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Welcome to the County Council meeting.
The meeting will begin in five minutes.
Welcome to the Volusia County Council meeting.
The meeting will begin in two minutes.
>> JEFF BROWER: Okay good morning we will call the September 4, 2025 Volusia County Council meeting to order at 9:02.
We've got a big crowd.
I don't know if everybody is in but it's good to see all of you to address your County Counsel.
I will just tell you how we will start the meeting.
Some of you may be new.
Today's meetings.
And just a minute I will ask you to stand if you care for the invocation and the Pledge of Allegiance.
The invocation is open to all faith groups in Volusia County.
If your faith  group is interested in taking part in the implications before our meeting, just please send an email to Kay Green at Volusia.org.
She will get you all set up to come.
This morning we have the Reverend Darrell from Kofi Memorial Temple will be leaving us in invocation then immediately following we will have the Pledge of Allegiance if you would like to stand.
Reverend, thank you.
>> Thank you for that introduction.
And thank you for the invitation to be here with you this morning.
It certainly is my pleasure.
Please join me in aiming for silence as we assume an attitude of prayer.
Loving and infinite God who watches over all that is, we thank you for your ever presence with us.
We ask that this morning in your presence that you guide our councilmembers as they consider the challenges and opportunities they have before them.
We ask for your support and their collaborative efforts to do what is best for Volusia County.
Its residents and its businesses for today.
Tomorrow and into the future.
We ask this with all grace and gratitude.
Amen.
[Pledge Of Allegiance] 
>> Mr. Reinhart, Mr. Robbins, Mr. Santiago, Mr. Dempsey, Mr. Johansson, Mr. Kent, Mr. Brower.
>> JEFF BROWER: We have a full dais.
Do we have any public participation for the opening?
We do.
You can tell Jeremy we've already taken all that we can.
>> While they are getting ready we will start public participation in one minute.
When I call your name, please come to the podium.
There is a button on the left-hand side that will allow the podium to go up and down because we need a microphone right before your mouth so that we can hear you but all of the people watching online can hear you in the recorded version, people can hear you and when you come up please tell us who you are and where you live.
You don't need to give your full address for safety reasons.
And, we just ask that you talk about subjects that this counsel can do something about, and take action on in a future meeting.
We also asked, "Do you have freedom of speech in America?"
We are very protective of that.
We want you to have freedom of speech.
I just ask you to be respectful of those around you with your language and, you can insult any of us all that you want.
But please be kind to one another and let's work together.
So.
Nobody wants to be first but somebody always is.
And today, it is Adam.
Is it MAHEHER?
You will be followed by Maureen.
>> I'm so disappointed in my country on a federal, state and local level.
I'm here to discuss the blatant corruption of the Volusia office and most especially the chairman who is on the front of a demonic enterprise.
As a struggling addict I stand before you with Almighty God as my witness when Chip was police chief to get our cocaine from the same place.
He is clearly still suffering from the same affliction.
Last September he abused and publicly arrested a 12-year-old boy as a publicity stunt for his political campaign while running against James powers.
I have been a source for six years and have evidence of Mike's involvement with child trafficking and let's not forget about the financial Brian has facilitated with the clerk's office.
The investigation which has elected to delay now for two years he knows these crimes are connected to a much larger insurance scandal of powerful public officials unlawfully collecting on death certificates.
There is a massive problem here in Volusia.
I'm speaking only to the counselor to the audience.
I've Artie handed out a completed citizens complaint form.
All you have to do is spell your name, address and phone number. The Sheriff's office provided a notary sign in front of them and working together will finally read our beautiful town of a very demonic force.
I want to recite Scripture that is close to my heart and keeps me strong and hopefully will give you the strength to submit a complaint against the sheriff.
Ephesians chapter 6 verse 10 through 14.
Finally my brethren are strong in the Lord and the power of his might.
Put on the whole armor of God that he may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
We wrestle not against flesh and blood but the principalities and rulers of the darkness of this world.
Maybe, that you might be able to withstand the evil day and have done all to stand, stand with truth and the breastplate of righteousness.
I've lived here for 40 years.
My narcissistic partner partnered with corrupt  officials who tried to have me murdered.
Mike Chip covered up these crimes.
That is the tip of the iceberg.
The result in my investigation can be located on the website@volusiatruth.com.
I've emailed almost every public official in this town; the only person to ever respond was our County Sheriff Jeff Brower.
I believe he's the one man that wants to help us. We have to make his job as easy as possible and that is up to you guys by submitting these complaints to force the hand of internal affairs because if we don't they will sit on it forever as they have been.
>> Thank you for your comments.
Maureen, you will be followed by Mike.
>> Good morning counsel.
I am Maureen from District 3. I live in unincorporated Volusia County.
District 3 I'm speaking this morning again that I oppose the creek crossing development.
I was recently at a town hall meeting at our country club where people in attendance don't want this developer's dream to become a reality.
You may say there is nothing we can do to stop it.
You can stop it by voting no on chapter 70 to later as our elected representatives you are the power of the people behind you.
I believe economics and money tell a whole story..
I pray to God every morning that our County councils and our staff, yes, the staff will disapprove of the new plans put through by the developers for creek crossing development.
I also pray that each of you if you have not already visited Charles Street and Russell Road in a quiet place in the country to see for yourselves the water flow.
Come to our area without a fellow Council member or staff member as you all know the lawyers and the planning board are appointed members and we have a Florida sunshine law and I believe Jen Albert is the woman to hear not from Ben Bartlett.
Ben Bartlett's information on our website I told them this is not my wheelhouse.
As far as environmental stuff goes.
I don't know why you hired him.
I wonder why you did.
Danny posted on Facebook on the news and community site rose and research management director Carol due to the high level public interest and creek crossing PUD development along the creek they provided a recent update and conversation with the applicant.
Why would County staff meet with developers to discuss possible options?
Developers wish to resubmit the application and proceed as a subdivision under the properties.
Which is not required for rezoning.
The PLRDC on County Road and although many people now have to wait until February because the lawyers have spent a lot of time and money on their proposal.
Really?
Let's not all have dump trucks and cement and more flooding for people.
Please handle this current proposal of creek crossing development with volunteers who know the information.
Each one of you, I'm speaking to you.
Have the power to put a stop to this and thank you very much for listening.
I hope later on I have six with ordinance 70 so that will not be changed.
>> Thank you for your comments. Next we have Mike and you will be followed by John Nicholson.
>> Good morning Mr. chair and Mr. vice chair members of the Council and staff.
My name is Mike and I'm from – Village for your vote on amending chapter 70 to the ordinances means public hearings and zoning exceptions will be eliminated.
>> I believe our rules call for this time only for items that are not on the agenda.
His comment should come when we bring up that agenda.
>> Okay, counsel, what is your feeling about that?
People have come to us that probably don't want to wait all day.
They work but they made an attempt to be here this morning.
>> Mr. Chairman, those are our rules.
Your job is to govern that.
>> My job is to allow the public to speak when I'm asking the Council when it comes to their decisions.
>> Oh based on your pulling of the heartstrings already and I get your strategy.
So, is it going to be two times speaking or are we going to hear everyone right now for that item?
I would like to hear from the Council.
Are you going to follow the rules or not?
>> We are going to hear from everyone. I would prefer to hear from everyone that signed up.
There are seven to 19 people. I don't know if they plan on speaking again but we could do with that.
Counsel what is your – Councilman Kent.
>> I want to follow the rules and be recognized that way. I have not had the pleasure to meet the gentleman speaking.
I have nothing positive or negative to say about him.
But, we have rules that govern this counsel and these meetings.
And the rules clearly state, if you are going to come up and talk.
You can talk about anything you want unless it is on the printed agenda.
At that time we ask for you to please speak at that time.
>> I will speak when the item comes up but I could talk about something else all right?
Great.
Thank you.
So let's talk about local plans.
Local plans are enshrined in the conference of code of Volusia County.
Local plans are plans that citizens worked on for years with councils of the past.
Going back to the early 1990s.
In 2009 smoke Farms village local plan was enshrined in the conference of code of Volusia County.
There are 13 local plans enshrined in County law.
Those local plans project the pristine value of most of the areas that have local plans.
Like the Tomoko Farms village.
The enterprise local plan, the Pearson local plan.
Among others.
There are local plans that don't really have anything to do with the pristine rule of character but these are important.
We fought for those.
We worked with the County councils in the past and the staff of the past to make sure our wishes are protected.
Our lands are protected in perpetuity.
So we need to make sure that whatever you do, however you vote, that those local plans were not segregated to other issues such as changing the code of ordinance.
Such as SB 180 because it is a travesty and the Council and staff you can see there are plenty of them worried about that.
I want to make sure when you vote you understand what you're doing to the citizens that elected you.
Our local plans are important.
They protect our neighborhoods, homes and posterity.
Our children and grandchildren.
That is where they were trying to conference on the code of Volusia County.
It's important to think about that before you vote yes, sir no or in the future.
Because local plans were put in place for a purpose, to protect us, to make sure Volusia County is protected for all time.
If you want to live in Fort Lauderdale go to Fort Lauderdale.
But we don't want caves built on every branch of Volusia County.
You need to preserve as much of that land as possible so that when your kids and grandkids grow up they will want to stay in Volusia County because it has pristine, rural and economically feasible architecture.
Thank you.
I will be back for agenda item 6. I appreciate you listening to me today.
>> Thank you for your comments.
John Nicholson.
>> John Nicholson, Daytona Beach side.
They delayed the rezoning.
The 2020 rezoning.
So we are still under the 2010 zones and have been divided likewise.
Our city, if you look at the map, everything to the left of that dark line is that it has three quarters of the entire city and that is for a reason.
That is where Republicans live, so if you know any Republicans, ask them to have their chair look at why it is okay with the Republican Party to stack all of the Republicans in one district.
Look to the right, Bayside which what Commissioner says is not a community, he doesn't recognize it.
People don't know where it is. Everybody in Daytona Beach knows where the beachside is.
It is divided into three sections.
Guess where the Republicans live?
In those three sections.
They are divided by three.
Everything is done through the racial laws that we had in the late 90s.
It was acceptable to divide things by race back then.
If you all remember it started in Jacksonville down 95 so there were no people in Midtown and Daytona Beach.
Out 90 to Springhill.
Down I four.
To Orlando.
Paramore district.
This court says that's illegal.
Florida's court says it's illegal.
In the year 2000 the city spent 3 and a half hours moving black people around to racially gerrymander our city.
That is no longer legal.
But they went past it.
So I'm asking you to be involved because I've been trying to tell you the values and Daytona Beach.
It is an economic engine.
We have five commissioners now devoted to Midtown.
If we eliminate white people, if we eliminate Republicans it is not legal anymore.
You can do that.
You can gerrymander. I will be asking you to pay attention.
I'm also calling out the candidate.
Jim France.
Glenn Ritchie.
Several others.
These people with power can ignore this anymore.
His holding back the city.
The city donates 20 million to the Volusia Forever program and gets nothing back.
It is an engine for the County.
You have to pay attention.
>> Thank you for your comments.
Jay Schaefer you will be followed by José Rosa.
>> Good morning counsel. I live in Spruce Creek.
I am opposed to the development that is trying to take place between Spruce Creek.
We look at the area of being drained, block the drain in your bunch of water builds up behind it.
There is a natural flow that needs to be kept.
It is the flow or the drain cleared up by number four short of the flea market on East, West for these as they developed, they are running into flooding problems as well.
On the Pioneer Trail that is now being developed in the amount of the square footage of cement and it is not going to allow water to soak into the ground into the aquifer.
It is going to have to be directed in its build up.
These developments are only going to add to the problem and are not going to be a solution.
And eventually you're going to end up with a great big plate in the southeastern portion of Volusia County.
It needs to be looked at very seriously and strongly as to the adverse effects.
It will bring by continuing, paving, building and that sort of thing.
There is a reason why this area is wildlife preserved so to speak.
And all of those wildlife that have homes in this area are going to be crossing through.
And they are going to cause accidents.
I understand some time ago a certain percentage in certain areas for wildlife.
Research.
The whole thing I prefer you to say no.
Thank you.
>> Thank you for your comments.
>> My name is José Rosa from Port Orange and the president of the veterans Museum and education center in Daytona Beach.
Earlier this year that counsel for the County opened up the Volusia County Veterans Memorial Plaza.
I attended that.
A lot of these people attended.
There was one thing missing.
They had no POW chair.
We can't forget that.
The museum is donating to the County and granted a POW Memorial chair.
We are going to try to unveil it on September 19 which is national POW recognition day.
I love the Plaza.
It is sacred ground.
I get emotional when I go there.
I would like to invite the Council to go that day at 11: 30. We are planning to have an unveiling of the Memorial chair. I would like to invite the County and community to go to that event.
It is a very important event.
I'm not blaming the County for not having a chair.
Another was a lot to be done with it but we took off the burden of putting up the chair.
Beautiful chair. I hope the community comes out.
It is very important.
We cannot forget and that is all I have.
Thank you.
>> Thank you very much for informing us.
Staff, if you would – I don't know where Terry is but just send those to all councilmembers.
We conceive we can clear our schedules.
Debbie Forrester.
>> Good morning my name is Debbie, founder and Commander of foreign strong.
Benefiting military veterans, first responders and families in the community.
Monday, September 10, 2001 hundred and 46 people went and slept in preparation for their morning flights.
Too many 606 people went to sleep in preparation for work in the morning.
343 firefighters went in preparation for the next shift.
60 police officers when preparing for the morning ritual.
The nurses went to sleep in preparation for saving lives and went to bed a good boy.
September 11, 2001.
In the blink of an eye their lives were cut short.
In a blink of an eye the world as we remember changed and the world trade center towers went to defining and constant part of the New York City skyline ceased to exist.
Our group will be hosting an event beginning at 8:00 AM after the Southwest corner for not a bridge.
It is across from Ormond Beach City Hall.
The event will begin at 8 AM.
As the ball started rolling on that day, faithful day around 759, that is the beginning of the time of advent.
A wall containing the names of over a thousand victims will be present.
Following the ceremonies if you can't walk, join us for what the ceremony will be putting on.
I encourage everyone to come out to this event or any 9/11 event as this is important to honor the lives lost, to recognize first responders and survivors.
To be reminded of America's resiliency and the compassion to emerge even during times of great suffering.
Our group is to bring people together.
We are together and be the people we once were on September 12, 2001.
They give for your time.
A special thank you to the Jewish Federation as well as all of these delectable's for helping make these events special.
>> Thank you for your comments and announcement.
Paul Holmes will be followed by Susan Holmes.
Susan Holmes okay.
>> I may be a Volusia County resident.
I also live in Spruce Creek.
I'm going to say a picture is worth 1000 words.
In this picture you can see this is – this is District 3.
Taylor wrote right here is the border for district 3 and Danny Robbins as our representative.
You can see here this is the Spruce Creek fly and the runway is right here.
And here you have Spruce Creek Farms, a quiet place in the country.
And down here is an area that was recently annexed by Port Orange.
That's important for what I'm going to say. I just want to point out that the actual river of Spruce Creek borders on two sides.
It's all through here on the west side and then all across the top on the north side.
So, all of this area is Spruce Creek.
We have tributaries that come off of our land into the creek right here.
This is where the proposed development is going in.
130 homes.
Between Spruce Creek fly and wrap against these homes along the river and then back here, this is to the south side.
There's homes that are included in this.
130 this area is currently farmland and heavy rains. This is like a sponge and it's flooded all the time. They can see it behind these homes here.
Port Orange is also looking at the same time of doing a development here called vintage acres and it's going to be 130 homes.
This is also farmland.
Often the water comes up high here and this is like a leak in the heavy rains.
That is why I think it's important that while you're looking at this project to remember this is going to affect all the surrounding neighborhoods also.
So.
There is also an area here, there is 5 acres of wetlands that they are planning to put homes right over and their proposed development.
And you have committed to requiring developers to contain their own stormwater and post-development and I don't see how that could possibly happen when these waters are constantly going over to get to the creek.
How they can contain their own water and not affect us.
There will be essentially blocking the water and flooding our area.
Please leave the zoning as is so these homes that are already here in these neighborhoods can stay.
>> My name is Paul Holmes.
I am the POA board for the community at Spruce Creek and we have certain criteria or guidelines that we use at our board meetings and as a community and they are pretty simple.
There are three items.
Be neighborly.
Use common sense.
And be transparent.
That is just the way we run our community and we were hoping maybe that would flow over to you guys. It is just a good idea to think about that whenever you're doing something with the community.
So, let's start out with being neighborly.
I don't think these developers are being very neighborly quite possibly and these are my opinions.
By possibly flooding out the surrounding communities.
That's not being neighborly.
That's not being nice.
That's putting profits over the community and I don't think that's what we want to do and Volusia County.
Second, use common sense.
Does anyone know why this whole area has never been developed and there are developments everywhere around this one thread, this one Creek.
Everywhere else is developed.
Does anyone know why?
I will tell you why.
In my opinion, it is a really dumb idea.
Okay?
Developers have been looking at this for years and lots of developers have said no, that's a dumb idea.
Is going to cause all sorts of problems.
You don't build houses on the river.
That is what they are trying to do.
I know we call this a creek but it's actually a river.
When we have big storms we often have them in Florida.
We've had two big hurricanes.
We have the photos and will be showing you.
This is only our first day here.
But we are going to bring you photos and we have evidence this is a 1000 foot wide river.
And that is how wide it is.
It covers all of this land.
These trees that are on the creek.
And it is a creek in this dry season but it's always running.
It is 16 feet underwater.
It is 16 feet right here.
And this development, they plan on putting – there are two tributaries in here.
One of them is called outfall number seven.
And we've been using outfall number seven since we built the place.
And that goes directly into the Spruce Creek River.
And they plan on building dozens of houses on that land.
It is a river.
It is not a little creek.
>> Thank you for your comments.
You will be followed by Deborah Mars.
>> Good morning.
My name is Jill Gallup and I live in Spruce Creek.
My husband and I have lived in this community for 38 years and raised our children here.
I'm here today as a steward of Spruce Creek.
Not just the waterway but the community and land and the communities that surround us as well as to protest the plan around us called Creek Crossing.
Let me begin with something we all know.
Spruce Creek floods.
Anyone who's lived here long enough or even within the last few years has seen it.
The land they want to build on a quiet place in the country is not just prone to cutting.
It's part of a natural system that is meant to flood.
If this falls prey to overdevelopment the stormwater doesn't disappear.
It just flows in a natural progression under roads, indoor homes and our backyards.
Currently our roads and ponds are flooding with heavy rain.
Not to mention hurricanes such as Michael and Milton.
We have seen this countless times before.
Overdevelopment has Artie worsened stormwater runoff and increased flood insurance for working families.
More concrete means more water with nowhere to go.
This is not hypothetical.
This has been proven time and time again and Spruce Creek cannot afford to be the next cautionary tale.
Flooding is not our only concern.
The term conservation subdivision is an oxymoron.
The word conservation means to preserve and protect something.
This will not be the case if our flooding history is ignored.
The name Creek Crossing says it all.
Doesn't it?
I'm led to believe the new bridge required to access his plan to be about two thousand feet long with about 1/3 and a quiet place in the country coming onto Creek Crossing Road which is only 20 feet wide.
The roadblocks will be widened and will encroach on property lines.
Additionally this will need to be a 30 foot wide two lane bridge 15 feet high and the bridge supports will be sitting directly on the wetlands.
What is especially troubling as this is not just any land.
It is part of the Spruce Creek watershed which feeds into one of the few remaining natural Blackwater streams in the state.
It is a delicate, interconnected system disturbing one section risks damaging so much more.
Spruce Creek is an outstanding Florida waterway that must be preserved.
We are opposed to reckless development of scientists, developments and longtime residents who have witnessed firsthand the consequences of poor environmental stewardship and more concrete that gets more flooding.
We ask you, the Council elected to protect us and our heritage and say no to destruction and development disguised as growth.
Saying no to Creek Crossing PUD.
Thank you.
Greg figures for your comments Deborah Mars.
>> Good morning.
My name is Deb Mars and I live in the first creek.
I lived here for 17 years and have family members who have lived in this area for over 40.
I am here today talking to you because I am extremely concerned regarding the development known as Creek Crossing and the impact it will have not only in our community but surrounding communities like a quiet place in the country. You have heard from others about the many environmental reasons why the development in this land is a disastrous idea.
Spruce Creek is on the Florida Department of environment protections list of outstanding Florida waters.
The land filters millions upon millions of gallons of stormwater and is a critical point for the water trade-in for our community.
From flooding, thousands of protected Oaks, some over 300 years old linked by a vast system, will be destroyed.
Protected wildlife including river otters, whooping cranes, gopher tortoises, panthers and vanities will all lose their habitat forever.
You can't get that back.
Permitting the bulldozing and development of this land which is crucial to the absorption of water along Spruce Creek is – and I'm talking to Denny Robinson of District 3 here.
It's impossible to drive in without seeing piles of trees as development has increased in our area so have the corresponding water levels that each storm brings.
I am much less concerned about the wind damage from the hurricanes and I am about the aftermath which brings rising waters that have inflicted serious damage to roads and our main entry bridge.
I cannot begin to imagine the catastrophic damage that will be inflicted on our community and the surrounding communities if the Creek crossing development is approved by you, the very individuals we have elected to represent us.
On a final note.
Please look around the room at everybody wearing red.
We are here representing our friends and neighbors.
Please keep in mind the decision you make regarding crossing development will affect the lives of thousands of your constituents.
When it comes before you please say no to Creek Crossing and thank you so much for allowing me to come before you today.
Thank you.
>> Thank you for your comments.
You will be followed by Elizabeth.
>> Good morning and thank you for the opportunity to be heard here.
My name is Jim and I am a resident of Spruce Creek.
And have been for four years now.
It is a wonderful place and I feel very fortunate to reside here.
By way of background.
I'm speaking in opposition to the development of Cross Creek and I'm here to present a developer's view on that which is what I've been for over 50 years.
I've developed property in New York City, New York State.
Jersey, Texas, Colorado, Turks and Caicos.
And North Carolina.
When I look at a site, I use a scale.
On one side of the scale is what benefits will this development bring to the community.
There are many and they are obvious.
It is going to create a lot of jobs and a tax base for the county.
And there will be service jobs after the place is developed.
On the other side, you have heard and will continue to hear the negatives.
And the negatives far outweigh any possible benefit from this development.
The negative aspects speak of potential but not potential.
Probable devastation this development will cause to the county.
We've heard about the storms of two thousand four, 2003 and to thousand for which I was here for roads that join the proposed development site flooding and flooded for a week or more.
Traffic would have to stop.
We would alternate, good on the middle-of-the-road and let the next guy on the other side pass.
And it's only going to get worse with this development.
There is no other way it can get any better.
And then specifically the road adjacent to the development site, you're going to hear experts today give the opinion that the adverse effects created by the site will haul away across the county from the site east to the ocean as far as water management and stormwater is concerned.
As a smash it, pave it and development builder it pains me to acknowledge there are certain parcels of land that just should not be developed.
They should be left in their natural state.
The site is at the top of the list of those sites.
When developers and land owners failed to act in a reasonable and responsible manner.
It is the obligation, the duty and job of this body to protect the interest of the citizens, residents and voters of this county.
>> Thank you.
Elizabeth followed by Ali.
>> Good morning.
My name is Elizabeth and I live in Spruce Creek.
This is a picture of the last storm and this is our main entrance to Spruce Creek.
This is what it looks like normally.
I attended the meeting on January 14 where we discussed the moratorium on building and it was turned down but during the meeting you did action that was carried by seven – zero.
And I just want to reiterate and remind you of the action that was taken at that meeting.
Do not pursue a countywide imposed Emporium to direct staff as proposed recommendations from.
No building on wetlands, no wetland mitigation bank.
Clearing county and city canals which nothing has been started to my knowledge anywhere near Spruce Creek.
It looks like there is a Beaverdam every 6 feet in Spruce Creek.
Creating a realistic and aggressive plan to purchase low-lying homes.
Low-lying land that consistently floods and turns them into stormwater retention ponds.
To include partnering with FEMA.
The federal government, the state of Florida, cities and to utilize county dollars.
For counsel Java discussion about lands that are near the flooded areas, Spruce Creek where the county can put the water in retention ponds.
To have conversations with cities regarding apartment complexes.
For staff to bring back the feasibility to not allow the land raised for development.
The land where Creek Crossing is proposed is constantly flooded.
I live directly adjacent to Spruce Creek.
And this storm, my home was flooded.
I am very concerned about this.
We don't need this development here.
It's ruining natural habitat.
Not to mention the traffic that we are incurring in Volusia County which is a whole other can of worms.
Thank you for your attention to this matter.
>> Thank you for your comments.
Allie Marsh.
And you will be followed by Rick Weise.
I'm here today to impose the irresponsible growth and overdevelopment in Florida starting with Volusia County and the proposed Creek crossing development next to my community and the airport.
It will be built directly under the paths of the runway where all types routinely and repetitively pass overhead at low altitudes.
I've witnessed a silent, sad nation unaware or dismissive of the safety realities and filing complaints it was originally established as a world war to Naval base.
Air Force noise is not new.
They should have common sense to not move next to an airport if they find it irritating.
Who's to say these new folks and new homes will also file complaints about the noise.
The potential for disastrous flooding is even more serious; the encumbrance of the plan and element states the city will need to continue to take great care to protect  Spruce Creek drainage basin.
It is designated as an outstanding Florida waters by the state and the creek must be developed with more stringent stormwater management requirements.
Hurricanes have done too much damage to list and three minutes but this past July it took only 6 inches of rain. I seriously cannot believe someone looked at that land and thought 30 houses would be a good idea.
I'm speaking out for future generations.
There's a saying that goes: a society becomes great when old men plant trees who say they know they will never sit in.
For future generations by protecting this precious piece of land and turning it into a nature reserve.
Responsible development is one thing but this is not it.
Creek Crossing is hazardous to existing homes and dangerous for our flood prone environment.
Across Florida residents have lost faith in leadership that allows for this kind of overdevelopment.
The projects have become the norm not the exception.
By preserving our historic airport and my grandchildren.
Please do the right thing.
Thank you.
You'll be followed by Daniel.
>> Good morning my name is Rick and I've been here for over 20 years.
I've been in Florida for a lot more than that.
I want to go back.
I'm not a water expert but I agree by saying yes to Creek crossing development for many reasons.
One of them is the air above us.
I lived in Chicago.
I was born and raised there.
In 1945.
The military established orchard airport about 35 miles away. It is a big competence complex in the middle of nowhere.
Architecture study on the restaurant that was inside the – I did that.
Little did I know, many years later I had to go to a listening session.
Where everybody complained about the noise just sprung up in the middle of the community.
Seriously.
It sprung up in the middle of the community?
$400 Million in noise mitigation by the taxpayers to fix those homes.
Ridiculous.
Here I am now in Spruce Creek and I'm wondering, who would build a runway, well the Navy did.
It was a landing field back in the 40s.
And now it is a home development.
As a captain on an airline, I don't remember flying over anybody's houses at three or 400 feet.
Paul will show you right now at the end of that runway is the final approach path.
The final approach path passes within three or 400 feet of that development.
This is traffic – if you can see the slope takes you right over those homes.
The FAA owns the airspace.
Not any of us except the taxpayers of course.
We live under the FA rules.
We are forced to be at 1000 feet or below roughly.
Because of the Daytona Air Force space rules.
But to fly the airplane to take off the land we can be as low as 300 feet or less over those homes.
You don't think they are going to complain about the noise of the airport , are you kidding me?
Noise will be a big issue in the coming years hopefully, that you have to be able to contend with.
I don't know where you will get the noise for the mitigation for those homes.
Not to mention, he did too much of this actually but the safety issue of airplanes on a final approach was taking off.
They go fast, we have over 400 airplanes, a lot of jets, it has been here for years and it's probably not going to change.
Thank you for your time.
Thank you for your comments.
[APPLAUSE] You will be followed by Brian White.
Again, I live in District 3. 1912 Bay leak.
Which is one of the main drainage sources for the flying.
I just want to talk some common sense here.
This is Spruce Creek.
This is our Western plank.
Every inch is covered by this development.
That Paul talked about this is the main, the blue arrow shows the flow of water is right here.
Exactly right on top of that.
It will cover it.
It will block it.
It is the main drain.
It is incomprehensible that this could happen.
The conservation subdivision may be the way to go if you look at the housing on this Artie covers 50%.
50% of it is a conservation area already.
In order to move forward.
It will still block the Western drainage for Spruce Creek for the fly and resulting in flooding but will also cause flooding and other developments.
It is going to require the installation of a 30 foot bridge several hundred feet long; it will require thousands of bold oak trees that provide a natural drainage system.
The destruction of sensitive wetlands and wildlife with no place to go.
Instead of developing and destroying the ecological area, the County should require this land and preserve it for conservation.
This will preserve the hydrological and ethological and that is critical for proper language for adjacent communities to prevent further flooding of people's homes which should be a top priority for you guys.
I invite you as a counsel, each measure to come to Spruce Creek and it will show you what's going on.
You can see the video that we have of this area and the flow of water during hurricane Milton and Ian.
It is absolutely incredible to think that is going to be blocked off by this.
So common sense has to prevail here.
I will reach out to each of you and I will send you an invitation.
We will host you.
You can come as a group or individuals.
Mr. Robbins, we would invite you to come but this is critically important.
As a citizen of just never seen anything like this where honestly to cover the main drainage of development just doesn't make any sense.
So, thank you.
[APPLAUSE] 
>> Brian White you will be followed by Suzanne.
>> Good morning.
I'm Brian White from District 3. I am notifying you of my grave concerns regarding the development of Port Orange which directly borders the Spruce Creek watershed.
As you're aware Spruce Creek is designated as an outstanding Florida water under Florida administrative code.
This designation is the highest level of protection afforded to water bodies in the state.
The law is clear.
No degradation is permitted in Florida water regardless of what the baseline standards are.
The Creek crossing project is currently presented to pose a significant difference for increased stormwater runoff and natural filtration including associated with the impervious surfaces that will be involved.
These impacts are inconsistent with the protections required Spruce Creek would not only violate state law but would also set a dangerous precedent under the Florida water protection framework.
I'm the owner of white family associates which will not certify the organic conservation land ideologically connected to the Spruce Creek system.
As a business owner and land Stewart I am directly affected by this project.
Threatens the help of Spruce Creek and mining operations and business livelihoods and risk.
Organic certification requires strict safeguards and contamination which would result in irreversible harm and loss of certification status.
Accordingly, if Volusia County approves this development without requiring full compliance with protections under state law I will have no choice but to take state action and pursue a relief under Chapter 21 Florida statutes and the environmental protection act.
To join unlawful and enforce protections the law demands.
Florida courts have consistently upheld the citizens affected, and affected landowners have standing to enforce the statutory rights.
The county has both the legal obligation and moral imperative to uphold protections for approving this project in violation of these requirements that expose the county to litigation but would also represent a profound failure to safeguard one of Florida's most economically inconsistent waterways.
I urge you to act in compliance with state law and deny any approval of the Creek crossing project unless and until it is demonstrated with clear independent and enforceable evidence that the project will not result in any degradation of Spruce Creek.
Anything less represents your betrayal of the protections promised by Florida law.
Thank you for your attention in this matter.
To protect our community.
I will send you a copy of this letter in the public record.
>> Suzanne you will be followed by Catherine.
Quick switching and appearance.
Nothing to do with Creek Crossing.
But an important matter.
On April 15 for the environmental resource program it is stormwater and impacts to Belvedere terminals and others.
Emails from January, March and April 2035 are associated with this letter.
We request a public update on the fuel terminal.
The fuel terminal has been an ongoing concern for the residents of the beach in the surrounding areas.
I have a request for a meeting with an attorney – on August 22 and yesterday I heard back from him explaining that he's been out of town, which I understand.
There is no ill intent here to summarize this is a straightforward request meaning and good faith to provide a public update to the residence pertaining to the permit.
Now, the conversation last night went something like this.
The County does not give opinion on items that are not County related.
And this is FDEP.
I'm not asking for an opinion.
I'm asking for an update.
On the County website the page is gone from the main page.
So, if you look at that, that still exists.
You can see that the county has weighed in on other items relating to the fuel terminal that were not so County related.
So kindly, I'm asking for an update on what has occurred this year pertaining to the fuel terminal.
That's all.
Thank you for your time.
I thank you for your comments.
Catherine and you will be followed by Jeremy.
>> Chairman, point of order.
>> I will make a motion. I will make a motion this time if it's okay with your chair to extend audience remarks.
Until we get done with these five.
Second, all in favor, any opposed?
I'm asking everyone to keep to your three minutes.
Go.
>> Good morning everybody.
>> You guys all know me.
Catherine Levinson.
I say that because here we are, almost one year.
We've got a few more weeks until we have this lovely anniversary.
And since hurricane Milton after the three weeks after it took the water from orange city to all flow into us.
Since then, our water has gone down and you are still at hurricane level.
In other words if any rain has happened at all it will be flooded again.
I already have 3 acres but I will probably say three quarters of an acre on this line which I will probably lose.
I guess basically what I'm saying to you is that in three years we have the same flooding that we did and if one storm comes during the season which I've been saying every two weeks to you guys.
We will flat out again.
We have been in for the last three weeks that whole counties are under flood warning.
That's not changing.
It rains every day and orange city still dumps the water into us without regard.
I'm trying to call you a little bit.
What's the plan?
It's almost a year.
We've been coming here almost every two weeks.
>> Jeremy you are going to have to be careful here.
>> Good morning counsel.
3574 here to talk again about the fund and the rollback as a reflection back on my 20 years with this department as a firefighter.
I don't want to see us go backwards with the rollback rate.
I don't want to see them watch people suffer.
I don't want to see fire stations close like we have.
We shut down two stations.
We lost 50 to people and it took us years to build back.
We continue to keep things lean and public safety.
At the last council meeting I didn't have a chance to address the 59 minute response times but I'm here today with my firefighters standing behind me here as well.
To tell you we remain committed to serving this county and the level of services they deserve.
This counsel has been really good the last couple of weeks.
You guys have made steps in the right direction building back better and I do want to see that progress reversed with the rollback.
Maintaining a flat rate on average is 35 per household to keep the level of service we have increasing.
That's not an expense.
That's an investment in safety.
Every household and visitor in this community.
Other counties and cities are doing the exact opposite, trying to keep up with the growth. They are hiring more firefighters and paramedics to improve response times.
Rebuilding and relocating stations.
We can approve the service delivery by adding ambulances to search for a purpose.
We can add drivers to help with water supply issues so they can respond to those emergencies without a delay.
Every delay means citizens wait longer and their moments of need spread thinner across the county.
From modest cost we maintain readiness, protect our community and ensure that no one is left waiting when they call 911.
The decision before you is about the numbers on the page.
It's about people.
Your constituents are firefighters.
Whether they can count on us to respond.
When they dial number one four $35 for housing.
Your answer should be less.
Thank you.
These are the best firefighters in the County and in Central Florida they really appreciate you guys.
Everything you guys have done for us.
So with that, we are headed out of here.
But just remember there are citizens hereto.
>> Thank you for your comments.
You guys and women stay safe today.
Kimberly Mitchell.
Is Kimberly in the house?
Kimberly Mitchell.
I'm just going to say I lived here for 60 years. I am absolutely opposed to the development of creek crossing not just for the neighboring communities but all of Southeast Volusia County.
This property has been said over 300 years it serves as a sponge for the entire Halifax water basin. This isn't just about trees with any development there will be massive flooding for those along the creek and thousands of Southeast Volusia residents.
That soaks up 130 million gallons of rain for every fine 5 inches of rain events.
It's also a habitat for rare species including the crane.
When I looked@fema.org regarding floodplain management FEMA along with wildlife Endangered Species Act directs federal agencies to conserve threatened and endangered species.
The conservation action program promotes conservation of threatened and endangered critical habitat and floodplain.
Please follow their lead.
I want to also reiterate that the protected waterway with the designation Spruce Creek is with the outstanding waterway as Brian White has explained.
My understanding is this has now been changed to conservation development which is extremely alarming with even less safety measures and.
I grew up here and it's heartbreaking.
I remember walking, putting boots on and that was the only way we could walk around our neighbor's water.
As time went on I loved the growth but I could believe what was happening and now I want to cry but when I saw all of the trees cut down I went to my brother-in-law's for this past hurricane, he got flooded in Ian.
The 100 year flood.
In the middle of the night I stepped into a foot of water.
It's going to flood again.
And if everybody keeps building and allowing this to happen please stop the development and definitely creek crossing.
Thank you.
>> David goal and then the last speaker will be chosen.
>> Good morning counsel my name is David and I live in the Creek subdivision.
I am completely unprepared to speak today.
I am a very poor public speaker so please listen to my intent and not my words.
You heard from developers here they stood up and spoke about the Creek crossing development and said this is a dumb idea.
You've heard from a lot of people talking about the watershed and said this is a dumb idea.
You've heard people talking about how the developer wants to change it to a conservation subdivision which is a regulatory concept. It is a misnamed piece of legislation that actually undermines the words of the title of the bill.
The conservation subdivision is anything but the conservation I would argue to vote against creek crossing developments for these reasons.
Also as a community was voted into existence by this very counsel.
Many years ago back in the 80s.
And was reaffirmed back in 1995 under the PUD.
This is the contract between the county and the homeowners in Spruce Creek development.
Part of that contract is that you will preserve the airspace rights at the airport represented in that community.
There's been some discussion about noise.
I know people are sensitive to noise but when I sit in my backyard I can hear the new Raceway.
I can hear the deep Daytona Beach Raceway.
I suffer that noise willingly to understand it is part of the economics of this region.
Part of the economics of the first Creek fly in is it was voted into existence by this counsel.
Your predecessors and has been contractually obligated to you to maintain it as an airport.
Also the drainage of the spruce Creek fly in has been obligated to you to maintain it in accordance to the agreement.
I urge you to vote against the Creek crossing development.
Which would aggregate both of those.
To maintain spruce Creek fly in.
The oldest and busiest private fly community in the world.
It is a jewel.
It is a place that people wish they could come to.
I urge you to preserve it.
By voting against creek crossing.
I see that we also have a new development in Daytona Beach.
Under the finals for the runway at the Daytona Beach airport.
Same situation.
Exactly the same situation.
I urge you to vote against that development also.
And if you listen to the report from Jan over, the hydrologist, she will tell you that development will also contribute to flooding at Spruce Creek.
My final point is, all of these developments including the change are upstream.
On spruce Creek.
From the spruce Creek –.
>> Thank you very much for your comments.
I'd say you handled that public speaking thing pretty well.
>> Good morning counsel.
I came to this meeting to show support for my community, not just Volusia County.
I came to Florida in 1996.
I was a high school administrator for a few of those years.
And lastly my physics professor.
So, getting to the basics.
If you look at Spruce Creek, it is bounded by Taylor Road which basically turns into Mocha Farms Road and Airport Road.
To a point it has already done before, these main affairs will overflow as well.
They impact traffic as well as the business community and all of the streets.
These are not to the point that I predict, but in the years that I've been here I have seen increased development all over those main streets.
Some I welcomed.
Some I didn't.
When I first moved down here, there was cattle.
Quite predominantly on the to mocha Farms Road.
The current situation of the land.
The soil with just the thunderstorms that we have.
This is the rainy season.
Absolutely.
Any hurricane that hits us in the near future I think we are in the middle of the hurricane season is going to be devastating.
To all of the communities it is happening more and more frequently.
The airport has flooded most recently to a point where I think the last two storms were possible.
The police had to close them off.
Pioneer Trail has a sign on it that says this road will flood any time it rains and it's true.
And it becomes almost impossible.
From the air if you look at the state of Florida, when I first came down here with my plane it was absolutely astounding to me how flat the way it was.
>> I thank you for your time and consideration for this matter.
Please vote no.
>> Counsel we have one more card.
She didn't turn it on because of our road. She decided to turn in and see if she could still be allowed to speak. What is your pleasure?
Then the public comment period.
Will be closed after this.
And you are going to have to tell us your last name when you get up here.
>> It's a shrimp shack.
Anyways today the topic of concern is the Creek crossing development which is a parcel located in between a quiet place in the country and spruce Creek blind.
The thing about this property is for many years it's been a wetland and preserves too many animals instead of recreation.
Many developers have tried to develop it before but they have been denied.
And unfortunately it is under attack again.
And this time it is more dire than ever.
Because of all of the recent development of the area this is kind of becoming the last parcel but it is not developed and there are thousands of homes around it that will be flooded if this is developed because right now holds millions of gallons of water that are barely being held back.
The last couple of hurricanes we've had many of the roadways around where we live have flooded and behind my house and is where they've developed the houses 15 feet away.
After every rain storm, sometimes the land behind my house will sometimes lead to problems with the foundation.
And if it is allowed to go through unfortunately there will be a lot of damage done.
Not only to the environment but also to people's lives.
My parents moved here back in the 80s and they built their house in 94.
At that time the original owner of the property wanted to go through our property to develop on it.
They were denied but it wasn't part of the spruce Creek flying.
Now they wanted to go through other people's properties like a quiet place in the spring Creek. It should not be allowed to go to and should be allowed to be a conservation because then they would be allowed to get away with more.
They need to be held accountable and you need to look out for all of the animals that live there.
Not just humans I don't know about you.
I don't want to bear digging through my trash.
Okay?
And the poor dear wandering aimlessly through the neighborhood.
Please keep this in mind on your agenda.
Thank you.
>> Thank you for your comments.
That finishes the opening public comment and we will move to item 1 approval of the agenda. Is there a motion to approve the agenda as presented?
>> Motion to approve.
>> Who was the second?
>> Second to approve any comments ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. Any opposed?
And the agenda is approved seven – zero which takes us to the consent agenda.
Does anyone have an item they would just like to comment on after the vote?
Seeing none.
Is there anybody that would like to pull an item for a vote?
Seeing none.
>> Motion to approve the consent agenda made by Jake Johansson and the second is by vice chair Reinhart.
Any questions, comments?
all in favor say aye. And moves to zero.
Okay.
And that takes us to item 3 which is an interesting item counsel direction for division of corrections inmate farming program.
Director of public protection we will go through this presentation quickly. I note Councilman Reinhart has been looking forward to this with some options that we have for moving forward here, fostering agricultural rehabilitation and mentoring for inmates' new growth.
We have a whole name for it and everything.
What really is the project overview focuses on costs, saving some food security and making sure we have access to fresh vegetables and job skills additionally.
Some other benefits here would be the opportunity to provide the opportunity to be outside for the inmates again, the other programs that this project might be able to generate to really focus on those job skills and then again to offset the jails budget.
We are proposing here to implement this and potentially two phases.
The first we are looking at the easy kind of starter and entrance into this type of program and potentially a chicken program some time with those crops to be able to bring that back and evaluate.
So the first one for the row crops or gardening program to expand what we currently have for gardening because we do currently have two greenhouses and some outside hydroponic areas where we do grow some lettuce currently and we do actually have some mangroves growing that is a three year process but we do have that.
This additional crop that we are proposing is to be able to set aside some area that we have in our current backyard to improve some fencing and have access.
We feel like that would be a good opportunity to go ahead and start the expansion of the gardening program. Currently we spend about $4000 a month on vegetables so we would be looking at least the top six or seven vegetables such as lettuce, cabbage, carrots, potatoes.
All that good kind of stuff that provides fresh vegetables for the inmates which is $4000 a month we don't expect is to be able to recover fully $48,000 a year in the type of production that we have.
But we are looking at about $150,000 for start-up costs and not security for a refrigeration unit and then some recurring costs and the benefit here is we can do that with our current staffing.
This is really just fertilizers and will be able to have some maintenance on and then potential savings we are looking at 100% crop yield from what we are expecting and we work with you having to be able to identify with the best will be looking at about 27 thousand dollars basically to Aramark our food provided for net annual savings here of almost $7000.
Cost about $20,000.
Almost $21,000 to run in with the savings of 27.
So that is kind of what we are looking at as a net annual savings for this again the benefit here is that there is no additional staff, better inmate participation because it will be a fenced area.
We moved to be limited for what is approved for outside work.
There are mental health benefits I go for being outside and working in a garden setting and then also to be able to provide those healthy menu options and offset some of those food costs.
Some access to this is there at a cost.
There is an upfront cost to this and that is the nature of farming.
I'm not going to say what we will be planning for or watching out for in this season but this is a potential always and then an IP.
There is an unpredictable nature of that and there's potentially some impact to other programs as we gear staff towards the program.
The other phase that we would be looking at is much larger, that is a chicken program.
As requested.
Right now we have some area next to the branch jail.
So the other one was at the correctional facility.
We have two facilities as part of the division of corrections.
This would be the branch jail.
This area is not currently fenced in.
A lot of the upfront costs for the security fencing for this area so this is kind of where we would propose it currently we spent about $24,000 a year delivered frozen so we can store them.
This would cost close to – the startup cost would be significant most of that is fencing, security fencing anywhere between 440 to thousand to one $70,000, then the purchase of the chicken coops but the recurring costs here are really what we are looking at so 158 to hundred and 79 that is dependent on the number of chickens we have out there but what is necessary with this program is that we would need additional staffing.
So, with our current expenditure for eggs at $24,000 we would not be able to – those costs.
To the county to be able to do the chicken program.
Some benefits are that we might have some marketable skills that come out of that dealing with the chickens and the availability of eggs but the drawbacks of course is that the costs do exceed the offset for the contracted prices for eggs and then we would need those two additional staff.
In addition to that this is a seven day a week 365 day year type of program.
The staffing word is right now we have made some major strides in filling the vacancies that we have with our staffing right now.
Disc two staff members and they were able to work or called in sick or something like that for the chicken program we would require, we would have to take the security staff which we've seen and Marion County and other places to be able to cover this if necessary because this program doesn't stop.
There is a weekend time.
There are no continuous vegetables and things like that.
Then again the considerations that we have for the season any whether with that.
But what we are proposing here is a timeline.
If we are good with moving forward with phase 1 today we can get that kicked off and started.
As soon as my budget goes through so we can start ordering things in October and getting our security in place, some preparations with the front and purchasing.
We can put some props in the ground as early as January.
Probably March though but we appreciate the 18 month period.
Where we can step into this and see what the benefits are and see what the impact is and then bring something back to you after that 18 month period.
 if that is your desire with that phase too.
What we've seen and other places I believe Marion County primarily gives a livestock option.
They have pigs and cows they deal with.
Some sheep I believe as well.
Some considerations to that is that Marion County does operate and off-site locations, farming locations and we just don't have room on site to be able to accomplish this.
So we would have to consider some different land limitations.
Those job skills in areas where that could be a potential concern that are abundant in Volusia County and just the knowledge base cost that is associated with the lifestyle program but we would bring that back if that is something you wanted to pursue.
That is supposed to be questions in any kind of direction then.
>> Let's just start with questions Matt, you have questions?
Yes.
Can you go back to the slide of the proposed vegetables?
>> You didn't see your favorite?
>> Are you planning on being in corrections?
>> I don't plan on it but I know from being born and raised here and having some pretty hardy background, backyard vegetable crops that we do around the year just wondering are all these going to be done from seed?
>> Yes.
Spicy.
>> I wanted to make sure we have a plan in place to grow them by seed.
It will make things much cheaper and let you all have better control.
I want to just put this out there and ask, these are some crops that do exceptionally well in Florida.
Eggplant.
Collard greens.
I'm thinking of things that people like to eat as well.
Especially here in the South.
Green beans.
Strawberries.
Broccoli.
I just wanted to put those out there and say hey, those are all things I did not see on the list that I think would be wildly successful and extremely tolerant. Everybody thinks that Florida you can go to everything but it is a hot place.
You got to be real careful.
>> We can definitely take a look at that.
What we've based this on is really the use of vegetables that is part of our inmate menu.
Right now we sell this back the appropriate menu for our inmates so these are those that have the best case of being able to provide a cost to savings because it is part of the inmate menu already.
>> How difficult is it to alter the menu to some of the items I just mentioned?
>> We can alter the menu in Marion County and operate their own food program.
We do after nutritionists at work to be able to set those menus we have worked with the University of Florida to ensure that this set of crops we can rotate out.
You know so one is planted while another has grown and the soil and the nutrients in that soil we kind of planned out a calendar in accordance with that and working with the UF extension office.
But we can always look into expanding the crops that we have.
If you have any interest in the things that I mentioned, I would love to hear it.
If not, I would let it go.
It sounds like the government, our hands are tied a little bit behind her back and forth and selling cases of food back real big into letting common sense rule the day and also when they said frozen eggs.
You know, anyway, those are my questions.
>> Councilman Johansson, you have questions?
>> Is there any indication that this program helps with recidivism as well.
Another is a mental health presentation but I like anything that keeps people from coming back.
Is there any study that shows these people?
>> There are research pieces that do address the benefits of farming programs.
But they do tend to focus on the mental health benefits of the farming programs.
Now, in terms of research that is done with regard to recidivism, it does focus on job skills.
So as we mentioned this might be able to generate some other programs like irrigation that does focus on some job skills that are marketable in the community.
But, as far as you know, just the initial program and out there planting and picking.
That is not a high skill you need in the community and not one that would – is not this program specifically would be looking at job skills for what may be something like the irrigation program we are developing on.
Next we do work in hydroponics and we do have a master gardening program.
That then earned a certificate.
>> All right, that's all I have, thank you.
>> That brings up Councilman Robbins for questions.
>> You enter the initial start up cost you also mentioned you have to – I didn't see it there.
You have to add additional fencing, you have to have a cost to a rough idea.
It is going to be a hard selling point with a roof.
It is going to be with a barbed wire house.
Security grade fencing for sure.
Double fencing I believe with the top so it's Geo grade I guess is the best way to put that without getting into too much detail on that.
It would be – it is not a structure as much as it is –.
>> What is our approximate cost?
>> About $25,000 for fencing.
>> What does the road cost?
>> 25,000.
>> The additional fencing, what is that?
>> That is in this.
Yeah, so that is 25,000.
>> And then how much for the actual crops?
>> The crop area, the other cost from that is some equipment.
We would need to purchase some irrigation parts. The total cost for the upfront cost is about 156,000.
A couple of big items and that is also a refrigeration unit.
You don't have the capacity and are currently a kitchen refrigerator but then also a storage shed to be able to store this equipment.
>> And we are at 156,000 and then we have an additional 25 for the road or does not 156 include both?
>> The 156 is the start.
>> When can we expect to get the positive for that if we are at 100%.
$175,000 I suppose.
>> And that's if everything goes right at 100%.
>> Just to clarify, I don't think I express this.
It's in the slide but it's an acre we have to work with in the current backyard at the facility.
We only have that acre instead of the full rec yard because we don't need the additional space for an emergency evacuation if necessary.
>> And we looked at other ways to possibly do this cheaper.
It's like bare-bones without some of these – what I'm trying to get out is the best scenario because I want to support this.
I just want to see the numbers.
>> So one of the things I think you're getting out with the additional fencing because it is a rec yard is fenced right now.
But to be able to get equipment in and out of there.
To be able to remove the vegetables and get materials there, that access road is necessary.
And just the equipment to be able to do the program, so then the fencing and the poor and all that kind of stuff is necessary to this level because we will have inmates of all that are not necessarily qualified or wouldn't have otherwise been qualified to work outside.
The reason we are trying to open it up to as many as possible is we do have a number of other obligations that we've been asked to with our outside approval then having them focused on inmate farming.
But as a good chunk there.
That's absolutely necessary to be able to store the vegetables and things like that.
So we've considered the cost impact of this when we are trying to price ourselves out for sure.
What fund is it going to be coming from?
Irregular general fund?
>> Credit for participating in this?
>> So they currently come out and the game time is calculated.
Anytime there is work there, things would be tracked as a worker.
>> Did they receive any type of pay or credit towards the commissary?
>> We do not pay but the people that are working did not pay the five dollar a day subsistence fee.
>> So they won't get the five dollars for working but they will get the five days worth of credit.
>> So gametime, they would be eligible for.
Because they are working there and programming.
They would have the five dollar a day credit read they would not have to pay that five dollar a day subsistence fee if they are working.
We do that for all of our inmate trustees.
>> What is the average day for somebody at the jail?
In the prison obviously they are sentenced but jail is very transient.
It is either people waiting to be bonded out or extradited or people who are serving out sentences.
>> You kind of talk in these terms too.
If you look at the entire population of folks that go into jail, it is really very low.
What, a couple of weeks I believe?
If we're looking at people that stay beyond a 70 to hour.
It is close to 30 days I believe.
Of everybody, our sentence population is much longer than that and we tend to focus our programming on the sentence population and so, do you know off the top of your head?
The average length of a sentence?
We will be able to get that information for you.
>> He said it was tied to job skills or the lack thereof.
What programs do you have?
I appreciate this program and what you're doing for the inmates but what other training can these people get that would give them the job skills necessary so they don't go back to a life of crime?
>> I really appreciate that question because our reentry team has been doing a lot of work and has had a lot of support from councilmember Reinhardt and all of you really.
So we have just off the bat here. It has gotten a lot of attention just recently.
We got a barber program for males. We have a cosmetology program that will be starting for the females.
We have a virtual welding program.
We offer a number of – oh my goodness.
Forklift training.
We have construction training.
We have flagger training for small engine repair.
He's just kind of giving the extreme of them.
We've had all kinds of vocational programs right now.
And in addition to that, our reentry team is much larger than just job-training.
We do offer for people to be able to take may be a court ordered program so anger management or budget or financing and things like that.
So that is not an added burden on them when they are released and they are going through trying to fulfill the obligations of probation and things like that.
They've Artie got that one taken care of so when they go into the job market they don't have to continuously ask off for these types of programming.
So our reentry team actually focuses on that as well and of course we have the second chance initiative with Councilman Reinhardt and Chamber of Commerce that has brought employers into the jail to be able to do some interviews and provide some information for inmates that are going to be released soon after that and we are trying to make that.
That has become a quarterly initiative without one so there are employers that come to that in addition to Daytona state that comes to that to be able to offer information on classes and programming the recovery alliance comes to that.
For resources of folks other types of issues they might be facing and I also want to brag about, we've had two graduates in the entire GED program.
One got to celebrate in house and one was released before we had the chance to celebrate her but our reentry program has really grown by leaps and bounds the last couple of years.
This is great news to me.
>> So you have welding, forklift, carpentry, that is already in place now as we speak?
Are these people getting placed at the second chance initiative?
>> We have a harder time tracking folks once they've been released.
We do know anecdotally.
We have some folks that did take advantage and were placed in career sources that we know for sure.
We are working on collecting those numbers.
Anecdotally we have that information they are being successful.
For instance we had a dog training program at one point and that person went on retain employment relating to dogs so we do have some success coming out of that and as we came to get people kind of connected to services there's opportunities for them to network and find employment as well.
The Deputy County manager has been up.
I answered the question.
You also need to ask about the questions that were asked?
And before you start, do you have another question?
Are you ready for a comment?
>> Thank you Mr. Chair.
And to Mr. Kent's, earlier about the other crop alternatives that they don't currently use, those are crops that are used by our vendor at the ocean center.
The Oakview group who has expressed interest and potentially purchased this program so, that might actually help our ROI.
So we can incorporate that into our crops.
>> Thank you for that.
Yeah.
>> Okay.
We will start off our comments and debate with vice chair Reinhardt.
First of all, they give your comments and your ideas.
I didn't want that to – and thank you Suzanne for bringing that up.
I didn't even think about the fact that we had other assets and what the jail utilizes.
To give  you a little bit of historical value, my 30 years in corrections has been over a 30 year dream of mine.
One of the hardest things for me to see in my 30 year career was the right recidivism that we refer to.
And asking those individuals why you keep coming back in and the answer was always that they could not get a job.
So, during my tenure at counsel or corrections.
I was part of a jail inspection team for the state of Florida and we inspected other jails throughout the state.
Let's go back 30+ years when I went to Manatee County.
Their farm has been in existence a lot longer.
They started out with some hydroponics and an inground farm.
Back 30 years ago they were doing engine repair.
Painting County vehicles with a paint booth.
Embroidery, sewing.
The list goes on and on.
But they had to start somewhere.
They were asked the same questions that we are being asked today with respect to the finances.
I respect the fact that you ask this.
I get a little worried.
I don't want that to be something that scares people from this.
Any program we start whether it be for dogs, whether it be for motocross yeah employee one on you.
I really want to sell this.
It takes that.
And the idea of bringing up the hard sell about the fact of the startup cost, that is one time.
And George and I, we talked a little bit earlier about the possibility of the welfare fund.
That is something we will look into.
They make welfare funds come from inmates' fine commissary.
They are never going to stop buying commissary, trust me.
They're going to continue to.
So the profits would have to go into what you call the inmate welfare. It is designed to purchase things or do things for the betterment of the inmate population.
What suits the inmate population better than this idea?
So, that's why I brought that up.
So, we started this idea when I was a child so it was a  dream of mine.
Knowing that the farm was going to take a while.
We've been talking about it for two years.
Knowing the step, why aren't we selling at a farmers market type thing?
Just hear me out on this.
I think we should have 20 European beehives out there.
Honey selves between 12 and $14 per pound.
Each hive will produce a minimum of about 60 pounds a year.
Upwards of 100 pounds.
See have 20 hives producing 60 pounds a year.
At $16,800 a year coming in, selling that County hunting okay?
There is your name for it.
You are County hunting it would fly off the shelves.
Not only that, without honeybees, humans have seven years left to live on this planet.
They are excellent pollinators.
It will make the crops do so much better, the inmate program could actually build their own hives.
I would say severe on the same page here, 20 active hives.
I would have five hives extra available to catch forms that will happen so that once the swarm is caught, you can then introduce that swarm to the empty hive and then you reap all the more honey.
Excuse me, councilmember Robbins.
I hear you about the startup cost.
I'm just going to say this, I'm not trying to blood anybody's nose.
But we will spend $600,000 a year with the cultural counsel.
We will give taxpayer money away to programs that many of us have said we would like you to be on your own 2 feet.
Without government money being given to you.
We are going to kind of shy away from start-up costs for something that I think is extremely appropriate. When a motion is made, if it's not you I'm going to let you second it but if you make it I'm going to suck it.
I don't want to take the motion away from you.
The vice chair I think this is a more than worthwhile activity and I also want you to get something like this across the finish line.
So I'm supporting it for two reasons.
That I think is not only healthier but I think has the benefit over time to save money.
I think it will give the inmates something to look forward to participating in and do and behave so that they can participate in this.
I like Dom's question about does this help with their time?
I heard staff say that it does.
The second reason I'm going to support is I want to see them win.
Thank you chairman.
>> Councilman Johansson.
>> I would like to defer until public comment.
>> We have a couple so far.
Some questions come up during personal comments that deserve commenting on and the pros and cons I would like to hear.
>> Come back to you Councilman Robbins.
Pardon me?
You are not withdrawing are you?
Just a couple of comments, I can't tell you how pleased I am to hear you say.
I didn't even know your garden but you're actually right.
>> Yes square foot gardening we will knock it out of the park.
>> You're actually right.
Collard greens, the easiest you can grow.
Broccoli, eggplant, carrots, maybe not in the soil there.
But containers.
The very best time to grow is between September and June of next year.
The winner is our easiest because there are less bugs, less disease and it's a lot more pleasant to be outside.
I am wild about this.
I'm proud to have counsel talking about it.
But Danny is right.
The cost.
I do this.
When I look at the cost, I even discussed this with staff.
There are some things that are way out of line.
I spoke with my sons about chicken coops.
$48,000.
Could be $24,000.
All they want is for 5000 that withholds 100 birds and feeds them and waters them and has a collection system which is really important where they can pick the eggs that are not full of maneuver.
That doubles your labor cost.
You can fill the coop so the hens don't sleep where they are laying eggs. It cuts your labor down and also improves taste.
I just wanted to touch briefly, the average day is 45 days.
Which is good, I don't want people to stay in jail.
I don't know how much they're going to learn about this but I could tell you, the psychological benefit will still be there.
There is nothing like the self pride in growing something, living whether it be a chicken or a plant and I could tell you from raising kids who did this, they are very all tremendous workers now and one of the reasons for that is because of direct to consumer farms when they get to interact with the people who actually find superior products, given that desire to push harder and to work more.
I think you would find the same thing.
What I would say is this all has its own problems because of security.
But I don't think you want to be tied to sales just to the people that are buying vegetables wholesale.
There is a way to sell this directly to consumers.
You will have a much higher price and you will get the ultimate psychological benefit.
When they see the public come in and give them the wiles for what they are doing, it will give them a sense of pride and self accomplishment that is hard to reach.
There is a way to do that with security, with direct to public sales, they will support it.
And the inmates will grow and love it.
I know you have green houses now, I would add flour production to that, just potted flowers.
Faster than debts which are probably the most popular.
There are a lot of other things you could do integrating how you can grow micro greens, you can grow all kinds of things.
I know you're getting a lot of all of these costs and information from the UF.
I appreciate that, I'm glad you are.
But the University of Florida is not a leader for direct to consumer farming.
But we have some of the best farmers in central Florida in the country.
Everybody thinks Florida is easy.
It's not.
Because of our heat.
I do want to farm in Minneapolis but it's hard here in Florida.
There are people here who would help us give us direction.
Including me I would donate time to see this going at the give hit a homerun here.
I think we ought to do it.
When it comes back to us.
I want to see it go on.
I will give you names of some farms that are working around the world and doing stuff just like this for Third World countries to help them become self-sufficient. We should take advantage of that.
I will stop with that.
I'm going to support this to get to the next step but cost and set up, chickens don't die and vegetables don't die because that is going to have a negative effect on the inmates.
>> DON DEMPSEY: I just wanted to add this.
I've been going 35 years as an attorney and one thing that I maybe count on as a defense attorney is repeat business.
We get a lot of people who do some and they come right back.
So I may be talking myself out of some work here but the one thing that I've asked some of my repeat offender clients is not to get skill training while you're up there.
Don't they have some sort of – at the state level.
From what I'm hearing is that it is not that good.
And they don't do a very good job of reeducating these inmates so that when they get released with society they are not going to go back to a life of crime and will have some sort of skill set.
I would like to try the local level.
We all like things done more locally than from the state level in Tallahassee.
I was thrilled to hear that we have barber school, cosmetology school. I like to see more where pride was back in the day.
Refurbishment and other stuff.
And so, to do that, the transition is 45 days on average.
There is a mindset that in the county it wants inmates to go to DOC.
The tax rates are going for the inmates.
So there is this ideology that we are overcrowded to be sent out to the department of corrections and routinely asking judges for 8 to 70 or 64 jail sentences and I think when we can do this and get the message through staff and whoever the county does not want you sit stay here instead of a year day person status because now we got that person.
We got that person in a closed captive environment with the ability to maybe earn trustee time and the commissary he gets to stay local with his family's training . I would like to see them hit the farm.
It's great that they are supporting themselves and paying for their own food and making some money off of it. I don't know if there's as much of a demand in Volusia County for chicken help and farming as there is for welders, carpenters.
We need skilled trades from the developers I've spoken with, other small business owners, you can't find help.
And that is a big problem.
Skilled laborers are a huge deficit in this county.
These one-year county sentences, get them their training and attract the staff through the second chance initiative. I know colleges do it all the time.
They have these job fairs.
I would love to know how many of these go through one of these skilled training programs. They would actually get placement. It would be good to hear success stories and get out into the community using a trained skill in becoming successful.
With that I could actually go for this despite the costs Danny rightfully brought up.
I think it is more important to get our repeat offenders training whether they like it or not let them do a county jail sentence instead of a prison sentence.
Getting the training we can all watch and let's just try that.
>> Did you want to wait for public comment?
>> I will add more things if I can.
Thank you, chair.
Thank you Don for those sentiments.
The second chance initiative is continuing to grow.
We are taking ideas left and right.
These programs continue to stay very involved, very engaged.
I might as well get my badge back Joe.
But green houses back probably about a year ago we tried. They probably brought more mangroves for the Indian River Lagoon.
We are still going to try.
We talked a little bit and I have to put this out there.
I worded it down, I missed it.
But when you talked about the GED succession, I have to give kudos to the Council.
They came out and I went to that graduation to be that first individual.
We had not had an adult male together.
I care about how long.
But, that was big.
I didn't mean to take their thunder. The whole idea was to say they had completed certain things in addition to getting his GED.
And I guess the literacy Council is a little upset but I want to give them the kudos they deserve because without them they cannot be successful. I just want to be successful or not.
Tracking is hard because they are not going to know what all of them do.
Years ago we had right around 1700.
We are now about 13.
12, 1300 which is good.
The whole creation, the public safety coordinating Council, was to get those players to the table from the state, from the PD toward sentencing people for more than a year.
So anyways, just to give you a little bit of history on that.
I still want to explore the idea to appease what Mr. Robinson brought up.
So I mean, that's a possibility as well.
We did it with Noah.
We can still continue to try.
The inmates could build the chicken coops but they cost dramatically with that.
The coach and his crew could definitely do something like that.
And again, the programs are continuing to grow.
With that being said, I've never gone and taken this much time for Council comments for this.
Write this down in the history books I've taken almost 25 minute sessions.
With that being said I would like to make a motion to approve what staff has presented for both stages and to continue to explore the option of the second phase and see where it goes from there.
>> We have a motion on the floor.
>> Let me just restate the motion to come back with to go ahead and proceed with phase 1, at least phase 1. 
>> To follow the timeline that we proposed, we will start with phase 1 and then bring it back in 18 months and reassess and then at that point we can also dig a little bit deeper into getting our feet wet with knowing what it is.
And the cost and all that kind of stuff again with the chicken program but, yeah that timeline clicks motion to approve phase 1 and the possibility of phase II as we approach the timeline.
>> Chairman real quick and Mr. Reinhart, I note Jake and I staged up to talk to us.
Am I just holding off on that?
And I'm going to support you by the way.
But I want to give you just a couple more things.
>> I think everybody else was waiting until after public comment.
First is John Nicholson and the second will be Catherine.
>> Actually support this.
It used to be used all the time.
It's one of those kinds of things.
It really does help to keep them busy.
Secondly, you've already done some – about watching the cost of the jail.
One of the whole reasons why they pushed was to define an alternative to the minor offenders $100 a day.
That's $140,000 a year.
And some of these people are going constantly to jail.
So, we are saving, they are saving several means of dollars.
We are donating 400,000 and the jail is saving several million.
Is that a good deal?
Secondly, you got a farm which is going to cost a half $1 million eventually.
Hydroponics I think is $79,000 for a container.
They were doing tiny houses.
They were talking about containers converting them into housing.
And during the conversation they came up with a hydroponic container.
Cost $79,000.
Produces all of your vegetables and your lettuce and whatnot.
That's dirt cheap.
Actually $79,000.
When I was a kid, I saw a poor guy that came from Holland and couldn't make money.
So they specialized in asparagus.
Multimillionaire all right?
Why not specialize in the lettuces that the high end restaurants use and make money.
There's no reason why we can't make money off of this.
Enough money to support all the other ideas okay?
With regard to your welding.
This aluminum weld is big time.
Nobody teaches aluminum welding.
But they need aluminum welding.
He was getting 30,000 a year when the average was 15 and Daytona Beach.
Aluminum welders make a lot of money.
There are apartments going up on – a big sign.
There will be several more apartments going downtown.
So welders are really needed.
So this absolutely.
>> Catherine.
>> Good morning Council.
Wonderful presentation.
I fully support this.
This is good for the inmates mental and physical health.
In addition to providing them with workable skills upon release.
I would like to see this counsel fully supported.
My only question is, why is the barber and cosmetology program relative on the basis of sex?
I know female barbers and male cosmetologists as well as nail tax, all of these programs need to be open to both sexes.
Ruth Bader Ginsburg already clarified this.
No matter the cost this needs to be implemented.
And is to be 10 point to million on a motocross facility known on the dais has a legitimate reason to deny this.
Thank you.
>> Thank you.
That is the end of the public comment on this.
We'll go back to councilmember Johansson.
>> Am going to stay silent for about four minutes and 57 seconds and then say Matt, great job for supporting this.
And giving the rest of my time back.
>> Think of your chair.
I would just caution the first thing when I looked at this I said I can do this for cheaper.
We know I will take you back to a story of years ago if you go to a purchasing agent or somebody in a procurement process that the government buys that filing cabinet or $500 with some of this stuff, that is a fact.
With some of this stuff actually building some of the coolers, I would strongly recommend that we get somebody to look at all options there, someone willing to do the legwork to help out by obviously as cheap as possible because with anything there is no guarantee.
We get a hurricane I 100% and a reality is probably 60 to 70%.
Your brain, too much sun, hurricane not the right soil.
He needs fertilizer, needs this, that.
There are a lot of variables that we can make it work.
We just have to do it as cost efficiently as possible.
Before we jump headfirst into the pool.
I think you're on the right track.
Also let's look at other high-yield crops that you can turn into pumpkins, watermelons, things like that.
I would recommend, if we can make it work I'm all in.
I appreciate it, thanks man.
>> I just wanted to touch on a couple of things that Troy and Catherine just mentioned: if you're going to grow vegetables, you do need pollinators.
You need bees and butterflies preferably both and these are just things we can talk about as we go along but you talk about psychological benefits and somebody is going to laugh at this but plant a butterfly garden.
You get an anxious inmate to go out and watch.
And there is no maintenance.
It's like growing weeds.
And just a small area.
The bees are absolutely essential as pollinators, the problem is when you've taken the supers apart and pulled frames out, there is going to be – you probably won't even get stung if you do it correctly but now, there are actually beehives that you crank and the honey just runs out.
It actually slices the frames, slices the wax off. They are more expensive but there is no – you just fill jars full of honey and then Troy has his Volusia honey.
I'm excited, as you can tell there's a lot of things that would fit into this that would make it more economically beneficial but also the benefit that people there get some training.
>> Is putting her there.
I told you I was going to second that.
I'm assuming that is what you are going to do.
And I'm pleased to hear the way it was presented.
I'm all in for the vegetables, the price tag for the chickens.
I'm not there yet.
They are going back in 18 months and they will have the discussion of the time.
I'm 100% there with you to start the vegetables.
They are going to have a look at their pricing.
Especially the annual cost. I will have to assume a lot of that because they are by end chicks.
I wonder why we have so many chickens here.
We just all have our own.
Anyway, we will find out about that.
I'm ready for your motion.
>> Vice chair Reinhart?
>> Think of your chair.
What just happened here with all the ideas?
The idea.
All of this, this is how it started.
It started with a conversation about job fairs and it took the inmate welding to the barbering program, cosmetology, and yes.
We just started this.
So there is an idea we Artie talked about.
So, nonetheless therefore I will go back to my original, I would like to make a motion for approval phase 1 to get started as soon as possible.
Then bring back the information as we learned within the 18 months for phase two.
Look at other possibilities the way we can trend that cost.
>> We have a motion on the floor and a second by Councilman Kent.
I wish it was to move forward with phase 1 and stay in the 18 month period
For phase 2.
>> Very briefly I know this isn't part of this but what you heard from the chairman and myself about how important and what kind of money could be made from selling honey you get in staff here more and more and more about the possibility of that actually happening out there.
It is feasible.
It will work.
And there is a benefit to it.
Thanks.
>> You didn't mention it.
I thought you were going to but it is not that far down the road.
Exactly.
Yes.
>> Let's get this one done right.
So we've got a motion and a second on the floor.
No more debate.
ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. Any opposed?
Item 3 seven – zero.
Item number four is ordinance 25 16 small.
This has been pulled?
It's continued?
>> Or shall I continue?
>> Wendy needed to continue?
>> Right there.
It says October 21.
>> Jake Johansson, makes a motion to view this until October 21.
Seconded by Matt Reinhart.
ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. Any opposed?
It is moved to October 21.
Item 5, motion to continue to October 21.
>> ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. And that was a companion of item four.
They both moved to October 21 which takes us to item 6, ordinance 20, 25 – 20 chapter 70 of the code ordinances.
>> Development services director management director.
This is ordinance 2025 – 20.
We've worked at this several times now so we are going back for 1/3 reading with counsel.
There was a lot of discussion at the August 5 meeting.
Changes were made to the ordinance based on that.
Counsel did ask at the last meeting seven of us we moved to Bayreuth.
11 to conditional uses and 23 uses were put in the category from the County Counsel being the final authority.
>> I pushed the wrong button.
>> That's okay, just ask for a recommendation of approval.
One is that we had an aim of time going from second to third reading to continue with the quality control the agenda item was published and we do have some corrections that were made.
They should be in front of you.
The information spreadsheet.
There was one addition or one change to the offstreet parking which was erroneously shown as moving from PLRDC to stay at PL DRC.
The ordinance found a few places where uses were duplicated or were struck through that should not have been.
There is a safety list on your counter for that.
There were 10 of those but again, the spreadsheet definitely has the accuracy to it.
So I do want to also mention something that just happened a few minutes ago.
We received a letter from the farm Bureau asking that it be changed by special exception.
One of the reasons why it's a special exception to begin with is oftentimes in order to get to the pond there is use of excavation activities.
So there is usually some sort of selling the fill as the borough pet before the aquaculture can begin.
We do have a bit of a condition that stuff doesn't mind putting to a conditional use if we can get a certification from the Florida Department of agriculture and commerce that they are ready to begin the aquaculture operations.
Did you need anything else to do that?
>> Yes.
Talking with Scott Ashley is a very rare use proposed excavation then it transitioned into aquaculture.
I think we had maybe two requests this entire time.
The additional safeguard recommended by the farm viewer.
It is a long F tax division of aquaculture.
It should be Bayreuth or conditional use.
Copacetic with agricultural use.
>> You have a question about that?
>> I was going to put in motion to approve so it gets us towards discussion.
>> Is there a second?
>> Is that with staff changes?
>> Hold on one second.
I have a motion to approve as presented by councilmember Robbins seconded by Santiago Mr. McFarlane, if you can go through the changes that you did CNA update but when it comes to aquaculture and really the definition of excavation isn't that Phil required to stay on property?
>> Yes.
Typically excavation.
Nonexempt are when Phil was brought outside of the property.
They just contain it with the appropriate self.
It doesn't need a special exemption.
When mentioning something about borrow pits you know?
And whatnot.
So all the regulation for the borrow pits is in play right?
>> Basically if they have a certification of aquaculture then they can start digging.
Usually it is there aboveground aquaculture.
It is that easy transition.
>> The reason why I ask is that as we are getting tired of green lighting all of this so I just want to make sure we are not green lighting because we are going to get blamed for it.
Thank you.
>> I just want to make sure I understand your request to stick with aquaculture here.
Right now it is under PLDRC it sounds like it is a conditional use.
How do we know if that is certified or approved?
>> That is exactly the question by right.
There will be no staff receiving information from the applicant as conditional use.
You would have to make an application I think $170 application and we would basically be collecting that certification just kind of giving it okay.
>> Okay.
I would be fine from moving up to conditional use and you have the information that you need.
>> On the rest of the Council feels but I would be willing to approve that Councilman Robbins.
>> The chair is fine.
>> Are you amending your motion?
>> I'm kind of confused because we have the Farm Bureau saying we make it by right which hey, the less the better or duplicating laws so, that is where my concern is Jeff, do you have kind of like a follow-up or are we just going to we until – is it like FDAX?
>> No, it just came up. I didn't know what would be the proper way to do it but since the motion is to approve everything as presented, I am not proposing some changes.
If I'm going to propose changes I was hoping we could go through these but, I am a hard no.
The way that it is presented.
That is one change I could live with.
>> Have a problem with it if the Bureau is okay with going by right.
I will support them.
A lot of times they are experts.
That's what they do.
>> We will be asking for the certification.
You're asking for it by right so long as there isn't a certification with conditional use.
They are putting this self imposed condition then the condition is very adjacent to it.
They are proposing this condition.
>> So initially I don't want to change the motion then?
>> I don't believe you have to change the motion.
>> And just to finish up on my question.
What other items did you modify?
Or would you take it out?
>> Spreadsheet of course modified for the spreadsheet parking counts are the best for an August 5, the updates of errors in the ordinance itself is to, hunting camps back in the zoning that was inadvertently left out.
The second one with your item changed to add raising of crops 06 – 20 to take movable food from conditional use back to the special exception.
Written out as a special exception, is just going to stay out a special exception which was discussed at the August 5 meeting.
Removed bed and breakfast from the PL DRC reviewed from the A2 from the special exception conditional use.
They discuss keeping as a conditional use so that has been updated 06 – 23 added fixed wing aircraft fields and help pods as a special condition in the two zoning – 25.
Reflected that a three zoning does not allow for camps, fishing or nonprofit 06 – 50 to these docs contain more than 500 ft.² area it was inadvertently put on the special exception category it was moved to the conditional use category zero success, 70 removed tennis clubs to a conditional use was listed again and to places.
06 – 78.
Sales and service located within the principal building and that needs to be Bayreuth.
113 and 114.
We needed to move as a conditional use.
>> They wouldn't be for slaughterhouses.
Why wouldn't that fall under – because as a direct relationship or correlation why wouldn't that for instance be on any piece of property why is it isolated to industrial when it is contrary to that?
Does that make sense?
>> It does.
It's in the heavy industrial category based in large part by the movement.
Very heavy equipment usually has very high turnover and those sorts of uses wouldn't allow commercial agriculture to bring in 40 pound excavators, whatever I want, that is directly – Carol, what I'm trying to do is stay in line with our aggregate loss.
Strengthen them and promote agriculture.
Because really the agate laws would be an additional that would hurt we have like two or three packers.
Primarily the United States.
So if we can ease some of these in.
It is under direct conflict I think if we limit it to just I too.
We can challenge ourselves and then we will lose.
So, counsel, have no problem with the previous zoning classifications.
They want to make three, yeah.
What was the – do you remember what it was?
>> Just to help Carol in the questioning that's being asked off the dais, some of these industrial uses might be appropriate on large acreage agriculture mitigated by distance to adjacent property lines.
Zonings are five and 10 acres, a smaller lot one and not acres.
There are industrial uses and you will see them on the small lot.
Zoning districts are agriculture by name.
They really serve as a more world residential area.
>> We still have the statute, the rights to farm acts.
That says any direct or indirect for commercial agriculture production or sale or use is pretty wide open.
Counsel, how do you feel about this?
We also have a responsibility to not duplicate or overstep state statute and if anybody wants to bring up the statute for us and put it there, you will see the language.
We have to protect our agricultural community.
>> Are you saying that the way it is written conflicts.
>> If we limit it I believe it conflicts because it is an agricultural endeavor.
Greg so to enjoy the protection with the right to farm act and practices act you need to be classified as agriculture but under Chapter 196.
Where slaughterhouses in general, don't necessarily have that classification.
If they have that classification and they've been by the property appraiser then they fully enjoy protections with the right to farm act.
In the protection against duplication of regulation.
Of the slaughterhouse just by itself, I can't say that is definitely an agricultural use to enjoy and add classification.
>> What else would they be slaughtering?
Dinosaurs?
I'm not trying to be a wise guy but it's for accounts.
That's why the separate constitutional body is the one that designates agricultural property and classification.
The moment that they have that classification they enjoy exemptions from building permits protections from nuisances under the microphone okay?
Protections from duplicative local regulations.
But they have to get that classification first so they have this entity that a lot of people can identify what an ad classification is.
Once they get that classification we are hands-off to the extent we are operating in the best match for practices.
That is usually how it kicks in.
>> Understand how confusing it can be but I don't believe we should be eliminating counsel.
We can't anyway.
My opinion I don't know how we would go about it but how would we remove the letter I two?
How would we just limit this just to I2?
How would we remove it and open it up to other areas?
>> Well you wouldn't.
>> The issue is that slaughterhouses are historically in the county.
If a property owner has cattle operations and they want them to operate a slaughterhouse on the same property they have that classification then they just have to point out which best match for practices or the slaughterhouse operation.
And that overrides the county code.
This is for a standalone slaughterhouse operation.
There is an associated farm that is classified. We are hyper focused on this slaughterhouse industrial use.
Combining it with an agricultural operation.
We got the best management practices.
Okay, Suzanne, did you have something now?
We have a lot of public comments.
We have questions first.
Concern about the ability for public comment on a lot of things from counsel to conditional use.
For those I was able to email back at the beginning of the end to come and discuss something with us as they have the option of communicating if they have concerns but some people based on some of the emails I got are under the assumption that nothing is coming to us anymore.
So can you kind of run me through a few scenarios on what will definitely be coming back to us if the public has input during the Council meeting and zoning change.
Whatever the case may be.
Like so to the County Counsel and peel DRC.
They have one public hearing instead of two public hearings.
Any in this party can take action of appeal DRC the owner can appeal their denial that would go to County Counsel.
The next step below that is the additional use.
There is no public hearing for this not to be noticed.
Any appeals of a conditional use application would also go to County Counsel.
As they do now.
Correct.
There are no public meetings so it is not in the appeal of the decision of the official or the land development manager.
>> And for those things I've asked that process because of lack of knowledge of what's happening next door another reasonable suspicion that we have laws and code of ordinances and we have code enforcement officers if something is too loud plus public pressure coming up to us I think it was a pool manufacturer and he was doing things in accordance with everything other than so I think there is still room from public input.
Nuisances.
I want to make sure everybody is aware of that.
>> Our existing regulations still apply for everything.
So you can have a business but if that business is doing something that is against regulations then.
>> Absolutely.
I will call it a subject of interest.
If, we haven't seen it yet.
Our unprofessionally.
When that goes through the pipeline, it will most likely in imminent circumstances.
>> That is correct, right so, rezoning is not the source.
>> At all.
>> Any future land use or rezoning continues to go through the public hearing processes of large-scale conference of plan amendments and two Council meetings whereas rezoning's and small scale future land use amendments and County Counsel.
So the specific project crossing so, if that continues down the pipeline it's been in the incomplete status for a long time.
It's never been scheduled for a public hearing.
Just not that point yet.
So the public hearing if they continue the path they've already applied for.
They have told us that they were thinking about going to the conservation subdivision.
Of course that would require some changes to the plan.
That has not gone through any kind of technical review.
So if that were to happen, conservation subdivisions do not go to a public hearing, they were not written previously as having gone through public hearing and that specific use is not mentioned in this ordinance.
>> Right, so this ordinance doesn't change that outcome?
>> Thank you very much.
That's all I have.
>> Councilman Dempsey for questions?
>> This is a follow-up to what Mr. Johansen was asking.
>> Nothing will be proposed by counsel in the DLC.
The opportunity to go through the public hearing and voice their concerns.
>> That is correct, yes.
You can still come in with a public comment and then if the applicant is denied and then the adjoining neighbors or other people who spoke so, we are not denying people's rights here to go to a public forum and be heard.
>> Mr. Dempsey if I could just complement the answer on the first several pages of your spreadsheet or use the current public hearing that would go by right.
>> I was referring to the things that went from counsel to – but now, Paula, are we reinventing the wheel here.
By what's being proposed?
There are other councils in the state that already follow the same map.
It is very common for jurisdictions.
They have their planning agency.
You've issued the final order subject to an appeal.
>> Other others that you can currently do like this?
>> A lot of them.
I used to work in St. John's.
That's how it was.
>> And I think Volusia County prior to too thousand five ended all special exceptions to thousand to.
PLRDC was the final exception.
>> If this is not some big experiment you come up with?
>> Councilman Santiago.
>> KENT: So, 23 years ago that change happened.
Why?
Why did that change happen?
Why did it go from peel DRC with the final say so and to County Counsel was in the say-so.
>> Probably because the people that put them in the seats requested that change.
I'm just guessing here.
>> I appreciate all the questions.
Mr. Dempsey brings up a point about there can still be public participation but did not hear you say that was the one reading before it was County Counsel it was two readings?
>> Special exceptions as they are right now go to public hearings.
I think what you heard was future land use amendments go to one peel DRC or two County Counsel's.
Two public hearings.
>> Are presented with the opportunity to come and speak as potentially taken away.
>> We will have two chances at the bite.
>> I don't have any other questions, I just have comments.
>> I just have one question.
We talked about this yesterday.
Can you explain to the Council the effect this would have on any of the overly areas hosting.
>> Each overlay is different.
The zoning difference operates independently from your local plans.
Policies that guide your future land use which is the maximum density or intensity that anyone could possibly build and they basically limit utility.
Don't change the land used to be more dense or increase density.
It is discouraged to run to expand utilities in those areas.
The underlying zoning districts are consistent with the land use designations and we already have those instances available.
The intersection, save a used one from special exception to buy right, really the discussion is, the current conference of plan, that is either yes, sir no.
So even if he uses a lot by right if they require the expansion of utilities, that is not something that would be allowed because there comes a plant policy which increases in actual development in those homes.
It is both an overlay and a zoning.
It has its own zoning categories.
>> Okay.
All right, thank you.
>> There is some interplay.
Don't change the land used to be more intense.
Or dense.
Then definitely discouraged.
>> I think all I hear you saying is there's potentially some conflicts but there is not a wide open door.
>> If the change would be, you're not changing the list of uses, you remain the same.
It's just like what level of approval is required to okay the use?
Once you get to the UCR at the land development phase.
That is primarily where the local plans kick in.
So, I'm sorry you can't have these intentions.
>> Thank you very much.
Any other questions for staff before Councilman Santiago?
>> With the changes that are being proposed here today, if anyone wants to rezone their property, nothing is changing with this proposal.
They would still have to go to public hearings. Is that correct?
Nothing different.
For a reason.
Anybody and legal can answer this.
I know we said, I think Don asked a question about, are recovering new ground here?
Is it very common?
I think you said it is a widely used practice in the state of Florida.
Is that basically what you said?
>> Most counties and cities have special exceptions and what they are planning.
Is anything we are proposing here today that we are going to vote on illegally?
>> I don't believe so.
The County Counsel has the legislative authority to create zoning districts and to provide and define the zoning districts in the uses and those zoning districts.
>> I get it.
I also left.
But I had to ask the question, the follow-up question to our legal team, if we vote for this today are we committing malfeasance?
>> Malfeasance is using your public position to violate the law.
>> Is this against the law what we're proposing?
>> Is just just rational decision-making.
I do know why that's funny.
>> I get it.
Members of counsel, I'm getting down this path there is a lot of deception and I hope the open mind of individuals that are hearing this can understand you may not agree with it but people make accusations like modifications, that is strong.
I would never accuse anybody of that without specific knowledge that you did something wrong.
And we will cover that later.
I wanted to make sure our legal team is giving us good guidance.
Thank you.
>> Danny or Jake, do stuff questions?
>> Quickly and I will try to wrap it up as best we can.
This, just to clarify for us in the public, this is not changing any land use.
With special exceptions, are they or are they not already identified except uses under the zoning classification?
>> The purpose of the special exception.
You have a list of uses which require an extra step.
And one of the things as a special exception is the way we word it . If you meet all of the criteria in the special exception, it should be great.
That is why you have the special exceptions.
It's just, what steps are you making the applicant go through to reach that special assumption?
>> In your professional opinion it is more procedural than anything.
Efficiency.
>> Fundamentally the list of uses remains the same.
What level of authority.
Bureaucratic authority are you going to apply?
By right you can just go straight to the side plan.
Peel DRC you have to have a public hearing.
>> This is more procedural than anything.
>> One of the things is that some of the uses are identified, you can't see anything.
You know, we use our kind of site sensitivity.
That's why I put public input into that process.
For decision-maker and weigh all that public input and the special exception order with appropriate conditions subject to appeal to the County Counsel.
>> I will ask more questions unless somebody else does.
>> Jake didn't have a question, John you have any more questions?
Then Troy, do you have a question or comment?
>> Covered about the slaughterhouse.
>> Is in the DOC category.
For resource corridor to the potential zonings.
Since you are still going to get a public hearing.
You have the right to appeal to the Council.
>> Our recommendation is, that should be a separate ordinance.
To discuss if you are shifting uses from one category to another.
Because the expectations change, the area right now is not something that a person when they look at the list of uses they don't see.
But if you are adjacent and if you are in what item to you see the slaughterhouse list, we can have that discussion but we are focused on shifting the authority in a zoning category rather than spreading or shifting uses to other zoning categories.
We can do that but I would recommend we do it by second ordinance.
>> What Danny is saying makes sense.
There are two types of cattle.
Dairy and beef.
Beef cattle and up in a slaughterhouse.
Why not have a slaughterhouse on the same property?
>> So long as it is together with an already existing farm that has an add classification and they attach the slaughterhouse to it.
Right now our code is hyper focused on just the slaughterhouse itself.
Just having an industrial slaughterhouse and there is no farm aspect to it.
If you have a foreman you're raising cattle and you build a slaughterhouse on your farm, the county is out.
>> I just want to add the agricultural uses you will see listed as all agricultural pursuits.
So, those include accessory and agricultural uses.
Again when there is another agricultural use on the property.
>> They are regulated both federally and by the state okay.
>> Councilmember Santiago for questions.
>> Some people are out there in my opinion deceiving the public and saying this is basically a developer's gift.
Question for you, if a developer wants to come in and create a housing subdivision, will that still come to us as it normally does prior to this?
>> Assuming you are talking about planning development zoning, this order does not affect thought.
>> Nothing today would change that process.
Is that correct?
And, just to make it more specific, an environmental subdivision that some have – conservation subdivision, as many discussed here today. It looks like there is a lot of opposition to it, which I'm not very familiar with the project I've said about a few months ago.
But when that time comes and it starts to process, those that object to it can appeal to the County Counsel to have a public hearing to debate the issue.
Is that correct?
>> And nothing that we are doing here today affects us anyway.
>> That's correct.
You could deny this ordinance and it does affect.
>> Nothing that we are doing today would stop individuals that object to conservation of division to the Council and agreements.
>> Okay, any more questions?
Let's hear from the public.
We've got a lot of people that have been sitting here a long time.
You will have three minutes please keep to the three minutes, there are a lot of people.
First up you have Maureen and then Connie Colby and then David Jewell.
Will keep moving.
>> Hi.
It's Maureen again.
I am urging you, even though I know what you said.
To chapter 70 there is no reason for this and I would like to get an explanation in layman's terms which I think you kind of asked but I printed out the two hundred and 28 page ordinance with deletions and additions and only an appeal one time you get to come before you.
You are our elected people.
We elected you for a reason.
We elected you all for a reason.
We did not elect the staff for the PLDRC or whatever that group is to their meeting.
That's ridiculous!
People on County Road on 415 have to wait until February, February?
To talk about a – when your lawyers and developers can get all that money, we don't have the money.
That is what they did.
They are waiting until nine variances.
Mr. Storage got up there and told everybody that the meeting was disgusting.
I'm just angry.
And you can hear it in my voice.
You are our representatives and I believe that I would like to hear from you in layman's terms, on Facebook, I want to hear from you.
I respect everybody.
We elected you.
But I have to know this.
If I don't know.
>> I've been a real estate appraiser for 53 years.
I've been before many city bodies.
Governing bodies across the United States I hear what you're saying.
It is not changing anything with respect to the 70 to put it in the sense that you are only going to get the one chance.
And I know none of you need to be reminded that you were elected and all that stuff.
Everyone has Artie settled on that.
I do appreciate that Mr. Brower and Reinhardt sent the response to my letter yesterday but they understand the nature of the three way system.
I also appreciate that Mr. Robbins answered me in great detail about his theory on trying to streamline, I do understand the need for streamlining and also there are times for special exceptions but, I'm afraid that this is a dangerous slippage and that's going to end up it was put forth to help homeowners regain their properties faster, built faster and what's happened with it is a massive amount of unintended consequences.
And I think that this ordinance 70 to will also create a huge host of unintended consequences.
Because of other people as mentioned you are moving from the governing body on elected officials for some of these decisions and I think in spite of needing to streamline, we can't afford to streamline with respect to these very critical land-use decisions in the public needs more than one opportunity to come before the council so, I don't think you should pass this ordinance the weights proposed now.
Thank you.
>> A point of personal privilege, maybe you could help me with the audience and you could stop me from – but if members of the public can give the Council specific ones.
There is only a handful that are changing.
If you could give specific ones that you think should be changed if you heard some of the commentary were talking about slaughterhouses.
We're talking about kids day cares.
I think it is one of them from the last meeting.
There were a limited number of changes saying this one is bad.
None of them are subdivisions.
I want to make sure we are still not confused about that.
Give me a specific one if you could.
>> Is actually 25 items that came before Council.
>> That's why I'm asking if they can tell us which ones that may be concerned.
>> Mike followed by Victor Lopez.
>> Good afternoon.
Let me clarify what I believe by conservation subdivisions.
Conservation subdivisions like a PUD don't come before the Council.
Conservation subdivisions are approved by staff.
That is my understanding.
That's one thing.
To change chapter 70 to is a travesty.
There are 51 items, 25 that no longer come before the Council.
And a number of others that no longer come before the DRC.
That means the owner can say I want to put in a rock plant.
I want to put in a concrete plant or something else and by right I'm allowed to do that.
It's now by right.
And the longer it comes before the County Counsel or the DRC.
We as citizens no longer have the right to ask questions or challenge ourselves or even be noticed.
For those 51 items.
There is a 128 page list if there ever was.
One councilmember went so far as to say we can file attorneys to file injunctions.
I can't afford to do that.
That's why we have you.
That's why we have the checks and balances of the County Counsel and appeal to the DRC to do that for us.
We can challenge them upfront before the dirt is being turned.
We've got to really think about, what is ahead of us here?
The public relies on you to make those decisions because we were elected.
Public hearings are very important.
We can challenge decisions and premises before they occur.
If our elected officials go to eliminate these processes they advocate some of the very important duties that we elected them to oversee.
We Artie lost ground and we are going to lose anymore ground with you amending this ordinance.
We can do it.
We have to stop.
A majority of the city Council, County Counsel needs to understand that we elected you to do our bidding.
In our zones out at large and overall.
That is why we are here today to make sure that you understand what our wants and needs are.
We love checks and balances.
We love to be involved in the process.
And if I have a neighbor who wants to put in a concrete plant, I want to be able to come before a body before it's done, before the dirt is being turned to say, stop, why here?
Let's look at something else.
We can change it more efficiently but this is not the way to do it.
Thanks for listening, have a great day.
[APPLAUSE] 
>> Thank you, Victor Lopez.
Followed by Donna Craig.
>> Victor Lopez and I live in Spruce Creek.
Proving developments from this commission to your staff.
Some of the people want it.
Special interests and developers not by the residences.
One interest only to make money.
They don't care about the repercussions of what they do.
They come in, build their homes, get the money and they leave.
Specifically we believe this provision by the people from Creek Crossing development.
Continuous properties and proposed development currently act as a part of the storage area for the overflow of Spruce Creek.
When we have storms and rain this property – as Paul Holmes had said it goes 1000 feet wide and 16 feet deep.
Water from this will still be there.
They develop it, it's got to go someplace.
You narrow it down, it's going to increase in volume, size and depth.
The bridge is already underwater when we have storms, so is the South bridge on Williams Boulevard.
We basically have damage.
It has already been prepared.
This will only exacerbate that damage and that flooding.
Now, specifically they're going to build a couple of these homes right on an active runway.
Runway six.
We have single engines, twins, turboprops and jets.
They will all go over these homes at hundred feet or less.
It's totally legal under the FAA.
But people by those homes are not going to be happy.
And like I said, the development mentors don't care.
They get the money and they move on.
You have to do with the complaints and noise later on.
Now, we allow the developer to fast-track the plans and bypass the public process.
The ordinance takes out of the public eye and shifts to the staff in the dust. Residents will not have the total forum only you are.
Understand that one of the commissions says we should hire an attorney and fight this in court.
That's great.
I have practiced tax law for 30 years.
Probably the last resort you want to go down.
Yes, we will hire attorneys and go to a law firm.
We will fight if we have to but it is not – it profits only the attorneys.
I know I made mine living that way.
>> Three minutes Donna Craig, Catherine and then Gary Singleton.
>> Good afternoon, Donna Craig, I am warming by the sea.
Full disclosure I am an appointed member of the appeal DRC as well as a normal citizen, I hope normal citizen.
[LAUGHTER] Of the County of Volusia.
I've a few things I want to bring up.
One is as far as the misrepresentation floating around those are largely based I think on well-founded fears that the public has about the process that we have going here.
I know from my own personal experience I've been elected by elected bodies before as well as the County Counsel.
That one meeting, the group I was with, there was someone on the dais as those people.
In another instance, a few of us were meeting outside of the city hall before a city Council meeting and one of the members of the Council came up, chatted and said what are you here for?
We said what it was.
And we were told don't even bother speaking because we don't listen to you anyway.
Those are the kinds of fears that people have and when you start talking about changing the restrictions we have in place, people get concerned about what that means for them, and they have less of a voice as stated here, you people are here to represent us.
We look to you to do the right thing.
For the majority of the people.
We live here because we love to hear the natural resources are plentiful.
We would like to leave it that way.
We want this to continue to be a beautiful place.
A place where we want to be and not have it paved over.
So, please be wise in the way that you approach this issue.
Thank you.
>> Catherine and then Gary Singleton if you want to move down, there are no seats on the front row.
>> Good morning Council I stand in strong opposition to chapter 70 to the County ordinances.
Public hearings are essential.
They provide notice to residents and give the application a chance to be heard.
Land use removal is weakening a fundamental safeguard of the process.
Special exceptions exist for a reason.
These issues are not permitted by right; they require additional oversight to ensure they are compatible in the surrounding neighborhoods and public health, safety and welfare.
At the August 19 meeting Volusia County and Carol McFarlane cautioned against moving staff level conditional use approval.
Knowing prior cases have been very controversial.
This was not idle commentary.
It was a clear warning that instead of acknowledging his concern, he publicly mischaracterized the issue on the news suggesting that the McLean section's special exception puts the red tape for residents.
Respect is not the truth.
It is gas lighting.
Residents are not building carwashes; this change serves developers, not the public.
Furthermore councilmember Robbins and Dempsey claim they require a person to hire their own attorney after it has Artie been built.
This is unfair to the affected residents.
I'm not aware of the city work County nor regulated them solely to an unelected advisory board.
The standard is some applications and then go before the elected Council.
This proposal undermines due process and public trust in the even cross into legal or ethical violations.
I consider a few of you on the Council to be reasonable and appealing to those few to abandon this ludicrous idea of any special exceptions in chapter 20 to ordinances.
We had these procedures for a reason.
To protect communities and give residents a voice.
At a time when many municipalities would like to strengthen the flood use growth but can't because it has to be 180.
Lucia County should not be rolling in the back.
Chapter 70 is not cutting red tape.
It is a gift to developers by the County in the same fashion it is a gift to development in the state of Florida.
Click certain council members are asking leading questions they want to record.
This is not accurate information to the public and we only get three minutes to refute their questions.
Thank you.
>> Singleton followed by Ann Gunter followed by Steve Gunter.
>> My name is Gary Singleton.
I live in 1998 booster Creek Circle.
>> We can't hear you.
>> Gary Singleton 1998 Spruce Creek circle.
What you're about to do today is the single most egregious assault to date on the public's right to participate in their government.
Every single use listed as a special exception was excluded from original zoning because of their impact on safety, health, traffic and flooding an environment of production.
That right was deemed necessary to bring these applications for special exceptions before the County Counsel for adjudication Ray was the responsibility of this council to review the application.
Here is the applicant and the concern of the neighbors and then judge the impact of the use before granting a special exception.
It is our basic right to address our concerns before elected as representatives.
It is the duty of this council to hear our objections to uses that are likely to cause harm to others.
The government is not in the way when it is protecting citizens from harm.
Your application of these most vital responsibilities constitutes nothing less than the election of duty.
When you knowingly enable one individual to harm another you have willfully committed an act of my patients.
At this point, I will accept a different term for an elective representative that enables an individual to harm another.
We know what you are doing and we know why you are doing it.
Mine does not give notice to the public or allow public participation by the public.
To the County Counsel.
Only this council is directly accountable to the amount of people.
No amount of gas likening the matter how well orchestrated will change what we are witnessing today with our own eyes.
We will not forget and we will not forgive.
>> And Gunter followed by Steve Gunter followed by Cindy Harris.
>> Thank you for the opportunity.
I have attended many Volusia County Council meetings but this is the first time I decided to voice my opinion because I'm so alarmed by the amendment to chapter 70 to.
The Volusia Mitnick mission statement is to provide responsive and fiscally responsible services for the health, safety and quality of life from our citizens.
Cutting Volusia County citizens out of the decision-making process on development projects is a blatant disrespect for your mission statement.
We must keep County Counsel oversight so the citizens keep the right to keep every opportunity to provide input especially on projects.
Volusia County citizens must not accept that we have no say in how development is loud in our own community.
Volusia County citizens must not accept the elimination of public hearings on development.
Solution County citizens must not accept the removal of accountability from our elected representative. Please vote no for the chapter 70 to amend and lastly to the members of his counsel who are pushing for the amendment of chapter 70 to, shame on you.
>> Steve Gunter, Cindy Harris and Nancy McDonald.
>> I don't know if it is morning or afternoon by now but, thank you commission for allowing us to speak.
Steve Gunter in new Smyrna Beach.
It's troubling to see citizens being cut out of this decision-making process.
I note Kent and maybe it was Dempsey saying we are not being shut down on anything, but basically, I think the Commissioner is saying that chapter 70 too is eliminating the red tape and we citizens see that as a code for silencing the citizens.
We've seen how authoritarian governments silence their people piece by piece trying to chip away at their voices.
Yet, there we are.
The same mindset is creeping and taking away the public's ability to weigh in on projects that reshape our neighborhood.
This three-minute participation, this is not a courtesy.
It's democracy in action.
These citizens must have a chance to shine a light on the development projects, raise concerns and hold leaders accountable.
The idea that some unelected staff members will depend on power behind closed doors is very dangerous.
Who are these people?
Where are they connected to?
Developers, lobbyists?
Many have a process, the planning and development, they review projects, they weigh the pros and cons of the projects but the most important step in this is the input of the citizens.
Out in the sunshine where it belongs.
This government belongs to the people.
Silencing the public in favor of developer interest is unacceptable.
Volusia County must keep decisions in the open where the elected officials and citizens both have a voice.
I say no to rewriting the chapter for the special exceptions, thank you.
>> Cindy Harris.
>> Followed by Nancy McDonald followed by Charles McDonald.
>> Cindy Harris, District 3. Good afternoon gentlemen.
It is not okay for a neighbor to damage a neighbor's property because of original zoning.
Not even under the guise of SB 180 as suggested on the August 19 meeting.
To amend chapter 70 to code of ordinances, to be in line with SB 180 is a ruse.
Section 16 to letter an applied expedition of permitting or recovery and rebuilding after a storm.
In a declared state of emergency.
This is to make it less burdensome on a homeowner.
To make the necessary repairs to their home.
Not for builders to build new subdivisions or anything like that.
The only area of SB 180 specifically pertaining to modifications to plans and regulations.
It is section 21 and 22.
This is regarding only the Florida Keys.
Where it is specifically addressing permitting, buildable lots, types of housing and time limits for allocations to permits.
All of this is relative to the Florida Keys only.
Spent in no other specified counties.
Section 27 of SB 180 recommends streamlining permitting processing for existing structures during a declared state of emergency.
And would not necessitate amendments to chapter 70 to zoning codes.
Section 28 of SB 180 since you may not impose a more burdensome change.
However that is exactly what amending chapter 70 will do with property owners.
Councilmembers, you have a duty for your constituents.
To protect the properties.
Making changes to chapter 70 to take our voices away.
By taking out the oversight and not allowing us a chance to have this oversight and you actually looking at any special exceptions.
It is taking our voice away.
So it is not okay to damage another neighbor's property by right without that oversight.
And to just let them go by right with the original zoning.
Please, do your job, don't take our voices away.
Amending chapter 70 to is doing the exact opposite of what SB 180 was intended to do.
So do not take our voices away.
Thank you.
>> Nancy McDonald followed by Charles McDonald followed by Jessica.
>> Good afternoon ultimo Bruce.
A native here in Volusia County after 65 years.
Raised on a working cattle ranch and still operates a small cattle ranch.
But I'm also a businessman.
Running demolition and waste company here in Volusia County.
And this section, speaking of I am definitely for it.
I want to thank the individuals responsible for trying to save all of the money and valuable time streamlining while exercising our rights. You are trying to do something on your own property when you own and work hard for it which it is zoned for.
Making the due process right is brilliant.
Our savings.
Saving our council members time, work.
And sometimes, something which is important, it is crazy enough trying to get approval to do something on your property as it is.
Our chair is wide open seeking more complication to the process costing more complication to process and costing us more money and time trying to stop development.
None of us like development.
I don't like it myself.
But this is by far the wrong Avenue to stop development.
It needs to be focused on trying to find ways to compete with the developers on purchasing development rights.
That would be a win-win for us all.
So I guess by rights, smart business and all of us need more family time and less confusion in their lives.
I know we see this.
Most of these people here are all against us.
But I think it is a great thing.
You know, you already have the zoning in place and it just makes sense to not to come before and you still have the PO DRC.
It makes sense to me.
It seems like a lot of wasted time and I would encourage you guys to try to, let's try to find ways to buy the development rights.
Come up with more money to buy the development rights.
Thank you very much.
>> Charles McDonald.
>> Okay.
Jessica.
It's all right.
You will be followed by Steve and Steve, you will be followed by Palmer.
>> Okay.
I'm sorry.
Okay.
I would say that regarding some more minor things that would be fine but, when it comes to chapter 70 to code ordinance I still feel like when it comes to more major developments they should still have two hearings so someone was unaware with the development of the first hearing can have a chance to get there to sense on the second hearing.
I feel you should inform everyone who will be affected by said development so they have the opportunity to go in and give their sense because it's not nice to do things and not tell anyone and then they have to deal with the consequences and the fallout afterwards.
While the developers just walk away.
With their money, they are happy.
So, long story short, if it is a more minor thing then, fine.
But if it is a major development, that is thousands and thousands of people.
I would suggest taking into consideration a multifamily unit dwelling and apartments that you should probably have two hearings.
And give people as many chances to talk as possible.
There might be something that might not have been thought of during the first hearing that comes up in the second hearing.
Anyways, that's all I have to say.
[APPLAUSE] 
>> Thank you Steve, Palmer and David gall.
>> Good afternoon, Steve Wunder Lee, Daytona Beach.
This ordinance has moved at a fast pace.
Three readings in just under a month.
It has a lot of moving pieces and there were quick revisions after the first two meetings.
We ended up with a document that had errors.
It didn't match the summary table so it wasn't clear what the requirements were.
I dug into the document and I saw several of those.
Staff just now made changes despite their best efforts.
We have to ask, is the ordinance now fixed.
Is it 100% now?
We don't know at this point.
Counsel has just been made up aware of the changes.
But the public has never seen the current version.
The public has never seen this current version and we deserve a chance to look at a new version.
To study a new version.
Before the council votes on it.
The value of the public comment.
Is limited if it doesn't have the current document to look at.
If there are still errors, what might happen down the road?
When someone wants to do something that was supposed to have been changed by right but wasn't.
Or if something was changed by right that should not have been.
This ordinance will impact activities involving millions of dollars.
It's worth getting that right initially.
We need to pause and make sure the document is not right for the Council to vote on it.
>> Thank you.
[APPLAUSE] Palmer followed by David followed by Kimberly Mitchell.
>> Hello consul I propose any changes that would shift approval of special exceptions to the PO DRC. These changes remove public hearings and eliminate community input, strip accountability of our elected representatives and ask for developments including airports and racetracks to bypass Council approval.
Volusia County residents deserve a voice in shaping the future of our county.
Our councilmembers must remain directly responsible for the decisions that impact quality of life, growth and safety in our communities.
You need to vote no at the September 4 meeting and keep special exceptions under approval and protect the public's right to be heard.
Don't violate your conscience in this.
Do the right thing.
And by the way I heard the west planning manager for clarifications on the proposed changes she did confirm overrides all overlays and local plans.
Anything in the conference or plan that provides additional protection to Volusia County citizens.
[APPLAUSE] 
>> David, Kimberly and Suzanne.
>> I'm David from the Spruce Creek line.
Regarding chapter 70 to amendment ordinance 2025 – 20.
So far I've heard in this hour six or 25 or 51 different land-use classifications.
We can't even seem to come to consensus on exactly what the scope of this proposal is.
And it's hard for the public to keep up with this proposal when it is a moving target.
I suggest it is already for prime time and consideration.
I would ask that you propose it just on those grounds alone.
If anything you should be considering holding things such as conservation and subdivision into the purview of this counsel.
Instead of trying to extricate yourselves from having to consider special exemptions.
Certain land-use activities would be automatically approved right under this proposal.
It seems to me that the navigation of the elected duty to deliberate those things are called special exceptions. I have been a staff specialist in a previous career and a staff specialist has their hands tied.
They cannot disapprove something that meets the requirements even if they have strong arguments against it, they cannot.
Without going through a lengthy process of writing a report for why they can't do it.
And then going to their superiors and presenting it and making it an argument.
It's a lot easier just to say approved.
So if there's anything controversial at all is going to get approved or else it is going to get bound down into the staff process and somebody's boss somewhere will say you can't say you can't do that.
You have to go ahead and approve it.
Then you will suffer the consequences after the bulldozers are already moving the trees.
Let's consider a court of ordinances.
What is an ordinance?
It is an authoritative order or a decree to put things in order.
This is an efficient government.
Staff says the strategic goal of this amendment is a regulatory framework we arty have an efficient regulatory framework and back into thousand five this was put back into your purview because it wasn't working as it is currently proposed to be changed to.
It was broken into a thousand five, so we fixed it.
Now it's 2025 and you want to break it again.
If you routinely grant an exception by being a codified stop function it's no longer an exception but it becomes regular.
It becomes regulation.
This is what is known as underground regulation.
Administrative procedures that enforce or put in place regulations are no longer part of the deliberative process that these bodies convene for.
I'm out of time, sorry I can't speak more.
[APPLAUSE] Kimberly Mitchell, Suzanne Scheiber and Brian White.
>> Hi, good afternoon, Kimberly Mitchell again.
Thank you for letting me speak.
I just became aware of the proposed amendment to chapter 70 regarding special exceptions.
Only during the creek crossing meeting and by then it was already the third meeting.
It made me realize how easily residents can be left out of important discussions especially with issues like the conservation development that directly affects our development.
My concern is removing these matters from counsel review and limiting their appeals process will reduce transparency, silence deep voices with only one opportunity.
I won't have a real chance to be heard.
I understand this is being presented as a shifted review from counsel to staff and while I respect what it does, decisions with lasting impact particularly those involving conservation development, whatever is being slipped in there should remain under the review of our elected officials.
You, the Council, are the ones chosen by the people.
That's to speak for us.
The participation and decisions that shape our community and quality of life.
I hope the Council will protect the right for us to be heard.
Thank you.
>> Thank you.
Suzanne Scheiber and if the next you want to get ready.
>> Over the years our landscape and Volusia County has changed significantly.
Mr. Dempsey, an esteemed Council member, devastating for our county.
11 public input on agenda items that affect flooding and zoning changes if anything enhances them.
If the goal is to reduce red tape and bureaucracy while strengthening public rights we must acknowledge the issues related to flooding and historical context seem to be overlooked here.
We do not need a hurricane to experience flooding and parts of our county.
They consulted the PR DRC without taking on the responsibility for these matters.
While they put it on agenda items as a point of committee members, has anyone asked them whether they believe it is appropriate to eliminate certain industrial and other permits from coming before the Council.
Is it assumed that an appointed advisory committee wants to make final decisions they were not elected to make?
This counsel was chosen by the election process to represent the people.
Did anyone consider their property owners to address the Council, they are elected representatives rather than viewing it as a loss of sleight-of-hand.
And Mr. Johansen, as chair of the flood committee impacting residents the request being made today history is a valuable tool for learning.
I ask all of you to recognize this and ensure good governance.
Especially concerning the uncertainties that many and Volusia County have faced uncertainties this counsel has faced.
These unknowns regarding flooding are realities that new property owners do not want to experience anymore than existing property owners do.
The process coming before the Council benefits property owners as well as their neighbors.
Public concerns have already highlighted these uncertainties as well.
They applied your circumstances and this includes flooding and hydrological changes.
The Council is the elected body that is here to make the final decisions regarding concerns about flooding and public safety for all.
Now, Mr. Santiago you asked about specifics, I would like to see the overlays and any industrial, and anything that pertains to specific possible flooding.
That should be something to consider.
Thank you for your time.
Wrapped up by John Nicholson.
>> Good afternoon, councilmember Brian White item 6 before you, these revisions to chapter 70 so I just have to ask, why are you doing this?
And why are you doing it now?
And also, who is asking for it?
Citizens, I don't think so.
It is the same special interest you already hold most of the cards they still want more.
And they will keep one or more until there's nothing left for the public.
Nothing left for us.
The state legislature already handed developers a golden ticket. You know the law stripped away local oversight and tied her hands in some way.
Silenced citizens in favor of the development lobby.
Now the rewrite, you want to go even further.
Delivered straight to the same developers you already have all the power.
Let's be clear, special exceptions are taken and bureaucracy.
There is a chance for an ordinary residence to be heard by you.
That is when neighbors can say it is too dense.
It is too noisy.
It doesn't fit here.
You need to put it somewhere else and take a break.
And figure out a better solution.
You take that away and what is left?
Developers get again, a blank check.
They get away like usual.
Let's not pretend the playing field is even.
Developers have lawyers and full legal teams.
It is your job to help run these things through.
You get paid to be here.
The people behind me in this room are not on anyone's payroll.
That takes time away from their jobs, their families, their lives just to come here and have a voice.
Reduce the opportunities to be heard you are telling the public you would rather insert developing interest then to the citizens that like to do it.
And your constituents even more.
So Council members, you are elected to protect the quality of life.
This isn't about efficiency or cutting red tape.
It's about giving developers one more time.
One more shortcut and one more way to avoid scrutiny and accountability from the public.
I will ask you again, why are you doing this?
Are you doing this now?
And who really asked for it?
Every citizen and Volusia County will see exactly.
>> Good afternoon counsel.
My name is Alina Kraft.
I'm here representing Volusia for this item.
Even though my doctor advised me not to be using my voice much while I recover from laryngitis.
I'm using it today.
Because this proposal is about taking away the voices of residents.
You are suggesting that more than 50 land uses putting heavy industrial use no longer come before this counsel.
Instead they will be left to staff in the field DRC that means residents lose two chances to speak.
We go from three public hearings to just one.
That is not streamlining or efficiency Mr. Robbins.
It's not about what Mr. Dempsey says as far as property rights.
It is a silent residence.
We all remember it is caused by the 2006 zoning mistake that is heavy industrial from agricultural.
Erin nearly brought 20 million to our doorsteps.
Many of those same dangerous uses are on your list today.
This is why whole road zoning must change.
Regardless of SB1 80.
The district deserves relief.
For the record Mr. Robbins were all built before the whole road was rezoned.
Stop, they were there first.
Instead of protecting these neighborhoods you are calling for cutting the red tape.
You're also running from reelection on that very platform.
Heavy industrial projects should never be advanced without multiple opportunities for public input.
Red tape exists for a reason.
It protects our neighborhoods, safety and quality of life.
As you run for Senate for District 8 you cut residence in the process?
Is this how you will represent Tallahassee?
Why did we elect you if you're handing over the responsibility of protecting us to unelected boards and staff?
You should be the first to defend our voices and not diminish them.
Counsel, we see what is happening.
We urge you to err on the side of giving residents too many opportunities to be heard, not too few.
[APPLAUSE] 
>> John Nicholson.
>> Daytona Beach side.
>> There are going to be some things that don't have to come before the board.
As I go back in history, you don't know what's going to happen.
There are always consequences.
It was rezoned years ago and when it happened it was like okay, it's commercial.
A big property out in the middle of nowhere and nobody lives up there really.
There are some people a little bit further back and lo and behold the fuel dump pops up.
Nobody had thought about it and the Commissioner from up there said I saw a fuel dump, I wasn't thinking about a 40 foot tall fuel dump.
I had to get up.
What we think we know we really don't.
What we are presuming this means we really don't.
The fact that the public is going to be cut out is a problem for me.
Years ago the County Counsel decided the public had no right to speak during the County Counsel meeting.
At 8 o'clock in the morning it went from eight to 8: 15.
If you had anything to say, you had to speak then.
Otherwise you couldn't talk.
Right?
To me that is not acceptable.
No council members should appear.
And I like the idea of the public being cut out.
Then when the public speaks things pop up that you can think about.
I do realize this.
I didn't realize that.
When people speak there are often times I will put in comment form because they pop up with something that I did not realize.
Like when the public speaks, all of this is a game.
I would really wish you not to do this and not cut out the public.
You're saying they always have a right to sue.
So, you too are asking me to come up with a couple of hundred thousand dollars to buy a big corporation who really shouldn't be somewhere.
It is not kosher to ask me to spend that kind of money.
For the rest of the residence.
That is unacceptable.
Don't ask us to sue after something happens.
>> Thank you.
And that closes public hearing for this item and opens up debating comments from the Council the motion on the floor which is to approve as presented.
I can't vote for this as presented.
I'm going to very briefly tell you the reasons why the following council members voted against this.
To give us the opportunity to get it right.
Another speaker, this isn't ready for prime time.
I'm embarrassed that I didn't find the seven mistakes I gave to the staff and they acted on and made corrections.
The public doesn't know that.
They heard about it right now.
Everyone on this counsel wanted to do this.
We want to look at permitting and reduce red tape in areas where it makes sense and all the things that I was thinking we still have five chickens in your backyard.
That's not the government's business.
We are still not dealing with that.
You can't repair your own roof with their house. Why can't you fix your own house?
Somebody said it is widely used in other counties.
Yeah it is, I want it to be widely used in our own County where it makes sense to reduce red tape and regulation to streamline.
This isn't streamlining.
What we ended up with here.
It's broad siding.
It's causing you to be unaware of major things that will affect you with no recourse.
You can go to PO DRC.
You paid attention to the County Counsel as the last line of defense because that is what we are.
That's what you elected is for.
To be her voice and to vote for you and to stop things that are going to harm your neighborhood.
Property might be zoned for a fuel farm.
It doesn't mean it should be there because the zoning should've been changed a long time ago.
And it wasn't.
So we need the public to be involved in this.
You need to be notified of it.
It is widely used and in our history private property rights runs one of the most important basic things that make us a Republic.
Early on in our democracy we started with zoning regulations.
Why?
Because not everybody respects their neighbors.
Have you noticed that?
So, we came up with zoning restrictions.
And I want to reduce the things that protect you from, when this document first came back to us I think our staff did a tremendous job.
Then we take every item that comes before the County Counsel and move it somewhere else.
I think the PODRC is a really good board that does really hard work.
And a lot of it.
I think Ronnie Mills, the chairman, is solid gold, first class.
He really digs in.
Emily Bush, Tony, people that I know and respect so when I say I don't want it in their hands is a final decision that is no disrespect to you Donna.
It is just that I respect you too much.
You need to have your elected body make these critical decisions; they are not elected, you can't throw them out.
If they are both wrong I can change somebody on there.
But you need to – on some of these most important decisions they are now passing down to somebody else we don't get to voice your opinion on and we are not forced to really dig into it. We are not forced to buy right or DRC.
You can appeal it.
How many layers of government are you now going to expect?
It should be us.
We should be the last voice for you and we should be the ones that you come to and say you got it wrong.
I'm throwing you out.
Or, I am applauding you. Let's finish what we started in reducing unnecessary regulations.
But this ain't it.
This isn't streamlining.
This is broad siding, please vote no on this.
Like there are many things you have an opportunity to. We talk about rights and some people have mentioned if it is a conservation easement you feel you can't come to us.
Yes yet here you are before it ever gets to us making your presence known.
Let us know you are not interested in it.
So you're already making an impact on us.
It has never come to us.
Has made an impact on us.
I don't know what the heck you're talking about.
So, you have multiple bites of the apple.
Before we even officially see it as an agenda item.
Some folks are talking about, I wasn't paying attention to you and you are talking.
We've talked about developers being in the pockets of developers.
If you look at most of the special exceptions used.
These are our neighbors.
People that Randy cares about.
The headquarters are coming to us but prompts commercials.
Financial institutions may be a developer but that's probably going to be in a strip mall.
And that's probably going to be a – funeral homes.
Health clubs.
Camps, hunting.
Those are our neighbors.
Those are the small businesses that pay the taxes that keep our taxes down.
This is the commercial.
This is the industry.
So, we can't call them developers, those are people in our communities that are employing us.
They are employing our kids.
Employer neighbors.
Employing everybody in this county.
So, those people and oh, by the way I think you know the flavor of my political slant. The people that I talked to in those clubs and groups all complain about bureaucracy.
Get rid of the bureaucracy.
We are not limiting public comment in my opinion because last year, last I checked 96% of all stuff that came to us that was approved for approval in the past.
The average time recommending approval and us hearing it twice was to and and a half to 3 months.
So we are saving anybody that comes up with that stuff, zoning changes and all of the variances is going to take that long to cut three months. What are we going to get once we do this? Can we come back and say who, we need to reach quickly.
Absolutely we can.
Somebody mentioned this stuff was excluded.
I've been saying into the thousand three it was already excluded and it was added in many cases.
Please know that you're acting in the best interest of the majority.
I would say the majority of the people I've spoken to this is a good start for me.
Councilman Kent.
>> I'm going to have comments about this but within five minutes I'll ask quick questions.
Greg's approximately 20 to.
>> Is every cost associated with anybody that wants to appeal a decision?
You can start my time.
It's okay.
I want to follow the rules.
>> You can get that you are either missing work or doing anything for him for five hours.
Thank you for showing up.
I've often said, and I will say 20 more times I will have a seat at the table then be served on the menu.
I can't speak for these other council members. I'm not going to try to speak for you but I'm sure all of us have felt like we've been served on the menu before.
It's actually one of the main reasons I ran for County Counsel.
I can get anything done on the beach that I learned is better even as an elected official I didn't have a say in how the beach was being run.
With that being said we received – I say we but I have received I think hundreds of emails on this chapter 70 to change.
And I believe 100% of that would have been against you.
Today we have 20 members of the public show up and 21 of them spoke against it and one spoke in favor of it.
I don't know where this came from. I've publicly said this and I will say before as well.
People like to be developers and I think we all live in a home and we shop at shopping centers because of developers.
I don't think they get painted as the bad guy.
So hundreds of emails against it.
20 1/20 against it today.
I didn't have anybody ask me for this.
No developer reached out to me and said hey I want you to streamline this process.
I'm looking at this list and these are things that I think, I don't just think, I really feel like I want to have a seat at the table.
Bars and liquor stores.
Going to go right.
You want to have a nursing home next to a nightclub?
You want to have a bar in the same strip mall possibly.
Something to think about.
Your elected representatives here can have a seat at the table to talk about.
I highlighted the carwash ear.
In Ormond Beach we had a carwash come, we approved it and it looks like SpongeBob SquarePants.
I'm not joking.
The mascot.
This is not Ormond Beach level.
And the developers of the carwash said we will come back with another plan and in other communities of Volusia County it looks like a cartoon.
In Ormond Beach it does not look like a cartoon.
I had a seat at the table.
I was able to talk about it.
I am not for this.
I voted against it a couple of weeks ago.
I'm going to vote against it again today.
My plea is to one of the four gentlemen I highly respect sitting with me to change their mind.
And of course to keep his vote the way it was as well.
I haven't heard from him yet but that's my hope.
And I will just recap it.
We are and rented seats that you all put us in to represent you.
This gives you, it just gives you a voice.
Many of these things we don't even have the lack of opportunity for you all to come and present to us.
Or stop at the County Counsel.
>> Councilman Santiago.
>> Listening to everything today I want to start with the lady who said he was angry.
I believe you by the way.
And some of the others I want to make sure one important point of these changes will not solve your Cross Creek problem.
Will not solve your problem.
But I'm saddened by the fact that I think many people including you ma'am that are angry follow the social media world that is often filled with misinformation.
You said Facebook, that's why I repeated it.
And this will not solve your problem.
That captures your grievance with a potential project that I'm not aware of.
If you really look at the details I asked the question, give me some specifics of the five of them, the few that were changing by right.
Tell me why it is a bad idea you know I learned about Cross Creek?
To talk about Cross Creek.
The public does not have involvement.
It is a deception.
Another is headshaking but you can't change everybody's mind.
To the reasonable ones out there, this is not doing that.
There are a few categories.
Thank you very much.
I stood quiet when you all spoke.
>> Please everybody control your tongue and your emotions.
He has a right to speak now.
>> Interesting nobody says disrespectful and then sells us but continuing along those lines I am merely highlighting there's a lot of deception out there than people that are running from campaigns today.
We have three candidates come up and speak and appeal to your emotions.
Please do your research.
That is all I'm asking.
Look at the list.
Look at the ones that we changed.
Call me.
Let's talk about this.
I'm willing even after this if you want to make a change why the specific one is not the good one to change and if the argument is reasonable, I will ask to change it.
But the hoax is just bothersome to me.
Troy.
The lady who said about major development elected this list again: what are we changing on subdivisions, homeowners, residential projects.
Not one is in here.
There is not one subdivision proposal change in here.
Don't be fooled by what some are trying to capture any campaign season.
I'm going to have a conversation with anyone out there.
Anyone that wants to have a legitimate conversation and go to the details is willing to do it.
Don't buy the deception during campaign season.
I'm going to go there because the hundreds of emails, you said that, we all got those emails.
We all know that when there is a because it is the ones that will come out and send out the emails.
It's the people who don't really bother that don't go on their way or cut red tape.
I've never had anybody here say to cut red tape shirts.
Normally it is to create more government.
And someone asked why today?
Why?
Because we can.
And also, I believe the majority of us believe in eliminating government abuse and overreach, what has happened since too thousand to and to thousand three more and more layers have been added to everything government does and it takes more of your rights away.
I know you have other arguments but the government continues to overreach.
That is my philosophy.
I'm ready to do more on other levels of government to remove as much government as possible for most people's lives.
That is my goal.
That's the reason.
You might believe differently.
Do you want more government?
I don't.
With that, I'm ready to vote for this and I'm open to having a conversation with anyone about any of the specific ones that we are really voting for.
Don't be fooled.
No subdivision change please.
>> Thank you David.
I applaud you for the last five minutes of the outcome of the spin.
Admits following social media.
I don't respond, I don't engage but I watch.
And I saw a candidate today, pure and say that we were about to pass something that would allow rock crushing and concrete cement plants to vibrate.
That is completely untrue.
Concrete plants as proposed are under the ODRC.
Not by right and you guys are sitting there watching these people in social media, candidates who you trust and have great resumes and you put stock in what they are saying.
They are going to come and say concrete crushing or rock crushing and cement plants by right.
No, it is peeling DRC.
And that requires one hearing and then you can appeal where you don't want – whether you want it or not you can appeal.
Where is this coming from?
They came up and said to the peel DRC to make the final decision, no it is not making the final decision you can appeal it to the Council.
Why is there so much misinformation being spewed on social media?
It was terrible.
As an attorney I see doctors all the time twisting the truth but during election season?
It really festers.
And the two people I respect most, or one of the people I respect most, George Washington said freedom and property rights are inseparable.
You have one without the other.
Then I don't know if you know it or not I respect her, she is a libertarian and conservative.
She uses property rights in this case that are not subject to public vote; a majority has no right to vote away the rights of the majority.
it is precisely for the oppression of the majorities.
And I stand with, actually Troy and Danny.
Because we've demonized developers.
We all live in houses.
Living in a development made by a developer.
And you know, what is amazing to me as if you guys, if there were a bunch of blue shorts in here saying it is Creek people I am a pilot, I am a Aztec.
I've flown for decades.
I'm not proposing this but what kind of people came forward, all of your neighbors, there are two hundred of them saying those airplanes are too dangerous.
This is the new Hall Road.
There are schools in the area.
Those guys still fly and flow formation like we are still fighting a war.
It's too dangerous.
Let's get rid of them.
When you want somebody on the Council fighting for you even though you are the minority?
See you can still fire airplanes?
If I lived there, I would.
So, I'm not here to satisfy, we need to worry about the individuals.
You buy a piece of property you should be able to use it we bought it for.
And it shouldn't be subject to a mob.
Telling you that you can do it.
>> Please hold it.
>> Even without all we are proposing it is to limit it to two hearings instead of three.
You know, when you go to trial in court you have one child.
You don't get a do over, you don't get to have another one.
The fact this is being delegated to the peel DRC is we have magistrates, hearing officers, things are delegated all the time to other positions.
That is appointed.
So they can make a decision on their behalf.
96% of these are rubber stamped.
Why?
Make them go through another hearing two or three months later.
It doesn't make sense.
Don't follow the spin that is going out there.
Somehow we are just trying to allow rock crushing plans to move in your neighborhood or that the peel DRC is going to be the last resort.
It's not true.
So I'm in favor of this.
Thanks guys.
>> Thank you Chairman.
Gentlemen, first off before I go any further everyone knows Rice did last time.
I was a no vote.
I don't make that decision based on popularity.
I don't make the decision to appear to appease anybody sitting up here or emails or any of them.
I made the decision because I feel like it is the right thing to do.
And yes, do I take into account that people send emails?
Absolutely.
I respect all of you.
And I respect your decisions.
And I respect why you are going that way, I might not understand it but I respect it.
The fact that you have it.
That's your gut feeling.
I'm going with mine.
I don't do it for applause.
Again, I think it's the right thing to do.
I want to repeat myself because I'm not a big advocate of repeating things over and over.
But, the level of authority, some things I wrote down.
John, if it ain't broke don't fix it.
I have a big newspaper for my dad who did construction.
Wasn't a developer.
Did construction down in the keys and we saw the rapid changes going on way back in the 80s.
And he had a quotation and a paper saying if it ain't broke don't fix it.
I like to live by that.
I believe in streamlining things.
I really do and I think we did a great job looking at the first part of this.
But it was these last things.
I'm in favor of things like this.
We need rock crushing plans.
We wouldn't have them if we didn't need it.
We need glue factories and to do these things I get it.
I just want to say.
I just want to voice.
I want a voice.
That's all.
So when you bring up the $650 to appeal to a lot of people that can't afford that.
They may not necessarily be the difference between feeding their family or paying their rent.
We all know about affordable housing.
We are not even going to get into that.
So that is a concern.
I love the comment.
Don't ask to sue.
Don't create it to begin with.
These are things that stood with me.
I know he's here.
We don't always agree.
There is no doubt.
But I said it last time, I will repeat that comment.
You didn't vote for the peel DRC.
You voted for us.
Make that final decision.
I am still a no on these guys.
Don't take it personal.
It's just the way I feel in my gut.
Respect the same thank you.
That's all.
To go to the bottom I didn't want to interrupt anybody but just to mention it came up in one of the comments.
Because of the world we are in now.
The person you have other things and you make a change to the zoning code and for sure this is the case in sample 180.
We can't count on if we make something less restrictive we could do that.
You can't make something more restrictive.
So, at least now for sure under 180 we couldn't revert back if you change your mind. That is a policy called by you.
It is generally thought that you can do that.
There could be other legal issues like I mentioned.
But that is the big one right now.
>> Thank you Councilman Robbins.
But Governor DeSantis I think he said it best I don't want to quote him.
Your own property is an unrealized game.
Property tax effectively requires all of us to pay rent to the government.
In my opinion Mike this is proof that we don't really own our property.
The government and our neighbors.
Counsel, public, that is a philosophical feeling and property rights is a big part of why I ran.
And they affect all of us.
These entitlements are for any specific person, they are for everybody.
So when I hear that stuff, it's pretty divisive.
I've been hearing it for the last five or six years and it doesn't work.
We are not pitting anyone against each other.
If I had anything to do with it.
But I respect everybody's point of view guys.
Rhyme stuck as I just can't understand folks who begged for more government because I don't.
That's how I feel.
I appreciate it, thank you.
>> Thank you.
Just a couple of things real quick, first I will tell you Danny, I'm not begging for more government.
I think I was with you when this first started.
The unnecessary steps we go through.
I'm not in favor of the government being in our lives from the womb to the tomb.
I know it feels that way sometimes.
We've heard from the Council there's no subdivisions mentioned you've heard about freedom to do things together here no subdivision was mentioned by everyone of your neighborhoods can be affected by some of the changes zoned for it.
And we tried to fight as the Council initially.
We may have to fight it again.
Some of these changes of cement and asphalt plants where we are incinerating dangerous chemicals, those do affect subdivisions.
And they also affect you and your health and your life.
I'm really disappointed to hear from people that I respect.
Associating what you just did and speaking to us with what you did on social media and emails let's not mob rule.
That is how the Republic is supposed to work.
Supposed to be bottom-up.
You're supposed to talk to us.
Almost everything I read was very respectful.
There were a few that were angry and mad.
I understand that.
Sometimes I get angry and mad too.
The people got it wrong.
And I don't blame them.
They got it wrong, the last meeting I can even keep up with all the changes.
They are all making notes trying to make changes.
They got a few wrong and then it got fixed.
But it didn't get fixed in a timely manner.
Understand that in this complicated process what you thought was going to happen.
That we would protect your private property rights and make it easier for you to conduct your life without the time and the money that it seems to have gotten off track.
At least it does to me.
We just learned today that yeah, you can appeal.
You can appeal the decision by just writing a check for $650.
Go to implode us for.
So you didn't have to do that.
You booted for us your lost voice.
The last thing our county attorney said is instructive and it's also scary.
If we vote for this we cannot do it.
We can't go back.
Let that sink in for a minute.
We should not vote for this until we get it right.
All the things we need to look at again that staff give us that still came to the County Counsel we need to look at that list again.
After voting against it.
We could protect not only your interest in property rights that deserve to be protected as much as the rock crusher or anybody else.
Now we need all of these things but you don't need them in your neighborhood.
This doesn't protect you from that work to be the voice you need without having to pay for it and go through the peel DRC.
Some of the things don't even go there.
It is very disconcerting.
That is why I will vote no on this and hope the four of us do and then we can go back and try and get it right.
>> KENT: So the public comment piece in the emails and the phone calls have changed my mind in the past, just so you all know.
I think that is how it is supposed to happen.
Is that I listen to my constituents and my life is changed.
I will give you a great example.
Last meeting we had a council member talk about my proposal of course on the beach and I said every single image we received has been negative and they voted against it.
Going back and forth with us.
So to hear that thought like, hey you know X number of emails may or may not affect me.
I'm just talking for myself.
This public participation piece is hugely impactful for me because I do want to hear what you are saying.
It also is impactful, 20 people spoke today, where is everybody else?
Where is the developer that asked me for this?
I don't know this gentleman.
He didn't reach out to me personally and say hey, I want this.
This is what I wanted.
Would've been great if you did but he doesn't have to.
So, with that being said to Councilman Dempsey and Santiago and Robbins and Jake, I would just say this.
And, Don there are a lot of people that don't have $650 hanging around.
I saw a video recently where the gentleman said he just got a really nice raise but then his healthcare provider said I want all of your raise and 20% more and the guy was spitting mad in the video I saw.
Getting tapped out every single year and I just wanted to say this, yes I am talking to you Dawn.
I too would like to have this voted down.
You don't win them all.
It is this.
There are a ton of people in our community.
Volusia County is known as one of the poorest counties in the state of Florida.
Supposed to hear that, you have three opportunities to bring this back before us and now you have two, you only have two if you file an appeal and you have the money to file the appeal.
That's different.
That changes the game.
And I don't think – for that reason alone, I don't think that is appropriate.
That right there, if I was on the other side of this, this would make me change it just because of that.
Also, what if you are the developer and peel DRC vote you down?
This is more burdensome for you.
Because you got to spend the money and go through an appeal.
So we will find out in just a minute my last plea was successful but, because of that alone, because of that alone I would think that we would set no to this change and hopefully that's what happens.
Now the board lit up!
[LAUGHTER] 
>> I think the free comment is a legitimate one.
I'm willing to pursue making it a fee issue.
You said that one was enough so I'm going to put this on you.
I'm willing to come as an individual councilmember address that's and maybe even find a way we can make it free.
I don't know the details but I'm looking forward to getting to that level.
It threw me off because I was going to say something else.
What you got to control your speech.
Can you pause my time?
Thank you.
It was a commentary about Facebook.
I want to be clear to the public.
There are a couple of pot stores out there.
Advocates for the cause.
I would say most of the time our bias and put one-sided information for their cost.
Which is most human behavior.
And they want to agitate people.
There are candidates I would just say across Florida that want you to say you have a grievance with anybody else because I am going to fix it.
I've been around this process enough to see that most of those are empty.
They usually turn out to be empty because this is very different.
Not that you change your ways from up here.
You have to balance, Don talked a little bit about, our jobs are many cases like judges.
And it's not popular.
I'm not looking for a pay raise, but you're right we don't get paid much for this but I'm not asking for one.
I'm glad you acknowledge that it is not easy and I'm not complaining, I'm just describing the role, our role isn't just how many people come into the chambers.
We are a community of and a half a million people.
Your voices are important.
They are legitimate.
As part of the process.
But our jobs are also to look and utilize.
We are a representative form of government.
What people have voted for is hopefully they will have a moral compass to make the decisions that you probably like all the time.
It never happens 100% of the time. I can promise you that.
It just doesn't happen.
I've been married for 35 years and I don't agree all the time but I'm still married.
Even though she says I'm always wrong.
I just wanted to share with the folks I respect your grievance, I'm not aware of it yet because I have not come before us but you should know I've heard your voices in your community as a group at least four times and that application is not yet even filed to come to us.
Don't buy the hype.
I think the members of the majority appear to respect everyone's rights and we try to balance it.
Glad to try to protect the majority.
Sometimes there will be folks I don't like.
And I will lead with this repeat.
The next 14 months are going to be insane.
On social media.
I suggest you call the source.
There's a couple of groups that popped up catching names that appeal to your heart.
They are biased.
Thank you Mr. Chair.
>> Let me just explain the mob comment that I made.
It's just a phrase.
But just to appeal to the group and read, when I made that statement, we've all heard the analogy of, and a room full of wolves and one lamb, if you have the wolves voting on what is for dinner tonight, who should we be representing?
The lamb or the group of wolves that want to eat the lamb?
My job is based on individual and property rights going hand in hand by our forefathers George Washington and subsequent people I respect, we don't always just go with the majority.
Sometimes you have to fight for the minority.
Even though there are 20 to – one here today, we have to fight for that one as well.
I just want you guys to think about it seriously.
What two years from now, you guys will bring it up.
What if the neighbors come and complain about the airport and what if they bring 100 of their friends with them.
These lanes are dangerous, they crash we have crashed out of Spruce Creek.
It's noisy.
Do we go with the mob in that scenario and just take away your rights?
Even though you bought it so you can fly your plans in and out of there now all the sudden we are going to strip it because the majority doesn't want you to find more?
I would vote for the minority.
These people buy these properties and business districts and they want to put them in a business district.
What does it have to go through all of these committees in order to get past?
It's like we're saying I want to open a carwash in Troy's subdivision right next door. The entry has no right to the same thing.
We are talking about property already zoned for that type of use.
We are trying to promote growth and industry and jobs in this community.
Why would we throw all of these obstacles up to try and curb it?
Especially with the big beautiful Bill Trump came up with.
It is geared toward incentivizing people to buy more property.
Incentivizing agricultural purposes I mean, stuff that is the biggest tax reform ever.
And here, we are going to throw all these obstacles up for potential farmers and investors by making them go through two or three hearings as opposed to one or to if you are saying your concern about the $650 to these guys, what about the extra money to the developers that have to pay attorneys and present a case twice?
What about them?
96% of the time nothing even happens.
So all that money is going to waste for these developers, I know you guys think I'm in the developers pocket.
I didn't take any money after the money was spent two years ago in the camping season.
Follow my money.
I didn't take money from these people or developers.
None.
So I'm not in anybody's pocket.
Not the developers and not in theirs.
I'm speaking from the heart.
You can't take away people's property rights.
You are right to fly in your community and people deserve to use their land for what they bought it for.
Thank you.
>> Please, everybody in the audience, I will tell you what is going to happen.
They are going to demand I have you removed from the audience.
Don't make that happen.
You listen for an hour.
An hour and and a half whatever it was.
And I'm glad for that.
I'm glad you came in.
But now it is our time to debate and then you take what happens here today back home with you and make decisions on it.
>> I just want to make sure everybody – I think everybody is aware.
I want to state what might be obvious.
For years in the past I would take the third one in the lesson.
They brought up bars and liquor stores.
They had to be permanent and they went through the process.
I don't remember saying that.
It was by right.
Everybody thinks we're going to do it in the backyard.
There are some inherent bottom large, most of these are things that – all we're doing is adding one more zoning classification that probably makes sense.
Without again they had approved and it came to us and two months later we approved it.
So I'm not so concerned about overstepping our balance here and getting out of whack.
I think this is great.
I think, Don you are spot on.
You have rights as property owners that do what you see fit on your properties in accordance with your HOA, your subdivision requirements.
All that if you have one.
If you don't, then, the counties or the cities ordinances.
But other than that, you're free to do what you want.
Tell if a farmer sells his property that's got a zoning or a future land use of urban something or light residential, then the person who buys that property has that land.
We are talking about personal property rights.
We don't want development, that's really what we don't want.
Let's keep our farmers farming.
Which a lot of this does.
I think it is important.
We need farmers farming and not them selling their million acres to developers.
That's the way to keep an incorporated rural Volusia County.
That's the way it is.
Let's work together to make that happen.
This is a good start.
>> Think of your chair, staff.
Quick question.
That fee of $650.
Yes, sir no?
>> The Council.
There was earlier commentary.
I believe it was the last meeting about eight of these came to us within the last several years.
Let's just say five years.
You are looking at 50 to hundred bucks.
Chump change.
If it will gain consensus, I will take Mr. Kent and Mr. Reinhart up.
On some of their proposals if we can waive this.
Will you get your support?
Simple head nod.
I got four minutes and five seconds.
>> It is a fair question.
You will be using my time.
I was under the impression that you can make that fee.
That fee was your hangup.
Right.
But that changes the game.
I think David started hinting a little bit.
Perfect.
Call the question.
Would you call the role?
And the motion on the floor is to approve as presented.
>> REINHEART: No.
>> Mr. Robbins.
>> DANNY ROBINS: Yes.
>> DON DEMPSEY: Yes.
>> Mr. Johansen.
>> No.
>> JEFF BROWER: No.
Motion passes 5/2.
Okay.
The public, thank you for coming in.
It is 2:03 p.m. When we take a 45 minute break until 3:45.
>> Chair we also have the executive session scheduled so it will probably be – maybe if we could do 30 minutes for lunch and then meet in the training room or, if you'd like you can take your lunch down in the training room and we can get started a little faster.
I think people might need a bathroom break.
>> JEFF BROWER: What do we do and get lunch and take it to the training room?
We are running out of time.
We have a 5:01 deadline. Is the meeting adjourned or?
>> No, we are taking a lunch break.
>> Will come back.
>> After the budget weekend –.
>> After the executive session you can come back up and read.
It's not adjourned.
See you down in a few minutes after you get your lunch.
>> Do you feel a need for protection?
>> No.
>> Three things I mentioned but I would have loved to have seen Troy's face a month ago or so when you're voting on the fuel dump and Mike looks at him and says Troy, you have to vote yes on this.
It would have been priceless to see his face knowing he would have to vote on something he absolutely hated.
Which is what you obviously passed.
When you say they have a right, by right they have a right to do something.
That fuel dump by right is – who knew, I never even dreamed that a fuel dump will not pass.
Nothing anybody else did either.
But you knew what was coming along.
Secondly it was brought up by the city commission meeting last night again parking around the ocean center.
There is an absolute need.
The county was allowed to build an extension and a huge building without parking.
So, there is a desperate need for parking.
We asked Troy, we went through this with major events, Peabody in the ocean center.
It is a mess there.
Third, gentlemen showed up in the last seven or eight months and he wants to know where the money is coming from, where it's going.
There is property there.
I can't tell you that because she will steal it.
He wants to know okay, if there's $500,000 in the CRA for the road, taxes, salaries etc. take to hundred thousand of it, they spend 19,000, where is the other to hundred thousand?
Well, we don't show that.
Why?
There is a lot of that in the budget and the money doesn't add up.
What they say they sent us and what you said you sent are never the same.
Why?
Money is money.
If you send $13 million we should receive a 13 million manager cut.
Where is the difference?
This has been going on for years.
You had somebody there.
Frank Bruno was on it and for some reason you left and you never put anybody back on it.
Please think about – I don't know how to tell you how important Daytona Beach is in terms of money.
The more money we make the more money goes into your general fund.
That's how taxes work.
If we are not building and doing what we should be doing you're going to lose money.
So I'm asking you, please think about putting something back on the board.
Thank you.
>> Thank you.
And that completes the public comment.
We will start with the County manager.
>> I don't have anything today.
I have enough tonight.
>> Nothing for me thank you.
>> All right, council members last year Reinhart.
>> REINHEART: Thank you very much on the forum. I appreciate moving forward with that.
Thank you very much.
And your support.
Next thing is, I was going to talk about, I did a trip recently with the Daytona regional commerce.
The purpose of the trip was to look at the similar issues we do with respect to flooding, transportation, tourism, and affordable housing.
All the things everybody faces.
Barry coastal community like we are.
They have been battling flooding for a lot longer.
Because they are in close proximity.
They do on the beaches we do but, regular rain events, just a regular day of rain, their streets flood.
Within 48 hours it is cleared.
So we've asked for more information on how they are exactly doing that.
So a lot of it has to do with old drainage they have.
They want to be thought up.
They meet with their Mayor and he is a Republican I just got elected that has never been that way up there.
Just to put it that way, not in a long time.
But he gave us great insight on some stuff so I will try to put together some stuff and George will chat about it.
I don't know if there is anything we are not already doing but it was nice to hear some of the aspects they are dealing with the same as ours.
Last thing is, I got a phone call about dangerous dogs. I know we are moving towards the facility close to 40 to.
I know we are handling that correctly?
>> Correctly will be led by October 1. 
>> Will also be dealing with unincorporated county strays.
>> That was my next question. I appreciate that.
I guess cities have to deal with dangerous dogs as well.
And one of the things, I think you know exactly where I'm going on this but they say they went to our website. It's up to the city to put that information out there.
And they've asked if it's possible because many will call us and then we are not the responsible party for it because they live within a city jurisdiction that does have animal control.
>> We are starting the communications campaign as we speak.
We know this is important because it's going to be different.
We are trying to get that word out so someone doesn't drive from Daytona over to the land.
With the dog.
We are going to be putting it out there.
We have to do something to get the word out.
Don't bring the strays from the cities with us.
It's only from unincorporated and then the dangerous dogs and the bike horn team might have more with the dangerous dogs as that goes.
But again, we are working also in the private sector with veterinarians.
Sometimes they will hold bike horn team dogs.
And several of the cities have worked with Southeast Volusia Humane Society lexically operation down there.
We actually donate to them.
They are a great organization.
>> Yeah, we really can't say enough thanks to the Southeast Volusia Humane Society.
They are continuing to provide service to us.
They were there when Halifax shut down over the summer and have done that.
So we are going to continue to support them.
I will say I think the cities are still trying to figure out what their action plan October 1 will be.
And, so we are going to work with them and bring you a fee schedule at your next meeting to update some of our fees to deal with our sheltering issues and it will mention a municipal fee for dangerous dogs if we have capacity so we are going to try to be a good partner.
We want to be a good partner with our cities.
But, it is somewhat difficult to say how many animals are going to be affected by this shift in service.
>> I think it's important to note just the distinction and the category that dangerous dogs fall under.
Once it's to that point, if there is an issue where a resident of any jurisdiction feels like they are a threat or there is an aggressive dog coming their way, 911.
Call 911 and report that and then that is routed to the appropriate jurisdiction for response.
That gets us on the right page as far as the municipality.
We don't typically see dangerous dogs being brought in from the public. I would not recommend it because they are dangerous.
They get to the shelter through an animal control officer, whatever is through the counties or municipalities.
We can guide where the appropriate location is for those dangerous dogs.
When it comes to the public, we do have a program or link on our website that if somebody wants to report an issue they can click on something and enter the address and it will tell them what jurisdiction they are under.
Like that was my next question whether or not we have the ability to do this so they know not to arbitrarily call the county.
But I like the idea of calling 911.
>> A dangerous dog is a different kind of situation altogether.
It's not the public having to guess where to take their dangerous dog.
>> Thank you very much.
Thank you.
That's all I have.
>> Thank you chairman, counsel I wish I didn't have to bring this up but, I believe at this point I have an obligation to address it because it has the indefinite effect of affecting all of our constituents.
On August 19, 2025 chairman you attended a Council meeting reference to SP 180 if you can recall.
I would like for you to offer the opportunity to tell counsel what exactly you said at the podium in reference to any state agencies, legislator, Senate and in what context it was said.
>> Number one, I really don't care.
It's public information.
You can watch it there.
It's recorded, but I went there at their counsel's request and encouraged them on a very hard vote. They were voting on numerous things.
One of them was to either join the lawsuit or to join us in pursuing options for amendments and I encourage them to do that.
To join us in our efforts and also they and I have received that day legal information from a Florida attorney that they were not in danger.
If they voted to sue as well which the mayor then talked about.
I do know how important it is for us.
>> And we are going to get there.
At any point did you call any state agencies or legislators lawyers?
>> Not that I recall.
>> Not that I recall.
It certainly didn't call any legislators lawyers.
I'm trying to get the legislators to work with me.
By any chance did you threaten any state legislatures?
>> Of course not.
Am I on trial here?
What I'm trying to do is give you an opportunity.
I already said it's public.
It was recorded.
>> I understand.
And last question.
Did you advocate for anybody to break any current state laws?
And you know how to answer that.
>> Okay thank you.
Chris, can you watch that video please?
It is six minutes.
Pay attention to the words because there are going to be some questions after this.
Turn it up please.
[Inaudible] 
>> Chris is there any volume?
[inaudible] 
>> It might be easier to go back.
And that's fine.
We were looking at 6 and a half minutes.
What is your point?
>> Just Carissa, can you just pull up the city of Edgewater Council meeting from that date?
I guess you're going to have to fast-forward to write there.
24.42.
And chairman, this isn't a witchhunt.
You are going to see where I'm going with this.
It's going to be about accountability.
>> Is not the video.
The audio just isn't going to the room.
>> Do need to contact while we are sitting here waiting on Councilman Robbins to get his gotcha. Let's hold you accountable. I'm all for being accountable.
Everybody listening can go to the city of Edgewater website and listen to this meeting.
>> Thank you. I appreciate that I don't think I need any more than 20 minutes.
>> JEFF BROWER: I am here to encourage you, I want to tell you how proud I am of you for the vote that was taken. It took guts.
And I'm going to ask you to stand up again. It's a hard vote.
I happen to agree with everybody that just spoke before me.
I don't want to see you turn from the moratorium.
We need this in place for all of the reasons you just heard.
And I think the attorney is right.
I've heard it from people in the public.
You will be attacked, the governor is going to remove you from office but, I believe, I received another legal opinion today from private attorneys.
I think you all did too.
I hope you'll discuss it.
That you are on solid ground for now.
You have time to fight and come back and live and fight another day.
What's happening to you is not the legal process.
So I'm asking you to stand firm.
We need this moratorium in Volusia County like we never did before.
We are on the very cusp of losing the whole reason that we choose to live here.
We are losing local control.
We are losing the protection of our own neighborhoods.
Of the Indian River Lagoon.
Spruce Street where development is just completely out of control and I think you're going to discuss Bill 180 to that prompted all of this.
It is not billed.
It is the most outrageous attack on local control I've ever seen.
The only thing that you and I will have left to do is go to ribbon cuttings if this thing stands.
We have to oppose it.
Now I want to say something about how to step supporting Senate Bill 180.
There are two votes you can make.
I'm going to tell you the truth, I don't care which way you vote.
Just vote and take a stand.
You can vote to join the coalition of lawsuits.
I'm going to applaud you for that.
You can vote to stand with the county's approach of having amendments for it and I will stand and applaud you.
We need both.
They both will go together and I'll tell you I'm talking to representatives.
I'm talking to people all over the state.
They are hearing us.
Here is what needs to happen.
This lawsuit is a gun to the head.
I understand that.
I'm angry.
I'm tired of Tallahassee pushing back.
Most of them came from city councils and commissions and counties.
And now they are up in Tallahassee telling us that we are too stupid to run our own cities in our own County.
I'm angry too.
I want to use that anger being put forward in this lawsuit with the amendment process and work with the state in the way that local government and state government are supposed to work together because I think it can work.
And I'm seeing evidence that it is working.
Number to outside some concerns that I've never seen a short lawsuit between governments.
They are always protected.
I don't care what I'm being told the price will be.
It will go up as appealed and re-appealed all the way to the state Supreme Court.
I'm willing to go through that.
If that is what you vote for.
I will support you on it.
But, what we need to do, the state is saying the whole reason for this is local governments take too long to allow homeowners to rebuild.
That's a lie.
And I've lived that life in Volusia County after hurricane Ian a constituent came to me.
The ocean came in within a foot and the foundation of his house between Ian and Nicole.
We have between September and October.
I went to the state of Florida and I said he needs a temporary Army or – is going to lose this house.
In two weeks he had County permits.
It took me two years to get a state permit.
It is a lie when they tell you it is the counties and cities that are taking too long.
They allow them to put a 4 foot coordinated cardboard see board up.
You can imagine what happened to it.
The tide came in and took out the rest of the foundation of his house and actually watched it on TV with whatever newscast was recording it.
His house split off and fell into the ocean.
Two years it took and they say that we are going to require them to build higher standards.
We said rebuild your house.
The state came in and said you got to tear down what's left and elevate your house.
The state did not allow them to rebuild.
So it is a complete lie that they've turned us.
What we need to do right now is make this whole election.
Half the people that voted for this are all running for reelection.
I'm not threatening them.
Not exactly.
But the fact is that we need to make these people.
All of us, everybody in Volusia County, everybody in the state of Florida and Texas need to make the issue that this election turns on.
And if they won't listen to us, if they won't listen to my appeal then take this inquiry to a special session and repeal this bill right now.
And it goes on and they decide they are not going to vote for us.
Then we need a new Florida legislature and this election ought to do it so we don't have any support in Tallahassee so stand your ground.
I respect you for what you are doing.
Don't back up in this moratorium.
Thank you.
>> Thank you Carissa.
Counsel, a couple of issues.
Three meetings ago this body unanimously voted to work with the state in hopes of getting modifications that we all agreed to SB 180.
I can get past chairman announcing himself as chairman and not saying you are there as an individual but what throws a monkey wrench in things is, here, this counsel is united and it doesn't happen often but it happened.
That SB 180 is an issue.
A serious issue that we all agreed on.
What I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around is, at what point with the odds against us and the stakes so high.
At what point counsel is it a good idea to step off the reservation and make some of these allegations or get diarrhea in the mouth.
What part is that a good negotiating tool counsel?
And that's the honest question.
It now affects every one of our districts.
Everyone.
So, whatever hopes that we had, this makes it now so much harder but, in one minute unanimous.
Which is all over.
In one minute we are begging for help.
The next minute, state agencies that we need for horses and dogs on the beach.
Expediting permits.
Legislators, let's just call it what it is.
Threatening our legislator body then two, as elected officials whether we like laws or not, I don't like it just like everybody else.
But advocating to ultimately break the law.
I don't know if that is the image that this counsel wanted to adopt.
I don't agree with this behavior.
I believe it's reckless.
In the manner that it was handled.
In the position that it puts us in.
Because now without talking to you guys I held back and I was going to write a letter to the governor or legislative body saying this doesn't reflect the views of myself in my district please.
Please ignore this.
But also that would have been selfish because it affects all of us.
And with the stakes being so high I don't think this can really be ignored.
I don't know what the answer is to rectify this.
What I can say is that that behavior, not narrative, those comments that were made are unacceptable.
Say what you want.
It's done, it's over.
They are unacceptable in my opinion.
Whether or not you feel the same way I guess we are going to hear it but somehow we've got to preserve our relationship with the state in my opinion.
If we have any hopes of modifying SB 180 you probably have a better chance of seeing God.
Something has to be set in my opinion.
And hopefully we can get direction or figure this out.
>> Are you talking to any state legislatures?
Because I am.
I also talked to county chairs around the state.
The state legislature, all of our local Volusia delegation came to the center at Deltona and told us that's why 180 went into effect because we couldn't do our job correctly.
We took too long to get permits.
We were causing people to rebuild at higher costs.
That's not the case that happened.
I wish you would write to the governor and inform him that his D agency, the DEP, took so long to give at least one member a permit for the seawall.
He lost his house and then his agency required him to build at a much higher cost.
Not the county.
Which is what they are saying.
180 because counties are doing a proper job.
That needs to be said.
I wish you would tell it to the governor.
>> And I very well may.
I don't want to get off topic because I still have my spot here but, at what point was it smart to call the state liars?
>> I didn't call them.
I said it's a lie to say that the cities and the counties are doing their job.
>> What point did we think it was a good idea to threaten our legislators?
Which obviously happens.
>> There is no threat.
It's called campaigning and running for reelection and it does give us an opportunity.
>> It's campaign season so I will excuse it.
Doesn't make sense.
I just understand Jeff's strategy Jeff.
We have to work with our state.
We should be walking on eggshells right now, we should be kissing their butts to get this through for the citizens.
Not campaigning on the dais with this much at stake.
We are under the gun and we cannot afford to make these juvenile comments in a public forum when you don't represent and speak.
That is not the emotion of this counsel.
You should be protecting this counsel at this point.
We unanimously voted on its chairman.
That's where I'm upset.
These comments hurt us.
It does not help us.
>> Now it hurts you because it gives you a chance to attack, once again.
>> Jeff that's what you are known for and you continue to do it.
The public is viewing it now.
>> You play a great victim.
>> You want to flip it on me but it is my responsibility to say this.
And I've been dealing with this victim's apology for five years.
So, at the end of the day counsel.
If you feel this is acceptable or unacceptable, say something but, we all know it's not.
I didn't say these words.
We voted on something here.
This is affecting the 110,000 residents that I have.
His hundred and 10 and his 110.
So, 
>> What I did is to inform people that they better get engaged and talk to their local representatives and even the governor need to hear from the public.
I'm everywhere asking people to their Volusia delegation write letters, send emails, talk to the governor and let's get this done.
They're the ones that have turned around and said that we are incompetent so they have to step in and do our work.
>> Can you blame them at this point when we are kicking sand in their face and asking them for help?
We are looking like a joke.
>> I guess for me I was proud of when we had that 7/0 vote with the amendment.
Not everyone but the general population was excited about the position.
And I know you said you were invited and you could have turned it down if you knew the subject.
Or for the practice that I tried to follow, I can tell you what I do when I speak from the counsel that I represent.
I talked about what the body is doing.
I don't try to sway any counsel.
This is what we are advocating for here.
And try to offer the extension of help.
The extension of professionalism.
The knowledge sometimes our legal team has.
I know you said you heard from a private attorney that they are on legal grounds.
I think you told them, ignore your county or your city attorney and listen to what this private attorney told me.
That's how I interpret it, I may be wrong but I don't think I needed to be part of the context.
With that being said I thought it was inappropriate because you are the chair everywhere you go.
If you are doing a campaign stump speech, go for it, that is campaigns.
Campaigns can work and we do that, you are in front of a governing body.
That's what I think.
And I'm trying to be unbiased on this but you crossed the line with some of the commentary.
Yes.
And Danny is correct.
That stuff has a blowback on us.
The legislature's acceptance was accepting the fact that they were okay with, let's work on amending SB 180.
Let's go forward, but you kind of punch them in the nose.
I know he said kicking sand but I felt like I was a punch in the nose.
And Mr. Chairman, the business that we are in, I know some people hate that we call it business.
It is people's business also.
It's working with others, developing relationships.
That is how most governing bodies, that's almost all elected officials, are successful in their agendas working with others.
And I will use the example today and I will bring it up later but you made an appeal today Mr. Chairman.
He said I want to appeal to my colleagues to do a certain thing or change their vote.
You've got to develop relationships in order to be effective with that.
And I think one thing that I've seen is you have a lot of followers.
I get it.
You're very good at that.
But when I talked to them,
Oftentimes they say you don't deliver.
And I think it's because of that problem Mr. Chair.
I know I'm kind of expanding, just giving you my opinion.
I think you've hurt the county a little bit with our delegation.
I don't know if that got to the governor.
I can tell you but I think that set us back a little bit.
You are always the chair.
You always represent this body.
That's the thing.
Campaign speech, fine.
Public meeting, I have to tell you, I think you crossed the line.
>> And Jake Johansson.
>> I spent a lot of time with some of our delegation here in the past few weeks.
And we've spent a little time talking about SB 180 and the changes.
I've also talked about why it happened and I concur that there are a few of them that think that some counties didn't react correctly to the results of hurricane Milton.
I don't think the originator was one of our delegations.
And I think the direct, the direction of it was maybe to another county and using certain things to delay rebuilding.
And that is why it came to me.
It is because the counties weren't reacting quick enough.
Not to me in our county necessarily.
And that it meant possibly other counties.
When they preempt, they don't preempt one county, they preempt every county.
So we get lumped in just like them.
The legislature did this.
And that is about probably three quarters of them.
I didn't do that.
I didn't vote for that.
But we lumped them all together.
Anyhow, that plays here as well.
When I go and talk to another governing body or even an Association, my going in assumption is that they assume, talking to the County Council member.
If I was a County Council member they sure wouldn't invite me to them.
So that's an assumption.
And I think we all have an obligation here to understand that when we are invited somewhere to speak as a citizen you probably would not have been invited to but you are being invited because you are a member of the County Counsel.
Unless it is part of your day job if they call you and ask you about your leadership consulting, your lawyering, your education.
Then I think that is just a different hat you wear.
And you put that on to represent.
So I think it is incumbent upon all of us, including while you're sitting here, to do the right thing and respect each other.
Respect the public and get the job done.
We are here to do business.
And I hope we can think about that and in everything we do.
Thank you.
>> The only thing I got to tell you, I was a little bit surprised when I saw this in the news and the thing that concerns me is that this was a speech he made on the issue of how Edgewater should repeal the citywide moratorium.
What is concerning to me is the law of the land whether we like it or not you have to follow the law.
That's what I deal with for a living.
When some lose some but I can't tell my clients with this regard the judge's ruling for you to just do whatever you want.
I want to say something.
It came across in your giving your speech that you are actually recommending to them they repeal their moratorium.
And I don't know, is that your position?
>> That's what I did recommend to them.
That they do not repeal it.
That they stick with it.
I will talk about that when you're done.
Their attorney finally did the issue.
>> This is how it came across to me.
And if you get your moratorium, I don't think you want any one of us telling our constituents to disregard it and keep doing what you are doing.
SB 180 is the law of the land and we cannot be going out there.
The law of the land is SB 180.
Together and advocate to the municipality to go rogue to become a sanctuary city.
We are just not going to follow the law because we don't like it.
If you got your way today and got all of this stuff that we wanted it and community meetings saying go ahead and follow the law.
Build what you want and forget the law, we actually cannot cross that line.
It sounded like to me you were advocating for Edgewater to disregard the law and do what you want.
Basically ThunderDome.
And so, and they did.
They voted the way he recommended.
3/2.
Which is really scary.
We cannot set a precedent if you don't like the law, disregard it and do what you want.
That, I really was concerned about.
So I get it.
At the other recommendations of following the lawsuit, awesome.
You want to sue them?
Everything has a procedure.
And follow the procedure.
Or, if you want to do what we did and follow along, so be it, that's awesome.
It is just to recommend or solicit the law of the land is very concerning.
That is setting a precedent for our constituents.
If you want to pay property tax just don't pay them.
We've got to make sure whether we like it or not we don't have municipalities follow along.
Which is exactly the reason I chose to ask this counsel to go through the amendment process instead of suing them, there are a lot of reasons but that's one of them.
What was happening and Edgewater, they already had a moratorium.
They had to decide to keep it in place.
They were following the law.
The law says that if they kept it in place and a developer came and made a complaint then they had 14 days to respond to it and could repeal the law if they needed to at that point to remain within the law. That was the legal advice they were getting that I got and their attorney gods.
Their attorney was doing his job as a city attorney and just like our attorney didn't want to put them in that risky spot.
They were going to vote for it and the legal advice was to follow the law the way it's written.
Keep your moratorium in place.
If somebody complains then you have 14 days to deal with it.
So.
>> Thanks chairman.
I don't care for the word hate.
So I will just say I loathe this for the selected body.
I'm not going to weigh in on the video.
Unders not going to.
But chairman, I do want to weigh in on something that is somewhat relative and thus our last Council meeting.
At the end you got a little upset.
And I only share this with you because I really believe this in my heart, I tried to live my life as a man who I say what I mean and I mean what I say.
Chairman, I want you to be successful.
When you're successful, this counsel is successful.
And I mean that with Don and David.
And Matt and Danny and Jake.
All of them win.
Because when they win, we win.
I firmly believe that.
This is not a one-man sport.
We have to work together and I will just say to my sweet father who listens online and watches these Council meetings, he died. I will see you at about 7 PM.
Comes over every Thursday night for dinner for guy night but that is another story.
I just wanted you to know, my dad had a ton of respect for all of us. He called me after that meeting and his response to his comment was that the chairman went off at the end of the meeting.
We are human.
We are going to do that.
But I know you to be better than that.
And I just wanted you to know, that last meeting, it was a good feeling for me walking out of here.
I felt like you lost it and I know you are stronger than that, you're better than that.
I know you were upset about the vote.
I'm not going to talk about what you said and Edgewater.
I've lost my cool before and I hope you guys don't judge me on that day.
I'm not judging you on that day either.
I just wanted you to know there is an older gentleman who I love in this community and we talk about all kinds of stuff.
That was what was on his mind about the whole marathon meeting.
We had.
Thanks.
>> Thanks for bringing that up.
I actually didn't go off.
I had a lot of things in my mind where I could've gone off and I thought it was pretty reserved and we can talk about it again if you like.
But I think it – I am a fighter for the people that come out.
So are you too.
>> You're going down that path already.
And saying that the other five of us are not.
>> You just said those words.
I never said those words because Troy and I were talking.
You are too.
He is a fighter for the people.
You can hear it in his voice.
And, this is a waste of time.
I've got important things I would like to get to with County staff.
I hear everybody's concerns.
I want the amendment process to work.
I have told so many people.
I've written about it in the West Volusia Beacon.
I am proud of our county attorney who came to us.
Came to me and said, this is dangerous.
For local control.
He and his staff sought before anybody else did.
I didn't have to go to him.
He came to us.
He wrote amendments that were so clear and precise I look at it and now I am sometimes criticized, your county attorney is weak, you didn't go far enough.
I think he did exactly what needed to be done and I appreciate him for that.
I am advocating everywhere that we follow the amendment process at the local government and should work with the state government but when the state government also, our representatives are told to go to public meetings in Deltona and say they were talking about other counties.
They were talking about this county.
The Volusia delegation that you guys took too long and you're not doing your job.
Chase Tremont is a friend of mine.
And I've talked to him about this.
He said we will help your representative and said he would work with us.
None of them have told me they have changed their mind.
They know that, I won't say who said it but one of them said this election will turn on us and I might not be reelected because of this.
I don't have the opportunity to – 9/10 of the bill is fine.
It is the last two additions to it.
It is a very reasonable amendment.
I'm advocating for that but Edgewater has serious problems with flooding.
Some of them were made 20 or 30 years ago.
All of them.
And they are getting beat up and I want to help them.
I want to support them.
>> Danny Robbins.
Chairman, believe it or not I agree with a lot of what you are saying.
But we are getting away from the fact that words have consequences and we cannot in one breath say the legislature can help us.
We are in trouble.
Please modify this bill.
And you send them this letter to go through the whole dog and pony show.
Spent the legal research writing the bills and doing all the stuff and then a week later did this idea to say stuff like that.
If there is a definition of shooting yourself in your own foot, that is it.
I'm trying to be as respectful as possible but these mistakes cannot happen.
So counsel, the question is, where do we go from here?
If this is acceptable to all of us, we say or do nothing.
If it's not and we wish to, and this is not the will or the feelings of the Council what was said during the public meeting that is obviously circulating, if that is not the will or actions that we approve of then, we need to send in my opinion a letter rectifying this and smoothing this over.
The legislatures.
>> Pick up the phone and talk to him like I am.
>> It's almost like this is a bad dream.
At times.
But counsel, where would you do this reflect the behavior that we want – in this message that we want to go to Tallahassee now that we are asking for help?
Is this acceptable or not?
If it is, it's dropped.
It's a dead issue.
If it's not and we think this is acceptable to work with our partners calling someone liars.
Threatening the legislatures.
>> Things to the point.
Tell us what you're thinking.
What are you asking them to do?
>> I would if you would stop interrupting me and that is another problem chair.
Council, what would you like to do?
Should we send a letter rectifying this or not?
>> I'm okay with a letter from this body clarifying our position.
To the Volusia delegation office Lieutenant Governor.
As I motion Danny?
>> All make a motion.
>> All second that motion.
>> Comments, debate.
Chris called a role.
>> I did not say her name, it's there.
>> I would like to seriously think about this.
I like the idea of the intent but, I think what we are trying to do is to mend the fence or to clarify our position or to make known to our delegation that the feelings of one of us is in the feelings of the governing body.
I also don't like all of these official letters going back and forth in our position.
So I think number one is, and it may have to remain clear often.
We represent his body.
We all represent this body and 98% of that time.
And that's important.
Number two, I don't want to formalize our internal family issues.
I don't want to tell daddy that we are arrogant.
I want to tell daddy that we are not happy with one of our brothers.
So let's just handle it.
I think we all have an opportunity.
The only person I have a hard time talking to you like that is representative gentry.
That is because it's mostly not ours.
That is no slam on him.
It just takes me a while to get a hold of them.
The rest of them, I can get a hold of pretty quickly.
And I can make my feelings known.
A phone call.
As I can with Mayor Leslie.
And Mayor Claude men and the rest of the mayors that I haven't named yet.
You know I operate that way?
I would rather just let them know my thoughts and let them say, I talked to somebody from County Counsel or I talked to Jake Johansen from County Counsel and he gave me some words of advice.
That removes us and makes it known that I'm calling him as an at-large member but more importantly a person who values his leadership and then to keep it kind of inside the lifelines of Volusia County, I don't like playing with our dirty laundry.
I like putting our dirty laundry out there and sending letters every fifth day to Tallahassee.
Because that gets as much attention as what we are doing.
So, let's try to give our brother internal but, I'm hoping that when any of us kind of goes off the reservation that you're up to it and I would do the same thing.
I know it hurts but I'm like okay, he steps out of line there.
Those are my thoughts on that.
Take it for what it is.
>> Thank you for your comments.
David Santiago.
>> Thank you Mr. Chairman.
Wise words.
You're right.
I think there is more.
There are a lot of unknowns around that also in highlighting it.
And, Mr. Chairman, I'm saddened because this isn't the first time.
Just try to avoid that and put us in this position.
Control that.
My request to you is to represent this body.
If you're in a campaign stump, go ahead.
It is a symbol asked.
I don't think it is a tough thing to do.
I will withdraw my second on that motion based on Jake's wise words.
And just hope that, I know you didn't want to address the video.
But you tend to stay quiet on these things and you don't  like these types of controversies and I respect that.
But it is a reflection on this body it reflects you just as much just like Danny says.
When none of us go rogue.
I'm projecting the words.
You want to say them.
 stakes are high here.
We do have a gun to her head but we don't need to make these foolish mistakes because all of us are going to suffer from it.
We need to be a team on this.
We can't afford to keep acting like this.
It's not kosher.
>> I was actually thinking along the same lines as Mr. Johansen.
If you have an issue , pick up the phone and call as opposed to putting our stuff out there like that because we don't agree or see things the same way.
We are never going to.
That's for sure.
But I think it warrants a conversation if that's what you want to do then pick up the phone and call.
>> Mr. Johansen, very wise counsel from you Don there.
I'm pleased that the second or in the motion maker withdrew.
I would have been a no on it for Jake's reasons.
That's why I put my name up to try to sway the Council but I didn't have to.
I will say I'm Troy chamomile.
My counsel has not elected the County Counsel.
I'm just using my own thoughts.
I publicly put it out there like that.
They didn't give me the authority to do that. This is just me as a public citizen also.
>> That was our belief.
>> Okay.
Thank you.
I will disclose it with this.
Here is the thing that motivates me more than anything.
And I've heard.
And I'm not disagreeing with you but I've heard from almost all of you saying you represent this body.
I know what you mean by that.
But I take my job as representing the people of Volusia County.
And I think what you're alluding to is going here and talking.
If you think I gave the impression that I'm speaking for the entire counsel they want under that impression.
I did start off. I will be more careful when I go anywhere and talk when it's my opinion.
But I represent the people of Volusia County.
I served with all of you and from the first time that we all sat together when three of you were reelected or elected for the first time.
I told you that my goal here was to serve this counsel in getting your feelings out.
Make sure you have time to work.
After the question or somebody else because we all do it.
You can make a decent decision.
So there is nothing I would like more than to have a great relationship. I'm told all the time you would have three votes immediately to help you.
They think that is the relationship.
There are three people just against me because it's me.
I choose not to believe that so I keep working and we got a unanimous vote on this. I am talking to the legislatures. It is important in this election because it does work in our favor.
I'm glad we are not suing our state governor.
I am called weak for that from some of the people in public.
But I think it is the stronger way.
Anyway,
Councilmember Robbins.
Are you done?
To the contrary during our last special exception changes at least two points asked you questions to give you more information.
The reason for that question to drill down for me is to help convince me.
That's what I was trying to get to.
It's like give me more Mr. chair on why you didn't like – I don't remember the specific topic it was.
But you should know and maybe your followers should know that the purpose of the questions was to help convince me of your position.
Unfortunately it didn't happen but it was a genuine approach to try to convince me.
Regardless because it came from you.
Whether some may not believe it.
That is the way I tried to operate.
I just can't let that last meeting go by.
I asked for the definition from our attorney what my patients meant.
Basically I will put it in my own words.
He violated the law.
Pretty much the description you received from them.
Mr. chair, you closed.
If that was a blowup, I agree with Troy.
I would hate to see a blowup.
And that is what surfaced around all of Volusia County.
Your supporters.
I don't blame you for what they did but your supporters.
That night they were blasting out, look, look at this.
These guys all committed a crime.
Four of us committed a crime.
Four of us did.
That's basically what went around Mr. Chair.
I would love to give you the opportunity.
If you are willing to.
To explain why we broke the law or withdraw that statement so maybe that same video folks can say, they did not commit malfunctions.
Can you elaborate on that and then this is over for me depending on your answer.
>> I doubt it will be the end for you then I guess I can.
And I intended to take this up with the county attorney after hearing his definition.
It's not wrong.
But, here is the definition of malfeasance.
This is intentional conduct that is unlawful or wrongful.
I think it was wrongful.
I'm not convinced that it was not unlawful.
And this is when I'm going to ask you to investigate not that however many councilmembers intentionally broke the law.
But I'm not sure in a charter government that an elected body can take something that they have been responsible for and hand it out to an unelected body.
I think that may be unlawful in a charter County.
You are not going into a dissertation right now but I would like to talk about it and make sure that we are on good legal grounds.
There are three words you hear all the time.
Nonfeasance is the failure to act with a duty to do so.
That is what I think happened.
What we just completed today will have unintended consequences that do harm and now we can't go back and undo because of 180.
Those are my thoughts.
>> You said just a minute ago you were unsure.
>> If I'm unsure I'm not going to accuse people of breaking the law.
He said unsure.
>> Yeah because I think it was wrong.
This is intentional conduct that I think is unlawful or wrong.
>> I'm just using your words a minute ago.
You were unsure if that is the case.
It's a strong word.
You got to be better at this.
I applaud Troy and Matt.
You guys were on the losing side of that vote earlier today and two weeks ago.
He didn't go around town saying you guys broke the law.
You took your political loss, legislative loss and moved on to the next subject.
That's what we have to do here Mr. chair.
>> Is not that easy for me.
I don't see it as a political loss.
It's a loss to the public.
>> In your opinion!
>> Did you hear them today?
>> Mr. Chair, there are half a million people that live in the city.
You sent out a call to come out here.
You are doing that for two weeks.
Come and speak, email, come out here and join me.
You got 20 people out of half a million people.
That does not represent the people.
You got to be better than that at this.
>> But you are wrong about that again.
I didn't go all around town asking people to come out here.
You said before we got out, people on the Internet.
They were mad.
>> You keep saying to my followers.
I don't have groups.
I have people that I represent.
They are happy to have representation.
Do you still stand behind calling four of us my patients?
Do you stand behind that statement?
>> No.
Do you want us to change it to nonfeasance?
I already said and I will say it again, I think what we did is wrong.
It was wrongful and I'm not sure it is lawful but I want to talk to our county attorney about it.
>> Based on what you know right now, did the four of us commit malfeasance?
>> Under the definition that you are purposely unlawful, no.
But it was nonfeasance.
The failure to act when there is a duty to do so which results in harm or damages.
>> I don't subscribe to that definition either.
And I don't know if my four other colleagues subscribe to that.
I don't.
Their goal is to go back to earlier times.
Your comments that I want to appeal to my fellow councilmembers to win the vote over.
You don't appeal to win votes when you do that with people.
That is not the art of what you are doing here.
You have to work with people.
You don't disrespect them.
Although it may appear to your followers that I'm disrespecting you.
>> I don't have followers.
>> You do.
It may appear that way but I don't call you anything.
I will never call you anything out there in the public.
We know what you are doing.
You think your followers are keeping everything secret you are doing?
It's not.
But I don't want to lose track.
I want to know, what is your description of the four of us?
Are you changing it and withdrawing malfeasance?
>> If malfeasance is a willingly unlawful act, yeah.
>> I don't have a problem with that statement.
I don't have a problem with you saying you were wrong and you disagree with us.
I will take that any day.
Please don't say you broke the law without any facts around it.
That's where I draw the line.
>> We are going to find out if it was lawful what we just did.
I want that investigated.
>> I'm glad you withdrew your, and I hope your followers put the video out there.
I will be up in 10 minutes I hope.
>> Does anybody feel like Jesus Christ?
If I walked across the Indian Lagoon I would say look at Brower he can't swim.
>> I don't play those games.
I stick to facts.
Sweet.
>> JEFF BROWER: Okay.
Dawn Dempsey.
>> DON DEMPSEY: I guess I would like to know from Mr. Dyer, did we commit malfeasance?
>> In my opinion no.
I think the Council exercised, whether people like it or not, it exercise legislative discretion to amend in an ordinance.
>> Where did you form this opinion?
>> I would say the same thing about any ordinance.
You are knowing willfully taking action outside the law.
Unlawful, wrongful.
That is the big one.
That's the worst one.
Where is this discussion of my fusions coming from?
From the state constitution it was before we moved.
Public officials in Florida from office.
There is a laundry list of saying my fusions is one of them.
I don't think adopting a new ordinance or delegating a responsibility to, let's say you're planning commission no.
People may not like it.
People may disagree with it but I don't see it as malfeasance.
>> It wasn't that Danny brought this overhaul of the land use code about a year ago.
Approximately one year.
Did anybody bring up this malfeasance?
Did anybody do this?
If you got your way you probably would have never even said the word or how to even look up whatever was lawfully to do what we had going.
What you blurted out there at the end of the last meeting was pretty bad.
That is a big word malfeasance.
Accusing us of conduct that would warrant a removal from office.
And I don't like that.
I really don't.
The day before you said that, in my opinion, advocating for going rogue and not following the law.
That is malfeasance if you want my opinion.
We took an oath to follow the Constitution and uphold the law.
Angie said there when they are debating the appeal and moratorium, and solicit them not to.
That is not upholding the law in my opinion.
That is malfeasance.
If we are going to investigate stuff, let's investigate stuff.
That's ongoing to say for now.
I didn't really appreciate it because of all the social media malfeasance.
There is an audio of what you said.
For everybody to hear.
In Europe they are saying we are committing conduct that warrants a removal from office by the governor.
I didn't cry malfeasance when you guys voted for – I didn't cry malfeasance when you guys do stuff I don't agree with.
You lost a vote.
Just take it and move on.
Don't cry malfeasance because that was – I didn't like that.
And I would hope that you would retract from that just because it spread like wildfire.
Especially during election season.
That gets picked up like David always talks about social media. It spreads like wildfire.
Now we are having to put out these little patches of fire that have been created by the accusation of malfeasance.
Together they have got to talk about just what we've lost.
Commander McBride in the last two weeks he passed away.
I just wanted to give my condolences, probably to the old-timer police who would patrol the city.
All the stores to let him know he was watching over here on Rich Avenue.
My condolences to the family.
And that's all I've got.
Thank you.
>> Thank you.
Based on a couple of comments that were made during public, where I think it was just during the item.
I've spent a lot of time and I met with the leadership of the flight probably two months ago. The number seven and the way the flow is, that is when I first started getting involved with what's going on out there.
And as I mentioned a few times people were trying to develop that area in the past and coming back and coming back and feeling and coming back and feeling.
And now here is another group that is doing the same thing.
It came with a big ask.
So it came with a smaller task and it's still not working.
So now they are understanding or trying to get to a consummation subdivision which may still not work.
They haven't come back yet.
But, the complaint is about drainage and can you put that thing up?
I want to show a quick picture of how we care about flooding development, if you look at the areas surrounding Spruce Creek fly in and see Rosa Holmes and a lot of ponds.
If you look south of the Airport Boulevard you can kind of scroll that up a little bit to show you had it.
Water's edge, pretty spaced out.
As you are scrolling to Spruce Creek fly in, look at how packed the houses are right there.
Then if you look at the approach of 2/4 which is the upper right part of that runway if you look under the D on things to do before you move it up and make it more.
It is as close as you can get there.
It depends on how liberal you want to count.
There is Holmes already at the end there.
There are homes not exactly at the end of the runway but off to the left and the right, as we've seen in many of the crashes that have happened there they are not right at the runway centerline.
The left or the right before they crash they intentionally run away and cross before they get there.
The homes are right at the end of the runway.
Is it a problem for me?
Sure.
That doesn't mean I am condoning this, be careful how you argue because some of them want what you are arguing so just be careful with that.
Another thing that was brought to my attention was the video of a gentleman on a bike taking a video of these dogs on the beach.
I don't know if you saw that so the gentleman goes obviously people were breaking the law.
So they were having fun with their owner and minding their own business. Let's go to the next level of freedom here.
I think we are a little too early for that.
But I just want to. I would very much like to see neighbors and close proximity enjoying each other and not understanding each other.
Somebody is over there doing their own thing and minding their own business.
I'm not a big fan.
When social media calls Karen's, I have some friends whose names are Karen's.
I'm not too fond of that but I think we need to take a step back and just enjoy each other for a minute instead of trying to turn each other on and are otherwise not following our rules.
It's our obligation to follow the rules too.
>> Councilman Kent.
I'm pleased you brought that up because I had someone who is complaining about – look.
There is a dog out of the zone.
We've broken a rule.
And unlike, when you zoom in on their faces they are outside of the zone but you want the program shut down.
Someone was speeding on 95 and caused a crash.
Should we stop all driving?
So Jake, I appreciate your comment sense approach.
Not only to solve problems I think you just carry that over in your everyday life.
I'm appreciative of it so thank you.
I had a positive meeting yesterday with two members from the leadership unit.
And if counsel is okay with this, with a head nod to George and Suzanne, I would just ask that staff, we reach out to all municipalities the EMS workers the fire station so they know they can go to the county fire stations they can go to use the restroom or maybe use the refrigerator the kitchen area, a place to sit down and get out of the heat.
Is that something that you would be okay with George reaching out to the cities and asking?
>> Is that something that George feels would be helpful for their operations?
>> Had no problem doing that.
We have done that in the past.
A lot has changed.
>> We actually, when I was in port orange one right down I don't know how long it lasted.
>> We are also working on other places including a special spot for folks and that new construction.
>> Thank you George and thank you counsel.
>> Mr. Dyer is not here so Russ, you are in the sea right now.
Personally I think Miss Scheiber's request was not out of line when she asked for an update on the fuel terminal.
So that is something you know, I don't think from a legal standpoint weighing in she just wanted the county to put the updates out there that the state weighed in and this is what they said.
And enough you heard that.
She's going to put the link on the page that way as things are produced it's there.
Some people may not know that.
>> And that satisfies that for me.
I'm pleased to hear about that.
I probably want to give you a second shot out today.
Counsel, Suzanne and, is it Mr. Bartlett who helped with the F DOT issue on Halifax Drive?
I just want to counsel to know those concrete barriers, ball outs, whatever you want to call them.
They placed one on South Halifax Drive on the corner where Billy's taproom is in Granada Boulevard.
In my opinion if you are going to hit it.
Evidence by huge chunks of concrete taken out of it in the tire marks around it.
But with Suzanne's leadership, a wonderful relationship with F DOT.
I thought I heard that they were going to thank goodness.
Again, common sense is prevailing but Suzanne, thank you.
This one is for vice chair Reinhart.
I'm totally serious about this.
We talked earlier about planting a vegetable program. The University of Florida holds a master beekeeping knowledge that is out there over at the County jail with this idea.
Answer tons of questions about safety effectively and efficiently and there are just so many huge benefits to having what they want you to pollinate. My last thing is, Monday, September 15 I will have my next quarterly district dialogue. It will be at Holly Hill City Hall, again that is Monday, September 16.
It will be from five to 6 PM. It is all residence where you can ask as many questions as you want.
Whatever you want to talk about, we will talk about.
And you have an hour from five – 6 PM.
We would love to see you there.
Have a great evening.
Thank you.
>> There is one more person.
>> We are kind of bound to start August 5, 2001.
At 501 is the advertisement.
Correct, okay.
>> Okay thank you everyone.
We are here tonight to do the first public hearing for September 4 25, this is important to comply with Florida statute 200 – 065.
We will discuss the millage rates and percentage increases and we have to schedule the second hearing in the final adoption of course occurs in the second meeting and I want to turn it over to Ryan.
This is a year-long process.
It ramps up starting in January our five-year forecast session because we know we don't just look at the budget in a one-year increment.
We tried to look for at least five years to participate in what is out there.
And of course we tentatively sent the millage rates as we are required to do in July the highest they could be.
Thanks Ryan.
>> George gave an outline.
Especially in May with the capital hearings.
But these hearings are the only ones that are actually prescribed this.
This one where they tentatively adopt millage rates and the budget.
One of the things that we have to do is show all of our millage rates rollback adopted rates for the previous year with the revision to the fire millage based on the action taken by counsel the trendsetting.
We have four rates of unchanged tax rate.
In accordance with Florida statute.
We are collecting more revenue than we did in the previous year.
To .007 Mills collects to to million dollars where the rollback will be 3.0 64 that will collect 190 to million.
The additional $9.7 million of tax revenues are dedicated to offsetting revenue shortfalls, decreases and what we've been talking about for a while now and state sales tax collections which are shared to the county.
I would like to reiterate that our PIO inspired me.
This County Counsel counties and municipalities.
Similarly there is a state revenue sharing program which is a slightly different formula although it is very similar we had to decline the fees primarily related to the tax collector.
They've submitted in their budget to the state the Florida Department of revenue approves the budget for that tax collector.
They've submitted to do some office renovations and expansions and due to those increased expenses we expect we will receive less excess fees back.
For reasons we previously talked about at length we will have to do a higher level of transfer to the beach fund.
We also have mandatory expenditure increases such as the DJ J increasing by million dollars a year.
It is a requirement of the county's funds: half of the local DJ J state Medicaid, state shares, a portion of the states required federal match to the counties so we have to pay part of the stakes here.
That piece has gone up by a million and three.
The first year on route we don't have to pay for the station fully.
Related to the property appraiser.
Submitted to a building renovation to occur in a reserved line budget of 1,000,005 which increases the general fund contribution by over million dollars.
It is not the entire because the general fund is only part of what funds the property appraiser's budget but it is the lion share.
So is over a million dollars.
Then there is the law enforcement fund.
Our separate fund that funds the sheriff.
This will be the third year with the law enforcement rate. If we recall, three years ago we separated out the funding for the sheriff and did a separate tax rate so when every trim notice and tax bill they had a separate line.
It was originally called Public Safety; it is now being called law enforcement for this year and for the coming year.
It is completely to fund the sheriff's budget.
Enzyme we have increased in this fund, it is done to fund the sheriff's budget.
That tax revenue in this fund is 1.5994 Mills which brings in about $101 million.
The rollback rate of 1.518 to a flat millage rate of .000 Mills.
The rollback rate for each of those and for the concert dedicated 15% that we do for the municipal service district 1.6956 Mills which brings in 1.596 Mills.
It will bring in one point to a million dollars more than the rollback rate.
That is also dedicated to the sheriff's office.
There is a piece of the sheriff's office related to the unincorporated area if you recall we were kind of talking about peers and in the past the increased law enforcement services that are provided across the county.
That piece, the dedicated additional patrol, has gone up over a million to.
So the entire million is dedicated to that purpose.
You may recall the forecast for this fund.
It is actually currently operating at a deficit position.
This one is not recommended to do anything other than the – the fire rescue district compared to rollback for the ad valorem tax revenue proposed to 3.841 to Mills which would bring in $50 million, the rollback rate of 3.63 they would bring in $47.0 million and a additional 2.8 million of ad valorem revenue.
And we have a series of separate slides.
This actually is going to conclude the phone discussion because they are the other ones at the rollback rate they don't require additional discussion.
These are the forecasts without the options that they will come up in just a minute and talk about.
This will come up as they stood previously.
At the rollback rate the taxes that would come in would be $47 million.
Total revenue of $55 million being one time funded related to the volunteer firefighter pension closure.
It would leave reserves, additions to reserves of $4.5 million for this year on top of funding a capital transfer of $5.8 million.
In total, you look at the very bottom line of 24 – 25 estimates.
We estimate to be at $26 million of reserves at the end of the fiscal year.
At the end of this month.
By the end of the five-year forecast which is four years from now we would be at $44 million.
In addition we are funding increased demands for capital.
I did not show this forecast before the presentation.
Food was provided in the recommended budget book.
This provided the other side of the transfer.
It is shown on the forecast but I wanted you to see the actual forecast. It is across the five-year forecast.
Aaron may cover, if you have any questions about those particular projects.
I just want to highlight the capital plan that is being currently funded.
There is a pretty robust capital plan with $40 million over five years being sent to this capital fund.
This is the prior five year history of property tax revenues in 2021 we were at $30.6 million.
Five years later at the rollback range we would be at $47 million an increase of over 50% in five years.
If we were to go to the flat rate it would be even higher.
I have $15 million.
>> The director of emergency services there.
>> You guys that you're going to get away from me this year.
Before we get into these slides I will be very brief.
I want to say I know a lot has been said over the last few meetings.
We have a very passionate fire services division.
We have a very passionate EMS division.
Bush County is lucky to have them.
We truly are blessed to have great men and women if they do a great job for us.
The way the budget process works.
Budgets are submitted in April.
Around April 15 I think was the deadline this year.
We don't get the preliminary values until June 1. We never budget for the taxes we think we can get.
We budget to our needs and then we tax to fill those needs.
So, there are things that we could do better.
We are evaluating them continuously.
Working with the Fire Chief and with EMS director Kevin Captain coming up with different ways we can do things and improve the system.
Anytime we have something we will deftly bring it forward to you guys.
This gives you a couple of options if we are between the rollback and flat rate.
For the rollback millage, at the rollback millage it fully funds all of the current service levels as submitted in the budget request.
Anything from the budget request that was submitted the taxpayer savings at the rollback rate would be about 30 to dollars and $0.64 based on $150,000 of taxable value.
It does add like Ryan mentioned 4.5 million in reserves.
The additional reserves will be dedicated to future capital needs as of right now but it can also be diverted to increase operational needs if required.
Through our evaluation of services we come up with something else then you can revert to reserves after that as well.
As a flat millage rate option at the 3.841 to we asked to come up with, where without additional revenue go.
We have some options to increase our service levels with the additional funding.
The first one being an increased rule response of water supply.
We would add a tender truck and three firefighters to increase the water supply ability in the Volusia area.
None hundred and 30,000 so just south of a million.
And that would help us address some of the water supply fire sprinkler issues that we have been faced with in recent months.
We have a second option here.
This is still a plan that is being flushed out.
One of the things I got mentioned was the time on scene for a fire.
And in this scenario we already have what we call quick response vehicles in EMS.
We use that as part of the program. They are in a SUV and they are getting on scene a little quicker than an ambulance sometimes.
As an option we can find three quick response vehicles in an unincorporated area.
When we are talking we found three quick response videos in an unincorporated area to leave fire until the transfer unit can arrive.
Additional funding for 47 land purposes we are budgeted for the land per station 47 the to thousand dollar difference the land is currently in the appraisal phase to make sure any of these fair market values we went to appraisal.
But we could dedicate the additional 10 to 13 to that.
Then the advance funding for the currently forecasted fiscal year 27 – 28 we can dedicate 927,000 which can be the balance of the million to advance the funding of the logistic center.
So with that, unless you have any questions specific to me, I will turn it back over.
>> A lot of people on the board, does anybody have a question for Aaron?
>> Of questions for both of them.
>> Lots of questions.
Councilman Santiago.
>> Just to go over the options.
Those are two different distinct options.
I was your scenario option B.
It is the cost of the flat millage.
The additional revenue we received and then he would have  four different options: your fire scene relief units would be approximately 765.
>> I misunderstood that.
Thank you for that.
There was a line item in there for $5 million that was going to be put in.
>> That's $5 million from the volunteer firefighter fund.
Added this budget this year to the fund.
The majority of that would be following reserves.
>> Of the to .8 how much is occurring.
>> 2.8 of the expenses?
Roughly a little over 500,000.
It is mostly capital other than that.
The personnel would be roughly over 500 apiece.
>> So to recap, this proposal that you have here is new stuff proposed based on the action we took at the last council meeting regarding staying at the flat millage.
>> Essay.
>> The district center is in our five-year plan.
>> Let me ask you this question.
Since it is to .8 million, could we – we do these enhanced projects and to get out of the 5 million and still put money in reserves and fund these additional enhancements?
And leave the millage at the rollback?
>> Yes sir.
>> Those are options.
>> Then I got a question for Ryan.
I hope we can talk about that more.
>> You were talking about less fees collected.
I think you referenced the tax collector.
And we are projecting to get less this year from the tax collector's office because there are some capital improvements and remodeling?
Is that correct?
>> And just for the public understanding, we get these access funds that we count on for the budget that we make part of our budget from the tax collector's office.
So, the more he spends, the less we have for other general funds.
>> He collects fees for his drivers license.
>> Then you think he doesn't spend too much time answering your question, yes.
>> So the more he spends – that basically tips the scales on the other side for adjusting our budget.
That means we have less money to fund the budget.
>> That's what's happening this year.
>> The tax collector roughly?
>> We are going down by about $1.7 million in some offices I believe.
>> A million dollar hit to our general fund.
>> Yes.
I'm highlighting this because I want people to know the stresses the general gets.
Based on certain constitutional members and what they do.
That doesn't show up on a trim notice.
That's why I wanted to talk to my colleagues.
I think this council has in the past voted that we thought the legislature ought to address the property tax system.
I want to highlight one additional piece.
I would love to get support from this council and specifically the general public don't know.
I'm going to now pivot temporarily to our property appraiser.
I learned recently our property appraiser is getting ready to propose to thousand dollars for every employee and pay for the healthcare who already pays for healthcare for the entire family.
In addition I heard you correctly said he proposed in this budget $1.5 million for a reservation of this building that he doesn't have yet.
Renovation money for a building he doesn't have.
In addition another half $1 million is kind of very vague in there.
It will be the last page of the property appraiser's budget.
>> These are things that people don't see in my colleagues.
We don't see it because we have to bury it in our budget and we take the blame for it.
>> Can you blow it up a little bit more?
So show us what I was talking about.
The request session?
>> They approve the budget so they have NI system 90 to other contractor reserves with requests as $1.5 million for the renovation of a building.
The other special contingency 527,000 that is for other agents that would have to apply to the Department of Revenue to actually use.
>> Is a total of $2 million.
And within that million dollars the cost of the two thousand dollar bonuses are not in there.
Within that million dollars the cost of the bonus is not in it?
>> If he was budgeting in advance for bonuses, the personal budget, not this budget.
>> The additional cost for healthcare for the entire family is not in that number either.
That would also be in the personal budget.
>> Again I'm only highlighting this gentleman because our county employees get full healthcare for all of their families.
Maybe that's a good thing.
But I don't know.
With the pushback we are getting with the budgets, this is not acceptable.
I think it needs to be highlighted back to the state of what is happening with this.
And I would like to propose that we have an option legally allowable to us to appeal this budget to the state.
Saying we don't agree with these specific items.
I know it's a statement but I think it needs to happen in today's world.
What's happening with expenses and the emphasis on, we are not a road county when it comes to expenses.
I think a lot looked at us in the governor. There are a lot more bad actors.
Not allowing things like this to happen to the governor in the legislature.
Additionally I think this would bring attention to a cause that we can help champion to renovate the trim process and on how the legislature will do that.
They've got plenty of resources to figure it out.
But we take the blame for these costs.
Volusia County Council raised taxes $10 million.
When you really drill down and I'm sorry I will wrap up here.
But when you really drill down to the amount, the expenses, our general fund we are doing pretty good and we are not spending a lot of money.
It's happening in other areas.
So Mr. chair when we are done with this maybe I'll ask for motion at the end.
>> Sorry and I've got my soapbox.
Thank you.
>> Let's stick with questions right now.
>> Think of your chair.
The governor has been proposing property tax on home properties.
Say that goes through how would that affect us immediately with funding responsibilities?
>> We first have to put a bride in the hospital.
>> But every day as we get closer this is as far-fetched as this once was.
I'll bet a paycheck that it is probably headed that way.
What kind of position is not going to put us in with our general fund and finding our first responders.
What I'm getting out  with counsel is this something to stay at – even though now these things are fully funded.
But what happens if we throw this curveball here?
Very shortly.
Ryan, take it away.
>> There's a lot of press about different proposals and property taxes.
Something I actually heard which is focused on homestead properties.
After seeing exactly what that was.
In general if there is a massive cut to revenue.
We would have to make up that revenue.
And cut to expenditures.
>> How many properties, probably 160 or 70,000.
This is something to think about obviously.
>> I think the makeup of our tax base on previous slides, we are heavily residentially dependent.
So just off the top of your head a lot of them would be homestead.
Of course there are vacation homes and stuff they are not.
But we derive a tremendous amount from other communities that have more industrial, more commercial.
But we in this county would probably take more of some other places.
I would just put it out there and lay my cards on the table.
That is one of the biggest motives I had for keeping that fire in preparation for this.
I think we should think about it.
I think we should discuss it.
We are going to need some numbers.
We're going to keep planning to see where we are possibly headed.
>> There's a lot in the air about what that would be dedicated to local governments in that we ought to pass the voters this could affect property owners and residents of the state.
There's a lot of hypotheticals of what could happen.
But we have to see the exact scenario to properly estimate the plan.
It's hard to produce numbers on how we plan for that.
>> Matching the ballot language.
Vote yes to and property taxes.
It's going to be better than sliced bread.
We are going to figure this out.
I want to fully fund our first responders across the board as best we can.
We could not possibly come back and hit him.
Hit him hard.
That's her my head is at.
>> Thanks for bringing that up.
And you're right, there are variables, hypotheticals.
30 years in a world of what if's.
And so I played with that.
Especially with respect to public safety.
And this may be an error in question.
Keeping that mindset about the flat rate.
I am a big-time advocate of law enforcement, all of that, EMS.
Current cost for any basic fire truck.
1.1 million.
>> Roughly?
>> And if we order a truck today or in October it may take up to 33 months to get that truck.
So we would have seen until 2028.
Imagine what the cost will be later.
>> The vehicle replacement pan.
>> I know.
I'm just pointing out facts and verifying those facts.
The cost of new trucks obviously keeps going up.
And I've been yes, sir no anywhere from 1.5 to .5 million in the next five years.
Artie takes 33 months to get a new one.
I respect the fact that we have a great replacement program.
The cost for repairs went up.
Capital projects, understanding and I think you very much for supplying the slides of what capital projects were intended for the next five years.
I don't know the rollback.
Does it reduce anything as far as size, square footage or anything of that nature?
>> The great has no effect.
>> How much did you spend on that?
>> And another capital plan I've tried to make clear, if we start running low on our reserves.
We're talking about 40 or 50 year stations.
Bonding that capital is an appropriate use because future generations should pay for the assets they are going to be using.
So, bonding capital should never be a scary option when we are talking about a fire station.
>> And then the new logistics she talked about is just over 900,000 two, this is something we have projected for 27 – 28.
And going to that now, regarding how the area I guess of where we would like to go.
>> We do not.
We would have to identify one.
The logistics center.
The reason it was pushed to 27 – 28 was to get more time for management to lay in and have discussions because there is wants, there is needs and sometimes the wants and needs get mashed and then sometimes we need to just flush out.
Is there a compromise?
Right now the idea is to look for a storefront.
And renovate a storefront.
So that is around a million dollars is what we are looking at in total for that.
>> That is my next question.
And I figure from the first page of that budget book we're talking on future, capital, challenges, funding.
That is a huge thing we plan for because budgets are on this one.
One of the challenges facing long-term financial stability is how to major capital projects.
I guess I was looking at, what can we do now as opposed to later.
They get to answer my questions.
>> Thank you sir.
I have – I will ask Ryan.
Is it safe to say we have enough reserves to pay for a lot of those, mainly buying the land early for station 40 or whatever.
And then only be a hiccup.
>> As Councilman Santiago pointed out we have the $5 million and the majority of expenses of the whole time in nature.
Just like Aaron said.
>> And is it safe to say.
I'm asking this question.
Is it safe to say that we budgeted, we did a good job.
A budget is only an expectation of what is happening. Lucian some additions we see something that didn't work out based on what we budgeted but in the fire fund in the past by the best we could.
We've overtaxed our citizens.
>> Building up reserves, one of the ways you do that is by taxing say you add to reserves.
So, as I understand, we have a decent reserve.
We can pay someone not on our option list and we can go to the rollback and not overtaxed at least for one year to let it globalize id see how it goes.
The taxing to any budget.
A budget tear and the taxes are – but if you look long-term 20 years, we are pretty close.
And we just kind of nudge it up and nudge it down based on the five year forecast.
And figuring it out.
Safe to assume?
We will be defunding public safety if we were to rollback.
Councilman Kent and Johannesen, what is going on with you and me today with these mind waves but I loved your question.
Thank you for that.
And counsel, a tiny tad bit off topic, there is a firefighter in this room.
When I didn't have my mother.
My sweet mother was dying. They transported her from her house. I'm sorry, I was first on the scene and the EMS transported her.
I've got love in my heart for this person and is what to put that out there.
You're helping my mother.
I'm always going to love you.
But we can disagree.
And I just want to make sure I heard this correctly.
Ryan.
We are still bringing in over 800,000 that we did last year.
I just wanted to make you say it.
I want you to earn every penny today.
>> At the flat rate it would be a total of 3.6.
And, this ad energy says about the current year, yes.
>> The total five year forecast was 8 million.
I mentioned earlier how I feel about people that took care of my mother but the nonsense, if you don't do a flat rate you are not a supporter of first responders.
Absolutely not the case.
At all.
The case is, I am a supporter of making sure we are funded properly, which we are.
And then putting that extra money that they want to have in their fund in your pockets to keep.
You should keep that money in your pocket.
Not just continue to give it to a government agency and then we ask you at the last meeting, come up with some ideas of how we can spend this money on the fly.
And then we started getting – you do at the Council ask you to do.
But every department head in here if they have their own fund would be thrilled with an additional $1 million.
Give me some ideas of what we can do with this money, take your points for spot on, right on.
There is no reason to not get a rollback in the fire fund.
It fully funds everything that this county wants to do presently and that is in my opinion the appropriate path to take right now.
We will deal with the future in the future and kind of debate which way to go.
I will do a little bit of that.
Looking at this slide we are talking about the rate of growth and reducing the rate of growth.
It is still growing.
What I'm wondering is, if I look at the $5 million you transferred and from the excess volunteer firefighters.
Why was it proposed to begin with?
The quick response budget for land budget purchase.
>> Of the budget for the land purpose.
We just got that total a couple weeks ago as far as the negotiated price for that.
We didn't know that was coming.
With things like that happen we are always going to come for you and take it from reserves.
We are not just going to say you can't do that project now.
We are going to ask you to spend more money on it.
But that just came up.
As far as why the other stuff wasn't requested as I said in the beginning, we are constantly looking at transports, fire and what we can do differently if you ask. I'm not going to point out any personnel needing to add this to fire.
We need to flush that stuff out.
We can always come back to you, we have the reserves.
I'm never going to come up here and tell you money I don't need.
If I give you the extra money I will find a way to spend it.
I'm always willing to come back and say hey, we need a little bit more.
I'm not scared to come to you in a year and two years and say we made a mistake.
We support public safety.
I'm not going to stand here and say do it, don't do it.
We can do it with it.
>> We gladly accept the $5 million transfer and spend too much 835 700 and five dollars for the things that are on this list because they are all good things.
I do want to mention this five-year forecast. It always shows 5 million.
>> You see the gray line where it says 4.5 million it would not be 4.5 million if we find all those things.
It would be a lesser amount.
>> That's the difference.
It's a need that we have.
>> I'm going to interject.
One of the ideas really was the result of an issue that's come up since we've had the budget together.
Which was the sprinkler system.
It really was working with the Fire Chief to come up with some solutions.
And that became one of the solutions as well.
If we change the makeup of the equipment in that particular rural area again, I challenge them to figure out a way to make sure they had the equipment they needed so the homeowner wasn't necessarily settled with the sprinkler and of course also match the fact that there are literally hundreds and hundreds of other homes out there already so the sprinkler only helps those homes that currently have it in the neighborhood with 700 more homes without it it's always better that the fire department has the right equipment they needed.
A little bit of a win for a whole rural area rather than just find something.
>> Exactly and that is where I was going.
It doesn't solve the problem for that particular.
I live in a rural neighborhood.
It helps me and all my neighbors too.
I feel a little bit selfish but I feel like we have it now but apparently this would make it better with a truck, three firefighters.
Here is the issue.
And it's been voiced as, nobody appears to cut first responders, nobody does a wheel cut first responder.
This doesn't cut anything from firefighters.
These are the core responsibilities that were supposed to be funny.
The fire law enforcement when we come down some and that was really hard to do anything about the problem that we all have to do with we are struggling, we are looking at, how do we fund the needs but we all such ask all the people that live in Volusia County all 600,000 of them now how do they make ends meet how do they pay their insurance in their mortgage and County and city taxes.
We have to balance it out.
There is not a hard balance here because you're not cutting the fire funding if we go to rollbacks.
That's where I'm waiting.
That is the end of questions.
>> Actually have more power points.
>> Everybody's name still appears.
If you delve into another question please take your name off.
>> Going back to Volusia forever.
Effort with the proposed is.
Is it for a flat?
>> How much extra does that bring in?
For each program.
>> We don't know what that equates to.
150,000 you know how we say that.
>> NL last year we had this discussion.
That is one point to million dollars we have to remain consistent.
>> Sorry Ryan I should have given you a heads up.
I know that forever is 30 million.
Almost there.
In the 26 budget the ending reserves were 14.7 million.
>> And forever?
>> Forever is officially 28 points to million.
However, 
>> What have we committed?
>> We budget all of it in reserves in case the purchases come forward.
We transfer it from reserves as counsel applies.
The entire meeting is available for land purposes.
At this microphone he tells you they've got significant projects in the works.
>> The Council approved a list of $120 million worth of projects.
There is one that we are working on right now in the next few months we are looking at bonding.
We will eat up this money and ask to borrow the purchase.
So anything that you take off from here you have to borrow.
>> That's forever correct?
Some of the special projects.
>> Internally we are looking at the sports complex.
We just hired a consultant to help us with that.
But also, we didn't have about 12 projects coming in the next cycle and some others that have been communicated to us by our partners.
The caveat of that is typically we will get a high number saying we are bringing projects and it is about half of that usually.
A couple of larger ones as well.
>> That's helpful to me.
Thank you for answering.
It changes my position knowing you got subprojects already in line.
>> Before you go on, does anybody else have a questionnaire?
No?
Okay go ahead.
There's only a few more slides.
One of the final topics is the recommended budget amounts.
You can see those amounts listed on the screen here.
The general fund and law enforcement fund.
>> On even knowing how this –.
[LAUGHTER] You can see the amounts listed here.
This is also the slide where it is going to take a minute. There are different laws besides rollback.
We have three funds this year that are subject to a vote requirement at their proposed rates that is higher than a majority and that is a two thirds note.
We will get to thirds vote on the law enforcement fund millage and the fire district if we were to be at a flat millage rate.
The rates that would be the maximum rate that can be passed with a simple majority are almost the law enforcement are just a hair over it.
.01 Difference.
Forever is the same thing.
It is 3.770.
Let me translate that.
If you want to go to a full rollback rate it will be a majority vote.
870 would be a majority vote.
You need a to thirds.
>> Officially under Florida statute anytime they don't rollback it is a tax increase.
There is a different millage rate the rollback rate and they are the increase in Florida average income, personal income the metric they use.
It is a metric of inflation.
This year it was 4.5%.
You take 4.51% and that is the maximum you can levy with a majority vote.
Based on history and the general fund we've had a history of coming down.
So when I'm limited by the 4.5% this year because of the history of going down.
You've had a fund that's been able to stay flat for a very long time.
I've shown these slides before.
This is the total budget operating revenue.
$1.4 Billion however 500 million is an appropriate statute.
We are required to estimate and carry forward all unspent money in the previous years and budget that is a revenue.
In your household that would be the equivalent of what did your beginning savings account start with.
>> And optic it's typical of the way you look at that.
To operate.
Another way of saying that is the new revenue budget as opposed to the 1.4 billion.
Then the equivalent to that as we also have to budget for what the ending checkbook balance would be.
The difference between the 500 million and 398 million is the use of reserves and capital projects.
You can also see the breakdown of the different expenditure categories you talk about: that appropriated fund balance and the total reserves and how it grosses up the budget and how you're basically budgeting –.
>> Now is the point where we are ready to take public participation.
>> Yes I have one Councilman Santiago.
>> Now you get to transition into public hearing and then we would vote on the items for the budget.
Is that correct?
Procedurally?
>> After the other further counsel discussion debate will take a vote on the millage rates.
If you think there's going to be a unanimous vote then we can take a single vote on all of the millage rates if we think there's going to be different rates, kind of think there might be a non-unanimous vote then we need to do them separately.
Then we set the budget and we scheduled the next.
>> Mr. chair, one more question I think doesn't pertain to the next technical steps.
Just for clarification, do any of the employees to George through us get any of our employees bonuses?
>> I believe there is a retention bonus program.
I don't speak out of turn.
>> The only bonuses that would be a retention bonus we've offered various times when we've had shortages.
I think in the EMS at one time I think there have been I think it's for law enforcement they received bonuses from the state for a retention line as well but that is coming from the state.
>> Employee wide bonuses.
Do any of our employees receive free healthcare?
>> I want to see if this counsel is okay with taking a vote.
I would like to make a motion.
One more question.
If we appeal the property appraisers budget, where does that go?
>> The statute goes to the administration commission we don't have – personally I don't have experience with that.
My understanding is it is not an appeal by right.
>> Let me take another question on that.
With any of the constitutional offices does it appeal to the governor?
>> There is unfortunately just not the same process for each is different.
>> And councilmembers, I move that we appeal the budget for the property appraisers based on requesting funding for a building that they don't have.
Additional money which is half $1 million that is not identified.
And providing bonuses to all employees and objecting to pain healthcare for all employees.
>> Okay we will take the motion and see if we get a second.
So we've only got five people in the public.
>> So we've got your motion and a second by Councilman Kent.
And Jake Johansson for a comment or question.
>> The question, comment on this particular item.
After collaboration and trying to keep our dirty laundry out of Tallahassee.
Is it worth our while to have a conversation? This is the tax collector, yeah?
>> Property appraiser, pardon me.
Are you willing to relook at this?
Before we ask for an appeal?
I don't know if that is something that can be done but that might be something he is willing to do.
Let me take that off the budget and let it fly as is.
>> I think that was worthy of comments based on what we did before.
I think what is slightly different here and part of my motive I hope you're all going to receive it is, it is a statement to the process that is broken.
Doing this is not necessarily a tax specifically on the property appraiser but it is an attack on the system.
By elevating it to that level it is going to go to the cabinet and put them in a position if they take it as the attorney said, what are we going to do about this broken process?
We all get blamed.
So there is a two part motive.
>> Think of your chair.
David, just to be clear, you can look at this and they're going to say well, over here.
Are we prepared to go down this road?
And do we have our ducks in a row?
Have we appealed to our constitutional officers before we hit the nuclear button?
>> Nobody likes getting blindsided.
>> The representative here, I think that lies part of the problem of the current structure which is almost like a rubber stamp which is what we've been doing with all of the constitutions.
Rubberstamping and taking the blame for tax increases or decreases.
As far as other constitutions I focused on this one because I did a little bit more research.
There are other constitutions but I think it would be argued as to why they may have done certain things.
Based on the current status of the workforce.
In the property appraiser's office I do know this.
There is no shortage of staff.
They are not having a recruiting problem.
There is no need to give bonuses like that.
Taxpayer money, just give it away.
If they were struggling the property appraiser saying I can't hire people.
We make a proposal based on that.
I got to make bonuses and do things.
That is not the problem.
Same thing with healthcare.
That is a great thing and I hate to argue for the family. Can the government really do that?
Pay the healthcare for everyone on taxpayer time?
I would bet that 95% of the people in our county don't get free healthcare for their entire family.
In today's world, this is the perfect time.
This is the perfect time to send that message to Tallahassee.
If you are serious about taxes and restructuring, look at this.
>> Let's hear from the public.
We have a new speaker tonight.
Keith Gesture.
>> Are we going to vote on this?
>> Every time we talk about taxes we forget the elephant in the room.
And that is, they are not paid equally and fairly.
I pay $1000 a year in property taxes. They are both married with homeowners in Volusia County.
And they pay three or four times what I paid.
There's a lot of people that pay nothing and a whole bunch that pay under 500.
They have to come work part-time jobs to do yardwork for people in order for them to pay their bills.
I heard one of the five representatives mentioned this morning.
I believe it was $34 per household.
I'm not sure if that's correct.
These little figures are often used when they push for echo, they said they would only be two or three dollars more per household and we always do this.
It's only so much more but that is not true figures.
Because over 40% will pay next to nothing when our young people who get hit with a full tax bill because they are just the beginning and life buying homes, they get hit the hardest.
We need to go to full rollback.
And we need to really think about what the future holds for the young people.
Aaron, who I respect greatly, mentioned on these fire houses they are paying a hell of a lot, they are getting killed, they are getting destroyed.
Essay kids are in their 30s.
They are doing yard work for me to pay their damn bills.
I am basically writing there back.
They are carrying my burdens.
They are carrying most of my burdens.
Let's be real when we talk about taxes.
It is not a fair and equal and balanced situation.
We need to go to a full rollback and we need to start discussing how we are taxing and how we are harming our young people. These two young people don't want your government-subsidized housing that you're forcing them to pay for.
They want to own a home.
They want to work hard and have what they own.
We are putting more and more on their backs.
Those are the people we need to consider.
Each year you have a room full of people coming in here.
A bunch of old people like me.
To pay next to no taxes and beg you to give more money away they want you to give money away that they know how to contribute to.
Let's think about that as we are talking about taxes.
>> Thank you for your comments David.
>> Thanks to the counsel for allowing me to appear today.
I'm one of the residents in the notorious Margaritaville.
I'm speaking on behalf of my neighbors but not officially.
But I would bet you they would all back me up here.
We are requesting that the Council hold the line and not increase our property taxes.
Again this year and I will get to that in a minute.
Many of the residents at Margaritaville as well as PGA international and the newer communities feel quite neglected.
Even though Margaritaville alone provides approximately $3 million to County taxes.
We have no parks.
No post office which you are not responsible for but you might help us with.
Which she definitely can help us with.
And that is even though we are paying that library tax we have to drive a great distance just to get to a librarian and most of all we have a terrible traffic problem where the bridge needs to be built, the road it needs to be widened.
LPGA needs to become an essential connection between I-95 and Highway 90 to 4 national Speedway Boulevard and not just for us residents.
This is an essential we can only rely on LPGA to do that.
We cannot wait five more years to get the money allocated. We need to look at this on a practical matter.
Millions of dollars in taxes.
Not just to you but to the city.
The gentleman before me said he's only paying a thousand.
My tax bill is $4 million this year.
And I am not a rich man.
Our property values have declined for the past years.
And taxes continue to increase.
We are asking the council to use the millage rate of 3.0464 instead of the proposed three point to 0.07.
We need your help.
And I thank you very much for allowing me to speak my mind and I hope it is sanctioned.
>> I am one of those old men that are happy my taxes are low.
When I was young, I took side jobs. When I taught school I had three side jobs because I wanted my house.
Right?
Young people don't have the money.
They start at the bottom like everybody else.
I could ask Troy if all of you end up buying with your first paycheck the four-bedroom three car garage, probably not.
You started small and you grew.
That's what happens with society.
When I was younger I was happy to pay, now that I'm on Social Security I really like the idea however, I don't like the idea that if I need to get to the hospital it will take me to ours because you haven't widened the road.
I'm not happy with the idea.
Waiting 59 minutes for the fire department to show up.
These things after consideration.
So I like the idea that you are holding a line on certain items and on others.
It was either everybody got hit or we robot came back.
And getting a 27% tax increase.
And a couple of questions.
The hundred $98 million in reserves do we really need $400 million in reserve?
Secondly, impact fees.
We were trying to do the sales tax and we had not raised impact fees for 12 or 14 years.
I hope it's been what?
Five years now?
We are raising the impact fees on a regular basis because I don't want to lose four or $5 million a year and lastly, I think they evaluate our homes if I'm not mistaken every three years.
We don't get these raises on a regular basis.
So, if my house gets evaluated this year, not next year.
So in three years I will have grace.
Of enough years before the taxes go up directly on raising some and not on others.
Thank you.
And you will be followed by.
>> Okay.
I was taking notes here.
Brian, I want to thank you for your presentation.
That was great.
I would say when we look up there I printed it out and I would just ask maybe, that is a lot of paper, a lot of ink but that is the story there.
That is very good, what you did for a proper budget, I don't understand it but I would ask that we have the reserve. Jake your opinion is appreciated.
I think it is good for the EMTs, it's good for all of us coffee. For your information I went up 60%.
So when they talk about a 50% raise, it's like wow, that is like a lot to me.
Over $16 it is crazy 16% up.
I think budgeting for the needs of people is important and it's people that can't afford it. Jeff said there are like 600,000 people in Volusia County. We've heard about you before.
Great job.
I know you're doing a great job.
And our future capital needs reserves that are good.
He said the options are $930,000 for three firemen and water sprinklers. I think that's what he said.
I'm not sure but that is the notes I took.
And I think that Volusia County is huge compared to Volusia County and I think appraisals are fun and important and I don't understand the numbers really behind my wheelhouse but the renovations of 1.4 million to renovate a building.
Out the guys are ready to take this and I agree with David Santiago.
You have to take this with Tallahassee in the state.
Ethic it's very important.
And I agree with Faraz's name he just spoke.
I agree with the last speaker.
I think especially the young people need help.
So I printed out, this is not a bill.
This is a proposed bill.
And I printed it out and I'm really interested.
This is my last year's tax value.
It's a lot of different and it's over a lot of money.
We are paying taxes.
It's just a lot.
I don't know how you are going to square up the office.
But I think the County general fund is greater on the robot rate.
It doesn't need to be 5.6% higher.
We should be called the safety fund.
It is greater than the rollback rates by 5.35%.
It is greater than the rollback rate 521%.
>> Thank you.
Thank you very much.
>> Lenny?
>> Lenny Wheeler followed by Jeremy followed by Josephine.
>> Good evening council members.
My name is Lenny Wheeler representing the EMTs and paramedics of Volusia County.
I'm here tonight to make sure the facts about EMS performance are clickable to you and the communicator that we serve.
Every day they respond to heart attacks, strokes, car crashes and more.
They are held to strict response time standards and standards that discounts will set.
Not national ones.
We are meeting them for 9/10 emergencies.
The other half arrived first.
Either way the community is getting timely care.
Let's be honest about the challenges.
Overcrowded hospitals for long stretches.
Waiting to hand off patients.
86% of EMS agencies reported – unlike fire rescues EMS doesn't have across the county.
Gas stations or hospital hallways.
It wears on the people.
Even so we still meet 95 and 90% of our standards.
Transfers are a major strain.
83% of transfers to our local hospital.
Lose the tie up for hours.
Even Miami can keep a crew out of service for half a shift.
These are the same that I expected to answer your next 911 call.
That is not sustainable.
To address the budget proposal for fire rescue 765,000 quick response vehicles.
EMS already runs Q RV in the county and not just in unincorporated areas.
That is a duplication of resources.
Fire rescue should be focused on the long-standing staffing issue.
Not trying to reinvent the service that EMS already provides effectively.
Let EMS do EMS.
This isn't about fighting with fire rescue, it is about accountability and facts.
EMS is meeting the standards you set.
Higher expectations and more scrutiny.
Any other county provided service.
Our people deserve to have that recognized.
Decisions based on facts and politics.
Thank you for your time and for supporting the men and women of Volusia County.
>> Thank you for your comments.
Jeremy.
>> I really wasn't prepared to say much this evening. I just wanted to be here with you guys. I really appreciate the Council people.
I appreciate all of you actually.
You guys have a pretty good job.
I feel a little bit attacked, my organization.
I'm not a fair monger.
We have never feared mongering.
And if PA does recommend for firefighters if we had the funds in the perceived elevations of reserves we can improve the level of service we get to for firefighters on the truck.
If you live in Port Orange yet for firefighters on the truck.
You Naga increased the level of service.
You guys set the level of service.
I live in a different county. I pay taxes and I have firefighters . If we have these reserves they are sitting on corners and trailers.
It's horrible.
But you can add the extra bay at a fire station and bring these guys into the house . I think we can increase the level of service we will go with what the community wants.
But you guys choose a level of service you want for the county.
I don't want to get into the debate of how long it takes.
>> Around a thousand seven or so, to a thousand eight my father became ill and he had been wanting me to work on my PhD and make sure that I can take care of myself and all that but when he became ill, I could just leave my parents like that.
So what I did was, I just stopped everything and took care of him.
We kept them at home and, for about 12 years or so he outlived his diagnosis.
When we first started they said he only had six months to take care of him and he lived 10 – 12 years more than that.
And so coming in at that time I just wanted to give myself to him and my mother.
He died in 2019.
And then it was just me and my mom.
And in 2021, make a long story short, my mom and I both contracted COVID and we were hospitalized together.
She did not make it out.
So the way the situation was was that I got the older house that they had. It is in quite a bit of disrepair.
I am on Social Security only.
The taxes for the house where we are is almost $6000.
I do not have this year's taxes.
I've been able to keep up with it, it's just not there.
I'm planning on some surgery soon that is needed.
And I heard the gentleman talk about some of the young people.
Well, I am a senior citizen.
I'm in my 70s.
And so, people like us need just a little bit of help too.
I'm just explaining what that situation is and, thank you for listening.
My concept is Bonnie Bronson if you want.
Anybody passed the offering plate but thank you.
>> Thank you for coming in.
>> That takes us back to the motion on the floor to repeal the property appraiser's budget motion by David Santiago.
Who made the second?
One more question for you, you probably said this would be the process for that.
The commission decides whether they are going to do something with it.
Then they are going to notify the administration commission which is that we still have to fund the budget.
Until – and if a decision gets made then we would change it.
It gets funded at the current rate at the Florida Department of Revenue.
>> Is there a deadline on that?
>> So with our current tentative rate it could be all the way to October 1. 
>> Okay.
Any other questions from counsel?
Comments?
All in favor of the motion then to repeal and send this to the commission, please say aye.
Any opposed?
7/0.
Okay.
Now, direct us.
He wants to –.
>> I think you alluded to this going through the slides.
I'm not sure we are going to all be in agreement across the board.
Of who is rollback and who is flat.
So we should probably take each one, each fund separately.
I think that would be best.
>> And for each one of these I will read what is required into the record.
>> Hold on one second.
>> And only to be a dead horse just additional numbers I had been able to get for the general public.
The vote was just to thank you for your support on that.
And that was approximately, when I calculated my numbers it was approximately three months.
Based on all the things we see with bonuses.
I think I was low on the healthcare side of it.
Another was questioned about the tax collector.
The number I recently received regarding what shortages we are getting this year compared to last year from the tax collector's office.
Basically they are taking money we would normally use for the general fund and it is to $0.5 million.
The reason I want to highlight that, we are at $5.5 million very conservatively but if you look at our general fund, the flat rate versus the rollback is 9 million.
So just in these two constitutions, more than half of what is being proposed, the difference between the millage rate and the flat in our budget, that's correct.
I just wanted to highlight how much of a difference I would make to the public's taxes but we have to vote on it because of the way the system is structured.
Thank you Mr. Chair.
>> So the first one is going to be general funds. Are you proposing to do the same thing we just did with the tax collector?
>> I think the problem with the tax collector is the law is different.
You could ask maybe for more guidance.
Remember you asked earlier, I don't recall the specifics.
>> The team has put together a letter of the constitutional officers in their budget, however, the tax collector.
There is no appeal process similar to the property appraiser in the statute.
If I had to guess perhaps why is that the tax collector has a copy of whatever the commissions are.
For us historically we would be getting a lot of access fees.
Your feeling hits every year when the access fees go down but there reaches a point where he has a cop whenever the commissions are.
Property appraisers are funded as an expense.
So there is no theory.
>> To expand on your point, the problem I have with that structure is it is just hidden and our budget.
The individual holding that office was to sustain the current process and the mixture of how much you give back to general revenue.
That continues to decline every year.
So the amount that we are getting every year is being chipped away from what was said on the campaign trail.
And I don't take that from many perspectives other than looking at the numbers.
>> All right.
So the process from here if there are no further questions would be to read into record each rate and after each rate a motion and a vote.
>> One second.
>> Just to speed up that process the Council felt so inclined.
Each of these individually or can we go through all of them minus the fire services and then come back and do that when individually?
>> If it's going to be the same boat.
>> Counsel, that's where I am.
I'm looking and seeing some heads shaking, yes.
>> I don't know where I'm from.
>> Individual then.
Let's go.
>> After reading the same one.
It's just the motion.
>> 25 – 26 operating rate for the general fund is to point to 007 Mills.
Which is greater than the rollback rate of 3.0464 Mills by 5.06%.
Motion to approve?
>> Second.
>> We have a motion to approve the millage rate of 3.07 for the general fund.
Second by vice chair Reinhart.
That's my rollback rate.
It's a flat rate.
>> This vote has to be unanimous, not unanimous but a majority vote unless – with the general fund, I will let you know, the general fund is just the majority.
>> You made the motion?
>> For the proposed millage rate of 3.007.
A 0% change from last year, it is a flat rate.
>> All right, Troy made that motion.
Who wants to second it?
You can go stay at the flat rate and general fund.
>> I will give it a second for discussion.
>> Okay second by Jake Johansson.
Okay.
Questions or comments?
>> I will make one comment.
>> I think I'm getting questions on either side of me that I would like to go for a full rollback.
We now have the numbers in front of us.
The ideas right now to do that.
But if we vote before this we can still reduce it in two weeks.
>> Makes it harder for you.
>> We would have to bring back how we would fund.
>> A $10 million and cups and services.
We've been talking about this now since the five-year forecast.
So I would just caution that a full rollback would be extremely difficult.
It would definitely need services.
>> I was reminded that the actual expense budget submitted for areas that the County manager controls in the general fund has already decreased in the face of all of the inflationary increases and benefit rate increases that are built into the fact, they have those expenses.
Especially corrections and in the face of all that the actual expense budget is already done.
You're talking about service-level reductions of some sort.
This millage rate is to fund the fact that we have revenue reductions as well as mandated expenses.
>> We are going to rollback and for other categories.
This is one like we've been saying all along.
We rolled back two years ago.
Which was fun.
>> The total budget of the general fund in addition is actually down even with the flat rate because of the other revenue reductions in the past, we've used up reserves.
The total budget is down.
But the fact is, the only point was even if we vote for the flat rates in AA can still be reduced and I want to say I'm disgusted but a little – we've known about this for months.
Months.
We've talked about all of the items that we are forced to pay that we sometimes don't want to pay.
A full year of sun rail.
God bless, we've got the beach parking thing but we are paying for a little more revenue that we expected to get that we did not get.
Among all those other things that Ryan pointed out during the five-year forecast and during the last time we chatted and earlier in the day.
I don't like flat rates.
I like rollback.
But we should have mentioned it a month ago.
Do months ago.
It is our responsibility to allow staff time to think about this stuff and the time to wake up is not September 4. The time to wake up was two months ago.
There are some things we didn't see before mainly the constitutional budgets but even their lack of revenues and the general fund tells about other items in the general fund that need it also means we are going to rollback whenever we can.
The forecast is not looking good.
We might be below rollback if property taxes go away.
So I'm not saying I like the general fund and flat rate and yes, we can go lower but I don't want to have a five hour argument about what to cut and what not to cut and come up with $500,000 worth of cuts so we feel good which will drop the millage rate about .0001 percent we should back us up if we want to have this conversation.
Having said that, procedurally I'm not happy but if we want to start cutting, we better tell them what to cut.
Come back with a 10% cut because you're not going to like it.
So, let's have that healthy conversation and talk about what we want to cut right now. A minute ago we were talking about going to rollback and funding trucks and other stuff.
Maybe that is even too much.
So, break out your stubby pencils and let's go through it tonight and get it over with if that is how we want to roll.
>> Ryan, do you have a number that shows if you added all these millage rates that we are going to go on, what it totals compared to last year?
>> The total tax revenues?
>> The millage cannot just simply add them up.
The municipal service district.
The fire rescue district those are the ones in the unincorporated area.
There are different tax rates for different properties.
>> I get what you are saying.
Not everybody would be subjected to it.
But, do we have that number?
>> You want us to just add these to columns?
>> Okay.
And while she does that, it is just a curiosity thing to me in general.
I'm going to dial back again to my colleagues going back to the constitution.
What part of the constitution's revenue, let's go to the others.
Can it be helped to offset the general fund?
>> You have five constitutions.
We talked about the property appraiser; the Sheriff's office budget is not in the general fund.
It's in the law enforcement fund with the portion by the municipal service district.
The supervisor of elections –.
>> I know we separated that a couple of years ago but in the past it used to be part of the general fund right?
Was not an administrative task behind the scenes?
Or does that mean because of the change, no money can be exchanged?
Greg I don't know if I follow what you're saying.
There was a process to do this but when the tax collector collects these bills he puts them in two separate deposits and receives different sets of money separately.
Before the change it was one tax rate.
One general fund.
>> Brown was going with that if it is still basically a check to the county which cannot help offset any general funds?
>> If you were to lower the law enforcement run fund rate to help increase the general fund.
>> Let's say if we found in the law enforcement fund half $1 million.
>> I believe so, continue with the others.
>> You are left with the clerk of the court which submits a budget under article 5 of the Constitution.
Under the Constitution technology and facilities to court and court related services for budget specifically for funding or obligations.
Now it's my turn.
Sorry.
Finding her IT budget, it is my significant budget I believe.
3 and a half million dollars.
The last one is the supervisor of elections.
As I increase.
>> There was an increase I believe of 300,000 for the court.
I would be remiss if I didn't mention the clerk of the court has been scaly conservative.
>> They are very tight right now because they are funded by recording fees.
And finally, it is the supervisor of elections.
Click supervisor of elections actually is a decrease this year last year was the presidential election year.
$8 Million this year 7.7.
Within that 7.8 the total line item is less.
But are there any special – I get it we are not having a presidential election year so are there any additional projects to request?
Do you have that detail?
Yet you are buying 100 new cars.
I'm being facetious but.
>> They submit line item details.
But if you are asking do they pay for health insurance I don't know where I'm going to go on this but I'm not liking it.
Not because of the work that staff did.
It's not a reflection on you.
The additional cost that we are really getting is because of the mandated cost we have to pay really if we look at it.
It's not from extra spending on County general fund levels.
Hats off to you there.
I want all of our constitutional officers to be partners with us and see the difficulty that we are putting this year.
I may vote for the – some of these flat villages.
But I don't know if I'm going to vote for it in the end.
I would like for us to, constitutionally, help out a little bit more hand to offset this 9.6 million.
>> The additional amount of revenue above rollback.
9.7.
That is where I'm at.
I'm willing to vote for the flags.
Partner with us.
Thank you Mr. J. 
>> Thanks chairman.
Again councilmember Johansen, I'm right there with you because staff starts working on a budget I would say October 2 for the following year.
And having conversations in March and April behind-the-scenes probably and we start publicly talking about it in May, June and July.
And, here we are on September 4. On the flat rate for a couple of minutes which is okay.
I'm going to tell you, in my opinion what's not okay, it's not my job to cut people out but I will tell you the two commissioners I work with will probably never meet again.
That is because they play games and call out their games.
That's because I've never played the game before.
They vote no on the same rate but it's considered a tax increase.
They vote no on that but yes on the budget.
So they want to spend every penny but they want to be able to tell the constituents I want to raise the taxes.
You're playing games.
I was the commissioner that at every meeting at the end of the meeting you didn't vote for the $10 million so another meeting passed and you voted for everything.
So I'm keeping a running record trying to find your €10 million not going to vote for.
So you can have your cake and eat it too.
Not with me sitting next to you.
And that's my point Jake.
It is, these conversations I believe should have happened before September 4. But if you are not comfortable with it, listen, I don't want to raise rates either.
So tell me the 10 million.
Where do you want it cut from?
You tell me and if I agree then we can go ahead and do that.
But, it will be a bother to meet which should not matter to you.
You have your own constituents but it will bother me if someone voted no on the rate but yes on the budget.
That is having your cake and eating it too.
If that's the case we should all do it, vote no on it and, you know, put the whole county in a pickle.
Thanks.
>> Thank you.
I understand the dilemma.
I agree with what you are trying to do.
I wish that we would hear more immediately what the Constitution was or are going to do.
I still think we have two weeks, one week to propose cuts.
And here is why I even think about it.
Usually every year we start this, we need to reduce the budget by 10% just to bring back rollback.
You did amazing things this year and our budget with all of the expenses away.
We haven't even mentioned Sunnyvale.
It's going to get worse.
Far worse than we expected.
And we will have some hard votes on it.
But, I think Danny mentioned, you can look at it two ways.
If the state goes to, I don't think they are just going to eliminate property taxes but I think they are going to start rolling it back.
This is not the time to shed money.
I'm kind of taking the opposite.
The state is going to do that if they think that we are not capable of reducing taxes and Monroe counties and I think we have a history right now, if you look at it, our trendline is down.
On millage rates.
Everybody that lives here still says taxes are too high.
But we are not ignoring that.
I think that we have to keep the pressure on where the state reduces property taxes to zero.
I want them to see we are doing everything we possibly can to be conservative.
I think few staff have done a good job.
That's a reason I would still entertain it.
>> Last year we had fewer.
It was rollback + real.
Written preparation if we were to be one of the counties or something like that.
I looked out and I pulled, more letters and orange county compared to property taxes five years ago when you do that comparison and look at the percentage increase of property tax revenues, we are in the bottom five increase in property taxes across the state of Florida and that is the result of some of the stuff we've done across the last five years.
The rates have come down.
We were at 6.1 mills in the general fund 10 years ago. You had law enforcement and the general fund together and you are at 4.9 roughly.
We haven't escaped scrutiny from the state.
But they are not worried about it.
>> We are not Gainesville.
>> We are not the targeted levers that other counties have got.
One of the things that makes me a little bit comfortable is the increase in taxes over the last five years. I believe it was lowest in the state.
And, like I said earlier, the staff has done a great job.
It is not my concern and Troy, your criticism is accurate.
If you're going to do that and have your cake and eat it too, that is fair criticism.
>> At least I wouldn't go down that path and do that.
But I think it is fair criticism and anybody that does.
And I don't think the $10 million is from the County from the general fund.
I know you said about cutting.
I think Jake mentioned cutting.
Maybe you should've done this two months ago but things have come to light.
At least with me buying renovation, money for a building you don't own.
Never was concerned with George and his team.
Never because if there is money on the table let's go after it.
Certainly law enforcement now has their own but the law enforcement officers have to answer to that.
It doesn't mean they can't partner with us and sharpen their pencil a little bit.
What I'm trying to say for today is I would be willing to vote with my vote for the proposed numbers with the intent to say to go back to our constitution even if we only get 5.5 million.
Let's just say that is half the amount of the increase versus the proposal so let's not not negotiate, make sure they feel our pain and understand the position we are and my change depending on that response in the next week.
That's what I'm saying, Mr. Chair.
>> You think we should do everything except for the fire fund.
>> We already have a motion on the floor just for general use.
>> What do you mean except the fire fund?
Now things have changed.
That's why.
I mean, I'm asking.
>> Have been somewhat uniform.
They may have a preamble of what is different with what the agency has collected over the past.
I think they have pretty standard things of what they're looking for.
>> I think a few months ago we had some other criteria.
I think the Florida Association of Counties has a website they put together.
>> What was asked before, if this is worth pulling back let's keep it inside and see if we can get it there.
But I'm afraid this sounds like I'm afraid if we go now and we can't get the appeal approved or they don't know, we are good.
Then we are stuck taking it out of our general fund and cutting services where if we stayed flat right now show us a little bit of love.
And Troy I think is something that I think is worth pointing out especially in the tax collector's office.
When we go back and talk to them about the request the councils have made, they no longer have authority to solely amend their budget.
They would actually have to submit that to the Florida Department of Revenue with an explanation.
>> Or the Department of Revenue would have to approve it.
I don't anticipate there would be an issue but there could always be.
>> So there are constitutional ones that have already been approved?
>> I doubt it very much.
The Florida Department of Revenue is going to say no to less taxes.
>> Chairman to help streamline this if possible at the secondary is okay with this, I will withdraw my motion because it was just for the one.
It sounds like we were in agreement, we could bundle them altogether and let you reach one and have one vote instead of nine and then come back for the fire services which will be the 10th.
Now I'm going to make a motion to approve all of the 2025/2026 millage rates minus fire services.
>> Question before you go there.
I know it's not in the motion but I want to make sure it's clear it sends direction for staff to go meet with all of the constitutions.
>> And that's the direction to staff with all of the constitutions and it currently has five of them at a flat rate and four of them at a rollback rate.
And the one fire service I left out of that.
>> According to the statute which is the rest of them fiscal year 25/26 millage rate for the countywide taxing authority of Volusia County law enforcement fund is 1.5994 mills which is greater than the rollback rate of 1.518 to mills by 5.35% fiscal year 2025/2026 operating millage rate library fund is the rollback rate of 0.3697 mills, the fiscal year 25/26 operating millage rate for the countywide taxing authority is zero point to 00 mills which is greater than the rollback rate of 0.1901 mills by 521%.
The fiscal year 2025, 26 operating millage rate for the countywide taxing authority is zero point to 00 mills which is greater than the rollback rate of 0.19, 0.1 mills by 5.1%.
The fiscal year 2025, 26 operating millage rate for taxing authority in the mosquito control fund is the rollback rate of 0.15 73 mills the fiscal year 2025, 26 operating millage rate for the taxing authority and port authority fund is the rollback rate of 0.0660 mills the fiscal year 2025, 26 for taxing authority miscible service district fund is 1.6956 mills which is greater than the rollback rate of 1.5996 mills by 6.00%.
The fiscal year 25/2026 operating millage rate for the taxing authorities within the district fund is the rollback rate of 0.0099 minutes.
>> Okay.
>> As fast as I could.
>> That's the motion.
It's been seconded.
Any other questions?
Any debate?
all in favor say aye. Any opposed?
That one is unanimous.
7/0.
>> I will need to do a calculation on the fly depending on where counsel goes. The resolution that is currently published would be at the flat millage rate. I can read that in the record if we want that.
3.84 to 1. 
>> And was the rollback?
>> Three points to 36?
Motion to approve the fire rescue district at the rate of 3.6 to 36 rollback.
>> The rollback on fire fund motion by Troy Kent and seconded by Jake Johansson.
The reading for the resolution will be revised to say the fiscal year 20 to 5, 26 operating millage rate for the taxing authority fire risk district fund is the rollback rate of 3.6 to mills.
Chris, do you want to call the role on this one?
>> REINHEART: No.
>> DANNY ROBINS: No.
>> DON DEMPSEY: Yes.
>> KENT: Yes.
>> JEFF BROWER: Yes.
>> The rollback rate is accepted for fire funds.
Like the next thing I will be seeking a motion for is the recommended budget.
The fiscal year 2025, 26 rep but recommended operating budget is 1,420,000,000 $74,183 and the known operating budget is 331 million $458,198.
>> $1,422,074,183 And a non-operating budget of 331 million.
>> A motion to approve the budget by Troy Kent, seconded by Jake Johansson.
Any questions?
Comments?
ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. Any opposed?
The budget passed 7/0.
We need to set a date and time and time for the next meeting.
>> What we have in the slide I would like to confirm is that the second public hearing will be held on Tuesday, September 16 at 5:01 PM in these chambers.
>> Motion to approve.
>> Is everybody good with that?
>> Second Johansson.
>> Motion to approve September.
>> September 16.
>> What do I say second?
>> ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. 
>> Any opposed?
The next hearing date will be Tuesday, September 16, 2025  at five.
>> That concludes my portion.
>> We are adjourned at 7:02 p.m.