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>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: We will call the November 4, 2025 Volusia County Council meeting to order at 9:01 AM given a little extra time for the crowd to find seats.
They are still coming in which is always good to see.
Let me take  a minute to tell you how we will get started as the last few people are coming in.
In just a moment I will ask you to stand if you care to stand for the invocation.
If you are a member of a faith group who would like to participate in the invitations that we have before every Council meeting please just send an email to kgreen@thevolusia.org and she will get you all set up to do it.
Then right after the invocation if you would remain standing we will have the pledge of allegiance this morning's invocation is from.




>> Heavenly Father, thank you for this day.
Thank you for this great County.
Thank you for the gift the government is when it functions the right way.
You have called government servants of God among the men and women who are leading us today when they view themselves rightly they see themselves as servants.
Servant leaders are going to hear many cases that have layers of complexity and complication and the people that will be presenting or perhaps struggling and aggravated understanding and a listening heart.
Bringing issues that they want resolved.
Bring them the ability to articulate them without bringing too much of their emotions, I pray that justice would prevail and honesty would prevail and that you would continue to bless this County, bless the women and the men who are in leadership positions Lord.
I pray all these things in the name of Christ, amen.
[Pledge Of Allegiance] 




>> It was good to hear your collective voices together.
Crystal, would you call the role please?




>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT LARGE: Here.




>> TROY KENT : Here.




>> DANNY ROBINS: Here.




>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Here.
We have a full house and a quorum.
We will start with public participation as we always do when I call your name please come to the podium.
In the podium there is a button on the left side that would go up and down.
If you need that, make sure there is a microphone near her mouth so everybody listening online can hear you.
You will have three minutes to speak on any, any County business.
Something we may be able to deal with in the future and lastly, you can tell us what part of the county you are from.
You got to give me your full legal address for safety reasons.
I would just ask you to be respectful of the many people in the room.
We are a diverse crowd, a diverse County.
To be respectful in your language.
You can say anything you want to any of us.
Please be respectful to each other and the younger members that might be listening online.
So, first, nobody ever wants to be first but first today we have Adam and Adam will be followed by Anne-Marie will occur.




>> I am providing public notice pursuant to title 28 1746 regarding violations of title 18 to 41 into 40 to the Volusia Sheriff's office is at the center of a widespread criminal conspiracy involving attorneys and judges.
Evidence of financial crimes and coordinating this conduct is available for public viewing@volusiatruth.com.
Let me be clear when government officials knowingly violate the Constitution it is not a mistake, it's a crime.
If the Sheriff's office engages in unconstitutional conduct or to maintain federal funding approved by this council and if members of this Council knowingly permit or enable then each will be in violation of multiple state and federal statutes.
Florida  as a public trust one that will save against corruption and abuse.
Not repeatedly funded as abuse.
The sunshine amendment requires the establishment of a conference of quick code of ethics between public duties and private interests.
It further directs the legislature to create and enforce ethical standards for state employees and non-judicial officers during transparency and public service.
The Constitution of the United States is the supreme law of the land.
No state, country, court commissioner counsel has the authority to create or enforce policies that deprived citizens of their fundamental protected rights.
It risked violating misuse of public funds, obstruction of justice and the concealment of criminal activity.
Under both Florida and federal law the penalties for these acts are severe.
Let me remind this council.
An oath of office is not a formality.
It is a binding legal duty.
When public officials knowingly ignore, conceal or continue to fund corruption they crossed the line from governance into criminality.
The law does not excuse silence, it punishes it.
I am providing formal notice of criminal conspiracy.
With a notice of all violations and response to memorandum and a completed letter.
You can properly report back to me and you can properly report all criminal conduct to the FBI and United States Attorney for the middle District.
Gentlemen, my life has been destroyed because of corruption in this county, financial crimes.
People like Heather, Christina Bilotti out here in the audience.
Tara Lau.
Our constitutional rights have been undermined repeatedly and it's just unfair.
We want what is fair and balanced and we want these crimes the Sheriff's office is involved in reported to the proper agency.
I'm going to provide service and do that with the clerk.




>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.
Anne-Marie and you will be followed by Ellen and I'm just going to tell you while Anne-Marie is coming down we have until 1005 for public comment.
The rest will have to be held according to our rules. To the closing comments you can say what you have to say in less than three minutes. We've got a lot of people that want to speak this morning.




>> I live here.
I'm the president of Volusia pride.
I'm here this morning to speak about the arts.
The arts are not a luxury.
They are a smart investment in the future of our community.
Arts funded organizations served thousands of dilutions across every age, every ZIP Code and every background.
These are the same organizations that bring people together, support our tourism economy and provide educational opportunities that our kids otherwise would not have.
The amount of the county budget allocated is a tiny fraction of total county expenditures.
The return on investment is significant.
According to the 2024 Volusia economic impact report, visitors generated 5.5 billion and total economic impact and supported nearly 40,000 local jobs and contributed more than 1 billion in payroll to our community.
Tourism spending accounts for 31% of all sales tax revenue, much of which comes from visitors shopping and dining at locally owned businesses.
Every dollar invested in the arts is a key component of investment in the tourism industry.
The arts give people a reason to stay longer, explore more and spend more locally.
They enhance the visitor experience and to strengthen what makes Volusia unique.
Over the past three years we've seen efforts to reduce funding for arts and cultural grants.
And this year one of the justifications used related to drug performances.
It is important to play out the drug performances that have taken place at arts and cultural organizations for years and have never been an issue for the committee or previous councils until now.
If it was truly drag that caused the objection than the fact that the shoestring theater should resolve that concern.
There is no reason to not fund the arts and cultural grants as promised.
The message we returned to to demonize constituents who don't look or think like you is deeply troubling.
I selected officials who represent all of Volusia County including the people who benefit from the arts who depend on inclusive cultural spaces and contribute to the vibrancy of our region.
Not just those who benefit from unchecked development.
Your responsibility is to every citizen of the county.
The artist, the theatergoers, those children who experience arts for the first time.
The older adult finds connection through local galleries and the businesses that thrive.
Because our community is culturally alive.
The arts are not nice to have.
They are essential.
They are a strategic part of our economy, our education and civic life.
The budget line is small and the impact is enormous.
I urge you to stand by the promise of the arts and cultural grants.
To honor the organizations who built their programming on that promise and to reject any notion that inclusion, equity and creativity are political liabilities.
They are the heartbeat of Volusia County.
Thank you for your time.




>> Ellen and you will be followed by Greg.




>> Good morning. I live in Orange City right now.
Funding for the nonprofit arts community is important because it empowers unrepresented voices, fuels economic growth and provides social and educational benefits, fosters community identity and supports the health and well-being of individuals and communities.
But you know this.
Nonprofit arts organizations often give a platform to marginalized groups and unrepresented voices providing support and smaller nonprofits we can only offer them recognition on a 25 foot – we can only offer them recognition on a 25 foot screened prior to a film.
Not their name on a building.
This is why, for us and many other small nonprofits, the grant funding is crucial, funding the nonprofit art community therefore is not just about supporting artists, it is an investment in the vibrancy, health and prosperity of the entire community.
I'm tired of coming before you men all right?
You need to do the right thing and honor what you already had budgeted, approved and then slashed the last moment after he spent hours and a lot of time preparing what you asked for.
Incorporated you for your time.




>> Molding clay the arts are a lot more than that and I think you know that.
And the arts are all around us.
The movies we watch, the music we listen to, the books we read are all created by a cinema, music and literary artist.
The sculpture and murals that grace our public spaces are all of the work of visual artists.
Many of them are local.
The efforts of scores, arts organizations make Volusia a better place to live.
French writer Voltaire said I disapprove of what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
I thought our counsel would have said something like I disapprove of such and such shows but I defend your right to say it, have your say to the arts.
As the rug is being pulled out from under our arts organizations I thought some councilmember would say hold your horses.
Studies prove that the arts bring out folks, community events that sustain our local businesses.
That is what is so eloquently explained.
From gas stations to restaurants to shops.
I moved to Volusia because of the exciting arts scenes.
And Daytona, the land of course.
And when the funding of the arts was suggested I would have thought the Council would have said no way.
You take your biases and restrictive ideas in other words when they are relatively small but the valuable amount of funding was cut off, what are we saying?
That food Volusia doesn't care enough to nurture its singing, dancing, painting talents of our children, our neighbors.
Your constituents.
As a newbie painter as I mentioned I would like to show you want to buy works.
Not necessarily one of my best stuff.
I would like you all to take this in.
Finally, with apologies to Michael, I say to you, this isn't politics.
This is personal.
Thank you.




>> Thank you for your comments Greg followed by Monaco followed by David Hill.




>> Good morning I am Greg from Daytona Florida.
I'm 75 years old and 65 years of those have been an evangelical Christian.
I've served in Christian foreign service.
So I come before you respectively to oppose the renaming of the roadway North Beach Street from Grenada Boulevard to Flagler County line as Charlie Kirk Memorial Highway.
Renaming a public highway is more than a symbolic gesture.
It is a public endorsement.
A way of saying this person represents our community.
Communities ideals and it deserves lasting recognition.
But in this case, we must ask, does Charlie Kirk's legacy truly warrant such an honor.
Although he was influential in his public persona his work was highly divisive.
He founded at age 18 and became a prominent conservative activist.
We risk turning our public infrastructure into a representation of public highways that serve everyone.
The naming of those roads should reflect a community's shared values as something broadly unified, not something that potentially alienates students , immigrants, LGBT Q plus people and other people's minorities.
After him less recognition and no exclusion.
If we want our public spaces to build community rather than deep in division then we must choose things that uplift broad values like service, civic unity and compassion.
Such a naming decision sets precedent.
Leslie's door is open to honoring partisan figures in our infrastructure and it becomes harder to maintain standards.
What criteria we use next is those with high visibility, only those aligned with particular politics. I believe that naming a highway should be reserved for individuals whose contributions are widely recognized and whose lives transcends partisan devise.
In this case, given the controversy around Kirk's positions and approach that threshold is not clearly met.




>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you for your comments.
Monica Emerson followed by David Hill followed by Jamie Stewart.




>> Hello, Monica Emerson with Miller Road.
Good morning.
I'm here today to voice my concerns regarding the storm water drainage applications nor has a clear resolution been presented.
We need to take an honest look at the existing problems and understand the impact.
We were lucky this year but we can't rely on luck to protect our homes, our properties in our community.
The next storm might not spare us.
That's why it's so important to fully analyze before granting any additional stormwater approvals.
I urge the board to pause, take a closer look and make sure we are doing this the right way.




>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you for your comments.
David Hill and you will be followed by Jamie Stewart.




>> Royal Oaks professional center has now applied for another permit.
Royal Oaks professional center wants to modify the connection to the Tremont Drive storm structure to minimize off-site runoff in their site system.
They also want to build a retention pond in an already saturated area in their parking lot.
The modification of their Tremont Drive storm structure will divert all water from Tremont Drive that has been entering the Royal Oaks professional system for years and send it all to Miller Lake.
Royal Oaks professional center has decided it does not want any off-site water entering their property, Tremont Drive is a private road that Royal Oaks professional centers only road for access.
This road is not part of the Miller Lake community.
Why should the people of Miller Lake be forced to take someone else's water?
Benjamin Bartlett says the county will not object to the permit.
The county is saying it is okay to plug a drain away from one person's property and send it to another person's property.
Let me say it again.
The county thinks it's okay to plug a drain that has existed for years and divert that water away from one person's property and send it to another person's property.
Miller Lake can't take any more water.
We are asking the county counsel to tell the County to stop opposing this permit immediately.
Thank you for your time.




>> Yes my name is Jamie Stewart and I live in Volusia County.
I would like to address the issue of defunding culture.
I want to say the quiet out loud.
It's not about the money.
$600,000 is only a fraction of the county's annual budget.
It's about the moral objections of Councilman Robbins who pulled it from the consent agenda.
Now, this counsel has chosen to strip its backing of multiple art and cultural events and venues over what I perceived by them but what is perceived by them as immoral.
I dare to say that the morals represented in this room differ greatly.
It is not up to the Council to punish those who may have a difference of opinion.
This county needs art and culture to make it a vibrant place to live and visit.
I moved here when I was 11 years old.
And I just turned 77.
Therefore I've spent 66 years in Volusia County.
For most of those years this county has relied on auto racing and motorcycle events for entertainment and tourism.
I finally saw the art and culture possibilities emerge.
Our classes for children and adult seniors can be found at various locations.
Art walks on the streets in most of our cities bring locals and tourists into businesses like theater and has given local artists and musicians a place to highlight their skills in the big screen movies.
It is now the county's time to restore these funds and promote art and culture.
Growth makes their own decisions as to what they see and hear.
If you find yourself in the crosshairs of your constituents your response should be then don't buy the ticket for those events.
Thank you Mr. Reinhart.




>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Charlotte followed by Douglas Frederick.
Followed by Mary.




>> Hello I am a share of the cost.
My apologies to the clerk.
My handwriting is not the best.
I am a resident of – this is my first time in these chambers.
I'm here representing my family.
None of whom could be here today.
I consider myself lucky to live here and to raise my family here.
I'm here today to advocate for the restoration of the arts and culture funding.
It funds activities and opportunities for my family to enjoy together.
As Anne-Marie and several other people have said earlier.
Funding arts and culture is not a luxury.
It is a quality of life issue and the ROI is high.
Again, as they said, I want my tax dollars to go towards the items which this already approved .04% of the budget as already said it would provide.
This includes free programs for seniors.
Veterans and children.
Scholarships and reduced fees for local arts camps.
Special exhibits.
Historical speakers and chances for all Volusia citizens to participate in all types of cultural opportunities.
This comparatively small amount of money goes a long way towards the hard-working nonprofits that it goes towards.
Thank you for your time.




>> Thank you.
Douglas Frederick.
I keep wanting to say Frederick Douglass.
Come on down and then, followed by Katie followed by Catherine Levinson.




>> People have called me Frederick Douglass since birth.
My name is Douglas Frederick and I am a resident of Edgewater Florida.
With respect and sadness I come before you today to present concerns about flooding, flood risk.
I started my documentation the T20 to of 25 related to a development that we submitted on 8/2/24 but no public disclosure.
I presented documents to the state of Florida Volusia County and city of Edgewater 59 page document submission of evidence with over a thousand pages of documents, a collection of evidence.
I submitted statements on May 19, 2025 to the city of Edgewater.
The city of Edgewater.
October 29, 2025 to the state legislature and I testify in your presence today for the first time.
I submitted a cease and desist to Governor DeSantis.
A cease and desist I respectfully request Volusia County please. I pray to God to protect every resident in Florida, every community in Florida from flood risk that is clear and plain view with documentation that I've submitted with clear risk that is in plain view.
I want no harm to the developer of this property.
No harm to any government official.
But most important to me, there is no harm to residents and communities within the state of Florida.
A complete investigation will determine that I maintain that the submission I submitted for legislation request which is a professional person that represents people is beyond.
Very professional.
My legislation request will protect every community, every resident in Florida equally by legislation request is equal protection, equal prevention.
I'm going to conclude with this one statement.
I respectfully request that Volusia County come together and just simply protect every resident in Florida and be the limelight to the state by showing that we all care about each other.
Please submit this cease and desist not to hurt or harm anybody but simply protect everybody.
A complete investigation I will present anytime you tell me that shows a plain view.
May God bless us and guide us.
And I tell you the presence of veterans today has made my day.
Thank God.




>> Thank you for your comments.
Katie followed by Catherine Levinson followed by Fred piece.




>> Good morning.
My name is Mary/Katie and I am from the world's most famous beach Daytona Beach.
I want to start by thinking about matching Reinhart for supporting the arts.
We always agree on everything but on that we can find the common ground.
When I graduated from the University of Tennessee many many years ago.
With my degree in the fine arts with a Masters in science for education with the goal of becoming an art teacher.
All we heard about many many years ago was how Florida was a fantastic place to work in the arts whether they were teaching or an artist yourself because Florida supported the arts.
And it was job security.
None of us want to be starving artists.
I fear that is starting to change.
I moved on here and taught art for many years.
Currently working at – now.
The arts have been life-changing down here.
That is something we cannot afford to lose.
I'm asking the Council to please consider reinstating the funding.
It was already applied for.
It was already earmarked.
It was Artie granted.
It was already awarded.
We were waiting for those checks to come in.
A lot of negative things are going to fall out because of this.
Please find it in your hearts to reinstate that funding.
We can readjust it next year.
And I so appreciate your time.




>> Thank you for your comments Catherine Levinson followed by Fred piece followed by Susie piece.




>> Good morning everybody.
I've been here about a month so I missed you guys.
Meanwhile I am coming in here because we were lucky this year.
We were lucky at our place.
Not everybody's place but we were lucky and our place for me and my fellow residents that live in this orange city part by Miller Lake.
We didn't get bombarded with a hurricane like we did last year.
We did get one storm that was really bad about two weeks ago where we had 5 inches of rain around but our lake didn't really go up. Three days later when it really went 5 inches.
I guess what I'm doing is I'm here to tell you please misdirect in the wall please don't let Ben Bartlett approve of that new thing they Royal Oaks let them drain into us again.
Please don't let that happen.
We've been coming for a year every two weeks and we are begging you to stop some flooding if you can.
I know you can't stop it all around the county but in hours, you can.
It is clear, it's easy to do, just stop it.
You guys are flooding us from orange city. That's what we are here today to tell you.
I know Ben has already said he is going to do it and we have that in an email and writing.
And that is not fair. We are private citizens and we are getting flooded and please just stop that.
I want you guys to be aware that that is what happened.
Ben has Artie said in an email that he is going to do it.
That's not fair.
So that's what we are here to do today.
Please don't let us get flooded anymore.
We Artie got that last year, we are done with it, that's it, have a great day.




>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you for your comments by Susie piece, do you know her?




>> I graduated from the University of South Carolina and my first really big job was from the South Carolina arts commission and the national for the arts to be an artist I know my first week of being on that position the school I was working with took me to a city Council it was a coffee table one of the Council people look me in the eye and said you mean my tax is paid for you being here.




>> Landscape architecture when I was in the above infrastructure, fountains, plazas.




>> This month my wife and I will write two checks to Roberts for a little over 10,000 and I would like to think that even a penny at that would go to support the arts.
I would like to think that I was giving back to the opportunities that were given to me.
Wake up.
The arts were always supported by patronage.
Throughout history we just came back from a trip where we went to the Museum of Modern Art and to museums and Montréal.
You're looking at the class art and are always supported by patrons.
Always supported.
Needed.
Wake up.
Thank you.




>> Thank you for your comments.
Susie piece.
Followed by Marina, Morgan.




>> Hello Council.
I am here to ask you.




>> Sorry I'm here to ask you to vote now to restore arts and culture.
Come on.
This is ridiculous that this has happened.
Have you not been to the Brown and Brown Museum?
Have you not been to plays in Daytona? Have your kids and grandkids not attended beauty and the beast or Cinderella at the Athens theater?
Next spring the Athens would be resenting Alice in Wonderland and they are already asking for auditions from kids.
There is new art to show at the main Museum. We need them to complete us as people to take them away from our County. What would Bill say? He helped get a series of murals downtown that tell the history of our town.
What if Sanford or Mount Dora canceled for the arts.
As Fred said they don't always have donors.
We belong to cinema teak and we know we don't go over there frequently but if we want to we can go over and see art movie all right, let me make this – I want to thank Councilman Reinhart for being a champion and I consider those of you that did not vote for this Santiago, thank you for bringing it back and Mr. Johansson, I think you are chumps actually and I brought artwork in here to make my final point.
None of you can see this.
This is a painting by George fellows called – versus Dempsey.
This painting portrays a great fight between champion Jack Dempsey and Luis.
September 14, 1923.
The picture shows that Dempsey got knocked out of the ring.
I thought that was kind of pathetic however, he did climb back and through the ropes and wind about.
I'm asking you to be a champ.
Not a chump.




>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you very much for your comments.
You are an artist.
Marina Morgan, am I saying your first name correctly?




>> You are sir, thank you.
It's not an easy time to be a public official elected nowadays and, I have good news for you.
There is still time to walk this back and fix what you've done.
You've heard our constituents and there are just a few of us here today.
We each represent so much more so much more about Volusia County and ever we've come from, we bring the different mediums we worked in if you're not from here which is the case for me.
I moved to Volusia County specifically for the arts.
Sir, you were on my ballot last year. I am in your district and I represent others in the district to feel the same way.
Please walk back your mistake before it is too late.
I think the letter from all of the previous public servants in this area assigned together speaks volumes.
I would like to bring attention to that as well as things that others have said this morning.
Thank you so much.




>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you for your comments.
You are going to have to fix your name when you get up here.
Julia and then Tracy.




>> Good morning.
At Gretel I live in Daytona Beach which is a city and a county that is known for its beaches, the international Speedway.
Golf, tennis, motorcycles and if you asked my sister who lives in Port Orange, the pickle ball capital of the world.
Anyway, I am here today as others have spoken before me to ask me to restore the funding that was already allocated and approved for arts and culture funding and Volusia County.
It is what Volusia County residents want.
It is what we deserve.
And it is where we believe our tax dollars should go.
It is a fraction of the budget for Volusia County.
I want to try to reiterate what Artie has said about the previous 10 or 11 speakers who have spoken about arts and culture funding.
I want to give some personal examples.
Last week my husband and I attended an improv show at cinema teak.
A couple of years ago I saw one of my favorite musicals at Daytona Playhouse.
Pippen.
It was excellent by the way.
I enjoyed it – I can't even, I was blown away by the Audubon Museum of arts and sciences and we love to go to the shows at the planetarium there.
When my son was five years old I took him to see the Volusia Civic Valley.
He is a musician.
He was a part of the young actress company at Daytona Playhouse.
It was a company of over seven shows, musicals, radio shows, Christmas productions there playing the piano and acting.
He is not an actor, he is a pilot in the U.S. Marine Corps.
I believe it was his foundation that gave him the confidence and composure and certainly memorizing all those lines and where your feet are supposed to be really helps when you are a pilot and you had to keep your head cool.
These are some of the personal reasons as a resident of Volusia County that really urge you and I want to thank Councilman Reinhart and Johansson and Councilman Santiago for supporting arts and culture funding and I encourage you and I challenge you, not just to restore the funding for the to thousand 25, too thousand 26 year.
I encourage you to do it far beyond in perpetuity.
And I want to close by reading a quote from the letter that Marina mentioned.
October 14 2025 signed by 19 council members including nine chairs.




>> I want to talk about the cultural arts program. We are not to grant recipients ourselves, we are able to look at this happening with a little bit more thoughtful perspective.
I want to suggest to you that we need collaborative problem-solving here.
To get through a difference of opinion.
In doing so you have worked toward positive goals to improve the life of the people of Volusia County.
Let's do that again.
Let's put those skills to work.
There are many citizens in this county who are anxious to see this grant funding restored.
2500 of them have already signed a petition and more are doing so on a daily basis.
Many of them have as you note written and called and emailed you and they will continue to do so.
Most are not grant recipients.
They are people who are deeply affected by the arts and culture available in Volusia County.
So, how can we move forward?
The simple answer is to go ahead and release the funds who have Artie appropriated for this item in this year's budget.
It is not a permanent solution.
But it does get the issue moving and it keeps the promises you made when you made changes to the grant program last winter and those you made during the budget process.
Once you have made that step, the arts and culture community is ready and willing to come to discuss whatever exchanges the Council wants to make to the grant program.
Be the change in the funding screen or change in program we will act in good faith just as we did last year all we ask is that you do the same.
We are your constituents and we trust that you have our best interest at heart.
Thank you for getting this matter resolved.




>> Thank you for your comments.
Next we have Commissioner Tracy Grubbs.
Welcome to the Volusia County Council.
Who will be followed by Cameron Vincent.




>> Good morning Council.
Vice Mayor in Port Orange.
Cultural grants.
I think you've heard from everybody and what I'm going to try to do is wrap up a few things that you do not see or hear as I came here today I passed a sign two blocks away.
We see art under New Smyrna Beach under the bridges as you drive by.
We see arts posted and built and every County Park.
All of you work hard.
I understand that.
To do your jobs.
And from a city Council.
But at the same time, I understand that when a budget is approved and monies are set aside and people have their livelihoods and programs set on those funds to be released it is hard to believe that it could be denied.
Your constituents have asked over and over again, I look at it as part of not just as a councilmember that has housed my city.
But as a citizen.
That we look upon you to use the funds that you asked for in our taxes.
To be provided in the grants that you offer.
You've heard from everyone, the impact that it brings.
We used our house last year.
A little over two thousand kids came to our programs.
I sit on the Board of Directors for our house.
Seeing those numbers and the kids and the impacts of the lives that it does.
It changes and it's pretty remarkable.
But at the same time I am a business owner.
I look at the impact that it brings into our community.
For the city.
The restaurants.
The food.
The places that parents may go as their kids are in these programs.
That is not just a port orange thing.
That is every city inside this county that has an art program.
Those parents are doing something also.
I asked the council to approve what has already been budgeted.
These funds have been planning for this for years.
For most of our programs.
But don't let it jeopardize the kids and adult programs.
If you want to change it, you are contingent next year.
The young lady that was just up here talked about that.
Reformat the way the grant goes.




>> Thank you for your comments.




>> On another note, it would help me.




>> Thank you Tara, good to Cameron Vincent followed by John Nicholson.




>> Good morning my name is Tara Good.
I am a resident of New Smyrna Beach Florida.
Now that Tracy Grubbs has your attention I appreciate the opportunity to speak with all of you.
Some of you I know personally.
It is an honor to live in this county.
I've lived in Volusia County for over 20 years.
I am a graduate.
I am an active community member and I just want you to know I don't have a prepared speech.
We already have some new wonderful prepared speeches.
I'm just here to echo the comments made about the cultural grant.
This is extremely important to a lot of us.
I don't have children that utilize art houses.
Our house is provided for all of those other children that need places to go for their cultural experiences.
Cinema team.
I don't really need to go on and on.
I will save the microphone time for people that are more eloquently speaking but I just want to say I appreciate the opportunity and thank you for listening, thank you for your attention.
I'm just going to hand it over to Cameron.




>> Probably the last speaker will be John Nicholson.




>> Good morning Sharon Council.
My name is Karen Vincent.
I am the executive director of our house foundation.
I sent you all an email and I wanted you all to highlight that.
Great minds can differ on fundamental differences.
And social respect.
Every time I come here I try to give you the facts and I try not to patch it at all.
I give you cited and sourced facts.
I'm going to do that again today.
In fact, $611,000 is doubled and direct County tax revenue.
Fact.
This grant was pulled from the consent agenda due to moral objection.
The two organizations that were highlighted and that both fonts voluntarily and formally withdrew their application so funding could go forward for the other organizations.
They were together as a team to uplift Volusia County.
Fact.
The approved budget for the 2025 – 2026 fiscal year, the amount of $611,000, understands that you want to have improved roads and sidewalks.
And that information is generated from the information from the last meeting.
I hope you guys were able to work through that workshop.
It sounds exciting and I look forward to seeing what you did with that.
Your constituents flooded your emails giving their voice asking you to approve the disbursement of the approved funds this year.
I am a Volusia County resident.
I am a mother.
I am a taxpayer.
And I am employed in Volusia County.
I urge you to hear your constituents and create a legacy for yourselves defined by integrity.
Please approve the disbursement.
Approve the budgeted grant awards at the 2020 May 20, 2026 fiscal year.
We are ready and willing and hoping to work with you.
This is a partnership.
We wish to be your partners to help uplift and generate income for Volusia County so it can be put to that infrastructure.
Thank you.




>> Thank you.
John Nicholson.




>> It looks like we will have room for one more.
Time for one more Stephanie.




>> John Nicholson, Daytona Beach side.
God knows how many arts a couple of things.
One, when Pat had that list in the newspaper it's done.
They are going to reverse it.
This is history.
This is decades of public support from all of the elected officials that supported the arts.
You also have a program called arts and public places.
Are you going to cancel that as well?
You put aside money every time you build a building to have art in that building.
So, by what you just did, you must cancel that because that's wasted money on art.
Right?




>> Yeah, patrons were given money.
That is what some of you have suggested.
You will pay for it out of your pocket.
But historically when you have a king, when you have an upper, a pope, those are leaders.
Not elected.
But they are leaders of people and they have all supported the arts.
Every one of them.
And our history from what we know of it comes from the art left behind by elected officials.
We need this right?
I teach history.
But I also taught math when I wasn't allowed to teach history because of the color of my skin.
Teachers came to me and said why are you teaching spelling and math?
Why do kids have to know definitions?




>> I think holistically there are many things that make up a human being.
An educated human being.
And the arts are primary.
The arts are part of the culture we bring now, I'm almost positive you hear Miller Lake over and over again.
For a year now Miller Lake has been showing up.
I'm going to guarantee you if the arts weren't going to come back time and time again you budgeted it, do it and fix it for next year.
Thank you.




>> Based on the time that we started we have time for one more speaker still, there she is.
You don't have to run.




>> Hello, I am Stephanie Mason and I've been a resident in Volusia County for 35 years and now in Ormond Beach.
I'm here to talk about the grants and recently have spoken to several of you on the telephone and through email.
Thank you so much for your time.
It was a learning experience.
It was also very passionate just like the talks that we are having are about foundational beliefs and policies.
And I think genuinely we all want the same thing.
We want a better quality of life for our children and our residents are the best quality of life for our children and residents that we can have.
The conversations ended with an idea that perhaps we should agree to disagree.
I'm not sure that that is good enough.
I'm not sure that's good enough on something that is so important to thousands of County residents. I would like to suggest that perhaps the town hall style meeting be held where we can actually converse.
This is a one-way conversation at times and I think we need the opportunity to listen and learn from one another in a respectful way.
This grant cycle was very different.
Very different from all of the grant cycles that came before it.
The rules were changed, the process was changed.
The cultural organizations were put on notice that this program would likely be phased out over a. Of three years.
Nonetheless, the organizations, mine included, the Memorial Art Museum and Gardens rewrote the grants.
The volunteer cultural Council reviewed the grants and the amounts were added to the county budget.
Today I am respectfully asking that you keep your word.
That you fund this cycle of grant programs.
I think it is really a matter of trust, a matter of honor and a matter of integrity to the residents of Volusia County.
Thank you.




>> Thank you for your comments.
We have three minutes left and public comment and I noticed the next speaker up I didn't rearrange these was the mayor of Daytona Beach Shores who may have an update on the stormwater mitigation.
If you would like to come down and we could wrap up this.
The rest of you will not be forgotten.
I will hold you to the public participation at the end of the meeting.




>> Thank you chair for allowing me to speak.
County Sheriff, vice chair and Council members, Nancy Miller, speaking for just Nancy Miller today the cochair along with Volusia County Council Jake. We are the cochairs. I'm so pleased to be able to share with you today the continuing progress of our subcommittee.
At the last meeting on October 22 we had representatives from almost all of our cities in Volusia County and from the public.
We discussed the project city by city that is underway that addresses the flooding and storm water concerns.
Donna Butler provides over the $50 million that will strengthen stormwater systems and improve resiliency in six cities.
Those are Deltona, Port Orange, South Daytona along with County and nonprofit infrastructures.
I do see today that you are going to approve more resiliency programs.
I appreciate that.
One of the gentlemen that spoke before said that he would like all cities to work together.
That is exactly what we are doing.
Michael Ryan, our information officer working on several things that will increase public awareness on the numerous County and city projects addressing the flooding.
We are learning about a new countywide dashboard that will be showing up soon.
It will appear on the County website.
We are working together as shared communities sharing our best practices and lessons learned.
In my opinion as serving on the roundtable this is the best committee that we have had that we have seen the most effective progress made.
We are going to continue to collaborate to uncover every solution and every funding that is available to us as a County.
Our next meeting will be held in January 2026 the date and location will be announced well in advance.
We encourage public participation and will be available for your questions.
Thank you chair again for letting me speak.
I appreciate it.
Thank you.




>> Thank you for coming.
So everybody understands correctly, the rules state that we have one hour and 60 minutes for public participation to open the meeting.
We will repeat that again at the end of the meeting . You can speak on any item when it has those items you come up with, so you actually have three opportunities to speak.
The time to end public participation was 1005.
We wouldn't have gone through this many people if some of you had not been very brief and I appreciate that and thank you.
Council will move to the next item.
The first item, item 1 which is the approval of the agenda.
I would like to ask the council to consider moving item 10 to either the first or second meeting in January so that the public has more time to go through the to hundred and 73.




>> I will make that motion.
We have a motion to approve the agenda as written except for item 10 which is moved to –.




>> You want the staff's choice, first or second meeting?




>> Any comments or questions?




>> ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE, any opposed?
And the agenda is approved seven – zero.
Not a poll but to comment on after we approve it?




>> Councilman Robbins?
Does anyone have an item that would like to pull for a vote?




>> Second.




>> A motion to approve by Councilman Kent and a second by vice chair Matt Reinhart.
All in favor of approving the consent agenda please say aye. Any opposed?
Consent agenda is approved seven – zero and we will discuss item F. Did you need Brad to start or did you want to ask him a question?




>> Just a quick overview then I just have some follow-up questions going forward.




>> Item F this is our crisis support from rental and mortgage.
This is something that we historically have provided internally.
However last year we did outsource it.
There are two nonprofits that were selected.
The purpose of this was to enhance our program.
Also to save money by outsourcing we no longer have to pay for a caseworker internally and the contract is capped at a specific dollar amount so we actually save money by outsourcing that way.
It also allows us to work with multiple agencies to ensure, to try to eliminate more duplication of benefits out in the community. Instead of just working intimately by ourselves, we are working with multiple agencies to try to make sure that people aren't going from agency to agency to receive services.
There are also two main points I like to point out.
The cost to maintain housing by preventing people from being homeless.
These are people you're working for.
Maybe they had a car repair, maybe they had a medical illness, something came up.
We are paying about $1400 a month to prevent that.
And our rapid rehousing program when we have to re-house them is about $16,000.
In that program we use federal grants but there is a huge cost difference.
We really want to try to keep these in their housing.
Make it stable that way they can maintain it instead of being homeless and having to rehouse them.




>> Thank you Carmen.
Just a couple of quick follow-up questions.
The reason I pull this discussion, just to confirm this, is coming from the general fund.
Are we the only municipality that does this in the county from what I understand?




>> I actually did a little bit of research.
There are some others –.




>> You mean within Volusia County, yes.




>> So no cities participate in this?




>> Not that I'm aware of, no.




>> Will other services be offered out there?
Have we compared this to what the cities are offering?
Because what I'm trying to pretty much get down to is if counsel decides you know in the future to continue this program how do we do it through grants to free up the general fund and.




>> Right now, there are a few other nonprofits that provide this type of service, they are receiving grants through other resources but we are the primary provider of this service.
We provide over half of the assistance in the county for emergency rental and mortgage assistance.
I will tell you as somebody who manages the program, the need for it is significantly higher than the resources we have available.
So being one of the larger providers and there are ones that provide this type there aren't enough to go around this time.




>> As the manager, what areas were ZIP Codes you saw the most to be beneficial for the county to maybe partner with them since we are kind of putting the whole bill on those using it the most within the municipalities.




>> I could answer that over the top of my head.
I could probably take some guesses but I think it would be better to look at it and we can look and have discussions with the municipalities.




>> A couple of things I would look forward to in the future for continuous support of this.
That information as well as the oversight now that we are forming this out just a little bit to nonprofits.
A breakdown, I saw some staff numbers, I saw some program numbers in there.
But also where exactly that money is going, some of the data his or criteria to award this money.
People really need it.
But also just stronger oversight.
But that information for me in the future would be pertinent.
This is general fund money and I think we are ready to buckle down on it.
I just knew that going forward I didn't call for a vote but I would like to see that in the future.
See what counts us to say.




>> We have a couple people who have questions but I will start with a member of the public who wants to speak on this too.




>> I just wanted to clarify one question about municipalities.
Just a reminder that it is a general fund.
Those monies collected from taxpayers in the cities is a function that we do that the cities don't do therefore it is in the general fund.




>> Can you give us a brief explanation?
How are the funds dispersed in the decision-making for the entity and what they receive for what specific types of funding.
There is definitely a higher need for rental in our community.
So the agencies receive a percentage.
I want to say it is about 75 – 25% divide between the two agencies.
Based on the proposals that they submitted.




>> To qualify for these funds.
What are their emergencies?
How's flooding?




>> It could be a car repair, a medical expense that came up.
They have two working household members.
Somebody lost their job or they could've had a reduction so it has to be documented in the file.




>> Councilman Kent.
I want to make sure we are all hearing this so 20% of the funds can be used for outreach and administrative costs.
That isn't going to the people strike. 15% can be used for how you fund a caseworker.
By eliminating our position within the county we actually would pay more in salary and benefits to drive a caseworker than we are allowing.




>> To be  sure how much we would've paid unless we kept this in house with a County employee?




>> With somebody coming in with a base salary it is about $5000 a year.
But over time that can be much larger as someone has been employed longer.




>> We've already approved this but to the Council, a heat 20% not going towards the people that need it.
There I said it.




>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Thank you.
Gary Tester would like to speak on this topic.
Gary here.




>> We are one of the providers of the services that have just been referenced.
We have a privilege. I want to commend you as elected officials for having the foresight to support broad and Carmen in putting this program forward.
We serve over 25,000 people a year with the basic and not services.
Our goal is to assess what is going on in the household and do all that we can to try and help them to stay in their home so it comes under the Avenue of preventing homelessness.
44% of your households where it is the acronym for asset limited income constrained employees.
They are working families.
And because of different circumstances their ability to really progress an income is not there.
We try to work with them to make sure that we keep them in their homes as opposed to having them experience homelessness.
You go to apartments.com and you ask for the average rental rate of a one bedroom apartment across Central Florida. It is 1000. Let's say that you get started at 14 an hour.
You have to work out of 160 hours a month.
You have to work 113 and a half hours to pay that rent. If you have a two bedroom apartment and you are trying to support a family on two minimum wage jobs, you have to work 143 hours out of 160.
The money that you are allocating out of your general fund helps keep people in their homes.
Help them to stay on the course and actually allow them to continue to be sustaining taxpayers.
If they end up homeless they aren't able to do the things they need to do.
So our case managers use the dollars that you provided to help families.
So I just want to say thank you very much for what you do. We enjoy working with you.
We are privileged to be able to do what we do.
Thank you.




>> Thank you for your comments.
Before we left the consent agenda, there was another speaker I didn't see.
Melissa Lamberts, are you still here?
She wanted to speak on item H the housing of the – community.




>> That was quick.
Good morning, as you know, I have the honor of sharing that the county's environmental and natural resources environment committee gives me a front row seat to house sections 18 and 28 of SB 180 that are affecting our ability to respond to the impact of flooding.
This year you instructed – to prioritize the wetland alteration and coastal production ordinances. Last spring we delivered updated stormwater ordinances to you.
And you approve of them.
We're a little sick and we can't continue the work we began on floodplain management.
Wetland alteration and coastal protections.
Last week in my personal capacity I urged our legislative delegation to repeal those sections.
Last September, every member expressed their commitment to continue serving our community.
And the SB1 80 is no longer applicable.
Today you can formalize that.
Thank you.




>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: And we did.
Thank you very much.
Councilman Robbins.




>> Can we have the information on the next go round?




>> It looks like there is a four year renewal option.




>> We have a motion to approve the veterans appreciation day, the motion was by Danny Robbins and the second one was by Jake Johansson.
Was it him or you?




>> Okay.




>> I'm about to read a proclamation so I will let the proclamation stand on its own.
But November, our great opportunity to recognize all veterans.
We have a metric in Volusia County and Scott Olson and the team have done a great job with the Volusia values veterans program we are starting to charge forward with the foundation and I look forward to the next couple of years of success but in the interest of time, let's get this proclamation approved so we can read it and Pat can get her pictures.




>> We have a motion and a second to approve the proclamation for veterans appreciation day.
All in favor say hi.
Anybody opposed?
A proclamation with all of you in the room.
Passes seven – zero.
Thank you so much for coming, Jake.




>> Good morning everybody.
And before we continue, I just want to thank our counsel and manager for taking the time to recognize and honor our veterans here in Volusia County as we approach Veterans Day.
In the United States military and professional organizations representing across the county I would like to welcome and recognize organizations that have taken the time to join us today.
We have the American Legion Adam Quinn post six.
American Legion Baker post 187.
The veteran Association of Volusia County who had military officers Association of Volusia.
We have our Volusia Veterans Council.
We have the Vietnam veterans of America chapter 1048.
There you go.




>> Veterans enforcement motorcycle Association out of the city of Deltona we have representatives here from the barracks of hope and Volusia County career source or glory service dogs.
Team red white and blue.
Veterans court and of course Volusia County veteran services.
So after the proclamation is read any of these organizations are welcome to come up to the front and take pictures with the Council County leadership and of course a proclamation.
Thank you.




>> Being a good military guy and knowing darn well that you need a microphone for three quarters if not all of us are wearing hearing aids.
I would like to read the following proclamation.
Whereas November 11 has been designated as Veterans Day.
A time to honor and pay tribute to all men and women who have served our nation with courage, dedication and sacrifice in the United States Armed Forces and whereas the brave veterans of Volusia County have defended our freedom, preserved our democracy and protected our way of life through their selfless service and conflicts from World War II to present-day affirmations around the globe whereas these heroes return home to enrich our communities as leaders, mentors, employees and neighbors.
Continuing their service through civic engagement and community involvement.
And whereas Volusia County's trained and accredited veteran service officers service dedicated champions for former and current Armed Forces members and their families by helping them apply for the compensation benefits, healthcare and services they earn through their honorable service and sacrifice and whereas we extend our heartfelt gratitude to the numerous veteran service organizations throughout Volusia County that provide invaluable support, camaraderie and assistance to our veteran community.
Now therefore we the County Council do we hereby proclaim November 11 as veterans appreciation day.
And we encourage all residents to take the time to honor our veterans.
Thank them for their service and reflect on the freedoms we enjoy because of their dedication and sacrifice.
And it is signed by all of us in County Counsel.
Gentlemen, ladies, thank you so much.
For everything you've done for us.
[APPLAUSE] Click if you would like I can call each organization forward.
We will have our team first so they can get back to serving our veterans and we can get office and running.
Veteran services please come up.
[APPLAUSE] Clicks all right, if anybody from American Legion Post six months to come forward.




>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: American Legion Post six.
Here we go.
It's your time.
Clicks all right as anybody from Baker post still here.
I know they had to run and take care of some things.
Let's go ahead and move to our Korean veteran Mr. – I believe that's you sir.
[APPLAUSE] Right there, Ted.
Come on tighter.




>> We will move along with Vietnam veterans of America chapter 1048.
[APPLAUSE] All right, any representatives from VEMA?
A commissioner out of Deltona representing VEMA.
All right, our Volusia Veterans Council.




>> Volusia County career source.
It specifically helps our veteran community.




>> All right.
American Legion Post to 55 and war fighters motorcycle club.
And we have a representative here.
This is a representative from American Legion Post to 55 from the motorcycle Association.




>> All right, probably the one that everybody has been waiting for.
Old glory service dogs.
[APPLAUSE] Clicks we have it pay it forward packs.
Tracy.




>> County Counsel go that way.
That's good.
We've got two more to do.
Representatives from team red white and blue veterans court.
Many of the veterans not mentioned in any organizations or County employees y'all can come up next.
That will be it.
Anybody else?
Any other veterans?
Any of our County employees?
We have a lot that came out today.
come on down.




>> Before the last veteran leaves I want to ask Matt Reinhart he had a suggestion I wanted to ask the Council if they would consider.




>> MATT REINHART, VICE CHAIR: Thank you Jerry.
Why don't we have a POW flag flying in here?
It's a very good idea.




>> Motion was made by Jake Johansson.
The second was by Kent.
We had a discussion.
ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. And he opposed it?
Did you want to choose the column?




>> Thank you Jerry.
Okay.
Thank you all.
You're ready for item four which is a quasijudicial hearing rezoning from world residential to the transitional agricultural letter a three before we start. Do any Council members have any ex parte they want to declare?




>> No sir.




>> Not in the emails I received.
This is a rezoning from rural residential to transitional agriculture.
It is located off of an enterprise that you can see here on the aerial.
The rezoning is consistent with the surrounding areas.
You can see the existing rural residential area on the screen and then the green color is the transitional agricultural rezoning proposal.
It's really consistent with the surrounding area.
It already existing, similar zoning.
It's consistent with each map as well.
The rural residential is one unit per acre and the transitional is almost one unit per acre.
So there is no change and density whatsoever.
The purpose of the rezoning is that the property owner would like to sell agricultural products.
Within the transitional agricultural system you are able to sell products which are blueberries and what they grow on the property.
So the PLDRC unanimously approved the rezoning application.
The enterprise preservation Society also supports rezoning and there has been public comments.
We are here for any additional questions you may have.




>> A motion to approve.




>> Councilman Robbins makes a motion to approve.
Second was by counsel.




>> I just had one question.




>> Could you go back to that one map that showed the two properties and preservation.
Is that showing that one actually bleeds into the REAA already?




>> Okay.
It is.
I'm still good with it. I was just curious about that.
Thank you Jerry.




>> You're welcome.
Any other questions?
Any other comments?
All in favor of the vacation this is also a quasi-judicial hearing.
Does anyone have any ex parte?




>> This is item 5. 




>> It's still a vacation.




>> And still no ex parte to declare.




>> A motion to approve, by Robbins and a second by Reinhart.




>> Great presentation.
All in favor say I. Any opposed?
That motion carried seven – zero.
Now we are on item 6. Another proposed vacation in the Orangeville subdivision.
Is there any ex parte to declare?
Motion to approve.




>> Councilman Robbins makes a motion to approve.
Seconded by moisture Reinhart.
Questions for staff.
ALL IN FAVOR SAY AYE. Motion carries seven – zero.
As a resolution awarding nonexclusive collecting and Atlantic coast and Doctor Bartlett.




>> That is exactly what it is.
A nonexclusive solid waste collection.
Per our providers.




>> Okay.
We have a motion to approve by Jake Johansson and a second by vice chair Reinhart and Councilman Santiago.




>> Thank you.




>> Thank you Mr. J. For the public's purposes I think we should be proud of the way we do business this way.
A lot of people don't understand the complexities of these things but because of the way the county here and we selected to do a nonexclusive option that saves taxpayers that live in the un-unincorporated areas of the county a lot of money.
Especially businesses or new-home constructions or anything you would have to hire because of the way we do business here.
To do exclusive ones and staff, I think this is the way we do it for the unincorporated residents.




>> Any other comments, all in favor of the resolution?
Confirmed seven – zero.
Item eight, ordinance 25 – 23 and the local licensing a couple of years ago passed in legislation where they required specific state licensing for especially licensing such as installing doors, garage doors, siding with those types of licensing.
Got direction from counsel and we changed the ordinance in front of you.
So we are not duplicating that effort.
They will get their license through the states.
Probably save some dollars for our contractors too.




>> Our third year of trying to minimize government turbulence and get rid of the red tape and the barriers to getting stuff done.
Both in this case from a contractors perspective and it kind of makes things more competitive there are more contractors that is a pain in the neck.
Hopefully it will increase in competition as well and give our homeowners a little more of a choice so I appreciate it.
Thank you.




>> I just wanted to add to Jake's comments.
Another example: the trash contract saves our constituents money.
This also saves our constituents money that our contractors here in Volusia County.
It is a continuance of efforts we've been doing here if you remember we eliminated the business tax receipts.
We are one of the leaders in the state to eliminate the business tax receipt others have followed since.
Another example of making government more efficient and taking less money from our constituents so, thank you.
Lex is very motionless?




>> Motion to approve.




>> Any other questions?
Debate?
All in favor say aye, any opposed?
The motion passes seven – zero.
That brings us to ordinance 2025 – 24 in ordinance amending section 20 – 113B to add the area in Daytona Beach as a designated area that allows dogs on the beach.
And all of the dogs just left.




>> Director public protection.
That is exactly what this will allow dogs on the beach from Williams Avenue approach to Seabreeze Boulevard approach.




>> Councilman Santiago.




>> I was going to make a motion to approve Mr. J. 




>> A motion to approve by David Santiago and second by and a second by Councilman Kent surprisingly.
We also have a couple of members who the public would like to speak on this.




>> Can you identify the yearly cost?




>> Daytona dog Beach incorporated has volunteered to cover the cost of the waste we have, the enforcement of the dogs on the beach, the animal control portion of that in the zone there from one dog Beach to the other.
That's about it.




>> Thank you.




>> Okay.
John Nicholson.
Then the net.




>> John Nicholson, Daytona Beach side.
I don't mind having a portion of our beach.
Dog Beach having half of our city dog Beach is a bit much.
Having been told that dog Beach plans on taking all of our beach for dog Beach I'm not happy with.
If we lost the center of our beach that is just like 30 years ago.
We've lost now in the northern half of our beach, a dog free beach just a week ago.
We had a woman two weeks ago murdered by her own dogs.
Those things do happen.
Where as they are, they do happen.
I don't mind – actually I do mind three times the size, I'm asking you for the next counsel, you do not eliminate all of our beaches for dogs.
You are not aware that my ability to alter the beach from ISB from University is public for the people that live there. They no longer have free access to our beach because you've allowed your vendors, every inch of that area.
So when we go down to the beach to put our towels, we have to sit behind the umbrellas.
If it's high tide we don't get to go at all because the umbrellas have preference.
So, what you do has effects.
Those of us that live there, it is our economic engine.
That's going to lead to us.
But the county, every time you take another little bit away we lose something.
So I'm asking you, now they've done this please don't do it for the rest of the city.
Thank you.




>> Thank you.
We will have final comments from the Council.




>> Well, good morning council members, county management and the staff that's here.
My name is Nanette and I live in the Daytona Beach side as well.
But I'm here this morning representing Daytona dog beaching as its president.
And I wanted to begin by expressing our sincere appreciation for your partnership, collaboration and leadership in helping make dog friendly beaches in Volusia County a reality.
What began as a small vision, a single stretch of sand where responsible dog owners could safely share the store has grown into a true community success story.
Together we've shown that when citizens, volunteers and local governments work together with mutual respect and accountability we can create accountability that benefits both people and the environment.
Because of your support, thousands of residents and visitors have enjoyed this experience: families, veterans which we saw today, seniors and animals all united by the simple joy of spending time together at the beach.
Through our shared stewardship these areas have remained clean, safe and well maintained.
Now, as we look into the future we are often asked by residents and also by you is Daytona Beach ready and able to continue to help?
And I do want to make a statement very clearly.
Daytona dog Beach incorporated has never made a comment to anyone that we want the entire beach to be dog friendly. I correct what was said previously to me coming up here.
But our answer to are we ready and able is yes.
As a full and committed partner would be to provide additional areas in the South Daytona Beach area.
Daytona Beach Shores will provide we hear from people all the time that people want closer access.
So our area can be a statewide leader and coastal access responsible recreation and community partnership.
Councilman Santiago.
If staff could answer as a percentage how much are we taking of Daytona Beach is to do this.
Maybe to give us a better understanding.




>> The Daytona dog Beach area is 1.6 or 1.7 miles.
There are 47 miles of beach and Volusia County.




>> That 1.6 and how much are we taking right now?




>> A 1.6 miles is the dog beach area.
1.6 or 1.7 miles is the dog beach area.
I'm not sure of the coastline in Daytona Beach specifically.
Five or 6 miles, 5 miles in Daytona Beach.




>> And do we know again regarding Mr. Nichols' questions.
I mentioned beach chairs and stuff like that.
Access to our locals also.
It sounds like it restricts it somehow.
We know how much of that is also being utilized?




>> Requires them that the chairs cannot be set up closer than 10 feet to each other.
The public has access first and foremost.
If you would like to have your towel, your set up, your truck as long as the chair is not occupied?
100% deferred to the public if a public asset is not being provided.




>> You put something in my head.
I appreciate your comments.
I am concerned now that it would be taking almost half the beach in Daytona.
Why did we go so far?
We made a smaller area before.




>> At the prior meeting where this was discussed, the Council was presented with three options.
This was the largest one.
There is also the option from Zelda I think was the smallest one and then in between that was Hartford Avenue.




>> My concern with the size, Daytona Beach is our tourist capital of Volusia.
If you want to call it that.
It is a different animal.
No pun intended, it is a different area compared to Orman.
I notorious go to Orman.
But Daytona is the hub.
I'm concerned now that we went too far.
In taking – because not everybody is a dog lover all right?
Guys, I think we went too far.
I don't think there is a demand to do 1.6 miles.
Meaning when you look at Rhodes, how many roads are 1.6 miles of beach. First of all, I often comment that the worst place for business like this would be inside the government.
So I think for taking care of this and being good stewards of the beach to the best of your ability.
Number too, there is kind of like the first area that we approved.
If this doesn't work out for us.
We can always relate back in.
I'm all for trying something that I think is going to work.
Especially because I don't believe there is going to be that many more dogs on the beach and by expanding the area, we decrease the population density if we have $5 million on the beach and they are on a bigger portion of as you guys are well aware of I've lived all over the country and some of the places in the world where dog Beach is just a part of life and it kind of becomes a part of life.
I don't see the kind of dogs that eat people alive on the beach.
I'm not saying they are not there but we have sharks in the water.
We have alligators in the pond and everybody, just pay attention to where you are and what you are doing.
And we can live safely together.
I think this is worth a try.
If it doesn't work out we just really back in and cut it down.
But I don't think –.




>> I told him that after the meanings as we walked back to our vehicles.
I'm appreciative of that as well.
As far as the .6 miles and the 1.6 miles here.
I think a couple of things we need to talk about, they mentioned the area is 5 miles.
This isn't too.5.
This is 50% of each.
It is about a mile shy of 50% of the beach.
The other piece is you know, the agenda item came to us the first time.
The number of businesses and hotels that said we want this.
We are a dog friendly hotel.
We want this in front of our business.
That stuck out to me.
We've not had anybody come and scream and yell about how horrible this is except for Mr. Nicholson.
You didn't even scream real how horrible it is.
He just doesn't like the size of it.
That being said, I live in Ormond Beach and we walked to the beach.
That's how close we are for insurance purposes we are 1800 feet away from – a little less than not to the beach.
So we walked to the beach.
And I can tell you that on that busiest time I've ever seen the Orman dog Beach this will allow people to separate more and just challenge anyone on this council to go down to the .6 miles that is volunteers.
And not only that but their educational piece that is so important that people want this to succeed.
They've gone 37 years without this.
I am a rule follower.
So if you tell me where I can bring my dog I'm going to bring my dog to that location.
By the way, not just myself but those individuals who were also rule followers are going to clean up after their dog.
Number one, they are not foul, nasty disgusting human beings that would allow something like that but number too, they want this to work so they want to be good stewards of this community at the rare offset this wouldn't work, I agree we can come back to the table and say 1.6 miles we could do the smallest section.
If there is a problem but this has been wildly successful the entire city commission supports this and it has been extremely successful.
I appreciate that the net came forward and has a plan for other locations.
I'm going to tell you all this publicly right now.
I campaigned on this issue.
I fought for this.
I wanted one and every beachside community.
We did a small section to begin with.
But I'm going to tell you all right now, someone else is going to have to bring up another location if you want it.
I'm very pleased with the Orman location and I am extremely pleased with the Daytona location.
I just like to know.
Unless one of you individuals says hey, I've got constituents in my district.
Because my district is now covered.
When people ask for it, we've given it to them and you know, Mr. Reinhart, Mr. Johansen, chair and Danny.
And not to leave you two guys out but you don't represent each side area.
It doesn't mean you can't bring it up and I will support it.
I'm just saying I want you to have a level of comfort that I am not pushing for the entire – even though I think it would be – it would make sense and I would support it.
I probably would not be the one bringing that up.




>> Mr. Johansen.
I agree with you.
I think this is a smart move and I think it checks the box for our residents that publicly spoke about this.
Asked for this and it just goes to prove common sense can rule the day and when the day as well.
And, if there is a problem, we can deal with it.
I get shut off when I start hearing fear mongering and nonsense.
Someone sent an email about the dog mess is going to give everybody diseases or the dogs are eating people.
That's nonsense.




>> Councilman Santiago.




>> DAVID SANTIAGO: All good comments.
I appreciate it.
That's why I brought up the comment in question.
I think you are right.
My main concern is to make sure it doesn't have a negative effect.
I don't know the answer.
It would probably be positive but to the area that is important to the economic engine.
I'm ready to vote.
Thank you.




>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: I don't see any other comments so would you call the role on this one?




>> Mr. Johansen.




>> JAKE JOHANSSON, AT LARGE: Yes.




>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Yes.




>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: Yes.




>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: New dog Beach is established with a vote of seven – zero.
Good work on Mr. Kent.
Let's hope for good success.
Item 10 has been postponed, re-tabled, rescheduled for January and item 11 I would like to ask the Council to consider something a little bit different on this item but I'm going to let the – who is presenting it?




>> Carmen.




>> All right.
Good morning Carmen half community assistance director.
This is the children's family advisory board funding recommendation for this current fiscal year I took $0.6 million.
Back in – as you guys are aware, this program primarily focuses on funding programs that provide services to the working poor and elderly and disabled members of our community.
Just to highly on some programs that are funded after school programs such as boys and girls club and water safety initiative which is a counsel initiative for a swim scholarship.
We also fund through an early learning coalition.
The kindergarten readiness program.
So all five-year-olds are ready for kindergarten.
We also fund center retreats which cover the elderly population.
That gap between needing elderly services before long-term Medicaid kicks in.
There is a gap that we family members can continue working.
We recently completed a nine month process revamping the C FAP program.
We had an online survey and we also had a lot of public participation.
We also held stakeholder workshops so all of the providers in our community attended those workshops with great participation.
By going through this process we made sure that all of the gaps and services were covered in our five service categories.
At this time they did vote to remove contingency funding; it was designed to provide funds to agencies that did not fit into a service category.
We also align the goals to the workforce targets that are established by the Florida Chamber of Commerce that is the blueprint.
On goals that align with the blueprint established by the Chamber of Commerce.
We included performance-based milestones so, if these agencies had the milestones that are established they can receive an additional 10% of funding that is already budgeted so we will not be coming back for more funds.
It is accounted for.
They have to hit the milestones and can receive additional funds.
Then another really valid point to bring up is the return investment for every dollar we are bringing an additional nine dollars back to the community for these.
It is not just funding these programs.
There are others coming to provide these services.
Any questions?




>> Questions from the Council.
We will start there.




>> I will use the terminology.
We had this primary organization that also has some organizations below right?
From a process perspective do we put suggested practices or requirements to the primary agencies on accounts payable to the subs.




>> Let me just dig down.
Do you have requirements where we have to pay them within a certain amount of time from the service.
Usually it is services provided and built after.
In other words, do we have our primary squeak of requiring the primaries to pay within 70 days?




>> I do believe that is a requirement in the contract because we do have the – I think it is the 45 days and they do abide by that but I can confirm that.
So, our contract is also part of their subcontracts.
We have that requirement that would in turn be implemented for those agencies.




>> You can have a follow-up on that.
I just want to make sure we are holding them to a standard to make sure that the subs are of her concerns.
I haven't collaborated on it but that's what I heard.




>> Are we seeing a lot of usage with those programs?
For water safety.
We were able to.
We have four agencies and last year we provided 389 scholarships to individuals.
We also provided 374 door alarms to households in the community that way they are notified if a small child falls into the pool.




>> They are aware that somebody's leaving.




>> Thank you, no issues though.
All positive feedback.




>> Yes, very positive feedback and we were able to really expand this year. That's it for questions.




>> JEFFREY S. BROWER, COUNTY CHAIR: I'm going to go a little bit different direction because I believe this counsel has a higher obligation to then fund the request listed here today.
Everybody in America complains about out-of-control the federal government down to the cities yet we do the same thing at the city County level we spent far beyond our core responsibilities.
Today we are being asked to spend the money we have taken from families to help with the needs of another family.
We are generous people and constituents are always willing to help those in need.
It should be their decision, not ours.
We see it, we feel it, we want to help.
But are we reducing the needs put before us today or are we exasperating those needs and actually the ranks to the neediest every thought would be possible or legitimate.
It was going to be 3% for incomes the property taxes, fees and assessments upon every American many are forced to hand as high as 50% of their income to local governments all the way to the national government.
We must start with local governments.
We have a great responsibility to protect our neighbors and future generations. The Republic is on a collision course with socialism and communism which relies on the hard work of other people.
Too many people can't survive on what the government so graciously allows us to keep both parents have to work.
Many forgo having a family destroyed by the realization they can't provide adequate housing, food and sustenance for their own children.
The reality today is our constituents face the crushing force of burning some government none of us want but it hurts to see some seniors have to depend on others to bring them food supplied from the income taken from younger families but we will never break out to the redundancy of duplicated services from every layer of government.
Gentlemen, I know it is tough.
If you want to reduce the people with real needs on these pages you must reduce spending.
There is no organization on today's item. They are an excellent fine organization.
Not suggesting we eliminate any of the programs.
We are asking the board to plan from a future funded with generous donations because our constituents can't afford to decide to give to them to give to a nonprofit organization that may not be able or want to donate to.
That is not a donation at all.
It's theft.
The best thing we can do for future generations is to focus on our core government responsibilities.
And it is not the government's place to be generous with taxpayers money. The power of collecting and dispersing money at pleasure is the most dangerous power that can be entrusted to man.
So here's what I'm proposing.
Since we have never discussed ending this spending before, I'm suggesting that we approve these funds for this year. We think the families for their hard work and terminate that board today than every nonprofit board member in Volusia County should plan for their future budgets without asking for taxpayer donations.
I'm asking you all to end the cycle of redistribution and let our constituents choose their own giving after they have provided for their own families.




>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Thank you Mr. Chair.
Wow, I wasn't  expecting that chair.
You know, philosophically I agree with many of your comments.
My history here has proven that as an individual Council member I find ways to cut fees, taxes and things that were unnecessary in many cases.
I do agree with the portion of your comments of eliminating this program. Many of these programs are in the services that in some cases people would expect or in the past have been provided by the county.
I'm not prepared to blow up the Boys and Girls Club and I know you are suggesting to continue this year and I'm all for encouraging private donations and finding ways for us to get more private sector encouraging them to do stuff like that.
This is just a segment of the population that in many cases they can't provide for themselves.
I also agree maybe there's opportunities for our faith-based organizations to step up too.
But, this is – I think this is a quality-of-life service for a community.
We live in a civilized community and we help each other and I think these services, water safety education, are trying to prevent children from drowning.
You know, there are families out there that can't afford to hire a private swim instructor and, I'm not prepared to just pull the rug under these programs.
Too much good is done from this.
But I'm all for finding ways to reduce the size of our local government.
I think it is important to note also in my last three minutes that Volusia County is a – somewhat of an example amongst our 67 counties today with what we do.
We are an example.
Many state organizations from the finance side look at us as we don't have it perfect but we do it right.
We are pretty fiscally conservative here in this county.
Why doesn't – come to Volusia we are not perfect but it is more of a model but the state leadership would like for us to be but too much good comes out of this and I'm not prepared to pull the rug from under.
I think we can find other areas before we do that.
But I am all for looking for ways to improve the program.
Finding ways for them to do better on the private side and less dependency on the government side.
I think that's a good model to have in any government program and I'm not prepared to vote for next year.
Thank you Mr. Chair.




>> People with disabilities if anybody needs help from the government it is the persons with disabilities in my opinion because they cannot in most cases function by themselves.
They cannot provide for themselves so I think it would be an unwise choice to public safety when it comes to lifesaving programs like this you know, we service close to 400 swim lessons that is potentially 400 we've all jumped in a pool after one of our kids or someone else's kids that we don't even know what a public pool or resort or whatever I actually agree with you a lot.
Have you got a chance or can we look at before we jump headfirst into this or it fails maybe get a menu and separate the core needs versus maybe the non-core needs or we narrow it down and bring it back I also want to give it a opportunities so we can make those cuts as the board sees fit.
Just for consideration for whatever it's worth.




>> All good ideas.
I'll respond to that when it's my turn.
Jake Johansson.


Can we look at each organization or get a menu and separate the core needs versus the non-core needs?  If we narrow it down and bring it back there may be some stuff in there that we could eliminate.  What we have to do is identify the core needs and I think there will be a consensus that there is some good that comes out of these.  I also want to give it an opportunity so we can make those cuts as the board sees fit just for consideration for whatever it is worth?  
>>  Okay.  It is all good ideas and I will respond when it is my turn.  


>> JAKE JOHANSSON: Thank you Chairman.  One of ours possibilities is public safety obviously.  When you look at all the programs, at some point the boys and girls club rent things to set people on the right track.  So we are not paying for God for bid things like drug addiction, juvenile crime and things of that nature.  If you go down every one of these they have a use of our core responsibilities.  We keep talking about core responsibilities.  The parkour response ability is to save taxpayer money at any expense well then let's get down to it.  I am all for it if that is what we feel our core is possibility is.  But I think you're going to find our counsel or three or four down the line that they are going to be complaining that we got the programs to the point where now they are dealing with the second and third order of facts of canceling some of these programs.  Kids on the streets, mailboxes being bashed in and the sheriff is going to talk to us about drug use and for -- drugs.  This stuff saves that.  I do not want to bury babies because they do not know how to swim or float.  It is responsibility in my opinion to our citizens.  Do we have responsibly due to people who can make ends meet and can't afford a home?  But we have a responsibility to the other 400,000 people that live here as well.  I believe last year we had a community service advisory board five-year plan or a 10 year plan.  Didn't we have something come to our counsel last year?  That was my subcommittee thing.  
>>  It was expenditures which we are prepared for counsel again this year.  So you can see what percentages federal grants, state grants and general fund dollars and every year we shared that with you and we are finalizing it at this time.  


>> JAKE JOHANSSON: I like where the chairman is going in with trying to find ways to trim down the general fund budget.  I like that we want to fund this and maybe there are dollars but I think it is cut off our nose despite our face in this case.  I think we will find years down the road it was a mistake or we cut too deep.  
>>  Thank you.  I will respond Jake to you and David and I haven't suggested that we eliminate a single program.  You have underscored the larger problem when that is we seem to believe that neither the arts or the programs with us taking money from taxpayers and making their terrible contributions.  They do not go away because we are not funding them.  They go back to the board and plan on how and what programs do they fund and how do they fund them by very definition a nonprofit is a charitable organization depends on public giving.  I do not think the public can afford to give.  That is my issue.  That is my problem.  Because they are taxed enough already between tax and rent, mortgages, insurance and the cost of everything else, we have families leaving.  We have young families that are struggling to get started.  We have an obligation to look at them as well.  You will be back in a minute.  So I am not talking about blowing up any problems.  Families can't afford to give now.  Let's give them an opportunity to make their own charitable giving decisions instead of us making for them.  I do not want to wait until next budget.  We approve the budget and every meeting we are asked to approve millions of dollars of spending.  That is when it is finally approved is when we vote on it.  I think we should work on it all year or we will never reduce the budget to the point that we need to.  I think we are doing a good job.  A better job than most counties, I agree.  That is not why we are being deluged -- Dodge.  They are going to tell us what is funded and what is not.  I am not against these programs.  I am not against the arts, it is not our responsibility to give our taxpayers money out of the general fund to a nonprofit.  That is my belief at this point.  Danny, I really appreciate what you said.  All if that is good.  This counsel can decide whatever you want.  I am just telling you where I am.  If you want to look at each one, I think that is great.  Councilman Dempsey?  


>> DON DEMPSEY: Chair, I agree with you.  I think it is wonderful that you brought up the Crockett story.  Just as those of of you wouldn't don't know who that is, the Georgetown fire took down the families at that time.  He proposed to give $20,000 to the victim.  One of the boaters said he would not support it because it was a slap in the face to give money to what you think is a needy cause.  I'm so glad you brought that up.  You sound around -- Ron Paul.  There may be programs that are maybe good.  IMC $47,000 going to transportation.  We have already got other transportation funds.  We've got money going into daycare services.  There is a lot of money that I think could be cut.  Maybe not all but I do think the fact that your holding close to forcing taxpayers to fund charities.  I am glad you're going to that direction.  I want to hear what everybody else has to say.  Thank you for bringing it up.  


>> VICE CHAIR REINHART: Thank you, chair.  A lot of what you say, I will say as well and I understand where you're coming from and I agree with a lot of it.  I do like the idea, if you want to get this at a later time, I said before about the arts fourth quarter ninth inning and pulling the rug to say we do away with it all together today without giving the opportunity for some of these agencies.  Some are represented here today and some are not.  Without giving them the opportunity to plead their case.  Looking at the list right off the bat, I don't really see anything that I differ with with respect to what is core and what is not core.  I heard it said one time before agree to disagree.  Just like I did with the arts, I agreed to disagree.  On what I see as a chorus possibility and what others see as a responsibility.  A lot of these fundings whether you can verify or not is funneled from the federal government, correct?  
>>  These funds are general fund.  
>>  The vast majority of what we do is using state and federal grants.  


>> VICE CHAIR REINHART: We might see a drastic change in that.  That being said just keep that in mind.  I think that is something and I have said before, if you want to talk about this we talk about our goalsetting in January.  That is definitely I think the time.  But to say we approve is this year and then that it is its without giving opportunity for them to come to the table.  Looking at my district there is a lot of people that are hurting.  In the Daytona Beach Midtown area and not by their choice.  That is just something to think about.  
>>  Just to build on that we have over the years there used to be many more service categories look that.  What are our course possibilities?  Where are there gaps in service in our community?  That is what the funding is about.  Is there gaps where federal or state money is not available and we are standing in that gap for our community.  One of the things that we did aligning with this counsel philosophy is moving to this using the chambers measures that are here the outcomes and measures to really say, we need to make that 2030 blueprint we need qualified workers in our community.  We need people with employability skills.  We are trying to accomplish two things with this money.  We also move to performance based contracts.  You will get to the 10% and we are giving you 90% but you have to perform above and beyond to get the additional 10%.  That is another thing that we have implemented based on the things that we are hearing from this counsel.  Asking about leverage dollars.  If we are investing in dollar, what is the return on investment?  These are all questions that we are asking ourselves and asking our selves who are filling the gaps and providing the evidence and outcomes to support that they are moving the needle for us.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: Councilman Troy Kent?  


>> TROY KENT: Chairman, I mean this only as a compliment.  I hope you take it exactly the way I am going to say this.  This is some of the best leadership I have seen from you if not the best leadership in going on three years of working together.  I am appreciative of you being the type of leader today will bring up something that is unpopular.  You will certainly get beat up over this.  But that is what good leaders do.  They do not always just say, yes.  It is easy to say yes.  It is easy to $0.6 million, yes.  $611,000, Yes.  It is easy to do that.  It is not easy to say, no and to question where we are in this process.  Some say it is too late in the game, the budget has already been there.  For four of us and others that talk about it, it is not too late until it is too late.  You can create a budget and it still change your mind and make decisions.  And we did that with the cultural counsel.  We can do that with this as well.  So I publicly applaud you chairman for having the courage to talk about this.  And Mr. Robbins, you are spot on.  That is exactly what we need to do.  We need to go line item by line item because how can you disagree with Mr. Johansson when he talks about those that are disabled in our community.  Those are the ones that need the Morse -- most help and support.  You have to take care of your kids, the elderly and disabled.  This should come out of the pockets of individuals instead of government taken the money in the form of taxes and didn't deciding who the winners and losers are.  I am looking at the swimming contracts and why are they getting $20,950 in our journey and 17,000 and that is a question that I had.  Troy and Heather Kent, we paid for why it Kent to get swim lessons because we could.  We paid for our grandchildren Hudson and Truitt to get infant swim lessons because we could.  Our daughter is going to have a baby in the next three weeks.  We are told that we are paying for Holly to have her swim lessons as well.  Because we can but you bring up a really good topic chairman because at the end of the day, we all one nonpartisan elections.  We represents everybody in our district.  We all have party affiliation as well.  We talked about being fiscal conservatives and it didn't feel good for me when my city took my tax dollars and spent it in another city for a piece of art that I am shaking my head going, why did my tax dollars pay for this?  When I am sending my personal money to this so that can be tied in to this as well.  I think Mr. Robins the question may be how much fat do we turn from this pig?  Do we say, none?  Is there a certain amount and it is a healthy exercise we need to desperately go through.  Chairman, it was not lost on me that you were talking about pulling funding right now.  But I want to remind you, it is not too late.  People are like, you can't do that.  We can do that.  I am not going to say it is not going to have a right now.  After hearing from others, it certainly could.  I am appreciative of the way this conversation is going.  As I like there is movement to make some changes.  Because it is general fund money and there is good that comes from it.  But I think we need to dial into that conversation a little more.  At the end of the day, we want great things for our community.  I know I do and I want the biggest and best thing for the taxpayer dollar.  It is not lost on me that $2.6 million that is not my money to just give.  Thank you chairman.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: Councilman Santiago?  


>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I just wanted to address, I do not see this as taking money from others and giving it to others.  Because at the end of the day we receive money from the general public to provide all kinds of services.  When I look at this in the commentary said and I agree children's and families.  This is pretty much all this is, is children's and families.  I do not see this as a statute.  Putting a statute in another city is not going to save a kids life.  Because they probably could have had 100 swim lessons for what they paid for the statue.  I agree with you there.  This particular program is different.  This is life safety quality-of-life issues for children's and seniors.  We are a civil society.  I see this almost core essentials.  Because I to pay for my grandson swim lessons.  But not everybody can do what you and I can do.  And I know you know that.  That is why we are up here to make those decisions.  How do we find the right balance?  That is all we do up here is give money every year and disseminate it amongst programs.  It can be infrastructure and things that we all feel are important for our society in Volusia County.  I like to think that the Boys and Girls Club keeping the kids and out of school programs for families that cannot afford to do paid afterschool programs.  All of this is income based.  Seniors that are by themselves and cannot have their own meal.  I know I sound like I am preaching but these are quality-of-life core issues that I will be able to support of the individual council member.  I see that is a priority of ours.  I'm all for finding ways to shift to getting private more involved.  I know chair, I agree and I recognize and I think you said in different next year.  I recognize that.  I am not prepared to make that statement.  I want to fund this and I think as we get into our strategy sessions, I think we are going to start those in January or February.  Maybe start talking about how do we get private sector to get more involved?  We have a lot of philanthropists in the community maybe they can help us here.  Mr. chair, I move that we approve the program as presented by staff.
>>  Second.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: Councilman Santiago moved the program and Vice Chair Reinhart makes the second.  Shayk Johansson?  


>> JAKE JOHANSSON: I want to talk about something that we use a lot, I even use it.  There are people that are starving or hungry and working payday to payday and can't afford a home work can't afford much beyond living payday to payday.  And how we have to lower their taxes.  We have talked a little bit about funding these nonprofits and I see these nonprofits as some contractors.  I am giving them money to do something that we do not want to do ourselves.  They are very capable of doing.  They are self funded.  We are giving them money to do stuff above and beyond what they have the capacity to do themselves.  Thank you very much to those people.  So we cut this funding and the folks that pay taxes that are middle income, they get a five dollar cut in their fees.  The people that make a lot of money get a little bit if anything.  But the people living payday to payday are not paying that much taxes anyhow.  They are not getting that much of a break.  But what they are not getting is boys and girls club development services and they have to start paying for that because we are not paying for it anymore.  Troy and Heather Kent are paying for their kids swim lessons.  Bob and Jessica in the trenches can't do swim lessons because they can't afford the $45 or $65 that it cost because we are putting $2.6 million in the water education safety program.  With all of these contracts and folks that were supposedly going to give all these money to there's only two of them that I have heard before.  Why is Easter Seals getting more money than the YMCA?  They probably have the capacity to do it and that is why.  I imagine we would give them more if they had the capacity to do it.  Bottom line for me is that we have a lot of water safety education out there.  It is spread around to places where everybody can get to.  The people that are complaining that we care about most are the people who get to use these programs.  Shame on us if we are trying to get something for free.  This is for those people, the people in need and the people that are living payday to payday.  And the people that work two jobs and doing everything they can to keep their family together.  They need the youth development services of Boys and Girls Club you the people that are on fixed incomes that are 65, 75, 85 years old and need to counsel for aging for lunch and dinner.  These are the people that we are helping in my opinion.  
>>  47% of the county and we have a large percentage if you compare our county to others.  It is the elevated elderly population.  We have 30% and other counties have about 15 – 16% elderly population.  If you look at the demographics one of the things, it is a request for proposals council member Kent.  The organization will look at the capacity and submit a proposal based on that.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: Councilman Robins?  Jay, you were done?  


>> DANNY ROBINS: Thank you, chair.  I will try to close it up on my end.  Car repair, roof and some of these other safety nets should we be doing this out of the general fund when there's a million other programs?  We can't be everything to everybody.  We need to narrow that down.  Government is not the answer to all of our problems.  I think chairman, you are on the right track.  Try as well and David.  Chairman would you consider one of us can make the motion or I could probably make the motion and have staff -- I'm sorry.  A separate motion or proposal between now and when this comes back up and hopefully wait beforehand before they get into their budgets and stuff.  Maybe get us a menu where we can break this down to see what the core is.  We can come together and pick them off of the menu or a phased approach if that is what counsel desires.  But I think there are other ways to do this.  I need to know more about some of these services because some of them do have value.  If not, we would be in jail in some cases.  It is costing a lot more money tying up our deputies and emergency services.  We can look at it.  We can have staff come back and say or ask them to bring back all the nonprofits and let's see where they are all at.  You get a big list and then go through them.  That is only way to really do it.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: Councilman Dempsey?  


>> DON DEMPSEY: I agree with you, Danny.  I want to do a deep dive into these programs.  I see some of them like you mentioned earlier transportation 47,000, summer camp for $58,000.  For the number of people served and the cost averages to 584 per person.  I want to approve it this time but I do want to examine it in the near future for what we talked about.  Thanks.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: County manager?  
>>  Thank you for the input.  To remind everybody yes, that is the upcoming workshop in January.  If you recall was to dive into what the core needs are so we can start off in that direction.  We will go off on things like this and it will come back to you once we know what the further direction is.  Then we will through the year built the budget around those items.  Again this is obviously is going to be something that will be talked about.  Once we get the direction in January, you will see it through the budget process of where we go.  I am sure this will be the only item.  Because if you look at the general fund and just off the top of my head $300 million range and it could be 400 at this point.  At the end of the day that is where you have the most control.  We will be looking at where we go for the following season.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: Thank you. I have already had time to speak.  I am going to call for the vote.  I am going to say, I really appreciate the conversation from everyone of you.  I know you did not expect this.  You might not have appreciated it but I think what we have laid out is that, it is almost impossible for government to ever end a program and cut spending.  It is really, really hard.  I can look into the crowd and I see the faces, they think I am crazy and heartless and a scumbag.  I am sorry about that.  Jake, 47% of our population is the working poor.  I am not looking to save someone five dollars.  All of those people pay property taxes in their rent.  All of them are faced with economic hardships and they do not know how they are going to make it.  I am also thinking about the people that make $200,000 a year that own a beautiful home.  The city taxes just went up and we had a tiny tax raise and that is not what I am here for the public.  We had our own tax increase.  We have to start working on it.  There is not a single program in here and I am looking at the friend from the Boys and Girls Club.  I do not want to see that go away.  They add value and there's no doubt about that.  But I am not willing and I think it is immoral for us to take from other families and give it as a donation.  I think they can stand on their own and will whenever they are asked to.  With that Carissa would you call the roll please?  There's a motion is to approve as presented.  
>>  You have public participation.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: I'm sorry, we do.  Tammy Cummings and then Chelsea?  
>>  I don't speak publicly very often.  This is -- 


>> CHAIR BROWER: Can you pull the microphone?  There you go.  Take your time.  You are fine.  
>>  This is my first year in being making change.  I do not speak publicly or do a lot of that stuff.  I am usually in the background.  But we were able to provide funding for 23 kids with 5000 or little bit more.  We had about $2700 given to us by the public and that is with going out and putting change boxes and restaurants.  Going to bicycle week putting up change boxes.  Those 23 kids could have cost the county over $23 million.  Because you have fire engines, hospitals, search, rescue dogs and all that adds up to about that much money.  I donate all of my time and my time is worth $75 an hour because I am an accountant.  But I am here today all my dollar helping children get money.  It is not just about the swimming lessons, it is about the community.  I have a person that we have to stay in the water from about 8:00 AM until about 6:00 PM at night teaching those children how to not drown.  Drowning prevention, you teach them how to get in the water if they fall in.  I'm sure you watched your granddaughter or grandson fall into the pool and being able to swim out.  My granddaughters for years old we do not pay for her stuff her parents did.  They did not get a scholarship.  I have seen 23 kids not drown and there's more that come from all of the other venues and nonprofits that we try to make up.  I do not want to ask for $10 million.  I grew up very poor.  We just want enough to save kids.  And to save adults and families from having to go to the hospital and see their kid connected to tubes.  And not being able to get out a car and watch her neural diversion child fall to the lake.  In Volusia County, Seminole County and all the counties in Florida, we just want to say, not cost the county money to do it.  We work really hard.  We are just a small piece of the pie.  That is all we are trying to do is save one child at a time with a small piece of pie.  Some classes cost $700.  We paid $250 to a scholarship for a parent to save their child.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: Thank you.  You are a great public speaker.  
>>  Thank you.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: Chelsea?  Followed by Roy Young.  
>>  Good afternoon councilmembers.  My name is Chelsea and I have lived in Volusia County for nine years.  I am here today as a resident who cares deeply about how her local dollars are being spent.  Especially when it comes to families in crisis.  I recently became aware of the funding decisions made through the children and families advisory board.  I have concerns about the way the money is being allocated.  Particularly how much is going towards a ministration and case management rather than direct services like food, rent or utility support.  These are basic needs and at a time when so many families are struggling, I think we note that back over to the public to make sure the majority of the funds go where they are urgently needed.  It is also unclear to me how organizations were selected and whether those with the strongest history of serving people here in Volusia County were prioritized.  It is not to discredit any organization but I believe there should be a clear and fair process to put service history and outcomes first.  As a citizen, I am simply asking for transparency, accountability and a commitment to making sure public funds are being used in the most effective way for our local families.  Thank you for listening and thank you for your service to this community.


>> CHAIR BROWER: Thank you for your comments.  Roy Young?  
>>  Good afternoon.  After all the morning is gone.  Roy Young, I am the executive director at Halifax River ministries.  We receive a very small portion of the money to be able to offer homelessness convention.  That means helping once a year pay utilities, rent, case management services.  You make very good use of the money.  $0.94 Of every dollar goes directly to services.  Not the case management, not to transportation, not to administer the staff.  I was specifically brought on as executive director to change exactly what you're talking about.  To change our dependency on grant dollars.  Right now we are at 65% grant dollars as opposed to private funding.  My goal over the next two years is to make at least 50/50.  With that said we are a faith-based organization.  We rely heavily on other faith-based organizations.  I've seen many of you in the community at one time or another in your organizations helped to fund some of our programs.  I believe the model you are proposing will be successful.  I just asked for your approval today and for some time to be able to ramp up rapidly.  Each year we have received less funds.  Each year we raise more money to private donations.  Last Sunday for example, you know the large trucks with the refrigeration's on the top, we filled two of those going to five different churches and local Realty office.  Everyone was very kind.  That was for increased services not for maintaining services where they are.  My fear is that over this next year without food subsidies, we're going to see a lot more homeless people.  Therefore much more expense in and around getting those people back into housing.  Most of the people in our shelter our families, veterans, at risk youth that have aged out of foster care people that need our help.  They misstep, did not plan properly, their car broke down.  You can tell yourself exactly what you want to hear.  But the fact of the matter is we have three families right now in our one shelter.  They get up every month -- morning and they can't make ends meet.  All the luxury housing that is going up, what it is because $1800 for a two bedroom?  After you get evicted nobody is going to rent to you.  These subsidies allow us to keep agreements with landlords to keep people in their houses so they are not on the street.  Wet -- whether it because 15 or $20 and to get them a break.  Thank you.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: John Nicholson?  
>>  There is a phrase John Nicholson's.  There's a phrase penny wise and there's another phrase been there done that.  Like you're going through now and let's say Daytona Beach did 20 years ago.  Seven years in a row rollback.  We get a new city manager we get 27% tax increase.  You heard me talk about it before.  That is what I am worried about.  We went through all of our budgets.  It took three days.  These magazines, it is $17 for magazines and we will cut that out.  Little painting things that you didn't realize added up.  What I think you're doing, you're trying to look through it and try to cut the fat.  But you are not cutting the fact, you're cutting what I believe you're going to eventually find out it is your core.  You have to determine what is your core responsibilities.  Right now you're cutting before you know what you're cutting.  What is your core?  What are your core responsibilities?  I look back at history what has happened in the past.  The Roman empire failed.  I'm Roman Catholic so at the time Catholics controlled Italy.  What happens when there is no more government?  Who runs the water?  Who runs the aqueducts?  Who runs the streets and who does what?  The church stepped in and never stepped out.  You are talking about want to get on the government gold, it is hard to get off?  That is what happened.  I have seen this history in the city of Daytona Beach and my church.  You are between a rock and a hard place.  You have to find out I believe what your core responsibilities are.  You can ask Matt, we talked about what happens with first Shelter?  How much is the county saving when they put up the $400,000 per year from repetition of people going to the county jail over and over again.  It is $111 or so when they show up needlessly.  It is cost $27 when you go.  It is a saving so to me you have to know where you're coming from first, what you have to have.  Yet the roof over the head, you have that food and those things are basics.  When you talk about charities one of the things a nonprofit because government was not doing it.  It doesn't mean it wasn't needed.  The government did not care to do it or did not have the funds to do it.  These things are important.  I think you need to judge what is important before you start cutting.  Thank you.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: Thank you very much everyone for your comments.  It is important to hear from the public.  Carissa, would you call the roll item 11.  The motion is that we approve the children and family advisory board as presented.  I believe it was with no adjustment.  
>>  Mr. Johansson.
>>  Yes.
>>  Mr. Kent.
>>  Yes.
>>  Mr. Robins?  
>>  Yes.
>>  Mr. Santiago.
>>  Yes.
>>  Mr. Dempsey.
>>  Yes.
>>  Chair Brower.
>>  No.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: The motion carried 6/1.  It is 12:13 PM.  Why don't we take a lunch break until 1:00 PM.  




















>> CHAIR BROWER: Okay, we will resume the November 4 Volusia County County Council meeting.  It is 1:02 PM and we are item 12.  Direct is going to tell about the first year's result of Park Volusia.
>>  Thank you very much Mr. chair.  As you stated part of the implementation of the Park Volusia program is that we will come back to you all with a summary and an update of how the program went in the first year.  Towards the end we are going to ask for direction moving forward.  The first slide is a summary of all the infrastructure that was implemented and everything that we put in during this limitation process.  Our beach lots with 72% of the off beach recognition cameras.  They are also managing the entrance to the inlet parks.  The main thing I want to stress and I do not want to bury the lead.  Part of this was thinking we would get an increase in revenue associated with our beach program.  At no we have had discussion during the budget project of what the numbers were and how we may have overestimated a little bit.  I will say, we have good news compared to what we talked about during the budget.  We are looking at 1.4 million of dollars increase in revenue after all of the cost versus the previous fiscal year.  It represents about a 67% increase in that revenue.  This is gross revenue.  It is not net revenue, it is before we take out the cost of the program.  You see the on beach revenue and the on beach revenue.  We are looking at just over $10 million in total revenue.  This is a chart that shows what we are seeing in terms of on beach and offbeat throughout the previous fiscal year in terms of on beach and off beach.  This is a comparison of the gross revenue compared to the previous fiscal year where we are charging on beach tolls.  So let's talk about the off beach parking program.  This is the timeline as far as when we awarded the contract all away through the LPR.  We have the smaller lots individual enforcement officers that go through and check with cameras.  The daily pass apartment one of the off beach if you are not a resident is $20.  The residents and those with handicap parking is complementary.  I will say one of the great things about this program is the amount of data that we are able to collect but not with just people on the beach but using the parking lots.  The parking lot data is something we did not have before.  A lot of the estimates was based on historical trends throughout the state as well as news monitors -- new Smyrna.  To be clear that is folks that come in and stay long enough to parking pay for parking or issue citations.  Sometimes a drop of cooler and are gone in 10 minutes.  There's a grace period where people can pull in and not parking not have to pay.  Mainly because we do not want or want to make sure there is war they are using the parking lot.  They have the folks that paid a $20 an arrest and the overwhelming majority residents passes and obviously we have a new visitor passes as well.  We are issuing citations for folks who do not pay when they utilized the lot.  The pie chart shows compliant rate.  We get in 95% compliance.  In other words they pull in and do not pay.  We issued 44,000 valid citations.  Looking at those citations out of the 44,000 around 9000 appealed.  About half of those the appeals were upheld and in other words the person was refunded.  We had another stack that would like to point out.  There were 2400 folks that got a citation that were residents.  There citations were waived.  All in all we had about 5000 that we call in valid citations.  There are citations that were upheld to the appeals process or we noticed an issue with an officer so there was an issue there.  In valid citations can be a number of things.  Someone who paid that day and enter their own license plate incorrectly.  They were to show a valid payment and their license plate digit was off.  Some the LPR picked up a seven instead of a one or something like that.  The point I am trying to make out of the 5000 citations that were issued whether it was invalid.  It is a pretty low number.  It is not perfect and we are hoping to improve that as we go forward.  I think people are getting the hang of parking in those lots.  This is a chart that shows citation issued versus the revenues collected.  I will note that the industry standard in terms of number citations are covering those funds is about 70%.  70% of the citations issues to get the folks to pay the fee and the fine.  Right now we are at 50% and we are looking to increase that percentage and get it closer to 70%.  This is the amount of revenue we have seen versus the amount of outstanding revenue on a month-to-month basis.  He peeked around March and April.  Even though off beach parking went into effect in January when people started going to the beach, it is a right around spring and that is when we saw the citations speak.  As the summer months went on the compliance rate went up.  That is off beach.  On beach, we had on beach access toll program.  We are looking to move it towards automation and we have all of the ramps open all of the time.  We are still going to have larger ramps hybrid approach where you can get on the express way through the automation or if you want to pay through a toll taker.  We are looking at the end of December to have the ramps fully automated except for the ones that are currently in rebuilt status due to hurricane repairs.  On beach access as far the paying structure, as you recall we increase the daily pass to $30 and 50 there visitor to $50.  For on beach access and handicap get complementary.  40% of the folks accessing the beach our residents.  33% are daily beach past user and they are paying $30.  We are visitor permits and percentages associated with the handicap lockers.  One interesting note is we have about $70,000 and change less total entries onto the beach.  I would attribute that to a couple of factors.  One, we had hurricanes and two – three months was almost inaccessible.  We are seeing a general downturn in tourism in the state.  Also with the situation with the tides and the beach itself, we are seeing less time for driving.  That speaks to the total entries.  But when you look at some other data total resident permits.  In the year previous when it was $25 annual resident permit we had about 46,000 people that paid $25.  This year we had 137,000 residents sign up.  Out of the 137,000 88,000 use their vehicle that they started to get on the beach.  Almost double the amount of resident accessing the beach.  The difference in that number is about 49,000.  Out of the 49,000 7000 folks use the resident pass to access off beach that left about 40,002 people assigned vehicles that did not access the beach of the parking lot.  It was down 3000 and change because we increase the cost associated with that.  The resident -- [INDISCERNIBLE].  The daily beach passes was down about 40,000 but because we increase the fee from 20 – 30 overall revenue for that particular pass was up as well.  On beach revenue fiscal year 25 versus 24, you can see the green.  Almost all of the month it was higher or slightly higher.  Total on beach revenue in 24 was about $300,000 less than it was in 25.  Keep in mind that is 70,000 less folks getting on the beach.  One interesting trend we are seeing and this is something I've heard since I have been in public works director and work closely with the coastal staff.  A lot of the residents one of the biggest complaints is the beaches are crowded.  It is crowded with day trips from Orlando and other places.  The trend we are seeing with this data is your getting more residents on the beach and it is slightly less crowded.  We are making more money at the same time.  Yes, sir.  That sums up the program in the first year with some of the data we are seeing in some of the important things I wanted to address.  We do need some direction from counsel.  If you recall when this program wasn't amended there was a sunset on the $25 annual resident pass.  In other words of this counsel doesn't take action, will revert back to costing $25 for residents for an annual pass.  We need to know from counsel if you want to keep that at zero or you want to revert back to $25.  If you do want it to stay at zero, we will come back in a meeting here shortly to provide an alteration of beach coat to keep it at zero.  The citation dismissal for residents to register immediately after their violation and this is something that peeked early and then dwindled down.  Someone might change their license plate or get a new car.  Is this something the council wants us to continue for resident?  I thought it was free so I did I get a citation?  Your car is not registered with us.  If you register it right away we can waive the citation.  I don't know if you want us to continue that are not?  One thing that came up that we did not really think about and it happens on these things is folks are issued citation and requested a payment plan.  That is not something that was authorized initially.  We do not a problem with it if it is another way to collect the citation so we are okay with that.  I added this item because it was noted in the audit from the ocean center day pass.  We do take cash.  Off beach is cashless.  On beach we do take cash.  As we move towards full automation, we are going to have very few ramps that have or you will be able to pay with cash.  From a staff perspective, we recommend keeping that area where you get the Taurus that are in town.  If they have $30 in cash we do not want to push them away.  We want to make sure we are preventing fraud.  Lastly, resident so how do you want to move forward?  Do you want folks to log in once a year and review their information and make sure they are still residents?  If you get somebody that moves out of the county, do we want to verify there is still a County resident?  We are working on a database with the state.  We are having issues with that and hopefully get it settled at some point.  Right now we still require folks to supply documents.  They log in once a year and maybe every three years they re-upload their documents completely up to the Council.  I know there's interest to make it seamless for our residents to make sure they can access the beach.  With that, I will turn it over to all with questions you may have.  Or any direction you want to provide.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: Thank you very much.  Questions?  David Santiago?  


>> DAVID SANTIAGO: If we registered the dogs can we get more revenue?  
>>  I think it was discussed at length.  


>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I press a button on the renewals because I know the only thing doesn't work out.  The two – three years is a solution for people because we do not want them to register every year.  
>>  One thing we did notice and I forgot to mention this and I apologizes with the amount of increase amount of residents going in and registering, it prompted them to see if they wanted the annual inlet park pass because you have to pay for that.  We saw an increase in the amount of people that signed up for that.  Most of those folks would have to come in there once a year and we knew that if they chose.  They are coming back to look at their account within a year.  


>> DAVID SANTIAGO: You need direction for a couple of items?  
>>  Yes.  


>> TROY KENT: I do not have any questions I just have comments.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: Does anyone have a question for Matt?  


>> TROY KENT: The beach reimbursement could that event impacts the attendance, that project?  
>>  No.  We were still letting people access the beach.  


>> TROY KENT: I didn't know if they turned anybody off from it.  
>>  It may be occasional one-off.  They worked hard to ensure we kept access.  


>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I went to use my pass and I cannot get on the beach.  


>>  The process for projections and we did that before we talked about what we projected getting so much money and we didn't.  I will admit -- 
>>  Revenue is revenue.  I kind of planned budgets in the past based on projections and projections are important.  What process did we use in order to make those projections?  
>>  We had a consultant and I will admit parking is not something.  We had a consultant that we brought in to look at it.  We had good data.  New Smyrna is an outlier in terms of it is a popular part of the beach.  We try to be conservative when we looked at those numbers.  To your point we overestimated with the off beach revenue is.  Now before we have actual data and to your point as far as revenue is revenue.  It is still an increase.  
>>  That is good.  Some of the ramps will have cash and LPR's?  Will there be signage to that effect?  Congestion as you're pulling up to a ramp and realize all I have is cash when it is LPR.  
>>  There will be a sign that says it is automated.  The arm opens and inlet you on.  You can pay with cash or credit card.
>>  At specific locations.  Is there going to be signage available at the locations?  
>>  Yes.  
>>  They know they can turn around without causing congestion on a 1A.  
>>  As long as your annual pass you can put up to the ramp.  We don't folks -- 
>>  Without backing up traffic on the busy beach days and I do not want to see that as a result of them not knowing which ramp to go to.  
>>  We are sensitive to those ramps getting backed up.  
>>  All right, thank you.  I appreciate it.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: Jake, do you have a question?  


>> JAKE JOHANSSON: I know when we first started this we talked about the state requirement and the buydown of the residential.  Does the revenue that we make on this program solve that problem?  Are we still beiing down our residential cost?  
>>  Because the way the beach code is structured it has to be uniformed.  From a County perspective, yes.  It is still the beach past, correct.


>> JAKE JOHANSSON: Where does that money come from?  General fund?  We are having these conversations about spending general fund money and taxpayer money to give to people and here's another item that we somewhat use general fund money to pay down for people to have a quality of life issue.  Maybe not our core responsibility issue.  I want to clearly understand if we are going to stand by that kind of policy that were talking about that we are clear here.  
>>  With the uniformity requirements of the charter, we are required to contribute from the general fund the same amount that would have been contributed if we had charged them.  The annual pass is $150 for on beach.  So there is 88,000 somewhere around there residents that actually use the beach.  We are required to contribute 13 million.  The subsidy is $17 million.  We are under that requirement and did not trigger contribution.  The beach is required subsidy.  


>> JAKE JOHANSSON: There taxpayer that do not use the beach and they are paying.  Those of the ones that use the beach can use the beach and it used to be for a small cost and now it is free.  
>>  Just wrote quick if you were to revert back to what the previous $25 for annual pass, I would imagine you would get 88,000 folks are 137,000 folks sign up.  If you went by the previous year number you're looking at a revenue of $11.2 million.  


>> JAKE JOHANSSON: So it is cost-effective to do it this way even though we are still charging?  The only way to go back to what I am talking about is to charge people $150 basically to get on the beach.  So we do not have to buy out of general fund?  Okay thank you.  
>>  Just a couple questions.  I wanted to take issue with what he just said and Ryan can straighten me out if I am wrong.  I think it is important point every time I hear free beach it makes me cringe.  The beach has never been free.  We have always paid for it.  And property tax it -- [INDISCERNIBLE].  Everybody the public is paying for the beach, it is just through property taxes as well.  Is that true or false?  
>>  At current the beach require $17 million in general fund contributions.  
>>  This is why we need you because you have real figures.  
>>  That includes beach safety, coastal, Marine science Center, and turtles.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: You said tourism was down is it possible because the tourist have moved here?  [LAUGHTER] 
>>  I cannot speak to that.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: You said $10 million total revenue and will make sure I heard this right.  $1.6 Million we That means $8.4 million?  
>>  That was $1.4 million additional.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: What are the expenses?  
>>  It is about 50% of the program.  It was expensive the first year because we put all of the technology.


>> CHAIR BROWER: Will that go down now?  
>>  We are working on that as we see automation.  We anticipate those costs coming down.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: That is all the questions.  We will go back to some debate.  Then we will answer your five questions.  Councilman Kent?  


>> TROY KENT: Counsel thank you for allowing us to do this.  And try this out.  I mean that deep down in my heart.  I am appreciative that you have faith to give it a try.  It is interesting that you mentioned that one of the things you heard from residents that certain times of the year in certain parts of the beach were too crowded and they did not like that.  And now 130,000 resident passes issues but over 80,000 residents accessing the beach with those passes.  So double the amount almost from the year prior of local residents.  That rings true with me because out of spite, I would not buy a pass for years because I felt like I am already paying for that beach and my property taxes.  Why are you hitting me again with it?  I think of a lot of residents felt that way.  I will remind the Council those individuals come to the beach beach side but those residents are already paid for the beach and their property taxes but now that they are there they are trying a new restaurant, buying a float at a shop over there.  They are going and doing other things.  I found it interesting that the park passes there was a big uptick in those as well.  I think that is just, John Nicholson says it and I agree with him on this.  We have been disagreeing lately but that is okay.  The beach is the drawl in Volusia County.  There are a lot of things but the beach is incredible and it certainly is a draw.  Implementing a new project is in Izzy.  Our staff work to the Kings we have but you have questions before us and I just want to tell the Council where I am with it.  Resident pricing beyond January 2026, I would like to keep it exactly where it is.  Which is no extra charge.  Because we are already charging them and they are paying for it in their property taxes.  


>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Make that in the motion.  


>> TROY KENT: I will go through it all and I will make it one big motion.  It is fantastic that we brought in more revenue.  He said it was at 67% increase?  As far as citations dismissal for residents to register that the violation that is being a good neighbor and we need to continue to do that.  Authorized payment plans on citation, yes I do not have a problem with that.  It helps us collect the money that is owed.  Cashless daily pass sales, I also agree with staff where we have the hybrid that we should accept the cash.  I think there are processes in place that separate from the ocean center.  It is something that we can check with our checks and balances so I am okay with that.  Resident renewals I agree with David.  It has to be every two – three years.  Every year is cumbersome and problematic.  I wanted to be -- I want them to access their beach as easy as possible.  I will put that into a motion that resident pricing beyond January 2026 days at no extra charge which is zero currently.  Citation dismissal for residents who register at the violation, yes.  
>>  Would you be okay if we offer like if someone gets a citation and say they are going to register?  We allow them one shot at it.  


>> TROY KENT: I think one shot is okay.  Allowing cash to be taken at the hybrid locations and resident renewals do you feel comfortable with two or three years?  I see three popping up.  Everybody is okay with that?  
>>  Understand how it works, we would require folks to upload their resident documentation every three years.  How would we remind them?  Send them an email and let them know a month or so out?  Everybody will have a different day but we can or I can be happy to work to make sure everybody knows.  Beach season is coming up and make sure you are all registered and everything like that.  Get the word out like we have pictures of the spider.  I gave credit by the way to Michael's group for the picture of the spider.  That was in your group.  I take back all of the praise from Michael Ryan and I give it all back to you.  Look at him, he is upset.  
>>  Is the renewal automatic to the program?  
>>  Yes.  If you register as a resident and we set it at three years, from the original date of registration they will get a prompt saying need to log back in and renewals.  
>>  30 days or 60 days ahead of time?  
>>  Whatever.  
>>  I think the more lead time the better.  We have a elderly population in Volusia County.  I think a 60 day and at 30 days I think is appropriate.  
>>  Mr. chair for everyone who might be listening or as we communicate if you get a new license plate because I think every so many years you are required to get a new license plate.  You have to reregister the new license plate because we go by the tag number.  That is also something we are communicating to people.  
>>  Michael Ryan, did you pick up on that?  That is a big piece of the communication that is out there outfront so people know.  That is going to be a problem.  I have a new license plate and you hit me with the ticket.  We want to be kind with our residents.  
>>  We want them to utilize the program.  We saw the citation in March and April we can remind residents to check your parks Volusia.  
>>  Chairman anything you need from my motion?  
>>  We did we get the difference between renewal and reverification?  
>>  We did so let's talk about that.  
>>  Resident renewal and you worded your motion every three years.  Until the third year they have to log back in and upload the documentation.  
>>  Are we still going to have one or two locations of people to go in person?  
>>  We still have two locations.  
>>  You just built a motion that says keep it the same yes, yes, years for three years?  
>>  We are not doing cashless.  We are allowing cashless.  
>>  This has to come back for a super majority vote?  
>>  Because you change on beach access.  That will be when you come back with the ordinance.
>>  When is this coming back?  
>>  I can do it December or January.  
>>  The sooner the better.  


>> DAVID SANTIAGO: He needs Westside representative votes?  
>>  Tell me what you guys need over there.  [LAUGHTER] 
>>  We have a motion to keep resident pricing beyond January 2026 the same.  Citation dismissal for residents who registered after violation, yes.  Authorized payment plans, yes.  Cashless daily pass sales on beach and inlet parks allowing cash.  Resident renewals every three years.  Any other questions on that?  All in favor of the motion and the second was Pike Councilman Santiago.  I should have repeated that.  All in favor say aye.
>>  Aye.
>>  Any opposed?  Park Volusia is renewed.  
>>  Thank you very much.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: That takes us to, we did not have public for that?  Item 13 discussion of placement of charter amendment question regarding elements of a rural gross boundary.  Are you going to carry this one?  
>>  For a portion of it, yes.  


>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Can I chime in?  I was wondering with the councils if we can consider an approach to have a meeting topic to discuss potential charter amendments instead of piece mailing them.  Maybe we have a dedicated topic saying these workshops to talk about what County Counsel related.  I am not opposed to discussing this one.  I think we should have one meeting to talk about any ideas of charter review including this one.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: If it comes to the Council and not to the committee?  


>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Correct.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: That is a good idea.  I will tell you why I wanted to discuss it.  It is a little fuzzy because of Senate Bill 180.  I wanted to get the attorneys to tell us what parts we could do and what parts we couldn't.  The most important thing to me because I think we can do it is to work some changes on the annexation process in Florida.  That is not invented by Senate Bill 180.  Yes it is or yes, I am correct?  
>>  The voluntary annexation is not affected 180.  
>>  If you want me to explain your legal options at this point in time taking into account the statutory restrictions, we can go for that.  The harder question is policy related.  There is a lot of options and consideration for County Counsel to consider if you want to put a charter regarding voluntary annexations.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: I think Jake has a question.  I would like to hear than if you would weave into that just so that we know is it possible to do a charter amendment that is retroactive that will produce a rural boundary agreement?  180 prohibits it now so two years before it has passed.  
>>  Has a large effect that permit you from proposing.  It is not just an acting or adopting.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: So we need to amend Senate Bill 180?  


>> JAKE JOHANSSON: I think the rural is different from the charter.  We agreed to kick the can a few months ago and we are actually past that date.  We all agree to bring it up with enough time.  I think this one is what we are talking about today and we can do the rest and the others at another time.  
>>  I will do the initial presentation and I will stop at the legal questions of, do you want to proceed?  And then you can open up your options after that.  There are a lot of ways that this counsel can handle it.  We will start with the -- this is the request of the chair and item dealing with various names.  We are going to call it the rural lands analysis.  -- Rural lands allow gnosis.  Because some of the statutes were counsel has two options not proceed and leave everything alone.  Are you can proceed as a counsel propose charter amendment by it 2/3 vote of the entire counsel to put on the 2026 ballot an exclusive voluntary annexation.  That would request input.  What area to apply it to so there is a lot of moving parts and that second discussion.  Fundamental question what is a rural boundary?  That has been lobbied around and it is two things.  What is called the exclusive annexation?  It says that a charter County through its charter can set the exclusive method of an owner driven annexation.  The second part is the county charter under Florida Constitution.  A charter counties can actually say in the event of a conflict so long as it is not slick state law that the charter get to decide which ordinance applies the county ordinance of the city ordinance.  This is not unknown to Volusia County.  We put on urban growth in 2006 and what he did was try to use the second power the charter County supremacy and said okay the county conference would prevail over conflicting municipal plan for a period of 10 years.  That referendum failed in the 2006 votes.  After that we entered into interlocal boundary agreements.  Going back to the method of voluntary annexation and that is the power that is granted to counties charters by annexation statutes.  It only applies to owner a property owner and to annex into municipality.  Normally in that event the county has no role in analyzing and approving the annexation request.  We are limited to receiving notice and filing an objection or appeal.  If the and annex fail statutory requirement if it is contiguous or result in conclave the county would object an appeal if you needed to.  The statute does allow the county to take the statutory process and say it doesn't apply in the county.  The county through the charter will create another process and all voluntary annexation need to follow that particular process.  This does not apply to involuntary annexation.  Those annexations or by referendum.  A municipality can annex in two ways.  They can have a property owner request for an annexation or the municipality can start the annexation process itself and start a referendum to annex a large area.  We call that voluntary annexation.  Involuntary annexation requires a vote.  This charter process does not apply to the involuntary annexation.  It applies to the property.  


>> DAVID SANTIAGO: The involuntary and -- annexation use referendum in large property how is that defined?  
>>  That is usually an essay large is usually one a municipality want to use the involuntary annexation process.  They want to annex large portions.  Because it is very expensive to do so.  You have to set up essentially a ballot.  It behooves the city to identify which area they would like to annex in large manners rather than lot by lot.  


>> DAVID SANTIAGO: If a county or city wanted to annex 1 acre parcel in that scenario would that require a referendum?  
>>  Yes.  


>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Regardless of the size of the parcel?  
>>  Yes.  
>>  Here's some examples of procedures that other charter counties have done for their exclusive method.  The fundamental is the county is the final approval of the voluntary annexation.  You can create exceptions so for example areas within utility service areas.  Areas with I SBA.  You can have voting for approval, 2/3 vote simple majority.  You can have notice criteria to the County and surrounding property owners that are greater and what is required by statute.  They can have an appeal criteria and other considerations such as infrastructure compatibility.  There is a lot you can build into your exclusive that is more than X statutory if it is compact.  There's more that is available to the charter County.  This is the other half of rural boundary provision.  This allows the charter to dictate which ordinance is supreme when there is a conflict between the county ordinance and municipal ordinance.  Our charter has a default.  Section 35 says it was provided and municipal ordinances the one that prevails over the county ordinance.  There are two revelatory jurisdiction over the beach.  There's minimum environmental standards.  Those are the ones where we set under chapter 50 the minimum standards that every municipality has to adhere to and have to craft an ordinance that meets our environmental minimum standards.  Otherwise the municipal ordinance prevails in county ordinance.  This has been used by charter counties that want to do boundaries.  So a copper has a plan prevails and is not changed by municipality.  Even after annexation you need the county to change the county comprehensive plan even after annexation.  That is one of the powers that we are granted to charter counties.  These are examples of what I said.  You can impose to change a comprehensive plan.  It requires super majority.  You can do like Warren County and exclude certain areas.  For example utility service areas, targeted growth areas and other areas would be in the rural area.  Now let's talk about some of the statutory limitations.  The reason why this item is before this counsel and not before the charter review commission is that there was a change in Florida statute.  It prohibits a citizen led charter amendment by petition or by citizen members.  They cannot put something on the ballot directly without your approval if it pertains to preemptions of the development order, land of element regulation, comprehensive plan of voluntary annexation.  That is basically describing the rural growth boundary.  Only the local governing body or anyone can put this on a referendum.  County Counsel you must approve this type of referendum.  Under our charter the County Council approve referendum must be by 2/3 vote of the entire body.  Then we are going to go to SB 180.  We have taken a look at SB 180.  It applies to comprehensive land developments, building permits.  That is the first half of the rural growth boundary limits for land development regulations and majority votes and things like that.  However, it does not apply to an annexation.  An annexation is not a comprehensive plan amendment, it is not development and has nothing to do with the permits.  It is the boundaries of the city.  SB 180 affects the rural growth boundary in terms of land-use authority of a charter County, it does not affect the provisions allowed by statute of voluntary annexation.  That is our legal analysis.  If you like to go forward there is additional information to consider.  That is the threshold question, we have given legal advice and that is a large portion of orange County rural growth boundaries.  If you would like to proceed the exclusive is available.  


>> DANNY ROBINS: A couple of quick questions.  It could possibly help me out.  How many other counties are using the policy like this?  
>>  There are two current counties that have and three but two have voluntary annexation.  Pinellas County attempted to do it.  Their policy under their charter was challenged and they lost.  


>> DANNY ROBINS: Have we seen a common denominator of why those two counties, do we see anything in common of the issues they were experiencing?  Anything like that?  Does that make sense?  
>>  They have a lot of municipalities in them.  


>> DANNY ROBINS: Why did they do it?  
>>  You know orange County why they did that.  It was in response to the ranch in the eastern portion of orange County.  


>> DANNY ROBINS: How many large have we identified a map with dots of how many large properties?  The whole point of this was obviously to protect our rural areas.  How much larger parcels of property do we have left?  We almost own 40% of the county close to it.  What is really left that will make this worthwhile?  I do not know if that is right word for it.
>>  I don't know if we have that information right now.  That is something that is up for consideration for additional information.  Ray is here.


>> DANNY ROBINS: Doing a more single-family lots for the everyday person?  
>>  There are leftovers and incorporated area, it is a mix.  For the type of annexation request we get about half of those are single-family less than half of the acre.  The remaining lots, I cannot answer that question.  


>> DANNY ROBINS: Have we looked in depth and I think these are pertinent questions to consider a vote.  In a land-use policy we discourage enclaves in urban sprawl.  Have we seen or I haven't seen that in the four – five years I have been here.  Have we seen that?  Do we have documentation and have we look that far into it?  Where urban sprawl happens and where is the sprawl within the city already?  It has to be identified as coming from the county.  Does that make sense?  
>>  A little bit.  A lot of the development occurs in the municipalities and not a lot occurs in the county.  Urban sprawl is usually a leap from development from urban center and generate a kind of intense development that is away from the urban centers.  If the cities are the ones that are growing and developing those are your urban centers.  


>> DANNY ROBINS: It would be helpful to me to see if we have any of that.  We want to try to curb that possibly if it is happening.  I don't think it has but I would like to see that data.  It would be pertinent for me to make a decision.  My last question to wrap it up, are we taking away the city's local control with this?  
>>  This is a preemption.  


>> DANNY ROBINS: In comparison to the SB 180 issue, I know we did not support getting local control taken away.  Pretty much we would be doing the same thing to the cities in this case?  Theoretically?  
>>  It is a preemption.  You are preempting the process of annexation and inserting whatever policy this counsel wants to put as a charter.  


>> DANNY ROBINS: Those local plans just for the record what kind of protections do we already have in place that is keeping those?  We do not have utilities out there.  That keeps us rural.  What other protections just to give my folks a piece of mind what are the protections we have in place for our rural communities that want to stay rural?  
>>  Like you identify utilities is a big one.  Tomoko Farms we entered a local agreement with Port Orange even though it is in the port orange utility service area.  Port orange juice can't go and serve unincorporated Volusia County unless there is a public health safety.  That kind of prevents utilities from going there and forces development.  [INDISCERNIBLE] We have boundary agreements with five municipalities Daytona, Ormond, Edgewater etc. Those are other mechanisms that the county has engaged in to come to an understanding on annexation and services.  
>>  Anything else?  
>>  Just for the Council's benefit clarify in a local plan and Tomoko Farms I think I misspoke.  If they annex the property and then they can serve them, correct?  
>>  Correct.  
>>  Repeat the last part.  
>>  In the agreement we have with port orange prevents them from providing utilities to the unincorporated area unless there is an overriding public safety.  If they annex a parcel that is adjacent to the city than they are not From providing utilities because it is a part of the city.  It is a protection for the unincorporated area.  
>>  Can I ask a follow-up to that?  Don't some cities require people if they're going to be on the utilities to annex also?  How does this affect that?  
>>  We have entered a local agreement even if you are with port more specifically we don't have a Interlocal agreement.  Any others specifically says that even if you provide utilities, you cannot require that person you are providing utilities to, to enter into annexation agreement with the city.  That is covered by another agreement between the county and port orange to prevent that situation where a city -- 
>>  Is of that occurring right now in some cities?  
>>  Not in the Tomoko Farms area.  That is the typical way within utility service areas a city provides utilities in exchange when the time is ready the city boundaries are contiguous that parcel will annex it.  


>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Cities are also allowed to extend their utility service boundaries two – 5 miles out from there city limits.  Cities that have exercised that and new Smyrna goes out pretty far in the wooded area.  How would something like this if he were to pass affect all of that?  
>>  They would have to go to County Counsel to annex it.  


>> DAVID SANTIAGO: The county counsel says no, do they get utilities or don't get utilities?  Thank you, Mr. chair.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: It is my purpose for bringing this us -- up, I do not want to waste time on the rural boundaries of it because we can't do it with 180.  Annexation we can.  The point you brought up and Danny brought up is my main concern that right now the county residents who moved to an area that is rural for agriculture or rural residential for the lifestyle have no say in changing that.  If a city comes in and says we want to annex a property that is next to Newman's Farms or whatever and Tomoko Farms it has happened to them with port orange annexing away from the county at least to the north of them.  The residents did not want it but the residents did not have a vote.  The land owner had a vote with the city and the residents can go to the city meetings and voice their concerns.  They felt like nobody cared because they do not vote for those representatives.  They had nothing in the game.  I would like to see but the point that you two discussed about preemption's were interesting.  To me it is a reverse preemption.  The county is being preempted of protecting our current zoning and land use.  If a city comes in and wants to annex and change all of that.  It looks to me like we are the ones that are preempted not the city.  I am not sure I understand your argument for that.  
>>  The statute calls it a preemption.  


>> JAKE JOHANSSON: I spent some time in the city and we never annexed and call people and ask if they want to annex.  They said, no.  Isn't a land owner that usually so when we say the city is going to annex, the city do not want to annex.  Maybe they do but they do not go out shopping for annexation.  It is the land owner.  Again, we keep talking about what color shirt that most of us wear up here.  I don't know.  I just want to make sure that we are clear I want to make sure the city is not annexing County.  
>>  Then the cities make the annexation.  It always comes from the land owner but yes the landowner has property rights.  My concern is that everybody that lives around also has property rights thinking they could trust the government zoning and land use.  Nothing lasts forever but they should at least have a voice in it.  My only ask is that we allow the people of.[INDISCERNIBLE] Vote on do we want to change.  Those neighbors get some representation in that process that they have a say in it with somebody where they have skin in the game.  It gives them a hearing to come 2 to say why they are against it and how they will alter the neighborhood they live in and the quality of life or whatever it is.  In my opinion it can't just be one homeowner that has the ability to change the integrity of an entire neighborhood.  This does that in the case of Tomoko Farms village, it has created terrible flooding with the new development that went on into the north.  They did not have any vote in it.  All this would do and all I am asking is that it County resident gets a vote from there County Counsel and this counsel could determine as far as I understand whether or not that is a majority vote or super majority vote.  It is to stop and annexation but it gives the people a chance to go to their elected officials and make the case from someone who does have skin in the game.  Before their properties value go up or down the way of life is severely altered.  I just think we work better when we give or pay attention to everybody's property rights not just the one residential owner or land owner that doesn't like the limitation of our zoning and wants to probably sell to a developer and put in a much higher number of houses per acre.  Just give the people a chance to come before their voting body and tell us their concerns.  And then we vote on it.  I do not see that as a preemption.  It may be defined that way by law but otherwise we are preempting all of the homeowners around an owner that wants to annex.  We are preempting their rights and their chance to have any say in this whatsoever.  I want people to have a say.  


>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I am sitting here trying to analyze this Mr. chair.  I am not completely opposed to that idea.  My thought process, and thinking about how it plays out.  I can support that concept if the voters passed it.  Without having a processor that what I mean is that, what is the county going to consider?  For example with the county do it in event or whatever criteria we spell it out and identify that these are the important things that we want to look at when it comes to and annexation.  For us to review and apply the standard equally to everyone.  Again, process.  What I want to avoid without having a detail process what we would consider is random yes and no.  I want the public to have an input also.  I want to make sure that the rights of the person appealing for the annexation are just as importantly weighed as the people that are opposed to it for example.  For legitimate reasons.  I think it is un-American from a property rights perspective.  If we can have clear boundaries and you formula your opinion during the hearing like we do in some of our quasi-judicial.  I fear we should not govern by mob rule, it should be a process that is fair to everyone.  Just because 10 neighbors came out or two neighbors came out and what do we gauge that by?  We're going back to your intent, I am okay with the County Counsel saying yes we want this property to leave county governance and enter into city governance.  Because of what it is going to be, I do not have a problem with that.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: I understand your point.  Jay, we have allowed some back and forth here.  Right now the people that live around the property don't have any.  A process yes but I think I disagree that just the fact that they would say, my backyard is not an acceptable reason.  I kind of think that it is what people buy into community thinking this is going to remain rural.  The same thing as Belvedere.  And then all of a sudden it is going to radically change to something else.  I don't think that is asking too much to give a vote on it.  We probably have some minor differences but I think we can work out.  We can make it fair for everybody but they need to have a say.  


>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I do not have a problem with somebody saying not in my backyard.  That should not be the overwhelming driving factor to decide something.  I think we can get there.  What I am asking for if I can support this concept going forward if we agree that we create a process.  What that process looks like we decide.  
>>  You said we would have the creative process.  
>>  The process needs to be in the charter.  


>> DAVID SANTIAGO: The charter like which would say should the county create this process the process itself -- 
>>  When I mentioned that Pinellas County tried to do the same process and they got lost because they tried to deferred a natural process to county ordinance.  The case law is that everything related to the voluntary annexation needs to be in the charter.  The process need to be spelled out in the charter.  


>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Before we put in the ballot we have to come up with those terms?  
>>  Yes.


>> CHAIR BROWER: This is not going to get done tonight.  
>>  The annexation process the city go through is a legislative decision.  Someone may petition the city to come in.  The city does not have to annex the promissory -- property.  It is not a quasi-judicial, it is a legislative one.  


>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I can support it depending on the process.  


>> JAKE JOHANSSON: Have we had any cities deny annexation recently?  
>>  I believe DeLand has denied one or withdrew and kind of denied another.  It was a property north of the airport.  It did not annex into the city of DeLand.  There was one recently a few years ago where the city actually denied the annexation.  It was on the corner of Blue Lake and Taylor.  The city of DeLand initially denied the annexation.  They went through and created an entirely new comprehensive land use category.  And then eventually allowed the annexation after it went through a few County processes so that development can fit into DeLand new comprehensive plan.  


>> JAKE JOHANSSON: I think last Tuesday and happened in Sarasota as well.  It was denied by Port Orange which was another annexation.  Can the intent of this annexation be covered by I SBA or MO a between the cities that seem to be expanding?  
>>  Yes.  One of the things that we should of taken account of is that including the cities that have entered into I SBA from this process because that is another tool where both the city and county agree to the maximum extent of annexation and allows for the removal of enclaves and control of utilities and services in the ISBA area.  


>> JAKE JOHANSSON: That is all the questions I have for now, thank you.  


>> DANNY ROBINS: I think where we say for instance we want people to have a say, what I can envision or picture what I have done I think a lot of us up here have done as well.  When something like this comes up and it is rare what would be wrong with the county representing advocating obviously for his district or whatever his case may be with the city officials in appealing to them.  We are representation in that county.  I think there's a way to go about it and that is where some of these relationships comes in.  In the five years we have been up here chair, I have seen some scenarios where sometimes right out of the gate I see folks automatically don't know anything around the situation and what legal steps we had to follow.  It is no, we don't want it.  I can understand in some instances.  But I compare it to catching it with honey.  We had the LAD processes which is voluntary.  We have seen a couple of them come in and they know that is what we want.  They have brought up some good projects here in the last few months that has been all unanimous.  I think approach is a lot to this stuff.  Another thing that scares me about David's some of these processes or standards is that in the past quasi-judicial hearings for instance for a long time they were not being followed.  There are many instances but I would have to go back through my nose where it is clear before that hearing things were being said out of criteria.  During the meeting the criteria wasn't being followed openly.  That is why for a while we saw court reporters sitting here for every hearing that we had.  At the end of the day there may be a way to see what areas are possibly going.  I know we had four or five on the east side.  If there's development will we have to come with ISBA on the west side of town and in certain other places to create that buffer or limit stuff, I would be open to that.  I don't know how this would sit in right now.  I am open.  That is pretty much my concerns with it thus far.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: Any other questions?  No other questions.  I am going to ask and I think Danny we have to take another step to see what the process would be and see what would fit in.  It seems to be pretty simple.  It gives the residents an area and I am hearing from Edgewater, to local farms, DeLand that we just want a voice in the process.  I would like to see somebody put forth a motion that we send this to staff to come back with a reasonable legal process and then we can discuss what we are voting on.  
>>  Would it behoove us to get any more data?  I don't know if a motion would be premature.  How will we make a decision based on, we would have to see a case of urban sprawl or properties that were not in the cities that were annexed.  The has to be data out there.  Because if there's no data out there, we are creating a solution to a problem that does not exist.  I think there's some instances where there may be a problem.  We have to address it.  Can it be addressed by ISBA or another means to tighten it up?  Absolutely.  Going to third base before going to first base and having the core information first, I don't know is that is wise or it may be premature at this point.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: For me I feel like I have seen the data just from traveling around the county going to all of the places that I have just seen in looking at the urban sprawl.  You pointed out our David pointed out that we own 40% of the interior of the county.  All the easy places to develop have been developed.  Now it is the harder places.  We may disagree on this but I think it is contributing to significant flooding issues.  Urban sprawl and has an obvious effect on the county.  If the evidence is there, I am asking that we look at the process that Mr. Santiago was to see.  Let's just give the voters of Volusia County a chance to vote on this.  Jake Johansson?  


>> JAKE JOHANSSON: Is the purpose of the rural boundary as we are discussing right now to stop development and stop flooding?  Or do people have voice in annexation?  
>>  I am not talking about a rural boundary at all.  I am focusing on the annexation.  And the purpose if that is just to give the surrounding neighborhoods a chance to participate in the process.  Because they have none.  


>> JAKE JOHANSSON: They don't feel like they have because of the city?  Thank you.  


>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Thank you Mr. Chairman.  I am still about the process.  Another problem with giving direction for staff to give us options for what that could look like and discuss it.  And then make a decision then.  I will be interested to see what it would look like.  I can understand the perspective Mr. chair of neighbors not having representation.  I can respect that.  I think that is a legitimate comment by people that are affected by it.  I'm trying to put myself in those shoes.  I want to be able to have a voice to hold that person accountable.  Mr. chair, I move that we direct staff to give us options with processes for voluntary annexations to consider for a possible referendum charter amendment.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: That is fair enough.  Councilman Santiago makes a motion for staff to come back with processes for changes to voluntary annexation.  Can I leave it with that or do you want to add something?  Troy Kent makes a second.  Now we are open to debate and we do have three or four members of the public that want to speak.  


>> VICE CHAIR REINHART: I do understand from when I first read this.  But you brought up a good point.  I guess I am a home role guy.  And he pointed out preemption on behalf of the county which brought up a good point.  The ones that are going to argue this about being annexed into the city are the surrounding properties and not the property owner.  They should have a say.  I think what hit home for me was the fact that when they go to the city commission, the city commission knows that they are not in the city.  And I get it.  We do not have to.  That is a very good point I appreciate the fact that it was brought up.  One that came to mind is one of my districts and part of Tomoko Farms village.  I think about what the city have done right across the street.  And I am not faulting the city, don't get me wrong.  That was their argument.  They feel that it was causing the flooding so I appreciate that.  So when you brought up the idea Mr. Santiago about getting more information, do want that process explained to me on what that would take.  Enough said, want to make sure that was voiced.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: Councilman -- he went away.  
>>  We know what to bring forward and will provide additional information.  If this goes through depending upon if you exclude anything, you're looking at this Council approving 40 – 16 annexation petition per year.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: That makes it -- 


>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I am just brainstorming here.  Is there a way we can in the referendum and you said 40 – 60 in your earlier testimony you said a lot of this one I consider small annexations.  Our most of those 1 acre?  
>>  Some 1 acre most of them are less than an acre.  


>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Is there a way we can put a size limit?  
>>  That is the kind of options we need to see.  


>> DON DEMPSEY: Is the only way possible way to amend is to the referendum?  
>>  Yes.


>> DON DEMPSEY: There's no way of tweaking it?  
>>  The statute provides the default process and you must follow the statute.  The only interaction that the county has in annexation process normally is if we object or sue.  Which we have done before if they annexed that does not comply with the statute.  They mushroom out or create enclave and we object to those types of annexations.  You can get into an agreement which we have done with five cities.  That generates the maximum extent and allows for recommendation of those unincorporated enclaves.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: Is there one more member of the public in order they came to me.  John Nicholson?  
>>  John Nicholson, Daytona Beach side.  I came from Miami-Dade County and he had a service boundary 30 miles outside of town.  They said they don't want to develop past the forms and the houses etc. We are not going to go into that and we will wait and we will slowly build out.  What we did in Daytona Beach in Williams was on steroids in Miami.  It was building up left and right so they passed this before Jake was born.  It has been around for quite a while.  I am wondering if we can do either a freeze on our zoning?  If we have 10 houses per acre with a freeze that for 25 years, 50 years or 100 years and tied to the taxation.  I know that Farms which I objected to years ago with the city NASCAR came in and rezoned their industrial area to farm.  They were going to grow hay on it.  They had 300 or 400 acres and the tax bill went up.  Income took a nosedive.  If we are saying you have this farmland, trees, horses, cattle or whatever you're going to have a tax break on the property, we now say you can have that tax break at three levels.  At one point for 25 years you can have it for 25 or you can have a another tax rate at 50 years if you guarantee you're not going to develop it for 50 years or 100 years.  It gives them a break and he gives us a break.  Otherwise they are land speculators.  They said there and they sit on two dollars per acre for 30 years until it gets ready to develop and they save the money.  The house is a painful fair because they are not ranches or whatever.  If we want to try to guarantee and save as much farmland as he possibly can, we need to change the way we tax them.  We buy development rights, why are we buying development rights and then give them tax breaks.  You have to keep it for 25 or 50.  Thank you.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: You got that?  I am open to ideas.  Amy?  You will be followed by Stephen?  
>>  Good afternoon.  We know that Senate Bill 180 precludes a lot of what was being discussed on this last October.  This time around the focus is on private property rights to voluntary annexation.  In 2006 urban growth amendment was placed on the ballot and was not approved by voters.  In the 19 years since that time only 10,000 acres of land has been annexed into Vanessa policies in the last 19 years.  Nearly 6000 of those acres was by cooperative agreement between Volusia County and limited police municipalities.  It is a cooperative approach between Volusia County and the municipalities to jointly determine how to best provide services such as water, sewer or road maintenance and cooperatively adjust municipalities to reduce single pockets of unincorporated lots surrounded by a municipality.  We support this cooperative approach.  However, some private property owners may find the expense of maintaining wells and septic systems.  The lack of municipal services to be daunting.  If they want an adjoining municipality offer them services, they should not be forced into an extra level of government intrusion in their decision to care for the property as they best deem for themselves.  We don't believe impeding a private property owner's ability to obtain municipal services is the right approach to managing growth.  The best way to protect land from development and I believe this is what this is really all about is to buy that land.  Volusia forever is a mechanism that voters have continue to support for outright purchase of land for conservation.  Volusia forever can also offer conservation easements that compensate land owners for giving up an opportunity to develop their land and allow them to continue agriculture activities.  Agriculture is a major contributor to our economy.  Volusia County farmers have a very important role in maintaining our food supply.  Through Volusia forever and other funding partners agriculture easements compensate farmers for agreeing to keep their land and farming.  It maintains the value of the land should they wish to sell it to others for continuing farming purposes.  We continue to support the opposition to rural boundaries or any element of rural boundaries that devalue their lands and their farms.  Thank you.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: Stephen Crump?  
>>  Steve Crump, I am here to speak on behalf of Board of Directors.  About a year ago they came to get input on implementing the rural growth boundaries.  It is concerned about the impact of growth in the county and result of construction and the need to do something about it and how other counties implemented the boundaries.  The construction is causing problems for current residence especially flooding adjacent to new subdivisions.  Annexation by city seems to be on controlling.  We are losing farmland to development and the cost to purchase land in the counties -- [INDISCERNIBLE].  After discussion the board concluded and voted that rural is not in -- [INDISCERNIBLE].  If your land happens to be on the urban side of the line the value increases greatly because it was development potential.  But if your land is on the rural side of the line, it is devalued because it is lost potential development.  The board saw this as uncompensated devaluation of assets and impacts on the farmer's ability to borrow against the value of the land and potentially reduces the resale value of the land which is often their retirement plan.  Farm Bureau at the state and county has been supportive of preserving farmland by using conservation and agricultural easements like Volusia forever.  The Florida Department of agriculture rural and family and the land only -- [INDISCERNIBLE].  Regarding this proposal today the Volusia County Board of Directors recognizes the growth that has been occurred and impacts on rural and urban residents in the county.  But needs more time to research and discuss this proposal with the members before taking a position.  We asked the county staff include us in future conversations and communications so that we can ensure that we have the best and latest information.  Thank you for your time.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: Councilman Santiago?  


>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Thank you Mr. Chairman.  I want to make sure at least I am very clear.  The motion that is in play right now has nothing to do with implementing a rural growth boundary.  It is to direct staff to look at voluntary annexation and how language can be replaced potentially on the ballot for folks to decide that.  And processes around that.  That is all we are just discussing here today.  


>> DON DEMPSEY: I am against and I am want to be a no on the vote.  For one home rule.  I went along with this and to lobby for the modifications because I don't think we don't want big brother state to tell little brother County to tell us what we are doing.  On the flipside big brother County is telling little brother cities what they can and can't do with the properties.  I think I want to say hypocritical but borderline hypocritical of telling the cities what they can and can't do with their properties.  When we do not like big brother state telling us what to do without properties as well.  On principle, I am against it.  The other thing is who writes are we trying to protect?  The property owners or the adjoining property owners.  Like we talked about before when we did the special exception.  I am more concerned about the property rights of the property owners than the neighbors.  I do not see it to where, I think it is infringing on property rights to tell the property owner that you no longer have a choice but that my between going through the city and the county.  If you want to be a part of the city and joined the city why shouldn't they are why do they have to go to another layer of government?  They should not have to do it.  I have said this before and I have been criticized for saying it.  I am not a big fan of Echo I'm sorry Volusia forever having this goal of us acquiring 50% of the county land.  We are doing that in perpetuity.  Imagine if the Indians when they sold us Manhattan's if they said no more than five teepees per acre and that is it.  That is in perpetuity.  It is very vain for us to think we know what is good for the community 100 years from now or 300 years from now or 500 years from now.  I would like to talk about this at a later meeting but I do not feel comfortable with our goal being in perpetuity.  Half of our county is tied up in perpetuity.  If you research a capitalist society is almost the majority part of -- private property.  Are we going to be content with being halfway to a Marxist society?  Is that really our goal?  I want to help the farmers and I want to give them the right to do what they want.  They may be a time in the future where we really need to develop this property.  I'm sure at one time New York was farmland.  Pennsylvania, downtown's Pittsburgh have changed your dynamic over the last 100 years.  In law there is a principal rule against proper -- perpetuity.  Here we are talking about making rules that are going to go far beyond that.  I do not feel comfortable with that.  I do not like this rural growth boundary taking away the option of individual property owners to be able to go to whatever jurisdiction they want to be under and how to handle their land.  By doing the rural growth boundary it is big brother County telling little brother city telling them what they can or can't do.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: I understand that in your point of view on that.  Again, we are not talking about rural boundary.  We are talking about annexation.  I know you have the same issues with annexation properties.  We are talking about County land.  We are not talking about the city land.  We are talking about the city coming in and saying we are going to bring this land into our city and change the zoning and change the land use so they can build more houses.  One of the things that Steve didn't mention is when I went and spoke to this Farm Bureau the very first directive I was given by a friend and I know most of the people on the Farm Bureau board.  They were hollering but not hollering at me.  They are sick of it.  Just stop changing zoning and stop changing land use.  I was stunned.  That is what I am talking about.  And I'm not talking about stopping it.  If you are talking about the rural boundary amendment it requires a supermajority vote zoning and land use can change.  We are not talking about that here.  We are talking about annexation.  Maybe I have never discussed this with you.  Maybe you are against the fact that in America we have and we should research and see where it started.  We have zoning.  Build zoning here residential here.  That is what this protects is for the people that bought property knowing it had certain rights and potential and they wanted to count on that.  And then the next door neighbors wants to sell out and completely change the makeup of that community.  I just believe they should have a voice.  
>>  I think if you research the zoning only started only 100 years ago.  It has not always been around.  Downtown DeLand was built without zoning.  My office was built in 1892.  
>>  Maybe it is the reason he came in and people wanted to percent -- protect where they work and where they live.  This does not prevent anything.  It gives the community that is most affected a voice.  
>>  Are you a property rights guy or a property neighbors guide?  I don't think you can be both.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: I don't think I am one with no limits, notes.  
>>  I think we have a response ability to our neighbors.  
>>  Jake Johansson?  


>> JAKE JOHANSSON: I think we have a responsibility to our neighbors as well.  That is for anybody who has land.  However, I do not think we on this County Counsel have a responsibility to a property owners neighbor.  Let them handle it.  Let them work it out.  I believe and I know this is a far stretch because I have caught myself as well.  When you buy property you should be well aware of what it is, what it could be and what you neighbor ours and what they could be.  If you live in the middle of nowhere, it is a good chance of a lifetime you're not going to be encroach on urban sprawl.  There is a chance you're going to get affected by sprawl.  So you have to be aware of all of that I believe.  I am 100% with Don on this.  We live in a community and it is all application to chat with our neighbors.  I think I am going to sell my 40 acres and maybe I do not have a choice but maybe you can join me and be a part of the fun and we can all live large if that is the case.  Additionally, I want to retain the rural vibrancy of what we have.  We have Volusia forever and we have other incentive at the state and local level.  I want to keep farmers farming.  I do not want them to sell by choice.  I do not want to sell, want to be a farmer.  I want to raise cows.  I want to grow hay and corn.  I want to do all of that.  I do not want to sell my property.  But I also don't want my neighbors to have a say or what I do with my property.  If I did, how would you like it if your neighbor say your house smells and I want to sell it.  If you live rural there are things that may happen.  I think that the cities by and large will communicate and cooperate with us to be aware of what is going on.  If somebody wants to annex and the people around them are opposed, they can contact us and we can go to the city and talk to the elected officials.  I do it all of the time.  We have conversations.  I just don't like the added bureaucracy.  I think everybody has a right to their property.  You have to communicate with your neighbors.  It was back in the day where they were agreeing and disagreeing, I think we need to keep it up and just communicate more instead of bringing things the government to help solve problems.  


>> TROY KENT: I just want to say publicly Don Dempsey strikes again.  Thank you yet again.  Why are you smiling about that?  I just want to say we all add our own peace to these meetings.  Here you are changing minds.  I am appreciative so thank you.  


>> DAVID SANTIAGO: I want to bring it in for a landing.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: Carissa can you call the roll?  
>>  The motion is to direct staff to come back with language on the process for voluntary annexation changes.  And then the Council at that time would decide if we want to go forward with it.  So it doesn't create, it just brings back information of how that could be done and what it looks like.
>>  Mr. Johansson?  
>>  Yes.
>>  Mr. Kent.
>>  No.
>>  Vice Chair Reinhart.
>>  Yes.
>>  Robins.
>>  No.
>>  Santiago.
>>  Yes.
>>  Dempsey.
>>  No.
>>  Chair Brower.
>>  Yes.  
>>  Thank you all for your input.  


>> JAKE JOHANSSON: I am voting yes but it is going to take some convincing to get me to make this go any further.  Thank you.  That is what I am saying.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: If we want to put it on the ballot, it takes the supermajority.  
>>  I voted no for a specific reason.  It took what I brought up earlier, I need more data.  The chairman brought up good points with a small is something anything to the nature to get me over I need clear examples to see.  
>>  The next step as we move forward, we are going to collect the data.  There's going to be a lot of decisions of where this area is and how you delineate it and processes.  That is what we anticipated next that would be.  
>>  Anything with large land parcels left or single IQ said if there's any of that.  You guys know what to do.  
>>  Just to wrap the conversation that just occurred with Ray and Danny, we will bring a presentation to counsel.  There are a few decision points around how you want that charter crafted.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: Okay, thank you.  Item number 14.  District 1 and two appointments to the west Volusia tourism advertising authority.  
>>  I did place an additional application today for Brittany Madsen on your seats.  She did pass her background check this morning.  So I wanted to make sure you had her as an option as well.  It does have to be in order with Mr. Dempsey 1st and then Vice Chair Reinhart.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: Why does Dawn get to go first?  
>>  Because it is a rotational order.  It is adopted that way in the ordinance.  I will also say that one individual needs to be from the lodging industry.  
>>  Is there a second on that?  
>>  Second.  
>>  Mine will be Christine Forrest.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: Any questions or concerns about either person?  All in favor of confirming the appointment say aye.
>>  Aye.


>> CHAIR BROWER: It is confirmed 7/0.  Item 15 is district 1, four at-large and share appointments to the code enforcement board.  
>>  You have a couple of upcoming expiring as well and is vacancies on this board.  I wanted to point out by section 23 61 of the code says that membership of the code enforcement Board shall include an architect, businessperson, engineer, general contractor, subcontractor and a realtor.  Currently you only have a businessperson and a realtor.  If you can nominate individuals that are in the other professions that would be great.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: You are saying some of these on the list don't meet the qualifications?  
>>  They do not have to meet those qualifications but they shall based on the code.  Whenever possible.
>>  Does Mr. Dempsey get to go first again?  
>>  There's no rotation.
>>  When I'm ready.  


>> JAKE JOHANSSON: I want to get my name in there.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: There is no order this time?  Great.  


>> JAKE JOHANSSON: I nominate Don, a Navy guy.  He is an engineer.  He is a fighter pilot.  


>> TROY KENT: Do you want a second for Jake's?  I will do Pete.  He is a civil engineer.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: Is there a second for Pete?  I would say if they are qualified, a Marine technician.  
>>  Edward Pelosi?  
>>  I second.  
>>  Mr. Dempsey?  It is Mr. Furman, Richard Hernandez and Ronald Baxter.  
>>.[INDISCERNIBLE] 


>> CHAIR BROWER: None of them are clients?  [LAUGHTER] 
That's fine.  Okay.  
>>  I just want to know Mr. Kent is term expiring 2028.  Mr. Johansson is term expiring 2027.  And Chair Brower is Edward with term expiring November 18, 2026.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: Correct.  Any other questions on those?  Jake your name is still up.  All in favor of the three denominations please say aye.
>>  Aye.


>> CHAIR BROWER: Any opposed?  Nominated 7/0.  And Don will make one next meeting.  That brings us back to public participation for the people that have waited all day.  I appreciate that.  So we have some new ones but I am going to start with the ones that have been sitting here.  We will see who still remains again three minutes just tell us where you are from.  Marilyn Goldsmith?  Not here?  Does anybody know Marilyn?  Lori?  Lloyd, you are here.  [LAUGHTER] 
This is Lloyd Bowers.  
>>  Thank you, Mr. chair.  Lloyd Bowers district 2 resident and for the last 14 years district 2 reps on the cultural Council.  I am here today speak to you not as on behalf of the cultural Council but as a member of the cultural Council.  I would like to take you back to February 18.  That was the night or day that you were brought forward the restructure program that you requested there are cultural Council.  We work with staff in our community and came up with the program that night you excepted votes 6/1.  For you it is foundational and I get that.  But the rest of you went forward the program this year.  And so based on that all of the applicants had to do a completely new grant application that they had never done before.  Because you shifted it from operational expectexpenses to program expenses.  They did that in the cultural Council had the hearings.  They score the grants for you.  And then we had October 7 and that was when things were supposed to go through on the consent agenda but did not go through.  It has been discussions going on for the last four weeks on that.  I remember because I was one of the people that was still here that night or day and how many different motions failed for lack of a second.  And Councilman Dempsey and it was fun this year and do away with the program.  I now see the wisdom in that as far as the grant applications.  Because these organizations who have relied upon and have structured the program this year already in progress based on the grant cycle and applications and grants being awarded.  They are now literally without a branch to hang on as the river sweeps under them.  Although there are some that have a lot of's public support there are some that really have difficulty getting support from the public.  I looked at our house and it was an incredible job of bringing children in our community great program and reduce at no cost to them.  Across the board children participated in that.  The museum which does a great veterans outreach and bring in programming's at reduced or no cost to them.  Senior programming's are brought by other organizations so there is a public service that is provided by the organization.  It is simply asked that let's at least have the organizations have what was promised to them.  Save the decision for another day because you will have to make a decision.  The cultural Council still existed.  I will leave it to you.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: Danielle crown?  Daniel crown?  
>>  Good afternoon Gemma.  My name is Daniel crown.  I have been a Volusia County resident since 1968.  Today is an election day and that is always important to me a retired history teacher because it reminds me that the very foundational principles of the Republic is founded is public participation.  Listening to the people.  The people can vote and the people can come here and say what it is that they want to say and our elected leaders listen.  We hope.  I am here as part of the people to do that today.  The first thing I want to say is to each and everyone of you thank you.  Thank you for being willing to do a job that not everybody wants to do.  I don't suppose I agree with many of you on very many things.  But I respect so much when you are doing and your willingness to go through the mundane details of policy, work it out, argue amongst yourselves, I absolutely have respect for that.  The earlier I was zoning out a little bit while you're doing that.  I could be watching a first rehearsal table read of seven brides are seven brothers.  This is not a diverse group but to represent a diverse County.  At any time you scapegoat a minority and that County and use that as an excuse not to continue a policy, you let us know maybe you're not willing to represent everybody in the county.  A very strong advocate for the arts as you can tell.  I wish we -- [INDISCERNIBLE].  Representative Kent you are impassioned about your support on the beach.  I don't like dogs so I don't agree with you on that.  The thing that caught my ear is at least three or four times during his speech, you said this is what they want.  The people want this.  This is what the people have told me they want.  I guess we haven't let Mr. Kent know enough what the art community wants.  What we want is a little support.  With all due respect, I will say to Chair Brower almost principal man you are.  One thing you said before lunch however caught my ear.  What you said was when something gets in the budget, it is hard to get it out.  Again, with all due respect, you made it look really easy to us.  $611,000 Gone.  Thank you gentlemen again for your service.  We do appreciate it.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: Thank you for your comments.  Asher?  Is Asher here?  This is a relatively new one, I thought.  Asher is not here.  John Nicholson?  
>>  John Nicholson, Beachside.  I want to clarify when I spoke about the discussion of the dog beach with someone.  It was one night at the gallery downtown.  I initially forgot and that is when she said, we are about to get the whole beach.  I assume when she said the whole beach, she meant the entire beach.  That is where that one stands.  We did have that conversation.  Secondly, on renaming part of the roadway system for Mr. Kirk, I personally read five newspapers, three newsmagazines, one U.S. and one Canadian.  I had never heard of his name.  I'm sorry that he was assassinated.  But to make a decision on a knee-jerk reaction, I think there needs to be time to let the subtle and then determine his impact on this community and our relationship to him.  After Kennedy died everything was named after Kennedy and we had to change back Cape Canaveral from Kate Kennedy.  I would ask you to wait a while to naming a road after Mr. Kirk.  With regard to nonprofits, there is a reason why they are nonprofits.  We have always supported the arts.  What is the difference between sports and the arts?  There are people that live and die for sports.  There are people that can tell you every homerun, every stat for a player or a team but I can't.  You know how I am with the arts.  I appreciate the arts and I see the value of it.  That will be coming back to you more than once.  Lastly, we have an artist that lives in Flagler.  I would love to have it but can't afford it.  He is a world renowned artist.  He was born and raised here and I would like to see several more of those.  Thank you.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: Steve?  
>>  Hello, I am Steve and I live in DeLand.  I was done when you all denied the funding which should have been budgeted for the arts.  I heard some of your discussion today on the children and family advisory board and I know it is difficult to assess competing needs and benefits.  But what bothers me is that recreation has been deemed superior to the other.  I am not a big sports fan but I have not resented the funds that was spent on baseball and pickle ball courts.  We have been contemplating for dirt bikes so I want to know what makes plain on a baseball team better than playing a role on the stage?  Supporting the arts is charity then so is maintaining baseball fields and pickle ball courts.  If were going to spend millions on one form of public recreation, you should not be pulling the rug out from under another.  The speaker ahead of me cited some of the benefits the arts bring to veterans and children.  I want to point out the fall Festival of the arts coming up which brings hundreds of artists and thousands of people into DeLand.  It has been doing so every year.  I spoke to some of the artist one year and they love coming here.  Part of the reason they love it is because we have a lively arts program.  We run our festival properly.  We judge the works.  That makes it a very high quality.  I would be one of the many who keeps bringing it back.  The arts are important to many of us.  They bring us monetary benefits as well.  I don't know what else to say that hasn't been said before.  Thank you for your consideration.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: Thank you.  That closes public participation for the afternoon.  We will go to closing comments.  County manager, George Recktenwald?  
>>  I want to start off with an announcement.  The county has a proud history of serving veterans.  I want to add to what we are doing for them.  The county is going to show support for veterans by participating in operation green light for veterans.  It is sponsored by the national Association of Counties and the national Association of County veterans service officers.  On November 11, we are going to illuminate the ocean center, historic courthouse.  It will be green nice to let the veterans know they are seen and appreciated and supported.  The other thing I was going to comment on from earlier today, the Miller Lake and I feel like I have to clarify.  The idea that Ben Bartlett is approving something is an accurate.  A permit in question is a development in Orange city is applying to St. John's water management District.  There's a big difference between approving and denying and we have no ability to do that.  We did not send a letter.  It is important to differentiate because I make that assertion of other stuff that occurred.  We have not approved or denied anything.  We are just not have an objection because we don't have mathematical or technical reason to do such.  In fact I think Ben send out an email explaining he has reviewed the project.  It is taking a system that maybe isn't functioning as well and removing surface and supplying more retention on the site.  That is exactly the type of thing you want to do if you were going to hold water back.  I don't know about the complaint from the folks were not well informed on that.  We do not approve or disapprove those.  We did not object and the reason we did not object because we see that it is helping the situation.  You also approved previous meeting one of the studies that will cover the area of Miller Lake.  In addition to that we have been working with the Department of Transportation on solutions.  We also worked on potential emergency solutions.  We have been in contact with the district on that and the water management district as well.  We have been working with DeBary for any emergency for Miller Lake one of the major options is going to the DeBary system that is in place.  The system has limitations.  I believe you will see going forward that DeBary is looking at how they can expand the capacity of their system and maybe get an outfall to the river.  It will ultimately help the Miller Lake or any other agency that need to use the system.  That is just a little bit of an update.  Is there anything else that I didn't hit?  Thanks.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: I would like to ask one question for my own knowledge and hopefully the people of Miller Lake if you're listening.  George, you said it would hold more water back and that would be ideal.  That is what needs to happen.  I think they are focusing on whatever they read where the water was going to go through.  When I wanted to ask you, Ben we have been talking about this for a long time.  One of the first discussions here at the Council, I asked if we dug a retention pond with it hold more water?  I thought you said no it wouldn't because that area was so low.  I think I was talking at the time about the massive parking lot behind the professional center.  I don't know if you remember the conversation.  
>>  I think there was a discussion about acquiring big lot area.  I think the Miller Lake folks have a couple of concerns.  One is there are two situations.  There's a catastrophic release of water which occurs in a larger events.  All of the water goes flying towards Miller Lake and fills it up.  That has happened twice.  Those particular situations digging a retention pond upstream in those areas is not going to well.  The other concern this type of pond in these types of events there is less runoff of removing 14,000 feet². They are digging 22,000 feet of cubic storage.  The water may have been moving to the system and ultimately big lots take a pipe that may have an effect based on what I have seen of reducing that flow into something they have argued for.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: Where is the location?  
>>  It is on the Royal Oak parking lot near the pond.  They are removing 14,000 feet² of concrete.  There is a natural low area and they are digging out additional for retention.  One other thing is there installing backflow device to prevent water from back flowing onto them.  Which will help because that water takes space in the system and will leave space from when the water is moving from the other direction.  I took a look at the plans and what is on the St. John's website of what have been submitted.  I called the engineer of record to confirm what I was looking at and my interpretation and match their intent.  Their intent is to increase storage to hold more water.  
>>  You told me wouldn't work.
>>  It wouldn't work in the larger events.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: Is the St. John's plans?  
>>  It is a modification to the existing ERP permit.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: Okay.  What is the elevation of the lake this week?  
>>  Miller Lake, you will receive an email a couple weeks ago.  It had a significant amount of rain and I forget.  It had risen approximately 6 inches.  I responded that we measured the lake level week to week.  We take a photo that is time stamped and geo-located.  It had gone up an inch and and a half from that week to the previous week.  From last week to this week we got a new reading today because they read on Tuesdays.  It went up an inch and and a half and went down an inch and and a half so it is roughly the same.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: I asked him when he got here and I thought they said a drop more than that.  They said they had a good week.  Hopefully, we are at the end of the hurricane season.  Did we have two or one in last November?  
>>  One of the worst tropical pool storms we had here occurred right in the middle.  I am known for my positivity.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: Were you done?  County attorney Michael daate?  
>>  I have nothing, thank you.  Have a good night.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: Okay, we will go to council members.  Sorry Jake but your name is the first today.  


>> JAKE JOHANSSON: I am going to try to change that.  Thanks Ben and the County manager for talking about Miller Lake.  That was interesting to me.  I saw it when the emails were flowing back and forth.  They are building upon the now they don't want it but I understand what the backflow and issues associated.  On November 5, I am going to discuss any to represent the county at the Central Florida regional planning conference.  I will figure out what we are doing and report back.  It should be pretty interesting I suppose.  We're going out there.  God bless America.  I will report back.  November 8 and 15th, I have the opportunity and there are two days for me to represent the Navy and help our congressman Mills and nominates the next batch of U.S. Naval Academy.  It is candidates to be nominated to the Naval Academy.  I know you all cannot be there but it is a rare opportunity to see 12 – 15 phenomenal graduates come up before us to try to be a naval officer in the Army and the Air Force does the same thing.  It is just a phenomenal opportunity.  He gives me not renewed faith but faith that the next generation has a good head on their shoulders.  They are going to lead us and protect the freedoms that we enjoy right now.  I am looking forward to that.  Also, I would like to acknowledge my own boss VP Cheney passed away earlier this morning.  I spent three years with the gentleman.  He cared for our country and care very much for the freedoms we enjoyed.  I enjoyed working with him back then.  I did not always agree with some of his decisions.  It was a pleasure working in the White House and working with him.  My thoughts go out to his family this week as they deal with that grief.  Lastly, I am very much looking forward to this coming year with our goals and our budget.  I think we are all thinking in the right direction.  I want to make sure that we do the right thing.  It feels good to get down to the lowest number.  I remember that we have an obligation to our constituents all of them even the ones that don't vote the youngsters.  We have to think about that as we move forward and be true to what this community truly wants and not what we want or not what others beyond our borders want.  I look forward to working with everybody.  Thank you.  


>> TROY KENT: Since we are making recommendations, can you put me at the next meeting first?  And the one after that I will be last.  Dr., it is great to have you back in these chambers.  It is great to see you with your level of professionalism, knowledge to your subject matter.  It is good to have you.  Ben gets my top honors today.  You have been on top of your game lately.  I know I have noticed more so lately.  I am appreciative of it.  Thank you for bringing that letter A game.  When there is a king tied that road is underwater.  You do not know it is underwater until you got there.  Now at Tomoka State Park there is a sign that says turn around the road is underwater.  The question from the constituent was can a trail cam be put up so that someone can log on to the Volusia website and look at it and see if it is underwater or not?  
>>  We can look at that.  We can put the notice for the back.  


>> TROY KENT: The notice should be Granada and beech Street and maybe a mile up the road from there.  Maybe two notices before you get to Tomoka State Park which is you are right there at that point.  It makes you turn around and you are back in 15 – 20 minutes.  It is just an idea.  That is a great location.  And just because I'm curious George I know in Ormond residents, you pay a reduced rate to play baseball or any major services.  If your County resident, do you pay a reduced rate to participate in sports?  Is it the same?  Do you know?  
>>  I don't know off the top of my head.  


>> TROY KENT: Do you know?  You're going to take the top spot from Ben.  
>>  I am competitive.  [LAUGHTER] 
When you compare versus out of County so in County residents pay a lower fee then out of County.  


>> TROY KENT: I was curious about that.  
>>  If it is funded by Echo, we run this into some of the municipalities.  They were charged to use a field less than it would charge a County resident versus a city resident.  They will adjust them when we pointed out.  


>> TROY KENT: Thank you very much.  That is all.  


>> VICE CHAIR REINHART: Brad, happy birthday.  Just a couple of things.  Just when you thought it was safe, what am I going to bring up?  There you go.  Some time ago when we first got elected, the jail the staffing levels were extremely low.  I think it was 60 or 70 positions they were down.  We brought those tremendously back up and I may have referenced it before.  We see some of those numbers coming down or going up I should say again which is normal.  But I also understand that we are going to be doing four corrections classes per year which is awesome.  About every quarter or so, get asked to go to the state college to talk to the recruits of every class.  I have already committed four times next year.  The level of individuals that we are hiring is awesome.  I remember when I did this in the very beginning talking to that class the conversation lasted about 15 – 20 minutes.  Now it is an hour and and a half because you get asked questions about government not just corrections or law enforcement.  That is good news I want to share with everybody.  The jury was still out on you by the way.  The next thing I was going to ask, I think we talked about it and I'm glad you're still here.  Now that we have the animal control situation and I know we talked about it before, it needs to have something similar.  The dog program at the jail and I was doing some research and I know Brevard County and Marion County have programs in their jails.  The state prison system has a number of them.  Paul's and parole, and some really cool names.  There is a plethora of programs that I would like to get to the -- that.  I don't know if it takes a vote or a motion or just direction to do that.  
>>  Sure, that can happen.  Like you mentioned it is something we have done before.  


>> VICE CHAIR REINHART: They are teaching them, it doesn't just teach the dogs, it is under supervision.  You are not letting every intimate.  We started with the female inmates before.  We reinvent that so to speak.
>>  We can definitely take a look at that.  
>>  Let me research or have staff research that.  I need to know about what it is going to cost for staffing in all of that.  


>> VICE CHAIR REINHART: For staff to come back with more information.  
>>  Thank you.  
>>  There is no second to the motion yet.  I made a motion.  


>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Let him sweat for a little bit.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: Question, debate all in favor say aye.
>>  Aye.


>> CHAIR BROWER: Any opposed?  


>> VICE CHAIR REINHART: Once a year we go on vacation I would not be here at the next meeting.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: When did you start going to vacation together?  
>>  Definitely not with this guy.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: Everybody else show up.  
>>  That is all I have.  Thank you.  


>> DANNY ROBINS: Thank you, chair.  I attended a community meeting Sunday at the taco shack.  We were getting hammered and southeast Volusia by a group of people that are filing ADA complaints.  It is hurting a lot of businesses.  Some of them appear to be frivolous and some to be legit.  Nonetheless I would like to think tank this.  Is for federal ADA violations.  I'll think there is anything we can do at a local level.  Maybe think about it for a little while of how we can possibly work with our businesses better.  I don't know if we do a voluntary inspection is the answer so we are not held liable.  Or maybe a notice at the top of their business receipts dealing with ADA.  It is something and what is happening isn't right.  Maybe just think about it for a little bit.  If you need more information I will get it to you.  Other than that everything is good.  I appreciate it.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: Have you discussed that with the county attorney jet?  


>> DANNY ROBINS: I think we hinted on it a couple weeks ago.  That is what is making it difficult.  I know at the state level they changed some policies a few years ago to combat this.  It has been 30 or 40 of these lawsuits filed in the last two years.  They are just settling.  They are getting the settlement money.  A couple of them have taken it to court and spent a couple hundred thousand and they have to settle.  It is putting my people in a bad spot.  I don't know if we can make an appeal to our federal representative formally.  
>>  We could talk without federal lobbyists.  
>>  I don't know if you need direction for that.  
>>  If I have a consensus.
>>  You guys go with that?  
>>  Thank you.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: Councilman Santiago?  


>> DAVID SANTIAGO: Thank you, Mr. chair.  Can we get Brad to come up?  There's something have been contemplating through this entire meeting today.  To share with you all to see if there is any thought process on this.  Brad, how do you know or do you know how many organizations we have in Volusia County that had -- help people with food?  
>>  We have two large ones that we coordinate with.  They also correlate with individuals.  That would be the large ones second harvest and farm share.  


>> DAVID SANTIAGO: They work with smaller organizations?  The reason I ask Brad about this obviously what is happening on the national scale right now with the snap benefits.  If this lockdown am sorry government shut down, we are going to have a problem in our community and across the nation.  We have 71,000 people in Volusia County that depends on snap benefits.  That is huge.  I would've never guessed that number.  We talk about essential and these are poor families that are struggling.  To my arts people out there, it doesn't look like you're going to get what you came here for today.  I was wondering my colleagues if we would support the concept for staff to prepare something for us to make a final decision at the next council meeting because I believe I just read that the government funded half a months worth of snap and fits.  I think the president just did that.  I wondered if they can prepare something for us to consider partnering with two organizations to come up with a plan specific to this and whether or not we can redirect the $611,000 to help our Volusia residence with food?  It is a real problem.  I have met people that are struggling with it.  That is food.  What I am going to ask for if there is consensus to create something for us to decide at the next meeting if the government just funded it this is a non-issue.  In two weeks if we are still in the same position, it is probably a drop in the bucket.  It is something to keep people fed for a little bit longer to help partner with some of the food banks that are already stressed.  Feeding people is a big priority for me.  I'm not asking for us to allocate 100% right now.  If there is support to give us a plan to execute with the $611,000 that we currently have sitting out there still unallocated.  
>>  You said there were two that the county works with?  Do we have a list?  There has been activity on social media where there's a lot of places rounding up the sort of stuff.  
>>  We have the list.  We have one scheduled food distribution for Thursday, November 6.  We did one of these a couple of weeks ago as well.  A cost us about $125,000 and I was federal grant money to stop all the pantries in the area and get the shelves stocked.  125,000 to do large-scale food distribution events.  We helped nearly 500 families.  We would not need the entire amount but we can certainly do some good if the Council gives us the direction.  
>>  The 450,000 for the emergency funds where people could make ends but I am being serious.  Can any of those be used as emergency funds for this?  
>>  ,The Council can direct us.  General fund dollars to use for this.  


>> DAVID SANTIAGO: It is all general fund so it is the same thing.  It is the same bucket.  
>>  Do you or Carmen know whatever the government open up with this money be reimbursed to the federal government?  
>>  I do not see it being reimbursed.  They will get their money eventually.  
>>  It would not get reimbursed.  


>> DAVID SANTIAGO: The reason I bring it up because it is the government is paying half.  It would put us in a position to execute on something.  We have unallocated funds and we do not have to use it all.  Give staff directions and give two weeks to come up with a plan.  A plan where all of the money goes wherever it allocates goes to the people.  None of the 20% or 25% of keeping.  All of it to food.  Just to come up with a plan and we decided two weeks.  I moved to direct staff to come up with a plan for the 18th meeting.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: A second by Troy Kent?  


>> TROY KENT: We are going to have two weeks to marinate and have staff come up with a plan.  By then it could be over.  
>>  If it opens between now and then then we will stop that effort.  Thank you.  
>>  There are 97 pantries in the county that we help stop.  -- Stock.  


>> DON DEMPSEY: [INDISCERNIBLE] The Sheriff's office in collaboration with the Jewish Federation, Walmart and other donors they have assisted in 36,000 households.  If we can put that in the calculations of what is being sent to help these people.  


>> DAVID SANTIAGO: It needs to be done responsibility -- responsibly.  
>>  That is all I have.  Thanks.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: Thank you.  I will go last.  You can't read my mind.  I went to the LI D conference instead of going to the legislative delegation meeting.  I appreciate our capable vice chair of going.  I chose to go to that because I also serve on the Indian river Lagoon Council.  This conference was unusual.  It was all about low impact development and how it affects the Indian River Lagoon and all of our bodies of water.  It was a very good conference.  One of the reasons it was so good is because it was open by Samantha West.  I did not know she was that good of a public speaker.  She was very at ease.  What she talked about was the lid program that we had here.  She became the hit of the conference for the next two days.  Some of staff has probably received the request for the lid manual that was created by staff.  Honestly you made me proud to be there and see the respect that she earned.  She made the conference really worthwhile and change direction for the next one.  So thank you County manager for sending her.  She really hit a homerun and did a good job for us.  That is really all I have.  I wanted to say one thing because when you said about private property when the owner has something to do with it.  I know it surprise you but I believe that in here is why.  Where we live, it took me six months to deal with a property owner.  He may have been a renter that was building pools and burning the lungs out of people lived around him.  He was irresponsible.  I think that is why we need some zoning regulations.  We have another one on Arthur Road.  It is a private property and they have renters and they are using the home-based business but he is abusing it.  It is a traffic nightmare, staff know whose -- who I am talking about.  They have been refused entrance.  The reason I say you can't just leave it up to the property owner, they are not responsible and they do not care about the life, health and safety of their neighbors.  
>>  That is why we have the court system.  You could've gone and got a relief against your neighbor.  I don't know what a government is seeing it as the fix all cure all of every single problem that comes up in people lives.  That is why we have a court system.  I'm glad the Miller Lake people are going to court.  They are seeking remedies through the judicial system.  Which is in my opinion the way our forefathers set up our government.  If your neighbor does something to affect your property rights you take them to court and you sue them.  There's a lot of records but everybody thinks we are the cure all of every single problem in people lives.  I do not agree with that.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: In this case we did have zoning regulations.  What they were doing was illegal.  So you go to the county who set the zoning regulations.  My wife's lungs were burned bad and we live a mile away.  We drive back and forth and everybody doesn't have money to hire a lawyer and go to court when it is something that should have been settled when he did not follow the law.  
>>  You call the executive branch or the Sheriff's office of Weber.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: Can we do that when they refuse entry to the property?  
>>  It depends.  If it is a County code, we have code enforcement.  If it is state law that can be criminal violation area it would not be us.  It depends on what the issue is.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: I needed to get an attorney when my wife's lungs were burning?  That was my only recourse.  We didn't.  
>>  I believe it was a code enforcement issue.  There was something that the county did.  There can be other legal issues associated with a violation.  It goes beyond the county code.  That would not involve us.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: Your point is well taken, thank you.  I just wanted you to know why.  
>>  I did was smoke in my neighborhood all the time.  


>> CHAIR BROWER: Is it mine because we have a lot of bonfires.  With that it is 3:51 PM, we are adjourned.