if one person gets in a little bit earlier.  There may be multiple dogs on the site.  Very limited during the one-on-one training.  

>> SPEAKER: Are you asking to modify the document?  He is not he said.  

>> CAROL MCFARLANE: So the condition is that one on one dog training happens on the week days between 9:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m.. The way the condition is worded says it allows one-on-one training.  It does not actually mention how many dogs would be in the training.  The limit to the number of dogs is for the events.  That is not something that needs.

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: Not the number of animals.  

>> SPEAKER: That is the modification.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: We need to vote on it because it is different.  I don't have an issue with that.  David Santiago?  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I was up for the next item.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Motion made by Danny Robins, second by David Santiago.  You are still good?  All in favor say aye.  Any opposed?  And it passes again 7/0.  

>> SPEAKER: We wanted that on the record.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Let us know when it happens.  That takes us to item 8 a modification of approved special exception for a sawmill.  Down the street from me.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Point of order?  I move we extend our meeting.  We met our limit, right?  3:45 PM is what it is?  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Hold that motion.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I have another motion.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: We are on item 8. Did you want to address this?  Move to approve.  David Santiago.  

>> CAROL MCFARLANE: Item eight is a modification to previously approved special exception for a sawmill to allow pallet assembly on state road 40 and De Leon Springs.  Just a little bit west.  Is there a section with Lake one on the road?  We have done a lot of homes out there.  Very large lots next to the island conservation area in the Volusia Speedway is on the other side a state road 40.  Zone A-1 agriculture and sawmill is a special exception in the zoning classification.  This received approval in 2023 four and 11,900 square-foot pole barn.  The site plan that you see is for phase 2 which is roughly 57 square feet of buildings, offices, etc. So the original business plan for this was they bring timber onto the site, they saw it down and transported to another facility -- decided to change their plan so they are manufacturing the pallets on site to save time and gas money for themselves.  This is just a modification from the previous approval to allow them to do that.  There was no public participation at the hearing.  There's really not a lot of neighbors out there.  Staff recommended approval and the PLDRC voted unanimously to recommend approval for the County Council.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  Any questions for staff?  An ex partake to declare?  This is a quasijudicial hearing.  Any other comments?  The motion is to improve.  All in favor say aye.  Any opposed?  The sawmill goes in 7/0.  Item 9 goes with item 10 which is quasijudicial.  Were you going to do both together?  

>> CAROL MCFARLANE: Yes.  I will run through the presentations for both cases because you can't vote for one without voting for the other.  But the votes themselves need to be separate.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Let me ask for ex parte now since we are going to be mangling them.  I have talked to their attorney in the developer.  

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: I had communications as well.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Mike Woods.  

>> CAROL MCFARLANE: The first item is small scale conference of plan amendment from the rural future land use designation into an urban low intensity designation on grand Avenue, the Northwest corner of State Road 44 in grand Avenue.  The lighter yellow you see is the timber planned unit development I got approval earlier this year and so this obligation is to take two more parcels.  The first block on the screen and adding those to the existing planned unit development.  This it isn't about the whole planned unit development.  This is about adding to parcels to the development.  If we are looking just at the future land use we are going from a density of one unit per one acre to urban low which is 0.2 to four dwelling units per acre.  A maximum potential yield increase of 76 dwelling units.  However, I will say the next item is a planning development that is only adding 48 unit so PLDRC heard the future land use planning on June 19 and they recommended unanimous approval.  Go on item 10.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Did you have a question on this part?  

>> SPEAKER: Do we have a view of this on Google maps zoom it out a little bit?  I want to get a better idea to see what is surrounding it.  

>> CAROL MCFARLANE: It will just take a second to load it up.  

>> SPEAKER: Is this consistent with the utility boundary and all that stuff?  Services?  

>> SPEAKER: Yes, they are providing utilities.  This is a change to the future land use map to add more area but it is consistent.  It is immediately adjacent and we have the capacity and the utilities and other infrastructure.  

>> SPEAKER: Are we able to zoom out a little bit more?  

>> CAROL MCFARLANE: Are you looking for the train station?  I don't think I can do it on the screen.  You can drag it up a little bit.  There you go.  I think the train station is -- Yep, there you go.  Trying to figure out how to draw it.  It is a little dicey.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Is there an overlay there?  

>> CAROL MCFARLANE: Transit oriented overlay.  In planning there is a walk ability rule of one half a mile means people generally walk if they can.  This development it's at half a mile away in the applicant has a nice presentation put together about how the walk ability of this project in the building of the trail for the missing During the project is going to supply a good walk ability features.  They are also doing loan impact development as well.  Okay?  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Go ahead.  Hold up a second.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Did I hear the three magic letters?  

>> CAROL MCFARLANE: You did.  It is voluntary from the ordinance passed a couple of months ago.  He help not get attention on the low impact of element ordinance they are going to be voluntary elements in this.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: When someone is using the voluntary option put forward.

>> CAROL MCFARLANE: He does have a good presentation to talk about exactly what those are.  And so the purple is the planned unit developments.  You can see the two parcels are being added to it.  The previously approved is what was approved early.  In the proposed lands you can see there adding 19.  Acres, 48 single lots and the overall addition of 8.8 acres of open space.  They been able to have sufficient use so they can really be saving a Lotta green space.  You can see this spring to spring trail used to be on the previous plan going north south along grand Avenue.  I hope we can see it on the presentation.  The trail does meander as it is going north and it turns West and continues along the north side of the property so they would be good improvements that come along with this development.  And this decreases the overall density of the development from 3.08 22.9.  Again, plan planning development regulation heard this on June 19 along with the small-scale application amendment and voted unanimously for approval.  And we have Mike Woods and Shawn here as well.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Are you going to present?  Yeah.  I'm going to step out a minute.  It is not because you are coming up.  I can hear you in there.  

>>  Mr. Robbins, you are recognized.  

>> MATT REINHART: Did you have a question?  

>> DANNY ROBINS: Yes.  I reviewed a lot of the stuff.  He said that there was a net decrease once everything was put together and the number of units.  

>> SPEAKER: For mid-nineties perspective we are increasing from what it currently is.  There's overall increase there but the overall density for the project because we are adding some units but we are adding open space in a tree preservation area drops down in the ratio from our calculation is still the same fraction but we have 48 additional additional lots and so where we were previously at was along 2.85.  We drop down to 2.74.  Really the point of all if that is we trying to do really good project the first time he came to.  We were able to get the additional acreage after he got approved in this is to get a good project and giving it a ballroom.  Rather than going in with a higher intensity of residential units, the same side contemplated 60 foot lots.  But we were able to do is we moved forward pretty far with the project on the L ID standard discussion was underway so we paused it and worked with and for that adoption.  What you will see for the project is the benefit of the siloing the tree preservation, the open space and being able to utilize those areas in conjunction to activate the tree preservation area and the storm water ponds to have overall better project.  

>> MATT REINHART: What L ID practices?  

>> SPEAKER: I can have Sean come up here.  Some of it is word for word for the guidebook.  Some of it we deviate from it.  We are still going to follow from the guidelines.  

>> MATT REINHART: Thank you.  

>> SPEAKER: We are proud of the project but I will go through quicker than normal.  And has been a long hearing.  If you have specific questions and you need to dive down and pause I am happy to do that.  

>> SPEAKER: Just used John Nichols.  If you see him dozing off that means you have gone to long.  

>> SPEAKER: The distinction between what is phase II and phase 1 and what you deal with with any project and then I want to focus on the amenities.  The first to go through with the bike trail.  We are still providing that.  Made that better.  Then we have Sean to talk through the L ID standards and we have a proof of concept we can show you from a project of this developer and engineer have done in the city of Deland.  You can see what L ID looks like in practice.  Where am I pointing this towards?  Okay.  There.  Did I get it there?  So the distinction here 19 acres, 48 additional lots.  Our site dedicated tree preservation increased at our site to TPA area increased as well.  You've seen the aerial photo.  The main point I want to emphasize if it is if you look on the western side those are all the planted pine trees.  The area we are focusing on preserving you can see the wet area and I will show you in just a second.  That is the historic growth were trying to preserve but the trails.  About 18 months ago was how we were walking through it.  We have been working on this for 2.5 years.  What you have now, he of the triangle on the left corner you see where the shape fix up and you can see the additional area.  What it allowed us to do was stretch the north east quadrant would be tree preservation open space and natural area to really be able to stretch that over.  Historic photos, we will get into this a little bit more.  You can see with the addition of property on the north you can see the low points we were contemplating utilizing that we could engineer to encapsulate and keep that on our property but we are able to have more flexibility now to be able to bring the whole Northeast quadrant into a stormwater system.  19 acres is the density.  More elbow room to expand we think this will function as a proof of concept.  Every time I presented L ID to any jurisdiction it's good, it's expensive, it's harder to do.  It doesn't work at every location but at this on it works very well.  But it can't solve everything for all time but when you can do it it can be a win-win for the developer and for the community and for the residents.  The land-use questions we did walk through this when we were talking to the first phase approval.  Is a proximity to the sun rail station.  We are not within the overlay.  That stops at 44, but that overlay didn't utilize the full density provided for under that overlay them with our utilization being as low as it is we think we are well within the scope, particularly since we are connected with the trail system.  You can see here.  I will go through the amenities briefly.  This is the stuff you have to look for for development agreements between before you get into the real L ID but some of these elements are part of it based on how we activate them.  The hammock garden is a hanging garden area if you set up a hammock for outdoor activation where we are leaning into the outer utilization is the selling point for the project.  Multimodal trails pervious and impervious throughout the property.  Where there is green space either rain gardens or bio swells show examples of that.  A big selling point is the bicycle trail.  It's a missing gap in the trail system.  But we enhanced with the gazebos, picnic tables, dog parks.  We have language in there for the decorative water fountain with any what pond as well.  This is what I call the soft enhancements.  Large wetland buffers taken from the LAD guidebooks.  It's the guidance for how to make it functionally better in addition to a statically better.  An additional five percent.  We are well on that.  As far as irrigation controls, education signage.  We got language in there for native plantings.  Not as far as prohibiting or requiring native everywhere because grasses are still point of contention but there that is definitely in there in place in this all gets implemented and verified.  The other things I want to draw your attention to along the northern boundary south of the powerline easement but the trail will run along East West on the northern side.  We will talk about that in a second.  If you look in the middle of the two major blocks with these green court orders.  We are trying to do something different with flowering or fruiting trees.  We think it is something different to give a shot to try to.  It has obviously buffered along the edges with the tree preservation area where it meets those requirements and a lot of green space.  Obviously we loaded the development on the west side because of the typography in the wetland area on the east side.  Just to give you an example I will show you in real life real-time examples with the slides at the end.  This is one of the more traditional ponds but it will have a bias will activate it with a trail at the entrance coming off of 44.  Behind most of the homes is either a bio swale.  Trees along the roadway trail throughout.  Traditional law although we are trying to make it more of an active outdoor area.  This is the bio swells on the ins of the curve in the box where the roadways are in this is the idea the meandering pedestrian area to break up the blocks.  You still the right roadway but to kinda punch there in the obviously we have a dog park on the property and the hammock.  Multimodal trails we are providing a bicycle station for residents open to the general public so you will not die of heat.  We will have a water fountain out there in a repair station.  This is the idea the network of whether it is sidewalk or trails to get to the property.  The line is the main alignment from the bike trail on the grand.  You see the blue line there.  We worded it to allow for staff to make the final alignment subject to avoidance of hitting any big trees in their prickly think it would be better to meander through their but we are giving the stock flexibility with that.  Just for makeup perspective we see how this lines up.  This got approved on the south side of 44 under construction right now with grand Avenue the trail connecting to it.  We picked that up and carried it through.  That is just a frame of reference.  We talked about this first go around.  These are the 26 homes along the east side of Grand avenue in North side of Minnesota.  By putting the trail and to the property and cutting to the left the avoid impact of the homes Minnesota Avenue because one through seven is prescriptive.  There's no right away.  It would be some type of taking if you wanted to bring the trail down that way.  We bring it through here.  It meander since our property.  That is not shown here.  We wanted to show the distance.  Is a gap in go to the North, same developer under contract to build the bike back there.  Walk ability to give you the frame of reference.  We are trying to make sure everyone gets to the property in five minutes.  Traffic I'm happy to hit on that.  All the conversations we had, the additional units don't change the analysis.  We are still in work with the OT and the safety access.  All still the same and in good conditions.  Sean, if you can briefly walk us through the LAD.  Unless you think pictures first?  

>> SPEAKER: Sean 40 with Casey engineering.  I will give a brief but thorough interview.  I wanted to start of the slide because it gives you a big picture.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: One of those microphones closer.  

>> SPEAKER: The County lidar is good for giving a big picture what is going on in the existing condition.  On the west side our property close to the west and you can see the contours fall off as a small industrial facility on the southern end of the Western boundary on the other existing railroad tracks, a few culverts and develop land on the St. Johns River.  We are not too far from the St. Johns River.  North of the greenline is a existing landfill which slopes inward.  Most of the property was discharged to the west so they don't come onto the property.  To the south of State Road 44.  South is the square budget, which there is in the existing basin of the culvert that goes to the property on the east side of the property where we spent most of our attention the of the Circle K.  E. Is Grand avenue and East are existing homes that flow away from the property into existing depressions which you can see on the northeast corner and there is another depression south of that.  Is a rich line running down grand Avenue.  That is a good one.  Actually, go back real quick.  Internal to our project there are a few depressions.  This one to the southwest side of the site and one on the northwest corner which that one is not very deep.  During the storm event more likely flows to the west.  Is a more than likely because this infiltration and these depressions do actually probably holding a lot of water during storm events but that would flow toward St. Johns River.  But the focus has been the central depression on the East side, which adding the North property made a lot of things work a lot better.  Inmate us be able to do a lot more interesting things which I will get to any second.  To start out we are going to meet the new code.  I know that there was talk about that earlier we got the depressional every upper pond.  We are going to try to start from water management criteria.  We will start entire limit is determined.  We are avoiding the impoundments meaning we are not stacking water up the two ponds you saw or with our national depressions now.  And if there is a point where it works out where there is a slight impoundment because we are blocking water we will have the Geotech do it.  We are going to do the ordinance and meet the rules on that.  You mentioned earlier there are parts were going to meet meaning we are going to meet the code which there's a certain amount of elements we have today but there are certain elements because of the size and nature of our project we can't because one is a 10 acre minimum habitat management area which you can do that on a project this size.  We are trying to take little elements and make them into the project even if we can't fully meet it.  But we are going to meet the guidelines in the minimum numbers of standards and then some.  The site is generally made up of a series of swales.  LAD swales and gardens which he previous dimension.  The retention ponds will meet the LAD standards.  The retention ponds you see here were designed a minute.  Everything has been engineered but we haven't put the pencil down.  We keep working on it.  The ponds don't look exactly like this.  They've gotten better.  It's the one North doesn't look like that anymore.  We changed it into a swale into contours and used what we have better instead of building.  That's fine.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Policy one second.  Go ahead.  

>> SPEAKER: We are trying to use natural depression areas where we can pick this valley to that.  Including the wetland in the big depression in the center east.  A couple key points when using those it does help mimic.  We put our final locations were ever there was a natural depression were used in natural depression, which water goes there now so that is where we want to put water there in a proposed condition.  Pretty much all the water flows through some pretreatment system before goes through one of the depressions of the Southwest pond you see there's a lot of swales it feeds into before goes into the pond and we do have checks in place so waters are forced before gets to the pond so it could be lot of rain events the pond overseas water brigade goes into the swales first trying to spread the infiltration is mimicking the existing condition better.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Are you calling that LAD swales bio swales?  

>> SPEAKER: I'm using the interchangeably.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Described bias will so everybody understands in the public.  

>> SPEAKER: There isn't a legal definition.  You can't say everyone agrees on the terminology but in LAD swale is some soil vegetative that provides some kind of nutrient uptake so when the water goes into it vegetation is one of the best ways to absorb the nitrogen and phosphorus, the main thing that does waterways.  It is not just the dry pond, input vegetation and it.  It's my opinion.  You spread them against the site so you're getting the water soaking in the ground as much as you can because we found with the testing that when you put water on dry ground and likes to go into the ground.  The more you can do that you're getting water into the ground rather than concentrating it.  To meet the term bio swale isn't just the biological component.  Is also the infiltration component which I appreciate.  Is usually other components like rocks and things that help disperse the energy.  It is more than a plain ugly pond.  But even then we will try to make our ponds not ugly.  We are trying to utilize natural depressions because that is where the water is going there now.  Anytime we can use the holes there that is less scraping of the earth where we can keep the existing underbrush trees and place them at the water flood what it is flooding and study clearcutting those areas.  The North property helped out on this.  As you probably saw they went up into the North property and that we fully encompass that depression.  Which for us is big because I can store the water where it is currently being stored.  And again preserve more trees.  I stated earlier there was a pond being shown to the north of the pond, which I essentially got rid of the pond and wrapped a big small so I can fully use the natural depression now instead of clearing for a big pond.  I rather use the existing depression is a pond rather than clearing and do a big retention pond.  Again, adding the North property helped us preserve more trees and also store storm water above the code minimum.  There is a wetland there so anytime your discharge in wetland are extra rules and experience in that.  I believe it takes experience in the.  As you will see in some of the other slides, we did the same thing where there was a wetland that we were utilizing for the storm water.  But there are some rules to that your gift to establish the Hydro period and that is where you determine the seasonal low and high so you don't over hydrated.  To do that we have an environmental consultant set pins.  Based on the soils and based on the species of vegetation and other things he observes and then we have it surveyed and then we also model it and we compare our model and if it's close it means the model is accurate.  And then we have to do the proposed model when we have to stay within a certain range of the existing model because we don't want to flood the wetland more than it is supposed to be or like I said to come and try it out.  Before you can use a wetland you have to treat the water first.  All the water go to the wetlands are 100 percent treated in one of the LAD swales or some kind of retention system before it goes into the wetland.  With all that I have elevations for you.  On grand Avenue the lowest point that touches our property on elevation 35.  It's a little bit higher, but we will stick with the 35.  The wetland we are sending most of the water to is currently at elevation 20.2.  We model that wetland in the existing condition to get the seasonal high and it came out 22.5.  I mentioned earlier.  And again, this is 13 to 15 feet lower.  Hydro.  Mike Pence and this came up to 22.3.  Our model is 22.5 so that gave me confidence.  Our model is matching the pins.  We then did a proposed model with all our swales as it stands right now the main annual storm came up to 23.2 that's a conservative number which I will explain in the second.  It's one 7/10 of the existing, which is within the range and makes the wetland in many ways more because it is hydrated.  Do I have permission to go a few more minutes?  

>>  We don't need the weeds for this hearing.  We had enough.  You lost John about 12 minutes ago.  

>> SPEAKER: We looked at the project for many years now.  He's on board making sure any of your concerns are there if you have a chance go out to the new extension and MLK and you can see what this looks like in real life so a project comes in.  This shows your engineered wetlands, your building sites, paths, pedestrians and it works together and it works out well so when you move into a neighborhood we were looking at this prove we are really proud about the project.  I know we got a little wonky on here.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I thought I was at a science fair.  

>> SPEAKER: If you want to give me a blue ribbon that's fine.  We are excited to show this can work for you.  That was my short version.  Happy to answer any questions you have or if there are speakers to respond to.  Thank you for giving us this opportunity.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Questions.  Jake Johansson?  Matt, you have a question or comment.

>> MATT REINHART: I did have a question.  For the engineer.  I don't want to get you going again.  Correct me if I am wrong.  Thank you were talking about the ponds deeper.  Is that accurate?  I always heard.

>> SPEAKER: I was saying we are digging the ponds lower than existing.  We didn't want to impound water.  

>> MATT REINHART: I heard differently.  The others are a comment.  The thought of the LAD swales capturing the fact you were consistent throughout the property statically and looks good too.  The pictures were not on the project but another project.  To go along the lines it looks good.  Anytime you have the plans and foliage and whatnot will do better than dirt or even grass.  I commend you on that.  The other was a question.  Thank you for clarifying.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Did you have questions?  

>> DON DEMPSEY: Of a question for Mike.  You commented on this.  We are standing well with DOT as far as the turn lane.  

>> SPEAKER: We were in conversation right after this got approved working in conjunction to coordinate with all the work being done for S. Grand avenue The of commercial projects there as well but from a turn lane perspective we are in a good place.  Nothing is with the additional units do.  That doesn't take away our ability, it makes it higher but very slightly.  

>>  Just because of the East West coming through that area.  That is important to me to make sure we give it.  And then a comment for, weight for comments for the rest.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Let's wait to keep it questions.  You are using a lot of LAD principles.  Which of the incentives are you claiming?  Density went down.  

>> SPEAKER: I know the standards accomplished is a density.  We are not really using that.  It is more on the D siloing of the open space tree preservation area and activating that and that was the conversation we had at the adoption of the first time forward with we didn't feel there was a methodology to get away from that.  That is what we jumped on from the very get-go.  You can see similar to the project it was the enhancements any lot of the stuff we would've tried to do the first go around we physically couldn't.  It have to be open space and only open space and you start losing it.  To me that is the biggest benefit.  There will be other projects where the density bonus comes in handy, but there's a flip that a few blocks of a certain size you will not yield much more density.  That is the main benefit.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  Was curious.  David, did you have questions?  Danny?  

>> DANNY ROBINS: I want to make sure you can put things to bed ahead of time.  We are not filling in our paving over wetlands.  We get accused on every project.  It doesn't matter what it is.  

>> SPEAKER: We are building around them to incorporate them to do their jobs.  The best picture we have got is a Trinity garden site, but if you come off of MLK you can see engineer pond where there is a smaller pond engineered and then it gets into the wetlands ticket stages in and all of that works in conjunction.  He is designing it to the standards from a volume standpoint but overall it works into a feasible practical element.  

>>  I am diffusing the bone before he goes off.  

>> SPEAKER: This is sensitive to the wetland preservation.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Jake Johansson, and questions.

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: Still waiting for a comment.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: I didn't have a comment but I will make one.  I know you, we met numerous times.  I know you care about what you are doing.  There is no bomb coming because you got it and you got out and designed a project.  We've been chomping at the bit to do a project as long as I have known you.  It was interesting most of the incentives you didn't need.  You to reduce the density.  The question I always had an you answered was can use retention areas or bio swales to qualify.  Is interesting I was the biggest.  

>> SPEAKER: To clarify its for the projects that already been approved as a straight zoning.  We were contemplating putting this and so we laid the foundation early on would be fantastic is if you had a project approved the wants to apply it you will be able to have a product you would in other ways be able to compel enhanced improvements.  You would be able to do that with the LAD standards.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: David Santiago.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I appreciate you bringing up the point.  I don't think it was a bomb from you.  At least from my perspective.  It's a commentary that happens in the fake world called social media.  We can approve a project in the Sahara desert and we would still be accused of filling in wetlands.  Clarity is certainly important to put out there in today's environment especially coming into a political season.  That being said two things happen.  You mentioned LAD anyone into voluntarily.  Want to thank you and your client entered this were those who felt no one would take up the option I knew didn't think benefit from the density bonus even though it is out there.  A lot of people said they want the density bonus.  And secondly what will be on the project is a location.  We invested millions of dollars in the sun rail rate on the road and it is in the same geographical area and we have to do what we can.  We sent to support the sun rail because otherwise it is the continued white elephant that would cost Volusia County residents money.  We have to make it viable.  Thank you very much.  I appreciate the science lesson.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Councilman Johansson.

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: I would like to echo that.  Thank you for doing voluntary.  Know that you started that process when you knew what our new requirements are pre-SB 180.  Thank you for continuing with the post SB 180.  Core samples increase capacity in the retention.  I hope other developers and clients that are developers if there's anybody in the back of the room.  LAD is a beautiful thing when you can make it work and he made it work and it doesn't sound like it costs you an arm and a leg.  I appreciate that a lot.  That goes a long way for me in the future thanks.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Point of order.  I would like to extend the meeting to no later than 5:30 p.m.  

>>  Second.  The next agenda item I would like to bump up.  The recovery presentation.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: The motion is to push the meeting to 5:30 p.m. and to move 16.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I will support that second edition and I ask my colleagues to be brief so we can get through all of them.  I am ready to vote on this one.  I call the questions.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: All in favor of moving the meeting and moving 16 next say aye.  Any opposed?  Jake, where we still on you?  Okay.  I was done.  You answered all my questions.  We do have one member of the public would like to speak.  This will be interesting.  Doctor Wendy Anderson from Stetson University.  

>> SPEAKER: Wendy Anderson program and the land and no bombs.  In the five years I've been standing up podiums across the County and the cities and the County there been three times I've enthusiastically supported a project.  Today is the third.  Every single one of the projects has been designed by Sean.  Is the most amazing engineer.  I wish he could engineer every single project and I wish you could explain every single one it might've gotten wonky for you guys but I was sitting going that is what we have been trying to say.  My only sadness is this is not mandatory.  The only way LID survives is because it is voluntary.  These are such good practices and they really do manage stormwater and natural.  If we could do more into encourage our other developers to buy into this because it does save money.  And it is the right way to do things.  I'm excited to hear about the project today and I know you will approve it because you approve most of them.  But they have done a really good job on this one.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Sean, your rates just went up.  No other comments, no other questions.  Let's vote.  Did somebody make a motion?  

>>  Motion to approve.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Second by vice chair Reinhart.  

>> MATT REINHART: She almost talked me out of it.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: All in favor of item 9 say aye.  That carries 7/0.  We have to go immediately to 10 by David Santiago.  Second by vice chair Reinhart again.  Any questions?  All in favor say aye.  Any opposed?  Nine and 10 are approved.  Good job Michael.  Good job Sean.  

>> SPEAKER: See you at the science center.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Okay.  Are your presenters here?  We are going to move to item 16.  The mighty River recovery presentation.  Does David Santiago have a time limit on it?  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: When John Nichols signals to meet and will keep an eye on them.  Please.  

>> SPEAKER: Counsel, thank you for supporting this idea of getting the mighty River recovery on this agenda.  You will see not just the presentation but if you follow them on social media if you talk to the business on the west side he is a worker.  He does exactly what he says he's going to do and put his money where his mouth is and he is a no-nonsense guy when it comes to this stuff and very passionate about it.  And of these environmental issues, especially water quality and statewide is a huge idea on these guys as he will see her knocking it out of the park and I look forward to the presentation seeing how we can help out mighty River recovery.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Is there a ask to go along with this or just a presentation?  

>> DANNY ROBINS: I may make and ask.  

>>  SPEAKER: Thank you for having me.  I'm Joe, the executive director.  We appreciate you having us in and for moving us up.  We've had a lot of people hear who have been here since the beginning of the meeting and are here to support us.  As Mr. Robins stated, we are a relatively new 501(c)(3) in the area working on the St. Johns River.  Make sure my quicker works.  We are a response to the continued decline and for those of you who aren't familiar with that water quality declines in most of you are familiar with it because you deal with things like the last gentlemen appear presenting about development and you talked about the value of how to treat stormwater.  We have had a lot of declines for a number of years, for decades really that have resulted in water quality declines big declines in fish and wildlife habitats an overall decline in users and interest in the river quite a bit.  Our group established in 2024 has been fast growing and we are in the water doing projects right now to help restore habitat issues and to help improve water quality.  Do I have 10 minutes and that is it?  Okay.  I'm going to move pretty quick.  Little bit there about visual life habitat issues I have some slides and material in here.  The big thing with the St. Johns River is loss of vegetation and if you haven't seen this reported yet you most likely will.  Has been a 95 percent loss in submerged vegetation throughout the river as a whole.  Our group is helping restore that and that is important for users, for fish and wildlife but it is important to other species.  It is important to manatees, eagles, special concern there that you hear about but it is important to know right now none of the vegetation has been restored.  This is a couple of scary facts moving quick.  The lowest catch rates, the lowest sampling data ever and all our major water bodies have occurred in the last five years.  These are FWC numbers.  These are not from fishermen.  These are catch numbers through sampling data with the fish state and game people.  There we have it.  Water quality is a major issue in the St. John's River NSE are seeing reported it is not getting better.  It is often getting worse.  Our maximum daily loads are pointing to problematic issues and some of the support you see on the right talks about algae blooms.  Harmful algal blooms are occurring more now than ever.  They are recurring earlier and they are affecting how much people are able to go out and use the resource.  We water quality issues.  There is a quote of the interrogatories suffer from pollution high levels of phosphorus and pollutants.  Thus from the St. Johns River report from 2024.  So these are real issues and we are concerned about that.  We won't spend a lot of time on but here from spring advocates and that conditions.  Maximum daily loads are in problematic places and they are not improving.  That is the water coming into the river.  We are already left with problems of high nutrient levels and pollution.  Plans are the way to achieve an improvement as the last speaker just talked about.  What you can accomplish with plants is remarkable when it comes to improvement in water quality.  Example uses stormwater treatment areas undergoing the biggest restoration project currently in the world is happening and points are being used in the manufactured wetlands to clean the water and it is being shown by the South Dakota water management District to be some of the cleanest water and resources in Florida going into the Everglades and that is being achieved simply with plants.  They reduce nitrogen and phosphorus in a quick bullet point you might know.  Flat floating plants are shown to reduce nutrients better than any other plant nutrients and chemicals so keep the on the reader as we move in hear the last couple of slides.  My slide got screwed up here, but we have several restoration projects occurring on the St. John's River.  We are involved in all of them.  Their estate efforts occurring, their private efforts.  We have a series of steady effort that are vegetation enclosures giving us a little bit more indication of what is going on, why are we are having such a major decline in vegetation habitats and what we need to do to move forward.  That is shown tremendous interest of the community we would like to move that forward and see what are we going to do long term about improving water quality and really bringing more plants to the river.  That is what we call the citizens enclosure project.  With only group in Florida looking to variables that may be leading to environmental declines including herbicide use, including nutrient buildup in the waterways.  This has a lot of attention.  There's an article in Florida sportsman magazine about this.  We are in the media continuously about this.  Move influential political people, members of the academic community.  With supporters on the water with us, business leaders and they are helping us do the research and are seeing firsthand in a resource and what we are doing to improve it.  This has been something we wanted to do in Volusia County.  We wanted to show we are moving toward a more holistic viewpoint and better care of resource of responding to these declines.  Moving forward a little bit more, one of the main problems and hurdles we see his current management of the river when it comes to client management is the same process that has been happening now for over 60 years.  The Army Corps of Engineers is the leading group that maintains plant management on the river.  You can see from some of the slides.  The condition the current management is leaving the river is making the situation worse.  Because of the rear releasing a lot more nutrients into the water.  We are losing intterest.  We are having more more problems with people concerned about this.  When it comes to our membership and people that follow us, the treatment of plants and current management is the number one concern by far of people that are utilizing the river.  What we would like to see us more dialogue in this regard.  We would like to see more study and more utilization of plants to help get us out of some of our nutrient concerns and to start to work in a more positive direction than what we have in the past.  I constantly in presenting about this and people bring the subject up all the time.  We look at our resources and understand the population increase we have seen since 1965 we have seen a population.  We have seen major stressors as you talk about and see all the time here.  Stresses to the river, urbanization, nutrient concerns, stormwater concerns we are trying to do so much better environmentally and so many different areas, but the one thing that keeps plugging the way the same as the current management practice when you look at a resource and you look at problems and all the stressors what we take into account to keep plugging away in the same way is really goes against the grain of trying to do better.  Little bit about what we are talking about doing in the future as we would like to expand our efforts and see what we can do as far as quantifying the effectiveness of plants restoration of the St. John's River, especially for water quality issues but for use issues, fishing issues, and outdoor recreation issues.  Everything we see tied to that part our community has declined and we see on the things you can't deny on paper when it comes to the ecosystem side of the river is really suffering but yet we really have not put a lot of attention into that.  We specifically made the group to take on this issue.  We set Florida freshwater is not in a positive direction everywhere we look we see declines.  We specifically put together a full-time 501(c)(3) to address what has happened to the St. Johns River over the last 25 or 30 years.  Everywhere we go in the community they are behind us we feel we are in a good point in time to have Volusia County help us essentially lead the state of Florida and addressing major declines in our freshwater resources.  Thank you for giving the time to look into that.  I believe that is about it.  And I made it in my 10 minutes.  [Applause] 

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Councilman Robins.

>> DANNY ROBINS: Thank you chair.  I know we have preliminary talks with staff and correct me if I am wrong.  Are we at a point where we need counsel direction to move forward if we choose to do so whether it is exploring grants, in applications where funding possibly through echo if we choose to do that.  But I encourage everybody to get out on the river and look at the citizen enclosure projects.  What they are doing is working cookie will see grass and just about every one of them that has been wiped out in my opinion over the spring over the last number of years.  Especially toward Lake George.  But these guys every one of those enclosure that has these guys and they want to move it further down.  Enclosure project in Silver Glynis well?  

>> SPEAKER: There are five different vegetation type project throughout the St. Johns River.  In this General middle basin area.  We are somehow involved in all of the mother it is their volunteer efforts with the after BC, partner efforts with the St. Johns River keeper.  The St. John's effort is in the US for service.  The jurisdiction is limited.  There's so many different moving parts between the national forest and National Park Service.  So no, we are aware of that.  We keep updated on dialogue the people doing them.  Most of them are using the same blueprint but that is not our exact project.  Every single projects that we are involved in are in Lake Dexter, Lake Woodruff and [name] But we are somewhat involved in although them.  And ultimately counsel to satisfy the request for help.  Can we explore funding initiatives through grants?  We don't do a whole lot of environmental projects through echo some of the presentations and talks, we do a lot of outward recreation.  This may be opportunity to do that.  It is out of my district and a lot of these folks we are talking about keeping the springs open until we get this figured out.  At the end of the day hopefully we can have good healthy talks about it, but I am here to support his initiative so he says success in the people Volusia County we can benefit.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Was that a motion?  

>> SPEAKER: I need specifics.  Grants I am okay with.  Let me back up a minute.  There are people ahead of me that should speak first.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: You done?  If you want to make the motion go ahead.  You brought a contingency with you?  

>> SPEAKER: We have contingency most places.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: We are going to hear the presentation but I had a couple of quick questions.  I talked to one of your people, it was with FWC a year or more ago.  In the enclosures, you mention the big problem was nitrogen phosphorus about manatees, to lobbyists, turtles because the grass coming back because they are not able to get in and eat it?  

>> SPEAKER: When it comes to the vegetation enclosures, one of the big things we are doing in Volusia County is looking at those variables.  We are testing for phosphorus and nitrogen and sing with the turbidity of the water clarity.  We are also rolling out things like tilapia, manatees, turtles, see how they are impacted.  Our units are looking at these things.  We are specifically testing for herbicides in the water and soil.  No one else is doing that.  The state efforts are doing that, the private efforts not to be not.  We feel it is extremely important to look at the thing holistically is a big picture.  What we have done when it comes to vegetation in the St. John's River has not worked.  There about five years a state efforts to restore vegetation without looking at variables like I mentioned those resulted in no net gain.  We took on the project doing it here to be a more in depth larger broader view of what is going to take.  Restoration may not look like we think it looks like.  It may not look in 2025 what it look like in 1985 so we are looking at all the variables.  Long-winded answer, we are looking at tilapia, manatees, turtles and what we are doing.  We have some data with nutrient data and herbicide data but it is all not collected and not full to say we can report.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Councilman Johansson.  

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: There was supposed to be a presentation and I am looking forward to a great discussion.  It is something that merits but it will take me a lot of time and questions.  They are 501(c)(3).  They can apply for it any time.  Echo is not for operations, echo is for programs.  If they can apply, apply but the length of an echo, we can't just show up and disappear in a year.  We have to be careful how we use the money.  I am all for exploring all of these things.  90 percent can do without our input.  If someone needs to come to us I'm all about it.  I would love to get rid of everything going in our water, including the stuff I put on my grass but without everybody agreeing it is almost worthless.  If we could put on an agenda meeting to discuss after we get the stats from stuff so my motion would be too bring it back with a staff report and find out how we can move forward with this and other things like it to benefit our water.  That's all.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  You put a motion on the floor to have staff bring this back.  Was there a second?  

>> SPEAKER: I am happy to second that but I would like to hear from her.  

>> SPEAKER: Chairman and members members.  Going to use ginger for backup on here, but this is an important issue obviously for the County.  There was at least one slide presented about the blue Springs map and that is what I really want to comment on.  Bringing back a staff report we are engaged currently with the state on their latest BMAP goals, which are very high for Volusia County.  As it has been explained to me even if we were able to take every septic system in the blue Springs area out of service, which is financially impossible.  It would still not meet the goals the state has set for the BMAP and remembering a lot of the financial obligations could fall to the local government.  We are working with the state right now to try to get guidance for them and we will provide background information for you on that.  Herbicide issue frustrating for all of us because local governments have been preempted regulating their sales.  So we are going to work as closely as we can.  We will bring you information.  I want you to know I think Mr. Johansson is right.  We will put you in contact with our staff to see if there are opportunities in the program we can work with you on.  We will also keep in mind any of their grant options that come forward.  From the Council perspective, understand the issue at the state level is significant and substantial.  

>> TROY KENT: I second the motion.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: I think that is the way to do it.  You can bring us back information to get staff to work with them, to work with Doctor Brad on echo.  Because they can do that themselves.  Okay.  The second was by Troy Kent.  There's a Lotta people to talk here.  Go ahead, Troy.  Okay.  Matt?  Before does this address the Gemini area as well?  Would not address the Gemini area?  

>> SPEAKER: That is a separate BMAP area.  

>> SPEAKER: Tonight speak to the BMAP issue?  We spoke about this in the past a little bit in link you were mentioning you are given the numbers for what we are hoping to obtain and it is like is that even obtainable when it comes to the corrections we can make.  That kinda goes in.  We used the slide to show these are the numbers and how we debate with the numbers are is not so much what we are talking about.  What we are talking about is we are dealing with such impaired water to start with that everything we can do moving forward would help the river when it comes to utilizing plants and ways to reduce those nutrients and so we don't have a solution to how we are going to bring the numbers down.  What we are simply saying is that water is coming into the river we need to start doing everything we can to improve it.  In our current methods and management are actually working against that.  And I think we agree on that totally.  I wanted to address so everybody knew it wasn't like we were calling out the BMAP.  Just using that as an example.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Okay.  Danny, do you want to say anything else and then we will go to the public and vote.  

>> DANNY ROBINS: I agree following the process with this.  This gives staff a clear idea of what we are looking for.  I am on board with you guys.  I see what you guys do day in and day out.  It gives us time to regroup and see what's available and help you out however we can in the meantime.  

>> SPEAKER: Thank you all for taking so much time.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: For procedural purposes, I guess I made that up.  We have 10 items remaining and this is a presentation and I know that we would like the public speak as much as possible.  If the members could keep it concise.  Weave to more items to go through and an hour and 1/2 to get done.  That is my personal bequest so we can get to the business.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: When I call your name you have three minutes if you can do it less, do it less.  And if you want to pass, pass.  Is quite a few.  Frederick.  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: I would like to thank you for the opportunity to talk to you today and have us here.  Myself personally 25 years ago I moved to Florida from Western Pennsylvania.  I came here for two main reasons.  Financial future for my family because the fishing opportunities St. Johns River had.  Both worked out for quite a while.  There was a crash, everybody knows that.  The company I worked for sold our branding rights to another company.  I didn't want to go here.  I went to work for Walmart.  Antic until be something you probably don't think about.  It is the financial impact this river has in the land area, Volusia County.  Isael license every day to people from out-of-state coming here to fish.  This was 2010, 2011, 2012.  Talking four or five or six hours a day.  Selling official fishing tackle, giving advice and listening to people talk.  They were staying at the fish camp from Palatka to Stanford.  Is not a small thing.  It is everywhere.  In Lakewood or its self.  When I first started fishing up there, which is a national preserve, it was ringed with hydrilla around the outside.  Bass process any time they had a fishing they came here all the way to Lakewood.  That is a long run.  Well, the FWC who was in control working with the Army Corps of Engineers, they dropped poison pellets from that are in it killed the hydrilla.  That has killed the economy.  We have to do something to stop the way the river is being treated.  You can't continue to spray and kill everything in the river.  To look at other ways.  Their mechanical options, there are other options.  We have to look at it it different way.  We can do it on our own but your help would be appreciated.  [Applause] 

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  David Williamson.  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: My name is David Williamson.  Thank you for having us here and seeing the presentation.  I come as a Coast Guard certified fishing captain, commercial fishermen and a bait and tackle store owner on the St. Johns River.  Fishing has dramatically decreased.  I get clients come in just because they want to fish the St. John's River and I leave there and go do bass fishing because it is better over there.  They have hydrilla, eelgrass, bulrush, all that.  The St. John's doesn't anymore.  We would need help.  We would appreciate anyone's help.  We've been on the ground since the river started.  I'm done donations for them and whatnot.  Any help is good thank you for your consideration and look forward to working with you all.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you very much.  Daniel Bass?  That the good name.  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: Thank you again.  My name is Daniel Bass and I am a Volusia County native, West Volusia.  One and raised in DeBary and made it all the way to Deland.  I have seen this river growing up.  And Matt Abbott kayaker.  Something we love to do on the backwaters of the St. Johns River.  Take nature photography of birds, ducks and things like that.  I can 100 percent site over the last 10 years the duck populations and bird populations have been on a steady decline.  Not only that, the current techniques being used where they are spraying all of this, it is sinking to the bottom of the river.  That is stopping any sunlight from getting into help the grasses grow and it is a safety concern for myself and families kayaker sprig if one of us goes out and that we are up to here in muck.  It is hard to get out of that.  These current techniques they are doing or safety hazards in my opinion, as well as the habitat decline and I just think we can do a lot better job of what is doing being done and what we are seeing happened to the resource that is literally in our backyard.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Well said.  Rafael?  Is Rafael still here?  Greg Lawrence?  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: Thank you.  My name is Greg Lawrence.  I was very fortunate to grow up on the St. Johns River and sometimes I tell people I was one of the last to live a Norman Rockwell childhood.  When I grew up my summertime job is catching crabs and filling them in the local newspaper.  Don't ask me if I had the appropriate licenses.  It was a different time.  The river had waist deep grass from the shore all the way to Jacksonville all the way to the bridge.  It is all gone.  It is kind of a death by a thousand cuts but no one is doing a comprehensive study.  You have a lot of suspects.  We all know the water quality has been impacted in their bid hurricanes and herbicides that have been applied for decades and we have turbidity problem in a muck problem no one is really doing the comprehensive work.  I came across mighty River recovery and I have to thank Joe for his efforts because they are pinpointed on the issue that bothers me, the loss of vegetation.  Is amazing to find a organization that is so finally pinpointed on the issue that I see.  It's one thing to be a national environmental organization of some sort and try to fight thousand different battles.  They are focused on the exact one in one of the one they are using a science.  They are taking this antidotal evidence people like me and others who see the fishing get worse and worse to the point where people aren't coming.  Applying the science of finding out what is in the settlement, what are the herbicides doing.  As County commissioners if applications come across your desk every day that are going to add more people to the County and invariably that hurts the river a little bit.  Does.  We can't help it.  But when you get an opportunity to help with the river, want to talk about leadership?  Want to have an opportunity to help, not just for it a little bit but help the river.  Take it.  That is what real stewards do.  We are going to have the growth, we are going to continue to have run off no matter what we do.  If we can do it scientifically pinpointed directly we should take opportunity to support those organizations.  Whether you are on the political spectrum, staunchly liberal or conservative a benefit to the river benefits everybody.  Mother it is nature for the sake of nature or fish camps and property value.  It is all benefited.  Thank you for hearing us and if you get an opportunity to help the server, please do so.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: When you were a kid what was the price of 12 blue crab?  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: $12.50.  [Applause] 

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Next we have the amazing Georgia Turner.  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: I am Georgia Turner, director for the West Volusia tourism office and it is obvious why am here.  To support my friends of the mighty River recovery.  We had been along with them since the very first to end the efforts to protect and restore the health of the St. Johns River is what we are most impressed with her at West Volusia tourism we view the St. John's us the heart of our tourism economy and we deeply value the work these folks are doing.  As someone who serves on a lot boards and different committees, I'm especially impressed they are putting their money where their mouth is.  They are getting out there and doing the work and issuing.  Any support you can give to them and our presentation we gave to you earlier in the month, earlier last year that was when our main things we were talking about and they have really become an important partner.  Thank you for recognizing them and helping them in the future.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Captain Flowers?  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: Thank you for having us and thanks for the consideration.  I'm Captain Flowers born and raised in Deland 65 years ago and I am a second generation guide charter captain.  It is obvious I have seen the river decline.  I knew, the gentleman before me spoke but I saw the local guides start leaving the area.  We lure them to the St. John's and we shuttled them to another area to take them fishing.  I knew then that we had a big problem.  I'm going to give up a lot of time but thank you for your consideration.  We certainly appreciate it and not only am I an advocate of the mighty River recovery, on the Board of Directors since day one.  I gladly appreciate you guys.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you very much.  Catherine is our last speaker.  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: I will keep it brief.  I support this project.  Thank you.  [Applause] 

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  Okay.  The motion on the floor is for staff to put this on the agenda, bring it back.  We have to keep pushing forward and if he would let us know, right now but if somebody could leave a card or something.  How can us, we as individuals get involved and join you.  I would really like to know that.  They don't want you to.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: It is not that we don't want you to come up we don't have time.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Just leave a card with Carissa, please.  Okay.  All in favor of bringing this back say aye.  Any opposed?  That carries 7/0.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Good project Danny.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you all for coming in.  We will do 11 and 12 together.  Small scale comprehensive plan amendment for urban residential.  12 is a quasijudicial hearing.  Does anyone have X partake to declare on item 12?  

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: Email.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: You did an email.  Okay.  

>> CAROL MCFARLANE: Thank you.  Planning and development services director.  This one will go fairly fast.  11 and 12 together.  This is a small scale comprehensive plan amendment in the rezoning from Osteen urban residential two Osteen transitional residential at 305 Carpenter in Osteen.  So this is a 3.8 acre parcel.  It is surrounded by parcels of similar size and to the southwest a little bit smaller sizes.  Ended his future land use is the same.  Osteen residential and they are going to they Osteen transitional residential.  The OUR residents of a range of 4 to 8 dwelling units per acre so the 4 is the minimum density and the minimum density requires central utilities because the health department will not allow septic systems on parcels that are less than half an acre.  Because of the minimum density this parcel is not eligible for subdivision.  The rezoning and future land use change will result in no minimum density and they would be able to get up to a maximum of four dwelling units per acre.  However, the Department of Health limitation will restrict them to half-acre lots.  So heard this on the June 19, 2025 meeting.  There was no public participation.  This was in a sense a down zoning so the community did not have opposition to this in the planning land development regulation but it unanimously found a consistent and forwarded to Volusia County growth management.  

>>  Motion to approve.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Second.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Motion to approve by Danny in the second by David Santiago.  Any questions for staff?  Comment?  All in favor say aye.  Any opposed.  11 is approved unanimously.  12, is there a motion.  Motion to approve by Santiago, second by Danny Robbins.  Questions for anybody?  Okay.  All in favor say aye.  Any opposed?  We like down zoning.  

>> SPEAKER: Next item I will be quick.  This is an ordinance that establishes the community development District.  Here is approximately where it is located on old New York avenue west of the intersection.  City of Deland utility service area.  And serves the Dean river conservation subdivision, that is a subdivision that has been approved.  230 units, probably less over 217 acres.  122 acres is conservation area.  The conservation subdivision requires a conservation management plan.  The approval does not affect the conservation subdivision.  It is already under construction.  This is just, while it is technically a special-purpose government entity think of it as a financing mechanism.  CDD is all these things you can do if you choose to created.  There are 15 CDD's already existing.  All of them are in the cities.  Their subject is Angela, public records, code of ethics.  Eventually they will be subject to election.  What you're being asked in the petition is for thanks.  Create the CDD, named the CDD, defined legal boundary of the CDD.  Identified the initial five board members and they are asking for two special powers recreation for parks and security in case they want security guards.  It is not a development order in the statute specifically says no debt or obligation to the County.  These are the proposed facilities and services of the estimated costs and operation maintenance entity.  They are proposing to take the roads, stormwater ponds, conservation area and fund the utilities.  This is their proposal.  It is not binding.  Are the statutory factors is about to take into account.  Staff has reviewed them.  It is consistent and seems to meet all the criteria so the recommendation is for approval.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you very much pronouncement Santiago?  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Thank you.  CDD's are great options.  Offers the community a lot more tools and allows for a lower entry point for people to purchase homes.  Movie approve.

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: Second.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Motion to approve by David Santiago, second by Jake Johansson.  Looks to me like it also saves the county some money.  We are going to do their roads?  

>> SPEAKER: The proposal is for that to be CDD roads.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: For an already approved subdivision we are not approving today.  That has been done in the past.  Any questions for staff?  Any other comments?  Motion is to approve creating it.  All in favor say aye.  Any opposed?  So it is six until Danny gets back.  Are you covered for naming and you need to go through all the other things?  

>> SPEAKER: Approval of the ordinance approves everything.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Item 14 proposed a vacation of a portion of section number six.  Tell us about the vacation.  Danny, we just voted on the CDD.  Are you yes or no?  

>> DANNY ROBINS: Yes and motion to approve on 14.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Item 14 is a quasijudicial hearing and there is already a motion to approve.  

>> TROY KENT: I have a conflict so I will be abstaining from the vote.  

>> SPEAKER: What is the nature of your conflict?  

>> TROY KENT: My daughter's property.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: He is already recused.  Does anyone else have X partake to declare?  None?  Okay.  

>> TADD KASBEER: Good afternoon.  Tadd Kasbeer.  This is a request to vacate 18,000 square feet out of two 35 foot rights-of-way.  In the subdivision.  The County has issues with that.  We have no problems with the utilities and we recommend approval.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Motion to approve by Danny Robins, second by vice chair Reinhart.  Any questions by staff?  Any comments?  All in favor say aye.  Any opposed?  It is approve 7/0.  6/0.  You secretly said yes.  Item 15 is the first reading ordinance amending Chapter 72 code of ordinance regarding special exemption uses.  

>> CAROL MCFARLANE: Thank you.  Carol McFarlane again.  This ordinance is per Council request.  This is a widescale change to the zoning ordinance.  The zoning ordinance has every classification has listed permitted uses enlisted special exceptions.  So we are only talking about the listed special exceptions.  There are 137 different uses in the various zoning classifications that require special exceptions and special exceptions go through to public hearings.  One of planning and land development and one with Council.  The purpose of the ordinance is to reduce the number of public hearings for the 137 special exceptions.  Going to go as fast as I can while giving any information necessary, but for most of the uses what we have come up with in the end is a reduction in the amount of time to process the applications by up to 2.5 months.  The whole ordinance is based on reducing regulations.  We were very careful nothing we were doing is more restrictive consistent with Senate Bill 180 in that respect.  As I previously said there is the permitted by right which is the use of special exceptions.  Is 1/3 time called conditional uses.  Backyard chickens and food trucks that are only approved by staff so they don't go to the Council level.  Those are the three types of uses we have that we work on.  This ordinance has gone through five public workshops.  This is the sixth workshop on Fairbury six, 2024 staff took the approach we wanted to take the Council to get an idea of the structure of the ordinance.  What we came up with was there would be instead of the three types of uses there are four types.  For certain uses that have life safety or quality of life concerns such as junkyards and borough pits, those who and maintain approval through County Council.  They would get the two workshops with PLDRC and County Council.  For the type that uses that may have compatibility issues and may have an impact on property value or have nuisances, those will now only go to the PLDRC.  Those are things like kennels and self storage units.  The third type of the conditional uses.  These are uses for the nuisances can be controlled and managed by meeting special criteria.  It's a special permit approved by County staff on the fourth category is the by right uses in the tactic we took on that is if current regulations can control in a nuisances staff should have the ability to approve those as well.  The second public workshop was with the PLDRC and what we did was we took all 137 uses and put it into an Excel spreadsheet.  You should have these 11 by 17 on your desk.  It is kind of the cheat sheet for the whole ordinance.  What you will see is the special exception uses for on the left is a column that shows which classification use is allowed by right.  The third column are zoning classifications were those are allowed by special exception on the right-hand side we recommended who the approving body should be.  We have broken them up so all the special exception uses are grouped in colored light green in the same with conditional uses are kind of like a light pink.  PLDRC is blue and the County Council are light orange.  We showed that spreadsheet on March 21, 2024.  They made certain recommendations and changes to the spreadsheet.  We made the changes in took at the County Council on July 23, 2024.  Again, there were some movement uses from one area to the other based on your input.  There was another meeting October 01, 2024 with Council where we basically took the spreadsheet we had worked on on July 23 and got confirmation that these were the things we were working with so far that we were on the right track.  When we did our fifth public workshop we also had recommendations.  There is a memo in your agenda item that lays out what their recommendations were.  There were a few uses in the spreadsheet as underlined in red.  Those were the ones the planning commission wanted to change.  At that point after PLDRC.  We draft of the ordinance based off of the spreadsheet.  Made changes based on PLDRC so the draft ordinance is the result of the PLDRC meeting.  Just a quick clarification, one of the components is there is a clarifying statement leased lands operated by the County are exempt from receiving special exceptions because go through the whole process already so we don't also take those to the public hearing.  The ordinance includes updated definitions onto campgrounds the fairgrounds has been asking us for a while to make it set in stone that temporary campgrounds are permitted use that they don't have to get special permission to do those.  And so we added that into the definition section as well as the spreadsheet as well.  What we ended up with our 51 uses that are now going to be by right and that will save applicants 2.5 months in the development process for the 51 uses going from County Counsel by right 11 uses will be conditional uses.  That will save two months in the process.  50 uses are to be approved by the PLDRC.  That will save one month on the 25 uses that remain approved are keeping the same process.  We also had to do some housekeeping with the changes.  There were tables on the landscaping code we had to just change the terms of sentencing special exception use groups we are saying use groups.  It doesn't matter what category it is sin.  We know which ones apply for use.  There are special criteria for these 137 uses found in section 7 February 02, 1990, 293 Las Olas 304 and 309.  We are moving them all into one section.  So PLDRC made the changes starting on page 214 of your agenda item.  The Volusia County Association sent a letter of support for the ordinance.  We did get money Molde there was confusion about whether the ordinance was written to comply.  It was not.  It was at the behest of the County Council we just made a statement that is is consistent with Senate Bill one 80.  Pushed the wrong button again but I guess it is okay.  With that we are here for questions.  We spent a long time working on this.  It was more than a year going through the process and the six public hearings and drafting the ordinance.  Christopher Ryan and Kristin Ray who is not here today, we spent the last 4 to 5 months.  This is really much all we did for a long time.  We have gotten good input from the public on it from the PLDRC.  It was a robust and productive conversation so I want to thank my staff members on the PLDRC for getting us through that and with that we are here for questions.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Councilman Robins.

>> DANNY ROBINS: Thank you.  I know this was a big undertaking.  For you guys to do over the last year.  Just have a couple of quick questions.  Not just for you guys but Council as well.  I know we focused on reducing restrictions and liberty with our property and property rights cutting down the amount of wait time, which I think is probably a lot more than 2.5 months for some of the stuff.  Spending money was getting attorneys.  The list goes on.  Looking at this where we can ultimately save more money.  I like the proposal where it is going but I think we can do better.  If you look at the zoning classifications counsel like industrial stuff, which the whole counsel has said we need more industrial to offset or diversify our tax base.  But if you look through this the only way from local government the federal government to get more industrial list for government to get out of the way.  So here we have business and commercial sites zoned for this that communities were built around for the last however many years.  There are these areas where they are acceptable.  They are few and far between, but we are making them go to this board, go to this hearing, go back to Council.  No, no.  We can't have our cake and eat it too.  If we want to sling that pistol and if we truly want to reduce the size of government and all this bureaucracy that we see, if it is zoned for it in our communities was built on this all the way back from how we grow when the whole thing started, why for all these additional things?  The stuff costs money.  It is an economy killer this will improve property values.  This will help create jobs and help reduce costs across the boards.  I am ready to get better on this.  I will say it again.  I've said it before.  There are some a choice in unincorporated Volusia but all unincorporated Volusia should not be an HOA and we need to get out of the way some interest in hearing what my colleagues have to say and hopefully we can come to better proposal.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I just got a question from Danny.  To be a public comment.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: We do.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Okay.  I will speak maybe after that.  But Danny, can you be more direct what you are suggesting what you want to do?  To see if I support it?  

>> DANNY ROBINS: It is going to be pretty complex.  I would have Council look at the, we know what the hot topics are.  For instance dog kennels.  We have had one or two calls if that was a major case.  There are some areas where cell phone towers are going to be an issue.  Some of the stuff weaken the staff go over it.  Some of the major stuff like your excavations -- where else was it livestock feedlots.  Why do we have that going back to the PLDRC.  So there are certain things where we would have to go down as a unit.  Like the stuff that goes back to the PLDRC and see if we are willing to.  It is too complex for right now.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I get it.  Maybe this is more worthy of a dedicated workshop.  In every single one and then we tell staff bring it back to us to vote on.  

>> DANNY ROBINS: Real quick, I don't want to make.  Listen, I am all for making all the stuff I write but that also wouldn't be right.  There are some things on here that deserve attention and all our areas are unique and that would be selfish is that of us to do that.  I think if we look at the stuff that's a conditional use PLDRC if we could cut the process and have anything is better because we are so anemic.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I like where you are going.  I think it is worthy of a workshop and bring it back to vote on it.  I move we schedule a workshop to go line by line dedicated to this item so we can give stuff direction.  

>> DANNY ROBINS: Second.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Motion to take this to a workshop.  Second by Danny Robins.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: It would take too much time to do it today.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: I agree because I had a lot of questions on this and I don't want to have to hurry through.  It is too important.  Thank you to everybody who participated in it.  We asked you for it.  You produced.  It is a good.  You would questions I am sure along the way and we did too.  Suzanne?  

>> SPEAKER: As a reminder to counsel we presented this list to you before we ever started down the road I'm taking this to PLDRC.  This would not be the first time we are happy to set this again for you to spend more time on it.  It is so late in the day I understand is not appropriate today.  I don't think a workshop is appropriate.  I think we put it on as an agenda item.  If you want to look again line by line we will happily go through that with you.  I think at this point because we were noticed having it in a public hearing format is most appropriate and we will keep working on it.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: And that would allow you to make a decision.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Do you want to change your motion?  

>> TROY KENT: Staff did spend a lot of time on this.  I would be open to support your motion to adopt this stuff as presented.  They made some great headway here, but what we can do we can get this adopted but also too now, cut this pipe down and say now the stuff from the PLDRC.  Can we do better?  And I think that would narrow this down.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I would like to withdraw my motion and let someone make a motion accordingly.  

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: Motion to approve special exemptions ordinance 2025-0 20 as written.  First reading.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Okay.  The motion from Councilman Johansson is to approve as presented here today.  The second by Danny Robins.  Questions or comments on that?  Did you have one?  

>> SPEAKER: I want to clarify that this is first reading so we will have a second reading at some point.  It is noticed.  If you are going to delay the August 19 meeting just that we do so at that meeting for another workshop.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: August 19?  We are not doing a workshop.  The motion is to improve what you've given us.  I'm not there yet.  I have too many questions on it that is what the motion is in second.  

>> DANNY ROBINS: Just to be clear, you would not be adopting it today.  It would have to come back to you second reading to adopt.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Go ahead.

>> TROY KENT: Thank you chairman.  That is why I put my name on the board.  Is going to say can we not do a workshop.  Can George put this on a future agenda where we have at some time.  We vent presentation, multiple that were hours this way we have this.  We can do the homework and we come back to that meeting we can go line by line and get this thing knocked out and it is a public hearing where we can vote on it, not a workshop.  That is all it was going to say.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Okay.  Somebody just disappeared.  Okay.  Your motion, Jake, is to approve this.  Allow it to go to the second reading.  Where changes can be made.  Any questions on that?  

>> SPEAKER: If you need to have a third meeting in do that.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Second meeting is still August 19.  Doesn't have to be a certain time?  Just after 5:00 so we would have to have it in 19 meeting.  

>> SPEAKER: That is what it has been advertised.  When we look at the agenda the agenda conference like Mr. Kent said, we will try to make sure the agenda is such that there is time to do this on.  It may mean moving something else around but we will do that.  Right now tentatively we probably would have time.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: We have until what 5:30 p.m.?  We have three members of the public who wanted to opine on this.  Gary Singleton?  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: My name is Gary Singleton.  There is a reason property owners are required to apply for special exceptions.  There's a reason the process affords neighbors an opportunity to voice concerns about any adverse consequences to be suffered by their community.  By right abolishes this process.  By right and citizen input.  You are elected officials directly accountable to the Volusia County citizens allowing special exceptions to be approved by right or they abolish the right of Volusia County citizens to voice their concerns before the elected body.  It is wrong to silence Volusia County citizens in the name of efficiency.  It is wrong to shirk responsibilities of the elected officials because he find citizen input time-consuming and annoying.  An example, my personal example.  Someone buys a house, residential house in the Farms village.  They transform the home into a church and then they decide to do a K-12 school which is contrary to the local plan covering this residence.  We get this by special exemption there currently we have a voice.  We can bring our concerns and insist you obey the letter and the intent of the local plan.  By right it would remove this means.  He would silence an entire community in favor of making it easier for an individual to exploit their property with no consideration for the consequences to be suffered by others.  I'm going to mention what happened in today over the cell tower and a dog pool.  Someone wanted a dog pool and look at the discussion the community on the concerns.  They brought it to the owners.  The Republic meetings and it was solved equitably.  But with public and citizen input.  Instead of just giving the owners the by right.  This is just one of the examples.  Dog pool consider what that was and compare that to someone wanting to build a pulp factory or a paper mill by right and we can't say anything about that.  We have no say in that.  So I'm against this, I'm against silencing citizens and reducing our ability to input.  Thank you.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  Catherine?  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: Good afternoon.  I'm writing to express my strong opposition to the proposed amendments on chapter 72 concerning the treatment of special exceptions by right uses.  Granting special exceptions eliminates critical opportunities for public input during County Council meetings or residence about a chance to voice concerns and provide feedback on development projects.  This reduces transparency and diminishes the roll of resident shaping the future of our own neighborhoods.  It's especially troubling to government such as motocross facilities and carwashes would be permitted by right out of the changes.  Activities that can impact noise, traffic and environmental quality outward and indie residents must obtain a permit for something as simple and low impact as keeping backyard chickens.  This creates a double standard that favors commercial development on burdening individual residence.  It's essential all uses of potential impacts on surrounding communities retain subject to a fair and open public review process.  The last thing we should be doing is creating fewer permitting restrictions for developers are encouraged to reject changes to chapter 72 and preserve the communities right to participate in decisions that affect our quality of life.  And Q. 

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  Wendy Anderson?  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: Wendy Anderson.  And live in Deland.  I want to thank the staff of the incredible amount of time they put into creating this the five or six public meetings that they have posted to fine-tune it.  Although I appreciate the time they put into it and the fact you have already seen it at least once, I do agree with Mr. Singleton that I think the public input process is really important here I am all about efficiency and streamlining government processes.  I don't like too much regulation but I think it is important to hear from the public, particularly when it is in somebody else's backyard to.  I think that is critical and I would like to see us be more thoughtful.  I'm glad we are going to bring it back in line item it one more time and really consider the impact of all of these things.  Am worried about certain things stopping at PLDRC.  If it needs to go all the way to PLDRC and think it needs to go all the way to Council because Council of the elected officials.  PLDRC is not chosen by the people.  They are chosen by the Council.  There is less accountability of the PLDRC members to the public than there is for the councilmembers.  I look forward to the continuing discussion.  Thank you.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  That ends the public participation.  Councilman Robins.

>> DANNY ROBINS: I had a couple clarifying things.  I will make it quick.  Does the PLDRC to public comment?  

>> SPEAKER: Yes.  

>> DANNY ROBINS: We do have a means for the public to speak.  It doesn't silence them.  

>> SPEAKER: They are publicly noticed as well.  

>> DANNY ROBINS: Is there an appeal process as well?  That way if there is special circumstances or curveballs in the mix it can come to counsel in the event it can't get settled.  

>> SPEAKER: Every decision as a 30 day appeal period.  The difference with the by right unconditional uses is that there would be no public noticing a decision had been made.  So the PLDRC and Council meetings, there is the public notice of people can come and voice their concerns, but with the by right uses we don't have that.  We've been talking to the neighbor letting them know what was happening.  

>> DANNY ROBINS: Say if a developer comes in you can't build multistage subdivision or PUD under a special exception.  You and I know that because we do that every day but that is not the message portrayed out to our community.  Does this favor and developer per se?  What I see in this whole thing is the individual land owner that has this 30 and 40 and 50-year-old wet blanket policy that continues to smother them.  I am glad you are able to answer the stuff and clarify it because it will help us out.  Think we are going in the right direction.  Thank you for everything and everybody's hard work.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Councilman Kent?  

>> TROY KENT: Thank you for your Herculean effort in the years long work you put into this list a special exception uses you have given us, many of them by right.  I will not try to speak for the other members on the Council.  I know I have questions on some of these that will have to be answered.  I will approve it today and at our second hearing that will be an opportunity for us to go line by line and make the changes if we can get others to agree.  In one the public to know I have questions and I'm sure I will get those answers from now until then and I will share those answers at that second reading.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Councilman Santiago.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Thank you for asking clarifying questions whether this is from the initiative because it isn't.  The commentary might have lived that way but it is further from the truth.  The lack of a better term, the Lehmans that really don't understand the process or small business owner that wants to do something in their property.  More importantly what I like about it, correct me if I am wrong, these things are permitted by special exception.  Is already a capability of having that.  Why add additional government bureaucracies to go through it.  At least all the special exceptions I recall staff comes with the checkbox for the type of use for the special exception in those boxes, they are all checked before it comes to us.  Eliminating the steps and cost for a homeowner I would be okay with that.  If we don't like something that should've be on a specific area or parcel under a certain zoning category, let's remove it.  We can put it in there as a special exception, I have additional bureaucracy steps and that the property owner do it.  That we all the neighbors, if they do their due diligence they know what the zoning is if they want to look it up and they will see what are permitted uses in the area.  I am for eliminating bureaucracy let's discuss individual exceptions and created different process for more sensitive things we think we should have this governing body discuss.  I am okay with it and I look forward to the next discussion.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Councilman Dempsey.

>> DON DEMPSEY: I want to nip this in the bud before there is any misinformation going out.  Motocross by right is for bicycle motocross which is BMX, correct?  

>> SPEAKER: Yes and thank you for bringing that up.  The by right is in the business zoning classification and it is bicycle only.  

>> DON DEMPSEY: The motocross we were talking about earlier type of facility is proposed to go before the Council with the public can comment?  

>> SPEAKER: It is the last line based on alphabetical orders.  Speedways motorized vehicle/motocross versus in the zoning classifications approved.  I do want to make it clear that is about a commercial motocross facility.  It does not affect the residential course at home.  That is perfectly fine.  You are allowed to do that now.

>> DON DEMPSEY: That is only have.  Thank you Guy's.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  The motion on the table is to move this to the August 19 meeting after 5:00 p.m. 

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: Motion is to approve the first reading.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Okay.  We can still change it on August 19 after 5:00 p.m..  I think that is important for the public.  I can't vote for it.  

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: I concur.  We are approving the first reading for allowing the second reading to happen after 5:00 p.m.. 

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: All in favor say aye.  Any opposed?  Second reading will be August 9 10th.  

>> SPEAKER: I wanted to make a motion the remaining items get carried over to the next Council meeting and to start Council comments immediately.  Closing comments.  All the other items we can deal with that the next one.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Motion to move the appointments to the next meeting.  A second by Troy Kent.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: If we can take the public comments first and then going to closing comments.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: I have a question before we keep moving forward.  Mr. County manager, you probably have an idea of what is coming.  How does this affect your next meeting?  

>> SPEAKER: The appointments will not be a problem.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: All in favor of moving 18, 19 and 20 two the next meeting and starting Council comments now.  All in favor say aye.  And we had one opposed.  

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: Yes.  I thought the motion was to start Council comments.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I did.  I made a slight edit to allow for the public comment to come in first.

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: Then yes.  I am sorry Carissa.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Okay.  John Nicholson?  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: John Nicholson Daytona Beach side.  Thank you.  Two things on motocross.  For the staff our lease with NASCAR, how do we handle the liability because that keeps popping up.  Secondly with regard to Don, on the property we are considering motocross that would go there is in the small, the medium and large size of the norm.  You go to these events, you see their size of motocross, the properties.  Is this a tiny thing.  Is it on average?  Is it large or something we could have an international size event.  Large?  Okay.  And then also, I've remarked several times on the size and value of Daytona Beach in terms of the economic engine for not only the city of Daytona Beach but the County.  I still believe the County should get involved.  Every dime the city loses the County loses.  We have a CRA.  Nine times they rejected buildings.  Buildings not produced $1 million a year in taxes and they turned them down.  The mayor on his reelection campaign put out a flyer during his tenure he spent $60 million in Midtown.  $50 Million in downtown, $750,000.  The economic engine got less than a million bucks.  I'm asking you to pay attention.  The zones we have now were created in 1970 55 years ago.  They are five years late.  This is a 2020 zoning they are just not doing the zones were changed or modified a little bit in the year 2000.  It was all rate based.  It took them hours to create a race based zoning.  Those are now illegal but they are going to keep the zones because they want to.  Every time they vote and the date side loses you all lose.  All right?  I'm asking you to pay attention because it is money in your pocket.  Not only money for those of us who live on the beach side, but it is money out of your pocket when the beach side and downtown doesn't prosper.  Because they prosper the money comes into the coffers of the County.  Thank you.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  We will now start with Council comments.  Jake Johansson you are first.

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: None.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Troy Kent.

>> TROY KENT: Have a great evening for me.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Matt Reinhart.

>> MATT REINHART: None.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Danny Robins?  David San Diego.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I'm not going to let it go by.  Sorry guys.  Colleagues, the West Volusia Hospital authority we directed our attorney to get information on the status of that and see if we give him guidance on if we want to take any next steps.  

>> SPEAKER: Yes.  So since the last meeting the time to appeal before Supreme Court was after last meeting.  We have no record that an appeal was filed.  So if you would like us to have an agenda item coming up we can discuss at the happy to do that.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Moved to bring that agenda item is offered by the County attorney.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Is there a second?  Any questions?  All in favor say aye.  Any opposed?  Please agenda that item.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I have another thing Mr. chairman.  I want to to throw out there Mr. chair -- God bless you.  This is to all of us.  We were all guilty of this today.  I think we ought to have another discussion, not right now probably, but I think we are all guilty of being all over the place.  Today is an example of our hearings.  We did questions, we did debate, we did discussion, we did cross talk.  We all did.  Out and pointing at myself too.  I think this is why the meeting got to the late point we did today.  We did hold ourselves to that.  Maybe we can talk to it more.  I would really like to see us go back to questions done and then public speaking than motion and debate.  But we have to be disciplined in the fact of once we are done with questions I really think we need to be done with questions.  I know it sucks because sometime something else came up, but once we get self disciplined and trained and better prepared, we will ask our questions during the times we probably should.  Will I get stuck in that?  I will.  If I fall out of it.  I'm not afraid of being called out.  But I think today was a byproduct of us being all over the place and some of these hearings just went way too long because we were not structured.  We can talk about that more.  I wanted to throw my observations out there.  And self confession.  And the other thing is, may be when we do talk about this may be on a meeting where we have time, today we had a presentation from the water people.  Forgot the title.  It was a great presentation.  Glad we put the timer, but I think we should discuss should presentations have public comment?  It's a presentation to us.  We are not voting on anything.  Our meetings are getting stacked we are rushing very important items we have to deal with.  Not trying to shut out the public.  When we vote on something we will have the public peace.  But when we have presentations I don't think we should open it up for all of this dialogue.  It is just not efficient.  I see heads bobbing that there is a yes.  I think we just need to practice that for efficiency.  And I am off my soapbox.  Thank you Mr. chair.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Jake Johansson.

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: Yes, sir.  I was going to talk about the presentation piece, but also I would ask the County manager and the chairman who developed the agenda to some extent to try to speculate what the tough items are going to be in throw them up front.  I know that you all voted a little bit on the fire thing and we heard from fire and we heard from EMS.  More time would have been spent on the during this time if we had time to address some of the public comments.  If we could stack the stuff upfront where we can give at the time it needs, that is important.  Some you can't plan for, I understand that.  Thank you.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  Don Dempsey.

>> DON DEMPSEY: Nothing.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Nothing.  And last, I was going to pass too but answer a couple things you said, David.  Tonight is not the right time to really hash it out, but it was long, disjointed at times for me.  The questions, I look at it is not just a matter of efficiency but a matter of us being affected.  We do questions first and then comment.  Sometimes there are times where as he said, every one of us do it, come back with the question.  I have been allowing that because I think it helps us to get it right.  If it creates a question in somebody's mind, I don't think it means we are unprepared.  We learn from each other, we learn from speakers.  I think limited second rounder question is important.  Time has to be managed but it is not.  It is not everything.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I know you don't want to discuss.  I don't necessarily mind the second-round I questions.  I think we are all guilty of the first-round where we are doing debate, commentary and questions.  I don't think it is fair to the public.  If the public understands this is the steps, they are going to ask questions, staff will present and then we will ask questions and then we opened it up to public and then everybody knows what posture we are in at that time.  We are all guilty of it.  Not trying to point any fingers that you.  I think it is healthier to hold everyone to a standard and then the public knows it and we know it.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: I think we did that today.  I think we had questions and debate and went back and asked more questions.  I'm not going to debate it with you now.  If we want to decide in the future do we have the public speak in the presentation, I think it was exceptional.  It was a very good presentation and I was glad to get the public input from people that are involved.  So the people listening and could hear it because it is such a critical need in Volusia County.  They said it.  Our water is in trouble.  I would give them all the time they wanted to educate us and educate the public because we need to make some changes.  With that at 5:20 PM County manager, we have 10 minutes.  I'm sorry.  

>>  I have only 30 minutes of stuff.  No.  I have nothing.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Deputy County manager?  County Attorney?  

>>  I addressed mine already.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: We are adjourned at 5:21 PM