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Testing testing test test test this testing.
This is a captioning test.
This is a captioning test.
[Music] [music]  [music] Survive oh moon moon will test The meeting will begin in two minutes. 


>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: I was going to say if everybody can find a seat we will get started in 60 seconds but everyone has found a seat so we will still get started in 60 seconds.
Okay.
Good afternoon.
Will call the September 16, 2025 Volusia County meeting to order at 40 DPM.
We will just let you know how the meeting will progress here.
We will start in just a moment with an invocation at which time I will ask you to stand if you care to and then we will follow that with the Pledge of Allegiance.
Once you stand you can just remain standing until after the pledge.
I would like to let everyone know that if you are a member of a faith group that would like to take part in the invocation you're welcome to do so.
Just send an email to kgreen@volusia.org.
The K green @Volusia.org.
She will get you all set up this morning.
It is my privilege to welcome to the podium Pastor Josh ON of the Spruce Creek Presbyterian Church.
Thank you.


>> Let's pray.
Almighty God our heavenly father.
From you, all authority in heaven and earth is named and derives its legitimacy and power and you have set your son Jesus Christ at your right hand given all nations and kingdoms of the earth as his inheritance.
Under him you have appointed the governing authorities to be your servants for good.
A terror to evil conduct and an approver of what is just and right.
We thank you for your liberty and peace we enjoy in your land here in Volusia County.
We acknowledge your grace and bless us beyond what we deserve.
And despite our unworthiness.
Father, we thank you for our county government and the many essential services provided for our common well-being.
May you have your good hand upon our sheriffs and fire departments to guide and protect them in the course of their duties.
And as we think about our law enforcement we are especially grieved at the news of officer David Jules, a cold blooded murder.
And we pray for his family, for the Edgewater community.
For his fellow officers that they would be comforted by your mercy and by seeing justice done by those who handle this case.
We thank you father for these councilmen and their families.
Forgiving them willing spirits to serve others and endowing them with strength and skill.
We thank you for the reliable stop that supports their work.
May grant them even for this day's business wisdom to do justice, to walk humbly with you and under their good counsel may you lead us as a county in your everlasting ways that we may flourish under righteous governance.
Father as we mourn the vicious assassination of Charlie Kirk may we also be emboldened by his example to speak the truth in love.
May we never hide our light but having covered the cost may we build a fight of faith increase our love for our neighbors especially remembering the orphan and the widow.
And may that love be evident this afternoon and how we conduct our business together.
For Christ Jesus I pray amen.
[Pledge Of Allegiance] Will you call the role please?


>> Mr. Robbins?
Mr. Santiago?


>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Here.


>> DANNY ROBINS: Here.


>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Here.


>> DON DEMPSEY: Here.


>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: We have a full quorum.
We will start the meeting as we always do with public participation.
When I call your name, please come up to the podium.
On the right-hand side or the left-hand side you will see a button where the podium can go up and down to match her height.
Please make sure there is a microphone so we can hear you and it can be recorded and you can have three minutes to speak on anything that pertains to Volusia County.
Something we might be able to act on in the future.
And I would just ask you.
Especially this week.
That you would keep your speech respectful of all those around us.
First we have John Nicholson but also as John comes up you not to give your full address for purposes of safety but please let us know what city or area or county you live in so the representative up here is aware of it.


>> A couple of things, one, the library windows have been replaced because of the storm.
It's been a little over a year.
You had to wait like six months to get the windows after they started.
So it has been kind of discombobulated for a year.
I just talked to them.
It will be another several months next year before Windows . I don't understand why it is going to take eight months.
Now that we have the windows to put them in.
The windows are in and they are not there.
So I'm going to show up and finish it.
Secondly, drivers Ed, we are giving money to the school board. We just had this a couple of months ago for police officers.
Riley gives money to the school board.
It is their responsibility to do band, football and driver's ed.
It is the county doing it.
One of those questions is where we can save money.
Which brings me to a point.
I don't know how many of you read the paper for Sunday.
It is a project that you gave $1.8 million to.
The Daytona Beach put $1.8 million into this.
There is almost 30 million bucks into this troublesome location.
I was just talking to somebody outside so the cops are out there constantly.
They're like 1500 reports for the police.
It is just a horrible location.
It's right in the middle of our expansion.
Margaritaville, Mosaic.
All of our west side.
It's huge.
30,000 people have not moved into the area and we move this mess into the middle of it.
A couple of months ago I asked that you look at this.
They came before the city commission and said there was a problem.
Since you contributed so much money and you are doing affordable housing anyway, find out what went wrong.
Find out if this is what you want.
Did you want and did you give $1.8 million so the people could live free of charge and apartments.
It doesn't pay a dime.
Another woman $130 a month.
$97,000 A year.
Why is he subsidized?
30% of your income is too much for this man.
You can easily afford $1500 a month at 30% or less.
So are we subsidizing people who don't need to be subsidized?
If we are talking about middle income, poverty is not middle income.


>> David Hill.


>> Hello, Dave Mill, I live on Miller Road and I'm here to talk about the flooding a mile away.
The water level is higher now than where it was last year at this time.
The Florida Department of Transportation retention pond on Miller Road has water on the spillway leading into Miller Lake.
It is one hurricane away from flooding Miller Road.
Why is this happening?
All of this started and 2017, 2018 one Royal Oaks put their same water management permit system and that opened the door.
It was like a gateway for multiple bad decisions east to 1790 too.
Royal Oaks professional center parking lot was built like that.
It was built on a lake.
Everyone had to think Larry was building a building on a lake?
Texas Roadhouse was built on a lake as well as Wells Fargo Bank.
Multiple St. John's water management systems flow into Lake Wawa.
All of this water displaced in Lake Wawa and water routed will eventually flow through Royal Oaks and into Miller Lake.
As soon as Royal Oaks completed their permitted system in 2017 and 2018 the flooding of my property started.
I used to be 400 feet away from Miller pond which is now Miller Lake.
Volusia County retention ponds haven't been dried since 2017/2018.
They are now part of Miller Lake.
A solution exists to solve this problem of flooding.
As for Royal Oaks, a thousand 17 St. John's water management permitted systems under Chapter 373 of the Florida statutes, the permit allows it.
It actually says that these things happen.
It can be revoked and I don't understand your reluctance just to sit and do nothing.
You are here to protect the citizens.
This is costing you more than it's costing us so, why don't you pursue that and do it?
The Royal Oak system was altered and modified knowing these alterations would cause flooding to Miller Lake.
Three additional sources of water discharge were added; the technical staff report of the 2017 St. John's water management permit states the project is not anticipated to cause any adverse impacts to the historic flood elevation to Miller Lake.
This permit has caused major adverse impacts.
The county gave no letter of discharge asking you to send that letter and start the process of the ramification for the 2017 permit.


>> Thank you.
Peggy Hill?


>> Good afternoon my name is Peggy Hill.
I live on Miller Road.
Miller pond is still a lake and still overfull.
It is higher than prior to hurricane Milton.
There is still water in my front yard when it used to be acres away from Miller pond.
We've been fortunate this season so far but it will flood if there is a hurricane.
The only solution stated by the County so far is, if it happens again the response will be the same.
This is not a solution.
It should never happen again.
It should never have happened at all.
People should never have been cut off from emergency help from work and school for four weeks.
The solution is simple.
Stop the draining through pipes into Miller pond.
St. Joseph water management District would like to help but they need to hear from Volusia County.
Please direct them to revoke the permit given to Royal Oaks.
We gave them a letter of no objection and you can ask for it to be revoked.
The St. John's River water management District permit for Crowne Plaza which is for Publix in Orange city is advancing forward in spite of public objections.
Has the County objected yet to the bypassing of the Plaza retention pond which allows the dirty stormwater to be drained through pipes behind Wawa and then to Miller pond.
It is on my property and County property.
You can and should object to this permit.
During today's meeting you have a few flood related items.
Please know the large amount of funding you're putting towards Miller Lake does nothing to help Miller pond.
Also there are some items for study Miller pond is not mentioned.
Miller pond needs solutions today and you can do something today.
Direct staff to revoke the permit then directly pumping to be restarted to get the water leveling lowered while the solution is accomplished.
Thank you for your time.


>> Thank you for your comments.
Melissa.
You will tell me what your last name really is.


>> My name is Borg Hurst just how it is spelled.
I want to remind you of that because I was an English teacher.
I am here from the Northwest Democratic club.
I'm here to introduce myself. I'm here at least once a month just to observe.
And that's all I have to say today.
Thank you very much.


>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.
Nancy Miller.
Mayor of Daytona Beach Shores.


>> I'm not here for that but I will tell you about that.
I want to start off by saying my heart is so heavy after learning about the shooting of David Jewell Edgewater police officer.
There are no words to ease the pain of loss but let's dance together now.
Officers, family, citizens to support one another and never forget the sacrifices of those who protect us.
To the Jewell family, the Edgewater PD.
All who serve, you are in my prayers.
But good afternoon chair, Vice chair and members of the Council.
I am Nancy Miller, Mayor of Daytona Beach Shores.
I'm not here today representing Daytona Beach Shores but hit today representing as the cochair of the stormwater mitigation and flooding committee.
I cochaired this committee with Volusia County at-large strength Johansson.
Chair, I understand you're planning to schedule a meeting in Port Orange to speak directly with the residents about flooding concerns.
I am so pleased to hear of your commitment to addressing these issues and that you recognize the importance of us bringing partners together.
Such as St. John River water management District and left out.
After all, it does take a village.
What you may not be fully aware of is our subcommittee on stormwater management and flooding. Artie has been working extensively on these same concerns and has had multiple meanings with representatives of the American flood coalition.
Volusia County Public Works.
Volusia County emergency management and representatives of transform 386.
We have representatives from the majority of the 16 cities and municipalities in Volusia County.
Our mission has to bring the stakeholders together and exactly the kind of collaboration that you are describing with the goal of developing solutions that will truly benefit our communities.
Our community has been meeting for the past six months in order to support your efforts. I brought with me the agenda subcommittee along with the meetings so you can see the significant work underway.
I hope you will consider reviewing them and joining us at one of our upcoming meetings.
You mentioned Port Orange and I think it is important to note that both the Port Orange assistant city manager and Public Works engineer have been present at each of our sessions so ensuring that the city's perspective is consistently representative so I hope by sharing this with you today we can avoid duplicate efforts and instead build momentum together.
The invitation is always open for you to attend our meetings and you would be a welcome addition to this dialogue and I believe this cooperative approach will strengthen the outcomes for all of our residents.
Thank you this evening.


>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: I do appreciate your invitation.
That is a change since I was told I could not come.
Okay.
Cindy Harris.


>> Good evening gentlemen.
I'm here this evening to execute my First Amendment right and to address my grievances with my government.
Especially after the events of these past few weeks.
Last night execution of the Edgewater law enforcement officer and just this afternoon there was a report of a woman being dragged down Mission Road and Newsom are in a
Beach.
Not to be misquoted or twisted in any manner like you did with chair Brower on that day.
I've attached the definition of the word tyranny.
From the second college edition Webster New World  dictionary of the American language copyright 1976 edition.
The dictionary says number one, the office authority, governments or jurisdiction of a tyrant or absolute ruler.
Number too, oppressive or unjust government number three, very cruel and unjust use of power or authority.
Harshness, rigor, severity.
Number five, a tyrannical act.
Mr. Dempsey.
We are not a mob.
We are your constituents.
You do not represent a minority, you represent we, the people.
Mr. Santiago.
We are not the redshirt people.
We are your constituents, we are not Brower followers.
We are the people.
And you represent us.
Mr. Robbins, many of us that day, we are your constituents.
You failed to represent us.
Mr. Johansen, our voices do matter and you represent us.
We are the people.
Gentlemen, this is my grievance.
You failed to represent us.
From behind the dais.
September 4 was an awakening for Volusia County voters.
August 18, 2026 your feet shall be decided or we will vote you out.
Have a nice evening.


>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Tony Russell.
Is it Tom?
Tom Russell.
Sorry.


>> Okay my name is Tom Russell.
603 North Beach Street in Daytona Beach I came here concerning a CRA.
I don't know how many are in the county.
I know there are five and Daytona Beach.
And I happen to have been involved in it maybe five years ago for various reasons I just passed out this budget.
The CRA I'm concerned about because it is a rundown area.
It was about a month ago or two months ago.
Probably only had a sidewalk installation for bike riding.
About a month ago they started doing some things.
They were fixing up a park at the end and they were fixing the bicycle park so they could drive it.
However, the big thing.
And I got a copy for everybody to look at.
The amount the CR gets.
To hundred and 83,000.
It is a lot of money.
To hundred and 83,000.
Better part of and a half million dollars over the last five years.
The payroll budget, payroll and ancillary expenses with payroll.
Two hundred and 23,000.
Okay?
What can be done to correct it?
You are the Council.
You are not the ones that set it up.
But certainly there must be some guidelines of somebody being held accountable for what the money is spent on.
How can you spend a hundred thousand dollars on a $300,000 thing and you really don't do much of anything.
I know what's going on.
And everybody here knows what's going on and the city Council knows what is going on and everybody looks the other way.
That's number one.
Root canal, does everyone know what root canal is?
It's a piece of property that got landlocked for the intracoastal waterway.
Probably 7500 years ago.
I got a copy of it up there.
It is blocked between – and Main Street.


>> Can you leave that with the clerk over here?
Thank you very much.
Jake?
I saw you here.
There you are.
Good afternoon.
Back here with you again.
Speaking for my mom who lives in district 1 Taylor Road on the topic of flood mitigation.
It's been about 11 months since hurricane Milton.
Just wanted to remind the Council there are citizens who are still concerned.
It has been pretty quiet in the tropics luckily for us but we watch them nervously.
I think there are two impossible ones or ways that are a possible watch by letter and HC.
We are asking for continued maintenance and for us not to be forgotten.
There is some flood infrastructure or a property and it stores water in the soil.
And is about 18 inches below the grade which is a sign that there has been a lot of rainfall again this summer.
So we asked the county to roll out the bathroom trucks.
We have been waiting for the county to come maintain the swales which are in between our properties.
Our property and the ones behind us.
I do not believe anyone has come out.
I wanted to ask the staff to try to take care of that problem.
Floods are a low-frequency but very high impact event.
So I just wanted to speak on that.
Thank you.


>> Thank you.
Welcome back to the U.S. 


>> I just wanted to say hello. I missed all of you greatly and I know you've missed me.
I had to go out of the country to get treatment because nowhere in the U.S. can they give me the treatment I need.
When I was over there might the treatment they realized I was much worth worse so I had to spend another $20,000 and hope it will help me or by me some more time.
I have all of the documentation if you don't believe me or if you would like to see it.
Also some testing that I have of people injured by the vaccine that are injured just like me and fighting for their lives.
I am documented.
Not only producing spikes with my antibodies but I am documented that I am producing it in other areas as well.
There is no turn off switch.
I do have this information.
When I've been on Governor DeSantis roundtable speaking to – and of course will be making a parent's in the next couple of weeks.
What I'm trying to tell you is that it doesn't matter what I do.
I know that you look at me and think boy, I'd rather play with my phone or computer to waste your valuable time for three minutes but after I get done all I get is a thank you.
The problem is, there is no cure for me and my county does not care.
It doesn't matter if I go to a city commissioner or speak in a legislation delegation meeting.
All I get is thank you.
And no one does a damn thing for me.
There is – I have spent all of my money and now I am homeless.
Are there any vouchers?
No, there are no vouchers and the state of Florida and Volusia County haven't been there since 2024.
So what happened to 25?
Why aren't there places for people like me or others who are in hard places that need to live and have shelter?
Or have a set safe place to heal.
Where is this money?
Is there any money that's going to come up?
I call my federal senators and everyone else.
I don't get anything.
They want to go toward the conversation.
Basically I want to commend you because you know what, you are right, we pay our salaries and someone should be giving us an answer instead of telling us thank you, I don't know.
So I have a problem, a huge problem with my government.
No trust in my government, no city, no County.
Each one of you looks at me and not one of you communicates with me.
I'm going to continue to speak out until I have no breath left and I am writing a book and a few other things to let everyone know what's going on.
But if you would like to see my records and have any questions you can look up my name.
I am speaking out all over the place and I am disgusted that there is nothing in regards to helping people in their lives because they are dying.
What is going to be done for us because I am here looking at all of you and we all deserve an answer.
There is more than just meat injured by the COVID 19 vaccine.


>> And that concludes the public participation part of our meeting.
This takes us to item 1. Approval of the agenda can I get a motion to approve the agenda as amended?
Motion to approve by Councilman Robbins.
Second by vice chair Reinhart.
All in favor say aye.
Any opposed?
The agenda is approved 7/0.
That brings us to the consent agenda.
Are there any items that counsel would like to hold for a vote?


>> I would like to pull A for a vote in discussion and Y and G for discussion.
A motion to approve the consent agenda absent A. 


>> Nobody had any items they wanted to pull or discuss?
Mr. Kent made the motion to approve as stated.
Okay.
All in favor?
Any opposed?
The consent agenda is approved.
Short of item A. I would like to find out of this almost million-dollar expenditure and the tax collector's office for interior renovation give me in the Council a summary of what needs to be done there.
What is it for and is it mission-critical?


>> Good evening Council members and staff.
This item we've been planning for a couple of years now.
We did put it in the capital improvement budget tax collector at some additional service counters as well as we are also adding a waiting area to get people out of the atrium and into a conditioned space there is a pretty substantial amount of work that is going into this.
They did request it.
We spent some time with the engineering and architectural firm to discuss various options to approve that and we feel like we've got a good plan.
Need a hundred and $25,000 that just got the PowerPoint pulled up.
Providing new testing areas as well for him.
There are five additional service counters and approximately 30 folks inside the building.
We also have additional service counters for checking in as well.
You can see the timeline here is the process we  went through completed back in 24 so we ran conceptual designs before he did the actual design and construction services task assignment which was to hundred and 25,000.
We put it out to bid.
We had several bids ranging from 1.7 million down to 935,000.


>> I will use the terminology for the interior seating area right there.


>> I could not tell you the count off the top of my head.
Just how many chairs if you've been in there the way it's currently set up you basically have chairs set up against the wall.
So.
No estimate?
How many chairs are we adding?
25.
It just seems like an awful lot of money.
Million dollars to get some additional waiting.
That's where I'm at.
Thank you Mr. Chair.
I think it is more than just the seating.
Especially when it is busier.
But also like I said here in the very first slide you are talking about increased service counters.
New testing area.


>> There comes CDL license testing.
They've gotten an area in which our folks can sit down and do their own.
We didn't have that previously.


>> And when it talks about improved access.


>> Now if you can see on the south side there we can go all the way around.
There is easier access.
There are no public restrooms in the area.
You are not going to go outside and around.


>> And the storage area is increased.
So they store their tags on site and that takes a significance as well.


>> What do they call those?


>> Thank you.
You answered my question.


>> The county ran this for years.
And they ran too officially.
It worked.
It may not have been perfect and pretty and comfortable for everything but aren't we to budget to make everyone feel comfortable?
Right?
Adding 20 seats is not worth $1 million for me.
I'm being mission-critical.
I ask for that word.
Is it mission-critical to spend a million dollars today?
And again I just reverted back to how we ran it well as a County Counsel.
As an internally run operation.
Just because we have the money we shouldn't just spend it.
I just don't see the value in it in today's tight budget framework.
I'm not going to support it.
I will give it back to the taxpayers.


>> I appreciate it, I think you are the chairman.
Councilman Santiago, one of the things I admire about you is your consistency with processes and even you know I think since you've been sitting up here, is your attention to detail especially when it comes to taxpayer money.
I appreciate that.
And I'm looking out in the audience.
We have our supervisor of elections here.
And she came before us and we spent a lot of money getting her set up the right way and I think we made a very smart move in purchasing that Plaza because in X number of years that will start making money for the County residents.
I cannot help but notice, I was sitting here going, what is the difference?
What is the difference?
In the difference our supervisor showed up, she came here before us, filled out a card and pleaded her case.
And I don't mean plead her case but she was totally vulnerable and transparent and said this is where I currently am.
This is why it is not working.
This is the plan I would like to have but I need you all to sign off on X amount of dollars to do it.
Was it 7/0?
She is shaking her head yes for those listening online.
And we approve of that.
I applaud you Councilman for in my mind what I think is right today and tomorrow what's wrong is wrong, you are being consistent.
I'm going to vote for this because it is more than just the chairs and I've been there to pay my tax bill and sign my son's car over to him and different things and I think it can use an upgrade that's what I'm going to support it.
Like some great points made over here on the left side I do believe for you to ask the constitutional officers in the future will obviously forgo anxiety appear if you don't come up and tell us what you are doing it might not be worth but I've been in there as well I know $1 million is a lot of money.
No doubt.
But it seems like what somebody can do in the private sector for 500,000 because of all of the stuff we have to go through to get it through. What is the question?
The question is what is your level of service here?
Do we put people out in 90° weather?
100° weather in the middle of the summer?
Or did we get as many of them inside that we can and provide them a safe space to take a test that is probably one of the most important in their lives as far as they are concerned and at that place and time I'm not happy with the money but I do like a decent level of service where we are not leaving people out in the heat we already treat them with numbers.
We already called them by number when they walked in the door I think.
At this point a little bit of help getting them inside to the best of our ability will be good.


>> MATT REINHART: One more thing.
I think I agree with you too.
It is a lot of money.
They want the lowest figure.
Number one, I guess I looked at it as efficiency.
Granted, we as a counsel under the Department of revenue did have a job before you write.
Then amendment 10 came around and things changed.
Now we have a tax collector.
I do agree with the fact that when certain entities come here and ask for funds they need to be present.
I totally agree.
She is here.
When Halifax had an issue, Halifax was here.
They are here.
Even the private sector.
They are here.
I will say that when I go back to the efficiency or populations increased we have a lot more people that are on the roads.
We talked about it every day.
They are driving.
There are a lot more people living here.
We don't want to get into that.
There are a lot more people here and a lot more people applying for tax year.
Being out in the elements of nature.
But also the rain events.
The weather itself.
But I agree with you.
With respect to money, I totally get that.
In favor of this only for the mere fact of efficiency and the fact that our population is – thank you chair.


>> DANNY ROBINS: Sorry.
I'm not going to exhort a lot of capital on this.
Little pun intended.
You said efficiency.
That's why I press the button.
Efficiency since you mentioned the word efficiency means that you open up the private tag agencies and allow them to do work in the county.
The tax collector closed the private tag agencies that people used to go in and quickly got their tag and left.
I closed it.
Guess what it costs the taxpayers?
Zero.
It was private.
But it was efficient.
And people went to them because they've got fast, efficient, quick good service.
It's about efficiency for our citizens, you open the backup.
People are coming here more because they don't get that service anymore.
Now he's asking for $1 million of additional taxpayers money.
But he also probably doesn't know what the private tag agencies are doing now they found a slight workaround but it is a delay for the taxpayers.
What he does is the private companies run the tags through Seminole County or one of the other counties they have agreements with and guess what happened to that revenue?
It stays in that county.
So, people here are paying the same fees and it's going to another county.
I didn't want to have to go there.
Since it is about efficiency and since it was exposed after you expose it completely.
But taxpayers are paying the same fees and the private agencies going to other counties and shutting them down from the access that they have here means they have to come here so it's costing the taxpayer money.
So he created the problem.
That's why I don't like it.
And it was working before.
And it is in million dollars.
I'm not going to spend it.
In another piece I think that was said that we have amendment 10 and constitutional officers for the tax collector's office but the law says we still have to approve this.
Five to vote for it, I earned my vote and my vote is no on this additional million dollars because there's better ways to create efficiencies in Volusia County I will get through this and sleep well tonight.
Thank you very much.


>> JAKE JOHANSSON: A quick discussion with David here.
The private tags, vendors.
We don't pay a premium to get that efficient service.
25, 30 bucks.
But that is because we want to.


>> It's like to – three dollars but yes.
I remember writing a check for a little bit more than to – three bucks.
But anyhow if you go in and spend money for your time if that gets out and we spend this million bucks all we are doing is spending that three dollars we are taxing everybody for this.
I'm trying to get to your size here.
When we go out à la carte and private by doing this and getting rid of the vendors which I forgot about we are forcing them – everybody to pay for this whether you want to or not.
So I'm kind of back to being torn on this.
And maybe we just punch until we hit a little bit more from the tax collector.


>> Jake, before you go define what you mean by punch.
I think I'm thinking the same thing.


>> Let's just table until Roberts can come in and give us a laydown of what's going on.


>> Again, I don't have a problem with that.
My intent is not to be adversarial to our elected tax collector.
We are in different times now and we largely take the blame for everything that happens across many levels including the taxes that are assessed by many different agencies including flood issues that have been in cities we get often blamed for.
We have to be more responsive in the accountability and engagement with anyone that we have to vote for anything for.
So, Mr. Chair, if there is consensus, I moved to table consent agenda item A. Let's say, for one month.


>> Table item A to the second meeting in October.
There is a second by Councilman Kent.
Does it hold up the budget in any way?


>> We will roll the money onto next year.


>> We will get a vote on this.
One more question for you on that.
Was there any guarantee?
Is there any guarantee how long he would stay in that building?


>> Downstairs, the renovated area, he has no intention right now looking for another space.
I think at one time he was actually looking at a combination looking at Lisa and we did something different with Lisa and he decided to expand.


>> How much longer do we have because I know they are taking up office space downstairs too.


>> They moved out already.


>> They are already out.
That is part of this renovation because we took that space for 386.
386 is over next door to Lisa.


>> That space they had downstairs is vacant now?


>> It is part of the tax collector.


>> All in favor of tabling this into the second meeting of October please say aye.
Any opposed?


>> G was the driving program correct.
I just wanted to respond that it is largely a state-funded program where we just administer funds that come from the state.
I just did it for that purpose.


>> I lit up.
Just so I can add to that.


>> Thank you Chairman.
I appreciate it.
I just wanted to add because Mr. Nicholson I respect you and I think you bring good comments and questions and I wanted to elaborate a little more and say yes, that money does stay down from that state and our staff after this Council directed them said hey, reach out to any and all private schools and they've done that.
Who came back was the public schools.
They have the cars and it makes sense to pass it through to them.


>> Thank you.


>> I know we voted on this already but I just wanted to for counsel's purpose and direction to staff and legal team if you all, unless the Council objects look into that new law that was recently passed regarding mobility plans and I want us to get in possible proper posture to make sure the county's interests are protected for future possible engagement in the law.
I know there are lobbyists going around trying to get cities to not necessarily work on our behalf so I just wanted to put on the record.


>> Right now think we have agreements with all of the cities when they sign it just part of the consent today I just wanted to make sure I 100% confidence in you but if we have to make any changes to the way that we make some of our plans some of the position early if that's possible I'm not saying we have to do that but if we put a little bit more focus on it thank you.
That takes us to item three, the ordinance on shipping containers.
Let me just point out that 501 you will have to stop.
I don't know if you wanted to look at the agenda for maybe an item that might be quicker and then come back to this if you want to start and stop this in the middle.


>> That's three minutes.
Okay, letter of agreement with the agency healthcare Medicaid and management care.
House management care.
Item 4. Let's try that.


>> Good evening counsel.
This will be the third year that we participated in this program.
Basically the hospitals pay a special assessment only levied on hospitals that then turn around and send that money up to the state.
We already have the authority to do the levy from back in June when I came forward with that.
So unless you have any questions we moved to approve.


>> Have a motion to approve seconded by Jake Johansson.
Any questions for staff?
All in favor say aye.
Any opposed?
It passes seven – zero.
And we can take a – just a couple minutes – five minute break?
You think that can go that quick?
Item 5. Publicly owned and operated medical transportation, Medicaid managed care supplemental payment program.


>> They do go together.
This item is very similar to the previous item.
The difference is the actual service being provided by UMS.
We contribute about $3 million to the state but then marries that up with federal dollars about a 60/40 ratio.
The net revenue you see officially has an entire 6.8 million so this revenue stream has been part of how we've been able to balance the EMS fund.
The five-year forecast.
It is part of how we were able to reduce.
This program is how that is happening.


>> Motion to approve by Jake Johansson.
Seconded by vice chair Reinhart.
Any questions for staff?
Any comments?
All in favor say aye.
Any opposed?
It was approved 7/0.
We have two minutes.
Item 6, lip.
Operation to participate in the low income this is the third Medicaid supplement.
This one is for SMA.
If you recall, the Council has approved the funding for this year.
This would be for next year included in the budget.
By using this program.
Which means we don't have to contribute more dollars.
That federal peace.


>> Vice chair Reinhart you were going to make the motion.


>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Motion approved by Johansson and seconded by Reinhart.
Any questions for staff?
All in favor say aye.
Any opposed?
Item 6 is approved 7/0.
It is now 5:01 PM.
So we will move to item 9 as required by law for the second and final hearing to adopt the proposed millage rates and proposed budget for fiscal year 2010 at five.


>> Good evening counsel.
The purpose of today's item is required by Florida statutes.
The second of two trim hearings.
This is also an opportunity for the public to speak and ask questions.
This was advertised pursuant to statutory requirements on Sunday in the news Journal.
As well as to adopt the final budget for 25/26.
On the screen we have the millage rate comparison.
It is very similar to the one we showed you the last time.
It is now shown as a tentative rate based on the prior Council meetings. Now we have five funds that are not robotic; we will go over the funds at a flat millage rate.
The ad valorem tax revenue proposed three points to 007 138,350 to.
The rollback amount at 3.0464 Mills would be about 9,744,000 757 $27 more.
That additional revenue is dedicated to some things there.
I'm not going to read those things because I'm going to cover them in more detail on the subsequent slide.
Starting with some of the notes.
Some of the stuff that we've been through with the general fund.
Some of this is stuff that we discussed during the five-year forecast.
But the general fund this year, what are we dealing with?
We are dealing with a $5.3 million reduction. There are two programs.
The state revenue sharing program and there is the state shared sales tax.
As we know Volusia County does not levy a sales tax.
But part of the state 6% by statute is shared with every county in the state.
Between those two programs by $5.3 million.
To the fiscal year 26 proposed budget.
An estimated $1.8 million reduction in constitutional offices primarily as the tax collector.
The amount is being offset and we are estimating as well as a little bit I will note with all of the constitutional offices.
Based on the historical use for their funds the tax collector probably makes the most intuitive sense because he collects but in these other offices she doesn't spend her entire budget.
Some things that can happen in her office, some other contingencies that can occur.
And we know that so we budget for that budget to come back to us.
Historically we account for that.
It is basically the constitutional office version of $5 million that we have contained a member for my previous presentations that we anticipate, $5 million in savings so while we may budget for a certain contract to go in place maybe we put that out to bid maybe we get a grant.
We have two ways of counting for that.
Knowing that there will be – that $5 million of savings is part of your general fund budget.
The constitutional office excess fees is similar to that.
We continue a transfer from the solid waste fund to provide current revenue of gross proceeds from the solid waste every year to keep property taxes low.
This budget also includes the use of $3.7 million prior year reserves for capital projects.
In addition the $10.9 million of time transfers.
Those are the closeouts of some of the interest that was earned and some projects that are complete from the COVID transition funds and I won't go into details about how those transitions were created unless you want to know someone's time and money to help with this budget.
External expenses have grown by $1.4 million due to increases from the Department of Justice.
We have to contribute 50% of the state budget.
That is increasing.
This year.
State Medicaid contributions every year.
It is actually somewhat similar: we have to contribute the state share to be the state share as opposed to sitting in the state share.
We don't get any money back from these.
We do allocate part of that to the hospital authorities actually on this agenda later than the previous item but we move the budget up to 501.
That is taking on the full cost of the station and the patients are also up as well.
Beach management transfer increase of $6.3 million primarily by budgetary variance.
They require additional general fund support.
What do I mean by that?
Last year we changed how we fund the beach.
We also changed the beach past.
That model has collected more revenue than it did before. There was a significant shortfall between to be clear there is still more revenue than last year.
That expectation was driven off of consultant provided numbers which did not hit the target and we've noted the general decrease to the beach.
County Department submitted a net decrease.
I said this many times.
Despite the foregoing million dollars of increases.
Which included 4% wage increases mandated by the Florida retirement system.
In addition to the reduced budget – I talked about the $5 million.
Major transfer reductions.
We are able to reduce that transfer from the general fund.
Lasting $1 million because of our implementation.
Due to efficiencies with the grant funding that we do have they decreased that by nearly half $1 million.
Tooth to the increased performance of the investment portfolio as well as the incubator changes were able to decrease the subsidy other operational savings I won't read each one of them specifically so, here is a summary for the next five years.
I talked about a lot of these items.
The current ad valorem taxes.
All other recurring revenues.
The first line.
The decrease in state revenue sharing.
That was made up by increased investors.
Management and performance of the investment portfolios.
So we are going to budget for more revenues to help offset some of these interests.
Decreases and other revenues.
The transfers and the third line.
They close out of the vid Mac funds.
$19 Million that is the fund balance reserves appears to be a little bit close to level.
There are a lot of details.
Some officers are up, other items are down.
We moved to the Sheriff's office.
From the general to the law enforcement fund.
External expenses.
It is the list of what is included.
It is up by $4 million.
The green lines.
Green being good.
Such as the areas that the general fund accounting manager controls.
We are down by $1.6 million which means we are down by that much but if you consider all the other cost increases there are even more reductions.
Beach management and beach capital funds we talked about.
We continue to have the road program set aside; this is something we mentioned during the last budget cycle.
We bring it forward in this year's budget and try to make it work.
This is showing that we could at this flat millage rate.
Then we've got the major capital improvement projects.
That is being funded with the one-time transfer and the use of the prior year on balance.
We haven't quite fully funded the road program.
However we are comfortable based on this forecast and we can get there.
At the very bottom I presented I want to make the reserves crystal clear.
How much we are using each year and where they are ending.
In FY 25 we estimate that we are going to use $30 million. Previously that number was much larger.
It was nearly $50 million.
Part of why we are able to reduce that number which adds to the reserves for 25 from what the original was instead of transferring $15 million and 26.
That left those funds in that reserve.
The additional line you can actually see is the third line.
That is $6.8 million.
That is reimbursing the general fund.
Some of the excess proceeds is a one-time transfer.
That is related to the fact that the MS building was able to be funded.
That is the amount that the building renovation set aside.
Log into the general fund.
Between that and the Sheriff's building previously the budget was much higher. I've got a summary.
$7.1 Million in revenue.
And mandatory external.
$6.3 Million related.
We are making up the budgetary difference.
The revenue that just didn't happen.
There is more revenue than there was before.
County departments achieved a net savings of $1.6 million despite four-point to million dollars in increases.
Stop there for many general questions.
The ad valorem tax revenues proposed at 1.599 Mills which is $101 million.
That is an additional tax revenue above the rollback rate.
And that is dedicated to fully funding the Sheriff's without a $10 million budget.
Blueshift rubber and echo.
To 000 Mills.
An additional 625,000 tax revenue for each program will be set aside for the echo program. We talked about some of the large grants that we are aware of that will potentially need some of this money.
The fiber program is budgeted so there are currently a lot of land pieces.
If you need that.
The MSD comparison to rollback which is $21.6 million.
The additional $896 rollback rate is dedicated to an additional transfer of the Sheriff's office.
The budget increase part of it is coming from the ad valorem and MSD.
Part of it is coming from the contract budgeted and part of it is coming from the carryforward funds.


>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Can you pause one minute?


>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Thank you Mr. Chairman.
I note the proposed tenement amounts will stop pollution forever right?
We regardless of the Volusia forever funds, how are we doing with the leveraging of our funds from the previous program?
I don't remember the name of it.
The grand resource leveraging from like $100 million or so.
Our performance in terms of leveraging is better than the last two programs.
So it lasts about 30% where we are over 50% so far we have that.
There was a $20 million grant that we received that money was rolled back so we believe that we will have an opportunity but they rollback the lump sum soon but they build up to nearly 100 partners to I think 15 or 20.
15 or 20 partners but they've increased the funding for the program over the next five years significantly so we feel lucky.
We feel confident we can reapply the leveraging match over 50%.
The 12 million of local taxpayer dollars.
We've leveraged nearly 30.


>> You can continue to do that if you want to rollback on this.


>> We can continue to do it but as I said last time we have significant purchases coming that require us to bond.
We are having these conversations so it will just be money that you have to borrow.
The bonding proposal will be based on what the millage rate is.
That could be the rollback number also.


>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Ryan, while you are talking about what you said when you were on general fund, since we moved that and it saves a general fund it doesn't save the taxpayers anything.
The other officer increases that's why it's playing with the outline.
So it stayed flat.
Didn't raise the millage rate.
A $10 million increase.


>> Between all of his revenue sources.
The amount is transferred from the MSD applying to city contracts as well as rolling forward a roughly $10 million budget.


>> It's actually – it's part of the future agenda item.
If you can pair the original budget request.
Part of the COVID money.
The Council allocated that as a multiyear capital project.
Has to apply to the Department of Revenue.
That project that we keep allocating.
The balance October 1, 2024 so he amended his budget.
To account for the money that we continue.
If you take that mapping project out to the $0.1 million increase.


>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Laura Roth and Lisa Lewis it's been a tough year.
For the clerk of the court because of revenues the budgets are bare-bones.
There are some increases they outscore but they were very kind to taxpayers.
I want to recognize you both.
We just question the property appraiser for a million-dollar expenditure.
It is true that after amendment 10, all these offices set their own budgets but it is still our responsibility to – we have to approve.
But it still stops here.


>> You don't have to approve, the state approves.
Consider the appeal a subsequent one.
But by state law you have to pay the property appraiser's budget.


>> And that was coming up.
The same with the Sheriff's Department.


>> All right.
Thank you.
I don't remember if I got completely through the slide but the amount on the screen.
The transfer for the toy services.
The budgets by tax are listed on the screen.
How much of that is funded from ad valorem revenue.
Countywide operating expenses are listed here.
The appropriated fund balance is 538 million.
That means his last year savings account.
How much are you going to earn this year?
How much are you bringing forward?
And that becomes the total budget.
Then where are we going to spend it?
It is listed in these different categories here.
How much did you plan on spending versus how much you plan on – the reserves previously on this I felt like it was worth explaining a little bit further.
We are a big County with a lot of responsibilities.
The largest piece of the pie is enterprise; we cannot use those reserves for anything pursuant to FAA regulations.
Similar stories apply across all.
The fire rescue district makes up the next pieces.
You can see they are set aside in each one of these separate funds.
It is a good chunk of the budget.
The fire rescue district had a viable discussion on that.
You cannot take those fire districts but put them in the general fund or use them on general fund projects.
Guide total there for the general fund.
The same number that you saw earlier.
That is broken up into a couple of different reserves.
By counsel policy that is 42 million roughly 500.
You might recall where I was showing the five-year forecast.
Then the contingency reserves but that is a much smaller number.
A history of the general fund millage rate, I wish that showed up better on the screen.
The retests have come down over the last 10 years.
The effective savings for all the taxpayers with all of these rate increases compared to a flat millage rate we just had nine years ago is a couple of courthouses.
I want to point out that this counsel approved a lot of tax savings including full rollbacks of the 1923 partial rollback in 25 which was almost a full rollback.
Personal rollbacks of 2021 and 20 to.
I'm showing the full effect of the law enforcement fund and the general fund in the years where we are separated.
Where last year the general fund went down but due to the Sheriff's budget request it was approved.
History of the millage rates, I talked about the number of times, you can see that other funds, especially since 21 a lot of times including the library proposed for its fifth and six years the Ponce daily on poor authority in the fire rescue district the last meeting second rollback in 10 years now is the point for public participation before we do that.
Questions from staff, David Santiago.


>> In preparation for a little bit later when we start talking about – can you tell us, how much the county pays back in CRA's to the cities.


>> Each taxing fund is a separate tax levy.
They are all separate calculations.
12 million total.
The rest of them are put together when you add them all up.
Is that money that should be going to the law enforcement fund that goes back to the cities?
The agreement still has to go through those related to those cities.
That piece comes back.
We actually pay that with sales tax transfer money.
The general fund had to pay that whole amount.
To the law enforcement fund liability.
Approximately $3 million of money that could stay in the law enforcement fund.


>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY Chair: Councilman Kent.


>> TROY KENT: Thank you chairman.
You said 12 million.
Is it a little bit more than 12 million?
7.9 or something like that?


>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: This year's budget is 12.8.


>> Almost $13 million and then since we are on the topic for CRA, George or whoever you want to have the answer , cities can use the CRA money to pay salaries for their employees.
The reason I ask is that we had a speaker come today who asked some very good questions and I know Commissioner Cantu in Daytona Beach is upset about the condition of many of the CRA in Daytona Beach.
She is concerned about the amount of money paid in salaries and benefits and cars etc. where I said here before and this counsel agreed with me that Holly Hill and Ormond Beach I'm not purposely leaving the other was out but I know those too are the poster child for how CRA districts should be utilized and when Commissioner reached out to me and was so upset about the amount of money that should be going back into the district to help the district yet blue Road looks the way it does with mattresses on the side of the road not even being picked up I bring this up at this point during the budget because I think the speaker was correct wherever he is if he still in the audience the speaker is correct.
There needs to be some type of oversight because otherwise this is why CRA gets a bad rap.
That is why the state wants to get rid of them and that is why many of you so wisely were concerned about extending CRA.
I just wanted to see about that.
My other question is that six days ago we received an email about a summary of notable changes for health insurance for our employees, so that is in between our last budget hearing and in between this one.
I wanted to make sure those changes were not on this agenda.
Where are we budgeting for that?
When is that going to come before us?


>> The health insurance fund is actually part of this budget across all employer entities.
Taxpayers are paying 8% more towards cost increases that we had to account for in the county managers.
The employees are being an additional 6%.
The rest of it, health insurance is increasing.
From year to date.
Up around 18% so that additional cost of claims self-insured.
An additional cost to claim it did not go into the budget.


>> Thank you.
And counsel, if I cannot just another minute and a half maybe on this I try to teach my son not to use the word hate.
To use loads instead.
But I hate this for our employees.
In my opinion, this is a kick in the teeth to them.
This is wildly inappropriate.
Looking at going from apparently none due to hundred $50 and it is deductible for family plans.
Most importantly can pay in a year from in network cares increasing from five – seven grand to 14 grant and the office of visits going from 25 – 40 bucks.
They go from 45 – 60.
Hospital service co-pay from $350 a day to $70 a day from $300 to 600 a day.
God forbid you get sick and have to go to the hospital.
I hate this because it is like we give you a 4% raise but then we are going to take it back and another form and we are beyond the point where we can raise our ad valorem.
And I'm not advocating for that.
I don't know about the timing and I've got to get George a pass because they said hey, I would love to talk to you about this.
But I wanted you gentlemen to hear it from me.
I don't like that for our employees.
I don't like it for their families.
It doesn't sit well with me and I saw a guy recently on a video talk about how he was so pleased with the rates he received from his employer and not here with his healthcare provider because they said I'm going to take 100% of your raise and 20% more on top of it.
It is a system that punishes the man and woman that goes to work every day and is trying to provide for their family and these increases, I'm not happy with.


>> The board lit up.
Troy, I didn't want to lose the momentum.
Maybe to continue at least one part of it.
Earlier today, it may have been yesterday.
I asked staff to look into the possibilities of what authority a county may have with the CRA that may be in violation of their terms.
I'm not accusing anyone is.
But I was going to ask this body to find a way or direct our staff to use the term audit.
But, look at the terms of all of the CRA's.
What might be available.


>> You know how I feel about CRA in general but at a minimum I think we should look at that.
I wanted to share that Mr. chairman.
There is a lot of emphasis on some other things for the public because the $10 million or $8 million in our general fund that Ryan shared.
That shows up in our millage rate.
The thing that you see, the newspaper prints that show how much our budget is going up and how much we are taxing you.
It is going there.
It's going to – and often do we get the details.
It is not – it is money that we have to transfer out to other entities.
In this case it is to the cities.
You've heard taxpayer concerns from the Commissioner about the concerns but, these are funds that we get blamed for what we don't necessarily assess.
Our hands are tied.
My objective here is to find out the Council's support if there are violations and maybe find ways to dissolve anything we feel should be dissolved.


>> Thank you for bringing that up.
Then you hit on the insurance.
Working for the county for 30+ years we can tell you.
It is true.
Your insurance costs just keep going up and keep going up after you retire.
But anyways.
I will refer to George when we look at that.
Thank you for bringing it up.
I guess I had a question for you Brian with respect to that.
That one in particular Stacy reached out to me as well.
I would say that right now.
She is.
The $283,000 for the one particular CRA.
Hundred and three spent on salaries that is true.
For that one predicament.
I apologize if I'm not asking.
Caught you off guard on that.
You have the documentation in front of us.
After just that.
So yes, I would get behind that.
I do know that something our people could do.
So I'm in favor of looking at this.
Yes, the state is moving towards that.
For that very reason.
There are some that work.
We saw it.
We had a holy hill here talking about it.
The mayor came here to discuss it.
Use it for flooding.
That is the hot topic.
I didn't see things about salaries and vehicles.
I saw things with respect to infrastructure.
There are areas within Daytona Beach alone.
– My district.
That is what they need if you've driven down through there.
Daytona does a great job but I'm just saying the respect to taxpayer money that is deferred through CRA for the purpose of that, it can be used to help correct it.
So I am on board with that.
I had to ask a question of, I put you on the spot.
Sorry about that.
But, I agree.


>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Councilmembers, CRA – I couldn't agree with you more on that.
I'm looking for $10 million so that we could go to rollback in general funds.
Here is $13 million.
I'm going to tell you it is worse than that.
Because not only have we given back $13 million but we still have got to provide the services.
That comes at a general fund too.
We still have got to pay for the fire department we stuck to pay for law enforcement.
Not providing all of the services that everybody else gets if it is now deficit spending because we have given them $13 million so, I think I voted against the Holly Hill one.
I wanted to be able to vote to help them with flooding because it is an issue but I don't think the CRAR is working.
I look at MainStreet and the millions of dollars that have come out of that, I am not seeing it on Main Street.
I don't see the improvements in the amount of money.
So the state set a date for 2035.
36?
We can do it sooner.
And I think we ought to look.


>> You are getting worse every time.


>> We can look at them.
I agree that we should probably look at them individually but I am – it is a lot of money.
County manager George.


>> Before you go, may I jump in about the CRA?
Chairman, is that okay with you?
Just because you said something let me make sure I put my name on the board to just comment on it.
You mentioned the CRA and Daytona Beach.
I just want to say, from what I've witnessed, around our county, they are not all the same.
And when Holly Hill came here and the mayor stood there and we really pinned them down.
And he said X amount would be used on stormwater and flooding control.
And, I challenge anybody to go back and look at pictures, get with either Bill Jones or Dorian B and look at pictures of Dawn downtown Ormond Beach 19 years ago Dick compared to how it looks now.
That is a poster child of how it should work.
So I just want to say.
I don't disagree with you, chairman.
But the one that you mentioned I think is a concern.
There are a couple that are a concern.
And I'm glad that Mr. Santiago brought up the idea that, what can we do as an elected body to make sure that things are being run the way they are supposed to be run.
And if not, what are our options?
Thank you.


>> That's exactly why.
We should look at each one individually although I am pretty close to being there.
County manager George.


>> Yeah, they vary.
State laws, nothing to go past 2039.
A lot of them are 2036.
There is 2044 that has debt associated with it.
So we can – we will look at each one of them individually.
We do look at as far as, do they follow what their ordinance says.
That is really part of the issue.
When you are talking about some of the original ones out of Daytona Beach.
They are following the ordinance but the problem is the ordinance is very broad.
So, things like salaries and stuff, the programs may not be the others.
The later CRK that came along.
Because previous councils did not like some of the things that occurred they tightened the rules up and saw how different things were where a lot of it is publicly owned capital.
A lot of it is stormwater.
And they also capture projects to maybe 50%.
So there are things in later CRA that are a lot tighter than in those earlier ones now, as far as oversight and Daytona Beach I believe the city commission has that oversight.
So at the end of the day, they can work on any changes they would like to make as long as it is within the ordinance which I said is very broad.
Health insurance.
I hate it as much as Mr. Kent.
We will work more on that.
The housing insurance talk will take effect in January. I just will point out that we really tried to keep our plan as an excellent plan.
It is probably a platinum plan when you look out across other plans.
The company that manages it is self-assured that the contract is out on the street now.
So maybe a new manager.
They are competing right now.
But it does exceed industry standards rather than – I just saw a report of statewide governments, cities and counties.
Many of these are looking at doubling.
The premiums.
And we took a little bit of a different approach.
We try to minimize the premium increase and yes, we had to make changes in some of the co-pays and deductibles.
We had no deductibles which is very rare . What we are proposing now in the upcoming plan will be a small deductible.
Hundred and $50.
But again, we work very hard because our gap is much larger and basically the healthcare cost has skyrocketed, pharmacy costs have skyrocketed and those are issues that we really have to address.
We are looking at other health programs.
Things that keep a healthy workforce.
And we are constantly working with the company Cigna to see how we can drive those prices down.
And again, teaching our employees what to use as far as the emergency room is very expensive.
We have other options, can we use those options including telehealth and other options that are there to keep costs down for not only themselves but for the plan as a whole.
And, someone had mentioned, yes, the sheriff just paid for the family.
So does the property appraiser and tax collector so they are all on.
So that adds a lot of people to the plan and a lot of families.
And unfortunately, that is where a lot of usage starts coming into the self-insured plan.
Now, Ryan has done a great job of working those costs to where they belong.
Within the organization.
But still, overall it is a huge expense when it comes to employees.
We are very cognizant of the fact we will be looking at other models in things we could do because we do not want to increase it anymore than we actually have to.
Has been amply here for 30 years.
Myself I can say I am very sensitive to what happens with the healthcare plan and I've been a user of it.
I know it very well.


>> The area is working.
But there also is a private investor that dumps a lot of money into that.
And I commend Mr. Brown for that.
That definitely, I just had to mention that.


>> I just wanted to add something to that.
Do we track our experience rate by department?


>> Is tracked by the person.
We have pulled insurance with our constitutional office.
Now we have three constitutions that just added a bunch of members to the plan so, my question is, the experience rate is how much we are paying out and how that program is working.
Can we or do we track experience rate by department?


>> We don't call it an experience rate but we are self-insured.
Caused by the department.
The rate that we set is a uniform rate and, not to get too much into the weeds but the opposite of adverse selection here people bring their family at no cost.


>> The younger people, families.
We don't know what we don't know.


>> George actually alluded to something.
When he said he was doing some work to make the cost go to the right place.


>> Previously refunded as an employer a flat amount regardless of which tier on the insurance.
We've broken that up this year.
Starting with this year we are going to charge a lower rate for the employee but a higher rate for families.
That way those plans that have more family coverage are paying for that family coverage as opposed to the blending that we did.
We are making sure the offices are paying more for that.


>> And see you mention that I want to mention this too.


>> To clarify, you said the officers are paying.
It's not the officers.
The organization is paying for that officer.
So I just want to make sure you say that correctly.
The officer is not paying anything.
We are paying, we are accounting for that person at that cost.


>> Constitutional officer.


>> Just three constitutional's correct?
There are three that are paying for the whole.
I want to again recognize Lisa and Laura.
Two constitutional officers.
Thank you for your fiscal approach to things and making life easier for us.
I see this.
This is our employee's plan.
If you work.
Having your family on this insurance is going to be $630 a month.
That does not include what the county pays.
We pay a big portion of that too.
Separately.
I just want to put that in context.
Add the entire family to free health insurance.
I know sometimes that will be a tool.
I can't say we did have a challenge one time with having a shortage of deputies and law enforcement here in the county.
Our sheriff decided to use that as a recruitment tool and it seems to work for him because it brought on a lot of great talent.
The reason you use these additional tools is when you have problems.
The other two departments are property appraisers and tax collectors not having a shortage of employees.
But they are giving these additional benefits just because you have to see it.
The budget you get from a home property appraiser raises taxes by this amount.
That's why I'm being very critical of it.
Again, it's not a personal attack because the blows are coming to us and I want the public to be with the knowledge.
And make your decision based on that.
I know we have public peace.
I want the public to know before you speak that constitutional officers are offering thousand dollar bonuses.
One is to thousand and one is proposing a $1000 bonus for every employee.
Not only are you giving him free healthcare for the entire family but to thousand dollar bonuses for every employee.
Thank you.
I'm on my soapbox.
Sorry Mr. Chair.


>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: We are at that point in the meeting for public participation.
We only have two people.
I want to speak.


>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Is everyone that wants to speak a lower millage rate in their house?


>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: The first one is John Nicholson.


>> John Nicholson Daytona Beach Beachside.


>> My eyes glossed over with all of these numbers.
I'm presuming he's done his own work and we are doing okay.
I oppose rollback consistently because you can get yourself in trouble.
Like the Daytona Beach thing.
But I do have a question on – which I brought up before I would consolidate the hospitals.
We have three districts.
One is functioning and the other two are not.
One that is functioning in the Westside is – our hospital for the Southeast is closed and they are not a private hospital.
Consolidation is the way to go.
We shouldn't have to have this.
It was a problem with the helicopter.
Daytona Beach or Halifax had to provide the helicopter for the entire County and we lost funding.
Keep losing money on all kinds of things.
So if we consolidated it would be better for Halifax.
Secondly, with regard to CRA, remember I brought it up to you that I would really like you to go back.
I've been attending for 35 years.
The county had someone on the board for 20 of those years.
And then for some reason got off the board and we've never put somebody back on.
We really need you guys to.
I just brought you the idea I don't think you guys expected affordable housing for what Daytona Beach did.
You need to look at the affordable housing and you gave $1.8 million.
You're giving money to the CRA.
All of our CRA were successful when we started.
And I understand you don't think they are successful now.
But if you go over the Main Street bridge, look for your left.
Those seven buildings that are there when we use funds to build.
When you look to the right and don't see anything, that is after – got there.
That was the problem.
Downtown is functioning well.
If you look at another year or so.
Whatever you see in downtown Beech Street, all of those will be duplicated all the way to the Main Street bridge.
That is on the agenda.
They are spending their funds.
Downtown is spending – Midtown is going to spend.
It's going to happen.


>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.
David?
Thanks, once again to the Council for allowing me to talk today and make my comments.
I am David and I am a resident once again.
The last time I was here the notorious Margaritaville was glorious, not notorious.
I do not speak on behalf of the residents in any official way.
I've been ostracized since I was here many weeks ago.
I speak for myself and I do believe that a lot of my neighbors are my gorgeous wife's neighbors.
I'm standing in support of – as I told you before, using the rollback millage rate the three-point to 007.
The 3.0464.
For many we feel out there we just don't get the services from the county.
And I know that some of these I'm going to name are not your responsibility so we hope that someday you can help us get these things.
But we have no post office.
We have no library nearby so a lot of people don't use the one on the beach.
We don't have parks.
Our roads are terrible.
We have a terrible traffic jam and as I stated before it is becoming a very serious health issue because we have a lot of seniors and they have to get to the hospital.
They have to get to doctors.
So we feel robbed of our taxpayer money.
We need help from you.
There is a bit of a revolution going on in the county and the country.
Taxpayers are seemingly tired of writing blank checks to governments and getting little and nothing in return.
The approval of property tax increases seem to be automatic every year.
Nobody comes up like me and fights.
We don't want to write a blank check. The market value of our homes has decreased for the past two years.
Yet the County has increased the taxable rate for those two years.
So once again, we are asking for you to consider the rollback millage rate.
My grandma used to say you guys and lady, watch the pennies and the dollars will wash themselves.
Thank you.


>> Thank you for your comments.
Cindy Harris.


>> Good evening again.
For the constitutional officers.
I think it is a great attractive benefit to bring employees on board.
I wanted to bring out some things to enhance that.
They are paying for their benefits.
The benefits they are paying for their employees in the future if they had this spouse or children and that will cut some of the taxes out however, if they do that and they enact a pretax plan for the employees that is going to save the employees on payroll that will also save the taxpayers with a dog to pay the property taxes.
We can look at the full rollback on the millage.
Also, if you enact some subliminal benefits to enhance the higher deductibles that are coming on board co-pays they are going to have to pay in higher deductibles for the hospitals and stuff.
Bring in some supplemental plans that are also pre-taxable so that will save the employees more on their payroll so that will help.
And that will help the property owners as well.
With four rollbacks.
Also, if you have new homeowners coming in paying the taxes you have them paying on their taxes so you can go full rollback because you're getting more property taxes in.
Does it make sense?
More taxes coming in on the properties.
You can go full rollback on the current property owners.
More tax money coming in.
Less property taxes you have to collect from the current homeowners.
It just makes sense.
So let's look at full rollback on the millage rates.
Thanks.


>> Thank you for your comments Maureen.


>> Hello everybody again my name is Maureen.
I want to talk about the property tax budget here.
First of all I want to just mention that this is my 2024 paid tax bill.
If you pay attention you might learn something.
It was called the Volusia County public safety fund.
It is now called, this is the proposed bill.
It is now called the law enforcement fund.
But who wouldn't want law enforcement.
We wouldn't want that would we?
Law-enforcement is in a public safety fund.
I want to mention that.
And I also saw on here at the school the taxes that last year it was one full thing that did to hundred $65.85.
It was one thing, school.
Now, we have a proposed bill for 2025 school required local which we heard from Brian.
Discretionary school and capital improvement school, we've broken it all out.
In 2024 property taxes for school that we paid were too thousand $629 and $0.85.
Today this is my proposed bill.
Hopefully willing to pay this.
It says it's going to be too much $620.30.
That is $1.54.
If no budget changes are adopted.
As far as I'm concerned the millage rate needs to come down.
And I want to just mention that in 2024 it used to be called the Volusia County stormwater, that's what it was called on.
The non-ad valorem that is now called in 25 is called the Volusia County stormwater drainage and water control management.
I don't know who changed it. I don't know if it is a tax appraiser but you know what?
I think you would do a good job with water management and I think it is important for all of you just to say that.
Thank you.


>> Thank you.


>> Those trim notices grow every year.
You kind of talk through that.
As far as our appraised values going up or down it is on us doing that.
The property appraiser, we don't manipulate the school a bunch unfortunately.
And lastly I guess I was born with – nobody pays a dollar to the government. I hope thinking that they are going to get that dollar back.
Taxes in my opinion are to pay for responsibilities and the common good.
I might pay taxes and never get that much benefit out of the county when we get older our kids get out of school just to pay the school bill.
We are keeping the next generation educated so they don't become hooligans and ruin our county.
I think we've got to take what we are giving those dollars for now.
Some of the things we are talking about appear to be things that we would love to control but we can't.
We want them to be addressed.
We had people on CRA boards that controlled the CRA.
There are plenty of series that don't have counties on the board just by virtue of that city so we did the best we can to keep your taxes as low as possible.
There are many people who want to.
As a matter of fact, we all probably – and if we did, you would be amazed at what gets cut and what can't get cut.
And what you lose.
I just had a gentleman talk about how we don't have a post office.
We don't have a library.
I could have many libraries if we don't go to rollback.
Or whenever we decide to cut.
We really got to think about what you want and don't want.
Is there less taxes or quality of life or better.
Some cities want better and they don't mind paying for better.
Some cities and here in the county most of what we are taxing out of his rule.
And most people want to be left alone.
I think we try hard to address the issues we brought up tonight about the CRA and concentration will spending.


>> Thank you Mr. Chairman.


>> Earlier this year or late last year.
The Council voted to send the letter to the governor of the legislature to look at revamping and also looking at possibly eliminating the process of property taxes.
And shortly after that, I don't want to say – at this idea but it started happening and discussion just weeks after that.
The fact is, our taxing process here in Florida is broken.
We explain a few examples of it very problematic and confusing for the general public where all of the money goes.
Who is accountable for a lot of parts that don't need to be that complicated.
I hope we can get to a point where at a minimum we restructure for transparency purposes in the state of Florida how taxes are collected. We talked a little bit about the constitutional officers. I brought up the whole to million dollars the property appraiser was asking for Andy to thousand dollar bonuses.
I know I'm repeating myself but, if you recall, that meeting we directed George to meet with the constitution and say help us out, be a team player to all of them.
Reach out to all of them.
And how you can help us.
Because we have a $10 million basically hold to get to rollback if we want to get to rollback we would have a $10 million hope.
And with the hope that some of those constitutional officers could help us, I will say again Laura and Lisa have some of the smaller budgets and the tightest budgets.
I got to see how they operate and how they get their funds so I think they've had a lot of dialogue, productive dialogue with our county manager.
I'm sad to say that the other ones didn't come to the table with any additional help for us to lower your millage.
I'm making some bold statements here.
They are the truth.
I want to ask my colleagues here.
I think we also discussed the possibilities.
I asked staff a couple of days ago to look at whether or not we can change the trim notice.
And we all get that in the mail.
I asked to see if we have any legal authority to make a change in how trim notices are sent out so that we can spell out for the public each particular constitutional officer what their budgets are.
What they were spending last year and what they are going to be spending this year, unfortunately you must have gotten the letter from our finance team that we don't have the legal authority to do that.
Which is sad because I think clearly the trim notice would be very good.
We can do that based on this state law.
I think some of my colleagues also mentioned that maybe we should send a notice to taxpayers explaining in greater detail what the changes are this year versus last year and where that money went and exactly detailing what we did also.
As an elected body.
I would like to see if there is support for that at a minimum.
I don't know if we can deal with that with the comments or now I think George is raising his hand.


>> I was going to say, why don't we deal with it and comment at the very least we could put it on our webpage.
And Facebook page.


>> I like that idea.
I noticed there will be a cost to mail it.
But not everybody goes to our webpage.
I would like to say there is a high percentage probability of people opening it.
But people need to know.
People need to know where their tax dollars are going.
And who is spending them.
Again, we are all elected.
They are elected, we are elected.
You should know where the money is going and hold everybody accountable to whatever they spend.
The problem here is that it all points this way.
I know I'm repeating myself but no one mentions any constitutional budget criticisms.
Online they don't say it.
Facebook doesn't say.
Here you don't say it.
You know why?
That's the problem.
I think women need to send out notices to everybody.
So you know where the money is going Mr. chair.
And I will kind of wrap up with one more thing here.
As you get ready to vote for the general fund this was an initiative you pull forward and I think it is worthy to discuss if you recall about a year ago for roads.
I was very supportive of that in recurring dollars.
I would like to hear what my colleagues think.
That 5 million, I supported it strongly and it didn't really get as many roads.
That was the criticism right?
I think we have over $100 million in infrastructure and road projects that we need to do.
So the money we get here is never going to solve our road program problems.
But, maybe I want to see if my colleagues think that it's worth it if not, to consider eliminating that $5 million because I think it only gets us a mile and a half of road and at a minimum try to buy down half of where we are at.
Because we need 10 but that will at least buy us down to half.
Then we need to seriously have that conversation as you said Danny, rightfully so.
What revenue sources can we go after in the future to find our road programs.
The 5 million isn't it.
I think we both acknowledge that.
I need to get serious about that but maybe the 5 million can help.


>> And David, that is a good point.
The one we save or package it, only gets us 1 mile.
Or we will also have several other programs, George, can you elaborate for any projects that are coming up with that 5 million.
I know there are some safety projects.
I know we have the dirt road program.
I know we have several others who go to safety projects and also some things here.
But the idea so yeah, there is more than just, I know we've given kind of the $5 million mile.
That is to take a two lane and make it a four lane.
That is what that number is about.
But they use the money I believe to either do safety projects or fill gaps or funding on other projects.
So you remember how we do fun things.
Impact fees for the most part and you do have the five cent gas tax that is for a new capacity.
So those come together and we coddle them together to make projects and then sometimes there is still a gap so we use the 5 million for that because it was restrictive.
One of our biggest issues is you have money but they are restricted to various areas.


>> How I leveraged counsel last time is we had some of these projects teamed up right?
Inroads in infrastructure come because the safety projects are huge.
We all know that we need them.
That was in lieu of, if we go back, there were two options.
Either this or option B. Bring you 70/$80 million whatever it was and road projects counsel decided to do this.
My proposed little counsel.
That's putting our money where our mouths are.
I will agree to take it off but I also want an agreement and commitment from this counsel because this stuff does add up.
We cannot not do anything.
This is to start chipping away at some of these other programs.
I have no problem taking this off.
But if we come up with 10 million, bond it and whatever it was to actually address some of the major issues but I'm going to need more.


>> May I respond?
Danny, good point.
I wanted to bring it up. I wasn't suggesting we absently do it.
We could at least have dialogue around it.
You remind me of some of the other points.
How we could bond them.


>> We also talked about road millage.
I will wrap up with my comments later.


>> I was just going to hit on your part when we talked about the explanation.
Because the chair brought up a good point.
But to have that notification at first.
I would've said mailing is expensive but a good point that was brought out is, that being said you get that explanation and I will leave it at that.
But that's something we can discuss later.


>> I will speak on both topics very briefly.
Mr. Santiago, I think it is a wonderful idea our sheriff does a great job and is also not afraid to put it out to the people with hey, this is what my budget is and this is what it takes to run a county this size and keep everybody safe.
And we have that.
That is on the tax bill.
So I think you've hit the nail on the head.
The transparency is fluently totally and completely needed.
As far as the $5 million.
Here is your consistency again.
You're trying to save the taxpayers money and I admire that.
That being said, Mr. Robbins you know, he talked about the $5 million and even though it is not nearly as much as we want to do something I agree Mr. Robbins has to be done.
We get emails and sometimes he shows up.
A gentleman named Keith gestures.
I think of him as a very smart man and he hammers on the core responsibilities of the government.
And I won't speak for any of you but I think I probably could on this.
The core responsibilities of the government are to have six streets.
Police protection, drivable streets.
You have to provide water.
Wastewater.
These are core responsibilities of the government and then, those are all of the extras this counsel approved and believed to do to make Volusia County a desirable place for the people that live here and the people that visit as well.
I am okay either way with it but I'm leaning more towards, I would like to – I think listening from what I'm picking up I like Danny's idea to keep the money in their because it does do something and that's what we have to do until the Council is ready to put a dedicated millage rate for renewal and replacement I don't think we should pull this out.


>> A couple of questions.
The County manager there were some people that went to our website and looked through and don't know how many.
If they look through all of the pages of the budget I've had multiple questions because it looks funny.
I remember what it was but one of the first things under commercial kitchens was a kitchen cattle for $48,401 and of course everybody looks at that as a kitchen cattle.
I believe it was an entire kitchen off it the Council had approved it wasn't a big cast-iron pot correctly.


>> I believe it probably came from corrections.
When you're cooking for 4500 meals a day probably something a little bit different.
Go ahead.
The chicken kettles are large and we had two kitchens.
We had one that does the bulk of the cooking so those kettles are large, commercial is a nice way to put that.
I think very large kettles like so it was a big pot?


>> It is a big pot.
And we had to replace those several times so we are building in money throughout our budget to be able to replace those as needed.
But then we do use those to the end of life.


>> I will tell you, they are huge.
You can probably put it at 20 David's end.


>> And we have two in the kitchen?


>> There are five kettles and we do use them.


>> When I say those we use to the end of life.
We've welded those and made repairs to them as well.
It's necessary for sure.
When we say it is more than a pot.
It's a whole unit.


>> Exactly, yeah I think this came to counsel.
I remember going through all of that because the question would have come up.
$48,000 For a pot and that's why I think it was a whole kitchen unit.


>> How big are the spoons?


>> Tiny tiny spoons.
So, very large equipment.


>> I am glad we're laughing about it but when the public sees that, all they see is kitchen cattle, $48,000 and, so it creates questions.


>> Somebody would have in their house for sure.


>> Okay.
I know I'm not going to find $10 million but I do have a question.
I think we went through this last year.
On one – four different pages in different fonts in different segments of the County there are vehicles.
All of these separate vehicles, pickup trucks, whatever was like 340 to thousand dollars but then we have a vehicle replacement fund for 10,000,340 to.
What is the difference?


>> The vehicle replacement fund is just for that.
If there is a new need like if there is new staff or if it is a vehicle that was for some reason a replacement program and it is time to replace that vehicle then the money has not been saved up that apartment has to pay for it in that case.


>> The vehicle replacement is for vehicles that we already have.


>> The vehicle replacement fund is paid for by each department and division annually.
It is an increment like if it is a 10 year replacement cycle the money gets saved every year.
If this department was not contributing towards that and it is time to replace that vehicle then they have to budget for it.
They will typically enroll it in the vehicle replacement program.
If there are any that are needed for some reason and all of the different funds across the county that would also be shown as an individual capital outlay.


>> Of the 10 million for a replacement built every year?


>> I don't know the exact number where you're pulling that off of.


>> The forecast for the vehicle replacement fund.
That 10 million is the budget for the replacement vehicles this year.


>> That is not just trucks.
That is heavy equipment.
That is firetrucks.
A lot of different types of equipment.


>> Maybe not the same number.


>> It goes up and down depending on the replacement site.


>> You try to level it.
That is the whole point of the replacement program.
Otherwise you would see wild swings.
You would see one year with two or three firetrucks that would be $1 million a piece.
This right here is contributing a little bit every year.
So basically you get a new vehicle and your star is safe for the next vehicle.
We also factor into that.
The life of the maintenance and the resale value.
And because they are fleet maintained you turn over a lot of those vehicles and the sales go back into the fund to  help offset the overall cost.
As a way to manage fleets and keep your cost level for a period of time and you are not paying extra for maintenance as well.
When it does come time to make that purchase out of the fleet replacement.


>> Intends to level out but one might have the afterglow budget of the fleet replacement program with no firetrucks in the fire fund.
In the fire budget – if there is a new vehicle if it is part of the replacement program the fleet replacement fund.
We do have firetrucks in the fleet.
We do replace a tech rescue truck.
That is in the general fund because that is not part of the replacement programs.
They have not been paying those annual contributions.
That would be an example once that is purchased in that fund we will look to enroll it in a fleet replacement fund and every year from here on out they will contribute a portion the fleet replacement program goes into that separate fund to save up for the eventual replacement.


>> A couple of more.
Again it is confusing when the public reads this audiovisual equipment.
Million 747 but as for emergency management.
What is that cover?


>> For the emergency operations center.


>> It is a roomful of giant screens much bigger than what you have here.
The entire County, cities most of that technology one and with the original opening of the billing and while it does seem like just yesterday especially in technology past its life.


>> Good evening gentlemen.
The original technology that was installed 11 years ago is what we are contending with right now.
To upgrade to that technology.
Currently we are spending quite a bit of money.
Replacing power supplies and projectors and trying to maintain the equipment again with the change in technology and changing and software platforms.
It is beyond life and in a particular case one of the systems that we use to display various information across the entire emergency operations center the backbone of the system is beyond.
So if we use a piece of that system we are down to  buying – I've spent hours in there actually watching people in those cubicles.
It is a high stress job I never want to have.
I think you rotate people through there just for that.


>> I just want to add one thing to the project.
That project is to carry forward from the current year.
That was a budget in the current year that was already approved.
We could not secure the software and get implemented in times that were carried forward into the budget.
So it is this year's money that is carried forward into the budget.


>> Library services $150,000 for radiofrequency identification system.
What is that?
I'm sure that the library director will add something to this. I went to the library recently with my young daughter.
Their whole checkout system I'm guessing has something to do with that as she walks.


>> We will see how close you are.


>> Gave meaning our entire collection is almost a million items.
Or if I do tags on them and we have a security system when you check it out turns that security system off.
We also have self check six stations throughout most of our facilities and some of those are due to be replaced.
They will be upgraded and so it allows us to consolidate a public service desk so a lot of folks use self checkout and Ryan uses self checkout at the delay in libraries.
It is efficient for us to roll it every year because we have 14 locations.
We all have the tags and most of them have the security gates.
We don't want to replace them all at one time.
So we periodically replace the hardware as we need as well as the self check stations.
I want to add one more thing to that conversation.
She mentioned it's an efficiency thing.
As part of that and other things that have been done at the library system.
The role came back in six years.


>> Okay.


>> One more out of curiosity I think the public will live this.
Under environmental management there is a $20,000 therapeutic laser.


>> Environmental management director.
That is not because I'm stressed out and need labor therapy.
It is just a treatment for sea turtles we have in the hospital.
I will say we have a capital equipment program for the equipment life over the number of years that we can.
And we also aggressively look for grants for things that aren't medical equipment for sea turtles and we put them in the sort of replacement schedule where we look for grants.


>> Thank you.
That's what I thought it was for.
I wanted to hear you say it.
[LAUGHTER] I wasn't sure.


>> TROY KENT: Chairman I just wanted a moment to publicly complement you for, all of us I know go through the budget line item but I'm appreciative that you are asking questions about specific things that are not only enlightening for this council but I know also for the general public as well and any time that we are able to have Councilman Reinhart talk about the size of – four $45,000 in the jail is an informational day for me.
Thank you very much chairman for going through it with a fine tooth comb.


>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I will throw a curveball out there.
I had a question regarding our landfill.
I'm just brainstorming here.
It is an enterprise fund, correct?
Help me understand briefly what an enterprise fund is and what it can do.


>> An enterprise fund is the term that most people would understand. It is a business of self-sustaining. There are some technical accounting definitions required by statute to be an enterprise fund.
Who are our counselors?
Landfill customers are mostly the general public to the landfills.
Do we have contracts outside of the county that bring the trash year?


>> We could talk about that.
We do.
So.
The garbage generated the rates that the Council sets.
We get waste from outside of the county.
The rate is double, however, there is an agreement with both Flagler County and Palm Coast one dollar and a 25% over the rate.
The agreement was signed 20 something years ago.
And is actually coming due here next year.


>> I misunderstood.
Are we at risk of losing something or gaining something?
The agreement that allows Palm Coast to bring it to 25% the county rate is expiring next year.
Palm Coast currently brings their garbage to the landfill and pays the additional rate, actually has an initial meeting with their staff to discuss potential extension of the contract.
They have it as well but they don't bring their garbage to the county.
Occasionally they do if there is an issue of the place where they sent it to they had to bring it to us for a little while they had the same agreement in place is cheaper for Palm Coast to bring their trash year.
Some of your haulers are in their own landfill.
So they internalize their waste and take it to a landfill that they own or they control.
So a lot of, when they get north of here they tend to take it towards the landfills of that area.
It is a huge asset that we have here and we are lucky to have a life helping us to invest and in keeping that life we have projects we have going now but we have counties that have lost the life of landfill and are forced to move the garbage here in South Florida about the garbage strains that are coming out of Miami-Dade and having to go to Okeechobee, places like that and of course the cost of the disposal that skyrockets for things like that.
We are not in that situation because of the foresight landfill we are working on right now and adding a lot more life to that with our expansion process project.
Exhibits not mandated by state law can penetrate that without affecting capital projects to see if we could be an additional revenue source for our general fund.
That was my purpose.


>> Let me just answer.
That is our bigger question.
The short answer is yes, we could.
The answer you really need to get into is again like I said you don't want to sell your life away about landfill.
Once it's full you're probably not going to be another one.
I would say, we look at those things very cautiously.
And there may be opportunities to help out a neighboring county. We have an analysis to say, when we want to open it to other areas and fill it up when we are looking at a total of 100 years.


>> The current land we've set aside at last us for 100.


>> That assumes the garbage and the rates of what we have today.
Another county or another source.
It would obviously shorten that life.


>> We could look at that.
And that is again, that is partly as Ryan points out.
We do take 4% of the general fund as well.
In the future, once the thing has completed expansion we can analyze where we are at and there could be a possibility of maybe increasing that 4%.
So I don't want Regina to run over here and hit me.
We have to run it wisely and invest in it correctly but yes there are opportunities to make money.


>> I will say that Palm Coast and Flagler reached out to extend the agreement.
However we are negotiating with them on the price point and things like that.
So would anticipate coming back to this council for a potential extension of the agreement.


>> This could be a different rate.


>> We have to get creative.
It sounds like you're already on it.


>> MATT REINHART: Glad you brought that up David.
Thank you for mentioning that.
You can talk about taking on more.
He requires this plan that we have for the current self that obviously minimizes new cells, new money.
But you make that money back if you do it right.
I didn't want to not bring this up, you know how to come down.
But I commend him from what you brought up.
And one of the things, well, maybe I do.
It is, is there still a plan for any event heaven forbid I am not going to say the H word.
Heaven forbid an significant event has this way or heads towards Tallahassee.
That the state UOC would go where?


>> Yes sir.
We are the primary backup for the state.


>> That needs to be taken into consideration when you talk about technology doubling the amount of people.
Doubling the amount of people we receive the $400,000 if you read the tea leaves, the reason for that check.
But that is – I didn't want that to go unnoticed and not said.
Technology is expensive.
Anybody knows when you buy a computer and you walk out of the score it is outdated.
Look at it and big jumbo screens.
The reason for the purpose is if you've ever had the opportunity to go in to accommodate all those people how internalized it is and little small buckets of information out there everywhere has to look at one central screen and ask to know what's going on.
So thank you.


>> As much as I agree.
I'm going to tell you we don't welcome it.


>> Most welcoming means we have a really bad hurricane.
I know I see more questions for you.
We've done public participation in the County Counsel discussion.
Because if you don't, the County Counsel will adopt the budget.
We haven't found $10 million yet.
Councilman Santiago.


>> Those programs are running well.
There is no need for additional money right now.
I know they do great work but people need tax relief and I'm going to give it to them wherever I can.


>> Councilman Dempsey.


>> I'm sorry, how about now?
Is that better?
Same feelings.
Then I talked to Brad about it.
And he had some pretty good reasons why we should go to rollback on both of those.
Could share that with everybody.


>> I think the important thing in terms of echo is we do have some projects on the horizon and the programs are doing well.
But more importantly we have the direct County expenditure program now which is essentially, we are using ECO dollars to replace some of the general fund dollars as well.
And through that plan.
And that was really what the plan was for.
Initially.
It is to see how we could look at echo and supplement projects in the general fund.
So what you are doing is, by keeping what the taxpayers have said, that too .0 millage it gives more money to fund and the general project.
I know you pressed the button.
Was that part of your plan when we were looking at this?
Direct expenditures?
For the additional higher millage?


>> Not the additional higher millage but to provide some relief to the general fund.


>> MATT REINHART: I have one question for you.
We haven't really gone into it.
We haven't discussed it a lot.
But the new ball facility we are talking about doing, we have an idea roughly of where that park will go.
East side or west side of the county.
So, the west side of the county.
And some of that would be paid for out of echo?


>> I think this council voted that it would all be for the direct expenditure rate.
Okay, thank you chair.


>> I love it.


>> Any other questions?
From the Council?
Comments?
Okay.


>> I wasn't going to chime in but, they are to items that were – no it was up to – I very much understand that point, thank you.
To milk, a lot of our problems would go away.
Again, we have to understand or take our best guess based on input what our public wants.
Do they want to pay nothing in taxes and get everything they can out of government or do they want what they voted on?
Which is forever an echo.
They didn't go on our general budget.
They didn't bill on how much you pay employees really.
But they did vote on forever and echo.
The comments I usually get is, that is not what the referendum said.
It said point to and we assume that to mean that we were going to get pointed to.
Before we had direct County expenditures, we could not spend it quickly enough.
So we had direct County expenditures and we are paying huge chunks of money to provide things that I think the community at large benefits from.
So, it would be easy if the argument is less taxes.
If our going in argument is a balanced approach.
This is one thing you hear that is overwhelmingly approved. I never heard anything throughout the year that we spent too much money except maybe one person.
So it is a hard one for me.
I would rather get it somewhere else to tell you the truth.
Which I am more than willing to discuss.
So, thanks.


>> Think of your chair.
Yeah, I think the majority of people voted for that very reason.
Anytime I talk to anybody about any echo projects they are in favor of it.
Giving the opportunity to ride along with you.
To go see some of the projects that were out there knowing the importance of that and what the community wants.
And I agree with you.
And that we are not separating this and it is off topic about echo and forever.
So I will put it out there.
The last time when we voted, the first-round we mentioned about fire and the separation of fire and I still feel that way.
I'm not going to vote no for this because it's packaged in when we are separating the fire from the first boat.
Just for informational purposes.
I still have some heartache over that and the fire issue.
Robins and I voted that way.
But understandably I did not want that not to be mentioned.


>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Last stir of the pot.
I wanted to bring clarity to my commentary.
Forever, I felt like it was doomsday to eliminate the program.
I'm not looking to eliminate the program.
It is, how much more taxes should be gathered from the public?
I get it, people voted up to two million.
But at the end of the day, people look at the check they write where they check their mortgage company rights.
It is either too thousand or 1900 or whatever it is.
It is taxes.
I just felt that is worthy of discussion to both of those programs.
Now an argument was made that may have echoed the direct expenditures.
How about the argument for forever?
Why we should not go to rollback we heard a good case here.
From Brad I think he said 50%.
Is that right?
50?
This year alone of the properties that we bought were $27 million, 5.3 million was local dollars.
$21.7 Million to the state.


>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Forever is doing good.
Let's give the people a little tax relief.
I get it, the pressure, the phone because you're going to get it.


>> When we were discussing it.
We will gladly do what the Council wants.
It is your prerogative.
We have significant purchases coming on the horizon in the next six months that will deplete our reserves and require us –.


>> And will have enough money to buy a Ferrari.


>> And one of your biggest fans.
I get it.
It is more of a principal thing.
Where do we strike that balance?
We can buy and a half $1 billion worth of land.
Every year I struggle with this.
 I get hate mail, it's coming.
I don't want to disparage anyone but have the courage to say my conviction.


>> You know, earlier if I heard something correctly when we were talking about the landfill.
I don't want my house being burned down because I asked the question.
Okay?
Did you say, did I hear you correctly, there is a state statute that is controlling land fill? It should feel profitable because the government is not supposed to be heading.
How healthy is it compared to the money that's needed for the landfill expansion and everything else?
How healthy are our reserves for the landfill?


>> You may recall there is a set of funds I bring every year for the five-year forecast.
You guys make an individual vote on tax millage.
Many many more funds than that.
We put them in the recommended budget but we don't present all of them to counsel.
We only present the ones that have pertinent issues.
The solid this fund is very carefully balanced that kind of precision to make this work
And we also factor into that the life, maintenance and the resale value.  They are fleet maintained and we turn over a lot of those vehicles and the sales go back into the fund to help offset the overall cost.  It is a way to manage fleets and keep your cost level over a period of time.  So you're not paying extra for maintenance as well.  
>>  George is spot on.  Every individual budget is contributed and it is to keep that level.  When it does come time to actually make that purchase in the fleet replacement program, it does tend to level out.  One year might have more equipment and another year for the actual budget of the fleet replacement program.  The departments are paying an increment that is smooth over the course of time.  
>>  Are there no fire trucks in the fire fund?  In the fire budget?  
>>  The fire truck if there's a new vehicle or a vehicle that is not a part of the replacement program, it would be in the fire fund.  It is a part of the replacement program -- [INDISCERNIBLE].  We do have five trucks in the fleet replacement program.
>>  I know in the prior general fund I know there was a request to replace a tech rescue fund.  It was not a part of the fleet replacement program.  They have not been paying the annual replacement.  It is in the individual fund.  Once that is purchased in fun, we look to enrolled in the fleet replacement fund and every year from here on out, they will contribute a portion of that vehicle cost to the fleet replacement program.  It goes into the separate fund to save up for the eventual replacement.  
>>  Okay, thank you.  A couple of more just because again, it is confusing with the public reads it.  Audiovisual equipment $1,009,747 but it is for emergency management.  What does that cover?  
>>  If you have been out there it is a roomful of giant screens much bigger than what you have in here and computers for the entire county and cities and everybody that uses them.  It is specific but most of that technology went in with the original opening of the building.  While it just seems like yesterday, it is not and especially in the technology world it is past its life.  
>>  Good evening gentlemen.  Again as George Recktenwald said that is what we are contending with the right now.  It is an upgrade to that technology.  Currently, we are spending a quite a bit of money replacing power supplies and projectors and trying to maintain that equipment.  Again with the change in technology and the change in software platforms, it is beyond life.  In one particular case one of the systems we use to displace various information across anti-emergency operations center, the backbone of the system is beyond life.  If we lose a piece of the system, we are down to try to find parts on eBay to repair it.  That is the reason for the technology.  
>>  Thank you for the explanation.  I have spent hours in there watching people in those cubicles.  It is a high stress job that I never want to have.  I think you rotate people through their just for that.  
>>  I want to and wanting a project.  The project is a carryforward from current year.  There was a budget in current year that was already approved.  We cannot secure the software and get it implemented and time.  That was carried forward into the budget so it is this year's money that is carried forward in the budget.  
>>  Is not coming from China is it?  [LAUGHTER] 
It is not your library services $150,000 for radio frequency identification system.  What is that?  [LAUGHTER] 
>>  I'm sure the library director will add something to this.  Another whole book systems so I went to the library with my young daughter.  Their whole checkout system is RFID.  
>>  We will see how close you are.  
>>  Good evening.  Library services director.  Our entire collections of almost a million items have RFID tags on them.  We have a security system and when you check it out, it turns the security system off.  We have system through our facilities and some of those who -- they are at the end of life.  It allows us to have public service desk so people who do self checkout.  It is an efficiency for us so we do not lose materials that walk out of the door.  
>>  It is a yearly field -- fee?  
>>  We have 40 locations and they all have the RFID tags.  Most of them have the security gate.  We do not want to replace them all at one time so we periodically replace the hardware as we need to like the RFID pads as well as the self check stations.  
>>  Okay, thank you.  I appreciate it.  I want to add one more thing to the conversation.  She mentioned it is an efficiency thing.  It is if you get the role back in six years.  
>>  Just out of curiosity, I think I know what it is and I think the public will like this.  Under environmental management there is a $20,000 therapeutic laser.  Here she comes.  
>>  Good evening.  Environmental management director.  It is not that I'm stressed out and need laser therapy.  It is for the sea turtles in the hospital.  I will say, we have a capital equipment program and we track the equipment life over the number of years.  We also aggressively look for grants for things that are medical equipment for sea turtles.  While we can budget for those items and put them in the replacement schedule, where we can we look for grants.  
>>  Thank you.  That is why I thought it was for but I wanted to hear you say it.  I wasn't sure.  Thank you.  Councilman Kent?  
>>  I wanted to publicly complement you and all of us go through budget line item but I am appreciative that you are asking questions about specific things that are not only enlightening for this council but also for the general public as well.  Anytime that we are able to have Vice Chair Reinhart talk about the size of a pot for $48,000 in the jail is an informational day for me.  Thank you very much, chairman for going through it with a fine tooth comb.  
>>  Councilman Santiago?  
>>  I had a question regarding our landfill.  I am just brainstorming here.  It is an enterprise fund correct?  
>>  Yes.
>>  Help me understand what it enterprise fund is briefly and what he can do?  
>>  Enterprise fund is a term that most people would understand, it is in the business of self-sustaining.  
>>  Is a required by statute to be an enterprise fund?  
>>  It is not.  
>>  Who are our customers?  
>>  The landfill customers are the ways dollars but the general public as well.
>>  To have contracts outside of the county that bring their trash here?  
>>  We can talk to that, we do.  We have it with Flagler County.  
>>  To answer your question, the garbage generated in Volusia County collected by the city's is in the DeLand landfill.  We get waste from outside of the county and the rate is doubled.  However, there is an agreement with both Flagler County and Palm Coast that allows them to bring their waste at $1.25 which is 25% over the current rate.  That agreement was signed 20 something years ago.  It is actually coming due here next year.  
>>  Are you saying, I am misunderstanding.  Are we at risk of losing something or gaining something?  
>>  The agreement allows Palm Coast and Flagler to bring their waste to Volusia County at 25% over the county rate is expiring next year.  Palm Coast currently brings their garbage to the landfill and pays the additional rate.  We actually had an initial meeting with our staff to discuss potential extension of that contract.  Ask Flagler doesn't have one?  
>>  They do not bring their garbage to the county.  Occasionally they do if there is an issue with the location where they send it to.  They had a fire and they had to bring it to us for a little while.  So they have the same agreement in place that Flagler does.
>>  I am going to assume it is cheaper for Palm Coast to bring it here than Flagler?  
>>  They do not have a landfill and Flagler.  
>>  So where do they bring it?  
>>  What they call internalized waste and bring it to a landfill that they own or they control.  A lot of when you get north of here, they tend to take it towards Georgia in the landfills they own in that area.  You see other areas where the landfill can be its own presentation.  It is a huge asset that we have here and we are lucky to have it.  Of course you guys are helping us invest in keeping that life and the projects that we have going on.  But you have counties that have lost the life of a landfill and are forced to move their garbage sometimes here in South Florida by garbage trains that are coming up out of Miami-Dade and having to go to Okeechobee.  And of course the cost of disposal skyrockets for things like that.  We are not in that situation because we had the foresight to have a landfill.  We are working right now on adding to our expansion project.
>>  I was seeing if there were opportunities that we can explore outside the county.  I know it is an enterprise fund but if it is not mandated by state law, can we penetrate that without affecting capital projects that we have planned to see if it is an additional revenue source for our general fund.  That was my purpose.  
>>  Let me answer because that is the bigger question.  The short answer is, yes we could.  The answer you need to get into again like a said you don't want to sell away your life of that landfill.  Once it is full there's probably not going to be another one.  I would say, we look at those things very cautiously but there may be opportunities to help out.  If there is a fire that occurs in our landfill.  We would have to do engineering analysis to say, what do we want to open it to other areas and fill it up?  We are looking at 100 years?  
>>  The current land that is permitted for future sales.  
>>  That is Volusia County's -- It would obviously shorten the life of you did that.
>>  We have other sell opportunities out there.  
>>  We can look at that.  That is part of what you might want to -- 
>>  We take a 4% fee out of their also to supplement a general fund.  In the future once the thing is completed the expansion and of course that has debt associated with it.  We can analyze that where we are at and the possibility of maybe increasing the 4%.  I don't want Regina to come over here and hit me.  There is a possibility but only again if you want to correctly make sure we're doing everything.  It is like a utility, we have the run it wisely and invest in it correctly.  Yes, there is opportunity to make money.
>>  Palm Coast and Flagler reached out to extend that agreement.  However we are negotiating with them on the price point and things like that.  I would anticipate coming back to this counsel for potential extension and that agreement.  
>>  It sounds like you are already on it.  Thank you.  Thank you Mr. chair.
>>  Vice Chair Reinhart?  
>>  George, thank you for mentioning that.  You can talk about taking on more and gaining more revenue but it requires this plan that we have for the and it minimizes.  You make that money back if you do it right.  I didn't want to not bring this up but I commend him for what you brought up.  One of the things that maybe I do, having for bed I'm not going to say the H word a significant weather event heads this way or heads towards Tallahassee that the state would go where?  
>>  Yes, we are the primary backup for the state.  
>>  So that needs to be taken in consideration when we talk about technology and whatnot and what is needed?  If you're talking about probably doubling the amount of people when you're talking about the governor and everybody else in his entourage that come down here.  We welcome that.  We encourage that.  It makes sense to have it in Central Florida for that.  I was really excited about the fact that we are that receiving facility.  And it is what we have to expand it.
>>  We receive $400,000.
>>  Exactly.  It is the reason for that check.  I didn't want it to go unnoticed that technology is expensive.  You buy a computer and you walk out of the store, it is outdated.  Look at it on big jumbo screens.  The purpose if you ever had the opportunity to go into E OC and how internalized it is in small buckets of information everywhere has to look at one central stream and has to know what is going on.  Thank you for what you brought.  
>>  Thank you.  As much as I agree, I'm going to tell you we do not welcome it.  Welcoming it means we have a really bad hurricane.  I do not see any more questions for you.  We have done public participation, County Counsel yet no other questions or discussion from counsel?  If you don't then we go to the hard part County Counsel to adopt the budget.  We have a found $10 million euros.  
>>  I am leaning towards rollback on Volusia for ever and echo.  Those programs are running well.  There is no need for extra monies.  People need tax relief.  I want to give it to them however I can.  
>>  Councilman Don Dempsey?  
>>  I initially agreed with you.  Same feelings but then I talked to Brad about it and he had some pretty good reasons why we shouldn't go to rollback on both of those funds.  I will share that with everybody.  
>>  I think the important thing in terms of echo is we do have some projects on the horizon and the programs are doing well.  But more importantly, we have the expenditure program now which is essentially, we are using echo dollars to replace some of the general fund dollars.  And through that plan and it was what the plan was for initially was to see how we can look at ECHO and supplement projects in the general fund.  So what you're doing by keeping with the taxpayers have said the 2.0 millage gives us more money to fund more projects in the general fund.  
>>  The taxpayer says up to, correct?  
>>  Yes.  
>>  Was that a part of your plan when you are looking at the direct expenditures for the additional higher millage?  
>>  Not the additional higher millage but to provide relief to the general fund.  
>>  Thank you Mr. chair.  
>>  Vice Chair Reinhart.
>>  We haven't really gone into it and haven't discussed it a lot but I think it warrants being asked.  The new ball facility that we were talking about doing, we have an idea roughly of where that park will go?  East side or west side of the county?  
>>  East side.  
>>  Little west out of the county?  Some of that would be paid for at of ECHO?  So that is a big chunk of money that will come out of that?  
>>  Yes, sir.  
>>  Any other questions from the Council?  Comments?  
>>  I was not going to chime in but ECHO and forever are two items that were approved.  It was up two mills and I very much understand that.  Thank you.  Again, we have to understand or take our input and what the public wants.  Do they want to pay nothing in taxes and get everything they can out of government?  Or do they want but they voted on which is for ever and ECHO.  They did not vote on general budget.  They did not vote on how much to pay.  But they did vote on forever and ECHO.  I think even though it is an up to amount, the comments I usually gets, it means we are going to get .2.  The direct County expenditures, we could not spend it quick enough.  We had County expenditures and we are paying huge chunks of money to provide things that I think the community at large benefits from.  It will be easy if our going argument is less taxes.  If we are going argument is a balanced approach and give people what they want and what you hear overwhelmingly approved.  I have never whole -- heard anything throughout the year that we spend too much money for ECHO and forever.  Except maybe one person.  It is a hard one for me.  I would rather get it somewhere else to tell you the truth.  Which I am more than willing to discuss.  Thanks.  
>>  Vice Chair Reinhart?  
>>  I think the majority of the people voted for that for that vary reason.  Anytime I talk to anybody about the ECHO project or the forever project, they love it.  Given the opportunity to ride along with you to see the projects and knowing the importance of that and what the community wants, I agree with you.  I know we are not separating this.  I know this is off topic of ECHO and forever so I will put it out there.  Last time we voted the first round, we mentioned about fire and separation of fire and I still feel that way.  I am not going to vote, no for this because it is packaged in with this and we are not separating the fire from the first vote.  Just for informational purposes, I am just putting it out there to have to go over the prior issue.  Understandably, I am going to be for this.  
>>  Councilman Santiago?  
>>  I want to bring clarity to my commentary to ECHO and Volusia forever.  I felt like it was a doomsday program.  I am not looking to eliminate the program guys.  It is how much more taxes should we gather from the public?  And I get it that people voted for up to 2% or up to two mils.  They look at the check that they write or the check the mortgage company rights.  It is is a 2000 or 1900 or whatever it is.  It is taxes.  I felt that is worthy of discussion for both of those programs.  Now an argument was made that ECHO the direct expenditures.  How about the argument for forever and we should not go to rollback on forever.  We had a good case here from bad saying that he is doing a great job at leveraging the money he already has.  I think he said 50%?  
>>  I did the math when we are sitting here.  This year alone the properties we bought were $27 million 5.3 million was local dollars.  
>>  That is a lot more than 50%.  Thank you.  Forever is doing good.  Give the people little tax relief.  I know it is a small amount but we are either for taxes or will not.  I understand phone call you're going to get.  
>>  When we were discussing it, we will gladly do whatever the Council wants.  It is your prerogative.  We have significant purchases coming on the horizon in the next six months that will deplete our reserves.  
>>  I want to buy a Ferrari but I do not have enough money to buy a Ferrari.  I'm one of your biggest fans.  Maybe Troy is bigger.  It is more of a principal thing whether or not where do we strike the balance?  We can buy and a half $1 billion worth of land.  So what does that mean?  Every year I struggle with this and I get the hate mail and it is coming.  I do not want to disparage anyone but I have the courage to say my conviction.  Thank you, Mr. chair.  
>>  Counsel in Robins?  
>>  -- Councilman Robins?  
>>  I did not want my house being burned down.  Did you say and did I hear you correctly where there is in a state tax that is controlling landfills?  They can be very healthy or revenues, sorry.  How healthy is it compared to the money that is needed for some of these landfill expansions and everything else?  How healthy are our reserves for the landfill?  
>>  You may recall there is a set of funds we bring to you every year for the five-year forecast.  You guys have to make up individual books on tax villages.  We do a five-year forecast so many more funds than that and we put them in the recommended budget but we do not present all of them to counsel.  The only present the ones that have pertinent issues.  The solid waste fund was one of them.  This fund is very carefully balanced at this point because of the future capital that is needed.  We are looking at now $38 million we are looking at 88.7 -- 38.7 million.  In the future after that five years after that there's going to be another so it will probably needed for the second cell.  We working on the staff between finance and public works together to figure out, what can we afford to do an extra make this work?  It is very closely balanced at this point.  
>>  What are our reserves looking like?  
>>  The reserves right now is $60 million.  However, in the forecast we go down to the lowest $1.2 million of reserves if you're counting for $7.5 million in contributions to the escrow account.  It is a lockup of money that the state requires so in four years with the balance that we have now with estimated growth of 6% which is a healthy growth rate of $1.2 million.  
>>  The fund that Ryan mentioned is a closer fund that the state requires.  You have enough money to close.  The picture is we are building that capacity that cell.  We have to build the first cell now.  In five – six years, we are going to have to do another cell next to it because you can only put so much.  You are building a pyramid and the trucks have to get to the top of the pyramid.  You are building the next cell next to it and then that gets to a certain point and you can start putting trap -- trash in both cells.  For brand-new cell like this is expensive on the front end and that is why we are dwindling down our reserves to pay for it.  After that it starts building up for future costs.  
>>  To sum it up, we are finally balanced and fine tune to pay for those that issuances knowing we're going to have another cell that needs to be constructed.  We have this Council approved the CPI +1 rate increase every year and the tipping fees to couple -- cover those.  The landfill is in good financial shape that we are set to construct the landfill cells.  There's not a lot of margins for cost.
>>  How much time, what is the lifespan on the first cell?  
>>  The total lifespan on the first cell and five years and after that typically we could probably get another 10 – 15 years out of those two cells combined.  
>>  What I was trying to get at David and Ben if there were any other room in those reserves since they were unrestricted from what I heard they are not.  I do not want to put you all in a position.  I want to support my colleagues to look at all of the options here.  I also don't want to pull a pin on a grenade.  
>>  The landfill does make money.  It is there to serve the citizens of Volusia County for garbage needs.  Like any enterprise fund likely utility, water, sewer or the landfill, we are not trying to generate a ton of reserves.  If we have reserves it is there for a reason for capital expansion and things like that.  His primary role is to make sure -- 
>>  That is one of the reasons why they are often municipal or county owned.  In order to have a landfill it takes on a household garbage, you have to have a certain amount of money to be able to close it.  A lot of companies do not want to do that.  But is tens of millions of dollars that have to be there because we have to close and we have to be able to close the landfill by order of the DEP.  Of course it will eventually be closed just because it will be filled out.  That is something that is required and a lot of the times we look at it in which we can do something to it but we can't.  That's why the government on the landfill.  
>>  It is a requirement of our program.  Where your Flagler or Palm Coast where you are paying above normal fees to bring the garbage here or send it out of state.  
>>  Vice Chair Reinhart?  
>>  With respect to that, you said the landfill is there to make money but remembering the more money we make from it, we are doing it for preparation for new cells.  And to close the previous one because of millions of dollars that it cost to close it.  It is not just a matter of we are close and you cannot put any more trash there's a lot of DEP restrictions that go into play.  Just for the mayor fact that preparedness can you explain to start a cell?  
>>  We are just wrapping up.  We are 95% complete on the stormwater project associated with all 200.  Yet have a stormwater system that collects the water that falls on the cell and runs off.  That was a 20 million project just to do that.  Now we have a nice flat piece of land 27270 acres with a stormwater system and everything is in place.  It is to construct the landfill cell which is a whole where you put the trash.  You come in and you dig out and you put the clay in the liner.  Everything to make sure the garbage juice for a lack of a better word does not get into the ground.  Then yet the construct the system which collects that water and since it to a treatment plant or facility which you have to construct as well.  Including the pond and to store it.  You have to construct the gas.  
>>  That was my next question do we do anything with extraction of the gas?  
>>  Yes.  We are working on plans to convert that into natural gas.  We have a contractor that is working to that plan now.  They will turn it into natural gas and it will be in a gas line we will get paid and that would be revenue for us wants to come online.  All of the system has to be constructed.  There is also this is the big concern that we live in right now.  The current cell has a certain amount of air space where we can put garbage and it is projected up to 2027.  We want to make sure that cell is still working because it has to be a little bit of overlap.  
>>  Thank you.  I appreciate that.  The next question going back to forever real quick.  And just so clarity because you mentioned before there are some forever projects that we have that we are going to have to actually bond?  
>>  Yes.
>>  If you reduce the millage rate that means bonding that much more?  
>>  Yes, sir.  So for example a project that is coming will expand our allocation this year in the reserves and we will need additional dollars.  
>>  Thank you.  Thank you, chair.
>>  Councilman Dempsey?  
>>  If you can just go back up?  Where are we now statewide for acquisitions for Volusia forever?  For local acquisition we have state, federal and local partners.  Apples to apples we are looking at county governments and comparing ourselves.  I am competitive and we were including the small acquisition programs and we have done that.  We are still pretty significant number behind Hillsborough County.  The number two of the 37%.  We were 36 when we started this year.  37% of the county is preserved.  
>>  That is my next question, what is our goal?  It is a conceptual rule of thumb among practitioners.  Every acre you develop you should preserve.  
>>  Once acquisitions are completed and in the works what with the number be then?  38%?  
>>  We just did the calculation on the a list.  We buy all the properties on the A-list it would be 39%.  
>>  7000 acres is a percentage.  
>>  Your marching orders to get 50% is that directed by -- 
>>  I think there was a conversation we had earlier on with this counsel because it was being asked.  I asked some prominent respected conservation in Florida, how would you answer this question?  And they all came back with a 1/1 and Clay Henderson did nice grasp.  These are the areas that you should concentrate on.  
>>  The thing that is kind of concerning is I talked to some realtors recently and they said is getting more and more difficult and Volusia County to find acreage for farmers specifically.  Those farmers are looking for farmland and now competing with the county.  
>>  I stated that.  What that does is it protects production low intensity production.  We think that actually will provide a lower entry point for young farmers and ranchers were looking for land that has to say -- they in production.  It is number one protecting the food supply by lowering the bar.  Property in a coastal county is expensive.  That is all I have.  
>>  That is it on comments from the Council.  
>>  I am in support of what is proposed but I am in favor of rollback.  I do think maybe next year we should have conversation about 50% goal line.  Do we really have to be number one in the state on conservation?  Maybe next year to rollback are other ways of cutting back on Volusia forever?  I am and agree with you that we need to make cuts.  But it sounds like there's pretty good home runs and works and I don't want to do anything that is going to mess that up.  I am in agreement with you.  We need to cut back Volusia forever at some point.  
>>  Councilman Johansson?  
>>  As far as I am concerned the property rights I have the right if I own property to sell it to everyone.  I am not forced to sell it to the county.  If somebody wants to buy my property for growing something, it is probably a higher price than what Brad had to pay for it.  And so is it that my option to sell it to whoever I want?  We have not bought land in a while.  If there are properties out there that people want to buy for agriculture and if I was that guy and I would say you know you're trying to send -- sell it to the county.  Maybe not for development.  I have a feeling that the people that are interested because I know one or two are interested in preserving the land they live on and not having it turn into a land developed with subdivisions.  I am not opposed to making sure there is land available for agriculture or whatever.  But I still think the person that owns land have the right to do what they want with it and that includes bargaining with the county to conserve it and preserve it.  Obviously, it gives them the availability of protecting their land and using it to a limited agriculture themselves.  I think it is competition and I think it is healthy.  
>>  Just in response to that, and what point enough is enough?  How much do we want to be owned by the citizens?  
>>  50% /50% and we never argued that.  I am willing to have the conversation because I never argued that point.  
>>  I don't know if that is too much or not.  
>>  Anybody else or comments?  Any other proposals?  Ben, I will turn it back to you.  
>>  Since there has been some discussion about alternative rates there is a possibility that we need to recalculate the total budget and rewrite the millage ordinance.  It is a little bit different what I am doing here.  I'm not going to answer the official one.  Then I would have to do the official one.  Does anybody want to make a motion for something that is not on the screen?  We can go back and amend the resolution to adopted the way the state requires us to.  So I am seeking anything that is not on the screen right now.  
>>  Anything that changes the millage rate.  
>>  Chairman I am a little perplexed by his comments because we just had a lengthy this question and there was no motion to change anything.  What you have in front of you -- 
>>  If we go down this road and something is different I have to redo the whole thing and I don't want to waste anybody's what time.  I am appreciative of that.  I heard a couple of things about possibilities but that I felt like those individuals pulled back on it when they heard the other comments.  I think what is in front of us we are ready to hear you rip it out.  
>>  I do know based off of one comment that I believe that he will not vote in favor of the fire millage.  Did I understand that correctly?  
>>  If it is not a separate vote, I am going to be voting for this because it is in this one.  We are doing one who vote.  If it was separate like it was last time it would be a different story.  There has been no movement to separate.  
>>  That being said, I know the trend manual said one thing so I am going to take a conservative approach and asked for the millage to be separate from all dependent special districts.  So be two votes on villages.  I will read and to record the first one which is the general fund and that is the primary operating millage.  That is section 1 a and 2B.  For countywide taxing authority Volusia County is 6.8144 meals which is greater than the aggregate rollback rate of 6.6266 mills by 2.83%.  That is not a voting rate that is just what is required to be in a resolution by trim.  That is saying all the stuff you're doing together is 2.83% above rollback.  Some of them are rollback and some them are flat rate.  We will vote for the fiscal year 2025 – 26 operating millage rate for countywide taxing authority Volusia County general fund is 3.2007 mills which is greater than rollback rate of 3.0464 meals by 5.06%.  
>>  Motion to approve?  We have a motion to approve is there a second?  
>>  Motion to approve the general fund?  
>>  Second.  
>>  Second by Councilman Kent and second by Vice Chair Reinhart.  All in favor say, aye.
>>  Aye.
>>  Any opposed?  
>>  Fiscal year by five – 26 millage rate for the county taxing authority of Volusia County law enforcement fund is 1.5994 meals which is greater than rollback rate of 1.5182 mills by 5.35%.  Physical year 2025 – 26 for the taxing authority of Volusia County library fund is rollback rate of 0.3697 mills through the fiscal year 2025 – 26 operating millage rate for the countywide taxing authority Volusia forever fund is 0.2000 mills which is greater than rollback rate of 0.1901 mills by 5.21%.  The fiscal year 2025 – 26 millage rate for countywide taxing authority Volusia echo fund is 0.200 mills.  Which is greater than rollback rate of 0.01901 mills by 5.21%.  The fiscal year 2025 – 26 operating millage rate for the taxing authority mosquito control fund is rollback rate of 0.1573 mills.  The fiscal year 2025 – 26 operating millage rate for the taxing authority report inlet is rollback rate of 0.0660 mills.  The fiscal year 2025 – 26 operating millage rate for the taxing authority municipal service District fund is 1.6956 mills which is greater than rollback rate of 1.5996 mills by 6.00% free of fiscal year 2025 – 26 operating millage rate for the taxing authority silver sand at the beach service District is the rollback rate of 0.0099 mills.  The fiscal year 2025 – 26 operating millage rate for the taxing authority fire rescue District fund is the rollback rate of 3.6236 mills.  
>>  Is there a motion to approve those millage rates?  
>>  Move for approval.
>>  Councilman Kent make a motion to approve.  Is there a second?  
>>  Second.
>>  second by Vice Chair Reinhart.  Questions?  All in favor say aye.
>>  Aye.
>>  Any opposed?  
>>  The fiscal year 2025 – 26 operating budget is $1,419,238,478.  The nonoperating budget is $331,458,198.  
>>  We have a motion to approve the budget.
>>  Motion to approve.
>>  Second.
>>  Motion to approve by Vice Chair Reinhart and second was by Troy Kent.  All in favor say aye.
>>  Aye.
>>  Any opposed?  The budget is approved.  
>>  Thank you.  
>>  Mr. Chairman I want to thanks -- thank staff for being here.  
>>  What time is our meeting over?  9:00?  I always forget if it is 9:00 or 9:30.  We will go back to item 3 shipping container.  
>>  Good evening Carol McFarland.  Planning and development services director.  Item 3, you have seen before area it has been a minute and this is the second reading.  It went through -- 
>>  We are having a hard time hearing you.  It is all of those directors.  We cannot hear up here.  If you can keep it down in the back?  Thank you.  Go ahead.  
>>  We talked about this March 4, 2025 meeting.  There was no public participation but there was a discussion with counsel and changes that was made to the ordinance.  We're bringing ordinance 2025 – 20 back to you.  The new ordinance allows shipping containers as accessory use and agricultural, rural and industrial classifications as well as modified agriculture.  Some of the rules governing the ordinance is no building permit is required.  That was heard loud and clear at the March meeting.  And to allow up to two containers on 1 acre +1 container per additional 5 acres for a maximum of six.  Agricultural use and industrial parcels have no limit.  General requirements and I do not want to spend too much time on these.  I will go through them very quickly.  Shipping containers are for storage uses only and not to be inhabited.  You cannot have utilities and placement is not allowed in parking areas, sidewalks, landscape buffers etc. The containers have to be maintained in good condition.  There are requirements for locating the shipping containers.  They cannot be visible from the street with the exception of industrial properties.  Screening cannot be used or 6 feet tall fence or a opaque landscaping.  The code shows that it is prohibited a vacant property for agricultural uses and industrial properties.  We did receive one email of the public recently.  If you want to weaken talk about that.  The ordinance also says that the principal setbacks and non-residential zoning classifications apply.  But in the residential agricultural zoning there are setbacks.  We do want to talk a little bit about the difference between accessory setbacks.  The zoning classification you see in this chart are the zoning classifications for forestry resource and all of the agricultural zoning as well as the two rural RA and RR.  The way the zoning and shipping container ordinances right now that means any of those properties can be 5 feet away from neighboring property lines if we were to keep it as setbacks for principal structure, can be what you see in the chart on the screen.  Which is generally around 50 feet or 25 feet per side yards and 50 – 40 feet for rear yards.  We did take a look at properties in green on the map are the ones that are in the zoning classifications that we are allowing shipping containers.  The red are urban land uses that directly abuts the agricultural land uses.  Meaning when you can have smaller lot sizes one fourth acre or less, they can be abutting agricultural uses which would allow 5 foot setback to the property lines onto these much smaller plots.  The analysis shows that 3800 parcels are in that directly abutting classification.  Out of the 3800 parcels 3000 + were single-family residences.  Again that is in those urban zoning parcels that are abutting agricultural there are about 3000 homes.  You guys are policymakers and I am just here to share information.  Policies decisions are 100% up to you.  If you do want to move forward with that line of thought there is alternative liquids on the slide.  With that, we do recommend approval of the ordinance.  I am here for discussion and questions.  
>>  A couple of questions.  What is the setback for this standard structures?  
>>  As long as it is below 500 feet² it will be 5 feet on the side and the rear.  
>>  500 feet² that would be 25?  That was how much?  
>>  The setback is 5 feet to the side and the rear.  So if a shed is more than 500 feet², it would meet the principal setbacks which was the 50 and the 40 feet.  
>>  The shipping container for the standard small ones let's do 8 x 20.  Let's do 8 x 44 the big ones and that is 320.  Either way it would still be smaller than the 500.  If you allowed up to 500 feet, why what you be allowed to something that is less?  
>>  That is the policy question that is in front of you.  I just wanted to make sure you have all of the information when we talk about principal versus accessory that you guys understand what numbers we are talking about when we talk about accessory such as structures setbacks.  
>>  It is still a glorified shed.  You cannot use them for livable structures.  We are asking that they are in a good physical appearance and they cannot be seen.  
>>  They can be seen from abutting properties.  
>>  What happens if there is a smaller lot?  Like one fourth acre lot 50 x 100?  How would they meet the setbacks for that?  
>>  The lowest lot size where shipping containers are allowed is 1 acre.  If you are below the 1 acre, you would not be able to have a shipping container.  
>>  I think Danny was asking if it was a legal nonconforming 1 acre lot, they will be permitted because it is allowed by right, correct?  If it is a legal lot of record and -- [INDISCERNIBLE].  
>>  Yes, that is correct.  
>>  I would kind of like to hear my colleagues have to say.  The staff may disagree.  In these rural and even transitional, I don't know if the numbers can be deceptive a little bit.  We do not have high density urban up against agricultural in a locked of areas.  You will see in the zoning maps there is urban, transitional, rural.  Transitional is the buffer.  How far do we want to go with this?  I think we agree to simplify things.  I know I talked to staff today little bit about it.  If you're going to put it in the back, keep the setback but keep a little bit of buffer.  But then again we are adding to it.  I am glad where this is headed.  I'm glad we got this far.  How far do we want to go?  
>>  Councilman Dempsey?  
>>  I would like to know the reasoning for not having any utilities to the shipping containers?  What I would like to see is the ability to put a dehumidifier because in the summertime they get very hot and this ceiling captures moisture.  Then there is mildew and accelerates rust.  It is there a compelling reason why we should allow these?  We do not want people living in them but to preserve the contents, I would like to be able to have some sort of electricity for dehumidification.  
>>  So when ordinance talk about no electricity, it is talking about running electrical permanently to the structure.  You can use an extension cord if you needed to.  Other aspect if that is turning the shipping container into something that you can run electricity.  You can do that if you have a shipping container and you want to turn it into something else, people do that all of the time.  People turning shipping containers into homes at that point you're using the shipping container more as materials.  It is the two things is our you converting it to electricity or using an electrical cord?  
>>  On page 4 to put in there that people can run a power cord for purposes of the human fine contents.  I don't want people living in it obviously but I think it is a real need in the state to have dehumidifiers.  
>>  Is that to clarify that an extension is allowed?  Do you want permanent electrical?  
>>  Permanent electrical will be my preference.  
>>  That would require a permit any electrical work does require a permit.  It would be a permit for a shipping container but electricity is something that we permit.  
>>  I will wait to see what these guys recommend.  Either way, I would like to have some sort of hookup for the dehumidifiers.  However we cross that line.
>>  Councilman Kent?  
>>  Is this where you are referred to with 5 feet off the property line?  Can you elaborate a little bit on that?  A shipping container 5 feet off of someone's property line with this be allowed within North Peninsula?  
>>  It would.  
>>  I am sorry to interrupt you but would you also mentioned how many thousands of homes where this can be placed?  
>>  The way this ordinance is crafted for counsel is to provide a very streamlined method for people to use.  These industrial containers for storage and they are very inexpensive because they are in industrial product that is available out on the market.  We made it so there are no permitting requirements for them in this ordinance.  But they do look like an industrial container.  We do find through our mapping exercises that we have 3000 small residential lots that about properties that have one of the designations of that are covered in this ordinance.  Can you look to the previous screen?  Thank you.  I know these are generally considered agricultural and rural zone districts.  They happen to a but residentially zoned properties.  3800 cases we have lots where they abut it.  In North Ormond and plantation Bay, you would be surprised to find remnant A1 and 82 properties surrounded by those residential communities.  That exists throughout the county.  In hindsight so to speak when I spoke with Carol, I felt a need to raise concern by putting these type of containers 5 feet off of a residential lot might not be the best neighborly approach.  Instead suggested that you be considering the principal setback requirements area that is what the strikethrough language would achieve on page 3 – seven in your packet as part of your ordinance.  Frankly if it wasn't for the 3800 homes or 3000 homes already built, I would not have raised the issue.  But it is important to recognize that we do have residential subdivisions.  Urban versus suburban is a fine line for us in Volusia County.  I just want to make sure we have good neighbor relations out there.  
>>  Thank you.  I appreciate that.  The way this is presented for us today the strikethrough the containers must meet principal setbacks is that correct?  
>>  That would be an amendment that needs to be adopted by counsel.  
>>  Counsel hearing that over 3000 residential homes could be subject to having one of these within 5 feet of the property line, I am not going to dare to try to speak for you.  I do not want that next to my house.  5 feet off of the property line?  I can support this if we made an amendment to this item to make sure the containers must meet the principal structure setback.  It is a slippery slope going down allowing this 5 feet off the property line.  That is my concern.  
>>  Councilman Johansson?  
>>  If you have agricultural property this can be done without a permit right now, right?  
>>  If you're talking about your agriculture classified property from property preserve, absolutely.
>>  How many residential homes are next to properties like that where I can put a container within 5 feet?  
>>  A surprising amount because a lot of properties can get an agricultural classification.  If you have agricultural classification you are not subject to a 5 foot setback.  
>>  That is what I mean.  Mr. Kent scenarios can happen in a lot of places in the county or city.  The other thing about the power to the container, no pun intended but we are in the weeds here.  Those people that have these that brings hanging lights out there, how many people put stuff in their garage and put it out for Christmas lights and Halloween decorations and stuff like that?  I don't think this is anything that Carol and code enforcement are going to run out and say they have a dehumidifier.  Just let it go and let people be who they are on their property.  And not micromanage how many lightbulbs and what amps the permit or temporary power can be on these things.
>>  The utility restriction is a hookup that require the MVPs.  In that sense the purpose of the shipping containers is easy storage.  You start running electric, we should treat those as a regular accessory structure.  
>>  I get it.  Just let them put them on their and the setbacks and let people be and live their life on their property.
>>  If I can just add Mr. Johansson, the state of Florida have very protective statutes for bona fide agricultural properties as determined by the property appraiser.  I just want to clarify that is different than agricultural zoning which is what is in the ordinance.  
>>  Okay.  Just on both of those items setbacks and electricity, I live in a rural area and I can't imagine someone sitting one on the property line and they could apparently.  I can't imagine 5 feet from your property line.  What can you do with it?  I would rather see a 15 – 25 foot where you can at least plant a hedge.  If you put a hedge it is going to be 15 feet wide and five years anyway or 10 years.  Because you can really doesn't -- I think it would be better to be a good neighbor for what we are doing here.  I would like to see a little bit more setback than 5 feet.  Electricity, I think that should be approved.  I did not think about a dehumidifier.  I would use 12 store grain in and we often in the wintertime and every night we feed and light we need a light to go in and see where the feed is or the hay or whatever.  You can run an extension cord.  Even an agricultural community, you are going to have somebody that doesn't like you complains and say Don has electricity.  
>>  The running of utilities is the permanent installation.  
>>  Why not have permanent electricity?  
>>  If you have to get a permit for electricity fine.  Let's not that you can't do it.  
>>  That is a decision of this counsel.  
>>  You can call the power companies as well and they have an agricultural program for what you are saying.  They will run you up to a 200 amp service to an agriculture building.  That is exempt from a lot of duplication of laws in other cases.  I have a contact for that person as well if you need it.  
>>  It is the will of the Council we can remove that restriction of connection to electricity and keep all of the rest.  That keeps it from being inhabitable.  You can't run water, sewer, AC but you can run electricity.  
>>  I am going to call for a motion.  That is where I am heading.  
>>  Motion to approve as stated with being able to add permitted electrical with the proper electrical permits.  And setbacks as stated.  
>>  When he said setback as stated you are not talking about change it to the portable Democrat principal setbacks?  Next steps would it says.  
>>  Does that satisfy what we are talking about, Suzanne?  Okay, thank you.  
>>  Which is what 50 feet?  
>>  It depends on his own district.  If you go on the previous slide, you will see it ranges from 15 feet on the far right side of the screen – 50 feet on the far left side for setbacks which are generally where they are going to apply.  And then the rear yard setbacks are on the bottom line.  
>>  Okay.  Is everybody good with 50 feet?  Michael?  
>>  At some point when you have your promotion, I would like Carol to read again what is being added.  Before the vote.  
>>  Councilman Dempsey?  
>>  What if we have a scenario where it is 1/1 is it 50 feet are we going to go to 5 feet?  I get what you have a residential lot next to an agricultural but if we go to A1 I do not see that much of a setback.  
>>  The real question I think, how many of these properties qualified there are next to a residential quarter acre lot in that setting?  
>>  3800.  
>>  It is more than we thought.  
>>  Would you be willing to have any increase setback?  I think 50 feet is too much.  
>>  A flat 15 across-the-board?  
>>  15 works for me.  
>>  Motion amended to 15.  I am not the farmer.  You guys are the farmers.  I just want to make a motion.  
>>  Setback 15 feet, permanent electricity with required permits.  
>>  The language will now read on page 3 – seven line number one containers must be principal structure setbacks and nonresidential zoning and 15 foot setbacks in residential and agricultural zones.  That is what I am hearing from County Counsel.  
>>  With bona fide agriculture still being exempt.  
>>  I think that is the compromise.  We have one member of the public who would like to speak on this.  I am going to add one other thing.  We have had an everybody have seen it, we had a previous council member asked to include RA.  What is RA?  
>>  Is rural agricultural estate.  
>>  Okay.  
>>  I believe the request was to allow it without a principal structure.  Is that correct, Carol?  
>>  It is to allow property tax exemption does not have a principal structure.  This ordinance is written without bona fide agricultural.  You cannot have another vacant property.  
>>  What I was going to suggest having talked about this with staff there's probably a way to get there.  Let's do what we have here today and then we can come back and deal with that at another time.  I just wanted to bring it up because I told him that I would.  Not dropping the idea but it tends to muddy the water.  I just want to get it done what we agreed on.  
>>  That way it doesn't cause an issue where we have to bring it back.  If counsel wants to vote, we can bring that back.  
>>  But not right now.  We are now voting on that.  It is for setback and permanent electricity.  Any other questions on that?  Or comments?  All in favor say aye?  
>>  Do you want us to read?  
>>  No, I do not want you to read anything yet.  I forgot we had a member of the public.  John Nicholson?  Yes, you can read.  
>>  As I understand the motions that we have gotten from counsel or to change page 4 of seven of the ordinance line 13 utility restrictions containers shall not be connected to crossing out electric but leaving water, sewer, air conditioning and other utilities.  Second change was page 5 of seven online one.  It says setbacks and nonresidential zoning and 15 foot setbacks in residential and agricultural zoning.  Crossing out accessory structure and replacing it with 15 feet.  
>>  J -- Jake Johansson?  
>>  I don't know what other utilities mean but what if somebody, we have storage units that are air-conditioned or temperature controlled and here we have storage units.  What if Chair Brower needs to stay below 70° why can't we do air-conditioned.  What is the reasoning other than one step closer to living in there?  
>>  I think that is the HVAC system.  Air conditioning is typically a part of the building.  It is a structure in the building at that point if you have an air-conditioned accessory structure.  
>>  So that is not air conditioning?  I am good.  Thank you.  
>>  I apologize.  On page 5 of seven line 1, it should say and 15 feet setbacks in residential and agricultural zoning side and rear plot lines.  Not including the front lines or setbacks.  
>>  To reiterate Don did before bona fide agriculture no setback.  All in favor say aye.
>>  Aye.
>>  Any opposed?  Passes 7/0.  Thank you Carol.  Item 7 is request to approve fiscal year 25 – 26 Medicaid cost share for hospital districts.  Which attorney is doing this one?  Motion to approve?  It is by Robins and the second is by Jake Johansson?  All in favor say aye.
>>  Aye.
>>  Any opposed?  We have one out so currently it is 6/0.  We will get Troy's vote when he comes back in.  That brings us to the final item of the night.  Item 8 written request to the administrative commission regarding the property appraisers budget.  
>>  Do you want me to speak on it?  
>>  I would like to hear a brief synopsis of what it is.  
>>  Chief financial officer, I have attached the letter or correspondence or whatever you want to call it.  It is a briefing format at the request of the administration commission.  They do not do this that often they did request that we submit it in the format that is attached.  In summary the arguments as mentioned or motion that the last meeting related to the budgeting for the building that has not yet been approved by counsel.  I have listed out in general the recalculation of this budget.  The amount that is approved by the state includes the budget amendment for the mapping project.  If you look at the original budget both the budget without a mapping project the one-time anomaly.  If you look at budget to budget to 12.7% increase from year to year.  The health insurance that is being paid for, for all family members which is being provided to county employees without to our knowledge recruiting challenges are retention challenges as well as the bonuses.  Those are arguments that are being made.  Next thank you.  
>>  Thank you.  Any questions?  
>>  Just one comment before we vote.
>>  I would normally do this but since Mr. Bartlett took the opportunity of commenting on the newspaper I think his comments I don't know what -- [INDISCERNIBLE].  People are suffering and I am tired of higher taxes and runaway Bearcats raising the taxes.  That is why I did it.  
>>  All in favor of this appeal say aye.
>>  Aye.
>>  Any opposed?  Passes 6/0 until Mr. Kent gets back in.
>>  Chair Brower can you clarify who made the motion and the second?  
>>  The motion was Robins in the second was Santiago.  Before we go to final public participation Troy do you have a vote on item number seven?  
>>  I am a yes.  
>>  And the property appraisers budget.
>>  Where we end how did it shake out?  
>>  Both of those votes are 7/0.  We have one member of the public for the night's final public participation.  John Nicholson?  
>>  John Nicholson Daytona Beach.  I have asked you to pass and I'm going to ask you again consider what was brought up this evening.  That you will point somebody on the main street.  You have one for 20 years.  We got nine buildings out of it and you are there.  You got off the board and not a single building have been built on beachside.  Main Street CRA is the problem.  Get involved.  Secondly, the salaries 35 years ago I asked Suzanne who was the CRA director for a budget and they gave me one sheet of paper.  It was 50 items.  The first item was the deck for the Marriott.  All of the rest of the items worth her salary.  We do that for South Atlantic, we do that for the blue road.  Almost everything on their budgets and salary.  I realize that the Chisholm when he did that Main Street is two times the cost of other CRA's.  If we have to pay into his salary let's say blue road pay 5000 the salary and Main Street pays 50,000 this is not fair.  I'm asking you to pay attention to what the bottom line is.  Your reserve, do you realize for every 1% on your reserve you are at 27%?  When I was a kid it was 2%.  Jake when he was a kid it was and a half of a percent.  I remember going up from 2% up to 5% 10%, 15% and I was shocked just the other day when somebody said 20% for the reserve.  27% is huge.  What do you actually need 27% for?  If you reduce that by 1% to 26% that would be $20 million.  This is what we decided 27% for everybody then you are at $400 million.  If you go down just by 1% that is $4 million.  That is a good way of gaining the money that you're looking for.  They are still getting their reserves but not as much.  Take a look at that.  Thank you.  
>>  Thank you.  That concludes public comments.  We will go to closing comments from the County manager.  
>>  First off, we would have to research the issue on the CRA.  I don't believe this counsel has ability to appoint to their board.  I may be wrong so we are going to research that.  We do look at like a said they have to file a report but our level is looking at it from a level of major it fits the criteria of the ordinance.  We do not get down to what they pay anything for.  I just wanted to point that out.  We said something and I just wanted to make a clarification if we were correct.  There is no appeal for the tax collector.  We were accurate and that.  However, uniquely we got a letter saying that they had approved this budget.  But at the end of the letter, they do offer a comment period if you want to take it up or not.  It is up to this counsel.  Basically they are offering if you would like to comment on it, we can do that.  I wanted to be directed by you guys.  Lastly, I want to publicly thank Ryan and all of the department heads and division heads that make the budget possible.  It is a team effort every year.  I am proud of what we were able to put together.  I want to think this counsel working their way through it like we have in the last two meetings.  Like Troy said the comments are good and they are good for the public to hear us dive into those things.  And then they can learn a lot through it things like talking about the vehicles and vehicle replacement program.  That is important.  We used to do a mini budget but I think I got a little redundant.  I am happy we delved into the things we did today.  I feel really good going forward and I look forward to starting it off again in January goal setting and see where we go.  Lastly, I will say in my conversations with the Constitution, they all agreed and met with me and talk to me.  They all agreed that we have been working on a system of all of the finance people meeting and we are going to elevate that this coming year.  I will meet with those constitutional officers and much in the same way I do with you guys.  Once we get the direction from you where we are going, we will be at a higher level to talk about that so to give more opportunity earlier in the process for them to tailor the budget based on what they are hearing that we are doing.  
>>  Councilman Santiago?  
>>  I move that we move and write a similar letter for the tax office to send to the revenue department.  What department was it?  
>>  Division of revenue.
>>  I will restate that.  I move that we write a similar letter as we did for the property appraisers for the tax collectors to the state.  
>>  Is there a second?  
>>  Dated what was the grounds?  
>>  Bonuses was one of them.  Also additional increase in budget year-over-year.  
>>  Maybe I misunderstood it.  Did they approve the budget in that letter submitted?  
>>  They did.  
>>  Did it include those bonuses.
>>  As far as I know.  
>>  Yes.  
>>  Health insurance also.  
>>  Health insurance bonus also as we talk about tax collector, it is the amount of money that he gives back basically is greatly reduced showing the increase of expenditures.  So 10 – four.  10 million – 4 million.  We will craft a letter if that is the desire of the Council.  
>>  Based on this letter do you think they have an appetite that it is going to be valid.  What do you think or what is your thoughts on coming back and saying it is not valid?  
>>  I don't know.  We don't know unless we ask.  But the letter that they sent to us saying you have this opportunity, if you are concerned with the budget approval please notify us.  That is all we are exercising.  
>>  We would have to do it to all the constitutional's.
>>  Not necessarily.  Others are not doing that.  
>>  We have a motion to send that similar letter.  I am wondering.
>>  I think it has a chance of success.  Therefore keeping taxes down which we have.  We are not and scrutinize as some other counties.  I think they would or think there is a chance they would look at it favorably.
>>  We just did the same thing we voted on.  It is the same topics.  If we stand by the first one a minute ago why will we do it with this one?  It is the same behavior.  Both of them are that way.  You just have to appeal it and this is the process to appeal it.  
>>  I want to clarify it is not an appeal.  They offer a comment.  We don't know the purpose.  They just want to see if counties or what they are experiencing it is new to us that they added this on there.  
>>  This is a time to make the noise.  If we feel the system is broken which I articulated several times that it is unless you make noise no one is going to move.  
>>  Councilman Dempsey?  
>>  I just met with will end his staff yesterday.  I was pretty impressed with their operation.  I think they gave me the comparisons between themselves and Brevard County.  It is pretty much a similar settlement and a similar set up.  I did not see any concerns with them from the meeting that I had.  
>>  I think we ran it for almost $10 million less.  And I don't want to make this political for me.  This is fiscal responsibility.  The commentary during that time when amendment 10 past, I am going to keep this the same.  I am want to run lean and mean and similar to what you have here.  Will but what has happened here is continuously being chipped away.  The $10 million is almost gone.  The question is, is it responsible for him to give free health insurance to all family members?  Is a responsible for him to give bonuses?  I am not talking about running the operation.  I have no criticism of that and I have no knowledge.  I am talking about is a responsible as a tax collector to be giving away these additional benefits when there is not a shortage of staffing?  If you had problem recruiting people for your law firm you would raise your salary, do a start up bonus and things like that.  But if you don't, you're not going to be doing these things in the private sector.  We should not allow it in the public and that is my point.  That is my only reason.  
>>  Before I call on Jake, with this letter come back to Council for approval?  Would it just go?  
>>  I believe the timeframe is by September 25 and he is going to concern -- check on that.  
>>  They have to make the final adjudication.  They requested all of the comments be submitted by the 25th.  
>>  Thank you.  Councilman Johansson?  
>>  I feel the tension between everybody here.  I think the most important thing here is that we feel a little disenfranchised that we don't have a say in a budget that we are accountable for.  It is very clear.  You get 30 people and you will to roll back and we see where we could make little adjustments.  Those budgets are not for us to deal with.  The first thing we want to do is not micromanage but manage those budgets a little bit.  I wish and I hope that they resend that letter and it is a clear sign that we want to be a little more inclusive or included into their budget before they put it in.  Even though they have no obligations to.  It is like the chairman was talking about shipping containers.  I would hope you would be a good neighbor.  I hope you will be a good constitutional officer.  But as I have told others regarding other things, I do not like the nuclear option right away.  
>>  No disrespect but we haven't had a second.  We are in debate.  
>>  Why did you second it?  I am messing with you.  
>>  I would like to maybe and Don had a sit down and I have had a sit down with Will but not to the extent that Don did.  We chat with these guys and talk to the sheriff all of the time.  I think we need to open up more of a relationship with these guys so the stuff isn't dropped on us and we have no choice.  Maybe George can talk to the constitutional's and tell them maybe they can put a turn on their budget.  They have already submitted it.  Maybe we can ask them or give them an expectation of what we need and then have them tried to meet that need.  But if we do not give them something to aim for and why then they are going to do this.  I also have a problem with our staff not getting all the things that other staffs are.  These people don't get the opportunity to talk to us.  George is responsible for every department head budget here.  But every department head is not here tonight to answer question that my questions on their money.  They are not the whole to the public as we are.  I think it is important that and I know the sheriff department financial guy was here in the first meeting.  I talked to the sheriff after the first meeting so I just think we get them all here and if they do not come that is when we start going to it.  
>>  Councilman Robins?  
>>  These folks are elected officials as well.  They can't pay like we do that is something they have to own.  I don't know approaching it that way right now is the right thing.  The people who voted on amendment 10 if they knew the fine details are not.  We have to follow that and respect whether we like it or not.  Can you be tweaked now?  If you think of tweaks we need to put the legislator or before the delegation, we can send up a list.  Guys can we separate all of these folks just like law enforcement?  Then they have the responsibilities and they have to answer to it.  Hey, guys can I get a copy of the budget?  Can I get a copy of your full budget before our budget hearings?  We went over this two years ago and then it quieted down.  Nobody wanted to go there.  I think our responsibilities to produce some of these budgets.  Whether or not we get them, I don't know.  It is not a good position and not a good feeling.  But we do have to respect the state statute.  
>>  Councilman Santiago?  
>>  I think we are respecting the statue.  They sent it.  If they did not want feedback, why did they put it in the letter?  It has never happened before from what I heard.  Have never inserted a comment like that to reply.  We are not charting new territory.  We are not violating state law.  They knew they -- we were going to talk about it today.  And Jake to your point, do not want to put words in your mouth but the two ladies and the sheriff had a representative here earlier.  They are not here and they knew we were going to talk about this.  What are they saying to you and to saying to us?  I don't care what you do.  I am making my own words.  I know I seem animated and passionate about this because I think you said campaigning.  You think they are talking about the budgets and people are asking how much you are charging?  It does not come up.  It talks about the service you are going to provide.  It is a good service and I had no problem with the service level.  No issue at all.  I have problems with spending additional monies.  That service level is here right now.  Now is looking to spend these bonus dollars and these additional fees for health insurance.  This is going to run rampant for George with his staff and the pressure that we are going to get, we have to take a stance.  It is not to be adversarial.  Additional point I made earlier as we need to send a message to the state that this system is broken.  If they owned their budgets really truly, I would not be bringing this up.  Let people see it.  But we own their budget public.  I do not want to put this counsel in a difficult position.  We are in the big boy seats and we have to make tough decisions sometimes.  They are not popular in many of us know that.  I would love to be able to break bread with these guys afterwards and understand this is where I believe on this and we are getting enough pressure tax wise that this is more of a statement to the state than anything.  I will say it and leave it there.  We voted for the last one 7/0.  I would be perplexed if we did not vote for this one quite honestly.  It is the exact same thing.  
>>  Councilman Kent?  
>>  Councilman Johansson to me maybe the comment of the night was when you mentioned what our employees are going to be thinking because they don't get the free healthcare number one that no payment at all.  Hours are paying for it.  They have the skin in the game and their families getting it as well that is not lost on me.  It is not lost on a very smart employees either.  It is a really healthy discussion.  David is courageous to bring it up.  And I will say, I do not put the sheriff in that category because his is on the tax bill.  He owns it.  The others are not.  Tonight, we have the clerk of the court, supervisor of elections right here.  From what I understood they are not doing without the constitutional's are doing.  With our property appraiser it was a 7/0 vote.  I have to tell you I am a fan of Will Roberts.  I met with him right after I got elected.  He invited me to come to his office and I did.  I think he is a good man.  I just think David I don't know how I could vote for this letter to be sent for the property appraiser and the tax collector is doing the same thing.  And also to send a message to will Roberts and let him know, I think you are a great man.  But this is in my opinion this is fair asking the question.  Take a look at this.  
>>  Councilman Dempsey?  
>>  I agree with you.  I don't know if will reach out to you guys but he reached out to me since the last meeting.  He said I want to make sure this is all clear.  It must've been five people in that meeting and he isolated all out and explain to me what he did.  I pacified my curiosity on how he is doing comparatively speaking.  In Brevard he is doing a much better job.  As far as and I do not want to put you in a bad spot George.  I have always been told by my dad that you always want to make sure your staff is the highest paid in the community.  Only because you do not want them constantly looking to go somewhere else.  I think it is a good business practice.  I know on – that's a lot of builders and they have to pay more than everybody else is paying to keep.  To get people that are good and you have to have incentives to keep people.  Merit-based, I agree with that.  If that means giving them better insurance to keep quality employees and not having to a constant rotation of people going to the adjoining county because they are going to make one dollar more an hour.  I don't know if that is a good environment either.  That is why I'm against the letter on this one.  Just because of the meeting I had with him and just those two things do not offend me that much.  
>>  Did you discuss his attrition rate?  
>>  It has gotten better in the last couple of years.
>>  That is a great case.  And he did not did bonuses in the past.  You do those things.  I agree.  Like Kent said, he had the issue of hiring but had issues retaining deputies.  I know for a fact that the property appraiser and the tax collector do not have a retention problem.  
>>  I know a lot of deputies.  I can tell you they are very happy with their boss.  The sheriff take good care of them.  And that is the insurance for the families.  He treats them real well.  That is honorable because he has -- 
>>  You have seen the whole dog and pony show.  You have seen all of that and I think that is great because I met with him too.  He never mentioned that he over retention problem with staffing.  You are a private-sector guide.  If the private sector doesn't have a retention problem they are not going to start throwing bonuses to everyone.  Not because you did the job, bonuses to everyone.  Free healthcare for families to everyone.  That is a big distinction.  
>>  Merit-based is merit-based.  Yes, you're right.  
>>  I got you.  I'm question it because we vote on it and you are held accountable to it.  If he owned his own budget and it was clear and transparent to everyone and I do not have to go and speak in a public.  We just voted and it is probably already on social media for a tax increase.  They are not going to know all of these nuances that we are fighting because it will not get posted out there.  If I am going to take the blame for it, I want to fight to make sure things are being done the right way.  I know in the private sector if you do not have a retention problem, you do not give bonuses to everyone that you do not give free healthcare to everyone and their families.  You can still run a good job without that.  
>>  Chris called the role please.  The motion is to send a letter to the tax collector similar to what we sent on property appraiser.  
>>  Are you going to add the comments as well?  
>>  Yes, I think the issue was the bonuses and the healthcare and also highlight the fact of the constant increases or decreases the amount.  Just to shed light on that.  Let the state decide.  They may say, no.  They may say we have a problem here.  
>>  The attorneys are shaking their heads.  
>>  Mr. Robins.
>>  Yes.
>>  Santiago.
>>  Yes.
>>  Dempsey.
>>  No.
>>  Johansson.
>>  Yes.
>>  Kent.
>>  Yes.
>>  Vice Chair Reinhart.
>>  Yes Chair Brower.
>>  Yes.
>>  The motion passes 6/1.  We were on County manager's comments.  [LAUGHTER] 
County attorneys?  
>>  I sent you an email today.  In case you have not seen your email, we received a notice from Duke energy Florida over proposed project.  You're going through a permitting process with the Florida Department of Environmental Protection.  The County can call for an information session under the state process.  Our recommendation is we not do that after looking at it.  It is mostly a Lake County project.  It is 1.25 mile length expanding the line from the existing DeLand cross station that crosses St. Johns River along existing transmission right-of-way.  The proposed quarter does not have any residential development.  It is proposed transmission line that currently goes through the St. Johns River RV and boat ramp.  I want to bring to your attention that we did get the notice.  I am happy to take your notice if you see it differently.  That is it Mr. chair, thank you.  
>>  Can we get additional revenue?  We have a $10 million gap.  
>>  Do you need a vote on that?  
>>  No unless you want to make a motion to the contrary.  Thank you.  
>>  I do not see any motions.  Is that you?  Are you done?  Counsel comments?  Counsel in Robins?  -- Councilman Robins?  You do not have a vote Deputy County chair.  Councilman Santiago?  
>>  Are we in agreement to send for staff to send to the taxpayers explaining the tax increases and changes?  And they will bring it back to us?  
>>  In plain language?  
>>  Yes.  
>>  We will bring it back and you probably want to know the cost of doing that.  We normally do trim notices and it is about $250,000 so I just want to let you know.  
>>  Can we send it with the trim notices?  
>>  I do not believe that will go well with the guy who does that.  
>>  He is the one that males it out.  How about this, is there prohibition in state law that he can't?  
>>  I don't know.  We would have to look at that.  
>>  It is taxpayers monies that is selling -- sending the letters out.  
>>  We will ask him.  
>>  Asked him if we can include the letter of transparency.  It is a letter that we want to insert.  It is an additional one page.  Unless there is prohibition by the state law?  Thank you.  I am going to the next one.  We talked about CRA's today is there an agreement and I will use the term audit but staff can come up with their own phrase.  To find a way to audit CRA's to make sure they are in compliance.  If we find anything that is remotely out of compliance, what options do we have to hold them accountable?  Also, for future trim notices, want to make sure things that we cannot just any time and Brian you may be able to help if you're still around.  Anytime there is constitutional person that has any capital related projects buildings or things like that, that it is also separate in the millage or identified separately.  We normally pay for those out of reserve funds.  Again it is a transparency thing.  Brian, do you know where I am going with this?  
>>  All of the constitutional officers have a statutory requirement to break up their budgets and major categories.  Their budget request even the ones that are approved when we pulled up on the screen two weeks ago the capital was separated out.  However, if you want to fund that we reserves you would have to work with us to not put it in the official budget request and to work for the county budget process.  If you submitted in his budget -- 
>>  It will be in the trim notice.  I will use for example the Sheriff's office.  The Sheriff's office is one of them then it would be in their trim notice the amount they are assessing.  
>>  If there's a capital request that will be built into that millage.  There is no separate millage for the other one.  
>>  I understand.  That is what we are doing with transparency.  Thank you.  Remember we did with the billboard?  I met with staff today our legal team and they did some research.  I advocated for looking up resources that can get revenue.  There is president that staff is able to research and another County that created an ordinance that was tied to blight.  It was specific to billboards allowing for the opportunity to assess a fee.  If we can get a quick synopsis and get us a proposal?  
>>  The last time we got direction from County Counsel to look at a swap from regular billboards to digital.  The direction was 1/1.  We're going to look at the alternate option to see if there's any revenue or money generation that is not just a swap system.  We discovered Pasco County has a system where there swap down is one billboard to eight digital billboards.  There is a mechanism you can reduce the number yet to swap down through payment to a blight reduction fund.  Billboards are kind of seeing as not ecstatically pleasing.  They do not like them.  It is designed for limitation of billboards.  What ended up happening is that there is a mechanism where you do not have to swap down and instead you pay some amount.  That amount was tied to revenue generated.  What we discovered was that billboard companies love to open up their books to say how much they generate for each billboard.  That is proprietary information.  Pasco County has no takers for that particular blight reduction program with the existing billboard companies seem to do a swap down at a greater amount than open of their books.  
>>  I think that is where the flaw is in the ordinance.  There are opportunities for us to thread the needle differently.  Because the companies did not jump on it because they don't want to tell everyone what they were charging for their billboards.  What I would like from you all is give direction to staff to look at alternative to applied the ordinance for blight with a different funding mechanism that would allow for others to participate if that is okay?  
>>  You have to come up with a number.  What is a billboard worth in terms of the revenue or blight reduction can generate?  I'll be frank, it requires a study.  We can't just pull a number out of nowhere.  It has to be backed out -- from something.  It is an unconstitutional exaction that you are into territory.  We have to connect it or have a rush of proportionality in excess if you want to relate it to some monetary.  
>>  Blight is a storage cargo container.  
>>  Or a Ford truck parked next to a Dodge.  
>>  Were you taking the V8 before the meeting?  
>>  This is an opportunity to get to where you want to get to but bring in revenue.  That is all it is.  I just want to see if we are good to get staff to the next step to bring back proposals to us.  I am trying to find $10 million for the rollback issue.  
>>  Is anybody opposed?  
>>  I am against that.  I don't think we should be doing revenue sharing.  I think billboards serve a purpose especially on the interstates.  I don't think we should be putting our fingers and back pockets try to take money.  Let them do their business.  If you want to do a trade down from fixed to electronic that is fine.  
>>  That is the purpose of this.  
>>  It sounds like you are wanting to take part of the revenue.  
>>  No.  Yes and no.  Because of money comes to us it's coming from them.  The idea, it can be considered where they can participate in this program and they get more electronic items if they want to participate in this.  Versus a hard unit, I don't know the terminology is.  A fixed wooden tarp.  I don't know.  I don't know what it is called.  
>>  If you want have staff look into it, I do not want to spend money.  
>>  Let's see what they come back with.  
>>  If counsel want us to pursue this, I know you direct us to come back to you with revisions to billboards in the ordinances.  This would need to be part of that amendment if you're going to pursue it.  I think it is going to hold off on that ordinance change while we will work through that and return the information to you.
>>  I don't think there is a billboard crisis.  
>>  Councilman Robins?  
>>  David just so you know where I'm coming from and I'm a little hesitant.  I will compare this rolloff company, the number one thing that really is when the government came to me and said, you must pay a $20 per container.  I am doing the heavy lifting, I am paying workers comp, and paying fuel, I am turning the wrenches, a mother the trucks, I'm slipping the trash.  And here the government with no investment, no sweat equity in it are getting involved in capitalism.  I don't know if that scenario and that is where I would be stuck to support it.  How much are we going to start doing the same requirement for bookstores?  Or shoe stores?  I don't know.  At one point about staying out of the business man's life?  We will have to have a bigger discussion.  
>>  If staff can bring something back to us we will have that dance later.  That is all I have thank you.  
>>  Are you sure Councilman Santiago?  You sure you don't have one more?  [LAUGHTER] 
>>  Danny.you like when they call you a business partner?  I share the exact same sentiments.  I don't like making them have to pay a fee to engage in business.  I have nothing else to say.  
>>  Councilman Johansson?  
>>  Just so we're clear is there consensus?  [multiple Speakers] 
>>  We are on boards and committees and we are appointed by the chairman.  I seldom hear people report out what they said on our behalf at these meetings.  I think it is important, I go to new and I had to tell counsel about that.  Most of us know what goes on in TPO.  I think it is important that one of us and chairman you are and most of them that we report out what happens at the TPO and the Central Florida regional planning Council.  What happens at team Volusia and advisory committee.  I would like to make a motion to make our counsel meetings worse by reporting out when you have a report.  If we added it to the agenda maybe County manager then we know we are up for it and have to say something or nothing.  We take a lot of votes at the TPO and people wonder how did that get approved?  We all voted on it at the TPO.  There is a lot of stuff going on at the Central Florida regional planning Council.  Volusia County does not do all of that with them.  They do a little bit with them.  But there is a lot that other people are doing out there and I will take notes and bring them back for the next meeting.  Stuff we don't do and stuff the other seven County do.  It is about 50 people in the meeting.  I think it is important that we add that to the meetings at least once a month.  We can report out.  And let everybody know in the first meeting or the last meeting of the month and set a little bit of transparency.  We make a lot of decisions on those boards that affect the county.  Thoughts?  
>>  I do not have a problem with it.  
>>  I don't have a problem either.  I'm wondering does this body need to have a motion?  By you bringing it up right now -- 
>>  I do not know about that.  I think it needs to be added to the agenda.  Just committing counsel summaries.  I would be so bold as to say write them down and we can put in the record.  That is not really transparent because people do not read our minutes.  I will make a motion to add it to one of the meetings out of the month.  
>>  Okay we have a motion by Jake Johansson and second by David Santiago to add the reports of the meetings that were assigned to added to the agenda.  Any questions or concerns?  If everybody wants to do it I will vote for it.  We are going to run out of time tonight and probably have to extend the meeting.  This is going to extend meetings.  
>>  Or we can be more efficient.
>>  It can be a brief update.  
>>  Are a brief update will be fine.  
>>  All in favor say aye.
>>  Aye.
>>  Any opposed?  
>>  I got an email and I think we all got an email which begged the question for me.  I do not need to answer right now.  George, can we get a brief on lobbyist rules in the county?  I would say that everybody steps up to the podium and try to get something from counsel is a lobbyist.  We have hired two different lobbyist.  I am what about the letter to you that I got unless you all got it as well.  I would like a brief next week or next meeting or as you are able.  Even just a letter to counsel on what our lobbyist rules are.  I am trying to get to the bottom of this gentleman's concern.  I think there is an agenda but I cannot read between the lines.  Lastly, I talked to Carmen in community services folks earlier, the lady that came and was very upset that she is not taking care of medically.  I have two comments.  One is I know she has come to staff and we have been unable to help her.  We have poked every program we have and we just don't have anything that can specifically help her.  He comes to a point where the government is not the solution to all of our problems.  Here we have a group of seven guys for the most part that want even less government responsibility.  The worst place you can go is the government for most of what we do, it can be better done out in town usually.  I want everybody to know when they come to us, we bend over backwards to try to get them the right resources.  They are just as frustrated because you're looking for help.  We don't just let them complain and walk out the door.  They get more than that.  
>>  If I could just add come we did a counsel's request provide her rental and utility assistance.  But we have limitations.  I know she is looking for something different.  
>>  I have seen in the past couple of months, I do not want to say post SP may be a bit more sensitive to it people do not like preemption.  So they need preemption.  We don't want the state encroaching on us but we want the county to reach down to the cities to tell them to do something.  Preemption and government overreach is in all forms and all strata federal to state and state to County and city and municipality.  Just try to be or try to think about that one what we are doing our stuff.  It is some type of preemption in some circumstances.  Obviously, we have some authority on the county to influence the municipalities.  That is all I have.  
>>  I have a couple of brief items.  First, I want to thank the city of Holly Hill and the residents that came out to the district dialogue yesterday and Holly Hill from five – 6:00 PM.  We had a very good spirited debate and conversation.  It was a really nice dialogue.  Next, I just want to offer my condolences to officer David Jewell from the Edgewater Police Department to his family.  He was a district 4 resident.  It is just horrific news that we learned yesterday about one of our brothers that wears the badge life was taken in a senseless manner.  I just wanted to, I did not personally know the officer or his family but I just want them to know that the Kent family offer our sincere condolences.  We are very sorry to learn of the news of his passing.  I will also offer condolences to Charlie Kirk's family.  On a national level, I will just say, I was taken back how hard that news not only hit me and affected me but affected my family and affected my 19-year-old son who is in college right now.  He is really shaken up about this.  He is questioning all kinds of stuff.  So my condolences go out to the Kirk family and all of those that are suffering with that terrible news of two horrific losses.  Thank you.  
>>  Mr. Kent or counsel how do you guys feel about sending your jewel family something from the county?  Just a good gesture, is that something we can do?  Thank you.  
>>  Well said Mr. Kent.  Thank you for bringing that up.  The same with the jewel family.  And also the fact that you brought up your son and how it is affecting college kids.  And what happened right after Mr. Kirk's incident on a college campus.  And but don't had a call.  I went to an event at Daytona State to recognize a lot of the hospitality workers that work in this county.  We need them.  This is there one day and there one night to shine and it was an event that was put on by Bob Davis rest in peace.  It will continue to acknowledge those students and a lot of them were students who worked in the hospitality industry.  There was several from but soon commitment -- [INDISCERNIBLE].  The only other thing that I had hearing about our budget a lot of questions were asked and a lot of puzzled looks on some of the faces will return about budgets.  We asked specific questions related to each department but a lot of times we know the answers.  We do it for the purpose of educating the public.  That being said, I would encourage everyone those of you that can take advantage of the Volusia County citizens Academy.  Get involved and do the touring and find out how county government operates.  Double up the classes.  I think more people need to take advantage of that.  I had questions about campaigning because I live in Port Orange area at the time.  I actually enrolled in the Port Orange Academy just to learn more.  I think more people need to take advantage.  That is all I have.  Mr. Joe, thank you and good night.  
>>  Thank you.  I will try to be brief.  This is the first time I've been able to speak and because they have been long and we have run out of time.  Most of them I can take care of outside of here.  I'm glad two of you brought up David Jewell.  It is horrible.  Charlie Kirk's as well.  I went to a rather quickly put together event in Ormond was pleased with the turnout.  It was raining but it was probably 300 people that walked across the bridge.  They expressed their sorrow and their thoughts.  It was really moving.  I hope that event and David Jewell as well will help to bring the country together instead of driving us apart.  Locally the level of -- I am going to stop there.  I hope it has a positive effect.  It appears that it is having a very positive effect.  I think in Charlie Kirk's case they have gone from 1700 chapters and now they have a request for 30,000.  Worldwide and has a big effect.  Do you have the pictures from the first?  This is from the Riverbend Akers Association.  They were trying to find out why they are having so many flooding problems.  It was boiled down to three things.  The two I want to talk about, it is 223 to 27 to put in driveways without culverts so this is an important system.  It is against the law to do that.  But the owners have been informed and they do not want to do anything about it.  I think it is 227 is up for sale.  It will be a good time to do it.  The POA says we need to ask or tell them that they can't just leave it like that.  
>>  This particular location and I think this is an older photo.  We have updated photos.  This is back when we came in to clean it.  It was almost 5 or six years ago so this is the same location now.  That is what it looks like from the street view today.  What I think the issue is in this particular location there is a driveway that was installed without a culvert.  That particular driveway, they have a permit and they are required to put the culvert in and modify the driveway.  They were supposed to be starting that at the end of the month.  The permit runs to the end of December and they are going to put a similar thing to what you saw here.  Which was it takes the water and this is a high point at this location.  The water breaks in both directions.  In one location goes this way the other location go that way.  The location not seen in the photo is where the homeowner installed a secondary driveway for an RV or boat.  The neighborhood reached out to us and it might have been a part of that.  The report that HOA hired we met with them to go over some of the recommendations at the time.  That homeowner that installed the driveway illegally without a permit does have a valid permit.  We reached out to them a couple weeks ago and they are supposed to be installing the culvert in the next few weeks.  We are going to make them do that.  It is a code enforcement issue but they came in and apply for the permit.  
>>  That is good.  That whole stretch of property had a swell in it and now has no swell.  We have installed the short swell that directs the water to the road.  It is directly across the street.  
>>  This was almost 20 years ago and there was some sort of issue that resulted in a code enforcement case.  We went on and made a home owner do this modification.  What is happening at the location -- 
>>  He did it or we did it?  
>>  When we went in and did the swells if you can see in the original picture it was cleaned by us.  What you have that particular location is the high points.  That is why you do not need to swell all the way through.  When we sat down and met with them and discuss that because they did not do any real surveying as part of it.  They were looking at different type sizes and did rudimentary modeling.  The problem is where the driveway was constructed, it is blocking the flow.  That is what we are making the gentleman do.  On his own dime because he installed it.  
>>  I am not going to argue with you.  What we are looking at right here, you said it is not needed because of this.  But the people that live across the street don't feel the same way.  All of that water runs directly onto their property.  It is altering the entire drainage system for that area asked if the property is up for sale we can take a look at it.  I have met with folks across the street before.  I know what they say regarding that.  Please look into it.  
>>  This is nobody in the counties fault.  I need help on this.  This is next to a building that you own.  I had this so we know the address.  5095 north Woodland Blvd.  I know when Clay Irving was here, he said code enforcement out and they took this down.  Once a year they mold the property.  Just scroll through the pictures.  If somebody can get code enforcement out there?  I think the owner can't be found.  If you all know if there is a next step that we can do, can you lead this property or what?  
>>  It is already had a fine and lean.  We were there in April.  We assessed them a fine and they have not paid it.  What we do at this point, we do not go back afterwards to do lawn maintenance complaints.  
>>  We put a lien.  We lien the property.  
>>  You have a lot maintenance ordinance that speaks to that.  
>>  At this point, we haven't -- state rules on how we accept complaints.  They had to put their name and address on the complaint.  We have not received a complaint for activities.  
>>  Can I file a complaint?  
>>  You sure can.  
>>  Carol if you can just mention two times a year.  You mowed in April.  
>>  Our option at this point is we can sue them and foreclose on the lien.  
>>  Go ahead.  
>>  I don't know what other option we can do.  
>>  The fine is a little bit more than $2400.  
>>  Okay.  Thank you.  I know you have been working on it.  I lived there not right here although there are people living in the back building.  Everybody expects me to get it taken care of.  I hate looking at it.  
>>  He keeps his building next door manager.  
>>  You have a lot maintenance ordinance so these are not uncommon complaints.  You have a process where your staff can go out there and arrange for it to be mowed.  Limit it twice a year so we are not taking over for regular lawn maintenance.  This is a major problem when you have this property.  It is a headache for neighbors and us because we do not have a lot of tools to deal with it.  
>>  Thank you, Carol.  I did not bring up during the budget meeting because it did not fit area I was really glad to see that there were $300,000 set aside for counsel chamber AV.  Is that schedule when that will go into effect?  
>>  We will do the procurement on it October 1 when one of you becomes available.  
>>  Is it possible to do it between meetings?  
>>  I don't know, I can't answer that right now.
>>  We didn't and upgrade several years ago that required us to move the meeting to the courthouse.  
>>  I get an email about the sound on the Internet.  Our guys in the room do a great job.  It is not their fault.  I do not want them to think that I am blaming them.  They go above and beyond what everything they do.  Lastly, just one to add since it came up this morning with the mirror from Daytona Beach Shores about the flood committee.  I want Jake to know the flood committee came up at a round table of elected officials meeting.  I sat right next to the mayor that brought it up.  So the first one to volunteer so I would like to be on this committee.  She said, you can't.  I say why not and she said because there will be more than one county council member there.  She said sunshine laws and I said not a problem.  I will talk to the county attorney but they are probably going to be more than one county council member there anyway.  You know I talk about flooding a lot.  I wanted to be on it.  Two mayors and an attorney told me you can't but we appreciate you.  
>>  I think the clarification from Mayor Miller if she was still here, I don't think the committee membership is what she invited you to.  We do have multiple members of multiple cities.  Although we have never had another County Council member there.  Ormond sometimes has two and one sits in the back.  It is very collaborative and no reason holding anybody that front speaking.  We had some phenomenal stakeholders meetings as well.  It is pretty informative and we are getting some stuff done.  
>>  I did not want to let it stand the way she presented it.  It made it sound like this is an important committee and I ignore it.  I did not want to ignore it.  I will come and listen in.  
>>  I will make sure you are invited and involved.
>>  I have a couple of things and George I can talk to you about a privately.  We will adjourn.