Welcome to the Volusia County Council meeting.  It will begin in two minutes.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Okay.  If everybody wants to find their seat we will get started in one minute.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Okay.  Welcome to the October 21, 2025 Volusia County Council meeting.  We will call the meeting to order.  4:04 PM.  A little behind for the opening today of the supervisor of elections office, which is will benefit everybody who votes in Volusia County.  We do not have a volunteer for the invocation today, so we are going to start in just a minute.  Will have everybody stand that we will just have a moment of silence and then we will go to the Pledge of Allegiance.  If you would like to remain standing for that.  So, stand up.  
[Moment Of silence] 
thank you.  I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Chris I, would you call the roll call, please?  

>> DON DEMPSEY: Here.

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: Here.

>> TROY KENT: Here.

>> MATT REINHART, VICE CHAIR: Here.

>> DANNY ROBINS: Here.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Here.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Here.  We have a full quorum.  Do we have any public participation?  Who did that come from?  Okay.  I will call your name.  When I do please come to the podium.  You will have three minutes to talk about anything of concern to Volusia County.  Something that we can perhaps deal with at a future meeting.  You don't have to give your full address for safety reasons, but please tell us what part of the County were from so you representative up here knows who you are and where you are.  There will be a clock above my head on the screen in front of you to time three minutes because we do have a lot of people who want to speak.  I would ask you be respectful of those that also want to address their local government and to also be respectful of the people in the room, the people that are listening.  Young people, people of various backgrounds.  All right.  First up this morning we have Keith Juster.  

>>  DAVID SANTIAGO: Mr. chairman, before we start if I may take a moment of personal privilege.  I want to recognize a former County Counsel number.  If you want I will yell to you if you want to recognize the member.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: That is fine.  Was going to recognize her.  She was going to speak on the consent.  So before we vote on the consent agenda I will have you come up.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Thank you, sir.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: To complete what he said, we have former County Counsel member Deb Dennings here.  

>> PUBLIC COMMENT: And you have current citizen Keith Juster from Deland.  

>>  When writing about the cultural funding, some on social media referred to some you as Nazis and bigots and the fermenter leaned resume Executive Director Patty referred to meet as a little troll.  I will wear that title as a badge of honor because I hold no shame fighting for the unfair taxation of those coming behind us and how it is directly affecting young hard-working peoples ability to provide shelter for themselves and their families.  And I find it odd somewhat referred to someone that is governing body as Nazis for the refusal to have the government forcibly take money from hard-working people earned in order to give it away to so-called nonprofits of the councils choosing, thus infringing on personal freedoms of those who money is not the truly did.  And I certainly do not believe any of you are bigots.  While watching the no kings protest on the news, some are saying we as Americans broke free from a monarchy in 1776 when the Declaration of Independence was signed.  So following along with that point, I would like to remind everyone that the fight for our countries and dependent start over what was felt to be the unfair taxation of the people by a monarchy.  So I ask, is taxing Volusia County citizens in an unfair and unbalanced way while using the threat of taking one's own the property if they don't pay and giving away what is taken to so-called nonprofits much different than what started the Revolutionary war?  And taxes here are not being collected fairly and equally for the same basic essential services and that too is wrong, however, the process becomes worse when what is being taken and unfair way is then in turn given away.  It is not the government's roll to make our charitable giving decisions for us.  Here in Volusia County we have an adequate and deteriorating roads, sidewalks, and infrastructure.  We have flooding, literate waterways and right of ways and so much more that needs funding that falls within the realm of the County governments core governmental responsibilities.  Every dime that is taken by force from Volusia County citizens needs to be earmarked to those core governmental responsibilities.  And one should note, the idea that we as taxpayers don't already have the fund the arts here is absurd.  Millions have been spent through the Echo program, millions have spent spent through schools.  In fact, there is a taxpayer-funded charter school that is dedicated to the arts been funded given to colleges and universities.  Please end the funding for the cultural programs I move $611,000 to the underfunded sidewalk fun.  Increase the ROI by doing your core responsibilities well and ending the handouts.  Let us not forget in most cases, nonprofits already benefit from not being required to pay taxes thus they don't help fund the roads and infrastructure they too need to thrive.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  Greg Weight?  

>> PUBLIC COMMENT: Good afternoon commissioners.  I'm here to talk about something deeply meaningful the way we as a community choose to remember those who have shaped our lives in history.  Not only about placing a name on a plaque, raising a statute or renaming a stretch of highway.  It is about ensuring that their story, their service, and their spirit continues to live in the heart of our community.  When we decide to honor a public figure or a leader who made a lasting difference, we take several important steps.  Each one ensures our remembrance is not just emotional but enduring and thoughtful.  A memorial is not just a personal tribute.  It is a public one neighbors, civic groups, schools, or veterans organizations often join together to endorse the idea.  They circulate letters written and meetings held.  This step ensures the memorial represents shared values, not just individual wishes.  On support is gather the idea moves before local authorities or councils.  Boards or other groups that review the proposal carefully considering questions such as does this persons legacy represent the best of who we are?  Will this memorial bring our community together or separate us?  Is the location appropriate?  The memorial must be preserved and shared because a teaching tool, becomes a teaching tool for younger generations, Seita remembrance for those who follow and a reminder of the values that remind us.  Courage, service, compassion and vision.  So when we talk about honoring someone, we are talking about building bridges between past and present.  Between memory and meaning.  Each step from proposal to dedication reflects our collective gratitude in our shared humanity.  Memorials not just made a stone, metal or a stretch of highway it is made of love, respect and remembrance of the community that refuses to forget.  Thank you.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  When you come up please remind us what part of the County or from.  Next is John Nicholson.  Thank you.  

>> PUBLIC COMMENT: John Nicholson, Daytona Beach.  Welcome back.  You missed all of the fun last meeting.  Again, with regard to the $600,000 cultural arts, quite frankly it's the easiest terminology we can think of.  Everything I have read and all the articles condemn the vote, all right?  Three of you said I don't want to pull the rug out from under cultural arts at this time, yet the three of you voted to do that.  I don't think it is appropriate if you funded these organizations, they go through all of the hoops and at the last minute you yank it.  Because they do their budgets.  Two years ago you let them know you would be canceling this and they had meetings and they were working their way down and it was stopped after a year.  Did you keep your word?  You told them if you did this we will do this and then you didn't.  All right?  He will hear all the stuff in behind me.  I don't know the numbers, but they produce a great deal of money from my city and others.  Cultural arts is a moneymaker.  It employs a lot of people.  There is a lot that they buy from our community.  They are not just takers, they are givers.  And they give to our community.  I had years to convince my city that free is a good price.  We had Boys and Girls Club, we have the YMCA, we had pal who ran our centers and cost us nothing and saved us 1,000,000 1/2 in salaries.  And they didn't see it that way so they kicked them all out.  The services to our kids dropped drastically.  They offer a law people who can't afford it.  They offer a law to our children become old enough to have been there, done that.  The kids don't have that opportunity.  This is a small amount of money.  You could have waited another year and given it to Echo.  You've given money, I don't how many millions of dollars to these organizations over the year for brick-and-mortar.  Remember what we did with Volusia forever?  We said we bought this property but we can't just leave it there.  We have to manage it.  So you put in a system of taking some of the money to manage Echo.  Logical.  The same thing as here.  He built these buildings, he created and helped these creations to grow.  You can't just drop them.  It is a waste of money.  He put this money into the Athens theater, Peabody, you name it.  So it's only logical your next step should have been to go to the Echo and do the same thing you do with Volusia forever.  Have it fund our cultural arts.  Thank you.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you for your comments.  Patty Pardee?  

>> PUBLIC COMMENT: Patty Pardee district 1.  I am retired with no affiliation with any arts organization but experience with many.  In my recent retirement I gained something invaluable.  Time invoice.  I intend to use both in service to what matters deeply to me, the continued public funding of cultural organizations in our County and the elections.  For more than 30 years I stood before this body.  Sometimes to think it, sometimes to challenge it, but always armed with facts, hard data, evidence of the value of arts and culture where our residence, economy and identity.  In the past two years those facts have been ignored.  So no I ask you, what's really driving your decisions?  Let's start with the changes you requested.  You asked for a revised grant application that made space for smaller organizations.  That was done.  You asked for a shift from general support the program-based funding.  That was done.  He repeatedly raised concern about taxes so let's talk about that.  This entire allegation is over a dollar per capita.  0.0, five percent of the County budget.  Meanwhile cultural audiences generate $1 million annually and local taxes through dining, shopping, and tourism the return on investment is undeniable.  If it is not about money, it's about morality.  This is where my social media comment comes in.  Two years ago Florida's governor cut all cultural funding because of one theater Festival.  The backlash was so intense the funding was reinstated.  Voters across the date and right here have shown their support.  The Echo referendum passed twice with cultural facilities as a key component.  That program requires ongoing proof of public use, rentals, and economic impact this year you are appointed cultural counsel which each of you handpicked your dedicated hours to reading and scoring grant applications picky dismissed their works without reading the grants yourselves.  One of you decided to play morality cops and terrain programs that were not even funded by this grant.  Other sat quietly offering week objections that will never change the outcome pick let's be clear, this didn't start with a drag show and it is certainly not about one dollar per person.  So I ask you, what is this really about?  Talk about the arts are going to the local symphony, theater productions.  Have any of you visited the 32 Headstart classrooms the Museum of Art the land serves across the County?  Have you seen the afterschool program at the Chisholm center?  They are free to the children who need them the most paired by all means, continue pushing for County funds for motocross track.  Shame on those who defunded the arts and shame on those who knew better and said nothing.  If facts don't matter and results don't matter what does?  Feel free to contact me personally.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you for your comments.  Cameron Vincent?  

>> PUBLIC COMMENT: Good afternoon counsel and Chair.  Cameron Vincent, South Daytona Florida.  I am the Executive Director of arts house foundation.  And the vice president of the VCCA and I sit on the Volusia County Echo advisory committee.  We come together to work with counsel and asked they reinstate the cultural grant.  2300 resident sign the petition to reinstate the funding in just the past 13 days and that is just on social media.  When County Counsel began talks with cultural counsel about the possible cancellation of the grant, or organizations came together to find a solution.  One that would not strip free and reduced costs, cultural programming from our Volusia residence.  Chair, I understand your concern with the roads and the sidewalks.  I get it.  The funding we receive is a dollar per person per year and it generates $1.99 in tax revenue per year.  That is the definition of doubling your money.  It is an investment that pays.  Is a 100 percent return on investment.  And makes you money, it pays for itself.  As a reallocating cultural funding to roads and sidewalks, and published 2022 city of Port Orange be 1/3 party study found it costs $572,000 to improve just one mile of road and 5 million to build one mile of new road.  Five to $25 per square foot to repair or replace sidewalks.  So I ask, are we truly considering cutting long-standing general revenue investment to recover the cost of one mile of road?  The same $611,000 investment in cultural grant only returns 1.3 million dollars in local tax revenue provides 1.1 million dollars in free and reduced programming services Volusia County residence for the people who voted for you.  US the grant process be changed cultural counsel changed.  Organizations work tirelessly to meet the shortened deadline, you approved the budget for the grant.  We took you at your word.  We took you at your word.  We listened to your concern to begin the process of getting the grant on the ballot so we pulled away from the general fund.  We heard you, we are trying to work with you.  It needs time.  We want to do it like the Echo program did.  We are trying to listen to you, but the process takes time for all the work continues we implore you to work with us and reinstate critical funding part the grant represents so much more than money.  It is a small investment with monumental return for we are not asking you for more.  Only what you have already approved.  We double your investment, the true return is measured in education, creativity, community pride, and opportunities for thousands of residents, children's, families, veterans and seniors.  Your constituents.  Please, we ask you to put the grant back on the agenda.  Thank you.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  Edward Tobin?  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Mr. chairman?  I just want to bring up if we want to, how we want to redirect the rest of the public comment section because our rules call for one hour of public comments and I Thank you have 40 documents there?  In order to make it to that one hour, maybe we could produce to one, 1.5 minutes of comments to get through them.  Or do we want the full three minutes and let it run as long as it gets?  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Councilman Kent quick.

>> TROY KENT: I agree with the audience.  If they want three minutes they get tremendous but at the end of the hour we will start the rest of the business and these comments will come at the end of the meeting.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I am okay with that.  Needed to address it because we are certainly not going to make it in that window.  

>> PUBLIC COMMENT: Good afternoon counsel and chair.  My name is Ed Tobin.  I live in South Daytona.  I came to support the cultural grants that I understand the been deleted from your budget.  I came to give a shout out to your hub in New Smyrna Beach.  They host guitar for vets which is a program to teach veterans suffering from PTSD how to play guitar and use music as a therapy.  My real reason for being here is I recently joined the board at the Barboursville settlement and I just had to work with our accountant to revise our budget that we thought we had passed and now we have to revise it again.  And I'm hoping we have to do it again with the reinstatement for funding.  So I would like to just remind the Council that the Barboursville pioneer settlement is not just a bunch of old buildings.  We host about 20,000 visitors per year.  10,000 of those visitors are schoolchildren, and those schoolchildren come on field trips all throughout the year and they learn about the past.  About things there pioneer parents were the pioneers that settled Florida had to go through 100 and 150 years ago.  So all the grant may or may not directly impact us at the very bottom line, I would ask you to consider reinstating it.  I would also like to invite everybody hearing this to come out to our fall harvest Festival November 1 and second.  If we get additional admissions through the gate it will help offset some of the funding we may have lost.  Anyways, thank you very much for your time.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you for your comments.  Anthony?  And I'm going to -- the next person will be Anne Marie if you want to come up and get ready.  We have a little more than 1/2 hour which means about 11 people.  If you can say what you want to say in less than three it will give somebody, some other people attorn to talk.  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: My name is Anthony.  I live in Barboursville and I'm president of the creative happiness Institute and all volunteer 501(c)(3) organization.  Which promotes poetry and the arts and is based on the philosophy that the arts inform us, elevate us, contribute to our health and well-being.  Our motto is "be creative, be well." We are one of the organizations that apply for a grant from the County with the guidance of the Volusia County cultural Council.  And I ask, I'm going to read two short excerpts from an opinion piece by the Orlando editorial board published October 19 and I ask the entire editorial be included in the minutes of today's meeting.  Unless any of you Councilman want to discount the thoughts that express therein as coming from outside Volusia County, I will tell you that the editorial board writer is a woman named Chris.  Before she moved to the Sentinel, she was for many years the editor of the letters to the editor page of the Daytona Beach Journal and the editorial page of the newspaper.  She has a deep, lived knowledge of Volusia County.  Here is an excerpt on at issue.  This is from the editorial.  At issue a 611 pool of grant funding that the Council established decades ago back when County leaders understood the economic and community building benefits of arts and cultural programs.  Every year of volunteer committee reviews and ranks applications from area museums, theaters, historical societies and other community organizations this year the committee recommended funding 33 requests including art camps, history walks, art festivals and other activities.  Specific request included the Naval Air Station Museum Memorial day event, a performance of Handle's Messiah by the Daytona beach choral Society, and exhibition in exhibit at the Mary S Harrell Black Heritage Museum in New Smyrna Beach.  Etc. I will go on to number two which comes from the last paragraph of the editorial.  Volusia County should not abandon its decades long commitment to arts and culture programs.  The Council meets again Tuesday and has a chance to reverse course which should be made easier by the fact the Athens and shoestring theaters have withdrawn their applications for County operating funding this should be an easy -- thank you.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you for your comments.  Ann Marie and you will be followed by Heather and Heather E will be followed by Mayor Karen.  Thank you Carissa.  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: Good evening.  My name is Ann Marie.  I live in the land and I'm the president of Volusia pride.  Two weeks ago I watched as he weapon eyes our organization against the entire Volusia arts community.  You pandered to us when you wanted our votes and turned around and used us as pawns in your manufactured cultural war.  Arts funding is not about giving public money to private business.  Arts funding is about upholding freedom of expression, fostering creativity in our youth, and investing in economic vitality of our County.  Through tourism, cultural growth, and community identity.  Are arts organizations bring people here.  They create jobs, they she belonging, and they help our young people imagine the future for themselves.  And now after using Volusia pride is a convenient scapegoat for your funding cuts, some councilmembers propose naming a street after a man who was never controverted to Volusia County, has no relationship to our community, and is publicly known for promoting division and discrimination.  You're proposing to honor a man who publicly demeaned queer people, questioned the humanity of those who transitioned and suggested black professionals are inherently less qualified.  He advocated for the subservience of women, denied the principle of separation of church and state, and used his platform to foster hate and resentment instead of unity and dialogue.  This is the message of the man you propose to honor on public signage in our County.  This does not reflect who we are nor the valley of the people who call Volusia home.  I am a proud Volusia County resident, a nonprofit leader, internationally recognized athlete and someone working every day to build belonging.  For all of us who live, work, create, play and dream and Volusia County, I am asking you to do better.  Thank you for your time.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  Heather followed by Mayor Karen followed by Grace Boynton.  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: Good afternoon chairman, councilmembers.  My name is Heather.  I live in Deland, Volusia County.  On the vice president of Volusia pride, an organization that provided support, advocacy, visibility and hope for LGBTQ+ community and allies in our community.  At the October 7 meeting you chose to withhold $611,000 in funding from being awarded to 33 cultural organizations in Volusia County.  By the time the meeting was over and in the last two weeks the general public has gotten the impression this counsel never intended for those funds this year and he will allocate them to other parts of the budget.  While I may and many others by me today and two weeks ago and the chamber probably don't agree with that decision, I'm not here to talk about that today.  I'm here to talk about the fact we witnessed elected officials bully to the arts organizations are doing business with our nonprofit organization.  You told them even though you continue to push for them to fund themselves rather than relying on tax dollar funding should only do business with organizations that fit the Council definition of art.  Used her position to quite a chilling effect that is made of the businesses and organizations given the opportunity think twice about doing business with us and our organization.  You grilled representatives from the Athens theater about their work with Volusia pride as if it were a crime rather than a business transaction or community event.  You even insinuated they should think about refusing to work with us which would be a violation of current antidiscrimination law.  Our work is not funded by government and outs or taxpayer dollars.  We are a nonprofit organization who rents spaces and present entertainment that is fully compliant with all local, state, and federal law.  Our business partners are valley members of this community and should not be penalized for supporting us.  With great power comes great responsibility.  You represent all of the constituents of Volusia County and whether you are aware of it or not, 10 percent of them are LGBTQ+ that number keeps growing.  10 percent of Gen Z now identify as LGBTQ+.  I know you pride yourself on being pro-business, perhaps it is not great advice to suggest not doing business with LGBTQ+ support organizations.  My advice to you is educate yourself, open your eyes and hearts and realize the responsibility you have is elected officials on this counsel.  Thank you for your time.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  Mayor Karen followed by grace followed by Caitlin.

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: Thank you for the opportunity to speak here. I'm concerned with the withdrawal of counsel funding for the arts.  I would like to cite the comprehensive plan, your comprehensive plan in the funding portion of the cultural element.  The County shall maintain the viability of cultural facilities and opportunities by assisting the relevant sponsoring cultural organizations through an annual County budget appropriation dispersed as competitive grants to local cultural organizations to be used for operating costs and limited capitol expenditures.  The County shall help support cultural organizations that demonstrate artistic merit and a history of public support through the presenter number of the public servant, amount of public funding, professional management capacity, number of volunteer hours, amount and kind contributed services and demonstrating a substantial positive economic impact of the County.  The County through the cultural arts grant requirement shall set a ceiling for allocations to a cultural organization for operating grants.  Please note the budget appropriations are for operating costs and limited capitol expenditures pick the appropriations are determined by the factors outlined in the comp plan.  In contrast, echo grants are specifically used solely to finance acquisition, restoration, construction, and improvement of our creation of historic and cultural facilities for public use and the process for screening cultural grants for facilities is not identical to the one in the comp plan.  Echo grants clearly do not cover the obligations shall multiple times in the comp plan for maintaining the viability of cultural facilities and opportunities, or assisting them through an annual County budget appropriation for operating costs and limited capitol expenditures.  The amount going into echo each year as determined by a separate millage amount chosen within the constraints of the authorizing ordinance, not a County budget appropriation.  I believe the Council could reverse its decision to breach the comp plan through subsequent action at this meeting and I thank you for your time.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you for your comments.  Grace Boynton, Caitlin Swan but followed by Caitlin Martinez.  Okay.  Catherine is switching with grace.  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: Catherine, address protected.  Councilman Robbins, the last meeting he removed item H from the consent agenda, in item already approved by the County budget allocating $611,000 to support public arts programs throughout Volusia County.  Rather than discussing the arts cultural and economic value, he presented a false narrative claiming tax dollars were being used to fund drug shows and LGBT Q events.  Let statement was untrue.  Tax dollars have been driven used to fund those events and you are well aware of that fact pick your comments were not only misleading, they were designed to create fear and division in this community.  Chairman Brower, I have long respected US advocate for residents of Volusia County, however, some of your recent decisions have been concerning her quality emphasize fiscal responsibility, you supported spending 10 million proposed motocross facility built on land purchased under the guise of conservation.  An additional a million to subsidize a for-profit airline.  This was the admitting of corporate welfare on the back of taxpayers.  Respectfully, that does not align with the principles of responsible governance for Councilman Robbins, I believe public deserves transparency.  While you sit on the dais positioning yourself as the arbiter of morality, your own record raises serious questions because a Daytona beach police officer you were reprimanded for spending time inside lollipops strip club while on duty.  Your supervisors written reprimand stated he would not locked out and you did not indicate you are out of your car.  Your report was misleading and would have created an officer safety issue.  If we are to discuss morality and integrity, it's fair to ask why were you inside a strip club on duty on the taxpayers time and time.  You were not dispatch there nor were you flying down.  If you are misleading, how are voters expected to trust you now?  This is not leadership, it's hypocrisy, performance politics and detracts from the real challenges facing Volusia County.  Flooding, soaring insurance rates, and manage growth and deteriorating infrastructure.  Instead of addressing those issues, you chose to demonize people and use morality as a political tool.  A copy of your Rep Berman will be entered into the public record and come election day voters will decide whether they want leadership grounded in honesty and accountability or more the same political theater.  In closing I want to remind all of you these art programs provide many free services to our community.  The Museum of Art and science is free for all Volusia County residents for the first Tuesday of each month art house provides art therapy to autistic children and pace school for girls.  Their free progress for veterans as well what is not okay is to cleverly disguised personal bias from the dais on the cloak of core government responsibilities!  I hope all you reconsider reallocating the $611,000 back to the arts where it belongs.  Thank you.  [Applause] 

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Caitlin followed by Karina followed by Craig.  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: Good afternoon.  My name is Reverend Caitlin Swan.  I live at 435 E. Ridge avenue in Deland are coming United Methodist minister an educator and a small business owner.  I'm here because the councils decision not to award funding to 32 arts and culture organizations is more than disappointing.  It is shortsighted and unjust.  I understand one reason cited for this was to theaters, the Athens and shoestring, rented their spaces to Volusia pride for drug events to raise funds for their programs.  Let's talk about that first.  Are we really withholding funding from every arts organization in the County because two of them did business with the queer community?  That is not fiscal responsibility, that's discrimination.  If organizations that receive County funding are expected to pick and choose who they are allowed to serve, this County owes the public some calamity.  Who exactly are you expecting them to discriminate against next?  LGBT Q groups now, but sure, where does that and?  Is it political groups next?  What about religious groups.  Should a theater refuse a fundraiser for a Democratic candidate?  What about a conservative speaker?  When the lawsuit start flying as they inevitably will come up with the County be stepping in to support them and defend them?  The truth is that this argument about drug shows is a smokescreen anyway the real issue is the Council is looking for an excuse to end all funding for the arts calling it charity, as if supporting culture, creativity and education were an act of pity rather than an act of progress.  I'm a clergy person and I know charity when I see it.  This is it charity, this is smart economic investment.  These organizations employ local artists, attract out-of-town visitors, many of the my friends coming from out of county to spend their money here, and to keep our downtowns alive.  People travel from other counties to see a show at the Athens are shoestring.  They eat in restaurants, they shop in our stores, they stay at our hotels pick every ticket sold as an investment in the small businesses around it.  Somehow the Council understands economic investment when it aligns with their personal projects and hobbies.  I expect you will be hearing a lot about motocross for quite some time.  Here is the thing.  I'm not here to oppose the motocross project.  I don't personally ride motocross, but I think it is cool to bring things to our county people want to do and see and be a part of.  That is what the arts do too.  What I'm asking is simple.  Apply the same standard across the board.  If you believe in economic development, believe in all of it.  You don't have to like every play, every event or song, but you have to govern for the good of everyone.  Don't let personal taste dictate public investment.  Investing community, creativity and vibrancy.  Thank you.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  Karina followed by Craig followed by Jason.  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: My name is Karina Martinez and I am a music major living at the University.  When I first heard about 32 cultural arts organizations losing their grant money, I was honestly disappointed.  But then I realized, not everyone understands the importance of arts so I'm here to talk about it.  Because I am a music major in going to specifically be talking about community orchestras like Volusia community arts.  There's an article published in the national Library of medicine that says students who grew up learning an instrument on average do better in reading, spelling, and nonverbal intelligence.  Compared to students who didn't.  In addition to cognitive benefits, learning an instrument gives you an opportunity to be in a music ensemble like a community of constructor this is important because participating in ensembles helps with emotional regulation, sense of belonging, confidence and greed of thinking.  Also creates community which is important in a time where so many young people are reporting feeling lonely.  I'm not sure about the others in the room, but I want the youth Volusia County to thrive in life.  Academically, emotionally, and socially.  Unfortunately with the loss the grant money to community orchestras the students have access to the benefits music has to offer and the arts in general although they can get involved in school that doesn't work for every student more access they have, the better.  Community investments is one of the reasons I'm a musician today I've seen firsthand how it has improved my life and the life of my peers.  I chose to go to Stetson enjoying the community acknowledges because they have a good music program but because I wanted to be part of a community with a vibrant arts and I would hate to see that community fade away due to finances.  The youth in the future so I'm asking you to please reconsider your decision to take these grant so that more young students can thrive in Volusia County.  Thank you for your time.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you for your comments.  Craig followed by Jason followed by Tanawah.  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: Good afternoon gentlemen.  Craig, good to see you all of you.  I live in Deland district.  I am here speaking as the president of the Volusia County cultural alliance and speaking on behalf of the hundreds of artists, educators, and organizations that help Volusia County be a place where people want to live and work and visit.  As you know for the past 36 years the County Council recognized funding for arts and culture is not just a luxury, it's an investment until the majority of this council.  I'm a data driven decision maker and I do that in my everyday work and also in my personal life.  I know I previously shared with you that the AEP American for the arts six study showed every dollar invested returns over a dollar and $0.99 local economic activity.  The arts and culture has helped generate more than millions of dollars annually spent restaurants, hotels and other small businesses the funding has helped support jobs, attract tourists, and strengthen our schools both public and private and charter.  When those funds disappear, the losses not abstract pick it will be visible.  Not if but when.  It will be visible.  Canceled programs, darkened stages, and children, perhaps the thing I'm most passionate for her children without access to grid of learning opportunities that continued to build confidence and innovation Park the nonprofit arts and cultural organizations took seriously your direction to be more self-sustaining.  And they opened their doors to outside groups and to rethink productions to help offset cost to keep our families vibrant and active.  It is therefore deeply concerning that hosting certain community groups was used as a justification to withhold this year's already allocated funds.  Perhaps the number one principle of public service, as you probably know already, is that you serve through a lens of public service and preference for all people.  Not just some people.  The arts reflect a full, wide variety of residence.  Every background, every belief, every orientation and that inclusivity is what makes communities thrive.  In closing, I think that this moment calls for leadership rooted in fairness and consistency and vision.  The arts are not partisan.  They are the sole of a healthy democracy, one that celebrates creativity and fosters empathy and welcomes every citizen to the table.  Thank you.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you for your comments.  Jason, Tanawah, and you will be followed by Adam.  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: It's Parody.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: I'm sorry.  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: I'm Jason from Deland, one of the owners of artworks Deland.  I'm here to talk about your decision to eliminate the $611,000 in arts funding, deposition economically rational.  Procedurally unjust and morally bankrupt.  Let's talk numbers for the arts sector contributes 1.2 trillion dollars annually to the United states economy.  Florida arts industry alone generates 5.8 billion dollars in economic activity.  Every art attendee spends $31 beyond admission, $47 if they are from out of town.  As a business owner that spending keeps our doors open.  On top of the neighborhood with the rest our programs have half the school truancy and delinquency of those without.  The arts aren't a luxury, their economic and social infrastructure.  Now let's talk about your budget.  You per 1.39 building dollars to cut, that is .044 percent, literally a rounding error you found that in the littlest the new sheriff complex, $24 million for new mosquito control facility, $17 million for jail surveillance cameras, 15.$7 million for cosmetic upgrades to the ocean center.  Let me be crystal clear about what you defunded.  The Athens theater requested money for legally blonde, steel magnolias, sound music, family productions pick the objection event you cited, Rocky horror pride events, those with third-party rentals for Volusia pride never applied for or received a single grant dollar picky punished museums, symphonies, historical societies and youth programs this is like shutting down the public library system because someone checked out a book you don't like.  The cultural counsel vetted every application, every dollar was accounted for, organizations provided detailed plans.  He reformed the grant process to fund specific programs rather than operations and then cut everything anyway.  Prevent reform as a pretext for censorship.  The budget shows the of emergency reserves above the required five percent minimum figure spending $20,000 to upgrade that AV equipment that autoroute works for development tax funds can be legally designated to promote cultural attractions instead of the general fund.  The money exists.  You just chose not to find it.  Here is what this is.  Its ideological censorship disguised as fiscal responsibility.  Is pinning $1 million in jail camera funding be on the $9 million previously budgeted.  I would love to know where the line item was increased by 80 percent and who was awarded that contract.  The arts attracts service, supports businesses.  We heard in all over and over again.  Economists confirms that, every successful city invested it.  Is not stewardship, it's bigotry.  Restored the arts funding, please.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: We have time for tomorrow if we are E. Tanawah and Adam.  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: Good evening.  I am a civil rights advocate and litigator from Washington D.C. here to provide a public notice to all of you.  Iniquitous with the Rules of Civil Procedure.  The Constitution of the United States is the requirement the state must follow.  I am sure you all agree with states cannot enact their own alternative legislation, substitute that for the Constitution.  That would be quite unconstitutional.  Clause 1 amendment five says no person shall be held to answer for capitol or otherwise infamous crime unless a presentment or indictment of a grand jury.  That is clear.  Before arresting someone and holding them over, however, the state of Florida enacted its own alternative legislation that permits law enforcement to charge information as opposed to him indictment.  That is unconstitutional.  In violation is when you pay someone to break the Constitution.  There are two areas the Constitution reinforces this.  The first is article 1 section 10 where he says no state should create any law which shall impair the obligation of contracts police officers, prosecutors are all under contract.  A contract to perform based upon the affirmation they took pixel in the state of Florida creates a law that directs those agents to disobey the Constitution of the United States, that would be a direct violation of article 1, section 10 for the second place that reinforces this is the 14th amendment.  That says no state should abridge the -- the privileges of the nonstate citizens aren't a minimum those enumerated in the Bill of Rights the first sentiment cannot be impaired and thus the state created a law that they are enforcing that is in direct violation of that particular amendment.  So I'm here to let you know that if we continue to pay the public officials to break the Constitution, criminal sanctions can come from that.  I don't want to head down the path but I need to make sure you are aware paying people to abridge the Constitution is a crime.  It's a violation any legal.  I am getting ready to argue this on behalf of the more than 700,000 people currently in prison in America illegally.  And so I am asking you honorable individuals to take a look at clause 1, amendment five.  Confirm the thing something to be true indirect agents to act in a lawful and constitutional matter.  I have a notice I need to put on the record but before I do that I want to say soon as we are done here you will go to the attorney and asked the attorney whether or not what I am saying is true and that attorney will point you to case from 1884 called Hurtado versus California.  Before you choose to rely upon that as foundation, I must remind the Constitution of the United States is the foundation, not a judge made ruling.  The Supreme Court has no cost to the authority to destroy any provisions are guaranteed constitutions judges cannot legislate and you know that because article once is all legislative power is vested in the Congress of the United States.  I know this is a tough decision but you will have to make it.  As soon as we are done you will have to decide whether you will go and follow a judge made ruling, the lowest formula with the Constitution of the United States.  Diaper you guys make the right decision.  Thank you guys so much, God bless and have a great rest of your night.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Adam?  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: Where would you like me to give this?  We went to the clerk over here.  Can you give him time to speak?  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: Adam Bakker.  I am here to discuss the plane them but that it corruption of the shows office, internal affairs and Sheriff Mike.  In late 2021 through early 2023 after my license was suspended because of fraud executed through the clerks office I began submitting internal affairs complaints and aggressively speaking out that there were multiple attempts to take my life I poisoning and professional hit.  On February 20, 2023 I bumped into him by chance right outside of us this.  The sheriff looked into my eyes barking what are you doing here he said.  Attempting to intimidate.  Six weeks later midnight my front door was kicked in without a warrant for my home or property on two completely fabricated cases pick let's not forget about the events of August 27, 2018 -- can you all stop talking, please?  When my 21-year-old girlfriend allegedly blew her brains out with my pistol.  Holcomb I was never able to get the murder weapon retreat?  I had to oppose him for over an hour in which he fabricated affirmation throughout claiming not to know who I was until after I filed my federal lawsuit.  That was a boldfaced lie while under oath.  To make matters worse on page 17 when asked if he would recommend the Sergeant for committing perjury, he clearly says yes.  These depositions took place over five months ago.  No action was taken.  For any member of the audience were watching online willing to submit my citizens complaint form, shoot me a text, on Facebook or my cell phone and I will provide 73 page deposition in which he made a complete ass of himself.  Is not okay to protect criminals because they inherited $30 million with real estate.  After you read the deposition I am sure you would agree it is time for him to resign with his dignity prior to being humiliated in federal proceedings become so sick and tired of witnessing the social media Darwin our sheriff has become part it is quite pathetic there considering the man does not possess the moral backbone this is the Rita police kindergarten classroom let alone all Volusia.  My entire life has been destroyed because of the incompetence and poor leadership of the Volusia sheriff's office, the rule of law is not properly respected in the town.  He has failed himself, his esteemed position in the entirety of Volusia County.  I can assure you if any of you is able to amass a significant amount of wealth and decides to leave the wealth to an individual, you do not want those funds being used to pay off corrupt officials of attempting to have that individual murdered.  Psalms 115 verse one reads "not to us, Lord, not to us but your name to the glory.  Because all your love and faithfulness. " Please join me and submit the complaint so we can finally read our town of a demonic force.  Thank you.  That's all I have.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  That concludes public participation for the beginning of our meeting.  I will hold, I think we have 22 more.  I will hold to the second public participation.  Did you want to speak to the lawyer from D.C.?  

>> DON DEMPSEY: I was going to ask him for the citation to the California case.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: She has the citation.  Thank you.  Okay.  That takes us to item 1, the approval of the agenda.  

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: Motion to approve.  

>>  Second.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Motion to approve the agenda as written by Jake Johansson.  Second by Councilman Kent.  All in favor say aye.  Any opposed?  And the agenda is approved 7/0.  We will now move to item 2, the consent agenda.  Before I call our speaker does anyone have an item they would like to pull for a comment?  

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: For eComment items I, J, K, L and M. 

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: I, J, K, L and M are pulled for common.  By Councilman Johansson.  Does anyone have an item they would like to pull for a vote?  

>>  Motion to approve the consent agenda as presented.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Motion to approve by Troy Kent.  Second by Councilman Santiago.  Before we vote on it I will call Deb Dennings to come and speak on item G. 

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: Good evening Mr. chair, Councilman and staff.  New Smyrna Beach district 3. I am here as a governing board member of the Florida community trust.  To congratulate you on your grant award of $246,949 for our Spruce Creek preserve.  You should know that during the presentation process Nick Dunham represented you well.  Especially noted he showed up in person in Tallahassee.  Not just via phone progress board members we are allowed toward 10 extra excellent points.  Not that your application needed extra points because you scored so high, but Volusia was in the house pick my colleagues have heard my comments through the years because I know applications for my own County.  But that day Volusia was in the house and I made the motion to add the excellent points for showing up to the support and smiles of my colleagues and staff.  I'm here to congratulate and encourage you Volusia has the added benefits through our echo forever monies pick let's leverage those dollars become going to share a couple of grants that has already been awarded.  The city of Sebastian for a waterfront park extension 1.3 acres for reimbursement.  The grant was awarded for 1,000,400,000, 60 percent of the 40 percent match of 694,000 total project cost was 1.9 $7 million with applications for a park and open space.  Included 1.5 acres of a submerged land lease the state.  That can be done.  Redevelopment on the project site consists of constructing a passive park including picnic facilities, playground and atrial benches.  Native landscaping, drainage features will include flood protection while also improving stormwater runoff.  In St. John's County are colleagues to the north, the entire commission, was awarded 3.5 million dollars toward a total project cost of 17 million and the purchase of land to expand the waterway access and provide a public park on the current waterfront parcel and protect the waterfront from residential development.  Needless to say there is more detail to the grant applications but my purpose in sharing is to encourage you applying for grants outside our normal box.  These grant applications are public record and I have an entire notebook I will gladly meet with staff to discuss options and share successful applications and their attachments for I look forward to make the motion to once again support Volusia County.  Great jobs.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you for your comments.  We have a motion to approve the consent agenda and a second if we will take a vote in to items I through M for discussion.  Is there any questions before I call for the vote?  All in favor of approving the consent agenda please say aye.  Any opposed?  The agenda is approved 7/0 but we will go to item I for a comment.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: On all of these do you need the person to come.

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: No, but she is already there.  I want to point out to the public.  Donna Butler here transformed three stations programmed on some great things SMI you are aware.  The cochair for the roundtable.  We have been keeping up on what Donna and Ben are doing to make our county a better place.  These five items right here are indications the ball is rolling.  We awarded a bunch of grants every day to a bunch of cities and some County and there are some task assignments Donna and Ben and the rest of the team, everybody, I appreciate everything you all are doing to get that money spent.  Buynum bureaucracy took us a wino to get the money.  It took us a while to manage the money and it took us a while to spend it but here we are.  I am pretty excited about this.  And bunch of them are analysis.  Some of them are actual turn under.  Let's get moving and go to the next batch.  I appreciate it.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Well said.  Okay.  That covers all of them.  Thank you very much.  We will move to item 3 which is a budget resolution that JJ Pro management LLC for the Volusia County tax collector interior renovation restoration.  David Santiago.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Moved to approve.

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: Second, Johansson.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Motion to approve, second by Jake Johansson.  As she timidly walks to the microphone, are there any questions for staff?  

>>  Will Roberts is here also.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: David your name is.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I met with will.  The answered a lot of my questions and that is why I moved to approve.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: I would keep your seat.  No other questions?  All in favor say aye.  Any opposed?  The resolution passed 7/0.  Good job Mr. tax collector.  Item for road funding presentation by Tadd Kasbeer.  This is an item that was brought forward, brought back by Councilman Robbins to look at our road situation.  This is for discussion.  

>> TADD KASBEER: Good evening.  Tadd Kasbeer, County engineer.  This is as you said a discussion on road projects.  You wanted us to take a look at things beyond what we put down our road program.  For example, we normally put in capacity projects, that is usually our biggest, most important aspect.  Fixing capacity problems we have on our road network and we have safety projects we outline and put in there.  This time around you are looking for in addition to that till create situations where we have better economic the filament opportunities in different sections of the County.  You wanted us to take a look at things beyond capacity and safety.  We took a look at what we previously proposed in our road program.  

>>  Did you want to interrupt?  

>>  If you don't mind.  Thank you very much.  I was just curious, I don't know if Mr. Robbins already had his question answered before this presentation.  We all got this.

>> TADD KASBEER: I'm not planning on going all the way through it.

>> TROY KENT: I didn't.  I just wanted to see if anyone wanted to see the again, that's fine.  But if not I think we are ready to rock 'n' roll.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Councilman Robbins?  

>> DANNY ROBINS: I think the purpose of this if we go back a little bit of time trying to get to a funding mechanism I think long term for these these affect all our districts and a lot of them are much needed.  I have a couple of projects in here.  The bridge scoring that I would like to talk about for a minute, if you can elaborate on that a little bit.  Some of these issues that affect the storms are creating some situations for my constituents.  I know that we need some money for that project.  

>>  What number is that?  

>>  That is actually not on the list.  The bridge on Taylor Rd., East of for 15, Tomoko Farms Road has a problem.  They are at a point where they are being exposed and that bridge has some issues and has some concerns.  Going in there and making improvements to the bridge would be something that we can tackle.  I believe we have some money allocated to that.  I can give a better description.  

>>  Exactly what he said.  We had to put a load waiting on the bridge to produce the weight of the vehicles able to drive over due to the scouring that occurred.  We are in design for what is called a crutch vent which will restore the load to that bridge.  And we have programmed some funding for that next year.  We want to get the bridge back.  The bridge itself is in really good shape.  It's one pile that got exposed during the storm.  It is worth saving and we are going to need money to make the repair coming up here soon.  

>>  Thank you.  It's just going back to what I said, what led up to this is we were looking for a funding source, whether it's through bonding from we had this presentation put together in lieu of having a workshop.  I think we can probably come to maybe some solutions fairly quick.  I'm going to be relying on you a little bit.  In Ormond Beach, can you explain how that worked for you guys?  You were there for a while.  

>>  We had a dedicated millage we put for road projects.  There was no guesswork about how much money we would have.  We knew exactly what we are going to have.  We also did the same thing for renewal and replacement.  I know this is on Rose and you are interested in that.  But it would be us looking at our millage and sitting down with George and our management team and making a decision if we wanted to put a certain amount set aside for that reason and that reason only every year.  

>>  I have no issues with that.  To be want to have that discussion now or should we wait until maybe January.  We have 5 million staff has been able to work into a budget.  I think that they had given us some bonding options without to start tackling some of these.  

>>  To me there is good and bad and the good outweighs the bad but whenever you do that you are taking money away from other things that you will not be able to spend it on.  When you have a need like roads and sidewalks, that's a good thing in my mind because those things don't fall to the wayside.  I don't know if George's prepared.  If he has a millage amount has been talking with staff about and said because at this aside and equals this much money.  I don't know because I haven't had that conversation with him and if not we might need to come back.  I hate to put you in the hot seat, but if you been talking about a number?  Or is that a little premature?  

>>  A little immature.  He pulled up a slide where we are trying to get to.  Here are the opportunities out there for funding roads.  And if you notice, we have property taxes one of the ones you are talking about there.  What we did in the past was the road bond where we bonded the gas tax is something we did successfully in the early 2000.  We have to guarantee a source like the gas tax that is consistent.  We tried to pay some of it off with impact fees but of course the recession occurred.  There are pros and cons to doing that, but we were able to take $65 million in turn it into $100 million worth of work by leveraging that money and DOT in other state funds the last one is general obligation fund.  That's a little bit different in that goes out for referendum.  That is your most wide open as far as your ability and flexibility on spending.  But we would need time to talk more about that if that is where you want to go.  That would be a big commitment.  What it would offer you the most flexibility if you really wanted to supercharge the road program.  

>>  Chair?  Maybe if we can get instances to maybe have staff look at it.  Put something together for us to see what it would entail.  I will be honest with you.  I have been here five years now.  These projects almost seem like they never get done then it has been a goal of all of us.  Infrastructure, sidewalks.  A dedicated program where we can start making some meaningful headway before I get into the ground.  Do we need regular consensus for that?  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: This is so important.  I think this probably requires you all can discuss it and vote on it, but it would require a workshop.  I don't think we can just ask them to bring back a millage rate.  We have all these options we need to discuss.  Some we can dispose of pretty quickly.  But I don't know that.  I don't know what everyone is thinking.  Everybody sitting up your wants to speak on this.  

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: Think about what you bring in for Echo or forever.  That is.02.  And brings in between 12 and $13 million a year.  Add that up to what Tad Matilda, the roads are running right now.  Take a two lane to a four-lane.  It is probably the neighborhood.  You were looking around seven to $8 million on my own.  We have a thousand miles of road, not all of it needs the treatment but we can identify.  We have a map that shows the problem spots.  We bred footbridges that need to be replaced.  We have bridges that need to be built.  There's one that would help leave the problem at LPGA.  Hopefully the DOT will come through with that.  I believe they are.  We also have Williamson South, that is the bridge needed to bridge between Daytona and Port Orange.  The needs because in the previous slides are great.  When you're talking about the amount of money, $12 million a year would be great.  We bring in 20 Millman a year now, slightly over.  That is what it takes to maintain and do some of the resurfacing that is required.  We can come back with more numbers, but we wanted to make sure we weren't going down a road.  I do think probably in the absence of an infrastructure sales tax which would be your other amount which I don't think we have heard anybody interested in.  Your other area would be bonding in order to do that.  We could have the discussion here today to make sure we are all good.  It is a discussion that requires the CFO to talk about the interests intricacies of borrowing them bonding.  Okay?  

>>  How much do we need to square away the bridge there?  People are having to go miles out of the way.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: I am still not clear where it is.  

>>  It is right by the fire station on Taylor road.  There was three feet of water in it just decimated it.  And has a special permit only and it is causing an lot of fines and issues when DOT.  How much did we need for that?  

>>  We are looking at three quarters of $1 million and we should have the plans ready for bed in the next 30 to 60 days.  We are actually planning on using the $5 million in the budget.  We do have other scar projects and bridge projects.  

>>  You will see we have the need for the Main Street bridge which is going into the rehabilitation phase.  Again, and bridge built in the 1950s.  

>>  You guys put together an email if you could send that because I think it spanned all our districts and that weight everyone knows what we are dealing with.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: I'm going to call on everybody else appear but I want to ask one more thing of the Council.  If we could let staff know it if there are any items that they don't need to waste their time on.  From there it is property tax, sales tax.  Let's vote to reduce the list so that they can come back with something.  

>>  You can take sales tax off.  I think more from that.  

>>  That is what we are looking forward.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Vice chair.

>> MATT REINHART, VICE CHAIR: First off, thank you for the email yesterday.  It took me in a minute to understand because there aren't a lot of roads and bridges and color codes.  Could you real quick define what colors.  Why it is that way?  

>>  On the priority list we set it up to make it easier to interpret.  The highlight our projects on the priority list but we don't have the full amount of funding available with current sources.  If you're going to go with.

>> MATT REINHART, VICE CHAIR: The funding is there for the Bevill Road to Madeleine?  I get a Lotta questions about that.  We saw everybody who lives out there as seen them mow down the area that is going to go adjacent to that.  Of course they are still asking the question about Madeleine to will run and there is a fear of bottlenecking but the fact it is backed up to Madeleine makes it at least a little bit easier for me to understand.  

>>  We have that section from Madeleine to town west.

>> MATT REINHART, VICE CHAIR: Which is shy of will run.  

>>  We received $3 million for the design on that.  We have 3 million applied.  We would need to, but the remaining 20 million.  

>> MATT REINHART, VICE CHAIR: The last question, just for clarity for people who are listening.  The bridge.  Is there any plan in the future for anything to do with the bridge the one that crosses over 95?  That is part of that project?  If you say there is money approved or allocated from there to go to Willow run shy.  

>>  The plan is not to stop at Willow run.  The previous project starts in and goes all the way through and four-lane basically from the northern end of the way down to Port Orange.  

>> MATT REINHART, VICE CHAIR: Thank you for bringing up about the Main Street bridge because that was another question I had.  The Williamson Bevill, that is in the planning phase now?  Design.  Foreground breaks?  

>>  It could be designed in will be cited next bid.  

>> MATT REINHART, VICE CHAIR: Lastly this is more, I know it has been asked picked up little tiny ones.  That little bridge.  I know Mr. Chester put it on social media.  He is right.  That is a nightmare.  

>>  The entire stretch West.  The bridge being tight is no different.  That is a part of the section where negotiating.  They are basically going to take from West of Williamson all the way down to 92.  

>> MATT REINHART, VICE CHAIR: How much of that road is in the trade between there and Peninsula?  And then we are taking Peninsula?  And we don't know when that will transpire?  

>>  We are waiting for them to send back the comments on the last draft.  

>> MATT REINHART, VICE CHAIR: All right.  Thank you chair.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Councilman Johansson.

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: I just wanted to, it will be an interesting workshop for sure because we are looking at 80 different ways to cut property taxes if we knew NGO bond backed with property taxes that might not exist.  Is going to be pretty healthy discussions.  I am sure Reinhart will do the best he can in the ever so variable environment.  I think right now not enough money, but safest option is probably a road -- because we are getting a gas tax.  The bang for the buck is probably for the Geo bond.  Especially if we brought it in a little bit.  It's going to be a healthy discussion at the workshop definitely for me.  And I am looking forward to hearing good ways to get a good bang for our buck.  One of the comments and complaints when we talk about impact fees is when people pay impact fees they don't pay for the whole thing.  It's a part of the impact they made.  And so we put that money in the bank by the time we get the money to pay for something FOLEY that impact feet is like one small portion of it.  There's an opportunity to take some impact fees, take some bond money and take matching grant money to really make an impact on our community and the infrastructure.  We all have to do our homework when we come to this workshop and we have to spend a lot of time and be ready to make a smart decision.  I appreciate it.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Good point.  That is really what I wanted to say Councilman Johansson.  And look at this potential funding list we don't know what will be left on this.  If the Governor puts property taxes on the ballot it will pass because almost everyone hates property taxes.  And then we don't know how will we built a bridge, how will we pave a road or build a sidewalk or do anything?  It's going to depend on possibly we are all looking in a crystal ball, it may depend on what the state sees as important and that is what they would fund hopefully first responders.  But we don't know.  What we are asking staff to do is look at a crystal ball and tell us what might be left.  State and federal grants.  Will they come back?  Who knows pay property tax?  What will they look like.  Sales tax, that's probably how we are going to be funded at the county level.  The state sales tax will have to go up, most likely.  That leaves road bonding send general obligation bonds.  I am also looking in a crystal ball.  I don't know what we would be left with.  We are giving you a hard task.  

>>  I appreciate that.  I will say when you get into road funding, it has its own unique characteristics.  When you're talking about the department of transportation and gas tax, the index the gas tax.  We are not allowed to do that.  We have not been able to keep up with any kind of inflation or construction inflation far outpaced regular and that is one of the issues.  We basically bring in the same amount of money we brought for the 30 years I have been here.  You know the prices of everything have skyrocketed.  Remember giving a very similar presentation when we were talking about roads being around $1 million.  That is what transpired in that period of time.  So now again, maybe the safer thing is the bonding of the gas tax that then we have to work on the gas tax.  At the end of the day if we don't get to index it.  And of course the of electric vehicles cutting into it.  And again, good strategy is to work with the Department of Transportation and go to Tallahassee.  They have been very good to us through the years with road funding.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Councilman Santiago.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I will be brief.  I agree with the workshop when you look at this list, there is so much on it.  Weekly we don't have the funds to do the whole list.  This is probably the list we felt we could put on paper much more out there.  I was driving nearby the first section that was why didn't.  You can see it is starting to fall apart slowly.  Man, we are going to need to find soon.  And I said to myself I don't know where we are going to get it.  That brings that we have huge priorities on road projects and we will have to make a tough decision soon.  I agree the referendum is going to go with the legislature but we shouldn't wait for that.  Whatever the referendum happens will be years away.  We need to act.  The workshop may be give direction and maybe it's a combination of multiple things.  I don't think we should look at one funding option.  We have to get serious about roads.  I'm not blaming anybody.  I'm just saying we are going to have to make tough decisions.  And I am ready to make them.  I look forward to the workshop.  Thank you chair.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Councilman Robbins?  

>> DANNY ROBINS: Is then still appear?  Do you know how much has been spoken for out of that 5 million?  Roughly?  

>>  A lot of it has been spoken for.  We allocated some of it to save safety projects we are working on some of that depends on what we decide to do with old mission.  Whether we move forward with that as a safety project or an expansion.  Although that has been spoken for for this year.  

>> DANNY ROBINS: My follow-up to that, I'm seeing smaller, not smaller in comparison to the big ones but project name orange lane widening, with that benefit us?  And the other two were the.[NAME] Farms Rd., #5.  Extension alignment study.  Is that low hanging fruit?  Is that something we would benefit addressing these, giving you direction today?  

>>  The orange camp road widening was item number 22.  That has occurred already.  And that has generated the items noted as number two as orange camp projects.  The road extension you could certainly, we haven't started that.  We have not brought a consultant on board.  We have money allocated for that.  

>>  Can we take any action today?  We only talk about this stuff.  

>>  You could take us action on this.  Moved on the priority list if you want to move that to some of the maintenance projects we have got, that's fine.  

>> DANNY ROBINS: I am good with whatever direction we want to go.  I just wanted to see what and if there was anything we could do today.  

>>  A good portion of what we have funded that has funding allocated to it is impact fee or proportionate fair share.  That is money generally not used for maintenance.  It is for capacity projects.  Unless they make the decision to change that.  

>>  Just for clarity, I think I heard you say earlier that to holiday project, seven and 10 are the two that are not fully funded at the moment, which I heard the other eight do have funding.  I wanted to make sure that was clear.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: You are talking about page 2 of the list.  

>> TADD KASBEER: To and three.  One thing we would seek direction on, we held off on the old mission road safety project, which is where we are moving the two lanes away from the canal there to improve safety.  We held off because the request potentially going to a four-lane.  We stopped that project pending the decision on different direction.  The sooner I get direction the better as to whether or not we fix that problem or change.  Book what are our options for that that are holding us up?  

>> TADD KASBEER: At this point if it is the councils direction to get four lanes.  If that is the case we told the current consultant to stop work on the design and we start making modifications to prepare for the design of the four-lane.  

>> Our recommendation would be too stay with the safety project at this time.  As you see the needs are great and I think that expansion of that particular road, they have other options.  When you start taking.  You are talking about finding a canal or a dig of that size, now you're moving into the $10 million plus area.  My recommendation would be too go with the safety project he has on there now.  

>> MATT REINHART, VICE CHAIR: I am good with that.  

>> TADD KASBEER: We will keep that moving forward.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Councilman Kent.

>> TROY KENT: -- things I heard were refreshing.  I'm glad that you talked about us making tough real decisions in the near future.  Mr. Johansson, you are right.  A healthy discussion is what is needed.  I will just tell you this, Council.  I know some you get up to Ormond pretty regularly, others not as much.  But I would dare to say their road to second to none in Volusia County.  And why is that?  Why?  Because we had a roads program.  We put a dedicated millage aside and said we are going to spend this on our roads every year because when you don't do that this is what happens and we start relying on the legislature.  And you are right, David, it's going to be a difficult decision and Jake, healthy discussion have to say how much are we going to put aside?  Because George is spot on, and he's right.  It wasn't that long ago.  When it was $1 million a mile now he is talking to lanes between seven and 8 million on my own.  But if we don't do it now, listen, not just this Council but those who sit in these rented seats after we are gone, we are burdening them.  We are really burdening are the taxpayers, our children that you're going to have to pay for this one day and it is just getting more expensive.  I only say that so if any of us are on the fence we have open mind when we go into the workshop setting about setting a certain amount of our millage aside for this.  I don't know if staff will be crazy.  When you take money from this pot and you don't have as much left over here.  But we have to make the tough decision about infrastructure and roads.  And $12 million doesn't touch it.  We have to be talking a minimum of $50 million a year.  When you hear that you think that is not enough.  But you do that for five years in a row you will be shocked what you can get done.  And then we aren't trying to pull 5 million bucks to pull out of this pocket to put over here for this pocket.  I look forward to that discussion because I've heard refreshing things on the dais tonight.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Is going to come down to priorities.  Councilman Johansson.

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: Which, Mr. Kent, is why I am up on some type of bond.  Because without saying millage, you are obligating millage to pay off that bond.  And as long as the interest rate is conducive to bonding, you are paying for that hopefully in today's dollars.  The problem is you have to spend that money quick.  If this can that money real quick.  That is an opportunity to pay for a mile when it is 8 million a mile, instead of like we did with impact fees we save it up in here is our $8 million, that was 15 years ago.  It's 20 million a mile and you only have eight.  We have to be careful about that.  We don't know how we back the bond but that will come with time.  

>>  Maybe you will be open to hybrid approach where we do a bond and we have a dedicated millage.  May be dedicated millage is less amount because we put so much out in the bond.  

>>  Keep in mind to start a road project is not something we say let's go do it and we start moving bulldozers.  It will take a couple years to build up the design plans get the right-of-way required.  

>>  That is why you are there where you are.  You are that good.  You have the stuff ready to rock 'n' roll and we see the money is there.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Councilman Santiago.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I'm going to occur throw a curveball in here.  A couple of minutes ago -- I am going to say sales tax.  I'm not advocating for the sales tax, but I am making a statement I don't think we should be as shortsighted until we have the information.  And I don't know where my answer lies because an initial analysis of it.  If we are talking millage we are going to try to hind hide it under a bond, guess who pays for it?  The homeowners.  A sales tax, if it goes that route guess who it is paid by?  Everyone.  I don't know how many visitors get.  The visitors who come here all the time, they pay for our roads too.  I know the sales tax argument has been taboo because of the failures, I will use that word, on the last attempt to do it.  Not looking to point fingers, but I think it is shortsighted right now until we have the facts.  I rather have staff saying if we do bonding and millage, this is who pays for it.  If we do sales tax this is the amount this is how it affects local residents.  We shouldn't be confined to not looking at all the options until we have the data.  That is the best approach and maybe it is a hybrid a different things.  If there is support to go down sales tax we have to figure out what were the mistakes of the past.  And a law had to do with communication.  If it goes down the path.  Not advocating for it but I don't think we should eliminate it.  I think we should have the data.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Councilman Johansson.

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: Just one question.  To be asked.  No, I will let in for now.  I'm looking forward to the workshop.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Next item.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: We have two members of the public would like to speak to this before we make a final decision.  First is Keith Chester.  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: You can refer to me as troll if you like.  It's fine.  I wear it with pride.  The reason the sales tax failed was because of things that had occurred before it.  We plainly didn't trust the government to do what it is supposed to do.  The sales tax is the most fair way to go because the young people I always talk about that I advocate for, they pay some but we pay too.  Mr. Nicholson pays a little bit and he wouldn't mind at all that weight everybody is paying into the pot.  Is started out for sales tax for roads and it grew and grew and got to be a sales tax for whatever we wanted to do.  I'm excited to hear you talking about doing something.  The reason why you are at where you are today is because they can has been kicked on the road for over a decade.  The people who started all the politicians before you that started the cultural funding and all that stuff when they should have been paying attention to the core governmental responsibilities got you to where you are today.  I'm not against culture.  Cultural things.  But I'm against when we have all these core needs that aren't being met that you are giving the money away.  Regardless of what people say the return on investment is.  Your core responsibilities are being handled and they haven't been.  You don't want to be the Council levels like the six, seven, eight councils before you that kept kicking the can down the road.  And now we aren't aware we are.  And then figure whatever we do, it has to be something.  There has to be a dedicated fund.  It's not just about the big main roads, it's about our neighborhoods pickets about funding sidewalks.  There has been a lot of growth down marsh road.  We allowed Stetson to put a facility down there.  Is a dog facility you will approve down there, there's ballfields the land has down there in certain times a day that road gets real busy.  That is just one of many.  And there are some developments that went back there and I call and say it be nice to extend the sidewalk out to 92 where there is a trail for safety.  There's a lot of kids living here.  And staff asked to say we only got $300,000 a year for sidewalks.  When we have over a thousand miles of roads.  That is pretty sad.  I think we have priority issues we need to address.  I am excited you are talking about it.  The fact is when we have well-built and well designed roads and infrastructure the benefits everybody, everybody benefits when you do your job well in this area.  From the businesses who want to come here that are able to get around to the citizens.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  John Nicholson?  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: I absolutely do.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: You pardoned your time.  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: That's fine.  Daytona Beach side.  I believe prices do go up.  A couple of things.  To answer your question, the sales tax was supposed to raise $44 million.  The last time they did that, looking into the figures it was $68 million.  So over the five-year period it went up 50 percent.  It's only a half $1 billion you choose to give away or ignore for roads or improvements of you ignore the sales tax.  If you think half $1 billion gift from Justin to risk, not the whole sales tax, just the tourist is half a billion dollars over 20 years.  I'm not too about to ignore someone giving me half $1 billion when I need it.  Personally I think all five should be looked at.  There's no way you are not going to look at grants.  You are going to look at federal grants, you're going to look at state grants.  That is a given.  The reason the sales tax actually failed was the impact fees.  People were tipped you went 17 years and would not raise impact fees but you turn around and say we need to tax you to do the roads to do the development.  Do you understand why they say no?  All the people responding said it was the impact fees now you raised it Daytona Beach after 19 years finally raised it, they were a little bit late.  That is a given.  It did go obnoxiously all over the place.  We want roads, want lights, we want flowers.  They want the road.  If you can guarantee there is a list right here, this is where the money is going to go.  Another section is this is where the money is going to go for flooding.  I'm telling you, flooding is an important issue right now and it will play in important fact on the elections.  If you put a sales tax, half to sales tax, half going to have a structure, half going to flooding.  And listing just these, it will pass.  You have done your impact fee, you have done what you can do.  It was I think a 200 million quote a year ago what we needed.  We are not going to ever get to $200 million.  Now, it is easy to look at what Orman got from whatever percentage they did, because I'm in favor of that.  How much would that raise?  If we do the same, nobody from what I understand complained about Orman.  Complained about us as well.  Thank you.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: That ends public comment on that item.  Let's wrap this up.  We are asking staff to bring this back for a workshop.  A few minutes ago we got a consensus to take sales tax off.  I did not ask for a formal vote.  I looked up and down and everybody.  Somebody made a motion and second.  I think we need to take a formal vote because I don't want to ask them to waste time on an item.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I would like to discourage us taking a formal vote.  I think it should just be us discussing to say bring all options to us.  Just bring all options.  Spoke I did that before and everybody shook their head.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I think it is cleaner to say bring all options to us for discussion and consideration and at that point we can decide.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: I agree.  We are going to have the numbers, you almost have them here.  It is not about that.  What are some of the processes that would be needed to do the road bond in the general obligation bond.  I think we know what the sales tax procedure is going to be and we could touch on that.  Even in the general obligation I believe that is something that has to go to the voters as well.  When you are talking voters you are going up that the program.  You're going to have to have a list.  We would look at that versus the road bond buying something or you're going to take our gas tax and look at that.  I think we can put together a pretty good and concise workshop.  Here is the dollar amounts, here are the lists in here of the options that entail.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: From what I am hearing, you bring it back not a time certain but when it is Brady.  

>>  I Thank you will have a goal setting in January.  I think we ought to touch on this stuff with that in right thereafter may be in February.  If that works.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Anything else?  All right.  Thank you.  Item 5 is a quasijudicial hearing on a proposed vacation of a portion of the map of how and couriers allotment.  

>>  Motion to approve.

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: Second, Johansson.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Okay.  Hold up a second.  We have a motion to approve, Councilman Robbins.  A second by Councilman Johansson.  Does anyone have any ex parte to declare?  No?  Okay.  I just needed to get that in.  Does anybody need a presentation?  Okay.  Any questions?  All in favor of the proposed vacation please say aye.  Any opposed?  It is approved 7/0.  Item 6 2025-2016 small-scale comprehensive plan amendment from the agricultural resource to rural future land use designation for a 1.0 acre property located on north Sale Rd. delay in.  

>>  Good evening.  Carol McFarlane planning and service of element services director.  Item 6 is a future land use amendment and item 7 is an accompanying rezoning application.  With your permission I would like to do the presentation for both items at once.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: That is great to do it that way.  Let me ask if there is any X partake.  Okay.  Go ahead, proceed.

>> CAROL MCFARLANE: When you vote the vote will have to be separate but we will do that presentation as one.  This is a one acre parcel located on the south side of shell road.  Its future land use is agricultural resource which has a density of one dwelling unit per 10 acres in the zoning is a one private agriculture also one dwelling unit per 10 acres.  They are a nonconforming lot at one acre so they are asking for a rural future land use designation which allows density of one dwelling unit per five acres.  It can go down to one dwelling unit per one acre under certain criteria in the conference of plan.  Staff found it did not meet the criteria.  They recommend to deny.  The planning and land development regulation commission forwarded to the County Council with a recommendation of denial.  They found there could have been better due diligence, but I would say this is next to what is called a rural recreational area.  It is a historical fishing camp and hunting camp so you see lot sizes to the West that are smaller than what you would see in prime agriculture area.  There are three little parcels.  I Thank you can see it on the map above.  That are all one acre.  The three parcels, of which this one is the middle one from an abandoned 1926 plat.  Those three parcels were the first three sold and after that development fell apart nothing else was sold, the plat was vacated.  And so with that the PLDRC heard the case July 17, 2025.  Voted to deny on a 4/2 vote and I am here for questions.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Okay.  Questions for staff?  Councilman Robin.

>> DANNY ROBINS: Thank you Chair.  Thank you Robin as well.  What are our options?  If we could pull the map back up.  ICD concerns, but I also see some obvious intent back in 1926.  Obviously it has probably since changed.  But as you said, it is kind of like a recreational.  It is like buying a lot up against Ocala National Forest or even out here in Tiger Bay.  There are three nonconforming lots there.  How do we look at the property rights issue and let them, let them possibly do something.  What is the purpose of having land if you can't put it.  

>>  If I could I would say the future land use amendment that is a legislative decision.  The Council does have discretion in that.  

>> DANNY ROBINS: And those are the only three parcels that are nonconforming?  

>>  Correct.  The two on either side or both owned by the person who owns the 40 piece acre to the south.  Those are all in one ownership.  

>> DANNY ROBINS: It is the middle one.  

>> DANNY ROBINS: I am open for suggestions.  I would hate to deny somebody I use it.  I am familiar with this area.  It is rural outdoor recreation.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Staff recommended denial because it didn't meet the criteria.  What didn't it meet?  

>>  There's a great year that says in order to have the lot sizes that it be adjacent to an urban land use pick the fish camp is a rural land use.  

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: Chair?  Carol, how much where the map is in red?  How big are some of those parcels like three parcels away like the long thin once.

>> CAROL MCFARLANE: Very small.  Goes from two acres.  One of them is three acres.  Down to probably I would guess 7000 square feet.  

>>  1/2 acre all the way up to -- we have some of the small lots, Council.  I don't know.  Don, what do you think?  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Before any other questions, do you have a question for Carol?  Let's do questions and then debate.  Okay.  There are no other questions.  Don, you didn't have your name up but if you would like to answer his question.  

>> DON DEMPSEY: I don't have any opposition to their request.  I kind of agree with you, Danny.  

>>  I can make the motion to open it up.  I will make the motion to approve 2025-16 small-scale comprehensive plan amendment.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Councilman Robbins makes the motion to approve and that was seconded by Dempsey.  Councilman Johansson.  

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: Thank you sir.  I like the idea of getting the yes.  I talk about that all the time.  But I also stressed the importance of personal responsibility and this lady or gentleman, this person bought this property and no I'm understanding is trying to make it fit his needs which had no future land use of his needs.  If we go down this road, and I have no problem going down this road, but we can't stand on our high horse and say the zoning doesn't say can be that way and therefore we can't do it.  If we are going to have latitude, we are going to have latitude every time.  And we don't sometimes pick on light getting people where they need to go.  It looks like it is the middle of nowhere, and lot of things like it around the corner.  I also have a personal responsibility peace.  Know what you are doing and know what you can do with it and know what you can't do with it.  We have run into this before.  I caution us if we go that way.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Councilman Robbins?  

>> DANNY ROBINS: Thank you chair.  Carol, do you have the language and plot description from back in 1926?  What it says?  

>> CAROL MCFARLANE: I do not have that in front of me.  I have looked at that plat.  It is a very standard one sheet plat.  What would you be interested in.  

>>  Was it acceptable back then?  

>> CAROL MCFARLANE: We didn't have zoning back then.  

>> DANNY ROBINS: I know.  It is broken down into boxes so obviously it is conforming were fitting for that time.  I know it is 100 years.  

>>  The three parcels are whole lots from that plat.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Councilman Santiago.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Question for Danny.  Your argument on the question that we just made to staff.  If you don't mind.  Because I am on the fence.  Can you'll me understand the argument and point you made and how that pertains to us approving this today?  

>>  If you look at the other map here, that was the direction they were going for this not small nonconforming lots and these funds carry over.  Probably the guy could have done more due diligence, but zoom out a little bit and look at everything else.  We can't say it is not consistent with the area because it is.  50 feet they are able to do it and 50 feet this way they are not?  I see a consistency there.  Like Jake said, I just want to get somebody to a yes.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Can I ask another question.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Yes and are you going to help us with this?  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I will wait.  

>>  Ray.  When Carol was doing her presentation she was talking about a little bit about your conference a plan criteria.  That staff felt at the time wasn't consistent, or your planning board did.  That is being adjacent to urban, right?  It needed to be adjacent to that criteria was not met.  However, as Carol pointed out it is actually not rural next to it either she talked about the different lot sizes and some of them are pretty small.  Is a legislative matter you could probably make that determination it is adjacent to an urban type use.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Question, Mr. chair?  Where would be the closest urban type use.  Is it that pink area?  Is that what you are suggesting?  

>>  Yes.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Okay.  Councilman Kent.

>> TROY KENT: The seven of us observed together coming up on five years.  What I'm finding interesting is I'm sitting here and some things are predictable, and I like that.  And learning about you gentlemen where you stand on things.  Jake wants to get to a yes and I appreciate that.  And Danny I have found is usually the one who is trying to explain to us why we need to change the rules that we have in place.  I have historically been the guy who is like this is what the rules say, this is what you are going to do, and you knew what you were buying when you got into it.  So Jake, I'm with you on that.  And Danny, I want to be like Jake and say let's get to a yes, but I am leaning more toward a no on this one because you knew what you were getting when you were buying it.  When does it stop?  When do you say you are 50 feet away but what is wrong with 500 feet away.  It is only 500 feet.  8000 feet away.  It is only a thousand feet away.  When does it stop?  I am kind of big on we have rules in place for a reason.  Let's follow those rules.  That is where I am.  Thanks.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Councilman Dempsey?  

>> DON DEMPSEY: Maybe I can get you back over, Troy.  It ends when you say it ends, when this dais subsidence.  Whether it is us with the next Council.  This is out in the middle of nowhere.  I don't see the harm in this.  I agree with what Danny is saying.  Moving so many feet over from an urban typesetting already, I don't think it is a big of a deal.  None of us about smart that we can sit there make these rules in these rules or the correct ruling the matter how they are applied to.  We are not dealing with a one-size-fits-all set of rules that applies in every scenario.  Rules are subject to interpretation and their are exceptions to the rule.  I think it is the highest and best use of the property of this is how the landowner wants to do it.  I don't see any harm with it.  I am a yes on this.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Okay.  I have another question.  Sorry, I know we are past questions but this discussion has made me think of Daytona Park Estates.  I would like to ask staff, is Ben here?  George, are you aware.  I'm thinking about, George is not here.  Suzanne.  

>>  I'm going to hope Tadd or Ben are listening because I Thank you will ask about road maintenance?  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Is the County going to have to maintain the road which becomes a nightmare at times?  What about sewer?  

>>  We don't have any super but there would be septic.  Carol, do you have information on the condition of shell road currently?  

>> CAROL MCFARLANE: No, I do not.  

>>  Okay.  Here come the gentleman.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: On item 6 Shell Rd.  If this is approved, how does it affect, does it obligate the County to maintain his entrance road for him?  

>>  No.  Typically in these situations if it is not to a county, if they are not building it to a county standard we have them file a notice to future owners that they are not obligated to maintain the road in perpetuity.  To a minimum standard that allows fire Department access.  If they don't want to build it to the county standard.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: I have seen that happen a lot of times.  Shell is ours.  

>>  And thought you were talking about if there is an access road coming off of there.  Shell is ours to maintain.  We maintain that currently.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: His entrance wait is his to maintain.  Is there a driveway there now?  

>>  I'm not aware but he would have to construct one.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: On the right.  Thank you.  Councilman Robbins?  

>> DANNY ROBINS: Chair, to help answer your question, I have been out there quite a bit because there is a vote ramp right at the end.  It is kind of like that old fish camp there.  That road is actually a well maintained road, it is super wide.  Washboard at times but that is standard with shell road.  There's no access issues there.  I believe that is part of the forests, one of the forests they are and they long get quite a bit and do controlled burns.  You can get equipment in and out of there.  I would say there are no emergency issues.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: We have one member of the public who wants to speak on six and one on seven.  Gerald Lewis.  Are you still here?  I'm afraid if I don't have you speak now, if we don't approve this then seven dies.  You can come up first and then John Nicholson wanted to speak on this item and then we will proceed with a vote. 

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: Gerald Lewis, DeBary Florida and owner of the property.  I am just hoping that it does swing my way.  When we first looked at it we were looking at the idea that it would be a difficult situation to turn it over because of the two other lots.  At the time we didn't know it was owned by the larger individual that owns all the property there.  But still it was close to the existing residence.  We fell at this point.  I did not know there was that much of a challenge with the conforming aspect of it.  I thought it was a piece of property.  It is an acre.  More than most of the other lots and the other portion where the camp area.  It is going to be our residents future so I didn't think it would be that much.  Major problem at that point.  But again, it is what it is.  I hope we can work it out because I would like to build on that property for my wife and I. But it is what it is.  Thank you.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: John Nicholson?  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: John Nicholson.  Looking at the maps, unlike the idea of existing future land use map proposed future land use map.  Both yellow, except for this property.  Once you start down a road, I saw this in Miami and I see it here.  Especially in Daytona Beach.  Once they go in, it's built.  You have heard from more than one resident about overbuilding.  Flooding comes up all the time and they relate the flooding to the older building.  You are going into an area that is not developed.  All around it is developed.  When you start to go into this and he now has a small piece of property that has been rezoned, the gentleman who owns that entire yellow piece of property is entitled because everything around is zoned for small lots.  It would be in his best interest if you owned all that yellow property to development into small lots pick it makes you a heck of a lot more money than keeping it as it is.  If the future land use is we want to keep it residential as long as we can, we don't want to incrementally break that down.  People say what is the matter because it is across the way.  Across from the house are stories.  I don't want them next to me, although there is someone pushing the city to allow stores anywhere in the neighborhood because I am beach side where the tourists are.  They want shops and whatnot next to my house.  They wanted parking from Main Street.  Parking, paid parking is commercial.  It would really change the character.  If you start with this one block it will start the ball rolling and change the character of the area.  Thank you.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  I will say this and I've been sitting on the fence.  Hear the property owner in your heart wants to say yes.  I have been opposed to changing comp plan zonings actually because of the reasons Mr. Nicholson said.  Once you do that it often does start a cascading effect.  Asia will be when it comes to us to do that is somebody with a large piece of property that does want to change the character of a neighborhood with hundreds of houses.  Everything around him staff said was owned by one person?  

>>  I apologize.  What was the question?  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Everything around Mr. Lewis is property was owned by one person?  

>>  It is a business entity, it is an LLC and there is temple and operations on the larger parcel.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: No intent right now to change it?  

>>  We do not have any applications on this property.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: If we change this?  

>>  It would go to the County Council.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: If we change this, well, I could do that too and sell this land for development, but it would be limited to one house.  Unless we are doing what we are doing right now and change it.  Agricultural re-houses one house per 

>>  10 acres and one house per five acres.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Okay.  Councilman Robin.

>> DANNY ROBINS: Why couldn't it be changed to a RR which is a rural designation which is a minimum of one acre.  

>>  That is with the rezoning application is.  

>>  It still fits the rural character of our comp plan.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Just to follow-up on the tremendous questions I want to make sure I understand too.  Know you referenced of the larger parcel.  What is to stop them from coming in.  Though they already touched the pink area?  Part of the delimit is it didn't touch the pink area.  It touches the pink area already.  I wanted to make sure I was clearly understanding that.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: I just don't want to see the whole area go pink.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: We have a motion on the table by Councilman Robbins to improve.  Second by Don 
--
>> DON DEMPSEY: Yes.

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: Yes.

>> TROY KENT: No.

>> MATT REINHART, VICE CHAIR: Yes.

>> DANNY ROBINS: Yes.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Yes.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: No.  The motion passes for approval 5/2.  All right.  Item 7. 

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Moved to approved.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Item 7 is the second half of item 6 and Mr. Santiago makes I'd motion to approve.  All in favor say aye.  Any opposed?  Carries unanimously.  Item 8 second public hearing concerning resolution of the County Council of Volusia County Florida expanding the geographic area of the County seat pursuant to Florida law.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Motion to approve.  

>>  Second.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: The new sheriff building motion to approve by vice chair Reinhart in the second by Councilman Santiago.  Any questions for Ross Brown?  All in favor say aye.  Any opposed?  Motion care is 7/0.  Item 9 authorization of reimbursement resolution and preliminary matters for capitol improvements.  Not ad valorem.  Ryan?  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Move to approve.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: You were just waiting for him to speak?  

>>  I attached a conference of agenda summary of the of question.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Motion to approve by David Santiago.  I did not hear who the second was from.  The second was from Danny Robbins.  Any questions for Ryan?  Any debate?  All in favor say aye.  Any opposed?  Motion carries 6/0.  I think he said his vote was affirmative on the way out so motion carries 6/0.  Item 10 budget resolution acceptance of the FAA release and authorization to purchase Olson back property from Daytona Beach international Airport.  

>>  Motion to approve.  

>>  Second.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Motion to approve by vice chair Reinhart, second by Councilman Santiago.  Any questions for Ryan?  

>>  No questions but I will tell the Council I spoke with George about this.  I found this weird and George explained the weirdness to me with airport property and we are paying for it from this fund.  I get it, but I wanted the Council to know, what is going on with this.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: I bet you were not the only one.  Ryan answered the question for me.  

>>  That is why we are here.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Saves us money is the bottom line for me.  

>>  You are welcome.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: And the other questions?  Debate?  All in favor say aye.  Any opposed?  That item passes 6/0.  We will get Danny's vote on item 10 when he comes back.  Item 11 is an appointment to the SunRail customer advisory committee.  

>>  You only have one applicant.  He is seeking reappointment.  You do have to ride SunRail three times a week and he does.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Moved to approve.

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: Second.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: David Santiago makes the motion.  A second from Councilman Johansson to appoint, reappoint.  Any questions?  All in favor of the appointment say aye.  Any opposed?  That also passes 6/0.  And we will get Mr. Robbins vote on item 10.  

>> DANNY ROBINS: Aye.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Becomes 7/0 and item 11 the appointment of Satchel.  Apologize for that.  That brings us back to public participation for all of you that have waited.  I'm going to do what I did before and call several names so you can come up and get ready.  First we have Janet.  Pardon me?  That is a c-k at the end?  And then Troy Henderson.  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: Good evening.  My name is Janet.  I live in the fourth district Ormond Beach.  I'm here as a local example of what the D.C. lawyer was speaking on tonight.  I am a wife, mother of four and resident of Volusia County for 10 years.  I am a homeschooling mom and I'm directed multiple homeschool co-op here.  My husband Todd in Volusia County schools and three of our children work locally.  Prior to May 14, 2025 I have no, no record and had never been in trouble with the law.  On the day I was falsely arrested by the police department on a third-degree felony charge, interference with child custody related to a Family Court case that I was not even a party to.  My bond was set at an astounding 200,000, more than many violent offenders with the pick this arrest came one week after he Volusia County court judge during a Family Court case involving our close friend threatened to quote unquote put someone in orange jumpsuit if the 16-year-old son did not return to his abusive mothers home after running way.  By false arrest happened as a result of the family being misrepresented in a Family Court case we weren't a party to.  Because of our efforts to support our friend Troy Henderson and his children were slandered and defamed by the Guardian ad litem, which the judge allowed.  Over the duration of the Anderson family time in Family Court we watched as many abuses of power took place.  My children's best friends for close to 10 years were the children involved in the case, and what happened to them was heartbreaking.  In January a Family Court judge put in ex parte order which violated due process to take one of the minor children unlawfully from his father's home who had been living with exclusively for 15 months, into the abusive mothers home against his will.  The judge recused herself with no explanation.  The next judge upheld the unlawful order in a 12-year-old boy was forcefully removed against his will by police in a corrupt argument item.  At that point was court ordered both children have no contact with their father.  There was never any allegations of abuse against the father, he was always the protective parent and the mother was under DCF investigation.  The week before my arrest I intended Troy's final divorce hearing from my husband and I stayed in the hallway since we might be called as witnesses.  Over three days who witnessed alarming conduct the children were never allowed to speak, even in private to the judge picked the Guardian ad litem misrepresented them the judge repeatedly stormed out of the courtroom slamming the door picked the Guardian ad litem was seen entering the judges quarters privately.  At one point the judge called everyone into the hallway and threatened -- later five officers came to my home and arrested me.  In front of my family and eight-year-old son.  My elderly parents bonded me out with $20,000.  In the days that followed it became apparent our arrest was based on false information, not indictment.  Thank you.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  Troy Henderson?  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: My name is Troy Henderson.  I'm in the fourth district my father before and can no longer stay silent about the systemic failures I experienced firsthand in our local family criminal courts over the past 18 months.  During my time in Family Court I was denied access to counsel by a general magistrate and a judge, barred from prison in critical evidence, presented from calling witnesses and key hearings and excluded from illegal ex parte hearings.  The Guardian ad litem who was neither certified by the state nor impartial misled the court, DCF, and therapists.  She engaged in inappropriate communication with one party, even gifting that parent items all while coursing my children into arrangements they did not want.  She perjured herself in court, held private unlawful meetings with the judge, and showed a blatant disregard for truth or neutrality.  In December 2024 I was forced to represent myself before the first judge defending against false allegations of parental alienation.  During that hearing the so-called therapist admitted his claims were based on discredited pseudoscience.  However, in January 2025 during an active hearing that same judge issued an unlawful ex parte order which led to the forcible seizure by Ormond Beach police the holy one of my children without providing me the ability to present any exculpatory evidence.  The next day that judge recused herself and left my child with the parent under an active DCF investigation cut off from he and his brothers.  Not being able to communicate with my son and having no idea when I would see him again was devastating, not just for him but his brothers and me.  The judge who took over was even more erratic.  She had emotional outbursts in the court, stormed out of the courtroom, threatened the entire courtroom with Jill, met privately with the Guardian ad litem, refused to hear from the teenagers involved even though the police said they would make that happen, and reversed her own ruling in writing with no legal explanation.  When my two youngest children ran away from their abusive mother to escape unsafe conditions my best friend who just spoke and I were trying to help them and were falsely arrested on information, not indictment, for third-degree felony interference with child custody.  We were jailed under an exorbitant $200,000 bond, even after no contempt finding in the Family Court and no credible evidence from the state prosecutor.  Meanwhile, those who violated the laws and procedures can the judges the court officers and others have faced no accountability.  This is not justice, it's a broken system that punishes parents for speaking up and enables unchecked power and puts children at risk.  I respectfully urge the Council to investigate this misconduct started with judges, magistrates and Guardian ad litem spirit we need transparency, accountability, and reform before more families and children in the County are harmed.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  Tera?  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: I am speaking as a mother and a Volusia County resident for my family and others across the seven judicial circuit whose trust in their institutions is breaking down her families are being silenced, retaliated against and denied due process.  Court enabled abductions and school restrictions are happening with no hearings, no evidence, no accountability.  The system is meant to protect our children now protect themselves.  In my case I was indefinitely barred for my children school in Volusia County, no notice, no hearing, cut off from a child's IEP process, stripped of rights guaranteed by law.  When I sought relief I was blocked from filing.  I'm now labeled vexatious while my children were taken in return and taken again.  No abuse, no neglect then placed under the control of a documented substance abuser.  Doctors and therapists confirm no concerns with me yet false statements from another Guardian ad litem in my abuser were accepted as true.  I have even been gagged from naming the Guardian ad litem now who still is working in Volusia County cases harming other families.  These restrictions followed off record communications between court administration Mark Weinberg and Chief Judge Leah case who Volusia today just interviewed.  On October 13.  This happened after I exposed serious misconduct.  Then on July 22 right here in this chamber envelopes bearing the name of the deceased clerk were waived publicly.  Legal mail tied to my active criminal court case was sent in her name years after her death.  After that meeting Councilman Don Dempsey held a private discussion without the public present.  His law office works alongside attorneys implicated in these very same harms, including Brett who continues to intimidate parents through threats and emails under protection of the courts, the sheriff, and the delay in Police Department.  Meanwhile County and city attorneys access my criminal case using their government credentials despite being nonparties.  I asked why and not one of you has responded to my emails.  That should have triggered investigation, instead it has been nothing but silence.  A deceased officials name is being used on official mail and no one explained how or why pick the only responses I received is from Sheriff Mike calling me mental and crazy in the clerk counsel Antonio James threatening me to stay quiet.  Let it be clear I will not be silenced.  This counsel can't control judges or the sheriff, I am well aware of that, but it can lead, and I'm going to ask you that you proclaim in the May 25 the family abduction awareness day be County wide following Daytona Beach lead that Chris Fedler wrote Mr. Brower and you guys did a proclamation for that.  I'm asking in countywide.  All of our families are being affected.  Hold a public workshop on parent access, mail handling integrity and records procedures, request written policies from the school board.  Thank you.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: Good afternoon but it is good evening now.  My name is Michelle and I am from Port Orange.  I am a mother for six months I have been completely separated from my 14-year-old daughter.  No calls, no visits, not even the sound of her voice.  The separation begin with an ex partake order signed by a Volusia County judge written and submitted by the Guardian ad litem who claimed my daughter would be in physical and emotional danger if she wasn't immediately removed.  This false statement resulted in the sheriffs being sent to a public skating facility where my daughter was attending her lessons with her peers and coaches.  In front of everyone she was taken away.  14 years old, humiliated and terrified without warning, without evidence and without due process.  Let me be clear, I have never been in jail.  I've never been charged with a crime.  I have no criminal background.  I have been a hands-on mother, the PTA mom, the team mom, that your mom, the volunteer in the classroom, the kind appear in every community depends on.  I also have 25 signed notarized character reference affidavits from people who personally know my daughter and I.  Each affirming they have only ever seen loving, stable and nurturing relationships between us.  Despite that I have been erased from her life.  Not because evidence but because the system allowed one-sided decisions to stand with no oversight or accountability.  This shattered more than our bond, it has affected our entire family.  We lost both of my parents, which are my daughter's grandparents, months apart for June 2024 and the most recently February of 2025.  Only weeks later April 16 is when she was taken with no contact allowed at all.  Our family is not been able to grieve together, to support one another, or even comfort her through that loss.  Her little cousins asked me where is she every time they ask when is she coming back and I have no answer.  Implored appearance of constitutional rights to raise their children and be heard before those rights are taken away.  Under Florida statute 6113, all custody decisions will serve in the best interest of the trial and that maintains a loving relationship with both parents.  When those protections are ignored in taxpayer-funded professionals profit from conflict instead of reunification, the system itself becomes abusive.  This is not just my tragedy, it's a public issue.  Your tax dollars are paying the salaries of the judges, the Guardian ad litem, psychologist and attorneys.  While children like my daughter suffer the emotional consequences.  We are asking the commission to take notice, investigate how County funds are being spent, and to ensure families are being helped and not harmed.  I will never stop fighting for my daughter for every child in Volusia County who deserves to be reunited with a loving parent.  Because right now the people paid to protect are the ones destroying our families and while they go home at 5:00, my daughter goes to bed each night without her mother.  Thank you.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Heather?  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: These are my four children.  My name is Heather.  I am a mother of four, certified public school teacher in our state, yet I am blocked from even speaking to my children.  August 13, 2021 under fraudulent orders lacking any lawful jurisdiction, three of my four children were unlawfully transferred from Illinois to Florida by Illinois circuit 19.  Despite me holding sole legal custody at the time of the transfer.  In 2023 my oldest daughter was dragged down here against her will.  Then came to find out I had the only legal custody of her pick the transfers did not comply with UCCJA rules.  This was not a lawful relocation, this was to enable child trafficking under the color of law.  Since arriving in Florida the corruption is deep in.  Judge Warren in November 2024, issued in illegal contempt order against me punishing me for attempting to defend my parental rights.  You recused yourself after exposed to conduct through public records request.  Judge Sandra Upchurch, you deny my emergency motion for custody citing unfamiliarity with Florida's emergency custody law, 12.94 1D.  This isn't just negligence, this is willful ignorance in the face of child endangerment.  General magistrate Alexander Alvarez, you ignored my sworn evidence of neglect and abuse.  Evidence that includes Daytona police reports, school absences, and child disclosures.  You were put on notice, you did nothing.  Child support hearing officer Neil Kaufman in June 2025 hearing you silence my testimony and refused to allow me to get us the validity of enforcement on avoid foreign order.  Ellen Holt representing Florida Department of revenue, you are actively working to garnish my teachers wages for support order that was never legally registered under UI SSA while ignoring my legal objections.  Let us not forget Justin, the father documented for abuse in Illinois police reports now holds my children hostage indeed on the beach where they have been consistently and academically failing with GPAs near 1.0 in Volusia County schools and is under investigation by DCF.  Despite all of this I, a dedicated educator and mother, is denied phone contact, visitation, or even updates about my children's well-being.  I have no criminal record.  I am a victim of judicial fraud and systemic bias stripped of my rights without due process, punished for surviving, for protecting and refusing to be silent.  This court has failed.  I exhausted every channel, motions, appeals, emergency writ including a writ of prohibition arguing the foreign order is void.  Still no one listens.  To the seventh judicial circuit of Florida, to Judge Orne, Upchurch, magistrate Alvarez, hearing officer Kaufman and DOR counsel Ellen Holt, I say we see you.  This is fraud upon the court under the color of law.  To the public, this is not an isolated tragedy.  This is how children are trafficked through the courtroom where my children are not lost, they are stolen.  I am demanding I be reunited with my children.  We the people of Volusia County demand investigation into my case and every other parent that speaks today.  Thank you.  You are next.  No?  Dana.  That is what I was going to say.  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: Good evening commissioners.  I'm here to ask you to take a stand for survivors of domestic violence and demand accountability and arc family courts.  My name is Dana and I am the founder and Executive Director of survivor center.  Serving survivors of domestic violence and Family Court abuse in Volusia County.  Just the spring Volusia County sheriff's office recorded 94 new domestic violence incident in a four-week period.  Nearly a 10 percent increase from the prior month.  These are not just numbers, they represent lives in danger and family seeking safety.  @Survivor Center we provide peer to peer advocacy and court accompaniment walking survivors through the legal system so that they are not alone when facing their abusers.  Our work has revealed systemic problems in the family court system.  Where survivors are re-victimized by the very process meant to protect them.  While cases may be cleared by law enforcement, that means a report was closed and an arrest was made.  Not that justice was served.  Survivors are fighting for safety and custody in courts for years highlighting the urgent need for judicial accountability and checks and balances.  We are calling for a formal investigation into the Family Court practices and support for expanding advocacy services.  Together we can ensure their survivors in Volusia County have access to safety, fairness, and hope.  Let's make justice possible.  As you know, it's domestic violence awareness month.  Let stand with survivors and their children.  Thank you.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Carina?  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: My name is Karina.  The case I'm speaking on originated in Deltona.  I am here as a mother fighting for five years to reunite and bring my daughter Isabella home.  What happened Isabella was not child protection, it was wrongful seizure of a child.  May 27, 2020 DCF Richter out of my arms from our home in Deltona.  The removal was entirely unlawful.  On July 28, 2020 DCF filed a motion for reunification which effectively acknowledged Isabella should've never been removed.  After reunification we temporarily relocated to New York due to emergent family situations.  We were illegally evicted despite paying rent.  Adding to the drama my family already endured.  After going to New York, approximately five years this week my daughter again was removed from New York.  A woman that works for the community partnership for children came to New York and took my daughter and brought her back to Florida.  There was no IC PC process follow, no court authorization existed, no judicial review occurred, no due process.  Since that date Isabella has been held unlawfully separated from me for years but the impact on our whole family has been devastating for Isabella has a family that loves her deeply and every day without her has caused immeasurable pain and trauma.  My child needs her mother and it is imperative for her to know I have never given up fighting for her.  No matter how impossible the odds have seemed.  The retaliation we faced for speaking up against she has endured is for principal.  What is even worse is there are people out there, even some relatives, who have been made to believe she is and even my child.  Imagine that.  That is how far the system has gone to a race me, to erase our lives and rewrite the truth.  Is who we are as a family.  It is the most twisted heartbreaking thing we experienced.  What my family and I endured under is unimaginable.  Imagine sitting in a courtroom watching a judge terrorized Utah while.  For fighting for her every single day powerless to protect her from those who were supposed to uphold the law.  The actions taken against Isabella and our family were illegal, abusive and a violation of our human rights the computer request the counter recognize the serious concerns and support a full investigation into the roll of local and private agencies, including community partnership for children in the helping hands.  I urge the Council, the audience here today and those watching online the police acknowledge the wrongful seizure and kidnapping of my daughter Isabella and support and investigation of all parties involved but my goal is simple.  I need to bring my child home and I'm willing to do whatever it takes to make that happen and to bring awareness to these injustices, supported on ability and prevent this happening to any other family and our community.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Jessica?  

>>  I am a civil rights advocate and litigator from Washington D.C. here to provide notice.  This is in accordance with US CS rules as well as rule 17 and 20 for the United States Supreme Court.  Regarding the indictment flight information issue, we have a very similar issue going on in Family Court and in juvenile court and the problem remains that you are paying these judges to deprive parents of rights that are secured and protected by the Constitution.  It is a violation, it is illegal and it is a crime.  I have today a loft of affidavits.  When I leave here today each of you will eventually have been served with these affidavits a criminal conspiracy against judges that you are paying.  Federal code 18 USC 4 is a felony.  What that states is whoever not having knowledge of the crimes cognizable by any court the estates and does not as soon as possible report these crimes to a civil or military authority could be held liable.  I am here to provide notice.  I will be filling out a service of process for each one of you in regards to every single one of these affidavits a criminal conspiracy.  This is prima facie evidence of crimes that have been committed by the judiciary you are -- spoken here tonight on your record in the court of public opinion.  Night implore you to discharge the duties of your office because every single one of you swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution and you think it is funny.  Do you think this is funny?  Because I don't.  It is disgusting.  

>>  I don't know what you are saying.  

>>  Because you don't care.  You literally just told me you don't know what I am saying.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: You need to direct your comments of the Council.  

>>  I've directed I everything I need to say at this point.  You will be held liable.  If these are not reported.  This is not my loss, these are our laws but I didn't create these laws.  The law is hard but it is the law.  Every single one of you know that there are incentives right here from this County and in the state that incentivize these judges to act criminally against these families.  It is called title IV.  Title IV B, title IV D, title IV E. Every time a child is removed unlawfully from a loving parent, a healthy parent, the state is incentivized through those title IV payments.  I'm sure somewhere around here if we did an audit we would find a budget and may be able to uncover more criminal action.  Dropping serves.  Where would you like me to hand this.  Thank you so much.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: I don't see the next person.  Catherine?  

>>  She switched with grace.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: She spoke for somebody else.  

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: Might it be beneficial to let these people know we may comment?  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: I was going to ask if we could have a five minute recess and talked of the County attorneys in the back room.  

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: You might want these folks to stay if we have comments.  I don't want them to leave and miss out.  Okay.  Thanks.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Council?  Okay.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I don't know anything about this.  I'm not prepared to speak.

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: I'm going to ask some questions.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: That is why I wanted to ask.  I don't know if they were aware this was coming.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I have a suggestion.  And suggest we maintain the decorum and the rules governing our meeting and continue as normally scheduled.  

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: I concur.  We can talk about it in closing comments.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Okay.  Tracy?  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: My name is Tracy.  I live in Deland so I am part of Don's region.  This is my first County Council meeting I have spoken at.  It has been enlightening.  We learned of extracurricular activities.  We learned of a lot of different things but I've come to speak on the arts budget that is removed.  Thank you chair and members of Volusia County Council.  I hope run the land, small co-op gallery down the road.  I am here as a community member to discuss the funding pulled from the local arts organization.  This year he decided to withhold more than 611,000 and community cultural grants that support 30 arts and culture organizations in Volusia County.  The Athens theater was supposed to have received 31,000 of that.  Less than the cost of repaving a small parking lot.  It would fund musicians and building materials meanwhile, you budget weighing in at 1.3 billion find room for all sorts of other options and we talked about that tonight.  The motocross recreation facility.  I am sure someone out here are out there loves motocross.  That's great.  It's hard to tell struggling aren't venues we don't have the money when the County is busy digging dirt tracks for bikes.  Let's talk about how the money is being managed pick the County projected 7.1 million in revenue from paid beach parking, but the actual number came in closer to 2.9 million that is not a rounding and repair that is a did you do that on a napkin moment?  If any small business ran their numbers the way it was run we would be locked into the bank, yet somehow and County budgeting the level of optimism seems to past is forecasting.  When I hear we have to make tough decisions, I would like to know tough for who?  The arts are being asked to tighten their belts while discretionary projects keep sailing through.  Is purely physical to responsibility.  The public comments and the votes point two discomfort around LGBTQ+ or drug-related art.  You can call it what you want but it reads like select a morality disguised as bookkeeping.  That is not financial stewardship.  Listen to strip bite spreadsheet.  I support good management, I supported countability but good management doesn't mean taking aim at the easiest targets.  Accountability doesn't mean punishing artists because you don't like every performance that happens in your County reinstate the money to cultural grants, stop pretending it is money when the numbers tell a different story.  This County Valdez creativity, connection and fairness over obvious here we claim we are the Athens of the South.  Do we still deserve that title?  Are we content to be the County that traded culture for carburetors?  Thank you.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Ellen?  Ellen is not here.  Randy Williams?  Melissa?  Melissa?  Thank you.  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: I'm going to introduce myself that every County Council meeting I come to.  My name is Melissa and I live in district 1. I am here as a member of the Northwest Democratic club and they will be observing an essentially reporting to my group.  About the activities that happened here.  And that is all I have to say.  Thank you.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  Jennifer Coolidge?  You will be followed by Sydney Johnson in Sydney will be followed by Fred.  We will get to him in a moment.  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: Thank you and I want to start out by saying thank you for those who called me back.  I like to continue the dialogue.  Want to continue the dialogue.  Jake and Matt for your support and looking forward to the potential of more conversation around the importance of culture in our County.  I would stress culture is a core civic responsibility.  I think if we went back and looked at the letter that 19 former Councilman spoke and sent to you, they stressed that point in US stewards our well-being and I didn't date in working hard and very many areas.  Your job is tremendous but we are part of that cultural identity and part of the public good in the service you can provide.  Just as your parks, libraries, education, they all enrich civic life.  This is not charity., Professional and the cultural industries in our area and this is a good investment that brings ROI back in unmeasurable ways unmeasurable too.  Because we keep sharing the data about the money that comes back to our County when you invest in culture.  The ROI of a private public partnership that has worked in this County for over 36 years.  Mr. Kent talked about the contributions for culture in our area, but that did not, just his investment.  It was a partnership with this County that enabled us to bring the London Symphony to this community seaside music and others and he was a part of establishing the cultural funding along with our founder from Atlantic Center for the arts Doris Lieber.  Hi implore you to think further and think about the value that arts and culture brings and also to consider that we have gone through a process.  We spent time, I hired a grants writer.  I'm not alone as an arts leader that spends money preparing these grants to present our best product in your cultural Council -- for high public quality and for public impact with the money we spend for the audit so you know our proposal fiscally sound.  I wanted to say many of us are working on income based models and you will have this invitation to join us for our ACA live concert this Saturday.  We are starting a new series.  You know how hard it is to build the business model with entertainment.  That's what we are trying to do at the Lenten Center for the arts.  You will have a plan for a three-year shift in how grants would be working so the nonprofits figure out other ways forward.  You want to work with you to find a way forward for the arts in our County.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Sydney Johnson?  Not here?  Fred.  Is it Coulter?  That's the one.  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: It's obvious you don't watch Daytona Beach meetings.  Probably a good move.  Fred Coulter, 820 north Tuxedo Deland Florida right down the street.  I came here because of your actions last meeting with arts funding, but it isn't the direction against the arts funding I am here for half a you would voting against funding it said we need the money in our roads and sidewalks and this shows a fundamental flaw with budgeting in the County that is also everywhere else that I have seen.  I have 20 years of governmental budgeting experience both in Daytona and other places in the biggest problem we have, by the way I wanted to mention I heard nothing but good things about your budget staff.  This is not a hit on your staff.  The elected officials do not adequately communicate their priorities to the budget staff when developing the budget.  That is why this year's budget looks like last years budget.  To do this properly you need to do a deep dive on what the County does.  Everything it does.  Look at everything the program, determine priorities.  It's nice to think about the new ones.  I have a look at yours in detail, but normally they look at here is the new stuff we need to do.  You need to look at everything because the reality is you don't have more resources.  You're going to have to cut something.  There may be things you need to do that is higher priority.  It's going to require cutting something else in the budget staff has no clue they don't know what you think is lower priority than the new program.  The County manager has been looking up waste and inefficiency.  When I see public hearings I see commissioners digging into the details of the budget.  We had a budget with public works or the County Council, not you, spent an hour discussing whether they needed two or three toner cartridges.  We are talking about every Commissioner, 10 people on the budget staff, city manager, public works spending an hour discussing a $200 item on the budget.  That is not the roll.  You need to say we need to stop doing this on the County manager can do that.  We need to stop doing this and they can look at priorities and if some are going to be cut to make others happen he will bring that to you but you need to communicate your priorities with the budget.  There is a way of doing this but this does not require a consultant so we are not talking money.  Unless you are horrible at hiring people, you have people on your staff who have the training to facilitate it, but it's going to require you, your heavy involvement in the entire process.  Not just the beginning when you do statements.  You are going to have to listen to what they are talking about, determine what those priorities are, go back when they come up with plans.  He was there look at the plants and state that is not going to work.  My guess would be at least a year, at least one weekend a month, a whole date of you working on a workshop to build this.  That is a lot of work for you which is why it will probably not happen.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Sandra Cook?  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: Good evening.  I am the Executive Director and cofounder of Halifax repertory theater, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit in Ormond Beach.  I have a whole lot of stuff written down here that you have all already heard time and time and time again so I am going to tell you something not down here on the paper.  My husband and I started Halifax repertory theater a few years ago.  We use that for heart.  We feel like arts are the heart of the community.  We put up productions, we rent the theaters, we personally put in 1/4 of $1 million a year of our own money to make our dreams come true and bring outstanding productions and education for the arts to our community.  With every intention of continuing to do that.  We don't ask or get this grant.  But the devastation that it causes by this grant taken away just kind of shows it's a trust thing.  It's a trust thing that the entire community needs the arts.  Everyone has spoken about it.  Everyone has said why they should be revitalized.  The amount put out and put forth to the grants is so minimal in comparison to the cost of what it actually takes to put these things together to have it grow.  And it does bring in more people.  People like my husband and I lived in Orlando for 20 years.  We grew up in Daytona.  We were here for the seaside days we want to bring that fabulousness back.  Stuff like this being stripped away by the County is going to make people like us who return to Orman or Volusia County to try to help revitalize it and get it back to the glory days.  It is going to make us want to move out of the County and that is a shame because it is a fantastic place to live.  We are trying to grow something outstanding for our community and we hope you will reconsider reinstating the $611,000 grant for the organizations that desperately need that help.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  Jate?  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: Jate.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: That's what I said.

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: Speaking for my family in district 1. Hello County Counsel and officials.  It has been a year.  I was a little late sending in the picture so I printed out one.  Of reminder of the flooding.  I think I am the only speaker speaking of the flooding.  It has been one ear and 10 days.  In the picture actually wasn't here when it was this high and there was water over the road, which is an infrastructure problem.  Thankfully hurricane season has been quiet.  And attending the County Council meetings and various town halls I learned about how the County prioritizes infrastructure projects.  Like for example, I think about 5000 feet away there is the Taylor Road project where water was over the road for about, I think 10 days.  That has been on the radar for a couple of years.  There been studies.  For properties which don't flood as often or flood it for the first time, I know it is a slower process.  I wanted the Council to keep us in mind.  You never know when the next hurricane is coming.  There are 40 days left in hurricane season.  We are hoping.  Knock on wood.  Nothing else happens this year.  I have been researching how funds are allocated.  I saw the slide about the different funding sources, sales tax and everything.  One is CDBG are just community development Block Grant disaster recovery.  I guess I need to email public works and try to figure out what the processes on that.  I heard there has to be multiple floods or something before the application process can move forward.  I'm trying to learn as much as I can.  Help out my family.  If anybody is listening they can hopefully learn from it as well.  I am disappointed funding was cut for the arts.  That's all.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  Michelle?  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: I know you guys love it when I come up here and speak.  I bless you every month.  I'm going to talk to you about the issues I'm having.  We talk about crimes.  There has been a crime.  I am dying from it from the Pfizer vaccine but nobody wants to talk about it.  I am censored by news media, newspaper, my government, everyone.  Including the hospital I worked out in my own County that terminated me because they didn't believe vaccine injuries happen.  And it is vaccine injury awareness week.  If you want to know how my life is when you are running, doing CrossFit, martial arts and end up being on $15,000 in medicine, which I am going to sit here because I trying to make my point every week.  In here is tubes I have to load up in here every week for three hours.  Everything in here.  I have to put my medications inside of here.  I was healthy on vitamins.  Do you want to see something?  I know the camera can't see all of that.  See how many medications I take and that is without supplements.  That is what I have to do around-the-clock to stay alive.  Not only that, I have to go overseas to get treatment because there's no treatment for me.  I still am producing Spike, which were not supposed to after 1740 days.  There is no cure for me and it is pushed me into cancer.  Without this medication I can't walk.  My immune system attacks itself but the only thing I can continue doing is speaking out to save future generations but the problem is nobody is saving me.  Out of all the money DeSantis, I was on his roundtable.  I'm being ignored by him.  He's a coward by not speaking to me.  I just saw a lot of hope a few weeks ago.  I'm tired of my life not meaning anything to talk about crimes.  Anyone who realizes a crime has been committed and I am dying because of a safe and effective vaccine that was supposed to be safe that is not and is killing me.  Everyone knows what is going on and nobody is doing anything for me.  I've lost my house and everything else.  Jeff, he helped me a lot.  And thought of you have contacted me once.  That is it.  Nobody else has helped me.  If it wasn't for Cory Mills comprehensibility and a few other things, very few people.  She is dying, she lost every things.  No savings, after that on medications just to come here so I can aggregate all of you because I needed to be heard.  I'm sure they will not put me on nothing because nobody wants to hear me.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  Lloyd you are next and then Jennifer and Kathy Thompson.  And we have eight people who want to speak that we are going to try to cram into this last public participation time.  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: Sorry I am taking so long.  This is my life.  I hope you guys like it.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Lloyd.

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: Thank you chairman.  There been many issues discussed tonight.  I now bring back to the discussion you made regarding cultural funding.  I was present at the last meeting and spoke with my name is Lloyd and I am from the beach side.  I had the pleasure of serving us Councilman Reinhart member of the cultural Council, a position I held since 2012.  I also had the pleasure been the recipient of the day Vincent award, which was a great audit by the cultural alliance.  And in the last meeting you paid tribute to Mark and Julia and the contributions they made to this community.  But you failed to mention the cultural program.  That was started by Tippin, Gary Libby and Frank Bruno and has been a part on the County funding since 1989 and is now an integral part of our organizations in this County pictorial you mentioned you didn't want to pull the rug out from under these organizations but that's what you did because none of us know where we are now.  Including myself as a member of the cultural Council.  What do we do.  We do license plate, we do public places but what else do we do, if anything.  Referenced the 18th we finished your work last year and provided you with the program you requested us to bring back to you.  Totally revamping it and spending the dollars down for you over the time over the next three years and based on that the cultural Council contributed their time.  The arts agencies do their time in reviewing the grants, grading the grants and bringing you the recommendations here.  I felt that would be an easy ask because we did what you asked us to do but we did not do that.  I'm not quite sure exactly what you did decide.  I did want to bring your attention to the comprehensive plan.  If you're going to do away with arts funding in the conference the plan has to be a part of it I'm sorry, Mike and I have known each other for a long time.  If I quote this incorrectly look, let me know.  Chapter 18 is the cultural element that forms the foundation of the County planning.  Interestingly enough, Scott to get through this quick.  8.1, enrich the quality of life for Volusia citizens by increasing awareness of cultural opportunities in Volusia County and support the agencies that provide set opportunities.  Policies 18.1.2.1 the County should recognize and support the cornerstones Volusia cultural life.  Museum arts sciences, Atlantic Center for the arts in the major cultural facility for Southeast Volusia.  I would ask you to continue that and don't forget the objective, the County should meeting the viability of cultural facilities by assisting the relevant organizations through an annual County budget appropriation dispersed as competitive grants to local cultural funds.  Please honor the comprehensive plan.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Jennifer?  Kathy Thompson?  Stephanie.  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: Good evening.  Jennifer, executive director.  You have heard all of the facts.  We tried to convince you.  The frustration comes from we followed your rules.  We had three years and instead of receiving funds for the work we did, all the man-hours I took out of my day to go to workshops and to work to do this grant, the other kinds of information I needed for my education director so we put her time in there and since we had a short window we had to hire a grant writer.  We are in the red.  It cost us money.  I do want to tell be because everyone else has been wonderful what the hub is cutting and what art-house is cutting.  I also do want to make a quick note there is video circulating with all sorts of content that we have nothing to do with.  Just to let you know that is viral.  And it is on our information the hub is not responsible for that.  There will be no Thanksgiving holiday camp scholarships.  We are cutting right now 65 percent of the summer camp scholarships.  We canceled our outreach initiative we are scaling back our hub on the run by 50 percent that is a program that supports at risk youth, ESE students on the underserved adolescents of East Volusia.  We currently are open seven days a week.  I'm looking to drop that to five days a week.  We have to shut down the information.  Art-house is losing 217 youth scholarships.  They are down under a series on Dalton bridges in jeopardy.  They would have reduced classes and staff layoffs pick I did staff layoffs before the start of.  I'm already working on a skeleton crew.  Reconsider, give us time to make the changes we need to make.  I have been doing this for six months trying to make changes on it doesn't happen overnight.  I would appreciate the consideration putting that grant back on.  Thank you.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  Kathy Thompson?  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: Kathy Thompson speaking for the Playhouse in Daytona Beach.  I left the last meeting early.  I left with hope and optimism that reason would prevail and you would honor your stated commitment to the arts and cultural organizations that inspired so many of us to move to Volusia County and to remain here.  I guess that was misplaced faith.  We are not charities I'm tired of hearing you say that.  We are not-for-profit businesses, and we have been in a partnership with this County for 30 some years.  We carry the majority of our expenses.  We carry the majority in all the expense for our facilities.  You offer us dollars that allows us to expand our programming, and most importantly to make sure we can economically serve the challenged in our community, seniors and children.  In good faith we listen to you.  We did everything you asked of us.  We developed a three year plan that you said yes to.  And then you denied it all.  Honor your commitment, restore the grant in its entirety.  And I would add, include the Sands theater and shoestring.  They had no right to be bullied out doing nothing more than following the nondiscrimination policy all of us are required to follow in Volusia.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Stephanie Mason?  Okay.  Lisa?  Keith?  

>>  If you are one of those deceived voting echo as most work where you are one of those involved in the deception, you shouldn't be complaining about how echo funds are being spent on a motocross facility.  And I should say, if you didn't squeal about the mile after mile of woodlands chomped down and bulldozed over so recreational trails can be constructed out of petroleum based asphalt material, he shouldn't be complaining about the environmental impacts from a motocross facility will be constructed out of mostly natural materials and on property already heavily disturbed.  And if you're one of those year and support the cultural funding and will remind you that taxpayers have already been forced to spend many millions of dollars on cultural facilities through echo.  So end of the hypocrisy and move on.  I should also note unlike the Echo program, the cultural grant program was not approved by the voters.  It was another one of the spending programs and politicians added to gain favor from a special group once government programs are started they almost never end.  The cultural funding program is another program that wastes money on governmental responsibilities no matter how some attempt to spend it.  Needs to end the funds need to be reallocated.  I have a friend who with his two sons owns a small business operated out of the 3600 square-foot barn located on a small lot will often the main road in a relatively rural area.  The combined property taxes for the homes they built for themselves using sweat equity in the business location is $44,270 a year.  I repeat $44,270 a year.  On the other hand, there are many who paid little, if any property taxes at all.  When people start tossing about the fuzzy math in the program with the program only costs this small amount per household on average, it's a disingenuous way to reflect the truth.  Because the truth is have the taxpayers pick up the burdens of the other half in our younger hard-working people starting out or being hit the hardest with high property taxes her counsel, when someone quotes a study this is the return on investments for the government providing taxpayer handouts that cost considered with the return on investment would be having better design, build and maintain roads, sidewalks and infrastructure for everyone to include veterans, single moms, minorities, marginalized groups, and children trying to get to school safely.  Everyone benefits when governments do their core governmental responsibilities well.  A quote from Mr. Vic Baker.  Separate needs for once.  Address the needs.  But the private sector address the once.  Government should not be confused with charity.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  John Nicholson?  We have two more speakers.  We will be a little more than out of time for this public of segment input, but John and then Troy.  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: With regard to the ad litem, I have personal knowledge of that.  I used to go every morning, every Sunday morning to IHOP.  What she went through you would not believe.  Please listen to those people.  Secondly I hope at this time he would have had somebody opposing side reconsider.  I am hoping during your individual comments that would happen.  He really never, I have been to several meetings, the core issues.  What is the core purpose of the government?  What is the core.  I know Dempsey got this often.  Is $3 million for his sons motocross.  Troy got $40 million for his family so they don't have to go to Saint Augustine.  Yeah, that's true, but they are not.  When Don says this is talking about all our children I go into motocross.  When can wanted the $40 million he wanted the maximum use of the facility we already had the.  So what is the core area?  These people have an issue.  I don't know what your core area is.  It seemed logical that if we have baseball fields and ballet classes, they are equal one is intellectual, one is physical, but they are equal but I would ask we discussed the core before we cut all of this out.  Third, the city got sued again.  We got sued again.  I am asking you guys to pay attention to the city of Daytona Beach.  It's valuable to the whole community.  They just had Oktoberfest, which is a good event.  But everyone benefits from it.  So please I am asking you in the CRA for 30 years they had a counting councilman on the board.  Am asking you to put somebody back in.  Lastly, does anybody know a Republican?  For God sake someone has to know a Republican somewhere what is happening in Daytona Beach in a democratic representative came here last week and I asked her you where the corruption on the city commission?  Anything that will give a Democrat.  Quote no, I don't like that philosophy.  If there is something wrong I rather you fix it.  If everybody knows a Republican, ask them to contact the board to look at our figures in our numbers because they are playing games.  Thank you.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Troy, you are the last speaker.  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: My name is Troy.  I am originally from planning.  Lived in the area my entire life.  Wasn't going to come out.  I didn't know these meetings even happen.  I don't necessarily get involved very often and I feel that's one of the reasons why so many things get overlooked by the community.  It seemed like there were two topics that dominated the meeting.  One being there was apparently a kidnapping issue.  For the courts.  As someone who grew up going through the judicial system, I'd recommend there's anything in your power to keep kids out of the system to do it.  There's never a time that it is better that they are not with their family.  As far as the arts go, the only comment I have to make on the topic would be it seems like the entire focus as been on the cost of the funding.  600,000 is a lot of money.  If it costs you $3 million for a mile of road, if you like we should look at perspective a little bit and think if the $600,000 can provide so much enjoyment of the community so people came out to speak on it, perhaps it is worth another look at whether or not the funding would have a larger impact than it would have on the less than 1500 feet.  Thank you.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  That ins public participation.  We will go to closing comments by the County manager.  

>>  Thank you Mr. chair and counsel.  One thing I need to share is kind of a good news, not always good news.  We fully committed all of our 2.$2 million provided by the DEP to upgrade the septic systems in the Springs area.  We are able to help 163 homeowners upgrading their systems.  Some homeowners are still completing the construction and the rebate would be issued to the contract.  The program provided rebates for the $14,000.  If you recall we went to back to get that raised up to directly licensed and approved County contractors.  We are going to explore future opportunities so the competitive grant program in 2026, but for now the program is fully committed.  Needed to announce that.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Questions?  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Sure.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Can you helped me identify why was it just the Gemini Springs?  

>>  It was De Leon Springs.  It was special to that particular watershed.  My understanding is there would be more various times.  And I know blue Springs is a big one that will be coming in the future.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Constituent in mind district.  I don't know if that is particular but she communicated that.  $24,000 Bill to replace it.  In that case people say hook me up to see where.  Back in the days it was like sewer is too much to connect to.  

>>  That is actually, we are working on studies.  You mentioned Gemini.  We are partnering with the city of DeBary to have a septic to sewer conversion around Gemini Springs.  Just what you were saying, the connection is competitive with what you have to do to have a septic system.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Is Volusia County unique in the type of program?  How are we affected?  

>>  In this case we are affected because we have the Springs which are important.  It's a very important natural resource.  We have BMAP to protect those Springs.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: What I'm trying to get to.  If Volusia County is subjected to these requirements, more so than the average County, could we make a case to the legislature for a direct allocation of Volusia County because our circumstances requesting direct funding of matching dollars for this issue?  

>>  I think Ben might come around here and speak.  That's one of the reasons we had a huge crafts given to us to expand Southwest and Southeast sewer plants and we were able to put in advanced treatment.  Those are urban enough areas to have sewer connections and illuminate whatever they can.  Eliminate septic single onto the sewer.  We have the capacity expanded in order to do that.  That was step one in that process.  They have been partners and have given us millions of dollars for those plates.  

>>  Exactly what he said.  I will note specifically for De Leon Springs, when they do the feasibility analysis specifically for spring shed BMAP, they are looking out what is causing loading.  Is mostly a rural area.  Septic to sewer conversion is a lot more difficult because there isn't service up there we did with the state and is that Rand sewer service up to get the businesses in a couple of neighborhoods online.  But the reason you saw the grants for the advanced treatment units.  Anything acre or less is required to advanced treatment unit and most of your septic systems cannot be connected to sewer.  Now, in blue Springs specifically a lot more dense areas.  Same would Gemini Springs in the DeBary area.  We worked at the city is utility provider to identify we could do septic to sewer conversion.  Is where you will get your loan.  It is not yet finalized and when it does you will see the requirements come in.  That will be a tremendous amount of load reduction that would be required of Deltona, Orange City in the land and portions of the unincorporated area and that will be all the utility providers that will work together and we will be looking to the state for assistance in the septic to sewer.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: That the people are already held to the standard of that treatment?  Correct me if I am wrong that advanced treatment septic tank system.  

>>  My understanding is in Gemini, yes, Leon yes.  I don't believe the BMAP of the -- unless that latest law that went into place, that might be the case.  My understanding is typically that'll help to that standard until the BMAP -- 

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: We will talk more.  Thank you.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Is that it?  County Attorney?  

>>  Just briefly, I know I have been updating you, but bills are now beginning to be filed in the Florida legislature where we are heading for the session that begins in January.  As we get more information we will continue our updates to you.  Session starts a little early this year.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Okay.  We will move to County Council.  Don, you are for us tonight.  

>> DON DEMPSEY: Is brought here by any chance?  It is not.  Maybe I could ask this of Mike.  Is it possible the cultural arts funding could come from echo if we voted on it?  

>>  We have talked a little bit about that.  The dilemma we have is language for the echo program which was directly for capitol projects.  Your cultural grant funding program, at least the way it is now covers operational expenses.  

>> DON DEMPSEY: What would be the process if we wanted to tweak that's the cultural arts funding could put in with echo funds and they could compete against the other projects that routinely get funded every year for funding.  

>>  Could you repeat that last question?  

>> DON DEMPSEY: I am looking at the ballot.  Volusia County continues to fund restoration, construction or improvement of the environmental cultural historic and outdoor recreational projects for public use.  I am just wondering if there is any way to fit cultural arts funding.  I would like to get this money out of general fund.  I believe the general fund for true government purposes, but echo includes cultural arts.  

>>  I think it is important to go back, why was there a referendum on echo and forever?  It was a bond referendum.  It authorized you to bond monies, which generally are for capitol expenses.  And it's being paid from your general fund because it provides it doesn't bind you to loving village.  It says up 2.2 Mills per program.  So there is really, that is the only reason why it went to referendum.  If you want to set aside funding for a particular purpose, you are free to do so through your budgetary process.  You do not have to have a referendum.  

>> DON DEMPSEY: The long and short answer is we can and cannot tweak this to Echo.  

>>  I think you have the authority now to exercise your budgetary authority over general fund, allocate money.  Let's say hypothetically for a cultural purpose, you do not need a referendum for that.  Nor do you need to amend it because a bond referendum is for using money for a capitol purpose.  And authorizing you to secure the bond with their ad valorem taxing power, that is what the voters approved.  So if you wanted to change echo to cover -- I used the term operational.  I heard Lloyd you let me.  What I mean is a noncapital purpose.  That is not something you would go to referendum for.  Now, I think it is important.  Even echo and forever, that comes out of your general fund.  

>> DON DEMPSEY: It was voted on by 72 percent of the people.  Putting it in we would be spending four basically generational and paved roads through environmental core doors.  How about we pull some of that money out and give it to these guys for pickle ball or motocross or whatever.  But let them come out of that pool.  In my opinion echo contemplates what they are looking for.  

>>  Echo has a strong cultural component, no doubt about it.  If you wanted to get some kind of voter approval for using your general fund for supporting her books everything you do has to have a valid public purpose.  But you can have a straw poll, which state law does authorize you to do.  You have to pay for it to go up for an election.  Your budgetary power rests with the Council.  On how you spend that money.  

>> DON DEMPSEY: Somebody mentioned earlier with Volusia forever we had actually made it operationally think is what Lloyd said.  We kinda tweaked we should forever to make it include operational costs.  Is that doable with echo?  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: George, do you want to add to this?  

>>  To your last that was in the second iteration.  So we went out and the voters voted in that language was part of that.  They made it more clear in the second iteration about the forever.  To your first question that you were talking about, trying to make it easier.  For Echo it is up 2.2 Mills.  In theory you could make it .125 Mills in the dock five would go back and you could use it if you wanted to.  That is how you would get there.  It is outside the echo.  You would reduce the echo and pay for it out of the general fund.  It is all the general fund.  When you're throwing that around it is docked to out of the general fund dedicated so you guys could bond that money.  That is why it went to the voters.  We have chosen not to bond echo because we've been able to cover it with the incoming revenues.  The forever you are going to see, we did bond a lot of it in the first iteration where to the point the last many years was only paying off debt.  This time we have done a good job leveraging with grants we haven't had to borrow money yet but we will be coming to that.  We have large purchases coming up that will probably require us to go borrow the money.  I hope that helps a little bit.  The flexibility is reduce a little bit of the echo and then slide that money back to the general fund which could be used for programs.  Whatever you guys decide.  

>> DON DEMPSEY: And you said the word maintenance was on the referendum?  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Did you hear that, Mike?  

>>  No, sorry.  

>> DON DEMPSEY: I will just wait and hear what my colleagues have to say on this or if it is not going to be discussed.  Here is where I am.  As you know, I've had that comedy club for six years.  It was packed every weekend and still lost money.  Every one of these organizations does the law for the community.  Shoestring is wonderful.  But we inherited some real and now they've come home to roost in the County has to foot the bill.  We got flooding we have inherited because of forwarded development over the last few decades.  We have a law of other things.  If 72 percent of the voters voted for Echo, which I was against it.  Now that we have it that is the will of the people.  They wanted .2 Mills to go toward echo, which includes cultural arts.  I don't have a problem reducing the millage.  If not this year, next year.  Reducing the millage for Echo in carving out a little bit.  I am open for the discussion.  I don't know.  I know they do a lot for the community.  I agree with Mr. Chester everything he says.  It shouldn't come out of the general fund.  I just know that these things are good for the community.  You lose money.  Although Athens makes money.  They have shown a pretty good track record and that is awesome.  I don't know if we should be subsidizing everything that is good for downtown but this is not a good restaurants downtown.  That doesn't mean the government should be sending them checks.  The ones who are truly losing money, I'm not opposed to the echo portion of the tax dollar been used to help them out.  That seems like that was the will of the voters that go.  I would not want to take anything out of the general fund for the arts because I don't think that's a government purpose.  Think it is fair these people should have a shot putting in for some of that money.  I just don't know how we get there.  I would rather than go into roads and everything else in their money come out of the echo fund if possible.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Jq had a question but you are up next.  

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: There are a couple ways to pay outside funds.  Why don't we ask staff to bring back every option.  I was in the minority there.  I can't bring it back.  But I did mention last week or last meeting, it is another.  I want to get -- was willing to make that happen and I still want to make it happened. I'm still willing to make that happen.  Outside the government.  If you guys are feeling a little bit interested in getting back into it, let's explore it and see how we can do it and make it happened. 

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: County attorney Michael?  

>>  To be clear, there's no prevailing side at this point.  You did not approve or disapprove grant request so you are free as a counsel, any one of you to speak or propose a particular course of action.  Whatever it may be.  

>>  Say that again?  We did not approve or disapprove?  

>>  You took no action in effect.  I know sometimes it is something Mr. Johansson just said that grabbed my attention.  Usually when someone makes a motion to reconsider you make it at the same meeting and you say I was on the prevailing side so therefore I can make that motion and bring it up.  There's no prevailing side here.  Any of you can bring the issue up if you wanted to.  You are not restricted.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Jake, you still have the floor.

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: I think we are still on Don's comment here.  I will get to my stuff after we are done with this.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: I thought we were done.  

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: These are all comments on Don's subject of cultural arts.  

>> DON DEMPSEY: I would just make a motion stuff comes back with giving us options.  I don't want anything out of general fund.  And asked to end but as long as we have echo in its cultural arts.  If there is a way of working this will be good but the applications in through the arts in the way the County manager proposed is cut down on the millage for Echo.  I don't want to see any tax increases and I don't know where I sit on that.  I'm trying to look for all the options.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Motion on the floor for the County staff to bring back, we try to distill this down for funding, cooked literal arts outside the fund.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I will second it for discussion.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: The second by David Santiago.  All these names up for this now?  Vice chair Reinhart.

>> MATT REINHART, VICE CHAIR: Thank you for clarifying that.  I was under the impression that because we took a vote that Jake and I could not because we were on the losing end of that particular vote.  I could online because I asked to fund it.  
Still based on a new it's not the popular decision by some, but again not a fourth-quarter ninth-inning guy.  I will stand on that.  Go ahead.  

>>  No vote passed.  

>>  I hesitated to be there will affect is to undo the vote you took your you are free to bring up issues.  If board meetings down the road you decide to visit a topic, you are free to do that.  But you didn't have a vote.  You've nothing to reconsider.  

>>  We have a vote not to fund it.  

>>  I know it didn't.  Mine without a second but Jake made a motion is motionless to fund minus the other two organizations and we will bring them back later.  We took a vote and it failed 4/2.  

>>  It has to be in the same meeting.  It is not like you are banning yourselves from the future vote.  

>>  Thank you.  That just made it clear.  Sorry Mike.  There is a motion and second and I am in favor.  If it gets it back on the board I am in favor of that.  I am done.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: David Santiago.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I wanted to have discussion on direction for Echo because I know there was explanation on echo but I am not yet convinced or have been told that unless I missed it Echo allows it for operational funding.  It doesn't.  So why would we say go back and look at echo.  

>>  I think what we were saying outside the echo program you could reduce the echo millage because it is up 2.2.  Say you figure out what $611,000 is in the equivalent.  That might make it .195 or something like that.  You collect that amount and the rest would come from the general fund.  Echo is in the general fund.  You have just set aside a piece of it for bonding purposes.  You could have an echo without even doing them.  You could just make a decision to decide and say Mr. manager, I want a road program of X amount of millage.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: If we supported that scenario, echo would give back the 600 something thousand.  

>>  Basically a way of moving the money.  Reducing what you're going to give to projects and he would use the general fund millage you save you could dedicate toward that.  

>>  You said still out of the general fund.  

>>  That is what it is.  Where is Ryan?  He beat me into it to make sure I say that.  

>>  I have did change the motion I trying to repeat.  I said the motion was to bring back cultural art funding outside general fund to relieve the motion is to bring back art funding through the reduction of echo.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Who just asked if they could say something?  Yes, Councilman Robin.

>> DANNY ROBINS: Something to think about.  Are we ready to pay for environmental and historical operational funds and outpour funds as well?  If we are going to go through echo, I think we are opening ourselves up.  The operational, echo pays for facilities.  What you are saying, and I'm trying to understand you want Echo to pay for operational portions for culture I guess and arts?  

>>  Somehow I understand we ended up with Volusia forever being used for maintenance.  I don't see it on the ballot where it was included for maintenance.  I don't see the word maintenance.  I guess it is -- I don't know.  All I am saying is I believe echo in the cultural arts portion of it, I have no heartache sing them on in your after year after year but the one struggling, at least let them put in and make a bid for it.  I am against it but 72 percent of the voters for the dock to millage of taxes going toward this for areas including cultural arts.  I don't have a problem seeing the money coming from that pool.  I just don't like it coming every year automatically from the general fund.  

>>  It is the same pool at the end of the day.  

>>  It is but at least we are taken away 

>>  Watch the emails come in now.  I would like the discussion of what other options can we take.  Outside of government that other counties are using or other arts communities are using in other counties that are going out there and raising money.  I saw a fundraiser going around this last week and 1/2.  On Athens or whatever.  They raised 70, 18 grand in the last weeks.  We have another 50 weeks.  Compound that rate.  How much money.  I think that was the ultimate goal of the Council to see how they can be more self supportive, but how do we stick -- and we get out.  

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: That was the intent I giving them three years.  Number one.  A number two, I'm sorry to but in here.  We pay for environmental operational.  Anyone at our parts or trails we pay for, we pay for the operational.  We pay for our parks, we pay for baseball.  You give an echo grant to the city of Port Orange for new baseball fields, the taxpayers are paying to hire the people to manage those baseball fields.  Taxpayers paying for the operational of the results of the capitol that we use on echo.  Echo makes the building.  As long as it is going to our government entity which a lot of echo does, the taxpayers are paying from the operational portion through general fund budgets.  Maybe not ours, but somebody's.  So if you think the echo funds are not going or doesn't cost the taxpayers more money, it's part of doing business.  By the way, we are trying to be fiscally conservative.  I got that.  We have to be good stewards of the governments money and if the people want culture, then that is what they want.  That is what we hear for and represent them and what they want.  I'm not saying, there are people out there is a there are 500 people complaining about arts and the other 500,000 people don't give a darn.  That may be true.  That is for us to figure out.  But I think there are other opportunities.  I'm not going to mention the other funding opportunities.  But I go back to the corporate I think we need to have staff show us how to get there.  And if we still want to do it, great.  If we don't after that, let me know.  I am motivated as a citizen to help the alliance and all our cultural arts people get 611 or more.  I like everything they do and I would like to keep as much for everything out of government as I possibly can and that is why I'm going to work toward it.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Okay.  Thank you.  David Santiago.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I think this will be my closing comments portion of the day too so I will get that out of the day.  Since I returned from a vacation this was a big topic for me.  I spoke with many people and contemplated on many positions I have evolved over the years.  I start with one fundamental premise for me.  Last year and led the charge on the change of the program.  I was the front runner.  I was critical of the program and at the end of the day I made suggestions on how do we change the program to work on a way to get the organizations independent and reduce their funding year-over-year.  I think we had two or three hearings on that because there was a little bit of stalemate ideas.  We finally adopted a program for  I think it is wrong to have adopted a program six months ago.  And just walk away from it.  That is what I would do.  I'm speaking for myself.  I can't do that.  That being said, there's an opportunity also done with your suggestion of the echo, which I didn't know that was an opportunity so I'm glad I drilled down on that question.  I think this is a great opportunity.  I understand given all the physical issues we have had a lot of pressure over the last 12 months, there is immense pressure on budgeting stuff coming from Tallahassee down.  I don't think there is any ill intent and anybody on how we make these decisions no matter where we go there's going to be a segment of the population.  Is that going to be all of us are one of us or half of us.  I don't take that lightly.  Is an opportunity to send this back to staff.  And at least for this year in the back to approve it and withdraw those funds from echo and whatever legal way they can do it.  And allow us to maintain the 611,000, whatever math you've got to do in our general fund but tap into their.  And think it is worthy of a discussion as we go into next year's budget time.  This is where we should be having this conversation guys.  As we lead into next year's budget and we start seeing the numbers, we technically approve this but if we dip into echo unhappy with that.  We really need to be having the serious conversations on all government spending, central government services is one of our speakers that and have a serious conversation, where is it going to land.  I'm not going to support pulling the program when I was the champion of changing it.  I think we should find a way to fund them to echo and have staff bring that back.  I know I repeat myself a few times.  I want to make sure.  Unclear for this year I think we need to find a way to do it that way.  Thank you Mr. chair.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Okay.  I will call on George in just a minute.  I'm trying to see if that fits into the motion on the table.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Can I add one thing?  We have the program that we created?  It should always be that program funded individuals that would tap into these funds.  I think legal is telling us that we need a new motion.  

>> The problem is this year.  You can't do it this year.  You already voted on and did the budget and the dot to Mills is already been voted on and gone to the echo program.  Like I said, you can't take it out of the echo program.  You strength and millage and have a little bit less in echo and use that difference.  You can't do that now that you voted.  That would be for the following year.  This year we have to find some other way.  We could look at some stuff, but if you don't want it out of the general fund.  You are limited this year because you voted on the budget.  Next here is where we could place them.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Let me ask you, David and the rest of the Council, your understanding is we already had the program that they had three years and there was no more funding?  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: My recollection of the program is three years and reduction in funding.  If you recall, I think there were individuals receiving close to 70,000 per year and it was weaning them off of it year by year.  I am talking about per organization.  Correct.  Per organization because the idea at the time was to promote new organizations to cut into the cultural arts program.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: That didn't happen.  Playhouse received $14,522 last year.  This year the request is 30,743 so they didn't go down.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: That is a good point.  But that was the program.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Okay.  Spoke to Bailey Parks and Recreation Director.  It might be helpful if I could remind the Council what was approved in February 18 of this year.  Originally the maximum dollar amount that could be requested was $85,000.  That was in previous grant cycles.  What you proposed to do was lower the fire from 85 and the deer lowered to 50 and after that lowered to 35.  That is for programming.  The smaller agencies that have an operating budget of 40 grand or less, he gave them the opportunity to apply for up to eight thousand dollars for operational funding.  Not programming.  That was for three years to get them started.  To that point they would fall out of the 40,000 grant cycle and be put into the programming for grants.  That is what you approved in February.  

>>  Because we don't know the presentation them, can you refresh councils memory.  Many organizations did apply for the 70,000.  I believe the maximum recommended grant was just over 31,000 because there wasn't enough money to go around.  The maximum award was less than 32,000 for any individual organization is that correct?  

>>  Let me follow up on that.  Every year the grants are greater than what we have available, which is 611,758 for a long period of time.  The grams this year for programming for the 33 organizations, the requested amount was 1.41 $1 million.  So knowing that we don't have 1.4 we use their scoring and $70,000 element and do a weighted average to get them what they are eligible for and that is what the Council recommends we brought that is what we brought to you last meeting.  They might've requested $70,000 for programming, the maximum dollar would be 31.  Organization that request it would be 45,000 getting close to half of that.  There's not enough funding to go around.  That's how you get to the dollar amount.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: The 611,1978 never changes?  

>>  It hasn't for a long period of time.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: All right.  Councilman Robbins?  

>> DANNY ROBINS: I will share a quick story.  I was asked about a week and 1/2, two weeks ago hey Danny, what changed from when our budget time was until that vote.  And I will tell you, we had about 2.5, three weeks of rain every day.  I got to compare where we were this time the last year before and the year prior to that based on the weather cycle we are going through.  Dumping said nothing has changed.  I forget how much we paid for it but we bought property if you remember.  8000+.  There is a big acreage down there in hopes of giving an area volume and certain things.  We are doing stormwater projects, but all up and down our coastline and even inland toward St. John's, some of these problem exist where we need the critical infrastructure.  In his mouth persisted where I can definitively say back a couple of years now it's not changing.  At the end of the day I heard this as well.  We have a couple options.  You have to paint your house or replace a hole in your roof.  What do you do first?  Probably fix the roof, right?  But the government will say we want both but we are just going to tax it or move shelves around.  It's going to be unpopular for me to say that, but that is where I am out because I have stormwater issues that need to be addressed in roads.  I bridges that are scored letter literally costing my local businesses and residents.  It is not only time, fuel and maintenance, but it is costing businesses a lot of money just and the one bridge to travel miles out of the way.  Even with a horse trailer, dump truck, whatever the case is.  Are middle-class, blue-collar folks.  There are some real issues there.  And that is it.  That is where I am out.  Priorities.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Councilman Dempsey.

>> DON DEMPSEY: Yeah, I'm not looking to go back to where we were status quo either.  I don't like the fact we made this plan and pulled the rug out.  So this year gives me some heartburn.  Looking at most of these applicants have been coming year after year after year since 2014 for money.  I notice looking at some of these, for instance the theaters, they went from 2.$1 million in revenue in 22 to do .formula dollars and 23.  Their wages went up from six of the $50,000-$841,000 for the wages went up $170,000 in one year.  They had zero money for fundraising events which is what Danny was talking about.  Not the one fundraising to raise the money.  Apparently further 990.  Government grant 61,000 in 23.  Just having owned a comedy club which is technically a performing arts center, and loses money.  I never thought to ask the government.  I just thought it would be good for the town, had fun I shut the doors after six years.  Some of these guys it is their lifelong passion and they are going to lose money.  The air station or whatever, the museum, that's going to lose money.  My heart breaks for organizations like that.  The theater, they are making money.  So with their hands out and they are crying about one percent is not going to make a difference.  They are not going to shut their doors over one percent.  Those organizations I don't think deserve.  They are not in need of it.  They do a law for the community.  Those are the ones that have been on my mind recently.  I want to explore ways of helping them out.  Coming out of Echo because 72 percent of the voters that we want money to go to these types of things in cultural arts is one of them.  If we didn't have Echo I would be a no on this.  Just like if motocross was coming out of the general fund I wouldn't be asking for it.  When I try to do motocross track is going to pay for it out of my own pocket and I didn't even think to try to get it through government funding.  As long as there is a program Echo.  If you want pickle ball I am not in favor but they pay for it.  We have $20 million asphalt paved road through the wildlife corridor where no one seems to care about year after year.  It's out of Echo.  This money is coming to help the cultural arts that is truly in need of the money..  They don't just have their hand out.  I would like to see if we can help them and say yes.  Through the 72 percent of the voter approval funded, either the the way George proposed it or some other fashion.  Thanks.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: You are welcome I think.  The problem is that is not what we are being asked to do.  We are funding Athens.  We are funding people that are asking for more money each year.  And I am not sure of, I don't think I can support reducing Echo after 72 percent of the population voted for that.  Without asking them.  Yes, Mr. David Santiago.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Thank you Mr. chair.  Don, do you Thank you could get there today with the funding that is already been approved with the exception of the two entities you said you don't think should receive funding?  What shoes string made of profit.  

>>  Let me be clear.  My understanding is you had to applicants withdraw.  So they are not pending.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Absent those two could you get to a yes absent those two?  

>> DANNY ROBINS: That is coming out of the general fund.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I'm just asking you a question.  

>>  We did kind of give our word.  As much as I don't like the spending -- it's still has been on my heart.  Just like you said we made this promise.  I hear them what they are saying.  

>>  If you withdrew the Athens in shoestring, the allocation was $39,832 combined, which would leave a balance of 579 126.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Vice chair.

>> MATT REINHART, VICE CHAIR: To expand on David's question, we can't do the Echo this year.  I'm going to be very clear.  That is something to consider when we are talking about the budget for this year.  Because they did everything we asked them to do.  Because the two entities removed the grant applications, could you get behind improving for the remaining ones this year because they answered the question and did exactly what we asked them to do?

>>  I don't know if we could do that unless we voted this would be the last year we actually cancel the vote.  

>>  Just on general fund.  When we talk about the budget for next year we talk about if we are going to do any type of funding that has to come out of Echo.  That is a discussion for a later date.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Councilman Robin.

>> DANNY ROBINS: Mr. Bailey, I have a couple questions.  We asked the nonprofits to do in terms of fundraising.  I'm pretty sure we asked the nonprofits you guys need to fund raise.  

>>  They identify what they do to drum up more business to lower the use of general fund dollars.  

>>  How many did fundraisers?  

>>  Every year the fund raised to get additional funding through other state grants and other entities.  

>>  One of my colleagues at one or two didn't.  I am trying to work something here.  That is it.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Councilman Johansson.  

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: One of the entities said they invite other people in to bring revenue to fund raise.  I don't think that will appear on the 990 is fundraising.  It's going to be revenue.  110 says fundraising he's talking about bringing in extra revenue.  When Don is talking about fundraising, he's talking about fundraisers often selling brownies and claiming that money is fundraising money.  That is what I mean.  That is a fundraiser.  Hiring an entity to come in and use the Athens theater is not a fundraiser, but it does raise funds.  I want to make sure that we are not trying to interpret what government document says and said see, they don't raise funds.  And him not saying they do.  I don't know either.  I think at some point we have to cut to the chase and decide whether we are going to vote on this or not.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Councilman Santiago.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Let me see if I can get us to cut to the chase.  To answer your question, to reiterate briefly to me, the drive I did last year I feel compelled to stand behind it in creating that program.  That is the biggest driving factor.  Understand the physical side of it.  I would be okay releasing the funds that existing applicants that you have right now.  I think to have dropped out.  With the intent of figuring out a solution, maybe in January we start talking about solutions with what we are going to do.  Another tough decision.  This January is going to be several tough decisions.  I am okay releasing the funds to the applicants we have right now.  Matter of fact, Mr. chair, I move that we -- we have a motion.  Sorry.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Don would have to remove his motion or we vote on it and voted up or down.  Right now the motion on the floor is to pay the five -- this nearby downsizing Echo.  Can't do that this year.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Don withdraws his motion.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Mr. chair if I may, I move that we approve the list of current applicants for the cultural arts fund and direct staff to prepare options for our January strategy session for future cultural funding options.  

>>  Second.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Motion is to approve the list of current applicants for this year minus the two of withdrawn to the total is 500 7926 and then bring it back up for other funding mechanisms during the budget.  

>>  And it is 571926.  

>>  571926.  Okay.  Do we have public speaking and closing comments?  

>>  You have an item you are voting on so I don't Thank you cannot allow the public to not weigh in on this.  Sorry Mike.  Not trying to do your job.  I will send you my bill later.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: I hate being the bad guy.  I love the arts.  In two things I'm really struggling.  One is according to our rules we shouldn't even be voting on this tonight.  We should send the vote back to staff and have them bring it up the next meeting.  That is our rules that we don't vote on the fly that weaken the public time to respond.  And if you want to do that, that's fine.  According to our rules that is the only way we can do it.  We can break to set our rules aside, but the other issue is for me the whole thing is more of a philosophical principal argument that somebody said we are not a charity.  I understand where she is coming from.  A nonprofit is by definition a charitable organization you can get money to and take a tax deduction for.  We are making contribution decisions out of public taxpayer money.  I don't feel comfortable doing that when we have people who are flooded out, roads, sidewalks, people who can't afford rent and mortgage.  I can't get their money away to a charitable, as important as the arts is.  I'm told everybody this strengthens the arts.  In a capitalist society they are competing with each other and if they have good programs they will be awarded by the public.  The guy who was put on the list that blows their mind, it's $1000 but the writing program.  We have a 1.4 billion school budget that we are being asked to give more public money to a writing program.  There is only so much money we can take on the public.  The problem I see is if we approve this we give it to them.  I do agree with Mr. Santiago.  And somebody emailed me today and say they agree completely that this shouldn't be taxpayer-funded.  But I feel like you went back on the word that you told him this was a last year.  He said I don't remember saying this was the last year.  David said it was and I think he withdrew it.  I'm not in favor of reducing Echo.  If the Council wants to vote for this that it is the final payment, I can do that.  I think I'm just going in perpetuity with spending tax payer money.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I want to clarify, the proposal before us at nothing to do with reducing Echo.  I want to make sure for clarity purposes.  

>>  If we bring it up the next budget season.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I'm good.  Thank you.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Anyone else?  Okay.  Two public comments.  Guess who.  Keith, actually both of them say that you were the second person so Keith Chester and John Nicholson.  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: I just remind you all.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: I'm sorry.  She did give me a third.

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: Same way with the roads it has been pushed down time and time again.  The can kick down the road.  If you bring it back next year to discuss again I'm afraid we're going to end up where we are at and I'm still going to end up.  At some point someone has to pull their britches up and make our decisions on put the foot down.  If your roof is leaking, do you paint your house?  That is where we are at.  Staff went over the needs and he said it's only $611,000.  Over the last 10 years that the $6 million.  How many feet of sidewalk with 6 million have done.  What water issues could have been helped.  Anytime I talk about how the government is handing out money it's a tiny amount but it all adds up.  At some point you have to decide where to cut.  Somebody has to be the dad.  You have to say no at some point because he of these other things they were responsible for.  If you don't take care of them you're going to be as guilty as the last 10 councils and didn't take care of core needs and are now at a critical juncture.  Somebody has to make a decision that is a tough decision but it has to be made for our future.  Everyone talks about the kids and veterans.  Again, we all benefit from good roads, sidewalks, and infrastructure.  Every single one of us including businesses.  There is no group you can add to make your poster child that does not benefit from the government doing its core responsibilities being Road, sidewalks, public safety, fire.  That's where you need to be investing our money.  Thank you.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: John Nicholson? 

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: I go back, you never discussed what core is.  You have to determine what your core is.  He is saying you shouldn't educate your population, that is not part of your core.  No.  You are saying we should not educate.  Quality of life is an education.  Sports are one part of our quality of life.  So is our arts.  I preposition is you already budgeted this money.  You spent it this year.  Budget is not coming until when.  October of next year?  When is the election next year?  A couple of days later.  They can do without for a couple of days.  It's on the ballot.  It makes it very easy for Lisa to add one item to the ballot.  Do you approve of using Echo funds for the maintenance of those buildings that you paid for over the last 40 years.  To me if you get 72 percent of the people saying you have excess funds in Echo right now.  What was it $26 million?  You can't give it away.  We keep building up this bundle of money to do these brick-and-mortar and we are not spending it.  That is why we went to two events a year to get this money out.  So we have the money so why not spend it on the maintenance.  If we are spending it on the roads because there is no sense in having these areas and not using them.  There's no sense in having these opportunities.  And it is minority children are a loft of these are people who cannot normally afford the arts could not afford music or whatever.  It is not a giveaway.  It is educating our population.  The arts supported education.  Pass it this year, next year put it up to the population.  If they want Echo in Volusia ever and they vote for using this fund in the 27 percentage, you are clear this is exactly what the population once.  Thank you.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Cameron Vincent?  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: Good evening.  Art House Executive Director South Daytona Florida.  I would like to say thank you for calling in the investment because that is what it is.  We talked about you double your money.  It's a 100 percent return on investment.  We are not asking for free handouts.  We are using the investment to provide free and reduced programming to underserved Volusia County residents in our County.  Thank you for that.  I do want to talk about the fundraising.  We all fundraising.  That is what we do.  We don't sit around waiting for handouts.  Everything we do.  Every time we talk about our programming, we are fundraising from scholarship fundraiser to art house sales.  We do our street painting festivals.  We don't stop fundraising.  The problem is the majority of the companies and businesses that donate to small nonprofit organizations are hurting right now, too.  This grant allows us to provide for art house 217 scholarships for camphor childcare and for arts education that are helping families out that are struggling.  That is just one sob story of a thousand with our organizations.  We are trying so hard work I don't work for art house for the money.  I make less than a buggies cashier.  I have a second job.  This is about serving the community and trying to create resources and programming to make us more than a two day weekend trip to the beach that is now disappearing.  They come for the beach, they come for the race, they stay for the ark, they stay for the culture.  We put heads in beds.  It's a $1.99 earned for every dollar spent on this grant and on the not only are we making it a tax revenue we are providing so much programming for people who can't afford it right now.  We are not asking for an increase.  We are not asking you to continue funding us for a million years.  When you told us we listen.  You said you did not want the money to come out of the general fund.  He did not want to pull the money without the taxpayers having essay.  As soon as you told us that we begun the steps in getting this on the ballot so if the taxpayers choose to vote for this, if they choose to make us a part of Echo or make it a separate echo they can make their voice known.  Please just give us the chance.  Reinstate the funding for this years budget, please.  We need it.  Thank you.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Jennifer Marano?  

>> PUBLIC SPEAKER: Hello again.  Thank you for continuing the conversation.  It hurts me some you may have the impression that we don't fund raise.  We fund raise nonstop.  We are the biggest penny pinchers you will ever see.  We have staff who work for free have the time.  My salary staff, if you figure it out they are making less than a buggies cashier were less than a kid coming out of school.  The passion is there, the fundraising is there.  We meet with potential donors regularly.  When you are cultivating a relationship with somebody you can't just walk up and say I am Jen from the hub and I need money and they had to $100,000 check.  We hustle all the time.  We are out there talking about the programs trying to get individuals and donors invested in us.  I don't like hand out.  That is not who I am.  We will work for every dollar we have.  But when we do have outreach, in my case that is $100,000 out to the community.  We are not receiving funds for that so all of these programs, we have to pay for and keep the roof on the roof fixed and lights on.  Please don't have the impression we are just waiting for a check.  We worked 24/7.  We go to bed thinking about how can we raise more money and we wake up in the morning and are ready to go again.  That is what nonprofits do think that is what nonprofit staff do.  It is all about the passion and we work for it so thank you.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.  And that is the end of the public comment on this.  Councilman Kent.

>> TROY KENT: I have not weighed in on this so I appreciate the latitude allowing me to speak at this time.  I am not going to bore the Council anymore talking about how much my family and I enjoy the arts and we go and spend our money where we want to when we are enjoying the arts, but I'm sitting here thinking how many times does this come before us in the three years we have been here.  Why?  Why does it keep coming up?  I didn't bring it up, other council members did.  I believe there has been some indigestion, some concern with this coming out of the general fund.  I have a problem taking taxpayer dollars and holding it here and handing it out over here and choosing the winners and losers.  I told you all the story.  I got beat up.  I had three people run against me and most of it was because I would not commit taxpayers to spend $10,000 on a Mary McLeod bassoon statute in Daytona Beach.  I was in Ormond Beach city Commissioner and I got beat up because I would not take a vote to spin Ormond Beach taxpayer dollars on a statue in Daytona Beach.  Troy and Heather Kent wrote a personal check to the Mary McLeod buffoon statutory fund in Daytona Beach because that is how much I believed in it.  I didn't think it should've come from the taxpayers.  That is not my call.  By the way, I lost 4/1.  They wanted to send 25.  But because I barked a little bit it only went to 10 grand.  True story.  Go back and check the records.  This has been indigestion and issues for several members on here.  Not all of them but several.  Why have you all brought this up?  Why?  You are just going to give them the money again.  Why are you putting them through this.  We have been yelled at tonight, fear mongers where one group is talking about everything they are going to get rid of and it was everything for kids, by the way.  Did you hear that?  50 percent of this from the kids and 47 percent from the kids, that's not accurate but it is what it sounded like.  It is fear mongering.  Because of use seven gentlemen we are going to have to cut these programs.  No, that is your decision.  You design what programs they were going to cut.  Want to cup from the kids, that is on you.  Not on me.  I am for the arts but I am for me paying for it and me getting what I want to give out what I make and I bring home after the government hasn't already taken 50 percent of my wages that I have made.  Okay?  I just ask this.  If you want to vote on this and he goes, please do me a favor and don't bring it up again.  Don't make me go through this again.  Don't make these fine people go through the spirit and they are fine people even though they got up and yelled at us, I think they are fine people.  We are passionate about it.  How dare you what is mine.  What?  That is not yours.  That is the taxpayers.  It feels like that when it has been 36 years, 36 years gentlemen.  When do you say I appreciate what you give the community and I want to support you privately, but it is not my role to hand out taxpayer dollars.  They can beat me up on social media, comment disgusting terrible names.  That is on you.  To sleep with what you have done to people and what you say to people.  But it is not just the arts.  I won't take your taxpayer dollars and give it to another group you don't think is worthy.  Because I don't think that is my role.  I just ask if this comes, if we vote on this tonight even though technically probably we shouldn't.  The chair is spot on with that.  Just do me a favor.  While I serve with you all, let's not bring it up again.  I am tired of dealing with this for hours upon hours when you're going to end up voting for it anyway.  Thank you chair.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Councilman Santiago.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Thank you Mr. chairman.  Thanks for your passionate comments and your history lessons on it.  To add to that history lesson, if you recall the last two years who brought that up each year, it was myself.  I have brought it up and I said to people that supported my efforts during those times.  I have to be honest I largely felt alone and I took the brunt of all of that for two years.  It was largely channeled to me.  And I didn't bring it up for the reason you said a few minutes ago.  I also didn't bring it up because I figured the last time.  This is where I am stuck the last time we discussed it we said let's create this new program.  I feel compelled to my word.  I have my philosophical fiscal concerns, Mr. chair.  To understand your fiscal concerns.  Very similar to mine.  But I'm struggling with my words I gave that I created this program.  Now, I didn't get my word on the longevity of the program but people went through the process for this year and all of us voted for the budget.  I think it was 7/0.  And it included that money.  Those two pieces make me struggle.  If we have this discussion in the budget it is a different.  I get my word when I created this program.  If we don't take it I don't know where the vote won't go.  This is when I can't predict.  The dealmaker in me says how do we strike a balance here.  May be the motion changes.  I'm not suggesting this motion yet but maybe a changes senses we fund the ones that are current, the 597,000 and it is the end of the program.  I'm trying to strike a balance because the motion says come up with options for next year.  We are going to go through the same thing next year.  And you are right.  It has been happening for three years.  I don't know if anyone wants a bite on that but I know we have a motion on the floor Mr. chair.  I want to throw another idea to see if that helps.  And is a hot topic.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you for the idea, however, I'm going to go back to what I said before.  Neither one of those should we vote on tonight.  According to our rules if someone has a motion to vote it has to go to the next meeting.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Have an answer.  I think our rules allow for things to be, it can be accepted as a continuance because no action was taken at the last meeting.  I think we are in safe harbor here.  Maybe they will disagree with me.  

>>  I Thank you are both actually right.  You have on many items decided to bring back an agenda item on issue.  I think you are legally allowed to take action, but as the chair noted often times he may decide to bring them back in the form of an agenda item.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Do we really want to go through this again for four hours?  I don't think the body wants to do that.  I think we are ready to take action.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: We are going to go through it again every year because we can't make a decision, and philosophically as much as I love the art, our taxpayers are going to give their money away for our choice.  Okay.  I was going to call the question but Jake, your name is on.  

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: No, so again we give the money away when we approved the budget.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: No, we didn't.  

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: We already assessed the taxes.  We should have just not assessed the taxes.  Number two, normally we would wait.  I still agree with you and I still think it should happen.  As painful as that would be.  But the reason we do that is because it doesn't give people ample time to communicate to us, however, I Thank you all have the same amount as I got in the people that would argue for it were here.  The person who argues against it, at least via email was here including us arguing against it because we did once before.  I would be comfortable either way, but because of the rule follower thing, which by the way we did set up a program that we are -- on.  I would like to go to the next meeting and be quick about it.  The longer we talk about it the more doubt gets put into question and we make it quick and vote for it or against it and be done with it and move on.  That is all I have got.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Okay.  Then I think the only way we can get there, Jake, is to deal with the motion that and and if it fails, which the motion is to approve a list applicants this year and then take it up again during budget season.  We can vote that down and bring your motion up to bring it back at the next meeting.  Although I Thank you are right, I really do.  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Rip the Band-Aid, make him vote.  We are in good legal grounds.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Okay.  Let me state the motion one more time and if anybody thinks I misunderstood it.  I want to get this one right.  The motion is to approve a list applicants for $571,926 and then we will take this up in the budget season next year to decide how we fund it.  Or if we fund it.  Okay.  That is the motion.  

>>  Can you advise who seconded.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: I was looking for that and I don't see it.  Who made the second?  Okay.  Matt made the second.  David Santiago made the motion.  Would you call the roll call, please?  

>> DON DEMPSEY: No.

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: Yes.

>> TROY KENT: No.

>> MATT REINHART, VICE CHAIR: Yes.

>> DANNY ROBINS: No.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Yes.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: No.  What is your total?  

>>  Motion failed 4/3 with Dempsey, Mr. Kent, Mr. Robbins and Mr. Brower against.  

>>  Again chairman we are back in the last position.  It is going to come back again.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Okay.  So the motion fails.  You can make a motion of what you want to put on the next meeting, but we shouldn't vote on it tonight.  If you want to make a motion different than this.  Okay.  What does this leave us?  I am asking the county attorney because you said we didn't make a decision last time.  I think we made.  

>>  No grant applications have been approved.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Right.  Okay.

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: And David, are you done with your counselor comments?  

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Yes, sir.  Thank you.  I'm sorry, I did remember the one thing.  If I may.  I wanted to bring it to the Council and share the legislature is working again this year on affordable housing initiatives, including ADU law legislation on removing redtape mostly on them and this year is going to be a part of it.  If I recall, this council about a year ago, may be shy of a year ago we suggested some changes also on our policy regarding ADUs and some flexibility there.  In helping to promote ADUs capabilities removing barriers.  I wanted to put it on the radar.  Unless there is objection I want to see if we can get staff to give us an update on the.  I want to be I want to be a leader.  I want us to be leaders.  Unless there is objection.  I think we have already given direction, we are just waiting for it to come back.

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Deputy County manager?  

>>  Mr. Santiago and members of Council, from the draft legislation we have seen come out of committee week, we already comply because we have modified our ADU provisions significantly in Volusia County.  How about if I ask our team to prepare a summary of how our regulations currently exist.  We will send it to all of Council and if you would like to talk about it more happy to.

>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I wanted to add fee barriers there.  There are feed barriers.  The concept is affordable capabilities and there are barriers in our process I think that makes it difficult.  For that Council information to decide.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Okay.  That was your closing comments.  The end of your closing comments.  Okay.  Jake, did you ever get finished with yours.

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: I never got started.  You know, I asked the lawyers from D.C. who served us notice to stay.  Are they back there somewhere I can't see?  I'm going to ask for the public and for the record for Ryan to come and explain to me how we pay for the judges and and everybody on the judges staff and things of that nature.  

>>  Chief financial officer.  The judges are employees of the state and paid for by the state.  There are some optional programs that we pay for pretrial services, drug court and that type of stuff.  

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: Do we pay for the Guardian ad litem?  

>>  There are some expenses we reimburse.

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: Is it a pass-through?  

>>  The Secretary, property insurance, cell phone bills very similar to article 5 responsibilities.  

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: Administration.  Got it.  Thank you.  I think that was a very important education process for us that things are happening that we might want to be aware of.  But similar to, her name escapes me.  Michelle.  I struggle because I want to help, but there is not much we can do.  And so ask yourself, after everyone I go to the department directors and say can you help her, can you help them.  But I don't think we are in a position to help that group with that problem.  I will pass it over to Mike.  Am I wrong?  Is there something we should be doing?  

>>  You are correct.  We do not direct the judges in how they process their cases.  There are separate.

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: There is no oversight.  

>>  The County Council is not the right party taken be complaining to.

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: All right.  Do we need to serve them notice that that is the notice of the notice?  I hope they are listening.  

>>  I will be glad.  One of us will follow up to relay that.  

>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT-LARGE: Perfect.  Thank you very much.  There's a couple things going on in town that might be of interest to Council.  There is a south east Volusia economic Summit on Thursday.  I encourage everyone to listen in or watch.  They are pretty interesting and they are going to be talking about the storm water.  We have a flooding subcommittee tomorrow at 2:00 at the Dennis McGee room in the public and everybody are invited as well.  That is all I have, sir.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Troy Kent?  

>> TROY KENT: Thank you chairman.  I had just a couple items tonight.  I want to start off with a positive.  And George, it is for you.  I noticed on social media our team is doing a really good job not only talking about but showing pictures of the ditch cleanings in the waterways and that is hugely important.  I know Mr. Ryan's group is working hard on not getting that information out there, but that is important for our residents to see.  There's no doubt in my mind it has helped tremendously, especially with all the rain we have had.  Great job there.  I'm glad that the news Journal is still here because this next one hurts my heart a little bit.  And I say a little bit.  But we received an email from George talking about courses on the beach.  I had a conversation with George about this.  And I have got to tell you, I probably had, and you have added probably the same.  98 percent emails against the idea of maybe two percent for the idea.  It might be 99 against and one for.  It is that close.  But the location is not feasible.  Not only is it not ideal, it's not feasible.  Want to thank you gentlemen for hearing me out on that idea.  I still like the idea of riding horses on the beach.  The location is wrong.  So for that location and since I made the motion I am now a neigh.  Too soon?  On the idea.  I am going to pull that and I hope that is okay with the rest of you gentlemen.  It's just, it's the wrong place.  We have done a place on the East side they can handle the trailers and then I think it is the right place.  But it is the wrong place about.  And then I wanted to briefly talk about before our meeting today we, several of us went to the supervisor of elections ribbon-cutting for her building.  I still did not get inside.  Wanted to make sure I had plenty of time to get back here.  But George and Suzanne, I love seeing some of my colleagues there but I was most impressed that you two were there.  Thank you for taking the time to be there for one hour constitutional officers.  She has a very positive, good working relationship I believe from what I see and that doesn't just happen.  She has worked on that relationship and she has not been secretive.  Not that others have.  But she will explain what she needs, the reason why behind the ask and is always willing to give money back whenever she has it.  That does nothing but help the investment in her and her program.  Somebody mentioned today when they were talking about her level of integrity.  As they were talking I was standing there shaking my head yes because our supervisor of elections, she is level of integrity to do the right thing all the time even when someone is not watching.  I'm appreciative of that appreciative for your leadership working on that relationship with all of our constitutional officers pick this one is the first one we got across the finish line.  The building on the outside looks beautiful and it serves the purpose.  I can't let the moment go by without saying the county owns the building in the County at some point in the future will start turning a profit because of the leases that we have their whatever we don't have leased out, get on who ever make sure they get it leased out.  Hope you have a nice evening.  Thank you chairman.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: You are welcome.  Vice chair.

>> MATT REINHART, VICE CHAIR: Thank you.  Expand on what you said I did take a tour of the inside.  And it is awesome.  Great job.  Janine Jennings, great job.  And she was recognized for that.  One of the things I was so excited for leaves to obtain the spot was the fact that we could be inclusive not having two separate locations one for warehouse, one for the actual duties.  And she took me through the warehouse.  Three bay doors.  She is elated.  She's definitely one happy lady right now and I also like the idea somebody gave her the kudos she deserves with respect to her ethics.  And nobody can go against where she stands for and that is appreciated.  I commend George to obtain the building.  Excellent choice.  It's in great shape.  It was hi.  You couldn't do anything about the heat?  I noticed your jacket got peeled off too.  And did for a little bit but other than that I have nothing else.  Thank you.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Councilman Robin.

>> DANNY ROBINS: Nothing.  Thank you.  

>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: You were done.  I just had one thing that was going to be too make a motion to adjourn.  No, I wanted to say one thing to Troy.  I know that was painful for you, but I Thank you made the right decision.  I think the one person that wrote to you or three of my daughters.  Against my best advice and may be Don Dempsey's daughter.  But they clean barns and picture what you are doing and then the beach.  But they still said we should do it, dad.  Anyway.  We are adjourned at 9:02 PM.